Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Sando]

Here's Mathblades progression on the precog stuff:

Do you think there is any scenario that is not accounted in those 4?

One thing that occurred to me about our assumptions about the negation, there's no guarantee that Math/Titus have precog if they're scum. If we somehow conclude that scum have negate, they're not ruled out, they could be being fed precog info by other members of the scumteam.

So who exactly is Titus supposed to conspire with?

Second of all fake claiming is stupid if you’re scum. Like I don’t know if a “powers cop” is gonna come up. I mean if scum wanna be stupid let them. As for me I have Precog 100%

If anyone has a lie detector come up they can check if

I gotta drive home but let’s not go down the rabbit hole of paranoia.

This is directed at me, it's the very next post after me, check post numbers.

So who exactly is Titus supposed to conspire with?

You for one...

This isn't conspiracy, I'm not using this to say either of you are scum, or suggesting we go down any rabbit hole. I'm just pointing out that you and Titus aren't necessarily cleared of negation as a power. Oh the humanity, I know.

*le sigh*

I am pretty sure Titus/Sando/stun isn’t a thing but my gut is screaming it is

So I left it at that, but now:

She likely used me to confirm she took precog but had a hidden buddy whisper the powers in a scum PT and then knowing me knew I would take it and then had me “confirm” she did while she actually had negate

Oh, and:

so

I believe titus picked precog because she'd otherwise

risk outing herself if anyone decided to use mimickry on her

.

I believe drixx is always town and was not secretly chosen by titus on n2 because drixx would either use his n2 power (like power negate for instance), or pick something that can be remotely useful as scum instead of impenetrable skin.

wrt ank, if she did get a power and was still killed that night, and titus tried to play the long run, that might mean one of two things: either all the other wolves are highly POE'd down and titus was the only one who could go deep, meaning she'd sacrifice her team, give them nothing, townside the whole game and hopefully snatch a win; or her original list actually has scum in it and there's scum deeply infiltrated in towncore. I'm leaning towards the former because there's no sign that scum actually used any night powers other than the kill, and they seem to be happy keeping me alive with mimickry.

If she got obvTowned it wouldn’t matter.

Secondly it’s hardly a risk. Titus was scummy as fuck there is no way a cop or a mimic checks someone they think scummy. They check the null reads. The townblock only gets checked in cases of extreme paranoia.

Thirdly I agree with that if she did take precog and was honest it’s sll PoE burn.

So from "fakeclaiming is stupid" to "it's hardly a risk".

[Sando]

I wanna be voted leader.

Thoughts on my 9901

[Sando]

A pile of the people in that town pool have BP. Then there's at least me with doc and self BP in play as well. How are they going to exclusively shoot at the town block again?

Why not set up a Vig-situation here with Drixx? For arguments sake we:

(replace "Sando" with "very TRd person who doesn't have other things to do with their powers")
1) Give Sando Bomb N5
2) Drixx Doc's Sando N5 (it's a night only action I think?)
3) Sando bombs X on D6, we don't pre-announce this (bomb is anytime action correct?)
4) Echo shouldn't be able to happen since they have to submit it overnight and they don't know the target (echo is night only correct?)
5) If there was no kill N5 then decent chance Sando was target and we can decide whether to go through with plan or not

This minimises the risks while giving us a day-vig,

I think

.

[Sando]

that's a smart plan, but there is the risk of echo. scum can echo you at night and dayvig town the next day whenever you trigger. remember echo is night only, but so is the bomb. the bomb can be "triggered" by day, but it's "activated" as a night action. so yeah I think the mechanics are fair, except scum does get to echo.

Wait explain this to me.

So say I've got bomb, I've gotta "target" it overnight, but it won't go off until I press the trigger, which I can do anytime?

So for this to be town-motivated we'd need to decide my target before tonight, thus they can echo it?

Have we decided if Sakura is pre-announcing the team? I'll state my bomb intentions if not and scum can have fun decided to echo or not.

[Sando]

And what happens if scum power echo the doc'd suicide bomber?

How about I offer to bomb duckling if given power, and Sakura doesn't confirm/deny whether I'm getting one?

If scum want to power-echo me they can risk it going on a Vanilla and wasting it, and if Drixx has nothing better to do with his powers he can doc me.

[Sando]

Im basically scared that SOMETHING will go wrong. And it will cause us to lose.

Which is reasonable, hence we should be reducing the variables (number of bombs).

[Sando]

And what happens if scum power echo the doc'd suicide bomber?

How about I offer to bomb duckling if given power, and Sakura doesn't confirm/deny whether I'm getting one?

If scum want to power-echo me they can risk it going on a Vanilla and wasting it, and

if Drixx has nothing better to do with his powers he can doc me

.

Wtf???

Drixx only has one Doc and he 100% needs to use it on Nero/UFO . However, UFO has 1-shot bp, so the optimal useage of his Doc power should be used on Nero

, as Sakura has already convincingly argued.

Why would you even suggest such a thing? OMG!

I also not all confident the worst flips scum, anyway. I think you’re stuck in tunnel vision when it comes to him.

What the fuck is this stupidity?

a) The plan is about pushing scum's potential power echo ability around, not primarily about getting a vig.
b) I said IF DRIXX HAS NOTHING BETTER TO DO...like what the actual fuck is hard to understand about that?
c) We've been dealing with killable leader options for 5 days, I spent half of D4 arguing with Math about needing to protect ourselves from our top candidate getting killed.

If you can't understand from what I'm saying that I'm trying to set up some confusion in the scumranks rather than garner power...your powers of deduction are seriously questionable.

[Sando]

Dumb question: If we are doing the suicide vig plan why are we talking new leaders at all?
Why not have it shuffle between Sakura and FA’s replacement?

why are you prefacing by saying the question is dumb?

sakura can't be leader twice in a row

Pretty sure he's suggesting "weaving" it between the two, so Sakura bombs tonight while leader-safe, we get new-FA protection and leader tonight and then new-FA bombs tomorrow night with leader-safe.

Ends up with one bomb per day between two players.

[Sando]

I don't think titus says sando is "possibly bussing" her when they're actually w/w

it's a scumslip but one she'd probably be smart enough to avoid when they're wolfing together

You want me and Titus to push each other for 3 days, hard. You want Titus to scumslip the "possible bussing", that get MISSED for like 50 pages, and then the person you're accusing of being wolf with her to be the person to bring it up?

Like...urgh.

[Sando]

you understand I'm clearing you for this, right?

You're not treating those suggesting I'm not clear with enough disdain for my liking

[Sando]

@sakura you should do this, yes?

Sakura suggested using something else, I can't remember what it was, but it wasn't bomb.

Only issue with plan is I think echo targets the bomber, not the bombee? So Scum can fairly easily echo if they have the power. Narrows down our pool though at least.

[Sando]

You were trying to suggest Drixx Doc you, over UFO/Nero! And you’re calling what I’m saying stupid?

What I actually said:

if Drixx has nothing better to do

with his powers he can doc me.

Note the bold part...I very specifically DID NOT say OVER anything, I said the EXACT opposite.

Yes, I'd like to maintain my statement, thanks.

[Sando]

I see a couple of troubling things mainly it doesn’t account for scumfuckery like power negate.

Negate has the same effect in the echo'd doc as non-echo'd doc. We can safely ignore the option in terms of leader protection given it's the same result no matter whether we echo it or not.

It should, however, give pause to the idea of using bomb without leader protection, as I think Tora might be suggesting?

[Sando]

bp can’t be echoed either, I think?

It cannot, it's not targeted so anything referencing "targeted" won't impact BP.

[Sando]

It’s mainly if Drixx gets negated then neither protection goes through if I understand it correct. Echo wouldn’t fire as there would be no power to hit.

Also if Drixx is scum (again low chance) Nancy could end up copying mod knows what factional ability into those two.

Yeah exactly, but we're apparently suggesting two people without BP? So Drixx protecting one and getting negated = no protection, and Drixx protecting both with echo+doc and getting negated = no protection. Same result is my point.

You do make a good point about Drixx-scum doubling up a power on them. It's only powers though yeah? Petrification seems like the only dangerous one to get doubled up, maybe freezing but meh.

[Sando]

I see a couple of troubling things mainly it doesn’t account for scumfuckery like power negate.

Negate has the same effect in the echo'd doc as non-echo'd doc. We can safely ignore the option in terms of leader protection given it's the same result no matter

whether we echo it or not.

It should, however, give pause to the idea of using bomb without leader protection, as I think Tora might be suggesting?

Did you miss the part, where he said that Drixx protects him and Sakura echoes Doc on Nero?

No...

[Sando]

see if this works, guys:

today: we vote ausuka for leader with one of me or nero cain as the backup

sakura submits me, nero, nancy, ausuka +1 for powers

tonight: ausuka uses phasing on a SR and takes suicide bombing

sakura takes and uses suicide bombing on a SR

drixx docs nero

nero takes suicide bombing

I take suicide bombing

nancy takes power echo and targets drixx to have his doc also protect me

tomorrow: me and nero use suicide bombing on SR targets

ausuka has suicide bombing as well and can also use on a SR target if she is leader

this gives us 4 kills with none of the townread players having to die for it

thoughts?

I'm with you up to the bold, since we have no real way of checking that Drixx successfully doc's one/both of you. Leader can do it safely, but do we have a "check" to see if the doc went off somehow?

[Sando]

It’s mainly if Drixx gets negated then neither protection goes through if I understand it correct. Echo wouldn’t fire as there would be no power to hit.

Also if Drixx is scum (again low chance) Nancy could end up copying mod knows what factional ability into those two.

Yeah exactly, but we're apparently suggesting two people without BP?

So Drixx protecting one and getting negated = no protection

, and Drixx protecting both with echo+doc and getting negated = no protection. Same result is my point.

You do make a good point about Drixx-scum doubling up a power on them. It's only powers though yeah? Petrification seems like the only dangerous one to get doubled up, maybe freezing but meh.

You do realize that if scum has power negate they can still pierce through the protection regardless? Power negate does prevent powers from being used on your target too you know.
The only ppl that have so far claimed to have a protection AND SS are me and ausuka (as per FA) as far as im aware.

Yes...

[Sando]

I'm with you up to the bold, since we have no real way of checking that Drixx successfully doc's one/both of you. Leader can do it safely, but do we have a "check" to see if the doc went off somehow?

I can use mimickry on drixx actually, so yes

Awww yiss.

[Sando]

Maybe you and Math then or maybe just Math?

I'd rather not be powered tbh.

[Sando]

Sorry been AFK this weekend, been a lot busier than I expected.

I've reread the last 5 pages, I see I'm back being suggested as a 6th? I'd rather just be the backup for if/when we run out of people we trust to give powers, but if that's now, ok?

What am I doing? Last I saw I'm echo-ing Drixx onto Drixx?

[Sando]

I see I'm back being suggested as a 6th?

???
I dont think I saw that.

What I'm going from:

we dont need drixx to take any powers. I'm fine with creature having it but it might be a controversial slot to give powers to.

I'm comfortable with sando.

anyone can be the 6th anyway, as long as they do what we tell them to

I think Math suggested it somewhere else too.

[Sando]

I'll send the sui off tomorrow depending on the gamestate ofc

wolf lynch + wolf killed at night, I'm 100% taking someone off the POE tomorrow

if it's too risky I might not

So, Sando or whomever can echo doc you at night and as long nothing happens to them, you would still be protected during the day but avoid scum using echo on you?

That's how the plan was explained to me.

Any particular way to submit it? I target Drixx's powers onto Tor?

[Sando]

VOTE: the worst

There ya go, hammered

[Sando]

Who posted the vote list for leader?

[Sando]

You can take one super power and use another one, you already own, SS can be used together with another superpower

Nero: Ausuka, Sakura, Tora, Nancy
Ausuka: Nero, Creature, Drixx, Gamma, hebichan, Kokichi, Math, Nosferatu, Sando, Theta, TW. (Just remove whoever gets lynched)

I kind of want Nero to be main, because that might remove attention towards trying to kill Tora.

Found it.

[Sando]

You can take one super power and use another one, you already own, SS can be used together with another superpower

Nero: Ausuka, Sakura, Tora, Nancy
Ausuka: Nero, Creature, Drixx, Gamma, hebichan, Kokichi, Math, Nosferatu, Sando, Theta, TW. (Just remove whoever gets lynched)

I kind of want Nero to be main, because that might remove attention towards trying to kill Tora.

Found it.

Isn’t Ausuka the main and Nero, the backup?

Yeah that's what that list does, only 4 votes on Nero.

[Sando]

What was dinner, nancy?

Lobster ravioli. I’m a huge seafood lover.

Whoa, murdering an immortal just for your ravioli?!?!

[Sando]

[line][/line]

What was dinner, nancy?

Lobster ravioli. I’m a huge seafood lover.

Whoa, murdering an immortal just for your ravioli?!?!

Huh?

Lobsters are basically immortal from what we can tell, they won't die from old-age.

[Sando]

So Math can bomb safely.

2 scum left, they can petrify someone else, but if they want to bomb they have to protect that person. So they can kill 3 max, assuming they can power+kill.

That leaves us 6/3 worst case?

[Sando]

Uhhhhhhh I think Sando is actually town bee tee dubz

If anyone still thinks I'm scum after going hard at Titus and calling out the Math+Titus precog bullshit days ago...

[Sando]

whoever is a wolf will kill someone tonight. that's how bad this is. we don't lynch wolf, it's pretty over

No Lynch.

[Sando]

whoever is a wolf will kill someone tonight. that's how bad this is. we don't lynch wolf, it's pretty over

No Lynch.

we need to

look we can't kill any scum with anything. I don't have sui. whoever has sui will just get PN'ed. we can't take this to night and expect to work. scum was leader d2, d3, and today lel. no night actions will work against them.

What was Math's claimed N5?

Also who did Sakura pick for 6th? It wasn't me.

[Sando]

btw that leaving 4 players to vote for nero cain was a very stupid idea. I suck that I didn't think of THIS BULLSHIT NOW. dasdhq38ddh38a49hd

Either all 3 are in the Aus list or you/Nancy are scum. You and Nancy got a vote, leaving 2 possible on Nero, and Nero didn't vote for the mislynch so Nero would beat Mathblade in a 2-2 situation.

[Sando]

she is petrified, she can't talk

Sakura said it was obvious.

[Sando]

also sakura is always town cause they wouldn't even bother petrifying scum for distancing

If the game is still up tomorrow then we'll see the number of abilities used and will be conf-towned anyway is my guess.

Fuck, good point, Nancy wolf.

[Sando]

how the fuck was he elected unless nancy is wolf?

Ok so Nancy can bomb.

Out-there-thought: Do we leave Lynch to last minute? If Nancy bombs we get a dead scummer and a no-lynch. If we lynch, cool one scummer down.

[Sando]

Nero: Ausuka, Sakura, Tora, Nancy
Ausuka: Nero, Creature, Drixx, Gamma, hebichan, Kokichi, Math, Nosferatu, Sando, Theta, TW. (Just remove whoever gets lynched)

Tora/Nancy only votes that counted, so that's 2 on Nero.

Nero didn't vote for Hebi, so he'd win a playoff against Math, so the vote wasn't 2-2. Math can't vote himself, so he got a max of 2 votes from town.

Tora/Nancy didn't vote Nero.

[Sando]

sakura was petrified so her vote didn't count btw

Also literally impossible for Sakura to be scum that means.

[Sando]

ausuka's vote still counts

Then you and Nancy both have to be scum?

Math can only possibly get 2 votes on him.

[Sando]

the only way ausuka's vote don't count is if wolves killed ausuka ON TOP of using petrification on her. power negate does not prevent ausuka from voting.

Ok that would work.

So scum used Negate+Petrify+Echo?

[Sando]

How do you know you were negated btw?

[Sando]

How do you know you were negated btw?

no I'm confused

I didn't get suicide bombing for some reason. I don't understand why now. PN doesn't say anything about acquiring abilities if my comprehension is correct. that + the voting, it's like I was petrified.

Wait you were part of the team, asked for suicide bomb, and didn't get it?

[Sando]

Ok so Nero is our best leader candidate for tonight, there's no point for this Math BS if they're just gonna get the scumleader anyway. He also has heal so if he lives through tonight and gets leader, conftown Sakura is back.

We can also elect Sakura if we want, just assume they'll act in towns interest and take someone's (mine? Tors?) list to heart.

We can also slow this right down, we should assume we'll lynch scum today (since a mislynch is loss).

Wait...gotta check with mod.

[Sando]

Checking with mod if we're in Mylo, since we can lynch Math if so.

Also can we bomb down to Mylo possibly?

[Sando]

11 in play 3 scum.

1 mislynch = 10/3
1 NK = 9/3
1 Petrify = 8/3
2 - Echos = 6/3

Looks like Mylo, we can lynch Math? I've sent question to mod on if we're in mylo, and also if he'll accept us blowing our way down to mylo if we need one more.

I'm assuming that means we can lynch Math, just says leader can't die unless mylo/lylo, nothing directly related to lynches.

[Sando]

yeah alright

I want out of this game anyway

if I was docced I was docced

gl town

if this works and me and theta die, lynch nancy

If you haven't submitted, can you wait till after the mylo stuff is sorted out?

[Sando]

ughhh in Tora's memory I feel we should just lynch Theta Nancy and Math and win but ye it works

Why on earth would we leave the leader up if we can avoid it?

[Sando]

ughhh in Tora's memory I feel we should just lynch Theta Nancy and Math and win but ye it works

If Tora his scum!Theta here I don't see how we possibly lose. It confirms Nancy+Math as scum.

I think we want Tora to bomb Theta either way today, but I'd like to work out the mylo bit first.

[Sando]

OH KILL HIM NOW OK I LIKE IT

Yeah if I'm right then Math fucked up and put us into Mylo, so he's killable NOW.

[Sando]

7. The presiding Leader cannot die except in LYLO/MYLO or if a no lynch is achieved.

Dis is what I'm going off.

[Sando]

Please don't QL Math if it's confirmed btw, there's still stuff to sort out today and unless Tora hits Theta the game is still afoot.

[Sando]

if me and theta are both dead town, it's mylo right?

Don't think it's Mylo if theta is dead-scum?

9 up and about, 2 scum.
Mislynch
Kill
Petrifyx2
5 with 2, not Mylo.

How that would work with something like bomb+doc from scum tomorrow Day I have no idea.

But if you kill Theta scum we know it's Math+Nancy and win anyway. Lynch Nancy, Math can't get leader again and we lynch him tomorrow.

[Sando]

I asked to hold off on that sui for now

I'm ISOing theta. it's awfully scumsplaining ISO apart from a few kinda towny moments.

does anyone know how to parse zmuffin out and what was the verdict on him?

If it goes through it's not the end of the world, and I think we want you using it today anyway.

I'm off to bed, if you're dead when I wake up, it's been fun.

I've got a crazy morning as well, and potentially crazy afternoon, so I might not be on for a while.

Don't lynch Math or Nancy yet. Still need to decide who to leader tomorrow.

I think we may as well get everyone to claim powers? Discuss this if you're bored.

[Sando]

Promise last post before I sleep, I'm actually posting this from bed.

Tora should not bomb Nancy, it's a waste, bomb someone else and the townflip confscums Nancy.

[Sando]

ughhh in Tora's memory I feel we should just lynch Theta Nancy and Math and win but ye it works

If Tora his scum!Theta here I don't see how we possibly lose. It confirms Nancy+Math as scum.

I think we want Tora to bomb Theta either way today, but I'd like to work out the mylo bit first.

No, it fucking doesn’t. Please explain why I begged the person who was NK - whom I fucking used HT on - to use bp that night? Oh and yeah, let’s just allow the 2 hidden scum to kill every night with 0 accountability. If town is seriously this brain dead, then scum deserves to win this. What’s really depressing. is we don’t have to let this happen but no one wants to listen to me, so we’re clearly fucked. Good work, guys. \o/

Except obviously Nero, who seems to be seeing things clearly. At least if I get stupidly mislynched, hopefully he might be able to hopefully turn things around?

I know that UFO and Sando seem to be content to allow the 2 hidden scum to coast. lol

You/Tora confscum due to Mathblade being leader over Nero. If votes go through petri I don't see how you're not both scum.

[Sando]

I haven't gotten a response from the mod about Mylo btw.

[Sando]

We're not in Mylo, it's town+1, math isn't today's lynch.

So the math for no-lynch assuming Tor blows up Math succesfully, we go into tonight with 8(+1)/3.

Kill - 7(+1)/3
Bomb - 6(+1)/2
Petrify - 5(+2)/2
Echo Petrify - 4 (+3)/2

Lynch scum tomorrow:
4 (+3)/1
Kill - 3 (+3) / 1
Petrify - 2 (+3) / 1

[Sando]

Ok it's actually Town = Scum+2 for Mylo.

[Sando]

I voted Ausaka last night, not Nero. Wasn’t I supposed to do that?

because she was supposed to dayvig safely and Nero was supposed to be the backup?

Nope, you were supposed to vote Nero, it was pretty clear.

Can you please stop being an ass while we're at it, you're either scum or don't understand the gamestate, either way you shouldn't be being an ass towards people.

[Sando]

Math doesn't win a 3v3 tie against Nero because of the tie rules.

So let's assume that Petrify removes your vote. That leaves {Gamma, Tora}.

Math still can't be scum because Math needs THREE votes to get elected due to losing ties against Nero.

Petrify does not stop the vote, I just confirmed with mod.

So we have 3 "claimed" votes for Nero in Gamma, Tora and

Sakura

(we just kinda have to assume town aren't stupid and will follow the plan at this point).

Scum voting for town can't even beat that, so there absolutely MUST be a liar in those 3.

[Sando]

So there's 1-2 scum confirmed in:

Gamma/Tor/Sakura

If Math is scum it's 2 confirmed, if Math is town it's 1 confirmed.

Mathscum can only get 2 scumvotes on him, meaning only one person can have voted Nero.
Mathtown can get 3 scumvotes on him, meaning 2 people can have voted Nero.

So I think this says that mathmatically, Math can't be scum with Nancy.

If it's Nancy+Math+Tor for example, that's still only 2 votes on Math, and Gamma/Sakura voting Nero would win it for Nero.

[Sando]

Petrify does not stop the vote, I just confirmed with mod.

Death doesn't either.

Wait so in Ank+Sak+Gamma+Tor, Math somehow got more votes?

Impossible for there not to be 2 liars in this list and it not be town-Math in that case.

[Sando]

You can take one super power and use another one, you already own, SS can be used together with another superpower

Nero: Ausuka, Sakura, Tora, Nancy
Ausuka: Nero, Creature, Drixx, Gamma, hebichan, Kokichi, Math, Nosferatu, Sando, Theta, TW. (Just remove whoever gets lynched)

I kind of want Nero to be main, because that might remove attention towards trying to kill Tora.

Found it.

No Nancy, here's the list, I and others quoted it towards EOD specifically for this reason. You're either scum or you gamethrew.

[Sando]

See above. Sanity check the logic please.

Is this Sanity checked enough? I think we're coming to a conclusion here?

Petrify does not stop the vote, I just confirmed with mod.

Death doesn't either.

Wait so in Ank+Sak+Gamma+Tor, Math somehow got more votes?

Impossible for there not to be 2 liars in this list and it not be town-Math in that case.

[Sando]

Ok I just annoyed the crap out of the mod I'm pretty sure with a barrage of questions but yes, both Aus and Sakura could have voted last night for Nero and that vote would have counted, totes totes confirmed.

So 4 "claimed" votes for Nero, I think we have to assume Aus/Sak didn't gamethrow:
Gamma
Tor
Sak
Aus

These are A's.

2 scum + 1A on townMath results in Nero-leader
1 scum + 2A on townMath results in Math-leader
2A on scumMath results in Nero-leader

As far as I can tell, there's no way for us not to have 2-3 scum in the A's and a town-Math. The only way would be some scum-mechanic to change the leadervote around, which would seem bastardy.

[Sando]

scum used power echo on a power negate ofc

so both me and ausuka were negated and then ausuka died

Oh look ... Tora is claiming to have been negated here. For whomever asked.

He retracted that afaik and claimed misread of PMs.

[Sando]

Thank you for confirming what I said hours ago. Did the way I said it not make sense to you?

So did I, I quoted it back to you a while ago. The mod subsequently sent me a PM that seemed to contradict this so I went deepdiving with the mod on that and then re-confirmed in thread.

[Sando]

Okidokes so we have 2 confscum in:

Ausuka

(including for completeness sake, piss off with your comments, I even colour coded it for you)
Sakura
Gamma
Tora

We also have a 3rd scum either in the above or outside.

We have one conf!town in Math who is also leader.

Tora has claimed to have suicide bomb, so get Tora to bomb Sakura/Gamma? Can't fail to hit scum with it. Refusal to bomb should be seen as a scumclaim.

[Sando]

No, you’re wrong and I think you’re wrong about Math too. Why don’t you even care about that list? Do you have an explanation for it? I said, I would do the heal, if the majority wants me too and that isn’t you. I’m not lying about my vote or any of the other ones I made.

I’m not fucking stalling, so quit it with bullshit shading already.

You can heal D6 and D7, or you can heal N6 and D7.

Note the difference? Either way, you get to heal D7, so the idea that healing now stops you from healing tomorrow is wrong.

[Sando]

Okidokes so we have 2 confscum in:

Ausuka

(including for completeness sake, piss off with your comments, I even colour coded it for you)
Sakura
Gamma
Tora

We also have a 3rd scum either in the above or outside.

We have one conf!town in Math who is also leader.

Tora has claimed to have suicide bomb, so get Tora to bomb Sakura/Gamma? Can't fail to hit scum with it. Refusal to bomb should be seen as a scumclaim.

Where did you get this list from and why is Nancy not in it?

Because Nancy has outright stated that she voted Aus, and Gamma has outright stated he voted Nero.

The rest of the list has been posted multiple times.

[Sando]

Pedit: Assume Gamma Or Nancy is scum. What makes them required to tell the truth?

Nothing...that's literally my point, that scum are clearly lying about who they voted, and 2 of them are in Gamma/Sakura/Tor.

[Sando]

If all I cared about was clearing myself, I would have already done it but what happens tomorrow night if there are 1 - possibly 2 petrifies and I have used up my power useage until D7. What happens then?

Nancy, like 5 people, including myself here:

You can heal D6 and D7, or you can heal N6 and D7.

Note the difference? Either way, you get to heal D7, so the idea that healing now stops you from healing tomorrow is wrong.

Have said that you're wrong and that "saving" your heal accomplishes literally nothing. We have 1 petrified person until D7, which in your own words is the next time you can heal. So why on earth would you not want to use it on that ONE PERSON now?

[Sando]

Pedit: Assume Gamma Or Nancy is scum. What makes them required to tell the truth?

Nothing...that's literally my point, that scum are clearly lying about who they voted, and 2 of them are in Gamma/Sakura/Tor.

Then come vote Tor with me.

Why not get Tor to blow himself up within the 3? Or get him to refuse and thus conf!scum himself?

What does lynching accomplish better?

[Sando]

Yeah Tor+Nancy+Sakura seems pretty good for scumlist right about now.

[Sando]

So we have to lynch the scum most likely to have petrification and imho that is Toranaga. He likely isn’t going to blow himself up. My suspicion is he can’t and if the two Tor is the threat. Because when scum made me leader they probably didn’t count on Tor having to call his bluff.

I mean if he outright refuses then sure, let's lynch Tor. But there's literally no cost to town at least asking.

I think it's not Gamma, since the claim of voting Nero really fucks with you being leader for scum. It's that claim that conf!towns you.

So we get Tor to blow up Sakura. That will only happen if Tor is town, or Sakura is town and Tor has protection as scum. They can't protect both, and he can't claim negation.

So if he doesn't do it, we lynch him and move on.

[Sando]

Lynching Tor today likely stops the petrifications.

Picks from town FA on N3 when petrification was an option: FA Mathblade Sakura Shiro drixx nancy

We can assume townFA didn't lie about this list.

Also note that's the same night Nancy should have picked up heal.

[Sando]

So we get Tor to blow up Sakura.

Isn't she like petrified?

Yep.

[Sando]

Yeah Tor+Nancy+Sakura seems pretty good for scumlist right about now.

Why does scum petrify Sakura if she’s scum? Please explain how this makes any sense at all?

But I - the only one who is making this argument, based on 100% common sense - is in your POE.

Why do you ignore me every time I post about why you should heal right now?

[Sando]

Could everyone who got powers last night please confirm.

[Sando]

Nancy ignoring all the comments about why healing right now is fine/good is pretty funny TBH

[Sando]

So theory is:

Scum messed with precog'd abilities to implicate Math
Scum voted town!Math in given town would think Math lied about the abilities
Scum plan to WTFpwn town with petrifies all over the place tonight
Scum plan to mislynch Math tomorrow and then finish the WTFpwning tomorrow night

How did we conclude scum can mess with abilities?

[Sando]

I said the MAJORITY. If the majority wants me to do that and not be able to heal anymore petrified players until D7, it won’t be on my head.

Who else are you planning on healing before D7? That's tomorrow and there's only 1 petrified person right now...

[Sando]

But I would really love to know who Sakura picked as the 5th. I know she picked me, UFO, Nero. Ausaka and someone else.

Ok so the people that can possibly Petrify are:

FA Mathblade Sakura Shiro drixx nancy

FA - Obv not
Math - Conf!town now
Sakura - Petrifies self?
Shiro - Obv not
Nancy -
UFO(this is Tora? Why do people keep using a different name?) -
Nero -
Aus - Obv not

So we're left with Nancy, Tora and Nero who could petrify, plus some random 5th, that would have to have been picked by Sakura and then turned around and Petrified her?

Nancy/Tora/Nero - gee, considering Nero basically can't be scum here due to leadership shenanigans, that lines up pretty damn nicely with what I said.

[Sando]

How do you know scum doesn’t have echo? Is so, there could be 2.

Because it gets announced in game...

There could be 2 tomorrow, you don't get to save it up, you still only have 1 heal tomorrow.

Good lord, this is like arguing with Titus D3.

[Sando]

I said the MAJORITY. If the majority wants me to do that and not be able to heal anymore petrified players until D7, it won’t be on my head.

Who else are you planning on healing before D7? That's tomorrow and there's only 1 petrified person right now...

If you’re wrong about UFO, there could be more and if I heal, I also cannot use my bp. If Math is scum, then scum could get redirector, so I would need double doc, to be safe and be able to use my heal both days if necessary.

So you're saying DON'T heal the person petrified so that you can BP, leaving that person petrified, so that you can potentially heal someone else tomorrow?

You're either healing today or getting lynched, it's fairly simple. But then I doubt you actually took heal so...

[Sando]

You’re forgetting that I picked an actual power that helps town, which is good, since I am the only one left who still has it.

I DGAF about that, I actually want to help town win.

Prove it.

[Sando]

Yeah so Tora just blew up Theta to stop us blowing up in the confscum group.

So Tora is confscum and can't use abilities tonight.

Nancy is probable scum, we need healing out right now or we lynch today. Tora can stay alive till tomorrow since he's used his ability.

[Sando]

So Toranaga just blew up someone outside of the PoE. I guess that's our lynch today.

Let's slow this down.

Tora can't use an ability tonight.

[Sando]

you're all horrible

except for whoever is scum other than mathblade

I didn't see you even engaging with the logic that clears Math. I'll wait.

While we wait, plan is:

We get Nancy to heal Sakura right now. Refusal = doesn't have heal. That makes Nancy basically guaranteed petrify.

How'd the doc get onto Tor btw?

[Sando]

It was already claimed earlier. Someone echoed me onto him.

Yeah I know, but who? I think Nancy claimed it? Which would mean Nancy didn't petrify, or Scum3 echo'd while Nancy petrified.

[Sando]

It was already claimed earlier. Someone echoed me onto him.

Yeah I know, but who? I think Nancy claimed it? Which would mean Nancy didn't petrify, or Scum3 echo'd while Nancy petrified.

kokichi did it, that's why I'm not dead

MATHBLADE petrified. you know, the guy that fucking has petrify?

So you can still bomb?

You're definitely doing that today then.

[Sando]

I just did bomb, yes? I bombed theta if you didn't notice

I didn't bomb nancy cause I think she is protected and if she is not I want her to unpetrify sakura cause I think sakura is town

I did, I misread your "Kokichi did it" as bombing, not echoing.

[Sando]

it's horrible because you're suggesting that all scum voted for a town leader and outed themselves doing so drixx

you're absolutely appalling. the part of your brain that was supposed to go "hey wait a minute, that doesn't really make sense now does it?" doesn't function

scum would never pile onto a town vote and out themselves

The very fact that you are refusing to acknowledge the plain facts of the numbers because you don't believe scum would do something is why you don't belong namecalling anyone.

Interact with the logic. My first instinct when the day started was that Math was scum. At this point, the only way math can be scum is if:

1.) Town players literally game threw (would have to be you refusing to admit you didn't vote nero and/or some combination of Ausuka and Sakura going off plan).

2.) Scum have some hidden ability which allowed them to override the leader vote in some fashion.


You refuse to respond to the logic, so I'm going to assume you can find no problems with it. That means you are choosing to believe something we have no evidence for to justify a read you have flip/flopped on for quite awhile. That's irrational.

Tora also conveniently ignores that the only reason we revealed 2 scum is because Gamma claimed to vote Nero when he wasn't supposed to.

[Sando]

There's nothing to stop scum petrifying Sakura tonight anyway, other than negate which also stops heal. This whole line of discussion is just so fucking asinine.

[Sando]

There's nothing to stop scum petrifying

Sakura

tonight anyway, other than negate which also stops heal. This whole line of discussion is just so fucking asinine.

Edit: nothing to stop them petrifying NANCY*

[Sando]

I can totally see sando being scum here

he wanted me to blow theta up, now he is like "oh so tora is confscum"

JD0938JDA09DJHA09DJA

Rofl

[Sando]

Then vote Tor with me. If we lynch Tor Nancy then can’t heal Sakura.

Because Tor can't use a power tonight, since he just used bomb. Nancy almost definitely doesn't have heal and has petrify from N3 instead, so we're just left with what the 3rd scummer can do.

[Sando]

Theta was the person suggesting the powers got swapped, and they're conveniently dead now...

[Sando]

VOTE: Nancy

Also Tor/Nancy, you're both toxic AF.

[Sando]

@Drixx

Vote Tor with me please.

I have an idea of who should get powers and I don’t want to out that to scum.

Primary leader candidate is Drixx and backup is Sando.

If you kill Tor today you need 3+ candidates since more petrifications in play.

[Sando]

I also love how Tora's like: "No scum would out themselves with this vote town!Math bullshit" and also "Math would totally just out himself by lying about today's powers for no real reason".

[Sando]

@Drixx

Vote Tor with me please.

I have an idea of who should get powers and I don’t want to out that to scum.

Primary leader candidate is Drixx and backup is Sando.

If you kill Tor today you need 3+ candidates since more petrifications in play.

My petrification stops Nancy’s actions and Sakura is stone.

What petrification would I be worried about?

Look at the power. It stops actions.

Petrifcation will stop petrification coming from your target? You sure about that? Killing someone typically doesn't stop them killing.

I'm also only sure of Nancy+Tor, Sakura is only a probable.

[Sando]

Why is that so fucking unreasonable?

How on earth do you plan to deal with scum petrifying town!Nancy tonight?

[Sando]

@Drixx

Vote Tor with me please.

I have an idea of who should get powers and I don’t want to out that to scum.

Primary leader candidate is Drixx and backup is Sando.

If you kill Tor today you need 3+ candidates since more petrifications in play.

My petrification stops Nancy’s actions and Sakura is stone.

What petrification would I be worried about?

Look at the power. It stops actions.

Petrifcation will stop petrification coming from your target? You sure about that? Killing someone typically doesn't stop them killing.

I'm also only sure of Nancy+Tor, Sakura is only a probable.

If I use my SS mine can’t be blocked or modified. So Nancy couldn’t stop me. So she is taken care of 100%

Ummm...BP doesn't stop petrify, it's not a killing action.

Nancy petrifies Sando
Math petrifies Nancy

Both Sando and Nancy are petrified tomorrow.

[Sando]

I don’t want Tor helping Nancy through this night.

Ok

1) We're lynching EITHER Nancy or Tor, neither can help the other
2) Tor just bombed, he has NO POWER tonight. Nancy refuses to heal, she's trying to both preserve her power to use tonight and avoid the fact that she doesn't have heal.

Lynch Nancy today, Tor will blow himself up tomorrow, and we're left looking for another scum.

[Sando]

I don’t want Tor helping Nancy through this night.

Ok

1) We're lynching EITHER Nancy or Tor, neither can help the other
2) Tor just bombed, he has NO POWER tonight. Nancy refuses to heal, she's trying to both preserve her power to use tonight and avoid the fact that she doesn't have heal.

Lynch Nancy today, Tor will blow himself up tomorrow, and we're left looking for another scum.

Again that is not the right play here. Look please. Scum tried to frame me for a reason.

They don’t want me in control of petrify.

The right answer is I petrify Nancy so she can’t raise Sakura and we lynch Tor.

We don’t know what factionals scum have and Nancy not healing here screams possibly newb Town.
I would rather petrify Nancy and then use HT if it comes up and is needed.

Nancy can't raise Sakura if we lynch her...

Lynch Nancy, petrify Tor, job done.

[Sando]

dont petrify me

dont do it please, I need to flip

I'm town

I need to flip town so you can kill math

Lynch Tor petrify Nancy.

Problem solved

This literally lets scum Tor+Nancy use an extra power...WHY MATH WHY?!

[Sando]

This literally lets scum Tor+Nancy use an extra power...WHY MATH WHY?!

b/c Math is REALLY bad

Nah. Math is correct. Being petrified stops submission of actions. Petrify Nancy and lynch Tor is a viable way to go. That also probably leaves us in solid position if Gamma is scum who stepped in and claimed to have voted Nero in order to implicate others in the vote list {Sakura, Nancy, Tor}

Killing doesn't stop killing under NAR. Why would petrify stop petrify?

[Sando]

do we have mod confirmation that petrification doesnt stop voting for leader?

Yes

[Sando]

do we have mod confirmation that petrification doesnt stop voting for leader?

Yes

where is that said anywhere? did you ask the mod and he replied to you privately?

Yes...like all other questions...we covered the question mechanic days ago.

Also Creature definitely also asked the mod the same question, and I think Drixx did to. Push a Sando/Drixx/Creature scumteam all you want though.

[Sando]

We have two unresolved paradox's:

How are the powers different to what town!Math said?

How can scum get scum!Math elected leader?

Claiming that people are fucking stupid for believing one while not addressing the other is just...fucking...toxic.

[Sando]

There's nothing to stop scum petrifying Sakura tonight anyway, other than negate which also stops heal. This whole line of discussion is just so fucking asinine.

That’s what I’ve been trying to say. But by tomorrow night, we’ll hopefully know whether Math is scum, especially if I heal. I trust Nero in this game and if he tells me to heal, I will.

I meant you, I corrected it two posts later.

You want 2xdoc but can't give a reason why scum won't just petrify you, which doc doesn't stop.

[Sando]

We have two unresolved paradox's:

How are the powers different to what town!Math said?

How can scum get scum!Math elected leader?

Claiming that people are fucking stupid for believing one while not addressing the other is just...fucking...toxic.

the powers are different because its mod confirmed that they're different

scum can get scum!math elected leader if one of ausuka/sakura forgot their actions, or scum has a factional that can change leader votes, that we don't know.

so am I not being toxic anymore? you're clearly working on faulty logic.

So scum cannot possibly have the ability to mess with the next days powers, but scum could possibly have the power to change leader votes?

[Sando]

There's nothing to stop scum petrifying

Sakura

tonight anyway, other than negate which also stops heal. This whole line of discussion is just so fucking asinine.

Edit: nothing to stop them petrifying NANCY*

This is true.

So I'll ask again.

What the actual fuck, why are you not healing Sakura when you 100% know scum can petrify you tonight and you never get a heal off?

[Sando]

Math/Drixx are right about the petrification resolution, Nancy's wouldn't go off, I checked with Mod.

I also asked what happens if two people target each other with petrification and explicitly didn't get an answer.

[Sando]

mod clarification that leader votes aren't actions so they're not affected by petrification

nancy voted mathblade or the game makes no sense

I voted nero cain

Unless scum can mess with votes somehow undeclared, there has to be 2 scum in Gamma/Tor/Nancy.

We established this like 10 pages ago.

[Sando]

Tor is the right answer.

I have been fighting for his lynch all game.

Sando please. Just trust me rather than spamming something over and over to Nancy.

I'm ABSOLUTELY not letting Nancy get to EOD without healing, it's just flat out not happening.

The fact that you're against the heal is just pinging me so hard right now.

[Sando]

Tor is the right answer.

I have been fighting for his lynch all game.

Sando please. Just trust me rather than spamming something over and over to Nancy.

I'm ABSOLUTELY not letting Nancy get to EOD without healing, it's just flat out not happening.

The fact that you're against the heal is just pinging me so hard right now.

I am not against it.

I have been quoting her to do it.

I have been saying it is irrelevant. I can take care of her either way.

Ok NOW that healing has been used we can lynch Tor.

Anyone wanna claim to have used heal other than Nancy?

[Sando]

I can prove mathblade is scum

ready?

*Hits F5*

[Sando]

Love you Sakura, that helped.

Also rofl

[Sando]

So either Aus didn't vote and we have 1 scum in gamma/Tora, or Aus voted and we have 2 scum in gamma/Tora?

[Sando]

Math can't mathmatically be scum still.

One of Tora/Gamma is lying or both, about voting Nero leader.

If they're both lying, they're both scum.
If one is lying, the other voted Nero and we have 100% confirmation Sakura-town voted Nero, that's 2 votes and impossible for scum!Mathblade to overcome.

[Sando]

Scum setting up Math for a mislynch makes a shitload more sense than "factional abilities yo".

Tora is scum here.

Gamma is partner or Aus didn't vote.

[Sando]

{Math, Tora} almost certainly contains the last scum if Gamma flips red right Sando?

Wanna explain how Gamma/Math/Nancy got Math leader over 2 votes on Nero for me there?

[Sando]

how do you setup for mislynch a player that cannot be lynched?

Tomorrow Literally what's being suggested, lynching Math tomorrow.

[Sando]

how do you setup for mislynch a player that cannot be lynched?

Tomorrow Literally what's being suggested, lynching Math tomorrow.

and who else would we lynch today but the people that claimed voting nero?

you're hardcore not thinking this through

You mean the no-lynch the flipped scum was pushing?

[Sando]

Math can't mathmatically be scum still.

One of Tora/Gamma is lying or both, about voting Nero leader.

If they're both lying, they're both scum.
If one is lying, the other voted Nero and we have 100% confirmation Sakura-town voted Nero, that's 2 votes and impossible for scum!Mathblade to overcome.

[Sando]

how do you setup for mislynch a player that cannot be lynched?

Tomorrow Literally what's being suggested, lynching Math tomorrow.

and who else would we lynch today but the people that claimed voting nero?

you're hardcore not thinking this through

You mean the no-lynch the flipped scum was pushing?

didn't you argue for no lynch though?

I didn't understand why you were doing that.

When you said there was "nothing we could do" I said it was a possibility, yes.

[Sando]

Tora makes more sense for FA becoming leader D3 as well, it would mean 2 scum had been picked by townFA who had also said she was likely to pick a very similar list.

[Sando]

So here's an interesting thought:

Nero was definitely voted for by: Ausuka, Sakura

That means it took 3 votes to make math leader. We now know Nancy was one of those votes. So let's look at the assigned + claimed Nero voter group again:

{

Ausuka

,

Sakura

,

Nancy

, Toranaga, Gamma Emerald}

Tell me why the answer isn't Tora + Gamma again?

It's either both of them or Aus didn't vote and it's 1 of them.

[Sando]

So here's an interesting thought:

Nero was definitely voted for by: Ausuka, Sakura

That means it took 3 votes to make math leader. We now know Nancy was one of those votes. So let's look at the assigned + claimed Nero voter group again:

{

Ausuka

,

Sakura

,

Nancy

, Toranaga, Gamma Emerald}

Tell me why the answer isn't Tora + Gamma again?

It's either both of them or Aus didn't vote and it's 1 of them.

Wait, no, it has to be both of them? Since if one is telling the truth, then that's 2 guaranteed votes on Nero that can't be overcome?

[Sando]

I think if you kinda keep asking yourself "why would an intelligent scumteam who was winning do that" you'll reach your conclusion

one with mathblade makes sense

one without mathblade would just throw like that

mafia is never that easy anyway

So your theory is Math made himself leader, hoped we wouldn't lynch Nancy (lol) so they could win tonight? Literally the first person suspected at daystart other than Math was Nancy, and the whole "scum win tonight" is out the window if we lynch Nancy.

We then lynch Math tomorrow, and we're left with...what?

So to sell that, Gamma, the third scum, decided to fakeclaim the nero vote?

Righto...

[Sando]

drixx, nothing is that easy, right? there's no way scum would just hand the game like that

Put Math in leadership, set him up for D7 lynch.
Get a no-lynch today so "we can bomb Math tonight".
Petrify Math N6.
Lynch Math D7.
Scum wins.

[Sando]

lynching gamma today ensures that, if I'm town, I can literally vig myself and don't need to be resolved

You had your chance today, you blew up the town who suggested you blow up Nancy...

Yeah no.

[Sando]

wait a fucking second

wasn't sando suggesting I bombed sakura?

I suggested you not bomb till Mylo was sorted (also you claimed you submitted and then rescinded the Theta bomb, ROFL).
Theta suggested you bomb Nancy
I said don't bomb Nancy, because I was working on the assumption that Aus couldn't have voted because dead, and that was also pre-Gamma I believe, so I thought only 1 confirmed scum between you/Nancy.
I then posited that 2 scum in Tora/Gamma/Sakura, and I said more likely it's Sakura as scum instead of Gamma because of vote-claim.
You blow up Theta

[Sando]

so you wanted me to blow sakura and you're now calling me scum for not blowing up nancy, who you said made no sense if I blew up

@sando

how are you making any sense right now?

I never called you scum because you blew up on Theta or for not blowing up Nancy.

I said we're not giving you the chance to do it tomorrow, because you blew up on Theta...

[Sando]

not giving me the chance means lynching me, sando

you tried to bully me into detonating obvtown or get lynched for it. that's scummy. you're now trying to get me lynched, and since I know I'm town, I'm gonna say that's also scummy.

half of you can't mafia it's amazing. I hope sando is a wolf, guys.

Rofl

Yeah you're 100% scum, this is hilarious.

VOTE: Toranaga

[Sando]

Drixx/Nero obvious leaders tonight.

Drixx/Nero/Sando/Creature/Kokichi for powers? We need to leash Math imo still.

With 1 scum alive I think they can still petrify+kill potentially?

Drixx voters - Sando, Nero, Math, Creature, Gamma
Nero voters - Drixx, Kokichi, the worst, Nos

Drixx and Nero should both take goo and use it I think, no-one else does anything.

[Sando]

Drixx/Nero obvious leaders tonight.

Drixx/Nero/Sando/Creature/Kokichi for powers? We need to leash Math imo still.

With 1 scum alive I think they can still petrify+kill potentially?

Drixx voters - Sando, Nero, Math, Creature, Gamma
Nero voters - Drixx, Kokichi, the worst, Nos

Drixx and Nero should both take goo and use it I think, no-one else does anything.

I agree to powers list

I plan on SS suicide bombing whoever of Tor/Gamma isn’t lynched since that should be gg
I plan to vote Drixx

Can I go to bed now?

As long as mod confirms that a person who echo's your bomb onto Nero/Drixx gets goo'd, sure. If not, might not be wise to bomb.

[Sando]

Goo isn’t available today I don’t think?

Ahhh crap, I was looking at my D5 notes.

Nero/Drixx, do you guys happen to have goo?

[Sando]

nein

Hmph, anyone got goo? Pretty much total protection from scum as far as I can tell, as long as lynches still hold power.

[Sando]

Ive submitted

sando, you're a genius

I asked to hold off on that sui for now

I'm ISOing theta. it's awfully scumsplaining ISO apart from a few kinda towny moments.

does anyone know how to parse zmuffin out and what was the verdict on him?

I love that Sakura's suicide goes off in like 1 minute flat, but Tora wants us to believe he submitted and was allowed to rescind the submission.

[Sando]

and why would I fake it as scum? lolsando

anyway gngn

Credibility.

Also the Math setup relied on Nancy convincing us to no-lynch, she needed the carrot that you would bomb Math. Hence the play-acting around "zomg you just fucked us" from Nancy later.

[Sando]

When Tor flips scum, can I be locktown please?

We can then just have Sando vote Nero, Nero vote Drixx, Drixx vote Sando.

Completely unfuckable by scum outside of those 3. Scum have one vote, and they can't vote themselves.

Math can bomb Gamma, one scum can't redirect and petrify, so absolute max dead in the three is 2, and Gamma dies overnight.

If you can't locktown me, replace me with whoever you can locktown and same plan.

[Sando]

Drixx/Nero I think you're the leader candidates in the case of a townflip, plans for tonight? If you've got goo that's a good one, but then best to tell townies not to protect as well.

Math can 'safely' bomb on a scumflip since we can assume they have petrify so echo is just a swap for that.

[Sando]

Also Drixx/Nero you guys happy to do the three-way single vote with me? Scum can't possibly get us all, and scum can't vote themselves to equal us. We'd be the only ones that vote (see my iso for the round-robin).

[Sando]

If Tor somehow flips town which I find extremely unlikely we need to have that check of me to everyone.

If Tor flips town somehow then I can't see Gamma/Math not having at least one, possibly two scum in it. I'd rather you suicide bomb Gamma tomorrow w/o protection at that point I think.

[Sando]

If not precogging so can bomb tonight, why not bombing today so we can adjust our lynch to it?

[Sando]

if scum had the power to change the actions like that, we wouldn't even have precog in the first place.

and why would scum give us suicide bombing and elect town!math to get it? makes no sense, drixx.

What about the difference in powers between what Math posted and what's available makes it worthwhile for Math to blatantly lie about the powers?

[Sando]

By the by people.

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT VOTE TOMORROW.

NO VOTES, NONE, NADA, ALL TALK.

[Sando]

if scum had the power to change the actions like that, we wouldn't even have precog in the first place.

and why would scum give us suicide bombing and elect town!math to get it? makes no sense, drixx.

What about the difference in powers between what Math posted and what's available makes it worthwhile for Math to blatantly lie about the powers?

my theory is that mathblade never took precog last gameday, and wolves just know all the powers that are available in the game, without knowing what gamedays they will be available in. that's why from the 6 powers math said, 3 of them were just not there and 2 of them are brand new powers. he knew what powers were left in the game and just claimed those cause they'd likely be the d6 powers, and then got 1 out of 4 for the other powers.

it's definitely not a mod mistake. it's a lie.

Math precog'd D4 correctly didn't he? That was post Titus flip, so he had the list and had to correctly guess it there?

[Sando]

On TownFlip:

Drixx/Nero obvious leaders tonight.

Drixx/Nero/Sando/Creature/Kokichi for powers? We need to leash Math imo still.

Drixx voters - Sando, Nero, Math, Creature, Gamma
Nero voters - Drixx, Kokichi, the worst, Nos

On ScumFlip:

We can then just have Sando vote Nero, Nero vote Drixx, Drixx vote Sando.

Completely unfuckable by scum outside of those 3. Scum have one vote, and they can't vote themselves.

In scumflip, no-one outside of Sando/Nero/Drixx vote for leaders.

I think also no-one should use powers tonight? I guess investigatives can be used?

[Sando]

Oh BP is fine to use I think too.

[Sando]

In scumflip, no-one outside of Sando/Nero/Drixx vote for leaders.

and the rest of us don't vote?

Correct, basically un-messable to have 3. Also if scum want to elect a 4th person somehow, they're just conf!towning that person, which aint a bad thing.

[Sando]

Why are we not getting a full power claim by the way? In what world is it best to keep that shit quiet? Town have been "doing what's best for us" all game, they've been fucking wrong every time.

One way or the other, we got an unexplainable outcome today, hiding powers is just anti-town at this point.

I'll start - I aint got shit, just the way I like it.

[Sando]

Why are we not getting a full power claim by the way? In what world is it best to keep that shit quiet? Town have been "doing what's best for us" all game, they've been fucking wrong every time.

One way or the other, we got an unexplainable outcome today, hiding powers is just anti-town at this point.

I'll start - I aint got shit, just the way I like it.

I'm pretty sure everybody claimed everything by now...

Over like a dozen individual posts.

[Sando]

It's literally probably Math/Gamma tho

???

stop scumposting aaaaa I'm getting paranoid

Gamma/Tora has to contain 1 wolf mechanically

No, Gamma/Tor can only contain 1 scum if Aus didn't vote. Not an unreasonable assumption, but if Aus voted then Gamma must be scum.

Unless scum can change the votes/leader.

[Sando]

Thanks Tora.

Where's our "Obvtown Kokichi" btw?

[Sando]

So we don't know:
Mathblade N4 power?
3 of the N5s, although I think Kokichi echo is confirmed?

[Sando]

ausuka or whoever it was actually
point is MY VOTE CHANGES THINGS

noting that gamma emerald actually retracted that he voted nero

Rofl

No he didn't, he retracted that he was supposed to vote you:

Like the initial plan had me on Tor,

but I voted Nero. So it's practically impossible for math to be scum right?

[Sando]

So we don't know:
Mathblade N4 power?
3 of the N5s, although I think Kokichi echo is confirmed?

mathblade claimed SS

kokichi echo is confirmed. my sui is confirmed. nero cain's absortion is not confirmed but he claimed to have received drixx' doc ability before drixx confirmed. he is also towny and the shift to mathblade probably doesn't ever happen if nero is scum.

the only ability we don't know of is nancy. for math to be town, nancy has to have taken petrification and used it that night, because only nancy and math could have petrification.

Was Math in the hero list last night? And do we have a claim of power there? SS was N4 question correct?

[Sando]

yes SS was to n4

math was gladly not in the hero list last night, no.

we have the claimed powers pretty much. me/kokichi/nero are an awesome little combo of confirming each other's powers.

So: Sakura, FA, Nero, Kokichi, Tora - who is the 6th?

[Sando]

We always flip Gamma today right?

Is there a reason you just go along with literally everything Tora suggests? He's basically confirmed scum here, and every time he suggests an alternative lynch you're right there with a "shit yeah, what Tora said!"

[Sando]

current lynch/kill pool is me/gamma/mathblade, right?

if gamma flips scum, both me or mathblade can still be scum. in fact, me and mathblade are the literal two most likely scum partners for gamma.

if either me or mathblade flips scum, the other is clear

Like this logic is 100% applicable to Tora, swap Tora and Gamma in this and it makes the EXACT SAME amount of sense. It's just floundering plans for the sake of it now, in a desperate attempt to stay alive until tomorrow.

Also no, it's still more likely to be a 3rd unknown than it is to be Math.

[Sando]

Math did you submit the team I suggested? If not, what'd you submit?

[Sando]

no it's not cause I'm never scum with mathblade.

And I'm never scum with Titus, yet you still want to accuse me of scum.

Get outa here with that BS logic.

[Sando]

sando try to explain to me how changing gamma and tora in that post makes exactly the same sense.

also are you now saying I'm scum but gamma is town? I feel like that's what you're suggesting right now.

No...I'm saying what I've been saying for a long time now:
Tora is scum
Gamma 50%, Other 45%, Math 5% - percentages for last scum.

Those are just indicative, but yeah, there's a third scum out there, Math is very unlikely to be that (requires scumpower that's been hidden), and Gamma is the most likely scum but not a lock.

[Sando]

no it's not cause I'm never scum with mathblade.

And I'm never scum with Titus, yet you still want to accuse me of scum.

Get outa here with that BS logic.

so you think I can be scum with mathblade, is that what you're saying now?

I think it's by far and away the least likely scenario here.

[Sando]

if I'm scum and gamma is town, that means ausuka forgot to send her leader vote and for some reason me and nancy thought it'd be a good idea to elect mathblade leader. that's what you think happened, sando?

I've literally said that like 5 times...

[Sando]

so the by far and away least likely scenario is exactly what I was referring to when I said me/gamma or math/gamma are the thread consensus

No it's not. Only you and the yellow quack-box think Math/Gamma is the 2nd most likely.

You+Other is more likely than that.
Gamma+Other is also more likely than that.

[Sando]

so scum decided to throw the game by having me and nancy drew, both players who were supposed to vote for nero, vote mathblade and make him unlynchable, on top of changing his precog results, to what end? and then, on top of that, our "plan" would fail, if only ausuka didn't forget to vote for nero cain. so it's the combination of something scum would never do if they're thinking, with something else scum would never do if they're thinking, with a dead town player just forgetting to vote because you can't even consider a scenario where I'm scum and gamma is town without assuming things you can't possibly know about and are likely untrue.

can you confirm to me that's what you're thinking, sando?

You're just being deliberately dense here.

Scumteam:

Tora/Nancy/Mr.X

Plan:

Get Math elected, change precogs, set Math up for D7 mislynch and hopefully get a no-lynch D6. Blow up town for the win.

We had 4 voters on Nero: Aus, Sakura, Tora, Nancy

No possible way to stop Aus/Sakura from voting, so to get Math elected scum needed 3 votes to 2. Tora/Nancy take Nero's VC down to 2, Mr.X then votes Math and Math becomes leader once Aus is dead.

Then Gamma claims Nero vote: This means EITHER, Gamma is lying, or Aus did not submit and the exact same plan with Mr.X occurred.

The 2 Nero voters are either:
Sakura+Gamma or
Sakura+Aus

The 3 Math voters are either:
Tora+Nancy+Gamma or
Tora+Nancy+Mr.X or
Gamma+Nancy+Mr.X

[Sando]

let's see who was talking about no lynch this gameday hmmmmm

Really good luck convincing people I'm scum here Tora, really, really good luck to ya.

Also...Nancy

[Sando]

whoever is a wolf will kill someone tonight. that's how bad this is. we don't lynch wolf, it's pretty over

No Lynch.

we need to

look we can't kill any scum with anything. I don't have sui. whoever has sui will just get PN'ed. we can't take this to night and expect to work. scum was leader d2, d3, and today lel. no night actions will work against them.

oh I fucking destroyed that when YOU brought it up, didn't I

so I wanted to hope town went for a no lynch while simultaneously destroying the idea of not lynching? is that what you think sando? the no lynch idea that YOOOOOOOOOOOOU brought up and I turned down, was something I wanted? and that's why I gave mathblade the leadership?

confirm to me those are your thoughts.

Why are you quoting yourself lying about having Sui?

[Sando]

don't change the subject. I thought I didn't have sui because I got a "you received no powers" from the mod, which he referred to my mimickry results but I confused that with me just being hard blocked. I almost immediately noticed my mistake and explained what happened in the thread.

speaking of a man of curious thoughts, I see you're the first person bringing up no lynch? and you do it again, here:

7. The presiding Leader cannot die except in LYLO/MYLO or if a no lynch is achieved.

Dis is what I'm going off.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA, hey duckling, if you read this from Tora and still want to TR him, I'm calling you out, if you continue to TR this slot you're getting rope.

A) Nah I'm not changing the subject, you blatantly lied about having suicide bomb.

B) I was clearly talking about Mylo/Lylo, to duckling, which you'd called me a genius for.

[Sando]

A) Nah I'm not changing the subject, you blatantly lied about having suicide bomb.

[Sando]

ohey look people talking around me
that sure sounds like this game


Sando you broke the anti pyramid rule. prepare to face the wrath of Ra

I'm not talking around here, turn up and play!

AHAHAHAHAHAHA, hey duckling, if you read this from Tora and still want to TR him, I'm calling you out, if you continue to TR this slot you're getting rope.

[Sando]

this is probably t/t and definitely boring

Good lord duckling, if you're scum with Tora, you'll have seriously made my god-damn day

Love this.

[Sando]

I have almost no idea what the post you asked me to read is saying

Tora is claiming that this:

don't change the subject. I thought I didn't have sui because I got a "you received no powers" from the mod, which he referred to my mimickry results but I confused that with me just being hard blocked. I almost immediately noticed my mistake and explained what happened in the thread.

speaking of a man of curious thoughts, I see you're the first person bringing up no lynch? and you do it again, here:

7. The presiding Leader cannot die except in LYLO/MYLO or if a no lynch is achieved.

Dis is what I'm going off.

Is me arguing for a no-lynch, rather than the reality is me referencing mylo/lylo. Given that my post was directed TO YOU, you should be able to verify.

[Sando]

oh yeah that was Sando explaining to me that if it was Mylo we could lynch the obvscum leader

How many times does Tora have to misrep me before you stop TRing him?

[Sando]

why would I lie about having suicide bombing, sando? I explained what happened, it's a sensible explanation, why are you refusing to acknowledge I could have confused mimickry results with being hard blocked somehow? and why would I lie about having suicide bombing in the first place? to what end?

Because getting hard-blocked is YET ANOTHER mechanic that doesn't exist. You got the message saying you're in the team, you sent in the message with what power you wanted. Then instead of thinking you may have missed the message with confirmation of power, you thought you got blocked?!

Nah bro.

[Sando]

I never got message confirming powers. I only got literally "you acquired no abilities".

in the very same page I said I was power negated and got nothing, which isn't even a thing, I corrected myself. I didn't try to lie about it, I was confused for like... 20 minutes? I should check the timestamps to be sure.

Hold up, cause I have no powers and so I don't know the process.

You're saying that mod doesn't send a message confirming you got powers? I mean there's a few others that can confirm/deny this.

[Sando]

you don't get confirmation that you got powers, no. because... you always get powers when you ask for powers. nothing scum can do will change this, so brian thought it was a no brainer. I was supposed to know what that message was about, but it was just my mimickry and I goofed, mostly because mathblade was elected leader and I was absolutely freaking out in the thread.

why would I lie about this, sando? just what's the fucking point?

So you never get notified of getting/not-getting a power, but you somehow thought you didn't get the power?

Like...what? What'd you think, mod fuckup?

[Sando]

This is why you get talked around duckling, any time I pose a question to you you walk around it.

Tora is blatantly being scummy in front of you, and you'd rather bang on about who's talked the most today.

[Sando]

This is why you get talked around duckling, any time I pose a question to you you walk around it.

Tora is blatantly being scummy in front of you, and you'd rather bang on about who's talked the most today.

I'm saying the stuff that's being talked around doesn't.... seem scum indicative? it's all insanely presumptuous so I'm jw if we can just lynch people who are scummy

He literally just took my comments to you and tried to twist them into meaning something else...how is that NOT scum indicative?

[Sando]

sando, will you acknowledge that I was against "no lynch"?

You're seriously trying to say that no literally post of "no-lynch" is hardcore advocating it, while you want me to also say that you being like "nah, Ima lie about having sui and say we need to kill scum today" is you being deadset against it?

whoever is a wolf will kill someone tonight. that's how bad this is. we don't lynch wolf, it's pretty over

No Lynch.

This, this is what you want to say makes me scum? You also want to say that I'm scum because of a plan THAT I FUCKING POSTED. You think I'm outing my own scumplan so I can get nailed to it, but you SIMULTANEOUSLY think it's an outrageous plan that scum would never do...

I'm done talking to you, no town are stupid enough to buy your bullshit. I have work to do, see people tomorrow.

[Sando]

I think Math/Gamma are mechanically confirmed scum? I don't even fucking know but if I'm wrong someone is going to have to explain to me very slowly why

No same position mechanically for Math, actually more townie given we now have confirmed 2 townvotes on Nero N5 that Math!Scum can't beat.

Given the plan was me in the power-pool though and I didn't get powers, I'd like that addressed.

Also scum, especially scum-Math, have vote movement abilities, you should NOT BE VOTING.

[Sando]

oh no night kill that's exciting

VOTE: Mathblade anwyas

Nero would like a word...

[Sando]

I think Math/Gamma are mechanically confirmed scum? I don't even fucking know but if I'm wrong someone is going to have to explain to me very slowly why

Ok why Math cannot "mechanically" be scum:

a) Sakura and Tora are both confirmed town who confirmed they voted Nero for leader Night 5. Ausuka is also town who was supposed to vote for Math, but we'll assume she didn't.
b) No-one was listed to vote Math for leader N5.
c) Scum have a maximum of 3 votes overnight
d) Math cannot vote for himself
e) Scum can put a max of 2 votes on a scum
f) If both Math and Nero had 2 leader votes, Nero would have won both because he wasn't on the mislynch the day before while Math was, and Nero had been leader less times than Math.

So for Math to be scum something has to be off here. Most likely something to do with C.

[Sando]

there's enough people left alive I can vote where I want imo

Two town votes on a townie = instant loss possibility.

[Sando]

there's enough people left alive I can vote where I want imo

Two town votes on a townie = instant loss possibility.

Actually unless the mod is taking a really hard intepretation of mind control decent chance Math-scum just flat out wins this any time they want.

[Sando]

there's enough people left alive I can vote where I want imo

Two town votes on a townie = instant loss possibility.

Actually unless the mod is taking a really hard intepretation of mind control decent chance Math-scum just flat out wins this any time they want.

how so

If scum can "move" my vote from not voting to voting someone, they simply coordinate their votes with 2 MC votes, that's the 4 they need.

If they can't "move" from an unvoted state, it'd be pretty stupid for us to just throw our votes out there, wouldn't it?

[Sando]

That said, don't remove your vote, I need two more people other than Math to check in.

[Sando]

@Drixx only submit people you're 100% confident are not scum. Giving them super-speed instantly loses the game even if we can stop the loss happening today.

Oh anyone petrified right now is 100% confirmed town due to Mylo/Lylo numbers btw.

[Sando]

since Drixx is like just town why not let them flashwagon Math if he's town? we win tomorrow even if they have a shot of mind control each

Math is scum, unless scum somehow control both the leader votes and the power, which if I lose to I really don't care.

The issue is if they control the leader votes, that also removes Gamma as mechanically scum.

[Sando]

Oh never mind, MC is targeted in the preceeding night phase, and we got petrified echo'd.

We good. Sorry for the scare.

Math is 100% confirmed scum through petrification though, he's the only person alive with it. The 2nd petrification would be the hidden person Titus put up using Echo.

[Sando]

Ok so we lynch Math today, that eliminates the petrifications coming our way.

We can be pretty confident that the partner got powers N2 under Titus and N4 under Mathblade when another "hero" died.

N2: Duplication, Hearing, Impen Skin, Negation, Precog, Weather Manip
N4: Doc, Freezing, Impen Skin, Echo, Sirens Call, Super Strength

We can be be pretty confident the 2xpetrification was Math Petrifying and being Echo'd. So that's the N4 pick.

None of the N2 picks are killing powers, meaning I think at worst they have double-vote tomorrow.

[Sando]

For reference, petrification was only available nights 3 and 5, when the leaders were both town so we can assume they aren't lying about who they submitted:

N3 Leader+Picks - (FA) Mathblade Sakura Shiro drixx nancy
N5 Leader+Picks - (Sakura), Nero, FA, Tora, Kokichi, Drixx

All of N3 except Mathblade are dead/petrified
All of N5 are dead/petrified

[Sando]

None of the N2 picks are killing powers, meaning I think at worst they have double-vote tomorrow.

Actually I think if this is true we could actually just submit everyone, is there anything we'd care about scum getting?

If I'm right and we're looking at an echo+N2power for the last scum, then they can't have superstrength. So we could risk making it nightless by giving everyone powers and them picking up bulletproof tonight. Gives scum superspeed which isn't fun.

We technically have 3 conf!towns waiting on healing becoming available, if we can make it nightless, we could potentially cycle through day/nights to get there, we just keep electing the petrified people and they don't give anyone anymore powers until healing comes up. Give it to say 3 people all with healing assignments that night, bobs your uncle.

[Sando]

sorry. Koki/Drixx lock town and.......?

No you're right, it's 2, I was thinking of Sakura and not taking into account the suicide.

But yes, those two are conf!town 100%.