Micro 879: The Black Site [game over]

[Skygazer]

VC 3.02 (unchanged)

Not Voting (5): Voyc, Lil Uzi Vert, Auro and Shoshin, teacher, shEll

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 3 ends in (expired on 2019-08-11 13:40:00).

[Auro and Shoshin]

It's untrue that I was leading poster in the first game you played with me.

Not the, a. You posts 38 times in the first to tell if days, Nd enough content for people to confidently meta read you by post 100. You were th gravitational center of the game. Like elephants early vote come not because you said you were going to read up, but because you said I was definitely scum Nd you wanted to read to find my partner.

This isn't true. Again, you have this strange faulty memory with respect to that game. It's probably because you were mislyched and getting mislynched sucks. It's like you've completely forgotten the fact that I was the only player that game who kept saying you were town for the entire game prior to LYLO (and remember, that's no small thing when everyone else in that game except me called you scum from D1 to the end). And you've forgotten the fact that I came into LYLO repeatedly saying that I needed time to solve the game, that I needed to read up things, etc. And then, as I was going through the game in my typical fashion, I was highlighting posts from you that pinged me. That happened, yes. But at no point did I say "Teacher's scum, end of discussion." That's just untrue. If you look at how I approach other games in similar situations, I do the same thing. I quote posts from different players but until I make a final decision, you don't who know who I'm voting. Another example: this game. I've pointed out scummy things from you, Shell, Voyc, and LUV. But do you know who I plan to vote for between you? No, you don't. Pointing out scummy things that a player did isn't the same as saying that player is scum who needs to be lynched. It's just part of the process of figuring out where I want to lynch.

I appreciate your responding. But I don’t appreciate both your and auro missing the thrust of my question. Why was I lower than LuV (you guy are supposedly talking about all slots, so you must know the reasons). Why did you hammer with multiple questions pending yesterday? Why did you hammer D1 after functionally ignoring the wagon (for “secret” reasons) rather than allow the person who had claimed intent? What are my “secret” unique towntells you notably refer to but never disclose?

Your questions don't go anywhere useful. I think we've been pretty clear about the fact that you defended Kop whereas LUV didn't. What are you hoping to learn about our alignment from this question that you don't already know from our posting?

You ask why I hammered with multiple questions pending? Why is this even a question from you? You know I don't answer questions, yet somehow you think it's relevant to my alignment? Please explain the intent behind this behavior.

I don't see how any of your questions are helpful to sorting alignments. I ignore them because they're bad questions. And I'm going to keep ignoring all these dumb questions. You can assume if I question hasn't been answered the first time you ask, I thought it was a bad question. The fact that you keep asking these bad questions is very concerning to me. Please explain why these questions are so important that you feel the need to keep asking them. Townies usually drop pointless questions; scum don't.

[teacher]

ARRRGGGH.

First, youre entitled to your own opinions, as I am entitled to mine. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Every factual statement I made about 2042 was true.

• "You posts 38 times in the first to tell if days [two real life days]": Yep.
  
• "enough content for people to confidently meta read you by post 100.": Yep.
  
• "you said I was definitely scum Nd you wanted to read to find my partner.": Yep.
  
• "elephants early vote come . . .because you said I was definitely scum": Yep.

So take your faulty memory and shove it. We have different perspectives on the same game. I remember it just fine, and no, you were not the only player to TR me.
Which brings me to the second point:

My questions are useful. To me. I dont give a rat's ass whether you think they are useful or not - we clearly approach and think about the game in quite different ways. Have the respect for another player -- in fact two other players, since Voyc asked them too -- to answer them. I think its more that people are more willing to put up with your bullshit disrespectful fancypants play and drop it than I am.

[teacher]

shEll has been prodded.

teacher is on V/LA.

Any update on ShEll?

FYI, for the board, my V/LA is a trip to iceland tonight. Thereafter I will be mobile limited and off-hours while backpacking - Sky has my proxy if I havent checked in to replace me without prodding, but I will do my best.

[teacher]

've pointed out scummy things from you, Shell, Voyc, and LUV.

Um.... False. I just Iso'ed you and controlled F. Youve pushed me and, to a lesser extent Shell. You have not pointed out a single scummy thing from LuV at all. For Voyc, the only negative comment is in 195, where Sho calls them self-conscious and passive: atmospherics, not specific things.

I think we've been pretty clear about the fact that you defended Kop whereas LUV didn't.

True. But go back to 419. Does scum typically hard defend their partner? Or, since you read my scum games for 2042, do I as scum do so?

You ask why I hammered with multiple questions pending? Why is this even a question from you? You know I don't answer questions, yet somehow you think it's relevant to my alignment? Please explain the intent behind this behavior.

But the questions werent pending to you. They were pending to NSG who was the obvious NK. Your hammer prevented getting additional reactions and reads from an obv!town slot. Why?

Calling my questions "bad", "dumb", and "pointless" is just ad hominem bluster. I want to understand your thought process. You dont want to give it, thats your choice.

[Skygazer]

Seeking a replacement for shEll. If they return before one is found, they may keep their slot!

[Auro and Shoshin]

ARRRGGGH.

First, youre entitled to your own opinions, as I am entitled to mine. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Every factual statement I made about 2042 was true.

• "You posts 38 times in the first to tell if days [two real life days]": Yep.
  
• "enough content for people to confidently meta read you by post 100.": Yep.
  
• "you said I was definitely scum Nd you wanted to read to find my partner.": Yep.
  
• "elephants early vote come . . .because you said I was definitely scum": Yep.

So take your faulty memory and shove it. We have different perspectives on the same game. I remember it just fine, and no, you were not the only player to TR me.
Which brings me to the second point:

Your version of facts is simply wrong. You said I was a leading poster & gravitation center, and that's simply untrue. These are the facts:

Spoiler:

1. I had the least number of posts of any townie alive in LYLO. I also had the least number of posts of any townie after D1. And I was prodded multiple times because I didn't post at all for large periods of time. I frankly think it's absurd that you'd call me a "leading poster in the game" and "gravitational center" based on the first 48 hours of the game while ignoring everything that happened after that. And given that we're past D1 in this game, the relevant context for comparison is what happened after D1, not what I did in the first 48 hours of the game. I also find the number of posts you cite, 38, indicative of low activity for me. I had roughly three times that number of posts in Mini 2080 in the first 24 hours, for example.

2. You said I posted enough content to be meta read. Okay, go back & tell me where you see enough content in the game to meta read me, because I don't see it. I'd argue that I've posted more meaningful content in this game than Mini 2042. It certainly feels like I've been more engaged here than I ever was there. Tellingly, multiple players expressly called me out for low activity/content in Mini 2042, and you ironically scumread me for most of the game, which contradicts your claim about "enough content to confidently meta read."

3. You say I wasn't the only player to townread you. Who else townread you? Xwing/Krazy don't count because they were scum.

4. Your analysis of LYLO ignores virtually every relevant fact. Let's start with the specific words I wrote in the post you cite: "It's very unlikely that Krazy's scum. So I guess it's teacher. But I need to finish rereading before voting, and I need to sort teacher's partner. Associations exist for both Irrel and xwing at this point, so it's a tough decision."

I didn't use the word "definitely" anywhere. I didn't even say Krazy was "definitely" town, and my entire read on you at this point was based on my read of Krazy. The words I used were "I guess it's Teacher." Do you know what "I guess" means? It means "not definitely." I was qualifying my read on you with as low confidence as possible, a slight step up from saying "it could be Teacher," which means nothing.

It was also anything but "end of discussion" about you: My next words, "But I need to finish rereading before voting," were very clear about the fact that nothing was settled. It's especially telling in context: I started LYLO with you as town, then called you scum (post 934), then called you town (post 935), then called you scum again. I had a similar back-and-forth about every player in LYLO, not just you. I called xwing scum, then called him town, then called him scum again. I called Irrel town, then scum, then town. I called Krazy scum, then town, then scum, then town. My reads were in flux, often changing. If I had any degree of confidence, I would have voted. But instead, I kept saying I needed more time.

Notably, I followed this post up by continuing to engage with you about the game (this isn't something I do to someone I believe is "definitely" scum), and I expressly said I would decide things after Thanksgiving (something I never had a chance to do because of Irrelephant).

You refer to me looking for your partner as meaning you were "definitely" scum, but that's not what it means to look for a scumteam. Finding a scumteam is how I sort YOUR alignment, because if I don't feel comfortable calling the entire team as you/xwing or you/Irrel, then I'm not going to vote you, period. I'm looking for both scum, not just one. This applies in all my games, and you see it even on D1, though the logic applies doubly at LYLO. It's how I sort alignments, not an indication that you were solved already.

You also ignore all my posts mentioning over & over that I haven't solved the game and still need to keep rereading and thinking. I specifically asked for meta to read up on from everyone. In 956, I said I'd "explain" my reads when I figured them out, but I never explained anything, meaning they weren't figured out yet. In 1006, I once again state: "Don't have time atm to do the in-depth reading and thinking I want to do." I kept repeating that I needed time to solve the game. How is this indicative that you were "definitely" scum & that discussion was over?

You say Irrelephant voted you because of me. Irrelephant voted you because he thought you were scum, and he thought that since D1, way before anything I said and in spite of what I said earlier in the game. He gave a bunch of his own reasons to vote you, and acknowledged openly that he had no idea why I townread Krazy or why I wasn't talking about my reasoning. Irrelephant just misplayed the LYLO by not waiting for confirmed town to decide on the vote, and that's not my fault when I kept saying I needed more time, that's on Irrel.

For a point of comparison on what it looks like when I'm confident about a read at LYLO, look at my other LYLO games. I consider all possibilities, but once I'm certain about a read, I make that very clear. In Nomination Mafia, as an example, I forced a 1v1 with scum at LYLO who I had previously been calling "locktown." Yes, I voted someone I had called "locktown." Auro was there, so he can confirm. Reads at LYLO aren't settled until you vote, and that's especially the case when I'm repeatedly telling you that I need more time to reread and solve.

My questions are useful. To me. I dont give a rat's ass whether you think they are useful or not - we clearly approach and think about the game in quite different ways. Have the respect for another player -- in fact two other players, since Voyc asked them too -- to answer them. I think its more that people are more willing to put up with your bullshit disrespectful fancypants play and drop it than I am

I find it very telling when players continue to pursue pointless questions. I've caught scum this way quite often so I'll continue to use this tactic in games. It's not a matter of respect, it's a matter of testing behaviors, which is what every townie should be doing.

I'd like to know how your questions to me are useful to sorting me?

[Auro and Shoshin]

've pointed out scummy things from you, Shell, Voyc, and LUV.

Um.... False. I just Iso'ed you and controlled F. Youve pushed me and, to a lesser extent Shell. You have not pointed out a single scummy thing from LuV at all. For Voyc, the only negative comment is in 195, where Sho calls them self-conscious and passive: atmospherics, not specific things.

Hmm, maybe. It's hard to remember the difference between what's been posted and what's been discussed in hydra discord. This is not something I'm used to keeping track of.

Does scum typically hard defend their partner? Or, since you read my scum games for 2042, do I as scum do so?

Yes, scum defend their partners. Not always, but often. The problem is that sometimes townies do, and it often comes down to evaluating the player's competence. Why were you so actively trying to avoid Kop lynch? I don't recall you explaining this, but if you did, please point me to the post.

[Voyc]

Prodging, I'm out and about but Ill catch up and stuff when I get home!
Shell being replaced sucks tho

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Let's do a massclaim. Popcorn? We can start.

Teacher, what's your read on us (apart from the question)? Can you explain your progression on us?

Shoshin would like to know what you gain from the questions to her.

-Auro

Why at this juncture?

Any decent moderator will make mass claiming harmful to the town more often than it is beneficial. Making sure that a game cannot be broken in favour of town by mass claim should be very high on the list of priorities when coming up with a new game.

Because three slots (a majority) favor it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Cool, you can go last then.
@LUV: Shoshin and I are stuck at the lynch order to follow. We're conflicted about multiple slots - in that we see town-indicative and scum-indicative stuff.
Since there's one scum remaining, I think a massclaim would help give us more information, and if we have a mechanical inno or two it'll help a lot in deciding a lynch order.

Pedit: Don't activity read Shoshin in this game. This hydra is going to have me largely posting, with her conveying thoughts in the background. That she did post at all is town-indicative IMO; if we repped in to a scumslot it would've been exclusively me posting, with 0 inputs from Shoshin - thus having me have to fake her thoughts. Her lack of posting doesn't have to do with IRL reasons, just the dynamic of the hydra.


-Auro

I guess I’m just a purist at heart. I only find mass claiming extremely useful in end games. I do get that there tend to be certain types of roles scum tend to claim, similar roles that can verify each other, roles that might provide false information without knowlege of another, etc. But, I think a simple reread while waiting on a fresh pair of eyes in Shell’s replacement should be enough for now.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Waiting for shEll's replacement is going to take time.
This is pre LyLo. The game's stalling a lot. It's frustrating without any direction.
Please just continue the claims. LUV, go ahead!

-Auro

[teacher]

To be clear, it’s premylo not lylo. But I agree. Feel free to also answer any questions while we wait

[teacher]

Don’t try to do math when jet lagged.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Waiting for shEll's replacement is going to take time.
This is pre LyLo. The game's stalling a lot. It's frustrating without any direction.
Please just continue the claims. LUV, go ahead!

-Auro

VT.

[teacher]

Both voyc and I have requested later postings, so we are waiting for Shell.

[Skygazer]

pisskop replaces shEll!

[Auro and Shoshin]

Cool, claim pls.
pisskop -> teacher -> Voyc.

[Voyc]

Hello!

Don't have anything to add in particular, hope pisskop can share his thoughts soon!

[pisskop]

Hi I didn't read my pm

am i town?


also, its 10 per meatspace day?

also also I'll be on later tonight to read, maybe tomorrow at the latest.

also also also I just finished telling Jingle to so I plan to take notes.
I'm used to using xcel to, but something onsite would be referenceable. i might make an alt and swap into that asp.

@mod do you want me to pm it to you or will you make me one?

[teacher]

@a+s: stop trying to dictate shit. I’ll go last. It can be confirmed.

[Skygazer]

Fish Monger replaces pisskop.

[Fish Monger]

Hello, I am love fish. I abuse replacement to sneak extra post today. Huehue ha

[Skygazer]

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[Skygazer]

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