Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]

[MathBlade]

I think he knows he is going to get flipped today so he has decided to do some comically bad pushes to make it look like awful distancing so after he dies people think me/datisi are mafia or w/e.

Possibly. Or he didn’t expect to be called out.
Or House is trying to teach him skills
Or just desperate ploy.

It could also be a Townie feeling so lost but the more Frog posts he convinces me it’s not the case.
Just gotta get into his head to see why Frog is being dramatic here

[MathBlade]

MATH YOU DIDN'T READ THE PART I WROTE FOR YOU IN 3451, SHUT THE FUCK UP UNTIL YOU HAVE

I read what you said.
You said for me to do VCA.
It’s been said several times that points to you for D2.

You asked me to not shut you up.
I am not.
I am trying to get you to present your cases in a clear and convincing manner if you’re town.
You seem more interested in anger than a conversation.

Until you talk with me civilly I have no interest in interacting with you and will just go to bed and wake up in the AM and vote you if it’s more of this.

[MathBlade]

I find it mostly bluster.

It does nothing to convince me Frog is town or I should care.

I still think Ari/House + Frog is the solution.

I will vote Frogger in the Am.

[MathBlade]

math, how did you go from thinking i am 100% a scumfuck to not even including me in solves?

It was more a gradual progression.
I started trying to figure out who your buddy would be but then realized no matter how I sliced it I was trying to force a round peg in a square hole so either I had a major key element in the game state wrong or you wrong.

So I issued a challenge to you/Ari/House to take charge since you all townread each other.

No one really did which told me that either they weren’t comfortable in their reads or scum without a planned narrative/agenda yet. Everyone wanted Frog and Andres which means likely only one of them was scum.

Then the rest from there.

[MathBlade]

Only one or none of them*

[MathBlade]

Since they had no agenda issue the challenge for can’t bus can’t not bus.

Ari seems to be taking the bus side if scum
And House is taking the not bus option if scum

(Not as fleshed out but thoughts ish)

If Frogger flips roleblocker / BP then probably means more House
If Frogger flips more doc or something that doesn’t interact with vig then Ari

[MathBlade]

My biggest concern Frogger town will mean a reread over night.

I don’t think Frogger is as no one has given a reason Frogger is town which means the elim has been decided long before I did a lot of things. Kinda maybe points to Ari?

Not sure.

I want to see what he flips.

[MathBlade]

I guess in short is it possible Datisi Frogger, sure?

But I don’t see it and if Frogger is scum I likely won’t be alive to make that call if both House and Ari are wrong.

[MathBlade]

My biggest concern Frogger town will mean a reread over night.

I don’t think Frogger is as no one has given a reason Frogger is town which means the elim has been decided long before I did a lot of things. Kinda maybe points to Ari?

Not sure.

I want to see what he flips.

my issue is that i can't tell between "nobody is defending him, so scum don't want to stop the town wagon" and "nobody is defending him, the last scum doesn't want to look like shit on his flip".

and also that otherwise i have no clue who else is supposed to be scum in this game. but yeah. we'll burn that bridge when we get to it, i guess.

Well if frogger is scum with datisi you will be alive at elo to make the decision mb

Unlikely.

Assuming Frogger scum dies tonight
Then for simplicity assume SS can’t shoot or RB
Then we have one of SS (more likely) or IV dies

Then SS/IV + me => Town block
Vs PoE (Ari/Datisi/House/Andres)

Assume a miselim in Ari/Datisi/House/Andres.
Night comes IV dies.
This leaves me + PoE of three.
Unless I am absolutely certain I no elim there and force it.
I haven’t always had the best track record.

If Frogger is scum then I work with the remainder SS/IV on a solve.

[MathBlade]

house is kind of defending frogster no?

Nah he’s being stubborn and doesn’t want Frog because I scumread him.

[MathBlade]

My biggest concern Frogger town will mean a reread over night.

I don’t think Frogger is as no one has given a reason Frogger is town which means the elim has been decided long before I did a lot of things. Kinda maybe points to Ari?

Not sure.

I want to see what he flips.

my issue is that i can't tell between "nobody is defending him, so scum don't want to stop the town wagon" and "nobody is defending him, the last scum doesn't want to look like shit on his flip".

and also that otherwise i have no clue who else is supposed to be scum in this game. but yeah. we'll burn that bridge when we get to it, i guess.

I think between you House and Ari the three of you know each other too well to all three be stumped with I dunno.

[MathBlade]

house and i have one completed game together, and i don't remember the two of them ever playing together (so if they did, likely not much) so what gives the impression we know each other too well?

Because I think you’re so and so and so and so has played with House a lot. And leaving it at so and so to avoid outing. You may not use meta to avoid outing your alt but I would expect a read of some sort.

You and Ari flirt a lot so some personal connection there.

[MathBlade]

Take me and Titus for example
We don’t always read each other the best
But we do eventually have opinions

The whole crew has just been a bit too “meh” for my tastes

[MathBlade]

Because I think you’re so and so and so and so has played with House a lot.

gonna have to disappoint, sorry. that one game where house replaced in is the only completed game i have played with him across any and all of my accounts.

Interesting then (redacted) was incorrect when they said you where (so and so)
Fun. Unless I am also misremembering games at 2am

Everyone knows memories are perfect then /s

[MathBlade]

Because I think you’re so and so and so and so has played with House a lot.

gonna have to disappoint, sorry. that one game where house replaced in is the only completed game i have played with him across any and all of my accounts.

Interesting then (redacted) was incorrect when they said you were (so and so)
Fun. Unless I am also misremembering games at 2am

Everyone knows memories are perfect then /s

Ebwop grammar errors annoy me

[MathBlade]

you should not let frog be the reason you don't make a post though.

I really think it’s just Frogger here.

I think that on the off chance Frogger is town (rare) it’s Ari + Datisi and Frogger is right.

The votes support both narratives but I think with the quick hammer from Frog on D2 we need to elim Frogger first.

I can’t shake it out of my head that Ari or House planned that spam fest maybe Ari

VOTE: Frogger

[MathBlade]

Forgiven. Whatever you’re alignment you are desperate.

I think this is scum desperation and trying to muddy the waters on a buddy.

I kinda lean Ari as your buddy but with the PoE as it is I think you’re the best elim as if you are town I want you nowhere near elo due to your mislimabilitu in that case.

[MathBlade]

Frogger is at E-1

[MathBlade]

Frogsterking (3): Andresvmb, Datisi, Aristeia

Math did you really just join a wagon with

this

composition smh

Yes I did.

Because I think it’s either House Frogger Ari Frogger or Ari Datisi

Frogger’s flip solves the game and doesn’t give scum an out.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think Andres is scum here, and the equity for a bus on Andres is low

It’s much higher on Frog

So since Andres wasn’t pushed hard he’s likely not a miselim and scum get nothing out of it.

[MathBlade]

s_s: does absolutely nothing, with iv and math also doing nothing

people in the poe: vote

s_s: surprised pikachu face

I'm specifically calling Math out there for voting alongside the entire PoE. You can vote as you wish.

Call me out all you wish.

I think the Frogger slot is the best elim today.

[MathBlade]

Oh and if Frogger is town (I doubt it) then I probably want Datisi first if SS is alive.

[MathBlade]

I don’t think Andres is scum here, and the equity for a bus on Andres is low

It’s much higher on Frog

So since Andres wasn’t pushed hard he’s likely not a miselim and scum get nothing out of it.

i have no clue what this post means

It is my explanation for why I vote Frogger with this wagon composition.

[MathBlade]

by your logic, any vote we agree on is going to be bad because it's necessary that the entire poe agrees on it because y'all are twiddling your thumbs.

yes, that's part of how you can sort people in a situation like this. wait for them to agree, and it will be sure to be on a bad option

I disagree. I pointed out the dilemma earlier. I think you’re assuming scum chose the no bus option of that dilemma.

[MathBlade]

gladiate: mathblade

I am only active in this game and would be nice to know who you are. Guessing Frogger?

[MathBlade]

?? What player slot are you Nero?

[MathBlade]

I don’t think Andres is scum here, and the equity for a bus on Andres is low

It’s much higher on Frog

So since Andres wasn’t pushed hard he’s likely not a miselim and scum get nothing out of it.

House/Ari/Datisi had complete thread control for a few days and did nothing with it.

Yet all three scumread Andres. They don’t really get anything for a bus there as there’s no case except inactive so if Andres was scum there’s no bus cred. Since there’s no bus cred and whoever is scum in that trio at best only sat a vote while pushing elsewhere it’s much more likely Andres is town.

With Andres being town we have a few options

House is being an OMGUS idiot or scum
Ari is well played scum or doesn’t want to effort
Datisi is well defended scum or doesn’t need to effort

When pressured Ari voted Frogger
This means that if she’s town she believes it and if she is scum she believes she needs to bus.

Makes Frogger, now Nero a good elim combined with all the scummy shit the slot has done

[MathBlade]

house is kind of defending frogster no?

Nah he’s being stubborn and doesn’t want Frog because I scumread him.

Talking like you know I'm town is weird when you're keeping me in your supposed solve.

This isn’t me talking to you like I know you’re town.

This statement is true of both alignments.

[MathBlade]

Are you arguing that my slot was getting bussed?

I am arguing your slot was being bussed or it’s Datisi + Ari or Datisi + SS yes.

My primary solve is House + you or Ari + you though.

[MathBlade]

With SS and IV conf
And Ari and SS understand I am mechanically conf
There’s nothing the PoE can really do to earn cred except bus.

So they can either get a miselim today and prove my theories right
Or they can bus and hope to keep standing.

House as scum wouldn’t bus because he thinks he can win a wordsmith argument
Ari on the other hand is 50/50 because if you are scum with her she sees the dilemma but if you aren’t she’s in essence sacrificing credibility because she’s one of the few who can afford to lose it.

[MathBlade]

Yet all three scumread Andres.

i was never scumreading andres so idk

Hmmm I thought you had or expressed serious doubt.

Regardless the point still stands if you were scum with Frogger or House you could have easily tunneled Andres.

I think Andres is town from the lack of people doing anything to push him. Especially if House is also town.

The heat just doesn’t provide for Andres scum.

[MathBlade]

gladiate: mathblade

FUCK YEAH!

VOTE: Mathblade

I don't care that it's not a real gladiate. It's real to me.

It can’t be this is a normal.

Nero is continuing the theatrics of Frogger.

[MathBlade]

house is kind of defending frogster no?

Nah he’s being stubborn and doesn’t want Frog because I scumread him.

Talking like you know I'm town is weird when you're keeping me in your supposed solve.

This isn’t me talking to you like I know you’re town.

This statement is true of both alignments.

Bullshit.

If frog was scum as you pretend to believe, and if I was scum as you pretend to believe, you wanting frog dead isn't why I wouldn't want frog dead.

And "Nah"? If frog and I were scum together, any resistance to his wagon would be, at a minimum, a soft defense.

YOU KNOW I AM TOWN.

Incorrect. You’re making an argument based on how you phrase things.

Frogger should 100% be the elim today.

You don’t want me to actually be townread and perceived as smart if you’re scum and it’s you and Nero one of my prevailing theories.

You actually don’t have the numbers to miselim me so this is again for show.

[MathBlade]

Regardless the point still stands if you were scum with Frogger or House you could have easily tunneled Andres.

shouldn't this logic make andres scum? because he's a slot that's easy to push, yet nobody in the poe is doing it?

No. Because the pushers get no cred.

There’s no towncred from pushing an inactive slot if it flips scum.

Frogger on the other hand does provide cred as Frogger is scummy.

[MathBlade]

So for scum if Andres is town it’s a worse proposition because

SS IV Ari Me we never vote outside of you and House and Frogger.

That means scum likely lose however that goes down barring Ari scum.

So miselimming without towncred for scum is suicide

[MathBlade]

You actually don’t have the numbers to miselim me so this is again for show.

This. Is. A. Scum. Mindset.

Town cares about finding scum. Scum cares about finding lims.

Town cares about finding scum where it can possibly reside

There is no way you can miselim me without scum help or being scum yourself.

Three to four other people have reached the accurate and correct conclusion that I am town (Andres has strongly implied it) so yeah my strategy to cast a net like this is working.

I think Frogger is scum here and it’s a matter of you or Ari who with most likelu

[MathBlade]

So miselimming without towncred for scum is suicide

If you really believed that, I'd be a hard townread.

This is a fucking confession.

Incorrect, pushing against futility is a common scum ploy I have used before.

[MathBlade]

So miselimming without towncred for scum is suicide

If you really believed that, I'd be a hard townread.

This is a fucking confession.

And so would frogger/nero slot.

Frogger/Nero likely has been in theatrics since Ari voted him.

[MathBlade]

I'm not unvoting Mathblade until one of us are dead.

Let's test that futility claim.

Fine by me.
I will stay on Nero as that’s the right thing to do.

[MathBlade]

The way I figure is if you’re gonna keep your vote on me at least you’re not keeping it on a viable miselim so it won’t hurt anything.

[MathBlade]

I'm not unvoting Mathblade until one of us are dead.

Let's test that futility claim.

Fine by me.
I will stay on Nero as that’s the right thing to do.

For your agenda.

Frog has been bleeding town and now you're stuck.

Lol

Frogger has done no such thing.

Frogger just screamed like a child throwing a tantrum reaching for anything.

[MathBlade]

Now Math is forced to either kill me tonight as his most vocal pusher (over confirmed town, if he thinks he can keep them in line), or push me tomorrow to keep me out of F3.

Good luck pushing me, Math.

Let me ask you this:

Why does Nero immediately gladiate me unless he’s being coached by scum I have to die?

A Townie rep in is “Hey haven’t read what’s the situation”

[MathBlade]

Oh, we're still at 8.

Lol. Derp.

Correct.

I won’t vote for me
Andres won’t vote for me as he sees I am town
SS won’t vote for me as my D1 claim is backed up by a gunsmith existing
Ari won’t vote for me based on her own words because mech clear
I won’t vote for me.
It’s likely IV won’t vote for me but that slot needs a replace or post.

The absolute best you could do is yourself Frogger and Datisi.

If you had any sort of case or argument and are town scum would have changed their minds long long ago.

[MathBlade]

I could easily argue that scum Nero would likely have info on a safer player to push than the one lying about being confirmed town that has too many others duped to get voted out.

You could argue it and we’d laugh at you.

The fact Nero gladiated anyone on replace in means he was told by scumchat to do so or was reading the game before replace in.

Pretty sure no one reads a game of this length that their not in and not in the spectator group for fun.
Especially not Nero who complains about thread length

It’s theatrics

[MathBlade]

lol, I "gladiated" you b/c I'm showing my displeasure with your slot.

Hmmmm displeasure at my slot ?

How exactly do you have displeasure?

Go on.

[MathBlade]

Damn those crickets lmao

Gonna start some overtime I have to do here in a bit.

[MathBlade]

gladiate: mathblade

So you gladiated me based on posts made after the gladiate?

That makes so much sense! /s

[MathBlade]

Like seriously I am laughing so hard my bed is shaking.

[MathBlade]

Then there’s also moon logic
Where I reach the right conclusion but can’t translate to regular people ese.

But yeah the gladiate based on displeasure of my slot based on posts after the gladiate is comedic gold like I can’t.

I am laughing so hard right now.

[MathBlade]

for someone named mathblade you sure do stink at math.

3545 comes before 3557.

3596 is adding a reason why I dislike your slot which is what dats asked.

Your post is after the gladiate

So again what caused you so much displeasure

C’mon dude

This is theatrics and you and I both know it.

Continuing to dignify this with a response is ridiculous.

[MathBlade]

Frogger’s flip solves the game and doesn’t give scum an out.

IT CREATES PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST. IT MAKES BIGGOTRY GO AWAY. IT GIVES OUT FREE ELECTRIC CARS. NOTHING BAD CAN HAPPEN, I PROMISE YOU.

I swear this is like straight-up scum logic.

I think Andres is town from the lack of people doing anything to push him.

this is a shitty reason.

Andre has been pushed in like every game I've been in with him...I'm not really saying that he's necessarily scummy for not being pushed but it is a lil' odd to me when he's normally so easily pushed.

but your lack of push=town is bonkers.

you two could at least read...

3563 does. That’s my point.

[MathBlade]

gladiate: mathblade

This is 100% your first post of the game

Either A scum chat told you to push me
Or B you decided you’re going to read a 3500 ish post game for the lolz without prompting.

Like this is hilarious I am going to work now. Laterz.

[MathBlade]

you caught me, I was reading this game. I mean I haven't read anything but the last few pages so its not like I've read the whole game

Lol I doubt it

If you were you’d see that I am a D1 backup vig with IV gunsmith and SS backing up I am likely town in the last few pages in my argument with House

Town you would go “Damn Math is mech clear I hate how annoying that is better see what the fuck is up with that”

[MathBlade]

you caught me, I was reading this game. I mean I haven't read anything but the last few pages so its not like I've read the whole game

Lol I doubt it

If you were you’d see that I am a D1 backup vig with IV gunsmith and SS backing up I am likely town in the last few pages in my argument with House

Town you would go “Damn Math is mech clear I hate how annoying that is better see what the fuck is up with that”

N1 backup vig claimed D1 thoughts merged.

[MathBlade]

last time I was in a game with a claim of backup vig they were scum....

i think you and house were there too

So yes I inherited A50’s body and possessed him just to make a fake claim
Then replaced into the slot!

Brilliant! /s

And again you wouldn’t have had to.
Me saying I was mech clear was in the last few pages

[MathBlade]

OK.. maybe I can elaborate a little bit: I am a N1 backup of a certain role. Otherwise I'm powerless. Thus to a Nea/VT Cop I am more of a bloody Miller. I am Informed of the Role I am a backup to, but if the mod is trolling the role could maybe not be in play, thus I'm just a Named Townie. (and THUS the uncertainty)

VP Baltar also checked me and didn’t die.

A gunsmith in this setup exists unless you want to argue IV scum.

I mean I needed the laughs this early. Thank you.

[MathBlade]

SS is literally the vig I am the backup of barring Datisi + SS but that is very very unlikely.

[MathBlade]

that's very convenient. Who claimed first?

A50 claimed first
VP claimed second
IV claimed third
SS claimed fourth at which point House rescinded vig claim.

[MathBlade]

I am at the bar and not reading the thread tonight. In case it wasn't clear, Mathblade is confirmed town. Also, we are not yeeting me today.

[MathBlade]

has there been a massclaim? What are the claims?

OutWorldER, Vanilla Townie, killed Night 2
VP Baltar, Town Weak Disloyal Fruit Vendor, killed Night 2

how did VP die?

The most likely way is scum NK and SS vigged Outworlder
The only way this did not happen is SS+Datisi exactly and VP visited Datisi like a possible crumb I found earlier

[MathBlade]

Claims are everyone is VT except
SS Vig
Me N1 backup vig
IV even night gunsmith who checked SS

[MathBlade]

I don’t think the game is just N1 backup vig and a weak fruitvendor
So mechanics wise SS+Datisi is pretty much not a thing.

[MathBlade]

And gunsmith *

[MathBlade]

Claims are everyone is VT except
SS Vig
Me N1 backup vig
IV even night gunsmith who checked SS

And VP weak Hider confirmed town.

Which Math is leaving out because he knows that's a lot of town power, until he can conveniently use it to fake a clear on himself.

Not hider fruitvendor

And it’s not.

[MathBlade]

Whatevs.

My scum buddies told me to get the claim wrong, obv.

Nah you’ve been told by enough people to know you’re being an illogical player.

It’s either yourself intentionally as scum or you not caring about what anyone else says.

[MathBlade]

Whatevs.

My scum buddies told me to get the claim wrong, obv.

Nah you’ve been told by enough people to know you’re being an illogical player.

It’s either yourself intentionally as scum or you not caring about what anyone else says.

My memory is shit.

Possible but you’re House.

You pushing against Ari,Andres, and SS screams intentional vendetta or stuck in a tunnel which is why I am deliberately trying to avoid interacting with you so you have to interact with them.

[MathBlade]

watch it be house and dats

House and Datisi is incredibly unlikely pairing.

I suggest you read the game or at least look at the VCs for why.

[MathBlade]

If I have to assume you town
Ari + Datisi
Or
House + Andres (as much as I don’t think this is valid)

It’s at least more valid than House + Datisi

[MathBlade]

If you’re town you owe it to your slot to actually try

Because I think you’re just scum here and your intro does you no favors.

[MathBlade]

get over yourself. So I thought you were scummy, just b/c I thought you were scummy doesn't make me scum.

Correct. It’s your predecessor + your entrance together.

Your predecessor’s play is terrible.

[MathBlade]

my entrance was fine, you are just sore I thought you were scum until the setup was explained.

Agreed to disagree.

Would rather you focus on reading the game and coming up with a viable conclusion if you’re town
And a good reason not to turbo yeet your slot

[MathBlade]

Agreed it is strange but it’s House.

Possible he+you is just defeated and he knows it?

Or maybe he has RL?

I don’t think I am playing against wincon.
I always push the person I find most likely to be scum.

If you think he is scum, then see if your conclusion is valid.

Give me a reason to believe your slot is town.

[MathBlade]

but srs House your math vote is bad, like unless someone is fakeclaiming a pr it seems like there are too few without him. Why is he scum?

This doesn’t answer the question asked House.

[MathBlade]

VP announcing his A50 visit would have likely led scum to kill VP if A50 was town, or block him if A50 is scum.

All this town power, you think scum has no counter?

Get the fuck outta here.

There is actually very little

There’s a role that gets one check and is dead either way pretty much every time.

And even night invest that gets guilties on every PR except the one that’s going to die anyway.

No protectives to balance the death.

Yes it’s possible scum have a roleblocker or doctor or BP, it’s probable

You still didn’t answer the question about the number of PRs if I am not one.

[MathBlade]

If you keep this up House you’re likely to be policied if people don’t want Nero.

I’d rather Nero here. Almost every freaking player in the game has told you you’re wrong.

If you’re town you need to slot me in as town or at least pretend to here.

[MathBlade]

you guys need to chill. They have medicine for that these days.

Please don’t suggest shit like this.

[MathBlade]

If I have to guess Frogger is scum doctor for a fake scum inno.

That’s how I would balance this mechanically.

[MathBlade]

The reason scum don’t bus Nero is because then it confirms the setup that my slot is indeed the fake guilty

House can’t push me anymore and neither can Ari or anyone else

Then we get proven my replace in theory was right and there’s a scum in House/Ari/Dat.

[MathBlade]

wrong, frogger was a vt.

Prove it then. Do something Townie.

[MathBlade]

why are you always this horrible?

I am not.

The PoE was is and will be in you five (House/Ari/Datisi/Andres/you)

Literally every mechanical / VCA idea I have had panned out.

I am only asking you to read the game or skim or something and provide a case to a viable pair.

[MathBlade]

I have been intentionally forcing people to acknowledge the PoE and push within it. My job as conf town is to ensure we get a scum in the PoE that is likely scum. Every solve must be in that PoE unless it’s SS + Datisi.

[MathBlade]

this game is turning into another "every time the game gets worse, have a shot" game

It’s really not.
It’s the expected result of cornered scum.

They HAVE to get two miselims in 5
It’s disheartening to scum so they lash out. It’s pretty typical of caught scum.

House Frogger And Ari (the emotional not the PoE) have all done it to some extent.

As scum it would be hella easy to remove that pressure but I am not.

[MathBlade]

its cute that you think you are a better player than you really are

It’s cute that you think insulting me makes me bad this game.

[MathBlade]

you have wagoned nothing but town this game and practically every game we've played in

I did not wagon Skitter.
I joined her out of policy.

The only real wagon I have lead arguably is on you.

I have pushed Ari and Dat and neither have taken off.

So try again?

You keep insulting rather than working with me to find scum does nothing to make me not want you.

[MathBlade]

errr dats

And you’ve done nothing to convince me it’s Dats.

I actually think you think House is scum based on your posting.

[MathBlade]

I have pushed Ari and

Dat

and neither have taken off.

Guess who is voting dats

THIS GUY

if you think he's scum vote him instead of venge vote me b/c dared to call you scum when I wasn't fully caught up.

I used to.
I do not anymore.

[MathBlade]

I actually think you think House is scum based on your posting.

Well I don't think his vote makes a ton of sense and I'm really suprised that you aren't all over that but again you're venge voting me so...

If I was venge voting I would be voting House. I voted you before you repped in and it hasn’t changed.

I think you make sense for almost every PoE I have.

It’s that simple.

[MathBlade]

Thats e-1

[MathBlade]

Doubt it. Town doesn’t self hammer himself.

[MathBlade]

Consider me V/LA for me not MS standards work project is in high gear

If you’ve answered this I will see it late tonight/early tomorrow

House -> What do you make of SS being shot rather than IV? Given that you said you expected IV to be shot?
Datisi -> What do you make of Nero suspecting you so much he self hammered for that?
Ari -> Given that one of House/Datisi is required from your perspective what is your current thought process and why?
Andres -> Would love to see activity out of you, what are your thoughts?

[MathBlade]

IV would also love thoughts when you can.

[MathBlade]

What do you make of Nero suspecting you so much he self hammered for that?

absolutely nothing, considering he did not bother to explain anything and just self-hammered. sucks to suck i guess?

What is your solve looking like right now?

[MathBlade]

I guess explain to me why you shouldn’t be elimmed.

It looks like House tried to fake claim vig to protect you from a guilty far as I can tell.

I don’t want that to be the case here but Nero self hammering holds a lot of weight for you being scum.

[MathBlade]

House -> What do you make of SS being shot rather than IV? Given that you said you expected IV to be shot?

I was just trying to buy S_S another night.

Scum's hand is pretty much forced to kill iv if he's town tonight, especially if we hit scum today.

If we mislim today, scum can try to claim any guilty is a scum gambit by iv to secure the game winning mislim, so it's a tossup if iv gets killed tonight if we mislim.

I feel like I'm making more sense now, correct me if I'm wrong.

Miselimming at 6 alive with 2 scum (assumed as a mini with 2 scum total is bad) we lose, so this assumes we hit a scum or no elim.

I think the kill isn’t clear.
If scum don’t have a roleblocker or a way to fuck with reads then IV is the clear kill. The alternative is they risk him clearing someone or a guilty which would make the game hyper focused.

If they do have a way, then they might kill me or IV. I think IV would be the kill scum make if they think I can be manipulated or just bad reads.

Without knowing if scum have a roleblocker or not I am not sure.

[MathBlade]

I guess explain to me why you shouldn’t be elimmed.

At this point, I no longer care.

I'm not going to continue to repeat myself on how fucking stupid the notion that I'm scum is.

I'm just going to plan my future accordingly if you lack the sense to see it for yourself.

That was to Datisi

[MathBlade]

Im very detached from this game rn sorry

I am honestly just down to sheep the other clear at this point, I just don’t really have the time to wade through all these pages

I do not or I probably would have shot Ari N2 tbh.

I was just gonna sheep you.

So I guess we gotta work together on it. Late tonight I will probably thought spew.

[MathBlade]

Okay first:

We’re not no limming simply based on Andres and Ari’s comments.

I townread IV, IV townreads me.

There’s no way IV is scum there’s no reason to prove it.

I never vote IV and town shouldn’t either.

If you have a case for me or IV scum now is the time to say it or forever hold your peace.

[MathBlade]

if everyone is certain that IV is town I don't see why we can't just have IV post final thoughts and then no-lim to get confirmation than IV is town.

to clarify.

if IV's contribution to this game is immensely important and we should sheep IV or w/e.

We can simply discuss with IV while he is still alive - reach a consensus with IV, then no lim to

confirm that IV is town

If IV gets shot at night, we can simply follow the prior consensus we reached with IV; it is functionally equivalent to just listening to IV today and voting out a player that he wants without the risk of being blindsided by some NRG balance shenanigans.

if everyone is certain that IV is town I don't see why we can't just have IV post final thoughts and then no-lim to get confirmation than IV is town.

Whatever works.

This is bad mechanics. At a minimum IV and I should use this time to sync up.

There’s two conf town here there’s no way we elim and go to one and same issue.

Then if Ari is scum that tips her hand she wants to push IV not in the PoE that’s been accurate since D2. I should be policy elimming Ari for this but considering we have a town self hammerer who never wanted to case and a town player who voted an inno because lolz rushing this isn’t the best idea.

[MathBlade]

I think I want everyone especially Ari to put their top team of two down, no explanations. This helped me catch the exact scum team in an alt game and who knows it might work here.

[MathBlade]

I still have some wordy word wall stuff to do but I just finished a long ass day at work so gonna take it slow since we have time and IV is still here.

[MathBlade]

I am saying if we come to a conclusion on who to eliminate today.

There is no real difference between 4 of us voting that person today, and no-limming, making sure IV is town, and then 3 people voting that person tommorrow.

I do not trust the balance in this game because I feel we are already outside where this game would be balanced even if all claims were true.

And I don’t think that’s the case.
I think scum claimed VT like I goaded them to instead of their actual role like doctor or roleblocker.

This setup I feel is similar to an idea I discussed a long time ago with I think Cabd, I don’t remember who it was someone that was designed around having to listen to people rather than concrete breakable normal setups.

I am the Miller
SS is the PR but if forced to claim Vig on D2 can stop the scum kill on N2. It takes care of the protective.
What would balance this is an even night doctor.

It gives scum some defense against the vig and gunsmith but exposed to what is a one shot cop for all intents and purposes.

[MathBlade]

I think I want everyone especially Ari to put their top team of two down, no explanations. This helped me catch the exact scum team in an alt game and who knows it might work here.

for me it is Datisi/Andres

That is weird.

iv & Mathblade. Town is weak as hell if iv is scum.

Top two means who is scum House.

I think Ari has seen what I am asking

[MathBlade]

Towards that end, I think scum would either be split or on the tail end of that IV push unless a buddy was being pushed or some other reason.

Especially if they want to kill me and bus a buddy and leave room for a fake inno from IV.

[MathBlade]

I will have to look at the IV/SS wagon push that happened kinda simultaneously iirc.

[MathBlade]

I’m sorry about yesterday - I really am. I’m sad that Frogsterking not only replaced out, but went out in such a way. I don’t fault Nero Cain for self-hammering, since they were pushed to the extreme and I wouldn’t have wanted to spend too much time and effort trying to turn around the wagon on me at that stage.

I’ll state the obvious - a No Execution here is not sensible. Due to the mechanical claims that we have, it doesn’t make sense to No Vote only to lose the remaining claimed PR left. We need IV’s voice to help guide our thinking. I also don’t want to think too hard about Mathblade being Scum. Yeah sure, at times during the game I have wanted to reconsider my stance on this. But I can’t at this point in time go against what I really do think is a strong probability that they’re cleared, and lose due to extreme paranoia.

That leaves House / Aristeia / Datisi. If you wanted to build a Team from those three, I suppose a Datisi + Aristeia Team is more likely than a House + Datisi or House + Aristeia Team. But I gotta be honest, I’m annoyed at that solve. That means what, Aristeia and Datisi have been openly buddying each other as Scum practically the entire game, and refusing to strongly consider each other? It didn’t read like that to me when I first read through their posts. Datisi has also had me as Town a large majority of the game (despite us both being firmly in the POE). That would have had to have been White Knighting, which maybe? But it wasn’t necessary. Datisi could have stayed away from making any definitive statements about my alignment, and they certainly didn’t have to call the fight between Frogsterking and I TvT (leaving themselves open to then getting pushed). Now, I perceived yesterday that openly questioning the Gunsmith was a silly strategy from Scum. Today? I would imagine it feels necessary to have to try and open that door. So I’m not reading Aristeia’s comments in that direction in a positive light. That’s the first slot I will do a deep dive on.

This is the third player saying Datisi
*hmmmmm* thinking cap

[MathBlade]

I really really vibe with what Andres is saying today. Can you town more please Andres?

[MathBlade]

@Datisi -> If you’re online I would love your answer too.

[MathBlade]

I’ll state the obvious - a No Execution here is not sensible. Due to the mechanical claims that we have, it doesn’t make sense to No Vote only to lose the remaining claimed PR left. We need IV’s voice to help guide our thinking.

This line feels nonsensical to me because IV has not helped to guide our thinking at all this game.

This is not a nonsensical line if you actually understood what I meant (which obviously you could have asked about). Math has basically said a variation of this today as well, but you’re not accusing them of saying something nonsensical. That line doesn’t mean to say that IV has guided the Town this game

in previous days

. It just means that we should listen to them

today

.

Anyway, I’ll vote whatever Math + IV conclude is the right call then. That includes voting for myself if that’s the decision that’s arrived at. I haven’t read what I wanted to yet - but I did feel like I needed to respond to this nonsense.

Why would you be willing to vote yourself?

[MathBlade]

um if you're town voting for yourself is like literally game throwing?

I think I get what he’s getting at but I kinda want him to explain it a different way to be sure. Because if he is he’s thinking similar to me in another game and I think I can work with that.

[MathBlade]

ok you do your magic

More like resetting reads for the billionth time and slow crawl.

[MathBlade]

I’ll state the obvious - a No Execution here is not sensible. Due to the mechanical claims that we have, it doesn’t make sense to No Vote only to lose the remaining claimed PR left. We need IV’s voice to help guide our thinking.

This line feels nonsensical to me because IV has not helped to guide our thinking at all this game.

This is not a nonsensical line if you actually understood what I meant (which obviously you could have asked about). Math has basically said a variation of this today as well, but you’re not accusing them of saying something nonsensical. That line doesn’t mean to say that IV has guided the Town this game

in previous days

. It just means that we should listen to them

today

.

Anyway, I’ll vote whatever Math + IV conclude is the right call then. That includes voting for myself if that’s the decision that’s arrived at. I haven’t read what I wanted to yet - but I did feel like I needed to respond to this nonsense.

Why would you be willing to vote yourself?

It’s simple - I want to win. But I also understand that I can’t do what Frogsterking did. I can’t sit here and pollute the thread and kick and scream to avoid my execution for a loss (which has never happened at this stage of the game before) if both of the voices I think are far more likely to be Town are pushing in that direction. It is not realistic. I’m in the POE. My voice and arguments are going to be considered, but not fully taken at face value. For good reason. And I don’t want to use emotional arguments to defend my standing in the game.

You’re either town or are damn good at mirroring my thoughts when I replaced into a recent game.

So I think the only way you’re scum is with Datisi or Ari and not House because Ari referenced that game and Datisi iirc was in it but House wouldn’t know that game. You seem way too busy to go have looked up that game on your own if faking it.

So I think that eliminates Andres House as a team.

[MathBlade]

So if you and IV end up both thinking I’m the correct vote for today after thinking through it, then I don’t have the time to argue with the both of you. So you have to do your homework. The solution from my perspective seems somewhat straightforward. It sucks because I’ve defended both Aristeia and Datisi and now I’m having to completely reset my view of the game and try to argue against something I actually believed in for days. So it’s not like this is a fun exercise for me.

Well then let’s talk about it for a second.

On D2 and D3 I pushed Ari/Datisi for a good portion of those days.

What do you think happened there?

[MathBlade]

um if you're town voting for yourself is like literally game throwing?

You mean like that thing Nero did?

I agree this was horrible. But we’re not bringing the thread down into negativity here.

Report it (if you feel it was gamethrowing) and move on.

[MathBlade]

So if you and IV end up both thinking I’m the correct vote for today after thinking through it, then I don’t have the time to argue with the both of you. So you have to do your homework. The solution from my perspective seems somewhat straightforward. It sucks because I’ve defended both Aristeia and Datisi and now I’m having to completely reset my view of the game and try to argue against something I actually believed in for days. So it’s not like this is a fun exercise for me.

Well then let’s talk about it for a second.

On D2 and D3 I pushed Ari/Datisi for a good portion of those days.

What do you think happened there?

If you think about it strategically, the Frogsterking slot needed to die to arrive at a situation where the Scum had a shot at winning the game at this stage. Frogsterking was a massive proponent of having Datisi executed, and switched their view of the game to argue against Aristeia. That clearly was a huge issue for the Team. Because Frogsterking was pushing me hard and that was probably okay for a bit, but then once Frogsterking sort of switched their perspective, they were buried.

Uhm? Not what I asked?

I agree Frogger needed to be elimmed for scum I just think it was one of the few miselims they had to avoid eating their own snake.

Can you please reread the question?

[MathBlade]

I don't think VPB claimed PR if that's what you think he did

No, but he softed the shit out of it.

i really REALLY don't think baltar of either alignment goes from "kill a50" to "a50 is conftown" without some sort of mech info, and i don't think this is exactly rocket surgery for scum to figure out either, which is why i'm fine talking about it with this level of openness

Sure, let's be absolutely clear: i received information last night. A50 is town. I won't be discussing the way that information came to me because scum trying to actually figure it out is an exercise in futility. I chose to release said info to stop a wasted discussion about a50 and to completely flip the script on any narratives scum wanted to open today with.

The fact multiple people came out today with "let's sheep Koba, vote:vp!" shows scum could have easily come into today pushing a couple easy misyeets had I not turned that plan on its head.

Agreed. Ari fits the bill as busser and opening up on VFP and has seemingly been trying to pocket Dat. I want to see more from Ari.

Like I kinda feel an Ari/Andres flip.

Have you actually read the game mathblade?

I mean on D2 I was feeling you and Ari. Ari immediately asked me if I read and kept saying how mafia isn’t probability.

On D3 I was suspicious of Dat. And got similar laughter (or teasing or what not) for that suspicion.

What do you make of those events?

[MathBlade]

Yes it’s an open ended untargeted question. How unMathy of me

[MathBlade]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

[MathBlade]

If you think about it strategically, the Frogsterking slot needed to die to arrive at a situation where the Scum had a shot at winning the game at this stage. Frogsterking was a massive proponent of having Datisi executed, and switched their view of the game to argue against Aristeia. That clearly was a huge issue for the Team. Because Frogsterking was pushing me hard and that was probably okay for a bit, but then once Frogsterking sort of switched their perspective, they were buried.

what's your 2 scum solve again?

Garcia since it’s fact only and I quoted it recently You and Datisi.

[MathBlade]

house is town

if house is fakeclaiming and willing to throw the game though and IV isn't really a mason ill be really pissed

\

On thing is for sure RTP is probably pissed. *chuckle*

[MathBlade]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

Ari fits nicely in my pocket and gives me warm fuzzies.

Dats has little pointy things that jab me in the leg when I try to put them in my pocket.

I don't trust anyone that is supposedly "zomgexcellent" at endgame but doesn't contribute at all UNTIL endgame.

Can you describe why Ari fits into your pocket and warm fuzzies?

I am kinda scared she might have you tribbled.

[MathBlade]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

Ari fits nicely in my pocket and gives me warm fuzzies.

Dats has little pointy things that jab me in the leg when I try to put them in my pocket.

I don't trust anyone that is supposedly "zomgexcellent" at endgame but doesn't contribute at all UNTIL endgame.

Can you describe why Ari fits into your pocket and warm fuzzies?

I am kinda scared she might have you tribbled.

I didn't say I was in hers.

I try to pocket players as both alignments. Scum tend to be more apprehensive of my blatant pocket attempts, in my experience.

Ugh let me try this again.

Can you be more concrete in why you townread Ari?

[MathBlade]

@House -> Do you townread Ari? Or do you think Dat+Andres is most likely? Why do you feel how you do?

Ari fits nicely in my pocket and gives me warm fuzzies.

Dats has little pointy things that jab me in the leg when I try to put them in my pocket.

I don't trust anyone that is supposedly "zomgexcellent" at endgame but doesn't contribute at all UNTIL endgame.

Can you describe why Ari fits into your pocket and warm fuzzies?

I am kinda scared she might have you tribbled.

I didn't say I was in hers.

I try to pocket players as both alignments. Scum tend to be more apprehensive of my blatant pocket attempts, in my experience.

Ugh let me try this again.

Can you be more concrete in why you townread Ari?

Not that she townreads me, someone who would be easy to get mislimmed, but that she can and does support it in a way that provides an active obstacle TO my elimination.

Kinda like MorningTweet did in the game we were in together. Though the 2 scenarios are obviously not identical, I still get the same vibes.

Looking beyond the, "ooh, this LOOKS bad" and deducing the motives behind my play is ++ town to me.

I don’t remember this game and it’s late.

Can you give me a title or something?

[MathBlade]

That works! Just wanted something to look up so I could find the game

Lol that game was hilarious

Almost won that …almost

[MathBlade]

Ari why do you townread House?

[MathBlade]

That works! Just wanted something to look up so I could find the game

Lol that game was hilarious

Almost won that …almost

Wrong game!

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=87652

Ooh cool

[MathBlade]

I had another dumb thought.

What if scum didn’t know who their buddy was?

And this is goon, goon, traitor?

Who thinks that’s dumb?

[MathBlade]

I had another dumb thought.

What if scum didn’t know who their buddy was?

And this is goon, goon, traitor?

Who thinks that’s dumb?

I said this already

Yes. So apparently you don’t think it’s dumb.

I am asking for who thinks it is dumb.

[MathBlade]

I think it would explain why our PRs are so bad

It also would give the fake inno I was thinking with cop.

Traitors are also immune to GS.

But they also lose if their main honcho gets elimmed

So that head honcho player would be deep wolfed.

[MathBlade]

I think it would explain why our PRs are so bad

It also would give the fake inno I was thinking with gunsmith like cop

Traitors are also immune to GS.

But they also lose if their main honcho gets elimmed

So that head honcho player would be deep wolfed.

Ugh I can’t type

[MathBlade]

Vote Count 1.08

Laplacian (7):

Reformed Toxic Player, Andresvmb, Datisi, Aristeia, House, Frogsterking, Almost50

Almost50 (2):

VP Baltar, skitter30

innocentvillager (1):

OutWorldER

Frogsterking (1):

Laplacian

Datisi (1):

innocentvillager

Not Voting (1):

Something_Smart

With 13 alive, it took 7 to eliminate.

In traitor world we’d be looking more at Ari/House traitor and main goon combo.

[MathBlade]

I swear, just stay tf away from me.

I am doing my job in considering every world.

Considering you just put out the “wrong game” where Morning Tweet was a traitor it’s worth a random dive.

[MathBlade]

I appreciate your efforts Mathblade

The thing is every way I slice it you’re coming up scum.

Even when I try to force you town.

I don’t know if you would appreciate that tbh,

[MathBlade]

See on D1 all the scum would know Lap is scum. And all the PoE is close together. It’s a very very weird VCA.

[MathBlade]

I swear, just stay tf away from me.

I am doing my job in considering every world.

Considering you just put out the “wrong game” where Morning Tweet was a traitor it’s worth a random dive.

Yet you completely ignore the right one.

So much for considering every world.

I haven’t made a decision on any one
I am asking questions that’s all

[MathBlade]

I think as long as you try your best I am fine with the result

My top theory is Andres traitor and you main wolf.
Either that or Andres traitor Datisi main wolf

Or in a traditional scum world you + House
Or you + Datisi

Can you convince me you’re town here?

[MathBlade]

Can you convince me you’re town here?

you can ask me anything you would like to ask me that you think would be helpful to you solving me correctly

What do you think happened D1 in a you town world?
What were scum doing?

[MathBlade]

Can you convince me you’re town here?

you can ask me anything you would like to ask me that you think would be helpful to you solving me correctly

What do you think happened D1 in a you town world?
What were scum doing?

Laplacian is a relatively inexperienced newb scum, he froze and told his partners to bus him or just ghosted entirely.

How does that fit with traitor scum?

[MathBlade]

it means you are an easy elimination because you are naturally scummy when town.

Frog is asking what the odds are that you are a townie being run up for being scummy rather than a mafia being run up.

What I thought, thanks.

[MathBlade]

if someone is bad at playing scum or inexperienced and awkward, it doesn't really matter which scum card they get dealt

It kind of does though.

I am trying to figure out why a traitor would hop on and bus, unless they thought the other buddy could carry.

[MathBlade]

if someone is bad at playing scum or inexperienced and awkward, it doesn't really matter which scum card they get dealt

It kind of does though.

I am trying to figure out why a traitor would hop on and bus, unless they thought the other buddy could carry.

we don't know for sure if there is a traitor

but if a mafia player is going down for sure I don't see why the traitor wouldn't bus.

I guess it depends on for sure though? It would point to you or House scum as you’re on the back in that world.

Unless you want to argue scum traitor bussed lap with no good reason?

[MathBlade]

See it matters because it’s changes who scum is.

If scum bussed and we have a goon doctor combo you and Andres or you and Datisi become likely
Andres traitor doesn’t fit with VCA
And I don’t see that matching play with him being sussed by everyone
I think a traitor wouldn’t keep goon Andresnin their PoE

So something isn’t adding up

[MathBlade]

Ari can you pitch me a theory that matches D1? Like use people and state what strategy they had please? Include traitor/regular goon please

[MathBlade]

i saw that there was a question on which team we all find most likely and my answer would have to be ari+andres because i'm still not sure i actually see scum!house here but the game is fking stupid so who knows.

i'll be properly reading in a few hours, if there's any other urgent q's, pls quote

So yeah Andres is also 3
Ari is 2
You’re 3
House 0

Hmmmm

[MathBlade]

Vote Count 1.06

Laplacian (5):

Reformed Toxic Player,Frogsterking, Andresvmb, Datisi, Aristeia

Almost50 (3):

VP Baltar, House, skitter30

innocentvillager (1):

OutWorldER

Frogsterking (1):

Laplacian

Datisi (1):

innocentvillager

Not Voting (2):

Almost50, Something_Smart

With 13 alive, it's 7 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is February 5 at 10:00 PM EST.

These are too close together to be traitor.

If Dat + Andres then traitor would be front loaded which makes no sense to me

They’d have to be goon doctor

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-02-05 23:00:00)

[MathBlade]

well I think we all agree house is town so can we put him as town?

if we are all wrong we lose together

No. There’s still worlds he is possible scum

I just don’t think he’s most probably atm

[MathBlade]

Andres traitor doesn’t fit with VCA

Doesn't mean much when he's been MIA the entire game.

Doesn’t matter. Andres is still competent scum. He’d leave a vote inactive as traitor rather than do that.

[MathBlade]

Almost50 (3): VP Baltar, House, skitter30

hmm. i'm thinking back to my counterwagon theory. how it was likely there was scum on the counterwagon. i'd have to reread d1 though to see if i missed anything, since "scum tried to cw to save lapla" doesn't go well with "scum fakecliamed mason to stop a different cw" >_>

The only way I think it makes sense is House traitor or House wanting to die or attract attention.

I don’t understand House most of the time anyway.

[MathBlade]

I think laplacian wagon is pure rn btw

This is not true so if we assume House town (for argument only not saying the whole game) then we still know this wagon wasn’t pure. So scum pocketed RTP.

[MathBlade]

Almost50 (3): VP Baltar, House, skitter30

hmm. i'm thinking back to my counterwagon theory. how it was likely there was scum on the counterwagon. i'd have to reread d1 though to see if i missed anything, since "scum tried to cw to save lapla" doesn't go well with "scum fakecliamed mason to stop a different cw" >_>

The only way I think it makes sense is House traitor or House wanting to die or attract attention.

I don’t understand House most of the time anyway.

Cool. So why did I fake claim vig as scum on d2 when a real vig never counterclaims during the day and just shoots the fake claimer?

I don’t know. Maybe informed 1 shot vig? Fake claiming vig is kinda dumb as town and you lead town down a wild goose chase when I thought something was fishy about you. I don’t understand you so trying to just makes me more confused honestly .

[MathBlade]

a50 is the only null methinks

rofl mainslipping

Ari
I was meaning that scum would have the informed tag and be told that there is a one shot vig in the setup.

And okay scum knew that Koba was RTP here or sooner.

[MathBlade]

my solve has been vp/iv/laplacian for a while now :3 I largely townread everyone else here

Your "solve" is 66.666666666667% wrong.

Glass houses & whatnot.

Help.

This makes me hella paranoid

[MathBlade]

And okay scum knew that Koba was RTP here or sooner.

both andres and i knew who they were from before, if that's important to your calculations

It’s more I am looking for scum buddying Koba because their solve was mostly bad.

[MathBlade]

Definitely an experienced scum move. Prop up bad town, kill them, coast on a few elims.

[MathBlade]

Definitely an experienced scum move. Prop up bad town, kill them, coast on a few elims.

Experienced scum also tell players how exactly wrong their "solve" is too, amirite?

Not sure what this means.

Datisi can you explain D1 for me with your solves?

[MathBlade]

if you're saying "just go from memory" then my solve is math/iv because i still think that none of house/ari/andres votes make any sense as bus votes, which is obviously contrary to reality so y'know

Please answer that question when you can.

[MathBlade]

give me... 6 hours tops

Works for me

[MathBlade]

Ugh I am going to bed. I am brainfried after a long shift and I got a lot of em coming up

If scum could scum slip I would appreciate it

[MathBlade]

i will most likely have questions for you later today when i actually go through day 1.

Darn I was hoping to read your D1 thoughts this morning before work.

[MathBlade]

sorry math, will get to it within the day, i'm just not having a really good day ._.

Then deploying hugs regardless of alignment, hope it gets better!

[MathBlade]

Scale of 1-10
Ari + Andres as the solve

[MathBlade]

yeah, i will be going to bed soon, we have 9 days left for this

i'm kinda skimming around the game and trying to see if anything catches my eye, but no luck yet

your working solve is dats/andres, right? how confident are you in it?

Please answer the D1 question

And everyone on a scale of 1-10 Ari/Andres solve?

[MathBlade]

and i'm assuming the scale means "how sure are you that is the solve", and like... ugh, fuck if i know. can i hit pause on that until house gets back to me? cool thanks.

That assumption is correct.

[MathBlade]

What changed?

[MathBlade]

…Sir your sarcasm is showing. Remember Shadowrun and 48 hours of straight posting

Damn that was brutal

*lurks because working*

[MathBlade]

I don't think you are the prime elimination target, I don't think anyone is even scumreading you?

I never townread House exclusively but he’s definitely not my top elim choice. I just think his read on Ari is bad more than likely. I figure I would leave the House read for if I die or the next day if one exists.

Every way I am slicing this Ari is scum but I need to detail why and see if IV agrees since IV townreads Ari

[MathBlade]

I think Math's primary solve is Ari/Andres rn

It’s you plus someone.

I have a couple theories trying to narrow down.

[MathBlade]

Even by his own standard of my old scum play, I wasn't one that caught scumreads when I was scum 6+ years ago. I solo carried my teams in the past from time to time.

The fact my recent scumgames look like sometime who's never even played the game before should be more informative to him than anyone else in this game.

I haven’t played scum with you in years and just clocked out after a 13 ish hour shift? I dunno time blurs.

If you think I have read any of those links yet ha ha

[MathBlade]

Except for when we got busted in the Morning Tweet game and there was zilch that could happen that game

[MathBlade]

I think Math's primary solve is Ari/Andres rn

It’s you plus someone.

I have a couple theories trying to narrow down.

I'm happy to answer any questions that will help you figure out it's not me.

If you're unable to figure this out I'm fine being eliminated here so we can save the trouble of you looking for a partner that doesn't exist for me as the game will be over.

That’s why I am going slow in case I am wrong and going to build a case that IV can read in a bit here

[MathBlade]

If you think I have read any of those links yet ha ha

It's like you actively don't WANT to townread me (as like, a playstyle thing).

If you wonder why I have no interest in being in future games with you, this is it.

Edited for clarity.

I don’t want to hard townread anyone in elo as a playstyle thing.

Those who I know can deep wolf (Skitter, you, RC, Titus) I always keep a bit of doubt for

The difference is I am not actively letting that sus get in the way of my solve today.

[MathBlade]

That list isn’t exhaustive btw either

[MathBlade]

If you think I have read any of those links yet ha ha

It's like you actively don't WANT to townread me (as like, a playstyle thing).

If you wonder why I have no interest in being in future games with you, this is it.

Edited for clarity.

I don’t want to hard townread anyone in elo as a playstyle thing.

Those who I know can deep wolf (Skitter, you, RC, Titus) I always keep a bit of doubt for

The difference is I am not actively letting that sus get in the way of my solve today.

This is bullshit.

If I tried to use meta from 5+ years ago to justify a read on you, you'd rightly call it bullshit.

Stop doing it to me.

I am not using it to justify a read on you

I am using it to justify your potential skill level.

[MathBlade]

The main issues I have with Ari are mainly mechanical.

Dats + Andres is pretty much impossible as a scum team.

Andres would have to be bussing Dats and Andres bussing Dats and getting zero cred when the other dies.

I don’t really see both together happening but I do see one of them happening more than likely.

[MathBlade]

If you think I have read any of those links yet ha ha

It's like you actively don't WANT to townread me (as like, a playstyle thing).

If you wonder why I have no interest in being in future games with you, this is it.

Edited for clarity.

I don’t want to hard townread anyone in elo as a playstyle thing.

Those who I know can deep wolf (Skitter, you, RC, Titus) I always keep a bit of doubt for

The difference is I am not actively letting that sus get in the way of my solve today.

This is bullshit.

If I tried to use meta from 5+ years ago to justify a read on you, you'd rightly call it bullshit.

Stop doing it to me.

I am not using it to justify a read on you

I am using it to justify your potential skill level.

Which is an ignorant if not asinine & unfounded assumption.

Which you'd know if YOU ACTUALLY READ MY RECENT SCUM GAMES.

I have seen you be good.

It doesn’t matter how long ago you’re good.

I don’t think you decrease in skill and never be able to do it again.

[MathBlade]

Considering it’s a PoE of four and both you and Ari suspect Dats and Andres I find it more likely Ari has pocketed you than you being scum.

[MathBlade]

If the scum team is Dats/Andres isn't that exactly what they need you to believe to win the game?

But it’s not about belief though.

They don’t know how that system works so they don’t know what I am gleaming from it.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=13055898#p13055898

I think it can work pretty well.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=13055898#p13055898

I think it can work pretty well.

Idk who that's to, but I hope it wasn't for my benefit because a link with no context doesn't tell me anything.

It’s where I used the heatmap to name scum team exactly in a dance game. Granted heat maps are way easier in pairs games.

[MathBlade]

uh at 2-4 you only need to pocket one townie and you won't be able to be elimmed unless you are bussed so that's not really true?

If I am scum here I think I probably do try to pocket town!you as you are relatively unsuspected and thus un-elimmable and try to win against whichever other townie is in the POE.

I think you do try to pocket me while saying dumb mechanical things to get what you want.

Andres was correct in there’s no world here we don’t elim. I don’t like you suggesting we should.

[MathBlade]

uh at 2-4 you only need to pocket one townie and you won't be able to be elimmed unless you are bussed so that's not really true?

If I am scum here I think I probably do try to pocket town!you as you are relatively unsuspected and thus un-elimmable and try to win against whichever other townie is in the POE.

I mean, that's primarily true because of you, though.

Math has been busting his ass trying to kill me, and you kinda made that a difficult proposition at best.

You had no idea how I'd react to your hard defense. I could have easily called it white knighting if I was as superficial as Mathblade.

I actually haven’t. I have been trying to sort you and you’ve been doing that protown lying bullshit which is very difficult to differentiate from scum lying bullshit for me.

[MathBlade]

The only difference between me/datisi/andres that I can see is that House happens to townread me out of the three players; so if anything your system is punishing me for being townread by House?

Main problem is both Datisi and Andres have three people suspect them

That means at least one scum suspects both.

[MathBlade]

uh at 2-4 you only need to pocket one townie and you won't be able to be elimmed unless you are bussed so that's not really true?

If I am scum here I think I probably do try to pocket town!you as you are relatively unsuspected and thus un-elimmable and try to win against whichever other townie is in the POE.

I mean, that's primarily true because of you, though.

Math has been busting his ass trying to kill me, and you kinda made that a difficult proposition at best.

You had no idea how I'd react to your hard defense. I could have easily called it white knighting if I was as superficial as Mathblade.

I actually haven’t. I have been trying to sort you and you’ve been doing that protown lying bullshit which is very difficult to differentiate from scum lying bullshit for me.

That's because you only care about actions, not motivations.

Agree to disagree and move on

[MathBlade]

uh at 2-4 you only need to pocket one townie and you won't be able to be elimmed unless you are bussed so that's not really true?

If I am scum here I think I probably do try to pocket town!you as you are relatively unsuspected and thus un-elimmable and try to win against whichever other townie is in the POE.

I think you do try to pocket me while saying dumb mechanical things to get what you want.

Andres was correct in there’s no world here we don’t elim. I don’t like you suggesting we should.

What's my scum motivation in suggesting no elim?

I can think of two.

One is to kill me over IV who suspects you more and then when IV gets an inno on you or a buddy coast
Another is to kill IV then if we get scum then kill me so final elim isn’t town driven

[MathBlade]

I don't particularly care at this point about no elim. I've been fairly transparent in why I think it's a good choice here.

If we lose to some randomness like IV-scum I want you to remember that I gave us a way to avoid it but you chose to ignore me out of your own hubris rather than blame the NRG for approving an unbalanced setup.

If IV is scum this game this is an unbalanced setup but I still agree that this no elim is the right call even without it.

There shouldn’t be a no elim with one conf town let alone 1.5-2

[MathBlade]

Like, you still can't tell me why I, as scum, would fake claim the one role in the game that could simply kill me instead of cc me and battle it out in day play.

It's literally suicide as scum.

Will you please shut up? You’re not in my PoE today and not unless whoever we flip flips scum and there is still a game.

[MathBlade]

The only difference between me/datisi/andres that I can see is that House happens to townread me out of the three players; so if anything your system is punishing me for being townread by House?

Main problem is both Datisi and Andres have three people suspect them

That means at least one scum suspects both.

That third person is House. Your system is literally just punishing me for being townread by House.

Weird way to think about it, but I mean I guess?

I know a scum is scumreading Dats and a scum is scumreading Andres.

They aren’t hard bussing each other and it doesn’t match the heat signatures.

[MathBlade]

Andres’s mechanical sense at the start of day really vibes with how I felt and just feels right. So I am trying to sort if you v Andres about no elim is a manufactured argument or if he is stopping you from a bad suggestion,

[MathBlade]

They aren’t hard bussing each other and it doesn’t match the heat signatures.

I don't understand what this even means.

Then you don’t understand my system.

Numbers are only a part of it.

[MathBlade]

They aren’t hard bussing each other and it doesn’t match the heat signatures.

I don't understand what this even means.

Then you don’t understand my system.

Numbers are only a part of it.

ok are you going to explain it to me so I can figure out why it's giving you the wrong result or ?

I planned on doing more of an initial case instead to see if my theory matches the heat maps.

[MathBlade]

Andres’s mechanical sense at the start of day really vibes with how I felt and just feels right. So I am trying to sort if you v Andres about no elim is a manufactured argument or if he is stopping you from a bad suggestion,

I have paranoia about IV being scum and this setup being unbalanced.

No-elim would remove that paranoia for me if IV is shot overnight.

Just because you disagree with my paranoia doesn't mean I am mafia.

This is another reason I scumread you.

Earlier you championed IV is town by mechanics, now you’re paranoid.

This makes me really feel you are stuck somehow just don’t know the how

[MathBlade]

This is another reason I scumread you.

Earlier you championed IV is town by mechanics, now you’re paranoid.

This makes me really feel you are stuck somehow just don’t know the how

we literally don't lose anything by going from 6->5 to confirm IV town

We lose both elims being town driven.

[MathBlade]

Andres’s mechanical sense at the start of day really vibes with how I felt and just feels right. So I am trying to sort if you v Andres about no elim is a manufactured argument or if he is stopping you from a bad suggestion,

I have paranoia about IV being scum and this setup being unbalanced.

No-elim would remove that paranoia for me if IV is shot overnight.

Just because you disagree with my paranoia doesn't mean I am mafia.

This is another reason I scumread you.

Earlier you championed IV is town by mechanics, now you’re paranoid.

This makes me really feel you are stuck somehow just don’t know the how

I've changed my mind.

I want to no lim tomorrow so town will have a chance to win.

I haven’t even tried casing her and now you’re saying you want it to be magically tomorrow?

Despite the fact you think it would be IV dying and I would lose my one fail safe if Ari is town to fucking tell me so?

[MathBlade]

We lose both elims being town driven.

You think IV is going to survive the night?

I think one of me or IV will.

If we no elim then me or IV dies and the other drives the next da

Then both melos are town driven

[MathBlade]

If we don’t no elim * that should say

[MathBlade]

Andres’s mechanical sense at the start of day really vibes with how I felt and just feels right. So I am trying to sort if you v Andres about no elim is a manufactured argument or if he is stopping you from a bad suggestion,

I have paranoia about IV being scum and this setup being unbalanced.

No-elim would remove that paranoia for me if IV is shot overnight.

Just because you disagree with my paranoia doesn't mean I am mafia.

This is another reason I scumread you.

Earlier you championed IV is town by mechanics, now you’re paranoid.

This makes me really feel you are stuck somehow just don’t know the how

I've changed my mind.

I want to no lim tomorrow so town will have a chance to win.

I haven’t even tried casing her and now you’re saying you want it to be magically tomorrow?

Despite the fact you think it would be IV dying and I would lose my one fail safe if Ari is town to fucking tell me so?

No.

I'm saying I'm voting no lim instead of Datisi tomorrow to get rid of you tomorrow night.

I mean…That assumes we even have a tomorroe and requires me to fire correct today yeah? Then if you no elim tomorrow after I prove myself right today that is dumb

[MathBlade]

We lose both elims being town driven.

You think IV is going to survive the night?

I think one of me or IV will.

If we no elim then me or IV dies and the other drives the next da

Then both melos are town driven

if you survive to tommorrow, you can dictate the elim and the elim for the next day, just post your solve. we will all sheep you.

if IV survives to tommorrow, we get an extra night result if he's town and if he's scum we actually have a chance of winning.

His result is likely a fake one due to traitor or doctor.

Elimming here is bad.

He’s much more likely to get a result we have to ignore if he is not shot dead.

The only result we could accept as true is a guilty which then if you genuinely have paranoia you’d be weirded out by.

[MathBlade]

I mean…going against the two conf town means the wagon would likely need scum to go through so…you do that. You’re not in control conf town is.

[MathBlade]

I don't think we're going to reach an agreement on no-lim.

I am fairly sure you will get whatever you want today.

If your decision is to kill me I'm probably going to die and I think you can get Datisi/Andres/IV to vote with you on me so the game will be over and there won't be a point to actually discussing the mechanics of no-lim versus lim.

Let's talk about your "heatmap" system that you are using to solve instead because it's clear to me it's giving you a faulty conclusion so I'd like to help you figure out why.

I would rather not try to explain a complex system at 11PM and spend my time casing you instead.

[MathBlade]

Trying to argue the minutia of a system as if that’s my sole reason for scumreading you is not accurate either

You’ve been doing these little misreps all game and it’s annoying

[MathBlade]

I mean…going against the two conf town means the wagon would likely need scum to go through so…you do that. You’re not in control conf town is.

Which is why pocketing me as scum is futile.

If you won’t ever vote scum it’s the perfect pocket