Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Kanna]

Link to VC on this page.

and the lack of followup to my response.

ftr, i read it and i still mulling over what i think about you. i don't feel the need to reply with "ok" to every answer i get.

i'm not sure how i feel about you scumreading me over me playing "mechanically" which = consistency, but also inconsistency because i didn't state a read on you.

[Kanna]

it is not lost on me that this post was about beeboy.

and what would you say this tells you?

[Kanna]

Btw, I am not actually feeling anyone's Raven read, I don't really see where that read is coming from.
Someone help me with that, they just read as null for me.

The only thing is she called Nahdia LHF, which I agree even cutting out all knowledge from outside this game just isn't true. Although I just don't think this game has LHF, even the newer players like Tux are perfectly capable of defending themselves.

i think raven has a pretty clear progressions. i dont see why she harps on not being able to read my slot as scum, particularly when there are a lot of other things she could comment on.

her wariness towards people pushing the easy targets feels real, especially given how she explained it in 630.

I agree with the bolded. There's a genuineness in that post that i think is hard to fake.

[Kanna]

oh I haven’t responded to skitter’s posts; I’ll do that tomorrow.

[Hectic]

¶

Votecount 1.13

[2] lilith2013:

Nahdia, Tuxedo Mask

[1] Tuxedo Mask:

Clover Ebi

[1] Nahdia:

skitter

[1] Raven Branwen:

lilith2013

[1] Dunnstral:

midwaybear

[1] skitter30:

Kanna

[1] drusilla:

beeboy

[1] midwaybear:

Dunnstral

[4] Not Voting:

drusilla, Raven Branwen, Morning Tweet, Starbuck

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to throw someone down the well.
The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-10 09:18:09).
V/LA section.

[skitter30]

literally how? i was wary of lilith's reads because they seemed convenient & i didn't understand the reasoning. but looking closely at her posts, it did raise the question i asked of her. what about that screams partner like, at all?

You're right. The more i think of it it's wk-y and not really partner-y

I'm very confident there's at least one scum in that pair. For a while i thought it was svs but i think it's svt now and that raven likes being defended by you

[skitter30]

knew this was coming. i'll tell you the exact same thing i told you in BOTC: they're completely different games. in botc, the setup allowed me to enter with a specific plan and there were mechanics i could base all my reads on. in this game, that doesn't exist. you can't expect the same level of engagement when it's literally just a matter of scumhunting versus explaining/extrapolating from heavy mechanics. im a mechanically oriented player.

Tbh this is a large basis for the scumread, and i couldnt really bring this up until now

I think that you're lacking the interest/drive/wim/charisma that you had in your towngame, in a way similar to how you lacked it in your scumgame

And i can cite the mbos game too now. You just have more 'weight' as town, and you're more involved. As scum you just feel ... shallow. Like you're around but not motivated to hunt. And i think that's what you're doing here, and i think it's scummy.

I dont think the lack of mechanics is an adequate explanation really. You still scumhunted in botc

[lilith2013]

Can you explain what you think I should have done instead when I didn't have enough information to feel like I could scumread you?

You gave about the answer I expected. I understand wanting to pressure people that are present in the thread. Though I do still find it weird you didn't acknowledge my posts after my push on Beeboy, or how others responded to those posts. Like you were apparently mindmelding on Beeboy, so did that mindmeld break when they gave reasons for unvoting me, or did you agree? Also, you say now you can continue pursuing it now that you know my view of Dunn, is this it? I kind of thought there would be more for the follow up.

What posts do you want me to acknowledge? I was catching up on like 300 posts, I only commented on the stuff I thought was important.

My reads have diverged from beeboy's but that doesn't mean my original reasons for townreading him aren't still valid. As I said, the fact that he was having thoughts so similar to mine is a good sign his thought processes are town thought processes, and I think beeboy really got engaged with the conversations that were happening and wasn't afraid to give his opinions on the wagon that was happening at the time. iirc you disagreed with my description of what happened, but I don't really feel like it's worth arguing with that because you basically seem to have locked in your idea of what happened and I don't wanna put in the effort to argue if I don't think the argument will be successful (ie by changing your mind).

Your continual lack of read on Dunn is problematic, for much the same reasons I was scumreading nahdia. Dunn's wagon was the first big event in this game and instead of giving your opinion on Dunn, you latched onto beeboy instead. That reads as if you are uncomfortable with interacting with the main wagon. The "read" you gave me in response was basically a non-read, so it feels like you went straight for beeboy without thinking about what beeboy's motiviations would have been in defending the dunn wagon there and what that would indicate about dunn's alignment. That's a missing link that I often can't replicate when I'm scum.

I mean if you're talking about Beeboy V. Me I would have expected you to comment on how it concluded. It seems like an odd omission from your catch up.

I don't think breaking a mind-meld with someone implies you don't read them as town. However, since you were hopping on a bunch of Beeboy's posts to comment that you agree and it was the conclusion of Beeboy V. Me I did expect something like "what are you guys doing he doesn't have a Dunn read?" or "I wouldn't unvote here." You know what I'm saying, it feels like a missing link.

Okay now you’re literally using the words I used about you

I talked to beeboy already about that, and at the time you had yet to respond to me about whether you had a read on dunn so that wasn’t something I felt I could bring up as an argument because I didn’t know whether you had a read on dunn when I asked beeboy about you.

I already said that I only commented on things I thought were important. During my catch-up I was more focused on how other people were responding to your interactions with beeboy, as well as the lack of Dunn read from you that persisted, so I guess I didn’t think the ending if the interaction itself was notable.

You really seem to want to 1v1 me here, and like.. your reaction to my one question to you was way overblown. Why are you coming after me so hard? Is it because you saw that dunnstral was called town for pushing me and you want the townpoints too? Sorry, no townpoints for you.

In post 488, lilith2013 wrote:
Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

Can you elaborate on this? Something about it feels very off.

You didn't address this. What did you mean here?

both in my poe -> both had posts that pinged me -> I think both might be scum. What's "off" about this progression?

Why is like 80% of your content in the last several days focused on me?

This is what interests me at the moment.

I didn't complain about the progression. You asked if it was really so easy as Raven/Nahida, and then said that's where you
are at. That implies you view them as the scum team. Now this pinged me because its a closed set up, and this comes off like a scum slip. Because you seem to think we're looking for two scum. Why?

.........

I’m used to playing in micros. For whatever reason, I always initially think it’s two scum. I realized after I made that post that it likely was a three-man scumteam, but I still stand behind that post. Even if they’re not

the

scumteam, I’m still POEd down to them somewhat.

[lilith2013]

I will do another catchup in a bit and shock warning: they will very likely be disjointed, disparate and unconnected, like they are every damn game I do catchups (particularly extensive ones). @Lillith

I’m pretty much allergic to wall posts and my strongly preferred stream of consciousness post by post responses kept getting me yelled at and accused of spamming and derailing the game, so this is my best attempt to compromise the way I like to do catchups and still be considered of others.

I also said I was confused primarily about Nahdia’s posting because I was but I’m liking her posting more and more and am starting to develop a strong town lean on that slot.

More to come.

i mean the thought did cross my mind that as scum you don't really have the need to produce this much content.

idk. i guess you do have a reason to be scumreading raven, though i disagree with pretty much the whole thing. even so it's at least a bit less convenient now.

@both raven and nahdia: I think I just really struggle to see what the underlying thoughts are behind the posts. Raven, I don’t mean to bash on your posting style, it’s something I’m also having trouble with for drusilla, and this is the main way I read people - understanding the thought process behind the posts and whether those thought processes are town indicative or scum indicative. If I can’t get to/understand the thought processes behind the posts, then I form a scumread on that person because I think either they’re trying to hide their thought processes or their thought processes don’t feel like something I could see from town. I think I’d actually prefer the “spammy” stream of consciousness posts tbh, because that would help with letting me see what your thought processes are, but I think I also have a high tolerance for reading posts if my post count is any indication...

[Raven Branwen]

I will do another catchup in a bit and shock warning: they will very likely be disjointed, disparate and unconnected, like they are every damn game I do catchups (particularly extensive ones). @Lillith

I’m pretty much allergic to wall posts and my strongly preferred stream of consciousness post by post responses kept getting me yelled at and accused of spamming and derailing the game, so this is my best attempt to compromise the way I like to do catchups and still be considered of others.

I also said I was confused primarily about Nahdia’s posting because I was but I’m liking her posting more and more and am starting to develop a strong town lean on that slot.

More to come.

i mean the thought did cross my mind that as scum you don't really have the need to produce this much content.

idk. i guess you do have a reason to be scumreading raven, though i disagree with pretty much the whole thing. even so it's at least a bit less convenient now.

@both raven and nahdia: I think I just really struggle to see what the underlying thoughts are behind the posts. Raven, I don’t mean to bash on your posting style, it’s something I’m also having trouble with for drusilla, and this is the main way I read people - understanding the thought process behind the posts and whether those thought processes are town indicative or scum indicative. If I can’t get to/understand the thought processes behind the posts, then I form a scumread on that person because I think either they’re trying to hide their thought processes or their thought processes don’t feel like something I could see from town. I think I’d actually prefer the “spammy” stream of consciousness posts tbh, because that would help with letting me see what your thought processes are, but I think I also have a high tolerance for reading posts if my post count is any indication...

I believe that but then you probably don’t have the experience of having people tell you that you clogging up the thread with useless repetitive posts makes it unfun to play with you, because it makes the game unplayable and difficult to read.

I actually did temporarily revert to that posting style when I made those 4 posts in a row on votato but because it wasn’t a complete catchup, my fear of spamming resulted in my misconstruing the timeline of his posting. I made my post wrongly accusing him of sr me right after I posted my I think he and Clover were unaligned post, BEFORE I read that he thought I was scummy, so I decided that unless I spammed the thread with numerous catchup posts in a row, I was going to continue making those kind of mistakes, so I’m sorry if that makes it harder for you to read me but making posts with several unrelated comments is just the way I do my catchups, so there’s absolutely nothing “disconnected” about that.

[lilith2013]

Raven, can I get responses from you on these things:

do we have a different definition of LHF or something? what i mean is like, she's pushing the same people she says she needs more content on as scum. the reads feel "easy".

i mean she also explained why she's scumreading her, it's not like she's just going like 'meh skitter isn't here so i'll vote her' or something

i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.

tux is town. lilith is town? kanna is a bit townie based on first impression. but again, need a lot more content. morning is townish, but need a bit more. im less confident in morning being town than most games. could be the gamblers fallacy making me skeptical, or maybe its something else. but town for now. skitter gives me townvibes, but need to see more content. beeboy gives early townvibes? but has been strange. its page 13, so thats about all youre gonna get.

that leaves a PoE of
{clover, midway, nahdia, raven, drusilla}

. midway im not willing to lynch at this stage, but mostly because hes LHF and will probably be obvscum later on if scum. im happy leaving my vote on clover pending content from the other slots.

This is why I’m voting votato. This post has never sat right with me and it strengthens my Clover tl as well because it was only after I posted that I thought they were unalligned that he switched his vote to me. Clover unlike votato didn’t react suspiciously to that.

Can you explain why you think 321 is focusing on low hanging fruit? I just really disagree with that statement, like all votato was doing was stating that he didn't have townreads on those people and therefore they were in his POE, and (same as me) that naturally happens to include lower content people because he wasn't able to sort them yet due to low content. The way I read it, he wasn't saying that anyone was scummy for being low content, just that he didn't have townreads on them.

i mean i never said my clover scumread was that strong. but its still the strongest scumread i have? i mean clover has a point, but i dont think clover's scumread on me is any better. i think everyone is kinda waiting for scum to appear and reveal themselves, which for some reason they dont seem to want to do.

Well D1 is hard because it’s only when you get flips that you can really get good reads.

I would say that I think it’s extremely unlikely that you and Clover are aligned, so if either one of you flips scum, the other one is very likely to be town.

Is this truly a coincidence, that he switches his vote to me right after this post?

Can you quote the posts where that happened? You keep saying "it was only after I said they're not aligned with Clover that votato voted me" but the vote came way later - As far as I can tell, his vote on you was 120 posts after this.. You're ascribing a cause and effect here that, again, I just totally disagree with

Raven, can you respond to this please

Spoiler:

Yes because her tone seems genuine to me, what’s wrong with that? Is she? It reads more than she’s concerned about us both being LHFs in this game. Do you disagree that either of us would be easy pushes to make?

- it's more the fact that you keep making a Big Deal over the fact that you don't know how to read them and that you're making a point of making this known. it feels kinda fake.
- I dont' think they're lhf
- you might be (@nahdia in a vacuum i think raven might be lhf but i don't think lilith is approaching it from that angle)

Yes, I have been talking about it a lot which Nahdia mentioned as well and my response to you is the same as what I posted to her. I don’t see why you think that’s “fake” though.

My two cents: when you talked about nahdia, there was no actual analysis shown of her posts or opinions given on the things she's said, it's just "oh I can't read Nahdia, Nahdia is giving me a lot of trouble, does anyone have Nahdia meta." Which comes across as just for show, instead of explaining how you view each of her posts and why you're having trouble with reading her. Your recent posts about her have been better but I'm not sure if it outweighs the initial lack of analysis given because we had to prod you into giving your reasoning first.

Spoiler:

i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.

@ raven posts like these feel partner-y

Can you tell me why? You keep saying that she’s trying to “tie” herself to me and “defend” me and I agree with Kanna as I don’t see how she’s doing either one of those things with that post. Why is calling us both lhfs read as “partnery” to you at all. I don’t get it.

I had posted a shitton of content by that point and the thing that Nahdia chose to engage me on was my read of you, they came to your defense on that read, and as far as I can recall hasn't engaged with like.. anything else I've said besides reads on you and them. Then Nahdia voted me and it was, again, partly because of my read on you. So yeah I think there's an associative there.

Spoiler:

i don't really see the raven/nahdia link and it feels weird how she's portraying it that way like in these posts:

a) raven is making a point of making it known that she can't commit to a read on nahdia
b) nahdia is defending raven from being pushed
c) what do you think of the fact that lilith also sees the associative?

Find me the quote where Nahdia is “defending” me. Calling us both lhfs isn’t defending.

Spoiler:

and is that really your only take away from what has been an eventful 7 pages?

did you ever explain what exactly I said that was "stirring up both sides" of the Dunn wagon?

shading people defending dunn as well as people attacking dunn. you were fence-sitting and playing both sides.

I need to re-ISO her, I see a few people as having done that. Maybe she just expresses it more cohesively than Nahdia?

? What does this mean, do you think nahdia was fencesitting?

I don’t and still don’t understand her reasoning for most of her reads which initially pinged me but she comes off as so sincere, it’s really hard to distinguish between confused town and scum posting. Her recent posting and in particular, her questioning of me, makes me lean to confused town. When I compare her posting with votato, it’s literally no contest. I am concerned that she is being scumread because of low charisma and I would rather vote a slot I feel more confident on.

I’m really not liking Skitter pushing us together as buddies. What are your thoughts on that? She keeps buddy reading a post that doesn’t read to me that way at all as her main reason for continuing to push this narrative and I also don’t understand why she feels I should be able to alignment lock anyone today. I’m not even alignment locked on Starbuck/votato rn and should probably unvote her pending more content.

UNVOTE:

@Raven, here's the series of posts where Nahdia argues against my read on you.

lilith can you like, summarize your raven read? i see a few points directed on them in your ISO but a general summation would be nice.

oh, funny that should come up. because it's basically what i think of you.

that you're pushing LHF that is. not that you are.

i dont know how one reads Raven' posts as disconnected when they all seem to follow a very clear progression. like, she's devoid of content, yes, but it's all rather consistent content. she outs a few scattered thoughts as the game progresses, but there are two consistent arcs:
her confusion on how to read me
and her read on votato, which she updates as she goes.

I mean, I feel like I've developed decent reads on everyone who I've interacted with, so who's left? people who I haven't talked to, which is pretty much equivalent to low-content

so you're townreading everyone you've interacted with?

i dont know how one reads Raven' posts as disconnected when they all seem to follow a very clear progression. like, she's devoid of content, yes, but it's all rather consistent content. she outs a few scattered thoughts as the game progresses, but there are two consistent arcs:
her confusion on how to read me

Already mentioned that I think her confusion comes off as performative

and her read on votato, which she updates as she goes.

And I don't think the votato read/progression is a valid one. 467 is like, leading up to scumreading both votato and you. She agrees with your push on votato but questions it at the same time.

I mean, I feel like I've developed decent reads on everyone who I've interacted with, so who's left? people who I haven't talked to, which is pretty much equivalent to low-content

so you're townreading everyone you've interacted with?

No - what I mean is that I feel like the people who I still need more content from to sort are mostly in the low-content end of the playerlist. Also I feel like I've followed up with most of those people in one way or another (see 512 - this includes drusilla, MT, raven, and midway)

whether or not the confusion is performative or the votato progression is invalid, it's consistent. which i point out because you referred to her posts as "disconnected". and i dont see how you could have come to that conclusion

Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

which is it. do you need more content from our slots, or do you think we're scum?

VOTE: lilith

Raven, pretty sure you also have yet to respond to these:

tux is town. lilith is town? kanna is a bit townie based on first impression. but again, need a lot more content. morning is townish, but need a bit more. im less confident in morning being town than most games. could be the gamblers fallacy making me skeptical, or maybe its something else. but town for now. skitter gives me townvibes, but need to see more content. beeboy gives early townvibes? but has been strange. its page 13, so thats about all youre gonna get. that leaves a PoE of
{clover, midway, nahdia, raven, drusilla}. midway im not willing to lynch at this stage, but mostly because hes LHF and will probably be obvscum later on if scum. im happy leaving my vote on clover pending content from the other slots.

Three of your possible PoE could also be argued as LHF, two of which haven’t posted much content. Why is your focus more on posters with less content than more active posters?

This is pinging me a bit. It reads like, if I can’t push Clover, i’ll shift my focus to the lower content posters, which in general is something scum tends to do more than town.

By definition POE will include people who haven’t been sorted yet because they haven’t posted enough. Why do you have an issue with votato not having a townread on people who haven’t posted a lot? I think that’s a completely fair stance to take.

Also it’s a really weird conclusion to draw that votato is focusing on any of the low-content posters because he basically didn’t mention them other than in his poe list.

[/quote]

[lilith2013]

I will do another catchup in a bit and shock warning: they will very likely be disjointed, disparate and unconnected, like they are every damn game I do catchups (particularly extensive ones). @Lillith

I’m pretty much allergic to wall posts and my strongly preferred stream of consciousness post by post responses kept getting me yelled at and accused of spamming and derailing the game, so this is my best attempt to compromise the way I like to do catchups and still be considered of others.

I also said I was confused primarily about Nahdia’s posting because I was but I’m liking her posting more and more and am starting to develop a strong town lean on that slot.

More to come.

i mean the thought did cross my mind that as scum you don't really have the need to produce this much content.

idk. i guess you do have a reason to be scumreading raven, though i disagree with pretty much the whole thing. even so it's at least a bit less convenient now.

@both raven and nahdia: I think I just really struggle to see what the underlying thoughts are behind the posts. Raven, I don’t mean to bash on your posting style, it’s something I’m also having trouble with for drusilla, and this is the main way I read people - understanding the thought process behind the posts and whether those thought processes are town indicative or scum indicative. If I can’t get to/understand the thought processes behind the posts, then I form a scumread on that person because I think either they’re trying to hide their thought processes or their thought processes don’t feel like something I could see from town. I think I’d actually prefer the “spammy” stream of consciousness posts tbh, because that would help with letting me see what your thought processes are, but I think I also have a high tolerance for reading posts if my post count is any indication...

I believe that but then you probably don’t have the experience of having people tell you that you clogging up the thread with useless repetitive posts makes it unfun to play with you, because it makes the game unplayable and difficult to read.

I actually did temporarily revert to that posting style when I made those 4 posts in a row on votato but because it wasn’t a complete catchup, my fear of spamming resulted in my misconstruing the timeline of his posting. I made my post wrongly accusing him of sr me right after I posted my I think he and Clover were unaligned post, BEFORE I read that he thought I was scummy, so I decided that unless I spammed the thread with numerous catchup posts in a row, I was going to continue making those kind of mistakes, so I’m sorry if that makes it harder for you to read me but making posts with several unrelated comments is just the way I do my catchups, so there’s absolutely nothing “disconnected” about that.

I'm closing in on 150 posts and no one has complained about that yet; I made probably 30 posts very close together at one point while catching up, and again, no one has complained.. I feel like this is a bit of a flimsy excuse. I want you to post your thoughts because otherwise how are people supposed to read you?

[lilith2013]

Also until recently I had this sense that you were constantly in "catch-up mode" and not really creating your own content/pushing interactions. It's better now but I also feel like that's at least partly because I started pushing you and you started receiving pressure

[lilith2013]

literally how? i was wary of lilith's reads because they seemed convenient & i didn't understand the reasoning. but looking closely at her posts, it did raise the question i asked of her. what about that screams partner like, at all?

You're right. The more i think of it it's wk-y and not really partner-y

I'm very confident there's at least one scum in that pair. For a while i thought it was svs but i think it's svt now and that raven likes being defended by you

skitter, when you say "raven likes being defended by [nahdia]," is that implying that raven is the S in the SvT? How can nahdia be WKing raven then?

[Raven Branwen]

We will just have to agree to disagree wrt votato’s PoE post. I still consider that to be scummy but I liked Star’s catchup, so I think votato may just be one of those posters who posts scummy irrespective of alignment. It did seem to me that most who tr him were basing that off of meta, so I can see how that’s possible.

But yes, I did/and still do think that him posting that he’s pretty much voteparking Clover unless he can imo switch to one of the lower content posters is something more often than not, I’ve seen scum do, so I think that was avalid read.

As regard to your other question, are you literally not reading my posts because I already explained that when MWB asked me the exact same thing and I just did it again in my most recent post, so I don’t understand why you keep asking me a question, I’ve not only explained once but twice now?

[lilith2013]

We will just have to agree to disagree wrt votato’s PoE post. I still consider that to be scummy but I liked Star’s catchup, so I think votato may just be one of those posters who posts scummy irrespective of alignment. It did seem to me that most who tr him were basing that off of meta, so I can see how that’s possible.

But yes, I did/and still do think that him posting that he’s pretty much voteparking Clover unless he can imo switch to one of the lower content posters is something more often than not, I’ve seen scum do, so I think that was avalid read.

As regard to your other question, are you literally not reading my posts because I already explained that when MWB asked me the exact same thing and I just did it again in my most recent post, so I don’t understand why you keep asking me a question, I’ve not only explained once but twice now?

ok then just say that you already answered it elsewhere, that's not even the main point of my post.

I really don't see an issue with votato saying "clover is my strongest scumread, unless someone who I haven't had enough content from to read yet becomes a stronger scumread than clover and then I would vote the person who is scummier"

[lilith2013]

Isn't that what everyone is doing all the time in mafia

[lilith2013]

On reread I'm actually not satisfied with how votato moved on from his clover scumread and some other stuff, but I think that's a separate issue

[Raven Branwen]

@Skitter, what will you do if Nahdia flips town like I think she likely will? tunnel me because you don’t seem to be too interested in looking at any other possibilities? Why are you not considering the possibility that you could be wrong and that Nahdia and I could both be just town?

Nahdia is correct to question why either you or Lillith continue to push this narrative about us somehow being linked, when there have been no flips. I think it’s kind of premature and not terribly productive to be focusing on associatives before we’ve even had a single flip. At this point in the game, it makes way more sense to be trying to form individual scumreads, don’t you agree?

[lilith2013]

I can't find any follow-up engagement with clover where votato tries to engage and sort clover more, and he only started questioning clover again after I did.

pedit: my reads on you and nahdia started as independent reads. nahdia chose to defend you, which links you whether you want it or not.

[Raven Branwen]

@Lillith, that was the main reason I initially scumread that slot. It obviously wasn’t scummy for him to have posted that if he changes his read on Clover, he will look elsewhere. What I found scummy was that his PoE (other than Clover) seemed to be comprised of mainly LHFs: me, Nahdia, Drusilla, MWB. Why was he not interested in looking for scum in the more active higher content posters? That was my concern and that’s something that historically scum tend to do more often than town and he literally never even explained his reasoning for his scumread on me, it read to me as a convenient vote after you pushed him. What I don’t understand is why MWB so strongly tr him for that?

[Raven Branwen]

I can't find any follow-up engagement with clover where votato tries to engage and sort clover more, and he only started questioning clover again after I did.

pedit: my reads on you and nahdia started as independent reads.

nahdia chose to defend you, which links you whether you want it or not.

Please explain HOW? Kanna and Tux have also defended me. Are they “linked” to me as well?

[skitter30]

skitter, when you say "raven likes being defended by [nahdia]," is that implying that raven is the S in the SvT? How can nahdia be WKing raven then?

no, nahdia would be the s in that scenario

[skitter30]

@Skitter, what will you do if Nahdia flips town like I think she likely will? tunnel me because you don’t seem to be too interested in looking at any other possibilities? Why are you not considering the possibility that you could be wrong and that Nahdia and I could both be just town?

Nahdia is correct to question why either you or Lillith continue to push this narrative about us somehow being linked, when there have been no flips. I think it’s kind of premature and not terribly productive to be focusing on associatives before we’ve even had a single flip. At this point in the game, it makes way more sense to be trying to form individual scumreads, don’t you agree?

a) if nahdia flips town, i will reevaluate at that time. i see little reason to townread them, and nobody is really explaining why i'm wrong so ...
b) you defend them. they defend you. i'm kinda baffled that neither of you see the partner-y associatives
c) i'm focusing on nahdia rn, and am trying to get them flipped. i'm not sure what else you want from me. i'm noting an associative. i'm not pushing for your lynch rn because of it

[skitter30]

i'm kinda getting bored about bickering with nahdia/raven about whehter or not they're partners, and i doubt it's going to go anywhere until at least one of them flips scum, so rn i want to concentrae on wagoning nahdia