Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[lilith2013]

What pinged you about votato? was it just the incongruency between him saying he was excited for the game and then not really taking much of a lead on pushing people?

His town bloc pushes with both MT and Tux were very bizzare to me. Had a slimy mix of being both tactical and presented as for fun.

I just don't think it was accomplishing anything outside giving himself a safety net given he isn't working that close to either Tux or MT. Not to mention Tux was getting pinged by Votato so it doubles as a "please back off"

You don't see me appeasing to Nahdia because we are friends,I am just playing it out.

Okay, thanks

[midwaybear]

did i already ask you how your read on me progressed? because i remember you scumreading me. im pretty sure i asked, but did you answer?

I didn't scumread you. The most I ever said was "stop sheeping".

[Clover Ebi]

The one thing I get that you could argue for is something Lilith brought up that Raven is scared of being in Votatos PoE and is shading them. The thing is though, it's not like Raven can just...stop. I think when she's done catching up will be most telling

[lilith2013]

Am I missing out on why Kanna is townread cause I'd love to be clued in.

I think her takes have been somewhat similar to MT's, and most people seem to be townreading MT so I guess they also townread Kanna by association? But I don't really think I'm there on either of them yet.

I think it's hard to gauge Ravens 466 without knowing exactly where she was during the catch up. Being disconnected/having a dif viewpoint isn't scummy it's how you present it that should be what you're looking at.

Sure, that's why I'm pressuring her so I can see if the disconnect I feel is in fact AI.

[lilith2013]

Clover you feel fairly town to me by play but the amount of townreading you do is kind of alarming. I know you said your playstyle is to find townreads but you don't seem to be considering that people could be scum at all? and that's concerning.

[votato]

midway do you see why just throwing random shade at people and not following up on it at all doesnt really help? like yeah go you for noticing things, but if you've only ever said scum things about me, and overall townread me, it doesnt make sense.

[votato]

heh i know the official townbloc is me tux and morning (maybe kanna) but its true that really im doing more to work in concert with lilith here. i think lilith, you get to be in the townbloc.

[Clover Ebi]

You'd actually be surprised at the list of people I have as 'Town' being Dunnstral/Skitter/Lilith/Beeboy. I understand what you're saying though, I've been trying to look for scummy things to some extent and it gave me a headache how much I just couldn't get it. Like I could probably vote

counts

about six players and I wouldn't be terribly upset at it but I don't have reason to not vote them either.

I think my biggest problem is I'm trying to take a lot of things in good faith/being lenient.

[votato]

You'd actually be surprised at the list of people I have as 'Town' being Dunnstral/Skitter/Lilith/Beeboy. I understand what you're saying though, I've been trying to look for scummy things to some extent and it gave me a headache how much I just couldn't get it. Like I could probably vote

counts

about six players and I wouldn't be terribly upset at it but I don't have reason to not vote them either.

I think my biggest problem is I'm trying to take a lot of things in good faith/being lenient.

ok, gun to head, pick three people for scum.

[Clover Ebi]

Like, the cloest to scumreads I have that I can give you reasons for is Tux/Votato
I read Raven and Kanna iso again. They're not really towny and I could vote that but if you told me they'd flip town I'd believe you. So I'm mostly trying to just find townreads and make a poe because I cannot find any strong scumreads right now. Do you think I should be doing something else?
pedit: Oh no. Um. You/Kanna/...Mid?

[votato]

Like, the cloest to scumreads I have that I can give you reasons for is Tux/Votato
I read Raven and Kanna iso again. They're not really towny and I could vote that but if you told me they'd flip town I'd believe you. So I'm mostly trying to just find townreads and make a poe because I cannot find any strong scumreads right now. Do you think I should be doing something else?
pedit: Oh no. Um. You/Kanna/...Mid?

why not tux? at the start of the post you suggested a scumread on tux. could you elaborate on kanna? and as for midway, why scum rather than noob town?

[Clover Ebi]

Now that I'm speaking outloud I just wanna kinda move my vote to here VOTE: midway So his meta is he's scummy as town but...scummy as scum? That could be a really easily used defense and I just kinda want to put some pressure here see where it leads.
pedit: Yeah just give me a sec. Headache coming in again

[votato]

and you just suggested that you were most hesitant to scumread midway, yet now you're voting midway above me/tux?/kanna.

[Clover Ebi]

I'm gonna just try to write all my thoughts down on paper and hopefully they make some sense/it clears things a little

[Morning Tweet]

@mod i'm going to be VLA till Sunday

[Clover Ebi]

Okay so, I know I just said I can give reasons for why Tux is scum and then in my name 3 scumreads post I don’t add him. That’s because in the moment of thinking about it I really only had two lines of thought that made me scumread Tux. I already covered the first part with his reasoning/entrance being eerily the same as Dunnstral the other part was when I questioned him on would he vote Votato the fact he said no was odd to me and I started wondering if the team was Votato/Tux but I’m not confident enough to just lock that in. So I didn’t have as much reasons as I first thought when I said it. I guess I just thought I had more to the read than I did.

As for Kanna her iso feels very safe? Like I don’t enjoy her Nahdia vote and the hedge in Lilith feels kinda like an excuse. It’s just very meh to me.

Mid could be noob town! But I don't think we have any reasonable way to differentiate that. So I kinda wanna put a vote down see where it goes. He says he hasn't read me maybe this will grab his attention say hello ya know? Get a better read going.

[votato]

@mod i'm going to be VLA till Sunday

NOOOOO

[midwaybear]

midway do you see why just throwing random shade at people and not following up on it at all doesnt really help? like yeah go you for noticing things, but if you've only ever said scum things about me, and overall townread me, it doesnt make sense.

I townread you after reading your iso though. It's not like I was hard tunneled on to you. I see what you mean though.

I don't get the point of Clover's vote.

[Tuxedo Mask]

Spoiler: When you last posted on page 13 and see the game is at page 24

Actually thinking about that now, those were both related to special setup mechanics. Maybe the setup not having special mechanics is changing how he opens -- Obviously that doesn't change how he did stand out as townie in those games but it makes me wonder

We can talk set up if you'd like. The only thing that comes to mind is I've never played a game with potential bastard mechanics and I don't know what that entails.

why is everyone afraid to lynch me because of my town meta? I just want to be townie for once

I town read this sentiment, asking to be lynched or town read just feels like something that wouldn't come from scum. @Midwaybear have you played scum before?

i think i'm here right now

<Morning Tweet, Tuxedo Mask, votato>
<beeboy, Dunnstral>
<Clover Ebi, midwaybear>

<skitter30, lilith2013, Raven Branwen, Nahdia, drusilla> -- POE

I assume this goes from town to scum? Could you elaborate on these reads, please? Have you sorted anyone else from your POE?

Wow, sorry I'm so late to the party guys. This game is moving fast. I don't like Beeboy's entrance at all. It seems to try and derail the momentum building on Dunn, before swinging into to defend him when he starts posting content. What's up with that? Why did you want people to say hi so much?

VOTE: Beeboy

This post feels kinda disjointed in relation to the gamestate, and I think might have been an attempt to swing attention away from the me/dunn/votato/skitter stuff going on - which I could see either as trying to derail a wagon on a buddy or like.. trying to derail the reads that the four of us were developing there.

Tux, what was your Dunn read when you posted this?

If I was to rank the initial situation from town to scum it would go Lilith, Skitter, Votato, and Dunn. I understood the wagon but didn't have that strong of a ping from anyone except you.

Derailing the current discussion with a weird entrance? That's what I said Beeboy was doing. Do scum me would do that, accuse someone of doing something as I was doing it?

im super skeptical of lilith, but at the same time pushing tux at this point feels really out there to do as scum?

I don't feel this way, they were catching up and someone had asked their thoughts about it specifically.

Also I kind of think the opposite of what Tux said about him happened - beeboy dove straight into the conversation about Dunn as well as the interactions between me and votato, and tried to engage directly with us in real time. I think scum would be more likely to take more of an arms' length approach to wagons and interactions not involving them

Could you elaborate on what you mean here?
I feel they did talk about the situation at hand, but I think it's pretty observably untrue that they "dove straight into the conversation". Their first post was page 2 and they didn't comment till page 4.

Hmm, I just don't know how else to express it. Like if you reread the game in context the wagon is forming on Dunn on page 1, and they aren't RVS votes. Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote. They post again at the end of page 3, only to reintroduce their entrance post. Content doesn't come from them till page 4. It's just so weird like he is there watching the game unfold but not commenting on anything, while the game seemed clearly passed RVS.

Besides all that.
I have town pings from MT, Lilith, and Kanna.

Votato and Nahdia aren't sitting right with me.

Weird that you still don't have a read on Dunn...

I don't feel strongly about them. I've played with scum Dunn before, they replaced scum you in that game actually, and it was very different from here. But also like the whole context of that game feels inapplicable here.

The more I read from this game, the more confused I get.

What is confusing you about this game?

VOTE: raven

Bleh, I don't like this post. It seemed you were building up to a scum read on me in your catch up. Where did it go? Was it just because in your catch you saw that people weren't pushing me anymore?
VOTE: Lilith

Idk if it’s really as easy as raven/nahdia but that’s kind of where I’m at

Can you elaborate on this? Something about it feels very off.

I think Drusilla is asking questions that I don't believe are particularly helpful for them solving people and I don't really understand the story they are trying to tell within their posts.

Do you think town players form stories? Are there specific questions you find unhelpful?

I actually feel weird about how my wagon collapsed.

Also VOTE: Lilith, the real vote is in the spoilers. So this is for Heccy boy.

[Raven Branwen]

i think i'm here right now

<Morning Tweet, Tuxedo Mask, votato>
<beeboy, Dunnstral>
<Clover Ebi, midwaybear>

<skitter30, lilith2013, Raven Branwen, Nahdia, drusilla> -- POE

I forgot to address this yesterday but can you explain your reasoning for this list? Like why are Tux and votato so high and Clover so low and obviously your PoE. is it ordered and why am I in it because you don’t have a solid read on me yet or have I actually done anything you see as scummy?

[Raven Branwen]

i mean i never said my clover scumread was that strong. but its still the strongest scumread i have? i mean clover has a point, but i dont think clover's scumread on me is any better. i think everyone is kinda waiting for scum to appear and reveal themselves, which for some reason they dont seem to want to do.

Well D1 is hard because it’s only when you get flips that you can really get good reads. I would say that I think it’s extremely unlikely that you and Clover are aligned, so if either one of you flips scum, the other one is very likely to be town.

[Raven Branwen]

and is that really your only take away from what has been an eventful 7 pages?

did you ever explain what exactly I said that was "stirring up both sides" of the Dunn wagon?

shading people defending dunn as well as people attacking dunn. you were fence-sitting and playing both sides.

I need to re-ISO her, I see a few people as having done that. Maybe she just expresses it more cohesively than Nahdia?

[Raven Branwen]

@Dunn, can you please answer my Skitter question? Thanks.

I feel like I've answer multiple times, the gist is that it seemed like a fake persona. a.k.a. not how she would naturally type out her posts, and I believe that to be scummy

I don’t have a very good history of correctly reading Skitter, so I wanted to understand this better, because I’m obviously not seeing that.

[drusilla]

skitter feels towny to me.

can you elaborate on this? also, do you mind sharing more of your conclusions? i have to admit i sometimes find it hard to follow your line of questioning/thought process (even though i find it fascinating!)

sure. skitter's play hasn't felt advantageous in the way i would expect it to if she were mafia. i asked her about potentially town indicative reasons for her use of exclamation points which she shot down in favour of 'good mood', which is nai. i don't see a mafia benefit to her engagement with dunnstral as it is very unlikely to be theatre (due to the way it began) and posts 113 and 120 made sense to me.

i am unsure as to which line of questioning/thought process you are finding it hard to follow but i can try to elucidate the main ones. i asked skitter about the exclamation marks because i too found them noteworthy and she was bristling at the mafia reasoning being assigned to them by dunnstral so i wanted to see how she would react to town reasoning being assigned to them. i explained why i asked beeboy about his reaction to tuxedo mask's first posts here (and here):

i guess beeboy is going to continue to ignore me. in post 164 he is self-conscious about commenting on the time stamps which would imply he had thought about it but in context it doesn't really make sense to me. tuxedo mask made his first post, then votato and beeboy each commented on it, then tuxedo mask elaborated on his first post. like it was a response to those. at least that's how i read it.

it stood out to me. like you weren't actually reading the posts beyond it being a scumread of you.

i asked dunnstral about the following:

i think skitter is town and lilith is prolly townish, but i think for lilith ill wait until later to sort her. i get solid townpings from votato. perhaps my strongest townread. something is off for sure about dunnstral. the logical conclusion is that dunn is scum.

My eyes are drawn to my name like a moth is drawn to a flame which provokes a primal rage that makes me not read the surrounding posts. Why are you talking about yourself like that in that post?

It's almost like that post was meant for somebody else to post...

this doesn't feel like a real thought. are you saying that votato might have written that post for somebody else to post but mistakenly posted it himself? or somebody else wrote that for somebody else to post and votato misunderstood and posted it? neither makes much sense to me.

because it felt like he was trying to say votato was mafia for a reason that didn't seem to hold up under even the most cursory of thought. i would still like dunnstral to address this.

How did the responses to these questions help you sort beeboy and nahdia (or how did you hope the responses would help with sorting them when you asked the questions)?

beeboy's response kinda helped me to see it from his perspective. or at least it feels consistent with his reaction. it is still hard for me to see that exchange as tuxedo mask making a read and then spending 25 minutes justifying it as opposed to elaborating on it due to reactions. i guess i was hoping for nahdia to explain why they made the original post because it seemed like an expectation they wouldn't actually have of other players so it seemed more likely to me that it was to preemptively explain possible observable differences in play. when they said that they were hoping someone would react to it i noted that it is strange that someone looking for reactions to their post would have missed my reaction, as well as the possibility that they had some way of gauging reactions to it, so i asked what reactions they were hoping for as well. from nahdia's response it seemed like they hadn't really thought about it but i didn't know what to make of that.

[skitter30]

i think, as scum here, it's probably very easy to just shove at me. but the way you're engaging seems less like "feeling out for a good mislynch" and more like an actual effort to sort me!

midway i'm tentative on because apparently he has a reputation for being scummy. i was back modding a game he was in where i kind of saw that. i would like to pressure that slot though. dunnstral i was fine with early because his initial vote was RVS and latching onto the tiniest reasons then is fine. but he's stubbornly held onto the read when i and others have asked him to go back and recontextualize it.

morningtweet was kind of gut. there was one post in particular that made me think "oh this person is actually trying to sort". 334.

i guess i just like ... idk
it's not like these reads/thoughts are impossible to come from town!you so much as i'd kinda expect there to be more .... heft maybe? or weight? or for them to be less shallow?
like i guess i think it's just more likely for scum!you to be approaching the game this way

also i disagree with your dunn read in that i think the fact that he's doubling down is low-key townie for him

mafia is weird because i dont like being scumread but it's also a lot easier to sort people when they're pressuring you. at least, i think so.
i shoul read lilith huh?

also i guess like if you're town do u think it would be easier for u to show ur towniness if i wasn't voting for you? i could back off a bit if u think that would give u room to be townie cuz we still have a lot of time but in a vacuum i think i still want to be voting u