In post 5441, mykonian wrote:So I remember the last team I really liked etc (gambit), weren't my team anymore when alex left. It just wasn't the same. They were bad before and bad after, but with him leaving it lost it's charm for me. I wonder how TSM fans feel now. Do they give up on it? Or are they so cynical to go with the argument that bjergsen was all tsm had anyway? Would they feel some misplaced loyalty to the TSM brand?
It's about being the fan of a franchise and what it represents, not a player.
In post 5472, BROseidon wrote:The issue isn't talent, it's infrastructure. This has been obvious for years
Yup. And it can never change either. Korean culture is simply more strict then western ones and that's why westerns usually have less dedication because their elders aren't more strict to let them focus on what needs to be done.
lollllllllllllllllllllll the "Asians work harder" stereotype.
There's a reason that the US is fairly dominant across a wide range of things (most sports included).
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Post #5478 (isolation #803) » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:49 pm
Postby BROseidon »
In post 5473, Shanba wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by infrastructure broseidon? Like, specifics - they're more organised because they're old Kespa teams and they've been around donkeys years so they understand how to build practice environments and team environments that bring the best out of players, but haven't the western teams really caught up on these parts in recent years? If it's coaches and support staff, I guess that's a thing, but that's also a talent issue in a way. For North America in particular as compared to EUW and Korea, though, there is legitimately just an issue that less people play league and so you're drawing from a smaller talent pool - and that really will hurt.
A few things:
1) We're catching up in support staff, but we don't have the understanding of best practices that they do. Our organizations aren't as good at taking talent and turning it into something great. Look at how great a lot of Korean players got this year after the exodus - they have a structure in place that lets them take any player with potential and turn them into real beasts. Compare that to what's happened to, like, Pobelter.
2) The second issue is valid, but it is also an infrastructure one. Esports isn't accepted to the same degree, so a lot of people haven't gone into it yet (it's sort of like why the US has historically been bad at soccer). The tradeoff for Korea is that they suck at a bunch of competitive stuff that the US is great at (or even just fine at... like soccer)
This seems like a shortsighted plan. He's clearly amazing (though the graves/lucian meta was far better for him), but he sounds like a pretty miserable person to have on your team.
I think it's a lot easier to work on attitude than it is to work on mechanical talent.
Still an amazingly terrible decision on SK's part. It was like they were literally trying to get relegated.
They couldn't know that beforehand. They had an absolute terrible time during Spring Playoffs because of conflict while actually being the top team during the season. The returned to the lineup they had reasonable success with last season, but the lineup together had just fallen apart beyond recovery at that point. And it's not like Gambit had much success with Forg1ven either so yeah.
They really should have, though.
SK was basically succeeding on the back of Forgiven/Sven and occasionally Fox. Nrated had been underperforming for a very long time, and Fredy only looked great between mid-summer S4 or so to about 1/2 way through spring split this year.
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Post #5581 (isolation #815) » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:51 am
Postby BROseidon »
In post 5579, Venmar wrote:I'm not too excited for RNG. I'm sure Alex Ich is still very very good, and Crumbz is definitely a solid player, but I feel like their top and their support are mediocre players at best. I'd imagine them to be a middle of the pack team at best depending on how well Crumbz and their top laner do.
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Post #5586 (isolation #816) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:07 am
Postby BROseidon »
Yup, Freeze to RNG. Freeze + Remilia could be scary as fuck.
Also, Ganked By Mom is confirmed by JAG to be playing in the NALCS next split - given that I don't think any teams are in the market for a midlaner, him being TSM's new top holds some water...
In post 5586, BROseidon wrote:Yup, Freeze to RNG. Freeze + Remilia could be scary as fuck.
Also, Ganked By Mom is confirmed by JAG to be playing in the NALCS next split - given that I don't think any teams are in the market for a midlaner, him being TSM's new top holds some water...
We talked a bit about the next split in scumchat, and idk, it smells like a liquid move. I don't know why they would want to drop fenix, but if you could get GBM...
It would be a terrible move by Liquid. Fenix is getting better - let him become GBM instead of taking a GBM who likely has a year or two less on his career left.
BROseidon wrote:lol @ people in the TSM roster announcement thread trying to say Hauntzer isn't top western talent.
Dude was the 3rd best top laner in NA last split.
that was so the wrong moment to use western
What use is it if he's 3rd in NA when he'd be 10th or so in the west? Suppose we don't even count the imports, then you'd still have soaz, zorozero, odoamne, wicked, fredy, czacsi, cabochard, zion, at least who talentwise are probably his betters.
I have no clue what sven does on this roster though. He lost to G2. Got relegated. Why the hell does the team that always plays for the championship want that guy. Hauntzer is serviceable and with bjergsen and doublelift that's probably all you want from toplane. Kasing got worlds experience, but might have had the perfect roster for him. Maybe that works out. But sven, idk man. That cannot have been the best option available.
Lol, hauntzer is def better than wickd, Fredy, czaci. He certainly performed on average better than Zion last split (Zion has higher highs but lower lows). Cabo is debatable - I'd put them around the same level. Zoro isn't worth talking about anymore since he's been out of the scene for so long.
The only western tops id rather have than hauntzer are odo, quas, in that order. Huni and impact would be on that list, but they're Korean.
Also, Sven was still good on SK. SK lost because of bad macro play + their bot lane and fredy being terribad.
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Post #5619 (isolation #822) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:42 pm
Postby BROseidon »
In post 5618, mykonian wrote:suppose that team played last worlds. Do you think they'd have made it out of groups?
Idk, it's fine for NA, but these aren't world beaters. Like maybe on just doublelift/bjergsen's talent they go to a championship, but I'd have to see it.
Depends a lot on team synergy/macro play, but the individual talent would definitely be there. Origen almost won that group with individual players that, on average, aren't much better. You also have to take into consideration that Origen was a team that was 4/5 vets, with Niels being the only player there who at this point is really getting better. Kasing and Hauntzer are both players that are early in their careers and have the potential to improve even further than they are right now (and both were already top 3 in their respective positions).
Sven has the most potential to not meet expectations here, imo, but he'd have to fall off from where he was even last split.
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Post #5625 (isolation #823) » Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:41 am
Postby BROseidon »
In post 5620, Shanba wrote:I guess I agree with Myko, I see them as a top NA team but I don't see them troubling the best teams in the world, who are just more talented.
Talent is something created by infrastructure. Koreans aren't genetically all gods at LoL - the teams have systems in place that let them develop talent in a much better way.
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Post #5627 (isolation #824) » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:16 am
Postby BROseidon »
In post 5626, KaleiÐoscøpe wrote:Not necesarrily though. How can Ever, a fresh challenger team, best the likes of skt and cj then? I think the main thing is that western succesful players tend to be more content with being good instead of becoming the best
I would venture that they have a lot of good money/coaching behind them, even as an amateur team.
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Post #5702 (isolation #832) » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:23 pm
Postby BROseidon »
In post 5698, mykonian wrote:How is that better than the already shown (and largely proven) origen, or even tsm's roster?
Odo>Hauntzer, I would say. Give it a year, and that may flip, but right now Odo is better. Odo > Soaz, imo, but they have different strengths (Odo doesn't tilt nearly as hard, Soaz has a much wider champion pool and goes off more)
Sven and Jankos are pretty even, depending on the day. I would rate both of them above Amazing.
Bjergsen>Ryu>PoE/xPeke
Forgiven>Niels>LiftLift
Kasing, Vander, and Mithy are all hard to rate. If we were to just go off mechanics/obvious impact, Vander is the best, but it's pretty obvious that Kasing and Mithy both contribute in huge ways that are harder to see (and I don't think Vander does as much).
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Post #5785 (isolation #850) » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:28 am
Postby BROseidon »
In post 5777, Cabd wrote:Of note: Richard Lewis is banned from Reddit for extreme hate speech and has a very lengthy history of anti-riot basis that got him kicked from some publications.
That said, the meat of the story is probably there. What Richards angle is however vs the truth remains to be seen.
Richard Lewis has no credibility anymore. He tanked his reputation super hard with how anti-Riot he's been when he's had effectively nothing.
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Post #5795 (isolation #851) » Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:38 am
Postby BROseidon »
For someone who has been doing esports journalism for 8 years, RL is kind of shit at it. Making yourself persona non grata with everyone you need to work with is pretty stupid.
