Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Kovu]

I do think flashwagons are more likely to come from town than coordinated scum efforts. It's a huge risk from a scum perspective to bunch up and try to tip the scales for a LHF misyeet D1.

yeah same, but it also like just depends, if it's scum that's definitely going down, maf wants to stay in front of that and claim town cred, so they'll be on as early as they can, not all maf but at least 1

[Rhyme and Reason]

you seem convinced I'm not town tbh, might actually mean you're scum.. usually you just like ignore me in games, yet here's the 2nd time you're like "Kovu can definitely be scum" like, what?

I'm not at all convinced that you're scum, I'm just not as convinced as some people that you're town. I think you could have played the way you did as either alignment.

It would be unusual for me to have any confident scumread on D1, let alone be "convinced" that someone is scum.

-Reason

[VP Baltar]

I do think flashwagons are more likely to come from town than coordinated scum efforts. It's a huge risk from a scum perspective to bunch up and try to tip the scales for a LHF misyeet D1.

yeah same, but it also like just depends, if it's scum that's definitely going down, maf wants to stay in front of that and claim town cred, so they'll be on as early as they can, not all maf but at least 1

Yeah, agreed. If lavar is scum, someone in that pile of votes is probably bussing.

[Kovu]

mmmk, and uhh yeah lava can go, I can't see myself TRing lava, I really can't get past "Enchant would do more as scum" like.. give a link to a game that gives you that thought, but, it feels so made up and bad... like, yeah..

VOTE: Lava

[Kovu]

I do think flashwagons are more likely to come from town than coordinated scum efforts. It's a huge risk from a scum perspective to bunch up and try to tip the scales for a LHF misyeet D1.

yeah same, but it also like just depends, if it's scum that's definitely going down, maf wants to stay in front of that and claim town cred, so they'll be on as early as they can, not all maf but at least 1

Yeah, agreed. If lavar is scum, someone in that pile of votes is probably bussing.

like, I was voting lava most of the day and no one showed any interest in joining me.... now.. "vote vote vote"

[Kovu]

Like, this is what gets me, the way the wagons moved...

Datisi(5) ~ marcistar (19), Val89 (32), Rhyme and Reason (39), Fey (49), SirCakez (196)
LavarManos(4)~ gorilla (92), Kovu (166), Meuh (173), fireisredsir (191)
marcistar(3)~ Lukewarm (94), VP Baltar (182), Dwlee99 (199)

That was the first, it turned into:

Bell(7)~ Lady Lambdadelta (175), Gammagooey (201), Datisi (239), VP Baltar (258), Fey (279), Dwlee99 (305), Rhyme and Reason (316)
LavarManos(3)~ gorilla (92), Kovu (166), fireisredsir (191)
Datisi(3)~ marcistar (19), Val89 (32), SirCakez (196)
takotsubo syndrome(2)~ LavarManos (290), Enchant (317)
marcistar(1)~ Lukewarm (94)
Enchant(1)~ Meuh (329)
SirCakez(1)~ Bell (301)

And then Lava wagon completely dissapears

marcistar(7)~ Gammagooey (497), gorilla (701), VP Baltar (702), Datisi (703), fireisredsir (713), SirCakez (717), LavarManos (775)
Datisi(2)~ marcistar (19), Val89 (32)
Bell(2)~ Lady Lambdadelta (175), Rhyme and Reason (316)
VP Baltar(2)~ Fey (560), Dwlee99 (692)
SirCakez(1)~ Bell (301)
Val89(1)~ Lukewarm (489)
Meuh(1)~ Kovu (627)
Lady Lambdadelta(1)~ Enchant (759)
Rhyme & Reason(1)~ Meuh (757)

and now, Lava is the leading wagon... like, votes on... to NOTHING... to leading wagon... very sus

[fireisredsir]

it is most of the same people who were on it before so it kinda makes sense that we would consolidate again, what's interesting is what new people decided to join and why they didn't want to before

[Lukewarm]

it is most of the same people who were on it before so it kinda makes sense that we would consolidate again, what's interesting is what new people decided to join and why they didn't want to before

As a new person who decided to join, it was mainly to save marci

I did not join before, because I thought (and still think) that Val is scummier.

Then Marci became the largest wagon, and I decided I did not want her to die, and my vote sitting on Val was not gonna accomplish that, and then there was movement onto Lava who was not on my Do Not Kill list, so I figured why not?

[Lukewarm]

I looked at his iso, and did not find a reason to not kill him here

[fireisredsir]

I did not join before, because I thought (and still think) that Val is scummier.

what do you think of val's vote?

[SirCakez]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: lavar

Late day surprise wagon! My favorite.

oh HECK yeah let's go

VOTE: Lavar

Why is LLD on this list and not RR?

Why would we be on the list? Before this post basically nobody had called us town.

This bit is something I would see myself post as scum tbh

I can go find examples of me saying similar stuff as town if you'd like (but only if it would help, it's time-consuming). Or we can just ask the many other people in the game who are familiar with me if it's AI.

I very much want to see a counterwagon to marci for reasons I already laid out, so even though I just got town vibes on Lavar I think it's proper to VOTE: Lavar

I haven't heard from Mena yet but I would expect him to agree with me.

-Reason

I don't want Marci. I realise my opinion on the matter might not count for much when I've been floated as an alternative, but I'll give it, since my lack of involvement in the wagon so far is probably clue enough as gamma pointed out previously.

I got a slight town ping from 40, although I accept that sort of thing could come from scum surprised a made-up read was endorsed by a townie, I also think it would be some co-incidence to hit the same ping on the 8 players posted pre-marci entrance on page 1. My initial reaction to Lukewarms' push there was that is was opportunistic garbage, and seeing datisi wholeheartedly jump on and endorse it with 'lolscum' whilst trying to give justification (albeit shit ones) for everyone else sealed the deal for me that the case was crap. Having seen luke temper and then reverse it leads me to believe the case there was initially deliberately exaggerated and oversold, and in truth is probably +town for luke as well as marci.

I've been voting datisi since "RVS" too, although it was never actually an RVS vote. I've deliberately chosen to be cagey about my reads, which may have led to the impression there is a lack of scum hunting going on, too. Those are the reasons I see given for the wagon now, and I can't see them as scummy because I know there is at least one genuine thought process that results in those same outward signs.

I've not given too much though to LavarManos since I noted datisi's strange justification for that read, which when examined I strongly disagreed with, and thought had to be basically invented. I might have been hasty there, if for no other reason that nothing prevents scum from inventing reasons for giving a 'slightly scummy maybe?' read on a partner.

If this is the two we are going with;

VOTE: LavarManos

All of these people are null to scum - over half of the wagon and all of the later votes. Definitely could be scum driven.

[SirCakez]

And there was a big wagon on Marci who is pretty much a universal scum read. Why did that fall apart? Town evidence for Marci hasn't suddenly come to light

[SirCakez]

If there's gonna be a counter to Marci I'd rather do Val, RR or go back to Baltar

[VP Baltar]

And there was a big wagon on Marci who is pretty much a universal scum read. Why did that fall apart? Town evidence for Marci hasn't suddenly come to light

^trying hard to save lavar.

[SirCakez]

And there was a big wagon on Marci who is pretty much a universal scum read. Why did that fall apart? Town evidence for Marci hasn't suddenly come to light

^trying hard to save lavar.

Obviously lol I think he's town

[SirCakez]

did u miss that whole ass discussion me and luke had about my voting tendencies

who do you scumread besides datisi?

datisi, datisi, datisi, datisi, and datisi

sircakez

maybe luke idk i feel like even though i have a bad memory, i feel like nothing has really made me go ": O" in his posts

Marci isn't even trying to scum hunt look back at this post
She has developed nothing all game except for her repeated attacks on Datisi and me. I don't believe she's actually scum hunting.

[Datisi]

oh, i just thought of a possible NEW tell for baltar! will have to wait until i have more than 3 working brain cells to check if it's actually true, but this is exciting news

[Rhyme and Reason]

All of these people are null to scum - over half of the wagon and all of the later votes. Definitely could be scum driven.

If the

later

votes are the scum ones then how is it scum-driven? Wouldn't it be town-driven but scum just decided to jump on? (And for scum to have a reason to jump on would pretty much necessarily imply that marci is scum, otherwise they wouldn't care, so it wouldn't make sense for one of these people to be the CW to marci.)

-Reason

[Kovu]

UNVOTE:
Lava is town

[Kovu]

VOTE: Val
This might be good tbh, cause I'm building up my reads on logic here (wow shocking I know) and just a lot of the ends lie with Val and interactions related to that slot

[SirCakez]

All of these people are null to scum - over half of the wagon and all of the later votes. Definitely could be scum driven.

If the

later

votes are the scum ones then how is it scum-driven? Wouldn't it be town-driven but scum just decided to jump on? (And for scum to have a reason to jump on would pretty much necessarily imply that marci is scum, otherwise they wouldn't care, so it wouldn't make sense for one of these people to be the CW to marci.)

-Reason

Yes that's fair. More accurate would be that scum are taking advantage of town willingness to wagon elsewhere.

[SirCakez]

This is a game I am in.

Oh yeah I would for sure wagon this too

[SirCakez]

VOTE: LLD

Aye

Or this I didn't really have a read on Enchant but it's pretty crappy that this was the only thing he had to offer recently

[Rhyme and Reason]

Yes that's fair. More accurate would be that scum are taking advantage of town willingness to wagon elsewhere.

Sure. And my understanding is that when picking a CW you want to have at least one scum in the two if possible; otherwise you get pretty much no info. So it doesn't really make a lot of sense to wagon marci alongside someone who's only likely to be scum if she also is. In fact, if marci is scum, then I think we'd want a townie to be wagoned alongside her, so that we can see what stances people take and why.

It's not too late for wagons to move around but if we do end up with two dueling wagons at the end of the day, and one flips town, it's probably a good idea to aim invictus shots at the other one, if there is no better target.

-Reason

[SirCakez]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: lavar

Late day surprise wagon! My favorite.

why should i vote lavar?

Hi all. 125 posts per day doesn't seem like too much of a restriction.
I actually like Fey for bandwagoning to Datisi, but don't really have any opinion on the other votes or anyone else rlly

VOTE: Meuh
I feel like you're trying to do too much out of the gate? I mean, if you're town, I don't want to discourage you from solving. But it doesn't feel natural to me at least.

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
sorta sus that nobody has voted this slot yet

I find it weird that Val didn't reelly respond to anything Lukewarm said about him
VOTE: Val

She is here, and posting - but she is not championing me as the scummiest person in the thread lol

Nah I disagree. Feels like she has been attacking Datisi and VPB a lot. You aren't even calling her scum anymore. I scumread her recent posting style too.
VOTE: Marci

There's nothing wrong with any of these votes IMO