Open 558: Hope Plus 1 (GAME OVER!)

[Marcrell]

The jury doesn't seem to think so. I've tried the same tactic fake claiming in another game(live). I acted like it was incredibly obvious that I was town, and town would have to be stupid to lynch me. Actually won when a watcher followed a PGO and put us in control of the lynch. Really wish you guys would post more. I too would like action on this. As long as you're sure in your decision.

[Rob14]

Wickedestjr has been prodded.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey guys, I'm really sorry about my recent inactivity. Been very distracted these past few days.

Tomorrow, this game will be my top priority. I'm still looking at the interactions. I think I have some questions for ProHawk as well.

I think I'm leaning towards a Marcrell vote if I had to choose right this second, but it's probably 65-35 right now.

[awestfie]

I'm sorry as well, I've been busy for the last couple of days and never actually got to follow up on the things that I wanted to follow up on.

Very likely that I'll follow up on those things today,

[Wickedestjr]

ProHawk

- You claim that you are the macho doctor. So, if you were mafia...
1. How would you have played differently?
2. How would you have treated or interacted with Shaded?
3. Who would you have voted for on day 4?
4. Who would you have nightkilled night 4?
5. What would you have done last night?

[Wickedestjr]

Okay, so I was 65-35 before, but now I'm less confident.

I looked at the meta for Kodama's members; pieguyn and displaced. displaced was only scum once and his only partner had died before he replaced in, so no interaction meta for him. Took me a while to find a scum game of pieguyn's but I found one- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go. In that game, his most recent completed scum game, he gave his two partners lots of attention and voted both of them at some point. He never voted Armageddon, but he gave him a lot of attention day 1. At the end of that other game, somebody said;

Oh hey, a pie completed scumgame on MS.

...as if it was rare for him to finish a game as scum. And that was the most recent completed scum game that I could find. It is slightly bothersome that he replaced out of this game.

Here's an example of Kodama paying special attention to Armageddon;

Oh I'm absolutely fine, how are you?

Welp, after much consideration and reading through I'm beginning to get town vibes which leads me to suspect that awest is town.

Unvote

is that really all you have to say

what are your other reads?

Kodama is acting like Armageddon's lack of reads is problematic... on page 2. It is strange that they pay special attention to him for that reasoning.

Would be comfortable lynching in [Arma/Yankee]. Both are newbies and flaking *is* a scumtell for newb players.

This doesn't seem telling interaction-wise, but it's still a terrible post for reasons I outlined here.

Well I have to say I was concerned with Shaded yesterday (having RVS in play for a loooong time mainly) but today his posts seem very town motivated.

This is the only town read that Kodama provides all game.

TL;DR -

+Scum points for ProHawk

[Wickedestjr]

Now I'm looking at Marcrell's posts regarding Shaded and Armageddon.

Note: I knew that Marcrell attacked Shaded, but just now realized that this didn't come until after Shaded bussed Armageddon. Coincidence? Or scum tell?

From a quick glance, feeling townish on Egg, Kodama, and ShadedMelee. RandomModget seems a bit odd. Stabsinthe seems a little less suspicious, but still suspicious.

Reads... ShadedMelee/Kodama seem to have well-reasoned posts. Liking what they're doing so far. Egg is more gut, I just like him. RandomMidget says he's worried about a quick lynch when we need seven to vote and the most someone has is two votes. Behavior seems odd. Stab, see previous post.

Loyal scum buddy? Avoids town reading Armageddon here (even though he later does) possibly to avoid looking too loyal.

Can't rebute most of what Wicked said, I have a major fence sitting tendency. YankeeReaper asked me a while back my thoughts on Thomas, so I may as well respond now. He seems to have reasons like me, general and unspecific. Took a lot from a joke and changes his vote, might have reconsidered his stance in the game and used that as an excuse to change it. It would also appear I mistakes Shaded's post with one or several other people's. Don't see what I remember in his ISO.

This looks bad for Marcrell. He doesn't remember why he town read Shaded? Like he feels guilty for town reading Shaded here or he's afraid to explain his town read.

ShadedMelee: Town lean. Not too much in the way of reading(some), ask a couple questions about reads.

Now he remembers.

I hope this was worth the wait folks! A detailed analysis!
Armageddon: In most posts he explains his votes, asks questions, gives reasons. Much decent content. A few suspicious bumps along the way, but overall he is Town leaning.

Now he also town reads Armageddon, but even this is kind of fence-sitty because he acknowledges suspicious bumps along the way. He could easily bus if he felt the need to later, just by referencing said suspicious bumps.

Spoiler: Marcrell's Big Armageddon Post

You guys made me do this know that. Quotes! These will come slowly since I'm on my phone and am a little busy.

Nevermind. Found my role PM.

Unvote. I need to think this through since I am town affiliated.

VOTE: stabsinthe

Why do you feel the need to say that? Almost feels to me like you need to hide the fact your scum by saying you're town.

Pushed same as me. A lot of these will be me pointing out why I found X about a person until I get to somebody I haven't done.

68

I was merely replying to a statement.

Slightly scummy: tn5421

Just what about tn do you find slightly scummy? Personally I think he has valid points and your post could easily be confused for trying to get the PR's to claim.

Not seeing his claim of trying to get PR's to claim.

I already had my suspicions that he was macho doctor to be totally honest with the way he was cop hunting. Either Doctor or Mafia, there was just a higher statistical chance of him being mafia (3 Mafia, 2 doctors). Either way it was bad for him to post who he thought the cop was, so it fit for both.

UNVOTE:

I shall have to look over everything again. Although claiming doctor in this scenario does seem a bit suspicious to my eyes, especially the way he did it. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It didn't seem like he thought he was doc. But he is analyzing, producing content.

The quickhammer came out of left field, I won't be putting anyone else at L-1 as long as awestfie is still alive now that I know she's the kind of person to make people go splat.

VOTE: tn5421

You put him at L1 but didn't expect anyone to lynch him? Honestly it kind of looks to me like you put him at L-1 HOPING someone would quick lynch him, then now you try and claim that it came out of left field, seems fishy to me.

He purposefully put Thomas on L-1. Now he claims that he wasn't expecting anyone to quickhammer, but if you put someone at L-1 then they'll either be hammered or not. Now he says that he wont put anyone else at L-1 because of what awe did. Have a look at p5955218 and then p5960137 he claims that he agrees with awe's quickhammer, then the instant Thomas shows as town he does a complete 180 and says that quickhammering Thomas was bad. Just seems very fishy to me, like he planned it.

There are three possabilities for this

#1 - Tn is scum and was hoping for a quick-hammer on Thomas to get the mislynch.
#2 - Both Tn and awe are scum and saw an oppotunity to work together to get the quicklynch on Thomas, and then Tn voting awe and awe voting Tn be a form of distancing/bussing to hide this.
#3 - Tn and awe are town but made the mistake of putting him on L-1 and hammering respectively.

As long as option 1 and 2 remain a possability then my vote will stay.

Tn:
229 and 273: Putting Thomas to L-1 without any stated reason, and then blaming awe for quick-hammering after it became obvious that she will be under pressure for doing that. I think when several people stated suspicions on himself (like when i told i will iso him, and awe voted him), he decided to push the wagon on Thomas.
254: Wow, this post is scummy as hell. Voting somebody that you don't believe to be scum. Gotta be kidding.
301: Refusing to defend himself deliberately, trying to be low-profile. Why would a townie do that?

Awe shouldn't have quickhammered then, I was more interested in information.
Anti-Town is one step away from scum.
Because I fucking feel like it.

You were more interested in information, and yet you made no effort to actually get that information from Thomas before the lynch went down, why?

Made a good case against tn. Not the first, but a good case.

Seems like he's town reading Armageddon again here.

I just realized after looking for quotes that my reads were horrible and I should burn them. I'll get away from that for now. Sorry for the delay wicked, yes I believe he is mafia, or at least likely to be. My suspicion of him is very strong. Don't like his play at all.

AGAIN. Marcrell retracts a town read on a flipped scum. Remember that he did the same with Shaded on day 1, above. Hasn't done that with anybody else yet. This is a serious issue.

MARCRELL, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON SHADED RIGHT NOW?

Leaning scum. He's done ok, but I don't like his case against you now, and this post:

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

struck me as suspicious. I've seen scum do very similar things to people who seem inexperienced to then manipulate them to their side. Lost a lylo that way once(off-site).

This is the first time that Marcrell expresses suspicion of Shaded despite town reading him all game prior. This is also the first post after Shaded had bussed Armageddon. Maybe Marcrell decided to bus after he saw his partner do the same. More potential bussing here;

Spoiler: Bussing?

Ugg, I guess there isn't any way to get out of this anymore ....

Wicked, if you are town like you say you are, you just narrowed down the pool of potential candidates and I am likely to be killed anyway, so there really isn't any point to theory discussions although I would have much rather stayed under the radar.

I am the Macho Doc and I protected Wicked last night.

I wasn't sure if I was going to do this today, but you've forced my hand. I'm the macho doc, this guy is scum. Coincidentally, I actually did protect Wickedjsrt last night. Awestfie night 1, Ragnarok night 2, forgot about the game night 3 and didn't protect anybody.

I'm fairly sure he thought Titus/Randomidget was his partner. It's been said, but hammer was bad, reasoning is bad, Shaded should probably die soon.

What part of my reasoning you found "bad"? It was quite a rational choice from my perspective.

Town shouldn't quick-hammer without a claim. Doing it out of self-preservation is scum-motivated. Everybody wants to stay alive, but town shouldn't make horrible plays to avoid it. Unless we're lynching you and that lynch will lose the game, hammering somebody early is horrible town play, and very scum-motivated.

I just realized if wicked is scum awe is not (because they would hammer Marcrell and win)

Awe you should really start trusting me because i think your worst nightmare is true. It is either Wicked & Pro or Wicked & Marcrell. Which one do you think is more probable?

This looks pretty shitty. Desperate attempt to get one person on your side.
Meanwhile Prohawk is saying he was conf town. He claimed when I wasn't on and then got credit for it. Why would I cc when people are town-reading his claim if I'm scum? Prohawk, could you list who you protected every noght, not just last night's?

TL;DR - Marcrell's interactions actually look really bad for him. Much worse than Kodama's. The most telling thing for me is how he town reads both Shaded and Armageddon, but immediately retracts both when challenged - he doesn't do that with any of his other town reads. I also find it weird that Marcrell starts attacking Shaded after Shaded bussed Armageddon.

+Scum points for Marcrell x3

[Wickedestjr]

I was literally 50-50 after checking Kodama earlier today. But now I'm growing confident that Marcrell is scum. Maybe 80-20 now.

Three most telling things for me;
Marcrell's voting followed Armageddon and Shaded

perfectly

on day 1 as if their voting patterns dictated his.
Marcrell town read Armageddon and Shaded but retracted both town reads when challenged. Never retracts any other town reads like this iirc.
Marcrell first attacked Shaded after Shaded attacked Armageddon, as if Shaded's bus demonstrated that it was okay for Marcrell to bus.

If Marcrell is town, then those are three big coincidences.

[awestfie]

I'll be around in like 10 minutes, if you're still going to be here Wicked. Let me know if you want to talk about something with I.

[Wickedestjr]

I thoroughly examined Armageddon's interactions with both Marcrell and Kodama. By that, I mean that I looked at Armageddon's offhand Marcrell comment.

Armageddon pretty much ignored both of them. Between the two, I'd say it's most strange that Armageddon ignored Kodama considering how much Kodama focused on him. e.g. Kodama asked Armageddon a question and Armageddon ignored it like he didn't feel the need to respond. That could be a scum tell, but not strong enough for "+Scum points".

P-edit: Okay awestfie. I should be around for a while. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts regarding the posts I've made today.

[awestfie]

Sorry, still here?

[awestfie]

Wicked:

What do you think about Marcrell not saving anyone on night 3?
   - Do you think he would fake that, as mafia?

Also, I think the fact that the Kodama replaced so early in the game with a huge lack of activity is a huge scum-tell; and that's the thing that's bothering me the most about ProHawk. I've said this before: "Pieguyn is still around on the site and the one that went inactive seems to be Displaced; while I don't think this changes all that much, just keep in mind that: one head of the hydra has been around and didn't post at all during that time." This was before Kodama was replaced but during the time they weren't postig here. So, Displaced was the one who went missing and not Pieguyn, but it would make sense that Pieguyn wouldn't post during that time since it would easily match up with the meta-read on her that states that she clearly doesn't like being scum.

[awestfie]

...was before Kodama was replaced but during the time they weren't postig here...

Posting*

And, I'll agree with you that the interactions from Marcrell to the two other scum-buddies, especially Shaded, looks bad. Honestly, to me the interactions that Shaded/Marcrell had felt artificial.

The interactions between Shaded/Marcrell that I thought looked artificial:

End of Day 2

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

I can hammer, if you so desire. I thought another day of attempted discussion was a good idea. How long until deadline?

We have two days left. I don't think our lurkers will return in the mean time. And nobody is putting forward new reads/ideas. I am perfectly content with tn lynch.
You may hammer anytime before the deadline, just make it sure we don't hit a no-lynch.

VOTE: tn5421 Hell, guess this was the inevitable conclusion of today. Tomorrow, I'll be very interested in what Boonskies does tomorrow, and if tn flips town, that will add whole new reads to the game.

Start of Day 3

awest, are you willing to vote Shaded?

MARCRELL, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON SHADED RIGHT NOW?

Mod: Given that we've had two slots replaced and I was on a long V/LA (and we make up half the player list), would it be possible for us to have a little extra time for today?

Leaning scum. He's done ok, but I don't like his case against you now, and this post:

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

struck me as suspicious. I've seen scum do very similar things to people who seem inexperienced to then manipulate them to their side. Lost a lylo that way once(off-site).

The interactions at the end of day 2 really don't feel natural upon re-reading them; I don't know if it's just me. And, if something stuck you as suspicious, why didn't you point it out right away? It's not like you had five minutes to hammer; there was still a good chunk of time left on day 2. I find it odd that, after hammering, you only pointed it out on the next day.

And upon re-reading, I really don't like this:

Awestfie could be scum heavy bussing, using his strong vote on tn for credit. But he was the same way with Thomas, so there is the possibility he's playing like that this game.

Marcrell was trying to keep all possibilities open, which to me is a scum-tell. It's a really inefficient way of scum-hunting.

[awestfie]

Honestly, my initial read going into this day was ProHawk as scum and I know he's going to "laugh" at me for saying this since he thinks this game is so "easy." But at this point I'm really unsure; I feel like most things are pointing towards Marcrell, but the replacement from Kodama and the confidence from ProHawk is what's bothering me.

[Wickedestjr]

What do you think about Marcrell not saving anyone on night 3?
   - Do you think he would fake that, as mafia?

I don't know. That's one of the reasons why I originally felt good about his claim. Either he's trickier than he lets on and came up with that to try and fool us. Or maybe he forgot to talk to Armageddon/Shaded in the QT that night and decided that he would've also forgotten to protect if he were town. Or he just couldn't come up with an action that sounded believable. I don't know for sure. I also thought it was weird for him to say he protected Ragnarok night 2 - he would have had to think about it and realize that Ragnarok could die even with protection. If I were scum, I would have thought: Ragnarok died that night, can't say I protected him, and quickly chosen someone else.

Also, I think the fact that the Kodama replaced so early in the game with a huge lack of activity is a huge scum-tell; and that's the thing that's bothering me the most about ProHawk.

Yeah that might be a scum tell for pieguyn.

I've said this before: "Pieguyn is still around on the site and the one that went inactive seems to be Displaced; while I don't think this changes all that much, just keep in mind that: one head of the hydra has been around and didn't post at all during that time."

I forgot / didn't realize that displaced went inactive. Looking through his isolation, seems like he made posts on June 28th, nothing for a while, one post on July 8th, nothing for a while, posts on July 16th. He probably didn't post through Kodama during that time. June 28th just happens to be the last day that pieguyn posted maybe because displaced had gone inactive. Maybe pieguyn joined this game solely to hydra with displaced and lost interest when he stopped playing? Or he lost interest because he was scum...

[awestfie]

Have to point this out, by the way:

You should vote for Egg instead.

Nah.

What, is he your scum partner or something?

Nah.

You are.

If you remove the word scum in that, I did pretty much call it on day 1; since we are technically partners here.

P-Edit: Cool, you're still here. I thought you left because of how long I took to post.

Honestly, Shaded could've just buddied with Marcrell a lot, in an attempt to make it look like they're partners, since he probably saw that Marcrell would've been the easy lynch today; which is why I think ProHawk could potentially be confident here. Then again, I think he'd be confident here if Marcrell was scum for the same reasons; so both of these sort of null each other out.

I honestly can't make up my mind on who is scum here and hopefully that will change soon. I really don't like how Kodama was replaced and that's the only thing bothering me. Had they had more content before being replaced then; I wouldn't mind, but they didn't.

[awestfie]

Also, I was there during that whole time after you voted Shaded until to the point where I hammered, because I was planning to hammer. One thing that struck me as odd was; ProHawk took a long time to vote him despite saying he was ready to vote him.

I am ready to put Shaded at L-1, but we need our protection details please so he can't self-hammer.

VOTE: Shaded

I just don't like how there was a 55 minutes gap between these two posts when we gave him the protection details right after he posted.

[Wickedestjr]

Read post 887. You made good points. I agree that Marcrell/Shaded feels weird, like a rehearsed play starring two people that

absolutely aren't connected

.

"Marcrell, I don't know you and I've never talked to you before, but you seem like town. Mind hammering tn?" - Shaded

And Marcrell has been on the fence wrt all his reads. Like he's afraid his reads will receive criticism.

Honestly, my initial read going into this day was ProHawk as scum and I know he's going to "laugh" at me for saying this since he thinks this game is so "easy." But at this point I'm really unsure; I feel like most things are pointing towards Marcrell, but the replacement from Kodama and the confidence from ProHawk is what's bothering me.

I was very split coming into today, but I'm leaning towards Marcrellscum. Too many coincidences for him to be town.

It is bothersome that Kodama replaced out, but there are town explanations for that. ProHawk's certainty that Marcrell is scum and stretchy arguments are unhelpful, but I'm not sure it's a scum tell - this is win or lose regardless of his alignment, he has to survive and he has to get Marcrell lynched. I don't think it's a scum tell that he'll do anything to get Marcrell lynched because if he's town, it's confirmed to him and it has to happen if he wants to win.

[Wickedestjr]

If you remove the word scum in that, I did pretty much call it on day 1; since we are technically partners here.

Haha, yep. We are mason partners right now.

P-Edit: Cool, you're still here. I thought you left because of how long I took to post.

Here now, but unfortunately in ~10 minutes I'll have to leave for two or three hours.

[Wickedestjr]

Looking at Shaded's interactions now. It's possible that he planned on town reading and protecting both but decided to bus Armageddon when it looked like he was doomed.

Spoiler: Defending a partner?

Marcrell's ISO looks null to me. I really do not understand the case against him.

What don't you understand?

I will try to explain by quoting your reasons:

I apologize for not explaining my vote immediately. It was 1:34 am and I just had to get to sleep.

Reasons why I voted for Marcrell;
-It does not seem like he actually has an interest in figuring out who the mafia are. He has voted his suspect and provided several other reads, however, he has not asked anyone any questions, has done nothing to really strengthen any of his reads. You'd think that he'd want to learn more about the guy he's voting at least. But I guess he doesn't.

This is true, but not indicative. We have many players that does not seem to scumhunt properly like Arma, Yankee, random, and even egg (although i read him strongly town).

-I have issue with Marcrell's vote for Stabsinthe. Stabsinthe is clearly pretty inexperienced, so the vote looks really easy. If Stabsinthe is town, then there is no difficulty for scum to vote him for such obvious/basic reasoning. I get the impression that Marcrell voted Stabsinthe because it was the easiest option. Now Marcrell has revealed that his suspicion of Stabsinthe has weakened, however, his vote remains. This seems like a minor fence sit - he has left open all of his options (keep vote on Stabsinthe or switch his vote). It looks like he's given himself room to switch his vote as soon as he notices the momentum switching. But the vote is still there in case others decide to join the wagon.

I agree with this, but he may as well considering his options and trying to read other posts while doing this. Very minor scum-tell.

-It seems like his reads are designed to bother as few people as possible. His three townish reads on Kodama, Shaded, and Egg are all popular town reads iirc. I don't think anyone has town read randommidget yet, but he has been questioned. Marcrell thinks randommidget is 'odd' for the same reason that he was questioned. 'Odd' is a fence sit word - he could say that randommidget is suspicious for the 'odd' behavior or he could say that the 'odd' behavior is odd and just odd (I have seen that before). He hasn't taken a stance yet. I can't help but think that he's waiting to see what the popular stance is before he decides his.

This looks like a behaviour of an inexperienced player. They almost always tend to follow popular opinions. Not a scum-tell for me. Also i saw many townies use the word 'odd'. Even i have used it in this game. Again, not a scum-tell for me.

Conclusion: Considering his total acceptance of your reasons and VI-like posts & defence, i would tell he is null.

tn & random's analysis will follow.

In the latter of those two quotes, note that Shaded wrote off Marcrell's suspicious behavior as inexperienced. He also says that many players here don't know how to scum hunt, so Marcrell is fine. Keep that in mind.

Kodama's change of play from first day also concerns me. He was very townish at Day 1, yet he contributed zero today, plus posting conflicting one liners.
If it had been a cult game, i would have said he has been recruited last night. 313 and 350 are totally out of context that looks like trying to divert the attention of us.

He is either trying to protect one of his pressured scummates which i think in {random, tn}, or it is just a discoordination between his hydra heads.

That's why i do not like playing with hydras. If the head's playstyles are different, when one head vanishes temporarily, playstyle changes completely and confuses the town.

This doesn't seem like bussing. In particular, I have trouble seeing him complain about his partner.

I hope this was worth the wait folks! A detailed analysis!
Armageddon: In most posts he explains his votes, asks questions, gives reasons. Much decent content. A few suspicious bumps along the way, but overall he is Town leaning.
Awestfie: Lots of questions, stimulating conversation, more hunting. I worded my earlier post badly, I meant in the same way in Thomas as you're going very hard for a lynch as soon as possible on tn today and the quickhammer on Thomas yesterday. Seems very motivated to lynch those he scumreads. Town lean.
I really regret coming on now, so tireeeedddd.
Boonskiies/TheYankeeReaper: Null. Barely any posts, not enough to go on.
Egg: His posts have content. Lots. I think especially today, after he started analyzing the lynch, he has the post numbers and analysis. Town. So definitely.
Guys, it's 12 A.M., I can't do this anymore. I'll give you the rest tomorrow, I just can't take anymore of this.

I really did not like this post. It looks artificial.

This is a really weird thing for Shaded to say when he previously wrote off Marcrell's contributions as 'inexperienced' and said many players didn't know how to scumhunt. This looks like he's opening the door for bussing.

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

@Mod:

Kodama did not post for a loong looong time and he was not V/LA. Can you just prod/replace/bark to him?
Possibly randommidget too.

Cool, at least we got one mafia down.

@Mod

I do support replacement of Kodama.

Here he points out the Shaded was on both lynches. He says that he previously thought Shaded was the cop. Scum could be trying to put out a fire before it starts. Haven't gathered much about Shaded with a glance through his ISO, will look in more detail,

I think it is an attempt from scum to make me appear more suspicious. I know this is WIFOM but why should i kill Egg if i had been the scum, it would be too obvious with that recent post. I have a bad feeling that i have been chosen as the mislynch candidate of today by scum. Once again i request everyone to ISO wicked, especially the last day's play was hyper-suspicious.

I'm fairly sure he thought Titus/Randomidget was his partner. It's been said, but hammer was bad, reasoning is bad, Shaded should probably die soon.

What part of my reasoning you found "bad"? It was quite a rational choice from my perspective.

So... Shaded, you quick-hammered for self-preservation?

I quick-hammered because town was about to half-lose the game by lynching me and lynching a popular scum read did not seem worse than that to me. I don't see how this looks as "self-preservation" to you. If i had been lynched, we would be in the same situation as now. If my gambit had not fail, we would be close to winning the game. That was not a bad choice.

Shaded you missed my question from before; Is it more likely that Marcrell is mafia or ProHawk?

I was leaning towards you & Marcrell, but after this last page of interactions i now lean towards you & Prohawk.
My nose smells bussing here.

Awe you and me are the key here. Please hear my voice.

[Wickedestjr]

Aww shoot. Didn't mean to submit that post yet. Not sure how I accidentally did.

[awestfie]

Yeah, that's okay; I've to leave now, so. We've a decent amount of time to make a decision and I'd personally not like to rush it due to how unsure I seem to be; although I'm not saying we should delay it too much for that reason. I'll be more active than I've been in the last few days from now on; it's just been a rough week for me, that's all. I hope to see Marcrell/ProHawk's thoughts on all of this by the next time I come to visit this thread.

I'll be back in around five to six hours.

P-Edit: The biggest thing that I don't like between Shaded/Marcrell is the fact that Shaded randomly was confident that Marcrell was town in post 453. He never really voiced that town-read out-loud before stating that and he was just constantly pushing him to out and update his reads in the previous posts.

i will reread the whole thread focusing on tn and randommidget. Also i will check marcrell to clarify wickeds question.
ragnarok, kodama, egg and wicked are all strong town reads.
unsure about yankee and arma, they may just happen to be townie lurkers or may turn out to be scum.
awe may go both way, but we should leave her for today imo.

This was the only thing he said about Marcrell about reads prior to the "random town-read." Actually, no; I take that back:

What don't you understand?

I will try to explain by quoting your reasons:

I apologize for not explaining my vote immediately. It was 1:34 am and I just had to get to sleep.

Reasons why I voted for Marcrell;
-It does not seem like he actually has an interest in figuring out who the mafia are. He has voted his suspect and provided several other reads, however, he has not asked anyone any questions, has done nothing to really strengthen any of his reads. You'd think that he'd want to learn more about the guy he's voting at least. But I guess he doesn't.

This is true, but not indicative. We have many players that does not seem to scumhunt properly like Arma, Yankee, random, and even egg (although i read him strongly town).

-I have issue with Marcrell's vote for Stabsinthe. Stabsinthe is clearly pretty inexperienced, so the vote looks really easy. If Stabsinthe is town, then there is no difficulty for scum to vote him for such obvious/basic reasoning. I get the impression that Marcrell voted Stabsinthe because it was the easiest option. Now Marcrell has revealed that his suspicion of Stabsinthe has weakened, however, his vote remains. This seems like a minor fence sit - he has left open all of his options (keep vote on Stabsinthe or switch his vote). It looks like he's given himself room to switch his vote as soon as he notices the momentum switching. But the vote is still there in case others decide to join the wagon.

I agree with this, but he may as well considering his options and trying to read other posts while doing this. Very minor scum-tell.

-It seems like his reads are designed to bother as few people as possible. His three townish reads on Kodama, Shaded, and Egg are all popular town reads iirc. I don't think anyone has town read randommidget yet, but he has been questioned. Marcrell thinks randommidget is 'odd' for the same reason that he was questioned. 'Odd' is a fence sit word - he could say that randommidget is suspicious for the 'odd' behavior or he could say that the 'odd' behavior is odd and just odd (I have seen that before). He hasn't taken a stance yet. I can't help but think that he's waiting to see what the popular stance is before he decides his.

This looks like a behaviour of an inexperienced player. They almost always tend to follow popular opinions. Not a scum-tell for me. Also i saw many townies use the word 'odd'. Even i have used it in this game. Again, not a scum-tell for me.

Conclusion: Considering his total acceptance of your reasons and VI-like posts & defence, i would tell he is null.

tn & random's analysis will follow.

He calls him null here and the posts after this one that are towards Marcrell are:

I am glad wicked dropped his case against Marcell. But a detailed analysis of all players would be appreciated from Marcell to allow us a better read. He still stays at my null-list.

I scumread both tn and random, for the time being my vote stays on tn as my gut says awes is right.

@Marcell: why did you ignore my request?

I am glad wicked dropped his case against Marcell. But a detailed analysis of all players would be appreciated from Marcell to allow us a better read. He still stays at my null-list.

I hope this was worth the wait folks! A detailed analysis!
Armageddon: In most posts he explains his votes, asks questions, gives reasons. Much decent content. A few suspicious bumps along the way, but overall he is Town leaning.
Awestfie: Lots of questions, stimulating conversation, more hunting. I worded my earlier post badly, I meant in the same way in Thomas as you're going very hard for a lynch as soon as possible on tn today and the quickhammer on Thomas yesterday. Seems very motivated to lynch those he scumreads. Town lean.
I really regret coming on now, so tireeeedddd.
Boonskiies/TheYankeeReaper: Null. Barely any posts, not enough to go on.
Egg: His posts have content. Lots. I think especially today, after he started analyzing the lynch, he has the post numbers and analysis. Town. So definitely.
Guys, it's 12 A.M., I can't do this anymore. I'll give you the rest tomorrow, I just can't take anymore of this.

I really did not like this post. It looks artificial.

I do not see Arma's decent content. I do not see stimulating conversation from awes. Boonskiies read is just empty that looks like used for space filling. Egg is a popular town read.

What are your thoughts on other players? Wicked, me, tn, Kodama, random?

@Marcrell, why don't you vote? I see no votes in your iso, or do i miss something?

And also could you please give your reads on other people than the ones you mentioned in 399?

Sigh, upon re-reading that we should REALLY have lynched Shaded way earlier. This doesn't even make any sense, he states that his post is artificial yet randomly he town-reads him a few posts later.

[awestfie]

There's no natural transition between Shaded calling Marcrell null to him calling him town. If you read the last four quotes, that's what made Shaded go from null to town for Marcrell; it makes absolutely no sense.

[awestfie]

I've to go now, I'll be back in around five to six hours. Hopefully there will be new posts from ProHawk/Marcrell regarding all of this.

[ProHawk]

ProHawk

- You claim that you are the macho doctor. So, if you were mafia...
1. How would you have played differently?
2. How would you have treated or interacted with Shaded?
3. Who would you have voted for on day 4?
4. Who would you have nightkilled night 4?
5. What would you have done last night?

1. I would have absolutely let the Doc get murdered at night, face-off with you and Awest with no confirmed town. As far as posts, I try to make my scum game look like my town game so there prob wouldn't have been much difference there.

2. Depends on the day. Up until his hammer, I don't recall much in the way of a smoking gun so I probably would have defended him as much as I could (this site has terrible bussing meta).

3. Day 4 - I probably would have pushed someone else other than Titus/Rando, they had some nasty interactions with regards to Armageddon that he/Titus would have been a gem to keep around for LYLO, not to mention that Titus was voting Awestfie which would have been handy to jump onto that push. Titus was scum-reading two town players and was getting a lot of heat, it would have been pretty easy to buddy up and win some points there.

4. Nightkill would be hard to predict because if I were scum, Titus likely wouldn't have been lynched and would open up a whole new strat as far as night kills go. Probably would have been you in that case.

5. I would have tried to kill the guy who would have incriminated the other guy.