NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Nero Cain]

lets get this show on the road

[Nero Cain]

tunnel on me

This game should start me thinks

[Nero Cain]

he said 60 hours from when he sent out roles but all but three have confirmed and the other three may have site flaked.

[Nero Cain]

Mastin is a humungos douche that just likes to see himself type.

[Nero Cain]

Explain the shotty policy lynch.

he's a 2 year old who lives in a cave and has brain damage.

[Nero Cain]

he's a VI and they make great early game lynches.

[Nero Cain]

ummmm...ever game I've played with him. Its common site knowledge that he's a VI. Why are you seemingly defending a shotty pl?

[Nero Cain]

b/c Vi's are hard to read....

why are you taking this so personally?

[Nero Cain]

ummmm...ever game I've played with him. Its common site knowledge that he's a VI. Why are you seemingly defending a shotty pl?

Why are you trying to deprive the town of information? I mean, Shotty lynches are A-Ok, but I want a lynch based off reads and Merit, so we can actually make connections and determine things besides "we all lynched this guy 'cause he's bad". Gives us zero info.

I think that Ninja's questioning looks town, and that your refusal to answer her questions adequately is a problem.

lol what?

I wasn't even the one to bring up a shotty pl.

What we call the shottys won't matter as we are policy quicklynching shotty day 1.

This works for me.

He asked why a shotty lynch was even being considered, I told him that he was a VI and that he was hard to read ergo I'm not going to miss him if he does end up being lynched (though I doubt he will} so I'm not sure what question thats not being answered.

[Nero Cain]

your tunnel goggles are faulty. I suggest writing the manufacturer and demanding a refund/replacement.

[Nero Cain]

shhhhhhhh!!!!!

[Nero Cain]

I don't think I can explain why someone is a vi. Once again, and you seem to be ignoring this, I was not the one to bring up a Shotty pl nor did I ever say that I wanted to lynch him and only him.

[Nero Cain]

He wants me to explain why people are VIs. Yeah I don't get it.

[Nero Cain]

I'm not scum, someone else is. Case closed we aren't PL'ing me today.
Now Nero why are you attempting to be so separated from the idea displayed in your following post?

I don't think I can explain why someone is a vi. Once again, and you seem to be ignoring this, I was not the one to bring up a Shotty pl nor did I ever say that I wanted to lynch him and only him.

No one directly accused you of these things. Does someone have a guilty conscience?
Also is it so hard to provide a link? It's obvious that the 2 year old was asking for an example not a role summary, there are plenty of games in which I played awfully that you could have linked.

So what I gather form all this is that, either
A) you know something that the rest of us don't, and you are town, why?:
1. I know you don't like me
2. I know you are down to PL me
3. You have tools available to help push a PL on me
4. You used none of those tools
or,
B) You are mafia and know that I am town, but don't want to seem over eager to lynch someone, why?:
1. You made no clear judgement call on the issue
2. You didn't push for the PL, but you kept the talk about it going
3. You made it very clear that this wasn't your idea, almost as if you know I am town, there for don't want the blame for a mislynch put upon yourself.

Personally I think it's B

I'm pretty sure that one of LLD/NN acused me of pushing your lynch. I'll be honest here...alot of this didn't make a lick of sense to me.

Like I said its widely know that you are a VI, NN wanting me to post links to exhibit this when HE could have looked himself is just tedious and unneeded.

b/c Vi's are hard to read....

why are you taking this so personally?

I agree this question is a bit odd.
Nero, what were you trying to gain with this question?

I think this whole thing was pretty dumb. A pl was suggested, NN asked why as if were such a crazy suggestion. I told him why it was even being considered. He asks for case for why someone is a VI. The whole thing is tedious and a distraction.

[Nero Cain]

he could have looked it up.

[Nero Cain]

oh crap!!! Hez pegged me!!!!

(is this still the lulz tunnel or you snerious?)

[Nero Cain]

what the fuck.... 7 pages before game even opens? it wasnt even a full page last time I checked in.

Sigh, this is why i do confirms via PM. Guess its time to read through all this.

Why do you have an issue with more scumhunting?

Nero needs to be vigged.

oh go be useless elsewhere

[Nero Cain]

scum won't nk a terrible player

[Nero Cain]

i'd doubt it. Though a SK or a small scum team thats trying to act like a vg might shoot him.

[Nero Cain]

Nero- what are your current reads?

shotty is a vi. both of them.
pine and mastin are lovers.
thar be scum in NN, KK, LLD, Psyche, jason,mage
redFF is a jew.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE:SHOTGUN

[Nero Cain]

Why not?

[Nero Cain]

Ok then. Mastin called you scum and I called you a vi. Instead of responding you instead join a bandwagon with a vote that attempts to look like an RVS. Why would you do this as town?

[Nero Cain]

avoidance. cool

[Nero Cain]

lynch this cheeky viscumbag.

[Nero Cain]

shotgun read plox?

[Nero Cain]

if you have trouble reading vi's why is he vi-town and nt null-vi?

[Nero Cain]

so the "why would you do this as town-attempt to change the subject" seems like what a townie might do. noted.

[Nero Cain]

Hey firestarter, is the earth round?

[Nero Cain]

shut up Mastin and help me lynch cheeky scumshotgun

[Nero Cain]

though I have to agree that fire is very probable scum. Psyche is his #1 but he joins the rack wagon?

[Nero Cain]

I disagree.

[Nero Cain]

With...?

that his claim makes him newb town

[Nero Cain]

@LLD-is the earth round?

[Nero Cain]

@LLD-is the earth round?

Refrain from asking pointless questions, and adding more fluff to an already swamped game.

Do you have anything real to add? Are you still in favor of the Shotty PL?

answer the damn question!!!

[Nero Cain]

and shut up vijay

[Nero Cain]

@LLD-is the earth round?

Refrain from asking pointless questions, and adding more fluff to an already swamped game.

Do you have anything real to add? Are you still in favor of the Shotty PL?

answer the damn question!!!

You need to be vigged, so fast.

this is exactly my point. Its pretty common knowledge that the earth is round (or elliptical <3 vijay) but you don't want to answer the question or provide a comprehensive case as to the shape of the world. Just like its fairly common knowledge that shotty is a vi. I think the whole "NERO DIDN'T EXPLAIN WHY SHOTTY IS A VI!!!!" is a hella horrible case. And I'm pretty atleast one of you (KK) if not both of you are scum. You might say that my question wasn't game related and yours was (though I think NN actually asked).

[Nero Cain]

and sure. I'm always up for a shotty pl. both of them.

[Nero Cain]

I didn't want to explain something thats common knowledge

you didn't want to explain something thats common knowledge.

[Nero Cain]

you do know that NN knew exactly why a Shotty pl was being talked about so he knew and I'm guessing most of the players IN THIS GAME also knew making your "it isn't common knowledge" a bunch of bullshit.

[Nero Cain]

vote:firestarter

[Nero Cain]

Nero- what are your current reads?

thar be scum in NN, KK, LLD, Psyche, jason,mage

Why has he explained nothing about this? Or pushed it all?
All i seen was "i'm pretty sure one of LLD or KK is scum"

I did'nt like this post either,

Ok then.

Mastin called you scum and I called you a vi. Instead of responding

you instead join a bandwagon with a vote that attempts to look like an RVS. Why would you do this as town?

Why should shotgun respond to either of these? Particulary you calling him a vi?

And here is my biggest issue,

though I have to agree that fire is very probable scum. Psyche is his #1 but he joins the rack wagon?

This is your FS scum read presumably.
First, how is it scummy if somebody joins the more viable wagon of a scumread rather than the preferred scumread?
If I understand correctly you prefer a drmyshotgun lynch but you are voting Firestarter right now yes?
So you are doing exactly what you are calling FS scum for doing.
secondly,

And note (I should have put this in my original post), my initial scum list is in no particular order.
If one was to check the player list on the very first page, my reads are in that order.

Explains the entire issue Nero had with Firestarter.
Nero did'nt respond to or adress this at all.
And yet Nero is voting FS. For no other explained reason.

Vote: Nero Cain

I'll get to more a bit later.

All you or anyone had to do is ask me if they wanted me to explain my reads. GEEZ!!!

In my experience, scum tend to not respond to scum accusations. The point was that there was lots of stuff he could have talked about but all he did was just bandwagon raak with a vote that tries to look like an RVS.

its still extremly early in the dayphase. If FS had a higher scumread on psyche then I see no reason for someone that is

supposedly

scumhunting to bandwagon. Sure when we get close to dl and he says "well this pshyche wagon is broken, I'm going to join the Rack wagon." then cool.

MMMMM...I still thinking. I don't particularry care who gets lynched as long as they are scum.

your chainsaw defenses of shotgun, FS and ignoring of redff's 443 is noted.

@Mastin Rack is prob town hence the fast bw

shotty-grow the fuck up.

[Nero Cain]

oh nvm, you responded.

I bet you have a null read on CCV huh?

[Nero Cain]

oh hai!!!!

/high five

[Nero Cain]

I can only remember both me and you playing in lovers multiball were I was scum. What was the other game?

But no I'm not scum.

[Nero Cain]

fair enough fire.

though what kind of bus was it? A school bus? Or maybe a greyhound bus?

[Nero Cain]

All you or anyone had to do is ask me if they wanted me to explain my reads.

If you think they are scum(or suspect) why would'nt you bring up the reads and explain them unprompted? Any of them.
Ninja had to ask you directly for the reads in the first place because you did'nt give any.
How would you expect to get them lynched? Particulary since you think the leading wagon is town.

And please explain in clear terms why you are voting firestarter.

to be honest I'm just kinda sitting back and watching. When I see something that needs attention I'll do some yelling until then I feel like I'm most useful by putting my vote down on whatever bandwagon [that I agree with!!!] has the most momentum. Though I might get bored and try to lead a lynch on someone I find scummy.

The rack wagon is building way to fast. I mean everybody and their grandmothers are on it!!! That right there sets off all sorts of klaxons.

The first part of Fire's post is IOA. I'm not a real big fan of alot of his reads, especially his town reads. And the whole Psyche vote looks like a bus is pretty stupid. If anything its distancing between him and psyche.

[Nero Cain]

In 447, and ever since you came in the game, you were all whining about how the big bad meany Nero is all willing to lynch you for being a useless twit. Instead of telling me what I should or shouldn't be doing why don't you ya know actually do your job and scumhunt.

[Nero Cain]

everyone with half a brain on this site knows you suck balls as a player. All they have to do is click on your games to see. The ones that are asking me to provide "proof" that you are a vi are prob scum.

[Nero Cain]

good man

[Nero Cain]

and mage and jasons were 3 mins apart OoOo

[Nero Cain]

jun, why are you being so quiet this game?

[Nero Cain]

I disagree with the "shotgun is obvious town b/c he claimed" crowd. I asked him a very simple question, why whould he as town bandwagon rack with a vote disquised as an RVS. He avoided said question and went on to claim a PR. This looks like newb scum trying to shut down early heat on him.but since he's a VI the scumread is weak.

LLD, NN and KK get scum points for their cognitive dissonance here i.e;Nero is scummy for not providing "proof" that Shotty is a vi but Shotgun is town for avoiding a question.

I aso have weak scum reads on Praetyre and Junpei. I continue to see Prae online and he's posted on the site 5 times since confirming here. I've played twice with Jun as town and both times he posted like crazy so his silence here seems unusual. His explanation that he's busy IRL is acceptable but I'd still like to watch this slot.

NN attacking me over a shotty pl seemed pretty lynch happy to me.

I felt LLD was merely shadowing NN. Also of note is her cognitive dissonance on my slot. KK calls me early town, she agrees, and then I'm scummy. She also notes how Rack is an "easy target" and says thats Librarian isn't "incredibly town" [for finding Rack scummy]...but votes Rack later on.

Fire has been talked about.

Jason's 161 seems like scumplaning.

you do know that NN knew exactly why a Shotty pl was being talked about so he knew and I'm guessing most of the players IN THIS GAME also knew making your "it isn't common knowledge" a bunch of bullshit.

can you show me a game where Shotty was actually Policy Lynched, please?

Stating that Shotty is a known VI has nothing to do with him actully getting lynched.

His asking Anti why I'm town but then putting me on his town list just seems off. I'm equally unimpressed by his list of scum reads.

Psyche's rack vote is terrible. He posts alot of fluff and saying that I misrepped his post when I was complaing about Fire is fed up with stupid AND then he uses the same thing he was complaining about to attack fire. lol I can deff see a fire-psyche team. His unvote of Rack when he still thinks rack is scummy is scum getting off a wagon thats lost steam. His reads in 286 read as frence straddling.

acceptable lynches

Psyche
Firestarter
jasonT1981
Lady Lambdadelta

Weak Scum reads

NihilisticNinja
Junpei
Praetyre
drmyshotgun

gut says scum

Maxous
Kublai Khan
Benmage



@Max- top 4 scum reads. GO!!!

[Nero Cain]

We aren't lynching either today so why does it matter and why did you not care about LLD's placement?

[Nero Cain]

the point was that shotgun shouldn't be given an auto town read and let him lurk to victory.

[Nero Cain]

I can't explain gut hence why is gut. As I said, NN attacks over a pl is weak and looks lynch happy.

What did you think of the points against LLD?

[Nero Cain]

8 voters, 2 former-voters, 3 interested players, 13 to lynch.
Rack's been pseudolynched already, even without the above players' opinions. Look at the names involved.

[Benmage, The Mini-Librarian, drmyshotgun, Firestarter, Kublai Khan, Pine, Lady Lambdadelta, Candy Corn Vampire], {NihilisticNinja, Psyche}, (mastin2, Maxous, DV).
[Voting]{Voted}(Interested).

Tell me, LLD, does this look like a town-driven wagon to you?

Wow.

That looks fairly amazingly town.

You think

that

wagon look town?

Mastin, why do you want to join a wagon that you think is scum driven?

[Nero Cain]

AH HELL NO!!! I didn't sign up to play with this prick. Its bad enough with the 2 shottys and one of you derpbags need to go.

unvote;vote:GI

[Nero Cain]

and your scum.

[Nero Cain]

*you're

[Nero Cain]

b/c he's scum or derp town

[Nero Cain]

What did Sotty do to make you drop your weak town read for a scum read, DV?

[Nero Cain]

No, I think the reaction is all the more interesting when scum know their reaction will be scrutinised.

So this is just a MD type statement and not about shotty. ok

[Nero Cain]

DON'T SAY THAT, RED!!! Scum will attack us.

[Nero Cain]

Is GI scum? If so, why?

probably. Prae was lurking terribly and Greys entrance was less than impressive but it

is

GI so *shrugz*

[Nero Cain]

Grey has whatever Prae's role is....

[Nero Cain]

fake day kill is fake

[Nero Cain]

meh. I can't help the way you and your scumbuddies feel.

[Nero Cain]

like you're any better

[Nero Cain]

obviously.

ALL BOW BEFORE THE GREAT DEASVAIL!!!!

[Nero Cain]

Isn't it a lil' late in the DP to be joke voting?

[Nero Cain]

I've never understood why people express desire to vig players they read as town for saying something they find stupid.

don't worry. I find him pretty useless too.

[Nero Cain]

So who are the scum?

[Nero Cain]

tell me o wise one, why was it important to vote for shotty when there was a healthy bandwagon on Rack?

[Nero Cain]

Why are you more concerned with anti's scum read on you than G1's?

[Nero Cain]

V2V, it meta-self-meta-defense; there's a difference.

Also I think redFF is scum for more than that; his diction and purpose on that page seems not town motivated.

Yeah not buying it. Although RedFF isn't exactly the easiest target.. hmmm. Prob scum.

you think red is scum but you attack Jun for thinkin' he's scum?

Nero Cain is an idiot. It's not an act.

Your words sting, Kettle.

However he needs a better explanation as to why he's not on the rack-wagon.

oh thats simple. He's not my biggest scum read. The poor guy had 3 votes within one hour of the game starting!!! Benmage doesn't give me the warmest of fuzzies and something is knawing at me about mini but the third vote is from scummy as fuck Psyche. Add in Fire and Gunny and that wagon stinks worse than a slaughterhouse. And scumMax is on it.

Though I don't think I ever said anything like "NOPE!!! No way that Rack flips scum." But the slot is useless and I wouldn't shed tears if they are they day1 lynch. If they flip scum then cool, I'll be wrong. Its not like I'm the first person to be wrong nor will I be the last.

tell me o wise one, why was it important to vote for shotty when there was a healthy bandwagon on Rack?

You called FS scum for doing the exact opposite.
Why are you even asking this question?

Why do you care if I ask this question?

Its not like scum bunch up and do A but not B or B but not A. No scumtell is 100%.

[Nero Cain]

in 734 when you said "prob scum" who did you mean?

[Nero Cain]

Nero, you really think there's 5 scum on the rack wagon?

You think there's not scum on the Rack wagon? Have you ever played Mafia before?

[Nero Cain]

I didn't realize I was trying to derail it. Especially in 760 after I more or less said that I don't care.

[Nero Cain]

possibly. This is a 24 players game and 8 scum would still be a 16 player town setup and a 16/8 setup seems plausible to me. Current site meta suggests two teams of 4 and you "I doubt we have 8 scum." , "oh but its a possibility.", posts seem sorta like slips to me.

[Nero Cain]

Day needs to ends.

vote:Rack

[Nero Cain]

that. was. terrible.

[Nero Cain]

possibly. This is a 24 players game and 8 scum would still be a 16 player town setup and a 16/8 setup seems plausible to me.

Current site meta suggests two teams of 4

and you "I doubt we have 8 scum." , "oh but its a possibility.", posts seem sorta like slips to me.

No I said there isn't gonna be a single scum team of 8. FIND ME ONE precedent of a 24 game that had a scum team of 8. FIND ME ONE.

please go and sit in the corner until you learn to read or flip scum.

LLD will be VLA for a few days

Why are you declaring v/la for another player?

Agee's with Pine's assessment of Mastin's wall posts.

Psyche is still scum.

Its not like scum bunch up and do A but not B or B but not A. No scumtell is 100%.

right...but if i have understood correctly you said joining the wagon on somebody that is'nt your top suspect is scummy. (in that situation)
And then you were questioning somebody on why he was voting thier top suspect and not joining the wagon of a lesser suspect. (in a similar situation)
I don't get why you would think both of these behaviours are suspicious.

b/c, like I said above, they do both. lol

I <shivers> agree with Gunny. By 34 pages in Scooby should have reads/opinions.

[Nero Cain]

psyche lynch manana

[Nero Cain]

it'll be atleast a day or 2 until PV flips him. In the meantime we can scumhunt moar.

[Nero Cain]

mage already told us there were two teams of 4.

[Nero Cain]

mage already told us there were two teams of 4.

I had forgotten about this. HOWEVER -- please show the class where he said two teams of four. I just found where he said 8 antitown roles. (I'd look closer, but I'm trying to get as much info in as possible before lockdown.

Here we have Nero potentially putting words in Ben's mouth.

Unrelated, please also consider the animosity between benmage and LLD in the signup thread that seems to miraculously dissipated now. Perhaps they're on the same team?

he didn't say it. Him thinkin' there were 8 anti-town roles, me suggesting that site meta suggests that would be two teams of 4 then Ben being all herp-a-derp and saying that I suggested there was 1 team of 8 sounds like pissed scum.

also lol @ defending Ben-speculating on a Ben-LLD team.

[Nero Cain]

Nero-Ste meta suggests there are two teams of 4

Ben-WTF NERO!!! When has a game ever had 1 8 man scum team?

your response to my two 4 person scum teams was terrible and makes no sense. I never suggested a single 8 man scum team. Either you misread or you are scum misrepping.

[Nero Cain]

As much as I hate to agree with possible scum (DV) GI's asking the mod to choose players is terrible.

just kidding faggot

Mod: Please Force Replace This Slot

I have an idea. Why don't

YOU

replace out. This is the third time you've asked a player to replace out. Meanwhile you've been fucking usless and lurked all day 1.

Still I think the LLD, GI, Benmage taking offense to reds post is a dileberate attempt to distract from the game and each slot should get major scum points.

Today I'm interested in, and I think this is the best place to find scum, lynching from the rack wagon. Specifically the unslashedout names. The only other one that I'm interested in lynching is psyche.

rack (13)- Benmage, The Mini-Librarian, Firestarter,

Kublai Khan

, Lady Lambdadelta,

drmyshotgun

, Maxous, GreyICE,

Nero Cain, FakeGod, Junpei, Pine, Antihero

vote:LLD

[Nero Cain]

# of posts=//=town alignment

I agree that you were EXTREMELY active at the beginning of the thread but when the game actually began you seemed to disappear.

[Nero Cain]

Can you explain how I was lurking when I was pushing the main wagon that day? This is a clear contradiction.

LULZ!!!! You sitting on a mislynch all day makes you considerably less likely to be town.

PV started the game in Post #206 (isolation #6) » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:44 am

after he started the game you had 37 posts in 13 days and alot of those posts were short useless ones.

As apposed to the 13 posts in a 60 hour period. Looks like a drop off in activity to me. (and yes I know you had tests)

Whether this is because you're scum or because you want me out of the game I've yet to determine.

Nice to see you fence sitting. Claiming that I'm trying to get you lynched b/c I dislike you is such a lulz/

ATE

/scum reaction.

OH HAI MINI!!!

You're always there to defend LLD, huh? She your scumbuddy? Wouldn't suprise me.

I wrote that at the end of the day phase but when I got home the thread was locked. You are correct that I would have voted LLD regardless of night kills (unless there was a scum) and I really don't understand why it matters who got flipped. How would two town flips change my scum reads?

nice chainsaw.

[Nero Cain]

Can you explain how I was lurking when I was pushing the main wagon that day? This is a clear contradiction.

LULZ!!!! You sitting on a mislynch all day makes you considerably less likely to be town.

PV started the game in Post #206 (isolation #6) » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:44 am

after he started the game you had 37 posts in 13 days and alot of those posts were short useless ones.

As apposed to the 13 posts in a 60 hour period. Looks like a drop off in activity to me. (and yes I know you had tests)

Whether this is because you're scum or because you want me out of the game I've yet to determine.

Nice to see you fence sitting. Claiming that I'm trying to get you lynched b/c I dislike you is such a lulz/

ATE

/scum reaction.

OH HAI MINI!!!

You're always there to defend LLD, huh? She your scumbuddy? Wouldn't suprise me.

I wrote that at the end of the day phase but when I got home the thread was locked. You are correct that I would have voted LLD regardless of night kills (unless there was a scum) and I really don't understand why it matters who got flipped. How would two town flips change my scum reads?

nice chainsaw.

[Nero Cain]

im guessing ah was a vig?

he was a mason

[Nero Cain]

vote Nero Cain

Put everything on hold: He scumslipped.

What is this "scumslip" and why are you not pointing it out to get others to vote me?

Drmy, do you have access to the QT Antihero and vijay had?
If so, can you try paraphrasing their conversation, since with both dead, it'd be kinda hard for either of them to do so for us?

Whats the point?

[Nero Cain]

So...I had a scum read on LLD. When day broke I voted my scum read. I fail to see how that's a scumslip but w/e.

[Nero Cain]

So...I had a scum read on LLD. When day broke I voted my scum read. I fail to see how that's a scumslip but w/e.

Strawman.

Don't know if scum or really really horrible

[Nero Cain]

Scum, Nero. Scum.

I'm not convinced yet. His play and reads are usually crap. The thing that gives me the scummiest vibe is that he's not playing how he usally plays.

[Nero Cain]

Nero: why have you slashed out the names you have slashed out?
SEVERAL OF THOSE PLAYERS COULD BE MAF.

sure the could but not everyone in this game is scum. Its important to be flexible. There are way to many ego's in the game and alot of people have to compromise but being too flexible is a good indication of scum so where's your line in the sand? Do you have one or are you pretty much open to lynching anyone?

[Nero Cain]

Nero: why have you slashed out the names you have slashed out?
SEVERAL OF THOSE PLAYERS COULD BE MAF.

sure the could but not everyone in this game is scum. Its important to be flexible. There are way to many ego's in the game and alot of people have to compromise but being too flexible is a good indication of scum so where's your line in the sand? Do you have one or are you pretty much open to lynching anyone?

[Nero Cain]

My reads were given yesterday. It should be obvious that I push on my scumreads and largely leave others alone, at least this early in the game.

yet according to you (atleast the vibe I get) its unacceptable for me push on my scum reads and ignore those that I'm not ready to lynch yet. Please explain this double standard.

Nero Cain. I don't think that creating a vote post overnight is a scumslip, but goddamn that post is terrible for other reasons. What exactly is your case on LLD again?

So exactly what were you voting me for then?

Alot of LLD's posts are fed up with stupid and its not about her being on the Rack wagon its SITTING on the Rack wagon.

This is like the second time you've come to LLD's defence. Dunno if you are buddying or defending a scumbuddy.

Still waiting on you to explain why my read of LLD should have changed b/c of the night kills.

Nero:

Why did you comment on GI's replace out now? Why did you feel the need to mention me as possible scum?

GI hasn't actually replaced out. Maybe he's planning on lurking until he gets prodded and force replaced but I wouldn't know anything about that. I would have commented on it yesterday but by the time I was back on the thread was locked. Regardless, GI telling the mod to choose between two players is quite immature.

You're not a big big scum read but you aren't a big big town read either. Also yesterday you asked me "What does prae have to do with GI?" when they are the same slot seemed pretty stupid/scummy to me. And since you are asking about GI again, I have to ask you why are you so concerned about him?

[Nero Cain]

OH HAI MINI!!!

You're always there to defend LLD, huh? She your scumbuddy? Wouldn't suprise me.

I wrote that at the end of the day phase but when I got home the thread was locked. You are correct that I would have voted LLD regardless of night kills (unless there was a scum) and I really don't understand why it matters who got flipped. How would two town flips change my scum reads?

nice chainsaw.

Okay... people won't lynch the scumslip, how about the reaction to the scumslip being pointed out?

He aggressively attacks Mini-Librarian for one. Then he says he

1) Wrote the post at the end of Day 1

2)Would have voted LLD regardless of night kills

Issue being of course that he first references the posts' logic in regards to pre-night and then post-night. Why was Nero voting LLD at the end of day 1? This reaction looks fake and looks to try to scare off his attacker.

...........................................

I have no fucking clue what you are on about. I don't understand why you or Hez or Mini feel like I should have dropped my LLD scum read overnight.

[Nero Cain]

Sounds like it to me.

I had a scum read on LLD day 1. I vote her day 2.

"BUT THE NIGHTKILLS!!! YOU DIDN'T TAKE THE NIGHT KILLS INTO ACCOUNT!!!"

The fuck would that change?

[Nero Cain]

Scooby:

I'm pretty sure that part was lost in the crash. It was NY 142, but I don't think it'll help.

Nero:

I'm pretty sure he's being replaced (from the replacement thread anyway).

Why would it matter that I was possible scum if agreeing with me on an unrelated-to-the-game issue?

Prae had everything to do with GI. Prae's lack of posting and then replacing out shouldn't have had an impact your read on the slot whatsoever.

What makes you think I'm concerned about him? My question demonstrates concern about you.

I guess it doesn't matter all that much. I don't know why its so important for me to admit this but w/e.

Prae's lack of posting/lurking (both me and AH saw him online multiple times reading this thread but not posting after confirming) earned a weak scum read. I was less than impressed with GI's entrance and I would not be surprised if that slot was scum. I mentioned Prae's lurking. You then asked "What does Prae lurking have to do with anything?" They have the same slot so Prae alignment=GI alignment. Its very simple and I have no clue why you ask something like that.

[Nero Cain]

That was Rack. If anything Scooby should get lynched for having no other reads than Rack after 34 pages.

[Nero Cain]

This line:

Still I think the LLD, GI, Benmage taking offense to reds post is a dileberate attempt to distract from the game and each slot should get major scum points.

is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Your scumhunting has been pretty random all game, but this takes the cake. This is craplogic that makes drmyshotgun look brilliant in comparison.

Plus your wagon hunt list makes absolutely no sense. Why is FakeGod crossed out? You called his rack vote terrible. Why is my name randomly crossed out? How the hell are Maxous and The Mini-Librarian higher scum-targets than Pine and Junpei? You need to explain the fuck out of that.

Plus your attitude towards the rack wagon was scummy as balls. You fought against it like crazy, calling it scum-driven. Then when people started complaining about how long Day 1 was, you jumped on it saying that "the day needed to end" then turned around and called FakeGod terrible for doing the same thing? WTF?

reds comments to AH wasn't an attack. GI, LLD and Ben are fucking immature to get pissed about said statement. If I had bullets I'd shoot each one for being whiny little bitches.

Fakegod is crossed out b/c he's not my first lynch choice. A few people, myself included, didn't have Jason in high praise. When he replaced in he hadn't fully caught up yet wich is fine but he promised to and then voted rack. I was kinda hoping he'd catch up before the day ended but meh.

Your name is crossed out...did you really not read? GAH!!! You're like the third person to ask me this shit.

Today I'm interested in, and I think this is the best place to find scum, lynching from the rack wagon. Specifically the unslashedout names. The only other one that I'm interested in lynching is psyche.

I don't have a scum read on Pine and Jun is fairly weak.

Considering the first three votes are Benmage, The Mini-Librarian, Psyche. Yeah I'm pretty cofident scum are in those 3 and I wouldn't be suprised to find even more. Though it was pretty obvious that Rack was going to be the day 1 lynch and nothing new was really going on. We needed a flip.

[Nero Cain]

Few thoughts:

I still don't believe in drmy's claim. There's nothing I see in his posts day 1 or 2 that confirms him as town in any way.

I actually don't think Nero's 1014 was a scumslip. I could see myself writing up a case on my d1 scum read, and if nothing changed during the night in regards to my scum read, then I would post it up.

I have not made my mind up on pine case yet. I will do so soon.

awesome. Have you caught up yet? Day 1 thoughts?

So exactly what were you voting me for then?

Alot of LLD's posts are fed up with stupid and its not about her being on the Rack wagon its SITTING on the Rack wagon.

This is like the second time you've come to LLD's defence. Dunno if you are buddying or defending a scumbuddy.

Still waiting on you to explain why my read of LLD should have changed b/c of the night kills.

I'm voting for you because every single ounce of reasoning you've ever given for a LLD lynch has just been illogical and wrong.

I mentioned the timing of the posts because I would never write a post like overnight. I know it's a logical fallacy to apply that to you, but I was trying to put pressure on you and determine what the hell you were thinking when you posted that.

Also, what KK said.

I see you can still not explain

why

it was so wrong of me to vote for a scumread when the flips didn't change anything.

So basically I'm being voted b/c you don't like that I find LLD scummy and think she's town. How does that make me scummy? Do you honestly believe that I'm the first townie to ever put a case on someone and be wrong? How do you

know

that I'm wrong? Did I miss something, is she mod confirmed town? Unless she is I don't see how its "wrong" to suspect her. Explain to me how and why she is above suspicion?

[Nero Cain]

Its up to the mod. The wiki even uses miller specifically as an example.

The term "power role" is somewhat ambiguous - generally anything that is not truly Vanilla is considered a "power role", including roles like Miller. It is ultimately up to the moderator's discretion which abilities are inheritable, though it should be planned in advance.

Gunny is not the days lynch. We should be lynching mini scum or psyche scum.

[Nero Cain]

before you go I have a question about your LLD read. You wrote "Aggressive townish. Does like to take a stance, warming too." Was that supposed to be doesn't? If so how does someone that doesn't take firm stances read town?

[Nero Cain]

IIOA. Its either you believe he's clear or not. Showing suspicion without taking a stance is scummy as hell. At this moment do you feel we should be lynching him or not?

[Nero Cain]

Its either you think he's scum or not. You handwaving "OH LOOK HOW SUSPICIOUS HE IS!!!" but not directly stating you find him scummy won't cut it.

[Nero Cain]

I'd like to see a full case on Mastin, LLD.

Mastin, I'd like to see a full KK case.

[Nero Cain]

The Junpei votes are not good. I

will

post my new reads.

[Nero Cain]

no

[Nero Cain]

you asked the same thing....

[Nero Cain]

fair point, jun.

[Nero Cain]

Oh what the hell.

Why LLD is scum

Spoiler:

Calls Mini slightly scummy for finding Rack scummy but she finds Rack scummy and later joined the Rack wagon herself. Cognitive dissonance and possible buddy distancing given that she didn't call anyoneone else scummy only Mini.

Librarian has some good posts about Rack. Then again, Rack is a incredibly easy target and anyone can make the blanket statement about Rack's questions. They're terrible. Follow this with Rack not substatiating his claim about me, and he's looking really bad. This isn't to say that I think Librarian is scummy for liking Rack as scum,

I just don't think he's incredibly town for it.

And I don't think any conjectures can be made about Scooby's confirm post. It's literally completely null until Scooby posts some content. So, yeah Librarian is town but not as town as everyone seems to think. Probably a slight town lean, just for sincerity in posts.

Believes that Rack town told but ignores it since he did something scummy. Town tell + Scum tell=null tell not town tell + scum tell=scum tell

RedFF- I don't know what the problem with forcing a hydra to claim their heads is.

I actually found it to be a town tell.

The only reason I'm not doing it, is because at this moment I consider my vote on them and if they refuse to answer my question again, I'll be lynching them day 1. And then it won't matter who their heads are.

Says its anti-town to explain town reads despite explaining some town reads.

Flips on Fire when Fire didn't post between her posts. Fence sitting, made up read.

I just don't see what is setting of so many alarms in rack's posting.


LLD, I noticed you haven't said a thing about firestarted all game, what do you think of that wagon?

I do agree that the KK wagon isn't great.

There's a Firestarter wagon? I know a few people were displeased with his opening post, but I didn't see a lot wrong with it.

It was a little weak but not scummy IMO.

8 voters, 2 former-voters, 3 interested players, 13 to lynch.
Rack's been pseudolynched already, even without the above players' opinions. Look at the names involved.

[Benmage, The Mini-Librarian, drmyshotgun, Firestarter, Kublai Khan, Pine, Lady Lambdadelta, Candy Corn Vampire], {NihilisticNinja, Psyche}, (mastin2, Maxous, DV).
[Voting]{Voted}(Interested).

Tell me, LLD, does this look like a town-driven wagon to you?

Um, with the exception of Pine and maybe CCV and

Firestarter

, I believe most players on this wagon to be town.

Ninja is town. Psyche is null-town for me right now.

So I mean, it looks pretty town to me.

Heavily buddies AH in 502. and guess who wound up dead?

I don't know about this Nero wagon. Like I said, I can't tell if his terrible posting is scum or just a genuine dislike for me and based off policy.

I'll go look back through his ISO and interactions with people.

I agree he's just voting me to vote me, but there's a potential it might not be scum.

This is

NOT

a townie response. "Meh, I'm being voted b/c they dislike me. OH WOE IS ME!!!" Is scum

ATEing

and waving the vote off.

Also I found this fairly interesting.

Quite honestly, I make a dozen or more such connections on day 1.

I don't post any of them because in my mind none of them have any relevance until some people die and we have some absolutes to work with.

What makes you so cofident that you'll live to tell? I understand its past day 1 now but you could have died. You could die tonight, the next night etc. I don't see why pesudo-town is willing to with hold information/speculation.

EBWOP: As such, I find it a LITTLE bit suspicious that people try and do that, because there is scum motivation to state these kinds of reads. (See: Chaining Lynches)

but there's also town motivation to do so but you refuse to do so in fear of comming across scummy. Duly Noted.

Overall I think her posting is terrible and (if she's not scum) she needs to go directly to the newbie queue, not pass go and not collect $200. Her "but I had 37 posts on day 1!!!! I'm so not lurking." when only a few of those posts were decent content (IMO). As much as I think she's scum, TML's zeal that I should not suspect LLD makes me feel (a little) like she's town b/c I doubt a scum buddy would defend her that hard. Still its hard to ignore her craptastic fire flip and NN shadowing.

[Nero Cain]

And yeah that Deas Psyche read is terrible.

Mastin, DV is a sorgster alt?

[Nero Cain]

yeah I saw that but she also said he's not incredibly town for it. It doesn't even make sense!!! And why is he the only one that's not incredibly town for finding Rack scum? How can she believe someone is "not townie" and then sit on said wagon.

I don't really care if you or anyone likes my case.

What do you think of her flip on Fire?

[Nero Cain]

And yeah that Deas Psyche read is terrible.

Please clarify whose Deas/Psyche reads are terrible, and then explain why.

He called Psyche town for being on a mislynch. I don't care if he thinks the slot is town but it shouldn't be for

that

.

[Nero Cain]

Mastin, what do you think of my LLD case? Does it change anything or is she still a town read for you?

[Nero Cain]

I don't really care if you or anyone likes my case.

Then why'd you post it?

Why did you avoid my question?

[Nero Cain]

For the record. Khan, Pine, and Junpei are all VERY strong scumreads.

I realize there are only six scum, but unfortunately, I have a few more suspects than I'd like for who the last three are.

Huh?
How you know this.

answer this, Mastun.

[Nero Cain]

shotgun is town, btw. If not obvious, yet. Healthy doses of doubt are nice and all, but let's be serious.

So what do you think of those that are trying to call him scum?

[Nero Cain]

How you know this.

Experience, combined with math. I did the numbers; I have over 70 on-site non-marathon games (I'm old. ), and over 20 of them are Large Normals.

Math--6/24 = 25%, ideal scum balance, whereas 5/24 = 21% (rounded)--theoretically possible, yes, but that's where the "experience" part comes in; it would be extremely rare to see it on such a low side of the spectrum. 5+SK, maybe, but again, if there are two anti-town kills, they reek of being in the style of two scumteams rather than single scumteam and single player.

For all my faults as a player, I do know my numbers.

25% is ideal with 1 scum faction mostly; you are arguing for two scumteams. Try again.

How do you know its two scumteams and not scum + sk?

[Nero Cain]

While the setup speculation is interesting, we had two kills. There's absolutly no way there was a vig kill so its either two 3-4 teams or 5-7 with an SK.

Jun what is your read on TML?

[Nero Cain]

Er... Psyche's vote on rack only really made sense as a bus, not as scum voting town.

Why didn't people have a problem with my original reasoning presented in 298.

probably b/c I didn't "see" [as in read it but didn't compute at the time) it. I still don't really get the logic here. Is it like a "too scummy to be scum" type thing?

[Nero Cain]

I'm going to have to disagree. All he did was bandwagon. H didn't even tell us he felt Rack was scummy till later.

[Nero Cain]

We could argue about how "serious" the wagon was at 3 votes but I can see where you're coming from.

[Nero Cain]

First,

Mod: Can we get a votecount?

{Also, re-reading all of Day 2 while I'm at it, it's only a little extra...}

Pine - Why is Pine only voting for people based on perceived absolutes? Could he be a stronger scum-read?

This line:

Still I think the LLD, GI, Benmage taking offense to reds post is a dileberate attempt to distract from the game and each slot should get major scum points.

is one of the stupidest things I've ever read. Your scumhunting has been pretty random all game, but this takes the cake. This is craplogic that makes drmyshotgun look brilliant in comparison.

Plus your wagon hunt list makes absolutely no sense. Why is FakeGod crossed out? You called his rack vote terrible. Why is my name randomly crossed out? How the hell are Maxous and The Mini-Librarian higher scum-targets than Pine and Junpei? You need to explain the fuck out of that.

Plus your attitude towards the rack wagon was scummy as balls. You fought against it like crazy, calling it scum-driven. Then when people started complaining about how long Day 1 was, you jumped on it saying that "the day needed to end" then turned around and called FakeGod terrible for doing the same thing? WTF?

reds comments to AH wasn't an attack. GI, LLD and Ben are fucking immature to get pissed about said statement. If I had bullets I'd shoot each one for being whiny little bitches.

Fakegod is crossed out b/c he's not my first lynch choice. A few people, myself included, didn't have Jason in high praise. When he replaced in he hadn't fully caught up yet wich is fine but he promised to and then voted rack. I was kinda hoping he'd catch up before the day ended but meh.

Your name is crossed out...did you really not read? GAH!!! You're like the third person to ask me this shit.

Nero Cain.. Slow down and ACTUALLY READ what you are replying to. Because you are making no sense and I just think you are scummier for deliberately misinterpreting my posts.

1) I have no idea what "reds comments to AH wasn't an attack" means. It refers to nothing in my post. What the fuck is that about?
2) You called Lady Lambdadelta, GreyICE, and benmage scummy for their offense to redFF. Now you're calling it immature. Is that a backtrack or do you somehow think that scum are innately immature?
3) So the fact that FakeGod didn't catch up by the end of Day 1 makes him less likely to be scum?
4) I asked why my name was crossed out (and therefore not a lynch target) because if the basis of your case is that Lady Lambdadelta SAT on the rack lynchwagon, why would I not also be scum with her? I sat just as long on the rack wagon because rack never posted anything that might convince me to move off of it. So why is there a double standard?

Also, as of Post 1098.. WTF? You're not even pushing a Lady Lambdadelta lynch anymore? What changed?

Oh, you posted another, different case on Lady Lambdadelta in Post 1135. It reads like a scum-case of "I'm going to analyze everything in her posts and pick up on minute inconsistencies to show her as being scum and therefore justify my vote". A town-case is usually one or two major things with maybe some other minor things.

@Everyone else - How the fuck is Nero Cain not being wagonned?

1.) "reds comments to AH wasn't an attack" refers to him calling AH a fag. I really see no reason for those three to get all upset like that. It reads to me like an

ATE

. Do you really think that Ben, GI and LLD are all town?
2.) If you wanna call it a backtrack fine.
3.) I didn't say that. I was just unsure of it and I wanted to see more posts from him before I made a decesion.
4.) but my basis isn't that she sat on the wagon, true its a big part of my case but its not like its my whole entire case. But like I said in my first post, I think lynching from the Rack wagon is a good idea. You were a day1 gut scum read, I can't really explain it therefore I'm not pushing it and I'd lynch others before you anyways.

In the future I'd appretiate if you'd read fully first. I already explained that TML zeal that I was wrong and should not suspect LLD gave me chainsaw vibes like he was defending a townie for town cred.

As for why I'm not being wagoned. Its simple. Scum know I'm town and are saving me for a mislynch later down the line.

[Nero Cain]

and you

STILL

cannot explain why it was so wrong of me to vote for LLD after the night phase.

Nero LLD is still scummy as fuck. Lets kill it with fire.

TML: Nope you shouldn't have voted LLD b/c of the night flips.

Nero: What?!? Explain how the town flips changed anything.

TML:...........................................

So I'll ask you point blank this time.

WHAT DID THE FLIPS CHANGE AND WHY SHOULD THEY AFFECT MY LLD VOTE?

I believe I also asked you why you felt LLD was town but you ignored that too.

I'll admit that my vote is pretty useless. There's no movement on LLD and a few people have called you scum but I don't think my vote would do anything. I'm not all that interested in flipping Pine the only bw I'd be interested in in is Jun.

LLD-can you explain your flip on Fire? In 387 you said his post was not scummy but in 450 he was potential scum.

Also still waiting on that Mastin case

[Nero Cain]

No I don't.

B/C THEY DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING!!!

Not that you'll believe it but If LLD had died or there was a scum kill I would have changed it.

[Nero Cain]

Oh that. I believe that writing that post during the night time is suspicious because you weren't even thinking that flips

could

even influence your decision. You had convinced yourself ages ago that you were going to vote LLD. Just because nothing flipped that did could have changed your opinion doesn't mean that it could have.

I have a town read on LLD because I have a cop inno on her. Seriously though, it's more like I don't have a scum read on her and there have been no cases presented to me that have presuaded me otherwise.

So really the only reason I think she's town is because she got attacked by you for ridiculous reasons.

At this point I'm just laughing. "Well the flips could have affected the LLD slot therefore your read should have changed."

So you think LLD is town b/c you have a scum read on an unflipped player. And you say I have bad logic.

Also still waiting on that Mastin case

"

Maaaaaaaastin! Please distract them from meeeeeee!

"

You already saw mastin2's case on me.

lol.

LLD voted Mastin at the begining of the DP. I wanted to see her case on him. That was me asking her for her case on mastin not asking mastin for a case on you. misrep much?

[Nero Cain]

So really the only reason I think she's town is because she got attacked by you for ridiculous reasons.

I actually think that if Nero flips scum, LLD becomes much more suspect. I mean, it looks like Nero knew that LLD would be alive to me.

Stating that someone is town or scum via unflipped player attack is ridiculous.

[Nero Cain]

So really the only reason I think she's town is because she got attacked by you for ridiculous reasons.

I actually think that if Nero flips scum, LLD becomes much more suspect. I mean, it looks like Nero knew that LLD would be alive to me.

Stating that someone is town or scum via unflipped player attack is ridiculous.

ISO me, I don't have active suspicion of LLD, only you. The reason for this and my quoted statement is exactly as you say: associative tells on unflipped players are ridiculous.

If you think that then what do you think of TML who said he thinks LLD is town b/c an unflipped Nero attacked her?

[Nero Cain]

I'm not voting Junpei for trolling mastin.

itt psyche is scum and knows Jun is town.

TML is also scum.

All aboard the TML wagon, next stop scum lynch.

vote:TML

[Nero Cain]

Not a fan of any of the lead wagons.

I guess I'd vote pine.... need to read.

does not compute

[Nero Cain]

put those 6 in strongest to weakest. If we lynch Jun today and you're wrong will you help me lynch TML tomorrow?

[Nero Cain]

Why is Pine scum with Shotty and not the GI/Prae slot? Remember that GI came in the game and called Shotty scum.

[Nero Cain]

I'm pretty confident in TML scum, perhaps we should lynch him today?

[Nero Cain]

just like Rack and Vijay were not town.

[Nero Cain]

I'm not worried about him yet. I want psyche or TML blood today.

[Nero Cain]

@code-it would be faster to just click their name and then click on "view their topics"

[Nero Cain]

DV explain how "the last few pages are pretty much all town squabbling with town"

but in the next sentence you question Mastins alignment?

[Nero Cain]

So you no longer think Pine is scum?

[Nero Cain]

And damn, nero, can't you say anything more about me beyond the periodic "psyche is on my lynchlist" crap?

If you want I can. I think you're fluff posting, IIOA loving, active lurking, non scumhunting scum.

Not a fan of any of the lead wagons.

I guess I'd vote pine.... need to read.

does not compute

I meant if I had to pick one.................

but you think all the leading wagons are town. If you think this and are town shouldn't you know try to start a wagon on scum?

[Nero Cain]

Ben playing the ego card. LULZ!!!

[Nero Cain]

Librarian? The guy who called a total of one person scummy on day 1?

[Nero Cain]

@KK for the last time I'm not asking Mastin for a read or case on you. I asked once and that was it. I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Stating that someone is town or scum via unflipped player attack is ridiculous.

Says the guy who has

no problem at all

with mastin2's input.
When did I ever say that?

Everyone:

Does Mastin do this kind of thing as scum?

Well, the game I've played with mastin2 where he was scum is outdated (thought it was multi-scum), but he was really, really obv-scum. He reads as town in this game.

Once there's an actual scum-flip, mastin2 can help uncover the rest of the scum-team really well, but until then he's just spinning his wheels in the mud. Being massively wrong and full of himself isn't a scum-tell for him.

Actully, in Mafia on werewolf islad he did something similar when he was outted. And he should know that it's very anti-town to flood the thread like this.

[Nero Cain]

Oh, you replaced NN.

Fuck, you're town.

Try and be a little better then, ok Code_X?

Like, you're pretty much at the top of my town list for NN's stuff. Use that and do something productive. (Hint: Vote TML).

fixed

[Nero Cain]

#140: I'm starting to see a redFF-Nero Cain connection here. Both want drmyshottyizsik policy lynched and neither are doing anything to convince anybody that he's actually scum, with Nero Cain trying to shift burden onto NihilisticNinja and redFF trying to stifle discussion.

What the hell? A PL has nothing to do with being scum. You should know that, LLD should know that. This kind of discussion makes me think ya'll are defending for the towncred.

I also have to agree with Jun here. SC not providing links makes it hard to tell what he's actually replying to. Sure we know the post number but having to go through the read and find the posts are alot of work.

[Nero Cain]

I think antihero was a vig kill, he was my no1 scumread and I see no evidence that it was a scumkill. I could see it being an SK kill. Yes it would be better if you read my day 1 case on firestarter and helped me lynch scum.

no. Just no. Unless you believe that this is a extremely rare one team game with no SK, if not then there was no vig kill. And if it was a vig kill and the 2nd scum shot was blocked/doc'd then the vig is a moron. You get scumpoints here for trying to push that.

[Nero Cain]

#140: I'm starting to see a redFF-Nero Cain connection here. Both want drmyshottyizsik policy lynched and neither are doing anything to convince anybody that he's actually scum, with Nero Cain trying to shift burden onto NihilisticNinja and redFF trying to stifle discussion.

What the hell? A PL has nothing to do with being scum. You should know that, LLD should know that. This kind of discussion makes me think ya'll are defending for the towncred.

You are not reading. "I think your reasoning for wanting to lynch drmyshottyizsik is crap" ≠ "I think drmyshottyizsik is town." The only thing I have done that could remotely be considered as me passing any sort of judgment on drmyshottyizsik yet is agree with Benmage's statement that his first sentence in the first post of his ISO is fluff. You two could be bussing him for all I know.

No.

YOU

are not reading. This response makes no sense. You said that if me an red want a PL on shotty we should start explaining why he's scummy. You know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess. Then you cry "I NEVER SAID THAT I FELT SHOTTY WAS TOWN!!!" I said absolutely nothing about you finding shotty town. The hell did you get that? On second thought perhaps you got it from the town cred part. Regardless, a PL has nothing to do with him being scummy and it looks like you are defending him.

[Nero Cain]

No.

YOU

are not reading. This response makes no sense. You said that if me an red want a PL on shotty we should start explaining why he's scummy. You know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess. Then you cry "I NEVER SAID THAT I FELT SHOTTY WAS TOWN!!!" I said absolutely nothing about you finding shotty town. The hell did you get that? On second thought perhaps you got it from the town cred part. Regardless, a PL has nothing to do with him being scummy and it looks like you are defending him.

That I "know darn well that a PL has absolutely nothing to do with scumminess" is exactly why I find

YOU

scummy. Policy lynches rarely work. Even if it nets us a scum lynch, there still must be sound reasoning behind the policy lynch for us to get much information; that drmyshottyizsik is far from the sharpest knife in the drawer does not qualify. redFF has since relented and moved on; you, on the other hand, are still running your hate machine and expect us to fuel it. For me to defend drmyshottyizsik, I have to dispute that he is scummy. I am not doing so; in fact, I have come to my own conclusions as to why he is scummy (ironically, how he is responding to you; since I'm looking at the page your post is on, I can tell everybody that he's not responding admirably to mastin2, either). Try looking deeper than a player attacking a case on another player before assuming that it's a chainsaw defense.

point is, you should know better. A pl is a policly lynch. You sitting there and saying that me and red should provide proof of him being scummy for a PL is absurd. Nor did I ever say anything about you thinkin' shotty was town. Nor am I still trying to for for a pl on shotty as you claim. Why are you putting words into my mouth?

"Even if it nets us a scum lynch, there still must be sound reasoning behind the policy lynch for us to get much information"

A scum lynch is a scum lynch. It moves the town closer to a town wincon. Why would we have to have information before we lynch scum?

Your bus theory is pretty retarded. You believe that me and red decided to pl shotty in the queue thread, before any of us had roles, and then all three of us were given scum pms....the odds of that happening are astronomical.

I have to ask you about your shotty scumread. As far as I can tell 488 is the only time you express that he's scummy. The case (shotty is scummy for weak replys to Nero and Mastin and (I think) they are crossbussin') is a pretty weak case or is there more to it? Would my town flip make you change your read on shotty? Why did he not make your list of scum reads/lynchs in 1453?

As far as I know I never called shotty scummy or put a case on him. Why then are you saying that you are attacking the shotty case? (hint:if there's not one you can't attack it) If anything you are attacking me. Not any case. Please quote were I called shotty scum and put a case on him.

[Nero Cain]

I like how you avoided every single question and request, scumSC.

[Nero Cain]

Your wiki is gonna take me longer to read than this game. Plus I didn't see a section about replacement. Can you link/name a town and scum game you replaced in.

SSC, whats your opinion on rack?

Dead. Your name can be added to the "not gonna cry if this person gets lynched" list for not reading.

There a reason you keep avoiding everything that anyone asks/requests of you?

LOL! Keep digging.

how would Jun voting/attacking you give him towncred?

My grandmother may pass tonight so I might need to go on V/LA here soon but I'll try to keep the mod updated if I have to leave

[Nero Cain]

Until LLD is dead or mod confirmed town I don't see whats so town about her. Maybe someone can explain.

I see no reason for me to explain my case to you when you are avoiding questions in the first place. And even now I'm asking a very simple "why you keep avoiding" question and you still get all pissed and angry? WHY? Its a simple question. If you are town there shouldn't be anything to be upset over.

Though I'll make you a deal. You answer my questions and I'll "defend" my case.

[Nero Cain]

Nor did I ever say anything about you thinkin' shotty was town. Nor am I still trying to for for a pl on shotty as you claim.

Why are you putting words into my mouth?

I have to ask you about your shotty scumread. As far as I can tell 488 is the only time you express that he's scummy. The case (shotty is scummy for weak replys to Nero and Mastin and (I think) they are crossbussin') is a pretty weak case

or is there more to it? Would my town flip make you change your read on shotty? Why did he not make your list of scum reads/lynchs in 1453?

As far as I know I never called shotty scummy or put a case on him.

Why then are you saying that you are attacking the shotty case?

(hint:if there's not one you can't attack it) If anything you are attacking me. Not any case.

Please quote were I called shotty scum and put a case on him.

I do have some additional questions but as per our agreement after you answer these and I "defend" my case (is there any particular area you have a question on?), I wll ask.

[Nero Cain]

For the record I don't really get SC's request to "defend" my case.

Spoiler:

Calls Mini slightly scummy for finding Rack scummy but she finds Rack scummy and later joined the Rack wagon herself. Cognitive dissonance and possible buddy distancing given that she didn't call anyoneone else scummy only Mini.

Librarian has some good posts about Rack. Then again, Rack is a incredibly easy target and anyone can make the blanket statement about Rack's questions. They're terrible. Follow this with Rack not substatiating his claim about me, and he's looking really bad. This isn't to say that I think Librarian is scummy for liking Rack as scum,

I just don't think he's incredibly town for it.

And I don't think any conjectures can be made about Scooby's confirm post. It's literally completely null until Scooby posts some content.

So, yeah Librarian is town but not as town as everyone seems to think. Probably a slight town lean, just for sincerity in posts.

I really don't get any town vibes from calling some one "not incredibly townie" and "not as town as everyone thinks" AND THEN joining that same wagon.

Also since we have two kills and [most likely] two mafia factions this might be a slip. If she was scum and knew there were two factions she could use that to justify voting for a scum suspect while calling someone else slightly scummy (that's how I interpret it).

Believes that Rack town told but ignores it since he did something scummy. Town tell + Scum tell=null tell not town tell + scum tell=scum tell

RedFF- I don't know what the problem with forcing a hydra to claim their heads is.

I actually found it to be a town tell.

The only reason I'm not doing it, is because at this moment I consider my vote on them and if they refuse to answer my question again, I'll be lynching them day 1. And then it won't matter who their heads are.

Says she thinks its a towntell that Rack didn't want to reveal thier heads but thinks its a scum tell that he dodged questions. I don't see how one outwieghs the other.

Says its anti-town to explain town reads despite explaining some town reads.

Ninja strikes me as a pure hearted townie of goodness.

KK seems logical town, but I have a real... twinge about KK that I need to check up on. Nothing too serious, I just gotta go read a Metropolis game again. God help my soul. If everything checks out, then KK should be a pretty good town here.

Librarian has some good posts about Rack. Then again, Rack is a incredibly easy target and anyone can make the blanket statement about Rack's questions. They're terrible. Follow this with Rack not substatiating his claim about me, and he's looking really bad. This isn't to say that I think Librarian is scummy for liking Rack as scum, I just don't think he's incredibly town for it. And I don't think any conjectures can be made about Scooby's confirm post. It's literally completely null until Scooby posts some content. So, yeah Librarian is town but not as town as everyone seems to think. Probably a slight town lean, just for sincerity in posts.

JasonT is town. I've got a dead read on him from the last few games I've played with him. That's as town as Jason gets.

I like how Deas Veil is playing. It's a little cautious, but in this case his caution appears to be town oriented rather than scum.

might be more but these look like her explaning town reads to me.

Flips on Fire when Fire didn't post between her posts. Fence sitting, made up read.

I just don't see what is setting of so many alarms in rack's posting.


LLD, I noticed you haven't said a thing about firestarted all game, what do you think of that wagon?

I do agree that the KK wagon isn't great.

There's a Firestarter wagon? I know a few people were displeased with his opening post, but I didn't see a lot wrong with it.

It was a little weak but not scummy IMO.

8 voters, 2 former-voters, 3 interested players, 13 to lynch.
Rack's been pseudolynched already, even without the above players' opinions. Look at the names involved.

[Benmage, The Mini-Librarian, drmyshotgun, Firestarter, Kublai Khan, Pine, Lady Lambdadelta, Candy Corn Vampire], {NihilisticNinja, Psyche}, (mastin2, Maxous, DV).
[Voting]{Voted}(Interested).

Tell me, LLD, does this look like a town-driven wagon to you?

Um, with the exception of Pine and maybe CCV and

Firestarter

, I believe most players on this wagon to be town.

Ninja is town. Psyche is null-town for me right now.

So I mean, it looks pretty town to me.

She's now explained that she went back and reread and found that his [first] post was scummy afterall. Maybe she's being truthful. Maybe she's scum backtracking, idk.

Heavily buddies AH in 502. and guess who wound up dead?

You yourself said this was "inherently scummy". I do agree that doesn't mean she killed him but its extremely suspiocios to me.

I don't know about this Nero wagon. Like I said, I can't tell if his terrible posting is scum or just a genuine dislike for me and based off policy.

I'll go look back through his ISO and interactions with people.

I agree he's just voting me to vote me, but there's a potential it might not be scum.

This is

NOT

a townie response. "Meh, I'm being voted b/c they dislike me. OH WOE IS ME!!!" Is scum

ATEing

and waving the vote off.

[/quote]
Both yours and LLD's "ZOMG, NERO IZ VOTING PEOPLE B/C HE DOESN'T LIKE THEM!!!" just seems so

ATE

and vote discrediting to me. I mean sure, I could see some issue were people likely think I'm scum (I "scumslip" all the time as town; see mafia om the gulf coast) but I'm not

THAT

bad. While I don't expect you or anyone to believe me (and I'm pretty sure no one will) but I'd

NEVER EVER...EVER

vote someone just b/c I dislike them. That would be against a town wincon/breaking a rule.

As it stands, there are about 3 or 4 people on this site that I think are a P.O.S., none are in this game. Though I will admit that I dislike GI but my vote had nothing to do with it. (I already disliked the slot and his opening that Rack and shotty are both scummy didn't seem to town to me.)

[quote="Nero"
Also I found this fairly interesting.

Quite honestly, I make a dozen or more such connections on day 1.

I don't post any of them because in my mind none of them have any relevance until some people die and we have some absolutes to work with.

What makes you so cofident that you'll live to tell? I understand its past day 1 now but you could have died. You could die tonight, the next night etc. I don't see why pesudo-town is willing to with hold information/speculation.

EBWOP: As such, I find it a LITTLE bit suspicious that people try and do that, because there is scum motivation to state these kinds of reads. (See: Chaining Lynches)

but there's also town motivation to do so but you refuse to do so in fear of comming across scummy. Duly Noted.[/quote]
I can see where people might disagree with this one and while I've head this "town should limit the number of conspiracy theories etc. until there's "proof"." But I don't really see the harm. Sure someone might call you an idiot but I don't see how sitting around and masturbating until there's "proof" is UBER AWESOME PROTOWN!!! Post what you believe, what you feel, what you think. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong but either way scum will react and it furthers the game along.

Specifically, LLD (and anyone really} doesn't know when she'll die (with a few exceptions, obviously) so IMHO its anti-town to withold thoughts on the game.

[Nero Cain]

those tags came out wrong.

[Nero Cain]

I still think he's significantly scummier than her, though.

Well you should!!! Considering you once said you had a strong LLD town read on her. Has that changed?

[Nero Cain]

and stop posting elsewhere on the site and post here, kdowns.

[Nero Cain]

yep. dude replaced Macros. I'm actully starting to think Mastin was on to something with his Jun/Mac/KK scumteam theory.

[Nero Cain]

personal feelings aside, I think its null. Maybe you and red can explain what makes it townie.

[Nero Cain]

null, though he gets some scumpoints for his crappy vig kill theory. Though I wasn't accusing you of being scum. I was simply stating what his theory was. This is still not the town Jun I'm used to and Kdowns is lurking horribly so perhaps Mastin was on the right track afterall.

[Nero Cain]

So you think scum don't replace out?

[Nero Cain]

And I've heard this theory before...I actually agree with it to an extent...scum replace out too though and there are 16 original players left in the game. Are we all scum since we didn't replace out? That's why this is null to me. I'm not willing to give an auto town read based on a replace out. I rather base it on SC's actions/words. So you think the other 3 slots are town BWO replacement too?

[Nero Cain]

nope, same thing. They obviously didn't care enough about this game to stay in it. That's no less apathetic than GI was.

[Nero Cain]

Is drmyshottyizsik usually this useless?

yes

null, though he gets some scumpoints for his crappy vig kill theory. Though I wasn't accusing you of being scum. I was simply stating what his theory was. This is still not the town Jun I'm used to and Kdowns is lurking horribly so perhaps Mastin was on the right track afterall.

Alright, I was just making sure you're being consistent. If you're buying into the 2 3-scum teams theory that mastin2 pushed, then redFF should be anywhere on your townlist.

Also, calling kdowns a lurker is a little premature as there is a lot of reading to get caught up. However he should check in soon and let us know how he's progressing.

3 man scum teams seem all the rage these days so its believable. Am I correct in assuming that you meant "then redFF should

NOT?

be anywhere on your townlist."

I can see your point about Kdowns but on the flipside none of codeX, AH, GI, SC or fakegod spent time posting around the rest of the site before getting active here. That said fakegod has still yet to catch up and needs to do so and post meaningful content here asap.

[Nero Cain]

He's usually useless and unreadable like this.

[Nero Cain]

no, we were talking about Shotty though Ben is being pretty useless this game.

[Nero Cain]

I still think he's significantly scummier than her, though.

Well you should!!! Considering you once said you had a strong LLD town read on her. Has that changed?

Other than you succeeding in killing my obvtown read on her, no. She's still high up there.

Despite TML's innocent, she's not really "confirmed" in any sense.

Wait what? What does TML have to do with anything? Are you saying that LLD got an innocent read last night on TML? How do you know this, when I don't remember her announcing it in the thread.

[Nero Cain]

oh that. I didn't think he was being serious.

And if he is why is he claiming cop on day2 with one innocent and no pressure on him? But he's unCC'd so meh....

unvote;vote:Jun

[Nero Cain]

oh that. I didn't think he was being serious.

because I wasn't being serious guys. cut me

some

slack here.

SC and LLD get to wear the dunce hat for believing that claim. Give it to them, Ben.

[Nero Cain]

oh oh oh. Mini wagon go go go.

unvote;vote:TML

[Nero Cain]

TML wagon is bad.

and so is the Pine wagon.

My reasons for thinkin' TML is scum have nothing to with the cop "claim" or OMGUS.

[Nero Cain]

oh oh oh. Mini wagon go go go.

unvote;vote:TML

this looks like opportunistic scum.

you do know I was voting him before, right?

[Nero Cain]

Firstly there's a huge lack of scumhunting on his part.

Rack is his main scum read so I'll be ignoring all his posts calling Rack scum.

overselling your reads, esp on someone who hasn't posted content? I have a great distaste for people who go after them first.

And if there's actual good content going around, tell us your other reads.

OK. First off I'm not gonna tiptoe around my scum reads. I'm gonna say they're scum and that they deserve death. Secondly, I see no town motivation for what scooby did, while I see scum motivation. Thirdly, I want Rack dead today anyway.

As for other reads:

townish-
NN
CCV
Pine
KK

lightly calls Scooby scummy and delivers some townish reads.

Let's see. Mastin's reads are bad, but I'm leaning town here. But that's mainly just gut. Didn't LLD say she could read Mastin? What's you opinion?

Firestarter looks townish so far. He's being incredibly forthcoming with his reads and reasoning.

The game I just finished with Vijay is seriously clouding my judgement about his read... :/ Let's just say he isn't the strongest player in the world. Null for now.

--

I'm lot liking psyche currently. The sequence where he votes Max goes like this.

- "max's posts are meh. I mean, extraordinarily meh. I like the idea of lynching this guy."
- "VOTE: Maxous to draw sufficient amount to the guy."
- "My max vote makes perfect sense. Look at his damned posts. They are nothing pretending to be something. And he's been ignored despite this. Why not pick him out?"

What bothers me the most here is how passionless these posts are. This is not posting of someone who actually wants their read lynched.

leaning town, townish and null for Mastin, Firestarter and Vijay.

I like his attack on psyche but then....

I think I might just have a fundamental disagreement of how to play mafia than Psyche. :/

He's null for now.

Calls both shottys town in 414.

OK, I'm back now.

Macros bothers me. His comments on the rack wagon and why he was thinking about voting rack really don't strike me as protown. Basically he just calls rack out for lurking and not contributing when given a chance.

These really aren't scum traits at all.

Maxous also bothers me for his sudden jump on the rack wagon, especially given his previous comments on that wagon.

expresses displeasure with Mac and Max but never really calls them scum.

the bolded also bothers me. He's voting a player that he belives is scum but believes something he's doing isn't scummy, LOL WUT?

I like rack's vote, but FFS the utter lack of content makes me desire his blood.


Read Pine's iso. Hmmmmm.... I'm starting to see what the issue is here. I need to look at my notes and see why I called him town to begin with. That might need to change.

Stradles Pine.

You want to lynch Rack for lacking content but you just got done saying that lack of content is not something scum do.

Well, a shotty wagon isn't something I'm averse to... Don't think I'll hop on this wagon though.

Now straddles Shotty (whom he called town)

So by my count he only really calls Rack scum (other than me) and I guess he gets some cred for calling Scoob scum during pre-game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His day 2 is equaly terrible.

I still think his vote on me is a big chainsaw on LLD. Honestly I don't get his vote. He votes me for voting LLD b/c he thinks I'm scum and I knew that the kills (atleast my supposed faction) weren't going to interfere with LLD but then he states that I didn't scum slip. lol wut?

And he

still

hasn't explained why the nk's made my LLD vote invalid.

His "LLD is town since unflipped Nero is attacking her" is just pathetic.

Other than that his flipping between Pine and shotty looks like scum trying to find something that sticks.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also I find it absolutly hilarious that no one wanted to lynch shotty yesterday for being useless, derpy and scummy but today there's a whole ton of people that want to lynch him.

[Nero Cain]

needs explanation.

[Nero Cain]

Yeah with the surge on the Pine wagon he's not someone I'd want to lynch.

KK is right though, there's pretty much no chance in getting a TML lynch so

unvote;vote:jun

fakegod, you replaced in on april 18th, 18 days ago and you

STILL

haven't caught up. If you don't catch up by day 3 then we should strongly consider lynching you. That said I expect a full list of scum reads ASAP.

LLD, what is your read on fakegod?

Sigh

@Mod: Requesting Deadline Extension

We need a replacement not a Pine lynch. We also need to hear from a number of other replacements before the end of the day. Kdowns and Firestarter be good.

I disagree. If scum are lurking/being intentionally inactive they aren't going to stop unless they are threatened by being a lynch canidate. So I wouldn't mind offing lurkers to try and keep scum active and not lurking.

[Nero Cain]

I see Nero's case on me. Will respond to it tomorrow game day (god willing) as it will just clog up the thread today.

So you want to have a whole night phase before you respond to my case when A) I could die during the night and (most likely) the heat on your slot would die as well and B) assuming that you are scum then you'll get help from your buddies in crafting a defense.

[Nero Cain]

????????????????

[Nero Cain]

@Mini-you didn't really call anyone BUT rack scum yesterday.

The closest thing is saying that Mac and Max bothers you. That scooby hasn't "improved his stature in my eyes"

And day 2 you didn't even call anyone scum, you just voted them.

flail a bit. Hunting a few specific people looks like scum trying to play it safe.

[Nero Cain]

How does Mastin know there is two scum teams? Or is there something I haven't read yet?

Why do you not care about the votes on you?

SSC, whats your opinion on rack?

Dead. Your name can be added to the "not gonna cry if this person gets lynched" list for not reading.

There a reason you keep avoiding everything that anyone asks/requests of you?

Are you saying he should give an opinion on a flipped town?
The hell is that avoiding?

no

Just b/c those posts are in succession doesn't mean they are related. I had asked some questions of SC and Ben had asked SC for some links. Instead of answering my questions or providing Ben with the links. He attacks Ben.

This makes no sense as he already gave an opinion on Rack so your point is lost on me.

[Nero Cain]

So I wouldn't mind offing lurkers to try and keep scum active and not lurking.

Pine is a good candidate for this. So is FG.

But not kdowns?

*waves to LLD*

I SEE U!!!

[Nero Cain]

can you be arsed to gimmie your read on FG?

[Nero Cain]

Hey Mastin. Did anyone ask you for your reads? No? Then why are you giving them. Other than an attempt to try and look town I can't for the life of me understand the purpose behind your post (O LETS GIVE MORE INFORMATION TO THE MAFIAZ)

its pretty common for town to give reads, idk why you are upset over Mastin giving reads.

Also somebody tell me who actually made a case on Rack yesterday and who was just bandwagoning.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

pretty much all the early votes. Benmage, The Mini-Librarian, Firestarter, Lady Lambdadelta, Maxous, GreyICE, FakeGod are the ones I remember being crap votes.

[Nero Cain]

he was pretty obviously town.

[Nero Cain]

OhGodMyLife, Nero Cain is deluded.

Most

of the votes on the Rack wagon were deserved.

Do your own research.

Which ones were?


LLD, your FakeGod read please.

[Nero Cain]

I'm still waiting on LLD to give her FakeGod read. I've asked like 4 times.

With the deadline extension I'm putting my vote back on TML.

vote:TML

[Nero Cain]

its FG, not Pine.

vote:Jun

[Nero Cain]

FG is scum, that's all we need to know.

[Nero Cain]

grandma passed so I'll be be travling to Nashville and doing the wake + funeral. I''l be back tuesday.

[Nero Cain]

He prob is but so is FG, Psyche, TML and maybe LLD.

[Nero Cain]

PV needs to stop extending the deadline.

I still want LLD's FG read.

ATTENTION SCUM: FOR FREE TOWN CRED PLEASE SHOOT SHOTTY AND OR SCOOBY. KTHX.

This game blows. Too many useless lurkers. LLD, TML, Kdowns, Mastin and shotty all haven't posted here and are up for prods.

[Nero Cain]

awesome, so where's the flip?

[Nero Cain]

Jun, you have 152 posts.

[Nero Cain]

The Nero Cain vote isn't bad, but I still think kdowns is the best lynch because of macros being scummy.

I kind of think Nero is town, but he's not one of my stronger reads.

You think I'm town but you like SC's vote on me. lololololololol

I'm pretty confident that FG is scum. I see a LLD/FG connection here. LLD found both Jun and Pine scummy for thinkin' that Gunny wasn't confirmed town but not FG who also didn't thought Gunny was not confirmed town. I then asked LLD her FG read like 4 friggin' times but never got an answer.

I still think TML is scum but I doubt with FG/LLD...unless he's bussin' for town cred. My other top reads are DV and psyche. I'm starting to get some bad vibes about Mastin but meh.

vote:FG

[Nero Cain]

And Nero is blowing chunks out his ass with the FG stuff. I wasn't answering you because I was pushing the Junpei wagon and it seemed like a distraction.

Answer me this, if FG was scum why would he do the same thing I called out Junpei and Pine for doing, after I called them out? It makes no sense for scum to do.

Consider that you called me scum for not answering a question, it seems pretty hypocritical for you to do the same.

Why would you as town call both Pine and Jun scum but not FG for doing the same thing? C WUT I DID THERE?

[Nero Cain]

The Nero Cain vote isn't bad, but I still think kdowns is the best lynch because of macros being scummy.

I kind of think Nero is town, but he's not one of my stronger reads.

You think I'm town but you like SC's vote on me. lololololololol

I'm pretty confident that FG is scum. I see a LLD/FG connection here. LLD found both Jun and Pine scummy for thinkin' that Gunny wasn't confirmed town but not FG who also didn't thought Gunny was not confirmed town. I then asked LLD her FG read like 4 friggin' times but never got an answer.

I still think TML is scum but I doubt with FG/LLD...unless he's bussin' for town cred. My other top reads are DV and psyche. I'm starting to get some bad vibes about Mastin but meh.

vote:FG

You think LLD is scum?

...'the fuck?

or terrible town. I have a hard time telling the difference.

[Nero Cain]

as always Jun is absolutely terrible.