The Walking Dead Season 1 Finale (GAME OVER)

[Young and Witless]

Heyy this playerlist is awesome!
VOTE: beeboy
-smart

[Young and Witless]

SirCakez is probtown.

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

[Young and Witless]

Townlist:
SirCakez
Catdog

[Young and Witless]

Hmm beeboy feels like town.

I can't read Fire for the life of me but I don't like 80, particularly this line:

Feels like you just selected some random completed games from me.

Cakez is leaning town too.

Townleans on BBT and PV, scumlean on hebichan as well.

And lol, ninja'd by my other head.

(I'm still gonna sign even though he's posting in blue.)
-smart

[Young and Witless]

The one on you? It's mostly from 143.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

The one on you? It's mostly from 143.
-smart

Why does that give you a town read?

It doesn't strike me as something you'd say as scum.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Why not?

Idk it just doesn't.

young & witless might be scum white knighting SirCakez

Do you think the Cakez wagon will develop into a real wagon?

SirCakez is probtown.

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

Talk to me about both of these things.

Why is SC town? Why vote for TD?

Cakez is leaning town too.

Same thing - why?

The way he tried to engage MOHIS reminds me of his town play. (And it pinged my gut all over the place )

@Kuroi: what didn't you like about 48? And why don't you have anything to say about PeregrineV?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

The way he tried to engage MOHIS reminds me of his town play. (And it pinged my gut all over the place )
-smart

Umm, what? SC didn't try to engage MOHIS at all. He stated a town read that he couldn't justify and it was Vedith forcing the interaction.

Fair point. I still think the way he went about it was towny.

Sheeping denotes a lack of independent thought. "I'll sheep this" means "I have an excuse to have a vote out there without having to explain myself!"

It's scummy at worst. At best, it's anti-town. Either way, sheeping is not something we should tolerate.

I don't agree with this.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

SirCakez is town for trying hard to bring progress to the game.

[Young and Witless]

Why vote for TD?

That's a stupid question.

[Young and Witless]

Where are the other 16 players damn

I can give some examples, like this. I am impatient like this when it comes to scum hunting.

You can also ISO SirCakez for full resolution. It's not fake, it's someone wanting activity.

[Young and Witless]

Meanwhile TiphaineDeath is trying to find excuses to not do anything.

[Young and Witless]

The way he tried to engage MOHIS reminds me of his town play. (And it pinged my gut all over the place )
-smart

Umm, what? SC didn't try to engage MOHIS at all. He stated a town read that he couldn't justify and it was Vedith forcing the interaction.

Fair point. I still think the way he went about it was towny.

Sheeping denotes a lack of independent thought. "I'll sheep this" means "I have an excuse to have a vote out there without having to explain myself!"

It's scummy at worst. At best, it's anti-town. Either way, sheeping is not something we should tolerate.

I don't agree with this.
-smart

VOTE: Young and Witless

The defence of SC is pinging me hard.

Why?

I can't read Fire for the life of me but I don't like 80, particularly this line:

I'd like to discuss this with Smart when he's on. Why does Fires read alter what I say?

-Vedith

It doesn't. My point was that your slot is going to be hard to read because I'm terrible at reading Fire; however, I did get a read from one of your posts.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

So the thing is.
My record at reading Cakez is abysmal. I've found that if I want to scumread him he's probably town, and if I want to townread him he's probably scum.
The problem being that even when I tried to apply this rule I still arrived at the wrong result.
So, like, I see why people don't like my reasoning. But maybe people (BBT, Xkfyu and TD in particular) can talk to me about their reads on Cakez instead of just calling mine fake.

Personally I’d support a lynch on Other Head simply to stanch the flow of spammy shitposting from the Fire head.

Also anyone who wants to give Beeboy Town cred for shitposting can fight me also …

Is this a meta thing or just a general aversion to people townreading shitposters?

VOTE: Iprobably - the response to a single vote from Maxous at 36 is “Why Me” which needs rope. And then disappears into the backgroup. Note too busy to actually provide content but not too busy to say “I’m too busy”.

Does "Why Me" come more often from newbscum than newbtown?

I like Xkfyu for town for his interactions with PV and MOHIS.
However, I don't like his challenging Cakez's PV read as much.

IPS's Maxous vote is pretty disgusting.

Hebichan's interactions with Kuroi are similarly so.

VOTE: hebichan doubtcasting a lot and reads don't seem real (beeboy one in particular I disliked).
I would also vote IPS.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

YAW, that's... that's not what you said. You were hard defending him saying that him asking where the other players in the game were was him trying hard to advance the game or some similar bs. Now it seems like you're saying you were making up a reason to defend him because you want to scum read him so he must be town? I just.. what? No that doesn't make sense. At all.

No, I think Creature said that. I thought (and still think) that the awkward way he interacted with Vedith was consistent with his town game. That's not something I would use to townread most other people.

unvote, vote: Young and Witless

> The SC read isn't about your reasoning. Both your heads hard-defended SC and overly struggled to justify the read.

That sounds like it is about our reasoning.

> What's the point of your questions to MOI?

To figure out what exactly he means so I can sort him and see if I can agree with his arguments.

> Why is Hebichan's interactions with Kuroi disgusting? That's vague and unconvincing

Hebichan feels backtrack-y, voting Kuroi then mollie imemdiately and seemingly trying to play down her Kuroi read. Her explanation in 320 technically makes sense, but it feels super contrived. Then she tries to wave away Kuroi's arguments in 333, and she says in 342 that her scumread on Kuroi never got any better despite admitting that he hadn't done anything scummy since her vote on him.
Plus the beeboy read is crap.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Yes, scumcakez, keep trying to discredit my read on you instead of actually doing something. It's going to bite you in the ass eventually.

Your "readslist" was weak and I'm pretty sure fake, as it was already pointed out that it only took you 5 minutes to Iso people and come up with it after you only had one town read and one scum read.

What's your read on us, since I don't remember being included in your list?

If I cared about discrediting scumreads on me then I'd be attacking MOHIS a lot more
I'm just really pissed off that players like you keep scumreading me as town because they're arrogant, then I get mislynched, then they're like "oh damn sorry cakez" then they do the same damn thing next game and it's getting quite annoying
I've also gotten annoyed at SS for the same thing

My read on you currently is null because you've done little besides attack me at this point and since you always scumread me it's NAI

Lol, rude. I've never actually mislynched you while I was alive. (I've tried to, though...)

Yeah, town is allowed to be wrong on scum, doesn't mean people have to agree with their townreads.

To YAW, I don't really care if you feel I'm waving away scumroi's "Arguments"

They're bad, I shouldn't have to justify my reasoning against them.

I mean SS, you were one of the scum during the game where I replaced in and played with Kuroi, doesn't his claim to have "Respect" for me as a player seem super suspect, seeing as that was also the only game I played with you if I remember right. So just try justifying the obvious "lol she's too good for this argument" thing with that in mind.

You shouldn't have to justify your reasoning... so why are you?
And I can see where Kuroi is coming from with that; your reads and reasoning were pretty good and straightforward. But if that's the only game Kuroi's played with you then I doubt he's qualified to make that assessment.

Hebichan feels backtrack-y, voting Kuroi then mollie imemdiately and seemingly trying to play down her Kuroi read. Her explanation in 320 technically makes sense, but it feels super contrived. Then she tries to wave away Kuroi's arguments in 333, and she says in 342 that her scumread on Kuroi never got any better despite admitting that he hadn't done anything scummy since her vote on him.

she had a scum-read on Kuroi.
She got a bigger scum-read on Mollie and switched her vote while still thinking Kuroi is scummy.
what's the issue??

i don't see how #320 is contrived, spell it out for me please.

320 reminds me of a thing I did as scum in a Fire & Ice game where I tried to justify a reachy point early in the game and had to walk people through my convoluted logic. Hebichan's point here is definitely reachy, especially given that mollie's softclaim wasn't really scummy (seems like something scum might jump on though), and I'd see town conceding that what she did was confusing rather than continuing to defend it and attack Kuroi for not understanding it.

So the thing is.
My record at reading Cakez is abysmal. I've found that if I want to scumread him he's probably town, and if I want to townread him he's probably scum.
The problem being that even when I tried to apply this rule I still arrived at the wrong result.
So, like, I see why people don't like my reasoning. But maybe people (BBT, Xkfyu and TD in particular) can talk to me about their reads on Cakez instead of just calling mine fake.

For the record, I am more concerned about your reasoning for town reading BBT, than your defense of Cakez, though that certainly didn't help.

I have actually had similar problems as you have in reading Cakez in the past. Eerily similar, in fact. That's why I don't really bother wasting my time trying to read him early on, and he usually stays in my "null/willing to lynch" pile, until I finally have to read him, or until I see something that completely convinces me of his alignment.

So, actually, having said that, yeah, I am more concerned about your town read on Cakez here, as I don't think anyone having such a similar outlook on Cakez as I do should be town reading him right now.

So you're saying that people who have trouble reading Cakez shouldn't even attempt to read him early on, and it's scummy even to try?
And talk to me about BBT if you don't like that read. What's your read on him?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Maverick is probably town.

Because both heads town-read SC and both heads flailed when trying to explain their town read.

Why is this scummy?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

You're asking why is flailing scummy?

Do you think I have any trouble coming up with reasons for reads as scum?

Maverick is probably town.

Because both heads town-read SC and both heads flailed when trying to explain their town read.

Why is this scummy?
-smart

why does this sound like creature and not ss

-smart

[Young and Witless]

I like Xkfyu for town for his interactions with PV and MOHIS.

Hebichan's interactions with Kuroi are similarly so.

What interactions and why did you like them?

For both Xk and Hebi.

For Xkfyu, I liked in 255 how he didn't back down from what he was saying despite his terminology being challenged, and I think the way he was trying to get reads out of people without caring how it makes him look reminds me of his towngame.
I already explained my reasoning on hebichan.

Like, show me one scenario in which that slot is caught as scum, and one of them says "Man, if only we had signed our posts backwards, we wouldn't be in this predicament."

no1 has actually said that but I can show you games where 1 hydra head pretended to be the other 1 and they turned out to be scum

Do you think you know me and Creature well enough to be able to tell that it's him posting and not me?
(ftr, the only time I've ever even seen that idea brought up before was by Ranger, who was scum.)

-smart

[Young and Witless]

I think I know YOU well enough to tell when you are playing in a straightforward manner wrt your wc, your play rn makes me think you have a different 1 from my own. am I wrong?

What about my play in Walking Dead 5 was straightforward? I had no idea what was going on literally the whole game.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

For Xkfyu, I liked in 255 how he didn't back down from what he was saying despite his terminology being challenged, and I think the way he was trying to get reads out of people without caring how it makes him look reminds me of his towngame.

I remember us talking about this exact thing in Math's Mafia.

However, did we not also have a conversation about how you should never use meta when trying to read me?

Maybe. I still will, at least for a starting point. (It's different now, too, because now I have meta from a game I was in.)

I think I know YOU well enough to tell when you are playing in a straightforward manner wrt your wc, your play rn makes me think you have a different 1 from my own. am I wrong?

What about my play in Walking Dead 5 was straightforward? I had no idea what was going on literally the whole game.
-smart

you walked through the progression of your thought processes unprompted, while here the general motivation seems to obfuscate things? and I am not understanding why. I feel like the smart I met in the last twd game is hiding behind creature's playstyle and I want to understand why.

I'm not sure, but I think that's because the progression of my thought processes in that game was "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON".
I'm not trying to obfuscate anything; I'm just not sharing all my thoughts. (I'm also quite busy right now and haven't been able to devote as much effort to this game as I should.)
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I am not having difficulty to explain my read.

Pushing activity is a towntell and that's what SirCakez was trying to do.

[Young and Witless]

Also, I am not pretending to be SS.

[Young and Witless]

I don't think.

[Young and Witless]

hebi crusade is better.

[Young and Witless]

Yeah sure, I'll just take that fall for Cakez and YAW.

What does this mean?

Scum flailing.

[Young and Witless]

I'm leaning town on mollie (though I've never seen her scumgame, so I'm a bit paranoid).

Wisdom feels slightly off to me too after I tried searching out the YAW case, but I don't think the weird feeling I got from his posts are worth pursuing unless they keep continuing as such.

What posts gave you a weird feeling?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Ok, leaning town on farside for continuing that interaction with Ankamius exactly how I was intending to

I got the impression from 589 that he was testing the winds to see if he could swing a Wisdom wagon. I don't know Wisdom's meta so I don't know offhand what his low effort means, but I don't really see Ankamius's accusation of him trying to shape the game.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I like and agree with 696.

As or YAW, I just see a guy trying to figure the game out.

You aren't the first person to mention this, but I don't agree.

I get the feeling that they are more concerned with defending themselves from the lynch than they are with solving the game.

Then you aren't reading my posts. What do you think about Ankamius?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Then you aren't reading my posts. What do you think about Ankamius?

Undecided.

I'll figure out it once he's answered my questions.

He answered one of them. (Not sure if there were more.) What do you think now?

Mollie, in your opinion, are you any good at faking frustration?

I am not good at faking it, no. my emotions are usually genuine and are not alignment dependent but I have been told I am a lot nicer as scum. so I have been trying to work on being nicer as town. but for some strange reason I keep getting scumread.

Hahahaha
I thought you were nice in Walking Dead 5 and I didn't scumread you for it...

so basic

I take it you are an alt?

your readslist is crap, so I am trying to figure out why

I don't think it's that terrible? How many of those reads do you disagree with?
(I'd say they're pretty good, given that catching up is hard, and I imagine catching up in a large is even harder.)
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I don't think it's that terrible? How many of those reads do you disagree with?
(I'd say they're pretty good, given that catching up is hard, and I imagine catching up in a large is even harder.)
-smart

well

he has bbt and I as scum.

I read the ketchup post and there is not really a clear line of logical progression from point a to point b.

I am trying to reason if they are reaction fishing with it, or if they are scum trying to blend in.

like where did the "I wonder where did dgb go" was mentioned but dropped for a scumread on bbt and I and I don't understand.

I think the reads and thinking make enough sense... "where did DGB go" being the justification for a null read is reasonable, and there are stated reasons why they are scumreading you and BBT. (I don't agree with them, but I see them.)

320 reminds me of a thing I did as scum in a Fire & Ice game where I tried to justify a reachy point early in the game and had to walk people through my convoluted logic.

Why are you applying your meta to somebody else?

Similarly, aren't you doing that exact same thing with your read on SC?

1. I don't know, it seems like a tell that would apply to other people besides me.
2. No? My read on Cakez was based on his meta.

lets lynch YAW?

Uh...yes please.

Why are you still scumreading me? Are you still just sheeping BBT?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

@something smart

: is there a specific reason you keep asking questions that you don't care what the answer is or if it's answered at all?

i don't see you doing in this previous town games. I actually checked

I'm not doing that?

What questions have I not cared about the answers to?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I don't get it. Doesn't the whole "tunneling is bad" argument only hold water under the assumption that the tunneled player is town?

Do you guys really think YAW is town?

No?

Yes?

For Xkfyu, I liked in 255 how he didn't back down from what he was saying despite his terminology being challenged, and I think the way he was trying to get reads out of people

without caring how it makes him look

reminds me of his towngame.

Can you expand on the bold for me?

Sure. He was not trying to appear a certain way; with PV, he was just like "welp I was wrong" and then he gets into an argument with FB and he doesn't try to appease FB (and I've learned from experience that escalating an argument with FB can lead to pain).

What questions have I not cared about the answers to?
-smart

Spoiler:

young & witless might be scum white knighting SirCakez

Do you think the Cakez wagon will develop into a real wagon?

@Kuroi: what didn't you like about 48? And why don't you have anything to say about PeregrineV?
-smart

Also anyone who wants to give Beeboy Town cred for shitposting can fight me also …

Is this a meta thing or just a general aversion to people townreading shitposters?

VOTE: Iprobably - the response to a single vote from Maxous at 36 is “Why Me” which needs rope. And then disappears into the backgroup. Note too busy to actually provide content but not too busy to say “I’m too busy”.

Does "Why Me" come more often from newbscum than newbtown?

You're asking why is flailing scummy?

Do you think I have any trouble coming up with reasons for reads as scum?

Then you aren't reading my posts. What do you think about Ankamius?

Undecided.

I'll figure out it once he's answered my questions.

He answered one of them. (Not sure if there were more.) What do you think now?

All of these questions (except the last one, which I'm still expecting an answer to) have been answered. What makes you think I didn't care about the answers just because I didn't address the answers?

Maxous has been going back and forth on me and YAW for most of the game. Some of the time he says my wagon looks nicer and some times he feels like YAW is the best.
It genuinely feels like he's keeping his options open for towncred.

For those (yes, mainly DGB) who think the following thought process is from Town let's read carefully.

Hebi is asserting that Maxous is keeping his options open between YAR and Hebi for

TOWNCRED

.

I've capitalized and bolded the important word.

How, from a Town perspective, does Hebi expect that Max is keeping the option open between the two of them to get Towncred? By jumping to a hypoTown Hebi lynch? He's not going to get Towncred for that. From staying on a YAR lynch if Hebi's goes through? He's not going to get Town cred for that even if YAR is scum ... Max has been too passive and not pushing YAR hard.

The only way Max should be keeping his options open for Towncred is if Hebi is scum and Max can eventually shift from YAR to Hebi to help a successful scum lynch (bus or honest move either way this is the only scenario that makes sense).

Town Hebi should not have come up with that scenario and say Max is looking for Towncred. Scum Hebi on the other hand ...

I mean, I don't think this is a scumslip; I could see hebichan potentially using that line of reasoning as either alignment. But the whole post was nasty (and I really haven't been impressed with hebichan's recent posting at all), so I'm thinking she'll probably flip scum, and I think that makes MoI probably town.

VOTE: Hebichan

Actually no

Hebichan's post on this page is town

UNVOTE:

These two posts are so disingenuous it's nauseating.

I hate this. You saw DGB's townplay in Guns N' Roses and Princess Bride, and she did stuff like this a lot. I don't think it was disingenuous at all. (I don't think it was right, but I don't think it makes her any more likely to be hebichan's partner.)
-smart

[Young and Witless]

how did you even...

-smart

[Young and Witless]

Mollie stop calling him perv lmao

UNVOTE: meh

I'll still be able (and probably willing) to vote again by deadline, but 857 was actually not terrible and I'm okay giving her some space. (I do want to know if it's full or x-shot though.)

I don't see YAW giving out a lot of reads? As for the questioning - what does it actually accomplish? Those questions are shallow questions that don't actually achieve anything.

If you were actually interested in my reads, you'd ask me about them instead of complaining that I'm not sharing them. Are you?

..because usually questions have a purpose which helps develop reads.
reads which you were are very slow and vague to give.
like, your ankamius read has just disappeared apparently

but i'm just a broken record at this stage i guess

Same thing. My playstyle recently, driven mostly by a decrease in the amount of time I can devote to this site (and a corresponding decrease in interest), has been to only share those reads that are relevant. My Ankamius read hasn't disappeared, I just haven't been talking about it.

you know what, just to clarify since people are questioning this (!)

I happened to have a scum-read on the two people that became the leading wagons.
I scum-read them both individually before this situation came about

i'm not gonna LIE and drop a scum-read on somebody, particularly on **day 1** because of competing wagons.
that's goes into confirmation bias territory and is not how I roll.

Were people actually questioning that? I would expect the questions to be more along the lines of, why has your read on one of us not changed given that we are the two leading wagons. Has anything changed your read on either of us since those wagons formed?
-smart

DAMN. IT.

I was doing so well too

[Young and Witless]

Lol at least you know it's not creature imitating me
-smart

[Young and Witless]

she claimed a pr and I don't want her lynched yet.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

No, I don't think she's telling the truth.
However, I'm still trying to weigh the likelihood that she is telling the truth and the likelihood of having an investigative that could confirm her claim versus the benefit of having her be conftown. (And I want to see what Creature thinks too, not sure what he's been doing.)
-smart

[Young and Witless]

A cop inno would make her essentially confirmed town, yes. (I don't think Radja likes godfathers.)
She also might be a good vig target.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Oh shoot I just remembered he had a bus driver in one of the Walking Dead games.
Eh. I don't know if he'd do that in a Large.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

mollie your new sig is brilliant
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Sorry guys, I've been busy (college! woo!); hopefully I can take a closer look at this later but no promises.
VOTE: BBT we're pretty happy with this for now though.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

VOTE: BBT we're pretty happy with this for now though.

why?

1) the whole tunnel is bad and weak and he used it as an excuse to not engage everyone else
2) this doesn't feel like his town game; as town he doesn't say much but he actually tries to figure stuff out instead of just tunneling
3) his stance on the hebi wagon is awful; it's basically "yeah, hebi is scum but I won't vote her; instead I'll vote and push her cw"
-smart

[Young and Witless]

What about his claim?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

How do you feel about it? You think he's lying?

Not necessarily... I do think he's scum though.

YAR I agree Wisdom here - do you think BBT makes a weak claim (1 Shot Gunsmith) that isn't going to give him a free ride the rest of the game (and may be open to counter-claim) if he is scum in light of scum losing a Member yesterday and Town losing no-one?

I think BBT does whatever he thinks he needs to avoid being lynched. (Plus, it would be easy for him to change his claim to 2- or 3-shot later and say he claimed 1-shot to avoid being killed.)
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I think BBT does whatever he thinks he needs to avoid being lynched. (Plus, it would be easy for him to change his claim to 2- or 3-shot later and say he claimed 1-shot to avoid being killed.)
-smart

He's not under pressure though, there was no need for him to do that

Idk, I think he expected to get flak for that hebi lynch. (For good reason.)
Whether it was smart doesn't really matter. I'm not changing my read because of the claim.

I think BBT does whatever he thinks he needs to avoid being lynched. (Plus, it would be easy for him to change his claim to 2- or 3-shot later and say he claimed 1-shot to avoid being killed.)
-smart

You must be not reading then because the trend today has not been very BBT lynch oriented.

What are your thoughts on Catdog?

I've barely noticed the slot... what do people dislike so much about the hebi vote?

This...

^awful selfmeta

and this...

^awful selfmeta

Please get vig shot in the face

I mean, it was pretty awful. Self-meta generally is.

ping me. I don't like it when people wave away self-meta as automatically unreliable.

I wish I knew how to read Cakez

Everytime I defend him he ends up being scum and when I finally decide he has to be scum and even vig him, he flips town

Lol, this is my life.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I don't like it when people wave away self-meta as automatically unreliable.

Any meta that someone is aware of about themselves is inherently, and automatically, unreliable and cannot be trusted.

If they are aware of it, they can adhere to it or avoid it, as needed.

Whatever, this is wrong but it's also not that important. You're assuming that people have full control over what they post. Obviously, if I say, "I only use the word 'however' as town," that's not valid. But if I say things like "my reads change more fluidly as town" or "I'm more willing to work with other people as town," that's not something I can necessarily control. So some types of self-meta can be valid.
(By the way, happy birthday! And you know, I only wish players a happy birthday as town. )

The opportunistic arguement I hear on this site is almost as bad as the wifom one it's something people say when they can't back up the case because they know it's true

I'd say instead of opportunistic I'm being...observant

You pulled a vote on me out of nowhere when a wagon started to form on me despite having expressed no signs of a scumread earlier
That's opportunistic

You're right the read out of no where cause I legit haven't read a single thing yet and I just started re reading and this is the first read I have oh well! call it a coincidence call it taking advantage of the situation call it whatever you like this is my vote atm~

This post annoys me immensely and I can't quite figure out why. I think it's the combination of the "I do what I want now deal with it" attitude and the lack of proper punctuation.

1208 is pinging me fairly hard. (Also your high school started already? Jeez.) I haven't liked a lot of things Cakez has said recently, but... meh. I'll have to see if Creature has had good results reading Cakez, because I'm going to need to have something else besides myself to back up any read there.

Also, I feel so bad scumreading mollie ( ) but I really don't like her read progressions (especially compared to the last game I played with her). She claimed to be a self-resolving issue, which is reasonable, but I'm still not sure where I stand on her.

-smart

[Young and Witless]

ewwwww 1301, 1304, and 1359 are terrible.
(And I'm okay giving BBT some space for his claim, at least for now. Also I've found I can read him better if I take a step back after I get caught up in something.)
VOTE: Maxous
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I think Wisdom and MoI are town. I have no idea about mollie, I guess I'm okay tabling that for a few days.
Kuroi and Cakez are tough... I could see Cakez as a Maxous partner, but Kuroi's reads are actually pretty good.
I think there's exactly one scum in <Maxous, MariaR>.

No idea where Creature's head is at.

@everyone voting SirCakez: do you see him as a potential partner to Maxous? If so, why not vote Maxous?

@Maxous: what do you think we're doing with our vote?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Being unsure on a read is normal what makes this one really fishy I understand the "following" part though.

I see someone following my thought process on 2 player I've scum read and it makes me feel the need to take a shower.
It's not something I recall YAW saying anything about previously either.

Ironically, I don't follow what you're saying at all.

What thought process of yours did I follow?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

haven't you heard, wisdom is a wake alt

but seriously, why are people wanting to lynch mollie?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

unfortunately i'm not the best at explaining, but tl;dr - Something Smart isn't scum-reading people, he's handpicking lynches.

This doesn't even make any sense. If you're talking about my scumreads of you and BBT, two of the strongest pushers of our wagon, it's pretty evident that there was at least one other scum on that wagon, probably two.

Besides, you can ask anybody who's played with me; my tone is always like this.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Let me break this down a bit without sipping on that wine there.
How did you feel kuroi play was similar.

VOTE: kuroi

Not feeling the hebichan lynch anymore

At this point herbi had not said anything but you suddenly don't feel the wagon.
You basically voted on a vanity wagon that wasn't going to happen before deadline and I'm going to say hmm that sound like town wisdom?
Because if you think that sounds like your playstyle let me have link to when that started.

What would be the point of him doing this as scum though?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Let me break this down a bit without sipping on that wine there.
How did you feel kuroi play was similar.

VOTE: kuroi

Not feeling the hebichan lynch anymore

At this point herbi had not said anything but you suddenly don't feel the wagon.
You basically voted on a vanity wagon that wasn't going to happen before deadline and I'm going to say hmm that sound like town wisdom?
Because if you think that sounds like your playstyle let me have link to when that started.

What would be the point of him doing this as scum though?
-smart

I hate that question because scum do things for a wide range of reasons.
Example Infinity for our last game asked me why I was not voting his scum buddy or town reading him.
Do you think I knew it was to help his scum buddy?
So I ask what is the town motive instead.

Well, it seemed like you were simultaneously suggesting that he was trying to save his buddy and that he was making a meaningless vote.
And I mean, what's the town motivation in voting any vanity wagon? To express your feelings, even if they won't affect anything at the current time.
Given the way hebichan's posting started to go downhill, I seriously doubt scum!Wisdom could have thought he could save her, and it seems like doing that would just draw needless attention as scum.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Am I crazy? He's saying Maxous is wavering between hebichanscum and YAWscum(?)... for TOWNCRED

He can only get towncred from having his options open between two scums.

wut

I interpreted that post as, Maxous is pushing hebi's CW yet also keeping it possible to jump on hebi to get towncred off of hebi's flip.

I concur with what DGB says. But nobody seems to want to lynch YAW because 'bad VCA'.

also wut

What about the VCA is bad?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

The VCA is more than that.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Ankamius' iso is revolting rubbish.

I don't disagree with this.

Sc: why you town reading kuroi and basic?

Basic's posting (for example 980 and 1015) give me town vibes. I also liked their out of the gate Hebi push.
Kuroi is gut, not super strong.

I do disagree with this. I don't think either of those posts were particularly good.

Oh, for whoever is worrying about Ankamius; the way hebi treats beeboy in pages 14-15 makes me pretty sure beeboy is town

Disagree with this too.

Wisdom is town, Basic & mollie might want to consider voting for scum instead

Pretty sure YAW is town.

Vote: kuroi

Tell me why?

and why is Maxous town?

and why is Kuroi scum?

Not sure about max, but YAW is ss. Sometimes I think the guy works in backwards land when it comes to scum huntinh.
He is an odd duck when it comes to scum tells and as I said I see a lot of smiilarities from this game and our last game together.
He also seems to lurk more as scum.

this isn't entirely true, though
my activity is a combination of how busy I am and how engaged with the game I am.
(and my scumhunting is not backwards... I just don't like it when people hard push townies and then are like "whoops" after they flip )

Oooo i voted 9 x this game day and 3 on the same player.

How dare I try to figure this game.
Maybe I should just sit on my vote and not interact at all.

it works for BBT

-smart

[Young and Witless]

@YAW. Would you say you rule people as town to begin with and gradually think of someone as scum over time?

For me at least people start as null. Why do you ask?

i think YAW is getting away with a lot just because they were coincidentally a counter-wagon to a flipped scum

ewwwwwwww
What makes you say it was coincidental?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

what does this "ewww" thing mean?
that's twice you've said that to me?

-

coincidence is coincidence?

hang on, i'll drag up the Vote count

Spoiler:

Day 1, VC 11

Young and Witless (5)

-

BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, pirate mollie, hebichan

Iprobablysuck (4)

-

MagnaofIllusion, SirCakez, beeboy, PeregrineV

pirate mollie (3)

-

DrippingGoofball, Maverick1102, Wisdom

SirCakez (3)

-

CatDog, My Other Head Is Scum, TiphaineDeath

hebichan (2)

-

KuroiXHF, Young and Witless

Maxous (1)

-

Iprobablysuck

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! Deadline is on August 20th at 11:00 AM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2016-08-20 11:00:00).

Mod Notes -
Wisdom is on V/LA until August 10
Searching for a replacement for beeboy

[/align]

Day 1, VC 16

Young and Witless (5)

-

BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, pirate mollie, hebichan

hebichan (5)

-

KuroiXHF, Young and Witless, MagnaofIllusion, Wisdom, My Other Head Is Scum

SirCakez (2)

-

CatDog, TiphaineDeath

pirate mollie (2)

-

DrippingGoofball, Maverick1102

farside22 (1)

-

SirCakez

Maxous (1)

-

farside22

CatDog (1)

-

PeregrineV

Not Voting (1)

-

Ankamius

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! Deadline is on August 20th at 11:00 AM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2016-08-20 11:00:00).

Day 1, VC 17

hebichan (7)

-

KuroiXHF, Young and Witless, MagnaofIllusion, Wisdom, My Other Head Is Scum, farside22, Ankamius

Young and Witless (5)

-

BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, hebichan, DrippingGoofball

SirCakez (2)

-

CatDog, Basic

pirate mollie (1)

-

Maverick1102

farside22 (1)

-

SirCakez

CatDog (1)

-

PeregrineV

Wisdom (1)

-

pirate mollie

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch! Deadline is on August 20th at 11:00 AM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2016-08-20 11:00:00).

unless the scum-team preemptively foresaw you as a counter to hebi then your counter-wagon just happened to be there. well, unless you're calling DGB scum i guess

It's true that we only became the CW to hebi because we happened to be a wagon when hebi became a wagon, but it's not a coincidence; somebody on that early wagon (BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, pirate mollie, hebichan) thought we'd be an easy mislynch and stuck with our lynch and pushed it over hebichan's (as did, I believe, all five of those players). So I think besides hebichan there's probably exactly one scum in that list (maaaybe more but that'd be putting a lot of your eggs in one basket for the scumteam).

And the "ewwww" was at you trying to paint it as though our being a CW to hebi has no bearing on our alignment, which is ridiculous.

3 votes until scum is lynched

Kuroi mollie is not happening, at least yet. Vote maxous

This pretty much sums up my feelings right now.

I was just curious.
In RVS you seemed though you were scrambling, cakes was probstown start game, he was trying to push discussion and meta reasons.
But you find it hard to call with him.

What is your read of him now? Do you think your read of him is reliable?
I suppose im trying to get a sense of where everyone is at.
On that note, whats your opinion on BBT? And how does that effect your read on DGB?

If your wondering my take on it.
I think it started an opportunistic wagon. But not one that gained traction. You are at null for me. So i'd like to hear some of your opinions.

So the early read on Cakez was me reaching to try to get some sort of meta read on him, which is not a good idea. Anyway, my read of him right now is somewhere between "I don't even know" and "maybe scum? for VCA reasons and associations with hebi and max?" and my response to your question of if my read on him is reliable is a grim chuckle.

My opinion of BBT is "playing exactly like scum except for the claim". I can't really see town BBT acting like this at all, and the only thing that's giving me pause about that is his claim. That said, I know BBT is a very self-aware player who has already been shown to be able to manipulate his meta, so I don't think him thinking up a claim like that that would pseudo-clear him on the basis of the claim making no sense as scum is out of the realm of possibility. (tl;dr: he's really scummy and could still be scum even though his claim was really good.)
-smart

[Young and Witless]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Young and Witless]

oh hey it's dwlee.

I'm not unhappy with Creature's vote.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I really want to see Cakez's fullclaim before the day is over.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I really want to see Cakez's fullclaim before the day is over.
-smart

Why do you want this?

Because he's playing a way I've only seen him play as scum (and some of his posts like 2269 give me a bad feeling), and I don't want him to wriggle out of a lynch with a clever claim if PV flips town.
If PV is town, then Cakez should hang tomorrow.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

oh what
I thought cakez was softing gunsmith
wtf??

You can't be serious.

I'm not sure why players have this paranoia about sir cakez claim without waiting for Pere to claim first.
Whomever is demanding a claim on sir want to explain why Pere shouldn't claim first?

Common sense.

Cakez is giving himself a huge out here. He already admitted that there is a 15% chance that Peregrine could be town.

If Cakez's result is as damning as he seems to think it is (while simultaneously acknowledging that there's a decent possibility that Peregrine is town), Peregrine's claim shouldn't make a difference. However, if Cakez is scum, he might be able to adjust his claim based on Peregrine's.

-smart

[Young and Witless]

Also, with Mollie, what doesn't make sense is her claiming when there's no indication that she's about to lynch. If she's a bodyguard, there's no reason to claim. A town bodyguard does NOT want scum to know that they're a bodyguard.

this is completely bass-ackward...
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Also, with Mollie, what doesn't make sense is her claiming when there's no indication that she's about to lynch. If she's a bodyguard, there's no reason to claim. A town bodyguard does NOT want scum to know that they're a bodyguard.

this is completely bass-ackward...
-smart

How?

Bodyguard is (or should be) balanced as a pseudo-IC, in that it can take the night bullet for an otherwise confirmed or towny player. If mollie is in fact a bodyguard and she does stop a kill, that will save town a lynch and protect a townier or more important player; same result if the scum kill her. Whereas, rather than lynching her now, we can, as Wisdom said, see if she has failed to stop a kill by LYLO, and if so, autolynch her then.

What makes you say that a town bodyguard does not want scum to know that they are a bodyguard?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Whereas, rather than lynching her now, we can, as Wisdom said, see if she has failed to stop a kill by LYLO, and if so, autolynch her then.

Lmao I like commas too much
-smart

[Young and Witless]

VOTE: Magna

Don't mind me

Also DW his mislynch written all over him I don't think he's ever gonna be a good vote.

This reminds me of some of the posturing Maria did in Machiavellian... Maria, do you like to whiteknight? (I know you like to bus and I know they're connected.)

So the thing about Kuroi is he clearly isn't backing down from what he's saying despite everyone shouting at him how stupid it is... either he's trying to alert the town to a threat that nobody else seems to see, or he's trying to throw doubt onto a claim that should not be doubted.

To be honest, I don't get the feeling of either; he's more just being incredibly stubborn and generating noise (which could be an attempt to divert attention away from his buddy Peregrine, I suppose). So I'll have to look at how he behaves around mollie and Wisdom.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

what

-smart

[Young and Witless]

You have my support

VOTE: Magna

[Young and Witless]

scumpool: <Kuroi, Maria, Basic, MoI>

-smart

[Young and Witless]

^ew
How do you have both Maria and MoI in there

Why is Xk town?

no u

because they're both playing like scum... I don't necessarily think they're together

as for Xk, I haven't really gotten a strong impression from his recent posts. Why is he scum?

-smart

[Young and Witless]

MoI is playing like he did in Princess Bride
Maria is playing like she did in Machiavellian
Kuroi is playing dumb like he did in Game of Thrones and that Pokemon game mollie was talking about (granted, I wasn't in those, but I've read the Pokemon one multiple times now and I see the similarity)

MOD can we have a votecount please

-smart

[Young and Witless]

MoI is playing like he did in Princess Bride
Maria is playing like she did in Machiavellian
Kuroi is playing dumb like he did in Game of Thrones and that Pokemon game mollie was talking about (granted, I wasn't in those, but I've read the Pokemon one multiple times now and I see the similarity)

so all three are scum?
Because all those are scum games

no but one or two of them very likely are and we shouldn't be lynching people like Xk while they are alive.

the case on MoI is the strongest.

pedit: farside don't answer questions for me. I don't think all three are scum together, though other than that 2874 is pretty accurate (although I'd describe lynching Xk as more a null policy lynch than a lurker lynch).

-smart

[Young and Witless]

ty for that btw^

the "case" on MoI is the strongest?

what case?

the meta case. Maria is admittedly a very dynamic player and I've never seen Kuroi's scumgame personally. But I've seen MoI on both sides and this is his scumgame.

MoI is playing like he did in Princess Bride
Maria is playing like she did in Machiavellian
Kuroi is playing dumb like he did in Game of Thrones and that Pokemon game mollie was talking about (granted, I wasn't in those, but I've read the Pokemon one multiple times now and I see the similarity)

MOD can we have a votecount please

-smart

What part of don't try to meta me because I change my game do you not understand and I am not even acting close how I did in that mafia game

your play is different, but I don't think your tone is that different.

You're lurker lynch

no u (learn to spell)

But seriously stop with the "lurker" lynch. I am not voting xk for lurking

you're voting him for not being towny, right? (ftr, I agree with that, I just don't think he's done anything scummy either)

-smart

[Young and Witless]

The thing about MoI is not just that he's tunneling (although I have only ever seen that as scum). It's that he doesn't seem like he really believes his arguments, which was exactly the impression I got from his lackluster DGB push in Princess Bride that only went through because DGB completely lost it. Now rereading his Maxous push, he actually seemed to really believe it (or maybe really want it, because Maxous for all his pushing on us would have been an easy mislynch)... but I don't think the same can be said about his recent posting.

And @Wisdom I've played two games with him (one as his scumbuddy, another where we were both town and he replaced out) and modded one game (where he was a strong driving force for the town).
-smart

[Young and Witless]

his pushes on you and Maria and his refutations of farside.

and anyway, I have successfully meta'd people off of two or three (and this is three) games in the past, but meta only strengthens the argument that he's scum because he doesn't believe what he's saying.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

UNVOTE:
I think we lynch Maria and if she is scum then shoot Basic or Kuroi and if she is town then shoot MoI.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

VOTE: MoI
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Also your demand for a case on you is something I see from scum way more then town. Scum want something to tear apart so they can look more town from it.

I don't think this is as accurate as you think it is
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I would love to be a serial killer. Dont think ive ever got that role. Shame.

it sucks.

also how can you be null on us?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Maria is town.
I can't imagine scum not being in MoI/Basic.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Hi, MoI, were you scum?

[Young and Witless]

SK doesn't make sense at this point.

[Young and Witless]

Unless Xkfyu was the last of the scumteam.

[Young and Witless]

The SK would be Robert Kirkman.

[Young and Witless]

VOTE: Basic
what are you talking about trying to prod me basic it hasn't even been 24 hours since day start
-smart

[Young and Witless]

@ Mod. These guys need steaming white hot cattle prods in unpleasant places: Y&W and Dwlee

lol what

[Young and Witless]

Scum between {MOHIS, MariaR, Basic}, don't think it's anyone else.

[Young and Witless]

MOHIS looks townier there so.

[Young and Witless]

Mostly by PoE.

[Young and Witless]

I promise I'll look at some ISOs soon.

-smart

[Young and Witless]

prodge :/
sorry guys, I've been busy.
I think lynching Basic/MOHIS in either order will end the game (and when I have time I promise I will ISO them).
-smart

[Young and Witless]

zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Young and Witless]

sorry :/

I'd need to devote like an hour to an hour and a half to this to come up with anything coherent and I just can't because college

I will keep looking for a time though

Just ftr I think DGB-scum would have killed off BBT already.

-smart

[Young and Witless]

Basic/Farside/Fire ought to win then

though I'm pretty sure it's just basic so it probably won't matter

-smart

[Young and Witless]

Basic > Farside > Fire > Dwlee > Maria > BBT > DGB

Last 4 are solidly town

I'll hammer farside if people agree to lynch Basic and Fire if the game doesn't end.

and btw if DGB were a traitor wouldn't the game be over already?

-smart

[Young and Witless]

Who would be your third pick for scum then?

-smart

[Young and Witless]

most versions of traitor I know (except in Stack the Deck which is weird) are endgamed if they're the last scum alive.

should I just hammer it doesn't seem like anything else is happening

-smart

[Young and Witless]

ohey it's shadow

I don't get the DGB wagon at all.

(and by the way shadow, the way stack the deck does traitor is really weird and unusual. I don't know how Radja would do it; I don't think he's ever used a traitor before.)

-smart

[Young and Witless]

pagetop

now we just have to find one town in <farside, Basic, Fire>. Thinking Fire atm.

Will reread (actually this time).

-smart

[Young and Witless]

Finally I can play there.

[Young and Witless]

Let me see the VC

[Young and Witless]

Btw, so far I didn't see anywhere a good argument as to why there must have a scum doctor.

[Young and Witless]

Can you make/link one?

[Young and Witless]

why maria over farside?

-smart

[Young and Witless]

Sorry, I didn't have access to my computer. Hopefully I don't have to exit home for a good time.

[Young and Witless]

@Creature can you do a re read of iso of [basic and maria]. I think scum in this pile and I'd like to bounce off ideas.

I don't think it's MariaR solely because of she being the neighbor. I don't think there's a scum neighbor. What do you think?

[Young and Witless]

Which fits farside22 more this game?

Active, stubborn. Repetitive, inefficient, blunt.
Lurker, reasonable, clear, efficient, and eloquent.

[Young and Witless]

Basic is probably the last scum. If it's not Basic, it leaves Fire, though, I don't think it's Fire.

[Young and Witless]

We weren't talking much lately.

[Young and Witless]

Going to see what Smart thinks.

[Young and Witless]

VOTE: Basic

I am tired of waiting, Fire can hammer if he wants.

[Young and Witless]

Can you confirm yourself with it?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Oh so it's a desperado.
I don't think you should shoot us, we're basically confirmed anyway.

Shooting either Maria or farside should work. I'd tend toward farside myself.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

You know he's lying right?

I don't think so; it makes a lot of sense... the Walking Dead games have always included one role that is non-normal but is somewhat well-known. I was actually wondering why this game didn't seem to have one, and desperado seems like a role Radja would use (and he hasn't used it before).
-smart

[Young and Witless]

I vote that you use it on farside
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Welp, I guess we gotta do this now. :/

Fire, who do you think it is between Maria and farside?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

lol

farside, claim
-smart

[Young and Witless]

oh lol

Jim, VT
-smart

[Young and Witless]

this game...

fire do you still think farside is more likely to be scum than maria?

-smart

[Young and Witless]

you're still not admitting that farside could be scum?
-smart

[Young and Witless]

so am I lol

and AFAIK creature thinks it's Maria soooo...
-smart

[Young and Witless]

scum doctor is a strong possibility... especially given that now we have another pretty strong PR that we didn't know about before.

though really YOU should be explaining this to ME...
-smart

[Young and Witless]

Maria you're hurting my head saying how screwed you are

it's super wifomy and not even true; the only person who strongly townreads farside is you... I was leaning toward her being scum over you for a while.

Not sure why you would say that.
-smart

[Young and Witless]

:/
-smart