Mini Theme 2008: Role Design Committee [Game Over]

[Not Known 15]

The second round of submissions will be with known alignments, we should talk about what to submit when that round begins(not earlier because it would not be AI).

[Not Known 15]

So now we can talk about it, I have a role in mind usfull for town, but unfortunatly also usfull for scum, I have a failsafe in mind, that would make the role more protown (and be a fun role imho for 2 players).
My question is or should we go full pro-town here and submit roles like masons that can only be town.

No not only those that can only be town and super helpful; mutant would likely only use round 1 roles then(and something tells me that this would not be great).
Three Mason submits... maybe.
Otherwise:
roles that have little use for mafia and lots for town:
Alignment catching Cops(useless for Mafia)
Innocent child variants that work with both alignments
strong bodyguards(kill attacker)
Alignment action roleblockers(useless for Mafia, but weak to mod changes(unfortunately the mod said they might slightly change roles)
Weak Loyal roles(great combo; Loyal prevents weak from ever triggering when you are town, totally useless as Mafia

BUT mutant might change that and remove the weak or Loyal part for mafia so maybe not so good idea

)
6-shot Bulletproof
AND
deceptive roles with hidden parts, but only if these hidden parts actually help town only.

[Not Known 15]

I thought about even/odd night JK who are neighbours to each other.

What? That will only help Mafia!
No please submit a mason or a cop then. Or any other much better combo I listed.
But please do not submit

that

!

[Not Known 15]

On other posibilitys are copvariants, Gunshmith for example (Yes can catch a Vig but that shouldn't be a role that we submit anyhow exept as loyal vig).

You forgot the first round of submissions Stefan.

[Not Known 15]

I mean a vig that only works on mafia, don't know how it would be called.
Than a gunsmith can only catch vigs if they are in the game, still a good usful for town, with minimal use for scum.

A gunsmith also catches any sort of COPS and we do NOT want that on scum.

[Not Known 15]

Tbh posting a night phase role is fucked. I ruined the night phase with my first submission.

Uhh what? Can you be more precise there?
Also.... Mutant might not use that submission.

[Not Known 15]

Take a nexus and add some modifiers.

Oof that is purely antitown. No matter on whom. And it isn't skill related.

[Not Known 15]

Thats a monster. Lets hope the mod doesn't put it in, but shouldn't it die night 1, nigktkill if there isn't a protection?

Not Lightning rod(draws actions towards them).
Nexus(redirects actions directed towards them to someone else).
e.g. cop investigates Mafia Nexus, redirected to town->result town.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Momrangal
Let's see what they have to say about the accusation.

[Not Known 15]

I might be considered Mafia for most purposes(even if my alignment is town) so

please don't visit me if you are Weak.

On post 198: I'll sheep this.VOTE: Espeonage

[Not Known 15]

So NK15 you're effectively a miller?

I am possibly a miller, maybe even a death miller. This part of my role is partly hidden from me(which means I have no info how it works exactly).

[Not Known 15]

not known i'd prefer if you claimed now

...
policy?
tbh i'd prefer to lynch either mom or nico
at this point in time i'd actually prefer nico, mom has *reasons* for saying what she said and i'm going to go with those until nico is lynched
VOTE: Nico

Can you please tell me

- why you vote Nico Robin?
- why you think that fishing my role is beneficial for town?

[Not Known 15]

2) Your role is antitown, and it's best for town to know about any antitown roles so that we don't PL or force claim a powerful PR or accidentally lynch someone when they're at L-1 because of an antitown role.

This is correct...
but I already revealed everything on my role that might be anti-town (unless it is completely hidden from my view; but that is true for everybody).
Everything else is not antitown and will not result in these problems you mentioned.

[Not Known 15]

I am also not sure if I believe our miller/death-miller that counts for purposes to any role targetting him as scum, that has some extras.
If town did send that role I exspect a claim about the hiden parts.
If scum did it, why give that role extras?

There are several possibilities for that:
1. Scum submitted that role Round 1.
2. Scum submitted that role Round 2 and gave it additional powers because:
-scum could have recieved the role
-it had higher chances of being in game as not exclusively antitown role.

[Not Known 15]

I've seen the reasons for Nico Robin votes. Can someone tell me why they are alignment indicative?

[Not Known 15]

I wanted to not lose the game if rolled scum so i I put in fucktonneme of redirection in a role so anything night phase would be screwed until a massclaim which is otherwise useless because we could have a bunch of wifom so massclaim won't be useful to work out alignments.

No I mean people talking their protownness up. Ignoring that sending a pro town role before alignment should be a bankable offense due to potentially playing against wincon.

But yeah, I mostly don't want people going I did a pro town role so I can be credible later when it has no bearing on alignment due to being before alignments.

Can someone tell me how those 2 statesments make sense together? You are sending in a role that is pro-mafia and someone sending in a role pro-town is playing against wincon? I know you like to play mafia, but this together how can this come from the same player?

Tbh people trying to say they were pro town before alignments are immediately under suspicion, because it's basically LAMIST.

So you are saying that you suspect people for stuff they did prior to knowing if they are town or scum. In another game thats like suspecting people for posts in the signuptread for a large themegame.

VOTE: Espeonage, I thing you are better as town.

Why did this push go away?

[Not Known 15]

I currently have no scumreads.

Which means:
VOTE: MafMen

[Not Known 15]

I currently have no scumreads.

Which means:
VOTE: MafMen

brave

Well, if you don't get any scumreads then it is time to pressure those who have posted the least substance with their posts.
And that is, in this case, you.

[Not Known 15]

i literally replaced in not long ago
good job

You don't get it. You are part of an inactive slot. Your replacement is not of any relevance to this:
If I don't get scumreads and some people didn't post much then they are more likely to be scum. The only way to resolve this for you is to provide content.

[Not Known 15]

Ok... TIAM could be scum. Every time I played with them their behaviour was like this. And the reasoning applied to low info posters also applies to them- if I don't see sth scummy with in the active and readable players then scum could be one of the unreadable players, too.
And TIAM is not helpful to town as either alignment so they would not be a big loss for town if they are town.
VOTE: TIAM

L-1!

[Not Known 15]

lmfao kn15
hru even town

What is this question?
Yeah, I am town...
I just don't see anything that indicates scum with good probability on anyone. And TIAM is playing horribly as usual so why should we not lynch them?
If they are scum we get rid of scum Night 1, not bad.
If they are town we get rid of someone who will be a liability for town later anyways. Scum will only kill good town so we would have to lynch them or to suffer them at a potential LYLO/MYLO. That's not bad either.

[Not Known 15]

Stefan needs one less vote to lynch, and the worst TWO less to lynch!!!

[Not Known 15]

yeah and higher quality too...
just look at the MafMen iso
VOTE: MafMen

[Not Known 15]

wait didnt nk claim a role

I am possibly a Miller/Death Miller... but no I didn't claim my full role.

[Not Known 15]

nk15 has been defending nico this whole time

BS.

[Not Known 15]

Stefan needs one less vote to lynch, and the worst TWO less to lynch!!!

Okay getting me lynched should be a bit more difficult now.
How do you know that we need less votes to lynch?

The votecounter in the opening post...

[Not Known 15]

Also, please be careful with voting. If my first role is in the game, people will get cursed and take less and less votes to lynch (down to 3).

[Not Known 15]

I don't know what it looked like yesterday. He could have started out weak, and maybe something happened to him during the day phase. Had to be a day thing I would think.

The worst had one less yesterday. Now it is two.

[Not Known 15]

Worst. Are you the infected and infect other people at night? Also does someone want to claim this submission?

Snarky already did.

[Not Known 15]

Worst. Are you the infected and infect other people at night? Also does someone want to claim this submission?

Be CAREFUL. That role can be Town.
Stefan was a Lightning Rod so the curser was likely redirected.

[Not Known 15]

Yeah...VOTE: Alonzo
Rereading their ISO they did not much but throwing shade upon townreads and defended it with being paranoid...
and pushing TIAM for behaviour.... but they never explained why.

[Not Known 15]

Yeah...VOTE: Alonzo
Rereading their ISO they did not much but throwing shade upon townreads and defended it with being paranoid...
and pushing TIAM for behaviour.... but they never explained why.

Was that a question?

It was a statement, but please give your reasons to us.

[Not Known 15]

What do we do about the snowman?

[Not Known 15]

Snowman's ISO is all mechanics and roles and no scumhunting whatsoever, and with sketchy activity.

[Not Known 15]

Although I find the push by MafMen on Kokichi strange that could come from paranoid town. But it isn't true that Kokichi has been in the background all day.
It doesn't look that good.
Snarky Snowman.
I think we should push that.
VOTE: Snarky Snowman

[Not Known 15]

I mean he confirmed me as town which was nice

1.You are not confirmed town.
Your role could be altered by the mod by removing the faction-specific restriction on unlynchable.
You could be scum with the snowman.
2.What utility has your status as confirmed town?
You are antitown.
Correct me if I am wrong; but your role decreases the number of people needed on a lynch by 1 per day, up to 3 less total, correct?

[Not Known 15]

Correct me if I am wrong; but your role decreases the number of people needed on a lynch by 1 per day, up to 3 less total, correct?

[Not Known 15]

If we lynch 2 mafia and 5 people are left we wont be in MYLO but multiple people will be at L-0 at the start of the day...

[Not Known 15]

I haven't started yet, I'm waiting for my PT first.

for my PT

Um.
PT.
like in
scum PT?

[Not Known 15]

I think it is a towndrivenwaggon, the weakest read I have on Ankamius, but the rest I think is town.

Why do you townread Alonzo?

[Not Known 15]

Furthermore, I'm inclined to believe that Stefan's role is town

Is it?
Being Bulletproof isn't town indicative.
And the Night 1 Lightning Rod isn't either. As long as we do not have a cop that can determine that it actually does not matter much if town or scum got that role the effect is the same. The only difference is that Mafia has a 1-shot bulletproof LR that has no additional abilities, but that is possible.

[Not Known 15]

(And I saw no reason to townread Alonzo at this point.)

[Not Known 15]

I think it is a towndrivenwaggon, the weakest read I have on Ankamius, but the rest I think is town.

Why do you townread Alonzo?

Something u wanna ask me NK?

currently not and you are null to me.
That TR came out of nowhere, that's why I asked.

[Not Known 15]

I'm not super sold on TPG being scum. I would only vote there if I were hammer and the group absolutely will not go somewhere else.

What does make you hestiate on TGP being scum?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Chickadee
Ankamius called her out for her suboptimal contributions.
Especially the daykill attempt out of nowhere and their general looseness with the daykill.
Until now I treated her as town because of her role.

That was stupid, and here is why:
It is one shot of a kill.
Normally this would be strange on Mafia because it gives Mafia a free kill and town one less lynch.
However...
On night 1, due to Stefan and their role(1-shot BP LR), Mafia actually did NOT have a kill!
This role makes perfect sense as mafia.

[Not Known 15]

exspecially considering that Chick did get her rolePM and then submitted

no. She got her alignment PM. The role PM came later.

(I know that because my role made it clear that it was the second role).

What makes you sure that your role means that she is town? You stop one kill, not two.
You also make every other action redirect to you, including things like the The Worst curse, removing one day for actions to target others...
It is not that powerful in reality that it couldn't be abused as a "clear" for Mafia who submitted it.
The Mafia had factional communication during the second stage of the role submission, it would have been easy to coordinate submissions.

[Not Known 15]

Ankamius is active and brings reads.
Pine/Snarky was more inactive.
Chickadee looks scummy.
So... why do you push for Ankamius?

[Not Known 15]

I'd actually be much happier with an NK lynch today, if we're willing to switch. I'm fine with Anka though.

Given that you were not comfortable with voting me before, why are you now?
And why are you fine with voting Ankamius instead of me if you would be much happier with my lynch?? We still have 3 days.

Now, why don't you actually SHARE your reasoning for the Ankamius votes and your scumread?
It is very fishy that people call legitimate questions on scumreads

chainsaws

(despite chainsaws being not AI in itself) and then proceed to

not answer the questions(in this case the actual reasons for the proposed Ankamius lynch)

[Not Known 15]

My reads have not changed. Vote Chickadee.

[Not Known 15]

Reading back through, I actually think NK15 could be town. Looking at their posts, I'm just having trouble finding scum motivation behind some of them. I'm not interested in an NK15 flip today.

Pretty sure town:

StefanB.
the worst
SnarkySnowman
Not Known 15

Not interested in flipping today:

TheGoldenParadox
momrangal - still on VLA for another 9 days :/
Kokichi Oma

Dead pool:

Alonzo
NicoRobin
Espeonage
mafmen

Stefan, nk15 is scum with anka.

So.... that change of read on me needs to explained....
because it looks to me that the read was abandoned when I started to push Chickadee...

Then we have the reckless shooting by Chickadee... shooting before the answer of a question remember?

[Not Known 15]

I am THIS:

Nope. My scum role is Mafia Fortune Teller. If I predict who is lynched I become a JOAT the next night.

Alignment is town...
If you want to know where this miller/death miller thing comes from...
look at the role again- it says Mafia.

[Not Known 15]

BTW: Who did you predict both days and what are the JOATPowers?

Both days?
um... It was changed to night by MD, making it even weaker. And my role contains lots of mod interpretations.. how certain things work.
And last night I targeted MafMen aka Ankamius but I was probably redirected to Stefan...(yes my reads have changed a bit due how weak they were at the end of Day 1)
JOAT powers are Rolecop, Roleblocker, Protector(like Doc but full protection) and Watcher.
And no the TIAM flip does not make it impossible that it is a Miller.

[Not Known 15]

Also I think now that her role was modified by the mod somehow and that's the most likely cause of the no kill last night.

Stefan looks better lately and rethinking with that revelation made me realize that it didn't need to be theatre for her play to still be as scummy as it has been, so I'm missing a scum somewhere.

Sorry no. We had a JK claim and that explains the nokill(with the LRod). The LRod is also one guranteed nokill with its 1-shot BP and would balance off the problems from a 1-shot scumvig.

About Stefan I agree that he might not be scum. But worth considering is that Chickadee herself claimed to have made the role. Hm.

[Not Known 15]

Full Protection?

against kills, but against an unlimited number of kills(e.g. townvig+scum) the same night(in contrast with doctor who can only protect against one kill).
It was NOT that more likely - and still is- that I am not somehow a death miller or Miller. TIAM flipped town as Town X, not surprising...It could be that I am not a death miller, but maybe I trigger weak roles, show up as Mafia to cops, I dunno what... Mutant did some things with my role(interpretation wise and such)...
I doubt that redirection doesn't work with it(but if it would then I could do sth tonight if Ankamius flips; and I have no time to ask now).
Unfortunately, I will not come back until day end and a nolynch is possible with this time so-VOTE: Ankamius but I think she will flip town.

[Not Known 15]

Lynch
... on town.

[Not Known 15]

I was already at L-1 before your vote.

[Not Known 15]

I hope I am not a death miller.
If I am not:
Look at Chickadee tomorrow.
AND look at the wagons

and their changes

in the last 3 days.

[Not Known 15]

NK who deserves a bullet on your wagon?

Chickadee.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: NK15

TW, Koki, you know what to do.

And if she flips scum evaluate this for yourself- could be signaling.

[Not Known 15]

Well, none of my roles got accepted, not even the Sacrificer, even if the sacrificer was neither all-powerful nor alignment fixed...(although in practice town-favouring)
the other one, fair... it wasnt alignment fixed but clearly protown.