Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:26 pm

In post 3260, mastina wrote:Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.

What did you know about WIFOM that SN didn't know?

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:31 pm

In post 3929, mastina wrote:Fucking hell, as if I wasn't already having a bad enough day……

MOD: V/LA DUE TO SNOMWMAGEDDON: SNOWPACOLYPSE DEITION
.

At this rate, we could make a full film series!
SNOWMAGEDDON: "
Hell's not Fire and Brimstone…
"
SNOWMAGEDDON 2: SNOW MORE: "
We Weren't Ready for the Comeback…
"
SNOWMAGEDDON 3: SNOWFALL: "
The Mighty Fallen…
"
SNOWMAGEDDON: SNOWVALANCHE: "
Get Ready to be Buried…
"
SNOWMAGEDDON STRIKES AGAIN: "
There's SNOW Escaping…
"
SNOWMAGEDDON SIX: SNOWPACOLYPSE: "
The End is Upon Us…
"
SNOWMAGEDDON SEVEN: RAGNAROK: "
The Final Installment…
"
SNOWMAGEDDON: SNOW AGE: "
Get Ready for Glaciers…
"

…Admit it. It'd totally work as a cheap SyFy disaster flic film series.

But yeah.
Wish me luck going home.
Given the rest of my day thusfar. I need it.

If you freeze to death, listen to this in your last moments. Good luck!

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:15 am

In post 3993, Kokichi Oma wrote:Oops quote that pls wisdom

Thanks for making me feel better.

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:19 am

In post 3994, Joan of Arc wrote:
In post 3990, Joan of Arc wrote:-INCOMING MESSAGE-
ALL YE WHO DECIDE TO ENTER HERE WILL HAVE A SWELL TIME!!!!

This is my first game I've ever played with you. My first experience with you is you explained

to me

how I hate you and don't care about your opinion and that because other people have been mean and disrespectful to you that you can be mean to me, while AT THE SAME TIME saying "If you don't want it done to you, don't do it to someone else."

I don't understand why

anyone

would want to play with you again.

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:19 am

Chito: Yeah with that hammer optimism in a red flip on Gamma plummets :/

womp womp

so anyway should we ditch our role? All we do tonight is change from being a pgo to a disloyal pgo which, I guess is cool but seems kinda passive for getting an endgame solve. Put faith in the RNG and reroll or...?

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:20 pm

In post 4020, mastina wrote:My D1 play?
Normal me.
My D2 play?
Not as normal of me, but still close to my normal me.
My D3 play prior to the modkill?
Normal me.

My D3 play post-modkill?

Fucking ticked off.

Chito: Am I missing something here or are you claiming scum...? Why would a modkill on scum make you 'fucking ticked off' as town?

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:35 pm

Last VC: C&Y

Page 160:

In post 3978, Pink Ball wrote:VOTE: Gamma Emerald

It's counterwagon time

In post 3979, Almost50 wrote:Whatever. OK.

VOTE: Gamma

His vote pm me was either scum indicative or brainless indicative (or both, actually)

In post 3980, Torque wrote:ah amazing

thats the spewing post i'm looking for (3977)

VOTE: Gamma
This is more likely right than A50

In post 3987, Near x Mello wrote:Actually i give up on gamma developing a brain here

He "acknowledged" my 1 hour post where i tried to clear up any misunderstandings around my read on him only to call me scum again in the next post

it will still prolly flip town but i dont care at this point

VOTE: gamma

Page 161:

In post 4000, mastina wrote:Pretty sure this isn't the hammer, so:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald.

Today I finally have the capability to fucking respond to the last...what? 20 pages or so?

I know that technically speaking placing a vote on the lead wagon is detrimental to that as it only takes a hammer in order for my ability to catch up be silenced, but hey.
That's what the neighborhood is for; it serves as an emergency catchup backup, where I can outline my thoughts and bring them to the thread D4 if need be.

But ideally, nobody hammers until after I finished catching up, which will take me a few hours most likely.

Last VC was on page 159 so I don't know why you would forget our vote was still on Gamma, and then all the votes to L-1 were basically right next to each other on 160... you knew what you were doing.

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:02 pm

Chito: Mastina you wanna claim flavor for RP?

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:20 pm

In post 4051, mastina wrote:You're surprised at the logical conclusion of that?

Chito: I'm about 3000% more concerned about the fact that you claimed you didn't think it was a hammer than that you actually hammered.

If you had said "lol Gamma flips scum ez" I woulda been like, hmm ok

but going "Oh this isn't a hammer *hammers* lol woops" is scummy AF

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:24 pm

In post 4077, Reasonably Psychotic wrote:Why...why would you claim your role Chito?

-Yukiteru

That's on me, I've been arguing we should reroll and Chito wanted to keep it and we decided we should do what Almost50 did and ask people. I guess we're keeping it now and just feeling dumb having claimed...

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:34 pm

Chito: Without going into more detail that plan wouldn't work. If we have a gate I'd rather not say its limit.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:23 pm

Chito: Dunnstral is an idiot

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:40 pm

Chito: Cerb why did your hydra split into two players?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:44 pm

Chito: why do you need everyone's flavor?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:50 pm

Chito: This may come as a shock but at the start of the game...

we were Chito and Yuuri

I know, I know, no one saw that coming

The anime is called Girls Last Tour

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:24 pm

Chito: Odd. If you're a weak visitor, what makes you think Dunn targeted you?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:49 pm

Did Dunn claim he planned to target Elena in any of the channels?

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:52 am

Chito: I'm not sure that us being targeted by every confirmable action is a good idea. Anyway I think we should keep the emphasis on dayplay

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:52 pm

Chito: lol wisdom when did you start scumreading me?

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:56 pm

Chito: Why is Elena town?

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:58 pm

Chito: I'm still v/la thru sunday, yuuri has some life stuff come up so sorry, guess I need to say

v/la

Pedit: what specifically has made you shift your read of her?

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:05 pm

Chito: you are townreading her for saying pb is mech cleared? What specific mastina interactions?

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:09 pm

Chito: remind me how many people she cleared in children of hurin again? You flipping your read of me because elena claimed a protown mechanical result certainly is interesting

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:10 pm

Chito: I literally just said I'm out of town and asked you to explain what made you flip your top read lol

Yeah Joan has a point about you.

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:21 pm

In post 4748, Elena Fisher wrote:
In post 4744, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: remind me how many people she cleared in children of hurin again?
This is a really bad argument because each game is different. Trying to compare the 2 is just bad. I'm trapped scum if I am scum right now. Because I have openly said I'm a vanilla town

Chito: it's more wisdom has been a condescending douche in the pt about his reads so him flipping his read here because you claimed a protown mech result is just unexpected

Him being skeptical of me because I second guess a lot of reads is kinda weak but w/e

I'm not actually doing anything in this game while I'm stuck phoneposting tho if I can avoid it. How much time do we have on deadline?

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:24 pm

In post 4754, Near x Mello wrote:so basically chito is trying to slowly build up a push on me

Chito: oh is that what I'm doing wisdom? Wow you're really good at this game.

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:31 pm

In post 4757, Near x Mello wrote:lets note that theres still zero mention of mastina

Chito: That's a really good observation wisdom you should play mafia professionally

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:44 pm

Chito: 4753 was basically all I am saying about mastina when I don't know how much of the thread I haven't read lol

Chito and Yuuri · Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:57 pm

In post 4739, Near x Mello wrote:because read the game

In post 4766, Near x Mello wrote:yeah because you totally need to read the thread in order to share your thoughts about mastina's hammer
or any thoughts in general

Chito:
I asked why you flipped your read of elena and you responded with vague bullshit

You apparently want me to read the thread but also make uninformed comments on the leading wagon

Now you're pissing me off and I am jetlagged so I'm going to pass out before you piss me off into voting you

Chito and Yuuri · Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:49 pm

Sorry, I got really sick just as Chito had to go V/LA. I'm also way behind on the thread.

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:57 pm

In post 4897, Torque wrote:coming into the day and wanting to vote Elena for.. a, um, confirm town slot

Chito: How is Elena a confirm town slot?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:41 pm

A50 should be able to post here starting in like 20 minutes or something right?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:20 pm

Chito: Elena, were you in a channel with Dunn? Was he aware of your plan to weak visit {PB}?

Does anyone have any idea why Dunn would have targeted Elena last night otherwise? He didn't indicate he was townreading her before night began.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:56 pm

Chito: What moved your read of Elena, A50?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:08 pm

In post 4825, mastina wrote:Almost50, in spite of claiming otherwise, had a method of knowing about content from the Channel 48 neighborhood where Dunnstral posted the Morality suspicion.

He has proven access to no less than two other neighborhoods.
If he has the ability to read/interact with three...why not all four?

The scum spy is literally outed as being Almost50.

Chito: @A50, I think I kinda gave up trying to actually make my way through mastina's wallposts but I keep feeling like I should seriously engage with them but there's just so many repeated points. You're right that her playstyle is really frustrating here.

I think this was the only point I got hung up when trying to work through. Could you have posted in Channel 7 instead of having me communicate with RP on your behalf?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:21 pm

Chito: Anything else we want out of this dayphase?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:22 pm

Here's this again (re: spoiler at bottom of this post).

2.12-->2.13 is interesting to look back at at this point with Dunn's flip, although it doesn't perfectly resolve the mast/elena solve vs A50's mast/joan solve.

3.10 does make me feel a bit better about it not being Elena/Joan wildcard.

Torque in VCA is a bit worse than I remembered but that's not enough to budge my read for now.

There's a few things I want to talk through with Yuuri but at this point I'm not sure when she will be better or able to really focus or get caught up on the game.

@mastina, who is the scum in 2.13 again?

Spoiler:

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:48 pm

In post 4954, mastina wrote:Almost50 had multiple chances to cast a vote on D2--he chose not to.

Chito: He voted both you and Elena, who you just said is possible scum?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:13 pm

Chito: Mastina, your arguments for A50 scum kinda ignore the things that make him town. One thing that I know you're not aware of since we haven't really talked about it is that A50 was starting to push Ankamius the same night that scum were nightkilling her (which we know since Gamma vigged RC right) in Channel 5. Just for reference, I have never seen scum push someone in a PT the same night that they are nightkilling that slot.

Feb 26 post A50 post from Channel 5:
"I told you guys Clemency was scum. Ank started by stating ooba not saying much upon his replacement was scummy, but look at where she has him ob the read list. She initially put singleton on the same level as me/Toog but then decided to move them up a notch."

This is the post of someone who is submitting a nightkill on Ank within the next 18 hours of that post? Like... I don't think so.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:40 pm

In post 5003, Cerberus v666 wrote:*sigh* Maybe it is just C&Y+someone else? They're still being incredibly cagey in the PT I made with them, doing things like pointing out that scum wouldn't risk targeting them with the claim they made, even if scum were confifent they were lying, while not extending that line of reasoning to the fact that I *did* choose to target them and what means.

Amz, though, thinks their suspicion of us, which is rooted in their fear that our slot splitting was caused by us getting killed by dunn last night, is a very town thought to have.

Chito: I don't really understand this. First I kinda have extended that reasoning, but it's kinda a wifomy argument in the first place. We still don't like you for scum.

As for being "cagey" you only post like once every two days so I don't get what you mean by that

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:49 pm

Chito: Anyway Yuuri is kinda caught up and I think we're both fine with a mastina flip at this point.

I kinda wanted to sort out Cerb and Wisdom's read flips on my slot but I think Wis just had a bad reaction to me being v/la and I guess I get Cerb's problem.

Pedit: @cerb what I think is throwing you off is that while you are likely town, Yuuri's reads are more important to me so I've been kinda waiting for her to feel better.

Anyway, your reads are kinda boring to interact with anyway.. like what big masonry conversation are you expecting when two of the most important slots to this conversation are "I have no read"...

What's mastina at anyway?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:21 pm

Chito: There are some things I've been thinking about, namely: the Creature wagon, which does not include mastina; the argument from Severa that mastina was possibly town; my own early impression that mastina could be town. Those are three reasons that make me tempted to second-guess myself heavily here, particularly when Elena really just doesn't have a lot of posts that make me go, "oh yeah this has to be town."

So for me this has been "which is the better lynch between mastina and Elena" but at this point it seems no one is really into an Elena flip today and frankly me and Yuuri just don't feel so much more strongly in Elena scum over mastina scum, given the hammer on Gamma which is still pretty on my mind, that we really feel the need to start some big crusade for Elena, even if, I think I would slightly prefer Elena over mastina... but only slightly and frankly after Gamma I'm just not really so deadset on anything today. I actually liked A50's case on Elena, and if he thinks that despite it that mastina is still the more likely scum, then I'm willing to back him up. I don't really know what to do with the replace out and I don't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole right now.

So, mastina to l-1? What else do we want today? Do we want her to fullclaim anything else now given how trigger happy people have been with other hammers?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:56 pm

In post 4095, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
Message received...

PUBLIC EVENT
Pink Ball has disappeared into the abyss. Any attempts to reach her may result in calamity.

This was never explained and elena never explained why she would continue to target pink ball despite this message right?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:55 pm

Chito: It has been a week in this dayphase so you should be able to post

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:05 pm

Chito: A bit better now, probably some of the worst jetlag I've had to be honest but I'm hoping I'll actually be functional tomorrow. Thanks for asking. You?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:23 pm

Chito: @Liger, I think there are different reasons for people pushing mastina here, I will try to capture the different arguments that have been made for different reasons.

Wisdom (Near in Near and Mello) feels that

A50:

Spoiler:

I think A50 explained his argument better in Channel 5 before it closed, so make sure you have access to the locked channels (even though they're locked).

I'll just c/p here -- this is probably the most coherent thing A50 said about mastina:

"Anyway, check Wisdom's great work about mastina in the main thread and you might finally see the light. I'm probably being pushed because mastina is used to me doing gambits as town, fake crumbing a PR when I'm a VT and outright claiming VT when I'm a PR. In fact, the second time she ever saw me play she was modding a game where I was a Town Vig and claimed PGO to avoid the NK. She thus believes what I said about my role being useless and shitty to be a bluff and would expect it to be something powerful.

Like, you don't know half of the truth about me and mastina. She once wrote a manual for reading me (I believe it was in Steven Universe 2) which I've used to bring my town/scum play closer to each other.

The problem here is she isn't even using her own manifested manual for reading me. She's literally inventing reasons to make it look like she scum reads me. Like, if you have time go read SU2 (it's a very large game) and see how she defended me all the way and only had minor doubts towards the end if the game, despite the fact I HARD defended Sircakes (who was lynched on D1 and flipped scum) and then kept defending RR (who was the scum leader) all game.

I also never FoS a partner then reverse my read on them. I may FoS and try to direct the lynch elsewhere, but what I did with Robert/Ninja is out of my scum range and she knows it (or claims to).

Everything here points to Elena+mastina, and if I make it through this cycle (day and night) I may be able to prove it. If not, then I am fine getting lynched on D4 if needs be just to remove myself from the scene altogether.

Also, her "A50 shot Drixx bal bla bla" doesn't make any sense to anyone. If I was scum with Vedith & Robert then the right thing to do was to shoot the other 3 in THIS CHANNEL. Scum don't have daychat, so we should (and would) have turned this channel to out mini scum PT that works day and night.

As I said before, if this is town!mastina then I am never ever going to play with her again."

Wisdom gets accused of saying a lot of noise about mastina, but I think his most coherent argument against her was around here somewhere:

Spoiler:

In post 3587, Near x Mello wrote:btw for those of you who let mastina lead you by the nose with posts like this:

In post 3516, mastina wrote:
In post 3495, Near x Mello wrote:How does night kill analysis point to Almost being scum in your opinion?
Because Drixx died; Ankamius died. Both had other reasons to die and Almost50 isn't going to kill someone JUST because they scumread him...but they both scumread him.
lets actually remember who drixx scumread and wanted lynched, shall we?

In post 1156, Drixx wrote:
I would prefer Martina but that’s not gonna till I don’t think so...

VOTE: Vedith

In post 1199, Drixx wrote:
Who but me is seriously going to push Mastina? Once I flip then Vedith gets roped I think. QED I would prefer what I view as the more difficult and dangerous slot.

In post 3588, Near x Mello wrote:Or maybe you prefer posts like these:

In post 3514, mastina wrote:I was one of the strongest contributors to getting Vedith lynched D1.
Let's look at the contribution:

In post 656, mastina wrote:
In post 653, mastina wrote:Super Smash Bros. Fan/Vedith
Near x Mello
Asking for a friend/Pink Ball
Toogeloo
Reasonably Psychotic
Btw, for some clarity on my feelings there.

Yeah I know my reads aren't great.

But I still feel there's a minimum of one scum in here--and actually feel it's at least two. It could be as high as three.

I'd be flabbergasted if I got four (I'm never that good), but this would be an
incredibly
off game if there wasn't at least one in there.

Reasonably Psychotic and Toogeloo are the strongest two, so my best bet, though honestly Near x Mello might be my third-strongest there.

Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.

In post 927, mastina wrote:
In post 924, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: Mastina-chan you should join us on Vedith-kun
In post 923, mastina wrote:
In post 880, singletonking wrote:mastina, since you're scumreading Vedith and Pink Ball, why aren't you voting either?
You apparently didn't read right if you thought I was scumreading Vedith.
In post 656, mastina wrote:Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.
In post 654, mastina wrote:
In post 652, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: Mastina, would you like to join our team and put your vote on Vedith?
Honestly my hopes aren't high that he'd be scum. Quite the opposite I kinda think he's town. I'll vote there to get a lynch, especially since we don't
need
to use every day on our deadline (it's a week away), but I just kinda feel like.
And my only reason to really vote Vedith is to get that lynch now, to end the day earlier rather than later.
So it's not that I won't join you, it's that I just would prefer not to.

In post 1246, mastina wrote:(Still don't think Vedith's flipping scum, by the way. Just, think he's the lynch candidate who gave us the best chances of flipping scum.)
i.e. three posts that actively stall and try to get people to lynch people not Vedith.

And only AFTER Vedith scumclaims and dooms himself because the mod himself could confirm Vedith was lying there, mastina comes and posts this

In post 1180, mastina wrote:
In post 1174, Torque wrote:His claim is from a 2007 show and i could be wrong but the sequel isnt after 2010 either
Also, if you recall:
Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]
mastina wrote:Question.
In post 0, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:Note that any anime that is a sequel to those that aired before 2010 is not allowed (sorry Sailor Moon Crystal and UQ Holder fans).
Can I loophole abuse this with a prequel?
Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]
mastina wrote:Also question.
Is an anime that's a different adaption of the same source material eligible? That being, an older anime is for the material, but there's a new anime for the same source material which isn't picking up where the old one left off and is starting from scratch?
Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [FULL! PM TO REPLACEMENT/SPECTATE]
Tatsuya Kaname wrote:
In post 32, mastina wrote:Question.
In post 0, Tatsuya Kaname wrote:Note that any anime that is a sequel to those that aired before 2010 is not allowed (sorry Sailor Moon Crystal and UQ Holder fans).
Can I loophole abuse this with a prequel?
Prequel and sequel is merely the same thing.
In post 33, mastina wrote:Also question.
Is an anime that's a different adaption of the same source material eligible? That being, an older anime is for the material, but there's a new anime for the same source material which isn't picking up where the old one left off and is starting from scratch?
As long as myanimelist.net doesn't identify that as a sequel/prequel/whatever, then fine, you can use it.
This seems relevant.
and is now acting as if this^ somehow contributed to the Vedith lynch. Newsflash, Vedith made a claim that, once again, would be confirmed false BY THE MOD. Not to mention singleton and others having already picked up on this. Not to mention Drixx fucking counterclaimed doctor. All of these prior to this post.

And yet Mastina is acting as if she somehow gets credit for the Vedith lynch. What is this if not scum manipulation?

In post 3589, Near x Mello wrote:
In post 2262, mastina wrote:
In post 2231, Near x Mello wrote:whoever is listening to fl here should quit mafia
^
Or maybe youd like to look at this post where mastina encourages my tunnel on FL

And maybe think to yourself, even if mastina thought FL is scum, why the hell would she encourage such a toxic comment from Wisdom?

But I guess mastina only has issues with how I play when I'm scumreading her, am I right?

Pink Ball argued that mastina has been playing as cheeky scum since her first post although I think his most current reasoning is that the 1v1 between mastina and A50-slot (your slot) has reached a point of needing resolution:

Spoiler:

Torque I believe presented it as a PoE lynch to push for a solve.

I have a lot of mixed feelings on the slot but I really didn't like the Gamma hammer and I have an easier time towncasing most other slots.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:38 pm

In post 5100, Liger_Zero wrote:Chito why aren't you voting anyone?

Chito: I don't want to put mastina to L-1 until we're basically ready for day to end and have all claims etc. we want from her. I've also been discussing mastina vs. elena vs. {basically anyone else} in my hydra PT with Yuuri since Yuuri has been sick and is only now catching up. Cerb also reminded me that Elena targeting Pink Ball does not prohibit her from having killed Dunn so I've kinda been thinking about the likelihood of Elena killing Dunn given the arguments she made about Dunn targeting her.

You can also see 5041 for my concerns with a mastina flip (in terms of VCA I would have slightly preferred to lynch on the Creature wagon today), but that's not really a good enough reason to force a counter-wagon frankly so I'm feeling a bit adrift frankly.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:02 pm

In post 5111, mastina wrote:Okay so what about 4825 is "inventing reasons"?
Rather than actually (bleeped because bleep the mod) scumhunting?

Chito: For reference, that was from Channel 5 before it was locked, back on Mar 2 -- I believe that's when A50's read of you was first articulated as a coherent scumread, which is why I was bringing it to the attention of L_Z, since frankly I think it's kinda hard to find given how dispersed A50's posts are between the PTs and the thread. That post was not made in reference to what's going on now since Channel 5 is still locked and has been since start of night.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:06 pm

In post 5111, mastina wrote:Do you want me to quote that entire wall again?

Chito: I guess this was not clear but the point of that post was to help the replacement understand why you are at present the lead wagon as I understand it, you are more than welcome to link the wallposts you have made in response to any of those posts though since I doubt he has read them yet. I don't see why you would quote it when you can just use the post link tag.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:25 pm

Chito: mastina is l-1.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:41 pm

Chito: Since A50 just got replaced, Joan could you summarize in a few sentences why you think mastina is town, or link to a post where you explain your reasoning on her slot?

Chito and Yuuri · Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:53 am

Chito: I guess from that ate joan no longer says she becomes a treestump if lynched?

Chito and Yuuri · Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:00 am

Chito: mech thought: if dunn redirected all actions from elena to dunn, and elena shot dunn, would dunn then redirect his own reactive kill to himself thus explaining the missing reactive kill?

Chito and Yuuri · Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:01 pm

Chito: I also asked Tatsuya via PM about Elena being a weak visitor targeting Pink Ball and interaction with Dunn, and since Elena's ability is based on her targeting Pink Ball, not Elena targeting herself as a result of targeting Pink Ball, Pink Ball being scum could not have caused Dunn's death (wildcard scenario I didn't think was likely but wanted to rule out mechanically).

I'm pretty okay with Elena being scum here, there were two posts I wanted to double check were not town indicative with Yuuri.

Chito and Yuuri · Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:29 pm

Chito: Elena, I thought you were reading every post. Scum nightkill is factionally multitasking, as Cerb just reminded us like a few pages ago, so you visiting PB does not confirm you did not target Dunn with a killing action.

As for you being supposed to be tracked, I guess Torque never explained why he targeted himself over you, but did Torque confirm he was tracking you in the channel or something?

Chito and Yuuri · Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:15 pm

Chito: Elena, from your point of view, the only people on the Creature wagon whose alignment you don't know are N&M and Joan. Do you think there is a chance that the ENTIRE Creature wagon was town, and if not, you seem to think Joan would be the most likely scum on the Creature wagon?

Chito and Yuuri · Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:20 pm

Chito: But you just said you believed you were being watched, right? So you had to say that Dunn targeted you, because you thought this would have been mechanically confirmed from another player?

Chito and Yuuri · Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:04 pm

Chito: That's not very strong reasoning when people can drop their roles; the miller may have simply been incentive to switch roles on n3, or there could have been more investigative options that could have been unlocked with a role change.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:10 am

N1 self watch (we visited ourself, no other visits)
N2 self heal (considering death count pretty sure this did nothing since ank was prolly the scum kill)
N3 I would prefer not to say unless absolutely needed
N4 vigged mastina

so this should be 1v1 between joan and torque?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:20 am

Chito: for the record cerb wanted to lymch nxm today but he had been exclusively focused on his back pain and so could not effort into convincing me to shoot nxm over mastina, which made me pretty uncertain about the competence of his read. He also didn't explain why mastina was town... Night was really boring considering he had just given me shit for not being more active in the hood.

I mention it not to push nxm, only to say that's the only content cerb said in the hood over night basically.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:23 am

Chito: looks like torque has not voted yet so this is l-2

VOTE: joan

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:52 am

In post 4100, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: Dunnstral is an idiot

Chito: ok

N3 I copped elena and it got redirected to dunn

So I had an inno on Dunn and knew that dunn did in fact redirect from elena to dunn

The pgo thing was a lie to protect the cop action

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:52 am

Chito: each unlocked on the night it was used

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:57 am

Chito: Not sure. Each head is flavored as having 2 actions, though (on alternating nights)

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:03 am

Chito: joan Are you asking if I think Torque is scum or not? Because between you and Torque, yeah I think it is you. Unless you think Torque is lying as town as like a reaction test?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:06 am

In post 5493, Near x Mello wrote:meaning you can cop again tonight?

Chito: If I can cop tonight I need to have the flavor of who I am going to cop.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:10 am

Chito: specifically I can only cop humans

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:11 am

In post 5497, Joan of Arc wrote:
In post 5494, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: joan Are you asking if I think Torque is scum or not? Because between you and Torque, yeah I think it is you. Unless you think Torque is lying as town as like a reaction test?
Why do you think he cannot be scum who is lying?

Chito: cause you pushing nxm while in a mech 1v1 is exactly how you played story revisited when you had a parity cop guilty on you

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:13 am

In post 5496, Near x Mello wrote:no problem, flavor is known

VOTE: no lynch

Chito: who am I copping? And we have torque watch me or what?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:13 am

Ebwop: ok

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:20 am

Chito: likelihood of scum double kill should be low?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:28 am

Chito: So torque can't watch me, so the only benefit of nl is that I die and we go back to odds?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:49 am

Chito: wisdom what was n1?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:08 am

Chito: If game comes down to joan vs torque anyway it is better to do that today over nl, since that would force scum to choose between me and torque for the kill tonight imo. So theoretically one of the two of us could get a useful result. If we nl now then joan just kills me and torque gets nothing useful going into lylo round 1. Although I probably die regardless and a watch on pb probably isn't game winning so w/e. I'd say it's up to pb but I do think it's better to lynch joan today unless someone is going to case torque.

I actually don't even like some of torque's votes that much but yuuri thinks he's town and elena was really sure he's town and joan looks like the joan from story revisited so I do think we can just do that.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:09 am

Why can't torque die tonight?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:11 am

Chito: so did torque have protection n3 or not then? Your protection is delayed?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:22 am

In post 5542, Joan of Arc wrote:Again, why do you use meta to read me? Use this game to read me. If I have to read people based on this game only, then by golly, so do the rest of you. >.>

Chito: Just to be clear you want to sit and wait to give this a week and another night, right Wisdom? Why exactly do you want to give Joan a night?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:31 am

In post 5546, Joan of Arc wrote:Or better yet, why are you allowed to read other people based on meta and I'm not? What makes you so special?

Chito: There is a difference between saying "you seem similar to a scum game where you made similar strategic decisions and had similar reactions to mechanical results" and "anyone who considers the possibility mastina is scum is a terrible person and you should feel ashamed", fyi.

One of those things is an inference based on past behavior, the other is an emotional threat and an uninteresting argument.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:46 am

In post 5548, Joan of Arc wrote:Well, for someone who uses meta so well, why didn't you do your job?

Chito: I'm not really saying you're scum based on meta, ignoring a mechanical 1v1 and continuing to focus on Wisdom isn't a townie reaction in any circumstance regardless of meta. All meta does it reassure me that this is a weird reaction that CAN be scum indicative, it is not surefire proof you are scum. It's just something that, between you and Torque, makes me more okay with you being scum.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:02 am

Chito: No idea. I'm slightly concerned it's you given your push on my slot, if Yuuri and Elena are wrong it's Torque, if I have been seriously wrong the whole game it's A50-slot/liger. I hate gamestates where I'm forced to guess which read I've been wrong on the whole game.

I guess probably you since that would match Joan's idea of taking mastina's strategy of focusing on massive amounts of scum theater to absurd extremes. Cerb didn't buy my towncase on you in the PT based on your Vedith interactions and I think I have stronger reasons to townread everyone else at this point. But I've liked you as town for most of the game and think some of your PT interactions are at least nominally difficult to fake so honestly I'd probably just wait for a mech result or death so I don't have to think about it. (I've been having some stress-related health stuff, and while that has a lot more to do with my job than this game, I'm not going to stress myself out on this game if I'm just getting nightkilled anyway tbh)

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:44 am

Chito: PB in the scenario I don't die tonight would you rather I check A50-slot or N&M?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:11 pm

Chito: PB, so do we flip Joan or NL?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:16 pm

Chito: That's what I'm asking, because I think we should just flip Joan.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:39 pm

And when I flip green how exactly does that change your reads?

Do you suddenly start thinking it's Torque?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:47 pm

tbh this certainty you randomly developed that I am scum seems fake af

to be clear, you think that I vig mastina, who was had me locked as town, over you, purely for towncred?

bitchplz

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:54 pm

Chito: So what exactly a nl do then? If you're right and I'm scum, then Pink Ball gets killed and I come up with either a guilty or an inno on A50, neither of which you will accept. That doesn't help your PoE at all, so I ask again -- why are you giving Joan a night? Why is it suddenly that either Torque or Joan can be scum?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:13 pm

Chito: So you accept that tomorrow will continue to be a 1v1 between Torque and Joan, and you can't cop tonight, right? So again, my flip does not resolve anything, unless you suddenly feel like my green flip makes Torque scum, which frankly makes it seem like you're just setting up excuses not to vote Joan at this point. You've been insistent that she's scum the entire game until her claim, then suddenly from her claim you decide she's scum. So are you somehow scum with Torque trying to get a wagon on Joan pushed through while appearing to support NL, are you scum with Joan playing toward theater this whole time, or are you town who can only townread people when you're being a condescending dick to them?

Again, if I flip green, then you are left with the exact sample problem of today. If I somehow am red, and Pink Ball is flipped (which probably won't happen) then if you're town you're left with a lylo where torque/joan is still probably unresolved. So when have you ever been willing to give scum a night because you were unwilling to decide between a 1v1?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:19 pm

By your own account you can only send a dmail tonight, which can't even protect someone tonight, so we can't even leash you to someone. The only way your even night cycles around is by getting a red flip out of the Joan/Torque 1v1 either today or tomorrow, and if you're right and me flipping green makes it Joan+Torque (which I find incredibly unlikely) then we can't miss today. So are you saying that me flipping green would make you vote Torque over Joan at any point this game? Because if that is a scenario that happens, then you should be saying why Torque is scum now

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:20 pm

In post 5583, Near x Mello wrote:i dont care. Flip green and let me worry about my problems. Not giving you your win today.

So you accept I'm town and you're claiming scum now?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:22 pm

In post 5586, Near x Mello wrote:i dont think im being vague

we nl and then lynch you if youre not dead tomorrow

Then i cop torque for the last one

Yeah this is horseshit

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:23 pm

So your actual goal here is to nightkill Pink Ball then, if I have an inno on A50 slot, push me or Torque over Joan, is basically what you're saying?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:25 pm

So are you scum with Torque then?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:29 pm

Except then you'd have to deal with a stronger mechanical PoE because PB is already town, Torque caught Joan, and I would have an inno on A50-slot.

So who exactly do you leisurely win by mislynching in 4p then?

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:56 pm

If you're both town, then that would require A50 to be scum, which would mean I would solidly blame you Wisdom, not Joan, if that was the loss that occurred.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:59 pm

Chito: In fact you just said you'd lynch me over the mechanical 1v1 in Torque and Joan if I was alive tomorrow over mechanically lock town Pink Ball -- so actually, saying you're town here is giving you a fair benefit of the doubt.

If you're town I blame you 100% for this loss and you alone.

pedit: yeah, because I die and we set up the risk of a scum 1-shot vig losing the game instantly in that scenario, so we gain nothing and risk throwing the game

thanks for the shade though

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:18 pm

OK so your concern with Torque is primarily based on Joan faking stupid AtE as scum, when that is literally the central argument I made against her which you casually disregarded until you then voted her this dayphase.

You think that me pushing back on you makes it "obviously me and Torque" when maybe what you should realize is that your playstyle is obnoxious and your condescending attitude is a piece of work either way.

I do think you could plausibly be scum with Joan, I also think you could be scum with Torque, but I think Joan is much more likely to be scum than Torque and I somewhat doubt Torque/Joan instigated a 1v1 in mylo here as w/w.

Since you continue to insist on A50 slot town then it hardly matters what the actual alignment of that slot is given if you are town you will never vote it.

You keep acting like my green flip somehow will make the 1v1 between Torque and Joan easier but all you're doing now is reacting to my skepticism of you, after you have tried to poison the well of any skepticism or criticism of you. You've been highly manipulative this game, but more than that, you've been a complete POS in the PT, a condescending douche to Joan (regardless of her alignment), and have made a lot of uninspired non-pushes against our only scumflips and a bunch of garbage tunnels on a lot of strong town players.

Yeah, if you're town, I blame you if this turns into a town loss. You want to keep playing the blame game saying it's okay to mislynch Joan and then blame her if she's town -- but it is you who I will blame if town loses this game 1000% of the time, and if you are town -- which at this point I have some pretty serious doubts about.

Your positions here actually don't make that much sense -- Cerb is right that your pushes this game have been garbage and if you're town, this is an awful game for you. I guess that means you're a bad player and you should stop joining games, since that seems to be the attitude you want to foster. Does that explain why Mello basically stopped playing except to say a few condescending remarks in Channel 5 before noping off to whatever planet he inhabits?

Like at this point the best point in your favor as a player is to simply call you scum because if you're not, and you have this massive ego while having reads this bad, then you're just a garbage human being in addition to being a garbage player, thanks.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:49 pm

Chito: I think you've been incredibly obnoxious given you gave me so much shit about my meta reads, put on this whole bravado show about how you can truly read people because you've played with them as though your method were somehow flawless, and then you have the gall to come in today and think that I fucking vig mastina over you.

But yeah, I was shocked that this game was still so toxic and hostile even after extremely aggressive players like RC died, I never understood why Dunn was so hostile, I don't get why Elena just gave up like that, a lot of things are hard to compute this game. But I do think that one of the main reasons this game has continued to be so hostile and toxic is because of you. What really pisses me off is that Yuuri actually was more skeptical of your alignment than I was but she also felt like she sympathized with you. So if you're scum I think that your form of manipulation is extremely unpleasant to play with and if you're town your ego is completely out of control and that is a big factor in why this game has played out the way it has. Like I get that this site has a lot of massive egos but it's like, whatever, stop talking shit about other people's methods if you are going to play this bad.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:57 pm

I know it will never happen but at the moment I'm with Joan, I would lynch Wisdom outside of the mechanical 1v1 easily here even though, let's be real, Torque had literally no reason to instigate a mechanical 1v1 with Joan before massclaim and so Joan is almost certainly scum here--and that Wisdom has not reached that realization yet is incredibly scum indicative for him.

Since he swears by his massive ego that A50 slot is town I guess we can just take him at his word and solely blame the game on him if he is wrong there.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:03 am

In post 5617, Near x Mello wrote:i was talking to chito

Don't fucking guilt trip me into voting town if you want to play with me again, Wisdom. Talking shit about my meta reads when I knew the risks I was taking and then being a condescending douche about your mastina and Elena reads only for them to both flip town has left me incredibly soured on you. And Cerb is right, your iso is hot garbage and if you are town -- I blame you if this turns into a loss. I want that absolutely clear to you since you since you've decided to turn every other post about Joan into a load of shit about how you think she's bad at this game. Every time you say that, I'm going to say you're either scum or bad at this game. You keep emphasizing your own personal feelings toward players over objective reads based on a load of shit about your own "personal meta" with them and then backpedaling when you're wrong over and over again. I totally get why people don't want to play with you now in a way I didn't before.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:06 am

In post 5624, Joan of Arc wrote:The way I see it, scum are among you, Chito and Torque.

To be clear, Wisdom, you want to give this a day.

Torque instigates a mechanical 1v1 and instead of solving around that, she is still acting like she is sorting Torque.

Like she could not be more obviously scum here but you are hung up on the fact that I am rightfully pissed at you. So either you are scum, or you have an immense amount of cognitive dissonance about how obnoxious you have been this game.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:10 am

Chito: Yeah, and being a condescending douche about my Joan read and giving me loads of shit about my skepticism of your mastina push make me feel really really all sunshine and flowers about your play if you're town.

I've been incredibly chill for this game up until tonight but it feels like you have gone out of your way to make this game as unfun as possible.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:11 am

Chito: You're literally arguing you want scum to nightkill me because you're too lazy to sort me.

You're literally despicable and you have absolutely 0 sympathy from me right now.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:49 am

In post 5635, Near x Mello wrote:Elena, who everyone thought her actions point to her for the dunnstral kill? Is that somehow on me too?

Or mastina getting vigged is somehow my doing as well?

You yourself insisted that no one would be scumreading mastina if not for you

So by your own words, yes

You can't have it both ways -- insisting that when a wagon gets going that it's entirely your doing, and then saying that when someone resolves the 1v1 that you had no part.

You stalled on your own claim so now there are fewer reasons to townread you based on claim, and as a "self-commuter who can still target people" your role basically gives explanation for why you could have killed Dunn and lived while also discouraging me from vigging you if somehow I was still alive on another even night.

Your claim seems tailor made to counter-act any existing claims and then somehow you want A50 checked tonight over you when you cannot be targeted tomorrow.

You insisted that I deny being PGO which makes it seem like you basically just wanted to know you could safely nightkill me and ensure that I don't get further results.

Yeah, you cannot try to claim all the credit for all of your bad pushes when they are in the swing of things and then also wash your hands of them when town gets some flips.

Cerb wanted you gone, and the entire rest of the graveyard wanted A50 gone who you insist is locktown and refuse to re-evaluate, so yeah, at this point it's a lot easier for me to simply say I blame you if you're town if this is a loss, and you can easily be scum since you refuse to lynch Joan, yet another scum lynch you are choking on for no good reason other than your own bullshit meta excuses and the fact that I refuse to give into your groupthink zeitgeist one-line posts and insistence that people have to be scum because you deem them as such like the emperor of scumhunting, and then have the gall to talk shit to other people about their reads and methods even when you are wrong over and over again.

Anyway this is all whatever, I just wanted to make sure that if you want to start playing the blame game that you are my #1 pick. But hopefully it won't come to that because you'll just flip scum and I can say you were playing to wincon, like that is an excuse for being a toxic prick since people seem to think it is. We probably can't lynch Joan anyway without waiting for A50 slot to get past its post restriction so might as well just abandon this thread and site for a week.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:26 am

In post 5664, Near x Mello wrote:Instead of lynching blindly.
Crazy, right?

>insists that reads on a mechanical 1v1 in a 200+ page game are "blind"
>thinks a no lynch that almost certainly results in a single additional green flip will resolve this when the other 200 pages and dozen flips won't
>insists that other slots are locktown/etc. based on that same set of 200+ pages
>still hasn't explained why Torque is scum other than "because Joan does too much AtE to be scum"

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:46 am

In post 5677, Near x Mello wrote:every town in a losing game are partially to blame

Except that is not the tone you take when saying if we flip Joan and she flips town that you blame her.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:01 am

In post 5679, Pink Ball wrote:Chito, you look awful in that 1v1,

and why exactly should I care? Wisdom wants me to be mechanically sorted while also arguing he won't believe me no matter what while also saying he wants to wait 5 days so that someone who already claimed to have no mechanically provable action still claims to have no mechanically provable action.

Effectively from my point of view I will either be dead tomorrow, or the game is already lost.

Foe the record, why exactly did you start scumreading me? Because I went out of town when mastina was being pushed? As far as I can tell this game is ending with the mech town scumreading me because I was out of town for most of the time everyone else was mislynching mastina.

And now because wisdom doesn't like me pushing back on his agenda you think that me having used a vig shot means scum have no means of a double kill when you townread me for... what the entire game before I went out of town?

The reason I pushed Gamma for instance was that I felt like Wisdom's arguments about elena+mastina felt wrong and I thought there had to be another option. If he was town he had a flaw in his reads, but I guess a simpler explanation would be that he's scum and was pushing pairings this game that never made sense.

He says he doesn't want to be blamed for individual mislynches do detract from the fact that he was pushing all town scum teams basically the entire game.

Have you have played with wisdom before? When does wisdom as town go an entire game pushing exactly 0 wolves? Why are you sheeping his reads at this point?

either you are dead tonight, or I am dead tonight, and in neither of those scenarios are you in a better position to lynch your scumreads.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:14 am

In post 5693, Near x Mello wrote:
In post 5691, Chito and Yuuri wrote:
In post 5677, Near x Mello wrote:every town in a losing game are partially to blame
Except that is not the tone you take when saying if we flip Joan and she flips town that you blame her.
cute attempt to reignite joan
that wasnt even the point i was making in that post

No it's the point I'm making about you.

anyway if you are town the game is already lost in my mind, at this point to even bother continuing to play I basically have to just assume you flip scum which means your nl push has to be coming from a pov of a scum agenda.

Otherwise I should just let myself get replaced in 2 days, but that would only make sense if I thought there was a chance you might be town. Or I could judt replace out now since waiting 5 days to either be nightkilled or forced into a lost lylo with a jerk seems like a colossal waste of time.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:20 am

In post 5697, Near x Mello wrote:Whats important to note here is that chito is against information

waiting for liger is bad, no lynching is bad, everything that provides information is bad.

what is good? Quicklynching joan.

If thats not typical of a scum eager to get the win i dont know what is.

Each of these new informations also produces risks. If liger is scum then it could be that the ability he has been charging up the whole game is a scum dayvig, in which case waiting for his post restriction to be up could be gamethrowing. I don't think that's terribly likely but all we know from the slot is that he has claimed to only get one ability over the entire game that has yet to be claimed.considering the theme of this game is that more powerful abilities are vated behind weaker abilities wondering if liger is scum with a strong ability is something I have to at least consider. In any case a50 claimd to be "200% sure" that madtina was acym and then replaced out so I am not sure what I am supposed to trust in his self-representation of abikities anyway.

As for tonight, you are confident scum don't have a double kill by pushing me as scum. But I know I am town, which means based purely on numbers scum should still gave a strong power. Since you are the one pushing NL, at this point I havr to consider the different ways that may be gamewinning for you as scum

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:33 am

In post 5700, Near x Mello wrote:and it makes zero sense to me that you dont see im town

scum me never proposes a no lynch here when i can just win. Say PB was hiding a doc power and they decide to protect you while you cop me. I lose. Why the hell would i allow that instead of just lynching

You could be town. I thought you were town all game until you became the sole proponent of me being scum. In any case, unless it is joan/torque, there has to be a fatal flaw in your reasoning if town.

As for why you would push nl as scum:
A)towncred
B)joan is town and you are scum and you eant joan pushed independently of you so yoh can hammer
C) joan is scum and you are scum and you want two or three other people to vote her first so you can hammer and win -- in which case seeing how you push or don't push is informastive
D) neither joan or torque is scum, you have some sort of redirection ability, and joan doesn't even know she visited someone she actually did (highest paranoia scenario and hooefully not true)-- but here you can just do whatever you want to gain the highest towncred since the game is practically won for you already
E) because you have a double kill ability

But the #1 scenario there would be A, in case you think I'm fearmongering by outlining the wildcard mech scenarios

As for if you are town:
A) you're hedging on joan now which means tonight scum get to pick the best possible nightkill for them between me and pink ball
B) you are ignoring the chances I am town and thus ignoring whatever unstated abilities joan!scum might have, given she hasn't claimed still
C) you are right that it is torque but providing 0 reasoning because you are preoccupied with me
D)you are assuming liger is town and if wrong the game is functionally lost for town already

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:36 am

In post 5706, Pink Ball wrote:Also Chito, Wisdom is right; either you think he's scum with Joan and that he's protecting her of being lynched today, or you think they have some kind of power to make the no lynch their card to achieve their win condition. Which one is it? If you say it's Joan/Wisdom, you haven't read the game, and if you say the latter, it's just paranoia.

It's not paranoia when town had this much power such that Dunn thought there should be an entire extra scum member. My role seems to have incredible pro-town potential so considering my own role in addition to the current flips makes me think scum needs to have something. So waiting to die while also risking the possibility of a town throw by waiting isn't an exciting prospect

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:37 am

In post 5708, Near x Mello wrote:
In post 5707, Chito and Yuuri wrote:given she hasn't claimed still
she did actually

Bp? where is the rest of it?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:56 am

In post 5711, Pink Ball wrote:Why Wisdom being wrong about Liger makes the game lost for town? Have you sorted that slot yourself, Chito?

p-edit: fair!

why would town being wrong on one read in lylo mean the game is lost? Let's do the math real quick...

As for liger, I don't know. Pt interactions (with a50l were very townie, I have been the biggest advocate for that slot being town aside from wisdom, but it is simply hard to ignore the volume of people scumreading the slot in the graveyard. since I just tried taking wisdom+elena+pink ball seriously on mastina, and I have to at this point figure out which of my reads have been flawed, I have to consider the remaining possibilities. Maybe I should take it at faith that his replace out was nai and that ank and mastina and elena and the others were right.

Every major argument for town can be second guessed: since he only revealed himself in channel 5 after vedith and ninja flips, it could be that he wanted to use channel 5 as a scum pt after killing the town there, but then changed his mind because I was townreading him. So maybe I did not see the scum motivation in the first thing I wanted to townread him for.

As for his ate surrounding elena and mastina... Yeah it is hard to decide how I feel about that coming from scum but I suppose it's possible.

But the bottom line is either torque/joan is w/w, wisdom is scum, or liger is scum, but since wisdom will obviously never consider liger functionally I don't need to worry about that scenario anyway since the game is already lost if wisdom is town and wrong on that a50. He says he is willing to reconsider but, lol, please.

If joan and torque is w/w there is no risk in flipping one, if a50 is scum the game is probably lost already, and if wisdom is scum then going for nl is playing into his agenda one way or another. So in what of those three scenarios do I bother to wait? For the thrill of ignoring the game for a week so I can die when we can lynch mechanically caught scum? Sure ok go for it

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:23 am

Yeah you have been a douche to joan in the main thread so I am kinda over being nice. i don't know what happened between you two in the pt but your words to her in the main thread has been more gross to me than her weird mastina fetish.

I'm just doing the math and remebering the game. Wisdom has fought morality, mastina, and elena on a50, but then somehow thinks I vig mastina by counting on him voting people who aren't scum if a50 is town and I am scum. Then he gets indignant because I'm not townreading him enough. There is basically no world where I vig mastina as scum in this game state but he thinks I should have him as locktown when he gives me no other option.

I still have a hard time seeing a50 as scum, but I don't think my read there matters anyway because I don't really believe wisdom ever flips that read at this point if he is town. He literally just said he takes the blame for the loss i a50 is scum. That doesn't give me the impression there's a lot of room for discussion there. So why does he even want me checking the slot? why didn't he say to check torque if that's the slot he's doubting?

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:50 am

Stalling while talking about anime suggests that the game is worth continuing to play when the apparent 1v1 between you and Torque is apparently in enough doubt to justify stalling when no one actually is willing to case Torque in a manner that both me and Pink Ball could respond to the points while we're both still alive. So basically we're twiddling our thumbs, waiting to no lynch so we can get an "informative" nightkill from scum, while not processing or discussing the information at hand. And at this point I'd rather just siteflake anyway. Wisdom thinks I'm continuing to push you when what I'm really deciding is whether I even bother continuing to play this game.

I'm not going to post NAI garbage, if there's nothing game-related to talk about then I'm just going to not post, so see you in a week I guess. Here's to hoping I get force-replaced!

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:24 am

In post 5724, Pink Ball wrote:Sweet AtEs are made of this
Who am I to disagree?

Have you considered the possibility that one reason this game is so exhausting for you is that when other people are frustrated you call it AtE but when you are frustrated you think you deserve sympathy? Because you're really winning the crowd here champ.

But you're right, literally everytime someone has said a ridiculous comment like this to me when I have said I'm frustrated with the game to the point of replacing out I have generally felt like it was a better decision to simply leave the game, so I'm just going to leave the site and we'll see if I ever bother coming back.

Call it AtE, or call it you goading me into leaving the site -- your choice I guess. I'm sure you will call it AtE because you're the only one with permission to be tilted I guess.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:44 pm

In post 5737, Torque wrote:
In post 5510, Torque wrote:Chito you can only cop someone if you know their flavour, that includes the cop action n3?
chito have you ever answered this

Yuuri did research on the anime tastes of our major candidates and determined who we should cop among those we were 90%+ sure were humans.

It only works on humans so we basically had to take our best educated guess.

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:06 pm

In post 5723, Chito and Yuuri wrote:I'm not going to post NAI garbage

This is where we differ. I'm sorry for my lack of engagement, let's turn this Kettenkrad around.

In post 5549, Torque wrote:
Someone give me a manga recommendation for the bus ride :3

Kase-san (you can find it on Dynasty-scans). Cute manga about a shy plant-loving girl in love with a cool athletic girl, it's pretty great!

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:14 pm

Shows I'm enjoying the most this season: Doukyonin wa Hiza tokidoki (Sad guy is saved by getting a kitten) and Kaguya-sama wa Kokurasetai (2 "geniuses" in love with each other and comedically trying to get the other to admit it through overly elaborate manipulations mostly leading to failure.)

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:22 pm

In post 5749, Pink Ball wrote:
In post 5747, Torque wrote: what genre do you think you'd like?
battle shounen/romance/comedy/psychological/scifi/character drama/sports/cute girls?
romance, scifi and cute girls discarded.

I'm sorry, I probably have nothing to contribute to you.

Brotherhood is really a pretty good starting point, it's one of those shows that I've never heard of anyone hating once they get more than a few episodes into it, and a lot of people

love

it.

If you wanted to try something a bit more serious/dramatic, maybe 3-Gatsu no Lion which is a drama about depression and also professional shogi.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:17 pm

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:43 pm

I'm too lazy to photoshop it to say scumday, sorry?

I thought we were basically waiting for Liger to be able to post.

I'm caught up at last but I have little to say that hasn't already been said. I do think Chito went way over the top, she's pretty deeply frustrated with the game and has been since Dunn's targeting Elena really, and even before that with all the Morality/Alisae drama.

But I agree with most of what Chito said. No lynching is a bad idea, there's 0 benefit to letting us die before resolving that. Especially as I think you vs Liger is about 60% leaning you, 40% Liger, you pushing the No Lynch makes me even less inclined, but as Chito argued, there's no benefit there anyway.

I'm pretty solidly on Joan over Torque.
-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:48 pm

How am I being unreasonable?

And what's the agenda?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:02 pm

I'm absolutely for waiting for Liger, that's the main thing I disagreed with Chito on.

I've had a pretty strong townread on Torque I'll game, but present a case and I'm willing to talk about it. I do agree with Chito about Joan's handling of the 1v1 being scummy.

Explain again what changes when we lynch Joan (or Torque) tomorrow instead.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:06 pm

Assuming scum don't have some great night power (which is

NOT

an assumption I think we should be making), a mislynch in MYLO is the same as a mislynch in LYLO. But if we're dead we don't get to contribute our thoughts.

We're not the lynch today/tomorrow if we somehow lived either way, lynching anyone other than Joan or Torque is nonsensical, and given that the No Lynch accomplishes nothing other than buying scum another night, and as we're concerned your scum, we don't want to do that.

If we correctly lynch Joan/Torque, we somehow survive the night and it's still at evens, I'd be happy to no lynch then.

That's

the optimal play.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:10 pm

Although actually our result would make that pointless.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:10 pm

Why are you being condescending to me here?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:12 pm

In post 5780, Near x Mello wrote:because I need to pretend I would make this argument as town, when I'm obviously scum

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:13 pm

Chito: Sorry I won't interrupt Wisdom's riveting argument here.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:17 pm

Well I'll leave it there I guess, but I'm happy to hear your case on Torque and I hope that Liger/Pink Ball/Torque/Joan actually read my last few posts, because I think I made a good point despite your insistence that I'm an idiot.

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:19 pm

Also, Senryuu Shoujo next season is based on a cute romance/comedy manga I've really enjoyed.

-Yuuri

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:26 pm

Chito: Tempting to take the inactivity replacement since I kinda just stopped feeling this game, but I guess I'll drop the wall I've been playing with in the PT. I keep second guessing myself on Wisdom frankly but this is probably the best solve I'm coming up with at this point.

***

It's definitely Joan and I'm feeling fewer problems with Joan/Wisdom.

The main question remains Liger/A50 slot. I still find it very hard to see him as scum, even though his vote record is as a bad as most of the rest of the playerlist. If he is town, and subconsciously was worried he was wrong on Wisdom, Elena, and mastina, he might have replaced out for that reason. But beyond that, with the PT interactions, I think he's a fairly high likelihood townflip.

Wisdom I wanted to strongly townread for the Vedith wagon, not only because he was on it so early and rode it for so long, but more because he unvoted after the claim and I didn't think that if he was going for a bus he would get off at that point. But the more I think about it, the more I think I might have had that backward: Wisdom would get off, if he actually thought the claim would save him. OR, if Wisdom believed him -- do we even know if the scum had a pre-game? He might have thought he was bussing a goon and then was worried after the claim that he was lynching a scum doctor. The bigger question is, does town!Wisdom choke on the Vedith wagon over a roleclaim? I don't think so.

Aside from that, Wisdom's pushes on scum slots have all been mediocre, and his pushes on town slots have been enthusiastic and full of energy. Yet not so much energy that he always forces his target to actually get lynched, which allows the 1v1s to fester. That he allowed RC to redirect onto Creature-slot is also highly suspect in this regard. There are two slots that are unflipped on Creature's wagon -- Joan and N&M. If Joan is scum, then okay, maybe scum just hammered and the rest of the wagon was town. But at this point it looks to me like, based on the speed of the wagon, there were two scum on the wagon -- both of the remaining scum.

In Wisdom's current solve, there are 0 scum on Creature's wagon. I find that very hard to believe.

As for Joan, Joan just is scum.

Torque does not instigate a mechanical 1v1 as WvT before massclaim.

Torque does not instigate a mechanical 1v1 as WvW before massclaim.

So Torque I think is simply town.

Joan is obviously scum, she has been playing to her scum meta almost to a T in terms of Story Revisited. And it is actually in this regard that you can see why she is scum with Wisdom more easily.

Joan as scum tends to talk *to* her scumbuddies more, whereas she tends to talk *at* town more. In Story Revisited, Joan spent the entire game talking *to* mastina, and had a harder time interacting with other players that weren't scum. Here, she has spent a lot of time talking *to* Wisdom, instigating this theater, that Wisdom then uses as a smokescreen to push suspicion off of her.

In addition to that, Joan's failure to really solve around Torque's mechanical 1v1 is exactly the same way that she responded to a parity cop guilty in Story Revisited; she tends to try to just ignore mechanical guilties and hope they go away, basically, instead of responding to them in the way town would.

That Wisdom continues to deflect off Joan reflects the same strategy that he has used all game--open wolfing, while continuing to emphasize that his meta is one of aggressive bussing. Wisdom doesn't always bus, but what's more, it's very hard to see him having a game this bad as town. His reads do tend to get better as games go on, and he should be seeing Joan as scum here. That he is not is highly scum indicative.

He also says he has already targeted Torque with a delayed protection ability and that he cannot be vigged the same night that my vig is up. He claims to not have a night 1 but instead to have nights 2, 3, and 4. He claims to be a commuter that can visit people anyway. His role is highly suspect, and that his role seems tailored to deny abilities post massclaim is highly suspect.

If I am wrong, it can... somehow?... be Liger? But I think the simplest and most elegant solve is Joan + Wisdom.

If Wisdom is lying about having sent a 2-day delaying protection on Torque, and continues to emphasize that scum have no additional possible multikill or other mechanics-negating effect (despite the fact scum would probably be lying about their role), and instead says that we need to wait and see more, suggests to me that Wisdom has scum motivation in pushing a No Lynch today. I can't lynch Joan on my own but I still don't think the no lynch plan is optimal with a conftown slot in Pink Ball. In mylo situations in normal games, there is an argument for no lynch. There is also an argument for no lynch here, but since I know I am not a scum vigilante, and I feel like my role is fairly strong for town (when the cop doesn't get blocked by Dunn...) the likelihood that Wisdom is lying about one of his actions or has something that would allow him to get a double kill in tonight seems not too low. He's not crazy for suggesting No Lynch if he is somehow town, but with a conftown slot and unknown scum large theme powers, I disagree with it.

Chito and Yuuri · Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:24 pm

In post 5814, Near x Mello wrote:if pink ball dies you get a free investigation and basically solve the game

yet you are against it

Your whole rationale is that "there's probably no scum vig because if there was a scum vig it's chiito and yuuri" which is weak reasoning, something I know is objectively false, and makes me wonder whether you have some sort of reason to want NL from scum motivation. I just assume that whatever you think we get in terms of a solve from no lynching I just assume will definitely not happen. If scum think I don't actually get lynched they shoot me, if scum think they win in lylo by keeping me alive because of your read, then they do, I just feel no confidence that the game ends up won regardless of who I target or what the result is. Your insistence that there is unlikely to be a scum vig is making me think the chance there is much more likely.

Chito and Yuuri · Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:29 am

Chito: You keep arguing it because you refuse to explain why Torque is scum or Joan is town in any sort of logical way, so of course you keep going back to the policy reasons to no lynch. It is literally only informative for you and Liger. Pink already thinks Joan is scum, Torque has a mechanical guilty, and I think Joan is scum, so the only other person who would even conceivably benefit from this round of night actions you decided we had to wait a week for is Liger, who we then would have to wait another week next dayphase for as well.

Even though Torque being scum is the entire basis for your wanting to wait a week, you haven't really argued that to Pink or seemed to care that the conftown has opposite reads of you. So yeah, the argument is boring because you are choosing to make the boring argument and keep the conversation focused on that. As far as I can tell, you think Joan is town because you say Joan is town, and that's about it. Then you complain about arguing the no lynch point still when you're ignoring the larger gamestate, presumably because tomorrow will be easier when you have to convince one fewer person to mislynch Torque.

Chito and Yuuri · Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:44 am

Chito: Entering the dead thread is not my preferred form of gaining information to win the game.

Flipping my role card is not an interesting way of demonstrating my towniness.

My flip does nothing to resolve Joan vs Torque, which is something that will still be ongoing tomorrow, the game will still hinge on, and which you refuse to deal with. The only argument I've heard from you on Joan being townier than Torque is meta. Your argument that I make sense as scum with Torque over scum with Joan also doesn't really make sense, it seems like just an excuse for you to call Torque scum either way without actually explaining how you reach that conclusion.

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:46 am

In post 5901, Liger_Zero wrote:He also attracts a group of girls for no reason other than he is the main character. Those girls have no personality really either. The show runs on a cool premise with weak characters.

Don't forget about the incest!

Chito and Yuuri · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:50 am

Sorry about flipping out at you this dayphase wisdom, regardless of your alignment that wasn't cool of me.

Wanted to say that before I die lol

Good luck with second mylo town!

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:20 pm

Chito: Huh.

First, surprised we're alive.

Second, we got no result on Torque. So either we were roleblocked, Torque was asceticized, or Torque lied about his flavor.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:37 pm

Chito: You get an investigation tonight on a no lynch, right?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:55 pm

Chito: But Ninja/ooba/Robert was a roleblocker, you think there's a chance of two scum roleblockers?

Also I think that's impossible since Dunn redirected all abilities that targeted Elena to himself, so she couldn't have been roleblocked. The only way for Elena's result on Pink Ball to have given us a false inno would be if Pink Ball was a scum commuter that sent a reactive message to people that tried to target him, which would be quite a role. Or something like that anyway.

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:56 pm

Or scum ascetic I guess, something that would cause Elena's action to fail to target the player but still generate a reactive message.

Like, scum nexus?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:58 pm

But if it was a scum nexus, wouldn't the reactive ability have still resulted in the message going to Dunn? Not sure how that would work mechanically.

I actually kinda don't know how reactive messages work with Dunn's redirect and I'm not sure I 100% understand how Elena got a message from him at all

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:03 pm

In post 5946, Near x Mello wrote:pedit: the message is feedback from elena's action, not an action targeting elena, so dunn didn't redirect it

Right, but if the message is feedback from Elena targeting Pink Ball, then... Elena targeted Pink Ball, QED Pink Ball is clear because Elena didn't die. The message in that sense is immaterial unless it points somehow to Elena not having successfully targeting Pink Ball, which I'm not sure I can think of a scenario where Elena targets Pink Ball and causes a reactive message but then does not die if he is not clear

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:06 pm

Confusing.

@Mod, if a player self-commutes, and also has a visiting action that works despite commuting, and has a modifier that causes them to die unless they target a specific player, will they die despite being commuted?

Otherwise you have gated Wisdom to copping you?

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:08 pm

In post 5951, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Confusing.

@Mod, if a player self-commutes, and also has a visiting action that works despite commuting, and has a modifier that causes them to die unless they target a specific player, will they die despite being commuted?

Otherwise you have gated Wisdom to copping you?

i.e. if they don't target that player

basically trying to figure out if you've gated Wisdom here or not

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:09 pm

In post 5952, Pink Ball wrote:I didn't gate anyone, I didn't know Wisdom would target me

oh right, it's reactive

well, I mean, your slot still caused the effect regardless. It sounds like a de facto gate one way or the other

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:10 pm

I'm not "blaming" you for gating Wisdom, I'm more trying to understand whether Wisdom can still cop Torque or me tonight without dying

Chito and Yuuri · Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:13 pm

Presumably this reactive ability only became active when the "Pink Ball is in the void" text appeared in the game, which is why Torque didn't get it when he neighborized you N1?