Mini 2074: Madness at Port Arthur (Game Over)

[skitter30]

hello all!
catching up now!

[skitter30]

also

@mod: regular vla fridays and saturdays!

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter, hi. I've been seeing you a lot lately.

hi!

[skitter30]

Ye
Gonna lovktown you for now because I really do struggle to read you and randomness is on my side
Nobody touch Persivul he’s our D1 IC

this is a reminder to come back to this post later

[skitter30]

Persivul come vote skitter
It’s almost a real wagon and your vote will help it cross that special threshold

hey irrel how well do u think u can read me?

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

Oops this should have been a PM huh
Well whatever functionally I’ll probably still make time to show up all week tbh

The first post pinged me as self-conscious, but first post so whatever.

Talking about it AGAIN so soon...pretty sus.

i'm pretty sure the rules say that v/la should be pm'd and not posted in thread; it kinda makes sense for this to follow your post pointing out that this game has plurality lynching - he probably went back to read the rule post and then saw the thing about v/la so mentioned it

i don't read this as self-conscious at all

[skitter30]

But yeah I mean if someone has to be scum on the first page I’m definitely a top 3 candidate

(after Chara and insomnia)

so I don’t blame you

oh?

[skitter30]

kinda think irrel is town?

and maybe gut-town on smile?

[skitter30]

Vote: Irrelephant

hello you can call me Shii be kind to me butter me up

rvs or serious vote?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter

That’s a hammer, see you tomorrow

Ooh maybe you ARE town
Way to hammer scum

That’s one scum pinned, who’s next?

I'm looking for a biiig beefy hunk to vote with me wyd

how do u feel about Percy+Elephant together

ok apparently semi-serious. why do u think percy/irrel could be a thing?

[skitter30]

VOTE: irrelephant this Skitter wagon offends on a personal level.

y tho. when's the last time i played with u btw?

[skitter30]

insomnia's maybe town too

mmmmmmmmy only idea of Percy comes from replacing in for him in Zulfy's game. I also expected him to immediately shush and table the role-fishing Town JK discussion because of his "by the book" playstyle that Vedith described. Percy in post 23 should have voted elephant since

he

is the type to hop on players like skitter for pressure in the first place anyway I also got a bad feeling from elephant's first few posts in the same way that I did on Flavor Leaf in that game.

bolded: is that irrel or persy?

have u ever played with me before (perhaps on an alt?)

but still encourages early role discussion felt counterintuitive to me. If elephant is an experienced player they should be ignoring that thread of convo completely until absolutely necessary.

and i guess a follow-up to the above question: have u played many games recently?
in the current meta i don't think that speculating on things the mod puts in the op is usually considered rolefishing? kinda like if it's in the op it's fair game

[skitter30]

My top of the head thoughts on it: JKs are town. At some point they can claim and thereby conftown themselves, as a fake claim would presumably be CC'd. PLUS, they can protect each other that night. If they can avoid being NK'd or run up and forced to claim, they should probably claim a day before potential lylo.

i kinda feel like the op meant for the jk's to be alignment neutral, but the below kinda slipped/insinuated by mistake taht they're town-aligned (or, at the very least, that the jk's being alive is helpful to town which would imply that they're probably not scum). i'm not sure if we were supposed ot have that info tho

Since I'm sure at least one of you skimmed through the rules: There are two Jailkeepers. I suggest that the Town try and keep them alive.

[skitter30]

I think I can read you fairly well when I’m not lazy about it
e.g. I townread your tone *always* but am improving over time at my ability to search for your motivations

got it.
and i'm guessing that you're trying to see if u can rattle an ai response out of me rn?

[skitter30]

hello everyone! nice to see those of you i know.
VOTE: irrelephant

Man what a boring vote
Not only is it on obvtown but you’re super missing out on a quality wagon over here!!
Stop having FOMO and start joining the best RVS wagon!

but i like voting obvtown!
besides, i don't vote skitter day one. she deserves bettern or something. :>

[skitter30]

VOTE: vote

hi, which of u posted these?

[skitter30]

ok pretty confident on town!irrel i think
and that is ... an interesting approach to trying to read me that i don't think anyone has ever tried before and i'm pretty interested in seeing how you'll apply it.

and yeah idk if meme wagons form on me? heck even actual wagons don't form on me that often really at this point

[skitter30]

Skitter will you pocket me again, or do you only do that as scum? :p

only as scum

really tho i do think that you've been kinda townie so far. idk what ur scumgame looks like but you have a sufficiently nuanced and town-oriented thought process that i feel is unlikely to come from scum

[skitter30]

getting gutscum pings on rcenigma

[skitter30]

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

what do u mean by 'dull'?

[skitter30]

Also, skitter's response to the wagon is very scummy.

not sure scum!tris says this really?

[skitter30]

i like them too. it's cute.

Shiidaji: i liked insomnia's entrance and agreed with what he said about both elephant and Percy, two players i'm townreading so far. and he feels good, feels organic.
you feel marginally less good and less organic with the focus you've chosen right now, and i have to echo insomnia's point of you appearing to make judgements based on what you think someone's playstyle should be rather than what it actually is. you can contrast that with what i feel from insomnia with a genuine desire to understand.

it's great to see you as well! i hope we can have a fun game together again. <3

This is an improvement.

UNVOTE:

i dont' like this trajectory on chara much at all really

[skitter30]

ok pretty confident on town!irrel i think
and that is ... an interesting approach to trying to read me that i don't think anyone has ever tried before and i'm pretty interested in seeing how you'll apply it.

and yeah idk if meme wagons form on me? heck even actual wagons don't form on me that often really at this point

Yeah it’s kinda contingent on your partners being worse at being scum than you > therefore making them play around you before you show up is a good idea in the long run
But maybe your partners are good at scum too or maybe you’re town or maybe this wasn’t that effective; I think only time will tell it was just an idea I had on page 1

this is an intriguing approach.
i think it only works in some select circumstances (ie here if i'm scum + have scum partners who aren't quite sure what to do if i'm getting wagoned) but it's certainly an interesting experiment

[skitter30]

skitter! i want to know how you feel about me. it's not a fair question, seeing as i'm giving you a pass because i believe your town and scum games are rather similar on day one, but i'm curious anyway.

well in a generic sense i like playing with you

wrt ur alignment in this game: idk yet

we talked about it in anuket topaz but i need more content from u and/or to engage with u more; i feel like u have a fairly large scumrange and it takes a while for me to gague when/if you've left it

i don't think you've said much ai yet really

[skitter30]

I’m losing interest in lynching Chara/Persivul/Smile today
I’m gaining interest in lynching Shiidaji/Clearly/Fuscezu
VOTE: Shiidaji

why smile? i don't feel like they've said much ai really

i kidna want to vote ceejay actually

[skitter30]

VOTE: ceejay

yay caught up

[skitter30]

which of u is posting rn?

[skitter30]

Also, skitter's response to the wagon is very scummy.

not sure scum!tris says this really?

Why not?

VOTE: ceejay

yay caught up

rather like this vote. I felt that I was premature for thinking ceejay was kind of wagonhunting, but this helps.

This feels like a town thought process.

-----------------------------

Goodnight all!

idk
doesn't feel like something scum!you would have said in the 911 emergency game

[skitter30]

I knew that.

i mean ... if you thought tris was being serious what did you think about the quality of the read (that she thought my silence was scummy and MKM's was townie) ... like did that make sense to u at the time? did it affect how you read tris?

[skitter30]

Tbh I'm a bit intimidated by the amount of clearly experienced players in a bigger game than I'm used to, not to mention it's a semi-closed setup. Feels like a lot of the experienced ones are debating mafia theory rather than anything about this game too so I'm kinda just hoping for a brainwave rn.

don't feel intimidated, other people here just played a few more games than you, is all in a few games from now *you'll* be the experienced player

wrt the latter sentence - i feel like a lot of the discussion has been about this game too? not sure that mafia theory has really been dominating this game so far. where do u see that happening?

[skitter30]

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

what do u mean by 'dull'?

Their early posts were not interesting.

Which struck me as blending in for some reason.

....
i'm not sure i agree with u that chara's early posts were not interesting

i'm also not sure that that having 'not interesting' posts is indicative of trying to blend in?

[skitter30]

i like them too. it's cute.

Shiidaji: i liked insomnia's entrance and agreed with what he said about both elephant and Percy, two players i'm townreading so far. and he feels good, feels organic.
you feel marginally less good and less organic with the focus you've chosen right now, and i have to echo insomnia's point of you appearing to make judgements based on what you think someone's playstyle should be rather than what it actually is. you can contrast that with what i feel from insomnia with a genuine desire to understand.

it's great to see you as well! i hope we can have a fun game together again. <3

This is an improvement.

UNVOTE:

i dont' like this trajectory on chara much at all really

I don't like that you don't like this.

Can you elaborate?

I'm terrible at physics.

you voted them for having 'dull' posts.
chara's posts became better in 96 (i presume u mean have more content? more original takes?), so you unvoted

i kinda felt like your chara vote was at least semi-serious but when you pushed there and they posted content you just ... dropped the vote without engaging anywhere else. i feel like town, who finds that their semi-serious vote (which presumably was used to try to pressure and/or push someone, like you did with chara here, by voting them for having 'dull' posts) becomes invalidated or negated for whatever reason, would then try to find some other place to engage or push (not necessarily by voting again but by at least pushing/engaging elsewhere) but you didn't

your engagement just kinda fizzled out there when you dropped the chara vote and it felt kinda .... flat. or like lacking the inquisitive mindset that prompts town to sort people

idk i hope that makes sense

what don't you like about the fact that i didn't like this

[skitter30]

i'm pretty sure the rules say that v/la should be pm'd and not posted in thread; it kinda makes sense for this to follow your post pointing out that this game has plurality lynching - he probably went back to read the rule post and then saw the thing about v/la so mentioned it

That's either an uncannily keen observation...or you read ahead and are only pretending to be doing a post by post catch-up.

i'm good at noticing/putting together details like this

[skitter30]

i kinda feel like the op meant for the jk's to be alignment neutral, but the below kinda slipped/insinuated by mistake taht they're town-aligned (or, at the very least, that the jk's being alive is helpful to town which would imply that they're probably not scum). i'm not sure if we were supposed ot have that info tho

I don't get this. I don't see how mod accidentally typed the sentence, or why you would even speculate about that.

idk

Since I'm sure at least one of you skimmed through the rules: There are two Jailkeepers. I suggest that the Town try and keep them alive.

the tone of this kinda read to me: this is important info and i don't want you to miss it (and thus not be careful about trying to keep them alive, which would be bad for town) which is why i'm highlighting it so pay attention!!!!!!

[skitter30]

I am actually quite interested in the mechanics of this game, though.

What's the usual meta for Mini Theme games that have a closed setup?

i'd love to answer but i don't understand the question, sorry

[skitter30]

wow I don't find anything else except for this 1v1 between insomnia and percy recently

in which case,

(btw the way insomnia didn't immediately retaliate and instead voted in a second post loses magical girl points for him. I refer to 213 and 214)

- march

i kinda think insomnia is town actually
why is he less townie for voting in the second post?

[skitter30]

- I saw the speculation on the alignment of the double JK earlier but I've never suspected that they could be any alignment other than town. If mod wanted roleblocking scum, wouldn't they just make them Mafia RB? Unless mod wanted to purposely misread town by making one scum JK?
- If mafia is the only groupscum faction and there's additional scum, does that mean that scum is in a third-party? Are they the only scum of that hypothetical third-party?
- Third-party factions indicate roles like SK or Survivor iirc? I haven't ever played in any games with those roles, what's the meta?

a) scum jk aren't particularly uncommon and fit a bit of a different setup niche scum rb; being a jk is not inherently town indicative

b) groupscum with the possibility of more scum to be indicates that this game isn't multiball and that any other scum outside the groupscum would be by themselves (ie not part of another scum group)

c) sk is probably the most common (scum unaligned with groupscum who can kill); i've seen survivor too (some varient of needing to survive till endgame); other types of 3p exist but i'm not recalling any offhand

actually as i write this i'm remembering krazy's starcraft mafia 1 which had 2 3p's, each of which were unaligned with each other and groupscum. one was a witch (can control another player and force them to take their action on someone else) and the other was arson (which iirc think is a specific type of sk varient in that they can douse people at night and then choose a night for everyone they doused to die, or somethign along those lines).

[skitter30]

wow I don't find anything else except for this 1v1 between insomnia and percy recently

in which case,

(btw the way insomnia didn't immediately retaliate and instead voted in a second post loses magical girl points for him. I refer to 213 and 214)

- march

i kinda think insomnia is town actually
why is he less townie for voting in the second post?

It feels like an afterthought
like "oh yeah I'd normally scumread the guy in a similar situation"

- March

i can kinda see the afterthought bit but like i've definitely seen town do something similar (ie not vote immediately, but shortly thereafter); i've done that; sometimes it just doesn't occur to me to vote till a little later

insomnia's had a few posts that i thought were kinda townie;

i liked 41 (and the followups in his next couple fo posts); i felt like it indicated that even thought it was rvs he was already trying to sort out people's motivations, which i think is townie.

and reskimming his iso that's apparently the main thing that i liked from him thus far
not a strong read but i did like how he was approaching the game in rvs

[skitter30]

I think it's comparable to how I was with my vote on ofrzh in RVS. I don't really see what you're talking about.

fair enough; i didn't remember your rvs vote there
i also don't know if scum!you argues with me for giving you a townread so

==

awkward charisma, interesting contributions. in four words.

bleh i'm starting to become a bit paranoid of you pocketing me via townreading me again
but i remember anuket so like town!you can/does townread me early, so like i ~know~ that i shouldn't be paranoid but i still kinda feel it so like idk how i feel about this overall or if this is even sometihng i should be paying attention to

though i'm not sure of the scum motivation of ceejay finding a problem with me, then unvoting once the problem had been resolved. the post he quoted was the first one that really held any thought process from me.

well it's not inherently that he unvoted once the problem had been resolved, more that he kinda stopped engaging with the thread then and like didn't follow any other threads once he unvoted; it felt like he didn't really have much drive/desire to start sorting oter people once his problem with you was resolved if that makes sense

==

i'm not sure i actually still like my ceejay vote
going to do this instead i think
VOTE: rcenigma

==

why did the game stall? scum apparently feel comfy

Let's go.... here VOTE: chara

why chara?

==

skitter you should come vote shiidaji

pedit: I reminded myself of why I scumread shiidaji and it's stronger than my (just now remembering that it's finals week) gamestate read

i have like exactly zero thoughts on shiidaji tbh

==

Skitter is low-key pocketing me again, I don't know how to feel about it given our past game.

not really pocketing so much as stating a townread
kinda doubt scum!me would treat your slot in the exact same way knowing htat you'd most likely call me out on it

==

insomnia prob isn't scum with smile

Also, I forgot that this is a god damn hydra because I've never played with one and then I figured why people want them vetoed from their games. It's so hard to keep track of everyone's read and it's weird to see one account having different scum reads and town reads, so that's totally on me

Willing to bet this isn't ever SvS

reading a bit farther: for this exact reason ^^^^ that doesn't come from svs

==

ngl i'm kinda fascinated by how people try to read me, and i kinda like reading discussions about it

==

clearly do you have any reads you'd care to share?

==

This is just narration.

? i didn't read that as narration

kinda gut-town on fuscezu

[skitter30]

....
i'm voting rce; i said earlier he was pinging me as scum
i said pretty clearly that i'm townreading insomnia; i kinda believe his meta tbh
i don't have a read on clarity rn; that's why i asked her if she had any reads she'd like to share

ngl those questions kinda feel like busywork; like four posts above this one i talked about insomnia and voted rce?

[skitter30]

kinda weirded out by his reaction to irrel asking him to vote me
tone feels weird. (i know that 'feels weird' is not particularly helpful but i don't know why it does rn exactly)
find it kinda odd that i said that i found him gut-scummy earlier but he didn't follow up or try to engage me there at all

[skitter30]

This isn't going to make much sense but I feel like we have similar thought process' in most cases. So sure you reading me scum was weird but it may be from a small sample size. I figured if you're town you would recognize me as town down the line.

Plus confronting you directly wouldn't give me the kind of read on you that I'm looking for. This doesn't seem like a pressure vote but I also don't consider myself as lhf so I still don't know what the play here is.

it's kinda pressure i suppose; or at least a way to start a dialogue so that i can try to sort out if i'm right or wrong here
i was kinda expecting some sort of response to me saying taht i was scumreading you, even if it was just 'why' or something

i guess one of the things that feel a little off is that you feel kinda passive? more than i'd expect at least?

[skitter30]

How about shiidaji? Made a couple decent posts but then went silent. I've been noticing lately scum who can do a decent job of faking scum hunting, but only in small doses. I think that's what we're seeing here.

it looks like they siteflaked tbh

[skitter30]

I was about to try to make a PoE but I have to go into a meeting

Hot take: fuscezu is scum
idk if that take is hot it's just something I'm feeling in this moment

Kinda seeing this too actually

i'm not seeing this really; what are you seeing here?

[skitter30]

I've given enough of a grace period for prods. They start now; Shiidaji has been prodded.

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Shiidaji (4):

Chara, tris, Irrelephant11, Persivul

Fuscezu (3):

Smile, Miss Kobayashi Maru, ceejayvinoya

Irrelephant11 (2):

Shiidaji, RCEnigma

Miss Kobayashi Maru (1):

ClearlyClarity

insomnia (1):

insomnia

RCEnigma (1):

skitter30

Not Voting (1):

Fuscezu

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

is insomnia voting himself?

[skitter30]

LHF wagons are really bad for vca

do u consider urself lhf?

i don't really like this post actually

[skitter30]

1. yeh i don't feel good about really requiring a compelling reason to vote somebody like 3 pages in. it's rvs who gives a shit

sorry, i'm not really sure what this is a response/follow-up to

i'm having pretty hard time keeping your hydra heads separate and it's kinda making it hard to read you guys :/

[skitter30]

LHF wagons are really bad for vca

do u consider urself lhf?

i don't really like this post actually

Uhh yes.

Thats why i made the comment. Are you saying this slots performance in this game is otherwise?

i guess i meant it also in like a holistic sense; not just this game; not sure i'd call you lhf in general?

anyways that post feels like you're trying to stave off the wagon that's building on you.

i'm still mulling over whether or not it's scummy; i'm not sure that scum says this post in conjunction with the next one tho (the one pointing out that scum could defend lhf just as easily as vote them) - if you're scum trying to stave off the wagon you'd kinda want to incentivize people defending you, i'd imagine, not point out that it's a good place for scum to sit

[skitter30]

also if you're scum kinda makes the gamestate awkward by making it hard for partners to defend you

[skitter30]

low hanging fruit

[skitter30]

ok. why are you doing that?

[skitter30]

? y does that make you like irrel?

[skitter30]

i actually think irrel is pretty townie but i don't think that was really ai for him

[skitter30]

do either of u have a read on chara?

[skitter30]

march i kinda think that you lot might be scum

[skitter30]

Feeling sick. Glad my “hot take” got a conversation moving
Kinda don’t townread the two votes that followed my read, but I also doubt they’re ever s/s
Hopefully I’ll be healthy and clear headed tomorrow

Skitter I’ve only mindmelded with you like 1.5 times this game. Are you scum

nope

hope you feel better!

idk is there anything i said/did that you want to talk about? do u usually mindmeld with town!me? i don't remember.

[skitter30]

tomorrow irl or tomorrow like the next phase of the game?

[skitter30]

sounds good

[skitter30]

... i actually have no memory of writing that.
(i'm kinda expunging the particulars of that game from my memory)

to clarify, is the bit you highlighted part of what you liked about 335?

[skitter30]

not sure scum!tris says this really?

I noticed it last night and its been an allgame thing it seems.

Why do you townhunt using anti-scum tells? idgi it seems kind of wifomy.

a pretty big part of how i scumhunt is to try to determine whether someone is likely to do something as scum or not - if it rarely comes from scum!them, then they're probably town

idk why i read people this way, i just kinda do

[skitter30]

RCEnigma - very telling that their biggest post is a setup post about shiinji

can i interest you in voting rce with me?

[skitter30]

i feel pretty good about town!fuscozu (or whatever the name is)

[skitter30]

Fair. I'm kind of out of sync with this game in particular. Couldn't tell you why and I hope it switches around day 2. At least I'll make an effort to improve my input.

I don't necessarily have a read on you either way and a vote on me based on gut doesn't sway me either way, but I'd probably feel that way as either alignment.

The best way to get content out of me would probably be to force it with a legitimate wagon, preferrably before EOD so I don't get flashlynched without giving my thoughts.

I'm following along with the game so I know what's going on but don't have any strong feelings, I have reason to believe ceejay may be town, I still think CC is town and that's about it.

If the hill I die on is my Shiidaji read directly following rvs then I find it incredibly weak and a probable point for scum to sow doubt. No one's really asked but no I don't really have Shiidaji as town anymore following his absence. Scumreading him on an activity rep out feels dumb though.

Oh insomnia is probably town as well, he would be my Fringe read however.

yeah so this is kinda it - you feel just very ... underwhelming. like the content you're posting just, well, is.

[skitter30]

whoops, didn't finish the post.

@ rce:

and i know that town!you is fully capable of good!posting, and nothing youv'e posted thus far really feels that way to me rn

and yeah i'm starting to see if i can get a wagon going; i'm hoping doing so will provide some interesting insight into the gamestate, which feels kinda ~stagnant~, and if you think that'll make you do ai things, even better

do u think scum is pushing u for your shiidaji read? if so, who in particular do u think is doing this?

[skitter30]

Quick caveat about CJ: I've seen him in the LHF seat before I think. I'd suggest we double check his meta on this before lynching

i was wondering if you'd played with him before?
some of the things you highlighted i'm not sure are ai in particular for him
i still think his chara unvote was one of his worst posts

[skitter30]

Smile: weak townread, if they're scum i think they're doing a good job with having multiple heads show little stress.

? hasn't it mostly been march posting?

[skitter30]

examples being the first half of 407, which is probably true but did make me worried that she actually did use similar wording to a towngame on purpose.
and then, the referencing of her paranoia of me in 335 felt again like a purposeful explanation of her thoughts meant to be townread rather than advance the game.

she also isn't really pursuing a scumread yet.

a) tris linked a scumgame there, and in the scumgame i ~absolutely~ tried to mimic how i would have written it as town. when i clicked the link i was actually kinda surprised at how similar it was to what i wrote here lol
(i don't have such a great memory of what i did that game)

b) wasn't writing that to try to be townread, was trying to explain what i was thinking wrt to you and why i wasn't sure it even mattered

c) this is one of those games where i don't have super many super strong scumreads

[skitter30]

not sure I see enough for this read att, though.

idk
like i said at the time - it was gut; i do sometimes have gut reads on small amounts of content

Ah yes I'm remembering now, the previous quote, this quote, and the next on are where I was really like "I don't see what you mean". Anti-mindmeld, because I don't see why scum!anyone wouldn't make this sort of joke post. 0 mindmelds so far.

it just didn't feel like something i thought scum!tris would say. (not scum in general, scum!tris in particular)

she also pointed out i was and that i don't have a good impression of what her scumgame looks like, so this doesn't really matter anyways

I've said before and will say again I think it's a fine trajectory.

well, again, it wasn't the unovte itself that i had trouble with, more with the fact that once he unvoted he just dropped engaging with the thread; it felt like he used the read to engage with the thread but once he felt the read wasn't valid anymore he couldn't justify voting there anymore but didn't know where to go next

So here's the weirdest thing I see in skitter's ISO: she questions my townread on Smile, who so far she has only gut-townread in agreement with me. feels like skitter "forgot" her townread when she realized it could actually take a mislynch off the table.
otoh maybe she forgot her townread for real.

i think i had forgotten the gut townread on smile

This post feels entirely unnecessary, which Idk what to do with.

she said it was her first time playing in the mini queue iirc and i try to be welcoming and explain things if i can, but i didn't understand the question

@skitter why did you move from CJ to RCE in 355? Felt like your case on CJ was only getting stronger at that point.
Also why gut-town on Fuscezu?

i felt like cj's response was passably decent and i kinda wanted to pressure rce. i could probably vote there again

idk. he just doesn't feel like scum rn. this isn't particularly helpful but i doin't have words to articulate this rn

i think i answered everything but if i missed something lmk

[skitter30]

skitter are you here

I'm gonna try to get some work done here and you can talk about anything you want to me in the mean time idk

- March

i'm kinda around

[skitter30]

I feel like scum would pause before going like "you should force content out of me with a legit wagon" like RCE does here

felt a bit lamist to me

[skitter30]

ceejayvinoya

[line]Chara
ClearlyClarity
Fuscezu[/line]

insomnia

[line]Irrelephant11[/line]
Miss Kobayashi Maru
Persivul
RCEnigma
Shiidaji

skitter30

[line]Smile[/line]

tris

never touching strikethrough names d1
should probably lynch within bolded

underlined is shit thrown at the wall scum for post game ego

- March

[skitter30]

@rce why are you voting irrel again?

@tris can i interest you in joining the rce wagon?

[skitter30]

For some reason it seems like no one's really expressed a read on me. Does anyone want to give it a shot?

somewhere ~nullscum

[skitter30]

For some reason it seems like no one's really expressed a read on me. Does anyone want to give it a shot?

somewhere ~nullscum

actually closer to a scumlean

[skitter30]

I dont really get why people dont like irrel's posting tbh

[skitter30]

I also don't know who is voting me besides irrel/Tris/Skitter. On the other hand slots have been posturing without voting afaik so scum has already designated me as mislynchable.

I don't think Scum!Skitter pushes me as scum here knowing I have the potential to speed my slot as town but the accountability for my flip would probably be handed to her regardless.

Uhhhhh this is a really weird post given that you basically just asked me to wagon you ....

[skitter30]

I also don't know who is voting me besides irrel/Tris/Skitter. On the other hand slots have been posturing without voting afaik so scum has already designated me as mislynchable.

I don't think Scum!Skitter pushes me as scum here knowing I have the potential to speed my slot as town but the accountability for my flip would probably be handed to her regardless.

Uhhhhh this is a really weird post given that you basically just asked me to wagon you ....

You were already voting me. I don't know your history with irrel or persivul but I would assume those are the only other slot you would stay away from as scum.

i don't really get how what you said here follows from what i said but ok

i think scum!me might try to pick a fight with persi, probably wouldn't with chara; i probably don't win that i think

also we established that i'm pushing you to try to get you to spew as town if you are so are you saying that you think scum!me just doesn't do this because i wouldn't want you to spew yourself as town?

[skitter30]

i could vote tris too btw i think

[skitter30]

beauty, why do you like rce?

[skitter30]

oh i think i know which head u are, cool; that'll prob help me read you

i kinda like my rce vote but i'm considering switching to tris i think

[skitter30]

heya boon, brown eyes

boon, can you take a look at rce's iso for me and tell me what you think?

[skitter30]

irrel, remind me, do you have a read on tris?

[skitter30]

irre is kinda scummy.
flavorslot is enh - not happy he placed into a slot that needs content
idk how i feel about rc
tris is townish

I think ur town but i dont really like ur reads

[skitter30]

Mm those aren't bad reasons, actually.

Irrelephant — you were one of the four people who commented on my post, and subsequently, one of the people I'm going to have on my radar. I'm far more defensive on this than I should be but when one-third of the game is scumreading me for my intro post I have to wonder what exactly is up with it that makes it so off. Please elaborate.

why does this make you think there's scum in the group of players who didn't like your intro post?

i might have missed you already talking about this, but that sort of post is (historically) one that could come from scum and could be poked at at the beginning of the game. and by that i mean commenting on the speed of the game like that.
the fact that it's this many players should tell you it's NAI, unless you think scum as a whole was going after it.

I’m perfectly willing to overlook one or two people going “eh I don’t teally like this entrance” after the fact, but when four people felt the need to chime in on one post it gives off a major LAMIST vibe (“yeah I totally scumread that post too, fellow townies!”) Especially when it’s hundreds of posts later when some people have completely forgotten about it.

Perhaps I should revise to say that I specifically read the latest few players who jumped on the “clarity’s intro is scummy” wagon.

Wasnt fuscosco's post hundreds of posts later because he was ... reading the thread thru for the first time there?

Like that's a very different context than how you're presenting it here?

[skitter30]

Yes, to the last part specifically. I can ride on an early townspew, that might be outside of the meta regarding the games we've played together though.

It is, yeah. Do u think u should have townspewed with the wagon on you? Because i'm not really seeing that happen yet

[skitter30]

Cj prob isnt scum with clarity imo

[skitter30]

Talk to me about your chara read?

[skitter30]

I think their play so far is kinda like coalition, kinda like forkbomb which I was following along with
I think their reads on you, me, and fuscosco make sense for town!them
The only reason I can think of to scumread them is their high number of townreads in a game where I don’t know that someone uninformed should have that many townreads, but I somewhat believe Chara is playing in the “kill paranoia, hold to townreads where they’re deserved” way they profess to be using.

Oh I also liked their recent moment re:CJ read

i guess i just don't feel like most of what they've done is ai, or out of their scumrange

wrt smile and tris:
tris - her play reminds me * a lot* of the scumgame we finished last week. also i don't really get the point of a lot of her posts and they feel kinda like busywork to me. i actually don't like how she brought up the fact that nobody mentioned her - when other people brought up reads for the most part it didn't really seem to go anywhere on her end; that's kinda why i feel like her posts are there to look like she's engaged and posting

smile - having a harder time articulating why but their early game was bothering me - it felt kinda disjointed and going-through-the-motions-y. i liked beatuty's contributions a bit more than march's but i don't have a super strong read here either way; somewhere ~nullscum.

[skitter30]

Actually now I think about it I don't recall much about a lot of players

um

Skitter
Does RCE ping you somehow
Do you have thoughts on insomnia's spew about his own meta and all that
Reads on Clarity

- March

oh right i really hated this post because it felt to me like they weren't reading and were asking questions just to ask them given that i talked about most of these things like five posts above this one

[skitter30]

I just went back to catch up and saw you asking me if Smile is my strongest scum read, yes.

As for reading RCE I’ve already addressed it, I’ll never be able to read him, I only read him when he gets to like at L-1 and starts raging because of it, his tone can give him away while on the chopping block.

Having stronger players like Skitter and whoever’s left to determine his alignment if they have Meta with him is better as it generates info, if they misrep his meta then they have high scum equity, so I’ll just do that.

i don't have a super strong meta sense of rce; i actually think flavor is *really* good at reading him so i'd like his opinion there

[skitter30]

Well, me, Skitter and tris were in a game where the both of them were scum and I was town, so Skitter should have some insight on tris

i think this game looks really similar to that one

[skitter30]

Mm those aren't bad reasons, actually.

Irrelephant — you were one of the four people who commented on my post, and subsequently, one of the people I'm going to have on my radar. I'm far more defensive on this than I should be but when one-third of the game is scumreading me for my intro post I have to wonder what exactly is up with it that makes it so off. Please elaborate.

why does this make you think there's scum in the group of players who didn't like your intro post?

i might have missed you already talking about this, but that sort of post is (historically) one that could come from scum and could be poked at at the beginning of the game. and by that i mean commenting on the speed of the game like that.
the fact that it's this many players should tell you it's NAI, unless you think scum as a whole was going after it.

I’m perfectly willing to overlook one or two people going “eh I don’t teally like this entrance” after the fact, but when four people felt the need to chime in on one post it gives off a major LAMIST vibe (“yeah I totally scumread that post too, fellow townies!”) Especially when it’s hundreds of posts later when some people have completely forgotten about it.

Perhaps I should revise to say that I specifically read the latest few players who jumped on the “clarity’s intro is scummy” wagon.

Wasnt fuscosco's post hundreds of posts later because he was ... reading the thread thru for the first time there?

Like that's a very different context than how you're presenting it here?

@clearly

also *do* tell about your scumread on me

[skitter30]

Pretty sure this game is actually bastard, by the way. Just a heads up to not be surprised later.

Rule 40 specifically says it isn't, so you threw that out there because...?

I mean, I know it said that, but there’s been plenty of mods who say that, and then it accidentally is.

I can prove it later in the game,

and I will literally allow everyone to lynch me because of it later in the game.

I don’t think it’s like way out there bastard. Or potentially even bastard, but definitely closer to bastard than to normal, if that makes sense.

No moderator lies no ridiculous alignment changing roles, but it’ll definitely annoy some people post game. If that makes sense.

idk if i believe this claim cuz it's like, well, boon, but idk if scum (or anti-town or whatever) says this either

[skitter30]

Flavor as fun as it is to read your crazy claims as a spectator I’m much more interested in you providing reads rn please and thank you
I recognize that if you’re trueclaiming then your trueclaiming but your reputation precedes you to the point where I can’t really take anything relating to setup or role stuff at face value from you so please give me some reads that will help me sort you

townposting ^^^^

[skitter30]

Well, me, Skitter and tris were in a game where the both of them were scum and I was town, so Skitter should have some insight on tris

i think this game looks really similar to that one

she's also very willing to bus, i forgot to say

[skitter30]

tris - her play reminds me * a lot* of the scumgame we finished last week.

In what ways?

the questioning-but-not-really-engaging thing that you're doing, like right here
most of your questions don't seem to lead anywhere

[skitter30]

that's fair
i actually don't have a super good memory for what your towngame looks like but i'll go back and check

[skitter30]

i think he's really townie

[skitter30]

Chara’s also probably scum.

Thoughts, Chara?

i'd tunnel you hard if you kept this read throughout the game, are my thoughts. i think my no-mislynch pattern can beat you.
i was worried, but since you've already claimed 3p, i don't need to worry about you being town anymore. now it's down to you actually being scum, vs. you being a 3p that may or may not help us. the eventuality of 1v1ing town Flavor is off the table. i don't think i'm that good at reading you, and the experience that sticks in my head is that scumgame where i figured out you were scum just in time to be nightkilled and for us to lose. the one with the inno mislynch.

but i am still pretty wary of scum you so i'll see where your content goes!

im kinda just assuming that eventually he's going to get lynched at some point since he basically invited us to do so so i'm not going to overthink it rn because he's put himself in a position where it has to get resolved before endgame (there's no jesters and i can't really think of another role where lynching someone would be problematic/end the game)

[skitter30]

tris - her play reminds me * a lot* of the scumgame we finished last week.

In what ways?

the questioning-but-not-really-engaging thing that you're doing, like right here
most of your questions don't seem to lead anywhere

this was my exact impression of tris from Anuket, and i'm not seeing a real difference. she was also pushed there for that, and i remember scumreading her for it.
are there any differences between the two?

i don't know; i have to go back and check
of the scumgame and anuket i remember the scumgame better (i guess cuz it was more recent) so that's what i'm comparing against. i don't remember how the the towngame compares to the scumgame but i'll take a look at her iso in anuket again when i have a chance

[skitter30]

that's a no then?

I’ve never mislynched RCEnigma, so I guess I am.

can you take a look at his iso and tell me what you think?

[skitter30]

(there's no jesters and i can't really think of another role where lynching someone would be problematic/end the game)

eh i guess a vengeful varient might be difficult here, i'll have to think about this

[skitter30]

Hey rce, whats the difference between ur town and scum game?

[skitter30]

And which do you think you're doing here?

[skitter30]

Posting as much as FL.

i think you're kinda doing the not-posting thing tbh

[skitter30]

I'm at an impasse with you (irrel) since I only really see you with slots like mkm/CC/ceejay. Some kind of composition you would feel the need to over perform with.

i do agree that scum!him would try to over-perform in that kind of scumteam, but i do think his behavior this game is still indicative for town!him

[skitter30]

It feels weird to throw Skitter in my townreads, I'm not sure how deeply I believe that. Her pushing me makes me want to say town but I don't have any solid reasoning outside of that.

Well,

this

is actually probably the

biggest

reason why I think you might be town
Scum doesn't think they can mislynch skitter easily
Town is paranoid of skitter, though (been experiencing it on and off all game)
so unless you're partnered with her this comes across pretty towny to me

ok. i actually need to mull this point over a bit
scum tend to townread me pretty strongly; they don't try to push me and i'm basically always pretty wary of people who unreservedly townread me w/o the read wavering much because i find that tends to come from scum

i actually don't know offhand which alignment is more likely to be paranoid; i need to think about it a bit

[skitter30]

Actually now I think about it I don't recall much about a lot of players

um

Skitter
Does RCE ping you somehow
Do you have thoughts on insomnia's spew about his own meta and all that
Reads on Clarity

- March

oh right i really hated this post because it felt to me like they weren't reading and were asking questions just to ask them given that i talked about most of these things like five posts above this one

Absolutely correct

That ain't how to read me though. I know it's unfair for people that don't know who I am but yeah that's most people. That's just me having enough wim to try to look like im being productive in order to not drag my team back but not enough wim (or time) to actually put in more effort than simply using intuition. I was hoping to get carried by my hydra uwu

anyway um
i'm gonna actually read things and dump everything into the PT or something today. v/la til Tuesday

- March

telling me not to read you this way doesn't mean much to me since i don't know who you are and i don't know how to read you, sorry
i can understand not having enough wim to read but it ... felt kinda bad since i had literally just talked about those things
i honestly prob would have felt better about it if you had said you hadn't like read any of my posts at the time

you prefaced the post with something like 'i don't remember a lot about many players' but i was literally there, on that page, talking about the things you asked me about

i'm not sure this is ai or anything but i really didn't like it

[skitter30]

your insomnia push is quite awful tho; he's town i'm pretty sure

[skitter30]

VOTE: tris

[skitter30]

nuanced thoughts; not being afraid to give uncontroversial opinions; don't feel like his play thus far comes from someone who utterly hates their alignment (like he says he hates playing scum); i largely undertand his trajectory

[skitter30]

Thought you said you were town siding, help a guy out.

I just basically also win with town, so yeah, I’m town siding, just don’t screw me over, and I won’t screw you guys over, we end together.

i'm kinda conflicted on this because:

a) in a general sense idk if scum makes up this sort of claim upon their entrance to the game (and i'm assuming that town doesn't do this), but you're, like, you so this isn't really a good reason to give you towncred because i *can* see scum!you pulling something like this

b) if you are 3p idk what your wincon and idk if 'not screwing you over' will lead to *everyone else* getting screwed over

[skitter30]

Thought you said you were town siding, help a guy out.

I just basically also win with town, so yeah, I’m town siding, just don’t screw me over, and I won’t screw you guys over, we end together.

And why would we bargain with someone that has a “Best 3p player” banner under their name? You have to prove your loyalty, by lynching a scum.

I’ll lynch a scum.
I don’t have to prove anything, I said that I can be lynched, and I can achieve my wincon right after that for a dual victory.

ok who's scum then?

also, again, what do you think about rce?

[skitter30]

So I'm not incentivized to defend FL here but it's likely the worst Lynch for day 1 at least. I think persi voting there is town however, I'd prefer targeting scumreads over a slot that may not be a threat to town in the first place.

VOTE: Tris

you've convinced me that you're town but not really that Tris is scum but I'll sheep it.

uhhhhhh
is this talking to me?

this is ... not a good vote

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

Flavor Leaf please explain your win condition
I prefer a Smile lynch to a tris lynch and also am losing my townread on skitter for changing the lynch direction after smile’s crap scumcase on insomnia

it was a bad case
idk who march is and idk if it's a *scummy* case tho

[skitter30]

i don't know; i have to go back and check
of the scumgame and anuket i remember the scumgame better (i guess cuz it was more recent) so that's what i'm comparing against. i don't remember how the the towngame compares to the scumgame but i'll take a look at her iso in anuket again when i have a chance

did you get a chance to look?

when i pointed out that her game here looks similar to Anuket i was expecting some sort of explanation as to why it also looking similar to her scumgame was AI and what the difference was.
Percy's reasons i think are fine and if i hadn't played with tris before i might also think that, but i haven't really seen any reasons that aren't null to me and considering your experience with her i expected something more.

i skimmed about half her iso in anuket again, yeah
she makes more declarative statements in anuket than in her scumgame imo (ie 'i think x is scum' or 'i think these two people are town', even without a vote, as opposed to asking questions). she's also a little more pushy there in following up on questions, which makes me feel like in anuket she actually cared about the answers

[skitter30]

I just basically also win with town, so yeah, I’m town siding, just don’t screw me over, and I won’t screw you guys over, we end together.

I'm agreeing with insomnia here. If you're with town, then fully disclose your role. Otherwise, 3p is anti-town, and you're the default lynch since no one is blatant scum so far.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

This is scum.

Can’t do it now, or I’ll lose.

I’ve already stated that I can be lynched and still win later in the game, so this is inherently scum indicative of Persivul.

i don't get why this is scum indicative of him

[skitter30]

I can’t say my fucking win con.

can't (ie the mod said you can't say your wincon), or won't?

[skitter30]

Persi is already universally townread. Don't push it like he's a slot that needs saving.

this is the first post from you that i actually liked

[skitter30]

This is a surprisingly slow weekend, considering that you only have 2½ days left before a plurality lynch.

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Smile (4):

insomnia, Irrelephant11, tris, Chara

Fuscezu (2):

Brown Eyes, ClearlyClarity

tris (1):

RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1):

Fuscezu

Irrelephant11 (1):

Flavor Leaf

Flavor Leaf (1):

Persivul

insomnia (1):

Smile

Not Voting (2):

ceejayvinoya, skitter30

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

a) i only townread like half of the smile wagon. i don't really have a read on smile; at least in part because the anon-hydra is kinda making it hard for me to read them

b) i don't like the fusezu wagon; i think he's town and i don't have reads on eithe rof the people voting him. i also feel like clearly has kinda disppeared off the planet? there are some circumstances where this isn't ai (ie this can be newb!town intimidated by the first game out of the newbie queue) but the fact that she's knowingly repeatedly playing that card and is using it to avoid giving content makes me kinda suspicious and i'm not liking it that much. i also think that her fixation (hundreds of posts later) of how people read her entrance was kinda scummy, as was the context in which she framed fucezu's questioning her entrance, as was the fact that she ignored me at least once when i pointed out that her push on fucezu for it was scummy

ok actually after i wrote that all out i realized that i kinda scumread her

c) smile, get your vote off of insomnia; i'm pretty sure he's town; he's prob my second strongest townread rn i think

d) i also very much dislike that fl is still on irrel and that getting other reads out of him has been like pulling teeth

e) i think rce's kinda sheeping of me on tris was really ????? weird and felt kinda wrong. i don't know what to make of hte fact that for a while tris was on rce and rce is now on tris

f) cj is still kinda scummy but i don't think his inactivity is ai rn

g) i don't know where to vote rn

apparently i just wrote a bunch of my assorted thoughts

[skitter30]

@mod can you prod clearly and brown eyes please?

[skitter30]

With that said I'm on the other side of the fence from both of you since I think CC is probably town on demeanor and I kind of like shiidaji.

Talk to me more about CC “town on demeanor” and explain why it’s more likely than “newbscum playing the part of cheerful-newb”

Because it was indifferent newb. Which is imo bolder and less likely from someone that may feel outclassed.

rce how many times have you played with cc?

and do you still have this read on her?

[skitter30]

(i'm doing a little hw on her rn)

[skitter30]

and @rce is scum!you more likely to townread or scumread a partner?

[skitter30]

tyty

[skitter30]

ok i was wondering because it looked like you posted in a few of the newbie games i just skimmed

how do you think her personality here comapres to her personality in that game? and her content here vs her content in that game?

[skitter30]

ok
i'm actually pretty sure she's scum based on meta here

there's a small chance that this is town her feeling intimadited and thus not posting but looking at her newbie towngames - town!her is engaged, and has orignal and nuanced content, both of which are features that are kinda lacking here

scum!her, to make up for that, is cheery and is more 'chatty' i guess is a good way to put it, talking about her games and her experience without actually talking about game events - look at the beginning of her iso - it takes a *very* long time before she actually produces content, and a lot of it is ? and not entirely relevant (ie focusing on how people reacted to her entrance hundreds of posts later, when most other players already forgot about it)

and i'm a little surprised tha tyou were townreading her for her tone given that you played with scum!her and from what you wrote here it looks like you townread scum!her for that too

oh and also ellitell is a thing here, if people ascribe to that tell

[skitter30]

Mm those aren't bad reasons, actually.

Irrelephant — you were one of the four people who commented on my post, and subsequently, one of the people I'm going to have on my radar. I'm far more defensive on this than I should be but when one-third of the game is scumreading me for my intro post I have to wonder what exactly is up with it that makes it so off. Please elaborate.

why does this make you think there's scum in the group of players who didn't like your intro post?

i might have missed you already talking about this, but that sort of post is (historically) one that could come from scum and could be poked at at the beginning of the game. and by that i mean commenting on the speed of the game like that.
the fact that it's this many players should tell you it's NAI, unless you think scum as a whole was going after it.

I’m perfectly willing to overlook one or two people going “eh I don’t teally like this entrance” after the fact, but when four people felt the need to chime in on one post it gives off a major LAMIST vibe (“yeah I totally scumread that post too, fellow townies!”) Especially when it’s hundreds of posts later when some people have completely forgotten about it.

Perhaps I should revise to say that I specifically read the latest few players who jumped on the “clarity’s intro is scummy” wagon.

Wasnt fuscosco's post hundreds of posts later because he was ... reading the thread thru for the first time there?

Like that's a very different context than how you're presenting it here?

also this

[skitter30]

ok i was wondering because it looked like you posted in a few of the newbie games i just skimmed

how do you think her personality here comapres to her personality in that game? and her content here vs her content in that game?

They were games I followed to varying degrees. She's noticeably more comfortable in her newbie games. But it's an apples to oranges comparison since she's a newer player. Jumping into a different queue is daunting. Also I do believe she's rolled scum more than town afaik so comparing directly would probably be more favorable to her if there are deviations.

i can understand that but on aggregate ... there's a lot more similar here to how she played scum than how she played town in the newbie queue

[skitter30]

like i gues i feel like town!her doesn't need to search for a way to engage or to produce content, which i feel is happening here - her content doesn't feel ~natural~ if that makes sense

[skitter30]

i guess this could have been a p-edit but i basically feel like she's already failed to do so and that it's scum-indicative for her

[skitter30]

brb

[skitter30]

VOTE: cleary

[skitter30]

Skitter, despite your case on me I feel like you're town for this:

(i'm doing a little hw on her rn)

Can't imagine that you'd take the chance to fake a case on me by holding the burden of proof so early, unless you deliberately waited as a gambit. I'm trusting it's the former.

i mean tbf i think this case is prob within my scumrange, but sure

also can you respond to 646, which you've now ignored at least three different times? or if you're just not planning on answering it can you say that so i can stop asking

To say nothing of how I check this thread at least a couple times every day and catch up and I just don't find anything noteworthy to comment on. In Newbie 1929 — which I presume is the game you read as my activity was the highest it's ever been there — circumstances were different: game was active, lobby was enjoyable, scum played very shiftily. Posting anything in this game feels like chugging on a marathon with mud-covered roads with a 10 ton chain attached to my leg. I know I keep repeating this but I don't know how else to explain why my reads in this game have been nonexistent.

a) i didn't read newbie 1929, i read the first ~30 posts of your iso and noted that you made over 250 posts in that game
b) so that's the thing, i think that you being unable to think of anything to say is scum-indicative of you, based on your prior games. in your towngames you were able to post content that showed you were thinking about the game, even if it was wrong or looked kinda scummy - it was there. in your scumgames you don't. you post a lot, but it's mostly fluff, and the actual content is very surface-level observations. and here that's kinda what you're doing. you posted a lot of fluff and you don't really have content - most of what you say doesn't track as a coherent thought process.
like your readslist, which is talked about below. why did you have me as a scumread again? you don't know, you think you sheeped someone, but can't find where they stated that read and admitted you pulled the read out of nowhere
i just don't see like .... your thoughts about the game in a way that makes me believe that the things your'e saying are real thoughts

As scum I do lurk a lot more and post fluff/filler but I'm serious about winning — if I'm scum here with pretty much anyone other than MKM's slot (maybe CJ too idk) I absolutely would ask my scumbuddy to coach me, even to use me as a scapegoat if it helps the scumteam. Unless you think I'm 3p scum, but. If FL's claim holds water then another 3p sounds like a bit of a stretch.

i wouldn't be surprised if there were a lurker scumteam this game

[skitter30]

Sounds like he's something unique to this game.

Why do you scumread skitter?

tris what od you think of my assessment of the difference between your town and scumgames

[skitter30]

I'm kinda fine with a Clarity lynch because I agree with skitter's points about her meta. Otoh, her response that she'd be doing better if she has experienced partners rings sorta true, but there's situations where scum might bus her early or something so that's not exactly a clearing reason.
Can't shake the feeling Smile is a good lynch and skitter's avoiding it, though

i'm having a ridiculously hard time forming a read on them and would prefer to lynch someone i actually, like, scumread

i'm also not super happy that with five heads they're lurking

[skitter30]

smile your vote is both bad and survivalistic given plurality and it's making me want to vote you

[skitter30]

I know it's close to deadline, will be here tonight after work

[skitter30]

i kinda vaguely skimmed while i was at work so i know a hammer happened and a (maybe?) vengekill happened so i'm just going to give thoughts as i read thru again hopefully before the thread locks

i don't think that smile is flipping town. i don't know if the venge is real but i do think that smile + fl can be partners together. fl's very probbably lying about his wincon

irrel is basically always town here
persi is also prob town

ok going to actually read now

[skitter30]

But that gamestate read isn't helping me figure out which of Clarity/Fus/Smile is/are scum and which are scum-led counterwagons

p. sure smile/fus aren't scum together; i also independantly think fus is town

[skitter30]

Oh also the way Beauty tries and basically fails to scumread tris --> then tries to label them 3P to get away with scumreading tris --> then just sorta drops it and disappears without any real conclusion does NOT feel like scumhunting

no but it implies that they don't think fl is 3p (or that they think that there's more than one 3p)

[skitter30]

Actually sheeping brown eyes is 90% of the reason I want fusco. I don't know why you think I wouldn't? Read undertale, she tends to just have the best reads. Its almost like she is the type of player that would win awards for her townplay. I guess some of the rest will of what I said wasn't that compelling because sheeping brown eyes is literally where I started.

And why exactly do I not want to survive? There is nothing pro-town about being mislynched as town.

As for your other points, no, I wanted fusco before tris and my read on fusco brought me back from tris being the best wagon. Tris is probably just town actually. why are you misrepping like every single thing I wrote?

is brown eyes an alt, does anyone know?

[skitter30]

Like sure I barely read this game but essentially I can be an endgame townblock with 2 jailers. I kinda didn't care about the wagon because I wanted to claim for jailer to protect me anyway. I just wanted to see who would be the scummiest jumping on me.

this isn't how a day2 ic plays

p-edit i can imagine quite a lot of universes where the two of you are aligned, you gave your buddy a vengekill after it looked like he was getting lynched (at which he point he just started obvscumming), and then had him venge someone that was getting a lot of townreads and was trying to make the game non-stagnant

also the assocatives are on his side

idk what that's like balance-wise but it kinda fits what happens

also you won't say whether or not the mod will announce whether or not you won

[skitter30]

bleh

* associatives are from his side

[skitter30]

Smile's attitude i think comes from town more than scum in a vacuum

, but the degree of certainty with which i can say that isn't good enough that i'd want to move the wagon or try to hit Fusco instead.
and their arguments aren't great, i'm also kind of ignoring all of the "meta" seeing as i don't know who this is and elephant doesn't seem to either. it's not hard to forget a game you shared when the description you're going off is so vague, Beauty. (it's that one, right)

? no it doesn't? why do you think this comes from town more than scum

[skitter30]

still kinda think clearly is scum

[skitter30]

Well that was easier than I thought

Vengekill: Irrelephant

WOOT.

GG I WON.

If Irrelephant is killed by means other than lynch, I win.

i don't believe this is a real thing

[skitter30]

So if you win, are you out of the game FL?

still town ^^^

[skitter30]

probably skitter and brown eyes.

uh huh
do tell

[skitter30]

ok caught up

also not really townreading chara

[skitter30]

i mean the fact that you felt the need to come back here to rebut that when you were ignoring other things people said to you is kinda telling

[skitter30]

ok i will take him up on that tomorrow
how are you reading rce (for the fourth time now?)

[skitter30]

i mean the fact that you felt the need to come back here to rebut that when you were ignoring other things people said to you is kinda telling

exactly. telling that if I'm not 3rd party, I'm town.

no it's indicative that you feel the need to defend against me proposing that team

[skitter30]

that's not a real answer and you know it

[skitter30]

ok i will take him up on that tomorrow
how are you reading rce (for the fourth time now?)

he's probably scum, but I'm gonna say I town read him, and I might be right to town read him, and he might be town, but he still has to case me.

that was a response to this ^^^^

[skitter30]

because, ya know, like I've said before, I basically win with town.

uh huh

and the mod is going to post that you've won now?
your stated wincon (assuming relly is town, which i believe) is explicitly anti-town

[skitter30]

not really but ok

[skitter30]

oh good so we've established that you lied

and this means we should trust you saying that you 'basically win with town' because ...?

[skitter30]

hey skitter, why is your only question to me my comment about Smile's attitude being towny, and literally nothing else, including the part where i retract that comment unprompted upon thinking further?

also weird that you didn't seem to notice my Smile vote or what it meant with respect to keeping that wagon healthy, in spite of scumreading Smile.

and that many of your thoughts upon catching up are similar to mine, besides the Clearly scum comment.

i noticed that you retracted it later, sorry, didn't comment on it; was reading sequentially

idk what else should i have asked you about

i'm not sure what you're saying about the bolded (specifically wrt 'keeping that wagon healthy'). kinda forgot that you were on the wagon while i was reading thru

your thoughts feel kinda ~fakeable~ and shallow. at no point did i think to myself 'wow chara's really saying what i'm thinking'

[skitter30]

oh good so we've established that you lied

and this means we should trust you saying that you 'basically win with town' because ...?

Yup. You can trust that I lie as town and still put winning above all else.

you also lie as scum so....

i don't really think this convo is going anywhere

[skitter30]

i also kind of thought you would put more stock into elephant's opinion of me in this game considering he's actually been scum with me before, and i believe he mentioned that.

i also don't know if i scumread FL anymore because i don't see the point in doing his best to annoy the players who would have to townread him for him to live.
but i don't trust 3Ps either. haha.
if Smile does flip scum i do think i would consider FL groupscum less likely, too.

i don't really trust other people's reads much unless i think they have a history of reading that person correctly; i don't think i knew that he was scum with you before (if he said it i missed it, i'll go back and check);

i really don't knwo what fl's motive is here but i don't think it's town-motivated

[skitter30]

This is all hypothetical, because I'm not even sure that Smile flips scum here, but it's the poor analysis on Skitter's part which is the catalyst of my push here because Skitter is likely scum.

I've been scum with Skitter and helped protect her for a couple days, including coaching through a fake claim. She was newer then.

And I didn't bus there until days after you were forced to claim. I helped her get out it. A new player.

I don't bus needlessly. She knows I would help a partner get out of it. This is likely ScumSkitter.

a) you started pushing i was scum before i said that

b) that's a fair point. (i think you reference that game a lot more than i do, but whatever; that's one of the games that i don't think i played too well in so i don't think about it too much and don't remember most of the details tbh)

[skitter30]

hey skitter, why is your only question to me my comment about Smile's attitude being towny, and literally nothing else, including the part where i retract that comment unprompted upon thinking further?

also weird that you didn't seem to notice my Smile vote or what it meant with respect to keeping that wagon healthy, in spite of scumreading Smile.

and that many of your thoughts upon catching up are similar to mine, besides the Clearly scum comment.

i noticed that you retracted it later, sorry, didn't comment on it; was reading sequentially

idk what else should i have asked you about

i'm not sure what you're saying about the bolded (specifically wrt 'keeping that wagon healthy'). kinda forgot that you were on the wagon while i was reading thru

your thoughts feel kinda ~fakeable~ and shallow. at no point did i think to myself 'wow chara's really saying what i'm thinking'

if you think Smile's scum, that i went there when i did and avoided both the tris and the Fusco wagons should be telling enough. it's technically moot until they flip, but i'm going with the mindset that you believe they're flipping scum.
i kind of don't see the point in announcing that you aren't townreading me if you don't know what i'm doing. i sort of had the impression you would at least have checked.

i didn't remember that you were on the wagon; i didn't go back to check cuz i kinda wanted to read thru as much as i could before the thread locked

in that context you probably aren't partnered with smile

[skitter30]

Chara does have a history of reading me correctly, as does RCEnigma.

i do think rce can read you, yeah, want to see what he thinks about all of this
idk how well chara can read you pedit apaprently chara isn't sure about this either

[skitter30]

it was serious

[skitter30]

hi
i'm kinda v/la unitl monday (sister's college graduation is tom + my parents are here) but i'll try very hard to be here before then if i can

[skitter30]

I'm kinda fine with a Clarity lynch because I agree with skitter's points about her meta. Otoh, her response that she'd be doing better if she has experienced partners rings sorta true, but there's situations where scum might bus her early or something so that's not exactly a clearing reason.
Can't shake the feeling Smile is a good lynch and skitter's avoiding it, though

i'm having a ridiculously hard time forming a read on them and would prefer to lynch someone i actually, like, scumread

i'm also not super happy that with five heads they're lurking

smile your vote is both bad and survivalistic given plurality and it's making me want to vote you

skitter going from this to trying to bus Smile after their lynch was already pretty inevitable is kind of bad. i also still hated skitter's tris push yesterday, and i still think tris is town.

when skitter started treating smile as confscum before they'd flipped, i'd thought skitter was scumreading them. but now that i'm fully caught up, skitter never supported the smile wagon until 913 here, but then after that seemed to be treating them as for sure flipping scum and making her reads accordingly.

nm i have a bit of time now (might have to leave before i finish catching up tho)

a) you're right, i didn't have a read on smile until that bad vote (which incidentally happened between the two posts you quoted); the vote was bad and survivalistic. and then at eod their reaction to irrel was atrocious and it was pretty apparent they were flipping scum. i did not scumread them before 913. i didn't really have a read on them at all before that; i was having a lot of trouble reading them as a 5-headed hydra and it fucked with how i form reads

(namely, i form reads usually by trying to figure out if a person's behavior is more likely to come from town or scum them. if i've played with them before i use meta, if i haven't i try to base it on their personality based on what i'm seeing in game. 5 players on an anonymous hydra kinda fucked with my ability to do that because i couldn't get a good sense of what a given head's playstyle/personality looked like)

b) i bus and distance better than this, thank you; if i were partners with him i wouldn't have a half-assed distancing like this, knowing that i'd like bad if he flipped, esp. since he was just a goon. i know that in most scumteams i need to set myself to go for endgame if i want to win - and when i knwo what people are going to flip it's pretty easy to make myself look good afterwards.

c) i'm not convinced that tris is town

[skitter30]

Chara/Smile isn’t entirely clearing aside form Chara’s vote but I townread them anyway

i think the vote is pretty clearing actually

why is succint in your pool? just poe?

[skitter30]

This is weird for S/S

i think tha'ts fakeable for me but eh

[skitter30]

Smile wanted insomnia/tris/fuscezu lynched
All three participated in catching Smile dead
If one of those three is scum they planned a bus from real early on

smile's vote on fucezu wasn't svs imo
i don't think interactions with insomnia either
(i'm also townreading both of them independantly)

i have no memeory of their interactions with tris; let me check for a second
(aside as i'm skimming i'm seeing some svs of smile/clearly)

ok after skimming - they wanted tris lynched but never actually like .... pushed or voted their in a meaningful way? like they wanted to flip fucezu to indirectly sort tris and would revisit tris if fucezu flipped scum

If Fusc flipped scum, I think it would be worth revisiting tris.

but like ... they know fucezu's alignment and their vote on fucezu didn't feel svs at all; so like they're only setting themselves to go after tris *on the condition* that fucezu flips scum and the way they were itneracting with fucezu doesn't make me think that they thought he was going to - that doesn't read to me as seriously pushing tris or like really trying to lynch her; i don't view this push on her to be clearing

[skitter30]

i'm still unimpressed with skitter's tris scumread when i found tris to be very towny, and skitter's paranoia of me also didn't seem especially paranoid. this is weakened by my absence during day 1, however.

idk what do you want to talk about this here?

[skitter30]

i still think clearly is scummy; i haven't really reread either of smile's or clearly's iso's yet but what i remember there's some svs interactiosn there, including:

- clearly inexplicably townreading smile early game, and having smile at the top of their readslist
- smile had some soft defendign of clearly early game, and also defended her when i pushed her

[skitter30]

I’ll

also note that if Clarity is scum Chara is actually up there as a potential third

But associations with Smile alone aren’t enough for me to want Chara’s lynch yet

? i don't see this

[skitter30]

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Smile (3):

insomnia, tris, Chara

Fuscezu (3):

Brown Eyes, ClearlyClarity, Smile

ClearlyClarity (2):

skitter30, Irrelephant11

tris (1):

RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1):

Fuscezu

Irrelephant11 (1):

Flavor Leaf

Flavor Leaf (1):

Persivul

Not Voting (1):

ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

smile your vote is both bad and survivalistic given plurality and it's making me want to vote you

i agreed with skitter when she said this. Smile didn't even towncase Clearly, they gave some reasons for her to be town and then said it wasn't that strong and could still be scum.
votecount is directly after Smile's Fuscezu vote. notice anything?

hwy did they hop on fucezu and not, say, clearly?

[skitter30]

p. sure chara v irrel is tvt

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

Respecting FL’s dying read

eh i have things to say in response to this that i can't really talk about rn

anything you want to talk to me about?

[skitter30]

You know what would be funny
If skitter/Clarity is the the team and Skitter was just trying to save the scum partner she thought she could go further with in Smile by bussing Clarity
That would be funny

Pedit: itt is “in the thread”

i actually would do that lol; it's pretty much the only way my interactiosn with smile would look the way the do if i were scum
(although i would've told him to distance with clearly too if i had wanted to go to endgame with smile and bus clearly)

[skitter30]

i forgot to say, i received a delicious fruit last night. thanks!

oh this was me btw

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

oh *do* tell

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

L-1

Can't read her, but sheeping Chara/Irrelephant until given better idea.

a) i was under the impression that you think you can read me
b) just going to point out that the utter lack of resistance to an l-1 wagon at this stage of the game is kinda suspicious

[skitter30]

you put someone at L-1 just for that?

As long as not hammering, I'd vote someone for it, yes. L-1's irrelevant. Were I two minutes faster to cast it (minutes I spent skimming skitter's iso), my vote would've been L-2.

a) what did you see after skimming my iso
b) i'm pretty sure irrel unvoted cuz you voted

[skitter30]

If it wasn't for the fact that anyone would kill FL I'd say it looks bad on Skitter knowing how FL and I would find each other as town. But yeah, I still think she would have had better pushes day 1 as scum.

i also don't think i would have killed fl there (hi, i'd know *exactly* how that would make me look today)

[skitter30]

Wow. I townread skitter, but I should go over her ISO to remind myself why.

VOTE: Succinct

spicy vote. why you voting here?

[skitter30]

ok caught up

VOTE: clearly

still pretty confident this is game ^^^^

ama, but i might not be around again till monday cuz of irl things

[skitter30]

*this is scum

[skitter30]

cuz i was trying to send it to somebody i didn't think would die who i thought would prob claim it

and idk; it's a fruit vendor and i was at l-1 so i just did

[skitter30]

Off from page 47 a clarity lynch is a good idea from where I'm sitting.

I also like irrel's skitter towncase and the way he and chara are trying to look for scum here.

a) why is clarity a good lynch from your pov?
b) you do realize that irrel is not really townreading me rn, right? what towncase are you referring to?

[skitter30]

Nice hammer btw

:igmeo:
you were at like ... l-4 iirc?

I'm jailkeeper and the other JK is town. Jailed irrelephant last night

Maybe try to let me claim first next time, ye?

gut says this is true tho?

[skitter30]

lol

Forgot there's 11. I'm usually used to 9.

did you actually think you were hammered there?

[skitter30]

Welp.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Succinct

a) this is scummy if clearly is not scum imo
b) why succinct?

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

Who did you give your n0 fruit to Skitter?

irrel but it doesn't seem to have gotten there given that he hasn't claimed it

[skitter30]

when Clearly supposedly thought she was hammered, but then started "spewing herself town", it didn't feel like something that town who just got hammered would say. she was here before when explaining why she didn't explain her skitter vote, but it's only after she was "hammered" that she began to call out scumreading her at all, like in 1299.

a) i actually think the 'thinking i got hammered and claiming jk there' is kinda more likely to come from town than not
b) and yeah her trajectory on me .... does n't make much sense (although i'm going to point out that she called me a scumread on day1, although she couldn't articulate why when asked)

[skitter30]

it's also day 2, which, in a 9 player newbie game, usually means 7 players, not 9. and in this case, means 13 to 11. what's also strange is that she didn't look at any votecounts when figuring out votes to lynch, and instead counted them with the assumption of there being 9 players. it's... a really weird mistake to me. i might get it on day 1, but she must have played newbies where the votes to lynch went lower than 5, unless she kept dying day 1.

ok, say she's scum here, planning on fake-claiming jk when it's time to claim
you think she miscounts the votes on her here?

like if anything i think scum is more likely to be hyper-aware of the vc

pedit feels like the kind of unvote that comes from scum who don't think they can continue to push town claiming a strong pr; don't know how to articulate that better

[skitter30]

Irrel - Chara interactions look T/T, after yesterday when I got sheeped by Irrel that puts him really high up on my town leans.

Skitter's positioning on Smile's wagon was sort of weird, but I know she's mostly a busy person and that's why I probably would like to not lynch her today and let her justify her actions.

I'll go and analyse the people that sheeped me on the wagon and if they had any reason for it or they bussed for town cred and will come back with thoughts.

Also, did Fus just hammer a fucking jailkeeper? Why are people unvoting if it was a hammer?

idk do u want to ask me anything specific?
still think this is town ^^^^

[skitter30]

Wow. I townread skitter, but I should go over her ISO to remind myself why.
VOTE: Succinct

You sure this was spewed town, Irrelephant?

a) i was under the impression that you think you can read me

I said that when scum; I lied.

b) just going to point out that the utter lack of resistance to an l-1 wagon at this stage of the game is kinda suspicious

Not given who's driving it.

what did you see after skimming my iso

Lack of obvtownness, but as I'd expect obvtownness from you regardless of alignment, that helped little.

a) i'm p. sure i got the vibe from those games that you actually knew what you were talking about wrt my meta, even if incidentally you were scum
b) this'll sound cocky as fuck, sorry, but given who the wagon is on, yeah it is - scum who know me don't think they can mislynch me easily *at all* (hey, look at the two scumgames we just talked about! where you gave me obvtown reads!); i get at most a vote or two at this point usually; wagons don't really form on me. howver, when a wagon is already established and someone else did most of the heavy-lifting, yeah, j think they *will* hop on, cuz they see an oppurtunity to get me out of the game. so yeah, the fact that irrel and chara are pushing it def contributed to the wagon, sure, but i think that the fact that it *did* get up that high anyways is sketchy
(obvs i'm aware that i'm talking about my own wagon, this is prob going to get ignored and that's fine; i feel the need to point it out anyways)
c) ok. want to talk to me about anything?

[skitter30]

it's just that if Clearly is scum fakeclaiming, i would still look at that unvote specifically.
are you still scumreading Clearly, by the way?

and skitter, i was saying i thought Clearly was faking the mistake. i don't really think that now, however.

oh if she's scum i'd look at it too, but i do think that if clearly is town it's an especially scummy unvote

not sure atm wrt clearly; let me finish catching up

ehhhhh i think faking the mistake is prob out of her scumrange; i'd be kinda impressed if she faked that whole sequence there

[skitter30]

It does seem like a scum action.

do tell

[skitter30]

This is super nitpicky tbh? 5 votes are enough to hammer in a 7p game so I would've assumed I'd been hammered anyway. Like if you really think about this, what's more likely: that I had a brain fart and really assumed I'd been hammered, or that I pulled off a gambit that played on your impressions of my newbishness?

yeah this basically ^^^^ not sure i see that coming from newbscum really

[skitter30]

It proves that he wasn't roleblocked yesterday. In other words...

...He wasn't jailed?

Or...

I could've been roleblocked?

can jk's even be rb'd?

[skitter30]

I've been thinking about skitter's argument on CC, and to be honest CC is a slot that has been very much under the radar for me. Despite having 50+ posts I feel like the slot has had very little presence. On going back through the iso 674 jumps out at me --

while I appreciate the townread

, the more important thing to me is skitter scum along with fusc and cj. CJ is null to me but could be scum, fusc I think is scum, and skitter is someone I can see CC being paranoid about as town. So this would not be my first preference for today. That being said, I feel like CC did not push Fuscezu very hard after voting that slot, so there's some risk of that being scum distancing. I'd vote there if I have to to avoid my own mislynch but I'd much prefer Fusc, and if not Fusc then tris.

This was the first thing that pinged me. Their responses to your interrogation (esp the questionable claim) encouraged my vote.

I should also bring up that I never townlocked Smile and I had a super slight townlean on them that was based on my limited knowledge of how the hydra meta works. Like our interactions in the game so far (their defense of me etc) should have indicated that there was only one scum in the pair of us, which turned out to be Smile, who was also active enough that I would have sought advice and reads from them if I was their scumpartner.

ehhhhh this is kinda meh tho; you're retroactively kinda undermining the strength of your smile read now that they flipped scum; you had them as your highest townread in that bad readslist