Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[Battle Mage]

I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do

-GAMMA

Fair enough I'm willing to let it go today if BM comes back with something on taylor

im not a fan of this approach but wont labour the point. I think you should see this lack of support as increasing the likelihood of BM-scum, rather than reducing it. Why do you suppose some of the people defending me are not my partners?

[Battle Mage]

I'm setting up a townblock with me, exorcist, egotisi and isis. I trust their judgment.

I really like that townblock. Suggest you swap me and Isis, and I can actually roll with that.

What changed on your egotisi read?

i did answer that already. it was entirely his defence of me, which made little sense from him as scum (both in terms of timing, and the explanation given).

[Exorcists]

BM gets frustrated/sad and stops trying hard

I would normally consider this AtE but I've felt this recently so I actually vibe with it more.

noraa, you didnt take up my offer of joining the taylor wagon - talk to me about why?

I am not v confident there. I agree Taylor been acting fishy. I could see a scum!Taylor here as her normal town meta is nothing like this but I hate being SRed for shitty meta reasons that are really weak and like "this is not her town game" so I'm not gonna be one of those people.

I dont have any reasons for Taylor to be scum besides this isnt her normal town game and I'm not willing to use such a trash reason as some people here are using on me.

Actually, these latest Noraa posts strike me as genuine. I may have to talk to my other heads about it.

—Alice

[Noraa]

based primarily on how people voted you

wrong. My SRs are all really independent.
I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.

Isis I sussed when she dropped a SR on me for no apparent reason. Yes she said my posts were towny so she dropped them but 1)weak reason and 2)the posts weren't even towny

[Battle Mage]

UNVOTE:

Exorcist + gamma is good enough for me to unvote, obviously its not going anywhere

*shrug*

you gonna join me on Taylor then or what?

[Battle Mage]

The Alice-head is my favourite from the Exorcists

[Infinity 324]

@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.

@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:

BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.

Say more? Respond to what I posted?

which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.

Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!

And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagement

with the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum

. not to be persuaded I am town.

I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.

I don't think this exchange is getting anywhere. Murder is my most confident read, so I'm interested in convincing others of it (this could be useful for forming a townbloc, among other things). If you're town, my reasoning clearly just isn't getting through.

[MURDERCAT]

I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do

-GAMMA

Fair enough I'm willing to let it go today if BM comes back with something on taylor

im not a fan of this approach but wont labour the point. I think you should see this lack of support as increasing the likelihood of BM-scum, rather than reducing it. Why do you suppose some of the people defending me are not my partners?

They are TRs or TRs of my TRs. This is why I was less convinced by Noraa and Plus

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE:

Exorcist + gamma is good enough for me to unvote, obviously its not going anywhere

*shrug*

you gonna join me on Taylor then or what?

I'll think about it, but I honestly haven't convinced myself one way of the other on Noraa. I think Plus is lean town FWIW alice

[Infinity 324]

based primarily on how people voted you

I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.

The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?

[Battle Mage]

@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.

@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:

BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.

Say more? Respond to what I posted?

which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.

Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!

And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagement

with the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum

. not to be persuaded I am town.

I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.

I don't think this exchange is getting anywhere. Murder is my most confident read, so I'm interested in convincing others of it (this could be useful for forming a townbloc, among other things). If you're town, my reasoning clearly just isn't getting through.

With respect, you might not believe it's helpful to you, but it is helpful to me, so I'd be grateful if you could respond. Simply - if I challenge you on something, you saying "I don't think we're getting anywhere here" and refusing to respond is not constructive.

To be clear, if you can respond well, I am more likely to townread you. If you respond poorly, I am more likely to scumread you. This is how I play the game - you may do it differently, but please indulge me.

[Battle Mage]

based primarily on how people voted you

I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.

The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?

what if noraa turns round and says "I don't think this is getting us anywhere" and stops talking to you? Will you just accept that and townread her?

[Battle Mage]

Infinity - it's also probably worth adding, if your reasoning isn't resonating with me, it might also be because it isn't clear, and maybe discussing with me will help you get it into a better place.

Lots of value in having a little chat with old BM...

[Exorcists]

[egotisi, Taylor] is where I'd like to go today. Getting slight cold feet about Noraa, I guess.

The Alice-head is my favourite from the Exorcists

I like you too, Battle Mage.

—Alice

[Battle Mage]

In general, I feel like it would be nice to move away from the Plus vs Noraa choice.

I'm quite high on a Taylor-Infinity scumpair currently, although willing to be persuaded otherwise.

[Battle Mage]

[egotisi, Taylor] is where I'd like to go today. Getting slight cold feet about Noraa, I guess.

The Alice-head is my favourite from the Exorcists

I like you too, Battle Mage.

—Alice

I knew there was somebody who did...

let's do Taylor then. If she flips scum, look at Infinity next. I have a thought on another potential partner, which I shall keep to myself for now.

[Noraa]

I knew there was somebody who did...

I just got called nobody

[Infinity 324]

@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.

@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:

BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.

Say more? Respond to what I posted?

which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.

Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!

And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagement

with the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum

. not to be persuaded I am town.

I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.

I don't think this exchange is getting anywhere. Murder is my most confident read, so I'm interested in convincing others of it (this could be useful for forming a townbloc, among other things). If you're town, my reasoning clearly just isn't getting through.

With respect, you might not believe it's helpful to you, but it is helpful to me, so I'd be grateful if you could respond. Simply - if I challenge you on something, you saying "I don't think we're getting anywhere here" and refusing to respond is not constructive.

To be clear, if you can respond well, I am more likely to townread you. If you respond poorly, I am more likely to scumread you. This is how I play the game - you may do it differently, but please indulge me.

Sure. I can't find the second example of murder following up re: his case, if you could quote it that'd be helpful.

I don't think murder was keen on just getting an elim. To me, it seemed like he was keen on finding a

good

elim. That specifically is why it reads town to me. Scum with 3 days left may be able to get away with "let's just elim someone" and vote the biggest or second-biggest wagon. Murder didn't do that, and instead tried to engage with people to get a wagon he was more satisfied in. Sure, maybe he hoped people would just agree with him and the wagon on you would go through, however his posts read to me as if he was willing to be convinced otherwise (this is the part I seem to have difficulty explaining).

based primarily on how people voted you

I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.

The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?

what if noraa turns round and says "I don't think this is getting us anywhere" and stops talking to you? Will you just accept that and townread her?

She hasn't responded to my initial point though? If we're going back and forth and we aren't getting anywhere, I might change my mind, but how I see it is that I made a request of noraa and she hasn't given me anything.

[Noraa]

The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?

I don't have a solid read on any of them. I will admit I have tunneled in since that seems to be what ur poking and prodding at with this series of questions but regardless, no one else has done anything deserving of my attention imo.

[Battle Mage]

mhmm i think theres something to be said for hiding your townreads a little at the end of each day and maybe even throwing out some deceptive townreads. but generally, more info is good for town. the more we share reads the more info we have and the less scum can hide by saying "i have townreads but dont wanna talk about them"

I feel slightly icky about anything where we're saying town should lie about their reads - it then becomes a crutch for scum to be inconsistent. I think Taylor plays the game on a different level to me perhaps.

VOTE: RandomCanadian

I am going to very blatantly hop on this wagon because [reasons to be revealed later]

mmmmm, the longer you wait the more impressive the reasoning will have to be.

This is odd - Taylor makes a point of challenging Murdercat when he jumps on the Infinity/RC wagon, which she is a leading proponent of. Never followed up on, so isn't something she cares passionately about, but surprising that she makes a point of calling someone out for voting with her.

why are you already tunneling battle mage? It's page 10
I think that looks like an excuse to tunnel a town
I'd probably vote battle mage if they got gladiated with taylor

battle mage literally

always tunnels me

. its not good play but strictly speaking its NAI.

undermining my case on her - not necessarily AI, but it's interesting that, although I've shared numerous games with Taylor, this is the first time she's actually called me out in this way. It kinda suggests she is worried about the attention. I do also feel that Taylor cares more about winning as scum than town, so that would add up.

[Noraa]

Can y'all not quote the entire post to just respond to two sentences of it cuz if u do that, I'm literally not reading any of it.

[Battle Mage]

I knew there was somebody who did...

I just got called nobody

aww sorry noraa, join my wagon and we are coolio again!

[Noraa]

we aren't friends cuz I didn't join Taylor wagon?

[MURDERCAT]

Infinity I'm playing with you in every game from now on

[Battle Mage]

@BM Ok well if you are actually town give me something good to read and you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone, I'll town read you and push tayl0r with you.

@BM This feels like willingness to be dissuaded (though tbf only after you called him out). I may be missing something, but the only place I can see where someone disagreed about the case and murder responded back was here:

BM behaves exactly like this as town yet not like this as scum.

Say more? Respond to what I posted?

which clearly feels like an attempt to continue the engagement.

Yeah, you're missing at least 1 other. I'll let you dig it out as you're on a roll!

And to be clear I think the Noraa example above was an attempt to continue the engagement

with the purpose of persuading Noraa of BM-scum

. not to be persuaded I am town.

I'm a little baffled overall by your defence of Murdercat here. It feels slightly disproportionate given he has no votes on him, and on the face of it, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You entered the game with a clear predisposition that Murdercat was frustrated town impatient to get an elim agreed before deadline. It seems obvious to me that, regardless of his alignment, he was very keen to make me that elim. You are now arguing that he was actually very open minded and wouldnt have been at all phased by moving to a different target entirely. Which I don't think resonates from his posts, or really stacks up with your initial read on him.

I don't think this exchange is getting anywhere. Murder is my most confident read, so I'm interested in convincing others of it (this could be useful for forming a townbloc, among other things). If you're town, my reasoning clearly just isn't getting through.

With respect, you might not believe it's helpful to you, but it is helpful to me, so I'd be grateful if you could respond. Simply - if I challenge you on something, you saying "I don't think we're getting anywhere here" and refusing to respond is not constructive.

To be clear, if you can respond well, I am more likely to townread you. If you respond poorly, I am more likely to scumread you. This is how I play the game - you may do it differently, but please indulge me.

Sure. I can't find the second example of murder following up re: his case, if you could quote it that'd be helpful.

I don't think murder was keen on just getting an elim. To me, it seemed like he was keen on finding a

good

elim. That specifically is why it reads town to me. Scum with 3 days left may be able to get away with "let's just elim someone" and vote the biggest or second-biggest wagon. Murder didn't do that, and instead tried to engage with people to get a wagon he was more satisfied in. Sure, maybe he hoped people would just agree with him and the wagon on you would go through, however his posts read to me as if he was willing to be convinced otherwise (this is the part I seem to have difficulty explaining).

I can buy the defence of "Murder didn't go with the existing wagons and went to the effort of starting something from scratch, which seems high effort for scum". I'm not sure how strong that is - seems perfectly possible Murder-scum could think he might be able to cruise on suspicion of me for a while, or just didn't want to be on a mis-elim, or was particularly keen to eliminate me while I wasn't able to defend myself. And yes I think we disagree on the fact of whether he appeared willing to be persuaded otherwise or not. In reality, we can see now he HAS been persuaded otherwise, although I think that's in some part due to me engaging with him constructively, which was something you and him both thought would be pointless.

based primarily on how people voted you

I sussed plus first so if anything he is OMGUSing me. I explained my progression a few posts ago but was too lazy to go find it. I'll quote it if u can't find it.

The keyword there is primarily, since plus started scumreading you that has seemed to be the main reasoning. Can you give details on any other reads (my slot, murdercat, exorcists, etc.)?

what if noraa turns round and says "I don't think this is getting us anywhere" and stops talking to you? Will you just accept that and townread her?

She hasn't responded to my initial point though? If we're going back and forth and we aren't getting anywhere, I might change my mind, but how I see it is that I made a request of noraa and she hasn't given me anything.

i'm making a point that your philosophy is that town shouldn't bother debating with people, and should only try and buddy up and work with people they believe they can trust, rather than scumhunting per se. So Noraa could have taken the approach you tried with me, which is saying "nah I don't wanna respond to you, I'd rather talk to people who might townread me/might be easily persuadable".