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[DeasVail]

fwiw also i did not visit "whoever died" n1

[Menalque]

Anyway, I’m not sure I like GL’s progression into voting me after thinking I’m likely town and seems like he’s kinda transitioning onto one of the easiest elims as I became more viable due to inactivity

Why do you think scum!me would choose to do that instead of staying on Smart?

I’m not sure, I don’t really know how you play scum but I’m not sure how much you would prioritise having consistent reads vs just getting town yeeted

If you didn’t think it would draw attention onto you I can see scum!lion just going for the easiest option

But I guess mostly I don’t really get some of your progression — hang on, I’ll pull quotes

[Frogsterking]

fwiw also i did not visit "whoever died" n1

[Menalque]

Frog what do you think about the idea that Menalque appeared to genuinely not know that his slot had already claimed VT

do you think that Menalque did know this and was bluffing/lying
or do you think he got lucky with the exact same fakeclaim

cause if he's scum it has to be one or the other and neither feels correct to me, especially since other players have expressed similar doubts that he was aware of obscure's VT claim

town: {Nero, Ausuka, Datisi, Scamper, CSF}
eh, maybe there's a scum in here, but probably not: {Ydrasse, DV, Dann, Frog}
don't want to lim today but wouldn't be totally surprised: {fireisred, Mena}
would lim: {Smart, TSQ}

I think the more I look at other slots the more TSQ scum actually makes sense? I dunno I'm hesitant to push it unless the appointed town leaders wanna go there cause if it's wrong it feels more likely to be damaging to town win than a Smart flip, but my current worldview doesn't have a lot of room for scum and fire/Mena have both made townie feeling posts today imo

VOTE: Something_Smart

do you think that Menalque did know this and was bluffing/lying

what is difficult to imagine about this

i don't think it's very unlikely that either (1) scum!mena did a quick iso of the slot he replaced in, (2) scum!mena got told in the scum pt that his slot claimed vt

and lying about it is very easy to do

and considering i know you're aware of scum!mena's caliber, i am Skeptical that you somehow think this is town-indicative for him?

eh for me it was just the timing of the way he acted like he forgot/didn't know the slot claimed, I'm not saying making the correct VT claim in and of itself is town-indicative, rather the execution of how he carried out that whole sequence of real time interaction with scamper

if he's scum it was very smooth, like I guess I just disagree with you that making the sequence of posts 5803, 5807, 5809, 5813, 5817, 5818, 5842, 5851 in real time over the span of 15-20 minutes is "very easy" to do

I haven't been scum in a year+ so maybe I'm overestimating the difficulty but idk I'd be anxious making all those posts and I don't sense any anxiety in them

ok fine - how well do you think you can read mena

I would say, better than I can read most people. I recall one game, cursed though it was, where I was pretty much the only person to (correctly) call out Mena as scum. Of course I was not in a position to convince anyone, but when am I ever?

That's honestly the main thing that's making me feel this way, so I don't know how accurate it is. But I don't think I've played with scum-Mena many other times (and I can't recall ever confidently and incorrectly scumreading him), so I guess I have an okay read rate historically.

like, in my mind, S_S is the titan of doubting reads, not putting too much weight on things that aren't AI, not being sure of his own play or others

but all of the sudden he's like "yeah I correctly scumread Mena one time so I have an okay read rate historically"?

...I mean, did I use "historically" wrong? My read rate on him in past games has been better than chance. It's very rare that I'm the only person in a game to confidently scumread someone, so it's pretty noteworthy to me when I do that and am correct.

I'm being unfair and conflating two ideas

I can buy that a) you believe you have a decent read rate historically

I can't buy that b) you think you have enough data in this game to have a firm read on him

but I'm realizing just because you said a) doesn't mean you've actually said b) at any point and the question you were responding to was more directly about a)

so I think I'm wrong on this point

Datisi I'm proud of u for following my patented "reading MT" method

reads would be hard to give when I've read approx 0 of the game

I do also think this was weird

ok I think I'm talking myself back into Mena
VOTE: Menalque

Like this felt a bit jarring, and sure admittedly I haven’t been around but given our history etc I kinda would’ve expected you to ask me (à la Datisi) for further clarification here especially given that you’d expressed a lack of desire to lim me before and were actively pointing out things that were bothering your re:S_S right beforehand

[Menalque]

DV, you still around? I’ve browsed your ISO but I don’t rly understand your preference for an S_S lim

Only for a little bit longer, but my scumread on S_S does not come from deep analysis.

My main reasons are that I think he was trying to keep the option of my elimination open Day 2 whilst there was indecision regarding the Gamma/MT slot, without

looking

like he was hoping for my elimination.
The play D3 is also just... flat. And incongruous with the hero Nero vote and trying to sell that as something scum-him wouldn't do. It feels more performative than actually trying to work reads out. Why isn't he working out whether I'm scum or not? After he seemed so open to that idea yesterday?

Also everyone else I can convince myself into finding a reason for them to be town. I can't with S_S

Okay, let me go back and reread his D2 play for that, but I still really don’t think that fb plays this way, in this PL, and then reps out if he got scum

[DeasVail]

DV, you still around? I’ve browsed your ISO but I don’t rly understand your preference for an S_S lim

Only for a little bit longer, but my scumread on S_S does not come from deep analysis.

My main reasons are that I think he was trying to keep the option of my elimination open Day 2 whilst there was indecision regarding the Gamma/MT slot, without

looking

like he was hoping for my elimination.
The play D3 is also just... flat. And incongruous with the hero Nero vote and trying to sell that as something scum-him wouldn't do. It feels more performative than actually trying to work reads out. Why isn't he working out whether I'm scum or not? After he seemed so open to that idea yesterday?

Also everyone else I can convince myself into finding a reason for them to be town. I can't with S_S

Okay, let me go back and reread his D2 play for that, but I still really don’t think that fb plays this way, in this PL, and then reps out if he got scum

What would be so different for fb about being scum in this playerlist vs. town?

[Frogsterking]

Nice theater guys. Clap clap.

[Menalque]

DV, you still around? I’ve browsed your ISO but I don’t rly understand your preference for an S_S lim

Only for a little bit longer, but my scumread on S_S does not come from deep analysis.

My main reasons are that I think he was trying to keep the option of my elimination open Day 2 whilst there was indecision regarding the Gamma/MT slot, without

looking

like he was hoping for my elimination.
The play D3 is also just... flat. And incongruous with the hero Nero vote and trying to sell that as something scum-him wouldn't do. It feels more performative than actually trying to work reads out. Why isn't he working out whether I'm scum or not? After he seemed so open to that idea yesterday?

Also everyone else I can convince myself into finding a reason for them to be town. I can't with S_S

Okay, let me go back and reread his D2 play for that, but I still really don’t think that fb plays this way, in this PL, and then reps out if he got scum

What would be so different for fb about being scum in this playerlist vs. town?

Oh, I think fb ~generally~ when scum = having more fun, seems like is enjoying game etc. This is amplified imo if it’s people he likes playing with, and I think there’s enough old hands here who I’m p sure he gets along decently with (like sure there’s no MariaR or RC who I remember him particularly liking) but I would expect him to be an order of magnitude more excited if he were scum in what, to him, would be a good PL

[Menalque]

Nice theater guys. Clap clap.

You’re tiresome

[Menalque]

Nero, you seem quite bothered by my posts. Do you think I’m scum?

probably, yes

probably, yes

Cool

UNVOTE:

????

Your scumread on me seems superficial but not inauthentic

I mildly like this sequence from DV

DV seems generally pretty careful and deliberate with his posting, it could be partially for optics or it could just be his style. Aside from the sequence I quoted I didn't see a lot that deviated from "scum playing a standard solid-ish scumgame". Since there are surely other people who also fit that description, I guess he's on the chopping block for low activity?

His progression on me doesn't really make a lot of sense, it seemed like he had me as town for mild efforting when it was potentially possible to get towncred from WK'ing, and now that my wagon has collapsed he wants to keep open the option of re-starting it. Or he just happened to have weakly-justified reads that followed that pattern.

I'm guessing that #5185 and #5186 are within Dease's scum range?

I would think so. At this point scum-Deas has license to go for a risky-ish play.

As far as I can see, these are the only S_S posts on you from D2, DV and tbh I’m not seeing it?

He seems to have been fairly openly not pro-MT lim but I think this is far too little to conclude that he’s hoping it might get you limmed instead

As for why he’s not as interested in you today, that I am curious about but I have an idea of what it could be, although I’d like to see S_S respond first

[Menalque]

Also, @T3, numbering your VCs would be endlessly helpful (e.g. 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 etc)

[Menalque]

Town!
CSF
Datisi
Ausuka
scamper

Town
S_S
Frog

Idfk
Nero
Ydra
Shea
GL

Scum?
DV
Dannflor
fireisredsir

My head is hurting again and my nostrils are attempting to recreate the river Nile so I’m going to lie down but not before I leave y’all with this barebones ass readlist

[Frogsterking]

Okay that's a pretty funny reads list, I can respect the humor in Menalque's scum game now.

[Frogsterking]

Hey CSF can you shoot me tonight to confirm my claim. Menalque+Dease aren't claiming some weird visit so it will confirm them both.

[Frogsterking]

Nice theater guys. Clap clap.

You’re tiresome

Meow.

[Frogsterking]

Hey guys my girlfriend just got in a car accident so I'm headed to the hospital and won't be able to post as much. Can you please push Mena + Dease through, it wins the game for us unless I don't understand how the roles work. I'll track S_S or fire ig

[GuiltyLion]

Like this felt a bit jarring, and sure admittedly I haven’t been around but given our history etc I kinda would’ve expected you to ask me (à la Datisi) for further clarification here especially given that you’d expressed a lack of desire to lim me before and were actively pointing out things that were bothering your re:S_S right beforehand

I think you're maybe overestimating the degree to which I was townreading you, before you started playing I posted a big thing on obscure/gamma associatives and was voting your slot most of yesterday. I did like the ease at which you claimed and tried to reeval with that in mind, but then Datisi pointing out that he thought scum!you could fake that combined with you dropping off definitely weakened my confidence in it

I appreciate the explanation though I don't think this is unfair

[GuiltyLion]

EBWOP - I appreciate the explanation though,**

The lack of comma might change the meaning of that last sentence which is not intended

[GuiltyLion]

Oh, I think fb ~generally~ when scum = having more fun, seems like is enjoying game etc. This is amplified imo if it’s people he likes playing with, and I think there’s enough old hands here who I’m p sure he gets along decently with (like sure there’s no MariaR or RC who I remember him particularly liking) but I would expect him to be an order of magnitude more excited if he were scum in what, to him, would be a good PL

This is wonky to me though. Do you have reason to believe FB doesn't have fun when he's town?

Like I buy that FB generally likes playing scum and can have fun with it, but I don't see why any of this reasoning wouldn't apply to him as town either? So if his lack of enthusiasm isn't scum-indicative, I don't think it's necessarily town-indicative either, unless you have an understanding that FB doesn't like playing town. Which doesn't really vibe with my prior experience with him

[Thestatusquo]

Frogster i think the most pro town thing you could do right now would be to just shut the fuck up for like 15 hours.

[Thestatusquo]

Hey guys my girlfriend just got in a car accident so I'm headed to the hospital and won't be able to post as much. Can you please push Mena + Dease through, it wins the game for us unless I don't understand how the roles work. I'll track S_S or fire ig

Hadn't read this yet before i yelled. I hope your girlfriend is ok.

[Thestatusquo]

I would be pleased if Mena were town and we could go Lim fireisred.

I will say i think fb enthusiasm argument is pretty bad. I've seen him enthusiastic as town and not enthusiastic as scum many times with good player lists and bad ones.

[T3]

Prodding Cat Scratch Fever and fireisredsir.

[T3]

Menalque (5): Ydrasse, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, scamper, Frogsterking
Something_Smart (4): Ausuka, fireisredsir, Cat Scratch Fever, DeasVail
fireisredsir (2): Thestatusquo, Something Smart
Not voting (3): Menalque, Nero Cain, Datisi
Day 3 will end in (expired on 2022-09-30 19:35:00). With 14 alive, it takes 8 to eliminate and 7 to no eliminate.

[Thestatusquo]

Mena do you have reasoning for the scum portion of that read list