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Post Post #2450 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:15 pm

Post by Psyche »

so,
particularly given how many isos look town,
investigative maybe probably *should* spend a shot on gypyx/thomith.
why? one action holds potential to clear
two
slots instead of
one

that basic math should be really compelling

i can anticipate some counterarguments

maybe you think those slots are already cleared
i'd argue that gypyx/thomith positioning on key wagons D1, D2, and today have a good chance of looking bad in retrospect.
some key posts are
weird
and through off weak though easily discardable alarm bells
even the ranger hammer can be interpreted as an attempt to take the greatest advantage of
even if you personally TR these slots, you might be dead by lategame.
someone like RN? a better chance of not being dead
if game goes late and these slots are alive, the remote possibility of those two being scum will keep town paranoid and unable to reach a sound consensus
is it lowkey unlikely that 3 scum would be in a neighborhood? idk maybe. gypyx has emphasized that it should still be considered plausible, possible.

maybe you think it's a better idea to investigate your own personal nullread or scumread
i want to convince you that your role should focus on reducing the (worst) town's uncertainty instead of testing your pre-conceptions
if you really do have a great scumread, i think you should be able to case the slot and push that through.
plenty of people in this town pay attention to cases and are able to assess if there's anything to them.
reducing town's uncertainty about other slots will indirectly facilitate your other pushes anyway!
and the move that would reduce town's uncertainty the most is potentially the one that clears
two
slots instead of just
one


maybe you think their survival through lategame would be enough signal to tell if they should be townread
i think this reasoning depends on WIFOM that scum have flexibility to play around.
scum might be aware of this reasoning and use that as enough reason not to shoot one of gypyx/thomith.
in fact, they may prefer to, indeed, spend their night kills search for you or other PRs.
if you are an investigative, scum probably has enough power to guess that you might exist and choose a strategy focused on that.
so consider that

there's an argument that 1) the strength of gypyx/thomith's townplay plus 2) the unlikelihood of them being in a neighborhood with ranger as their scum plus 3) their pure commitment from the start of the game to this claim should be enough to decide that the two are town. but i think point 1 is weak enough atm and the others are weak enough on their own that it would still be worthwhile for an investigative to just go ahead and confirm something we can already guess.

whatever, maybe. i guess im unsure of this argument in retrospect.
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Post Post #2451 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:17 pm

Post by Psyche »

"gl town" seems to sidetrack from the "yall suck" ethos
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Post Post #2452 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:19 pm

Post by Naerys »

Wanted to be polite as i get blasted out of the scene
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Post Post #2453 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:38 pm

Post by geraintm »

In post 2255, Snow2697 wrote: So, Naerys was trying to save Dave-Ranger, at the same time refusing to answer legit questions.
Lycan and Pshyche gave crucial votes into Ranger and should not be considered today.
VOTE: Naerys
there seems a bunch of sense going into this vote.
In post 2261, Naerys wrote: VOTE: snow
not great
In post 2267, Naerys wrote:
In post 1000, Alianna wrote:
2.08
Votecount 2.08


Ranger (4): Hu Tao, Random Nurse, Thomith, Gypyx
Naerys (3): Ranger, Titus, PenguinPower
Titus (1): Naerys
Thomith (1): Snow2697

Not Voting (4): Oblivion, geraintm, KayJayQueue, Lycanfire

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-04-06 10:29:00).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here. Also POST 1000 IS MINE!!!
and here i am the counter wagon
with ranger leading it
DO YOU STILL THINK WE ARE ALIGNED?
this is both making sense and also what i would expect a competent scum to do.
In post 2273, Oblivion wrote: Naerys' arguments make about as much sense as Ranger's did. It notes they popped in only to defend themselves and are now scrambling to find alternative targets.

Naerys needs to be the elimination for today. Bottom line.
more sense
In post 2278, KayJayQueue wrote: I know this won’t do me much good but I really think this is town!Naerys. So much of her frustration feels genuine and I’d be just as annoyed if I just got pushed out for being wrong (and I might be next, it seems). Maybe it’s because I’ve sort of been in the same boat as her much of the game, or at least adjacent, but I feel like I get where she’s coming from. She was wrong, but she wasn’t the only person who was wrong and it seems weird to not be considering anyone that was on the wagon to be bussing.
one day Kay will take a possition

will continue to catch up now
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Post Post #2454 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:42 pm

Post by geraintm »

In post 2353, Psyche wrote:
In post 1300, Alianna wrote:
2.15
Votecount 2.15


Ranger (3): Random Nurse, Titus, Oblivion
Hu Tao (3): Ranger, Naerys, PenguinPower
Snow2697 (2): Thomith, Gypyx
PenguinPower (2): KayJayQueue, Hu Tao
Thomith (1): Snow2697

Not Voting (2): geraintm, Lycanfire

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-04-07 10:29:00).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.
In post 1303, Oblivion wrote: Ranger's claim is so many levels of BS.

Does no one except it remember when Ranger bragged about how surprised it woupd be about her claim and then claimed the least surprising most obvious bait claim in the world that didn't match that tone at all?

What is going to happen is that Ranger will live today if you let her, live tomorrow on promise of shooting someone but you will never get that shot. Either they will claim to be roleblocked or shoot a townie and then if you go "okay time to sort ranger" it is MELO and you won't have space to do it.

Now is the time to murder this suspicious player with a suspicious claim. Town does not need a N3 Vig or a N4 Jailkeeper, and more likely it is a scum fake claim.

We should not be running up other players to claim to feed the scum more info on our roles.

Murder Ranger with it, they will flip scum.
would have to be some pretty vigorous bussing! i don't believe it at this point
i like this post
In post 2360, Naerys wrote: Why gera and snow arent suspected when they werent up for ranger lim either is the question
i had no reason to scum read Ranger. a lot of it was coming from Hood stuff that i was not privy too, i was not going to vote them
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Post Post #2455 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:44 pm

Post by Naerys »

I am not competent as scum tho
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Post Post #2456 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:44 pm

Post by Thomith »

If there is an investigative that can outright clear me/gypyx I don't think that is a waste at all. Hell I'm tempted to say even vigging one of us might be worth it.

If the investigative is, like the example RN gave earlier, say a Role Cop, then all they would get is "Informed Neighbour", which doesn't outright clear is, and so that is where I'm not sure it's worth it.
thomith could be a court jester

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Post Post #2457 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:45 pm

Post by Thomith »

Ugh this doesn't feel like scum!Naerys at all, but maybe this close to deadline a town!Naerys flip gives us enoughbinformation that helps us sort.
thomith could be a court jester

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Post Post #2458 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:47 pm

Post by geraintm »

In post 2447, Naerys wrote: VOTE: naerys
Bye
?!
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Post Post #2459 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:48 pm

Post by geraintm »

i started off my read through, but then realised there were like 8 more pages so i was rushing and then i came to that vote.
so all wasted :(
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Post Post #2460 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:50 pm

Post by Psyche »

is that vote a hammer?
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Post Post #2461 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:54 pm

Post by Snow2697 »

Why is Titus a better lime for today than Naerys?

During D1 and D2 Naerys demonstrated a pattern of directing attention from scum!dave to others, incl. town!hu tao. Towns can make mistakes, but such a pattern ... She did not explain it and is acting incooperatively to say the least.

We have 2 concepts:

1. Naerys lime. Concept - shielding scum!dave. She is the focus of (a) Dave-Ranger's wagons and counterwagons, (b) Wisp-Naerys conflict from D1 about "wagon is bad is very easy for scum" and (c) voting outside the hood.

2. Titus lime. Concept - bussing scum!dave. Also means vote into the hood. (Please add reasons here, don't see them yet.)

I think "bussing" is too early now and "shielding" should be preferred. Re hood-no hood, there are Thomith-Gypyx-me, so limming within the hood may mean that we will be voting the hood forever. Should be a strong reason to vote inside the hood now.

My strong preference for today is Naerys. I can consider someone else from non-hood, other than Lycan-Psyche (atm towns for me from D2 vote analysis) and Gera (compromised by Naerys on D1). If Gera is limmed and is town, I will really press Naerys tomorrow.
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Post Post #2462 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:56 pm

Post by Naerys »

Anyone else feels like snow is kinda quickly changing tune
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Post Post #2463 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:57 pm

Post by Psyche »

changing tune about what
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Post Post #2464 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:58 pm

Post by Naerys »

About who is better lim
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Post Post #2465 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:59 pm

Post by Psyche »

most recent post seems consistent with where he's been since the 1v1 with gypyx
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Post Post #2466 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:59 pm

Post by Snow2697 »

In post 2462, Naerys wrote: Anyone else feels like snow is kinda quickly changing tune
It's not. I still want to lim you.
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Post Post #2467 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:00 pm

Post by Snow2697 »

In post 2460, Psyche wrote: is that vote a hammer?
I think that Naerys is now at E-1.
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Post Post #2468 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:02 pm

Post by Snow2697 »

Let's hammer Naerys. I don't see a better candidate for today from the "who tried to save Dave" perspective.
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Post Post #2469 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:07 pm

Post by Naerys »

Dont call me that, thanks
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Post Post #2470 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:08 pm

Post by Psyche »

not ruling it out but atm don't see snow redoubling so robustly at this moment as scum — however naeyrs flips

guess big countervail to this take would be if oblivion or another real alternative is scum and he feels like another nudge is necessary. maybe someone pairs me and snow based on that rationale if naeyrs flips town? meh idea overall — i'm pretty unlikely today despite idle talk

omg psyche focussss
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Post Post #2471 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:17 pm

Post by Snow2697 »

In post 2469, Naerys wrote: Dont call me that, thanks
I still will.
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Post Post #2472 (ISO) » Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:23 pm

Post by Naerys »

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Post Post #2473 (ISO) » Wed Apr 17, 2024 1:33 am

Post by Random Nurse »

OK we need to consolidate.

VOTE: Titus
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Post Post #2474 (ISO) » Wed Apr 17, 2024 1:33 am

Post by Random Nurse »

VOTE: Naerys

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