Newbie 1484 (Day Two)

[Bulbazak]

Hello everyone! I'll be your IC (Inexperienced Challenged) for this game. My play is dictated by that article our mod mentioned and that I am too lazy to link to myself (And to give you an idea how lazy I am, this speech has been copied and pasted from my last game as IC.). My job is to make your transition onto the site an easy one and to answer all your questions about the game, along with the SEs, who are my question answering helper monkeys. The problem is that sometimes your helper monkeys just want to play the game, so if you really need an answer, please be sure to ask me as I am obligated to provide any help you may need in regards to game theory. In addition, I'll most likely spout something game theoryish every so often to help you understand the game better.

For example:

This phase of the game is generally known as RVS, or the Random Voting Stage. Sometimes it is known as RQS (Random Question Stage) or just R*S. The point of it is to give us information right off the bat so that we can begin scumhunting as soon as we can. Otherwise, we'd just be wandering aimlessly. This stage of play ends when somebody finds something they find legitimately scummy and pressures someone on it. Contrary to popular belief, if a wagon starts building quickly, RVS is probably over and we need to examine why that wagon built up so quickly, as scum is probably on it. That means sorting through motive, etc.

To start things off:

Vote Catboi

Because one of my helper monkeys is bound to be scum.

I'd also like to know how much experience each of you has with Mafia, that way I know how much I should expect to guide you through this game. I, for example, have over a year's worth of experience with the game and have been in over 30 games on and off site. I'm also playing in 11 other games atm, so if I don't get back to you right away, I might just be busy elsewhere. I'm not ignoring you.

Lastly, I'd like all those that don't have an avatar to get one. They help us tell each player apart, and it makes it easier to associate each player with their actions.

[Bulbazak]

My play is dictated by that article our mod mentioned and that I am too lazy to link to myself

See, this is what happens when you're too lazy to check to see if the mod actually linked the article. Here it is: Being a Good IC.

[Bulbazak]

I've been playing over a year on another mafia site. Probably around 10 or so games.


I'll

vote Hopkirk

cause if one of the helpers is bound to be scum then one us is guaranteed to voting for mafia.

This is untrue. There is an equal chance any player can be scum and that's not affected by ic/se/newbie.

Bul want to explain why you want to trick the newbies?

Defensive much?

Unvote

Vote Hopkirk

[Bulbazak]

No i just think it's completely against the spirit of being an ic to be giving the new players misinformation in your ic intro post.

Want to explain why then, dodging my q much.

There was no misinformation. I introduced the concept of the Random Voting Stage, and then put down a random vote. What about that didn't you understand? The odds are the same for anyone to draw scum, since the roles are randomly distributed. There could be 1 scum in the SEs, none, or they both could be scum. Heck, I could be scum. The point was not to get into random distribution, which should be apparent to anyone, but to get the game started via RVS.

Now, that being said, there is a wide held theory among some more experienced players that there is likely to be scum among the SEs and the IC. I'm not sure where this theory came from, and I haven't seen it be incorrect that often. That seems like a solid start imo, don't you think?

[Bulbazak]

@Bulbazak: Any numbers for how often this is right? I mean, I can sort of see why (so newbie Mafia members have someone teaching them how to play as Mafia at the same time as the newbie Townies have someone trying to help them play well as Townies so the balance isn't tipped too heavily in Town's favour), but to have that always be the case when there are only three people in each game classed as non-newbies? That's just encouraging people to kill them off because there's ~1/3 chance of them being Mafia and it's not like you would always have to flip all of them in order to get to the Mafia member. So yeah, numbers would be useful, even a rough estimate.

Out of the 11 completed Newbie games I have on site, 6 of them had at least 1 of the SEs/IC as scum. So I guess it's a little better than 50%. That's good enough for a random vote.

[Bulbazak]

Hopkirk, it's a random vote. Why are you freaking out so much over it? Is it because that JarJar accidentally nailed you, and now you're ticked at being caught for not only the wrong reason, but a very bad one?

[Bulbazak]

But you only said something when somebody voted you. You didn't treat it as a random vote or as a vote of no consequence. You freaked out and got defensive unjustifiably. It should be apparent that I was voting in reference of the RVS phase that I just got done talking about. What would have been different if I would have said that everybody who loved cats always drew scum, or that anybody whose name started with an H tended to draw scum, or that anybody with the name JarJar ALWAYS drew scum? What would be the difference? Absolutely nothing. But you made it a big deal. Why? Because someone voted you in jest using what was obviously silly reasoning.

[Bulbazak]

For reference, I used the exact same speech in this game, and no one even batted an eye.

[Bulbazak]

"But you only said something when somebody voted you": My first post of the game? The misrepping begins i see. It's pretty obvious i don't care about jarjar- he was random, you're i one i'm suspicious of for trying to trick newbies with false information.

I've been playing over a year on another mafia site. Probably around 10 or so games.


I'll

vote Hopkirk

cause if one of the helpers is bound to be scum then one us is guaranteed to voting for mafia.

This is untrue. There is an equal chance any player can be scum and that's not affected by ic/se/newbie.

Bul want to explain why you want to trick the newbies?

If you didn't care about JarJar and his vote, why did you quote it?

[Bulbazak]

Now this post on the other hand, I'm not sure I like:

Hopkirk, it's a random vote. Why are you freaking out so much over it? Is it because that JarJar accidentally nailed you, and now you're ticked at being caught for not only the wrong reason, but a very bad one?

How would he be "caught" or "nailed"? Like you said in your post, it's the RVS. None of the votes in this stage are likely to stick since there's no actual reason for them.

Do you really think he'd be mad about it as scum? Because even if he thought that I was really voting for that reason, it would obviously be explained (and it was) that roles are determined randomly.

I think he's scum that misjudged the seriousness of your vote and freaked out unnecessarily. His response was not a townie one.

[Bulbazak]

In the one game that I read, Day 1, a player acted much like Bulbazak did, and a player acted much like Hopkirk is. The player that acted EXACTLY like Bulbazak turned out to be scum, and the player acting like Hopkirk turned out to be a vigilante.

Define how I'm acting. Define how Hopkirk is acting. Also, there are no vigs in Newbie games.

[Bulbazak]

My point was that the player in that game that you are emulating turned out to be scum.

I'm not emulating anyone. This is how I play.

I'm not entirely sure how I'd define how you're acting, but I guess the closest thing I can define it as is...trying to hard? What I mean is that the pressure you're applying to Hopkirk is over extravagant and it is obviously serving very little purpose. I see your behavior as more of a way to attempt to establish town cred for pressuring someone.

So...you think I'm scum because I'm aggressive? Playstyle is not alignment indicative. If you think my aggression is bad, you haven't seen anything yet.

Hopkirk is mostly just acting in an OMGUS manner. As in, he's entirely defensive and isn't putting as much pressure on you as you are on him. While I don't really consider the vast majority of his pressure to be valid (I really don't think your first posts here indicate you as scum or town). An OMGUS from a new player who has probably even less knowledge of the game than I do makes me think that he's town. New town players from what I've observed get a lot more frustrated than new scum, veteran scum, or veteran town.

Hopkirk is an SE, which means that he is not a new player and has at least 3 games of experience on the site, potentially more given his July 2013 join date. Does that change your opinion any?

[Bulbazak]

I was under the impression that all of us were new besides yourself. I may need to go back and read. Yes, my opinion is altered with my newfound knowledge that he is not new. :p

Hopkirk, Catboi, and myself are all not new players.

[Bulbazak]

26- Because I was telling him you were lying to him.

I was not lying to him. I am strictly forbidden as an IC to lie about game theory. So you're essentially saying that I purposefully broke the rules just to win, although all evidence points to the contrary.

29- I have clearly said I don’t care about jar jar. I care about YOU for giving misinformation to newbies.

Except you only cared when JarJar copied my joke reasoning in his random vote.

Making the same post in and previous game then linking to it… he can do that as scum, if he thinks it worked last time it takes away the risk for him in rvs this time (he hoped).

I copied the same post, because I'm lazy and didn't feel like writing a new one. You're right that the post doesn't make me town, but it doesn't make me scum. In actuality, it's a null action.

36- Bulb trying to straw man faries by picking an unimportant point and pretending it’s crucial to what she’s saying.

Except that wasn't the most important part of MY post either. I was just informing her that there were no vigs in Newbie games, me being the IC and all.

Why do you say this “Because one of my helper monkeys is bound to be scum.” Aka lie to new players in the middle of two paragraphs on how to play. A new player reading that would believe it to be true- as it’s in the “how to play” part thus it appears as a deliberate attempt to trick them- explain yourself.

I just got done talking about RVS, then I made a break from that paragraph for my actual RVS vote to show them how it's done. If you'd notice, the vote and reasoning (which is non-serious) are grouped together away from everything else. I don't think anybody in their right mind would have thought that was serious, and if they did, all they'd have to do is ask, and I would have clarified it.

P-edit: I see you posturing Hopkirk. Stop being so obv. scum.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba, what do you mean by "posturing"?

He was laying the groundwork for a future push, in this case, his push on you. Essentially, he says that my wagon wasn't going anywhere, so he hops on the wagon he was preparing as an escape route.

1.) You place it in such a way it appears to be part of your intro so yeah lie by placement.

It

is

part of my intro. It's just not serious, as it's an RVS vote meant to illustrate the concept I just finished explaining.

2.) You are ignoring the fact that’s the first time I came to the thread + my first post why?

How am I ignoring that? Why is it important? Are you now trying to say that you

weren't

serious when you accused me of cheating?

4.) Sounds like you’re saying their point is invalid because a minor point is wrong to me.

If I thought her point was invalid, why did I ask her to expand on it?

5.) The first newbie to post believed you. Another one later did too. Yet you feel justified in saying “nobody would believe me” how?

I haven't seen any newbies who believed it, and the ones who were confused asked me about it, and I was only too happy to expand on it.

Bulb is acting far too defensive.

Coming from the guy who freaked out over an RVS vote, I'll take this with a grain of salt. You can keep trying to discredit me if you like, though.

I have a better lead. Bulb is neutrally read by hop.

Vote faries

I'd be willing to bet that either Hopkirk or One (perhaps both) are scum based on their reasons given for wanting to lynch me.

Then why aren't you voting one of them?

Note:

I wanted to vote Fairies BEFORE I read those posts so I'm not bandwagoning

Why do you feel the need to inform us that you're not bandwagoning? That seems awfully self-conscious.

Well I don't know how people feel about lynching lurkers but I'm all for it especially in noob games.

The only way I would even consider lynching a lurker is if we couldn't find scum and we needed a compromise wagon. I don't think that will be the case.

[Bulbazak]

1.) You don’t say at any point it’s not serious. The rest of it is serious. There is no way a new player is going to know it’s not serious if it’s in the part your explaining the game (if they haven’t played before).

I hope that people have enough common sense to recognize a random vote right after I got done talking about random votes.

2.) Because you said twice that I only “made a deal of it after jarjar voted me”… despite the fact I wasn’t here BEFORE jarjar voted and

I didn’t reference jarjr at all.

I've been playing over a year on another mafia site. Probably around 10 or so games.


I'll

vote Hopkirk

cause if one of the helpers is bound to be scum then one us is guaranteed to voting for mafia.

This is untrue. There is an equal chance any player can be scum and that's not affected by ic/se/newbie.

Bul want to explain why you want to trick the newbies?

implying I posted before jarjar when I didn’t

I never implied that.

That is L-2. Do not forget to state L-1 and intent to hammer, if anyone else finds Thesoctor suspicious.

Stating intent to hammer: Yes. Stating intent for L-1: No. Hammering is final. L-1 is not. And if anybody quickhammers, I will policy lynch them tomorrow.

[Bulbazak]

I don't really want an avatar; it's just that other people's can mess me up .

I really do suggest you get an avatar. It helps players to easily identify the author of a post when reading.

The things you denied saying are said in those 4 posts. Lynch all liars?

Point out where I said or implied that you posted BEFORE JarJar.

how do i put an image in my post

If you go to "Preview Post", you'll see a button that says "img". Put the image link in there.

[Bulbazak]

Care to share your opinion on anything else?

I've been commenting on other things as well. Haven't you been paying attention?

How do you feel about the current vote leader?

Scum.

[Bulbazak]

My point is that your attack stemmed from his vote on you. I don't think you would have attacked me for that statement if JarJar wouldn't have copied my joke reasoning for his own random vote.

[Bulbazak]

Considering i posted without reference to jarjar why would you think it was a response to him?

I've been playing over a year on another mafia site. Probably around 10 or so games.


I'll

vote Hopkirk

cause if one of the helpers is bound to be scum then one us is guaranteed to voting for mafia.

This is untrue. There is an equal chance any player can be scum and that's not affected by ic/se/newbie.

Bul want to explain why you want to trick the newbies?

When they talk about consistency, they don't mean lying about the same thing over and over again. Especially when you are caught every single time.

[Bulbazak]

Ok so I've played a bunch on another site but haven't followed any games here. Is this an actual school of thought on this site? That people should hold their reads back because it helps scum choose their NK?

Yes, although not everyone shares that opinion. Typically, I give an updated reads list at the start of the day, barring that nothing happened that completely fried my reads or that I feel is more important of pursue.

[Bulbazak]

Also “And also, if it can help scum choose their NK, it can also help people w/ protection roles choose their targets.” Both protectors having mafia roleblocker in their column. It sounds like a slip kind of as it sonds like he knows there is a protector.

There's also setups featuring protectors and no roleblockers. This is quite a leap to make.

The scumslip is you’d only know it’s a fact if you were scum. Since you’re saying it that way you’re either doc/jailkeeper or scum.

Why would you even say this as town?

[Bulbazak]

Because the both setups with roleblocker have protect, sounds like he was 100% sure there was one.
Why did you bring it up after i said it didn't matter?

Because it was an awfully big oversight. Plus there was the fact there was another way he could be certain, which you seemed aware of, and yet you went ahead and confronted him anyway. The town reaction would have been to keep your mouth closed, and if it was still a big point against him d2 or d3, bring it up then.

And for those who aren't voting thesoctor, why is whoever you are voting for scummier than thesoctor?

Because Hopkirk reacted like scum caught for the wrong reason. It's a fairly reliable reaction, and I'm going to continue to push him on it.

I think both Bulba and Hopkirk are scummy because if they were town they would be contributing to our scum hunt.

I've felt I've been contributing fairly well.

All they have been doing for 4 pages is just arguing about some dumb RVS vote.

Actually, it's a fairly important matter. Yes, Hopkirk freaked out over an RVS vote, but it was the way it was done that is telling. Instead of OMGUSing, which might be somewhat expected (and is not always scummy), he instead accused me of cheating. Keep in mind this is a wildly unsubstantiated statement, and the mere implication should be enough to make any town SE think twice before accusing the IC of such a thing. However, Hopkirk goes at this in full force. Why? Because he felt as if he had been caught early for the wrong reasons, and, quite frankly, bad reasons, so he flips out and flails around trying to discredit everything having to do with the vote on him. Like I said, that reaction is telling, because the town reaction would be to laugh off his vote on him somehow, like Majiffy did in the previous game I IC'd in, or to OMGUS JarJar. A normal reaction

is not

to attack the IC over a joke because someone voted him. That's a scum reaction.

Honestly, I really don't understand why Hopkirk is seen as the scummier of the two between him and Bulb.

I currently thing that Bulba is scummier than Hopkirk.

Why?

[Bulbazak]

"Because it was an awfully big oversight."
No you just aren't reading what i said. Anything with roleblocker in it also has a protect role. If he was scum he must know there's a scum roleblocker thus a protector.

And again, this is quite a leap to make, as there are other explanations.

Uh no, i pushed you on it and you kept ignoring my questions which is pretty scummy imo.

What questions am I ignoring. I've addressed everything you've said.

"he instead accused me of cheating" and i never said this so quit the misrep.

When you said I was trying to mislead players, you were accusing me of abusing my position as IC. This is in defiance to the guidelines I am forced to play to in this position (you know the ones in the article I linked to?). Ergo, you were accusing me of cheating.

"A normal reaction is not to attack the IC over a joke"
And yet you never bothered to say it was a joke at the start when i asked why you said it. Changing reasons again i see.

RVS vote = non-serious reasoning. Or are you really telling me that you're a helper monkey, maybe one with a nice red hat on your head?

I find Bulba to be more scummy because Bulba has the most experience out of all of us

So Burden of Proficiency (Saying someone should be lynched because they're experienced and more likely to be dangerous if scum, even though the inverse is true if they're town.).

yet he really only responds to things that are directly related to him.

Not true. I've made inquiries outside posts related to me. Most recently, I pushed Soctor on his self-consciousness in regards to his pushing a wagon.

Bulba really hasn't added a lot to the game.

So you've gotten nothing useful from my interactions and questions?

P-edit: How so?

[Bulbazak]

I'm not even going to bother responding to Bulba at this point. His paraphrasing and taking parts of statements that I've made to create a different, easier argument to defend against. He's not reading my posts and he's trying to make me look scummy by responding to only fragments of a single argument. His posts are based around making himself look more like town and making others look more like scum rather than actually trying to find scum.

How am I paraphrasing? I'm addressing you pretty directly. Would you rather me quote whole posts, where most of it does not pertain to what I'm responding to? Or would you rather me be direct and to the point? The mere fact that I know what I'm responding to, and I am responding to your arguments, shows that I am reading what you are saying. Why don't you want to interact with me? That's the very basis of scumhunting.

When I asked bulb about you his one word response was "scum". Yet he hasn't voted for you.

I'd rather vote my other scumread: Hopkirk. Bet you didn't know you could have more than one, huh?

The fact that you're a vote from being hammered and he isn't discussing it @ all is odd.

Last I checked, he was at L-2

Also what does l-1 mean? Can I get lynched before the day is even up?

If a majority is reached before deadline, then the day automatically ends.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba, you cut a sentence in half, changed the meaning completely, and then responded to it.

And I responded to both parts, because there were 2 inherent arguments: Burden of Proficiency and "Bulba is only responding to posts that talk about him.", which is untrue.

Soctor is indeed at L-1. The three votes counted in the vote count provided by the mod, and Hopkirk's vote.

Hopkirk unvoted.

[Bulbazak]

While we're at it, could you link the post where Hopkirk unvoted? I could have sworn I saw him just recently change his vote to Soctor and leave it on Soctor.

Sorry, I must have misread it.

If you'd prefer, I'll just rephrase my argument.

Even though you are the most experienced player, and thus, the player who should be able to provide the most information, you choose not to provide information unless it's directly related to you.

I already answered this question in that post you are complaining about: I have not been providing information only when it's directed at me, which you would see if you looked through my ISO. Why do you want me to answer your question in one big paragraph, instead of 2 pinpointed sentences?

[Bulbazak]

Yeah that seems kinda shady.

Fake hammers are actually a pretty good reaction test. You're going to see it a lot more often outside Newbie games.

And are we even allowed to post after someone is hammered? I thought we had to stay silent.

We are allowed to continue posting in twilight, unless the mod has made a rule stating otherwise, which he has not in this case.

What do you guys say to a questionnaire for everyone to respond to? If yes, I'll take question suggestions, though no fishing for PT roles is allowed, for obvious reasons :V.

Why do you need our permission to ask questions?

[Bulbazak]

Actually, you should only claim if you are at L-1 and intent to hammer has been given. This way, PRs can try to keep their role hidden for as long as possible. Anybody who says otherwise is horribly anti-town.

[Bulbazak]

I think we should seriously discuss a lurker lynch. catboi and Docthorr have 8 posts each. Pretty much every other player in the game has more than them combined.

Activity is not alignment indicative. Do you no longer believe Soctor is scum?

We need to seriously consider lynching one of them because if either (or both) of them is scum then they have no reason to post anything @ this point. Like why would scum ever post unless they were forced to?

I've found that lurking doesn't tend to work as a scum strategy, as it starts to become obvious as the game progresses. Overall, activity tends to be null as a tell. I, for example, would get awfully bored if I purposefully lurked, as that would defeat the entire purpose of playing the game.

Honestly, I still feel like you're holding back on information and opinions. You're supposed to be the strongest player in this game, but you don't seem to be acting like it beyond your ability to deflect questions.

I may very well be holding back on information and opinions, but if I am, it's because I don't think it's best to disclose them just yet. Also, me being an IC just means I have at least 5 games worth of experience and am willing to try to teach you how to play. That does not necessarily mean I'm the strongest player in the game, although it probably means that I shouldn't expect to live to see the end of it.

I want you to answer "my question" in one big paragraph rather than two "pinpointed sentences" because it is a paragraph.

Ok.

I find Bulba to be more scummy because Bulba has the most experience out of all of us, yet he really only responds to things that are directly related to him.

First, your case relies on a Burden of Proficiency argument, which is based on me being scummy based on my experience. Second, the overall sentiment that I have been only responding to things directly related to me is not true. A decent reading of my ISO would tell you that.

Happy now? I essentially said the same thing in paragraph form.

Lynching lurkers is a fantastic idea, but not if we have people who others feel they have valid reasoning against. Lynching lurkers also requires that we have lurkers. While we do have a few people who are low on post count, I don't really think anyone is lurking, my opinion of that might change Day 2 though. In our current situation, I don't think that lynching lurkers is a good idea.

So, lynching lurkers is a fantastic idea, but we shouldn't do it because it's a bad idea?

I don't love bulbazak this game, it feels like he's faded after his initial tunnel on hopkirk and hasn't been keeping pace with the thread since then, while tunneling might be more of a playstyle thing for him, I'm not seeing him make a real effort to convince people, at this point he's parking his vote and not doing much else, despite keeping up with posts, they feel mostly empty in terms of content. lean toward scum here.

So you noticed that I've not been keeping pace with the thread and have seem distracted. Did you ever think RL issues might be involved, and that I might naturally be tired and distracted right now? I'll be honest, there are days where I don't feel like playing at all, and I feel worn out most of the time atm. It should get better once I'm not performing every night, but I fail to see how my activity or my apathy is indicative of scum.

I also don't like LTO's list of questions, and I won't be answering them. They're not framed as a means to help him scumhunt, but rather for him to get a feel for what the thought process of the town is and to look important. Those are all questions that would be useful for a scum team to know going into the night phase. I'd vote him, but there's something else I noticed holding me back, and I'd rather keep it close to my chest for now.

Also, Hopkirk, quit making me like you.

Unvote

Vote Thesoctorisin

[Bulbazak]

You don't edit your posts. It's to prevent people from cheating. If you need to make a correction, you do so in another post, generally using EBWOP (Edit by way of post).

[Bulbazak]

@LTO: Check out the sample mafia role PMs. The Mafia had access to their QT during pregame. This tends to be the case in almost all games. Also, absent players are rarely modkilled. Typically they're replaced.

[Bulbazak]

Maybe jarjar or faries

I don't think either of them are scum. You're going to have to explain that one.

Well then if I'm ever scum, I guess I'll just never post and autowin.

Or you'll be replaced when you don't pick up your prod or policy or compromise lynched.

I'm not that crazy about a thesoctor lynch anymore. Not sure how it works on this site but I feel like scum about to get lynched will fakeclaim a PR the majority of the time to try and draw out a counter. Him claiming VT makes him less likely to be scum IMO.

A PR claim is also very risky and puts the entire team in jeopardy. VT is a very safe claim. Heck, most of the time I claim VT as scum.

Explain what information the Mafia would glean from this that Town wouldn't, and how it would be used?

Where town is focusing atm. Who would be the best NK. Possibly who the PRs are (this is less likely, but you never know). If town is suspecting one of them for either distancing or buddying, then they know to change their play. As I said, the questions are a road map for scum to understand the town's current mindset.

Why did you focus on Docthorr when I essentially said the same thing?

[Bulbazak]

I'm not that crazy about a thesoctor lynch anymore. Not sure how it works on this site but I feel like scum about to get lynched will fakeclaim a PR the majority of the time to try and draw out a counter. Him claiming VT makes him less likely to be scum IMO.

A PR claim is also very risky and puts the entire team in jeopardy. VT is a very safe claim. Heck, most of the time I claim VT as scum.

Not following how it puts the entire team in jeopardy. Plus it's not risky for them if they're almost surely gonna get lynched anyway.

I guess it really depends on what the setup is, but PR fake claims tend to be dicey. With only 2 players on the scum team, being 1 down d1 means that the other partner has to play exceedingly well in order to win, which means making every kill count. Chances are that scum player will be outplayed via PoE since this a semi-open setup.

[Bulbazak]

Typically, you should only claim if at L-1 and intent to hammer has been given. If anyone wants to give intent, you probably want to say so in bold.

[Bulbazak]

If no one hammers before I get ready to leave around 6:30, I will.

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

Vote LessThanOriginal

Soctor, I really dislike that posturing.

[Bulbazak]

Hammering after 2 people already posted intent to hammer doesn't exactly make him look great.

If no one hammers before I get ready to leave around 6:30, I will.

Yes, because I gave no indication that I would hammer close to deadline...

He clearly did not want to lynch original.

While I did not like his questions (which were very scummy, btw), I also thought I saw indications that he might be a cop, and I normally don't like outing PRs, let alone lynching them.

ANd this post:

Unvote

Vote LessThanOriginal

Soctor, I really dislike that posturing.

Looks alot like he's trying to set up thesoctor for postflip.

I did not like this post:

Are you supposed to discuss when you want to hammer? because I am ready now but I'm not sure if I should ask first since this affects us all.

Did you? It feels too appeasing to me.

What's everyone else thinging?

I think I saw evidence of private communication between Original and Soctor, so I want to explore there.

I still think that Bulba is scum. I guess I was wrong with both Number One and with <original, but I still think Bulba is scum.

Is there a reason, or did you just think I was a good place to tunnel?

I'm still confused as to why the remaining mafia member killed Number One. Was someone trying to frame me? Was it random? Was it because of something Number One said? Misdirection somehow? Any way, we should still look into what Number One said, especially in his last moments.

NKA (Night Kill Analysis) tends to be a lot of WIFOM (Wine in Front of Me), especially at this point in the game. The fact is we have no clue why One was killed, and until we have more information, it doesn't do any good to speculate on it.

But I won't vote right now.

Why not?

Also, as much as I hate to admit it, Hopkirk is probably town.

Vote Thesoctorisin

[Bulbazak]

Yeah, you made that post after 2 other people indicated intent to hammer. You get no credit for the lynch.

I think trying to get credit for a lynch is stupid, and perhaps even scummy. The only reason I stated intent when I did and then hammered, was because Hopkirk and Soctor seemed to be dragging their feet, Original was not that strong of a PR read to derail a lynch, and I didn't want the day to end in a no lynch.

Meh, you think a cop is really gonna straight u ask who people think should be investigated?

Those questions showed that Original was not really a great mafia player to begin with, so I wasn't discounting the possibility.

[Bulbazak]

An off note, what is your ava, Bulba?

Artemis Fowl.

[Bulbazak]

Oh! That might explain it a little bit. I haven't actually read the books, but I do know that Artemis is a little brat. ;p Well, at least, that's how I was told he was like.

To be honest, I haven't read the books either (I probably should.). In a previous game, Maestro said that I always looked as calm as Artemis Fowl to him, and I changed my avatar as a joke. I liked it, so I kept it.

Also, you've mentioned "posturing" at least three times now, I'm guessing that you've missed the two questions asking what that is, so while it's quiet, could you explain what posturing is?

It's a weak preparation to push somebody or an agenda. I emphasize the weak part, because normally they'll have been wishy washy on the subject or have posted no opinion on it. It's normally pretty scummy, because it tends to be a strategic move, rather than one spurred by scumhunting. That's my interpretation of the term, anyway.

I did have the original vote on LTO

So?

Meh, you think a cop is really gonna straight u ask who people think should be investigated?

Those questions showed that Original was not really a great mafia player to begin with, so I wasn't discounting the possibility.

What about the questions made you think she wasn't a great mafia player ?

They were just too blatant. No experienced player would ask questions like that due to how easily they give scum information to help guide night actions. As I noted originally, the questions essentially screamed newb scum.

Would anyone keep a vote on a scumbuddy for so long? And let it end in a lynch?
This just seems bad mafia play, imo.

Bussing. It's a thing.

And since I'm at L-1, and I'm most likely going to be lynched Im going to do some scum hunting

I believe that hopkirk is the town cop so that means there's a fifty% chance there's a doctor. If there is one they need to protect hopkirk tonight. They obviously didn't protect him last night since number 1 died.

This is scum posting. There is no way dying town says "Btw, I think these people are the PRs.", as that would be playing against their wincon by telling scum where to shoot. However, the last scum about to die might do so, mostly to troll, but also in the hopes that people would unvote them thinking scum would not state something that stupid. There's literally no town motivation to post this or the rest of the post at all.

^^^ Oh, nevermind, not quite. The mod chooses either a column or a row, so the information that the mafia can get from the setup is more limited than I thought.

Scum can still narrow down the setups fairly well, and they're also more informed than the town.

[Bulbazak]

I actually think Soctor is just trolling.

[Bulbazak]

If he's caught, mainly just to mess with us. He knows the game is pretty much over anyway.

[Bulbazak]

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of my play (it was bad, but not for the reasons you guys are saying imo), but eh. Good luck, all.

Doc, if you're in

, you know who to protect ^^.

Why isn't Soctor dead yet?

[Bulbazak]

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of my play (it was bad, but not for the reasons you guys are saying imo), but eh. Good luck, all.

Doc, if you're in

, you know who to protect ^^.

Why isn't Soctor dead yet?

What r u implying here?

I'm saying that Less communicated with his partner before he went. Gut says he told Thesoctorisin who to roleblock, which makes sense, since Soctor has called Hopkirk (the one above Less's message) the cop.

[Bulbazak]

How would <original be able to communicate with his parter? Can scum communicate during the day?

I'm not talking about QT communication. I'm talking about Original putting information in his final posts intended for his partner that he knew only his partner would understand. It's the same concept as table talking in a card game. If done well, nobody else will catch on.

[Bulbazak]

@Bulba: In a post prior to your last, you explained why you thought <ori was a bad mafia player, now, you that <ori was strong enough to work with a tactic that seems advanced and is probably super hard to pull off (requiring a strong mafia player). Seems contradictory to me, doesn't it? I feel it's one way or the other.

I didn't think she was bad enough to not try communicating with her partner before she died. And common sense indicates that any such communication would not be completely obvious. And she definitely wasn't good enough for the communication not to go unnoticed. So no, I don't think the two are contradictory at all.

Although, having now played with her in a marathon game where she was conf. town and horrible, I now have to wonder if I read too much into that post.

[Bulbazak]

Docthorr is sounding weird.

Explain.

[Bulbazak]

Do you think the Soctor wagon might be a mistake?

[Bulbazak]

Can somebody post the Dead and Scum QTs? I'll give my final thoughts later today.

[Bulbazak]

Let's start with the SEs:

Catboi: You need to be more active. You really didn't leave much of an impression in this game.

Hopkirk: There's a fine line between paranoia and accusing someone of cheating. I've flirted with that line once before with Mastin, and I regret voicing those concerns. You, however, were more direct, and where I expressed paranoia, you accused me of downright cheating. Maybe it's because you haven't been put in the same situation as an IC yet, but this position holds certain responsibilities and expectations. Simply put, I am forbidden to lie to Newbies about mafia theory, especially to get an advantage. Having played as both an SE and an IC, I'll let you know that the SE job is easier, because you can play as a normal player. As an IC, however, I hold the dual role of teacher, and that has to take priority in all things. Yes, I have to play to win, but that does not override my responsibility to teach newer players how to play the game. If I was taking advantage of the new players, it would have been the mod that would have taken care of that situation, and I can tell you that the penalties would likely be harsh. I take my position as IC very seriously, and you should be very careful before you accuse someone else in my position of cheating again.

Now for the newer players:

Docthorr/Number_0ne: Maybe this has to do with the game, and how we caught on to the scum team quickly, but I honestly can't remember a thing about your play. I remember getting townreads of you both rather quickly, which is good, but other than that, the game didn't last long enough to pin down the particulars of your play. I hope we can play together again in the future, and that hopefully I can be of more use to you then.

JarJarDrinks: You're an incredibly strong town player. Not only were you obv. town fairly early in the game, but you were also the driving influence in getting scum lynched. Keep this up, and you'll probably be known as an incredible scumhunter.

I Love Fairies: I think your only weakness was that you were too paranoid. Don't get me wrong, paranoia can help you, but it blinded you this game and kept you from being as effective as you could. You're a strong player. You just need to work out the quirks and weaknesses of your play to get stronger.

LessThanOriginal: You need to be proactive, which is why everyone latched onto you as scum. Your questionnaire was horrendous, and it was incredibly obvious that you were scum rolefishing because of it. You don't want town to do the work for you. Instead, you want to look like you're town actually putting effort into the game and analyzing it. Pretend you're scumhunting just like everyone else. If you do so, it will be much harder for town to catch you next time.

Thesoctorisin: Same as Original: Be proactive. You wanted to be appeasing and hoped that would keep town off your back. However, that's what drew us to you in the first place. You didn't scumhunt, and you only pretended to do so when pressured. Those were clear indicators as to your alignment. If you would have been "scumhunting" just like everyone else and wouldn't have been worried about how you looked, you would have likely lasted a bit longer and maybe have gotten off some mislynches.