Newbie 1706: Cocktail party GAME OVER

[SirCakez]

Hi guys!

VOTE: Xisqolemir
Has an unpronouncable name.

[SirCakez]

The purpose of the votes at the start of the game for random reasons is to get the game started. Inevitably in this stage someone will do something to get serious discussion going, could be anything from joining a wagon to just making a scummy post. See the below article for more info.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Random_Vote

[SirCakez]

How much overall mafia experience does everyone have, and how much on this site?

I just finished my first game overall fairly recently.

I have probably at least 50+ Forum Mafia games completed, a mix of games here and off site.

Xisqo - do you think Jae's approval seeking could have come from town?

[SirCakez]

Xisqo - do you think Jae's approval seeking could have come from town?

That is certainly possible. I don't feel he's getting near confscum yet.

All right sounded like you were over-sure of yourself

Laser and Lucas, why not put a new vote down when you unvoted? Your vote is your biggest weapon, you should be using it to pressure someone.

[SirCakez]

Laser and Lucas, why not put a new vote down when you unvoted? Your vote is your biggest weapon, you should be using it to pressure someone.

Because if everyone is doing a random vote, everyone knows that they are doing it for no particular reason. We still really aren't out of the RVS (half us are in, half are out).

With that logic, anyone I try to vote wouldn't and shouldn't be affected. It's not like I outted a read yet. They would know it's a pressuring technique without any real substance and be able to react normally. As maf or town. It's not alignment telling.

Heck, I could be at L-1 right now and not care. I know I'm not getting hammered unless someone actually brings up any evidence.

Right now, the only thing we have is the debate on Jae's approval seeking for anyone (which by the way, think she reacted pretty good on. Didn't really find it scummy to begin with). We literally have a person who took 2 days to get here just to basically say he wasn't dead. We have another 2 who voted on the first day and haven't shown up since. With little to go on, a vote here would be useless because anyone I vote will know it's not a real read.


To conclude- The RVS definition was a little bit off than I thought. You guys actually try to formulate reads off blind guesses instead of using them to be icebreakers.

This isn't true though.
All reactions are telling, whether they know it's pressure or not. For example, if a scum knows they are being pressured without reason they might try to play it off and ignore it. That can be analyzed.

[SirCakez]

It's the internet, you can fake reactions.

We are playing mafia here, so obviously reactions can be faked. The point is to analyze these reactions and determine if they are fake or not. I think this should be pretty obvious.

VOTE: SirCakez

You asked laser and Lucas why they weren't using their votes to pressure, yet I haven't had my vote on anyone for a while now either. Why did you exclude me?

I missed your unvote actually. I made that post from mobile so I scrolled past it accidentally probably.

Does a random vote really help town at all then? I'm guessing it does not, mostly just used to spur the game into action. Are there any other common ways this is done?

They can, you just have to know what to analyze from them. For example, if you see someone who is unconfident follow someone's else's random vote quickly, then there's a decent chance they could be scum together, or scum looking to hitchhike off town.

Sir, you've asked questions but I don't feel like you even expected to get anything AI from what you asked. What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Currently I have a very strong townread on you. Your level of engagement in the game feels natural and town, and I very rarely see new scum reach the level of content you have created.
I like the big reads wall and analysis Alban just created as well, it shows an eagerness to get into the game that looks like a town perspective.
I currently have two scumreads: tank and Laser. I dislike Laser's dismissal of the power votes hold to get reactions and create pressure, it feels like scum trying to avoid having to push someone. Tank has done very little to push conversation forward or to contribute any content to the table.

VOTE: LaserVP
I think this is a better vote then tank, as I want to see Tank produce some real content to judge him better.

[SirCakez]

Cake

And here we have the one guy with enough balls to vote me. I perfectly understand why. Like I said before, I purposefully tried to be null read so as to not get lynched, but not die in the night. Like Xis, you agree with the RVS. I'm not going to repeat what I think. You all obviously know that. Cake, you and I have actually had pretty much the same exact day. All we talked about was the concept of RVS, with the two of us on different sides of the chart. That brings me to this conclusion

Is my opinion on RVS factor into your vote on me?

. You do claim that I'm trying to prevent pushing on someone. That's fair, cuz I really haven't tried. I still considered the time around my last post to be RVS period. I believe we are out of said period now. Other than the stark difference, up until this point our days were basically the same. Your most recent post still does this. Besides the part where you answered my part about faking reactions (which your answer is weird, you pretend that I don't know anything about mafia and how wifom works, yet somewhat agree and disagree at the same time). I already talked about how I know how to scumread. Yet I still get the title as noob.

Your opinion on RVS was part of the reasoning for my vote, yes. I think you are putting far too much discredence onto the power of votes and it reads like a scum tactic.

Cakez is probably town. Like 70% certainty in a town read there now.

All from one post? I like the analysis you did here but I'm not sure why you have such a strong townread on me mainly from that one post when you know I have a strong scum game.

So you scum read me for being pissed off at what I see as a direct insult to my intelligence.

Oh my God, he showed feelings, mark him as scum. We don't appreciate that here.

If you think I'm scum, show the balls and vote me. If you dont like my "antagonistic" style, vote me.


If you want me to not discredit, insult and theory; stop lying to my face, stop asking about my theory in the first place (I think at this point, you have brought up theory more than I have) and stop pissing me off.
I think we have an understanding.

This is a post I really don't like. Laser is basically telling Jae to stop engaging with him which I have a big problem with as Jae is probably the most active and engaged player in the game. Looks like scum trying to get an aggressive player to back off.

Pretty good post. I disagree with some of your reads, but you explained it very well and clearly. I also think you are looking to scumhunt and can understand your points, even though I disagree with them.

Just one question for you:

1. You said that random votes can be analysed well to get some good things for them. On this game, do you did analysis on the random votes. If yes, what did you find?

Not specifically the random votes here, but Laser's posts regarding RVS were very valuable for me. Sometimes you'll see sheeping or awkwardness in the RVS votes by themselves but not here.

Laser is definitely my top scum read now with how he reacted to Jae's questioning.
Singer now leans scum with Tank, both still have yet to produce serious content. Still waiting on both to contribute more.

[SirCakez]

This is going to be a fun one.
Like I said before, I feel you are one step away from making this blind tunnel then actually reading. That's not enjoyable to any faction of the game. I replaced a guy in my first game who basically stopped having fun for being hard tunneled. He was town. I could vote to pressure you (which I think is something you complained about me not doing), but it's not worth my sanity.

It's nice to know my personal opinions on a subject cause a vote. I literally had to decipher myself what the hell was going on, and I found faults in it. Again, I seem to have the unpopular opinion. Fine.

And then you come to my reaction to Jae. I know what I'm doing most of the time, but the reaction to Jae was more based on taking an argument out on an innocent person on the internet because of real life problems. You don't have to believe a word I say about that. Heck, I said it myself, anyone can fake reactions (I mean, I know how to appeal to the emotions really well).

I can't really knack on you for my read on you because I have done everything you said I did. I can't deny it. The only thing that does trouble me is that you voted me based on my own opinion, which I find a horrible reason. You do have some other reasons though. My follow up question is why does an opinion on a game mechanic contribute that much to a scumread?

It's less your opinion on RVs and more your refusal to do something to pressure anyone else with your vote. Like I could understand you not understanding the purpose of RVS but you just weren't doing anything with your vote which looked to me like an attempt to avoid engaging with others.
I don't think this is a blind tunnel, I have explained my reasoning fairly well in my opinion.

[SirCakez]

Cakez is probably town. Like 70% certainty in a town read there now.

All from one post? I like the analysis you did here but I'm not sure why you have such a strong townread on me mainly from that one post when you know I have a strong scum game.

Kind of? There's a little more to it than the one post, but that definitely made the flip where my paranoia felt like just that - paranoia. Your RVS post felt loose and generally unconcerned with hiding, so on a gut read level I would usually call that townish. I didn't because it's you and I honestly wouldn't put it past you to be able to do that as either alignment. Your 31 showed that you were trying to figure out Xisiq. Granted, it could have been from either alignment and I may just like that it came across as a defense of me, but it felt like you were trying to get a handle on his intent/motivations there which I like for a town!Cakez too.

Your post in response to me was just solid. Your reads were good and showed that you have been scumhunting and imo thinking about the game more than what you had put out there. I could see the thought process you followed to reach your conclusions even if I might not agree with them. I get that you could do this as either alignment if you're good enough, but none of that felt fake, if that makes sense? You didn't make a bs excuse for missing my unvote, which also works in your favour. Though you would probably do that as either alignment anyway.

There's generally a lack of scummy things from you, I think, and enough towny things that I can't really justify even the 70% certainty as opposed to something higher. Or the flat town read instead of "Strong Town" which is where I'll pretty much WK. You're not conftown to me and can't be just yet because I know how strong your scum game is. It's probably frustrating for you but if you're town take it as a compliment. I doubt you'd ever need a newbie to WK you anyways

Honestly the main thing that still bugs me is:

All right sounded like you were over-sure of yourself

I don't know why this rubs me the wrong way but it does. As Xisiq pointed out, the only way he could be sure of anything was with moderator supplied information, so I guess my real problem is the redundancy of this? Or perhaps the dismissive tone I feel I'm picking up? Could you expand on why you felt the need to drop this line?

Oh it looked like your townread on me was born solely of that one post I made, like how you posted about that townread on Lucca earlier for one of his posts that "bled towniness". Elaboration on this helps a lot.
I wanted to follow up on the question because it did have a purpose to it (checking how strong his scumread was for how early it was in the game) and I didn't think I had made it clear in the question when I asked it initially so I wanted to clarify and also acknowledge his answer.

[SirCakez]

Singer now leans scum with Tank, both still have yet to produce serious content.

Why does Singer lean scum? I assume you're not reading her VLA as scummish so did you get something from her posts?

The lack of serious content from her mainly. I understand her V/LA might factor in but she's hardly contributed much reads-wise. I'm waiting for her V/LA to end so I can see if she steps it up.

[SirCakez]

Alban - I noticed you had a slight scumread on Robert for short, small posts that look like prod dodges, while you had Tank as slight town for few posts and trying to figure out what was going on (?). Are your reads on these two still the same?

[SirCakez]

UNVOTE: JaeReed

Cakez is right, this would be a highly unusual postcount and participation rate for any scum D1, let alone newscum.

Ill leave my vote here for the moment.

VOTE: datanksta1213

@JaeReed, Robert E Me

: re: LaserVP - How do you feel about this statement from Laser

Like I said, I'm not teaming you guys, but I scumread you both.

in a setup where there are a known quantity of scum (2)?

It read ok to me. Sort of like "I believe one of you will flip scum."

It could be seen as lining up mislynches, though.

Also, I really dislike the "Cakez is right" thing. I get that you came to your own conclusion and all that but I seem to see scum use the same kind of wording in opens or theme games when I read them and so it rubs me the wrong way.

Cakez, thoughts on the sheeping with wording? Am I off base here?

I read it as not alignment-indicative, since I think it could have come from sheeping scum or just town agreeing with someone else's read. He doesn't have a pattern of sheeping in his ISO or anything as well.

[SirCakez]

Cakez #113

Spoiler:

This is going to be a fun one.
Like I said before, I feel you are one step away from making this blind tunnel then actually reading. That's not enjoyable to any faction of the game. I replaced a guy in my first game who basically stopped having fun for being hard tunneled. He was town. I could vote to pressure you (which I think is something you complained about me not doing), but it's not worth my sanity.

It's nice to know my personal opinions on a subject cause a vote. I literally had to decipher myself what the hell was going on, and I found faults in it. Again, I seem to have the unpopular opinion. Fine.

And then you come to my reaction to Jae. I know what I'm doing most of the time, but the reaction to Jae was more based on taking an argument out on an innocent person on the internet because of real life problems. You don't have to believe a word I say about that. Heck, I said it myself, anyone can fake reactions (I mean, I know how to appeal to the emotions really well).

I can't really knack on you for my read on you because I have done everything you said I did. I can't deny it. The only thing that does trouble me is that you voted me based on my own opinion, which I find a horrible reason. You do have some other reasons though. My follow up question is why does an opinion on a game mechanic contribute that much to a scumread?

It's less your opinion on RVs and more your refusal to do something to pressure anyone else with your vote. Like I could understand you not understanding the purpose of RVS but you just weren't doing anything with your vote which looked to me like an attempt to avoid engaging with others.
I don't think this is a blind tunnel, I have explained my reasoning fairly well in my opinion.

What do you think of Laser saying that he didn't vote you because he didn't want you tunneling he?

That's a part of the post I didn't like, I thought I had mentioned it. As before with Laser, it felt like an excuse to try to disengage and avoid interacting with me while pushing.

[SirCakez]

Aside from the whole lack of reads thing, I did a quick re-read of your ISO and did not see you scumhunting at all. All I see is you stating something and asking somebody their thoughts on it and answer questions. Asking somebody their thoughts, I have no issue with that, but you don't expand on the answers most of the time. Also, your readlist is very very easy, as you are only scumreading both players that aren't here.

I question for you, Jae: Can you point to parts of game where you scumhunt someone?

This is notable for me. I just checked her early ISO and I found several examples of scumhunting attempts (vote on me for the missing her unvote, vote on tank). Where is this "not scumhunting at all" thing coming from?

[SirCakez]

Alban - I noticed you had a slight scumread on Robert for short, small posts that look like prod dodges, while you had Tank as slight town for few posts and trying to figure out what was going on (?). Are your reads on these two still the same?

No change. Both of them haven't posted a single post apart from that one reply from Robert, and so no change in the reads on them. I will be changing my vote though, by the end of tonight from Robert. The vote did what it was supposed to do, elicited a reply from him, and I don't think it's gonna do much more than that.

This is very questionable. Tank has done nothing since that readslist, while Robert at least bothered to reply to you, and your reads on both remain the same. Especially your townread on Tank feels very bizarre. I don't see how anyone can have a townread on him at this point with how little he's done.

[SirCakez]

Sorry guys I'll get to this game tomorrow. I've been stuck on mobile all day and will be through tomorrow afternoon so hard to write long posts.

[SirCakez]

Catching up on this now!

[SirCakez]

-snip-
alban sounds like scum who's caught for the wrong reasons, to me. The chainsaw was questionable but the attack on me is downright head-scratching. He's reaching pretty hard. I'm fine with my vote where it is, on data, but if he flips scum then I'm even more sure now that alban's his partner.

I really liked this big post from Jae. Correctly deconstructed Alban's case on her while also coming to the same conclusion I am of alban being scum caught for the wrong reasons. I'm probably going to vote Alban after my catchup ends.

Nice to see you, singer. Your first question I answered, and I think you picked that up but forgot you asked it since it quoted was in one of the things you quoted (the lucca 35) I was aware. Was trying to get a reaction with the L2. The joke got reacted on instead, lol.

Ah, I see that! Ok. Makes sense then.

The rest will have to wait until tomorrow but I can already tell there's ACTIVE versus INACTIVE. Let's find a nice balance so no one gets overshadowed due to inactivity or glossed over due to spamming!

Also I am specifically not moving my vote but it is no longer an RVS vote.

Singer's catchup was ok, a lot of fluff, but better then other slots in the game.
Can we get some reads from you Singer?

@alban and Lucca- both of you have the same interesting point about Jae. How Jae's reads were flipping really bad. I have to agree here.

@Cakez- You don't seem to get my biggest concern with you. The problem is that you seem town, but your vote isn't going to let up anytime soon. I'm not afraid of you voting me. I'm seeing a pattern that is going to eventually lead to blind tunnel. By the end of this day, you will be on my ass and no one else's. The progression of your posts makes me fear that you will. I'm just going to say that I led a tunnel that ended up being completely blind by the end of day 1. I ended up being framed by the maf on Day 3, and getting lynched pretty easily. (I also thought it was auto win, but I forgot there was a role blocker). I do think you are town. It would suck to have 2 towns lynched because of your current fate of tunneling the living daylights out of me.
Maybe if you were as analytical as everyone else's posts that you are with mine, I wouldn't even be concerned. The problem is that every post I do is currently dissected by you.

I agree that Jae's reads were flipping a lot but I don't think it was scum flipping. It looked analytical and in response to posts, not something like, "He made a wall, townread!".
I don't think I'm exclusively tunneling you. I've expressed scumreads on others, I'm analyzing other's posts, and I'm going to vote Alban soon. This feels like a strawman, making yourself to be the victim.

I have a mild desire to lynch singer now.

Why? This is so vague.

[SirCakez]

Wow, those posts are longer than I thought they would be. I'm about halfway through (my computer kept being slow).
Right now, I think that Jae is strong town and Robert is fairly strong town. Cakez and singer are weaker town. I'm getting mixed signals on lucca, and alban and Xisi are my strongest mafia reads. Alban's catching up post in particular felt very surface-level and like it was only appearing to try to catch mafia, rather than actually reading into people's posts.
I originally thought Laser was mafia, but that may be just how he plays, so I may reevaluate that.
I'll give my updated thoughts when I finish reading.

Why is Xi a top mafia read, Robert strong town and why is Lucca mixed? In particular Robert has contributed very very little, so I'm not sure why he'd be a strong townread for you.

UNVOTE:

I'll get to this later but long story short I can dig an alban wagon and I wanna give the replacement some consideration.

Vox, can you explain the scumread on Xisi for me?

Xis, can you explain the desire for a singer lynch for me?

And this basically mirrored things I just wanted to know lol

As I said, that is one of my weaker reads. She seems to be making an effort to be open and honest about everything she says, which in general makes her motivation more apparent. She's asked good questions and her comments make logical sense, which implies that they're more likely to be real.

This is quite vague. I could say these things about a lot of people pretty easily. Can you provide specific examples of these "good questions and logical comments"?

You too, Data's replacement? I thought you would show some allegiance to me for having your predecessor's back there

Just so everyone remembers, if Data flipped scum I would be his partner for sure, said Jae repeatedly before Data got replaced (at least someone remembered to ask about that in 158).

But now the replacement suspects me and all is well. "He cleaned up the slot rather nicely" is what Jae says. Some explanation? No. Vote gets transferred from Data to me. Earlier suspicions on Data's slot notwithstanding. Do any of you, who suspected Data before, remember why you did so? You had no clue then, and I am guessing you have no clue now. You are shooting in dark. Along comes 69 and hurraay you found your target.

I can see how this ends. On my eventual lynching, when you learn that I flip town, those of you who are suspecting me will need to justify and will have a justification ready. You will send another barrage of verbose posts implying how I deserved getting lynched for writing an apparently scummy post, but never admitting that your heads were buried so deep in your asses that all you could smell were your own confusions. You are entering a tunnel, townies. Good luck with that!

I have very limited time, so I am not gonna spend it defending my alignment. I am not resigned. I don't care what you think of me. Someone said before, I guess Lucca, that not caring is anti-town. No, it's not. Not caring doesn't mean not caring about the game. I know who I am. You don't. So, you guys figure it out. And hey, if I am so bad, it's better to lynch me and get rid of me, right? So in any case, it's not an anti-town behaviour. It will help you eventually.

In the meanwhile, I will check for inconsistencies in people's behaviour based on their experience

This post is really awful.
He's basically OMGUSing at Jae here while avoiding several points as to why he's being scumread, among them his bizarre reads on the Tank slot and Robert which have yet to be explained from what I've seen.
Then he says he doesn't care and doesn't want to defend himself.

VOTE: Alban

This is L-1

[SirCakez]

Alban, there's something missing from your posts.
Who do you think is scum?

Can't you see my vote? Or you hear only god's voice?

It's not important but since you find something missing in my posts, I would advise you to read them carefully. You are tunnelling.

For example, you are incorrect in inferring in 152 that my vote is an admission of some sort. It's not. It means that Jae's contribution to the game is useless regardless of their alignment. And if Jae is lynched and turns out to be city (if being the operative word), it wouldn't make that big a difference to the game.

I would also like you to read Jae's posts carefully. For example, read recent posts 149, 151, 153, 155, 160 where he interacts with you. What do you think? Or go back and start reading from wherever you want. Look at the pattern. He has zero reads. Read 87. Vomit worthy. Blah. Jae's style is to question, gather intel, post it as their own in future.

I also want you to think about Jae's reads on your predecessor, and the circumstances under which he was pushing Data. Makes no sense. But did he start that wagon? Was he alone or the first one in suspecting Data? No. There have already been people talking about Data. He just pushed it hard. With me, he was fine to the extent of clearing me (partially) and then asking me for my opinion. I think he thought it will be looked as positive. Didn't work out that way. Jae picked it up immediately. And pushing it with all their might. That's the overall style. Take something that some people have already thought and push it. This is why the statement: the city won't lose much by lynching Jae.

This is more scummy posting. Jae, Jae, Jae. Can you talk about anyone else? You are at L-1, there are three other people voting you besides Jae. Why are you avoiding talking about anyone else other then Jae?

So you did give a bit of an explanation for your read on Jae, using reasons that are not indicative of scum or are inaccurate (plus, most of them apply to you as well). You interspersed these serious reasons with a sarcastic comment about the pronoun argument (which I don't know why you are still having) and your terrible comment "the town will not lose anything substantial if we lose you", which is wrong because we would lose a chance to lynch mafia if we lynch Jae and they're town. Aside from that, though, I'm interested to hear: what in that statement didn't totally assume Jae was town?

Jae is not at all useless (and the fact that you say "regardless of their alignment" is also bad). To say they have no reads is false.

What do I think? I think they are asking me questions about my reads to try to find my alignment, as opposed to you, who are merely being defensive and restating what people have said and done.

Now I do agree Jae's push on Data was bad, but I don't think it was scum bad. I think they thought that Data was purposely dodging the game when most likely he just forgot about it. More unsettling is you calling Data town when he really didn't do anything to deserve it. Why did you defend Data?

I like this post from Vox, the first real thing I've seen to start developing a townread on that slot. I think scum here would push just that "oh Jae's Data push was bad" without actually looking at the motivations behind it. It's the kind of analytical thinking town makes. I very much like his push on Alban here as well, such as the "reasons not indicative of scum" argument.

All caught up
So Alban is now a scumread with Laser, Robert is down to a scum lean for not producing any content, Singer and Vox can move up to a town lean. Lucca and Jae remain fairly strong townreads, and Xi is null.

[SirCakez]

Just for an example. The vote on you for missing the unvote didn't come with an analysis, it was just: Hey, he didn't noticed me. The vote on tank even Jae said that was P-O-E, that is not scumhunting.

Ok I can see this as lacking analysis but I wouldn't call it a complete lack of scumhunting.

VOTE: Alban

This is L-1

@SirCakez

: No claim demand? No request for hammers?

Why would I request a claim or hammer? There's still time and I want alban to respond to my posts.
(what's up with people reading Large Themes I was in O.o)

[SirCakez]

Oh god the Urgh tell. That was something else.

[SirCakez]

Catching up again this afternoon sorry

[SirCakez]

So what I wanted to note with the Singer posting IC spiel quote was that Singer did say in 20 I believe, that they would be looking up their old IC post so it likely wasn't because you mentioned it, Jae.

I want a tank lynch at this stage. He's new and new scum I feel is more likely to lurk because they don't know what to do unless they had an experienced person direct them before the game. I don't think his potential partner would give him advice such as "post as much as possible and i can spin it as town" such as Nacho did with kage in my last game. I do have an idea on a partner if he does flip, but regardless I think the slot has been trying to hide.

Everyone else... Thoughts on that previous paragraph? Especially Robert since your RVS vote is still on him.

Agreed at that point in the game. The lurking was definitely scummy and unhelpful for town. However, I find that Vox has done a nice job so far.

@JaeReed, Robert E Me

: re: LaserVP - How do you feel about this statement from Laser

Like I said, I'm not teaming you guys, but I scumread you both.

in a setup where there are a known quantity of scum (2)?

I am fine with this comment. Yes, I know there are only 2 scum in the game but there's of course uncertainty about who the scum are so multiple scumreads without teaming them are totally fine.

@lucca - what I'm doing is essentially townhunting. I don't expect scum to make major slips, but those I find least townie are those I find most suspicious by process of elimination.

Singer is closest to true null for me. I can't pressure her when she is quite literally not here. I don't know what you'd expect from that other than the game stalling.

tank is on the scummy side because I feel he's quiet and coasting. His first post leaves a lot to be desired too. Basically, he seems to be trying to look like he's in the game while hiding out. I don't see your point with the daytalk. I meant pre-game. Nacho told kage to post as much as possible as he could spin anything he posted into a town motivation if he did so in the pre-game of my first newbie.

I went into the alban thing while you were posting. I will say now since alban has posted that Xisiq, I'm looking at the possibility of alban being tank's partner if tank flips scum. His read on the slot was the most out of place I found so far, with the most reachy explanation. Of course, if tank is town then that's a moot point.

Me boiling it down to tank was not easy in the slightest. I had to clear Cakez, I had to clear you, I had to clear Xisiq. I had to interact with you, Cakez, Xisiq, Laser to try to get a feel.

Never lynching in this: lucca, Cakez, Robert
Not lynching in this today: Xisiq
If he does more scummy things this will be in my lynch-pile otherwise no: Laser
Need more from her: singer
Feels discredity and inconsistent with an out of place read on tank: alban
Feels like coasting, hiding, newbie scum: tank

Now, either stop throwing shade every which way and just vote me, or help me push through this tank lynch.

Xisiq, now that alban has responded, which is what I was waiting for... My potential pairing if tank flips scum is alban for the out of place read, and the Robert scumread & vote since Robert is voting tank. Obviously, if tank doesn't flip scum then I have to re-evaluate everything and form new reads.

Pedit: nevermind you did vote. Funnily enough I think I addressed your question here anyway.

Why did you not interact (or clear me, like the others) with me yet still manage to put me in your "Never Lynching" pile? As you can tell, others' opinions on me are decidedly more mixed.

In response to alban's post 126, I am *slightly* convinced by it but I still think that Jae is town.

I had a couple other comments to make on posts but they didn't get on here using multi-quote.

So after catching up, my reads are alban scum, LaserVP nulltown, lucca town, Jae town, Vox nulltown, Xisi nullscum, Cakez nulltown, and singer nulltown. I eagerly await alban's future posts.

UNVOTE

This is a pretty underwhelming catchup considering how long Robert has been gone. He responded to all of three posts then put out some reads and called it a day.
Can you explain your reads more, specifically your nulltown on Laser and nullscum on Xisi?

Usually I like to talk about everything that happened since my last post. But I need to keep it brief tonight due to my schedule. One of those "I'm pretty busy tonight, oh shit I have a literal ton of homework too"

I'm going to just comment on the alban/jae debacle

There seems to be sides at this point.
On the Jae is scum side, you have Alban and Lucca
On the Alban is scum side, you have Jae, Cakez, singer, and Vox
Robert says both are town
Xis completely ignored this

And then you have me. No matter how you look at it, alban is really frustrated right now. That alone cannot make a person town or maf. Yes he is aggressive, but so am I. (singer was affected by unnecessary aggressiveness with me in a simple RVS question, so I'm not surprised she's here).
If I had to pick one to townread, I would pick alban. But like Robert, I dont scumread Jae either. I feel like the best points against the other came from alban and lucca.

Judging from the interactions, I can conclude that Lucca and Alban are not partners. No two maf agree with each other that much. Like I said, not going to detail, but I tr lucca now.

As for possible partner. I dont think its Cake, Jae or Lucca. Im pretty sure its Xis and between the remaining, (singer, vox, robert)...I have no clue tbh. Robert has become null at this point of time.

I will have much more to contribute tomorrow. This was basically here so I don't get replaced.

This is a lot of commentary and very little analysis.
"These people think Jae is scum, these people think Alban is scum"
Ok, what does that mean? It just looks like meaningless content to fill your post with.

[SirCakez]

You all have your pet theories about me. Anything I say seems to fit someone's theory of how I am a scum. It has gone to such a ridiculous level that my usage of the correct pronoun was recently being seen as something that's a deliberate attempt to offend someone. If I reply, it becomes a defensive and frustrated person's reply. If I don't reply, I am apparently intentionally ignoring the question and I am quickly reminded to reply. They should have a new role: the serial offender.

I think the best fitting answer to this witchhunting (coz thats what is going on here..not townhunting, nor scumhunting) will be to get lynched and flip town.

It's not as if I don't have moments of doubts or despair where I look at my skills and tools and try and seek improvement. I also seek social skills to avoid a situation where I keep offending people. But largely, if there's something that I lack or miss, I am not aware of it. I am very content and happy with myself and the way I play this game. There are two kinds of people. Self-pleasers and people-pleasers. I am definitely the former type. I like to think, analyse and then see if my reads have been correct or not. But it seems like people falling in the latter category of people-pleasing do much better. Who seek improvement from others, or who constantly keep adjusting their reads based on what's the strongest opinion of the time. And why not? After all, everyone's a little vain.

Having belief in one's abilities and being satisfied with oneself can result in conflicts. I can't wait for people to give me my due, but just get up and get it myself. And if someone comes in the way of that, or someone keeps telling me to change, it leads to conflict. I don't mind being a fighter. It's my prerogative to be this way and not change my game. If I have my individualistic style of game that's unheard of or has a lot of loopholes, you can have an opinion on that, sure. But to not even be receptive about it or wait to see the results of it, that's being close-minded. If you are allowed to pursue your own game, I should be allowed to pursue mine. The only thing I have been doing since 69 is to reply to comments directed at me as a result of 69 or to comments generated as a result of those replies, rather than use my tools in finding mafia. That's then added to my gamut of lack of capacities; how I don't have a read on anyone else except Jae. How can I? When all I seem to do is running the red queen's race..replying rather than posting. So for my own sake, I am gonna stop replying to your reads, comments and questions from the past. Think of it as a third party alignment, who works best when left to their own devices.

This will be labelled as seeking clearance from your doubts about me. Nope. You are free to do what you want. In fact if you want me to shut up, it's best to reach L and force me to leave, since I am not leaving. I will be very happy to stay coz that means there's some hope (if you do decide to unvote me, don't use it as a currency to remind me that if I don't live upto your expectations, you will re-vote me. It's your decision. Not something that's being forced upon you.) Either way, there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

This is another load of theory and no actual scumhunting. Like ok we get it you don't want to defend yourself, but Alban is still doing 0 scumhunting or pushing at all besides on Jae. I have no clue what his reads are besides on Jae right now.

VOTE: Alban

This is L-1

@SirCakez

: No claim demand? No request for hammers?

Why would I request a claim or hammer? There's still time and I want alban to respond to my posts.

Discussion is pro-town. I feel a lot better about you.

I'm not in love with the wagon though. I feel you and Jae are powerlynching town. I'm also perturbed about my top scumread and a null/scum composing the rest of it.

Any chance I can interest you in a Vox Dei lynch?

(what's up with people reading Large Themes I was in O.o)

That game was highly entertaining. I always enjoy Mollie's presence.

Vox's catchup felt like it was from town eager to get involved. The way he started immediately engaging with Alban and Jae especially. I don't see scum who just replaced in immediately engaging with the top poster and leading wagon, there's far too much potential for it to go wrong especially with how scummy his slot was before. If you want a Vox lynch you're going to have to explain this more.

Looks like I have a few things to respond to.

Spoiler: Okay this got longer than I thought it would

SirCakez's 180:

I explained my Xisi read in 150.

I caught up by reading through the posts and marking each time a player said something I did or didn't like. Lucca had both pluses and minuses. For instance, I didn't like his bashing of Jae's self-meta in 35, thought it sounded awkward and kind of like a discredit. But then I did like his 54, particularly where he rebuffed Xisi for reading him as town for 35. Then 81 is kind of awkward and doesn't really explain that much, but his response to alban in 82 was kind of similar to the way I was thinking about it.

The Robert read was because nothing he said rubbed me the wrong way. His questions in 15, 49, and 71 all felt very natural to me and they struck at some of the things I had been thinking about (like the Jae read and alban's weird SirCakez read).

I can see where you're coming from on these reads much better now. The main thing I had against Robert was his lack of content, so I can see how you could have a townread there ignoring that. However, what do you think about Robert's general evasion of the game?

So now my own thoughts.

Spoiler: Okay so did this :roll:

At first glance I didn't like how SirCakez said "I'm probably going to vote alban when my catchup ends" and then sure enough, he did. It seems to me that scum have to plan out their lies and who they're going to try to lynch, so that this maybe is a hint that SirCakez was always planning to vote alban and he was just looking for a justification coming from his catchup. At the very least it indicates confirmation bias present in said catchup.

Out of curiosity, SirCakez/Jae, what's the Urgh tell?

I was indeed planning to vote Alban during that catchup. The things he said during that catchup are what changed my read on him to scum so strongly. There was probably some weak confirmation bias but note that I had a townread on Alban before, so my read on him wasn't from the perspective of him being scum for the whole duration.

The Urgh tell originates from this game where I was scum in MyLo and had to 1v1 with Persivul to try to mislynch him. At one point Persivul attempted to meta me and (incorrectly) said that I only said "urgh" as scum and then quoted me saying urgh earlier in the game and tried to push me with it. It was pretty ridiculous.

[SirCakez]

@cakez I see you dislike Robert's catch up. What were your thoughts on my 201?

I disagree. There's a lot of asking questions and commentary, but little analysis. Like, he's not doing anything with the questions, and there's no reads or legitimate scumhunting there.

Vox's catchup felt like it was from town eager to get involved. The way he started immediately engaging with Alban and Jae especially. I don't see scum who just replaced in immediately engaging with the top poster and leading wagon, there's far too much potential for it to go wrong especially with how scummy his slot was before. If you want a Vox lynch you're going to have to explain this more.

Xisi, why do you want to lynch me? Is it simply because my predecessor was replaced? As far as I can tell, you have yet to take issue with my play.
Because I'm really getting the feeling that you've decided on your mislynch for today and don't know what to do but continue to indiscriminately and blindly push it.

I do want to address this part before I go, though. Replacement behaviour verges on the immaterial if the slot is already scummy. Flaking is generally scummy, and I do not give replacements slack.

I understand scumreading a slot for having a scummy predecessor, but what I don't get is the fact your read isn't evolving based on Vox's new content. There comes a point where you have to analyze the new slot too.

[SirCakez]

Where are people

[SirCakez]

It was five posts actually

Sure. Am I right in assuming that those are the reads you find out of place?

Let's see, first Laser. I like his analysis and questioning in 73. Then there is the incident with Jae, which I personally put down mostly to external issues and personality rather than scummy behaviour. It is certainly not out of line of his personality in earlier posts. Otherwise, I find his content solid, though he has been lurky as of late (like a certain someone, cough) (he cites business, but of course that could be untrue blah blah blah) (I just realized that being busy is spelt the same way as business, haha).

Then Xisi.

I don't want to pip singer, so I will only make a brief point about this. My personal style of scumhunting is to keep an eye out for the (non)production of pro-town content. By "pro-town content" I mean clear, coherent posts explaining who the scum are and encouraging votes on them. This is hard to consistently feign over the course of a game. Good Town will generally create it, and non-Town will generally create other sorts of content, particularly evasions and equivocations.

He really doesn't seem to live up to his own standards. See post 143: "I have a mild desire to lynch singer now." Also the thing about scumreading two people and not teaming them was weird imo. I also object to his strong push on Vox. "Replacement behaviour verges on the immaterial if the slot is already scummy. Flaking is generally scummy, and I do not give replacements slack." "Verging on the immaterial" seems to me an unreasonable level of confidence in the evidence given by the flaking of data leading to the subsequent failure to substantially update beliefs, especially when he then backs off and says that flaking is only "generally scummy".

Correct
Is the analysis/questioning in that post the only specific thing you have to townread Laser? The rest of it is pretty vague.
The Xisi read makes more sense though.

@SirCakes...in 214 did you feel that laser's post was more or less substantial than alban's entry? You said you initially had a town read on alban but voiced disapproval with laser, so what was the difference you saw?

Which post from alban are you referring to?

@Cakez,
You comment on lack of analysis/scumhunting from following players.

Robert

214, 215, 223

Xi

178, 223

Me

180, 181, 215

Laser

214

Tank

133;

Vox

180 (but you are satisfied with him after that, I gather)

Singer

115, 178

So, half the players have been not scumhunting enough/not analytical enough for you.

Now a question for you. How about an analysis of the players or analysis of the game at the current stage by you? There hasn't been a single overarching umbrella kinda post from you. Not just comments on people's posts. But an overall analysis and a kinda sum up of each of the players. That will be cool.

Various players (Tank, Robert earlier on, Singer earlier on, Laser now) were lurking so yes at various points half the players have not been scumhunting enough for me.
I've done a reads list or two, but I'll put another one down here.

My strong town tier is Jae and Lucca. Jae's level of engagement and pushing feels next to impossible to be from scum. Lucca's analysis/scumhunting has been really strong, for example 121 and 182.
My town leans are Vox and Singer. Vox's slot was pretty gross early on with Tank, but I think he's stepped the slot up. In particular the interactions with Alban felt townie to me. Singer has had consistently quality pushing and questioning after the lurking ended, for example 193.
Xi remains my only null read. Some of his content is questionable, but overall his level of engagement is good. Would like to see an improvement here.
Robert remains nullscum, but he's improving. His catchup was iffy like I said earlier, but if he keeps it up and improves then he might improve.
Alban and Laser are my two main scum reads for reasons I've stated before.
Xi is my

[SirCakez]

It was five posts actually

Sure. Am I right in assuming that those are the reads you find out of place?

Let's see, first Laser. I like his analysis and questioning in 73. Then there is the incident with Jae, which I personally put down mostly to external issues and personality rather than scummy behaviour. It is certainly not out of line of his personality in earlier posts. Otherwise, I find his content solid, though he has been lurky as of late (like a certain someone, cough) (he cites business, but of course that could be untrue blah blah blah) (I just realized that being busy is spelt the same way as business, haha).

Then Xisi.

I don't want to pip singer, so I will only make a brief point about this. My personal style of scumhunting is to keep an eye out for the (non)production of pro-town content. By "pro-town content" I mean clear, coherent posts explaining who the scum are and encouraging votes on them. This is hard to consistently feign over the course of a game. Good Town will generally create it, and non-Town will generally create other sorts of content, particularly evasions and equivocations.

He really doesn't seem to live up to his own standards. See post 143: "I have a mild desire to lynch singer now." Also the thing about scumreading two people and not teaming them was weird imo. I also object to his strong push on Vox. "Replacement behaviour verges on the immaterial if the slot is already scummy. Flaking is generally scummy, and I do not give replacements slack." "Verging on the immaterial" seems to me an unreasonable level of confidence in the evidence given by the flaking of data leading to the subsequent failure to substantially update beliefs, especially when he then backs off and says that flaking is only "generally scummy".

Correct
Is the analysis/questioning in that post the only specific thing you have to townread Laser? The rest of it is pretty vague.
The Xisi read makes more sense though.

@SirCakes...in 214 did you feel that laser's post was more or less substantial than alban's entry? You said you initially had a town read on alban but voiced disapproval with laser, so what was the difference you saw?

Which post from alban are you referring to?

@Cakez,
You comment on lack of analysis/scumhunting from following players.

Robert

214, 215, 223

Xi

178, 223

Me

180, 181, 215

Laser

214

Tank

133;

Vox

180 (but you are satisfied with him after that, I gather)

Singer

115, 178

So, half the players have been not scumhunting enough/not analytical enough for you.

Now a question for you. How about an analysis of the players or analysis of the game at the current stage by you? There hasn't been a single overarching umbrella kinda post from you. Not just comments on people's posts. But an overall analysis and a kinda sum up of each of the players. That will be cool.

Various players (Tank, Robert earlier on, Singer earlier on, Laser now) were lurking so yes at various points half the players have not been scumhunting enough for me.
I've done a reads list or two, but I'll put another one down here.

My strong town tier is Jae and Lucca. Jae's level of engagement and pushing feels next to impossible to be from scum. Lucca's analysis/scumhunting has been really strong, for example 121 and 182.
My town leans are Vox and Singer. Vox's slot was pretty gross early on with Tank, but I think he's stepped the slot up. In particular the interactions with Alban felt townie to me. Singer has had consistently quality pushing and questioning after the lurking ended, for example 193.
Xi remains my only null read. Some of his content is questionable, but overall his level of engagement is good. Would like to see an improvement here.
Robert remains nullscum, but he's improving. His catchup was iffy like I said earlier, but if he keeps it up and improves then he might improve.
Alban and Laser are my two main scum reads for reasons I've stated before.

[SirCakez]

Awww RC is in a scum slot. Oh well.
Catching up now.

[SirCakez]

@SirCakez...alban's 69 was scrutinized for not having much substance. I noticed you said the same thing about laser yet had a townread on alban earlier...what was the difference?

I disagree. Alban's post there looks like it actually has decent content with reads and such, as compared to the post from Laser you're referring to.

B) Lynch either the scummy Vox Dei slot or the highly questionable singer or robert slots (2nd slot less highly questionable than the first). The moderately questionable LaserVP slot would be my distant 4th.

A

@sircakez

: To reference Gumball once more, there's an archetypal example of frustrated town provided by the scum-driven Spiffeh wagon on D2 of that game. For me, tonally, this post comes from a very similar place as alban this game. I'd like you to re-read him in isolation and reconsider your vote.

Where is alban town going to lead you D2?

I don't want to lynch the Vox slot, I think Vox is town and I've discussed this before. Spiffeh there was different, I clearly got a town vibe from him and he was actually scumhunting while being wagoned while Alban is just....sitting there.
A Robert lynch is ok but not preferable. Singer leans town for me so wouldn't go there unless a decent case was put out on her.

P-edit: rofl go read the game

[SirCakez]

This is how I talk as scum.

[SirCakez]

You haven't done anything AI yet, but Laser was a scumbutt so, given you're in the same slot, you're probably a scumbutt.

[SirCakez]

Laser was a scumbutt so, given you're in the same slot, you're probably a scumbutt.

[SirCakez]

[SirCakez]

Ok so now that there's actually content from RC.

Spoiler:

Page 1:

The purpose of the votes at the start of the game for random reasons is to get the game started. Inevitably in this stage someone will do something to get serious discussion going, could be anything from joining a wagon to just making a scummy post. See the below article for more info.

Wow, already a scumlord on the first page. Smooth.

Page 2:

Played almost a full game here. Replaced in for someone like 3/4 of the way in Day 1. I have a lot of experience in EpicMafia (a year and half of playing almost everyday, like 5000 games. It's chat based so the games are like 15 minutes to an hour depending on the setup.) I hold the unofficial award for best insults.

I like Xisiqomelir quite a bit here.

So, you have just one game finished, right. And then, on the smallest amount of pressure, you talk about your self-meta. Self-meta of only one game. Self-meta that no asked for. Self-meta of a game that you were town.

That concerns me. It seems to me that you provided that self-meta to be able to say: "In my last game, i was town and did this. This game i did this too, so i must be town." This is strange. Also i did like that you puts tank at L-2, but i like that less when you point to everybody, and then changes your vote.

Mildly dislike this. it could be scum if JaeReed isn't.

I myself find my logic questionable, but since is so early on the game, and most of the posts are either talking about experience on the game, which is null, or a random vote, we don't have a lot of material to scumhunt. So, in that case, I was trying to see your reaction being pressured.

In that case, I actually liked your reaction. Even if the case that I made against you is not the strongest one, and was pretty easy to answer, I get your points and maybe what I think it was scummy wasn't actually scummy, I will unvote for now, because I think, so early in the game, that getting on a back-and-forth with you, it would prevent me seeing other options, maybe even making me tunnel. So,

Ehh.
This is pretty towny.

Laser and Lucas, why not put a new vote down when you unvoted? Your vote is your biggest weapon, you should be using it to pressure someone.

lol. you just can't stop with this, can you?

I'm sorry guys, this game started with terrible timing for me. I'm going to be on V/LA (vacation / limited access) until Tuesday since I'm out of town with family for my BiL's graduation. Also introducing tiny human to ~20 new family members...wish me luck!

Aww. Good luck! (if it hasn't happened already)

It's kind of the point of this game to analyze people and reactions over the internet, isn't it?

I sorta like this as well!

Town: {Xisiqo}
Townlean: {Robert E Me, Datanksta}
Torn: {Lucca}
Scumlean: {JaeReed}
Uberscummensch: {Sircakez}

Everything here is extremely vague and easy to say about anything. "I like this", "I dislike this", "You're a scumlord". There's no explanation or reasoning for anything. It feels very directed to attack the pro-town players.

Spoiler: Page 3

VOTE: SirCakez

You asked laser and Lucas why they weren't using their votes to pressure, yet I haven't had my vote on anyone for a while now either. Why did you exclude me?

If this isn't followed up I think we have this nailed.

Why? Even I, that wrote the post, can see a few logic errors on that post. Why the sudden townread with less than two pages of game? Also, in #40 you said that you agree with Jae that the meta contribute to the defense. That's something I was against on my post.

Alright you can be town.

As far as the SirCakez wanting your reactions and answers that may be so, but he could also get the same from me while he's at it. The only reason he wouldn't do so, imo, is if he feels he has a fairly solid read on me. I don't feel that should be the case this early in the game. Not unless, of course, he knew my alignment to start.

So wordy and waffly! I like this. In the sense that this game feels like a short one.

JaeReed's walls are OK, not pushing me one way or another. Where Cakey at.

Why do you think I reacted good to the pressure? Do you think SirCakez 31 could be scum trying to subtly keep himself distant from a potential wagon on town? He questioned without providing any insight to his thoughts on the matter.

Hmm.

I really get the impression that JaeReed is making a show of things. Long posts that look meaty but are mostly just bleh

I can't say for sure but I get a definite townread from Alban's readlist, mostly from how he described Data and how he's searching for scumteam possibilities.

Currently I have a very strong townread on you. Your level of engagement in the game feels natural and town, and I very rarely see new scum reach the level of content you have created.
I like the big reads wall and analysis Alban just created as well, it shows an eagerness to get into the game that looks like a town perspective.

Ehhh. I'd like to say that one of the two is more likely to be town because this goes against Sircakez's meta but I really don't like the way they're talking at each other and not engaging each other at all. That's a hallmark of SvS.

People are scumreading my slot after 73? really?

There was a lot of wall and spam posts in your first game, Hungarian Notak II. You never complained about it there. I feel like you could be brushing it off so that you don't have to read posts. Feels less likely that kind of thing would come from town given as scum you wouldn't need to read posts, knowing already who is what alignment. I would have bought you saying that you're busy and don't have time but you didn't say that.

This just doesn't feel like a real town thought process. This feels like scum making excuses for a read.

Very town: {Xisiqomelir}
Towny: {Datanksta, Lucca}
IIOAing but still like, needs content: {Datanksta}
Very slight town: {Alban}
hi oh look an absent mermaid: {SingerSigner}
Scum Lite: {JaeReed}
Scum: {Sircakez}

Still waiting for JaeReed to respond to Sircakez's townread.

Spoiler: Page 4

Shit. You towned it up here in a big way.

The town read on me makes me uncomfortable. I find it entirely possible you could try to get me on side with that. Your scum game is strong from what I've seen, and quite frankly, it scares me. The rest of your post is town and has actual content, which was part of my issue with you as I felt you were trying to coast somewhat.

The response to why you didn't ask me is fair. NAI since you could have done that as either alignment, but more likely town if I'm going by gut feel. Scum you might have pulled the response I was expecting, which was something along the lines of me having had enough pressure for you to get some kind of read, or that I withheld my vote for a fair time when I had no definitive scumreads in my other newbie.

UNVOTE:

Cakez is probably town. Like 70% certainty in a town read there now.

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER.

This is so bloody awful. The distance play here was planned- they decided in scumchat that they would scumread each other then come around to townreading. This post is so exaggerated and postured that I can't stop laughing at it.

am, however, beginning to solidify the opinion that you're scum from just that response to me. If you're town please give me something other than discrediting attempts, insults, and theory talk. I dislike antagonistic players but it's not like I won't work with them if they prove they're town (like Charl in that game I linked). I'll stay largely out of your way to the best of my ability if you can sell me on you being town. Right now you're looking like scum trying to discredit though.

This is way more hands-off than town talk 99% of the time.
More on this post when I make my full case on Jae/Cakez.

Now, about your vote, what's your case on me? I'm asking because from your post, I fell that wasn't clear. If it's because of the JaeReed thing, okay. But if you are scumreading me because I changed my vote, I found that a very bad case. I don't think a person voting a lot on different people is a scum tell. If they're voting they without reason, just going with the flow, yes, that's a scum tell. But if the votes have a reason, I don't think this is a tell at all.

This is even more probably town.
Getting pretty confident here in my picks. Singer is one of the only real remaining scum candidates left.

lol omfg 87 EVERY SINGLE READ is awful.
COULD YOU BE ANY MORE REACTIONARY? COULD YOUR CAKEZ SHIT BE ANY LESS BELIEVABLE?

I want a tank lynch at this stage. He's new and new scum I feel is more likely to lurk because they don't know what to do unless they had an experienced person direct them before the game. I don't think his potential partner would give him advice such as "post as much as possible and i can spin it as town" such as Nacho did with kage in my last game. I do have an idea on a partner if he does flip, but regardless I think the slot has been trying to hide.

Everyone else... Thoughts on that previous paragraph? Especially Robert since your RVS vote is still on him.

I seem to recall others have pointed out that they're looking to be townread. THis is another example of it.
Oh, and why wouldn't their partner have given that advice?
ftr I can't help screwing up they as a pronoun. apologies in advance.

All from one post? I like the analysis you did here but I'm not sure why you have such a strong townread on me mainly from that one post when you know I have a strong scum game.

YEAH WELL WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT.
OMG THESE ARE INTERACTIONS ARE SO SVS HOLY ANNIE.

I don't know why this rubs me the wrong way but it does. As Xisiq pointed out, the only way he could be sure of anything was with moderator supplied information, so I guess my real problem is the redundancy of this? Or perhaps the dismissive tone I feel I'm picking up? Could you expand on why you felt the need to drop this line?

HEY YOU ARE THE EPITOME OF TOWNY GOODNESS. I MADE GIANT EXAGGERATED POSTS ABOUT HOW TOWN YOU ARE.
WAIT, I am scumreading this thing you did.
Can I tell you exactly what you need to do so that you can earn my townread again?
Thanks!

I find it especially hilarious given that JaeReed is basically mirroring however Sircakez treats their slot.

Still town: {Xisiqo}
Towny: {Lucca Magnotta}
Probtown but STOP THE LURK: {Robert E Me, Datanksta}
Townlean: {Alban}
Backup Scumbutt: {SingerSigner}
Wow yall can't scum theatre for crap: {JaeReed, Sircakez}

And this continues it.
"Alright you can be town."
"This post is so exaggerated and postured that I can't stop laughing at it."
"This is even more probably town."
"OMG THESE ARE INTERACTIONS ARE SO SVS HOLY ANNIE."

It's just shade throwing and scum read generation. The reads and comments look like they are made up to fit scum objectives. Would definitely lynch RC at this point.

[SirCakez]

So he's saying that my reads and comments look like they are made to fit scum objectives and that I'm shade throwing.

Yet the first thing that he did when I replaced in was to shade throw, then I pushed on him so he decided that, and even look at the wording. 'Now that I've produced content.' Does that sound like a person that was actually interested in sorting my alignment or someone who preemptively decided they had to push on me.

Who do his comments actually apply to, me or him?

There's nothing shade-throwy about saying someone is in a scummy slot.
It's also pretty obvious that I was open to reevluating your slot, given how I said you hadn't done anything AI yet, but your catchup is very scummy so my scumread on your slot shall remain.

[SirCakez]

I was town in 623?

[SirCakez]

570. I'm sure we both know exactly what I meant, given that I made exactly the same kinds of comments because you were doing exactly the same kinds of things!

In 570 I hard defended a buddy and tried to play it off. There's nothing like that here?

Bravo, Radiant! Finally someone who can put these idiots on a back foot. I can see a sudden change in Cakez's demeanour, and man, am I glad or what! I am just viciously glad that someone apart from me finds Jae's posts moronic, low on content, and downright scummy.

This is more scum posting from Alban. Literally waited for someone else to make a push then hopped onto it immediately.

Hi RC

You haven't done anything AI yet, but Laser was a scumbutt so, given you're in the same slot, you're probably a scumbutt.

Waitaminute what happened to

I understand scumreading a slot for having a scummy predecessor, but what I don't get is the fact your read isn't evolving based on Vox's new content. There comes a point where you have to analyze the new slot too.

Note the "new content" part of the second quote. Now RC has actually produced (scummy) content so my scumread there remains.

[SirCakez]

No one is listening to your posts because they're all vague and unexplained.
Alban is scum but of course you have him as town for ??? reason.

[SirCakez]

I guarantee that scum Alban will be lynched today and that you won't be able to save your buddy.
Sorry!

[SirCakez]

This is hilarious.

[SirCakez]

Like if you want to force RC vs SirCakez then I'm fine lynching you too. It's really funny that you think you can just spew, "I'm sure this guy is scum!" without anything to actually back it up besides ancient meta and expect everyone to sheep you. This is your scum game.

[SirCakez]

Going to catch up here in a few hours

[SirCakez]

Correct
Is the analysis/questioning in that post the only specific thing you have to townread Laser? The rest of it is pretty vague.
The Xisi read makes more sense though.

Honestly yeah that's the only specific thing. I like his posts in general but he's not a super strong read of mine.

Ohhhhk how has RC changed your read on the slot now then?

I absolutely fucking want to force RC vs sircakez because you're a scumfuck, your scumgame is obnoxious, and I feel I can win.
ALL YOU PEOPLE IN THIS GAME, LISTEN UP.

I have a strong feeling this is town/town between you and cakez.

I don't. Last time I was town and Cakez was scum, cakez was in fact scum and I was town.

Why do you think that you're a class above FIrebringer/Shos/all the people who thought Cakez was town when I said that he was scum? Not to mention the game where I and FA lynched him / vigged his partner for the final KO.

Alban, vote Cakez with me.

I absolutely fucking want to force RC vs sircakez because you're a scumfuck, your scumgame is obnoxious, and I feel I can win.
ALL YOU PEOPLE IN THIS GAME, LISTEN UP.

I have a strong feeling this is town/town between you and cakez.

I have a strong feeling that you're wrong. And giving my extremely strong track record of pinning Scum!Sircakez, and his fucking insanely scummy discrediting of me immediately upon replace in, my strong feeling isn't just based on feelings it's based on the hard facts that his play this game is to an incredible extent likely to be scum, and Alban's visceral emotional reactions unlikely to be scum. I've been in this situation before. If scum doesn't get lynched today, I will be nightkilled, my reads will be forgotten and/or ignored, Sircakez and whoever will make it to LyLo, everyone will say something after game about how 'well RC was right again, should have listened!' and then it will not influence how anyone plays with me the next game because who would actually listen to other people right? I am unbelievably confident that Cakez isn't town and my read comes out of many many games and 3 people's (me, FA, Ranger) joint analyses of his scumgame. Why are you so sure that we're TvT, Xisiqo? What has happened in this game that you believe that I would be wrong in attempting to force a 1v1 with someone who even when scum is mostly lynched out of policy and in spite of that I'm this fervent in his scumminess? I don't use the heavy language that I'm using in this paragraph lightly. I'm ridiculously certain that Cakez is scum and I've seen him somehow manage to walk away from the lynch despite even scummier play than this in previous games. Bluntly, I am far more convinced by my scumread on him than your unspecified townread, and also bluntly, you should be too. Cakez does not even remotely deserve a townread for his play this game and you should take a step back from this game and rethink things for having on.

This is blatantly scum motivated posting. RC is just going, "Trust me I know he's scum just follow me please I'm so sure" etc. He's done this more then once before as scum and I'll grab quotes of it after I finished catching up. No actual evidence to back up his ridiculous scumread on me.

Look. All 4 of my scumreads are on the Alban wagon.

Alban's recent posting has been incredibly town motivated.

XIsiqo, Alban: I would strongly prefer to lynch Sircakez but if we can all get on the same wagon together I'm fine with that.

I will let a NL go through before I hammer Alban here.

COntinuing my catching up now.

There's nothing town motivated about Alban's posting recently.

[SirCakez]

Can you link me a game of yours where you're town and reach out to one of your scumreads? Don't you normally just clam up and "no you're scum" it?

Who would you consider to be cakez partner if not me? I need more of a case than meta if you want me to vote a townread of mine.

I play the game very differently in newbie queue.

This is a blatant handwave and also false given my experience with you in and out of newbie games.

My scumread on Sircakez is based on Micro 570 and Mini Theme 1790.

I'm not sure where he's getting his scumread on me from.

Open 623 and Amazing World of Gumball, also a bit of Open 635

VOTE: Vox Dei

Claim.

This entire counterwagon on Vox at deadline is awful. It looks clear to me RC is scum with alban and is redirecting the wagon away from his buddy at deadline. RC has given no reason to scumread Vox other then saying "this post knocks him below singer tier" which is ???. And as well, RC was townreading datank and apparently never finished catchup so this scumread is not backed up at all.

Grabbing those meta quotes now.

[SirCakez]

This is from Open 623 (Viva = RC). Titus was town, RC was scum.

Spoiler:

When you see the Titus scum flip you'll come around.
Or maybe you won't and you'll go back to sheeping scum lynches after I die, idk, but you've been informed.

My goal is for you to vote Titus.

I don't know how to get through to you.

Extrapolated Eagle, Titus, SirCakez, AlwaysInnocent, Karnage

SirCakez, Titus, TheCow, PhantomCobalt, Yonom, Extrapolated Eagle

Familiar?
Same votes, same shitty town wagons.
Titus is scum. You wanna push scum's counterwagon for them that's your prerogative, but if I get NKed you better fucking make Titus happen.

Scumbloc leading wagons makes this no fun for town.

Maybe we'll lynch Titus one of these days.

Rather lynch Titus, thanks.

If Titus isn't happening I'll lynch Karnage over Firebringer.

I am not lynching anyone besides Titus today unless things get desperate at deadline.
We should have lynched Titus on fucking day 1 and we should have lynched her yesterday but she's definitely not fucking living today.
Don't let scumblock push the lynch elsewhere again. They did this yesterday. We are lynching her today. Full stop.
I have been telling you that she is scum for days. If you're not going to fucking lynch her you might as well all be fucking mafia.

This is from Amazing World of Gumball (granted it was bussing there but it's the same style of ridiculous over the top pushing RC does as scum).

Spoiler:

Like you're all being pretty fucking dumb right now.
I *guarantee* you that Serene slot is scum.

This is a read on par with my Camn read in our newbie game, with my UTL read that I fake guiltied, with my AFB read that I also fake guiltied.
The ONLY thought process that leads to that specific post is scum wanting to get a lynch as fast as possible while leaving themself an out.
That's not sheeping, that's not being mistaken on facts, that's not misreading the gamestate.
The scum motivation is fucking blatant and if you can't see it then you're all bad players.

I am not voting anyone else while Serene is alive unless I get everyone's guarantee that if there's a cop or vig they will dispatch the slot tonight.

They are scum.

And you can even see in the incredibly fucking dirty way that they're trying to play the crowd against me.
That's pure slime. That's so fucking far from a town mentality that it's not even funny.
Pull your shit together.

fuck you.

cop is on them. I guarantee scum.

Every single fucking person in this game has seen me be right about things that no one else was even close to.

Vote Serene.

RC, you were literally 6 when we started our 100% accuracy reading DGB and Kuribo.

And now I'm 21 and I'm a way fucking better scumhunter than anyone in this game so vote him.

No like if you don't vote Serene now you are agreeing that in all future games you are forfeiting your vote to me because clearly something is miswired in your brains.
The scum intent is so fucking obvious that it's like bleeding.

I don't care what order we get lynched in FTR as long as you lycnh Serene.
I am going to, to the best of my ability, disrupt any attempts to get any other lynches done while Serene is alive.
I will never vote anyone else.

Since everyone here is fully aware that I take a claim like this seriously, either they'll get lynched, I'll make it to LyLo and force a lynch between us, or I'll get night killed.
But scum would never make that nightkill if Serene isn't scum because they know I'm going to chain wagon him; and don't cry WiFOM because this would be incredibly beneficial to scum.

done.

Let's make a deal.
We lynch Serene today.
They flip scum, you say that I'm the greatest scumhunter in the world and you wish you could be like me and you sheep my votes the rest of the game.
They flip town, I'll say the reverse and won't push any wagons that you and Postie don't agree on.

And for the record: Postie doesn't disagree, she just doesn't have as strong as a scumread as I do.

So when he flips scum I get to rub this in your face forever and ever?

[SirCakez]

And what's so indicative of my meta here then? The only thing you've said is "similar to 570 and AC 4" which means basically nothing as I also played like that as town in 1758 and Gumball for example.

[SirCakez]

^^^ this is uber town
Do not mislynch Vox, lynch scumbutt Alban!

[SirCakez]

I'm also good with a RC lynch FYI but I don't know if that will pull together before deadline.

[SirCakez]

If someone hammers Vox they're going in my scum pool. There's no excuse.

[SirCakez]

Because everything you say is vomiting "this guy is scum" over and over without explanation? Which just makes you obvious scum.

[SirCakez]

RC, Vox is clutching at straws to survive here. This is transparent

meh. ^This is actually pretty bad.
VOTE: SirCakez
I think there's pretty clearly one scum in RC/Cakez. I'm okay with treating a townflip as a guilty on RC.

I'm absolutely trying to survive. We're going to have to resolve the RC/Cakez dilemma at some point, now seems ideal given the alternative is a terrible compromise lynch. (I don't think anyone denies that I'm only being lynched because nobody can get their first choice lynch through.)

Xisi, how do you think the RC/Cakez argument ought to be resolved and when? Do you think the odds of mislynching one of them goes down if we wait?

This is all true. The only problem I have with it is who you're voting of the 1v1.
Go here for victory!
VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Spoiler:

I knew this was going to happen eventually. I'm really annoyed that RC turned everyone away from the alban wagon and quite confident that he (RC) is scum for that reason.
I'm sorry I wasn't able to invest more time into this game; I thought looking at other games that they might be manageable, but with the amount of long posts and the busy schedule here I let you guys down.

I'm a vanilla townie. Here are my final thoughts:

I'm very confident Jae is town but unfortunately RC has instilled enough paranoia in them to get them to fear me for this reason. Given how easily manipulated Jae seems to be I think the best advice to them is always make sure your thoughts are your own, particularly when somebody appears to be suggesting something without much evidence (as RC has done to me).

I'm also fairly confident that RC is scum. I've heard enough of RC to know that he is a fairly competent town player, and he would not be turning this lynch onto me as town. The way he managed to scare everyone off alban is evidence that RC wants alban alive, either to mislynch later or because they are partners.

I'm still pretty confident on alban, and even if he did flip town that flip in itself would give town a lot of information.

Given my scumread on RC, I am still townreading SirCakez. If RC did flip town (particularly if he is nightkilled), then I might recommend reconsidering that read.

Xisi has been playing quite scummy, which I have been talking about a lot recently; you should be able to find my thoughts on him.

The other three slots (Robert, singer, lucca) I haven't had any serious thoughts one way or another on recently.

Honestly I don't know why I'm bothering to lay these out, I know nobody listens to the mislynched anyway.

I guess my most important advice is: at the very least, ignore RC until he is dead and flipped town (if he does flip town). I can easily see him steamrolling lynches on SirCakez and practically anyone else (Robert, for example) and cruising to an easy win. And also, please look at the way and the reason that the alban wagon died, because both are fishy.

I'll listen dw. I'm more voting you as a compromise with RC & my biggest townread lucca since I wasn't willing to vote Cakez, who is now actually looking bad for continuing the 1v1 instead of leaving it to be sorted with night kills/lack of.

I don't fucking know anymore, dude. I'm too sick for this shit so close to deadline.

VOTE: Cakez

RC if you're scum I'm gonna feel really stupid endgame.

This is flawed though. I wasn't going to just ignore RC while he was pushing all over me. Doing that just would have let him throw shit all over me even more then he has.

[SirCakez]

"RC is consistently right on Cakez" assumes RC's town. Weren't you just scumreading RC?

[SirCakez]

You were not my primary scumread but you decided to force this 1v1 lynch so so be it.

[SirCakez]

RC!scum could easily play off getting me mislynched. Just look at Open 623, he got his Titus lynch and got away with it.

[SirCakez]

I got lynched and lost in 570 (._. )

[SirCakez]

Yes I saw that and I think it's concerning.
This isn't going to get put off until day 2 with how RC is going at it though.

And FYI RC I didn't even push the Fire lynch and was fully expecting to be lynched after I NKed you lol.

[SirCakez]

You're not going to be NKed, you're scum.

[SirCakez]

How did I not push you upon replacing in? I immediately analyzed your catchup, which was scummy af, and had you as my second lynch target constantly.

[SirCakez]

I would rather lynch RC then Vox for obvious reasons. The fact RC went back to Vox only after I started getting votes is pretty bad as well. No hammer town!Vox please.

[SirCakez]

It's also worth looking at the quotes I grabbed earlier of RC strong arming lynches as scum just like here.

[SirCakez]

I'm not posting because I'm in the middle of nowhere on my bike with only my phone which sucks for writing long posts. I haven't been posting elsewhere either. I'll deal with this when I get home.

[SirCakez]

Not surprised by the Vox town flip. It's more evidence for RC!scum though which is great.
Alban suggesting a Cop/Tracker claim is also quite scummy. Cop/Tracker shouldn't out unless a guilty.

[SirCakez]

I'm not interested in figuring out their main. The only people who I can think of who'd you tunnel like that as town anyway would be either Beeboy or Titus and I highly doubt Vox was either of those.

[SirCakez]

That's not what I meant *facepalm*
I meant who you would tunnel like that as town, not who would tunnel you as town.

[SirCakez]

RC's Vox tunnel

Spoiler:

I really, really, really want to lynch Sircakez but Vox Dei is just being so incredibly scummy with the way he's trying to preempt a push on me after Sircakez would flip town.

I might go back and vote him again.

Alright.

VOTE: Vox Dei

Going back on this for the following reasons.

1) Vox does still make sense as a Cakez partner, although
2) Some of the things he's said on the previous page indicate to me he's really newb scum blatantly preparing for what he sees as capitalizing on a $cashmoney$ TvT
3) I frankly don't want him alive. His attitude towards the game is disgustingly anti-town and while I 'could' see him as town, I think he's more likely to be scum and even if he us town he's just approaching this game in a manner that I'm finding hard to put into words, not strictly new but more like not really into the game to scumhunt. It feels bad.
4) I still really do think Sircakez is incredibly likely to be scum but he could be town PR and even if he's scum he's going to claim town PR. We've forced multiple VT claims today and given that I am pretty happy with a Vox Dei lynch anyway I'm fine with doing that. But I swear to Annie that if this flips town and I get NKed and you let him go I will be extremely unhappy.

and also

5) Vox's position on Singer makes no sense and I'm not forgetting that the original reason I requested Radja to in me when someone replaced out was to lynch her.
Between her lurking and me loathing Sircakez's play that sort of got sidetracked but I'm looking back on that now and wondering if I mucked it up with Cakez and Jaereed.
I'm not positive but JaeReed has felt like he might be town. I'm not sure. I will absolutely want to see Sircakez dead but that doesn't have to be today.

DIIIIICKS. Guys I'm drunk which doesn't happer super awesome because BEBEH. I might've fucked up and thought our deadline was today instead of tomorrow because of so many extentions so I didn't realize I had m re time than I thoughts. I'mm not trying nto be an bad IC just not a dead one though like no one ever nks me so i don't know what i thought would happen so it's not like I don't care about yousr just that I don't eant to not be not around if I don't have to not be...I thought there'ds be a flip to see but apparentl theter's not and there's so much I haven 't read but there are still three people I'd be ok lynching so I will hammer whatever needs to be harrmered at this point. <3

Help me hammer Vox please.

Here's why I said Alban was town.

When Alban was at L-1 he was fighting to the fucking death to get his reads listened to and more concerned with arguing and swaying people in favour of his scumreads postmortem as opposed to actually changing the reads.

Vox is far more focused on changing the reads on him and I don't get the same impression that he's trying to solve the game.

I wouldn't cry any salty tears about a Sircakez lynch, regardless of what it flipped, including PR: but Vox has been bugging me and I'd rather see a cop check on Sircakez than risk pushing him up today.

Vox's play around L-1 has intensified rather than weakened my scumread on his slot. I would want him dead before LyLo; let's just do it today.

Oh, and what I was trying to put into words earlier
is that he doesn't feel new. he scumhunts like a newb but his moves are horribly thought out, calculated and self interested.
I'm inclined to believe that he's some sort of alt or major mafia player on a different site who is hiding behind a claim of newbieness.

Like, I see and understand your point of view: but Sircakez's play is so far off the reservation that the hardest part about scumreading Vox is understanding why his interactions with Scum!Cakez are the way they are.

I'll lynch Vox today but I want to know that I have your support on a lynch on Sircakez whether I am alive or not tomorrow regardless of what the Vox flip is.

RC, you know that if Cakez is town, maf will use that to vote you and go to LYLO, right?

It's a chance that I am plenty willing to take.

I could handle lynching Vox if it weren't for the amount of people who seem to think that me and Cakez is TvT and I feel like if I don't get protected and die Cakez will get away with saying 'Oh look they killed RC to frame me and who was town who would have thought it!' and like I know I'm all over the place right now but I'm really scared of that happening again.

VOTE: Vox

Guess we're NLing then.

[SirCakez]

Cop/tracker may have something interesting. And s/he also knows the set-up.

Not surprised by the Vox town flip. It's more evidence for RC!scum though which is great.
Alban suggesting a Cop/Tracker claim is also quite scummy. Cop/Tracker shouldn't out unless a guilty.

Cakez, read carefully.
Where did I say that cop/tracker should claim? I said that Jae being a doc means that there's a definite investigative role and they may have interesting info.
Either you are in a hurry to misrepresent me or its a genuine mistake. Either way, don't jump to conclusions without reading.

Xi, of course they shouldnt claim, and find their own strategy to feed the info without rousing suspicion.

"Cop/Tracker could have something interesting" obviously implies they should claim.

[SirCakez]

Alright.

VOTE: Vox Dei

Going back on this for the following reasons.

1) Vox does still make sense as a Cakez partner, although
2) Some of the things he's said on the previous page indicate to me he's really newb scum blatantly preparing for what he sees as capitalizing on a $cashmoney$ TvT
3) I frankly don't want him alive. His attitude towards the game is disgustingly anti-town and while I 'could' see him as town, I think he's more likely to be scum and even if he us town he's just approaching this game in a manner that I'm finding hard to put into words, not strictly new but more like not really into the game to scumhunt. It feels bad.
4) I still really do think Sircakez is incredibly likely to be scum but he could be town PR and even if he's scum he's going to claim town PR. We've forced multiple VT claims today and given that I am pretty happy with a Vox Dei lynch anyway I'm fine with doing that. But I swear to Annie that if this flips town and I get NKed and you let him go I will be extremely unhappy.

and also

5) Vox's position on Singer makes no sense and I'm not forgetting that the original reason I requested Radja to in me when someone replaced out was to lynch her.

This isn't a top pick for scum?

[SirCakez]

[SirCakez]

You mean, the flash wagon off of Alban onto town???

[SirCakez]

I never even got to L-1, the fuck? At most I think I was at L-2.

[SirCakez]

That's fine with me.
I want Robert to cough up reads on this 1v1 soon.

[SirCakez]

Cop/tracker may have something interesting. And s/he also knows the set-up.

Not surprised by the Vox town flip. It's more evidence for RC!scum though which is great.
Alban suggesting a Cop/Tracker claim is also quite scummy. Cop/Tracker shouldn't out unless a guilty.

Cakez, read carefully.
Where did I say that cop/tracker should claim? I said that Jae being a doc means that there's a definite investigative role and they may have interesting info.
Either you are in a hurry to misrepresent me or its a genuine mistake. Either way, don't jump to conclusions without reading.

Xi, of course they shouldnt claim, and find their own strategy to feed the info without rousing suspicion.

"Cop/Tracker could have something interesting" obviously implies they should claim.

Don't assume obviousness even after my explanation.
It meant that they may have info that they should judiciously feed to the town.

People that should be looked into for Jae's NK are either those that he was finding null or town. For me to say this, it will be perceived as WIFOM for me killing Jae in the night as mafia and then refuting that by saying that I couldnt coz I was his main suspect, so I wouldnt. But my suspects for Jae's NK are those that he didn't suspect or actively supported, or those players who supported Jae or put him at null.

But I can see the fallacy in that. Just coz it isnt correct in my case, doesn't mean that it wont be true in others cases. Jae could have been easily killed by those who were touting him as scum (the way I was doing) or those that he found scummy, and killing him could be used as WIFOM later.

ERM OK.....
Who do you think would have been likely to kill Jae then?

@Radja V/LA until Monday

[SirCakez]

After the answers though, I'm probably voting Cakez to put him at L-1.

Why not RC?

[SirCakez]

Yeah but very slim

[SirCakez]

Eh, I wasn't really reading Vox as scummy so the turn there I didn't find very preferable. Which would make me suspect RC more in this 1v1. Butttt I've been doing some re-reading and I can actually see ScumCakez more than ScumRC right now. So as of now, I am more inclined towards a Cakez lynch.

(._. )

[SirCakez]

God I wonder if RC was just whiteknighting town!alban and he's scum with Robert now. That reaction to Xis's Robert vote sucks.

[SirCakez]

I mean not actually but just vote Sircakez.

I peeled off of Sircakez and you fucked up and hit town.

"You peeled off and hit town"
You lead the wagon onto Vox, don't act like you weren't a major part of it.

[SirCakez]

"I peeled off and you screwed up and hit town*
EBWOP

[SirCakez]

After the answers though, I'm probably voting Cakez to put him at L-1.

Why not RC?

You were at L-2 that moment. Let's say I vote for RC, who would vote with me? You. The others are doubtful. I felt like putting you at L-1 would provide us more information.

What information did putting me to L-1 provide you?

[SirCakez]

The two things that I didn't like from Cakez was his attack on Alban (he was attacking him for a lot of things that aren't scummy at all and he should know better + the suspicion came at a pretty opportunistic time), and his reaction to RC (him telling RC he replaced into a "scum slot" was a pretty strong increase in read compared to his suspicion on Laser before and his followups so far haven't looked so hot).

I'm not going through all of that but this is bogus.
The Alban suspicion appeared at the same time as everyone else since he scummed up ridiculously, there was nothing opportunistic about it.
Laser was my top scumread consistently, there was no "increase in read". I was pushing Alban over Laser solely because I couldn't get support for Laser, which is another scum pointer for the slot.

[SirCakez]

The Alban suspicion appeared at the same time as everyone else since he scummed up ridiculously, there was nothing opportunistic about it.

You put Alban at L-1 when you hadn't expressed suspicion on him before (I think, but I'll go back and check it if I have time). I understand that it was a time when a lot of people were suspecting Alban, but I don't think that it's unreasonable to suspect that you were taking advantage of the wave against him at that point.

And what it makes so I was taking advantage and others weren't?

Your opinion on RVS was part of the reasoning for my vote, yes. I think you are putting far too much discredence onto the power of votes and it reads like a scum tactic.

This is a post I really don't like. Laser is basically telling Jae to stop engaging with him which I have a big problem with as Jae is probably the most active and engaged player in the game. Looks like scum trying to get an aggressive player to back off.

Laser is definitely my top scum read now with how he reacted to Jae's questioning.
Singer now leans scum with Tank, both still have yet to produce serious content. Still waiting on both to contribute more.

I don't think I'm exclusively tunneling you. I've expressed scumreads on others, I'm analyzing other's posts, and I'm going to vote Alban soon. This feels like a strawman, making yourself to be the victim.

I'm running out of time, but this is your push on Laser, for the most part. I don't think this is the push of someone who is extraordinarily confident (you didn't encourage other people to vote him, etc) and I'm not sure that the way you pushed it aligns with you later greeting the replacement by telling him that he replaced into a scum slot.

Notice how I said top scumread in the third quote. Laser was my most consistent scumread.

[SirCakez]

RC isn't town though Xis, so that's not an issue.

[SirCakez]

Spoiler:

[SirCakez]

The fact the others are confirmed town just proves my point if anything.

I did push on him a lot, I didn't push others to vote him necessarily but it was definitely a strong read.

[SirCakez]

Laser/alban made lots of sense as a team tho. And Alban was actually getting support so it made sense to go there?

[SirCakez]

No support for laser and support for alban = go to alban?
It's not rocket science

[SirCakez]

Lack of interactions with each other
I never said that. I prefer wagons with support since it's easier to make progress with them, i:;e get a claim and lynch if necessary.

[SirCakez]

He was supported by everyone except me, Xi and Radiant. It was a brilliant choice for a kill. Jae was the only player in the game who was almost universally accepted as a town.

This contradicts itself.

[SirCakez]

If Cakez is a town, and is being tunnelled, we should understandably keep him for tomorrow, and in the meantime cop asks about Cakez in the night.
And yet I am tempted to vote for Cakez coz not voting for him now means that I am keeping the same confusions for tomorrow which are bothering me today. Also, cop's suspect pool has an unnecessary addition in the form of Cakez. So I believe the best strategy is to vote out Cakez, and the cop asks about Xi/Lucca/Nacho/Radiant whose confirmed identity, even as town, will push the game forward.
If Cakez is town and we lynch him, we will be in LyLo tomorrow. Cakez if you are town, maybe you can build up your case as a town?

I would greatly prefer being cop checked to being mislynched

I don't have much to say to town case myself, the game's not that big. I was being townread correctly earlier then RC came in in a screwed slot and threw a ton of shade with his typical tactics at my slot and singlehandedly drove the lynch to Vox who was town. Meanwhile I fought that lynch. Today RC has been doing literally nothing and is waiting for me to be lynched. No counterwagon has been offered to me, this is also a big towntell.

[SirCakez]

Nacho would bus over trying to create a counterwagon in this instance.
Species IS attempting to create a counterwagon by being all 'HEY GUYS LOOK AT THAT SHINY WAGON THAT HAS TO HAVE SCUM ON IT GUYS!?'
Xisiq is attempting to create a counterwagon as well.

So if what you meant to say is that me, Lucca, and Alban don't want a counterwagon, the latter of whom are shared townreads between myself and Nacho assuming that you're scum... then sure?

And you and Alban are a likely scumteam so yeah.

I think that if Cakez is town his play has been beyond unacceptable and deserves autolynch.

I've had correct reads on all the flips so far. This is just more of your usual shit.

[SirCakez]

Like really that comment is so much garbage, you had Jae and Vox as scum and both flipped town.

[SirCakez]

I thought I was voting already huh
VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[SirCakez]

y u do this to me RC

[SirCakez]

I blame Radja
I hate rolling scum in newbie games

[SirCakez]

It's more like it's irritating when you replace into a game with the specific aim of screwing over one player just for the lols

[SirCakez]

Because I never got a chance to claim qq

[SirCakez]

Oh that makes so much sense lol