Newbie 1764: Wind Game Over

[Alisae]

AYYYYYYYYYY WATTUP. BRB catching up on the things I missed. If there are anythings that you want me to go over, want to ask me, ya know, all that good stuff. Once I finish catching up, I will happily give reads.
UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

hm, it's hard to choose, only 1 vote and 8 people i would like to vote

I don't like this post. I dunno what about it I don't like, but I just don't.
If anything, this probably says you're town, but we'll see.

[Alisae]

Slight townread on nydus. His excited opening reminds me of how I felt when I first joined the site. I don't think that scum!nydus would start off their game with what I would describe as almost a surplus of analysis despite not much happening yet.

Do you think it is possible at this point that he is just trying to fake town? Being excited an all. Not to mention if he is scum, he could try to make himself look town by just giving reads early.

[Alisae]

well, i doubt accountant will do all work, in other site we had rule, if IC lives to D3 in newbie game, then IC is most likely scum so i expect accountant get night killed sometime soon

This logic isn't exactly the best. I know scum try to do 2 things when they NK. Could be more, but in my experience, it's these 2:
A. PR Hunt.
B. Kill the person they think is the most town. Or try to kill townleaders.

I know the IC in my first newbie game lived till day 3 and he was a PR. He also won us (town), the game.

[Alisae]

hm, it's hard to choose, only 1 vote and 8 people i would like to vote

What, really? You have a scumread on every other player in the game?

opposite, it's impossible to get scumread just from what we have now, and normally before game ends i have accused most of people being scum

I very much so disagree. Nydus could have easily had a wagon ontop of him. But I feel the paranoia, you must be a very paranoid player.

[Alisae]

btw, anyone could tell me which roles from matrix6 we got in this game? Cause i can't find or it's secret?

Why the fuck you PR hunting?
If you're town, don't talk about PRs. Don't claim unless mass claim or L-2 or L-1. Even if you're VT. It narrows down who could potentially be a PR for scum.

[Alisae]

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald
I don't know why everyone decided to jump on the bandwagon with me, but I don't feel comfortable with having someone at L-2 on page 3 while we're still basically in RVS. Will be back with some thoughts on the game so far later, a bit busy now.

Few questions here.
A. Do you feel that Gamma is town?
B. What about the wagon do you not like at this point getting to L-2? Do you feel as if it's scum motivated?

[Alisae]

I believe that what Accountant is doing is provoking people to show there true self. Questions in mafia are not asked for people to get answers but to see reactions. Ways they answer are hints to who they are. Tho this can also be used as a great protection. Xe almost talks like all his actions till this point are all made in the benefit of town. While other members are showing some motives and are even demonstating there playstyles, Accountant is being calm and collected, asking questions and then leaving them at that, without taking actions or persuing people who he belives are not town to further pressure them.

What is your definition of scumhunting and how do you go about it?
To me this seems like you don't want people to scumhunt, because asking questions is the easiest method to doing so.

[Alisae]

I'm not trying to be rude alisae but asking people questions about their reads from 200+ posts ago might be a bit stale.

I think the past couple pages are a bit more juicy if you're looking for reads.

No offense taken, I just know some players catch up by just posting their thoughts as they read along. And I have the time so wynaut?
Haven't even gotten anywhere close to my reads so far. Only on page 4.

[Alisae]

I've read a past game of yours @accountant and found that the style of questions you ask are similar (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5&start=75) but I still think that you are being more passive in this game than you were in the game that I mentioned. I'll keep you at light scum, although I'm tempted to full on push on you because I think you have a good chance of being mafia, solely because I believe that without you, this game would still be on page 2.

This is interesting. I could see town you doing this and then holding this against him because you genuinely want to scum hunt, or you're being absorbed by conf bias. I could see scum you doing this to try to push a case on the target you want to lynch, but moreso town because say you don't exactly want to push it yet, you just want to make sure you can genuinely trust your IC.

[Alisae]

Gonna start multiquoting now. Forgot that was a feature.

I am in agreement with Ramcius here: mafia are usually very passive, I feel in Newbies especially. I've seen scum win by not putting themselves out there much. That's why I drive people to post sometimes by specifically hunting their activity.
That's quite a lot of words for one simple point. I definitely feel Ramcius is town currently for thinking similarly to me.

Pep, I'm lookin at you. At this point in the game you've been very passive. And I don't recall this being you. To me you seem unusually passive this game.

Last let me point out that if Accountant is holding back just because he is an IC, well this is dumb. Isn't the ICs job to help us get better at the game, by explaining things and giving his best in the game? He can do both imo. We are playing a game of mafia and even tho this is a newbie game where most of us are new or at least relatively new, I belive everybody should be playing like they usually do. Nydushermain pointed out that in another Accountant game his playing style was simular but not as passive. This is what is bothering me.

I feel as if scum!accountant would have to quote the Being a Good IC wiki thread "I expect a scum IC to teach correctly and also play to win - almost all the time that's just the smart play. The only difference being, really, that a scum IC will tend to teach things that are true and are sound, logical advice but also just happen, in this one specific case, to lower the town's chances of winning due to factors the town can't possibly know about; or else, the scum IC will give good pro-town advice, but then will use the trust he gets from the town from that good advice to lead the town on bad bandwagons until the town loses. Good scum play is generally very similar to good town play, as far as the uninformed observer can tell. - Yosarian2
As scum, I think you should be as helpful as possible without compromising your own ability to win the game. Play like you would if you were scum in a regular game, but explain all the things that we assume players in regular games would know and understand. If you're scum, it's very important to sit down after the game and explain anything you omitted during the course of the game.... [Y]ou shouldn't purposefully give bad advice on how to play the game, because that turns people away when they find out you screwed them over like that just to win a newbie game when you're supposed to be helping them. - Mastermind of Sin"

By alliance I mean either Town or Scum Accountant.

Well, you say if you are not gonna help me scum hunt then don't stay in my way. I haven't seen you do any scum hunting yet. And in mafia you need to provoke people to say something to go after. That's why it's good to ask questions. you can't expect everybody to be like "Hey, I'm gonna say something scummy so you can after me". This is mostly done in the early beginning of the game or the RVS stage as you call it or whatever (not really good with the terminology in mafia still lol). After that it is a game of who is better at gathering evidence and using them to your advantage and helping your faction goals.

Also saying you are a prime target for Night 1 kill is not something I belive a town in your situation would say. Furthermore I would like to ask you why are you seeming so aggressive if you are not scared? Is this a game plan, or just your personality?

Last let me point out that if Accountant is holding back just because he is an IC, well this is dumb. Isn't the ICs job to help us get better at the game, by explaining things and giving his best in the game? He can do both imo. We are playing a game of mafia and even tho this is a newbie game where most of us are new or at least relatively new, I belive everybody should be playing like they usually do. Nydushermain pointed out that in another Accountant game his playing style was simular but not as passive. This is what is bothering me.

You said i'm look scared, so i said i'm not, and gave reason why i'm not, it's just simple logic, i'm very vocal, and townread by people, so getting me lynched would be hard task for mafia, especially when game so stall, so yes, i'm prime target, and announcing it i play WIFOM on mafia kill tonight (in case we got doc).

Could you describe me scumhunting, so i would know what i supposed to do, since you say i haven't done it yet, i'll be grateful

Was it another newbie game, that Nyd mentioned? Cause i had impression it wasn't, and i'm not going compare IC actions in normal and newbie games

At this point, why haven't you voted Pep for misinterpreting what you are saying to try to make you look bad?

[Alisae]

Starting to fly by this thread even faster and skim more stuff becuase of my short attention span.

I'd rather lynch all lurkers and lose than mislynch 3 actives and lose to lurkers. But we aren't going to do that.

Ramcius explained what this wagon is for, and what would mean for the guy who hammers; And yet you are still against it that much, why?

Then why does DBW have your attention more then Pep at this time? And don't say that it's because he was prodded, I don't think this is the case.

[Alisae]

If we continue this way, we end up with 9 townies in here, since seems everyone is town in this game So maybe start suggesting lynch targets, not just defending everyone, and i say that to all, cause deadline is coming, and i still don't like Nys, nothing make sense to me from town POV, he changes his position all the time, first he say we shouldn't lynch DBW (ignoring me and Charloux clearly stating we just want DBW talk, not lynch), going same even after i explain several times we not going lynch DBW, and he was lining lynches there, after he agreed and said both mafia are in 3 lurking people (weird statement from town), he's case on Accountant make no sense, something he found in other Accountant game, and we should now go and find that game, cause he didn't said what was different in that game from other 9 Accountant town games, and why here it's similar to that scum game, he inconsistent in all he do, yes, he said he changes his minds all time, but he was holding on DBW lynch idea so hard despite telling him no one is going lynch

Honestly, just your first sentence seems scummy...

better show me your scumhunting skills, since you told last time i haven't done any scumhunting, and that was a joke, and if you read tread, you may understand, or maybe not, probably you read already, but still have no idea what going on and where we are at this point...

Have you done any scumhunting? I might not be able to read tbh. Tho atm you are just disscusing Since I don't think I have actually questioned your scumhunting skills in my last post. I did ask a question that did not get answered. You go to the same stupid thing you asked me last time a asked you something.

not last post, but last time, before you was gone long enough to be proded, and i'm waiting your scumhunting lessons, show me, find scums

Well, why should I, it seems you have everything under control

VOTE: Pepchoninga
This concludes my wrap up. Pep shows no interest in scumhunting. Doing reads now.

[Alisae]

My reads goes as follows.
Scum: Pep
Other potential scum: Nyd, DBW, Charloux
Town: Ramcius, Mewtaph, Accountant, myself.

Pep has been lurking up to this point. And you may think it's due to inactivity, but I doubt that. Like he's posting in gaps, and if he was town, he's someone I'd expect to be more active and vocal. He's moreso reserved and safe leading up to his posts today. Also he shows no interest in scumhunting.
Not having anyone voted at this point in time tells me you have no real scum reads. This also goes for DBW, who's also lurking, except I don't know them. Either way I see them as a potential partner.
I can see Charloux being paired up with Pep easily. Charloux goes after lurkers but ignores Pep. This seems off to me.
As for Nyd, I'm following Accountant's reasoning and logic moreso then Nyd's on Accountant. Or they could just both be town, which I see happening.

[Alisae]

Also if DBW get's to L-1, I'll intent to hammer.

[Alisae]

So nydusher, let's have a talk. Why am I scum? You claim that you have legitimate reasoning other than the "them" thing, which everyone other than you thinks is silly. Let's hear it. Am I too passive? Is it that I'm not giving reads on you?

Well now I feel like you're not even listening to anything I'm saying.

Then explain it to me. Try to convince me.

[Alisae]

I probably scum read you for the same reason you scum read me. You've decided that I'm scum already and no matter how I explain to you my thought process, you just say "Oh I don't believe it."

I think this is a simple case of conf bias. Go re-read the thread or Accountant's ISO. Try to think if Accountant's thoughts are genuine and if they make sense. Also try to think "Is Accountant trying to plant paranoia in the town?" or "Is Accountant slipping information that they shouldn't have?" And if you can't answer those questions, question Accountant some more.

[Alisae]

Yeah, to be honest, I think you two are getting into a TvT fight, and ywall are super distracted on what is actually going on. So let's bring it ontopic here.

To the both of you, what are your reads on other players?

[Alisae]

Nyd. Stop. Let me be your soundboard. Talk to me. What are you going to accomplish by continuing to argue with Accountant? That he is scum and he should vote himself? If you were convincing other people, people would have hopped on the Accoutant Wagon. They aren't doing that. But for now, calm down. Reread the thread and/or Accountant's ISO with the following in mind:

I think this is a simple case of conf bias. Go re-read the thread or Accountant's ISO. Try to think if Accountant's thoughts are genuine and if they make sense. Also try to think "Is Accountant trying to plant paranoia in the town?" or "Is Accountant slipping information that they shouldn't have?" And if you can't answer those questions, question Accountant some more.

And then convince me. Why do you think Accountant is scum?

[Alisae]

That shadethrow tho...

On a side note Accountant, I'm not joining any of the wagons currently unless I have to intent to hammer DBW. So you're gonna have to convince me as well why nyd is scummier then Pep.

[Alisae]

So you are saying that anything I said when it came to reads on who is scum has had NO influence on you. Kay.

Describe what you just said about Accountant and all of your arguements agaisnt Accountant in 20 words or less.

[Alisae]

Ya know what I said earlier about not hoping onto any other wagons? Yeah....About that...

Lynch Nyd today, lynch Pep tomorrow.

VOTE: nydushermain

[Alisae]

Nyd, at this point, you're being anti-town. If you were town, you would want to coperate with people like me. But you're still attacking Accountant. You know it's not working. I don't think you even did what I told you to do with accountant. Additionally, you just want pressure to be off you, but there is no way that is happening currently. You put all the attention on yourself, but that would be good if you weren't attacking your IC the whole game and doing town things.

What is stopping you from voting DBW now if you want to hammer him so badly? I bet you were probably waiting for me to take that to L-1.

[Alisae]

Nyd, at this point, you're being anti-town. If you were town, you would want to coperate with people like me. But you're still attacking Accountant. You know it's not working. I don't think you even did what I told you to do with accountant. Additionally, you just want pressure to be off you, but there is no way that is happening currently. You put all the attention on yourself, but that would be good if you weren't attacking your IC the whole game and doing town things.

What is stopping you from voting DBW now if you want to hammer him so badly? I bet you were probably waiting for me to take that to L-1.

I'm not even the one instigating this fight. He's the one that's not backing down.

What is this? Third grade? If he is not backing down, that just says you have conf bias. And I'm pretty sure this is wrong anyways.

If you're going to take a step back, just do it.

[Alisae]

Accountant, what are your reads? I think I asked you this already, but you kept on giving your attention to Nyd.

[Alisae]

Accountant, what are your reads? I think I asked you this already, but you kept on giving your attention to Nyd.

Ramcius and Mewtaph strong town, Alisae townlean, DBW, Pep and Gamma null, Charloux scumlean.

Why the null read on Pep?

[Alisae]

Accountant, what are your reads? I think I asked you this already, but you kept on giving your attention to Nyd.

Ramcius and Mewtaph strong town, Alisae townlean, DBW, Pep and Gamma null, Charloux scumlean.

Why the null read on Pep?

Because he hasn't said anything indicative of alignment rather than newness to mafia.

Oh so it's mostly based off the fact that he's still new.
In that case, do you think I'm just being a bit harsh on him with my case on him or not?

[Alisae]

Why are you so afraid of giving me a yes or no answer?

Like I said, I think you're scummier than not but I'm open to the thought that it might be confirmation bias. If you want to keep harping on it, go ahead, but you're not doing any favours for town doing so.

You've been repeating yourself for the past 4 pages.

Accountant, you're not getting the answer you want out of him. It's obvious at this point.

[Alisae]

Why are you so afraid of giving me a yes or no answer?

Like I said, I think you're scummier than not but I'm open to the thought that it might be confirmation bias. If you want to keep harping on it, go ahead, but you're not doing any favours for town doing so.

You've been repeating yourself for the past 4 pages.

Accountant, you're not getting the answer you want out of him. It's obvious at this point.

I think it's ridiculously scummy that you don't think I've answered him already. I think that you have some weirdass bias towards accountant, whether you're scum and decided "I'm going to pick this side in the TvT" and you're deciding to completely ignore anything he's done to be scummy and ignoring anything I've done to be towny. OR, you were paying attention to reading the first half of the game and then when you got to the last couple pages, you just got lazy and skimmed through it all.

I think that it's ridiculously scummy that you are assuming that I don't think you answered him already. I said the answer that HE wanted not the answer you gave.
I also think that it's ridiculously scummy that you think that I think that this is a TvT. Why do you think my vote is on you.
And I definitely did get lazy and skim it.

[Alisae]

I don't know if it's a TvT but I think that if you're scum, it probably is. Why don't you push accountant if you think I've already answered him? Why don't you ask accountant "do you not think that this is a good enough answer?" It feels like you're not even looking at accountant as a player in the game at all and just gunning for me.

Because I think Accountant is town?
And you're flailing right now. I don't think there's a need to do that.
I really wanna get Peppy lynched, but I can't ignore how anti-town you're being at the moment. Not to mention I've been nodding along with Accountant this whole time.

I've given the answer that I think you're more mafia than you are town. Have you read above? You've even quoted me when I've said it.

What about the other players in the game? Do you think they are more mafia than town, too?

You, charloux, and now ali.

Pick 2 of those. 3 scum does not exist in one newbie.
And why me?

[Alisae]

We have many lynches, I'm allowed to have 3. Do you want me to artificially RNG one of you three into town reads?

LOL. XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.
You're gonna RNG them because what? They don't even matter to you at this point? Because you're scum and you don't care to scumhunt?

And dude, if you think I'm voting you because of Accountant, you are dead wrong. This post what made me go from "I'm not moving off Pep" to "lynch Nyd"

Can we just kill DBW and see what happens? I'm willing to be the hammer if there's a fourth vote.

The more you post the more you slip at this point.

[Alisae]

Yeah...Sarcasm doesn't go well when you're the person that has the most attention on them right now.

Saying that an IC sucks is honestly disrespectful. You wanna know why you dislike him? Because he's on to you. He's experienced. He knows what you are doing and what you are trying to do.

[Alisae]

If you find that video disrespectful, apologizes.

Either way, my point stands: you are constantly making slips at this point. If you are town, calm down. Take a break. Give Accountant an answer that is a yes or a no. And then reevaluate him. Because you're going off of conf bias at this point, and your frustration is causing you to pull out scum slips left and right.

[Alisae]

It makes more sense to re-evaluate then give him a yes or no answer. And when you do try to re-evaluate, keep the following in mind. I don't see the point in bothering trying to help someone if they don't want to be helped.

I think this is a simple case of conf bias. Go re-read the thread or Accountant's ISO. Try to think if Accountant's thoughts are genuine and if they make sense. Also try to think "Is Accountant trying to plant paranoia in the town?" or "Is Accountant slipping information that they shouldn't have?" And if you can't answer those questions, question Accountant some more.

[Alisae]

Also, I can find other reasons to think you're scum. I have plenty more. most of them tie back early game btw.

[Alisae]

I've given my thoughts on accountant potentially being town. If you're asking me to step back and reevaluate, reread the past couple of pages and see what's happening to me. I'm being attacked by people not willing to reevaluate at all and it's forcing me into a corner.

Two things. A. If you are town, me and accountant will both be willing to work with you. But first work with us.
B. In some situations, you won't always get everyone to like you. Sometimes people will interact with you, and then they'll be like "you're fine" and keep your vote on you. This is not because they think you are town, moreso they think that you are the person they want to lynch. If you are town, then I would like to work with you on getting the person who I want to get lynched, well, lynched. Which is Pep. But if you're scum, you're doing fine.

[Alisae]

Ya know what I said earlier about not hoping onto any other wagons? Yeah....About that...

Lynch Nyd today, lynch Pep tomorrow.

VOTE: nydushermain

Hey look, he's lining up votes.

#sarcasm

My case is solid, is it not?

[Alisae]

Pep, I know you're here and looking. If you're actually town, lynch this. He's just flailing at this point.

[Alisae]

Pep has been lurking up to this point. And you may think it's due to inactivity, but I doubt that. Like he's posting in gaps, and if he was town, he's someone I'd expect to be more active and vocal. He's moreso reserved and safe leading up to his posts today. Also he shows no interest in scumhunting.
Not having anyone voted at this point in time tells me you have no real scum reads.

So none of this seems scummy to you?

[Alisae]

People have their reasons to lurk. I lurk a lot on video mafia because sometimes, I'm simply just bored or not in the mood. I don't read him scummy for lurking on day 1. You say you'd expect him to be more vocal but there could be reasons as to why he's not talking much. Maybe it's awfully close to the holidays and he's doing things related to family. Who knows? Until he gives his own response, how am I supposed to read him for that?

If he was busy with family there was nothing stopping him from asking V/LA
If you're simply bored and not in the mood that's anti-town. You have to commit to mafia games you play.

[Alisae]

Also what? You've been reading this WHOLE time?

He's catching up and responding to earlier posts. I don't think he actually got to the part where I announced I catched up.

[Alisae]

Also what? You've been reading this WHOLE time?

He's catching up and responding to earlier posts. I don't think he actually got to the part where I announced I catched up.

Odd because if he's catching up and responding to earlier posts, why is he reading the current thread? Doesn't really look like he's diving back in time.

I'm sorry, can you rephrase the question. Like, rephrase the question as if you were speaking to a toddler. This seems really confusing to me.

[Alisae]

Also what? You've been reading this WHOLE time?

He's catching up and responding to earlier posts. I don't think he actually got to the part where I announced I catched up.

Odd because if he's catching up and responding to earlier posts, why is he reading the current thread? Doesn't really look like he's diving back in time.

I'm sorry, can you rephrase the question. Like, rephrase the question as if you were speaking to a toddler. This seems really confusing to me.

If he's looking back through the thread, and trying to catch up, I think it's interesting that he responded almost instantly to you calling him out. I think he might just be sitting back and waiting to see how the situation transpires. If he's really looking back and trying to catch up, and taking notes, etc., he shouldn't be constantly refreshing the current thread. He's lurking with a purpose.

Why are you assuming that he knew I called him out right away?
Also thats how I catch up. I posted my thoughts as I saw them.

@Pep

Code: Select all

[v]The Dude's name[/v]
[vote]dude's name[/vote]
[b]VOTE: dude's name[/b]

[Alisae]

Welcome to the wagon Ramcius! We're happy to have you. That's L-2 btw. If you're ever gonna make a lynch L-2 or L-1, it's better to say it. It's a nice habbit to get into.

Ramicus your thoughts on the case I presented on Pep?

[Alisae]

Nyd, the DBW wagon is now at L-3. You're at L-2. So that hammer most likely may never happen.

[Alisae]

Yo quote number 3: I would need you to explain me this since I don't really get it? How have I misinterpreting what he is saying?

It was directed towards Ramcius, not you.

[Alisae]

Welcome to the wagon Ramcius! We're happy to have you. That's L-2 btw. If you're ever gonna make a lynch L-2 or L-1, it's better to say it. It's a nice habbit to get into.

Ramicus your thoughts on the case I presented on Pep?

So since you're doing more than accountant in trying to get a wagon on me, what happens when I flip town? Do you ignore my reads completely and lynch pep tomorrow? Do you agree with my reads and lynch accountant? You say that you agree with accountant's case more than mine, but what happens when I flip town and it turns out that accountant's case is obviously wrong?

If you flip town, I still wanna get Pep lynched. Thinking that Pep and you are related is wrong. And quite frankly no one is at fault if you're town, because you're acting anti-town and you're flailing.

[Alisae]

So I'm still trying to get reads and my reads are updating. Accountant on the other hand has ONLY gone on me except when asked about other people. ONLY WHEN ASKED. So tell me again why I'm being anti-town. I've answered every question that people have asked me, and in the midst of all this, I AM STILL trying to read people.

Before I answer this, let's establish this real quickly. What do you think being Anti-town is and what is the difference between being Anti-town and being scummy?

[Alisae]

Welcome to the wagon Ramcius! We're happy to have you. That's L-2 btw. If you're ever gonna make a lynch L-2 or L-1, it's better to say it. It's a nice habbit to get into.

Ramicus your thoughts on the case I presented on Pep?

I don't trust other people meta, i mean, i only use my own experience from games with someone and that's it, just example from my other game in other place - i had strong read on someone, who literally refused do a shit, everyone said me stop, it's her meta, let it go, in the end, turned out she was SK, but i don't like Pep, he boast so much, call on everyone for not doing scum hunt, yet he says he don't care game that much to visit every day, even got proded, and still waiting him to do his scum hunt, but i agree on his lynch D2 (if i survive till then )

To be honest, in that situation I honestly feel like I would have done the same. And I understand both parties. SK is a lot like town in that it wants to get liked by everyone, including scum. So if she played by her meta it would be easy for her to win.
If someone litterally refuses to do shit, that's anti-town and scummy. I don't think they were the best players in that case.
And meta could be useful in someways. For example, if you know one player really does not like to bus scum, you can do PoE and end up finding them that way.

[Alisae]

My reads goes as follows.
Scum: Pep
Other potential scum: Nyd, DBW, Charloux
Town: Ramcius, Mewtaph, Accountant, myself.

Pep has been lurking up to this point. And you may think it's due to inactivity, but I doubt that. Like he's posting in gaps, and if he was town, he's someone I'd expect to be more active and vocal. He's moreso reserved and safe leading up to his posts today. Also he shows no interest in scumhunting.
Not having anyone voted at this point in time tells me you have no real scum reads. This also goes for DBW, who's also lurking, except I don't know them. Either way I see them as a potential partner.
I can see Charloux being paired up with Pep easily. Charloux goes after lurkers but ignores Pep. This seems off to me.
As for Nyd, I'm following Accountant's reasoning and logic moreso then Nyd's on Accountant. Or they could just both be town, which I see happening.

Your only real strong points are that I was innactive for a bit and that I'm not interested in scumhunting. Now let me tell ya, I am interested in scumhunting. Actually I'm trying to achieve that. Kinda hard when you can't really find a place in the disscussion till now. My prime targets till now were Accountatn and Ramicius. Two people you put as Town on your list. Yet you almost haven't touched on anything those 2 people have said till now. And there one of the most active people in the game till now. Most of the post I read from you are on my posts and going againt me. You have a personal agenta? Or you just want to get me out of the game as soon as possible since I'm gonna be the easiest target for you? Let me also point out that I hate when people just say that they are confirmed town in there opinion and put it like it's something normal. For me it's a veyr scummy move and one that should not be neglected. What makes you think you are a town?

You not voting should also be considered a valid point.
You have shown nothing to prove that you are scumhunting, and currently you're just defending yourself.
What about Ramicius seemed scummy to you?
I think your scum, and I want the town to win? That's sorta what I'm trying to do here.

And you're reading my reads wrong. You wanna know a tell I recently just learned? Scum trying to push things that aren't slips. Because scum LOVE having a justified vote. Saying that I am slipping for reading them as confirmed town is a mistake, becuase I am not reading them as confirmed town, I am reading them as I think they are town.

And what makes me think I'm town? My role pm.

[Alisae]

Nyd, when it comes to the Anti-Town and Scummy issue, I am going to let our IC answer that. Becuase he honestly can probably provide a better answer then I could.

[Alisae]

Agreed with the last sentence. I refrained from calling him a bitch but the cat's out of the bag now.

Again, apologies.

But either way, the fact that I am buddying Accountant is a legimate theory. I mean, if he flipped scum, then I'm surely fucked.
But right now I'm being cocky because I genunely think I found scum. Nyd just seems to be flailing at this point.

[Alisae]

Pep, I'm just gonna interpret that as an OMGUS vote. Also the fact that I'm not defending myself from your accusations makes me think you're even more scummy then you already are. Who says I have to defend myself if I think scum is attacking me?
And instead of voting me, you could be civil and coperative and give me the reasons instead of making me ISO you for it.
And generally most people include themselves as town. That's just natural and good play.

[Alisae]

Pep, I'm just gonna interpret that as an OMGUS vote. Also the fact that I'm not defending myself from your accusations makes me think you're even more scummy then you already are. Who says I have to defend myself if I think scum is attacking me?
And instead of voting me, you could be civil and coperative and give me the reasons instead of making me ISO you for it.
And generally most people include themselves as town. That's just natural and good play.

What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you defend yourself? What if he's town? This is anti-town if you are town FYI. You're so blinded that you replace into a game, skim through a few posts and call someone scum and instead of trying to refute a point that someone makes against you, you just call them scummy and say nothing? You're ACTUALLY avoiding the question with zero answer, not a half answer like mine apparently.

If scum is attacking me, why would I argue with them? At the end of the day they're still gonna wanna lynch me.

Also, If town had a question they wanted me to answer so badly, they would ask it again and/or redirect me to the post in which they asked it. He's overeacting because I didn't answer it.

Also Pep, you're chainsawing yourself and Nyd.

[Alisae]

I'm still waiting for you to explain what was so anti-town about me that you felt the need to point it out in me versus what accountant was doing.

You are acting anti-town because you're flailing and you're frustrated. It's just coming off to me as rage and salt at this point.

[Alisae]

Pep, I'm just gonna interpret that as an OMGUS vote. Also the fact that I'm not defending myself from your accusations makes me think you're even more scummy then you already are. Who says I have to defend myself if I think scum is attacking me?
And instead of voting me, you could be civil and coperative and give me the reasons instead of making me ISO you for it.
And generally most people include themselves as town. That's just natural and good play.

What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you defend yourself? What if he's town? This is anti-town if you are town FYI. You're so blinded that you replace into a game, skim through a few posts and call someone scum and instead of trying to refute a point that someone makes against you, you just call them scummy and say nothing? You're ACTUALLY avoiding the question with zero answer, not a half answer like mine apparently.

If scum is attacking me, why would I argue with them? At the end of the day they're still gonna wanna lynch me.

Also, If town had a question they wanted me to answer so badly, they would ask it again and/or redirect me to the post in which they asked it. He's overeacting because I didn't answer it.

Also Pep, you're chainsawing yourself and Nyd.

Do you think you have the game solved the moment you replace? That's absurd if you're that cocky and you need to take a step back and look at whatever you're doing in life. Do you have a red check on pep? Do you think he's 100% scum? What about the fact that he said that he wasn't posting because of health issues? Is that not something to consider?

I actually didn't have it solved at all when I replaced in. I just read the thread, found one scum, and then watched you flail and found another. You solved the game for me if you're scum.

If he was posting due to health issues, I feel as if it would have been in his best interest to say so. But fine, if you're saying I can't harp on him for it then simply put I won't.
Also you're chainsawing Pep.

Also Accountant to me is town due to PoE and he seemed as if he was genuinely trying to solve the game.

[Alisae]

What I mean by chainsawing is that you are defending another player by attacking them.

And as scum, currently right now It could be. It could also be read as genuine frustration, but we've gone a bit too far for that to be possible. Not to mention you slipped multiple times.
Honestly when I'm under pressure, I panic a lot because if I feel as if the pressure is hard enough when I'm town, I dunno how to handle that. It's very possible. It's also something you'll learn to overcome as you learn more and become more experienced. I'm still learning. I'm trying to learn how to deal with pressure.

[Alisae]

First off, your feelings, like one saying you hate the IC is a slip. It shows that you've been caught.

We have many lynches, I'm allowed to have 3. Do you want me to artificially RNG one of you three into town reads?

This shows that you don't really care about your scum reads because you have no interest in scum hunting. Another slip.
And the fact you even just wanted DBW hammered as soon as possible is another slip.

And asking me to think about it in your perspective is AtE.
The pressure thing was to help you understand that we aren't all perfect players, there are things we need to work on, and over time we'll get better at the game. It has nothing to do with this current game. Becuase qutie frankly you stoppped convincing me that Accountant is scum a long time ago. So I feel as if there is no real pressure on me at the moment. There is a ton of pressure on you, and right now you are freaking out.

[Alisae]

No I'm not overeacting. But we are making such a big deal since nys didn't answer a question which I admit has truth to it, but you think that it is more then well to not try and counter my accusation? Why is that?
My vote is is not OMGUS. I have my suspicions on me. Gonna explain them again since clearly you weren't paying enough attention.

First you came in and started going trough posts. Most of the were either pointless in my opinion or post directly against me. During several pages you were just trying to collect enough arguments to get a solid reason to lynch me. Didn't you say that is exactly what mafia liked. But yet, you couldn't really get solid reasons since I hadn't given enough material to work on till then. All you could do was line up that since I wasn't active enough and I usually am, I'm definetely scum. Also me apperantly not scumhunting is also making me scum. Okay tell me what if I don't necessarily scumhunt. Then I'm 100% scum? What If I'm gathering information about the people who are more active and then like what I did come in and start a push against them? Yes, this is not exactly what happened with me, since reasons I have explained but still it is a possibility. Also for me a good scum will definetely be scumhunting since it is good for his discuise. His goal will obviously be to get a misslynch on Town but this doesn't change the fact he is scum. So having me not scumhunting as one of your leading arguments for a lynch is also dumb. Your next argument is that I haven't lynched anybody yet? Even if I didn't lynch you it's again pretty dumb argument.

On the other side you didn't say anything on Accountant. You just instantly became his best partner and was even ready to give up on your personal target (me) to go after his which was already pretty pressured by Accountant (Ny). Even if Accountant is town this is pretty scummy since I'm more and more leaning on having ny as a sure town. Also you going all cocky on the guy after seing that he clearly got frustarted is just a really dissrespectfull and definetely not a town action.

This is why I lynched you. Overall I think I have a better base for a lynch then you

The not voting one is kinda big as well because to be 13 pages within the game and not have atleast 1 or 2 scum picks that you want to lynch looks bad. 13 pages day 1 is a lot for a newbie game. So is 20.

You not scumhunting means that you're not trying to make an effort to blend in with the town. You're not trying to look town. Therefore you look scummy.

Accountant didn't pressure me, Nyd basicly said "I just want to lynch this person" without voting them and that caused me to switch wagons.

Going to bed now so the other people can catch up. For those who see this as the latest post, Nyd basicly flailed for 7 pages straight.

[Alisae]

If Accountant is scum, I would have no idea who his scum buddy would be.
If Nyd is scum, his partner would be pep.

[Alisae]

@Gamma Emerald: NAI

I did a re-read. ny is null. Alisae is scum. Will explain why when I get to a computer.

VOTE: Alisae

Also this vote is cute and I will wait for the explanation.

[Alisae]

If Accountant is scum, I would have no idea who his scum buddy would be.
If Nyd is scum, his partner would be pep.

Please point out pep/ny associations.

BTW Gamma, starting to think you're moreso town.

Pep is mostly defending nyd by attacking me.

[Alisae]

Also Accountant, there is no way I'm buying the fact that you think that Nyd is town after going after him for so long unless you got good reasons. And you should also explain how me and Nyd are partners.

Nyd being self-conscious and think that he's gonna get lynched is also scummy to me. It's like he has no confidence and seems like he's given up.

[Alisae]

Oh wait misread, you don't think he's town. Gotcha. in that case nvm the first line.

[Alisae]

Honestly I belive that either you and Accountant are mafia, or on of you is. If you end up as town, Accountant is basically confirming being mafia tbh (off course this all depends on what he gives as an explanation on his sudden lynch on Alis).

All and all you are not even giving any solid defence or trying to convince anybody of your innocence...why?

Explain Accountant being scum no matter what. And if you think that Accountant is scum no matter what, why is your vote on me not him?

I'm not defending myself because I have no reason to believe I'm getting lynched. Pressure doesn't work if I don't believe that I am getting lynched.

[Alisae]

No, answer my question. You're not dodging this. Explain Accountant being scum no matter what and explain why your vote is on me not him if you think he is scum no matter what.

[Alisae]

Honestly I belive that either

you and Accountant are mafia, or on of you is

. If you end up as town,

Accountant is basically confirming being mafia

tbh (off course this all depends on what he gives as an explanation on his sudden lynch on Alis).

All and all you are not even giving any solid defence or trying to convince anybody of your innocence...why?

Explain Accountant being scum no matter what. And if you think that Accountant is scum no matter what, why is your vote on me not him?

Stop avoiding my question. Refusal to restate why is a scum claim.

You are not giving any possibility here, you're just saying things for what they are.

[Alisae]

Also sometimes I recall having seen IoA in some of Pep's posts.

I don't care which one of my two targets gets lynched, as long as they do, because I believe they are both scum.
VOTE: Pepchoninga

Also bussing is common here.

[Alisae]

Charloux, I feel like I've established that I'm okay between going between the two wagons because I think they're both scum and scum needs to get lynched.

[Alisae]

Gamma, what are your reads currently. If me, you, and Accountant work together we can clearly gamesolve this.

[Alisae]

Charloux, I feel like I've established that I'm okay between going between the two wagons because I think they're both scum and scum needs to get lynched.

I'm not pointing fingers yet, it's just a feeling you get when something unnaturally happened. You switched wagons because there was no point in staying on Nyd's wagon, right? You stated your lynch targets before the wagon dissipated and i don't think you could predict Gamma's and pepcho's behavior so you could prepare beforehand. Nothing wrong i see here.

I switched wagons because I want to lynch scum and I'm okay with either of them being scum at this point. I was origonally on the Nyd wagon because he just seemed desperate for pressure to get off of him as soon as it could.

[Alisae]

Actually Pep, I'm not even bothering dealing with your push. I'll deal with Accountant's push when that comes.

[Alisae]

Oh so you come to my game just like that and now say I'm not a good enough treat for you to deal with? Like ignore the game I'm mad enough at you anyways, like suck it lol.

AtE.
And I'm not gonna fight you because no matter how hard I convince you, at the end of the day you will still keep your vote on me because you're scum

[Alisae]

I think it's more due to pride to not admit you are wrong rather than alignment indicative. And if you are so much better than him, why not make him look more scummy by debating with him? You don't need to convince him anything, you just have to make him look scummy thus convincing "town" that he is scum. Think of it as a warm-up so you at least put up a fight against Acc

This is fair, but if you think I'm wrong, would you like to prove that Pep and/or Nyd are town if not town not scum?

[Alisae]

Yeah well, why am I scum? This is the question you cannot seem to answer for 7 pages lol

You had no vote for the majority of the game.
You're posts prior to your attack on me are very passive, safe, and contrived.
You're offering IoA, and AtE
You overeacted to me not responding to you instead of reasking me the question by voting me.
And you verball tell everyone that you're mad at me because I replaced in.

[Alisae]

Again most of those are just dumb really? Firstly I could've just putten random lynches like everybody else and it would still be practically the same because a lynch on DBW is basically that.

My posts prior to your attack are very little for you to judge on them and once again I will say I have more then good reason to not be as active also I didn't know at the time you could take brakes. I become more active before you joining the game.

I didn't overeat, I was just annoyed how you made a big fuss that Ny didn't respond to one of Accountants questions while you didn't answer to like 10 of mine. Your argument was that you though I was mafia. Well Ny thought the same thing about Accountant.

My verbal is completely off of the game, you jouning my game was something completely moral related especially after you were the one that kept pushing me to come and post more and all that. Youju St wanted to come here and enjoy lynching the hell out of me and this has been very clear to me since your first posts. From the beginning you have been laying the hammer on me. If anything you made this game obviously disscusting and its not because you go after me, but because you just joined without asking how would I feel.

It's easy for scum to discredit, it's harder for scum to argue why it's wrong.
Voting in RVS would have made you look better then you currently do.
DBW is currently a suspect if I'm wrong about Nyd.
And what is that reason? Don't say it's because of health issues, thats a cop out (as much as I hate saying it is), and if it were true I feel as if you would have mentioned it while you were lurking, becuase as town there's no reason to hide that from everyone else.
And you didn't bother to ask them again now did you?
Um, you saying you disliked the fact that I joined the game is a slip. I feel like you would have reacted differently to that if we were both the same alignment.

[Alisae]

Also nyd, why did you assume that we would just lynch you instead of leaving you at L-1 to claim?

[Alisae]

I am going to sleep now, so yeah.

About not posting you can say all you want I can't make you belive me I am still ill and all that, what I can make you belive is I hadn't read almost anything till the time I really started to play more, till then I read the things and just wrote the first things that popped to mind which was against Aacountant and Ramicius.

Tell me if I ask you the same question that really now wouldn't matter, would you answer them? Now that you are sure you are out of danger and you have genuine support you won't be lynched? Because yes, it does seem like that. You are not open to anything you haven't made a single action without waiting for somebody to start the wagon you almost never say anything new or try and contribute in finding new things for town. No, you just follow in people's footsteps and do what they do and try to monitore them inti a misslynch. Exactly a mafia meta. Here is a question - explain to me why you think this is bullshit?

Yeah well maybe I would've reacted differently if I knew your alliance. If I was town it is more then normal for me to act like that. Frustrated since you are ruining my game in a sence you don't seem to appreciate at all. If I was mafia I wouldn't be so bothered since you are town and I probably wouldn't risk going in an argument with you seing that you were trying to go on me from the start. If we were partners we wouldn't be having this conversation, or at least not in this way.

I know you're il, I believe you on that. What I'm saying is that I don't think your illness is the real reason why you're lurking. Because if it was you wouldn't be hiding it from everyone else.

And I would answer them if you asked me again. Because that's what good townies do.
And my single action was voting you. I was the first player to bring you up. Thinking I'm following in other people's footsteps now is a mistake because that's implying that I'm voting them because someone else voted them, not because I found a reason to vote them.
Self analying yourself is self-conscious as fuck. And why would I be ruining your game if you were town?

[Alisae]

Because if it was you wouldn't be hiding it from everyone else.

How has he been hiding it? From what I've seen so far Pep has been fairly open about the whole thing.

Go back to his earlier posts before the 19th and notice how they are super spaced out. I'm refering to these.

[Alisae]

Yeah! I have a question.

What mostly made me switch from "Hey, stop fighting" to "You're scum" is this post.

Can we just kill DBW and see what happens? I'm willing to be the hammer if there's a fourth vote.

How does this seem town or even null to you?

Also, why would scum me be grilling Pep and Nyd as hard as I am?
Also why would scum me stop pushing Nyd now, cause currently I much rather push a Pep lynch then a nyd lynch.

[Alisae]

Yeah, I think Accountant is solid town as well.

[Alisae]

secondly being provocative towards someone who you know responds badly under pressure is a textbook scum tactic(see Mini Normal 1825 where gameplay506 provokes rb as scum) to make them look even worse and get an easy mislynch. The speed seems artificial and makes me think it's a scum tactic rather than a natural progression of reads.

Also, isn't this what exactly you were doing with your extensive questioning?

[Alisae]

also, Accountant have point with buddying, Alisae said "if Accountant flipps scum, i will be in trouble", she just came and trust Accountant so much? And i like that quote to make Nyd scummy for wanting DBGW dead, when Alisae wanted hammer DBW too, if there was 4th vote, without giving any reason to lynch him

A. I would have been willing to intent to hammer him if he was one of my scum reads.
B. The whole buddying issue and "If he flipped scum, I would be in trouble" is a whole bunch of WIFOM

[Alisae]

Also, if I did bring DBW to L-1, I feel as if Nyd would have hammered him out of frustration of what was going on to end the day and not give him time to claim.

Also the day is ending soon, ywall need to find a lynch. I'm suggesting Pep, but if you wanna mislynch me that's fine if it gets Pep lynched the next day.

[Alisae]

Like, before I intented to hammer DBW, I would have talked to him a bit, interacted with him, asked him a few questions, and probably end up letting him go since to me people are scummier then he is.

[Alisae]

Ram what are your thoughts on the Pep wagon?

[Alisae]

Like, before I intented to hammer DBW, I would have talked to him a bit, interacted with him, asked him a few questions, and probably end up letting him go since to me people are scummier then he is.

So, you telling me you didn't cared for reasons why DBW had wagon on him? Cause he don't give a shit, and he don't want talk, we tried nicely, we tried put at L-2, no reaction, and it would come night sooner than you get answer from him, you noticed Pep activity, but totally ignored DBW absence

Those are part of my reasons, but I thought ywall were focusing on DBW, Pep was basicly doing the samething up to a period of time. Another one of my reasons was that he wasn't voting anyone at the time meaning he had no notable scum reads.

I definetly did notice it.

Plus, I don't think DBW would even respond that will to it being at L-1, I think he would still continue to lurk.

[Alisae]

Like, before I intented to hammer DBW, I would have talked to him a bit, interacted with him, asked him a few questions, and probably end up letting him go since to me people are scummier then he is.

So, you telling me you didn't cared for reasons why DBW had wagon on him? Cause he don't give a shit, and he don't want talk, we tried nicely, we tried put at L-2, no reaction, and it would come night sooner than you get answer from him, you noticed Pep activity, but totally ignored DBW absence

Those are part of my reasons, but I thought ywall were focusing on DBW, Pep was basicly doing the samething up to a period of time. Another one of my reasons was that he wasn't voting anyone at the time meaning he had no notable scum reads.

I definetly did notice it.

Plus, I don't think DBW would even respond that will to it being at L-1, I think he would still continue to lurk.

And yet you call Nyd scum for wanting DBW dead, while you wanted hammer him too without having reason, and you knew he's inactive af, so your "i will talk first" not gonna work on him

I don't think you understand what intent to hammer means. Intent to Hammer means that if they were to be put at L-1, you would be the person to decide if they get lynched or not. First you would ask for their role, and then you would ask whatever you wanted to ask. Nyd saying "Can we just lynch this person already" is different then me saying "If this wagon were to get to L-1, I will intent to hammer it once I am satisfied with it." With that said, if I brought the DBW wagon to L-1, Nyd would have hammered and lynch someone who might be a townie. Do you really want a townie mislynched? Is DBW really that high on your scumlist not to consider Nyd, Pep, Charloux, or even Accountant if you think he is scum?

Also

Ram what are your thoughts on the Pep wagon?

[Alisae]

DBW isn't on my scumlist, i said i would be satisfied with PL DBW, if he stays inactive, Charloux not on my scumlist, Accountant i said i don't want lynch yet, so that leaves Pep and Nyd, and you ofc, and i said i'm ok with Pep lynch already, and we agreed lynch him tomorrow, if i stay alive over night

The wagon is on him currently, not nyd.

What makes you want to lynch me over pep currently?

[Alisae]

Also the people on the Pep wagon so far is me and Gamma.

[Alisae]

Gamma why only Ram? Why not everyone?

[Alisae]

Nah I know that. But wouldn't you want to welcome anyone onto this wagon with open arms?

[Alisae]

Alright Nyd, I'ma go take a shower and writing a stronger case on you. For the meanwhile talk to me, what do you think of Gamma's reason to hop on the Pep wagon? What seemed town to you about Pep's play? Why do you still want to lynch DBW over Pep? Why would you want to lynch someone you feel like is town (refering to lynching DBW over me who you just said so yourself is town)?
Unless you don't wanna bus your partner that is.

[Alisae]

Ram answer this as well.

what do you think of Gamma's reason to hop on the Pep wagon?

[Alisae]

Ram answer this as well.

what do you think of Gamma's reason to hop on the Pep wagon?

Cause he scum and want misslynch? He so elusive, i can't read him at all

I'm not saying what do you think his reason could be. I'm asking you what is your opinion about the reason that he gave. Which are quoted below:

Not avoiding any question, bote ^^ I said I belive either you 2 are both the mafia (which was my initial thought), a thing that seeing Accountants action on deciding to lynch you seems highly unlikely, or one of you is - keep in mind this is only my thoughts.

So yeah, till Accountant gives his thoughts I ain't answering any more "stupid" questions (excuse the word but I found it most appropriate). Continueing to do so is a scum claim. A desperate one at that.

I don't like this post. Pep's posting recently has felt terrible.
VOTE: Pepchoninga

Your posting kinda feels like you are promoting false dichotomies.

[Alisae]

Of course, there may be some more reasons he didn't state, but thats teh reason I remember him stating.

[Alisae]

Ram, who seems the least scummy in your scumreads. Me or Pep? And why?

[Alisae]

And I just noticed that DBW only has 8 posts...This bothers me...A lot. I still want to stick with my day 1 lynch on Pep, but I'ma go re-evaluate him. Maybe Nyd is actually town. I need to re-evaluate these two.

Fun question:
Pep, DBW, Nyd. What do you three think of the other two on the list?

[Alisae]

Ram, who seems the least scummy in your scumreads. Me or Pep? And why?

i don't see Pep that scummy tbh

Howso?

[Alisae]

Nyd it's a common question I see people ask on here. They put your name next to two others and then ask you the question. In this case your name is next to DBW and Pep.

[Alisae]

What I thought was towny of pep was something he did early I think (not sure if this is the case). Anyways, I also liked that he was defending me but after rereading, I realize that it might be scum!pep defending me to chainsaw himself.

I never said pep was mafia. DBW just seems like the way the lynch should go today tbh.

I never said DBW was town either, I said that pep was initially townie to me.

What did Pep do early?
I never that you said that Pep was maf, I'm asking why do you want to lynch DBW over Pep.
And I never said that you said that DBW is town. You said that I was town, so if you think that I am town, why would you want to consider lynching me?

[Alisae]

Also Nyd, let me ask you another question. As scum, what is your opinion in bussing your partner? Have you ever done it before?

[Alisae]

Correct me if I'm wrong Alis but atm you are just trying waist time and try to get out of the situation with asking stupid mostly non-related questions. Why don't you actually make a defence or a strong case on me or Ny in this time?

Not really wasting time. Day is gonna end when it's gonna end. It's not like me posting anything will make it decrease.

With that said, nice fluff.
With that said, what makes you think they're stupid?
With that said, what do you think I am doing?

[Alisae]

What is stupid about asking non-related questions? How are they non-related?
You're not getting out of this that easily.

[Alisae]

secondly being provocative towards someone who you know responds badly under pressure is a textbook scum tactic(see Mini Normal 1825 where gameplay506 provokes rb as scum) to make them look even worse and get an easy mislynch. The speed seems artificial and makes me think it's a scum tactic rather than a natural progression of reads.

Also, isn't this what exactly you were doing with your extensive questioning?

There's a difference between questioning someone you think is scum and questioning someone to provoke them.

Alright. Is there a specific moment in which I started focusing moreso in provoking him than extensively question them?
Besides 397. That was kinda far.

And don't you think Nyd is Buddying Pep or Pep is buddying Nyd?

[Alisae]

Yeah! I have a question.

What mostly made me switch from "Hey, stop fighting" to "You're scum" is this post.

Can we just kill DBW and see what happens? I'm willing to be the hammer if there's a fourth vote.

How does this seem town or even null to you?

Also, why would scum me be grilling Pep and Nyd as hard as I am?
Also why would scum me stop pushing Nyd now, cause currently I much rather push a Pep lynch then a nyd lynch.

It's a really wonky post, but I think that's just the way nyd plays. It's consistent with how I would expect him to act if he's town. It's not even his scummiest post so far - I've felt that way before myself as town. I don't see why this one post made him skyrocket in your reads.

Where is Mewtaph?

It made me skyrocket because at this point it just seemed like he wanted you to get off his tail. Like he didn't know how to actually fight against you.

[Alisae]

B. The whole buddying issue and "If he flipped scum, I would be in trouble" is a whole bunch of WIFOM

No it's not. Buddying the IC is pretty much standard scum play. I've been buddied many times by scum before. By saying "if [Accountant] flipped scum, I would be in trouble" you're acknowledging that you're essentially placing all your trust in the hope I am town, and I don't see why. I'd expect a townie to be more paranoid than that, especially as I am the IC and can fake being town easily as scum.

What makes you think I'm buddying you because your the IC?

[Alisae]

Pep I thought was townie because he came to the conclusion that accountant was scummy based on a similar reason to mine. It didn't seem like a sheep either so we were thinking the same way.

Do you think Pep is trying to buddy you?

[Alisae]

Pep I thought was townie because he came to the conclusion that accountant was scummy based on a similar reason to mine. It didn't seem like a sheep either so we were thinking the same way.

Do you think Pep is trying to buddy you?

I could definitely see scum!pep doing it, not because he's trying to buddy me, but because you're going after him. I see like this kind of strategy where if he defends me successfully, he's always behind me in the lynch list if the fight between me and accountant continues. I dunno, it's a dumb answer I think because that's me saying it under the assumption that he's scum where if I assume he's town, he could just be defending me because of a scum read on you and accountant who were at the time attacking me.

Gamma, does this look like buddying to you, or am I just going crazy?

[Alisae]

Yeah! I have a question.

What mostly made me switch from "Hey, stop fighting" to "You're scum" is this post.

Can we just kill DBW and see what happens? I'm willing to be the hammer if there's a fourth vote.

How does this seem town or even null to you?

Also, why would scum me be grilling Pep and Nyd as hard as I am?
Also why would scum me stop pushing Nyd now, cause currently I much rather push a Pep lynch then a nyd lynch.

It's a really wonky post, but I think that's just the way nyd plays. It's consistent with how I would expect him to act if he's town. It's not even his scummiest post so far - I've felt that way before myself as town. I don't see why this one post made him skyrocket in your reads.

Where is Mewtaph?

It made me skyrocket because at this point it just seemed like he wanted you to get off his tail. Like he didn't know how to actually fight against you.

Actually both are true. I definitely wanted pressure off me because it was irritating me because I didn't feel like the pressure was just. I also have zero idea how to push a lynch in forum mafia. You're not reading my intent correctly, but not my alignment. I think you're probably town as I've stated before.

Which in that case, it's definitely something you'll learn overtime as you play more and get more experience.
I'm still learnin to be honest

[Alisae]

Pep I thought was townie because he came to the conclusion that accountant was scummy based on a similar reason to mine. It didn't seem like a sheep either so we were thinking the same way.

Do you think Pep is trying to buddy you?

I could definitely see scum!pep doing it, not because he's trying to buddy me, but because you're going after him. I see like this kind of strategy where if he defends me successfully, he's always behind me in the lynch list if the fight between me and accountant continues. I dunno, it's a dumb answer I think because that's me saying it under the assumption that he's scum where if I assume he's town, he could just be defending me because of a scum read on you and accountant who were at the time attacking me.

Gamma, does this look like buddying to you, or am I just going crazy?

Buddying who?

Either Nyd buddying Pep
or Pep buddying Nyd.
Or both.

[Alisae]

Ah okay, yeah I am just going crazy in that case.

Also Nyd, why are you self-analyzing yourself? It's very off putting.

[Alisae]

Alis you are looking for a thing to lach on atm, I don't see why. You have definetely succeded in taking the disscusion away from you.

I will say Ny, that I'm not really defending you. What I do is analyze you get a possibility of what you allingment is and then use the attack of Accountant and Alise to determine who imo is more likely to be a scum since I still belive one of them is and that is for me is Alis.

You know bote it's funny how you talk abou buddying when you are basically the one who does this from when you joined the game. First you buddy the IC who had a strong offence on another active player in Ny, then you saw me who was going against you and exactly when Gamma lynched me you started buddying him. What it seems you are doing is trying to get to the better people in the game and eliminate the "newer" players from behind there backs.

Not at all, I'm sure Accountant is gonna respond to my stuff.
I'd say you're chainsawing Nyd. You're not blantantly defending him, but you are attacking me because I was attacking him.
I'm not buddying Gamma, I'm consulting him on a situation which I didn't understand what Nyd was trying to convey. He just relaunched a wagon I wanted to start earlier.

[Alisae]

And yes lol, you are buddying Gamma, read your stuff

No. You don't tell me to reread my shit. If you wanna say shit, you have to prove it first.

[Alisae]

Pep is at L-3. Gamma and my votes are the votes that are currently on him.
Accountant and Ram is currently on me.

I dunno about the rest.

[Alisae]

And Pep, I'm at L-2.

[Alisae]

Also Accountant. Why would scum!Alisae want to dissolve your fight with Nyd to begin with?

And what do you not like about the Pep wagon?

[Alisae]

I assumed you didn't like it because you didn't hop on.
Tho you did just bring Mewtaph back into my sights.

[Alisae]

Accountant he hasn't posted on the thread within 2 days. If anything he'll just get a prod from the mod.

[Alisae]

Nyd come join the Pep wagon! We have a nice, comfy seat for ya.

[Alisae]

aww, wynaut? We got cookies.

[Alisae]

Nyd why are you so against a Pep lynch?

[Alisae]

I'm not. I'd just feel guilty if the person defending me flipped town.

People who tend to be on a wagon that is on scum usually do get town cred.

[Alisae]

i just love how Gamma and Alisae try persuade people join Pep wagon without trying prove he's scum anymore, just begging lynch him

We are persuading people. We're asking them why they don't like the wagon or why they don't think Pep is that scummy.
Speaking of which, why would you want to lynch me over Pep?
it's safe to say that Pep has been buddying Nyd by defending him.

[Alisae]

Ramicius problem is Alis and as it seems Gamma too don't actually have any good leads on me. Alis just want to push for a mysslinch. Gamma is either just hopping on it to see what happens or is scum himself.

Also let me remind you I haven't defended Nyd and if I did it definitely wasn't a buddy request. If I defneded him it was to get a stronger case on you and/or Accountat. You are just trying to pull something out of fingers.

Also you talk about Gamma like you are the best buddies and fight crime together. Are YOU buddying him, or are you both crime buddies. Since it didn't seem like he wanted to latch to somebody the way you have seen from the start of the game.

We do. Why do you think I'm asking people why they think you might be town? So that I can show them why they should vote for you.
The 2nd line sounds exactly what chainsawing is like. You want to get on Nyd's good side so you go attack Accountant and me for it.
How is Gamma trying to get on my good side and how am I trying to get on Gamma's good side?

[Alisae]

Ram you're not answering my question. Why do you think Pep is towner then I am?

[Alisae]

Eh, actually you did, but I'm sorta still gonna ask you why do you think Pep is towner then I am?
Like, when you interacted with him he has blatantly admitted to not wanting to scumhunt himself and that he wanted to let you scumhunt for him.

[Alisae]

Also Ram, another question.
Why would Scum!Alisae act as the voice of reason between Accountant and Nyd?

[Alisae]

Also why would town Pep say this?

Yes, dear old (not) friend (Don't take this as anything personal other people, I just know this little cracker and I'm mad he joined my game lol)

[Alisae]

Ram and Mewtaph, the same question goes to you two.

[Alisae]

Here, I'll do mine real quickly.

God Tier Reads

Litterally Me Tier

: Me

I'm not touching this shit today)

: Gamma, Accountant, Ramicus

Probably not touching today

: Mewtaph, Charloux

Will consider touching today

: DBW, Nyd

Needs rope

: Pep

[Alisae]

While I do scumread Charloux, he and DBW are one of my weaker scumreads. I much rather go after my strongest scum read, Pep.
And with his tests and stuff, there's no way we're gonna be able to get claim out of him if someone decided to lolflashwagon him.

The only reason why I really scumread him is for these posts.

I end up being a burden to town in most of my games, i feel kind of pathetic.
There is a way for my actions so far to be seen as town, but most people here are too paranoid to think about it. Now then, telling the whole truth will reduce the chance of town winning a lot. Getting myself lynched would have the same effect, so i think i'll risk it and hope i don't get lynched.

This feels very self-conscious.

I'd rather lynch all lurkers and lose than mislynch 3 actives and lose to lurkers. But we aren't going to do that.

Ramcius explained what this wagon is for, and what would mean for the guy who hammers; And yet you are still against it that much, why?

Currently when he said this he had his vote on DBW. There was a LOT of attention on DBW. Like, he was at L-3. Pep had no attention on him the whole game.


Also newbie question that will probably help everyone in the near future, Accountant what does it mean when someone says "Gun to my head (read here)"

[Alisae]

@alisae can you try to make a case on me? I still don't have anything from you or direct me to the post I missed. You keep calling me scum but I don't really think you have any reason?

I'm not trying to lynch you. At this point, I rather lynch Pep. With that said, a few questions.
A. Why are you giving me a bunch of busy work?
B. Why are you trying to get my attention away from Pep?

Also not a pro-town thing to ask.

[Alisae]

A. Touche...
B. I think it's an attempt to get my attention away Pep because if he wants a bigger case on him, people may end up buying it and lynch him instead of Pep. I much rather focus on trying to convince and show people why I think Pep is scum rather then showing why Nyd is scum.
C. It's not pro-town because to me it comes off as him saying "Hey, convince people to lynch me, show me where I fucked up."

[Alisae]

Mod didn't get page top.

-1 awesome points for him.

[Alisae]

Fine, give me a bit.

[Alisae]

I found this while re-reading your ISO.

I think that an accountant wagon would be good and maybe it doesn't have enough traction with just 1 person on it (me) so I think pepchoninga, if you voted on him, it would be very helpful.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT

[Alisae]

Gamma, look at the posts around it. Who is the one person that is not posting that he is talking to: Pep
It's like he is talking to someone who isn't there.
Gamma, am I just going crazy, or is he trying to buddy Pep or something. Like, they're defending each other, they want to vote with each other.
He's not asking anyone else. He's only asking Pep here.

Like, am I going crazy or what?

[Alisae]

Also Accountant you never answered my question about the "gun to my head" phrasing.

[Alisae]

Also Ram, another question.
Why would Scum!Alisae act as the voice of reason between Accountant and Nyd?

Did you? Last I saw you were trying real hard to get Nyd lynched cuz why not.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=325

[Alisae]

Eh, actually you did, but I'm sorta still gonna ask you why do you think Pep is towner then I am?
Like, when you interacted with him he has blatantly admitted to not wanting to scumhunt himself and that he wanted to let you scumhunt for him.

Never said or did that.

Our conversation was just provocative. We knew we are not getting anything useful from it. I belive I've done more then enough scum hunting now to suffice his suspension in that aspect.

In response to Ram saying that Pep should scumhunt:

Well, why should I, it seems you have everything under control

[Alisae]

Also why would town Pep say this?

Yes, dear old (not) friend (Don't take this as anything personal other people, I just know this little cracker and I'm mad he joined my game lol)

This is completely non-game related. As you know I depise the very thought you are playing in my game like that. Belive me I've excluded my personal feelings opabout you for now. This post is irrelevant to the game.

Feel like it would have been different you thought my slot was aligned with yours.

[Alisae]

Pep what are your reads?

Alisae - Scum
DBW - Potential Scum (mostly because he is lurking or not even considering playing the game anymore)
You - Scum leaning to null (Is that a thing?)
Ramicius - null leaning to Town
Chaloux - null leaning to Town
Gamma - null leaning to Scum
Mewtaw - Town

I think I missed one guy so if you see yourself just tell me and I will add you in.

You missed Nyd.

[Alisae]

My "answer" was completely full of sarcasm and it is blantly obvious.

Why is sarcasm pro-town again?

[Alisae]

In early game Nyd gave his readlists. This is seen in 23. These reads to me are super early and seem forced to me as if he's trying to pull a lot of effort to blend in. Also find it kind of interesting that this is the only time he actually posts reads until 296 not including saying that people are scummy or they're acting like town etc.
Also in 157 he calls out Accountant on his playstyle. And I honestly don't like this.

This is a fun one. 160
This is a very strange post. Let's take a look at it tho.
The person he is talking to is Pep.
Pep hasn't shown any signs of acitivty since his last posts, it was a few posts after this that he was prodded. Also Pep did not have a vote at the time.
The part that's strange here is this: He's only asking Pep.
It's like he doesn't care to convince everyone else at the time.
If Nyd is scum, I think he may have just sold out his scum budddy.

in 167 he admits to lieing which at that point is a policy lynch. Town have no reason to lie.

195 is interesting. He's looking into Accountant trying to find something on him. He really wants to try to find a vote that is justified on him. He is so determined to try to find this justified vote in Accountant's playstyle that he is digging through multiple games of his just to find something similar between the games he can pin Accountant on.

I am agreeing with Accountant on that his earlier interactions with Nyd about DBW is interesting to me. He's pinning Nyd as someone who wants to be read as town but also wants to sheep on lurker wagons. I totally agree with the fact that it doesn't really look like he cares. Post 352 shows this clearly. So does 390.

He's also self-analyzes himself a lot. To me this comes off as self-conscious. I feel like newb!scum would always think "Did I fuck up? Did I slip here?" Like, they would have this paranoid mentality, and I think Nyd is showing this paranoid mentality of always analyzing themselves and thinking that they probably slipped and fucked up somewhere.

239 may just be him questioning why Gamma has a Scum Read on Pep, but I dunno what about it, to me him asking about Pep just seemed forced to me. Like he's trying to buddy him but not buddy him at the same time. I don't get it, it's wierd to me. either way I don't like it.

291 made me lol'd. So did 394

352 is the post that made me want to vote him. At this point it seemed as if Nyd was trying to be desperate because Nyd couldn't handle pressure coming from Accountant's extensive questioning.
At this point the next 7 pages is him flailing because he didn't know how to deal with pressure.

381 is Nyd saying that I said that he never answered his question when really that was me letting Accountant know that he isn't going to get the answer he wanted.

390 confirms that he doesn't care about his scum reads. Even if this was his attempt to be sarcastic, it didn't read well.

Thats the case!

[Alisae]

My "answer" was completely full of sarcasm and it is blantly obvious.

Why is sarcasm pro-town again?

Sarcasm is not something that should consider either town or mafia.

Explain this.

[Alisae]

Ram you're not answering my question. Why do you think Pep is towner then I am?

i didn't said that, you should ask why you are scummier to me than Pep, and i gave answer, we should vote our most scumread people, not least townread, at some degree i could take this as a scumslip, you want look more towny than Pep instead making him more scummy than you

Fair.
Your thoughts on the case I brought up on Nyd?

[Alisae]

Oh yeah, Nyd is Town

Also explain the reasoning behind this read.

[Alisae]

B. I think it's an attempt to get my attention away Pep because if he wants a bigger case on him, people may end up buying it and lynch him instead of Pep. I much rather focus on trying to convince and show people why I think Pep is scum rather then showing why Nyd is scum.

So you think that nydushermain is trying to purposely get himself lynched to save Pep?

As stupid as that sounds, maybe.
I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would do that, but maybe.

[Alisae]

Also Accountant you never answered my question about the "gun to my head" phrasing.

What is this question?

Also newbie question that will probably help everyone in the near future, Accountant what does it mean when someone says "Gun to my head (read here)"

[Alisae]

@Alisae: Your position of "well, maybe that's what nyd did, as stupid as that sounds" is very unsure compared to your questuon of "why are you doing this?" which already presumes it is happening.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what he was trying to accomplish by asking me to state his case against him.

[Alisae]

Well Ramcius, you have 3 people to convince, and the deadline is 3 days from now. Good luck to you buddy

[Alisae]

Actually me not hoping on that wagon is basically the one thing that completely kills your me and Nyd buddy scum theory that you have so desperately tryid to force on all of us.

This doesn't kill my buddy theory at all.

In fact, usually in newbie games I find it common for scum not to be voting in pairs.

[Alisae]

Well Ramcius, you have 3 people to convince, and the deadline is 3 days from now. Good luck to you buddy

And here ladies and gentlemen is a clear cocky scum post. Bravo!

How is it scummy?

[Alisae]

Actually me not hoping on that wagon is basically the one thing that completely kills your me and Nyd buddy scum theory that you have so desperately tryid to force on all of us.

This doesn't kill my buddy theory at all.

To add to this, this was an attempt to buddy.

[Alisae]

Yeah, I'm not really sure what he was trying to accomplish by asking me to state his case against him.

Then why were you so sure his ulterior motive was to distract you from pep?

Furthermore, it's not unusual for someone to ask for a case on themselves so they can refute it. I did this myself in 336.

Yeah, you're right. I'm just being retarded at the moment when it came to that.
Gut feeling on his ulteriror motive. Probably was false.

[Alisae]

Well Ramcius, you have 3 people to convince, and the deadline is 3 days from now. Good luck to you buddy

3 days is a whole lot, and i have nowhere to rush, people still hesitant to lynch, close to deadline is time for push, and you doing good job for me, i might not even need do anything, keep it up

I don't think you understand something.
I feel as if I am in no danger of being lynched.

Question: If I was scum, wouldn't I have felt the need to attack Nyd right away instead of trying to start out as the voice of reason between the two at first?
I see no reason why scum would make an attempt to break up that fight.

[Alisae]

Well Ramcius, you have 3 people to convince, and the deadline is 3 days from now. Good luck to you buddy

3 days is a whole lot, and i have nowhere to rush, people still hesitant to lynch, close to deadline is time for push, and you doing good job for me, i might not even need do anything, keep it up

I don't think you understand something.
I feel as if I am in no danger of being lynched.

Question: If I was scum, wouldn't I have felt the need to attack Nyd right away instead of trying to start out as the voice of reason between the two at first?
I see no reason why scum would make an attempt to break up that fight.

oh, i know that very well, if you were, you would put more defense than "fair" to my last accusation, and i don't see any reason to push your lynch since i see people not interested at all in lynching you, DBW is getting lynched anyway, if he don't get replaced for inactivity, that's pretty clear, it's safest lynch, ofc people don't want lynch him just yet, but at end, it will be he with rope on neck

So DBW and me are your top 2 lynches I am assuming?

Also answer the question.

[Alisae]

AYYYYYYYYYY WATTUP. BRB catching up on the things I missed. If there are anythings that you want me to go over, want to ask me, ya know, all that good stuff. Once I finish catching up, I will happily give reads.
UNVOTE:

Noooo you changed avatars?

SHIIIIIIIIIIT.
I plan on changing back in a bit. Was just messing around in another game.

[Alisae]

@Mod I just noticed I'm not on the playerlist

[Alisae]

Alright Accountant, what's on your mind

[Alisae]

Also even tho I'm at L-2 and it's better to claim at L-1, much rather claim now.
VT.

[Alisae]

Also me saying "I'm confident in not getting lynched." and all of that stuff was me attempting to draw a NK so that I would get read as a PR.

[Alisae]

BTW Kyouko, if you hop on my wagon, I have a good feeling Nyd will hammer it even if it's at L-1.

[Alisae]

BTW Kyouko, if you hop on my wagon, I have a good feeling Nyd will hammer it even if it's at L-1.

I saw him talking about hammering the DBW slot because it was (is, as far as I've caught up) lurking but I think he was speaking out of frustration about lynching anyone. I doubt he would lynch his townreads, he seems to organize the game the way I do: push people one way or another away from a neutral line and be willing to compromise to lynch anyone who you aren't strongly TRing, even nulls, if necessary. Of course I'll keep working to sort nulls to get above my "lynch line" or figure out if they're likely scum but I think if pepchoninga, for example, were L-1 at this point he would not hammer pep. Pep's one of his strongest TRs where I'm reading

What makes you think I'm going to hop on your wagon out of curiosity? Did you do something naughty I haven't read yet?

Because for some reason people think I'm scum. Also I don't think Nyd would hammer Pep because of this:

Also Nyd, let me ask you another question. As scum, what is your opinion in bussing your partner? Have you ever done it before?

In video mafia yes. I don't think I've ever rolled scum on forum before though. I would never bus a partner if I only had 1 though unless it was a LYLO/MYLO situation.

Also, do you think this is wierd or nah?

Nyd come join the Pep wagon! We have a nice, comfy seat for ya.

Go away vile temptress! I'd like to note that DBW hasn't even voted anyone yet.

VOTE: pep[/unvote]

... I'm horrible at this.

VOTE: pep

This seat isn't actually that comfortable. You lied.

VOTE: DBW

Also look at the timestamps as well. I think they're like all less then a minute.

[Alisae]

Looks like Alisae sees the wagon on her other scumread is gaining traction and goes with that. Pep's scummier than nyd at the point I'm reading imo

I've done this before as town because at the time townreads were convincing to hop on a wagon on my 2nd scumread for that day.
Is it strange to swap onto a wagon from your top scumread to another top scumread?

[Alisae]

@MOD can DBW be prodded please?

[Alisae]

Ramicus I think you just have conf bias and you're just getting me distracted.
But if my lynch will get Pep and Nyd lynched, I'll fuckin take it.
Cuz they're my strongest scumreads.

[Alisae]

Ramicus I think you just have conf bias and you're just getting distracted.

Edit

[Alisae]

Also even tho I'm at L-2 and it's better to claim at L-1, much rather claim now.
VT.

If you know it's better to claim at L-1, why claim at L-2?

BTW Kyouko, if you hop on my wagon, I have a good feeling Nyd will hammer it even if it's at L-1.

[Alisae]

BTW PR discussion isn't something you talk about. Period.

And that's why we wait till L-1 to see if anyone claims before someone decides to hammer or not. If someone lolhammered they would be a policy lynch.

[Alisae]

Also Ram. Here's an assignment: Go re-read Pep's ISO and then tell me exactly what you think of him.

[Alisae]

Also Ram. Here's an assignment: Go re-read Pep's ISO and then tell me exactly what you think of him.

I don't have clear read on him, and i say one more time - i lynch VT claim at L-2 over blind shot, also, i don't buy all that "i was confident to attract night kill", you wouldn't claimed now with 1 more vote, and i don't see why mafia would kill you over me pr Accountant

Gun to your head Pep is ____
Fill in the blank.

Also rephrase this.

[Alisae]

I am forcing you to take a stance on Pep.
And that whole sentence that you posted.

[Alisae]

and you can't force me take stance on Pep, you lost all credibility on him in my eyes, when you forced me vote him for being sarcastic

No, I am forcing you to take a stance.
If it helps re-read his ISO.

I've asked you this 2 times now.

[Alisae]

Pep I don't care about pronouns

[Alisae]

I'm sorry but the avvie makes me think "she", as well as the username.

And my voice makes people think I'm a girl.
I'm not.

With that said, I really don't care about pronouns. What is this, 2016?
/rant

[Alisae]

and you can't force me take stance on Pep, you lost all credibility on him in my eyes, when you forced me vote him for being sarcastic

No, I am forcing you to take a stance.
If it helps re-read his ISO.

I've asked you this 2 times now.

what makes you think you have power to force me do so? And at this point no difference in seeing Pep null or town, so you literally force me to scumread him, could it be you bussing your buddy?

I am not forcing you to scumread him.
I am forcing you to take a stance on him.
I also want you to explain why you take this stance on him.

Stop avoiding the question.

Also you remember this?

Ram you're not answering my question. Why do you think Pep is towner then I am?

i didn't said that, you should ask why you are scummier to me than Pep, and i gave answer, we should vote our most scumread people, not least townread, at some degree i could take this as a scumslip, you want look more towny than Pep instead making him more scummy than you

You still think this is a slip?

[Alisae]

Also the fact that you think I got into a scum theater with Pep is laughable.
Scum would NEVER drill their scum partner down as hard I did. Especially with these setups.

[Alisae]

and you can't force me take stance on Pep, you lost all credibility on him in my eyes, when you forced me vote him for being sarcastic

No, I am forcing you to take a stance.
If it helps re-read his ISO.

I've asked you this 2 times now.

what makes you think you have power to force me do so? And at this point no difference in seeing Pep null or town, so you literally force me to scumread him, could it be you bussing your buddy?

I am not forcing you to scumread him.
I am forcing you to take a stance on him.
I also want you to explain why you take this stance on him.

Stop avoiding the question.

Also you remember this?

Ram you're not answering my question. Why do you think Pep is towner then I am?

i didn't said that, you should ask why you are scummier to me than Pep, and i gave answer, we should vote our most scumread people, not least townread, at some degree i could take this as a scumslip, you want look more towny than Pep instead making him more scummy than you

You still think this is a slip?

yes, you are, if you would believe i could townread Pep, you wouldn't ask, as it won't change anything and would be just waste of time

Ofc i remember, and why should i change my opinion on that? You wanted look more towny than someone else, that's scum tactic in general

P-edit: Scum wouldn't do this, scum wouldn't do that, it really just scream scum to me

I'm not at all, I'm asking you to take a stance on him, not scumread him. Which you still aren't doing.
If you could townread pep, I would ask why and then convince you otherwise.
And you should, because that's not a slip. And you made my scum radar go off by saying it is.
And for the P-edit, how do you know that's not just game knowledge?

[Alisae]

pleasepleaseplease Ramcius I believe you are town so just STFU at this point. I think Ram ny Ali Acc town so I want to lynch oytside of that group. That's why my pushes are so lazy: I'm PoE voting at this point.

This is sorta what I'm doing, except my towreads go as follows
Me, Gamma, Acc, Ram, and Kyouko assuming he can make the read that was stale live again.

[Alisae]

Exactly, I just wanna PoE the game so that town can win.

Also, Pep asked you this:

Also Kyouko have you got any reads on the game or are you still catching up?

[Alisae]

I'm not at all, I'm asking you to take a stance on him, not scumread him. Which you still aren't doing.
If you could townread pep, I would ask why and then convince you otherwise.
And you should, because that's not a slip. And you made my scum radar go off by saying it is.
And for the P-edit, how do you know that's not just game knowledge?

You just proved my point, you want me scumread Pep, but you don't have strong case, and want me to do work for you, or at least give guidelines where to strike to make me scumread him.

You say you convince me h's scum, if i townread him, not try to convince, so i want to hear those arguments that makes Pep scum

I asked before, i will ask again, don't WIFOM on me, you say you wouldn't do something as scum, and when confronted, blame on me not knowing game, when you clearly said it's related to your playstyle in first place? Cause my FM knowledge advice me not put limits on scum capabilities to fake town play, and yes, i don't know your playstyle, so i use my general experience

oh my fuckin god...
I want you to townread him so I can convince you why he isn't town.
I wasn't blaming you, I was just asking you if it could come from my own experience.

Since you're not making this easy for me to PoE the game, I have to remember this is a Newbie game and actually put effort into this shit if you aren't willing to look at is ISO and take a goddam stance.

[Alisae]

your logic getting worse and worse, why me preventing you to PoE game?

Yeah, you're right, my logic is getting worse.

Bad Logic =/ Scum.
It just means VI.

[Alisae]

That moment when you're writing a case on someone but then you accidentally go back a page and lose everything becuase that exact same button that makes you go back a page is your push-to-talk on discord. Fuckin Rip.
That unmotivates me, but I'll leave a taste here and go more indepth later.

A. Pep is not scumhunting, he wanted other people to do that. in 417 he says he wants people to scumhunt. Not specificly him, but people. This was also proven in Ram's interactions with Pep. Also when it came to scumhunting, he origonally fos'd Accountant on asking questions but then he says asking questions is the best way to scumhunt, which seems contradictory to me.
B. In RVS he didn't want to praticipate because he "didn't know the people." To me that just seems as if Pep didn't want to participate because in RVS scum are vulnerable. They want RVS to end as soon as possible.
C. As Gamma stated, he's promoting false dichotomies.
D. Pep says that he feels that I'm ruining his game, but what's strange about this is if Pep was town, why would I be ruining his game?
E. He's chainsawing Nyd.
F. He's saying that people are scummy for their playstyle.

Have fun with those until I come back on tomorrow. If anyone wants to add to this that thinks Pep is scummy, they are certainly welcome to.

[Alisae]

Is this fucker posting above me really town, or am I just going crazy, or is he just has conf bias in his head?
Please send help, I think I'm genuinely going crazy.

[Alisae]

I think whern I was looking at the playstyle stuff I found this.

I agree on this part. I will also add that what I see in the posts Accountant writes after the dig that nydushermain did on xis previous games shows a big change in playstyle. Xe seems much more agressive and this get me to the question - Why? You said that when you get a strong scumread you become more aggressive. Is this the case with nydushermain at the time where those posts were made since I'm yet to read furhter? Or have you gone to a more offensive style since you know that you have more people on your side and it's a good time to try and eliminate the only person that actively goes against you?

[Alisae]

you fos'd him for asking questions when later you also said that when it comes to scumhunting it was best to ask questions.

[Alisae]

THAT is one of the main reasons why I SRed him early on

(Along with his passiveness overall)

Also, if I am really wrong, you need to start proving that I am wrong instead of fucking just saying "he's wrong."
If they were really "left behind" or "countered" counter them again.

[Alisae]

After all, it would convince everyone that I'm scum. That is, if you were really scumhunting?

[Alisae]

THAT is one of the main reasons why I SRed him early on

(Along with his passiveness overall)

Also, if I am really wrong, you need to start proving that I am wrong instead of fucking just saying "he's wrong."
If they were really "left behind" or "countered" counter them again.

And the reason of this post was? No but seriously I answered all the things you said against me. Now you are bringing them again and expect me to give you the same answers because?

Also I answer the good parts of your acussation. Problem is you either bring up the same thing over and over or you come up with new things that don't make sence. Sorry if I'm being rude.

Because that is what a townie would do.
And I'm not satisfied with your answers

Yes, I am scumhunting. I also think you look enough like a scum, so I don't think I have anything to show people.

But I also have counted-argumented and I think pretty succsefully every major accusation you had to me, so I don't see how I'm doing the scumhunting wrong. If anything you are the one doing that.

Show me all the posts where you've been scumhunting. I don't see them.

To quote Charloux about "you look enough like a scum, so I don't think I have anything to show people."

I think it's more due to pride to not admit you are wrong rather than alignment indicative. And if you are so much better than him, why not make him look more scummy by debating with him? You don't need to convince him anything, you just have to make him look scummy thus convincing "town" that he is scum. Think of it as a warm-up so you at least put up a fight against Acc

If you think you countered something do it again.

[Alisae]

THAT is one of the main reasons why I SRed him early on

(Along with his passiveness overall)

Also, if I am really wrong, you need to start proving that I am wrong instead of fucking just saying "he's wrong."
If they were really "left behind" or "countered" counter them again.

You should probably reread that entire section instead of just plucking quotes from his ISO. I know I just read this a couple days ago so it's fresh in my memory but the way I remember it pep is telling the truth here and you're either misunderstanding, remembering wrong, conf biasing, or misrepresenting him.

If you want to prove you're right go back and quote where he's now contradicting what he said back then, because that SR on Accountant was not necessarily a playstyle thing. Sure maybe Accountant is always slow to start a push and compounds on a push as he gains support, but if that's the case he has a scummy playstyle. It's not on us to know his meta

Yeah, I think I could have just misunderstood that part.

[Alisae]

Kyouko, it's not like you to not have placed a vote by now.
Knowing you, you usually make a point on not voting = not notable scum reads.

[Alisae]

Pep who else do you townread?

Pep what are your reads?

Alisae - Scum
DBW - Potential Scum (mostly because he is lurking or not even considering playing the game anymore)
You - Scum leaning to null (Is that a thing?)
Ramicius - null leaning to Town
Chaloux - null leaning to Town
Gamma - null leaning to Scum
Mewtaw - Town

I think I missed one guy so if you see yourself just tell me and I will add you in.

Oh yeah, Nyd is Town

[Alisae]

@DBW: if you can't keep up plz do us a favor and replace out
Your inactivity has become a bloat on the town's productivity

[Alisae]

VOTE: Alisae

Nyd, come at me bro.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Alisae

Nyd, come at me bro.

You have issues LOL. I already told you, I think you're town.

You know your vote would be the vote for the lynch, right?

[Alisae]

My wagon is nice and lovely tho. You get cookies for coming on it.

[Alisae]

DBW wagon died a long time ago. The biggest wagon around right now is my wagon.
Are you gonna hop on it, or not?

[Alisae]

Oh wait, I hammered myself anyways
Brb furaffinity ୧ ( ಠ Д ಠ ) ୨

A vote on me for swag points would be cool anyways.