Newbie 1764: Wind Game Over

[Ramcius]

hm, it's hard to choose, only 1 vote and 8 people i would like to vote

[Ramcius]

hm, it's hard to choose, only 1 vote and 8 people i would like to vote

What, really? You have a scumread on every other player in the game?

opposite, it's impossible to get scumread just from what we have now, and normally before game ends i have accused most of people being scum

[Ramcius]

well, i doubt accountant will do all work, in other site we had rule, if IC lives to D3 in newbie game, then IC is most likely scum so i expect accountant get night killed sometime soon

we in RVS stage, so this whole voting and this wagon isn't serious, so we shouldn't look at it too much, and wagons aren't scummy by itself, wagons without good reason and full of sheeps are scummy

[Ramcius]

Town is likely to sheep any wagon, if you give them semi-good reason, and scum have easier to fake some reason to call someone scum on slip, town are more reluctant to call someone scum, no town want push ML wagon, while scum know exactly they are pushing ML wagon and they are more confident in doing so. So in short, while town can think twice pushing someone on slight slip, scum will call out slipped person and make sheep wagon from it

Pedit: sheeping isn't scummy by itself, it's most times are town, so i advice avoid sheeping always, and when cop gives results, it's not sheeping (assuming you trust cop, cause scum can pretend cop too just to push last ML or such), if you going vote someone, you should do cause you want to, not because someone else did it before you

[Ramcius]

if you give them semi-good reason, and scum have easier to fake some reason to call someone scum on slip, town are more reluctant to call someone scum, no town want push ML wagon, while scum know exactly they are pushing ML wagon and they are more confident in doing so

This looks okay on paper, but in practice that's not what happens. Since role assignments are random, townies are not a homogenized group - there will inevitably be aggressive or bullheaded people selected as townies by the luck of the draw. These aggressive or bullheaded people are likely to then push wagons fearlessly on people, without caring whether or not it's a mislynch. Or perhaps it's not either of those traits, it's stubbornness; the town member isn't afraid to push wagons without fear of mislynch because they're absolutely sure that the target is mafia.

Or perhaps scum are very shy and do not dare to do something bold like lead a lynch on someone who will flip town. Or they want to blend in and don't want the scrutiny that the leader of a wagon on town gets.

As you can see, there are lots of different playstyles, so it's extremely shaky to call someone town or scum based solely on something like "whether or not they pushes a wagon". What we can do instead is look at the wagons themselves and see if they are supported by sound reasoning.

i'm not saying only scum starts these wagons, i'm against these wagons in general, cause they never are good for town, scum or town pushed, and if town start it, scum second it anyway, and in end they achieve their ML

[Ramcius]

right now i felt like you setting me up for future lynch, we talk sheep wagons, not all wagons, anyway, take it as a little heads up from me for when we get sheep wagon, so you guys won't be shocked, when i start questioning that wagon

[Ramcius]

Oh, this is my error. I mixed you up with Van, who apparently distrusts all wagons.

Well, that's not an unreasonable stance. Being wary of sheep wagons is only natural. But why do you completely discount the possibility that sheep wagons may be on scum? Consider: perhaps a confident and skilled townie finds who they think is scum, town sheeps them, and then the target is actually scum. That doesb't sound that unlikely.

It's also interesting that you think I'm setting you up. Firstly, what makes you think that? Secondly, if you really think that, why haven't you voted me?

I don't discount, if someone will be skilled enough to make good case, then we can't call it sheep wagon, but still i will put under scrutiny person who came with that case first

I said it's feeling, you told i don't believe in only weapon town have - lynching, isn't that looking anti-town? So, why shouldn't scumread someone, who try portray my behavior as anti-town? And i don't trow my votes right and left just like that on slight scumreads

[Ramcius]

btw, anyone could tell me which roles from matrix6 we got in this game? Cause i can't find or it's secret?

[Ramcius]

Use your brain a bit. If we outed the roles now who do you think would be killed during the night?
And town shouldn't bring up the subject, since only scum benefit from it.

i don't ask to claim, i ask what roles are in play, and i don't like your answer, looks like forced attempt to grab towncred

[Ramcius]

Use your brain a bit. If we outed the roles now who do you think would be killed during the night?
And town shouldn't bring up the subject, since only scum benefit from it.

i don't ask to claim, i ask what roles are in play, and i don't like your answer, looks like forced attempt to grab towncred

I don't like your though process. You think we should treat you as confirmed town and everybody who speaks to you is scum. I'll go on a limb here and say you are using an alter-ego in this game, or you are just bad with pressure hence taking an aggressive approach to fend off any potential attacks on your slot. I don't see town mentality there.
VOTE: Ramcius

Sorry if you though i was being rude in the last post.

i don't ask you to like me, or how i play, only thing i expect from people is either cooperate to find scum, or don't stand in my way, and if i see something off, i say it

thx, Gamma

[Ramcius]

@Ramcius: You say Charloux is trying to get towncred, and this is scummy. Why is it scummy?

he said i'm rolefishing by asking people to claim, being rude i take as NAI here, and put vote on top of that, that's a blatant attempt to look towny framing me by twisting my question, and i can't see this as town behavior

and my question was pretty clear, Gamma got it, others probably too, since no one else called me out on it

[Ramcius]

I disagree. Charloux did not say that you are rolefishing. Charloux assumed that you intended to obtain the list of roles in the game through claiming - because that is the only way to get such a list. In this case, he did not try to say you were rolefishing, but rather just said that it would be stupid to claim immediately. If Charloux was scum trying to frame you, don't you think he would have directly called you scummy, and voted you, rather than simply saying it was stupid and that we couldn't do it?

i clearly stated in my question if we don't supposed to know exact role list in here, it's my first game in here after all, so his hostile position on this not sit well with me, i could understand hostility on other my posts, but that was simple question on game mechanics

If we outed the roles now who do you think would be killed during the night?

here he says i was rolefishing, also, why only scum benefit of knowing what roles are in play? According to him in same message, and in next message he told i'm scum "don't see town mentality" and voted me, and after you argued that there may be different ways of acting, now you try sell me that scum would vote me instantly instead over 2 messages after getting more "ground" for vote? Now that's inconsistency in you, and maybe FoS Accountant and Charloux

[Ramcius]

This is incorrect.

A common-sense interpretation of the sentence:

"If we outed the roles now who do you think would be killed during the night?"

Tells us that Charloux was not directly accusing you of rolefishing, but rather pointing out - albeit in an unnecessarily hostile manner - that what you propose is unfeasible, because it would lead to PRs getting killed during the night. Note the use of the word "we" - of course, Charloux wouldn't be accusing himself of rolefishing, so it's more likely that he is speaking of the town as a whole outing the roles. In other words, he is criticizing any course of action that might lead to town as a whole outing their roles, rather than accusing any single person of participating in a scummy action. Do you see the difference here?

Note, too, that Charloux definitely did not vote you for rolefishing. This is the given reason for Charloux voting you.

I don't like your though process. You think we should treat you as confirmed town and everybody who speaks to you is scum. I'll go on a limb here and say you are using an alter-ego in this game, or you are just bad with pressure hence taking an aggressive approach to fend off any potential attacks on your slot.

Thus, Charloux makes a few substantive accusations against you:

1) That your thought process is scummy.

2) That this is due to scum trying to adopt an alter-ego, creating an inconsistent and shaky mindset.

3) That if 2) is not the case then it is due to you, as scum, knowing that you are bad at dealing with pressure and pre-emptively attacking people who might exert pressure on you.

This is the crux of why Charloux voted you - that's why he wrote it in the post immediately before voting you. After seeing this, I think it's unreasonable to leap to the conclusion that Charloux is voting you for rolefishing. If you want to continue asserting that Charloux is attempting to frame you for rolefishing, you'll have to show two things: a) where Charloux said that you were rolefishing and b) Where Charloux said that he was voting you due to your rolefishing.

nice wall you got here, and all this true, if we assume Charloux is town, which is opposite to what i'm saying - why mafia would vote me for rolefishing? Especially when there was no intention for it in my question, but Charloux found it. You clearly try show Charloux only from town perspective, and ignore his actions from mafia perspective - what reason to vote me, as a town there? Not towny mindset? thats ridiculous, i don't try derail town, i don't try distract, opposite, i ask work with me, or ignore me, if you not want work with me

[Ramcius]

I ask work with me, or ignore me, if you not want work with me

This sentence here is my problem. You say we should treat you as conftown or ignore you. There is no problem with working with you, but why can't we doubt you? Explain please

you can doubt, you can call me scum, but if you do so, better come prepared, i tend retaliate hard to empty treats or false accusations

[Ramcius]

I'll treat your comments as "get the fuck off my back, don't ask why" for today then.

only today?

[Ramcius]

you can't scumread Accountant for asking questions and being passive, he's IC in newbie game, so it's sorta what he supposed to do, let us do stuff and guide, atleast on start of game

You clearly try show Charloux only from town perspective, and ignore his actions from mafia perspective

On the other hand, you're only showing Charloux from a mafia perspective, while ignoring his actions from a town perspective. I think it's important that all possible perspectives should be brought up so Charloux's actions can be clearly examined in the light of those perspectives. In this manner, we can clearly see if the mafia perspective is significantly stronger, and if it is then we have ourselves a good reason to scumread Charloux. I could definitely see Charloux doing this as scum, but since I can see Charloux doing this as town as well, it's difficult for me to say confidently what Charloux's alignment is, solely based on that.

i don't argue he can be town, my vote not on him

I think that Charloux is quite scummy as well. I think that post 87 did not come from a towny mindset. He says that he thinks Ramcius is scum because of his "overly aggressive" attitude and defensiveness but when he continues to be, what I perceive as, being even more aggressive, Charloux decides to just back off? I understand deciding "okay, this tunnel might be clouding my judgement, I'll look back at other people now" but there's no indication for me that Charloux was even looking at other people as potential scum.

he didn't backed off, vote still on me, just he have nothing against me, no one support his crusade on me, so he just let it go for now

I'm saying scum has less motivation to provide more content.

If someone enjoys playing scum, i think they would put in more effort, don't ya think?

another slip? scum usually try be passive, and even if they put effort, scum always avoid give content, and you try convince Gamma opposite, and how you know Accountant enjoy playing scum? He told in mafia PT?

[Ramcius]

another slip? scum usually try be passive, and even if they put effort, scum always avoid give content, and you try convince Gamma opposite, and how you know Accountant enjoy playing scum? He told in mafia PT?

I don't blame you for not knowing this, but it's open knowledge that I enjoy playing scum immensely, for example here:

I want to win a scummy for best mafia player because I love playing scum

I'm just the sort of player who enjoys knowing more than I should, and so I like being a mafia member

VOTE: DeathByWobuffet

knowing is burden anyway, Charloux giving false info and arguing valid point - mafia won't give content easily, and posting actively/putting effort by far not mean giving content, and someone with some experience suppose to know that

[Ramcius]

I'm saying scum has less motivation to provide more content.

If someone enjoys playing scum, i think they would put in more effort, don't ya think?

I think i sound pretty objective here (My opinion it seems)
So, can those who think this is a slip paraphrase it to sound more objectively. Or should i start adding "Objectively speaking" or "Joke" before my posts?
I also didn't think about accountant while posting this and it's the first time i hear he is after the award. But i do think that he would give his all regardless of alignment.
@Ramcius: If you bite when you are attacked, i explode taking down everybody with me; So i suggest not going on a Jihad because of something stupid as your pride.

And how that's town mentality? And i said, i bite, when i getting accused on false accusations, yet, i make valid arguments on you, and on top, i still not voting you, but more i see, more i think you are candidate for D1 lynch, putting jokes like this is mafia putting effort in game, as you said in your post, cause i have yet to see you try to find mafia (aside from false accusation on me)

[Ramcius]

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald
I don't know why everyone decided to jump on the bandwagon with me, but I don't feel comfortable with having someone at L-2 on page 3 while we're still basically in RVS. Will be back with some thoughts on the game so far later, a bit busy now.

What makes you think we are in RVS? Quite a few substantive accusations have been thrown around.

Sorry, I didn't phrase that too well. What I meant to say is that bandwagon formed entirely during RVS.

Well, we way past RVS now, so we appreciate your contribution to finding mafia, you have only 3 posts in here after all, and people already starting vote you

[Ramcius]

that makes 0 sense

why? we need find mafia, you do nothing to help, how that not makes sense? we can misslynch 2 times and still win, so i'm totally fine with PL on someone, who do nothing

[Ramcius]

While Ramicus's playing style really does seem like a scared townie who is being aggressive and cocky (and I hate this way of playing) I'm still not biting on him being town. You say people give false accusations on you, yet you have only really gone against the people that actually question your allegiance. Why?

First, i'm not scared, why should i be? I'm prime target for N1 kill now, second, to go after someone, they should post something to go after, if people stays inactive like this, how i can tell something about them? Just like you, have only few posts, so what i could tell about you? That you don't read what i wrote? Cause accountant actions are easily explained by him being IC and not wanting interfere too much early in game

[Ramcius]

By alliance I mean either Town or Scum Accountant.

Well, you say if you are not gonna help me scum hunt then don't stay in my way. I haven't seen you do any scum hunting yet. And in mafia you need to provoke people to say something to go after. That's why it's good to ask questions. you can't expect everybody to be like "Hey, I'm gonna say something scummy so you can after me". This is mostly done in the early beginning of the game or the RVS stage as you call it or whatever (not really good with the terminology in mafia still lol). After that it is a game of who is better at gathering evidence and using them to your advantage and helping your faction goals.

Also saying you are a prime target for Night 1 kill is not something I belive a town in your situation would say. Furthermore I would like to ask you why are you seeming so aggressive if you are not scared? Is this a game plan, or just your personality?

Last let me point out that if Accountant is holding back just because he is an IC, well this is dumb. Isn't the ICs job to help us get better at the game, by explaining things and giving his best in the game? He can do both imo. We are playing a game of mafia and even tho this is a newbie game where most of us are new or at least relatively new, I belive everybody should be playing like they usually do. Nydushermain pointed out that in another Accountant game his playing style was simular but not as passive. This is what is bothering me.

You said i'm look scared, so i said i'm not, and gave reason why i'm not, it's just simple logic, i'm very vocal, and townread by people, so getting me lynched would be hard task for mafia, especially when game so stall, so yes, i'm prime target, and announcing it i play WIFOM on mafia kill tonight (in case we got doc).

Could you describe me scumhunting, so i would know what i supposed to do, since you say i haven't done it yet, i'll be grateful

Was it another newbie game, that Nyd mentioned? Cause i had impression it wasn't, and i'm not going compare IC actions in normal and newbie games

[Ramcius]

Ramcius: your playstyle reminds me of aggressive town that is completely willing to embrace your paranoidness. I notice that you said that you "bite" if you get attacked by baseless accusations. I presume you would not respond well to a short-term "You are scum" accusation. Since Charloux has indicated that he'd respond similarly, has this changed how you have viewed Charloux at all, since you must be able to relate with this?

you can't scumread Accountant for asking questions and being passive, he's IC in newbie game, so it's sorta what he supposed to do, let us do stuff and guide, atleast on start of game

I'm saying scum has less motivation to provide more content.

If someone enjoys playing scum, i think they would put in more effort, don't ya think?

another slip? [...] scum always avoid give content, and you try convince Gamma opposite, and how you know Accountant enjoy playing scum? He told in mafia PT?

I also personally think you should reign in on making posts like these. I feel that you're finding evidence to help you explain your personal thought on scum!Charloux, rather than the other way around. While I can see this from paranoid + aggressive town you, I can also see this from scum you trying to hide behind a "slip". Instead, you should focus on trying to articulate to the thread what feels off about Charloux instead of focusing on things like slips. While working off of slips sounds good theoretically, it is often clouded by speaking out of POV, humour, rxn testing, etc.
I have a read on Charloux myself that I will likely share after you respond.

i didn't call him scum yet, i just point out things that pings me and wait his responses

if someone blatantly call me scum? Probably i would laugh, maybe mock a little that person

[Ramcius]

nice wall you got here, and all this true, if we assume Charloux is town, which is opposite to what i'm saying

i didn't call him scum yet, i just point out things that pings me and wait his responses

if someone blatantly call me scum? Probably i would laugh, maybe mock a little that person

Your read on Charloux is still unclear. Has something happened from that post and now to change your perspective? What was it?

nothing changed, i'm leaning on scum, but not convinced to push lynch just yet

[Ramcius]

now you sound like cornered mafia - why town would say that? Or you still think Accountant is mafia?

[Ramcius]

it's never about catching, but about convincing town to vote right person, and your refusal to spil beans as you say and you not sure if accountant is scum looks weird

[Ramcius]

WIFOM isn't scummy it's trying predict someone's actions, when they know you going to predict their actions, i. e. there is strong town read or revealed PR, just someone worth saving from night kill, so mafia would assume doc will be on that person, so they won't touch him, and since doc knows mafia would go for other target - he would heal someone else too, to try guess mafia target, that's a WIFOM

VOTE: DBW

i have feeling mafia is coasting while we fight each other, and i warned him, yet he still not interested to do anything

[Ramcius]

Ny, are you saying we should lynch accountant, cause he was asking questions and being active? That's a red flag on you now

[Ramcius]

first of all, we not going lynch DBW just yet, it's pressure voting, and from what i see till now, he either frustrated VT or clueless mafia, and personally leaning scum on him, i see literally no effort from him to do anything

[Ramcius]

no one is going lynch him yet, and whoever think is good idea hammer DBW, will be on chopping block next, so i wouldn't worry about it for now, and if he gets lynched and flipps town later, he brought that on self, and we will be in good shape still after 1 ML

[Ramcius]

Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it

VOTE: Nydushermain

[Ramcius]

Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it

VOTE: Nydushermain

And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.

exactly, you didn't do anything to make him talk, you simply say he can be town or scum, considering he said nothing useful yet, everyone can say same, and in different from you, we tried get him talking, but you don't want it, you just want him dead and see flip town

[Ramcius]

Yes, you wait flip to trump after and tell how wrong wee wee and line up some ML, i don't see you as a town, you don't try solve DBW situation, you want him lynched, and your push on accountant based just on meta from reading other games is joke, you say we should vote our top scumread? i'm up for it

VOTE: Nydushermain

And what? I never implicated that I'd "berate people" or whatever for being potentially wrong on DBW. I presented both sides of him being scum or town.

exactly, you didn't do anything to make him talk, you simply say he can be town or scum, considering he said nothing useful yet, everyone can say same, and in different from you, we tried get him talking, but you don't want it, you just want him dead and see flip town

How do I want him dead? You're talking as if I'm coming from the mindset of scum but I want you to try to see if I can come up with the same shit I posted if I'm town. I don't know anyone's alignment this game. I LOVE digging through history and seeing who can be with who, whether I believe this person genuinely pushed on town or scum, etc. If DBW gets lynched, which I'm okay with because I don't know if I'm right on accountant, then fine, we lynch him. Any sort of alignment reveal helps me because I can dig into ISOs after. However, the person I read the scummiest is accountant and would I prefer a lynch on him? ABSOLUTELY and I've stated my reasons why. This doesn't mean that I'm trying to get some sort of "town cred" if DBW flips town. It means that I don't have a town read on DBW so there's a chance that he can be scum in my mind.

i can't see your actions as a town, cause i never would do this as a town, and i would always do so as a scum, and just 1 more time - WE WASN"T GOING LYNCH DBW - but you want it, aren't you? Cause you know he's gonna flip town, and you saying you don't know anyone alignment in this game, it's so forced townslip, i don't see town saying something like that, and for end, you never lynch active person on hunch early - you don't want end game with lurkers, been there, i know what i'm saying, unless you scum, then you want that, easier pull ML with lurkers in end

[Ramcius]

is it bussing Pepchonga? Cause me and Carloux too accused Accountant early in game, yet you ignored that fact and say on Pepchonga scumread Accountant, hence i never said i changed my mind on Accountant, i still don't trust, but i rather go in end game with Accountant than DBW, Pepchonga or other lurker

[Ramcius]

Honestly, there's a good chance he's going to flip town. 3 lurkers out of 9 players, 2 being mafia? That's just a good statistic for him. That's all I have on him. If you say you can't see me as town because you PERSONALLY can't see yourself playing the way I have, that's fine. If you're so thick headed that you can't see people having different playstyles compared to you, by all means, lynch me. I still think you're town but you're heading in a horrible direction.

and how you know both mafia are in lurkers? So, tell me your playstyle - have strong read on someone, call for lynch, and then just lay back and watch town lynch lurker (and just push that too, without jumping wagon), telling to everyone lurker might flip town, when confronted, changed mind on lurker most likely flip scum, do i do it right in guessing your style?

[Ramcius]

Yo
Ramcius, VVD, and ny are obvtown

why VVD and Ny obv town? VVD is another lurker without anything to read from, and Ny giving so many pings right now

[Ramcius]

Yo
Ramcius, VVD, and ny are obvtown

why VVD and Ny obv town? VVD is another lurker without anything to read from, and Ny giving so many pings right now

VVD's concern about my TR is town
ny's use of meta is towny

Well, i could agree on VVD, but using meta isn't town sign by far, it's NAI

[Ramcius]

The way ny used meta doesn't feel like a scum use, also the fact he went back after realizing his analysis was off.

then who are scum?

[Ramcius]

now that's interesting, why DBW is your top scum?

[Ramcius]

so, your reads haven't changed after all this discussion? Cause that was post 103, now we at 240

[Ramcius]

If we continue this way, we end up with 9 townies in here, since seems everyone is town in this game So maybe start suggesting lynch targets, not just defending everyone, and i say that to all, cause deadline is coming, and i still don't like Nys, nothing make sense to me from town POV, he changes his position all the time, first he say we shouldn't lynch DBW (ignoring me and Charloux clearly stating we just want DBW talk, not lynch), going same even after i explain several times we not going lynch DBW, and he was lining lynches there, after he agreed and said both mafia are in 3 lurking people (weird statement from town), he's case on Accountant make no sense, something he found in other Accountant game, and we should now go and find that game, cause he didn't said what was different in that game from other 9 Accountant town games, and why here it's similar to that scum game, he inconsistent in all he do, yes, he said he changes his minds all time, but he was holding on DBW lynch idea so hard despite telling him no one is going lynch

[Ramcius]

Also, Ramcius, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say there. How does the fact that he's changing his opinion make him scum? It's perfectly reasonable for him to change his reads as time goes on.

Yes, as time goes on, but he changed opinion on you without any good reason, at first he was against your lynch (which wasn't planned) and after he lay back and say "ok, lynch DBW, i just want see him flip", i could accept, if you came and said something, so he was ok with your lynch, but you didn't, and it's only Nys, who want you dead, and Gamma, but he forgot why scumread you, so, i don't count him

[Ramcius]

Well, i don't think Charloux is scum, don't want lynch accountant just now, we can sort it later (very likely mafia will take care of it, if he's town), so from your list only DBW, and since he still not want do shit, i think we can give rope to him

VOTE: DBW

[Ramcius]

If we continue this way, we end up with 9 townies in here, since seems everyone is town in this game So maybe start suggesting lynch targets, not just defending everyone, and i say that to all, cause deadline is coming, and i still don't like Nys, nothing make sense to me from town POV, he changes his position all the time, first he say we shouldn't lynch DBW (ignoring me and Charloux clearly stating we just want DBW talk, not lynch), going same even after i explain several times we not going lynch DBW, and he was lining lynches there, after he agreed and said both mafia are in 3 lurking people (weird statement from town), he's case on Accountant make no sense, something he found in other Accountant game, and we should now go and find that game, cause he didn't said what was different in that game from other 9 Accountant town games, and why here it's similar to that scum game, he inconsistent in all he do, yes, he said he changes his minds all time, but he was holding on DBW lynch idea so hard despite telling him no one is going lynch

Honestly, just your first sentence seems scummy...

better show me your scumhunting skills, since you told last time i haven't done any scumhunting, and that was a joke, and if you read tread, you may understand, or maybe not, probably you read already, but still have no idea what going on and where we are at this point...

[Ramcius]

Well, i don't think Charloux is scum, don't want lynch accountant just now, we can sort it later (very likely mafia will take care of it, if he's town), so from your list only DBW, and since he still not want do shit, i think we can give rope to him

VOTE: DBW

Is that you changing your opinion on me?

no, but i want answers, and as i said, DBW don't want help us, so i'm ok lynching him

[Ramcius]

If we continue this way, we end up with 9 townies in here, since seems everyone is town in this game So maybe start suggesting lynch targets, not just defending everyone, and i say that to all, cause deadline is coming, and i still don't like Nys, nothing make sense to me from town POV, he changes his position all the time, first he say we shouldn't lynch DBW (ignoring me and Charloux clearly stating we just want DBW talk, not lynch), going same even after i explain several times we not going lynch DBW, and he was lining lynches there, after he agreed and said both mafia are in 3 lurking people (weird statement from town), he's case on Accountant make no sense, something he found in other Accountant game, and we should now go and find that game, cause he didn't said what was different in that game from other 9 Accountant town games, and why here it's similar to that scum game, he inconsistent in all he do, yes, he said he changes his minds all time, but he was holding on DBW lynch idea so hard despite telling him no one is going lynch

Honestly, just your first sentence seems scummy...

better show me your scumhunting skills, since you told last time i haven't done any scumhunting, and that was a joke, and if you read tread, you may understand, or maybe not, probably you read already, but still have no idea what going on and where we are at this point...

Have you done any scumhunting? I might not be able to read tbh. Tho atm you are just disscusing Since I don't think I have actually questioned your scumhunting skills in my last post. I did ask a question that did not get answered. You go to the same stupid thing you asked me last time a asked you something.

not last post, but last time, before you was gone long enough to be proded, and i'm waiting your scumhunting lessons, show me, find scums

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Nys

You say you would lynch DBW, but you not voting him yet, you said you would hammer, if there was 4th vote, but ignore Alisa saying same few posts ago, so who stopped you do 4th and Alisa hammer? You talk much, but i can't see any actual town motivation in your actions, and i'm not conf bias on you, i pointed things i didn't liked in you, yet instead of explaining, you tried dodge with "town can do it too, not just scum", now OMGUS on Alisa not makes you look good at all

Pep, i'm still waiting you start doing your glorious scumhunt, we hear so much, yet we have to see, and if you forgot, it was you, who attacked me, not other way, so don't pretend offended now

[Ramcius]

Welcome to the wagon Ramcius! We're happy to have you. That's L-2 btw. If you're ever gonna make a lynch L-2 or L-1, it's better to say it. It's a nice habbit to get into.

Ramicus your thoughts on the case I presented on Pep?

I don't trust other people meta, i mean, i only use my own experience from games with someone and that's it, just example from my other game in other place - i had strong read on someone, who literally refused do a shit, everyone said me stop, it's her meta, let it go, in the end, turned out she was SK, but i don't like Pep, he boast so much, call on everyone for not doing scum hunt, yet he says he don't care game that much to visit every day, even got proded, and still waiting him to do his scum hunt, but i agree on his lynch D2 (if i survive till then )

[Ramcius]

Alisae and Nyd, why both of you wanted hammer DBW without letting him claim?

also, Accountant have point with buddying, Alisae said "if Accountant flipps scum, i will be in trouble", she just came and trust Accountant so much? And i like that quote to make Nyd scummy for wanting DBGW dead, when Alisae wanted hammer DBW too, if there was 4th vote, without giving any reason to lynch him

VOTE: Alisae

[Ramcius]

Like, before I intented to hammer DBW, I would have talked to him a bit, interacted with him, asked him a few questions, and probably end up letting him go since to me people are scummier then he is.

So, you telling me you didn't cared for reasons why DBW had wagon on him? Cause he don't give a shit, and he don't want talk, we tried nicely, we tried put at L-2, no reaction, and it would come night sooner than you get answer from him, you noticed Pep activity, but totally ignored DBW absence

[Ramcius]

Like, before I intented to hammer DBW, I would have talked to him a bit, interacted with him, asked him a few questions, and probably end up letting him go since to me people are scummier then he is.

So, you telling me you didn't cared for reasons why DBW had wagon on him? Cause he don't give a shit, and he don't want talk, we tried nicely, we tried put at L-2, no reaction, and it would come night sooner than you get answer from him, you noticed Pep activity, but totally ignored DBW absence

Those are part of my reasons, but I thought ywall were focusing on DBW, Pep was basicly doing the samething up to a period of time. Another one of my reasons was that he wasn't voting anyone at the time meaning he had no notable scum reads.

I definetly did notice it.

Plus, I don't think DBW would even respond that will to it being at L-1, I think he would still continue to lurk.

And yet you call Nyd scum for wanting DBW dead, while you wanted hammer him too without having reason, and you knew he's inactive af, so your "i will talk first" not gonna work on him

[Ramcius]

Like, before I intented to hammer DBW, I would have talked to him a bit, interacted with him, asked him a few questions, and probably end up letting him go since to me people are scummier then he is.

So, you telling me you didn't cared for reasons why DBW had wagon on him? Cause he don't give a shit, and he don't want talk, we tried nicely, we tried put at L-2, no reaction, and it would come night sooner than you get answer from him, you noticed Pep activity, but totally ignored DBW absence

Those are part of my reasons, but I thought ywall were focusing on DBW, Pep was basicly doing the samething up to a period of time. Another one of my reasons was that he wasn't voting anyone at the time meaning he had no notable scum reads.

I definetly did notice it.

Plus, I don't think DBW would even respond that will to it being at L-1, I think he would still continue to lurk.

And yet you call Nyd scum for wanting DBW dead, while you wanted hammer him too without having reason, and you knew he's inactive af, so your "i will talk first" not gonna work on him

I don't think you understand what intent to hammer means. Intent to Hammer means that if they were to be put at L-1, you would be the person to decide if they get lynched or not. First you would ask for their role, and then you would ask whatever you wanted to ask. Nyd saying "Can we just lynch this person already" is different then me saying "If this wagon were to get to L-1, I will intent to hammer it once I am satisfied with it." With that said, if I brought the DBW wagon to L-1, Nyd would have hammered and lynch someone who might be a townie. Do you really want a townie mislynched? Is DBW really that high on your scumlist not to consider Nyd, Pep, Charloux, or even Accountant if you think he is scum?

Also

Ram what are your thoughts on the Pep wagon?

DBW isn't on my scumlist, i said i would be satisfied with PL DBW, if he stays inactive, Charloux not on my scumlist, Accountant i said i don't want lynch yet, so that leaves Pep and Nyd, and you ofc, and i said i'm ok with Pep lynch already, and we agreed lynch him tomorrow, if i stay alive over night

[Ramcius]

Exactly, it's my strong scumread and nullread in wagon, and you expect me hop in? Honestly i start considering Gamma lynch, he seems here, but i can't see anything alignment indicative, like he trying to be off radar all time

[Ramcius]

Ram answer this as well.

what do you think of Gamma's reason to hop on the Pep wagon?

Cause he scum and want misslynch? He so elusive, i can't read him at all

[Ramcius]

Ram answer this as well.

what do you think of Gamma's reason to hop on the Pep wagon?

Cause he scum and want misslynch? He so elusive, i can't read him at all

I'm not saying what do you think his reason could be. I'm asking you what is your opinion about the reason that he gave. Which are quoted below:

Not avoiding any question, bote ^^ I said I belive either you 2 are both the mafia (which was my initial thought), a thing that seeing Accountants action on deciding to lynch you seems highly unlikely, or one of you is - keep in mind this is only my thoughts.

So yeah, till Accountant gives his thoughts I ain't answering any more "stupid" questions (excuse the word but I found it most appropriate). Continueing to do so is a scum claim. A desperate one at that.

I don't like this post. Pep's posting recently has felt terrible.
VOTE: Pepchoninga

Your posting kinda feels like you are promoting false dichotomies.

and my opinions stays, he scum sheeping wagon

also, i find this cuteness in his ISO

I'm saying scum has less motivation to provide more content.

[Ramcius]

Ram, who seems the least scummy in your scumreads. Me or Pep? And why?

i don't see Pep that scummy tbh

[Ramcius]

i just love how Gamma and Alisae try persuade people join Pep wagon without trying prove he's scum anymore, just begging lynch him

[Ramcius]

i just love how Gamma and Alisae try persuade people join Pep wagon without trying prove he's scum anymore, just begging lynch him

We are persuading people. We're asking them why they don't like the wagon or why they don't think Pep is that scummy.
Speaking of which, why would you want to lynch me over Pep?
it's safe to say that Pep has been buddying Nyd by defending him.

you mean like you did with Accountant after replaced in? And your telling you in trouble, if Accountant flips red show 2 things - you know he's town, and you wanted him dead, so you could be conf town, now buddying Gamma, who literally haven't done anything AI, probably haven't changed his reads from 103 post yet, so yes, i want lynch you over Pep at this point, other lynch targets for today probably DBW and Gamma

[Ramcius]

Ram you're not answering my question. Why do you think Pep is towner then I am?

i didn't said that, you should ask why you are scummier to me than Pep, and i gave answer, we should vote our most scumread people, not least townread, at some degree i could take this as a scumslip, you want look more towny than Pep instead making him more scummy than you

[Ramcius]

Ram you're not answering my question. Why do you think Pep is towner then I am?

i didn't said that, you should ask why you are scummier to me than Pep, and i gave answer, we should vote our most scumread people, not least townread, at some degree i could take this as a scumslip, you want look more towny than Pep instead making him more scummy than you

Fair.
Your thoughts on the case I brought up on Nyd?

I saw scummier posts from him, from you too i have to say

[Ramcius]

Well Ramcius, you have 3 people to convince, and the deadline is 3 days from now. Good luck to you buddy

3 days is a whole lot, and i have nowhere to rush, people still hesitant to lynch, close to deadline is time for push, and you doing good job for me, i might not even need do anything, keep it up

[Ramcius]

Well Ramcius, you have 3 people to convince, and the deadline is 3 days from now. Good luck to you buddy

3 days is a whole lot, and i have nowhere to rush, people still hesitant to lynch, close to deadline is time for push, and you doing good job for me, i might not even need do anything, keep it up

I don't think you understand something.
I feel as if I am in no danger of being lynched.

Question: If I was scum, wouldn't I have felt the need to attack Nyd right away instead of trying to start out as the voice of reason between the two at first?
I see no reason why scum would make an attempt to break up that fight.

oh, i know that very well, if you were, you would put more defense than "fair" to my last accusation, and i don't see any reason to push your lynch since i see people not interested at all in lynching you, DBW is getting lynched anyway, if he don't get replaced for inactivity, that's pretty clear, it's safest lynch, ofc people don't want lynch him just yet, but at end, it will be he with rope on neck

[Ramcius]

Well Ramcius, you have 3 people to convince, and the deadline is 3 days from now. Good luck to you buddy

3 days is a whole lot, and i have nowhere to rush, people still hesitant to lynch, close to deadline is time for push, and you doing good job for me, i might not even need do anything, keep it up

I don't think you understand something.
I feel as if I am in no danger of being lynched.

Question: If I was scum, wouldn't I have felt the need to attack Nyd right away instead of trying to start out as the voice of reason between the two at first?
I see no reason why scum would make an attempt to break up that fight.

oh, i know that very well, if you were, you would put more defense than "fair" to my last accusation, and i don't see any reason to push your lynch since i see people not interested at all in lynching you, DBW is getting lynched anyway, if he don't get replaced for inactivity, that's pretty clear, it's safest lynch, ofc people don't want lynch him just yet, but at end, it will be he with rope on neck

So DBW and me are your top 2 lynches I am assuming?

Also answer the question.

no, DBW isn't my scumread, as i said plenty times already, but he is safest lynch at t his point, and he does literally nothing to prevent that, so i see his lynch at end of day

Don't try involve me in WIFOM, and "i see no reason why scum would do as i did" is so scum cliche, do you really want my answer on this?

[Ramcius]

Also even tho I'm at L-2 and it's better to claim at L-1, much rather claim now.
VT.

huh? scared suddenly? and VT claim changes nothing, well, i lie, i prefer your lynch more now than anyone else (still would lynch DBW, if we run out of time), cause i don't want risk lose PR and we don't have any serious case

[Ramcius]

Ramicus I think you just have conf bias and you're just getting me distracted.
But if my lynch will get Pep and Nyd lynched, I'll fuckin take it.
Cuz they're my strongest scumreads.

hm, what should i choose, someone claiming at L-2, when at L-3 was so confident not getting lynched, and giving VT claim, which literally means nothing, or pretty much go blind and risk lynch PR? Yes, i'm biased, but not that much as you, when tried force me vote Pep for his sarcasm towards, twice to be exact

[Ramcius]

Also Ram. Here's an assignment: Go re-read Pep's ISO and then tell me exactly what you think of him.

I don't have clear read on him, and i say one more time - i lynch VT claim at L-2 over blind shot, also, i don't buy all that "i was confident to attract night kill", you wouldn't claimed now with 1 more vote, and i don't see why mafia would kill you over me pr Accountant

[Ramcius]

Also Ram. Here's an assignment: Go re-read Pep's ISO and then tell me exactly what you think of him.

I don't have clear read on him, and i say one more time - i lynch VT claim at L-2 over blind shot, also, i don't buy all that "i was confident to attract night kill", you wouldn't claimed now with 1 more vote, and i don't see why mafia would kill you over me pr Accountant

Gun to your head Pep is ____
Fill in the blank.

Also rephrase this.

null, and rephrase what?

[Ramcius]

I am forcing you to take a stance on Pep.
And that whole sentence that you posted.

hm, if you really wanted get nk N1, you wouldn't claimed VT at L-2, so i call that bs, and i don't see mafia going after you, i guessing it's me or Accountant getting killed

and you can't force me take stance on Pep, you lost all credibility on him in my eyes, when you forced me vote him for being sarcastic

[Ramcius]

No, your are forcing peopel to get away from you and put pressure on me, it's a simple mafia routine.

She's not saying "you have to read this person as scum", she's saying "can you form an opinion so I know where you stand?".

and i said very clear - i'm not voting Pep at this point, which is reason why Alisae try convince me reread and find Pep scummy

[Ramcius]

and you can't force me take stance on Pep, you lost all credibility on him in my eyes, when you forced me vote him for being sarcastic

No, I am forcing you to take a stance.
If it helps re-read his ISO.

I've asked you this 2 times now.

what makes you think you have power to force me do so? And at this point no difference in seeing Pep null or town, so you literally force me to scumread him, could it be you bussing your buddy?

[Ramcius]

and you can't force me take stance on Pep, you lost all credibility on him in my eyes, when you forced me vote him for being sarcastic

No, I am forcing you to take a stance.
If it helps re-read his ISO.

I've asked you this 2 times now.

what makes you think you have power to force me do so? And at this point no difference in seeing Pep null or town, so you literally force me to scumread him, could it be you bussing your buddy?

I am not forcing you to scumread him.
I am forcing you to take a stance on him.
I also want you to explain why you take this stance on him.

Stop avoiding the question.

Also you remember this?

Ram you're not answering my question. Why do you think Pep is towner then I am?

i didn't said that, you should ask why you are scummier to me than Pep, and i gave answer, we should vote our most scumread people, not least townread, at some degree i could take this as a scumslip, you want look more towny than Pep instead making him more scummy than you

You still think this is a slip?

yes, you are, if you would believe i could townread Pep, you wouldn't ask, as it won't change anything and would be just waste of time

Ofc i remember, and why should i change my opinion on that? You wanted look more towny than someone else, that's scum tactic in general

P-edit: Scum wouldn't do this, scum wouldn't do that, it really just scream scum to me

[Ramcius]

I'm not at all, I'm asking you to take a stance on him, not scumread him. Which you still aren't doing.
If you could townread pep, I would ask why and then convince you otherwise.
And you should, because that's not a slip. And you made my scum radar go off by saying it is.
And for the P-edit, how do you know that's not just game knowledge?

You just proved my point, you want me scumread Pep, but you don't have strong case, and want me to do work for you, or at least give guidelines where to strike to make me scumread him.

You say you convince me h's scum, if i townread him, not try to convince, so i want to hear those arguments that makes Pep scum

I asked before, i will ask again, don't WIFOM on me, you say you wouldn't do something as scum, and when confronted, blame on me not knowing game, when you clearly said it's related to your playstyle in first place? Cause my FM knowledge advice me not put limits on scum capabilities to fake town play, and yes, i don't know your playstyle, so i use my general experience

[Ramcius]

I'm not at all, I'm asking you to take a stance on him, not scumread him. Which you still aren't doing.
If you could townread pep, I would ask why and then convince you otherwise.
And you should, because that's not a slip. And you made my scum radar go off by saying it is.
And for the P-edit, how do you know that's not just game knowledge?

You just proved my point, you want me scumread Pep, but you don't have strong case, and want me to do work for you, or at least give guidelines where to strike to make me scumread him.

You say you convince me h's scum, if i townread him, not try to convince, so i want to hear those arguments that makes Pep scum

I asked before, i will ask again, don't WIFOM on me, you say you wouldn't do something as scum, and when confronted, blame on me not knowing game, when you clearly said it's related to your playstyle in first place? Cause my FM knowledge advice me not put limits on scum capabilities to fake town play, and yes, i don't know your playstyle, so i use my general experience

oh my fuckin god...
I want you to townread him so I can convince you why he isn't town.
I wasn't blaming you, I was just asking you if it could come from my own experience.

Since you're not making this easy for me to PoE the game, I have to remember this is a Newbie game and actually put effort into this shit if you aren't willing to look at is ISO and take a goddam stance.

exactly, how i could know your experience? If i see you first time

your logic getting worse and worse, why me preventing you to PoE game? If i scumread Pep, you get what you want, if i don't, you will make me scumread him, so how i stop you?

@Gamma, why you so strong townread Alisae?

[Ramcius]

it's hard resist urge to be sarcastic here, anyway, nothing serious as i suspected

[Ramcius]

That moment when you're writing a case on someone but then you accidentally go back a page and lose everything becuase that exact same button that makes you go back a page is your push-to-talk on discord. Fuckin Rip.
That unmotivates me, but I'll leave a taste here and go more indepth later.

A. Pep is not scumhunting, he wanted other people to do that. in 417 he says he wants people to scumhunt. Not specificly him, but people. This was also proven in Ram's interactions with Pep. Also when it came to scumhunting, he origonally fos'd Accountant on asking questions but then he says asking questions is the best way to scumhunt, which seems contradictory to me.
B. In RVS he didn't want to praticipate because he "didn't know the people." To me that just seems as if Pep didn't want to participate because in RVS scum are vulnerable. They want RVS to end as soon as possible.
C. As Gamma stated, he's promoting false dichotomies.
D. Pep says that he feels that I'm ruining his game, but what's strange about this is if Pep was town, why would I be ruining his game?
E. He's chainsawing Nyd.
F. He's saying that people are scummy for their playstyle.

Have fun with those until I come back on tomorrow. If anyone wants to add to this that thinks Pep is scummy, they are certainly welcome to.

oh, i have fun, i really do

A. I'm not going to be involved in someone's ways of scumhunting, we all have different, and you stretching here
B. I didn't wanted participate in RVS too, i simply don't like that, doeas that makes me scum too?
C. Gamma, sure, and you use he's opinion? I guess so, since he agree with you on Pep, but i don't find him trustable, he don't have strong opinions, and he's reasonings to townread people are sketchy
D. Hm, maybe cause you try get him lynched and make defend himself all time, so he can't do much else? Just a guess of mine
E. Not gonna bother here
F. Where he said that?

i'm waiting real arguments that makes me see him as conf scum tomorrow then, cause case like this i could make on pretty much everyone here

[Ramcius]

Is this fucker posting above me really town, or am I just going crazy, or is he just has conf bias in his head?
Please send help, I think I'm genuinely going crazy.

All i see you conf bias towards Pep, and i still wait you arguments that makes me scumread him, and maybe stop insulting me already?

I don't try discredit Gamma, he haven't done yet anything to trust him, and all his defense on Alisae holds on DVV asking why Gamma townread him early in game, all he doing is telling us he try PoE game, and that's pretty much all we get from him

[Ramcius]

should have finished job with Alisae, Nyd... After that self vote i see more scummy Alisae, yesterday claimed, cause was scared Nyd might hammer, today provoke Nyd with self vote, lie about hammering self

[Ramcius]

It's called a reaction test. Have you ever heard about it before?

i know what is reaction test, but i pointed out how inconsistent your play was, first you claim, cause scared of Nyd hammer, then you provoke him, and still i see no reason for your claim back then, you not getting lynched today, and that Accountant vote putting you on L-2 changed literally nothing, and for VI, look at mirror, your vendetta on Pep getting really disgusting

and for the record, since it's newby game, town do a lot slips too, but that don't mean we should ignore slips for that reason

[Ramcius]

Lol. Ram, why are you getting frustrated?

And Kyouko, his posts stopped making sense to me along time ago. At this point I think he's just conf biasing me.

only person biased here is you towards Pep, and i'm not frustrated, i told few days ago we lynch DBW at deadline, and i just waiting for that, 2 week days are wayyy too long

[Ramcius]

You're biased towards a DBW lynch.

Also Kyouko, you're thoughts about Pep?

lol? I'm totally fine lynching you, DBW or Gamma, and i told that like 3 days ago, and at this point seems like DBW have 4 votes at deadline (2 already + mine and Kyo), so he's dead, and you becoming VI, that's why i prefer PL you, and losing VT (if you really are VT, which i doubt) wouldn't be big loss

[Ramcius]

Accountant...I don't feel like pushing Ram because he's town.

Accountant said you try discredit me, so your wagon wouldn't look good, and i agree with him, you don't even try defend against my accusations, simply try offend me and make me look stupid

[Ramcius]

Um, being called a VI isn't really offensive but okay whatever floats your boat.

sure, sure, i could bring, when you tried offend my intelligence saying i lack game knowledge (when i doubted your "i wouldn't do that as scum"), or calling me fucker, for pointing out how weak was your arguments against Pep, and it's good time to tell i'm biased again for bringing it up

[Ramcius]

Ok going to take the test now then i can play this... What information would Alisae's flip bring us if he flips town? Or who do you think his scumpartner is if he is scum?

His saying that i'm biased towards DBW and not wanting discuss DBW PL at end of deadline says me it might be his partner, hence Alisae getting really frustrated for him being so passive, everyone else more or less agree on DBW lynch at deadline, at least i can eliminate some sumpartners - people that he tried befriend - Accountant, Gamma, Nyd, and considering we most likely lose someone at night too, that will narrow search too

[Ramcius]

Alisae, if you know who is who as you claim, who is second mafia, besides Pep?

[Ramcius]

i was thinking about Alisae and DBW team, and i remembered another thing that pinged me - when Alisae replaced in, he ignored L-2 wagon on DBW, called Pep scum and buddied Accountant against Nyd, but what pinged me was later, when after all initial fights Alisae said he ISOed DBW and found out that he have only 8 posts, question is, why Alisae didn't ISOed DBW earlier? He was biggest wagon, he even intended hammer him, but didn't ISOed?

[Ramcius]

Charloux softed he's PR when talked about his secret plan, personally i was put him on watcher/tracker, but doc makes some sense too

As for Alisae, claiming VT was bad, if he wasn't lynched, mafia would have narrowed down PR target for night, since they wouldn't kill Alisae, not talking about hammer self (Gamma, it wasn't reaction test, it was self lynch, even reaction test at L-2 is insane), i was going change for DBW closer to deadline, cause i doubt anyone else would hammered him there

And maybe unvote DBW? He's at L-1 already

What makes you all see Kyo so towny? After replacing in he wasn't said much, so he's null for me

[Ramcius]

So, why DBW still L-1? Are we going lynch him? I hope you know risks at this point - he flip town and we in LyLo

[Ramcius]

Why changing opinion on someone is wrong? And this inconsistent argument i call bs, we had a night phase, some of us got night results, we had lot discussion, we got Alisae flip, so why people can't change their reads?

Why attack Gamma for being away before deadline? He wouldn't change anything, if was there, and he wasn't important all game, just was there, trying to PoE game and that's all, so please explain why he was important at deadline, or it's start of frame on Gamma?

And no one answered, why townread Kyo? What i'm missing?

[Ramcius]

also, since DBW at L-2 now, i wonder why mafia didn't hammered him? sure, we lynch hammering mafia tomorrow, but then mafia goes in 3 man LyLo on D4, so, what your ideas why mafia didn't do that? Do they think they can get ML anyway today?

[Ramcius]

Please don't vote DBW for now. That is extremely lazy play.

huh? you voted him early in D2, ignored my request to unvote, when he was L-1, and now you say this, when only 1 vote on him and everyone already wait his replacement? It really pings me

[Ramcius]

Please don't vote DBW for now. That is extremely lazy play.

huh? you voted him early in D2, ignored my request to unvote, when he was L-1, and now you say this, when only 1 vote on him and everyone already wait his replacement? It really pings me

I mean that you shouldn't vote someone in the process of being replaced.

indeed, you blatantly prod dodging

[Ramcius]

Sigh, why this can't be normal game and people act protown instead everyone trying look scummy af?

VOTE: Gamma

i really don't like that OMGUS, and Pep has point, Gamma only did was saying he PoE game all D1, now he stopped even doing that, and his PoE was he had 4 town leans from early game, 2 weeks later nothing changed, also, i listed Gamma as possible lynch at end of D1, so no, i'm not defending Pep here

And Nyd acting weird, why vote replacement? I understand you won't be here, so why vote at all? deadline nowhere close

[Ramcius]

Ramcius what is yuor read on pep?

leaning scum, he very defensive, but i don't see efforts solve game

[Ramcius]

So you say you want wait someone else to push lynch and you stand and watch? How you supposed win then as town? Cause atm everyone does same

[Ramcius]

Accountant what are your reads on Gamma?

Slight scumlean.

@Ramcius: Let's say Pep gets hammered right now. How do you feel about that? Would you take explicit steps to stop a hammer(a proper one, with roleclaims and everything) in order to push Gamma?

You counting on Kyo to hammer? I'm not too much, and Pep seems know he's not getting hammered - i'm not hammering, Speedy still new, so won't hammer, that leaves only Kyo, and from he did yet i can't see hammer, and what more important, Pep at L-1 and no one from voters ask him to claim, this game is really bizarre

[Ramcius]

Maybe because voters know who he is?

doubt both mafia would be in wagon, and cop would tell who's mafia (if we rolled cop ofc), but who knows with these people, maybe both mafia on wagon

[Ramcius]

@srceenplay: what changed your read on Ramcius?

now this is interesting, you don't ask why Pep is top town read, the person you voting, instead you ask about me, considering you was townreading me all time (haven't saw if that's changed lately)

[Ramcius]

Hey, I have an idea here. Don't cramp my style.

why not? i see something weird, i ask, and i do all game that, and what i see here, is you not so much interested in Pep lynch, and that's weird, why keep someone at L-1, if you not interested in lynch

[Ramcius]

@srceenplay: what changed your read on Ramcius?

At the beginning I felt like Account was handing off to him, on NY. Later in the day he seems critical of other people's voting. It looked like he was genuinely trying to take time and think out the Pep vs Alisea. He wouldn't let Alisea or anyone manipulate his thought process. He said multiple times ,we still have daytime left... no need to rush.

I still would like to se a read list from him and you as well gama.
Would it not be a good time to compare all of ours, see if we can come to a consinces on who to pressure?

Gama I felt you sheeped conflict all d1. Is there anyone who didn't get pressure that you feel needs some?

Is Pep still at L-1? Does no one else see the Pep vs Alisea as TvT?

It's seems like Account likes to start conflict and stands back and watches someone else finish it.

hm, my reads, you and Kyo null, everyone else seems try compete who is more scummy, voting for sake of voting (DBW earlier, Pep now), people at L-1 and they don't care, atm my vote on Gamma, i still try understand what he is doing

[Ramcius]

I am interested in that lynch but I have other questions currently.

No you are not trying to push for my lynch. You just came in put it on and then left it for somebody else to finish. This either means you are weary of who I might end being or you know it and don't want to take the blame for it. This is a scum move imo.

I have other games yo. Give me time to get to this.

well, it's only on you for playing many games, but thing is not that you inactive, but that you do and say things that makes no sense, at least for me, and considering this game is very small, everyone's input is important

[Ramcius]

wasn't there some fight between Pep and Nyd D1 too? And i think he voiced wish lynch DBW

can you explain why Kyo is towny?

[Ramcius]

At this point i'm ok with Accountant lynch, i was against before, cause i wanted get rid lurkers and Accountant was more active, so better choice for late game, but now he do nothing, and i really puzzled how town IC could let it go DBW L-1 on start of D2 without a blink, and vote on Pep was to get reaction, yet Pep L-1 and Accountant doesn't care, don't push, don't ask claim

I'm certain for 1 thing now - Screen/Pep isn't scum team, no scum would put partner on top townread, when that partner is at L-1, well, probably scum wouldn't put anyone on top townread, if that person is L-1 - it's asking for attention, and no scum want it

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Accountant

i can smell bs from a mile, and your defense is full of it, you started Alisae wagon, promised explain later, but explanation never came, you just backed off, when i took it over, you saw me confronting him, only needed push, and i did all dirty work for you, sure, this isn't enough, i won't go back in D1 for more, when we have stuff in D2, vote on DBW at start of D2, why? without explanation, without reasoning, and when you say you was so busy with things, well, it's a rock in everyone's garden to let him at L-1 without asking to claim or doing anything, but you an IC, you should know how dangerous is putting lurker to L-1 and hammer would bring us to LyLo, when you saw it's not happening, you changed to Pep, as you said, to see where it leads, yet you do nothing, not asking claim, not pushing, but neither taking vote back, question is, if you so busy, why start voting at start of day between Christmas and New year? We have 2 weeks

[Ramcius]

Hmm. I see the points being made on Acc but feel like nyd is more likely to flip scum, unless it's Gamma/Acc? Seems like there's somewhat circular relationships within [Gamma, Nyd, Accountant]. Defenses of one another in some places, the way Nyd uses Acc/Gamma's reaction to his post as the standard and judge's Pep for it.

Acc and Nyd's relationship D1 could have been distancing as well, seems like they moved from SRing one another pretty strongly early and then end up ignoring/TRing each other later. There was that meta dive from nyd and then Accountant sort of fell off and ended up pushing Alisae and I. Pushing Pep now too, they're all on that wagon now actually, until that unvote which could be the scumteam realizing their wagon wasn't going to go through.

Could go anywhere in those 3 at this point but would prefer Nyd, he seems to make sense with either of the others.

Is it all you have against Nyd? Cause now you look like defending Acc after he getting heat

[Ramcius]

Hmm. I see the points being made on Acc but feel like nyd is more likely to flip scum, unless it's Gamma/Acc? Seems like there's somewhat circular relationships within [Gamma, Nyd, Accountant]. Defenses of one another in some places, the way Nyd uses Acc/Gamma's reaction to his post as the standard and judge's Pep for it.

Acc and Nyd's relationship D1 could have been distancing as well, seems like they moved from SRing one another pretty strongly early and then end up ignoring/TRing each other later. There was that meta dive from nyd and then Accountant sort of fell off and ended up pushing Alisae and I. Pushing Pep now too, they're all on that wagon now actually, until that unvote which could be the scumteam realizing their wagon wasn't going to go through.

Could go anywhere in those 3 at this point but would prefer Nyd, he seems to make sense with either of the others.

Is it all you have against Nyd

? Cause now you look like defending Acc after he getting heat

Could you rephrase that question? Not sure what "it" is referring to. I'm not defending him, I suspect the team is within [Nyd, Gamma, Accountant]. Nyd is the most obvious of the 3 imo and should be lynched first. Both Acc and Gamma were playing similarly yesterday, I pointed out what looked like posturing to me back then. Have 2 mislynches left so I guess it doesn't matter which we lynch first if I'm right, but I might be wrong which is why I'd rather lynch my top SR.

i asked why Nyd is most obvious? When it was Accountant in both wagons D2, and it's he started Pep wagon, when saw DBW isn't getting lynched, and now giving bs about not having time to game, and now you suspect Gamma? When me and Pep was pushing and voting, you said nothing, but when wagon forming on Acc, you bring Nyd and Gamma, so yes, i call you susp, yet i have to see your reasons to "Nyd is most obv", and let's not forget your vote on Alisae at end of D1, for me it looked like came from nowhere tbh

P-edit: UNVOTE: Accountant

just to prevent hammer before he comes and give time to claim, and Pep, your demand to hammer looks fishy

[Ramcius]

Oh Gamma isn't a new thing you can read my iso, but I'll quote where I first pointed him out. Nyd is most obvious for 2 things. 1) the big fight D1 between Nyd and Alisae when Pep was on the side reading, I got the impression one of those 3 was scum and the other was outside, either that or maybe it was just the outsiders that were scum. And 2) the way he used Accountant/Gamma's interpretations of his behavior as an arbitrary gauge for measuring Pep's interpretation of that same behavior, then came to the conclusion Pep was scum for it.

Spoiler: Posts involving my D1 Gamma suspicions

BTW Kyouko, if you hop on my wagon, I have a good feeling Nyd will hammer it even if it's at L-1.

I saw him talking about hammering the DBW slot because it was (is, as far as I've caught up) lurking but I think he was speaking out of frustration about lynching anyone. I doubt he would lynch his townreads, he seems to organize the game the way I do: push people one way or another away from a neutral line and be willing to compromise to lynch anyone who you aren't strongly TRing, even nulls, if necessary. Of course I'll keep working to sort nulls to get above my "lynch line" or figure out if they're likely scum but I think if pepchoninga, for example, were L-1 at this point he would not hammer pep. Pep's one of his strongest TRs where I'm reading

What makes you think I'm going to hop on your wagon out of curiosity? Did you do something naughty I haven't read yet?

Because for some reason people think I'm scum. Also I don't think Nyd would hammer Pep because of this:

Also Nyd, let me ask you another question. As scum, what is your opinion in bussing your partner? Have you ever done it before?

In video mafia yes. I don't think I've ever rolled scum on forum before though. I would never bus a partner if I only had 1 though unless it was a LYLO/MYLO situation.

Also, do you think this is wierd or nah?

Nyd come join the Pep wagon! We have a nice, comfy seat for ya.

Go away vile temptress! I'd like to note that DBW hasn't even voted anyone yet.

VOTE: pep[/unvote]

... I'm horrible at this.

VOTE: pep

This seat isn't actually that comfortable. You lied.

VOTE: DBW

Also look at the timestamps as well. I think they're like all less then a minute.

I've got context now. Looks like he sees Accountant vote an inactive and decides it will be ok to park his vote on an inactive as well. Common scum tactic to stall for time by both of them, but Accountant's vote actually makes sense (Mewtaph was here to talk in RVS but now that there's a big cockfight in the middle of the thread he's nowhere to be seen), whereas nyd's vote is just because DBW lurking without context. Charloux's vote is also sitting there now, but I'm not fully caught up yet. I assume he hasn't posted in the last few pages if there's a request to prod him out though. Didn't like Charloux's line asking about why do people always SR him in games. Some of those on-the-outskirts slots (DBW, Charloux, Gamma, by ascending order of activity) I'd want to hear from them. Gamma almost looks like he's posturing but I feel like I always think that about him and never read him right If we have to deadline lynch someone I'd do DBW but we have a couple of days to work with here. Oh I completely forgot about that Ramcius guy too. Will probably ISO him and Charloux after catchup because I feel like I got mixed signals from their early game and they didn't post much through the post I'm at now.

i just love how Gamma and Alisae try persuade people join Pep wagon without trying prove he's scum anymore, just begging lynch him

Ramicius problem is Alis and as it seems Gamma too don't actually have any good leads on me. Alis just want to push for a mysslinch. Gamma is either just hopping on it to see what happens or is scum himself.

Also let me remind you I haven't defended Nyd and if I did it definitely wasn't a buddy request. If I defneded him it was to get a stronger case on you and/or Accountat. You are just trying to pull something out of fingers.

Also you talk about Gamma like you are the best buddies and fight crime together. Are YOU buddying him, or are you both crime buddies. Since it didn't seem like he wanted to latch to somebody the way you have seen from the start of the game.

oh good I'm not the only one that reads Gamma this way at least. I do think it's his playstyle but I've only completed one game with him as town and never seen his scumgame

pedit: Posturing around the Accountant/ Nyd/ Pep/ Alisae fight, like trying to see which way the tide is turning before committing to something. I'm on my first read though so maybe I'm just noticing the rest of the players in the game less than these 4

Alisae was starting to act really anti-town at the end. Calling out Charloux as a PR tell looks like something scum would do to tell their teammate who to NK if scum!Alisae thought her lynch was inevitable, because there is no daytalk. D1 I was thinking there was probably 1 scum in [Ali, Pep, Nyd] and the other scum in [Charloux, Gamma, Accountant, DBW]. You were my only TR going into that lynch and I've still felt pretty good about that read up until the Accountant unvote you just did. You say it's to avoid a hammer but nobody quickhammers because quickhammering gets you lynched the next day on this site. If we were in LyLo it'd be different but that was weird

yes, i already noticed no one want quickhammer, but i unvoted cause of last Pep message - he asked you to hammer, which i find weird, so better be cautious than sorry later, we have time

[Ramcius]

you started Alisae wagon, promised explain later, but explanation never came, you just backed off, when i took it over, you saw me confronting him, only needed push, and i did all dirty work for you, sure, this isn't enough, i won't go back in D1 for more, when we have stuff in D2, vote on DBW at start of D2, why? without explanation, without reasoning, and when you say you was so busy with things, well, it's a rock in everyone's garden to let him at L-1 without asking to claim or doing anything, but you an IC, you should know how dangerous is putting lurker to L-1 and hammer would bring us to LyLo, when you saw it's not happening, you changed to Pep, as you said, to see where it leads, yet you do nothing, not asking claim, not pushing, but neither taking vote back, question is, if you so busy, why start voting at start of day between Christmas and New year?

Okay, let's go over these accusations one by one.

1) I started Alisae wagon but never explained myself and let others push it. I have already explained my reasoning in the previous post.

2) That I L-1ed DBW for no reason. Well, the reason is that I love wagoning people. I think it places great pressure on them and it helps to motivate them to post more and post better. It also forces people to take a stance early, so scum can't fencesit and blend in. Finally I felt DBW was scummy enough to be L-1ed.

3) That as an IC I should have not let DBW sit at L-1. This is nonsense. First of all it's perfectly natural and valid to let a scummy person sit at L-1. Second of all I have already warned everyone not to hammer without a claim. I'm not sure what you meant by "dangerous". Who here do you think is likely to randomly hammer DBW before a roleclaim?

4) That I am not pushing Pep. This is nonsense. I have been consistently advocating for his lynch and engaging with both him and Screenplay for the past few pages.

i understand, it's newbie game, but doesn't mean we stupid - DBW scummy? He's a lynchbait, he was good lynch D1, but not when we 1 ML from LyLo, or you try tell us hardcore lurking/inactivity is scum sign? Simply IC from other place explained me very clearly that lurkers are most likely VT (oh, i didn't wanted agree with him despite i knew he's right, i just needed that last ML in LyLo )

yes, you push lynch on Pep, but aren't town more interested to hear his claim first?

to answer your question who would hammer DBW at L-1 i just say what i said before in here - another ML will bring mafia to LyLo, sure we lynch one of them, then we get 3 man LyLo, since doc out already

[Ramcius]

hardcore lurking/inactivity is scum sign? Simply IC from other place explained me very clearly that lurkers are most likely VT

Yes. Lurking/inactivity is a scummy behavior and should be punished. I'm not saying we should lynch someone on that alone - that's silly and scummy - but I have absolutely no issue with voting someone to L-1 just because he's scummy. Again, the threat of a random mislynch(via quickhammer) happening isn't really true here. There isn't anyone here who would be that reckless, I think.

no, there no mafia so reckless, i would do without a blink - scoring 1 ML easier than scoring 2, and 3 man LyLo, when mafia can choose who goes in there (2 NK) is really sweet idea

yes, it's scummy, but NAI, and you knew DBW not going talk from being voted, heck, we were going lynch him on D1 at deadline, he didn't care, so your vote i find opportunistic, same wagon on Pep later, and now you try cover with "lurkers are scum"

VOTE: Accountant

[Ramcius]

yes, it's scummy, but NAI, and you knew DBW not going talk from being voted, heck, we were going lynch him on D1 at deadline, he didn't care, so your vote i find opportunistic, same wagon on Pep later, and now you try cover with "lurkers are scum"

Lurking is not the only reason I voted DBW. Didn't you read? He's one of the 3 people I wanted to lynch today(because two of them were scum), and at that point he's the most likely to be lynched.

Also, would you like me to provide games where I voted someone for lurking as town?

no, i want to know why DBW looked scummy? And why you wanted him dead at start of D2?

[Ramcius]

no, i want to know why DBW looked scummy? And why you wanted him dead at start of D2?

Do you understand what the process of elimination is?

i know, but you didn't answered, why you voted him early in D2, when you was busy, while we have whole 2 weeks? And don't tell me about PoE reasons to get rid of lynchbait, when it's 1 lynch to LyLo

also, it's about time to claim, don't you think so?

[Ramcius]

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

i gotta love this, why scum help town in trouble? It an easy way to look towny, i can tell that from personal experience, how you don't know that is mystery to me

[Ramcius]

i know, but you didn't answered, why you voted him early in D2, when you was busy, while we have whole 2 weeks? And don't tell me about PoE reasons to get rid of lynchbait, when it's 1 lynch to LyLo

Why would I not vote him? Rather, what is the benefit in delaying my vote on him?

You tell me that voting someone for PoE reasons when it's one lynch to LyLo is bad. Consider the following points:

1) Voting someone is not lynching them.
2) It's better to get rid of lynchbait before LyLo than run the risk of them getting lynched during LyLo and losing town the game.
2) The PoE reason is not to get rid of lynchbait. I think there is actually a significant chance DBW is scum.

1) ofc not, but without voting you can't lynch anyone
2) agree, and that's why i wanted him out D1, we didn't lynched him then, so why rush on him at start of day? It was proven he won't cooperate with us if we push votes on him, so waiting and discussing all options would be wise, but rushing to get lynch isn't looking wise and towny to me
3) Sure, sure, Pep and DBW are scums, i know, Gamma is just little scum lean, everyone have right to have their own opinions, but i prefer facts

And why is Gamma the towniest? What has he done for the benefit of town?

For one, he helped to clear nydushermain as town by pointing out his D2 reactions. Why would scum do that? I think scum!Gamma would be likely to try to get nydusher lynched rather than help him out.

i gotta love this, why scum help town in trouble? It an easy way to look towny, i can tell that from personal experience, how you don't know that is mystery to me

The problem is that the credit you get from helping town is little, but the town can go on to cause trouble for you later. For example in LyLo if they are confirmed it's much harder to get them lynched, so instead of a 3/5 chance to lynch town it's only 2/5. Do not underestimate the power of a confirmed townie.

Secondly, I agree that it doesn't fully clear Gamma. That is why he is still on the list. But it makes him look better compared to the others on the list.

"Scum Gamma wouldn't do that"
"But scum can easily do so"
"Ok, you right, Gamma can be scum"

And i like your argument with confirmed town, i really like your way to trow me off from tracks, Nyd by far not confirmed town, but if he dies tonight, then Gamma will be more townread for defending town right now, and if talk about conf town, it will be probably me getting NK tonight for that reason

[Ramcius]

"Scum Gamma wouldn't do that"
"But scum can easily do so"
"Ok, you right, Gamma can be scum"

Yes, that is why Gamma is

still

on my shit list. I have him listed as nullscum.

exactly, first you try tell he's can't be scum, cause defended Nyd, but took back later, when i pointed that scum easily could do so

1) I agree. But then you can't say that me voting someone is equivalent to me trying to quicklynch them.
2) Oh? Where did I rush to lynch DBW? Or was I merely rushing to vote him? Even if he doesn't cooperate, it's useful to see who else rushes to vote him, because it tells me who else doesn't like Gamma.
3) You are asking me why I did a certain thing, so of course my opinion would be a big part of the reasoning for me doing those things.

1) i can, you put DBW at L-1, isn't that close enough to lynch?
2) So, you wanted to see who will hammer? And Gamma what have with it? Was Kyo and Nyd votes before yours
3) your opinions should have some ground, and don't tell me other people are so conf town in your eyes, i don't buy that

[Ramcius]

1) i can, you put DBW at L-1, isn't that close enough to lynch?
2) So, you wanted to see who will hammer? And Gamma what have with it? Was Kyo and Nyd votes before yours
3) your opinions should have some ground, and don't tell me other people are so conf town in your eyes, i don't buy that

1) No. Contrary to popular belief, you need to make one more vote after L-1 before the person can be lynched.

2) I wanted to see who will get on the wagon with me. I also wanted to see who conspicuously wouldn't get on the wagon.

3) There is ground. I scumread DBW because everyone else looked town and someone has to be scum. Do you not buy that I townread you and nydusher?

1) you asked, if i think you tried quicklynch, and putting someone at L-1 at start of day is pushing quicklynch in my book
2) you saw 2 ppl on wagon, you putting him on L-1 prevented people from joining his wagon - hammering him would be really scummy, so i take your answer as a bs again, you did opposite to what you say you wanted
3) So you didn't scumread Pep at start of the day? Everyone town, only poor DBW, who wrote like 10 1-liners was your only scumread? And thing is, if you scum, you already know who's town, and who's not, so no, i don't buy your townread me and Nyd as a town, i trust Pep more for calling me scummy again, cause i feel i stepping over the line sometimes with my pushes

[Ramcius]

i was thinking and realized something, Accountant talking about how powerful conf town is said chance with conf town to lynch townie D3 would be 2/5 instead of 3/5, that's gives nothing by itself, but if reading between lines - we misslynch today by this math, so why, Accountant, you so sure we will ML?

[Ramcius]

Oh shoot just realized I never replied to this thread earlier today. Want to wait until nyd comes back since we have time to, before considering hammering Accountant. Still think that Nyd/Gamma is possible so not too keen on this lynch yet

Also, in response to what Accountant asked me a few pages back, Pep fits in as town there, as is implied in the post:

Hmm. I see the points being made on Acc but feel like nyd is more likely to flip scum, unless it's Gamma/Acc? Seems like there's somewhat circular relationships within [Gamma, Nyd, Accountant]. Defenses of one another in some places, the way Nyd uses Acc/Gamma's reaction to his post as the standard and judge's Pep for it.

Acc and Nyd's relationship D1 could have been distancing as well, seems like they moved from SRing one another pretty strongly early and then end up ignoring/TRing each other later. There was that meta dive from nyd and then Accountant sort of fell off and ended up pushing Alisae and I. Pushing Pep now too, they're all on that wagon now actually, until that unvote which could be the scumteam realizing their wagon wasn't going to go through.

Could go anywhere in those 3 at this point but would prefer Nyd, he seems to make sense with either of the others.

Where is Pep here?

At least it seemed like it would be apparent Pep fits in as town there. Not sure how it could be read in any other way

Accountant want you to scumread Pep and asked why he not in your scums list, at least that my understanding

[Ramcius]

i'm just waiting Accountant claim at this point or hammer, not really care which comes first

[Ramcius]

Someone would need to give intent before a claim.

I think Nyd already said he would hammer, and seems like Kyo thinking about hammer, only exception is Gamma, Acc is obvtown in his book

[Ramcius]

Accountant said he voted DBW cause of PoE, he was only scumread - DBW

Personally i wanted lynch DBW on D1 not cause i scumread, but since we failed find good scumread i was ok with cutting dead weight, and D2 was too late, we are 1 lynch from LyLo

Also, Nyd, can you explain your DBW scumread? And i don't accept lurking as scum confirmation

[Ramcius]

Cause lurking is NAI, and we had 3 lurkers that got replaced, DBW just lasted longest, so why not suspect Kyo for that matter too? DBW i saw as bored VT rather than a scum, and Srceenplay gives me town impression

[Ramcius]

I read ssbm towny as well as mewtaph

so, you had townread on Mewtaph despite he had quite few messages and was lurking, but you scumread DBW for lurking? and also we got another lurker slot lynched D1, and that flipped VT, so your logic hold no water so to say

I can't remember, it was you, who defended against my accusations telling i should see that town could do things i called scumslips too, not just scum? Or it was Charloux?

Also, could you tell me why you so aggressive tell people they should read you as a town? Cause i saw that 2 times already on D2

[Ramcius]

I read ssbm towny as well as mewtaph

so, you had townread on Mewtaph despite he had quite few messages and was lurking, but you scumread DBW for lurking? and also we got another lurker slot lynched D1, and that flipped VT, so your logic hold no water so to say

I can't remember, it was you, who defended against my accusations telling i should see that town could do things i called scumslips too, not just scum? Or it was Charloux?

Also, could you tell me why you so aggressive tell people they should read you as a town? Cause i saw that 2 times already on D2

1. I townread mewtaph because his content was towny, regardless of whether or not he had low activity. DBW did nothing that I thought was particularly alignment indicative in his posts. I don't scumread DBW for lurking. I just don't townread him so he's in my PoE. I never said I scumread anyone for lurking.... Reread perhaps?

2. Don't know what this is about

3. Quote them

Also, what if I had him as scum for lurking? What can't you accept about that?

this, and my point is that lurking is NAI, and at this point we have replacement of DBW, but you insist on your DBW read, instead doing read on his replacement, and all you say is lurking to scumread him

I like discussion and all, but why is this the topic?

Ram you trying to make a case on nyd maybe?

Not really, but we still don't know second scum, and Nyd can be it, Acc pointed out Gamma's defense on Nyd, thus trying portray Nyd as town from Gamma defending Nyd for his reactions, and he's only Acc townread besides me, also, he was on both wagons D2

[Ramcius]

1) you asked, if i think you tried quicklynch, and putting someone at L-1 at start of day is pushing quicklynch in my book
2) you saw 2 ppl on wagon, you putting him on L-1 prevented people from joining his wagon - hammering him would be really scummy, so i take your answer as a bs again, you did opposite to what you say you wanted
3) So you didn't scumread Pep at start of the day? Everyone town, only poor DBW, who wrote like 10 1-liners was your only scumread? And thing is, if you scum, you already know who's town, and who's not, so no, i don't buy your townread me and Nyd as a town, i trust Pep more for calling me scummy again, cause i feel i stepping over the line sometimes with my pushes

1) Why? Why does L-1 magically equal the desire for a quicklynch?
2) Nonsense. They could very well express intent to hammer or say something along the lines of "I would join the wagon if it wasn't already L-1". In short, I

wanted to see where the wagon would go

.
3) No. I thought Pep was a decent lynch at the start of the day, as expressed by the fact that I put him in the list of 3 people I want to lynch. But DBW's wagon was larger, and I like large wagons. They're more juicy, and I can switch over to Pep any time I want. I definitely townread you and Nyd. Your pushes are completely irrelevant. There's no way to fake the tone you have as newbie scum.

1) maybe because it's 1 vote from lynch?
2) or you could wait and watch who will put him at L-1, intent to hammer requires much more courage than put someone at L-1, so expecting someone do so at this pool of people after D1 was very optimistic
3) You literally said DBW was your only scumread from PoE, now you going back to Pep? And Gamma comes to list later?

2 are likely town? Who said that? You? Or do you have evidence that we aren't aware off. Your statistics are not backed by any evidence. Numbers are not always better then logic you know. You are actually just ignoring the use of logic atm.

Sorry, but I wasn't at L-1 when I voted you. A little mistake by you, or a bad try to make me look bad? Honestly I think you are slipping.

I think Ramcius and Nydusher are likely town because the way they conduct theirselves, the mindset from which they approach the game is very difficult to fake as scum and is therefore certainly town.

I did not say you were at L-1

. I suggested that you were hopping onto my wagon because it was a counter wagon to yours. There was certainly a wagon on you; as a member of the mafia, you were terrified of being lynched. Therefore you eagerly hopped onto a wagon that you thought might be a good alternative to your wagon. There is no claim here that you were at L-1.

Who was gonna hammer him? Me and Srceen was against, Kyo wasn't interested in that either, so he had no reason to be scared, and you not scared being at L-1 with intent to hammer?

[Ramcius]

I didn't give intent. Just that it was tempting

who you want lynch then?

[Ramcius]

Nyd, when people will start calling me scum, i will consider changing my ways of playing here, but for now i'm confident, and you say my pushes are awful? I see this as people being awful at being/pretending to be town, ask yourself, why it's only me townread by pretty much all, while everyone else is on 2-3 ppl scumlist?

I think this day goes without lynch, so

VOTE: No lynch

i just can't any longer, sooner we start night and i get out of here, the better

P-edit: very nice, Nyd, you jsut said Srceen is town for putting Pep on top townread, the very same reason i townread, and you call my read on him random?

[Ramcius]

Nyd, when people will start calling me scum, i will consider changing my ways of playing here, but for now i'm confident, and you say my pushes are awful? I see this as people being awful at being/pretending to be town, ask yourself, why it's only me townread by pretty much all, while everyone else is on 2-3 ppl scumlist?

I think this day goes without lynch, so

VOTE: No lynch

i just can't any longer, sooner we start night and i get out of here, the better

P-edit: very nice, Nyd, you jsut said Srceen is town for putting Pep on top townread, the very same reason i townread, and you call my read on him random?

Haha was that the reason? What I meant was that you said people were not acting towny at all and just scummy and then you said that screen was towny when he was the newest replacement which I found to be a pretty quick read on someone. I didn't really note the reason. And I didn't say screen is town for putting pep as his top town read, I just think that there's at least one mafia in pep and accountant and I think that the reason why pep+screen isn't likely is because of his top town read on pep. Then, there's also the acc+screen interaction which I think is highly unlikely. It's not a one dimensional, he's towny cuz he read pep towny read.

My reasoning was that Pep and Srceen can't be scum team, no scum would want put his buddy on top of his townreads, when that buddy is at L-1, and i added that i doubt scum would put town there too, cause it would raise too many questions, if Pep get lynched and flip town - guy comes as replacement and knows someone at L-1 is town, that's very susp and attracts too much attention

VOTE: Accountant

[Ramcius]

@accountant, I'm going to hammer you after your next post if you're not a power role. This is my intent to vote on you

Have quite a lot of work but will try to comment on the things that have been happening and get inti the discussion. For now this.

What would him saying he is a power role do? If he is town it would be easy for scum to counter claim. I don't think that role claiming itself would do much. Rather if he is willing to do it.

scum can't counterclaim - in that case Accountant get lynched most likely and scum will get rope D3, if that's their plan, they could simple hammer any of L-1 in D2, but i fear we might have mass claim, if Acc claims PR anyway, we have no idea what role list we got, to know that requires 3 roles to know while we got only 1 now

[Ramcius]

ah, yes, i was somehow thinking it's a row and column, so we got just 1 PR left, that's complicates things

[Ramcius]

Gamma, are you going let lynch one of your obvtown reads just like this?

[Ramcius]

that gg sounds so bad

[Ramcius]

Gamma wasn't inactive, he was spamming other game tread quite a bit, while here he said nothing