Newbie 1444 ~ Game Ovah ~ Mafia Win

[BugKitteh]

Yeah, I'm very comfortable on the bald lynch train.

Also Merry Christmas!

[BugKitteh]

Bug, I'm pretty sure Kytoixd isn't gonna get lynched today, but I was just curious to see why someone who was obv town since Day 1 is still alive in MYLO.

You're desperate, aren't ya?

[1baldeagle1]

vote: baldeagle

Are you seriously gonna do this after the "claimed BP" is still alive?

I have some reasons for zipper/Truffle scum, but I lazy right now and we have plenty of time. Expect it to be tonight or tomorrow.

why are you trying to spread paranoia about me?

Ok. If you were scum, can you explain to me why zipper would be a good night kill on Night 1?

Also, I just realized that Kytoxid is still alive given the fact he was obv town since Day 1... Hmmm

you are spreading paranoia for kyt now. why? you just want anyone to be lynched zzz.
if my predecsso had good reads scum want to shoot that quietly
sucks he was bp + had protection : ]

Still on V/LA, but found a spot of Internet for a quick post.

notscience's death shakes up my confidence that bald is scum, mostly because NS was leaning Truffle-scum, while I was leaning eagle-scum at the end of D4 (I think), and NS died instead of me.

The question comes down to Zipper-scum attempted a kill N1 and was blocked, or whether he was targeted and protected N1. From what I remember of his D2 stuff, especially near the end of the day, I think BP is a pretty believable claim, but I'll need to look back at it when I have more time.

bald wants you to think that. hes trying to frame me. i was next on choppin blck after maria. framing a kill makes my death certain. dont give into his lies. shot on me n1 proves bald scum

Still on V/LA, but found a spot of Internet for a quick post.

notscience's death shakes up my confidence that bald is scum, mostly because NS was leaning Truffle-scum, while I was leaning eagle-scum at the end of D4 (I think), and NS died instead of me.

The question comes down to Zipper-scum attempted a kill N1 and was blocked, or whether he was targeted and protected N1. From what I remember of his D2 stuff, especially near the end of the day, I think BP is a pretty believable claim, but I'll need to look back at it when I have more time.

There's still one thing that doesn't make sense. Why did zipper finally claim

after

Thor claimed JK? It just doesn't seem right, and it seems like to me that he waited for someone else to claim a PR so it would add up on the Matrix6 setup. Because, if scum knows that they don't have a roleblocker but someone is JK, then they can fakeclaim BP without being cced because there's no other BP in the setup.

As far as NS dying because he was scumreading zipper/Truffles, I'm pretty sure Bulba was scumreading zipper at one point during Day 3, guess who died that night...


Bug, let's put it this way. If you are scum on Night 1, who do you kill?
A. Thor
B. Zipper

Bug, I'm pretty sure Kytoixd isn't gonna get lynched today, but I was just curious to see why someone who was obv town since Day 1 is still alive in MYLO.

what does zipper v thor mean? if zipper has better reads he gets killed. do you guys kill ppl because of rep here?? : \ thats mean
i dont know why zipper did what he did. sorry. you are trying to spread paranoia for more lynches!! the stuff about kyt is definitely feeling the temp of water for lynches. you are playing safe because youre last scum. die.

VOTE: bald

Gonna respond to each of your statements down a list.

I'm spreading paranoia because you're scum? What was the point of that question?

Kytoixd is obv town, since Day 1. And she's still alive in fucking MYLO. I think that's a legitimate reason to be paranoid. You are trying to discredit me by saying that I want anyone lynched. Also, I couldn't help but notice that you said "he" when you were referring to the BP claim. Why did you say "he". You're the "BP" right? But you slipped and said "he". He just slipped on the BP claim and he's still fucking alive in MYLO. I can't believe we aren't speedlynching him.

Nah, roleblock on you when your slot was making the kill on Night 1 proves you're scum.

The Thor v. Zipper thing is this.

Thor was more townish than zipper. If Thor is more townish, who do you kill? Thor. So, he roleblocked his killer.


It's basic mafia guys... Zipper didn't claim until Thor claimed JK, because from zipper's point of view, if there's no roleblocker, then it's probably safe to fake claim 1-Shot BP without being counter claimed. Zipper needed to know the town PRs in order to fakeclaim safely.

I swear to god, it's pretty obvious. If I get lynched, then I'm done playing Newbie games...

[1baldeagle1]

Kytoixd, if you are scum, good game.

[Malakittens]

5.01

With 4 alive it's 3 votes to lynch

Voting for:

*Kytoxid -
*Truffle -
*1baldeagle1 - BugKitteh, Truffle [2] [L-1]
*BugKitteh -

Not voting: 1baldeagle1, Kytoxid [2]

Day 5 ends in (expired on 2014-01-04 22:47:00)

[Kytoxid]

Posting to confirm I'm town.

[Kytoxid]

Also, I'm back from V/LA, but I'm still reading and thinking through stuff. Expect a post later tonight.

[Kytoxid]

Alright. Here's what I'm thinking. Overall, I'm still leaning Eagle for scum.

Deathless N1: Thor targets Zipper, no kill happens. I think Eagle would have played enough to not target the IC N1 in a newbie game, and Zipper is at the end of his town list from post 269, so it would make sense to be a kill target. Either way though, I think this doesn't tip the scales in either direction.

zipper's BP claim: The reason I believe zipper's BP claim is that he actually hinted at it after I put him to L-1 during day 2 in posts 540, 543, and 547. I didn't really realize this until post 582, but looking back at it, I think it was clear enough for me to believe. He picked words very carefully, saying he was a role that caused the deathless night, rather than a protective PR (or just some sort of PR). Points to zipper there.

Interactions with burn: Eagle's interactions are quite...extreme. He pushes hard for a burn lynch until post 398, where burn suddenly gets town points and votes for Thor instead. He then posts a pseudo-burn-defence/Thor-push starting from 641. Day 4, he goes back to burn scum with post 703, but also tries to suppress maria a bit in post 735, after zipper is replaced. Seems weird overall.

Bald, if you could clarify/summarize what caused the shifts I commented on, that would be appreciated.

As for zipper, his interactions with burn are a bit suspicious since he puts him in his scum category in post 513, but never actually pushes him until much later in the game, when it was pretty obvious.

Finally, bald's post 602 bugged me.

[Kytoxid]

Alright, 24 hours, no one has posted, so I assume no one has anything to say.

VOTE: 1baldeagle1

*crosses fingers*

[1baldeagle1]

Well, fuck I was about to get to this today.


I'm town btw.

You should have given me more time...

[Truffle]

im town 2.

[Malakittens]

5.01

With 4 alive it's 3 votes to lynch

Voting for:

*Kytoxid -
*Truffle -
*1baldeagle1 - BugKitteh, Truffle, Kytoxid [3] [LYNCH]
*BugKitteh -

Not voting: 1baldeagle1 [1]

Day 5 ends in (expired on 2014-01-04 22:47:00)

Bald was lynched he has a VT.

Gonna call it now since its 2:1 before the NK.

Kytoxid was killed. She was a VT. Bugkitteh was endgamed and a VT.

Truffles mafia goon has won.

Mafia team has won!

[1baldeagle1]

Kytoixd, next time, use up all of the time we have in MYLO/LYLO. Also, don't assume that 24 hours without a post that everyone is done talking.

GG, scum. I guess that BP claim helped out after all. Even, though it was pretty obvious you were scum.

W/e.

[notscience]

nah we all agreed you were scum in the dead QT lol

[1baldeagle1]

I still don't get how Truffles was obv town to everyone after being alive so long with the BP claim.

[Truffle]

cause im god damn adorable

[notscience]

^

[cxinlee]

wow bald was actually pretty town, at least I was right about that.

And zipper saying get off me after claiming bp pretty much sold scum to me (When i realised claimed bp =/= clear)

Will post more when I'm in a better mood tommorrow

Anyways, good game

[Thor665]

Anyways, good game

I will admit the frustration in me wants to simply call it a 'competitive' game' not a 'good' one.

I'll take a breather and do my usual write-up reviews later when not feeling it so keenly though. The scum certainly played pretty well.

[BugKitteh]

Heh. Yeah, the frustration definitely was on display in this game.

Sorry I was wrong, gang!

[Sakura Hana]

Don't fret too much over it, my play this game was awful too.

[maria13]

Sorry town, you were about to win too. At least on day four everything was much more tight, I think.

Happy new year to everyone !

[Kytoxid]

[Thor665]

Okay, so now I'm awake, not really badly hung-over, and ready to vent my spleen a little bit Which means it's time for...

Thor's Patented Wall o Reads & Blather!

This is a little thing I like to do post game as an IC in order to offer you a little review of the game. Now, these are just my opinions, so feel free to take them to heart as the dearest treasures ever...or to just shrug and go 'meh...dick' and ignore them fully. All I'm presenting is, from my perspective, what you, as a player, did well and/or need to work on doing better when moving forward in your mafiascum career. I won't always review everyone (generally speaking if you replaced out I figure you aren't coming back to read this) but, if you played in the game and I don't offer you a review and you'd like one, just ask, and I'll hook you up - I have enough blather for everyone

So, enough talk! Time for more talk!

Kytoxid

- First off, you were part of the general lurk and malise of the town players, and therefore get a slap on the wrist. To my mind you made a number of missteps this game, albeit most of them because you are still trying to learn the game. I did like how you noted that the notscience kill favored Zipper/Truffles and hurt Bald...I really wish you'd thought about that though. Also, I really didn't like how you (and a number of people) "liked" Zipper's softclaim. Here's a hint at why it was a bad claim - decide that he meant Doc, or JKer, or BP, then look at the claim and see which of those his comment supports. Hint: none of them) that makes it a very wide open claim, which means it confirms nothing. It doesn't prove him as scum but it hardly gives him any cred with his claim, what you need to do is look at who he is voting, how, and why, that's far more worthwhile info. I think you were wrong a lot in this game, and a lot of your pushes really bugged me, but I also think you managed to look fairly clearly town and also clearly were working quite hard at your scumhunting when you were here, which was nice to see. You will benefit heavily from some extra games under your belt to help you understand the difference between scum actions and just actions (like my so-called lack of explanation thing, wherein what your actual issue was my lack of freely offered information unless asked which is two different things) but I see a lot of things from you that look promising in a player.

Notscience

- I still want to club you about the head for the "sketch" thing. Seriously, that was bad...like, BAD. I still think you would be highly benefited from going and answering the question I challenged you with in the Dead QT - the wagon on me was actually, as you would say, super sketch, and that you didn't notice it being that bad is not a good thing. I will admit you are certainly in fine company for that, but let me note that literally both scum were voting me...that is not a good wagon for town when the entire scumteam is working to push it through, and you and every town who got on it needs to go back and read that wagon and look at how and why it was made, and then try to understand ways you could have noticed how bad it was. Other than that I found your play...mixed. As usual, you were town and were lurkish, and also you didn't add much a lot of the time when you did show up. This is especially aggravating because YOUR READS, OVERALL, WERE ACTUALLY PRETTY ACCURATE! So you had some good reads, but didn't discuss them much with others, and didn't try to help people understand them, and really just did your thing. That is not optimal, being town is a team game - you win with the town, not solo. It is important to get involved with your town reads, talk to them, try to understand their reads and get them to understand yours. If you and Bulba had talked to each other a bit more town probably could have steamrolled this.

BugKitteh

- In a world full of lurksacks, I felt you played the most overall town game as far as activity and generating discussion. You asked questions, answered them, and pressed for interplay. That is all quite solid and good stuff, keep doing that! I do think you missed a few obvious tells as regards Zipper's attitude towards Burn (seriously, look at how squirmy he got in conversation with you about lynching Burn first even though he said Burn was scum) Overall though your play was quite solid, you were maybe a bit too confident about stuff for bad reasons, but were painfully town in almost every post you made, so your only crime was being wrong 50% of the time, which isn't too painful for town, really.

Truffles

- Eh, you had a tough gig and were benefitted by all the lurking and derping of the town. I think you picked an excellent NK and I *loved* the Bald case you put together. Now, I'd like to think town should have noticed that you didn't do a Burn case, but such is 20/20. I guess work on the overall fake case making to be equal and other than that revel in a very nice setup.

Maria13

- Burn was unkind replacing out when and how he did, you were lynched because of him, not because of you. I don't really have enough evidence to draw too much of a conclusion or advice about your play. I personally would have done the distancing differently than you did, but, heck, it seemed to work for you, so what do I know anyway? I also did appreciate how you chose to go down swinging and not just roll over - you were an exemplary replace in.

burn_209

- The big thing for you to watch, I believe, is your hypocrisy. That's really what gelled me onto you as scum, you said things that it did not appear you could actually believe. One of my core advices for scum is to never make up scumtells - just use tells you would honestly use in any other game. most tells are kinda gakky anyway and it's all really about the moment, so never stretch to get into a 'strategic' position. It usually doesn't pay off.

1baldeagle1

- I'm very conflicted on you, because I *loved* your play during the early half of the game,a nd then totally *loathed* it later, and functionally my loathing was what put you into the Zipper/Bald question, because up till then if I'd died it would have been a Zipper lynch and huzzah, and instead I left a bunch of newbie town to sort through you. First off, you should have tried to be more active in both your defense and in explaining why Truffles was scum. Scum win when town stop fighting, and your lack of presence (amongst many other town players) was not optimal. Second off, the one that really frustrates me, was your attack on me for my meta-defense...when I had been meta-attacked. I feel like you had read somewhere "meta-defense = teh scumz!" and then just applied that as a solid truth and then also applied it blindly, both of those being incorrect thoughts. If I am attacked for my meta I have literally only two options - to ignore it or to meta-defend. I have no idea why you decided that town would only ignore it...nor do I understand how, when I pointed this out, why you refused to discuss your conclusions of why you had decided that. That is why I started to peg you as scum, because it didn't seem like you cared what my alignment was, and that's a pretty big scumtell and what flipped me on your slot. You should be able to discuss and consider your own cases - take a look at kytox (if I remember right) who made that meta attack and then eventually decided he was wrong and I was right. He didn't decide I was town, but he did decide his reason for suspecting me was bad and changed tacks. That's a healthy town response, blindly biting down due to...whatever made you bite down (I presume it was a desire to be proven "right" but it could have been a number of things, I dunno which) was not a healthy way to make sure your case had any merit at all. I do overall like your posting style, and like I said for the first chunk of the game I thought you were playing nicely pro-town, so you do have a solid base, but the bearing down in the face of reality thing is dangerous, I should know, I still battle that habit, but it's not pro-town, so be aware that it's in you.

Bulbazak

- Dude, you were like a breath of fresh air to this game, a player who was fairly obv. town and also saw how bad the stuff on me was and also how right I was in what I was saying. You probably should have been more active (story of this game for the town players) but otherwise were solid. You were thought of as town, you had good scumspects, and you were NKed because you were a threat - that's how you want to play

Sakura Hana

- For the record, I think this is yet another game I read you right and you read me wrong Ah, overall I thought your play was...acceptable. You and I already discussed the hammer thing, and outside of that I thought you played fine and rather disagreed with the wagon on you. I think people voted you for silly reasons in their own heads rather than decent scumtells. I'll agree I think you were also out in looneyfield with your cases and reasoning, but you hardly stand alone in this town for that. I wished you'd lasted a bit longer because I would have been bemused to get to play with you while I had a town read, and also it might have avoided your 'Thor iz scumz!' case that the scum were ably to awkwardly sheep while it had no basis in reality while the rest of town sort of nodded, which was annoying to me to no end But, overall, a decent performance, I know you can play better than this and hope you are able to tap that more often, but a lot of what went bad for you here was other people having iffy reads, not anything you actually did that was scummy. Just, y'know, don't self-hammer as town.


========================================

And those are my thoughts.

If you have any questions about them, or questions about the game, or want to know why I did or thought something, or want my opinion of something specific you did, or want me to expand on anything, or have any other mafia (or sexy beard) releated questions for me - feel free to ask. I'm still your IC and have been informed that I'm supposed to be helpful

For all of you who had this as a first outing I hope you learned a bit more and are interested in trying again. This is an excellent game, and there are many levels to it you haven't even begun to plumb.

[notscience]

More importantly, what was I "stalling" for?
Because I was asking people to even describe the case on me.

Can you describe their cases on me, even at this stage?
If you can I'll agree I was stalling.
If you can't then I would suggest I was raising a *highly legitimate* point about how bad my wagon was.

Also, you'll look super sketch in your reasoning if you can't.

-----------------------------------------------
I took some time to reflect on this game tonight (I kinda spent like 2 and a half hours listening to my clock tick in pitch black), and I realized I really had no clue what their cases were. Frankly, I was intimidated by the questions I was given (along with a tad bit of laziness), as well as trusted my initial reads (I moved zipper out after the BP soft), Somewhere in there, I somehow thought "well the investigative pr already flipped sooooo" along with remembering a past instance when I played against Syryana and he hammered the town JK similarly to this (while I WK'd the whole time).

To be frank, I read the above paragraph to myself and it sounds like a bunch of excuses. To me, I'm thinking it culminated in the perfect storm and I just kinda went with it. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't, but we all know how hindsight is.

My apologies, again