Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Daiyousei]

sorry but you need 200+ posts to be a cool kid now

i did it!!!!!!!

[Daiyousei]

wanna kill Dai?

yes

[Daiyousei]

if people do end up taking interest in trying to math the game out then i should probably publicly say that i am going to spend the rest of the game actively trying to be an extra nightkill, because this is a thing i can do and it will take me off the final day mislim track i'm starting to suspect i've been put on

[Daiyousei]

Pedit I really don't think you should be the lim here

i agree!

but i am not and never will be in the town block poe so i'd rather yeet myself sooner than later so mafia's endgame path is that much harder for not having me around to mislim

[Daiyousei]

that being said, if the numbers shift back to odds, i will obviously change course from this plan

[Daiyousei]

You can even have the cat in the breakup after all.

excuse you, orin is not yours to give away

[Daiyousei]

Really hoping day two doesn't end up in a content drought the way D1 had in the middle.

easiest way to avoid that is to eliminate sanae and move on to night 2

fairy wisdom never fails

[Daiyousei]

if you, as town, elevate yourself out of the PoE through sheer chutzpah

i do not see a game state where this happens tbh

[Daiyousei]

for what it's worth i would have enjoyed that joke

[Daiyousei]

truly the only way that wait could have ended

[Daiyousei]

truly the only way that wait could have ended

Well if I didn't have an epiphany on Kaguya being town it would have ended with a wall of text casing her.

yeah but that wouldn't have been nearly as good a punchline

[Daiyousei]

hi i had an epiphany and realized it would be silly to try to get myself offed after a mafia sanae flip so scratch that plan rofl

Maybe Daiyousei is a good someone to think with. Daiyousei, who do you think is scum if we assume that Sanae is town?

my brain has admittedly stagnated but most likely yuuka for the reasons i outlined in my day-opening post

i don't recall seeing anything from yuuka today that has made me change my mind on that slot

[Daiyousei]

...Would Yukari/FF even design a game that could allow for 3 deaths in one night phase?

i could have died last night without preventing either of the actual deaths

so yes, apparently

[Daiyousei]

that or the selfstump claim is fake

[Daiyousei]

Wait dai are you claiming hider?

*extremely mikuru asahina voice* that's classified!

[Daiyousei]

And on Day 3, she rose from the dead! Happy Easter Daiyousundei, everyone!

[Daiyousei]

VOTE: Kaguya Houraisan

That was awfully rude of you to try to get me killed by telling me that Piece wanted me to target her, you know. I

did

fail to mention that I might have a continue or three up my sleeve, though. Just another little fairy prank!

I'm gonna sleep on the possibility of Yuuka being a PGO

You should already know this isn't true from when I visited Yuuka Day 1 and came back alive!

[Daiyousei]

So, I have a night action where I can target someone, and anything that targets me gets redirected to them, but I dai if they dai.

Kaguya told me in our hood last night that she was suddenly also in a hood with Piece and asked if I wanted anything relayed; I claimed this ability and asked her to ask Piece if I should try to get myself killed with it, and she said that Piece asked me to target Piece, saying that it was complicated. This was never elaborated upon. Looking at Piece's flip, I cannot fathom what Piece might have been going for here, so unless Aya has light to shed on this, I can only assume Kaguya was aware that Piece could not commute and made up Piece's request so that she could get two kills for the price of one.

[Daiyousei]

Bluh, the explanations seem reasonable at a surface-level glance, but I'm not in a position to consider them deeply and won't be for a while.

I'm also annoyed that Kaguya is pursuing Yuuka specifically, because Yuuka would have been my pursuit to open the day had things not played differently. Here's a thing I dropped in the hood near the end of the night, just to get it out there for people to mull over (assuming anyone actually thinks about my posts for longer than it takes to read them).

---

Looking at Larva's iso, I can see Yuuka being a partner. There's a fairly clear read progression from 40 to 295/296 to 308 to 388, but the jump from 388 to 1014 makes no sense with how extremely little Larva had to say about Yuuka in the interim. Where was the in-depth evaluation of that read? After that, there's very little posting at Yuuka, and the closest we get to an opinion is 1684, which looks hunt-y on the surface but then just never resolves.

Yuuka does not make much of an effort to meaningfully interact with Larva (2431 call and 2433/2434 response is so weak as to be easily judged as theater), and going back through her iso, I still don't know what her reason for voting for Ichirin was, nor do I know why she was so enthused about it by the end of the day.

This is basically all of the rereading I've had time to do, but this is plenty enough for me to feel justified in a Yuuka vote.

---

I'm not entirely opposed to a Reisen extermination in a vacuum, but even setting Kaguya aside I wouldn't choose her over Yuuka. Bluh. Bluh bluh bluh.

Hopefully I'll be able to think better later tonight/tomorrow.

[Daiyousei]

*had things played out differently

I have no idea where that "not" came from.

[Daiyousei]

Finally back home but exhausted, brain meat usage not now.

After a quick glance over the hood, I wouldn't object to just straight-up quoting the entire thing verbatim, honestly.

Including all the shit-talking! Ooh spicy spicy~

@Dai, were you reading the thread? and if you did is there a reason you got out of the pool before Kaguya shared their solve?

Continues have time limits! Have you never been to an arcade before?

[Daiyousei]

(Ironically, Touhou continues do

not

actually have time limits, but I wanted to make the joke anyway, because mine did. Had the time limit been met, or had I actively chosen to not continue, I would have died and flipped.)

[Daiyousei]

FWIW when Kaguya claimed in our hood and described the Piece Plan, I assumed she'd be protecting Piece. Koishi's melodrama (term of endearment) throughout Day 2 was, to me, way too obviously baiting the Mafia NK attempt.

In retrospect, I probably should have said something about this before right this moment.

[Daiyousei]

Finally back home but exhausted, brain meat usage not now.

After a quick glance over the hood, I wouldn't object to just straight-up quoting the entire thing verbatim, honestly.

Including all the shit-talking! Ooh spicy spicy~

@Dai, were you reading the thread? and if you did is there a reason you got out of the pool before Kaguya shared their solve?

Continues have time limits! Have you never been to an arcade before?

What do you mean by this?

My night action is such that I die ("dai") if my target dies.

My target died.

This means I died.

However, I was given the option to revive ("continue") at a price, if I wished.

This option had a time limit; if enough time passed before I made the choice, I would have died and flipped.

I paid the required price and revived.

(I could have actively chosen to not revive, which would have had the same result as letting the timer run out, but faster.)

[Daiyousei]

However, I was given the option to revive ("continue") at a price, if I wished.

This option had a time limit; if enough time passed before I made the choice, I would have died and flipped.

I paid the required price and revived.

Read my posts, please.

[Daiyousei]

So basically you're saying that the reason you did not wait a little longer for them to finally get out their solve is because your time limit was almost up. but you would have if you could have.

It was a combination of the time limit running out and Kaguya's first sentence in 4353. I had intentionally delayed my decision because I wanted to see how Kaguya would act (and also how the game in general would act). Kaguya's claims about an incoming solve had literally nothing to do with it, especially since I assumed it'd be lies due to coming from Mafia when making the decision.

[Daiyousei]

However, I was given the option to revive ("continue") at a price, if I wished.

This option had a time limit; if enough time passed before I made the choice, I would have died and flipped.

I paid the required price and revived.

Read my posts, please.

...Why aren't you death tunneling Kaguya again?

Bluh, (Kaguya's) explanations seem reasonable at a surface-level glance, but I'm not in a position to consider them deeply and won't be for a while.

Finally back home but exhausted, brain meat usage not now.

[Daiyousei]

It's not a surface glance.
They very likely did a closed loop murder.
It has its own name and everything.

You may note I have not actually unvoted Kaguya yet! (Or maybe you may not note it, given you appear to think I'm voting for you.) But I want to go over the explanations and consider how likely I think they are given the likelihood or unlikelihood of other possibilities, and I want to do that with my own properly-functioning brain, not because anyone else in the game thread told me I'm right and it's fine if I go full speed ahead.

[Daiyousei]

It's not a surface glance.
They very likely did a closed loop murder.
It has its own name and everything.

You may note I have not actually unvoted Kaguya yet! (Or maybe you may not note it, given you appear to think I'm voting for you.) But I want to go over the explanations and consider how likely I think they are given the likelihood or unlikelihood of other possibilities, and I want to do that with my own properly-functioning brain, not because anyone else in the game thread told me I'm right and it's fine if I go full speed ahead.

(Clarification that "my own properly-functioning brain" refers to my brain not fully functioning properly at the moment, not to anyone else's brain state)

[Daiyousei]

UNVOTE: Kaguya Houraisan

I've caught up and don't like this anymore. I can tell my strongest argument for it at this point is that I want it to be true really badly.

Daiyousei -

Daiyousei

• [Spellcard] Come back to life after dying
  
• [Spellcard] Unknown
  
• [Active/Night] Redirect all actions targeting her to her target, if her target dies she dies
  
• [Active/Day] Unknown, used it to check Yuuka/Aya/Reisen/Koishi d1
  
• Misty Lake Resident [Passive] In a Hood with Kaguya Houraisan

Since the details of what's passive and active and spellcards are important, I'll rearrange this a bit:

Daiyousei -

Daiyousei

• [Spellcard] Unknown, used it to check
  Yuuka/Reisen/Koishi
  d1 [Fairy Ed. Note: Despite mentioning her in listing the various obfuscation claims, I never actually checked Aya, because her claim was not something I could check)
  
• [Spellcard] Unknown
  
• [Active/Night] Redirect all actions targeting her to her target, if her target dies she dies
  
• [Passive] Come back to life after dying
  
• Misty Lake Resident [Passive] In a Hood with Kaguya Houraisan

Despite bed calling me over an hour ago, I'll do a Misty Lake summary next.

[Daiyousei]

Dai, please come solve with us, I KNOW there's a player in there who really wants to dig into this game and be heard by the herd, I saw it on day one well now's your chance.

While I gather up the hood, I invite you to mull over the middle section of 4297, as a starting point if nothing else.

[Daiyousei]

Hood summary!

Spoiler: Pregame

• I make the same Kaguya Is Star Sapphire joke I made in public upon game open, Kaguya makes a comment implying they might not be Kaguya, I (being an idiot) don't realize the significance of this until Day 1 begins and the whole thing about accounts not necessarily matching roles comes out

Spoiler: Day 1

• Kaguya floats some Piece suspicion justification
  
• I ask Kaguya about her Kagerou vote, she mentions there isn't much to it, only that it feels right, I sympathize
  
• Brief chat about publicly acting like the hood doesn't exist until it's prudent to do so
  
• I drop a quick-and-dirty reads list
  
• I claim intent to check Yuuka's claim about what happens when people visit her; I then report that my check matches Yuuka's claim while Kaguya malds about not having a cool day ability
  
• Brief chat going back to talking about the hood being okay if I'm close to extermination
  
• I claim intent to check Koishi's claim about what happens when people target her with Day stuff, and after needing to check something else first, I report that my check matches what one would expect from Koishi's claim
  
• Brief chat about who else has obfuscation (Reisen and Aya)
  
• I express distrust of 1538 for reasons I make public in 1548
  
• I give Kaguya a heart attack by whining that I have time to post for once but the thread is locked
  
• Brief chat about a couple of Aya posts in relation to things the mod has told the game thread to stfu about
  
• I emote confusedly over "i really can't get my head into what your case is about and i think i'll just stop trying to" in 1674 followed by "This is absolutely not what the case is about" in 1698 (I did not bring this up publicly at the time because I felt it was Ichirin's point to make - and then Ichirin never made it, so, uh, oops)
  
• I shitpost a bunch because I'm a fairy and none of you can stop me. UNLIMITED CONTINUES @_@
  
• I claim intent to check Reisen's ascetic claim and then report that my check matches what one would expect from that claim
  
• Extended chat (for us) about the Kagerou case
  
• Brief chat about Kaguya possibly switching to Ichirin after the Sanae train picked up steam

Spoiler: Night 1

• Nothing meaningful; my Day 2 opener was written and archived privately, and while I had originally intended to drop it in the hood a couple of hours before Day 2 began, I got busy at work and forgot

Spoiler: Day 2

• Extended chat (for us) about the possibility of a Piece fake claim coming; Kaguya's kickoff post about it quoted 3267 specifically, for whatever that's worth
  
• Brief chat about 3635 possibly being a slip
  
• Chat about grilling Sanae about what she thought was the Mafia play at the end of Day 1

Spoiler: Night 2

• Kaguya claims Piece hood, full claims (4260), requests coordination on hider plans if that's what I am, and asks if I want anything relayed to Clown; this is the first night 2 post in the hood and comes only a few hours after Sanae's flip
  
• I clarify I'm not a hider, claim what my night action is (the redirect thing that's been discussed publicly, including the "I dai if they dai" pun), and ask Kaguya to ask Piece if it's worth my time trying to use this night action to try to get killed
  
• I also ask Kaguya to tell Piece about all the Day 1 checks I did
  
• Crickets chirp for ~24 hours
  
• Kaguya confirms the Day 1 check info has been relayed and tells me Piece asked me to target Piece (see 4259)
  
• Kaguya also asks me to delay posting in case I need to fakeclaim (no elaboration)
  
• I mention that I suck at fakeclaiming but am willing to try
  
• Kaguya says I'll be claiming a Clown card and the delay is only to allow for time to get the necessary information relayed to me
  
• I affirm willingness
  
• Crickets chirp for ~12 hours
  
• I make confused note of "The elimination was not changed" in 4148, having only just noticed it a few hours before daybreak
  
• I write up the middle portion of 4297 - that post literally just copy-pasted what I wrote in the hood

Spoiler: Day 3

• Kaguya isn't allowed to chat until the end of Night 3! Sadness and heartache. I assume this is a direct result of the passive disable.

And that's all you all get for tonight! Holy shit is tomorrow gonna suck at work.

Kaguya, if there's anything I left out that you want included (or anything you disagree with and want clarified), give me a hood post number and I'll look at it. I'm pretty sure this is everything of significance, though.

[Daiyousei]

Kaguya, if there's anything I left out that you want included (or anything you disagree with and want clarified), give me a hood post number and I'll look at it. I'm pretty sure this is everything of significance, though.

64/65/66 should probably be included

Sure. Four outsider context, these posts are part of "Extended chat (for us) about the possibility of a Piece fake claim coming" from Day 2, and come shortly after Kaguya's flavor questioning in 3434 and 3452.

64: I theorize that Piece's true identity might be Kasen Ibaraki
65: Kaguya mentions there are "three other people" Piece's true identity could be and that Kasen is only the second-most likely
66: Kaguya drops a cloutchasing guess using a reference I won't repeat here (since Kaguya didn't) as a character guess. Given I do not watch the M-1 Grand Prix videos because I don't have the attention span for (or any interest in) them, the reference goes right over my head. That Kaguya is now asking me to pay close attention to the subtitles in a ten-minute video in a language I do not speak makes me want to put my vote back on her. Truly, this is the most Mafia-aligned thing anyone has done all game. I will follow up on this once I'm able to finally get through said video.

[Daiyousei]

Granted!

A shame we were both wrong in the end. Such is playing Mafia, I suppose.

[Daiyousei]

With caveats that everyone below the hyphens may shuffle around on a proper reread:

{Aya, Koishi}
{Kaguya}
---
{Marisa}
{Kagerou}
{Reisen}
{Yuuka}

[Daiyousei]

oh yeah no, i disable actives

actually i had my passive disabled last day, that was the thing that i didn't wanna claim since like, it's not like it was changing anything and it could actually mess scum up a bit

Was it disabled for the day only or also for the night?

until the end of night 2

Hi Okay so I have some info to reveal. Namely that I am indeed the passive disabler but I targeted Daiyousei night 1, not Kagerou.

Meaning that I was redirected.

Distracted reading from work, but wanted to pop in to verify that Kagerou was indeed my Night 1 target. I thought there was a realistic possibility they'd shoot me and I wanted to turn it back on them if so.

[Daiyousei]

oh yeah no, i disable actives

actually i had my passive disabled last day, that was the thing that i didn't wanna claim since like, it's not like it was changing anything and it could actually mess scum up a bit

Was it disabled for the day only or also for the night?

until the end of night 2

Hi Okay so I have some info to reveal. Namely that I am indeed the passive disabler but I targeted Daiyousei night 1, not Kagerou.

Meaning that I was redirected.

Distracted reading from work, but wanted to pop in to verify that Kagerou was indeed my Night 1 target. I thought there was a realistic possibility they'd shoot me and I wanted to turn it back on them if so.

D:

rude

also i guess WIFOM is WIFOM but this kinda confirms us as not S/S since it's not like my vig shot was able to be redirected

get pranked lol

[Daiyousei]

Now I kinda really wanna lim Marisa here just off the claim, someone talk me out of it

I've been mum on my Night 1 target up until now, so honestly the claim that she targeted me with the passive disable comes across as townie to me. It fits her opinion of me at that point in the game, and I'm not sure what Mafia would have to gain from disabling my (unclaimed, also breadcrumbed for True Touhou Knowers to be something else) passive as opposed to that of a townier player.

[Daiyousei]

oh yeah no, i disable actives

actually i had my passive disabled last day, that was the thing that i didn't wanna claim since like, it's not like it was changing anything and it could actually mess scum up a bit

Was it disabled for the day only or also for the night?

until the end of night 2

Hi Okay so I have some info to reveal. Namely that I am indeed the passive disabler but I targeted Daiyousei night 1, not Kagerou.

Meaning that I was redirected.

Distracted reading from work, but wanted to pop in to verify that Kagerou was indeed my Night 1 target. I thought there was a realistic possibility they'd shoot me and I wanted to turn it back on them if so.

Were you scum reading the wolf D1? It was noisy so if I missed it can you refresh me?

Mafia-read them so hard they were the first to get me to break character! Truly, no one reads my posts. ;_; If you want more links than think I can get them for you (there's certainly no shortage of them) but it'll need to wait until I'm off the clock.

[Daiyousei]

oh yeah no, i disable actives

actually i had my passive disabled last day, that was the thing that i didn't wanna claim since like, it's not like it was changing anything and it could actually mess scum up a bit

Was it disabled for the day only or also for the night?

until the end of night 2

Hi Okay so I have some info to reveal. Namely that I am indeed the passive disabler but I targeted Daiyousei night 1, not Kagerou.

Meaning that I was redirected.

Distracted reading from work, but wanted to pop in to verify that Kagerou was indeed my Night 1 target. I thought there was a realistic possibility they'd shoot me and I wanted to turn it back on them if so.

Were you scum reading the wolf D1? It was noisy so if I missed it can you refresh me?

Mafia-read them so hard they were the first to get me to break character! Truly, no one reads my posts. ;_; If you want more links than think I can get them for you (there's certainly no shortage of them) but it'll need to wait until I'm off the clock.

*"than think" -> "then"

Writing is hard for fairies!

[Daiyousei]

oh yeah no, i disable actives

actually i had my passive disabled last day, that was the thing that i didn't wanna claim since like, it's not like it was changing anything and it could actually mess scum up a bit

Was it disabled for the day only or also for the night?

until the end of night 2

Hi Okay so I have some info to reveal. Namely that I am indeed the passive disabler but I targeted Daiyousei night 1, not Kagerou.

Meaning that I was redirected.

Distracted reading from work, but wanted to pop in to verify that Kagerou was indeed my Night 1 target. I thought there was a realistic possibility they'd shoot me and I wanted to turn it back on them if so.

Were you scum reading the wolf D1? It was noisy so if I missed it can you refresh me?

Mafia-read them so hard they were the first to get me to break character! Truly, no one reads my posts. ;_; If you want more links than think I can get them for you (there's certainly no shortage of them) but it'll need to wait until I'm off the clock.

Where is the :V

not weeb enough for this fairy ^_^

[Daiyousei]

In dwelling on it some more, I don't see Mafia Marisa claiming to have targeted me with the Night 1 passive disable, because if it's a lie it's an extremely risky one and if it's the truth then it was an extremely-questionable-at-best decision given the Night 1 game state.

I also don't see Mafia Kaguya kicking up this much of a fuss about Marisa over role PM structure details when she already has a stated solve of Yuuka/Kagerou from earlier today, because it would have cost her absolutely nothing to just chalk Marisa's claim up to weirdness, give up on pursuing her, and fall back on that.

So I suppose I am tentatively plunking down a willingness to steamroll {Yuuka/Reisen/Kagerou} for the victory, with the understanding that not everyone will agree with my exclusion from this list.

[Daiyousei]

Dai who's passive do you think Mafrisa would disable over yours N1?

Assuming Mafia Marisa? Any of the people who were generally better-thought-of than me at the time or had made their role central to their play. Piece, Tenshi, Koishi, probably others.

[Daiyousei]

My issue here is as other players go up, I'm left staring at my Yuuka read wondering why it's still so town and if I'm just insane.

Dai, please come solve with us, I KNOW there's a player in there who really wants to dig into this game and be heard by the herd, I saw it on day one well now's your chance.

While I gather up the hood, I invite you to mull over the middle section of 4297, as a starting point if nothing else.

[Daiyousei]

we are so fae-ing back

[Daiyousei]

I'm not sure how much stock I put into flavor spec given I exist at all.

Non-Touhou-knowers are invited to look up my character to see what I'm talking about.

[Daiyousei]

If Lost Word were relevant, I would have a 16-ton weight vig shot.

[Daiyousei]

If Lost Word were relevant, I would have a 16-ton weight vig shot.

Yukarin, why didn't you give Dai a 16 ton anvil?

Gensokyo's greatest sage is, correctly, afraid of the unknown that is Gensokyo's greatest fairy.

[Daiyousei]

Yes, I think there’s a chance they’re both town.

See, even Yuuka agrees with your Yuuka/Kagerou solve, Kaguya.

[Daiyousei]

Walk me through why Kagerou+Kaguya can’t be a team.

I hate team hunting. It never works out for me.

Assuming that question is directed at me, the quick and dirty answer is that I don't see Mafia Kaguya per 4750. (For what it's worth, I'd been reading her as town up to today anyway due to the nature of the hood banter.)

[Daiyousei]

Not but really, is this day just coming down to a 1v1 of Marisa v Kaguya?

Lord I hope not.

VOTE: Reisen Udongein Inaba

[Daiyousei]

If we could Not Have This Conversation, that'd be much apprecaited.

[Daiyousei]

If we could Not Have This Conversation, that'd be much apprecaited.

Wait which one?

The relationship age one, which already feels like it's going in a gross direction.

[Daiyousei]

Not but really, is this day just coming down to a 1v1 of Marisa v Kaguya?

Lord I hope not.

VOTE: Reisen Udongein Inaba

I might sheep you if Kaguya can do one (1) towny thing this day that doesn't have to do with mech.

Unfortunately, I feel like Kaguya continuing to pursue you is town-indicative, because there were much easier plans for Mafia Kaguya to pursue today (I should add here that I don't think there's a realistic chance you get exterminated today no matter how hard Kaguya tries), but you clearly don't agree with that sentiment.

[Daiyousei]

Dai what do you think about Marisa claiming to be Flandre

I don't think anything game-relevant about it, honestly, aside from a mild flavor amusement that Christmas Tree Wings wasn't enough to get the passive Kagerou got. I believe it as much as I believe anything anyone else says about their role. Non-game-relevant thoughts have already been posted to my Notes PT.

[Daiyousei]

(I should add here that I don't think there's a realistic chance you get exterminated today no matter how hard Kaguya tries)

What if I use stolen lunarian mind control tech?

I'm assuming it short-circuited after you reflexively dragged it underwater with you.

[Daiyousei]

Daiyousei is leaving it ambiguous whether they’re a lame duck or not. I think their play has been fairly original and while I might expect Gif to be this attention grabbing and gambity/schemey they’re the mod so I tend to just think “they’re too crazy to be scum”

Their read of me is really bad for the end game though. Like, I’m not sure they’re the type I can convince. I also think strictly speaking there’s nothing to indicate that they’re dead or that they revived or that they paid a penalty or what that penalty is.

They’ve dodged me asking about it.
Which is a major sign that they may be a non issue but they aren’t giving out like a major reads list: peace everyone. List either. Which makes me wonder if they are sticking around and then it becomes are they really sticking around?

- Apologies for not responding to the lame duck query previously. I have to admit I don't actually know what you mean when you ask it, though. It doesn't appear to be a term on the Wiki?

- If you're looking to convince me away from you, that ship has probably sailed in terms of content already on the table, admittedly. Responding to my paragraph about you in 3176 - which, I will point out, was my Day

2

opener - is as good a spot as any to start, though. I should probably also tell you that I do not trust anyone that emphatically tries to towncase themselves based entirely on in-thread play.

- My most recent reads list can be found in 4548. It gets narrowed down further in 4750.

Speaking of!

Pick a wagon and pray time.

<48H left

Will vote any of Yuuka, Reisen, or Kagerou (in that preference order; vote's on Reisen ahead of Yuuka purely because the push there is harder at the moment). Barring some earth-shattering revelation, I will not vote Marisa or Kaguya today.

[Daiyousei]

A lame duck is a political term. It pretty much means that you aren’t capable of exerting much if any influence on the game. Due to circumstances. Such as that the penalty makes it so you can’t vote, or you’re going to go back into the grave after the day ends.

Oh! No, as far as I'm aware, I exist in full and proper in-thread force going forward.

[Daiyousei]

That being said, an argument certainly could be made that I am not capable of exerting much if any influence on the game, it just wouldn't have anything to do with my revival. Being faeguca is suffering. ;_;

[Daiyousei]

Well, if you're going to get that hung up on it, the price was sacrificing a spell card.

[Daiyousei]

I don't entirely disagree, but on a functional level, it was the cost of being able to return, and I wanted to be honest about the mechanics.

[Daiyousei]

That doesn’t feel honest. Was it even described as a penalty?

You'll forgive me for not answering a question that sounds like the only way to meaningfully answer is to quote my role PM.

Was it just because the other spell card you could have used would have been beneficial toward finding scum? What was the point of even hiding it if you can no longer use the spell card at all.

There's a fair amount I don't want to talk about in response to this until/unless I find myself in 3-way ELO for paranoia-level infosec reasons. It's not you specifically, it's general excessive caution. But I will at least say I didn't go into detail about this until now because I didn't feel like publicizing it when there was no tangible benefit to doing so, while I could let Mafia stew on the mystery for a while by keeping quiet about it instead.

[Daiyousei]

Also, I'm now over an hour late for bed, so unfortunately I have to dip here.

[Daiyousei]

they claimed had a penalty?

Where did this happen? I have only ever used the words "price" and "cost". (Yes, there is a difference.)

Also, to be clear, "sacrifice a spell card" means "sacrifice an

unused

spell card".

[Daiyousei]

Given that line of thinking/questioning, I think I can see now where the hangup is, which means I can answer 5021 slightly better. I was not told I would be inflicted with a penalty for reviving, no. Thinking about it in RPG terms, the price of reviving is like discarding a limited item rather than like taking on a passive debuff.

[Daiyousei]

Then again you could just lie about a different penalty tomorrow.

If I die and revive again, the price for doing so will have been sacrificing an unused spell card and not anything else. You may hold me to this declaration for the rest of the game.

[Daiyousei]

Daiyousei, what made you unvote Kaguya?

Her response to my return and vote for her read as a reasonable approach to take.

Dai, did you crumb any parts of your abilities early?

I made a post that was intended to be a very subtle crumb at a role that would make me an appealing NK target in the hopes I would draw it and repurpose it as a vig shot. Other than that, no, unless you count me outright stating intent to actively try to get myself killed.

Then the conversation becomes “what’s your case on dai?”

I don’t have one, I just like them less than the people I think are town (in game).

Don't let this stop you! No one asked me what my case on you was when I voted for you.

[Daiyousei]

Dai while you're here

Also can someone walk me through why Marisa is townie cause I'm feeling like we're back in day1landia where Marisa was getting townread for charisma over actually doing townie things

Unfortunately, I'd want Marisa to answer 5031 before I address this (because I don't want to give her ideas for responses), and I'm heading out the door within the next five minutes.

[Daiyousei]

You read REALLY fast for a wolf girl.

Kagerou is canonically a Mafia expert.

[Daiyousei]

(If there are serious matters waiting for my response they will have to wait until I am in a position to do more than shitpost)

[Daiyousei]

Clown left us reads in 4080. Clown still scumreads Dai but says that overall Dai is still scum.

Daiyousei -

I actually liked Daiyousei's D2

. It's probably not enough in the long term but

I want to say these are villager made posts > wolf ones

?????

[Daiyousei]

Koishi, is there anything mechanically stopping me from targeting you with my action tonight, so that I can dai if/when you dai?

[Daiyousei]

...You can repeat this trick?

My redirection ability is a night action, yes. I used it Night 1 (as evidenced by Marisa disabling Kagerou instead of me), and I used it Night 2 (as evidenced by my going missing when Piece died). I can use it again Night 3 to try to get myself killed alongside you, assuming you are the NK.

[Daiyousei]

Clown left us reads in 4080. Clown still scumreads Dai but says that overall Dai is still scum.

Daiyousei -

I actually liked Daiyousei's D2

. It's probably not enough in the long term but

I want to say these are villager made posts > wolf ones

?????

Emphasis in wrong place. "Not enough in the long run" = scumread.

So your theory is that Mafia Dai chose to NK someone whose opinion on her improved from Day 1 to Day 2?

[Daiyousei]

Clown left us reads in 4080. Clown still scumreads Dai but says that overall Dai is still scum.

Daiyousei -

I actually liked Daiyousei's D2

. It's probably not enough in the long term but

I want to say these are villager made posts > wolf ones

?????

Emphasis in wrong place. "Not enough in the long run" = scumread.

So your theory is that Mafia Dai chose to NK someone whose opinion on her improved from Day 1 to Day 2?

Yes. It was still an SR and Yuuka was an SR too.

What are your reads?

Kaguya's Night 2 instructions to me to target Piece with my night action were preceded by a doctor claim. You are additionally proposing that Mafia Dai would attack Piece given Mafia Dai would have no reason to think Kaguya wasn't protecting her?

My reads, such as they are, are in 4750. I have not really had the motivation to carve time out of an action-packed week to sit down and extensively review them, as much as doing so would amount to rearranging an order preference. I will not have this time until Day 4, which, with any luck, I will not see anyway given the conversation I am currently having with Koishi.

[Daiyousei]

Zero brain at the moment. Probably net negative brain after trying to parse pages upon pages of mech talk while on mobile.

I intentionally delayed my revive as long as I reasonably could, to give maximum time to get people's opinions of my disappearance and also to give Kaguya time to claim the hood. I submitted my choice to revive right before going to bed at a time where the time limit would have passed when I woke up. The timing is nothing deeper than that. If you choose to not believe me, then that's your prerogative, but telling me you don't believe me is not going to change this explanation.

If we go the No Extermination route today, then I will hold off on trying to get myself killed, because MELO's at 6 and the Marisa 1v1 conundrum still applies. If there's an elimination I'm latching myself onto Koishi.

[Daiyousei]

Kaguya, did yuuka/dai’s timing on when dai came back to thread not bother you at all?

I’ve been mulling over it for awhile now.

What do you mean? Dai came back like 10 minutes before 24 hours after the flip passed and also claimed to be on a timer for sending in the revive command

Why does anyone of any any alignment NOT press the button I guess is my objection to this being clearing.

Because I'm very much in the mislim pool and not pressing the button saves town an elimination tempo. I don't care if I dai as long as town wins in the end.

[Daiyousei]

If we go the No Extermination route today, then I will hold off on trying to get myself killed, because MELO's at 6 and the Marisa 1v1 conundrum still applies. If there's an elimination I'm latching myself onto Koishi.

Quoting this as a reminder to everyone about my night plans, given I'm the only player that currently has more than one vote for them and there'3.5 hours to go in the day. Since there are tactical advantages to no extermination and the only vote current on a player I'd vote for is my own, I have pretty much zero motivation to try to change things. Plus there's a Pokemon GO Community Day today, which is infinitely more interesting than trying to navigate the mech labyrinth that has effectively destroyed most of the game's motivation.

...Writing that out loud makes me wonder if I shouldn't be taking a second look at the players responsible for it, actually. Not that it makes sense to try to do before today's deadline, even

if

I could dedicate all of that time to it.

[Daiyousei]

...which is infinitely more interesting than trying to navigate the mech labyrinth that has effectively destroyed most of the game's motivation.

...Writing that out loud makes me wonder if I shouldn't be taking a second look at the players responsible for it, actually...

Highlighting this because even Koishi has gone from "Do not go gently into No Elimination, do not let the Mafia in front of you escape, do not let me die before the next elimination" about Reisen to "Sure, whatever, No Elim away, see you all postgame". Granted, I can't tell how much of that is frustrated apathy and how much of that is health issues, but it's still a marked 180.

[Daiyousei]

Which, to be clear, is not commentary on Koishi's alignment, but on the possibility of a Reisen/Kaguya team.

[Daiyousei]

Also, in thinking about it, choosing the No Elim route and counting on the mech approach smells of repeating the mistakes of The Sanae Situation.

I don't suppose anyone would be interested in yeeting Reisen in the scant few hours we have left in the day? I suddenly have a bad feeling about this.

[Daiyousei]

You getting a sense of unwillingness to compromise is part of my concern. That you, of all players in this game, were made to feel that way suggests the current state is Mafia-driven.

[Daiyousei]

It feels to me like the slowdown is due to the domination of mechulation. Maybe I'm just projecting, though, because it has definitely discouraged me from trying to find time to post.

Regarding the game Day 4 game position, I imagine that we'll get some sort of note about how it is technically possible for the game to end with a Day 4 miselimination, because I can be a second Night 4 death.

[Daiyousei]

Good game, everyone! I enjoyed playing far more than one might expect of someone that spent roughly half the game actively trying to dai.

I'll yield my play in general was not all that great, but I'll at least take pride in doing whatever I needed to do to fall on a grenade Night 3 and force Mafia to take Aya to ELO.

Will there be any sort of revelation of the player list and/or which characters they requested in pre-game?

[Daiyousei]

I'm not sure how much stock I put into flavor spec given I exist at all.

Non-Touhou-knowers are invited to look up my character to see what I'm talking about.

Counterpoint: Touhou LostWord

Me when I learned you weren't actually Waka