Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[farside22]

You can vote for yourself?

Yes you can.

Vote: Hiraki

For requesting to be replaced

[farside22]

You can vote for yourself?

Of course. I saw a bandwagon forming, and what better way is there to get in on all the action than voting for the poor sucker being bandwagoned?

Funny, but I typically see people question the wagon. Is it normal for people to vote for you?

[farside22]

Unvote. Vote: farside22.

I'm not a fan of that random vote. Voting for a player being replaced isn't likely to cause any action.

My vote was semi serious with so far 2 out of 2 times I've seen a player replace out after receiving a role pm and requesting replacement and still active else where, flip scum.

Do you think the bw on Amy caused much reaction?

[farside22]

Unvote

and

Vote Mr Blonde

Something makes me think he is mafia.

Why did you change your vote so quickly without waiting for a reply?

Same premise here - wasted vote. How is this different than self voting?

Self voting is likely to provoke responses. Voting a player leaving the game is not.

I feel all rvs votes are under the same category.

Amy, I think "because he can" is his reasoning, but it also kind of strikes me as a bit arbitrary.

It's not really the reasoning that I'm confused about/picking at. It's more about the purpose (or lack thereof) of changing an RVS vote to another RVS vote. 'Because I can' can't be classified as reasoning, ever. To me it looks a bit like edging off the bandwagon in case something serious happens with it. The post with the Wiki info that was right above his probably got him to think twice about bandwagoning. If he wanted to change votes then he was welcome to get the game out of RVS.

This is a good catch.
When I saw it I thought more about someone trying to fit in and copy another players actions.

I would consider your action a provoked response. Wouldn't you? This doesn't say anything for Farside's motive, but it does devalue your statement somewhat.

Sure. I'm the kind of player who actively looks for these things. But in most games Farside's vote wouldn't get any notice. It's not so much about motive but rather a lack of motive. Voting for a missing player isn't going to progress the game the vast majority of the time.

Depends how the replacement reacts based on my experience for me.

Mr. Blond came across pretty non plus about it. I was a bit surprised he didn't react to it.

What is the point of voting for oneself? Avoiding voting someone else?

Vote: Astinus

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SnuggkyDuckling

There were three people who self-voted up to this point. Why point out Astinus?

This question is really a waste. Did you read the game? What was your view of astinus self vote after asking if it was okay? Does it really help or do anything to switch rvs to oneself?

[farside22]

Right.

Is your vote on Mr Blonde more serious now that he has spoken? He seems non-plus - what does that mean to you?

My vote stands for now

Any reason you didn't awnser my questions?


@mr. Blond: the difference between me and my spot and you and your spot is yours requested replaced. The mod said the person I replaced did not pick up the pm.

Role PMs have been sent out. Game will begin once 11/14 have confirmed via private message.

Update: I have only heard from 10 of you. Four of you haven't picked up your role PMs. If I don't get a response by tonight I will look for replacements.

Hiraki has requested replacement. Looking for 3 more replacements and then we will begin

[farside22]

@mr. Blond: the difference between me and my spot and you and your spot is yours requested replaced. The mod said the person I replaced did not pick up the pm.

That makes literally no difference. It could be something as simple as my previous slot holder actually had the courtesy to respond to the MOD to seek replacement versus the others. How would you know differently?

You are using intangible evidence and supposed experience as a way to push me for a generic tell that essentially I can't defend against. That's bad on your part.

One) as I stated previously I checked to see the player who replaced out was posting elsewhere. (2)It's early. I don't expect people to agree.
(3) mod said pm's not picked up. Did you check to see if players were still around?
I know for example ki hasn't been online since Friday.

Hold on a sec

[farside22]

Sorry knew about ki do to ongoing game but this is the post records of whom I replaced

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 6&sr=posts

The 19th was there last post so the mod statement has more value and I know my role is town too.

[farside22]

@mr. Blond: the difference between me and my spot and you and your spot is yours requested replaced. The mod said the person I replaced did not pick up the pm.

That makes literally no difference. It could be something as simple as my previous slot holder actually had the courtesy to respond to the MOD to seek replacement versus the others. How would you know differently?

You are using intangible evidence and supposed experience as a way to push me for a generic tell that essentially I can't defend against. That's bad on your part.

One) as I stated previously I checked to see the player who replaced out was posting elsewhere. (2)It's early. I don't expect people to agree.
(3) mod said pm's not picked up. Did you check to see if players were still around?
I know for example ki hasn't been online since Friday.

Hold on a sec

1) What does that have anything to do with me and THIS game thread?

2) I'm not sure how the stage of the game is relevant here. You have already passed judgement on my slot based on a generic tell without allowing time to actually analyze me first. That makes you either a) derptown or b) scum.

3) No - why would I? It has nothing to do with what's ITT.

Sorry knew about ki do to ongoing game but this is the post records of whom I replaced

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... 6&sr=posts

The 19th was there last post so the mod statement has more value and I know my role is town too.

You lost me on this one. Mod statement has more value than what?

1) then you are not reading my post.
2) reaction and something I've seen scum do is not generic or derp
3) again you didn't read my post.

Hey you asked about my comment and stated the possible of not picking up the pm and i showed how that was invalid.

[farside22]

I don't consider "did you read the game" to be the start of serious questioning when the question I asked immediately prior is dependent on me reading the game.
?

I asked more then that question.

Did you read the game? What was your view of astinus self vote after asking if it was okay? Does it really help or do anything to switch rvs to oneself?

Your question looks pointless when I'm reading the thread and see a reason other then calling out a player because of a self vote.

[farside22]

I have no clue where meta came into this conversation. Nor where I even expect mr. Blond to defend my comment.
This is pretty simple people. 2 games I was in a player asked for replacement and both times those players were scum.
For me this better then average experience. Does this mea 100% lmets lynch mr. Blond. No
Did I tell people this is something that needs to happen. No
I stated a fact I have experienced.

[farside22]

Finally have more then 5 minutes to do some reading.

I have no clue where meta came into this conversation. Nor where I even expect mr. Blond to defend my comment.
This is pretty simple people. 2 games I was in a player asked for replacement and both times those players were scum.
For me this better then average experience. Does this mea 100% lmets lynch mr. Blond. No
Did I tell people this is something that needs to happen. No
I stated a fact I have experienced.

Oh, well 2 is certainly a scientifically rigorous sample size. Can't argue with science!

I'd still rather lynch you because the faeries told me to.

Let me ask you, because this is specific and rare.
How many games do you see people request replacement pregame and still active on site?
The reason my number is small is it very rarely happens.
Either you have some newb that requested replacement for a game do to some reason or mass replacement request.
This is a rare only seen it happen twice and both where scum events.

Vote:farside22

Your way of claiming is scummy, rather or not someone replaced out is not a read on their role and to argue as such is ridiculous. Also, your case against Mr.Blonde has no real evidence against it and I do not understand why a wagon is building on him so early because of a post where he said "let's dance."

There is no wagon.
Also wonder if you read what I stated.
One thing I said was I don't expect people to agree.
So already I'm aware that the point doesn't hold much water.
Now why is this scummy to you?

[farside22]

UNVOTE:

Your question looks pointless when I'm reading the thread and see a reason other then calling out a player because of a self vote.

My question for a singular individual is pointless because you see reason other than to call out a player because of a self-vote (their reasoning their own vote)? This doesn't make sense. All it does is try and make me feel bad.

Amy

, what are your thoughts on farside?

Is there a reason you keep dodging my questions?
I gave my thoughts and I was looking for yours.

Unvote: TobyLoby

Belisarius's jump onto that wagon seemed scummy to me at first, but I also know that scum don't like to break silence like that. Adds up to a very slight scum read on him right now but other than that lynches should be going elsewhere today.

I think that the mini argument between Mr_Blonde and Farside was just silly, null read on both of them still.

Toby still peaks my town list, but again, these are all page four reads so take them with a truckload of salt.

Please explain the vote and now town read on Toby?


@mr. Blond: I'm working in my reads at this point.
At this point I didn't like bel or chaos. I feel both jumped to false conclusions based on my statement.
1 (bel) acts like I was pushing my case in a scummy way but I don't see where a null tell in his view = scum tell.
2 (chaos) does not explain what makes anything I said scummy and then lies about a supposed wagon.

I really feel like Toby is dodging questions he can't answer. I've asked 3 times for her to tell me her thoughts but continues to side step the question and I don't see why a simple question continues to be dodged repeatedly.
It's not even my first question I care about, which is obviously snarky it was the other two.

Again questions were

What was your view of astinus self vote after asking if it was okay? Does it really help or do anything to switch rvs to oneself?

Vote: Toby

[farside22]

VOTE: acryon

I'm going to disagree with some of Amy's thoughts on Acryon. Although he may be making original analysis, a lot of it is said when asked and a chunk of his posting has been quotes from the wiki or himself from another game. His rather quick response to Amy means he's following the thread but he's not actively contributing to it. We've also long past the RVS stage.

Wait I missed this.

How do you know his comments are from other games? Like exact words that he quoted?

[farside22]

Sorry for the multi posting. I phone post and I read, react, read more, react.

Toby: where you referencing post 66 from acryon?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6158372
This post?

[farside22]

Let me ask you, because this is specific and rare.

Rare? This game required

four

replacements pregame. In a mini. Wow, that's a lot of scum for a mini. Better lynch all of the pregame replacements. Let's start with you. If you flip town, I'll volunteer to go next.

So, here's my list of pre-game replacement list without [citation needed] tags:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4600081 - Blueberry requested replacement pregame. Replacement flipped town.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=29453 - Xdaamno replaced Moon; Replacement won with the town (NB: It's not explicitly stated that Moon requested replacement, but there was no large delay during confirmation/draft phase that would result from a player failing to pick up their role PM or communicate with the mod)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=31072 - Sakura Hana requested replacement pregame. Replacement was town, and delicious.

Conclusion: Similar sample size to yours, because yes, I'll concede it's rare. I, however, arrived at exactly the opposite result as you, which is why

miniscule sample sizes are not statistically relevant

.

I check 2 of these and I'm pretty sure based on what you showed me on those 2 alone you did not read the specific signs that are not normal
The one you missed with moon and blueberry is they were not active elsewhere.
Moon http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... mit=Search
Blackberry
http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... mit=Search

Why are you wasting my time showing that what I specified is wrong if you supply misleading info?

[farside22]

Bel since you snipped it, this is my question.

How many games do you see people request replacement pregame and still active on site?

[farside22]

@acyron: I figured she was but I was trying to understand why she focused on one part of the post and not the rest
I get the impression Toby is not reading things in full.

[farside22]

Why are you turning this into argumentum ad absurdum by changing the argument to involve all replacements, requested or not?

Because I'm not. Those links were two games where the mod specifically stated replacement was requested, and one where a pregame replacement occurred without sufficient delay to gamestart for it to be anything

but

a request.

"Active elsewhere" is not relevant; there is no cause and effect relationship between replace-out requests and activity elsewhere. What's next, are we going to limit the criteria to a specific moon phase, making it even more impossible to get a sufficient sample size to be meaningful? How about only looking at replacements who are dog owners?

While I don't necessarily think Beli is going about it the perfect way, I think he is at least tunneling in a good direction. Offering essentially useless input can be both scum trying to appear helpful or newb town trying to be helpful with bad input. Given that farside is far from a newbie, I'm definitely suspicious of her offering such a bad argument. You have to admit: especially for a very experienced player, that argument really sucked.

One bel is far from newb.
Two the tell I stated is specific to two times it happened to me and even said it's rare.
He looks to be trying to make it as though I was yelling charge, telling people this is scum and expecting people to follow that.
All of that is far from factual.
Finally, rvs stage and having semi serious reason vs let me bw or vote myself because of cool kids does not = suck reasoning.

[farside22]

I feel bel is trying to say I'm making stuff up, shows things based on nothing I stated and now is ramrodding a point that it's even around any more.
Like how many times do I have to say I didn't expect people to agree. Or that I did not say this is a strong scum tell.
I voted in rvs for semi serious reason to get reaction from the person who replaced hir and see how he responses.

[farside22]

Hello Farside,

What was your view of astinus self vote after asking if it was okay? Does it really help or do anything to switch rvs to oneself?

I made a response about Astinus in post 78. I don't know if we can take anything serious from their actions or read from it.

If you want an updated answer now that Astinus has posted again or that you don't care about my thoughts above but want an independent answer apart from my original thoughts, then my answers are:

1. I don't view it as anything telling by itself especially as it came up after another player doing it.
2. No.

@acyron: I figured she was but I was trying to understand why she focused on one part of the post and not the rest

I was in part responding to Amy's post 74 read of Acyron where I am addressing her read along with my own opinions. I start the second sentence of my vote on him in post 77 initially addressing the whole of his latest post and acknowledged that although he has made original analysis, it was only when he was asked and a good chunk of his contribution to the thread at the time was regurgitation of the wiki and a quote of himself in a past game (along with the stuff I already addressed), combined with my belief that he may be actively lurking.

Essentially, those things to me override any townie-ness that last post of his may have had.

If you don't like my reasoning, that's cool. You can debate it with me and tell me why you believe I am wrong. What I am not going to do is engage in some snark vs snark game with you.

Now then,

@Farside,

1. What of my posts are indicative of scum?
2. Maybe I missed it: What is your read on Mr_Blonde now?
3.

He looks to be trying to make it as though I was yelling charge, telling people this is scum and expecting people to follow that.

Can you quote where you believe he is doing this?

I don't see how post 78 explains or even attempts to explain your thought on my question to you. As all you did was ask questions about my comment.

What was the point if your question to astinus?

As for blond, he seemed like he was like wtf and then pfft and in short he took it in stride and moved on. I'm leaning town.

The reason you seem to not be really reading the thread is your pointing out bits and pieces of a full story. It reads like cherry picking points.


As for bel, he keeps harping on the same point repeatedly and I don't get why this is a scum tell or how he interrupted as scum a big ta do unless he thinks I made the whole thing up, which one post were he linked all those replacement games indicated to me trying to discredit me.


Phone currently dying will be back later.

[farside22]

Not that I generally feel the need to respond to this type of thing, but it seems a little disingenuous to call quoting the wiki to be helpful and give a newbie an accurate definition "regurgitating" it. Additionally, 59 was a real post. So at that time, I had one post helping a newbie, one post adding onto someone's argument, and a third post detailing my reads with a blurb regarding my playstyle during RVS. Trying to say a "good chunk" of my contribution was from what you said it was seems likes a hard sell.

You quoted. It doesn't matter why or for whom. How else would you define it? I suppose "quoting from the wiki" is the best way to put it. It is nothing more besides that. I'm looking at your posts on an ongoing contribution basis and that is what I see.

What was the point if your question to astinus?

I didn't ask a question to Astinus. I asked someone a question about Astinus and I think it is self-evident why.

Sorry, what was the point of your question to duckling?
I don't see what it was.

Duckling

I'm impressed because I felt this exact same way.

Unvote and Vote acryon

Why didn't you say something sooner? What is acryon scum motivation for doing it?

Now that you put it that way it seems pretty reasonable.

I admit I didn't really follow your argument up to this point; who are you saying this makes more likely to be scum? #toolazytorereaditall

Scum. How did you miss this?


@dryfit: do you agree with what Toby/duck feel about acryon?
If so why?

[farside22]

Well most of the game I was defending my statement.

Blond (who I may call Brian because of avatar) why is bel a town read? I can't see why he mentions and pushes this as a scum tell.

Noting to self.
I just read the last 2 post of this pages. Sleep. Mmmm

[farside22]

I have no idea what's going on.

UNVOTE:

I'll give this a try tomorrow.

I feel like this is a Towntell. I know I definitely felt this way just before my posts in this game. Would scum be less likely to say that they were confused? I dunno, I feel like Town are more open about how they are feeling.

Null. Seen both alignment say something similar but I always tend to keep an eye on the player to see if that tell moves.

Generally players that hand out reads for seemingly arbitrary reasons get the stink eye from me.

Fair enough but I rarely find reasons to suspect people other than arbitrary ones so prepare to give me a lot of stink eyes.

I hope this isn't the case. It isn't that hard to find at least semi-legitimate reasons to suspect players.

I don't like this response. It seems to indicate that it is OK to find arbitrary reasons to point to in order to justify a crap vote.

I generally like to see real reasons myself, it gives more to judge players by, both good and bad. If Duckling isn't going to provide reasons for his suspicions - ok - it will just make it harder for me to trust him.

He is saying he hopes it's not the case how is that equal okay?

I have no idea what's going on.

UNVOTE:

I'll give this a try tomorrow.

I feel like this is a Towntell

. I know I definitely felt this way just before my posts in this game. Would scum be less likely to say that they were confused? I dunno, I feel like Town are more open about how they are feeling.

I couldn't disagree more. I also find it odd that you'd consider this a Townie post.

I thought it was an odd read as well. By itself, I think Jogger's post is null, just a bit of frustration.

Skelda's post is scummy to me because I'm reading it as "hey, this is a townie, I know because I felt the same way". In other words, I'm reading this as trying to get town to subconsciously think Skelda is townie without having to outright state "Hey everybody, I'm town, please move along elsewhere".

Frustrated?
Okay.....

[farside22]

And who's scum-reading me, and for what reason?

Your not exactly ring town.
My notes are derp and then lurk. Not giving reads and new.
Waiting for input for reads to move from null.

I need to recheck a few players.

[farside22]

I think we've had enough discussion about personal views on general tells.

Who in this game actually did anything scummy up until this point?

Do you have an oppinion on that? So far I saw AFF talk about bel and chaos.
She is the one that stands out the most as trying to figure things out.
I have null and leaning town reads and even stated those I was most suspicious of. I'dlike to read from others there views....like you.

[farside22]

What about the number of votes on him makes you not want to vote?

Well two things.

One is that I instinctively try to avoid wagons with large numbers of people on them early in the game since at that point it really isn't adding much more pressure. The first few votes have large amounts of pressure, but as people keep voting the significance of each individual vote goes down.

And secondly, large D1 wagons are often scum-driven and that often makes me townread the person being wagoned. So it makes me actually doubt that he is scum because of how easily votes are coming in. My scumread would be stronger if there wasn't a wagon on him.

The problem with this is chaos has said anything since the wagon started.
My mind thinks more of the person not giving reads who is being wagoned.
Is he lurking hoping pressure will get off or is he busy?

Going to check into that.

[farside22]

So looking chaos hadn't been active at all.

[farside22]

This game has reached a sluggish moment.
I'm a bit busy this morning, but I'm going to reread a few things and see if I can shake this game more.

[farside22]

I read naked's post and I'm a bit preoccupied here when I ask....is duck a newb?

@duck: have you played mafia before? You may have said something about this.

[farside22]

Except that is completely irrelevant to everything. It was a stupid question and phrased like you thought her actions were scummy.

How do we know if something is irrelevant until we investigate? I don't think it was a stupid question. Even if all it did was spark some debate, it will be of value to the town.

I do see how my question could be read that I'm implying a scum read from it. All I was trying to do what get more information so I could determine later if it was scummy or not.

I don't know if she was keeping track of Beli because she had her vote on him and was tracking him closely because of suspicion or if she was tracking Beli close because they are partners or if she just likes to spreadsheet out votes to decipher patterns.

You did not ask it as a question.

You implied the vote was silly and that all naked did was vote on the one reason when he had stated other issues.
At least I think naked said something else.

Yea I see post 194 is a sum up with the main reason at the end.
I don't see it as strong
I also don't see what the deal with the vote count is all about.

Currently I'm too brain dead to think.

[farside22]

I thought you and skelda was referring to your comment to naked jogger with the back and forth.
If not, that was my impression.
If you two are talking about the question you asked to any I don't see a point to the question but I don't see it as scummy.

[farside22]

Any is Amy by the way in the above.

[farside22]

So I'm doing ISO reads.
I may ask a questioned asked or something I missed. Frankly with my time schedule this week it maybe slow going but it's more functionally for me then reading the game in full.

@acryon:

I get the impression Toby is not reading things in full.

I also feel that, since I talked in that same post about her not providing much real content outside of just questioning people, and her next post(76) is asking yet another question of others without providing other real content or even answering your question.

Is this a scum or town tell for you?

Why are you turning this into argumentum ad absurdum by changing the argument to involve all replacements, requested or not?

Because I'm not. Those links were two games where the mod specifically stated replacement was requested, and one where a pregame replacement occurred without sufficient delay to gamestart for it to be anything

but

a request.

"Active elsewhere" is not relevant; there is no cause and effect relationship between replace-out requests and activity elsewhere. What's next, are we going to limit the criteria to a specific moon phase, making it even more impossible to get a sufficient sample size to be meaningful? How about only looking at replacements who are dog owners?

While I don't necessarily think Beli is going about it the perfect way, I think he is at least tunneling in a good direction. Offering essentially useless input can be both scum trying to appear helpful or newb town trying to be helpful with bad input. Given that farside is far from a newbie, I'm definitely suspicious of her offering such a bad argument. You have to admit: especially for a very experienced player, that argument really sucked.

I don't see why the tunneling is good.
He's holding onto something that has been explained to death and I don't recall why he thinks this is scummy or mentioned anything else relevant I recall. How long do you think his tunnelling and lack of input becomes more then null?

I don't agree with your view on questioning acryon. Probing questions are like leads in a case. Some of them go somewhere, some don't. The best thing to do with the leads that don't go anywhere is to abandon them. There's no need to follow up. Also I think TobyLoby has been offering other kinds of content.

I agree that some don't go anywhere and they don't require follow-up, but there was no follow-up on almost any of them. So unless Toby has some extraordinary record of consecutive bad leads in this game, there is still some missing content.

I agree with this! It's why I'm voting Toby because I see it more scum then town tell.

Why no vote on anyone?

Acryon read is null. I see some thoughts and views but no drive or push on who he thinks is scummy or pushing to be better reads.

[farside22]

I'm going to be so confused with all these replacements.

[farside22]

I'm reread bel and I still have no clue why he thinks I'm scummy.
Add he has not really talked about much else this game.

[farside22]

I'm going to be so confused with all these replacements.

Seriously, hopefully it's not people that I am in other games with, because I already have a few of those and it's throwing me through a loop ><

I'm most likely going to have the replacements with a clean slate. Cerberus for example had 2 post that tell me nothing. Duck I recall bits and pieces. Luckily it's early enough in the game a fresh perspective would help.

[farside22]

Okay so I finally read through everything and this is my first comment on the wagon against me. Although looking back now, I can see how my vote and my reasoning can seem scummy I think the speed of my wagon and the lack of people questioning the idea of my one post proving rather or not I'm scum is actually a legitimate way to look at things is pretty bad. I definitely think that scum is on my wagon and are influencing it although to who is exactly scum I'm not quite sure. I'm going to post a reads list after my next class tonight and will go from there. Also, if there are certain questions I have missed please direct them towards me and I will do my best to answer.

Honestly the whole "my wagon is scum driven because it was so fast" is awful. Saying a wagon is scum driven because it's fast is bad but saying that about your own wagon seems even worse.

Hey CKD it's been a while. Read up and vote Chaos <3

This is pretty null. I see it so much these days I always feel myself rolling my eyes.
I haven't checked to see if chaos is around, but I'm bothered he hasn't said more if he really feels the wagon is scum driven.
Usually there is a follow up with who looks scummy on the wagon.


*waves to CKD*
Long time no see.

This game needs a wake up call.

Vote: chaos

[farside22]

Acyron, why did you leave the Chaos wagon to join mine? You've indicated nothing in your posts that you think Chaos' last post made him any less scummy or rather, townie. You also said you like to use your vote for pressure, but then you get of Chaos' wagon to put a second post on me. That doesn't make sense.

I wanted to put some pressure on you at least until I hear a little more from chaos. He is already supposedly putting together his reads list, and the pressure on him is still there. I think my vote is better off on someone else for pressure than on him at this point.

My vote would come back here but I wonder why no one else is seeing it.
I tend to tunnel and wake up, then go back to tunneling.

[farside22]

Ugh
Note to self don't reread Toby. Urge to revote is still there
Just lots if question and little analysis.

Also looked at chaos http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=24044
He's around.

[farside22]

CKD:

*Silently screams*

I get it. People don't agree, people may have there own view on what I said about requesting replacement at the start. I have seen it exactly twice and both times it was scum.

WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS? “everybody is townie, I don’t like the speed of the chaos wagon, but think he is “scummy”….I don’t want to put my vote on him because….???? Uhhh….I don’t want to be associated with his lynch when people look at the votes later. But I am still going to push he is scummy in hopes I can get others to vote him”

I'm going to disagree.
I don't see scum avoiding fast wagons and calling everyone town. It typically leaves them with no one to lynch.
If chaos was town pushing the wagon is more typical or jumping on the wagon calling chaos scummy.

What was your thought in Toby? She bugs me to no end.

[farside22]

The acyron vote switch to me is weird in combination with farside's chaos vote switch off me, especially when acyron's inspiration in part due to farside. I can't properly articulate what bothers me about it.

Regarding scum town reading a bunch of people, yes it happens and it can be a scum tell depending on how they go about it. It can be difficult for some scum to see through what they feel is obvious towniness. Usually they do it with a lot of null reads though. That hasn't very much struck me what Skelda is doing, but I need to reread the last few pages.

Actually, I read back a bit and remembered how he put Chaos at null so maybe. That retraction of the Chaos read is what is striking to me. The first part of the post looks like somebody calling out a scumread and it didn't follow through naturally to me to then call him null. It's hit me that Skelda may be using logic different from my own though.

It's 4 days? Maybe 3 now till deadline. I had one agree while most say nothing.
Lately I have noticed a lot of last minute wagons, which do not help, and choas is a scum read.
Chaos has been saying he would provide reads and didn't like the wagon. I expected a return by now and he hasn't shown. It's time for pressure.

So you don’t disagree with my assessment of him, you disagree that the moves are not scummy.

he clearly is pushing wagons, though. he has voted someone who he felt was townish. thoughts now?

He is voting for ape last I checked. Did I miss him voting a town read?
Where if so?
Chaos is scummy.
Did you read his last post?

Okay so I finally read through everything and this is my first comment on the wagon against me. Although looking back now, I can see how my vote and my reasoning can seem scummy I think the speed of my wagon and the lack of people questioning the idea of my one post proving rather or not I'm scum is actually a legitimate way to look at things is pretty bad.

I definitely think that scum is on my wagon and are influencing it

although to who is exactly scum I'm not quite sure. I'm going to post a reads list after my next class tonight and will go from there. Also, if there are certain questions I have missed please direct them towards me and I will do my best to answer.

I know I look scummy.
Wagon is quick and scum is on it.
The bold was said in game by Ramon here
Which means he's read the game and using someone else's view.
He is around and posting.

[farside22]

The second quote is CKD.

[farside22]

Okay for starters I'm going to

Unvote

Looking through, it's hard for me to pinpoint everyone I think is scum but here are my leads at the moment.

I feel that AMY is definitely town and that unlike my original thoughts that Farside is town as well.

I don't quite see the logic on why people are thinking Skelda is scum because the logic that he brings up in 248 makes sense IMO but his post in 279 does come off a little fishy although I would not exactly call it scummy.

Now the person I think comes off the scummiest IMO is nakedjogger. Nakejogger had been pushing for a RoyalApe lynch for most of D-1 and then out of nowhere votes Farside with no explanation? That seems scummy to me.

I thought you believed the wagon would have scum on there, based on your last post, did I miss something?

VOTE: farside22

I hate naked votes.

Toby isn't a good place for a vote.

@Mod: Some serious action needs to be taken about Astinus posting in tread at this point. It's compromising the game.

I've reported her to Mr. Flay. I don't believe I have the power to ban her, do I? Is there anything else I should be doing? Sorry this has never happened to me before

Why is Toby a bad vote?

[farside22]

I'm rethinking my Toby scum read.
Sometime I think she's just asking questions to look productive, then I read this page and I wonder if she just doesn't post thoughts all the time.

Skelda: why did you vote for Toby?

[farside22]

Mod v/la for 48 hours.
Month end and sick is a bad combo

[farside22]

CKD: last I checked on chaos was ....I think Saturday. My head is a bit fuzzy with this cold. He did not post a lot elsewhere but I noted he had been online and didn't post when he was around. Not sure currently. I'll lay in bed and research more, but time has not been my friend lately.

As for my point against chaos it was here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p6194419

[farside22]

Took a look and chaos hasn't been around since Sunday.

Deadline is coming up. I still standby chaos as scum.
With skelda I don't get the case. I know players look for town reads, granted those are weak town reads reasoning but buddying....at a certain point that just fails as scum. I don't remember skelda voting a town read for bel. I recall skelda voted for bel and unvoting him based on a pretty weak town read.
Chaos follows Ramon did I spell that correctly?) post and then he doesn't follow up with who is scum pushing the wagon.
Bel is another player that concerns me. I don't see a lot coming from him for reads.
Those are still my top two scum reads. I have a few null reads I keep going back and forth on.

[farside22]

I dont think people who are reasonably suspicious are ever mafia. Reasonably suspicious lynches deny all culpability to the lyncher. Safe lynches are never good lunches. I prefer something unsafe, like Beli.

In regard to bussing, i already explained it so hopefully that was sufficient. Chaos doesnt appear that bad to me. Mr blonde thought so, but I honestly cant see what the problem was. Seems like just normal t ownplay to me. A normal town SHOULD be somewhat suspicious and make some mistakes.

He's not even defending his actions and he thought scum was part of the push but he votes naked jogger. How much sense does that make?

I dont think people who are reasonably suspicious are ever mafia. Reasonably suspicious lynches deny all culpability to the lyncher. Safe lynches are never good lunches. I prefer something unsafe, like Beli.

In regard to bussing, i already explained it so hopefully that was sufficient. Chaos doesnt appear that bad to me. Mr blonde thought so, but I honestly cant see what the problem was. Seems like just normal t ownplay to me. A normal town SHOULD be somewhat suspicious and make some mistakes.

I don't know that normal town SHOULD make some mistakes. For instance, I look back at my previous posts before I post to make sure I'm not messing up, because me messing up as town is bad for town. Not only can I throw things off, but then I draw suspicion to me and away from the real scum. It is in town's best interests to play as safe and tight as mafia are trying to.

I don't always look. Many times I have to correct myself and I don't think anyone but scum would do it on purpose. I look at how a case is presented and if it makes sense, what players look to be hiding during conversations and my gut for scum hunting.

[farside22]

And chaos hasn't come back. Hasn't scum hunted. Used ranmon(? Sorry if I'm misspelling this) point and called out naked.
I'm not thrilled with skelda's vote on bel. I don't get where that came from at all.

[farside22]

Something just hit me.

Skelda: please explain why you are voting bel?
Last I checked your reads were here.

I look at this and go, would scum be so flippant?

Yep!

God I loved that game.

UNVOTE:

You are clearly talented scum, so we should keep our eyes on you, but this is too Townie to ignore.

My top scumread is probably Chaos, but he has a lot of votes and so I'm not sure I want to join the horde. My top townreads are A.F.F. and NJ. A.F.F. because she is just town and Naked for his unique reads.

Well, CMK, I don't think having townreads is particularly suspicious and townreads can be useful because they tell you who not to lynch. But I'm obviously a bit biased. You are very good at making convincing cases though. I might be convinced if I didn't know you were wrong.

But you see, having a lot of strong townreads on people gives you fewer scum options right there, and in a game where I don't have a whole lot of strong scumreads, if I have a townread I'm going to say something. Right now I'm feeling RoyalApe, Dry-fit, Toby, and/or Mr_Blonde for scum because pretty much everyone else has at some point given me something that feels genuine. Isn't finding town a valid way to find scum? I think townreading is easier than scumreading. AND both Dry-fit and Mr_Blonde are on the Chaos wagon, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a scummy place to be.

VOTE: Beli I guess. I dunno, if I'm going to be lynched I guess I wouldn't have a huge objection to it being today. What I do not want to do is survive by a thread and then hang around as an easy mislynch for the rest of the game.

CKD, I'm sorry I don't act Town enough for you then. I'm honestly not sure what I was thinking at the time of that post, but I was just addressing his points and not paying attention to whether or not he was scum. And I mean, that's horrible obviously. That's just poor play on my part. I really hate when you have a case built up against you that has plenty of valid points, if it weren't for the fact that you were Town.

But like I said, I really see myself being lynched at some point anyway. I'm really glad I wasn't scum this game because then you would have been right.

So where did bel scum read come from?

[farside22]

I'm not thrilled with skelda's vote on bel. I don't get where that came from at all.

Meh, if you look at his ISO you can see the progression. For what it's worth I also feel scummy on Beli.

Let me know what I missed. I think I saw one with bel's name on it but I got to get back to work.

[farside22]

what if I give everyone hugs to join the Skelda wagon.

I mean hugs, guys, hugs.

I need a hug mostly because I hate being sick and a hug makes me feel better.
Well that and NyQuil and sleep.

acyron, beli's blood will be on your hands.

can you take the heat?!?!

Gladly. He has provided nothing to the game besides his over-the-top farside tunneling. His efforts to speak like he's from another century actively muddle discussion. His flippant attitude in regards to scum show he doesn't seem to care what's going on. Then his last post just completely sucks.

I'm not happy about my lack of scumreads this late in the Day. There's

got

to be something usable here...

Come on.

You know who else has a lack of scum reads to work with in the late day?

Skelda

badaboomboodssshhhh

Nah. Skelda had many scum reads. I even quoted them.


Was it a hammer vote on bel?

[farside22]

D1 mislynches aren't so bad, you can still pull through.

If your town how about scum reads there.

[farside22]

Toby: I don't know if bel is being genuine but I agree with the bold

Why do you have a town read on him?

too flippant (yeah yeah WIFOM)..also his is a counter wagon to someone I think is scum.

his wagon came out of no where with little case or info in it. there was no point to it.

That gives me more pause and happy with my current vote.

[farside22]

Let's try this:
Who here is town reading chaos and why?

[farside22]

i dont know, leaning town.

Skelda's comments in regards to him and his wagon.

Your tunnel vision is showing.
Yes I'm aware im no better

[farside22]

acryon, any opinion on Beli coming in?

Disingenuous. He's played many games on this site. As per 423, he was on and lurking, so something tells me he didn't just pop in to page 18 and think he was lynched because of what you said. Especially since there was a VC two pages earlier with him at L-4.

Meh. I know a lot of player that go to the latest post page and see what is going on.
if bel was scum there would have been a fake claim as scum, I think.

[farside22]

farside, what is your read on Skelda and Beli?

Bel was more leaning scum and skelda seemed null to town.
I think the bad town reads and reasoning from skelda that CKD pointed comes more from town. Bel has been pretty quiet and seemed to be tunneling in nothing.
The wagon on bel gives me pause and I sort of feel both wagons are town.

[farside22]

The wagon on bel gives me pause and I sort of feel both wagons are town.

I would like to pursue this line of thinking a little further.

Chaos was the wagon for a time.
Then I came in, felt that Skelda was scum, started (or helped) get his wagon going. If Chaos was scum, and Skelda was town, why would scum start ANOTHER random wagon on Bel (who you think is also town)?

that doesnt make any sense...

I wish I could reference ongoing game.

Best I can say is lots of infighting and scum bussing day 1.
Oh and fake claiming scum.

[farside22]

What are you saying? Do you think CKD is scum tunneling?

Yes, and at the wrong time.

398 and 469 are good examples.

What?
Im confused by this. Are you saying CKD is scum?
I briefly looked at the rest of the page but I have to run.
I just have 1 hour left of work.

[farside22]

I'm here. I would like a claim.
I don't know if there is time for a wain switch.

Any last comments? I can be back in one hour. Plus I need to see what I missed. Just looked at this page

[farside22]

Will you be on to wait for a claim?

As much as I can wait.
I want to personally crawl into bed and go to sleep, but the child doesn't allow me early bed times.

[farside22]

This last chaos post makes me really wish we had the time to get a train there going. That post is rough man. Sounds

so

contrived.

No shit.

What are you saying? Do you think CKD is scum tunneling?

Yes, and at the wrong time.

398 and 469 are good examples.

What?
Im confused by this. Are you saying CKD is scum?
I briefly looked at the rest of the page but I have to run.
I just have 1 hour left of work.

No, I don't. I was saying I think he was looking to me as scum, and he is looking in the wrong place.

Yeah your post was confusion. Since Toby asked it you thought CKD was scum tunneling there.

The wagon on bel gives me pause and I sort of feel both wagons are town.

I would like to pursue this line of thinking a little further.

Chaos was the wagon for a time.
Then I came in, felt that Skelda was scum, started (or helped) get his wagon going. If Chaos was scum, and Skelda was town, why would scum start ANOTHER random wagon on Bel (who you think is also town)?

that doesnt make any sense...

I wish I could reference ongoing game.

Best I can say is lots of infighting and scum bussing day 1.
Oh and fake claiming scum.

ooookkay.

must be one crazy game.


cause....uh.


I dont understand your line of thinking here in this game.

Maybe this will help me. Are you leaning that I am a misguided townie...or scum?

Misguided.
I'm just pointing out one wagon on one player that more people defended then voted does not mean chaos is town. I mean there was what...4 votes I think on the guy.
I'm not thrilled with voting skelda at the end of the day. I'd rather see chaos lynched by miles.

[farside22]

Hammer time

Vote: skelda

I don't know if I will be back on and hopefully I'm wrong.

[farside22]

vote: chaos

This should have happened yesterday.

[farside22]

Also, why be afraid of those people, Belisarius?

He listed those as scum reads. I think?
If so it's awful.

[farside22]

This last chaos post makes me really wish we had the time to get a train there going. That post is rough man. Sounds

so

contrived.

I'd like to know what happened to your thoughts on chaos at the end of th day to joining the bw on bel today.

[farside22]

I have this crazy thing in my head of chaos/acryon scum together.
First I noted acryon light defense of chaos, then end of day says he'd like to put pressure. Earlier his comments were thus:

He's valuable as a future mislynch? What? I don't think Chaos has made himself particularly anything. People talk about Chaos and his wagon being something to look into but I'm not seeing the votes constructed that way. It's all bs.

Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I took it as him saying Chaos is valuable to

scum

as a future mislynch, which I agree with. The best thing for scum is keeping people around that town is generally suspicious of. I don't think it was intentional, but certainly his early comments read as scum to people very quickly. This is great for scum.

Wifom.

Chaos has made no effort, vote skelda for weak reasoning and I swear people are jumping on bel for the same thing. Lack of reads and little said. Why is one more scummy then the other?

[farside22]

Why not vote for the scum making the list instead of the potential scum in the list if that's the case?

farside, my initial theory yesterday was a scum acyron was maybe trying to get off of a town chaos lynch yesterday and then avoid being on the wagon that looked to go forward. His vote on Skelda did make that lynch final though, so it can't at the very least be entirely true. I disagree with him that the Skelda lynch had the most potential though, as I held some doubt on Beli and you seemed to have more of a town read on Skelda than Beli. I'll go more into things later tonight.

The one quote from acryon isn't the only thing.
It's something I'm consider if chaos is scum.

Does anybody think both Belisarius and curiouskarmadog could be scum together?

Not me. I thought CKD had put together a case on skelda most seemed to follow. Scum is on that skelda wagon.

[farside22]

Does anybody think both Belisarius and curiouskarmadog could be scum together?

Not me. I thought CKD had put together a case on skelda most seemed to follow. Scum is on that skelda wagon.

But if Beli is scum, then CKD did a good job of badgering me off of his wagon.

Badgering? You mean questioning you?

[farside22]

Okay so I was looking through what I miss and I do not understand why there is such a big wagon building on Belisarius...I mean the cases against him are not put together very well and the speed it built after there has not really been a large wagon on him the entire day is alarming.

Vote:Skelda

The biggest reason for my vote against Skelda is for this reasoning..Skelda did not bring up a lot of reasons for his vote on Beli and his comments and willingness to be lynched in 346 and the way he sounds with his last posts and lack of posting now here just seems scummy to me.

This kind of makes me want to townread you.

What crack are you smoking and no the paranoia doesn't count.
The reason he found skelda scum are all null reasons.
Skelda willing to self vote, null. His lack of reason is hypocritical and now he's voting AFF!

Does anybody think both Belisarius and curiouskarmadog could be scum together?

Not me. I thought CKD had put together a case on skelda most seemed to follow. Scum is on that skelda wagon.

But if Beli is scum, then CKD did a good job of badgering me off of his wagon.

If Beli is town, then I also did a good job "badgering" you off the wagon...does that mean anything?

I didn't say it gave you general scum-points. Only in the case that Beli is scum.

do you take any responsibility for your vote on Skelda? Or did I bully you into it? Did you think Skelda was scum?

Yes, I do. I was between Skelda and Beli for my vote, but I did think Beli was by far the better vote, hence my consistent defense. I did finally decide to go on Skelda instead, because the traction just wasn't there for a Beli vote, and I'd rather vote for my lesser scum-read than no-lynch. If you read any of my other posts, you would know that I thought Skelda was possibly scum, and mentioned it several times. If you weren't wasting my time with some of your other questions, you certainly did with that one.

this post contained 4(now 5) questions, is this badgering in your perspective?

You are voting beli and think he's scum right?
If so your first comment here to CKD is pretty bad.
You come off not sounding like you strongly believe beli is scum.

If he does turn out to be scum though there's a good chance of Beli being scum too.

So what took you off that beli wagon?

[farside22]

Okay so I was looking through what I miss and I do not understand why there is such a big wagon building on Belisarius...I mean the cases against him are not put together very well and the speed it built after there has not really been a large wagon on him the entire day is alarming.

Vote:Skelda

The biggest reason for my vote against Skelda is for this reasoning..Skelda did not bring up a lot of reasons for his vote on Beli and his comments and willingness to be lynched in 346 and the way he sounds with his last posts and lack of posting now here just seems scummy to me.

This kind of makes me want to townread you.

What crack are you smoking and no the paranoia doesn't count.
The reason he found skelda scum are all null reasons.
Skelda willing to self vote, null. His lack of reason is hypocritical and now he's voting AFF!

I didn't factor his reasons into my read.

But since it obviously bothered you I wonder why you didn't cause a shitstorm then. You probably could've gained enough traction to lynch him with 3 hours remaining (Skelda having 5 votes and Beli 4). Your push on him seemed premature and half-ass to me and it didn't climax when it should've. Come post in question you wound up talking about meta and your work instead. Maybe you were content with the way things were going.

You come off not sounding like you strongly believe beli is scum.

Maybe he doesn't strongly believe it. What kind of argument is this?

So what took you off that beli wagon?

A townie would've asked what brought me on in the first place, anyway. I think you're scum and should be lynched today.

That's ridiculous. The thread was quiet despite my push and chaos comment.
I can't force people to come in the thread to vote if they either aren't around or don't think there is enough time.
Also I believe 2 people stated there wasn't enough time or traction for the lynch to happen.
Did you miss that for some reason?

Also, nice question dodge. Between your vote of beli, then me nothing happened so why did you jump off the wagon so quickly?

As for my question to acryon I note people have associate tells tend to push both players but scum will push one over the other.

[farside22]

As for my question to acryon I note people have associate tells tend to push both players but scum will push one over the other.

That's fine if that's how you play, but it isn't how I play. Why would I split my pressure on 2 people(one of which depends on the other to be scum), when I can push it all on one?

It's not how I play, it's what I see often.
That leads the question if true, who would you think is scum if beli flips town?


@naked: are you an alt?

[farside22]

I'm in opposite land of thinking one of beli/chaos is scum.
I don't see them scum together.

[farside22]

I'm in opposite land of thinking one of beli/chaos is scum.
I don't see them scum together.

Do you not think that Chaos's WKing of Beli seemed really contrived?

No.
Why do you?

[farside22]

I'm in opposite land of thinking one of beli/chaos is scum.
I don't see them scum together.

Do you not think that Chaos's WKing of Beli seemed really contrived?

No.
Why do you?

Yes, and you even said this. Did you change your mind?

This last chaos post makes me really wish we had the time to get a train there going. That post is rough man. Sounds

so

contrived.

No shit.

No I was referring to his reason for voting skelda.

[farside22]

I don't understand what you are saying and how it applies to the traction of a ~4 hours before deadline wagon. Me, you, farside and ultimately Chaos were the deciding votes for last day's lynch.

@Mod: Requesting a prod of Ranon please. Thanks!

I don't know how to explain it much better than I did. But let me try like this. I'm a salesman, trying to sell a product to people. Suddenly, someone comes up and starts telling me how terrible the product is and how my sales ideas don't make sense, etc, all in front of my potential buyers. This would certainly make it almost impossible for me to sell you the product in a short period of time after you witnessed someone bashing it/questioning me so heavily. It would take some more work and extra evidence(which wasn't there yet) to get you over the perceived issues this person brought up.

I really didn't see it that way.
In hindsite I should have voted beli and pushed with my town read on skelda. I forgot how crappy I was feeling that day.

Why do you think a Beli town flip = a CKD def town flip?

I don't think scum CKD has such an incentive to defend Beli the way he did.

[farside22]

see, this is a problem right here.

This is the opposite of a problem ; Haven't you heard? Gin makes you win.

Your being trollish.
I'd like to see you push on who you think is scum.

[farside22]

I think a Chaos (scum) flip will speak volumes.

Agreed.

People that I haven't see much from today as far as reads.
Ape, scrabbles and duckling.

[farside22]

Oh also @Scrambles

Looking back over, I can see how Beli seems to be having some scumy vibes but I still don't feel that he stands enough as scum for me to put my vote against him

So who is your current scum read and why?

I think a Chaos (scum) flip will speak volumes.

Agreed.

People that I haven't see much from today as far as reads.
Ape, scrabbles and duckling.

You haven't seen much from me because I haven't been here. Just finished a quick read through of d2. Not sure why focus has largely been on two suspects. Would think people would be looking at everybody in depth.

My scum suspect is alive. Who do you think is suspicious? Why everyone?

[farside22]

okay talking time. everyone can join in.

A hypothetical scum Chaos comes in and does a little spiel on Skelda being town and he can't see why Skelda is scum. Note that Skelda was big time defending him at this time. It's a few hours before the day ends and the votes are Beli vs Skelda. Chaos comes on and does a spiel on how he can't understand the wagon on Beli and then votes Skelda for scumminess. To get this point out of the way, also note that Chaos did not mention Beli before this point and Beli didn't talk about Chaos lots. There was no defending on Beli's part.

What is his scum motivation for his Skelda vote over Beli?

My question what is the town motivation to say one player is town and then vote them later.

That said I had not noted that there was little interaction between beli and him.
Hold that thought....

[farside22]

Sorry I had thought beli did defend chaos till I realized he was doung it day 2.
I think it realizing the lack of interaction and chaos's vote onto skelda after town reading him they could be scum together.
Usually I see lack of interaction or bussing when it comes to scum.

[farside22]

A small correction in what I wrote, Chaos said he didn't see how Skelda could be scum, but it still indicates he thought Skelda was town.

That is an interesting question, farside. What it means is that Chaos had to make a conscious decision to leave his prior town read to then vote them later. At the very least this means Chaos wasn't just going through the motions. I can see town and scum motivation for doing so, but which one is it and why?

Well his changes in read are not being explained.
I agree his I don't see how skelda could be scum to voting makes no sense. Now apparently he seems to be shifting to beli based on the vibes comment acryon brings up.


CKD: what do you think of the interaction?

[farside22]

@Farside I don't remember.

I'm going to assume yes then

[farside22]

My question what is the town motivation to say one player is town and then vote them later.
...

Farside, are you scum?

are you saying you never said someone was town and vote him later for WHATEVER reason in the same day? AM I misunderstanding what you are saying here?

CKD: what do you think of the interaction?

Between Chaos and Skelda?

I thought the reasoning behind the vote was bad. But I thought Skelda was scum, so I was happy to see the vote on Skelda. there was a shit ton of bad reasoning/no reasoning for voting yesterday.

If some brings up a point that makes me think I will look at a player and question a player. I don't think I go hot to cold without a flip.

Actually I was talking about between bel and chaos.

[farside22]

Actually I was talking about between bel and chaos.

what interaction in particular...post number please.

Read the last page about what Toby and I were discussing.

farside, I don't think he will answer me until you do your part.

I will just wait here tapping my foot waiting for responses.

daylight is running out though. more pro responses from other people please. i am salivating at royal's upcoming in-depth analysis of everyone the most tbh.

He's wrong if that is what he is thinking.
I'm trying to figure out who is scum but with 3 players barely posting today and one who votes with no reasoning it's down to 2 I feel comfortable calling scum and someone within the lurkers.

[farside22]

This is to show the chaos read of skelda

Okay for starters I'm going to

Unvote

Looking through, it's hard for me to pinpoint everyone I think is scum but here are my leads at the moment.

I feel that AMY is definitely town and that unlike my original thoughts that Farside is town as well.

I don't quite see the logic on why people are thinking Skelda is scum because the logic that he brings up in 248 makes sense IMO but his post in 279 does come off a little fishy although I would not exactly call it scummy.

Now the person I think comes off the scummiest IMO is nakedjogger. Nakejogger had been pushing for a RoyalApe lynch for most of D-1 and then out of nowhere votes Farside with no explanation? That seems scummy to me.

Okay so I was looking through what I miss and I do not understand why there is such a big wagon building on Belisarius...I mean the cases against him are not put together very well and the speed it built after there has not really been a large wagon on him the entire day is alarming.

Vote:Skelda

The biggest reason for my vote against Skelda is for this reasoning..Skelda did not bring up a lot of reasons for his vote on Beli and his comments and willingness to be lynched in 346 and the way he sounds with his last posts and lack of posting now here just seems scummy to me.

What it comes down to a switch it's based on one freeking post and anyone that thinks willingness to vote self is scummy needs to explain why. It is null at best.

I realize he called Amy town and then voted her for something that is not true.
He never looked at the wagon on him when he thought scum was there.

I just don't get why more votes are not in him.

[farside22]

I really hate the too scummy to be scum mentality.
I said it once (not here) I will say it a thousand freeking times.
There is a difference between giving reads and making bad comments and lying down doing fucking nothing.
One is bad town, the other is skating by scum.

[farside22]

I really hate the too scummy to be scum mentality.
I said it once (not here) I will say it a thousand freeking times.
There is a difference between giving reads and making bad comments and lying down doing fucking nothing.
One is bad town, the other is skating by scum.

And which category do you put Chaos in?

The second.

He sure as he'll isn't bleeding town.
If bel flips town who is scum? Who is scum besides bel?

[farside22]

@ckd: I agreed with you, but said it wasn't a scum tell.....I thought? I'll look back later.

Also just a peeve I typically have people disagree with me and my reasoning. My scum views changes based on what I see happen recently.
Town bickering, scum lurking. Me showing why x is scum and either scum limping on the read or fighting depending on the player. Mostly under the radar players tend to be scum.
Like right now people debating and discussing, me, CKD, Toby and acryon.
As much as I thought acryon might be scum, he is coming across on why he thinks chaos is scummy but why he hesitates. I get that, I see a genuine thought process.
Anyone, besides Amy because I initially town read her, has played either non-commital, lurking or non participant falls under other.

Still Chaos is the way to go today.

I could also go a farside lynch as well.

Because wifom?

[farside22]

Farside...thoughts?

Farside is playing strangely this game. She is saying things that I wouldnt expect a veteran to say. That aside.

From Farside's view.

Farside (scum) votes CHoas (scum) and just doesnt leave the wagon...for nothing. She does like my case against Skelda (which by the way I still stand by, town flip or not)...she doesnt join the Bel wagon...she keeps her vote pat. Why? She doesnt have her votes on anyone town...it doesnt raise suspicion. If for some odd ball reason Chaos (scum ) does get the a lynch...then she looks great.

so in the night Farside/chaos scum team off someone who wanted to kill chaos (dryfit)..farside can come back and put her vote back on Chaos, without actually doing anything else in the game...and there is less pressure on Chaos. after Bel (town) was so close to getting lynched yesterday, it would now be easier to get him lynched.


I think, Chaos should be the lynch today.

after this post, am I scummier to you?

I think your town.
I get why you come to the conclusion, but I'm a tunneler and if someone reads scum I can't shake it till they are lynched. Also as I said I thought I said skelda wasn't scummy......
I think a player killed at night is used for wifom.


This is what I said about skelda.

CKD:

*Silently screams*

I get it. People don't agree, people may have there own view on what I said about requesting replacement at the start. I have seen it exactly twice and both times it was scum.

WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS? “everybody is townie, I don’t like the speed of the chaos wagon, but think he is “scummy”….I don’t want to put my vote on him because….???? Uhhh….I don’t want to be associated with his lynch when people look at the votes later. But I am still going to push he is scummy in hopes I can get others to vote him”

I'm going to disagree.
I don't see scum avoiding fast wagons and calling everyone town. It typically leaves them with no one to lynch.
If chaos was town pushing the wagon is more typical or jumping on the wagon calling chaos scummy.

What was your thought in Toby? She bugs me to no end.

[farside22]

Oh and CKD: if you decide to lynch me based on crazy wifom, when I flip town please still lynch chaos.

Sigh.

[farside22]

given the above theory (Bel is scum, maybe on a team with Acryon) this vote count seems off.

Vote Count 2.03

Farside22: (1) NakedJogger
Belisarius: (4) Amy Farrah Fowler, acryon, TobyLoby, scrambles
Curiouskarmadog : (1) Belisarius
Chaoslord54: (2) Farside22, Curiouskarmadog

Not Voting: Snugglyduckling, Ranon, RoyalApe, Chaoslord54

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-26 16:55:00)

Mod Notes:
Ranon has a few more hours to pick up his prod or I will start looking for a replacement

Can you tell me how this seems off though?

Actually,

UNVOTE:

I need to think about Chaos more. I get what you are saying about Bel/acyron scum. But I can also see killing Dry-fit because they caught a whiff of him being a PR or they wanted to to add the fuel to two wagons. Question is, is Chaos at the level where he is able to realize, make the distinction, and play off the profit in saving a townie to be used as bait for tomorrow vs saving someone who had a town read on him and defended him?

The issue with that theory is neither acyron nor bel are voting for chaos.

[farside22]

The issue with that theory is neither acyron nor bel are voting for chaos.

Hmm?

Wasn't the idea that scum killed dry for wifom against chaos?

[farside22]

I'm in a pretty bad spot, lost my job yesterday.
I'll be taking a few days to sort stuff out.

Mod: V/la till Tuesday

noted

[farside22]

Sorry. Like Beli, I have nothing to add at this point. The game's at a point where the main activity is waiting for wagons to get big.

I'll try to find something when I have a little more time.

Who else are you scum reading besides bel? What do you think of the discussion going on of the theory.

Thanks CKD. Mostly I just feel numb currently.
Also I thought more about what your theory is about me and I realized I think I've done that more often then not when I was scum.
Did you meta me?

[farside22]

Sorry. Like Beli, I have nothing to add at this point. The game's at a point where the main activity is waiting for wagons to get big.

I'll try to find something when I have a little more time.

Who else are you scum reading besides bel? What do you think of the discussion going on of the theory.

Thanks CKD. Mostly I just feel numb currently.
Also I thought more about what your theory is about me and I realized I think I've done that more often then not when I was scum.
Did you meta me?

I'm making the assumption that Beli is scum, and based on my theory Chaos and CKD are also scum.
If Beli winds up being town then I'll need to look into my other reads as a whole and see who's a blip on my scum radar.

Which theory in particular do you mean?

There was a bel/acryon discussion going on.

I don't think acryon or CKD is scum together.
Can you explain why bel/chaos makes sense? I read or trollish and the other lurking.
Also the defending of players is something I see from scum/scum players.

[farside22]

Did you meta me?

no...but like me you are a veteran. when I am scum (I KNOW I KNOW, WIFOM) I will most likely railroad one of my scum partners especially if they do something scummy early. from my angle, I had a pretty good case against Skelda....there was also wagon on Bel. for you not to come off your Chaos vote (until the hammer) was weird.

also farside, i know I didnt ask you a question here, but did you read it?

also, as scum (and I think you know I will check for honesty, so save me the trouble) have you ever been scum with a partner, jumped on their wagon Day 1 and stayed on it in hopes to build some town cred when he was revealed as scum later during a possible lynch?

Yes.
Myko game was recent. I jumped on my scum buddy day 1 and he was lynched.
The other one I was thinking of was a game a long time ago and bussed my buddy from the start and rode through the game on town cred. I can get links later of town and scum games if you want.

Riddle: you just came in the game and posted about bel and not much else. Have you read through the game? If so was there anything else that caught your attention?

[farside22]

My scum suspect is alive. Who do you think is suspicious? Why everyone?

Starting to time warp through things now, sorry to all about the inactivity.

Not sure about who I'm suspicious of at the moment as I'm really out of tune with this game. Why everyone? I only know my role, why should I trust anyone?

So your basically going trust no one and do nothing here?
I get being behind, out of touch....but this shit doesn't help.
Skelda was suspicious of you, you've been MIA nearly all of day 2 and you can't be asked to provide something more? Your play is no better the bel.

Amy: thoughts on ape here.

[farside22]

Yes, of course I have read through the game. The main thing that caught my attention through my notes was Beli's behaviour. At the moment, I currently think the scumteam consists of Beli + CKD + someone else. I talked about Beli first as he's my top scumread.

Is there anything else you want me to comment/talk about in particular?

Why is CKD a scum read?
The case he present was good and if chaos was town I can't imagine scum CKD pushing a case n someone else.

[farside22]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

I started thinking about this today.
I wanted to check his meta and see how he behaves in situations like this. There had been some meta talk about his play.

[farside22]

Okay so my read on bel was do to ongoing game.
Researching his games as town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

More active and talking about his reads.
Scum game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

He did replace in the game and gave reads when being lynched.


I noticed looking through bel's games he is either killed at night or kept around till end game.
Mostly this was to see how he behaved when pushed during a lynch.

I know lately he has been more quiet playing games, but I still feel there would be something coming from town bel that would be talking/pushing who he thinks is scum.

I personally been trying to keep my head out of meta for reasons like this, it didn't tell me anything and people are playing closer to there meta or playing like shit.

I think bel is at l-2, I noted he hammered as scum last game so I'm going to see if there is any other thoughts or views in the game before any other votes are placed on bel in case he is scum.

[farside22]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

"Generally"...based on what? it all depends on the player, have you meta-ed Bel to see if this is true for him or you just trying to justify bullshit?

I have seen players (scum or not) defend themselves and then be attacked for being too defensive....or only thinking that someone is scum BECUASE they are being attacked...or whatever.

I have also seen players (scum or not) not give a shit either way.

more likely than not bel is a fucking vanilla town who doesnt give a shit about this game. I hate players like that.. HATE. They only play when they have a PR or a scum role. If they get anything else they phone it in. I know I will eat these words if he actually flips scum...but I am almost positive he is a TI or just a townie who doesnt really care either way.


what I think is really interesting, is this statement from you. IF I go back and look at your other games and see THIS (players who are scum dont defend themselves) IS INDEED NOT THE CASE. what does that say about you? Can you provide me a finished game when you saw this to be the case and you developed the "generally" basis? Save me some time. When I look at your completed past games...will I see that this is a true OR false statement?

CKD: I know this is towards acryon but recently I lynched 2 players that did shit all and flipped scum and 1 was boarded town. A 4th time is ongoing but let's say more often scum then town, this is why I looked at bel to see what he does.
I think his vote and reasoning about you is shit, his effort to play is shit.
The issue I have is I can list chaos under the same fucking category as bel and I don't get why bel reads scummier then chaos.

[farside22]

If Beli is town, I suspect those who are making connections to others or who are staying for unclear reasons far away. You can easily go, whelp! But hey ckd and chaos are linked together still maybe!

The thing for me though is how much Beli is not making sense. There is bored and then there is not making sense with his CKD vote when it looks like he should be voting Amy. I'm also a bit suspect of his hints of prness. There is too much wifom to work with here urgh. This is not making sense. That kill does not make sense for a scum Beli. It can make sense if the team believes Beli can be saved by town looking at the kill and latching on. A scum beli and farside team maybe could fit with farside recently looking into a Beli scum. A Beli/Chaos team trying to set up Chaos to not have the numbers to vote for him later. Most of the connections between the two weren't made

None of this makes sense. And the thing I hate most is that Beli's weird activity may be worth the lynch on wifom alone. I don't like to play with wifom.

For me most of the discussion is either beli or chaos.
Many people find chaos scum but also see beli scum, like Amy and acryon.

Acryon brought up beli's lack of drive or reads at this point, which I started thinking about.
In my view looking at both cases, they are the same. Both with no cases, neither doing anything for scum hunting. I'm also bothered more that players find beli scum more then chaos.
And really I've seen no good reason.
Upon thinking things through I won't be voting for beli.
This day feels like a repeat of day 2 where I see let's lynch chaos and someone says no let's lynch x instead.

[farside22]

Chaos vote on Amy is weird, I get the bend scum vibe with chaos and the last newb I was around that was scum did not bus. In fact he avoid taking to or about his scum buddy as I recall.
With chaos the lack of interaction is many, many people.

[farside22]

Bend=newb.
Damn auto correct

[farside22]

Sorry, just had thirty hours of travel from Japan. I'm back home now and ready to contribute fully again!

Farside, I feel like you are really focused on chaos. Seems like it always comes back to him with you.

I tunnel on players I think are scum, unless someone says something that has me reevaluate my reads.

[farside22]

I'm getting at that I just noticed that it looks like farside is really tunneling on chaos. He admits it, but that doesn't alleviate my thoughts that it is usually a scumtell to tunnel. Makes fewer enemies, etc

So mr. Bel voter, are you a hypocrite or just felt like focusing on me?
No seriously.
CKD brought up nothing but skelda day 1, you focus only on bel day 1 and 2.
Amy has been it on bel so please explain why my tunneling stood out amount others?

[farside22]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

Not necessarily. For one, constantly defending yourself and trying to push another lynch can be seen as scummy. It's best more often that not to not defend yourself too much and just try and contradict some of the points made against you, especially if you're town. However, you'll find that part of some people's meta is to choose not to defend themselves at all, for whatever reason. I have not checked Beli's meta to find out whether he falls into that bracket. I'll leave that to farside as she said she would do that in #760.

Did the meta post here:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6236875

[farside22]

I'm going to point out chaos is around:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=24044

The argument about town would do under pressure falls just as much under chaos.

Ape has all but disappeared and did scramble ever come back and respond to my questions?

[farside22]

I'm going to point out chaos is around:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=24044

The argument about town would do under pressure falls just as much under chaos.

Ape has all but disappeared and did scramble ever come back and respond to my questions?

Well I don't know that general inactivity was my point with Beli, it was that the posts he did make didn't work to get town in a better direction, but were somewhat trolly/fluffy.

I'm going to be blunt.
If I come out looking like an asshole, I'm sorry.

When I see one player being voted for that does shit all and lurks about while another player is being wagoned, that lurker tends to be scum. I'm sick and tired of people giving a free fucking pass to chaos.
Is beli acting trollish? Yes. Does the case on CKD make any fucking sense? No.
What has chaos done? Make weak cases and disapeared when pressured while everyone dicks around wanting to lynch someone else.
This is day 2 of the same shit. If people don't want to lynch him again and beli flips town, I'm going to have this big fat shitty post of never ending tunnel while asking, you, why you picked beli over chaos to lynch.

[farside22]

The other point I'm also getting at, is that you based your vote on (scum) Amy listing one scum between you, Chaos, or CKD. Instead of voting for scum Amy herself, you voted for a possible association with Amy.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, and I wasn't as certain of my scumread as you seem to believe.

If I'd seen something scummier before the buddying solidified my read, I would have changed my vote. Since that didn't happen, vote stands. It's not mysterious. It was that or sit in the not voting pile until I had an enormous wagon on me and everything I do looks self-serving.

why are you so certain you'll be gone?

I'm not a precog, I'm just reading the gamestate. It's going to be me or Chaos for sure today, and I sure as hell ain't voting Chaos even to save my own life --

he might vote me to save himself;

hence, I'm the more likely to eat rope today.

A flashwagon on CKD would be nice, but it's not my birthday.

Why do you think a player you are town reading would do the bold?

[farside22]

I hold nk analysis for later. I have zero intent of rocking the boat so close to deadline. I am keeping a wagon other than Beli viable to force players to choose.

So you think chaos is scum? Or you don't think Beli's is scum?

[farside22]

Someone who doesn't think chaos/beli are scum together need to sell me on scum motivation from beli not looking to self preserve

[farside22]

I wrote down a whole spiel, but who in your mind are the four or five individuals.

Farside,

Spoiler: farside quote

The other point I'm also getting at, is that you based your vote on (scum) Amy listing one scum between you, Chaos, or CKD. Instead of voting for scum Amy herself, you voted for a possible association with Amy.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, and I wasn't as certain of my scumread as you seem to believe.

If I'd seen something scummier before the buddying solidified my read, I would have changed my vote. Since that didn't happen, vote stands. It's not mysterious. It was that or sit in the not voting pile until I had an enormous wagon on me and everything I do looks self-serving.

why are you so certain you'll be gone?

I'm not a precog, I'm just reading the gamestate. It's going to be me or Chaos for sure today, and I sure as hell ain't voting Chaos even to save my own life --

he might vote me to save himself;

hence, I'm the more likely to eat rope today.

A flashwagon on CKD would be nice, but it's not my birthday.

Why do you think a player you are town reading would do the bold?

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at, but Skelda offered to do the same thing yesterday and Beli whom you are not voting also offered to do the same. Do you think it's scummy for someone to vote another for self preservation purposes only?

I didn't think skelda was scum, so.....?

I'm asking what is beli's scum motivation for not voting chaos.
Typically either alignment has self preservation, but usually town will be more looking for scum and stubborn about there reads to a determent to themselves

[farside22]

Mod: I don't need any extra time. Please don't add any.

I read the thread this afternoon when I noticed that there was a replacement request out. I can get more into all of my thoughts tomorrow (just about to go to bed right now) but will be plenty active before deadline and, crucially, Belisarius needs to be a world of dead.

VOTE: Belisarius, Lynch-1, claim and then die.

As I say, much fuller reads coming tomorrow but, in the meantime, my chief scumreads are Belisarius, Amy and acryon. I would also be willing to elect TobyLoby to actual, real-life political office and/or build statues thereto, such is the distance by which she is the towniest town around.

Seriously this is scummy shit.
I swear if beli flips town everyone needs to jump on this day 3.

[farside22]

Bird: when you said tomorrow and I saw 23 hours till deadline I thought you were talking day 3 to explain your reads and reasoning, that was what I found to be shit.
Titus hammer after saying nothing about either wagon looks hella scummy.

Jogger vote was surprising, I'm not sure what from bird lead to the vote after his question.

Titus moves up my scum list.

[farside22]

Reading through everything I still think CKD is town. He's right about old school tending to bus and I caught old school doing such.

Since I didn't see bird/bel scum together I'll think the most best point was bird

Vote: Amy

[farside22]

@Acyron, you can tell a lot by being silent and forcing players who have read the game to take a stand. I hammered when the last lurker came on.

If scum shot me, it would be a big indicator they liked the gamestate. The NakedJogger kill probably suggests scum want to focus on the hammer. That's a bet I will take.

VOTE: Scrambles

TBF I asked for your views on the wagon and thought it was a scum hammer. Bel's flipping scum was a bit of a wake up to me. I'm still curious to your views, why scramble?

[farside22]

@Farside, it is the argument you had Day 1 with Beli. He is right that replaceouts are null. Yet he includes a "serious vote" on you with his comments. That vote helps start a counterwagon to scrambles. It is a pretty strong chainsaw.

I also think Amy is likely town. Beli has said that scum tend to include a buddy in their lists. I doubt he has here.

I thought the counter wagon was chaos day 1.
Are you talking about the rvs start of the game?
In regards to Amy, mostly she tunneled on beli day 1 and 2 and that's about all I can recall from her. I can't tell you how often sitting on a vote and not providing much to the game state, gets ignored and player flips scum skating by.

Looking back over, it seems very likely that Chaos is with Beli. Here are some quotes to ponder.

In all honesty Beli never real came off as scummy to me. The cases that have been built against him especially TobyLoby's seem very shallow and to be honest I feel like scum is trying to maneuver a mislynch by trying to get Beli lynched. I say Beli is town

Looking back over, I can see how Beli seems to be having some scumy vibes but I still don't feel that he stands enough as scum for me to put my vote against him

Can you give me one more run down on why you feel Beli is scum?

Especially when looked at all together, it really looks like someone, although admittedly doing a rather poor job, ultimately trying to protect his buddy. Especially the second quote really speaks of that I think.

I still think scum bel would vote his scum buddy for town credit.
What did you think of bird's case?

[farside22]

I still think scum bel would vote his scum buddy for town credit.
What did you think of bird's case?

But I don't think Beli's overall play this game wouldn't follow that.

Bird's case on who, specifically?

Amy.

[farside22]

I'm going to put my own case today on Amy some of it is part impression and some is interaction.
I also think looking at those that beli didn't interact with would be good. I notice if not bussing, scum typically avoid interaction with scum buddy.
Toby: did you notice if beli interacted with his scum buddy?

[farside22]

I still think scum bel would vote his scum buddy for town credit.
What did you think of bird's case?

But I don't think Beli's overall play this game wouldn't follow that.

Bird's case on who, specifically?

Amy.

It's pretty good. Specifically, I really don't like Amy's complete disappearance at the end of D1. She seemed to get in at the beginning, rack up some town-cred, and back out. The fact that Beli mentioned the rule of 3 on Amy's 543 is very interesting, especially reading back over it now. It's also interesting that he mentioned the rule of three, and then rather than voting the one person who is definitely scum in his scenario (Amy), he went for the 50/50 (in his spot) of CKD/Chaos. The fact that he didn't push for Amy in that situation is certainly suspicious.

I'd be interested in hearing her thoughts today.

I'm not sure taking anything beli did as indicative of alignment is a smart move. He was very slippery from the start. (plus I have kind of a pr read on amy, so)

So who is your current scum read and why?

[farside22]

I noticed the convo about the dry fit kill and thought about beli's comment day 2.

I had a gut feeling dry might be a PR, but subtly enough I didn't expect scum to have the same thought. I was expecting someone more obvtown or threatening to die. On that basis, I expect to find scum in the players the tiny scumBeli perched on my shoulder would be most afraid of: farside, CKD, AFF, and Toby. I don't know which of them I'd rather lynch, so I'm open to suggestions from my townreads.

What sayeth the noble acrayon?

Either there was true or killed for WIFOM.
I've seen scum kill for many reasons so I don't always speculate on the death. Typically it's someone more town looking or PR hunting.

I'll be back later for my case.

[farside22]

CKD: I jumped to the last page and saw Toby's post and recalled someone said something earlier.
I think what your talking about is wifom, as no one but you, as far as I've read today, has mentioned NJ suspicion.
I forgot at the end of the day Nk was suspicious of chaos. He really just voted people and I never knew why.
As for dry, I followed his idea day 2 because it matched my thoughts.
I was pointing out bel's post because maybe it was a simple PR read that dry was targetted for.

[farside22]

Nk=nj
Damn auto correct.

[farside22]

The above is a wall post, read it anyway.

ADD kicked in reading large post.
Who are you scum reading currently?

[farside22]

Catching up

Interesting quote…I first read this and I think. Yeah Farside is right….then I think…why isn’t farside joining the Bel wagon at this point if she believes this?

I thought chaos was scum.

[farside22]

Mod: prod royal ape please. His last post was 11 days ago.

Sorry for the multi posting. I phone post and quoting is possible one page at a time.

prodded

[farside22]

Catching up

Interesting quote…I first read this and I think. Yeah Farside is right….then I think…why isn’t farside joining the Bel wagon at this point if she believes this?

I thought chaos was scum.

but in this post you also thought Bel was Chaos's scum buddy, right?

No. Reread question asked to others.

[farside22]

Someone who doesn't think chaos/beli are scum together need to sell me on scum motivation from beli not looking to self preserve

explain to me what you meant/were asking here farside. when you posted this, did you think bel and chaos are a scum team or not.

I meant to post who does, not doesn't.
I was asking those who had them as scum together thought it was scum motivation.

[farside22]

v/la till monday

I know I own this game a case. Ended up with some interviews and a family outing this weekend.

[farside22]

Well that was quite the read.

Not going to vote Amy.

@farside:

can you please explain (again?) why you don't think Chaos and Bel are a potential scum team? (I know you've said it, I'm just not sure if I caught why you think that.)


I do have a case and a vote to make. Will post it when I have the time (hopefully tonight).

From what I remember beli defended chaos and didn't vote for him.
I have noticed a growing trend where scum will defend the VI or the player that looks scummy and stay off the wagon, so the scum looks town when that player flips town.
Kind of like, hey I thought this player was town and scum's name doesn't go against the player for VCA types.

I'm a few pages behind and feel mental and emotionally drained. I'll get back to this game tomorrow.
Unless someone wants to be nice and give me highlights?

[farside22]

Green cryon: when this game ends, I would appreciate advice on how to make a proper case.
Your points and wording made me feel very inferior. Maybe it's because I get emotional when I post, I don't know.

Anyways that said the case from GC was well thought out. I wondered about one comment made.

Well, what about Beli? Blonde's got nothing to say about him, except for asking Amy to talk about her non-Beli suspicions (Post 83)

Do you think blond asked Amy about this on purpose?

Unvote

I need to think.

[farside22]

@farside:

I have noticed a growing trend where scum will defend the VI or the player that looks scummy and stay off the wagon, so the scum looks town when that player flips town.

This would also apply to scrambles' treatment of chaos. scrambles explicitly rejected Blonde's suspicion of chaos, and actively attempted to get chaos (and only chaos) onto the Beli-wagon.

Thoughts as to scrambles play in this regard?

I had null on scrabbled. I recall I asked him about why he asked about my tunneling on chaos and chose to comment about me doing something others had done.
Admitted I'm a few pages behind this game. When amy and CKD started going back and forth my ADD kicked in and I tuned it out mostly because it was hard to read.

I didn't even know how you were in this game till I read a page back.

[farside22]

Also something I ran across as I'm catching up. CKD had a case on amy based on interaction with beli.
I'm reading back mostly seeing the comment about Amy's self vote and acryon and CKD responding to it.
My thoughts is i get frustrated as town, but it takes a lot of attitude from others to reach the self loathing that Amy has just for a case on her.

[farside22]

I'm slowly convincing myself to replace out. I stopped having fun when CDB came in, he's a jerk, I'm taking this way too seriously and I have better things to do with my spare time than getting upset with morons on a message board.

On the other hand replacing out can be considered bad in my situation and no doubt someone will yell at me for it. Nevertheless if I get this annoyed/upset again I'm going.

I am very confused at this... You're acting like you have never played a game of mafia before and you are taking this all very personally for someone that has played before.

Let's make some things very clear. Whether CDB is right or wrong, or his reasoning is right or wrong, he is not a jerk for presenting a case.

This is a game.

Honestly, your response has done far more to convince me that you are scum than his case has, because it is very hard to believe that someone who has played mafia before would react so foolishly to someone calling them scum.

Why was Amy's response read scummy?

From my prospective Amy overreacted. She called cbd names, for reasons I'm unclear about, and attacked cbd for attacking her.

[farside22]

@acryon
ckd, ape, titus

Why are those players your scum read and why no vote?

And while I didnt think chaos was scum, delibird is reversing that.

Why?

I have massive arguments with players all the time. On my other site, im kinda known for it, and a lot of people call it detrimental.
however, normally in an argument like this I would say amy is town. Scum just dont argue this much or with such fervor.

I'm going to disagree. Anyone can fake arguments long enough to be previewed town.
More women I know are better at it then men.

[farside22]

Between Amy and scrabble. I see amy as emotional attacking cbd. I can't say for sure why she takes anything he said as personal.

Amy: CKD pointed out you made a case on beli and day 2 came in with this beli should have been lynches attitude. It reads scummy because you were not around to push the case and no one knows whether you are busy or purposely lurking. Does that make sense to you?
I'm wondering if you thought chaos and beli are both scum why you never switched to the chaos wagon?

[farside22]

so I am only skimming (dont have the time to do a deep dive atm)

farside, I think you mean CD had a case against Amy. Now I have asked her (along with others) a couple questions, but I am behind maybe 3-4 pages behind and not sure what has happened after Amy's "I am going to quit" post.

She calmed down a bit but she still thinks CKD is scum, not sure why, and as I said when she responded back the things she responded to was saying that cks was things that looked negative as scummy.

I don't see why the first issue he brings up is negative in a scummy way. I know scum bus, I think we have discussed this at length, but when you disappear and then come back day 2 after not pushing much at the end of day 1, how is anyone supposed to see it as town motive?

[farside22]

First off.
So freeeking happy to be on a computer instead of phone posting all these pages I'm behind.


scrambles this post tells me nothing about the why's or show's post that gives an example. For example where did this

He seems to agree with a lot of the things I say, and at other times he goes directly against them and tries to massage my opinions.He comes off as manipulative.

come from. I don't have a clue.
As for CBD. I read his views on Amy but I have forgot a lot about what he posted. Is there something in CBD's post worth noting for you?

Saw this from GC.

- I don't care for acryon's interaction with Titus. acryon has been slowly but consistently ramping up his beef with Titus (compare Post 877, where Titus's Beli-hammer "isn't exactly scummy" with Post 1083, where Titus has already started shifting his Titus-vote from a motivational vote into a voting-for-scum vote). And he's gone out of his way to get into conflict with Titus (Post 998 and Post 1003).

@Acryon can you please explain why you went from not seeing titus scummy to calling him out today? Yes I saw post 1099, just wondering why you called it out today and saw nothing wrong day 2.

I haven't read the longer posts on this page thoroughly yet but I'm now reasonably sure that acryon is my preferred lynch.

PEDIT: Increasingly sure.

Explain to me like I'm a child who doesn't get it. Just a peeve, I dislike when people throw out reads with no reasoning. It is null but I don't care about town reads (unless I'm scum reading the player) I care why X is scum and the one issue with Titus replacing is he voted for Chaos for VCA and then hammer Beli all while saying next nothing about why.
It does bother me when players do not explain there scum reads as I see it from scum as well.

I also would join a Farside wagon too (sorry dear, people who say you and CD are scum keep dying)

WIFOM is my friend.

Sorry but if you read my meta you know I tend to target those that are town reads first and then worry about those that see me scum second.

@Scrambles, I come with two modes. Serious and more serious.

@Acryon, I gave specifics. Scrambles is lying about being a noob and Channel is scumhunting despite his (mistaken) belief he has caught Amy scum. The votes reflect Amy is town.

You and scrambles doing the circle jerk defense isn't looking too good.

Limited activity due to work

There is only one scum left in the game!
Sorry but that's just silly. Anyone not scum hunting to look for the remaining two scum would be more suspicious then someone who believes they found scum and still scum hunt.
Please explain why in your view CBD still scum hunting is scummy?

Stopped at the end of page 46

[farside22]

Prod dodge.
I've had only few minutes to read things.
Tomorrow I can catch up.

[farside22]

Feel free to point me to any player in this game who has posted as many naked town-reads as she has.

A sample size of 'in this game' means nothing; you're saying that no town player goes around playing like that. If true, that would be a universal thing, and I'm saying that I see loads of players on this site with similar approaches - including Titus.

I typically find it scummy when it continues when asking for reason's and i get smart ass remarks. Like from Scrambles.

I do have one thing that is bugging me in the discussion from Acryon about Titus.

Acyron: Why did Nakedjoger's votes with no reasoning and nothing added to the game never come up while he was around as scummy?

Sorry, Amy, I think you've misunderstood what I was asking for. You mentioned that you have a history of responding a certain way as scum ("I actually try to play for my wincon in these situations rather than getting mad a town") and I'd like for you to point me to some examples of your history that back up that statement.

I have no history to back that up. I kind of just... said those things as I thought of them, without any backing or anything. Just please disregard all that, it's mostly rageposting.

Wow. Most of my townreads in this game haven't bern naked at all.

Y'all should realize acryonis very defensive for a guy with zero votes.

meh that is null tell.


Stopped on page 50.

Almost caught up!

[farside22]

Mod: v/la 3 days I need to get away from this place for a few days

[farside22]

second request for deadline extension please

will do my best to be around and finish my read. I feel myself calming down more and more and should be functional.

[farside22]

CDB scumhunting in his spot was why he isconftown to me. Yhat post alone looks like I say the opposite. Sorry for the confudion Farside.

Thanks for clarifying.

Acyron: Why did Nakedjoger's votes with no reasoning and nothing added to the game never come up while he was around as scummy?

There are a couple reasons for this. One is that NJ was actually voting. Even naked votes provide pressure, so they are actually doing something. Titus was just throwing out naked reads, which don't really do anything. They don't provide pressure, and they don't provide information or perspectives for the town to think about. The other reason is that I just wasn't looking at NJ in that way. I'm sure part of that is because he was actually voting, which does something, so I didn't think to look back over, but Titus' "empty" play caused me to go back through her ISO, which is where I identified what I did.

I just looked at there iso.
Naked voted and stated reads with no reasoning.
Titus actually explained a few of her town reads.
Also from what I gather titus put together some VCA for her reasoning. She is also asking questions and probing those she finds scummy so I'm very unclear as to why her read is scummy vs naked jogger who i feel reads the same way but with more votes.

I'm going to do one last iso on amy, scrambles and acryon before I vote. I will get on it if not tomorrow, Sunday.

Thanks for this:

Hope you get a good break, farside!

.

I'm definitely an emotional wreak, but I have had some interviews these past 2 weeks and some good and bad news in regards to medical insurance. Also don't get me started on trying to file for unemployment and those issues.

[farside22]

mod: please fix the links above

[farside22]

My 3 are amy, scramble and acryon.

[farside22]

If I had to narrow 2 two it would be amy/scrabbke based on interaction. Which is almost none.

[farside22]

General reads in iso:


Scramble:
this post makes no sense after reading this post smart player you replaced, but don't trust the reads. WFT
Then we have this post and the very next post this reads on chaos is very inconsistent.
while rereading the iso I have no clue why scramble vote beli
yeah he implied chaos was scum
why is this guy voting for beli
if scramble is scum, I don't see why he would attack beli over chaos
reading this is still voting beli, willing to back off, then after some back and forth still vote beli
gut feelingbleck peeve more then anything about gut feeling but never a good case, I disagree just from again a personal peeve POV.
Finally a reason meh it's about game play of expectations.
This bugs me on many levels i don't get why is chaos to scummy to be scum but Beli's play is just scummy?
I still never got a response to why my tunneling was questioned over others
making sense is scummy?!?! wft

What I find interesting in comparing the days is that scramble voted for beli pretty quickly but has voted no one at all today.
He has scum reads but no vote. Why?

Amy:

Day one start many questions from Amy.

this was amy's original vote and reasoning for Beli
I like this attack by amy toward's beli
rereading this I feel better about Amy more and more as town.
I think the reads changed, saving this while I check okay found it now.
what changed between with ckd?

I think with Amy the few things I didn't like was were she broke down for having votes on her. I know it's null but it was pretty unnecessary. I would say for the most part the attacked onto Beli feel more real and stronger with reasoning for each time she went after him.

Acryon:

fine with Beli's tunneling why when it really wasn't going anywhere else I don't get.
beli's null although he still hasn't not provided anything towards the game but tunneling.
I still feel this was someone trying to stay off beli
finally at the end doesn't like Beli's trolling
I don't know why skelda's reaction read scummy
between beli's and skelda
this to this is an interesting turn
I think the attitude about being questioned for his change is more towards the aggressive against ckd for no reason I can understand
I really dislike people who say things like this how does he know he will be alive?
meh
is this read still valid?
nope, why the change?
if true feeling why did beli not get put under the same umbrella?

stopped here for a break. I'm taking Amy off my scum list upon review but Acryon and Scrambles currently stay there. I do want to finish acryon and do a review of CBD before the day ends.

[farside22]

Hm. Pretty confident on two of (scrambles, acryon, CKD) as the final scummies. I think this day has revealed a lot.

I agree, but certainly not what you think it has. I think that at-most 1 of those three are scum, and even then both of them are very low on my list.

wait, you are one of those 3?...this was a weird way to address this post.

I see why you would say that but I was just addressing the content in an objective manner.

Acryon:
fine with Beli's tunneling why when it really wasn't going anywhere else I don't get.

I think I already explained this, but I think pressure is good, and I thought initially Beli's tunneling provided good pressure, but at a certain point constant pressure can become counter-productive, which I think his did.

I really dislike people who say things like this how does he know he will be alive?

This is an interesting thing to nitpick. There was

one

vote on me, meaning we would have needed 7 more. How can you possibly believe that there would be enough traction to accumulate 7 votes in < 6 hours. And not only that, but most of them would have to be switchers, which is even harder. Additionally, town tends to not feel too good about wagons that build up and move that fast, so they never happen. So why would I pretend it was a possibility when it clearly wasn't?

is this read still valid?
nope, why the change?

I addressed this actually just a couple posts later. Either CKD had a very very strong conviction concerning Beli being town, or he was his scum-buddy. I was more certain that it was the former, but I thought it was worth pointing out that the latter could be a possibility.

578 from CKD also read very genuine to me, which made me think that CKD probably

did

genuinely believe that Beli was town and/or strongly disliked my reads on Beli.

if true feeling why did beli not get put under the same umbrella?

It seems kind of crazy to try and put Chaos and Beli under the same umbrella. They played completely differently. Chaos played newbie/inattentive. Beli played trolly. If Chaos is scum, they are each scum for different reasons, so it doesn't make any sense to me to try and apply the same logic about Beli to Chaos.

-----------------------------------------

What do you think of 485, which was super on-point? Also, pretty much my entire case on Beli day 2. This question goes to CDB as well, who apparently thinks I was riding a hard fence all day 2.

Can you quote where you thought Beli's tunneling was productive?

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion I'm discussing you being lynched. I was talking about being alive the next day. Why would you think you would be alive to talk about it?
For me looking between Beli and Chaos one being trolling while the other being lurky. Neither was really providing reads that were of any standard. Unfortunately I have seen trolling a lot from both town and scum so I was wondering why this trolling from Beli was scummy while chaos was read as inattentive?

[farside22]

I maybe missing this, but I don't see it directly.
Acryon: What is your read on scramble?

[farside22]

Can you quote where you thought Beli's tunneling was productive?

While I don't necessarily think Beli is going about it the perfect way, I think he is at least tunneling in a good direction. Offering essentially useless input can be both scum trying to appear helpful or newb town trying to be helpful with bad input. Given that farside is far from a newbie, I'm definitely suspicious of her offering such a bad argument. You have to admit: especially for a very experienced player, that argument really sucked.

And I think this quote actually explains the whole situation pretty well, and it was actually a response to you already:

I don't see why the tunneling is good.
He's holding onto something that has been explained to death and I don't recall why he thinks this is scummy or mentioned anything else relevant I recall. How long do you think his tunnelling and lack of input becomes more then null?

While I tend to not prescribe to that kind of tunneling, I have seen plenty of games where tunneling on someone's funky comments has lead to crucial scum-slips. That being said, I do think he got off-track and has, as you said, not really provided much outside of that. This certainly makes like the tunneling a lot less looking back., but he is still null to me.
I have trolling and lurking under the same category. Both read scummy but can be from town. Have you seen scum trolling before?

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion I'm discussing you being lynched. I was talking about being alive the next day. Why would you think you would be alive to talk about it?

Well I don't think it's necessary to preface every statement about the future of the game with "assuming I'm alive". That's kind of implicit already. If anything, I've seen scum use those kinds of qualifiers to make it seem like their future is uncertain.

For me looking between Beli and Chaos one being trolling while the other being lurky. Neither was really providing reads that were of any standard. Unfortunately I have seen trolling a lot from both town and scum so I was wondering why this trolling from Beli was scummy while chaos was read as inattentive?

Because Chaos wasn't trolling? Trolling =/= lurking. Neither are inherently scummy, but the way Beli was trolling as a defense was really ugly.

I saw this differently. Beli attacked my view with inaccurate reasoning. He focused on the replacement, not the second part of my statement, which I felt was to undermind me.
That was why I asked what was productive, when his counter point was wrong.

[farside22]

I like scrambles response to the pressure. Still not sure about the inconsistency of acryon.
I still see no difference between NJ and Titus.

Scramble: Why is titus a scum read (sorry if I missed it) and what is your thoughts on Acryon?

[farside22]

I think if acryon's scum, it probably isn't with Amy or Scrambles. In 390, there's a pivotal point where he could have voted Beli or Skelda, since both wagons were at 4 people, and he chose to vote Beli. The cost-benefit of a double bus on day 1 is not high (and reducing the number of total scum increases the potential usefulness of Jailkeeper, also), and so I'm really doubting your scumteam call.

For similar reasons, I don't think that Amy and Scrambles particularly go together well as a team. If they are, it's probably a pregame planned strategy to bus the most MS-experienced player. And I just don't see that being too likely.

You call them a scumteam rather than your top individual suspects. What links them in your mind?

Very much disagreeing. Bussing give's town credit. I do think Amy was more about questioning motives and putting thoughts together, where as scrambles was saying nothing new and acryon just felt like buddying up to ckd and myself through the day.
I think looking into day 2, scum figured Beli would be put up and just went with bussing that day.

Titus: Did you ever check into scrambles meta?

I won't have time till tomorrow to double check ckd.

note to self:I think I have a meta read on CKD, but I need to check into this before I do anything else.

[farside22]

I was reffering to this and I know later you had a lean to scum read on skelda.

Call me easy to convince, but that analysis makes Skelda look

really

bad. Interested to hear the response.

I believe the fight happened after you felt strongly about ckd and I think rereading it was based on ckd's belief that skelda was scum and you thought he was scum but voted beli after.

[farside22]

Thing No.1 (i.e. the only one that really springs to mind right now but, who knows, there might be more later): @CKD

CKD, as I've said before, I think it's very good that you're looking at nightkills but I want to state again my strong belief that you have drawn the wrong conclusion. I don't think that the main thing implied by the kills is that scum are trying to silence people who suspect farside.

You are ignoring what seems to me the most important part of the nightkill analysis - that Dry-Fit flipped Jailkeeper.

two

3 points and then I really got to to go back to work.

1.) the two dead people thought farside AND YOU(chaos) was scummy.

2.) If I AM on the right track, what would CDBscum say right now? Something similar?

3.) Who cares if Dry-Fit flipped a PR? I went back and reread him I dont see anything that remotely looked like a crumb. or a play that looked like how a typical PR would play...or anything that screamed I AM OBVIOUSLY A PR! I think scum got lucky on that kill.

I feel like pointing out Beli's post again about his read on dry-fit.
Lucky, probably. But if beli's comment was there for wifom.

[farside22]

Thing No.1 (i.e. the only one that really springs to mind right now but, who knows, there might be more later): @CKD

CKD, as I've said before, I think it's very good that you're looking at nightkills but I want to state again my strong belief that you have drawn the wrong conclusion. I don't think that the main thing implied by the kills is that scum are trying to silence people who suspect farside.

You are ignoring what seems to me the most important part of the nightkill analysis - that Dry-Fit flipped Jailkeeper.

two

3 points and then I really got to to go back to work.

1.) the two dead people thought farside AND YOU(chaos) was scummy.

2.) If I AM on the right track, what would CDBscum say right now? Something similar?

3.) Who cares if Dry-Fit flipped a PR? I went back and reread him I dont see anything that remotely looked like a crumb. or a play that looked like how a typical PR would play...or anything that screamed I AM OBVIOUSLY A PR! I think scum got lucky on that kill.

I feel like pointing out Beli's post again about his read on dry-fit.
Lucky, probably. But if beli's comment

maybe

was there for wifom.

fixed in bold.

[farside22]

I'm going for whom I currently have a scum read on and hope I have time tomorrow for more.

vote: Acryon

[farside22]

I realized I missed this from ckd

I really want to hear why GC in particular was led to unvote, but a word from farside on why she felt it looks more likely town than scum would be welcome as well. Honestly, assuming you give Scrambles enough credit to at least make the effort as scum, I'm not exactly sure what you would have expected to see done differently in some of those posts.

I would say I felt better as in that he responded in the haste he did. If I told you the number of times I have attacked a scum player just to see them lurk like a fiend while people fought or lurk in general in hopes someone else would do something scummy I think I would be physically ill to my stomach at how often it occurs. It actually pisses me off more then anything, but regardless it gives scrambles a thoughtful keep an eye on. Where as I feel I am missing something with acryon when he responds. The miss reads, the case on Titus, which I would say should have been said about NJ I don't care what you add on, both players acted the same. I find acryon's scum tell is nothing but a fraud.

[farside22]

Another thing that hit me as I was reading things, I recall acryon mentioned scrambles non response as troublesome, but when I brought up chaos lurking he gave the guy a pass do to chaos having mentioned issues.
This dinged me a bit because I have looked and scrambles is not a proflic poster in this game. I wonder why one player gets an excuse while the other is troublesome.

It is always those little things that bug me.

[farside22]

Incidentially I think scrambles Post 1381 is an incoherent use of buzzwords.

Like, I don't even know what he's saying with "What kind of scumhunting is that, to point out such a meta-tell that isn't even based in fact. It's not. It's simply moving with momentum. It's fake."

But that sentence uses "scumhunting," "meta" "momentum" and "fake," all letting me know that I shouldn't like what's happening even if I don't really understand just what in the world scrambles is saying.

I think the one part of that post that makes no sense is why he is saying it is a meta tell.

Also I just realized scramble has been on MS since 2010 and this is only his second game here?

[farside22]

I saw most of the back and forth with GC/Scrambles.

The long and short is I sometimes note people I think are PR's as part of trying to figure alignment's but I don't tell people I think X is a PR. I have seen players who say X is either a PR or scum, which I think many people find scummy and bad.

mod: I am voting acryon

I know there is a few things more to address and I will get it done today.

[farside22]

@farside:

I tried looking at your ISO last night for your acryon-based reasoning, but it was late and you mentioned him a lot -- and also in a conflicting manner (first you said acryon might be scum if chaos flipped red; later you said you thought acryon was no longer suspicious; and then even later still you put him back in your scum pile).

Could you either boil down your case to acryon to a few points or point me to your previous posts which you think best state your case against him?

My scum read with acryon boils down to his reasons he is scum reading players and buddying.
The reads are inconsistent. Titus vs Nj for example.
I need to recheck his comments about scramble. I thought he had scramble as null-scum but I maybe thinking of the wrong player.
Since the case acryon posted on Titus, titus has offered more information, I don't recall any interaction there after.

There is stuff I need to verify.

[farside22]

The vote count still shows you voting titus, acryon, unless I missed the back off? I know the vote count is currently wrong.

Vote Count 3.09

Titus: (2) acryon, scrambles
scrambles: (4) Titus, Riddleton, ChannelDelibird, Green Crayons
ChannelDelibird: (2) Amy Farrah Fowler, Curiouskarmadog

Not Voting: Kalimar, Farside22

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-10-18 20:47:00)

Mod Notes:
None

Also I had a post with I saw similarities
here and what I saw with titus please post.

[farside22]

Also posting terrible is more in a prospective.
I thought chaos post was terrible, acyron disagreed.
NJ posted nothing as far as reasoning which tells me nothing about the player.
Titus had some one liners but fought for what she see's in her post.

[farside22]

So all this is bad from titus:

@Kalimar, time since registration is just a number. I had a year on my belt. You're making things too complicated. Sometimes the most experienced player can be just getting in the way.

Scrambles play has been all about obfuscation rather than clarity. I call out Scrambles. Acyron starts chainsawing on his behalf while being waffley about his read on Scrambles. Acryon telegraphed an about face from the end of the day yesterday to today.

GG. Scum caught.

Acryon, walling tends to turn people off. Your attacking on me began after I called scrambles on his experience obfuscation. You both have just repeated the same questions over and over, even after I'm done answering them. I may find walling uneffective but I rarely naked vote. I'm relatively confident you both are scum.

@Channel, join us on scrambles. We can do Acryon tomorrow. We cannot lynch both scum in a single day.

@Acryon can you please explain why you went from not seeing titus scummy to calling him out today? Yes I saw post 1099, just wondering why you called it out today and saw nothing wrong day 2.

Sure thing. At the point that day 2 ended, Titus only had 8 posts, so it wouldn't make any sense to have a problem with her posting at that point, but she has posted 30+ times since then. Once she started posting more day 3 is when I recognized what I did as a pattern.

You mean a pattern of hunting you and scrambles? Your post deliberately leaves out what this pattern is making it vague and worthless. It also encourages the reader to fill ina hypothetical pattern and you could agree to anything.

@Scrambles, I come with two modes. Serious and more serious.

@Acryon, I gave specifics. Scrambles is lying about being a noob and Channel is scumhunting despite his (mistaken) belief he has caught Amy scum. The votes reflect Amy is town.

You and scrambles doing the circle jerk defense isn't looking too good.

Limited activity due to work

Why?

If someone looks to being lying about there experience, you don't wonder why they are lying or misleading?

Also posting terrible is more in a prospective.
I thought chaos post was terrible, acyron disagreed.
NJ posted nothing as far as reasoning which tells me nothing about the player.
Titus had some one liners but fought for what she see's in her post.

Different kind of terrible. There is newb-terrible(Chaos), and there is scum-terrible(Titus).

What is the difference? Seriously chaos had no fucking case. Hell he read lost but I have see newb scum lost many a time. Titus attacked you. That is the only thing I can think of that is different between naked and titus.
Both had one liners. Neither explained shit (more so Nj then Titus)
I don't believe your, this is scummy action from titus, because it has not been something you have attacked this game till now

[farside22]

What is the case in cbd, that has nothing to do with chaos?

[farside22]

Well my vote seems to go no where and the cbd "case" is pretty lacking.

Vote: scrambles

[farside22]

okay here, got 20 minutes to read...going to read..

also saw this.

What is the case in cbd, that has nothing to do with chaos?

you following the thread closely or just skimming?

Currently skimming.
Something's I read, long cases I skim, except the case GC put on scramble.

[farside22]

okay here, got 20 minutes to read...going to read..

also saw this.

What is the case in cbd, that has nothing to do with chaos?

you following the thread closely or just skimming?

Currently skimming.
Something's I read, long cases I skim, except the case GC put on scramble.

Then you're really in no position to call something a "case" or dismiss other notions.

I asked GC and it was more about chaos, wifom and gut.

note to self:I think I have a meta read on CKD, but I need to check into this before I do anything else.

ummm farside? i thought you were going to do this....if it was indeed a good meta, dont you think it is important to get this in today?

if it was a bad one, why arent you following up on it today? You did say you needed to check it before doing anything else, else you are doing other things, I assumed you checked it? what did you find? or maybe you decided to leave it alone because...

was this really a note to self farside or are you just laying ground work for tomorrow? Why even make this comment? If you are that worried about me, just kill me tonight, this town is clearly not worried about night kills. And when you get attacked tomorrow, you can always say "well obviously he was killed because of (this) post, clearly I am being framed"

and you completely let this go without addressing it.

Thing No.1 (i.e. the only one that really springs to mind right now but, who knows, there might be more later): @CKD

CKD, as I've said before, I think it's very good that you're looking at nightkills but I want to state again my strong belief that you have drawn the wrong conclusion. I don't think that the main thing implied by the kills is that scum are trying to silence people who suspect farside.

You are ignoring what seems to me the most important part of the nightkill analysis - that Dry-Fit flipped Jailkeeper.

two

3 points and then I really got to to go back to work.

1.) the two dead people thought farside AND YOU(chaos) was scummy.

2.) If I AM on the right track, what would CDBscum say right now? Something similar?

3.) Who cares if Dry-Fit flipped a PR? I went back and reread him I dont see anything that remotely looked like a crumb. or a play that looked like how a typical PR would play...or anything that screamed I AM OBVIOUSLY A PR! I think scum got lucky on that kill.

I feel like pointing out Beli's post again about his read on dry-fit.
Lucky, probably. But if beli's comment was there for wifom.

also what is your point here?

Me: I think farside and Chaos could be scum because someone died that thought both of them are scum.
Bel: Uh, I actually think that someone was killed because he looked like a PR
Farside: look Bel mentioned that this kill was because they thought he was a PR

lets break it down

Me: I think farside and Chaos could be scum because someone died that thought both of them are scum.
Bel: Oh shit CKD is catching on, I better say something to shoot that theory out of the water before my partners get heat.
Farside: Look, my partner even said it was something else...see nothing to see here.

Farside, WHy would Bel provide that information? nobody asked him what his thoughts on the NKs were...interesting that he chose to say this when he did. He was trying to say he thought I was scum...he kept saying I was buddying up with him. "Look everybody, CKD is scum...but let me address this one statement he made with some seriousness and explain why I think it was wrong."


come on now...

still reading.

okay here, got 20 minutes to read...going to read..

also saw this.

What is the case in cbd, that has nothing to do with chaos?

you following the thread closely or just skimming?

Currently skimming.
Something's I read, long cases I skim, except the case GC put on scramble.

I will make it easy on you...read my response to GC..then comment.

I ended up busy with a few interviews and my hubby took me out yesterday as a surprise pre b-day celebration.

Off the top of my head I thought cbd lurked as scum. I have not verified the meta.

As for your comment to GC, I'll check for it shortly.

My vote on scramble is for 2 reasons, 1) no one else is voting acryon (2)deadline is coming up in a few hours and a no lynch is not helpful.

And the little wants my phone, so the check of post to GC will not happen.

[farside22]

VOTE: CKD

Although the AtE doesn't sit well with me, I'm fairly sure acryon isn't scum.

I disagree

Vote: acryon

[farside22]

As for Farside, Beli attacked them had day 1 for going after the scrambles slot.

Beli acted super righteous in pursuing farside, as if his cause against farside was handed down from above.

Totally bus material.

The point beli had against me was wrong. I even called him on it.

[farside22]

Conversely, when CKD finally pipes up, he states that scrambles is suspicious and then keeps hitting that note throughout the rest of the day. However, he never goes so far to actually vote to pursue that suspicion, and instead makes weird excuses for not voting scrambles as the deadline was approaching.


VOTE: CKD

just so everyone is clear...you think as scum and a veteran, I (in the face of a certain scrambles lynch) was trying to delay in voting him...because? you think my lack of well anything at the end of the day, yesterday was a ruse? when I flip town, will you immediately pursue the Amy lynch instead? how do you feel about CDB case yesterday? you agree with or not?

and lets be clear here, I still think Amy is town. I am just wondering if by this post you are setting up your moves tomorrow, so no one will be surprised.

I know this was said but self meta is awful.
I look at why x is doing as town. Then what I expect from scum.

Like with yesterday's lynch on scramble, I don't think scum was on scramble.
There was 10 players left, that means scum has to fight through 8 town to win.

Safest scum play on D3 would be to not kill your remaining scum partner, but not to follow your likely-to-be-lynched partner on another wagon. That narrows my focus to Amy and CKD.

Well yeah, I've also said myself on #1664 albeit with different wording. I also can't see both scum piling onto one wagon, for bad reasons, at a stage in the game where it's inevitable where Scrambles would get lynched.

---

Titus

, thoughts on #1689 please. Do you agree with my thoughts regarding acryon, or do you think he's deliberately trying to setup a false case on you, so he could (presumably) back down later saying "Oh, I didn't know that was playstyle"? The latter isn't a likely option to me, so I would appreciate your thoughts.

CKD

, enough with the "As a very experienced player I would/wouldn't do XYZ" defence.

I disagree with that, see above and the stats scum put them self against.

[farside22]

Green Crayons

, why farside over Amy?

Briefly, because I don't have the time to make a thorough case:

- Looking over Amy's interaction with scrambles' slot, she doesn't really come across as a scum partner. I think Blonde's softball questions to her are iffy, but that doesn't necessarily reflect suspicion on Amy as it can easily be chalked up to Blonde just trying to look engaged. Amy's sudden break of communication with the slot as soon as scrambles replaced in is weird, but goes further to show that it was Blonde that was pushing for a connection with Amy, rather than the other way around. Thus, out of Amy v. farside, Amy looks good.

- I really don't like Beli's hard push against farside out of the gate. If that's all there was to the situation, then whatever, fine. But it was a hard push against someone attacking his scummate Blonde, on what farside hadn't exactly claimed was a basis to lynch Blonde, just a basis for an early D1 vote. It's just a very weird situation, and one that doesn't sit comfortably with me.

- Even recognizing the fact that farside has had IRL issues, farside has used a lot of her activity simply being "catchup" posts. These look active, but they're not necessarily big on engagement -- it's much easier to look productive without gaining much suspicion by commenting on something that has already passed out of the thread's collective consciousness. I have seen scum use this tactic in recent games that I have played.

- farside is also just difficult to read for me, which makes me inherently suspicious of her play.

I work better one on one with people.
I tend to focus on one person and tune out noise. Part of it is ADD.

As for CKD: I had felt with his questions he thought I was scum with cbd. I really didn't get why based in interaction I had with chaos.

@gc: do you know what the vote count was before I voted scramble?

My issue with acryon is his scum read reasoning doesn't match up with what he has said through the game.
Also I have seen scum doulbe buss day 1, I never rule that out.

[farside22]

@gc: do you know what the vote count was before I voted scramble?

Yup:

Vote Count 3.11

Titus: (2) acryon,

scrambles

acryon: (1) Farside22
ChannelDelibird: (3) Curiouskarmadog ,

Kalimar

, Amy Farrah Fowler

scrambles

: (4)

Titus

,

Riddleton

, ChannelDelibird,

Green Crayons

Not Voting:

Thank you, I was going to search this today.

Okay so the original case was by GC for scramble, titus voted for him due to VCA. Those are 2 I feel more likely town based on the beli lynch and numbers I discussed.

Riddle I recall did fight for scramble and acryon (both if I am correct, if wrong let me know this is more from what I recall).
The one I don't remember is why CDB voted for scrambles.
On the off wagon you have kalimar (confrimed town) ckd and amy. This is on the bigger wagon.

I'm assuming self preservation from CDB till I reread why he voted. With the rules of the vote count any switch to CDB may have helped scramble did not happen, from scrambles or anyone else.
I wonder why that didn't happen. Why wouldn't scrambles save himself and just vote for CDB?

Titus: thoughts about this would help me. I have that did scum do X moment based on the wagon analysis moment.

[farside22]

acryon in brief:

Non-committal in the extreme on Days 1 and 2, picked up when I pointed out as much - his greater investment in Doing Something has resulted in vocal support (but no actual vote) on Amy wagon and now the Titus wagon.

That Titus wagon is built on fundamentally flawed reasoning - it's along the same lines as Beli's vote on farside from way back in as much as it's proclaiming "behaviour X is not good for the town! Righteously, I thee vote!", which is a kind of case that scum prefer because it can be portrayed as objectively helpful even if not successful - and does not consider her relationship to the flipped scum in any visible way.

Those are the main things. To that I would add this: I don't really understand how we got from "Amy is my biggest scum-read" BEFORE her massive blow-up in reaction to her wagon, which acryon found scummier than most, to the point now where he is "not confident enough" on her alignment to consider a vote for her, given that acryon had not substantively discussed Amy for around 200 posts in between. His whole conduct around that Amy wagon, supporting it with everything apart from an oddly missing vote to completely failing to address it during its crumble, is scummy.

Conclusion: Scum.

---

Scrambles:

First things first, I'm properly reading over GC's case in 1060 for the first time and I have a lot of time for the way it's put together. I don't agree with everything in it (some of the Blonde c) parts, for instance) but it asks a lot of questions worth asking. The Beli connections look pretty good for both players to have occupied the slot. As of the end of the post, I am sold.

Scrambles's response to it isn't great. First he does exactly the thing that Beli did after I replaced in and voted for him, which is compliment the case "even though it's wrong". Then he just defuses it without explaining himself and complains that he wasn't asked direct questions, as if that somehow makes it impossible for him to engage.

Conclusion: Scum.

---

Riddleton's basically fine; not bothering here Today. Ordinarily I'd go into detail but I'd rather go to bed.

Either one of the two is a good lynch for me Today, and we may not need that deadline extension after all. This game seems a lot clearer than it did a few hours ago.

UNVOTE: acryon
VOTE: Scrambles

I'm wondering why CDB picked scramble over acryon with these two points.
Not a very strong case.

acryon/Scrambles

He has the pair as scum but today's comment had me scratching my head a bit.

Well, I'd be lying if I said I was confident by the time I left things Yesterday that Scrambles would flip scum but it does helpfully reassure me that I'm not being a complete idiot. That said, if the worst comes to the worst we do at least have time for anyone who can't get over Chaos to get it out of your systems. Rather not, though.

Need to look over Belisarius and Scrambles again but the flips don't make me

not

want to start with a thorough look at acryon again, even bearing in mind my crisis of confidence Yesterday.

I never saw anything that seemed unsure by you. Can you explain where or why you felt doubt?

[farside22]

Mod: v/la till Tuesday 10/28

[farside22]

Hey kids, I will be around tomorrow a bit. I want to get on the computer to go over GC's case on me.

I saw a few things about beli, but all I recall about day 1 and day 2 is having him only scum list, but was more focused on chaos at the time. I remember feeling frustrated at the time how chaos seemed to skate by with so little but being defended by others.

I think GC mentioned my vote on scrambles (this is what I read briefly). I did not read the rules about most votes being lynched. I wasn't confident in the scrambles lynch and voted because I thought it would be a no lynch.

I'll read theough everything else I missed tomorrow

[farside22]

Phoneposting

You definitely didn't look anywhere near hard enough, farside

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6305080 here is me getting paranoid end of Yesterday for the same reason you brought up just now - scrambles and acyron both sitting on that dead-end Titus vote rather than push me as a more viable alternative.

Sorry phone posting and interruptions. Yah the paranoia makes me feel better about you.

@Farside
You still think I am scum? Can you break-down why WITH quotes, because in the past it has been based on feelings or interactions that didn't actually happen the way you remembered. I want to be sure this gets taken care of so I don't have to worry about convincing you later when we have a wagon on scum going.

I'll get to this in a separate post.

Green Crayons

, why farside over Amy?

Briefly, because I don't have the time to make a thorough case:

- Looking over Amy's interaction with scrambles' slot, she doesn't really come across as a scum partner. I think Blonde's softball questions to her are iffy, but that doesn't necessarily reflect suspicion on Amy as it can easily be chalked up to Blonde just trying to look engaged. Amy's sudden break of communication with the slot as soon as scrambles replaced in is weird, but goes further to show that it was Blonde that was pushing for a connection with Amy, rather than the other way around. Thus, out of Amy v. farside, Amy looks good.

- I really don't like Beli's hard push against farside out of the gate. If that's all there was to the situation, then whatever, fine. But it was a hard push against someone attacking his scummate Blonde, on what farside hadn't exactly claimed was a basis to lynch Blonde, just a basis for an early D1 vote. It's just a very weird situation, and one that doesn't sit comfortably with me.

- Even recognizing the fact that farside has had IRL issues, farside has used a lot of her activity simply being "catchup" posts. These look active, but they're not necessarily big on engagement -- it's much easier to look productive without gaining much suspicion by commenting on something that has already passed out of the thread's collective consciousness. I have seen scum use this tactic in recent games that I have played.

- farside is also just difficult to read for me, which makes me inherently suspicious of her play.

I want to add the following:

My vote on scramble is for 2 reasons, 1) no one else is voting acryon (2)deadline is coming up in a few hours and a no lynch is not helpful.

This comment is suspicious for two reasons.


(1) farside, like myself, was under the misconception that a failure to get a majority at the time of the deadline would result in a no lynch. (CKD pointed out my misconception of the actual rule at the beginning of today.) Therefore, farside-scum would be under the impression that her vote would actually contribute to scrambles' lynch (it wouldn't, because scrambles already had the most votes on him, and it didn't look like CDB was going to be surpassing scrambles' vote count per Post 1625).

farside had adamently refused to vote Beli on D1 and D2 -- even though Beli had pursued farside with an unnatural conviction and self-cetainty, and with a case that farside has herself said was really bad -- and so has been lacking in town cred. One way to up her cred would be to join the wagon on the sinking ship of a scummate. Hence, the late vote on the scrambles wagon.


(2) farside had commented extensively about her suspicions of scrambles. See: Post 1065, Post 1071, Post 1262, Post 1309, Post 1345, Post 1346, Post 1353, and Post 1419.

Despite this lengthy love affair with suspecting scrambles, farside failed to put a vote down on scrambles until the deadline was hours away.

But here's what really bothers me: in Post 1640, farside justifies her late-wagon vote on scrambles because nobody else would vote acryon, and the deadline was approaching. . . . Really, that's it? Absolutely

nothing

from the 8 posts where she voiced or agreed with scrambles suspicions contributed to her scrambles vote?

I was trying to think why a farside wouldn't at least point to her previous scrambles suspicions, regardless of farside's alignment. Then it hit me: farside had completely disowned her scrambles suspicions based solely off of scrambles' response under pressure (see Post 1396 and Post 1451).

I personally experienced a similar – but not identical – reaction. I also had doubts about my scrambles vote after scrambles' response, but was talking my way through it and actually revoted scrambles after he did another scummy thing. (Yes, I also then unvoted again, based off of perpetual self-doubt, but once again, I was open about trying to work through my stance.)

farside, however, did none of this. She was flirting with a scrambles vote, and then killed her scrambles suspicions completely in one fell swoop. It would look contradictory and messy if farside were to suddenly revive those suspicions hours before the deadline – a deadline farside thought meant would spell a no lynch if she didn't join the scrambles wagon. Scum don't want to look contradictory and messy. Hence, farside's avoidance of her previous scrambles suspicions when justifying her late-wagon scrambles vote makes her vote clean and simple -- but also artifically detatched from the actual history of the game. Thus, the basis for farside's vote on scrambles appears to originate from a scum alignment.

1) I did not refuse to vote beli. I said the following day 1 here about my scum reads I had chaos and beli as day 1.
I felt doubt later because beli's lack of claim. I would think scum would fake claim day 1 given they know of there are PR's out there.

2) I felt suspicion about both scrambles and acryon. That has not changed one iota. Just one of those things is I hate following others. I tend to make my own reads and push what I see unless I see something that makes me want to jump onto someone else. It's a personality thing I have. Mostly lack of trust in others and my own sense of pride.
Scrambles came back and fought, which I stated here
I'm not sure why this is scummy to you, when you felt the same way here but more about frustrated town
You call it flirting, I say stubborn.

Mod: v/la till Tuesday 10/28

If I told you the number of times I have attacked a scum player just to see them lurk like a fiend while people fought or lurk in general in hopes someone else would do something scummy I think I would be physically ill to my stomach at how often it occurs.

Go fuck yourself.
That is about the nicest way I can say it.

(shrug)

I didn't check to see what farside is doing in other games. It's just another example of when I've seen her point out scum behavior that would point to her being scum.

Example:

I still think scum bel would vote his scum buddy for town credit.

I also think looking at those that beli didn't interact with would be good. I notice if not bussing, scum typically avoid interaction with scum buddy.

VOTE: farside22

That is not a random vote.

Still liking CKD, farside, and AFF for scum, in that order.

Wow misquoting things in order to make a point.
I'm sorry was there a wagon on me day 1 that would have gone to be lynched based on the crap reason I missed there?
Was there a reason that Beli thought I was scum for a good reason? No. He was trying to use a crap reason to lynch a player. But hey let me know why you think misquoting in the order you did makes things fact there as to what happened.

Are you really trying to misconstrue farside's V/LA as scummy?

See Post 1768. See also:

- Even recognizing the fact that farside has had IRL issues, farside has used a lot of her activity simply being "catchup" posts. These look active, but they're not necessarily big on engagement -- it's much easier to look productive without gaining much suspicion by commenting on something that has already passed out of the thread's collective consciousness. I have seen scum use this tactic in recent games that I have played.

Ten bucks says she will be doing another catch up post.

I'm not saying her V/LA is fabricated. I'm saying that going absent and then coming back with a serious of catch up posts -- and this is her habitual play this game, not a one-time event -- is aligned with scum play.


Want to try to justify your vote on me?

Okay, seriously go fuck yourself.

I'm going to say this once only.

I'm in a pretty bad spot, lost my job yesterday.
I'll be taking a few days to sort stuff out.

Mod: V/la till Tuesday

noted

Do you know what that does to a person? Do you know that before that moment I was active in this game? Did you fucking look back at my posting prior at all?
I have been coming to this game when I can and when I have time. I'm sorry my loss of job and going on job interviews and dealing with RL issues is hard for you to understand why I'm in catch up, but even when I have stated a V/LA it is typically LA because I don't know how crazy my day will be and how tired I will be at the end of the day.
I do what I think is considerate to the mod in case I can't get online while I'm dealing with many things going on at home and even doing job interviews.
Im sorry I actually read through the game and respond. I can always just post one fucking liners and never respond to anything said if you want.
Would you prefer that?


I'll be back after I cooled down.

[farside22]

@farside:

1) You never voted Beli, so linking to a post where you didn't vote him doesn't exactly undercut my point. You did say that you thought one of Beli/chaos was scum. But just saying that, and then only voting chaos out of the two, does not net you townpoints.

That was not what you stated originally.
You stated I was against a beli lynch day 1.


I didn't ask for a town read based on my comment, I was disputing your inaccurate comment.

2) My problem with your interaction with scrambles is not that you suspected him. It's that you suspected him, then dropped that suspicion, then (and here's where the suspicion arises) when you voted him again hours before deadline and was asking about that vote, you only justified that vote on the basis of avoiding a no lynch -- without mentioning any of your prior suspicions.

I forgot about him. I tend to forget people when I tunnel and someone smacks me.

3) Your hostility isn't warranted. I've never said that you're lying about the bases for your V/LA, and I think that it's genuine. It sucks that your real life is hectic and hitting some lows. But repeatedly going quiet and then -- and this is the important part -- doing catchup posts as a major part of your presence in this game is alignment indicative. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Until you can explain why I was communicating with others at the start of the game and interacting, to posting less and in catch as anything but being fucking busy in life my hostility towards this point stands.

]4) It isn't misquoting when I'm literally quoting exactly what you said? Also, you keep hammering that Beli-scum was pushing your lynch based off of a bad reason. This cuts against you being town for two reasons: (1) Beli-scum bussing hard against a teammate can be to self-implode, thereby making the other teammate look good when the busser dies. Beli acted weird all game. I don't put it past him to have pushed hard against a fellow scum for bad reasons with the foresight of him getting lynched before his teammate. (2) You've hit hard several times about just how horrible Beli-scum's push was on you. And yet you never actually voted him for it. Scummy.

Let's use facts instead if fiction. You used a quote I stated pages pruor to beli's vote on me and made it look like his vote on me is bussing. My statement was in regards however to skelda and beli not voting him to save himself.
Not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.
Next up I asked beli questions and he didn't respond, then got into my scum read on chaos.

I'll be back Tuesday, as long as green crayons is okay with me being gone for a day doing RL stuff, if not I can replace out.

[farside22]

Oh and CKd has been in catch up whenever he post this in itself should make the only scum do x null and void.
It's called life. Not everyone can be here and sure as shit is not.
Titus? Nope, he just post a few things and doesn't interact.
Ducky that kept posting nothing of value and then disappeared.
Ape: no interaction and few reads.

Point farside.

[farside22]

I ended up with crazy life this week.
Just got a job offer! Woot!

Mod: I can either try to post this week (can't say how frequent) or you can replace me but consider me LA till Saturday 11/01

congratulations! And no worries. Post as much as you can

[farside22]

was coming in to make a "i am busy (at work) going to be little posting this week" post (on oh GC!!!!) Saw there was a doc claim? not sure what lead to it. I went back to page 74 to check...acryon made it? titus is calling for a counter-claim...

not the doctor.

Not the doc here.

unvote

I don't see a reason for scum to make the claimed based on the set up.

Should be around Thursday to figure who maybe the last scum.

[farside22]

Didn't get the time I needed yesterday.

I thought about this game last night and the players.

Town:
GC: I think is town. The push on scrambles and back and forth I can not see coming from scum
Riddle: Pretty much the same as GC
Acryon: Claimed doc

Leaning Town
CBD: I know what I said about chaos but bird came in and analysis the game and I felt myself agree with many of the things he said from the start.

Not sure/paranoid:

Titus - I know the girl voted for scrambles and beli but I had that paranoid moment because how little I see from her as far as reasons. The idea of bussing and just floating buy did enter my thoughts last night.

Ckd: -All I recalled from ckd was skelda. I don't know if he responded to why he thought chaos(cbd) with how the interaction was during day 1 and 2 when I pushed the case on chaos. I know scum bus but that hard and that much just don't make sense. I haven't really read today, but most of the time has been just asking questions and not much else.

AFF - Early on good then just not involved. She pushed the case on beli for pretty meh reasoning and just kept the vote there. Day 2, was the, this should happen and voted Beli, with the pressure on beli yesterday from others, this seems more like the best play for scum to make. Also once the pressure was off Amy day 3 after the beli lynch she was non response and non interaction with Scrambles. I have seen no opinion from her after the lynches on scum and has just coasted by the game.

Vote: Amy

Will have more Saturday

[farside22]

Anyone want to tell me what is going on currently?

[farside22]

Anyone want to tell me what is going on currently?

if you had to guess?

There is a wagon on you. What's the case?
Is it the not on any scum wagon or the catch up bs I got from GC?

[farside22]

I was hoping to get a break down from someone on what I missed. Sitting down and reading on a computer isn't happening.


Amy: who is scum and why? I do not want to see you quote or link GC's point, I want you to explain in your own words.

[farside22]

You're scum. If you flip town then my secondary choice would be CDB. This is somewhat prone to change.
1)You're scum because you voted scrambles 'so a lynch happens' as opposed to following your previous reasoning. 2)Also, dismissing something as a ''case'' without having read through is a pretty naff move. 3)Belisarius' unexplained yet 'serious' vote for you is an example of awkward scum-to-scum interaction. 4)You also called something of CDB's 'scummy shit' and then openly sheeped is case on me the next day. Want more?

This reads a lot like what GC said to me already.

So Im going to ask you to explain better for each thing I ask:

1)Not sure why this is scummy to you. please explain
2) I have ADD and read some things and not everything. It's pretty normal so not sure why this is scummy to you either. Can you explain why you think this is scummy further. What makes it either just not functional or unable to read through things vs scum
3) How is that even a fact? He voted for me. He sure as shit didn't read serious as the day went on and I asked about how his tunnel was serious and town worthy.
4) where did I call CBD's scummy shit? I know I found Titus hammer scummy but please quote where I called something CDB scummy.

[farside22]

23hours left. It's either going to be GC or CKD today. The people whom have their votes parked in other slots should move.

The lynch happens on the person with the most votes.

I want amy to respond to my questions. I do not like her following GC's line of reasoning and not explaining why those actions read as scummy

[farside22]

23hours left. It's either going to be GC or CKD today. The people whom have their votes parked in other slots should move.

Well this is a bit delusional.


I'll switch to CDB if necessary, but I'd prefer a farside. CKD only as a last resort to avoid a no lynch.

Why does amy get a pass for just sheeping your read?
You realize there is literally little to no interaction between her and scramble?

Why is cbd a scum read?

[farside22]

It really boggles my mind that Beli's really shitty push against farside has made her immune from suspicion from most of the town, even as she has become essentially a nonentity surpassing even Amy in this game.

I'm going to just put you on ignore at this point.
It seems your okay with Amy's non expressive behavoir during the scrambles lynch, but when I state a v/la during most of this day it's scummy.
Your double standards on players is very much a peeve.


That said I think CKD is town. I would prefer an amy lynch but I see mr. Double standard has a say on this that surpasses my feelings.

Riddle: can you explain to me why amy isn't considered scum in your view?

CKD: I don't see cbd trying to keep you for lylo. I think there is 9 players (I lost track between job training and brain too fried to look back). If that is correct I think scum need 3 mislynches to win. If it's you and amy only that does not account for lylo.

[farside22]

(put this in the gambit category)

as a appreciate this last minute wagon/save....

If Amy flips town....thinking about tomorrow pains me.

if she flips scum, then I have truly done jack shit in this game.

If amy is town I'd be shocked. I can't even think of someone else that could be scum.

[farside22]

Amy is obvious town.

GC your analysis completely ignored riddleton.

Is this just VCA? If so I dont get it.

[farside22]

Hey, working.
Read some of the back and forth in regards to CKD.
The theory, if I'm correct, is he didn't bus to use later?
If that is the gist, I think that is crazy.

I forgot where I was in this game, but I'm off tomorrow to review.

[farside22]

I don't recall titus promise VCA ever showing.

CKD: we had a chat about old school and bussing scum buddy. I don't imagine the convo was not said without your own meta in mind.
Am I crazy not to wifom this? I think not. I imagine, as this game is one you played after q break, you could change your stripes just for me. Also I ran across a player who came back after a break, but did nothing but bus and make bad cases.
I won't be voting you.

vote: titus

explain your change of reads and reasoning.

[farside22]

I apparently dont get it, or completely dont understand the theory behind this game.


again lets say titus, GC, CDB, or farside are scum...they leave me alive today because "they dont think I am scum (today)". we get to lylo and they (titusscum, GCscum, CDBscum, or farsidescum) leave me and riddleton alive for lylo?


who is getting the rope?

sweet god if you are town...if you think I am scum...or you dont want me to get to lylo...we need to do this now.


here let me give you a little motivation. if we dont hang me I will start scum hunting again....given my track record in this game, nobody wants that.

furthermore, I will probably be voting CDB...so CDB, get your vote on me while the getting is good.

or...farside...you might get my vote dear...sooooo..did you ever address GC's point about why you ignored my question about your scramble's case.


see


I have already started..

I'm skimming the game currently and barely skimming at best. I get 10 minutes of peace (let me laugh at the peace part) and quickly post what I get the gist of on where I stand on what I could read.

In short, could you quote the point from GC about ignoring your questions.

It's the fact that making a lot of noise about voting a scumbuddy and actually voting to lynch a scumbuddy serve the same purpose: distancing. It's just that the former is a safer version of it than the latter, but you're more inclined to believe that the scum took the more anti-win-condition distancing strategy of actually helping to thin their own numbers.

Clarification: It's not that I don't think that scum hasn't bussed this game, it's just that you're more inclined to believe that the scum took the more anti-win-condition distancing strategy of voting-to-lynch

both

of their scum buddies over the notion that scum took other distancing actions that had less impact on their actual numbers.

farside's play looks much more like someone who didn't want to bus (refused to vote Beli despite constantly saying how bad Beli's play was, going so far as to say that either Beli or chaos was scum), but then when the second scum was on the chopping block but shy of a majority vote, thought a bus to push him over the edge would net her town points.

I'm not going to say it but one last time.
I thought chaos was scum over beli. Anything you read that I said is me believing chaos was scum and I even explained that beli's lack of vote on skelda made me think he was town.
Admittedly my view on scramble was never as vocal as it should have been. I was very much back and forth reading the comments said between him and riddle and him and you.
I voted him with doubt in my mind about his alignment.


going back to read what titus said now.

[farside22]

Titus:
Reading this post why are you voting Riddle if you have him as town based on your own analysis?

[farside22]

Riddle: explain how titus is town.

CKD: do you think GC is scum? Seriously? I can't see it with the interaction between him and scrambles.

[farside22]

I feel like no one is even thinking of titus this game.
She didn't interact with anyone. Used a mysterious VCA for reasoning on scrambles and no riddle that makes no fucking sense.
Shit all she has to do is keep using the same fucking logic and people just turn a blind eye.

Am I just crazy?