Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Hello children. I want to state, I have not come to judge the mafia. Just to find and save them from their own corruption. I bid you all a good game

[St Constantine the Hermit]

hai

I am inflated at your generosity
Would you bestow me with some more, and signal the beacon of our friendship?

I require assistance unearthing the highlights of this game. Come thither, and share them with me.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm not scum anymore?

Also explain of your reads please

All of them?
Ok, I'll make a detailed post on them later. You're null/scum and I'm going to have to reanalyse your posts.

Speak English, there is no such word as "ok". Okay I say, kay? You are Oncorporeal. There was nothing stopping you from posting in the last hour.
Enlighten us dutchman?

Hey. Checking in. I'll read back on what I missed later after I'm finished studying.

I have bad vibes from thy. What drove you to adultery, harlot?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Who are you talking to, because how do you know whether there was something stopping them from posting? That's fine if you want to post in this ridiculous way, as long as you make your content and direction clear.

Child, you test my patience and sanity. With my patience goes my stability. With my sanity goes my judgement.
Do you think me a madman? Lord sojourn our victory, for this man be an utter fool! A fool's fool!

Grace us with the highlights of the game fool.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Who are you talking to, because how do you know whether there was something stopping them from posting? That's fine if you want to post in this ridiculous way, as long as you make your content and direction clear.

Child, you test my patience and sanity. With my patience goes my stability. With my sanity goes my judgement.
Do you think me a madman? Lord sojourn our victory, for this man be an utter fool! A fool's fool!

Grace us with the highlights of the game fool.

You didn't answer the question. And it tends to be customary for a replacement to read through the thread, not be spoon-fed reads by the town, especially when we are only one day in.

Reality is ever moving. There can be no going back, nor is the past relevant to my quenched love of the befallen.
Impute your shameless insolence, update me with YOUR thoughts, foolish child.

I've come to strike the hammer of final judgement, do not impede as I sow the threads of justice. As for thy question, I have done much studying of the scripture. It is the one you call Wguert's meta, to ignore one game and post in another. The man's ignorance cannot be stopped. Just check the time stamps on his last post!!! I doubt if he's even dutch!

I bid you well, fool, for thou lord can only forgive so many times before thou is forced to pursue justice on one's soul. For better or worst.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Why am I scummy again?

Thou is innocent in my holy book. No creation of the lord can be guilty of his own, ungodly nature.
Give me, child born of both Lucifer and Christ, your reads, in hopes your soul will be saved.

Do not force me to perform my sacred rites, for thoust is not in the mood to bring the depraved fate of demons to the light, in front of christian men.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mathdino looks town for the effort he's putting into this game

Was it not Lucifer who put 40 days and 40 nights of effort into corrupting the redeemer?

Fin is making a lot of points which I agree with at the moment.

Do not be the fool to fall for evil which sounds just! Do not be the puppet of demons!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mathdino looks town for the effort he's putting into this game

Was it not Lucifer who put 40 days and 40 nights of effort into corrupting the redeemer?

Fin is making a lot of points which I agree with at the moment.

Do not be the fool to fall for evil which sounds just! Do not be the puppet of demons!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Damn double post. Renounce thy devil, there is witchcraft in our midst!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Constantine do you really have to post like that? It's getting annoying fast.

I am town reading Wguert's, he has the ignorance of a fool, but I perceive him as a misguided lamb being prepped up for the slaughter.
Mislynch I cry! Heresy I doubt!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Constantine do you really have to post like that? It's getting annoying fast.

Agreed. I was tired after about 1 post. It's enough to bring out the lurker in anyone.

I asked for your thoughts on the game thus far. You have ignored me, like a seed fallen from the blossoming flower that is thy Kingdom of Heaven!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm all up for PLing this guy though, he will be a nightmare to read and is therefore dangerous.

Thy Second Commandment in the Ten Commandments of Constantine's Apocrypha
- That which is policy lynch, is scummy lynch

[St Constantine the Hermit]

You just replaced in, why would you ask others about their thoughts? Read and give us

your

thoughts.

For my reads are kept solemnly spoken until a justified truth is revealed. I will not spout the scripture of the pagans and satanists.
Thou will wait for an opinion to form, before asking the Hermit his thoughts on the game, child.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Thy has pledged to the gods that all posts will be kept productive henceforth.
If you are willing, please share your reads.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

*If ye are willing
OOCN: This is not my first game of mafia
OOCN1: I really want people to share their reads
OOCN2: Chill out people, you're all to unclassy for roleplay mafia.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@St Constantine - Do you have any prior experience with mafia?

Indeed, I only said that four posts up, la la la

[St Constantine the Hermit]

After delving deeper into the scripture, I've been enlightened with intriguing news.
Wguert's has the devil's gleam, when he tells us he's a freemason. I'm leaning to believe him, but on the off chance he is possessed by the devil, wouldn't it be in our best interests to have one freemason claim?
Therefore you confirm wguert's as either being truly a mason, or with a scum buddy.

Scrap that, there's no way Lucifer's fallen angels would be foolish enough to claim to be Freemasons. Otherwise there would be three actual freemason's pushing his lynch.
The lord is simply encouraging me to share my ideas. Just make sure apostles, if wguert's is not a member of the freemasonry, you should speak up so he may receive Scaphism.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Considering no children have CC'd Wguert's, we should treat him as confirmed town. I haven't made it past the tenth page of the holy advent yet, so bear with me.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Considering no children have CC'd Wguert's, we should treat him as confirmed town. I haven't made it past the tenth page of the holy advent yet, so bear with me.

I see you haven't gotten to page 12 yet...

I'm a little curious about how where you think you saw a mason claim.

I'll admit to some skimming of the holy advent. What I gathered was that wguert's claimed freemason, and is now asking the others to reveal their identities.
I just skimmed page 12. TBH, I usually don't read much back into games I'm replacing into. I request my apostles do the bidding for me.
It becomes harder to read in my old age.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mistakes, the lord has no time for them. ISO'd Wguert's, he didn't claim freemason, but he did freemason fish a little later on.

Mathdino was the first person to accuse him of freemason fishing. I don't think he freemason fished before the accusation, but he definitely did after.
I think it is a huge mistake to have all three freemasons claim on D1. They already know they're confirmed town, and they don't need to prove it to others.
If they did, then they could claim freemason when the time is actually justified. Besides that, it is pretty much taking whatever advantage the freemason's have, and throwing them in the NP as scum cannon fodder.

The lord has one requisite for this game,

DO NOT MENTION MASONS

This is one of the rare game set-up's where town has a huge advantage over a 2-3 man scum team. Don't waste it.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Third Holy Commandment of Open 575: Friends & Enemies Mafia

Thou Shalt Not Mention Masons, or burneth in the dead thread

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Wow, I missed a ton...

Alright, so just to make sure that I'm understanding this all:
The arguments that I'm seeing ATM:
Wgeurts voted Wisdom supposedly to get us out of RVS. Now, he unvoted after receiving some pressure, but his weird behavior sparked lots of debate. Is suspected by Mathdino and Newbie (anyone I missed?)
Also, VictorDeAngelo appeared to question Mathdino's desire for a meta.
Is there anything else that I'm missing with everything that's been going on?

I don't appreciate what I interpret as buddying from blindme.

Hah, wouldn't call it "buddying", man. Note that I did call your argument weak in my last main post, and was criticizing Silver's response.


@Wisdom: You seem wholeheartedly convinced in wgeurts' scumminess. I'd say wait until he posts again with content that can help us make a decision. I don't want to "jump on your wagon" until I'm sure that it's not going to break underneath me and have me fall to my death .

So there's two sides to this town forming. There's mathdino and Wisdom, who are both suspicious of wgeurts and Silver. (VDA, based on his last post, appears to be part of this group). And then there's Finn, Silver, Newbie, TTH, Malakittens, and wgeurts, who believe that wgeurts' play was simply that of a frustrated townie (and are somewhat critical of Wisdom). Not_Mafia seems to be part of this group based on 274. And then acryon, who's been V/LA for this whole thing. (Also the Undertaker, because he's a no-show). At the moment, I'm leaning towards the former group, as wgeurts has been incredibly suspicious, but I want more info before completely deciding (aka when wgeurts responds to stuff). Including me, that's a 7-4 split, with 2 abstaining. Although this is all just a really big simplification of everything that's happened so far.

Alright, so like blindme said, this town's incredibly divided and at this rate if everyone votes their top suspects, no one's getting lynched. Halfway into the day, I think we're ready to look at our options:
Guys, correct me if I'm wrong on these.

acryon

wants to lynch Silver and is willing to lynch wgeurts.

blindmewithscience

wants to lynch wgeurts and seems unsure on Wisdom and Silver (

blindme

, I'd appreciate your thoughts on those 2 wagons and anyone else you feel is worthy of suspicion).

FinnLaw

seems willing to lynch Wisdom and is unsure on wgeurts.

Malakittens

wants to lynch acryon and is unsure on a whole bunch of people (

Mala

, I don't think we're getting a lynch on acryon. I only speak for me but I'm pretty sure he's town atm. If you want, build a case, but I'd prefer your thoughts on the other suspects)

Mathdino

wants to lynch Silver and is willing to lynch wgeurts.

Newbie

wants to lynch Wisdom (

Newbie

, I'd really appreciate if you expanded on your other suspicions just in case the Wisdom wagon doesn't pull through)

Not_Mafia

is unwilling to lynch wgeurts and is on V/LA.

SilverWolf

wants to lynch Wisdom and seems willing to lynch acryon and Mathdino.

TellTaleHeart

wants to lynch Wisdom.

VictorDeAngelo

wants to lynch wgeurts, and based on wgeurts being scum is willing to lynch SilverWolf and blindmewithscience.

wgeurts

wants to lynch Wisdom and is willing to lynch Victor. (Hasn't posted since the Silver suspicions started popping up.

wgeurts

, thoughts on that?)

Wisdom

wants to lynch wgeurts and is willing to lynch SilverWolf or Newbie, seems unsure on Mala.

That's 6 on Wisdom, 5 on wgeurts, 4 on Silver, 2 on acryon, 1 on blindme, 1 on Newbie, 1 on myself, 1 on Victor.
However, we should note that the majority of the town that's talked is unwilling to lynch wgeurts right now, so unless that's our only option other than a NL, that wagon doesn't seem like it's going to pull through.
For the Wisdom wagon, people who aren't already voting him seem fairly unsure on him.

Which is why I think we need more discussion on Silver. Paging

blindmewithscience

,

FinnLaw

,

Malakittens

, and

TTH

. Finn and TTH in particular since they've posted since my case and haven't discussed at all yet.

The lord renown's and promote's thee to layman. 325 and 386 are incredibly detailed. So we know who wants to lynch who. Now let's just figure out the why for everyone.

Everyone who wants to lynch Wguerts, re-elaborate

briefly

why?
Everyone who wants to lynch Wisdom, re-elaborate

briefly

why?
Everyone who wants to lynch Silver, re-elaborate

briefly

why?

Finally, Malakittens, explain your read on acyron, because I may be sharing just a tad bit in your suspicions.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

^Seriously, none of this dodging the question bullshit? Everyone needs to confess their reads to the lord. Everyone.
Jesus and I are only interested in the read of the person you want to lynch.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I've read up and really don't have anything new to say except that TTH comes off as extremely town and that wgeurts' town/mafia reads are interesting. Looking forward to his case on me.

I asked every player to elaborate their reads on the person they want lynched.
Why is Wisdom scummy to you?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Alright then.
I believe that wgeurts leans scum because:

Spoiler: Science Explanation

Main Points

1. Masonfishing. While I agree with your point in you previous post that he

could

be someone who believes that masonfishing was somehow good, this point doesn't work for me because wgeurts was explicitly told not to masonfish, such as in 187, before pushing a masonclaim in 288. Your argument in favor of him isn't working well one for me.
2. Contradictions. See my post 225, which there still has not been a response to.
Other, weaker points (including some made by other players)
3. His weird voting. The quite rapid unvoting of himself (which I agree he should have done), his voting near the beginning of the game.
4. Absence on this forum while continuing to participate in other games (check his post history).
I want a response to 1 and 2 (and maybe 4) when (if?) returns.


Now for my entire conclusion:
We all agree that a Wisdom/wgeurts scumteam is incredibly unlikely. While the cases against Wisdom are legitimate, the argument against wgeurts is much stronger IMO. And so I believe that Wisdom is the townie and wgeurts is scum. With Silver somewhat defending wgeurts, I could see a scumteam with her and wgeurts (but I'm still waiting for a response to my 406, as I can also see the frustrated townie in her). I'll try to add more and expand on this later: have some tests tomorrow that I'd like to study for. Probably won't check this again for another few hours.

Well that last post probably added more to the confusion than it helped and it wasn't very well written.

Aye child, and for what reasons do you have for wanting to murder Wisdom?

~mod note:what was once brokt is now fixt

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mala, you insolent harlot. You are a stain on the hearth of god's good will. The minstrel has already sung the tale. I have forfeited my foolishness. Must I confess my sins twiceforth?

Mistakes, the lord has no time for them. ISO'd Wguert's, he didn't claim freemason, but he did freemason fish a little later on.

Yield your insolence, open the martian gate and be a herald of the truth.

Why do you read the one known as Acyron as a son of Lucifer?

The pretender prince Diablo must be taken to the stake.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I am hard to read? The Hermit is only town, it is the fourth commandement in the Holy Advent.

That which is saintly is not scum

A dissident of the church seeks to usurp me simply for being hard to read!!! Demons are strong in you child. God is stronger!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Children, let's...

Excommunicate: VictordeAngelo

Would you call me crazy if the lord told me that none of the current lynch targets are scum?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

VOTE:

To Excommunicate VictorDeAngelo

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Good, now explain your vote

Why? The lord isn't an open book. Now to look for some metaphor to equate my feelings????

[St Constantine the Hermit]

wgeurts, I'm interested to see the case you said you had on me yesterday.

Expect it in an hour or so.

The lord knows a liar when he see's one. You're on the clock child.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Hello, the lord bears news, VictorDeAngelo is scum. Why has he not been stigmatized yet?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

The lord says that if victor is scum, then mathdino is most likely his buddy. Jesus would know, he's ISO'd most of the player list.
@Acyron - I love you too, now how about you live up to my godly example, and stop sinning with rage?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mala, when you get on, tell us your read on acyron please.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I usually don't explain my reads or thoughts until many questions have been asked. Most people on this site suck at playing mafia, or let their ego's drive their decision making.
Everyone's so sure that they know who scum is, that no one's willing to cooperate. I would like to cooperate, and I would like to win this game. Please help me do that.

If you want my statement, you're going to need to give it some time. Lord know's we have plenty of it. I always like seeing what others think of my vote

before

I tell them why I chose it. It really defeats the purpose to feed reasoning scum can easily refute. Encouraging people to think for themselves goes a mile longer than me telling them why to follow my lead.
With that said,

why do you think I might be scum reading him

?

God grace's to you, and hopefully you understand my position better.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm also not a big fan of "democratic" mafia. The kingdom of god is a theocracy, people just get in the way of justice.
The chances of actually catching scum through...
A) Cooperation
B) Authority Figure's

... are about 100% guaranteed. I dont want other people's opinions, because unless what you're saying is very thoughtful, it is just clutter which confuses decision making.
I would like to lynch Vincent or Mathdino today, and am not to eager to look for alternatives. Let's just get the job done. With that said, if you haven't clarified your RFV (Reason for vote) yet, now is the time to do so.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

The lord gives me the authority to cooperate. Mathdino, patron saint of foolishness, it is you who is arrogant. Arrogant to the passion of christ.
You should be stigmatized for you ignorance. Don't you realize you're the main reason why god wants VictorDeAngelo Dead?
Yes, the lord suspects an unusual early connection and rvs ploy in the works.

The lord has given me the 10 commandments from his second holy advent. Number Five went like this....

If the fool wont cry, he's likely caught in a lie or has something to hide.

Fool, I didn't cry, not because I am caught in a lie, but I had several cards to hide. Victor's vote was a calling to the lord.
For you to come out and show your true colors. Me and Lucifer made a wager. He said that you wouldn't defend victor, but the lord led me to disagree.
Now that you have come out in his defense, without me having to reveal my intentions, I can justly say, I am sure Victor and Mathdino are scum buddies.

The question is who's a bigger threat. Enie Menie Miny Mo, Catch a Tiger by His Toe, My Mother Says to Pick the Very Best One.....it, is, not, you
VOTE: VictorDeAngelo
Come all with common sense. Read through Victor and Mathdino's lustful interactions. Homosexuality! Abominable!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

It feels good to catch scum on D1. Don't you think my precious?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Aye, a new revelation. It turns out that Mathdino could also be a homosexual lover with silverwolf. I ask the citizens to give me your opinion.
Should we lynch thy Mathdino, or thy Silverwolf. I'm eager to see Mathdino finish the silverwolf wagon. I'll join if he rehashes his vote.
I mean, 10 posts ago you were spouting and preaching all kinds of evil about SilverWolf, and now you drop your vote?

Please, let's finish him off, or else the lord will finish you off.
UNVOTE: Victor

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Furthermore, as I said before, I was having a real hard time seeing a Victor/[insert any of my suspects here] scumteam. I've ISO'd him. If you want to convince me he's scum, then build a case instead of tunneling.

Lucifer told me to vote him, under the misconception you're his scum buddy. I see that isn't as likely as I once thought.

Brother, I'm not responding to your questions because whatever I post on Silver will be much less detailed then the case I wrote on her. I want you to read it. On wgeurts, blindmewithscience pretty much summed up all the reasons I have. My major one was mason-fishing.

That's the thing. I think you were pushing a hard-bus on silverwolf.

My guts really strong on this one, and so is the lord's.

Sorry, you want me to lynch someone who's replacing out? There's no pressure left to put on Silver, no posts left to analyse, and thus no lynch to push. I'm very much going to scrutinise her replacement though.

These two statements contradict each other. You're saying you can't pressure silverwolf further, but you're definitely going to pressure his replacement. Why remove your vote, if you simply want to pressure the slot. It doesn't make much sense, does it?

Constantine, the majority of the town is townreading me and a good few are townreading Victor

I honestly do not care. The majority opinion is only relevant when we're nearing the deadline.
The objective opinion does not change my read on you. Which to be quite honest, is really strong.
I really want to smite you, so hell yeah I'm going to tunnel. Tunneling a scum read is actually a

good

thing to do.

Please take a leap of faith with me here guy's. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about
VOTE: Mathdino

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Children, Please read back through Mathdino's ISO, or posts in general. Things I want people to study are his...
1. RVS Interactions
2. Push on SilverWolf
3. Intent behind his blocks of text

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Is this MathDino's first game as scum? He's displaying traits normal of a newb scum player, but I may have to change my reads a little if that's not the case. Is he an alt?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Constantine and acryon, can you sincerely defend your Wisdom townread?

That isn't how mafia works, child. It is you who must prove he's scum.
The problem is that many egotistical souls think they know what scum look like, and what scum do.
Lord only knows this isn't the truth.

Mafia is a game of psychological analysis. Like any game where someone has something to veil, the only way to know someone is scum is to trust in your...

Game Theory and Social Theory

Is wisdom someone who conveys the traits of an exemplary soldier of god? No, he really doesn't, but nothing he's done has really been outside what I would expect from a human, who adhere's to basic principals in human nature. Try to walk in wisdom's shoes. If you can imagine one possible scenario where he could of said something as a townie with nothing to hide, then you're really understanding how this game is played.

I will submit, I haven't read wisdom's ISO, and as a patient servant of our lord, I have no trouble doing that. I just haven't found anything strikingly odd from what I have read.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Wisdom is a saint. Wguert's is a saint. Resitheth the urge to lynch either one of these insolent fools.
I don't mind finishing silverwolf or going for my mathdino wagon, because the lord has it as such.
Did none of you browse his past?

Mathdino has displayed every trait of someone who is playing as a first time scum. RVS was especially odd, with how he interacted with both victordeangelo.
I'm sorry if you feel pointing this out reveals a freemason, but the lord is more confident it will reveal scum. Reading through all of Mathdino's past scripture, I have confirmed that he has a different meta too.
My fear is graver than that. It is the prerogative that he doesn't act like a human, but a demon.

There are two reasons why one shouldn't suspect mathdino though.

Constantine, the majority of the town is townreading me and a good few are townreading Victor. I, for one, came to my Victor conclusion by looking through his posts, and I'd like to think most people did the same for me and him. Asking us why you're voting for who you are is almost worse than acryon answering people's questions for them. I don't mean to be rude, but back yourself up or get out. I'll respond to any actual reasoning you have to offer.

If anything, you've given even less reasoning than the person you replaced. You're not really helping town. You are now the better candidate to lynch.
VOTE: St Constantine the Hermit

Emotion is a town tell. Reactionary voting is as well, except in a few rare cases. Mathdino is reminding me of my younger self in a couple of prominent ways.
UNVOTE: Mathdino
Wguert's: Really is newb town, and is displaying the traits of what you could expect from a a game which promotes hysteria
Wisdom: Is town, because nothing he's done makes sense for someone playing as scum. He reacts like a townie, he picks fights like a townie. He really is a townie.

I do have more suspicion to place on Finnlaw and VictordeAngelo
VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Mathdino- I've been playing mafia long before I joined this site. I don't want people to sheep me, I encourage them to look closely at what I'm saying. Notice I specifically tell people to go back to look at what I'm talking about? People can choose to sheep me, and I encourage them to do just that. I feel I know how to catch scum better than most of you, and that shouldn't be taken as arrogance.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

There is a connection between Mathdino, Victor, and Silverwolf. We already know it isn't a freemason connection, or they wouldn't of pushed wagons at each other.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I will be going on a pilgrimage. Apparently what you mafia players would call V/LA.
I'm not scum, I think that one of the three people I accused of being scum, is actually scum.

@Acyron - Being all over the place is a town tell, mate. It is quite common for town to make more accusations than scum, ie, a lot more opinions and new information to be taking in.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

TTH, you're being kind of one sided with the wisdom wagon. Just don't let the sixth deadly sin, pride, to overcome you.
I want us to be far more open minded. Close Mindedness helps no one.

Mathdino, restate your case on silverwolf. If the new replacement is pressured, will you join the wagon even if no new information would of been presented?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mala, when you get on, please tell me why you scum read acyron.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

^^ Okay, tell me, what 9 players (2/3) did I claim were connected. To my knowledge, I only claimed there was a scum connection between mathdino, silverwolf, and victor. Also, what you're doing this game isn't very productive. You're pretty much just bitching at a lot of people and not contributing anything useful, so please don't play the pro-town card.

Now let's only post about relevant things. Not who's the better player, la la la nonsense. It helps no one.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

TTH, just to save you some breath, the freemason alliance is pretty clear if it wasn't already. Just stop talking about it.
Screw Freemasons, they're a shitty and absolutely worthless role, but it is pretty much the only one town has.
The only scenario I can imagine that involves you continuing this one sided wagon, is one in which you deduced up to the point I have.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Acyron - I'm serious about that. I think one of the three is scum. This is my belief. If you think it is wrong, tell me why.
@Acyron2- The problem is that masons lead to lots of confusion and mislynches. There is one advantage, and that is you can confirm townies. Granted, there is no reason to confirm the masons until they are at L-1.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

^Sing us another jingle king of jesters. You really are asking to be PL'd, you know that, right? Contradictions aren't an allignment tell. I've said it before and will say it again.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

If we are going to lynch anyone for contradictions, it would be the person who just voted me.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Lord only knows why my reasoning is falling on deaf ears. Fair not, I have no wishes to argue.
I do wish for reasoning on why me being wrong equates to me being scum, or how leaving a vote on me is productive, but I at least appreciate Acyron and Mathdino's willingness to answer my questions.
No matter how disrespectful they come across to a servant of the lord.

I do believe that there is scum to be found among the unholy triumvariate, but as long as Mathdino, and silverwolve's replacement, continue, or in silverwolve's case, start to scum hunt, I'll make it a policy to drop my push.
How I pity confessing my inglorious pride.

Forgive me, I wish to not only serve the lord, but my friends in the church.

@Mala - If it wasn't shockingly obvious who the freemason's are already.
@Mala2 - For the love of Saint Francis, explain your previous read on acyron already. How many times must my questions be dropped, before the harlot confesses her sins?
@Mala3 - Do you think I look scummier than acyron, your earlier scum read?
@TTH - Thanks for dropping your vote. Please tell me your inquiries on VictorDeAngelo.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Sorry if thou hermit comes off as, frustrated. I simply am wishing, for the third time must I add, for you tell us why you previously scum read acyron.
We'll have time to laugh about the "Mathdino Scumteam with X" truism later, when I'm inevitably proven right.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Riddleton, my love, my main account is inactive. I would know, I hydra'd your mother. That was a different time. When breaking celibacy vows was all the rage.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Question - Why would someone with a "personality" like mine play a game as scum and act like myself? That's pretty much the same as nailing up a sign saying "lynch me".

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Mala - If it wasn't shockingly obvious who the freemason's are already.

Holy hell would you stop with this?

Secondly, I've been scumhunting the entire game. How is continuing to do exactly what I'm doing going to change your mind? Your entire case is based on association.

Actually my case on you and Victor is based off of intent, not association. My read on silver was association, that I'll concede.
If I'm scum reading you and victor, and you're actually contributing on a regular basis, by policy I would prefer to lynch victor.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Ciao, I must get back to ther hermitage. Talk amongst yourself children.
Riddleton, my son, make your father proud and catch us some scum.
If only your mother could see you all grown up

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@TTH, thanks for reminding me
@Riddleton, what are your thoughts on Victor?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Constantine

, thoughts on MalaKittens, please.

Mala's very hard to read. I haven't town read her yet, but a couple times she's dipped to mild scum.
She plays like someone I know before who was often my scumbuddy, and that's the only reason I did at times scum read her.

I agree with her point on "Scum motivation" not being a reason to vote people, and I like what she has said so far, but that gut feeling hasn't left me.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Could you point out these places where exactly this happened, and explain your reasoning for them?

I didn't mention any particular post, so what is it exactly you want me to show you?

I'm really confused lost on the wgeurts is town argument

Considering you're new to mafia, it is understandable. It has nothing to do with being Pro-Wguert's, as he looks 100% town to any person who's been playing this game over a month.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Masonfishing. While I agree with your point in you previous post that he could be someone who believes that masonfishing was somehow good, this point doesn't work for me because wgeurts was explicitly told not to masonfish, such as in 187, before pushing a masonclaim in 288. Your argument in favor of him isn't working well one for me.

While the idea is obviously out of place, I do understand where he's coming from. Masons aren't a very powerful role, unless they are trying to confirm each other.
The whole act of confirming is only necessary when a mason is being targeted for lynching.

It's also not unlikely Wguert's is a mason by using "mason psychology" so many times.

Contradictions. See my post 225, which there still has not been a response to.

That isn't a scum tell. The only time a contradiction is scummy, is when something is said contrary to an action undertaken.

His weird voting. The quite rapid unvoting of himself (which I agree he should have done), his voting near the beginning of the game.

Again, not a scumtell. This also appears to be the meta he's carrying in all his games.

Absence on this forum while continuing to participate in other games (check his post history).
I want a response to 1 and 2 (and maybe 4) when (if?) returns.

Not a scumtell

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Here are actual scum tells
- Saying what "Scum" would do a lot
- When tunneled, responding back with questions and not statements
- Voting one way but reading another
- Compensating with Large Blocks of Text (This is called domination)
- Lurking

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Acyron or Wisdom are either being reactionary to the victor wagon, or letting pride blind their reason.
So I'm being voted for some bullshit regarding my interpretations of what scum do?
Tunnel, Tunnel, Tunnel, Choo Choo!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Wisdom, I agree, I've been thinking about riddleton's hyper defense on me and I'm not sure what to make of it.
I think your guy's case and reasoning is incredibly idiotic, but that will be proven in due time with my flip.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Until that quote you showed me, I really didn't have any problems with Constantine. I'm on the fence now that you've shown me, and will need to re-evaluate my stance tonight in light of the new information.

This is the stem of my frustration. Suddenly agreeing with wisdom after three pages of pushing his case that I'm town, and now he's saying he's on the fence. Bullshit!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Riddleton is looking like someone who wants to cater to both sides. I can picture him defending me as town for image, and still trying to appease you guy's by saying I'm not off the hook.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I've no reason to lie by the current gamestate, Constantine.

I didn't accuse you of lying. I accused you of having hidden motivations behind your actions.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm scumreading Victor more than Riddleton, but I would feel at least semi confident joining a wagon on him if the Victor lynch doesn't work out.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Finnlaw, can you please tell us why you're leaving? It is important for read reasons.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

^This is the same reason wisdom just scum read riddleton.
Still think you, victor, and silverwolve's replacement are scum.
That hasn't changed at all since I started this joke of a game.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I still feel more comfortable lynching victor, and I agree with newbie about their being resistance.
While I'm more than happy to deadline lynch riddleton, there's just this off feeling that it's a counter wagon.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

*there

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm starting to feel the suspicion on Riddleton is little more than a counter wagon, based on weak speculation.
My vote's remaining on victor.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Uh, is this seriously happening? Oh well, it isn't me who's going to be laughing at town's brain dead stupidity.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Oh, now for the long and wrong case that results in my eventual mislynch. These things always swing people near the deadline. Whopee!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

If riddleton switches to my wagon, I'm going to blow a casket. Lynching myself doesn't reveal any new information that I didn't already know. For one, that I'm town.
I'm not a mason, so if people are trying to lynch me because of my assertions on who the other masons were, good riddance.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

K
Confirmed newbie is scum with victor.

Possibly. That isn't my current theory though. Let's just focus on lynching VDA before accusing anyone of association.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

At this point I'm just gonna ask you to read/skim my case, haha.

Your case is terrible.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I hope this is an example to follow my wagons in the future. As policy, you should only start wagons on people off the wagon, the day immediately after lynching scum.
Acyron and Mathdino, one of which is confirmed scum, should be our first and foremost priorities.
VOTE: Acyon

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Everyone... I started the wagon, based on my gut. Give me the decency of continuing our assault on the forces of evil.
I'm all for lynching the last people on the wagon now, but it was a common policy on my first site to lynch people off the wagon, as you get a better probability of hitting scum.

Acyron and Mathdino's reactionary defense makes a lot more sense. I really have no clue which of the two is scum, but mathdino seems like a cool guy, so we'll let him live for now.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mathdino, are you serious? If anything, it looks like you were bussing Victordeangelo like some newbie in the RVS stage.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

This is pseudoscience as a general premise and is really vague as it pertains to this game. How are you getting a bucket of two with confirmed scum in it?
beefycheese

God told me in a vision.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

scum rarely vote each other in RVS

This is false. If you wish, I can provide many games in which scum vote each other in RVS. They do this so they can avoid interacting with the town.

That's actually a solid scum tell. Who said that? Mathdino?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Actually, good catch riddleton. Mathdino is confirmed super newbie scum.
VOTE: mathdino

Okay, ciao for the night.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mathdino is extremely scum malakittens. We're lynching him today.
Or acyron, pick your poison. Seeing Mathdino cover his newbie ass is making me read him over acyron.
All three, Victor, Mathdino, and Acyron, are newbs, and both acyron and victor started to attack each other, like newb scum do, during the early game phase.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Riddleton - Mala wasn't even going to be on my radar today, but she's kind of forcing me to ask.
Why did you vote her?

@Mala - This probably isn't a solid scum tell, but in the few times I've encountered it, every time a player kept trying to confirm someone as town, even when no one else was pushing the issue, one of the two ended up being scum. Can you just explain this to me a little bit more, because I'm not really catching your drift here.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

As a policy, I'm lynching off the wagon today, but I want to know why riddleton is scum reading

That wouldn't have been a OTT scumbuddy reaction

Maybe. I'm sticking to the mandate, and it is a good one. Either Acyron or Mathdino is getting lynched tonight.
I agree that newbie is possible scum.

There seems to be some consensus that lynching Acyron would be a good idea.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Again, what's your reaction to his reaction after my hammer, do you really think that was a scum reaction? I don't.

I don't know what to make of it. I just am catching a lot of newb scum vibes, but I definitely am up for discussing his lynch some other time, and lynching acyron today.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mathdino thinks I bussed Victor. Good luck with that one chap.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

That which is policy lynch is scummy lynch.

Then you agree that policy voting me is scummy. Lol.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm out for real this time. Lynch Acyron or Mathdino. Ciao (for real this time).

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Wisdom is 100% town. Stop.
Or try to lynch him. You'll see how much resistance you get.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

You people are impossible. We lynch people who were off the wagon the day after hitting scum
It doesn't matter what happened, what your reads are, that's all blah.

You pick one of the two options on the table, and you run with it. Mala is not being lynched. Wisdom is not being lynched. We are lynching Acyron.
VOTE: Acyron

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Apparently the more confident I am in a lynch, the less others are.
Please....

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Riddleton is probably town. As for acyron, well, let's all remember how right you were about the

victordeangelo lynch

.
You know, the one you weren't on. Look kid, relax, and join the smart wagon. You wont regret it.

Bussing does happen, but it is very rare, and mostly done by newbs. I asked you this earlier, but have you ever played as scum before?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

People who talk about fallacies should know that every argument is based off of one.
Every argument is either argumem de axiom, argumem de obicular, or argumem de astern.

Fallacies are an invention for stupid people to sound smart when they don't know how to properly argue. But yes, keep putting scum on the town pedestal to the end of the game.
We'll see how that continues to work out for you, considering I probably have five times the experience playing this game over you.

Not everyone likes me in this game, but when I make an accusation it is usually either right or highly justified.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

The fact that you are town reading the people town would normally be scum reading, is very alarming at this point.
Additionally, I'm concerned that you are scum reading the people who you should be town reading.

Bussing is possible, but it isn't as likely as you would think. Even if it did happen, it is never advisable to lynch players immediately based off of that assumption. An assumption which can't be close to proven.
I think you're overthinking things. Stop overthinking this game. I guarantee you mafia isn't planning their steps as articulate as you make them out to be.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Riddleton is town. I will stand firmly against his lynch.
But I encourage people to try. The sooner it breaks down the sooner we can focus on lynching acyron.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Village Idiot, nuff said.

This is funny coming from you

I wont stand by as others try to lynch riddleton. It is such an idiotic lynch, it's unbelievable. Actually, I'm pretty sure 90% of the players are complete newbs at this game, and it is absolutely dreadful having this become a mathdino dominated game. I do concede that I don't know this sites meta, but I know mafia in general. The silliness of everyone's argument and gameplay is astounding, and I'm baffled at these peoples ineptitude at recognizing scum.

Acyron isn't confirmed scum. Nothing in this game is confirmed, but I guarantee you town will win by lynching the two people off the wagon and the last two people on the wagon. Completely ignoring actual scum tells, which as wisdom said, and to a modern degree I accept, scum tells are circumstantial.
- Wisdom
- Riddleton
- Telltaleheart
^None of these people are scum.

If you're a mason, and anyone of these people, claim now...
- Mathdino
- Acyron
- Malakittens
- Newbie

These were the 2 people off the wagon and the last two people on the wagon. This would be a great time to self confirm some of the

most likely

scum candidates.
If Riddleton is scum, that means he hard bussed (led a lynch against a scum buddy), which is not only rare, but usually backfires.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm compromising, and dropping my stance that we should only lynch people off the wagon, but in my dozens of games in experience, it is likely that the people I mentioned contain scum. Enough of this hardbus analysis though. It is a waste of breath to consider until later in the game.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Borkjerkin - Friendly advice, watch it. Being a jackass may be cool in some circles, but not this one.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Uh, you're all very bad at mafia. That's all there is to say.
I'm being very quiet as I allow the idiots who dominate this game to start mislynching.
Maybe then some of you will stop perking up your balls and actually play smart.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

You all do suck. That's honesty.
I'm regretting coming to this site, because everything is overanaylzing.
On my first site I had a near perfect record on dozens of games, so I'm simply asking for the credibility I deserve.

Stop over thinking the game. The answer is pretty clear. Acyron or Newbie are likely scum. Mala and Mathdino maybe.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I really can't wait for endgame to laugh in this guy's face.

Weird, I was thinking the same thing.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Wisdom, who are you scum reading. Same to riddleton.
Might as well include newbie.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I've decided to make a point, by following Mathdino's next wagon to its conclusion.
I am going to spam...
after, because I'm confident it will end in a mislynch.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

VOTE: Riddleton
Sorry mate, this is just going to be to good to pass up.
I can't wait for the town results

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Everyone join the riddleton wagon.
He's definitely scum, because mathdino seems to think so....

[St Constantine the Hermit]

VOTE: Riddleton
Sorry mate, this is just going to be to good to pass up.
I can't wait for the town results

Dude just quit it please

I cant. Riddleton is

definitely

scum.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mathdino is a genius. We're going to get a scum flip for sure.
He used absolutely no logic in reaching his vote, but hey, he's still probably correct.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I've decided to make a point, by following Mathdino's next wagon to its conclusion.
I am going to spam...
after, because I'm confident it will end in a mislynch.

How is this in any way playing to a town wincon.

I'm playing to a " prove mathdino is a newb" win condition.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

This is to good. Mathdino was right about victordeangelo. Can he be right about this too?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I can't be force replaced if I provide game related reasoning for all my actions.
What exactly is your case mate. It surely can't be riddleton is town.
That would mean mathdino is wrong.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm totally scum. Maybe you guy's aren't newbs after all.
How did you figure it out?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Riddleton's vote on me is stupid as shit, but it makes sense, because mathdino accused him of being scum.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mathdino, you've played 4 games. I've played around 30.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

His ego will deflate to the size of a pea after he's wrong about riddleton.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

My point has been made. Please continue scum hunting.
My vote's staying where it is unless we get really good reasoning on why someone else is scum.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

We know the mason team. I'll wait for the confirmation.
I completely agree with Bork's decision to out the masons.

I didn't actually think wisdom was a mason, but I did want to protect him from being mislynched. I think this confirms my suspicion on newbie and acyron.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Unless people still think me and riddleton hardbussed.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Anyone who has seen wguert's play knows he's town.
There are several possibilities now...

- Riddleton hardbussed VDA
- Mathdino or Acyron tried to gain traction on the VDA lynch (maybe both)
- Newbie softbussed VDA
- Newbie Softbussed VDA and one other person tried to gain traction

There's also the possibility that wisdom is scum, but I highly doubt it.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Why is wisdom town? I really don't see where you're coming from here

Mafia's more of a feeling than an exact science. My gut has been right most of the time, and I see no reason to think otherwise ATP.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I think riddleton is town, and newbie is town just a little more than MD and Acyron.
I'm good lynching any of them just to raise the probability of hitting scum.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

@Riddleton - Yes, I'm pretty certain the scum team is among you, and that gives a solid probability at hitting a second scum target.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

^If I'm doing my math right. I also accept that I'm not always right, so that, combined with the probability I just mentioned, makes me want to lynch any of the 4 of you.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

The scum team, by pure reason, is likely among the four possibilities I presented. That consists of you, newbie, mathdino, and acyron.