Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over

[Sakura Hana]

Hi all, I've been loosely following this game for a while, tho the only thing that i remember was the whole dooku vs acryon thing that exploded, imma re-read everything for now, feel free to ask me any questions.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok for personal reference
croboss -> Metalcyanide
Count Dooku -> Reminisence

Mostly liking for Town: Drezi, SC, House. Their play so far has been what i'd expect from town, they've been asking questions and pressuring people, also i understand Drezi's PoV wrt the catch-up posts, since i was that scum who made super townie catch up posts in that game.

The Null-Towns so far for me are Lalendra and VDA: Lalendra seems to be poking here and there at everything, tho the paranoia feels kinda townish (as in, not trusting anything 100%), VDA mostly due to experience with him in previous games.

RachMarie is... super null because she's done nothing yet, tho i know from experience that this happens often so...

Currently im torn between Count Dooku and acronym, acronym pulled what seems like a strawman on Count Dooku's argument (which is legit) by overblowing the fact that he quoted Rach in his post (and idk how everybody else missed such an obvious strawman), but i didn't like Count Dooku's reaction to it either, both are scummy after this but they are certainly not scum together, more so the fact that Count Dooku's reaction seemed mostly driven by emotion due to people not understanding his PoV, the back pedaling tho... is what i dislike.

The others weren't as memorable through my read through, so i'll go and ISO them to form any reads there (if any)
For now

Vote: Acronym

Because the strawman is always scum motivated, and the backpedaling tho could be because Count Dooku was just fed up with the argument.

[Sakura Hana]

Why did you feel the need to mention RachMarie specifically as a "super null" read when you had other null reads that you didn't bother naming individually?

Why is she memorable enough to call by name after having "done nothing yet" when nobody else is?

Because of past game experiences with her, i know this lack of activity is kinda... normal for her regardless of alignment. I felt the need to point it out since during my read through some of you seemed to be wondering about it.
Will get to the quotes for pisskop soon.

[Sakura Hana]

Hi Hana! Remember that time you were scum and I got you lynched? That's going to happen again!

I remember your name from somewhere, but i don't remember that game, unfortunately tho that's not going to happen again, because for that i'd need to be scum in this game too.

Point out some of those glorious House questions, please.

Also, Point out some awesome Cyanide pressuring.

I said it in general for both of them but sure, let me show you the posts that gave me townie vibes:

Spoiler: House

You're jumping on the easy read.

When you see scummy shit right off the bat, 9 times out of 10, it's coming from town. Scum are too busy being careful and trying to blend in. For scum to slip this hard right out the gate, they'd have to be pretty stupid.

These 2 for example, scum normally dont want to let people start getting townreads off so easily, this feels like he's more interested in finding scummy scum and warning off players about scummy town

IRT second part: This could be a townslip.

Scum doesnt look for town slips, town does

Scumread me for it all you want. I have good reason for that vote and I'm sticking to it.

Confronting people, scum is usually more careful.
Overall, he keeps pressuring people by voting them, confronting their statements, etc.

Spoiler: Cyanide

How can scum possibly benefit from it? Serious question.

I really don't think anyone is going to wagon someone in rvs to the extent where it could lead to a hammer outside of policy lynches (do these even happen anymore?) and newbie games. We don't really have any information, wagoning on someone may give us more information so I think it's pro-town.

^ Like House, finding town from the get go, it's more likely for town to try to find town than scum faking finding town and instead they fake finding scum (because they need to mislynch someone).

That would be a great argument if not pretty much every single completed open game contained an IC (I'm not lying, go check for yourself). Trying to convince everyone that there is an IC based on objective statistical data is hardly anti-town; if anything it is pro-town because scum already knows the set-up so I'm leveling the playing field a bit.

Town realizing there is almost certainly an IC is better than town not realizing that.

Trying to guess the setup based on statistical data gives Town an advantage over scum.

Why? The set-up is 7 townies 3 goons.

Scum wouldn't miss-guess the ammount of townies, they'd be pretty conscious on the ammount of mislynches they need to win. (I thin there was another person who also misread it, but i can't remember who it was).

Or you could shut up and see if someone else behaves in an opportunistic manner when they are presented with an easy reason to get on the rachwag. Maybe you're warning them?

Baiting.
Also he's very open about his reads and reasons, scum would have a harder time keeping up since well... their reads are fake

Also @Acryon: Sorry for mistyping your name, for some reason i thought it was acronym. However your whole debate with dooku feels like a big strawman and people started following you due to dooku's reactions, then dooku back pedaled, it's quite possibly he back pedaled because he's scum being pressured, but if that was the case he wouldn't have replaced out in the way he did (idk why anyone sees it as scummy but ok...), it's more likely that he back pedaled because he was being misunderstood and he just went and said "fuck it" and dropped it.
I sympathyse with the way he replaced out since i used to make such emotional replace outs a lot in the past.

[Sakura Hana]

Who was metalcyanide again? croboss?
I don't remember much about him, i should ISO him.

Also, hi Drezi

[Sakura Hana]

Also is it just me or the misreps in this game are... pretty strong, and everyone seems to be following them for no reason.

[Sakura Hana]

I can agree for now on SC. *anti-town* House does give out townreads and does look for townslips.

EBWOP

So you've played with him before?

[Sakura Hana]

Also is it just me or the misreps in this game are... pretty strong, and everyone seems to be following them for no reason.

I get what you're saying, but I think "misreps" later in the game are really what you want to watch out for. But on day 1, when we are fishing for reactions,

some

level of exaggeration adds some coals to the fire to get us the reactions we need. Walking on eggshells or being timid won't get us there.

So basically you were baiting for reactions with your misrep? And how would you expect Town Dooku to react to your misrepresentations?

[Sakura Hana]

Yes, that was the point

Wrong.
The point you were trying to make was that Scum-House would be capable of doing such actions, not that Scum "in general" were capable of doing such actions as you mentioned here:

I meta'd him and read several of his games.

I'm based my townread of what i perceive as general behavour of town and scum based from many games of experience, and tbh i've never seen scum hunt for townslips (even for towncred, sorry House), if you have meta evidence that scum-House is capable of doing such then it is your job to present them.

Its actually sounds like a softclaim in 631, to be frank.

This pings me. I don't see why any town would bring forth a possible soft-claim when such person hasn't died yet
It's scum's job to hunt for PRs, it's town's job to hunt for scum.

Unvote
Vote: pisskop

[Sakura Hana]

So the concept of buddying the town as scum is foreign to you?

When scum is buddying they do so by following an agenda (Ex: Me getting on Nacho's good side right off the bat on the game you linked), Finding townslips is different because scum can't predict people's movements, town notices such things much more easily.

It certainly is not my job to walk you through his meta. Im not pushing him or defending him. You are welcome to go look or ask him.

Oh i thought you were trying to destroy my townread of him, very well then.

I dont see why you would quote my post out of context, or why scum would mention it publicly.
. You've just accused me of bad townplay, not scumplay.

I'm not gonna go into more depth about it, but you trying to point out possible soft claims instead of letting them go doesn't help town, helps scum instead. When someone has died and then people wonder the "why" they died is when town goes look for soft/hard-claims PR-slips, etc.

Your concept of town/scum is that of transparent naiveity

The heck is that even supposed to mean? Are you calling me naive?

your reads are generalized, innaccuate, and supported by a couple (2) of small posts apiece

I didn't go and quote every single post, I just went through their ISO and summarized it right at the end of each spoiler, are you really that blind?

You are an experienced scum player who placed into a

townslot

, and will be put down as such.

FTFY.
I don't really give a crap if you townread me or scumread me, it's a faked read anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

for pisskop bringing up soft

I don't see why any town would bring forth a

possible

soft-claim when such person hasn't died yet
It's scum's job to hunt for PRs, it's town's job to hunt for scum.
Unvote
Vote: pisskop

while

248 and 241 together in such quick succession is softclaiming IC to me.

no mention of this and townread?

Also there was no mention of croboss in your reads before, can you share your thoughts now wrt that whole debate around him?

I must have missed that through my readthrough and ISOing, i thought back then most of the discussion about setup spec was meh so i skimmed it.
Haven't checked croboss yet I've been half busy yesterday and will be busy today since i have some friends coming over, I promise i'll make one by tomorrow (real life) tho!

Townslips can be retractred; especially when they are qualified with uncertain words. i.e:

IRT second part: This could be a townslip.

All giving somebody a townslip is in early game is is the equivalent of a smile and handshake. It means little to say somebody is may be townslipping. The very nature of 'slipping' requires and implies faulty play.
. I make points to praise others for their 'towny' posts as scum, and I know others do as well. This idea that House is town because he said nice things to people is ludicrous.
House has, as explained earlier, a style that is purposely obfuscating; making simply reading him at face value silly.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5862595 Well here you can find a nice example of finding townslips (It also made me reverse my read on talah on that game).
Why am I even arguing with you about this is beyond me tho, this is just a single point out of all i mentioned about House, it feels like you're trying to strawman me just like acryon did to Dooku.

Do you have more on Acryon? I don't disagree with your assessment of it.

Still looks scummy to me.

Is your CD/Reminiscence read independent of Acryon or whatever read you have on me?

Yes, as it's too early to make associations, specially without any flips, so all of my reads are independent of each other.

[Sakura Hana]

ftr tho, most of my reads from a readthrough are usually pretty weak, im better at forming reads from interaction rather than just simply reading the game that happened before i replaced in.

[Sakura Hana]

Btw, the fact that you're refraining from explaining tells me that your slot is either PR or scum

... this game ....

[Sakura Hana]

Seems like everyone in this game is just derp so i might be wrong about pisskop, so i'll go back to acryon!

Unvote
Vote: acryon

[Sakura Hana]

Hey, Sakura, did you notice the wagon on Dooku, and the nonwagon on Acryon before 595?

Yes i did.

[Sakura Hana]

Anyway, that (or rather this) will be the last post i will have time to make today, maybe i'll have time to post something tonight before i sleep, otherwise i'll be back tomorrow morning.

[Sakura Hana]

I can see why there have been calls to kill my slot, Crosboss has played a very bad game.

Hi there Amished tell.

Unvote
Vote: Metalcyanide

[Sakura Hana]

It took you a hundred posts to pick up on a shitty tell?

No, i Hadn't read croboss/metal's posts yet i read them this morning as promised and that's what i found out, also the tell is not shitty, i've caught scum with it 2 times out of 2.

[Sakura Hana]

hi boys and girls my name in nacho and I will be catching up in this game here probably over the course of a week

Please be town

also please don't flake

[Sakura Hana]

Am i the only one here that thinks it's better to lynch the amished tell or the strawman instead of the person that reacted badly to the strawman?

[Sakura Hana]

I even liked the way he inquired Dooku with all the Rach thing.

Huh, so you liked his strawman?

[Sakura Hana]

but I think your follow-up in 653 is not a real answer.

I finished that off in 656, when i notice that everyone's being derp like that.

The comments I made regarding his comment and the connection to Rach were completely legitimate.

Wrong, He made a general statement which was pretty clear, and even explained it, when he got reminded off it from Rach's post, even I could see that from an outsider point of view when i was following this game.

The only thing that is questionable is the nefarious intent behind it. And that's because of what I explained before. It makes way more sense and gets way more informative reactions to question someone with "Hey what did you mean by this? Seems like you're trying to do X" than "Hey what did you mean by this?" For town, the two are pretty close to equal in terms of difficulty of answering, and for scum, the former is much more annoying to answer. I like somewhat pointed questions significantly more than totally open-ended ones.

Wrong again.
None of your pressure or digging or whatever you wanna call it if it wasn't a strawman was anywhere about figuring out Dooku's alignment, it was more of the intent of making Dooku look bad despite he making a legitimate statement "It's easy to make a townie Catch-up post" to warn us. When i look at your reasoning "Because he quoted Rach, he's trying to warn us about Rach, since no one else mentioned catch up posts" It looks to me like you're just taking a portion of his statement "He quoted Rach" and ignore everything else to try to put pressure on there, this is called a Strawman, and is one of the tactics i used back on Madoka (The game Drezi's talking about where i replaced in and made a super townie catch up post) to shift the lynch from me to someone else.

[Sakura Hana]

Basically, the two of us each have our perspective, and we are both making assumptions on the intent of his post. So it's a little disingenuous to act like you are operating off of truth and I am operating off of assumption, when we are both operating off of the latter. Just because our perspectives disagree doesn't mean I'm perpetuating a fallacy. Acting like his post had no possible intentional connection to Rach is at least as bad as acting like it's the only possibility. Although your's is actually worse since it's a perspective that leads to an action with less pressure than mine.

Oh?
And isn't that exactly what you did when

he himself explained that it was a general statement that he made?

, It seems that im the one going off the truth and you're the one basing it on an assumption.

[Sakura Hana]

It can be noticed easily just by looking at the sequence of posts.

I will try to catch up all

Nice.

@everyone
I want you guys to keep in mind while you read these catch-up posts that it is easier to make catch-up posts/reads look towny.

He makes the statement.

It just sort of seems like your intention with the timing of that comment was to A) make town-Rach look bad to the town before she even gets her first real post, or B) coaching to scum-Rach to be careful about her catch-up post. I feel A) is far more likely.

You are already pegging him for a scum intention without clear knowledge of what he's going for.

Who was talking about Rach? I was talking about the cath-up posts.
Not Rach is the only one who will catch up.

He explains that he made a general statement.

Well you did post it shortly after her catch-up intent and quoted her on the same post.

You already proceed to discredit his statement, and twist it to your own views.

And what? It is ridiculous. Everything I say in one post have to be related?!
Of course I was talking about her too. But not only about her. Deathfisaro and croboss will do a cath up for example (at least I hope they will).

He explains again that it was a general statement.

I mean she posted saying that she was going to catch up. You quote that post and mention that we should be skeptical of catch up posts. Is it actually far-fetched that I relate the two? And she is the only one that actually mentioned a catch-up post as far as I can tell, so I feel like anyone would look at that post and assume you were talking (at least mostly) about her.

You continue to be stubborn that it has to be

your way

. Despite he already explaining himself.

When did I say "be careful with Rach Marie's cath up posts"? Yes. Be careful with them. But not only with them... with every cath up, generally.
It became appropriate when she said that she will do a cath up, so I reminded you.

He explains himself for a third time (I'm surprised he's even still trying to make you understand by this point, if it were me i'd probably would have exploded).

I want to stop this pointless discussion. I don't have anything more to say about it. Vote me, lynch me, stop it.

Then he eventually gets fed up with the discussion, because it is indeed a pointless discussion.

@Dukoo, for the record, I agree with people who claim your 354 is suspect. Whether you meant it that way or not, your post came across as applying at least MOSTLY to Rach.

Then more misunderstandings happen.

I don't even care. I did everything I could, answered every questions (I think).
Lynch me, at least after I flip everyone will see that Riabi, you, Victor, House and Lalendra were talking shit.

This, coupled with his replace out post, seems like he was fed up with people misunderstanding him and wanting him lynched for it.

[Sakura Hana]

Do I really have to explain how you and I disagreeing about what someone else said is different than me questioning the actual person about it? Do I also have to explain that I'm not going to take statements of explanation by an individual in question at face value, especially those said by people I suspect?

I'm taking what i see from the situation, he made his post, you twist it, then convince everyone that the twisted one version is the truth, he gets fed up with the misreps and replaces out.
Where along this line have you ever considered the possibility of Town Dooku going exactly for what he explained he did as a possibility?

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: Sakura Hana

If you think naked votes faze me you're wrong.
Tho if you want to lynch me i at least want to interact with everyone before then so i can have some decent reads before i die.
Specially Nacho

[Sakura Hana]

She never did explain what she meant in post 676, maybe everyone else is more familiar with this term and was able to understand what she meant better than I was just by reading the wiki on Amished, but I don't like that she ignored my request for clarification.

I thought it would be obvious, since we were just discussing how bad it was for town people to point out who the PRs are, as town don't care who they are, only scum should be hunting for them, but then you did exactly the same thing by pointing out that dooku was a PR, so i just realized that everyone in this game decided to play dumb and so i went back to acryon since i no longer had a reason to be on pisskop.

[Sakura Hana]

She never did explain what she meant in post 676, maybe everyone else is more familiar with this term and was able to understand what she meant better than I was just by reading the wiki on Amished, but I don't like that she ignored my request for clarification.

I thought it would be obvious, since we were just discussing how bad it was for town people to point out who the PRs are, as town don't care who they are, only scum should be hunting for them, but then you did exactly the same thing by pointing out that dooku was a PR, so i just realized that everyone in this game decided to play dumb and so i went back to acryon since i no longer had a reason to be on pisskop.

Oh wait i was thinking of the wrong post derp.
Amished tell, is when a replacement complains about how his predecessor's play was bad and that's why he can be lynched for it, etc, etc. It's usually some sort of AtE done by scum who replaces into a scum slot that was... playing scummy.

[Sakura Hana]

Or your other favored lynch. If they flip, town or scum, what are you going to do with that information?

Well there are some people that have high chance of being scum (like Metalcyanide) but won't give any info if they are town, if i'd go for an informational lynch i'd go for acryon more since it would clear up that strawman issue once and for all.

[Sakura Hana]

Tbh tho, my scumread on acryon has weakened quite a lot, if not for the fact that he managed to make someone replace out of frustration, but at least he seems to be legitimatelly thinking that he had caught scum, for someone with half a year of experience that seems more likely, what bothers me is that he never tried to see other possibilities and then... he would see that dooku's actions make total sense if he looks at it the other way.

[Sakura Hana]

I doubt there is much she can do to convince me that her slot (deathfisario) isn't scum.

Sigh really, nothing i've done since replacing in has changed your mind at all?

[Sakura Hana]

Guess i'll never get the answer i needed and the replacement can't talk for him about such things orz.
Why is it so hard for people to follow such a simple rule about ongoing games.
Anyway
@Nacho: I appreciate the townread, but what i don't get is why you're putting me as town so quick after i've fooled you as scum before, specially since my town game has downgraded after rolling scum 3 times in a row.

[Sakura Hana]

Looking at this votecount

Votecount 1.15

Reminiscence - 4 - VictorDeAngelo, Lalendra, Riabi, Metalcyanide
Metalcyanide - 3 - SIR CYANIDE, Drezi, Sakura Hana
Sakura Hana - 3 - NJAC, Reminiscence, House
SIR CYANIDE - 1 - Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, pisskop

6 days away from deadline and we aren't even close to reaching a compromise.
While i'd love to get metal lynched due to the amished tell, if i need to be lynched as a compromise so be it. This game is starting to tire me because everyone keeps saying im scummy but doesnt vote me in the end.

[Sakura Hana]

What's with all the replace outs u.u srsly
If anything it makes it harder for me to form any solid reads.

[Sakura Hana]

Let's go 3 for 3 (Well technically the tell has worked 3 times if I count the time i learned about it when it was used against me).

On the other hand, i get better reads by interaction rather than by reading other's interactions amongst themselves, and just when i was questioning acryon he gets force replaced, at least i wasn't working on my VDA read yet, but this ammount of replace outs is annoying me @_@

[Sakura Hana]

So aside from me who else falls into your scum list and why?

Acryon was until i started interacting with him, made my scumread on him weaken because he seemed to seriously believe he was doing scumhunting, too bad i never got an answer for my last question tho.
Aside from that, the other people i've interacted with, pisskop and house feel town, SC was a townread from my readthrough but i haven't interacted at all with him ever since, and the others just feel like wild cards, lalendra seems to be pinged by everything that moves, and then we have the lurkers/replaced out people.

So I haven't made much progress in the term of finding scum, but at least im finding town, which is as good.

[Sakura Hana]

I would hate to be the reason your record is ruined, Hana.

There's not much you can do to make me think otherwise when I've already seen you commit the infamous amished tell, it is THAT strong, however it only works once per player.

[Sakura Hana]

That survivalistic play would be the last thing i'd expect someone that claimed VT to do when put at L-1, So i don't believe your VT claim.

[Sakura Hana]

Is anyone town reading you?

I am, so what?

When I go really look at Reminiscence, Sakura Hana and I'm guessing House.

You guys will know if Lal is scum or not

Sir Cyanide whether or not you're scum do the Cyanide name proud

Why didn't you do this instead of going for a survivalistic play?

What's your case on Reminiscence? Why didn't you vote there before?

That's what i was wondering tbh.

his exit from the game was weird as hell

I thought his exit was out of frustration (as i explained before), what was weird about it?

[Sakura Hana]

Considering i'm townreading you tho, I don't see why town would scumread you, I don't get what's that you see that scum loves about your play, chaotic doesn't equal scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Tbh tho, i don't see Metal flipping town like at all, i don't understand his last vote switch unless he's hoping people will switch bandwagons.

PEd: You're not mudding the waters when you're pressuring people left and right to get your reads.

PEd2: Isn't croboss the one metal replaced?

[Sakura Hana]

Bah, never thought i'd see the day where the amished tell would fail me.

Vote: Drezi

I bet it was you.

What, why Drezi?

827 & 828 makes me think the NK was pisskop's decision.

VOTE: pisskop

Why?

pfp so limited

Why SK was killed over others
1) his pr discussion
2) he was scumreading the whole scumteam
3) he was 'safe'

1 n 3 please.

This is getting into WIFOM discussion.

because to me town should be hunting scum and not hunting town - although I do see reason to "hunt town" it just seems less effective

From personal experience it can be as effective if not more effective depending on the person.

#4 asking questions to generate discussion - nulltell as I said with Nacho ISO - however this could fit in to the "trying to look like they are contributing scum" label I gave NJAC earlier.

So why does this make NJAC "trying to look like contributing" scum rather than just simply "contributing" town?

#5 is posting reads without reasoning - again perhaps trying to look like they're contributing while they actually are contributing very little. against asks a question to perhaps look like theyre "generating discussion"

I do agree with this tho.

#6 the personal attack wasn't necessary - adds nothing - also if I look at it from a biased view that I believe NJAC is scum it could be scum trying to discourage a townie to perhaps make them try less and make mafias job easier. for this reason - there is no way NJAC and the croboss slot are scum together - if NJAC is scum croboss isn't and vice versa - if NJAC is town it doesn't mean croboss is mafia however I think if croboss is town NJAC is likely mafia. - actually just read the flip - croboss was town - so I heavily suspect NJAC as scum for this attack - also note how NJAC wasn't on the final wagon? I doubt all 3 mafia would be on the town wagon - so I believe NJAC to be the scum that wasn't on it. HOS - NJAC (will vote after ISOing everyone to ensure I don't have a greater suspect)

I don't see a personal attack? which game are you reading?

#7 if NJAC flips scum this could be potential distancing - this post seems very odd to me - I could buy a NJAC/Riabi scumteam - this is a very subtle attack that is done without actually having to commit to everything - going to note this for when one of these two flip.

What. How the hell is that distancing?

#8 this feels really weird - doesn't really provide much of a reason as to why corboss isn't lynchbait other than "he has to answer questions" which again isn't really a valid counter to the fact of croboss being lynchbait.

Tho the way it was worded is weird, I agree with this.

#9 lining up lynches - nulltell although from this I doubt NJAC and fisaro are scum together.

That's not lining up lynches if it requires a scum flip to proceed.

#17 omg this looks like scum explaining how they're playing to try and gain themselves townpoints - note how they say "asking lots of questions" is a towntell? look at what they've been doing all game - asking questions (I can see how you can flip this to how NJAC oouldve just proven themselves as town here but I don't buy it - it just seems that with the rest of theyre posts they are trying to make themselves look better without making it too obvious)

If that's what he perceives as town, then it could be faked, but you will have to dig way deeper than that to show whether he's pretending to be town or just... being town, and that's when you dig into the motivation, as in so far, most of his questions have been oriented to determine people's alignments, not filler (with a couple exceptions) nor pointless, so i don't see how he could be pretending to be town here.

#18 more defense of the Dooku slot - NJAC flips scum Dooku is almost definitely town as this kinda looks like scum buddying town - but again need a flip to determine that so that is speculation.

Dooku is town for other reasons... which you seem to have missed at the end of this post... which apparently gave you the idea of dooku being scum, now which one is it? NJAC or Dooku? or both? or none? It's kinda hard to get a clear answer just from your post.

[Sakura Hana]

Must be punished...

This seems more like you're pushing for a PL rather than because you think ika's scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Why?

He voted his counterwagon when he was about to die, instead of give reads and stuff, he did give reads, etc but it was AFTER i mentioned that.

[Sakura Hana]

@AM: Your case on me is just bad. If you want me to answer something please ask.

What's bad about it? I dissected it earlier, but i would like to know YOUR opinion on it. Despite a lot of stuff being lame, he's a new player and has a couple of actual good points.

[Sakura Hana]

What are your reads? What do you think of Ika?

Ika's town.

What makes you think he's a new player?

Post count.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't think he's got a single good point.

Then it should be easy for you to refute them right?

[Sakura Hana]

I'm still waiting for your reads, btw.

Sorry, I kinda went off after that reply and then i was busy yesterday.
Townreading ika, House and Drezi.
Not liking AM and Albert, that strawman acryon pulled is still pretty strong, and his recent vote on me without any sort of reasoning other than (we need a counter wagon) while scumreading you is really odd.

[Sakura Hana]

@Hana: Why is Ika town?

Almost missed this too.
Ika's town because of Count dooku's play.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh yeah, i almost forgot about NJAC's whole "Don't want to adress the case, but i'll just say it's bad" stuff, the vote because of hammer sadly is something i expected to see, it happens all the time.
Do you have any other reads Nacho?

[Sakura Hana]

If I had to guess, House would be town thanks to how that exchange is equally lacking in logic and scum motivation.

I agree, but not only from that exchange, but his overall play has been mostly pressuring others and trying to determine alignment with said pressure.

[Sakura Hana]

You said last time that you townread my entrance, I wanna know why, because A) You know that im pretty good as scum, B) I know how you play as scum and C) I know that if you're town we can steamroll over scum easily.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh hold your horses, it's a quickhammer by someone who just replaced in, also you specifically asked not to lynch Metal before you have to chance to contribute, he did it anyway and now you're here saying how stupid it is to vote him?

Well if i take a wild guess, he hadn't read, so he hadn't seen Nacho's post, can't blame him in that regard.
Worst thing is, knowing ika i can see him doing that as either alignment.

What I do wonder is why you haven't tried to interact with me at all, knowing i form reads from interaction, you haven't questioned my town read on you i gave earlier without any interaction with you at all, and specially after what happened in Madoka.

[Sakura Hana]

I was referring to the number of people who are rivals to Sakura, which, to the best of my knowledge and memory, is zero.

What is this supposed to mean?

[Sakura Hana]

I admit, I do want to hear ika's reasoning for the hammer, but as I said earlier Dooku's play was town. From my PoV he looks like someone who just hammered someone and they flipped town, got scared and ran away. Scum would've already known what they were getting into.

[Sakura Hana]

as town, what makes this play less likely is the fact that a townie normally wouldn't just go and get someone lynched without establishing a read (he just replaced in, wasn't in the game before) and deducing that there's a better than average chance of lynching scum. for scum it makes no difference obviously.

Well, it IS ika we've been talking about, I replaced out of 2 games before (Town slot) and he took over and almost managed to make everyone to reverse their townreads on my slot, one of them was Hope+1 the other was Plants vs Zombies (which got cancelled).

[Sakura Hana]

Oh yeah, and Nacho's prob town too.
That leaves Riabi, Lalendra, pisskop, as people I haven't sorted out yet.

Vote: NJAC

This is where i shall vote for now.

[Sakura Hana]

Hana. Do you have a take on Riabi?

Yeah i'm not liking Riabi much either, i went through his ISO because you asked and i couldn't remember anything about him and most of the stuff i turned up with was... a wishy washy post, a V/LA and some random comments on the game...

[Sakura Hana]

Still tho, i don't like how NJAC called AM's case bad but refused to refute it's points because "he's still catching up" AM never finished and NJAC never came to refute them.
Inb4 both are scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Is it too late to WotC ika?...

[Sakura Hana]

How many lynches do we have left? Is it possible to PL ika tomorrow even if it takes us to LyLo? or is it LyLo tomorrow...

Also FFS, ika, i do not want to play with you ever again.

[Sakura Hana]

Unless someone's a vig and takes out Ika...

[Sakura Hana]

No, we're PLing ika first, just in case i die tonight since im conftown now.
Reads:
Town: Drezi, Nacho, House, maaaybe ika (ika's play has starting to make me doubt my read on him).
Scum: AM, maaaaybe pisskop, maaaybe Riabi.

Would've been nice if NJAC also left some reads before the thread is locked

[Sakura Hana]

huh, why did nacho kill me when he knows he can fool me easily.