Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over

[Lalendra]

Do you think people will townread you for asking dumb questions?

You really ARE House...

[Lalendra]

Okay someone who is not Drezi, Victor, or croboss give me a good town reason to build a half lynch wagon on the first page.

I can see how scum can benefit from such actions

but hard to find a reason for me join in.

How can scum possibly benefit from it? Serious question.

Scum benefit if the wagon is on a townie. Because wagoning/potentially lynching a townie is obviously good for scum.

I really don't think anyone is going to wagon someone in rvs to the extent where it could lead to a hammer outside of policy lynches (do these even happen anymore?) and newbie games. We don't really have any information, wagoning on someone may give us more information so I think it's pro-town.

I don't really think that wagoning gives enough information to make it worth it, and statistically, scum have the advantage with a quicklynch; if you're going to randomly kill one person, and half of the game is town, then the odds are good that it'll be a mislynch. I'm inclined to agree that it's beneficial for scum.

[Lalendra]

When have you ever seen a quicklynch outside of newbie games? They don't happen. People say they do, but they don't. Give me

two

quicklynches that happened outside of newbie games and marathon games in the past 3 years. What you're saying with the 'not worth it' line is that on a risk/reward equivalent base you think the risk is higher than the reward on average but seeing as the odds for a quicklynch happening are so astronomical I have to disagree.

Additionally, if someone hammers you can make a very strong point for them being scum if the person who's hammered flips town. Trading 1 town for an almost-certain-scum is still worth it in my book.

I can't give you any examples, I'm still quite new to the game. I wasn't aware that quicklynches were as uncommon as you say they are, but I feel that if one was to happen, it would still be anti-town. Your "the risk isn't higher than the reward because it's not going to happen" argument makes sense, but that doesn't change how I feel about quicklynches as a thing that MAY happen. What if the last 3 voters were scum? Sure it would make them look scummy when that player flipped town, unless they had some real solid reasoning for why they voted for them. If it doesn't happen, though, so much the better for us, because as I said, the odds are against town if it were to come off.

Worse, you may not get shot for it because you're more likely to be vanilla town if you mispredicted the set-up. You stated 'innocent child, tracker, 20/80 something/something', guess what if there is no tracker?

Why isn't it possible for scum to throw out misinformation? I.e., if there's no tracker, that could be VT mispredicting the setup, or scum deliberately misrepresenting the setup in an effort to feign ignorance and seem towny. Both seem equally likely. The amount of thought you're putting into this makes me uneasy, and this post reads like a setup.

I went through more open games (about 7 I think?) in addition to the ones I already went through and literally all of them have IC so I think that's a safe assumption to make.

A safe assumption to make, OR this is scum who knows that there is an IC and is trying to rationalize why he might know that so that when the IC is discovered, and it seems like he knew too much, he can just go "well I said right in this post here that I was just assuming based on the completed games!"

VOTE: Sir Cyanide

[Lalendra]

Well, now we do heavily suspect the set-up to have an IC, right? Does anyone actually disagree with this? If there is anyone who thinks it's unlikely for this game to have an IC, please speak up and give your reasoning.

The odds are good that there is one, however it's just as likely that if IC is as common as you say, that scum might have deliberately NOT picked IC as one of the PRs just to throw us off.

[Lalendra]

There's no direct impact but I think we should devote some posts to discuss what optimal IC strategy is. The IC may not directly know what his/her optimal play is, so I feel we should discuss the protocol for the IC's claim. Why are people against this?

This is ridiculous. It's not like the IC has any actual abilities outside of becoming confirmed town.

The strategy for IC is pants-shittingly obvious. Play a town game and don't claim unless run up, because an IC is instant NK bait & nothing more than a named townie once outed.

You harping on about something so simplistic makes me think you're just trying to look invested without actually being productive at all.

I was wondering the same thing, I don't really see what purpose the IC would serve other than becoming NK bait. Then again, I've never played a game with an IC before so I don't know if there are better tactics that he/she could use.

[Lalendra]

Hammerer: claim
IC: I'm IC
Hammerer: pm to mods so we know you are IC
Wagonners: yeah go pm the mods
IC: no, I'll do it first thing next day
Hammerer: no, you have to pm the mod or you're getting a hammer
IC: I'll do it the first thing next day, we're not in LyLo, if I don't do it the next day you can still lynch me, blahblahblah
Hammerer&Wagonners: *more discussion ensues*
Wagonners: unvote: IC

Wagonners: vote Player2 (L-1)
Player2: actually I'm IC
...
Player3: no, actually I'm IC

I AM SPARTACUS.

Except in this example, the mod can confirm who is actually the IC.

[Lalendra]

True (and wifom'ish but nearly everything is wifom'ish so whatever), but it is unlikely that the mafia predicted that there would be such an elaborate amount of discussion about the set-up and may have concluded that the value they gain from having an inferior PR (or at least deemed inferior by popular opinion) outweighs the value they lose from being predictable.

My playstyle is pretty WIFOMish in general, so it's probably best to just get used to that. I try to analyze all sides of the situation and frequently end up going in circles.

You're being overly obsessed with IC when there's no reason to. I'm sorry if there's IC in this game that I find IC the most disposable PR out of all 5.

It is quite disposable, which is why scum are likely to have picked one - unless, as I stated earlier, they deliberately didn't pick one just to throw us off.

You're not as smart as you think you are, so do us all a favor and stop acting like a condescending jerk (or I WILL vote you ), this game is meant to be recreational and fun.

I don't think he's that condescending IRL, it's just part of the online persona. I don't find him offensive because it's an act. It's too bad being a dick isn't alignment-indicative or he'd be pinging my scumdar hardcore.

Yes, which is ridiculous. I agree that it is silly that I came into the game for real on page 8 and had little to comment on other than a pile of setup discussion. Only scum gains from that. There should be more pushing for reactions, which town wins from.

While I have you here, do you honestly think 177 comes from scum?

I know this question is probably not directed at me, but I have rarely seen more obvscum. Lets take a look:

(you guys post wayyy too much i can hardly catch up)

Disinterested. Doesn't feel like reading all of the text and is justifying it here. You can easily catch up, it's just a matter of reading the words. It's not a difficult concept.

Who actually claimed IC?

Nobody claimed IC, which he doesn't know because he only skimmed through the topic and saw a lot of IC this IC that.

I can't find it where someone actually claimed?

Because he didn't even search, reading any post what-so-ever would tell him that. Because I'm a lazy piece of shit as well in general I know this tactic and it's one I often employ myself.

House: I feel like he knows what he's doing and is smart about it, but he's also seems authoritative and gets angered fairly easily.

A random comment, he was going to 'post his thoughts' and after all those pages this is the only thing he comes up with.

Thats the only person that really stood out to me hopefully I can dig deeper. (haha I guess I'm pretty bad at mafia)

He is not digging deeper, he is once again trying to justify his lack of investment by promising us he will 'dig deeper' (which he probably won't). He finishes it with another justification ('haha im bad at mafia'). Basically this entire post is him apologizing/trying to get away with the fact that he can't be fucked to actually read through the topic and play the god damn game.

Now, there is an

EXTREME

correlation between his behavior and being scum.

I don't know, bad play =/= scummy play; while I'm not giving him a townread, I also think that his post is less scum play, and more bad/lazy play.

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[Lalendra]

I accidentally copied Acryon's post instead of quoting it. Everything between "pinging my scumdar hardcore" and "I don't know, bad play =/= scummy play" should have been a quote. </3

[Lalendra]

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

Thank you!

[Lalendra]

Ok @croboss: Let's say you're not scum, who's scum then? And who do you think is town?

Also, what discussion were you expecting to generate with your vote on SC? Why exactly did you unvote him? Was the discussion you wanted already generated?

I don't know, I find myself fairly bad at determining reads.

I was expecting to create enough disccusion so I could create another post, which could then lead me to make a few more.. I unvoted because I have nothing agaisnt him. The discussion I wanted was already generated because of my earlier post where I conclude my theory.

The reason I jumped on the biggest wagon is because it is likely to produce the most discussion if you near someone that one step closer to a lynch then just randomly doing it on someone with no votes.

I don't know if that's true, making a vote on someone who has no votes on them, particularly if it's a naked vote or one with weak evidence, can generate a great deal of discussion - it might just not be the kind of discussion you're hoping for.

I don't think he's that condescending IRL, it's just part of the online persona.

Time out... were you at TitusMeet?

No, I just read the "Get to know House" thread in your sig. Well, some of it...there was a lot.

[Lalendra]

Because it's on you, and I'm not convinced that your generally erratic and abrasive town play is completely responsible. I want to see Death and Rach before I start shifting gears, too.
I liked your 258, though. When you posted it it looked too convoluted to be anything more than poor clutching, but it has its merits.
. In addition, stagnation of a game comes in large part because scum are fairly happy with the game. They would, and have fight the apathy should they stand to lose.
And I don't see a House Dooku ScumTeam. So its not all bad.

I can be as scummy as I want to be, actually.

Is this an admission of scumminess?

What did you mean when you said this? If you were going to be translated for somebody who had never played mafia before, what would you say
You seem much more confident than in previous games of yours. A lot of what I saw as idealism has left in favor of a more predatory flavor.

Especially because Riabi didn't join the IC debate.

About that debate. Do you think scum are more likely to encourage, ignore, or actively try to smush setup debates like that? It obviously helps them, but if all the world's a stage.

Can be more specific about what you didn't like here?

Why isn't it possible for scum to throw out misinformation? I.e., if there's no tracker, that could be VT mispredicting the setup, or scum deliberately misrepresenting the setup in an effort to feign ignorance and seem towny. Both seem equally likely. The amount of thought you're putting into this makes me uneasy, and this post reads like a setup.

A safe assumption to make, OR this is scum who knows that there is an IC and is trying to rationalize why he might know that so that when the IC is discovered, and it seems like he knew too much, he can just go "well I said right in this post here that I was just assuming based on the completed games!"

This. I was confrontation and attempts criticize SC's abstract with further abstraction. In general, the more complex the wifom, the less likely it is to be true. Her posting after suggests she hadn't meant to draw heat, and her other scum games that I know about don't quite sync up with here. She is read as nulltown at this point; and is in fact due in for a checkup.

You're right, I definitely am. I've been reading but haven't posted anything. I'm working now but will check in with more substance later.

[Lalendra]

Lal, Croboss, and Death

-Can we get an update?

-Please share your thoughts wrt to:
. .Riabi v House
. .Count Dooku (and Drezi)
. .Victor, acyron, Rach, NJAC, Death

-Opinions of the tree leading wagons? [Croboss][House][Sir Cyanide]

Riabi v House - Riabi is nulltown at the moment; while I don’t agree with everything he has said, it appears that he is actively trying to sort things out, and he is just generally giving me a towny vibe. I think House was really reaching in 251, and I liked Riabi’s response to it in 266. House has little to say aside from casting votes every which way – eight of them, if I counted correctly – and making snarky comments; I do think that if he was truly scum he wouldn't be so unapologetic about it. He is scummy to the max, but not necessarily scum. I liked a few of the points he did make, so I wish he’d make more of them, but I need less reaction-voting and more real content to go off of.

Count Dooku and Drezi - Count Dooku is nulltown. People expressed problems with 59, but it didn’t seem off to me; yes, there’s no black-and-white RVS-or-not line, but that was just his POV. After re-reading croboss’s posts, I am starting to see a bit more of what Dooku saw in him; I don’t think the “LOL I’M SO BAD” posts are exceptionally scummy, just dumb, but I really don’t like the way he has peaced out since people started scumreading him – seems like a scum player trying to lay low and take some of the heat off of himself. (Side note – someone define “PL reason” for me please?)

But I didn't understand why scum cannot fakeclaim IC.

Because all the IC has to do is ask the mod to confirm that they are IC to prove their claim. If the mod doesn’t back up their claim, it’s pretty clear that it’s a fakeclaim, and thus, super scummy.
Drezi participated a lot in the IC discussion, and has taken Dooku and House to task, but I would be interested in hearing more about his reads on others. Drezi and Dooku are on different sides of the croboss debate, but neither one of them is really striking me as scum at the moment; they both appear to be genuinely trying to figure things out and just looking at it differently.
Victor - Not sure on this one, the posts are nulltown but I have a weird gut feeling about him. We appear to be in agreement regarding Sir Cyanide, and we were in agreement about croboss as well, but I’m not crazy about his apparent lack of interest in the game. I was starting to think he was lurking, but then after a couple of days and a few glasses of wine he came back with a vengeance.
Acryon – I actually really like almost all of his points. The only thing that sketched me out a little is his intentional vagueness; however, the fact that he points it out on his own, instead of waiting for someone to call him out on it, makes me want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Pretty solid townread for now.
Rach – Needs to jump in here.
NJAC – Jokepost, double post, prod dodge, then didn’t say really anything that anyone else hadn’t said yet. Not really leaning either way yet as there hasn’t been a whole lot of original posting.
Death –

You scumread me when I'm town. I scumread you when you're town. We have zero chemistry together (unless you're scum this game looking for an easy target). Hope next time we meet, we are of opposite alignment so both of us feel good voting each other =P

This makes me feel icky. Why next time you meet? Why couldn’t you be of opposite alignments this game? It’s almost like you know who your teammates are or something…

As for the wagons:
House – Like I said, scummy but not necessarily scum. I feel as though scum would be more defensive, and not just roll with the punches when someone called them scummy. Without knowing a great deal about his meta, I don’t think he’s scum, just a snarky bastid.
Sir Cyanide – Still not liking all of the IC discussion, but at the moment I have bigger fish to fry; maybe I’ll come back to you D2.
Croboss - I was ready to defend him initially, but I really don't like the way he flaked when there was some heat on him. Can't even say it was just life getting in the way, because he was making posts, just not any with real content. @Croboss, explain to me why you're not scum plz.
VOTE: Croboss

[Lalendra]

PL

policy lynch

A lynch carried out out of principle or because you want to set an example that it is not okay to behave in a certain way. PL is 'lynch all liars' or 'lynch lurkers' or 'lynch trolls' or etc.

Thank you!

[Lalendra]

This makes me feel icky. Why next time you meet? Why couldn’t you be of opposite alignments this game? It’s almost like you know who your teammates are or something…

This is a nice catch, you know? Maybe even a scumslip. It's worth pursuing. When we finish with croboss, let's vote fisaro. Alright?

This does feel disingenuous, but I can't tell if it's sarcasm or not, so my response is, I've got bigger fish to fry right now (see below).

And what? It is ridiculous. Everything I say in one post have to be related?!

I mean generally, if the post is completely lacking in any sort of segue? YES. I don't buy your "It's so silly to assume that I meant JUST her" logic, this (and several subsequent posts) sounds like some serious backpedaling to me.

I want to stop this pointless discussion. I don't have anything more to say about it. Vote me, lynch me, stop it.

This, to me, clearly says he's giving up on arguing his point and is just going for the righteous-indignation stance instead of articulating his reasoning.

How do people feel about killing off Rach?

Don't want to kill someone off unless I have reason to; lurking is definitely not always alignment-indicative, and real life might just be getting in the way. I will wait for her catch-up post to decide.

How about c)
. His comment meant nothing to Rach.

Whether it meant something to her or not is largely irrelevant, it's more about whether he INTENDED it to mean something to her.

LOL

Again...seemingly out of arguments.

434 = shitposting

And again.

VOTE: Count Dooku

[Lalendra]

And what? It is ridiculous. Everything I say in one post have to be related?!

I mean generally, if the post is completely lacking in any sort of segue? YES. I don't buy your "It's so silly to assume that I meant JUST her" logic, this (and several subsequent posts) sounds like some serious backpedaling to me.

That is your problem. That was the truth. I meant her, and others. And actually I have never done anything that would prove the opposite. It is only you trying to make me look like a scum.

Mmmm...kay.

I want to stop this pointless discussion. I don't have anything more to say about it. Vote me, lynch me, stop it.

This, to me, clearly says he's giving up on arguing his point and is just going for the righteous-indignation stance instead of articulating his reasoning.

I have answered those silly questions sveral times, but they kept askig and asking them. It is pointless to spam pages with the same questions and answeres. But, it looks like you like to talk about the same topic again and agin and again, so if you want, I will answer all your questions about that topic. Ask them. If you want to spend more hours with that pointless discussion, then go ahead, and ask me.

This is actually the first I've said about it, but thank you for the blanket generalization.

How about c)
. His comment meant nothing to Rach.

Whether it meant something to her or not is largely irrelevant, it's more about whether he INTENDED it to mean something to her.

Yes, I intended to refer to Rach. But (I hate that I have to say the same things again and again, because you are asking the same bad and pointless questions again and again) not only to her, to others too, for example deathfisaro or croboss. And I told you it several times, but it looks like there is a problem with your grasp.

Again, this is the first time I've pointed it out - the problem is less with our grasp of your reasoning, and more with your inability to a) grasp our reasoning or b) defend your views with reason and logic, rather than just getting super-huffy and insulting.

LOL

Again...seemingly out of arguments.

My respond to House's post was explained just like the post and the scumread was explained itself.

I'm actually not sure what this means so I'm going to leave it alone, I will be happy to address it if you want to clarify.

434 = shitposting

And again.

Thank you for showing us that you didn't even read the thread. Had you read post 439, you would have known that I was going to explain it today.

Oh I read it, but I didn't agree that it was shitposting, and I'm not a huge fan of "I don't like this and neither should you but I'm not going to explain why until later" posts.

VOTE: Count Dooku

Nice scummy jump on the most recent wagon without stating anything real/genuine/original.

Pretty sure I laid out my reasoning above, but it seems that there is a problem with your grasp.

Dooku lynch go!

Fine by me.

Scumslip? When?

354

What the hell? You want to start this stupid conversation again? What's the matter with you guys? Are you high?

It is possible to reiterate your meaning, or link to past posts if you really feel that you've already answered that question - this level of indignance really seems unwarranted to me.

VOTE: Dooku

I like that everyone who is voting me has valid reasons behind it. (sarcasm)

Pretty sure he already laid out all of his reasons, the biggest of which being that he thought your reaction to his prodding was super scummy, and that you were being overly defensive (i.e. by saying that "everyone" thought it was scummy, when he clearly said that only some of us did.)

Searching for a replacement for croboss.

I have a friend who was hoping to replace in, Metalcyanide. I'll let him know that you're looking for someone.

[Lalendra]

I like acryon for town.

Can you elaborate?

Why get angry at all if you aren't feeling threatened by being called out?

Because this game supposed to be entertaining. When people ask you the same stupid questions, even when you answered them, it is not fun anymore.

That depends on your definition of fun, it's only not fun if you get emotional and angry about it.

It is funny that everyone suspects the more active players, and let the lurkers lurk.
I decided that I won't/rarely will introduce new topics in this game from now on; I think this is the only game her on ms, where everyone who talks about something new is going to be suspected.

AtE is the polite thing to call this - I call it whining.

Meh, that wouldn't be fair with the town.
So

@Mod I would like to replace out.

I really can't believe this went down this way. I am trying really hard to not hold it against his replacement, but it just seems to scream that he ran out of things to say to defend himself and was giving up the slot to someone else who might be able to talk their way out of the shitstorm that he got himself into.

[Lalendra]

@Reminiscence - What do you make of your predecessor's play? Why do you think he reacted the way he did? If it had been you, what would you have done/said differently?

[Lalendra]

@Reminiscence - What do you make of your predecessor's play? Why do you think he reacted the way he did? If it had been you, what would you have done/said differently?

I haven't read the whole thing but town.

I'm not sure what this means - are you saying his play was towny, or just claiming that the spot is town? I definitely can't agree with the first, and don't much agree with the second.

I think i know the reason but I will refrain from explaining.

Is there anything you can say about it, without giving anything away? (Btw, the fact that you're refraining from explaining tells me that your slot is either PR or scum, and I am more inclined to believe the latter.)

First of all I wouldn't have let people lynch me. I am kinda glad that he didn't threw the game and replaced out.

I mean in a perfect world, none of us would let ourselves get lynched. So you feel that he hasn't yet thrown the game for you/your slot? How do you plan to reverse people's reads on this slot as being scum?

[Lalendra]

Seems like everyone in this game is just derp so i might be wrong about pisskop, so i'll go back to acryon!

Unvote
Vote: acryon

Tell me why I'm derp then.

[Lalendra]

Well maybe now we can learn something about RachMarie's slot.

[Lalendra]

That last post was me - Metal used my computer for his last post and didn't log out, and I checked to see who was logged in but apparently I was using a different tab and checked before refreshing the page.

@Mod - is there any way to fix?

[Lalendra]

Ah, well. I reported the post as being under the wrong account, maybe it'll get removed.

[Lalendra]

I can see why there have been calls to kill my slot, Crosboss has played a very bad game.

Hi there Amished tell.

Unvote
Vote: Metalcyanide

Can you elaborate? Are you just implying that he is scum and has been screwed over by croboss's bad play, and that this post is proof of that? I'm not sure I read this the same way (note that I'm not saying I don't think the slot is scum, which is why my vote hasn't changed.)

Care to make a good case against one of them or are you scum that is unable to.

A good scum would be able to make a case either way - or at the very least, make it look like a good case. Solid cases for votes =/= town.

EBWOP

[Lalendra]

Also, do you think acryon is town or scum, and why?

And one more question: why aren't you voting scumHana/scumfisaro?

I'm getting a town vibe from Acryon, I don't agree with Hana's assessment of his reaction to Dooku's Rach post. He seems to be doing genuine digging and trying to actually get answers from people/reason his way through things, and just seems towny overall from the tenor of his posts. I agree that Hana might be scum, and I wouldn't be opposed to a lynch, but I'm far more convinced that Dooku's slot is scum, which is why my vote is still there for now. As for Death, I'd prefer to wait and see what his replacement has to say.

[Lalendra]

. As for Death, I'd prefer to wait and see what his replacement has to say.

Sakura Hana is Death.
Nacho is Rachmarie.

What do you think of Hana's entrance.

Ugh, there are so many replacements and lurkers in this game I can't keep up. Let me ISO Hana and get back to you in about 2 mins.

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Naked votes are boring. Can you give your reasoning? I am on the same page I think but would like to know the reasons for your scumread.

I'm taking what i see from the situation, he made his post, you twist it, then convince everyone that the twisted one version is the truth, he gets fed up with the misreps and replaces out.
Where along this line have you ever considered the possibility of Town Dooku going exactly for what he explained he did as a possibility?

I wouldn't say that Acryon convinced everyone via misrep - some of us (i.e., me) interpreted Dooku's post exactly the same way Acryon did. I didn't need it spelled out for me via misrep, I came to the same independent conclusion. And I don't necessarily think that Town Dooku couldn't have done that, but his backpedaling and blowing up at the end does not read towny to me.

In a world that makes "bootilicious" a word, perhaps. But I live in reality land where words have meaning, and faze is an illiterate knock off of phase.

*bootylicious

[Lalendra]

Ok so as for Hana's entrance.

I don't like the strawman argument in 595, perhaps it's because I agree with Acryon's read of Dooku's actions but I just feel like Hana is building a case on Acryon based on a misrep, and it's just not that strong. As Acryon pointed out, it is possible for two people to have different interpretations of the same action, and just because they don't agree doesn't necessarily mean that one is scum and one is town - I do, however, think that Hana is scum and Acryon is town.

The vote for pisskop in 637 makes sense to me, but then the switch back to Acryon in 657 feels forced. It might just be because she felt like she had more on Acryon than on pisskop, but that doesn't make much sense to me, given that she had far more interaction with pisskop than with Acryon up until that point.

I don't like her non-response in 661, Victor is asking a yes-no question but it's clearly to obtain information, and her giving a flat "Yes I did." by way of response is withholding. It's just one level up from ignoring his question entirely.

She never did explain what she meant in post 676, maybe everyone else is more familiar with this term and was able to understand what she meant better than I was just by reading the wiki on Amished, but I don't like that she ignored my request for clarification.

[Lalendra]

. As for Death, I'd prefer to wait and see what his replacement has to say.

Sakura Hana is Death.
Nacho is Rachmarie.

What do you think of Hana's entrance.

Hi pisskop!
Sakura's entrance looks pretty town so far! Do you agree or no?

Sort of an awkward segue into a read - I would say that this is blatant scumbuddying if not for the fact that it's just too damn obvious.

[Lalendra]

SC was a stupid NK. Im apt to believe it was somebody who SC townread/townread him.

Why was it stupid? And what is your reasoning for the second part?

[Lalendra]

I believed that slot was scum before, and I still believe it now.

VOTE: ika

[Lalendra]

@those voting ika (+Riabi included):

if ika is scum, who do you think the possible partners are?

Hana almost definitely - not sure on the other.

[Lalendra]

I would be pretty inclined to vote Ika right now if I didn't think he had a good possibility of being the vig. I don't really know who in their right mind doesn't shoot Ika after yesterday, meaning the him = vig possibility is more likely than it should be.

Given that he hammered conftown, I can see why scum wouldn't shoot him. Not sure I follow your logic.

"I thought Dooku was scummy. I thought Dooku's replace-out was scummy. I think the D1 hammer was scummy, and I think the D2 hammer is scummy. I've thought that slot was scummy from the get-go, I still do, and to be completely honest, your defense of that slot is confusing to me."
I screwed up the quote but THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE.

I don't know that there's anything that can convince me that slot is not scum, at this point.

VOTE: ika

[Lalendra]

I did not notice that until Drezi pointed it out. That seems like a pretty obvious scum slip to me.

unvote, vote Riabi

[Lalendra]

Ok, I'm an idiot and thought correcting "shoot" to "lynch" was an obvious scum slip because I was reading quickly and completely missed the fact that he claimed vig. So side no one has counterclaimed and he's conftown

unvote

And back to my biggest scumread

VOTE: ika

[Lalendra]

So since no one has counterclaimed

EBWOP

[Lalendra]

Drezi don't be so rude please, have you even had a life outside of mafia.

[Lalendra]

Give up if you must, you may be town but your freakouts aren't going to help us. I don't take kindly to being called stupid over a game, so calm the fk down.

[Lalendra]

1) By us I obviously mean town, but scum would say that too so it's not like you're going to believe me just because I claim town. But if you're asking, yes, I am town.
2) I was skimming because I am busy IRL. I didn't read as carefully as I should have, and am now changing my vote.
3) you're right, I don't have to agree, and I don't. Neither does the rest of the wagon, apparently. Lynching our biggest scum read is what we should be doing, and that's what I'm doing. I don't agree that we should be fishing around for associative tells at this point, we should go after confscum and work from there.

[Lalendra]

At no point did I say that everyone on the wagon is town, of course there could be scum who are simply bussing him. But he is still my strongest scum read at the moment. Therefore, not voting for him would be stupid.

[Lalendra]

Your zero logic declarations seem to have swayed Riabi, and right after he voiced doubt towards me due to simply not thinking from my POV, you jump in to tell him to vig me. I am sure you're scum, sorry.

Where do you get the impression that my view is swayed? Atm, I'm still intending to hammer ika (pending some more time) and then likely vig Lal. That said, I am finding you scummier and scummier, but it's your play that's doing that to me, and not the drivel that House is spouting.

Don't vig me unless you want to lose, because I'm town.
Drezi's play does seem scummy - not pushing for the most likely scum target, scum-reading House who flipped IC - and I would really like to see a Drezi vig.

TTH ABR, and Lalendra, and my townread on Nacho was based on him not hammering, but it looks like he wasn't here at all, so I'd need to rethink that especially if he happened to do it suddenly now.

Nacho's hesitation to hammer ika seems a bit scummy but it is possible that he just wasn't around.

In my opinion he's not. You can just vig ika.

Again, you are pushing for people to jump off of the ika wagon and trying to go for other players instead - scum!Drezi is scum.

Vote: TTH

Pushing Nacho to hammer and then lining up a vig kill on me. Nope.

This is scum angling for endgame.

TTH is scum. Ika is as well due to his avoiding the game, but I want TTH today.

And now you're also trying to steer people away from the ika wagon? I'm really starting to think a ABR/Drezi/ika scumteam. The other weird thing, though, is how ABR kept soft-prodding Nacho, trying to get him to come in and make a comment or wanting to hear from him before making any decisions, which almost makes me think they might be scum together as well.

L-1 ika - 4 - TellTaleHeart, House, Lalendra, Riabi (House and Riabi are conftown, I know I'm town, TTH is questionable)
Albert B. Rampage - 1 - Drezi (Possibly bussing, but more than likely simply trying not to seem like obvious avoidance while also not voting for ika)
TellTaleHeart - 1 - Albert B. Rampage (I really have no idea what to make of this vote.)

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, ika (ika is lurking, Nacho was hesitant to hammer until called out on it)

I'm thinking Drezi lynch tomorrow but we have a lot of time to figure it out.

[Lalendra]

Bad choice y'all. We're not in a position to mislynch, please dint lose the game for us now.

vote: Drezi

[Lalendra]

At least town will still have a shot at winning, even if you do lynch me, as it'll be 3-1. But I'd much rather just finish up the game today than watch everybody go "oh shit, well, NOW who do we think is scum?" after I die.

[Lalendra]

Actually, now that I think about it, she was defending ika but she also pointed the finger at ABR. If she was scum, it's unlikely that she would put herself at such a significant disadvantage by bussing one scum buddy on the same day another got lynched, thereby making herself the lone scum remaining.

unvote

for those who think I am scum, if you have questions, ask them. I will answer them to the best of my ability.

[Lalendra]

I was wondering the same thing, since you actually have a night action you'd make a better target. Either it was somebody that was pissed at house for some reason, or it was because they thought he was more dangerous. When I have time tonight I'm going to go through and see if I can find anyone that seems like they wanted house dead more than you.

[Lalendra]

I am inclined to agree Nacho, largely because of ABR constantly soft-baiting Nacho for his opinion. Thoughts?

[Lalendra]

Yeah...I'm going to sheep Nacho on this.

Vote: NJAC

(ika, Riabi, Nacho) or (ika, ABR, Nacho) scum teams make lots of sense, so your "PoE" is already flawed.

If Nacho was scum, you would never see it coming. This is Nacho town, I guarantee it.

I can tell you it's not Nacho or Riabi who have been my town reads for even before Riabi claimed. We are still waiting on another PR to claim and that could confirm one more innocent. I don't know beyond that.

I need Nacho.

Unvote

I don't want to be wrong. Nacho needs to comment.

When I was in my first game as scum, and I wasn't talking as much as my scumbuddies wanted me to, they did this sort of soft-pushing to get me to talk. Also, when confscum says they "guarantee" someone is town, it makes me raise an eyebrow.

[Lalendra]

Unvote, vote Lalendra

Lynch Lalendra or we might as well resign right here.

This game has been letdown after letdown. I can't even imagine us winning this. Nobody listens. People rush to bandwagon without thinking. Just stop and think for a moment, how is Lalendra town? That vote on Riabi is scummy as hell. She's scum.

TTH's slot was scummy, ika could be scum, it could be you. Lalendra is the one I'm most sure of.

I don't even know what Lalendra is doing now, but I absolutely wouldn't want to lynch her, noone ever pushed her and now suddenly people want to lynch her, it just screams scum wanting easy mislynch.

This blows my mind on the scale of scumminess. Going after someone who has never been gone after is an easy mislynch? How does that even work in your brain?

You never pointed a finger at her, not even a single shred of doubt, and now you're just coming up with your shit that she's scum go ahead and lynch her. She's been on the sidelines, noone has a strong feeling about her being town, so naturally it'll be easy to start making people paranoid.

I did point my finger at her, in the beginning of the day. I voted you but I said I suspected her.

It's Lalendra. Are you trying to tell me like all the people who have been in the spotlight are more suspicious than all the ones that most people have forgotten are in the game?

Or it could be you, Lalendra, and TTH.

Lalendra should be scum, unless I'm way off about this game. What doesn't make sense about any of this is the night 1 kill. Why Sir Cyanide? He suspected Sakura Hana and TTH and I don't remember who else. He wasn't a fan of lynching dooku.

Say what you want Lalendra, I still think you're scum.

ABR was the most vocal about me being scum, and trying to lynch me. Given that he flipped scum, I don't see how anyone could believe that I am scum; why bus one of your scumbuddies when there is no pressure to do so? He was just trying to start a wagon on me because he was scum and I am town. Period.

[Lalendra]

I am okay with a nacho lynch. Riabi doesn't seem convinced by my argument, maybe he'll be swayed by yours. I'd like to hear what TTH has to say before I put nacho at L-1 though.

[Lalendra]

You are conftown, and Drezi is unlikely as scum due to the reasons I outlined earlier when I unvoted him. That leaves TTH and nacho. Of the two, I think nacho is the more likely, due ABR's weird constant prodding, his hesitation with the ika hammer, and also the reasons Drezi mentioned. TTH, we are anxiously awaiting your input.

[Lalendra]

Also nacho, if you have anything to say in your defense, now would be the time. Not participating at this crucial stage is scummy at worst and anti-town at best. Making a "I have a lot to say" post, and then not following it up with anything for a full day, is just active lurking.

[Lalendra]

Hmm.

[Lalendra]

Hmm.

What does this mean?

It means that I didn't completely believe that because it was convenient, and because he didn't ask the mod to mark him V/LA.

Also, when confscum says they "guarantee" someone is town, it makes me raise an eyebrow.

Why is that?

I think that's sort of obvious.

[Lalendra]

Oh look, I'm the tie-breaking vote, and one of the two wagons is on me, WHATEVER SHALL I DO

[Lalendra]

oh wait probably just wrong about that
cool beans

Wrong about what? Me not trying to lynch you? I think I was pretty clear that I thought you were scum from the time this day started...

[Lalendra]

That's the only reason I haven't hammered yet.

[Lalendra]

Why did your posts go from long, well-thought-out, grammatically correct entries to "lol whatevs" posts lacking in punctuation? Note, I'm not being a grammar Nazi, just observing a distinct difference in your style all of a sudden, and curious why.

[Lalendra]

Right about me meaning what?

[Lalendra]

Drezi and TTH believe nacho is scum. Nacho is voting for me, which is the obvious choice as the lone scum who doesn't want to self hammer, so really Riabi is the only one whose mind needs to be changed. Obviously if I hammer nacho and he flips town, I will be shot tonight, and town will lose. I highly doubt that will happen, because I am confident in my scum!nacho assessment. That being said, as the only remaining conftown - which of us do you think it's more scummy at this point (after all of yesterday's talk, that is) and why, Riabi?

[Lalendra]

Obviously if I hammer nacho and he flips town,

I will be shot tonight

, and

town will lose

.

??

Yep, I had the same thought. Assuming nacho would flip town, and assuming Lal gets shot tonight, then we'd be in 3 player LyLo. But there are a number of problems with this...

1.) The chances of Nacho and Lal both being town at this point, are, in my mind, slim.
2.) Assuming we mis-lynch today, wouldn't *I* be a far more likely NK than Lal? Being conftown and all?

Sigh... I need to re-read some things....

I meant you would vig me because you thought I was scum, and it would be justified if incorrect to vig me if I misjudged town.