Open 598: GAME OVER

[You Got Schooled]

VOTE: Persivul

[You Got Schooled]

Just to be clear we should be wagoning Persivul right now.

Tried too hard to make his RVS vote seem natural.

[You Got Schooled]

If you think I'm scum you should probably vote for me.

[You Got Schooled]

OK.

You still deserve a wagon.

Now for your over defensive attitude as opposed to your dodgy looking RVS vote.

[You Got Schooled]

yawn. talk to me when you guys are done being stupid

Why are you not interested in starting a wagon?

[You Got Schooled]

^ good voting.

[You Got Schooled]

I'm much more interested in wagons, so

VOTE: ika

But,
1) Not scum!
2) Because my partner is better at attracting the town-fairies than me
3)Someone without a gun? Right now, probably lane, but it's a bit early to tell.

You?

[You Got Schooled]

Did lane just out the scum team? Lane, what's going with you in 34/44?

[You Got Schooled]

Newbie is making a lot of sense right now.

VOTE: Lane

[You Got Schooled]

Lane, if you thought both us and ika were scum, why would you not vote for the bigger wagon?

Why compliment wagon on player you're scum reading and then vote elsewhere?

It makes no sense.

[You Got Schooled]

p-edit:

@YGS:

you can answer this too.

Lane, if you thought both us and ika were scum, why would you not vote for the bigger wagon?

Why compliment wagon on player you're scum reading and then vote elsewhere?

It makes no sense.

Lane was scum reading both slots, that's a little stronger than the 'suspicion' you're trying to imply.

[You Got Schooled]

I mean ika's second question

We're a hydra. I'm stating my partner has better luck drawing town.

I mean, I was expecting something like you wanted to see the vote count first before throwing your vote on. Otherwise, I don't understand why you personally didn't want to add on to ika's wagon if you don't think YGS and ika are necessarily connected but that they both still could be scum.

Good posting

YGS, I hadn't even said I was scum reading ika, I was scum reading you hence the vote. I simply state ika as a solid wagon. And voted my biggest scum read. It really shouldn't be this difficult to understand

How is the wagon solid if you aren't scum-reading him? It's not just me who isn't getting this.

p-edit, more solid posting from newbie.

[You Got Schooled]

Solid wagon on ika = ika is a scum read.

Don't particularly care how you want to word that. That's what it means.

If one of your scum reads has a wagon, you should probably join it. That's how we lynch scum.

Watch. You're about to fall victim to it.

[You Got Schooled]

UNVOTE: lane
VOTE: YGS

You're being completely non-responsive to my question, and instead are focusing on whether I used the word "suspicion" or "scummy" when they both mean the same damned thing. Which we appear to agree upon, but you nonetheless ignore the whole point of my question (of why, between two scum reads, it was suspicious for lane to vote one over the other).

Hmm, are you scum GC? I had you as town but I'm not so sure now.

*Start Advertisement*
Is your bus going wrong? Does it look like your buddy might actually get lynched? Are you unsure what to do? Then look no further, simply call '0800 I-need-a-really-bad-reason-to-get-off-this-wagon-I'm-on' and we'll provide that bad reason you're looking for to stop bussing your buddy!
*End Advertisement*

I answered your bad question. You're either not reading or 'see above'.

You can be suspicious of somebody without thinking they're scum. This is obvious. I feel you should know this.

[You Got Schooled]

Read this slowly. I have 1 vote that I can put on 1 person. I voted for my biggest scum read. End of story

And we were scummier than ika because...

[You Got Schooled]

Hahaha! Yes! Someone throws in some logic and they're all of a sudden my scum buddy!

And I couldn't possibly have voted ygs cause he my biggest scum read and not voted ika because I'm not convinced of scum.

I'll be glad to hammer ika if they don't get better. Oh wait. But since I'm scum I'll just be bussing my partner. But if indeed ika is town, I'm just an opportunistic scum.

Look at the facts you daft mofugears. I voted ygs for biggest scum read. That is what I did. I didn't not do anything for any other reason. I did that for a reason. I didn't not do anything for any particular reason. I VOTED YGS FOR A REASON! I DIDN'T NOT DO ANYTHING FOR ANY REASONS WHATSOEVER. I PURPOSELY VOTED YGS. I DIDN'T PURPOSELY NOT VOTE IKA.

Jesus

This post is using two views from two different people to try and discredit two separate arguments by presenting them as if they're coming from the same source.

This is weak.

[You Got Schooled]

Woop, strawman argument spotted. Lane, why would we wagon ika if we were scum? - Why is it not more obvious that we had a scum-read on him, and voted him?

@ GC: 'if you accept that lane thinks both ika and YGS are suspicious, but not necessarily buddies, why are you having a problem with lane voting YGS and simply vocally supporting ika votes (what actually happened) rather than voting ika and vocally supporting YGS votes (what you appear to be suggesting to be the non-suspicious thing to do)?'

I think you are asking why we have a problem with why lane's vote is bad WHILE he is scum-reading our slot? I think the question I just asked him explains that: he's not really established a reason behind his read on us, but would rather scum-read us than see our vote as town voting ika for the same reasons he 'suspects' them. Seems like he's reaching. Does that answer your question?

[You Got Schooled]

Sorry BBM, yours is not a strawman! Was talking to lane. Please get back to us with your thoughts while I think about your strategy: it looks good on the surface...

[You Got Schooled]

Newbie seems town.

I don't like that vote.

I expressed similar doubt about Lane in Hydra QT and also thought GC could be town. Then he started playing badly and I thought he might be scum.

That is a bad vote though.

Do you think Lane is town?

[You Got Schooled]

Wagons are good for the game and are in no way scummy.

[You Got Schooled]

Yeah, we had an early town-read on GC for the same reason, but now we're not so sure, mainly 'coz of the aggressive vote. I think Newbie has done some solid posting: I might be biased 'coz of the lane vote, though.

Why do you think lane is town? Might cause me to re-think my newbie-read...

p-edit (what my other head said)

pp-edit: persivul, your comment doesn't really match your quote. Can you explain that?

[You Got Schooled]

Obvious you had a scum read on them and voted? You said you like wagons and voted. why wouldn't you wagon ika if you are scum?

Your comment struck me as shady. More than ikas. I voted you.

Are you assuming we're bussing? Also, wagons are not just a scum-tool, seriously.

[You Got Schooled]

Okay lane, got it. I don't like it, but I think I understand.

Scum only get one gun night, yeah?

[You Got Schooled]

Yeah. If you want us to identify ourselves at the end of posts we probably can, but it's gonna be kinda obvious who's who.

(Bella)

[You Got Schooled]

Sorry, I'll start sigging my posts.

I've been going with the flow and trying to get an initial feel for the game without paying a whole lot of attention.

Either tonight, or tomorrow, I am going to read and pay more attention and see what comes up.

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

Thanks newbie. (Bella)

[You Got Schooled]

Lane is probtown

Another solid post. Your mouth says one thing. Your vote is saying another. Sthar8 jumps straight onto my wagon without saying anything, then says I'm probtown after a couple other people say I could be town. But doesn't do anything with the vote?

Does anyone know this person?
VOTE: sthar8

Yeah, lane needs to stop scum-reading me, just 'coz. I really like this post and I'm feeling okay about his response to our questions, and am happy to

UNVOTE: lane

VOTE: sthar8

If he had specified it I mean. His vote seemed like RVS I wouldn't be surprised if he forgot who he was voting.

I'm arguing because I know I've done that before and dealt with people spouting bullshit like you and Newbie.

Why are you defending this? o.0

UNVOTE: lane

This unvote, without a new vote, is skeevy, especially after 97

Well, I'm reread and rethinking 94 and I guess it does answer my question.

My other head was being obtuse, yeah. Lane's explanation does make sense, however.

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

Mod, may I be so bold as to suggest regular VCs?

If this is not achievable because you're busy or whatever, can I suggest editing small VC's into people's posts at the top of a page?

[You Got Schooled]

Alright, I'm rereading.

Something feels off here; Persivul votes ika (it looks like another RVS vote?)

VOTE: ika

I presume our mayor was just murdered or some such...and you just want to chat around the fire?

Then, Newbie questions him about jumping on the ika wagon;

^
What compelled you to jump on the wagon?

Without responding to Newbie, Persivul quietly jumps back off the ika wagon (with another RVS vote?);

Damn lurkers

VOTE: sthar8

Hey green funyuns, who were you quoting?!?

32 - Lane, here you vote GC for 'forced attempts at scum hunting'.

34 - Yet here, you compliment the ika wagon and vote us.

Was your original vote on GC a serious one? If it was, what did we do that was so scummy to make you change your vote?

[You Got Schooled]

Hmm, it seems like a serious vote.

And your vote on us was because...

[You Got Schooled]

EBWOP: And you voted us because...

[You Got Schooled]

what do you mean what's going on with me? I was voting gc simply to call him canyons again. Just being stupid.

Just saw this.

Was you voting GC to prove a point?

Or was you voting GC to mess about with his name?

[You Got Schooled]

I wasn't paying attention before and the thread was moving too quickly.

It's just you and me now, I like it this way.

I'm not asking who your biggest scum read was. I was asking for your reason for voting us; I just read it was because you didn't like a comment I made so the question is now retracted.

Can I still get your answer to why you voted GC though?

[You Got Schooled]

Yep.

Thanks!

[You Got Schooled]

I must have been tired last night because I have posted some shit! Apologies.

67 - GC, I think a vote on the ika wagon does a lot more to progress the game. Pushing a vanity wagon didn't make much sense. I understand not everyone likes early wagons (though I'll never understand why) but I would argue that a vote on ika would have provided a lot more to the game than a vote on us.

Strength of read can't be that strong for that stage of the game; especially when his reasoning is that he 'didn't like ika's yawn comment' and he didn't like my 'if you think we're scum you should vote us'. Do you think there is enough there to justify the strength of read deciding the vote?

If not, it makes much more sense to vote ika, no?

71 - Just highlighting this post for reference. GC, I made sure to highlight 'suspicion' because I didn't want any ambiguity in Lane's stance on ika/us.

I don't like it when people use synonyms for 'scummy'; especially when they're ambiguous with the words they choose to use instead.

PEdit - Persivul - what did you think making 3 RVS votes would achieve? Why did you decide to change it 3 times?

[You Got Schooled]

92 - Quick note on the attempt at game breaking; can we not do that?

Thanks.

[You Got Schooled]

This ^^

[You Got Schooled]

100 - Another bad vote from Persivul. That's four so far.

104 - Molla, I disagree on Newbie. I can understand his push and the motivations behind it.

107 - Lane, given you think wagon hopping is scummy, what is your read on Persivul?

109 - Persivul, what makes you think that an early wagon will lead to a lynch? Do you suggest we have a page/post limit before we're allowed to have a wagon reach L-2/L-1?

Further, if you have an early scum read, do you propose holding onto this read until we reach a certain point of the game as well? I mean, your whole argument basically says 'don't do things early game that involve scum hunting because it's scummy' and this is absurd.

121 - Despite what I just said to Molla, I don't like Newbie giving up on his Lane push. If he genuinely believed in what he was pushing, I don't know why he would back off because his scum read is getting frustrated. This doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking it actually has more to do with the resistance to Lane getting wagoned.

[You Got Schooled]

137/138 - This feels off. Are you seriously saying you read BB's plan, agreed with it, posted that you agreed with it, then went back to read THE EXACT SAME POST AGAIN, only this time noticing the no lynch part?

Like, I could see this if BB made two separate posts but it was all in one post.

This looks like a very weak attempt at some sort of town cred (scum going along with a plan that is made to catch scum) and then finding a reason not to shortly after. I would expect better from you as scum but I can't pretend this doesn't exist. I don't like it.

146 - Why the unvote now Newbie?

[You Got Schooled]

What do you think your 4 votes have achieved? Have you actually cleared the first 3 people already?

I think our votes would have achieved much more had people been willing to wagon.

Newbie question - what's game breaking, and why don't we want to do it? Seems like a good idea to me if we find a method that would actually work.

Game breaking is finding a method in which to break the game; i.e we don't actually have to scum hunt/play mafia (which funnily enough is why I join games) because there is an optimal way of playing that ends the game without actually doing anything.

[You Got Schooled]

Who would you put a wagon on right now, and why? If it makes sense I'll help with some pressure.

I haven't finished rereading yet but I wouldn't mind a wagon on GC, Newbie or you. Here's why;

GC for his absurd comments in relation to the game breaking plan.

Newbie for stopping his push on Lane when he had been given no reason to do so.

You because I don't think I have liked one single post you have made so far.

[You Got Schooled]

180 - This reads-list from ika is painfully bad. ika could be scum.

Explanations for your reads in this post would be great ika.

PEdit - Hiiiii ika! Transparency = town? So bad.

Can you quote some posts of his that show him doing any form of scum hunting please? Thanks.

[You Got Schooled]

Persivul wasn't really wagon hopping as opposed to throwing around votes all willy nilly like, he kinda hoped on ika, then voted first for sthar8. Then voted you but that was first or second?

So I don't think that's really all that related. However, he's nowhere near my town list after a quick ISO since you posed the question.

He was 3rd on our wagon.

So that's 3rd on the ika wagon and 3rd on our wagon.

Can you clarify where our vote hopping is worse than this?

[You Got Schooled]

1) well instead of potshotting you could expand on why an empty read list is bad?

2) what feels right. i just looked at everyones interactions and stuff and deduct everyones roles from it

3) glad you agree its good

4) its not the scum hunting i see from him itshis mindset of trying to understand.


are we gonna start the wagon on me again now?

1) Your reads are almost the reverse of mine

2) Nah, better than that.

3) Not a town tell at all.

4) Town's job is to find scum. He isn't scum hunting, in fact, he isn't doing much at all.

I wouldn't mind a wagon you, but not toDay.

[You Got Schooled]

@YGS: I read GC and newbie in ISO

GC seems to be honestly hunting to me.

Newbie - not so much. For example, in 72 he goes way overboard with the analysis

You don't think Newbie's push on Lane was scum hunting?

Also, given GC's current vote is based on semantics, I fail to see how he isn't overdoing it but Newbie is.

[You Got Schooled]

OK, quote our vote hopping for me then Lane.

[You Got Schooled]

1) reversed reads =/= scum

2) well then you better start wagoning me cus the ohter reason i have is probally due to the fact i know his role right now based of his interactions

3) i never said ti was a towntell? i like to think that transparency is more town oriented then scum oriented

4) well neither am i? you know the saying "theres more then one way to skin a cat?" not every townie scum hunts. im town hunting right now so i can jsut POE push

im dissapoint you wont wagon me today

1) Correct, but your reads are so bad they can't be coming from town.

2) Why are you talking about a single person here? I want reasoning for all your reads.

3) Semantics. CBA.

4) OK, but you're still doing something. I also prefer to town hunt D1; Persivul is doing neither.

[You Got Schooled]

Need to see more from Sthar.

VOTE: Persivul

[You Got Schooled]

1) they are bad cus they are not the same as your is what your saying right? do you understand how stupid that line of reasoning is and how wrong it is as well?

2) i already told you interactions. if you ahvent already realized its day fuckign 1 and 99% of the time on day 1 i go off gut calls and role reads.

3) *shrugs*

4) then we agree to disagree, if he gets wagoned heavy i will out the role i think he is cus its very mch follows a certain mindset that i see.

where bella? i rather talk to her then get into anothe petty smatic battle with you

1) Yes, I'm glad you see where I'm coming from. It makes it worse when you have no reasoning at all for your reads.

2) What interactions? Between who? What was result of said interaction? There is information to be analyzed and you're not doing that instead referring to some bullshit 'gut calls'.

4) Indeed.

ika is probably town.

PEdit - @GC - That is so fucking weak. Because I want to enjoy playing the game it makes me scum? That is quite possibly the worst shit I have ever read in my life.

PR's are different when everybody doesn't know what everybody else is doing. That comes down to the individual player, not the whole group working out how to break the game.

For example, I recently finished an Open where all we had to do was protect the tracker while she searched for movement in VT's to win game. That's not mafia, it's fucking boring.

@Lane - You accused us of vote hopping and called it scummy. I want you to back up your claim of us vote hopping by showing me where we did it (remembering that you excluded Persivul from vote hopping with first/second votes on a wagon)

[You Got Schooled]

I'm not great at set-up spec, I didn't realize the set-up could be broken (nor is it something I look for when I'm joining a game)

Like I said, if the majorty want to go with the plan I'll replace out.

I have no problems with that.

Pedit - Now you're being fucking dumb.

[You Got Schooled]

137/138 - This feels off. Are you seriously saying you read BB's plan, agreed with it, posted that you agreed with it, then went back to read THE EXACT SAME POST AGAIN, only this time noticing the no lynch part?

Like, I could see this if BB made two separate posts but it was all in one post.

This looks like a very weak attempt at some sort of town cred (scum going along with a plan that is made to catch scum) and then finding a reason not to shortly after. I would expect better from you as scum but I can't pretend this doesn't exist. I don't like it.

[You Got Schooled]

For you Lane;

@Lane - You accused us of vote hopping and called it scummy. I want you to back up your claim of us vote hopping by showing me where we did it (remembering that you excluded Persivul from vote hopping with first/second votes on a wagon)

[You Got Schooled]

258 is for GC.

[You Got Schooled]

Missed this.

VOTE: Persivul

Calls for a wagon come later

This was the 2nd vote. You discounted Persivul's wagon hopping if he was the first or second vote; why does this not apply to us?

I'm much more interested in wagons, so

VOTE: ika

Ooo pretty wagon

Again, second vote. Same as above.

Newbie is making a lot of sense right now.

VOTE: Lane

Ooo prettier wagon!

I don't know where you're going with this?

OK, one wagon vote accompanied by some pretty solid and well explained reasoning.

I fail to see the difference between us and Persivul from your viewpoint.

[You Got Schooled]

Persivul wasn't really wagon hopping as opposed to throwing around votes all willy nilly like, he kinda hoped on ika, then voted first for sthar8. Then voted you but that was first or second?

Wait, what?

So throwing vote around all willy-nilly is a town tell and throwing votes around that are accompanied by reasoning is a scum tell?

Is that actually what I am reading right now.

[You Got Schooled]

Hey I haven't read anything but

I believe optimal strategy is to plan out our visits tonight and to have two players visiting different people.

Player A and B visits Player X
Player C and D visits Player Y
Player E and F visits Player Z
Player G and H visits Player ?
Player I and J visits Player !

This prevents PGOs from activating without confirming them as scum and allows cop to get reports relatively safely.

It also may be optimal to no lynch and then do that twice?

For the visually challenged among us.

[You Got Schooled]

I don't.

[You Got Schooled]

The vote was the say canyons again cause he seemed upset by it. The reasoning was mimicking him. Sufficient?

I believe this. Lane is a meanie

Also @sthar8. I'm mobile. both my laptops are broken. Just played a whole game mobile, granted it was 2 days. Either way, it's not that tough to tag mobile. or read. Or give reads. And don't call me a dipshit cause you can't find the [, ], and / button on your phone. And haven't contributed dick. That doesn't make me the dipshit

+1 to this. Pretty much everything about their posting felt off. However, @BBM: I understand what you are saying about his vote, but it was more the motivation for it. If sthar flips scum, we're coming back to this.

92 - Quick note on the attempt at game breaking; can we not do that?

Thanks.

Agreed. If that's happening let me know and I'll think about replacing out

@GC, you say in post 246 this attitude is scummy, but you realise that it's not just the YGS slot that feels that way? Why is this only a problem for our slot?

I'm taking your bad argument to it's logical conclusion.

This is strawmanning and terrible, jsyk.

The plan and the no lynch was in two separate posts.

Unlike what you say in 258.

I don't mind the fact you missed it. I can even believe it. What is scummy is how you tried to paint us in a bad light for it, without checking yourself first.

scum reside in ZZZX/TGS/Newbie

thats where i stand right now

Okay, why? This is your second reads-list with no explanation.

It's null to me.

Unless if he is posting elsewhere on the site?

POE makes sense though.

Fence sit more...

tldr: Bella is getting scum vibes from GC.
-Bella

p-edit, Persivul.

[You Got Schooled]

Persivul, the eye roll was a) our vote was there before we moved it to you, so your comment is odd and b) your vote is kinda terrible. I don't really understand your explanation. Your poke at ika looks better, though.

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

VOTE: Green Crayons

For reasons stated above.

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

scum reside in ZZZX/TGS/Newbie

thats where i stand right now

Ika you should stop being bad at mafia for one game.

Just one game.

Sheep me on GC. You'll see.

[You Got Schooled]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p6873688]
YGS: BBT-head (is that really him?) is acting SUPER WEIRD for all reasons I have stated in thread. Not like the BBT-scum I have played with, but also not like the BBT-town I have played with. Also this isn't a personality clash, because BBT and I get along just fine, so something is very much up. (pre-post edit: maybe this is what BBT-town acts like if he thinks GC is scum? my god that's frustrating.) Bella seems much more reasonable, if I were to assume that she has to believe that BBT-head is town, which I hate because ugh goddammit just make me warm and comfortable with my scum read.[/quote]
You haven't given any reasons? You're really holding onto the suspicious/scummy thing though (I'm not sure if you read my comment about it?)

You know I love you GC. It's just unfortunate you rolled scum, maybe next time we both get to be town. That would be great.

I mean, we both know you're pretty bad at reading me. If I were scum, you'd be town reading me for sure

[You Got Schooled]

Meh.

[You Got Schooled]

EBWOP:

YGS: BBT-head (is that really him?) is acting SUPER WEIRD for all reasons I have stated in thread. Not like the BBT-scum I have played with, but also not like the BBT-town I have played with. Also this isn't a personality clash, because BBT and I get along just fine, so something is very much up. (pre-post edit: maybe this is what BBT-town acts like if he thinks GC is scum? my god that's frustrating.) Bella seems much more reasonable, if I were to assume that she has to believe that BBT-head is town, which I hate because ugh goddammit just make me warm and comfortable with my scum read.

You haven't given any reasons? You're really holding onto the suspicious/scummy thing though (I'm not sure if you read my comment about it?)

You know I love you GC. It's just unfortunate you rolled scum, maybe next time we both get to be town. That would be great.

I mean, we both know you're pretty bad at reading me. If I were scum, you'd be town reading me for sure

[You Got Schooled]

Lane's lynch wasn't going anywhere, and I liked his reaction to sthar not unvoting him.

OK, but if you think he is scum that wouldn't be a reason to stop pushing him, would it?

Like, if you really think he is scum, you keep pushing no matter what to try and persuade people you're right. You don't just give up because nobody is following immediately.

You don't think that would be an easy stance for scum to take? It's a very simple observation to make.

Ae you interested in joining a GC wagon?

[You Got Schooled]

Ah so you are going to take the "this is how I play when I read you as scum" out to explain away your weirdness.

w/r/t "suspicion v. scummy," Are you referring to Post 215? That's a weaksauce after-the-fact explanation of why, instead of simply answering my question (like Newbie did very easily), you instead go "WHOA LET'S USE THE WORD SCUMMY NOT SUSPICIOUS" as if that was relevant at all.

I don't think I've been weird... Can you clarify the weirdness you're seeing and what exactly you think it means.

Yeah, 215 is it. I turns out to be a valid point though? Like, Lane explicitly says himself he was suspicious of Ika but NOT scum reading him so....

[You Got Schooled]

i dont sheep

i do see the merits on why GC can be scum but you should also be willing to admit your own flaws as well (like how GC was showing you follwing the logic does lead to that conclusion)

GC, gun to head am i town or scum?

I just dislike game breaking strategies.

What reasons do you see for GC scum?

[You Got Schooled]

Because I like playing Mafia?

We can talk about it post-game if you like, now is not the time though.

[You Got Schooled]

Hey Anti,

You replaced into a scum slot.

Discuss.

[You Got Schooled]

nope.jpg

i'm guessing this amateur hour brought to you by notty?

I don't know what this means.

I do know your slot is likely to be scum. Jeanne saw Role PM and ran away.

[You Got Schooled]

She does have a problem playing them though, amirite? Ba-dum-tsh!

I have no problem with you thinking I am amateurish.

[You Got Schooled]

I didn't check the link for what it's worth.

I just know Jeanne is bad at scum.

[You Got Schooled]

Also, there are players in this game with more posts than that by page 15, so it's not exactly prolfic

-some newb.

[You Got Schooled]

agree on bb and lane being townreads. add ika to the mix. and the newb who's name starts with a p that i forgot already.

my lynchpool is more along the lines of [newbie, YGS]

Because...

[You Got Schooled]

Anti, talk to me about your read on Persivul? ( the one beginning with a p you included in that quote :p)
- The wrong Bella

[You Got Schooled]

Town read on Persivul and scum-read on us need explaining.

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

What is your read on GC Anti?

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

Gc, explain your commenT?

Also, thanks anti, but why are we scum?

-Bella

[You Got Schooled]

@ gc, Okay, so it's just a pot shot back? Or do you think there's intent behind it?

-Bellaphant

[You Got Schooled]

you answered both anyway, thanks - Bella

[You Got Schooled]

Explain scum read Anti?

Can you read GC (or even our comments re:GC) and then give a read on him please.

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

Ika, do you see any reason for us to be scum?

[You Got Schooled]

I do understand Ika.

I don't understand why you're not town reading us.

@Anti - I would rather lynch GC or Persivul over Newbie.

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

We're doing neither GC.

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

VOTE: GC

VOTE: GC

Fucking

VOTE: GC

Anti, fucking read GC before trying to progress the game. It's seriously bad play not to.

[You Got Schooled]

Ugh, horrible question.

[You Got Schooled]

Where is the vote that should follow Anti?

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

Will try and get to this game at some point.

Not sure when.

Would love explanations for all the scum reads on our slot though.

Seriously, that's pretty bad.

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

yeah, i know it.

whether or not you knew it at the time, you were right about sthar before, just not for the right reasons. you can rectify this situation by voting him.

Can you explain your thought process here a little more? Is it mainly about the set-up spec?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Newbie

BB's plan isn't worth dropping a lynch. We guarantee that scum won't use their PGO, but they similarly won't if we pair or circle and we still get to lynch. We can't do it twice because then we might lose, and two free investigations is the only reason it's worth considering.

I agree with just about everything antihero said up until he broke out the crazy-chalkboard where 1+1=5. He's going to get paranoid about that being buddying at some point,

so I should evolve my reads subtly so he doesn't freak.

But I can't be bothered with coddling right now.

town: {lane, anti, BB}
idgaf: {ika, parasol, canyons, Z}
scum: {newbie, YGS}

The bolded seems really self-aware of how the reads are perceived. This is then undermined by the next sentence - I don't like the phrasing here at all, seems really fake.

Also, as my other-head said: can we stop being the convenient scum-read without any clear explanations? It's kinda dull.

Not gonna support a Newbie lynch today.

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

@ygs, can you not be so damn concerned about people's reads on you and focus on scum hunting if you're town? You're focused way too much on that. I don't even know how many times you've asked people to explain their reads on you. Frankly it concerns me enough to put you back into my scum pile. Do your part and fiND scum. You don't even have votes on you and you can't stop focusing on how you're peoples scum read. I mean I can see if you had 3 or 4 votes yeah, be a little defensive, but this is weird as shit without a single vote

point noted, so my point for now is, a) somewhere, it looks like scum decided we were an easy person to push into the scum-pile without much explanation, which is interesting as it lets them town-read other people. It's also interesting to me that, like you said, that it keeps being said without a vote. Right now I'm wondering if/why this changes if newbie gets lynched today.

GC and one of Persivul (although I'm not so sure anymore), ika, and sthar.

Talk to me about pers and ika?

@YGS:

self awareness is alignment indicative?

I find this one interesting, because it was an accusation leveled at me in my last town game, but I really didn't like the post as it all seemed to be about how what he thought would be perceived, rather than what the actual thought was, which doesn't feel townie for me. However, subsequent posts, such as 572 are making me feel a little better about the slot.

not liking newbie, finding molla's towny for now, also... lane is null atm.

that is it for now.

This catch-up is a little weird: a lot of quotes with not a huge amount of analysis. Explain your lane read for me, 'coz Lane was our first town-read (me and my other head).

Actually, zzzx, and everyone on Newbie: can someone summarise the case for me? I'm starting to feel less good about the slot, but my partner is pretty good about it, so

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

What makes you say that?

[You Got Schooled]

Anti, thoughts on ika?

VOTE: ika

[You Got Schooled]

It sure was me.

What are you doing Anti?

[You Got Schooled]

I had a little smile to myself when I read your previous posts.

Umm, his play seems different to White Flag, no?

I mean, if you disagree, I can look somewhere else. But ika really isn't doing a whole lot and you said this was his scum meta so...

[You Got Schooled]

dislike that post

You wanna start summin?

[You Got Schooled]

OK.

I'll buy that for now.

UNVOTE:

[You Got Schooled]

VOTE: Sthar

[You Got Schooled]

Shit.

People be paranoid up in here.

[You Got Schooled]

Bella thinks Sthar is scum.

He didn't do much yesterday; want more from him Today.

[You Got Schooled]

'mkay so i might have been wrong on persifjdksla;f;lkdsajflkd;samflea;smifosa what's his face

Not being difficult, but what has your read changed to? I looked him up in your iso and from what I could work out he started scum, turned to town and is now scum?

ika's pretty obviously town and he's AGAIN your go-to push

nope, not getting away with it this time

That hammer was pretty bad, though. Willing to assume it's just ika if you can explain why else he is town?

what happened to the GC scum read BBT?

We've still got it in reserve, especially with the newbie push. But, her p-edit push on Pers looks better...

also im going to make myself look super scummy by stating that it was obvious BB was jker based off how he was going "we dont need to worry about JKer"

Oh god. I'm gonna leave reading you to other people for now, ok?

-bella

(I give bbt the power of our vote for five minutes...)

[You Got Schooled]

Sthar, come at me bro.

[You Got Schooled]

@Anti, we played an Open together.

[You Got Schooled]

This is the first one I have ever done.

[You Got Schooled]

Anti, I'm just really...persuasive. And appealing. You jealous, bro?

GC, thoughts on ika?

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

Anti, if you're asking I'm accepting.

If you're not, I wouldn't have done it anyway.

PEdit - Haha, Bella is super cool!

[You Got Schooled]

Cool, makes sense, gc.

@anti, why is ika town?

[You Got Schooled]

Ika, you're really bad at this game. Stop it.

Persivul is a good vote. We got sidetracked D1.

VOTE: Persivul

[You Got Schooled]

Also, can we look at the early vcs? It might be nothing, but...

350 Pers has 3 votes.

It's the first wagon to get to 3.

By the next VC, 440 the votes have disappeared onto newbie/gc.

The only other counter wagon that gets going is sthar, 566, in opposition to newbie, which doesn't mean as much.

Also, look at the first votes on pers: newbie, bbm and GC. 2/3 are conf!town.

Interesting, no?

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

...pers, meta me. I love this VCA nonsense. This is pure!town-bella, sorry.

Also, did you not read the game overnight?

[You Got Schooled]

...pers, meta me.

Why - don't you mix it up just so that people can't reliably read you?

I love this VCA nonsense. This is pure!town-bella, sorry.

VCA?

Also, did you not read the game overnight?

Yes, but not too closely, as I didn't see the purpose in formulating a plan before the night flip. Also, I get the feeling that Anti can likely push what he wants through for another day, and a newbie isn't going to have much say.

VCA is vote count analysis. Also, you know who else doesn't re-read games closely?

Telling me to mix up my meta in the same post you declare you are gonna let anti do the heavy lifting for you kinda sucks, just so you know. Unless you know anti's alignment 100%, that is...

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

Pers has dodged the important bit of my post and is now spamming. Interesting.

[You Got Schooled]

Persivul, can you state your case for us being scum please?

A nice concise summary of your thoughts would be much appreciated.

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

What is scummy about throwing votes around?

Why is being defensive scummy? Why would we not want to survive as town? Why is it scummy to try and understand why someone is scum reading you?

~BBT

[You Got Schooled]

It sows confusion instead of cohesion in the collective scum hunt.

No, it doesn't. It's only our vote. Unless your implying that, for some reason, our vote effects the overall game-state more than anybody elses vote what you're saying it flat out false.

Undue defensiveness takes the focus off the scum hunt.

No, it doesn't. It allows us to work out the alignment of the person attacking us. Again, you seem to be insistent that our actions effect the game-state as a whole more than anybody elses. Just because we're defensive, that doesn't stop other people from scum hunting.

You also didn't answer the question of why we wouldn't want to survive as town.

A townie who doesn't feel an imminent threat doesn't worry about a few pokes at them. They figure that if they keep scum hunting people will see it and the pokes will pass.

Again, you didn't answer the question. Why is it scummy to try and understand the motivation and the alignment behind the person attacking you?

I would argue that completely side-stepping an issue to look like you're scum hunting is scummier than addressing the issue itself.

696 - I was scum in WF. I tunneled on ika all game trying to convince Anti he was scum (they were both town); Anti didn't buy it and stayed firm with his read all game. Ika feels like scum to me in this game (I'm not great at reading ika though) but Anti seems insistent he is town. I don't see Anti being wrong on ika unless they're both scum (and I'm pretty sure Anti isn't scum) so I'm inclined to trust his read on ika more than my own. Having said that, I still think ika is scum, this is nothing like his WF play and I'm interested to see why Anti thinks it is.

699 - This is bad though. Why is it between Persivul and us?

701 - Pre-flip associatives are bad and you should feel bad for mentioning it.

This is a convenient position for you to take up Sthar. Explain your scum read on us?

[You Got Schooled]

But it wasn't full. We scum read pers day one, got sidetracked by gc (who's claim is basically conf by pers' self vote) and then were back on him. Ika's nonsense about vca makes me think that's a good vote tomorrow.

Lane, Pls take Off your 'bella is scum' blinkers.

Bella

[You Got Schooled]

VOTE: ika

[You Got Schooled]

We're pretty much conf town after Persivul's flip.

Try again Lane.

[You Got Schooled]

There's some vca stuff that makes me suspicious of ika, though, especially after he tried to dismiss it, but anti's sthar points are good. Anti is town.

~bella

[You Got Schooled]

im convinced it between YGS/Shar

See, replace our name with yours, Ika, and that's where I am too!

Sns, can we have a VC before I vote?

[You Got Schooled]

'Coz I don't wanna hammer without a claim/ 'coz I'm bad at maths and your spam-voting confused me? Pretty sure I'd be l-1, right?

/in before lane votes me for bad maths.

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

Good points.

VOTE: sthar

l-1

[You Got Schooled]

Ika, you best be town...

zzzx, intrigued about that reads-list...

-bella

@sns, no worries, I just can't count

[You Got Schooled]

UNVOTE: sthar

-bella

[You Got Schooled]

Alright, so based off of interactions I find it unlikely that ika or Lane are scum with Persivul.

That leaves Anti, Sthar and Z.

I think out of these three it's most likely to be Z or Sthar. Z has no interactions with Persivul, other than where he calls him his strongest scum read in his catch up in 581 - note he never follows up on this. Instead, he appears to shift his focus onto Newbie. Even on D2, nothing about Persivul.

Sthar has 0 interactions with Persivul. Zero. Nada. Niente.

Z or Sthar needs to be today's lynch.

[You Got Schooled]

No. That's first level reasoning and it's dead wrong.

Sure that's your opinion.

I find it strange that neither of you interacted with him at all. Not a single exchange.

[You Got Schooled]

I also never put up a case on you. Because I was busy, then V/LA, then it didn't matter.

We interacted though, right?

[You Got Schooled]

VOTE: Sthar

Noooooooooo.

Fuck.

[You Got Schooled]

Thanks for modding SNS. No problems at all!

Yeah it's finished Z. You were great and instrumental to the town win! WP!

[You Got Schooled]

Thanks SNS, this was really solid!

Lane: I dunno what I do that makes you scum-read me, but you were our first town-read, on about page 2. It never really dropped

Ace d2-3 play from everyone. Sorry Newbie!