Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Third on the wagon = scum
vote:LowellI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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People i don't currently want to lynch becsuse they've done something i like at some point
Lowell
roflcopter
Albert B. Rampage
AlwaysInnocent
kmd4390
Everyone else
shaddowez
2. Lucky2u
3. acryon
4. Kop
6. texcat
8. BlueBloodedToffee
11. Aneninen
List subject to change whenever i feel like itI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 86, shaddowez wrote:In post 79, Yosarian2 wrote:People i don't currently want to lynch becsuse they've done something i like at some point
Lowell
roflcopter
Albert B. Rampage
AlwaysInnocent
kmd4390
List subject to change whenever i feel like it
In post 83, Yosarian2 wrote:In general, at this point in the game, i tend to townread people who are active and doing intresting things. None of those are especally strong reads, but they all look like they're actually scumhunting in their own way.
I can understand how you could see most of that list as doing some sort of scumhunting, but what is it that ABR has done that interests you?
ABR is basically playing in his normal meta. Loud, obnoxious, picking fights. It's basically how I expect town-ABR to act. It's not really an alignment tell, he could do that as either alignment, but I haven't seen any red flags from him yet.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ok.
Meanwhile, you just earned another 10 scum points for posting about how I spelled your name wrong while still not actually interacting with the game at all.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 104, Lowell wrote:
Yos, for similar reasons, because listing all the most active players and giving them "town reads" is a too good way to win friends.
Actually, I did not list all the most active players, just the ones who did something that looked townish to me. There are active players that weren't on that list.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 100, Kmd4390 wrote:
Yos, I find it interesting that Shadow didn't make your "I like something" list after your explanation for it. Your answer that shadow is null seems to imply you aren't aware that shadow has done a lot, yet people are accusing him of try-hard. I'm curious if I'm misreading you cpmpletely or if there is something causing this.
Really, there was a lot more to the list then that. I can go into more detail if people really want, although I wasn't really planning to make a whole production of it this early, especally since this early my reads are likely to change before I finish making this post.
Reasons people made the list:
Lowell: I had just explained why I liked lowell's play.
Rofl: Seemed to have the exact same reaction to lowell's post I did, which is a good sign. (His post 68) Also, I think I know why he made the KMD vote, although KMD is also on my town list.
ABR: Like I said, he's totally in his town meta, and is acting like how I would expect town-ABR to act at this point in the game.
AlwaysInnocent: There are several of his posts I liked. His post 31 gave me good vibes for some reason. Also it feels like he's really scumhunting.
KMD: I really liked the super-earnest way he went after ABR.
And, yeah, in general, we should all be town-reading active players and voting lurkers right now, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just blindly town read everyone who's active without a reason to do so.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 145, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Ah, the old completely unnecessary, randomly inserted reads-list. A favourite for scum to look like they have 'reads' and are 'doing things'.
You're just mad that you're not on my good list.
Seriously, figuring out who looks townie and then lynching someone who doesn't is the single most effective way to find scum, especially early. People make the mistake of "looking for people doing something scummy", but that's backwards; scum usually look null-ish if they're at all competent. So instead you need to look for people who are doing something townie and then lynch someone who's not.
Really? I fail to see how this relates to ABR, rofl and AI in any way. Can you elaborate?
I just did. Rofl is super-town right now, AI also looks pretty good.
Let's talk about this vote and why you're ignoring Yos' incorrect statements about your play.
Excuse me? What is "incorrect" about my statements? I've been playing with ABR for many years now, I think I have some idea of what his meta is.
There are several of AI's posts that you liked and you pick one that you can't even explain why you like it? Wanna pick a few others?
At this point in the game, obviously you're not going to have much to go on, and even a mild "I liked that post for some gut reason" is more then enough to move someone up (or down) a catagory. Of course it's likely to change quickly.
But, sure.
His vote for you was a very town-ish move; you were looking scummy at the point he voted for you, and I like that he's thinking the same way I am.
This was also great:
In post 48, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
No, no. I never conclude anything. I only assume things.In post 43, Aneninen wrote:AlwaysInnocent, you drew a conclusion just as quickly as TexCat.
Townish, aggressive, trying to scumhunt without fear or excessive caution.
He also changed his vote 4 times by page 4, which, in context, is town-ish and implies scumhunting. He's lurker hunting, which is also pro-town at this stage of the game, and in general his play makes a lot of sense.
Caught up.
VOTE: Yos
This needs to happen now.
This feels like a scummy vote from BBT, but obviously I may be biased here. Not getting a good vibe from his posting in general though.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 152, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
I don't think roflcopter is "super-town" by the way. His strong positions are based on very little. I wouldn't vote for him, but I'm not yet convinced he is town. He threatened to shoot me this early if he were a vigilante, which is just reckless and bad play (if it was a serious and not just to threaten me).
A little context here: rofl is an alt of a long-time poster. He uses the rofl alt when he wants to play with a certain playstyle; hyperagressive, short posts, bloodthirsty without explaining anything, lynches without warning. Basically the "baby jesus" or "internet stranger" playstyle, although probably half of you don't remember those players. And as a playstyle, it works well for him.
In that context, his posts so far look good to me.
I will say, though, that he can play like this as scum just as well, and he's very skilled at it, so while I have a town read on him at the moment, I very easily could be wrong, he is very tricksy.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 155, AlwaysInnocent wrote:So he is manipulating his meta so that people excuse him for his behavior even when he is scum. Just great.
I wouldn't say that. The IS playstyle is an effective one as town as well, if you're good at it. And I don't think it's that hard to get a read on someone using it.
More like, he wanted to try something different without people using his previous meta to attack him, so he made an alt and kept it secret for a while. Nothing wrong with thatI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 157, Lowell wrote:I
I note Yos' vociferous defense of AI in 151. My suspicion is that it makes Yos more likely scum and AI more likely town.
Ok, this is getting annoying.
I had absolutly no desire to defend anyone, at least not unless they were is actual danger of being lynched. I was just going to post my reads, and leave it at that. But I had four different people (including you) either attack me for posting reads without explinaton ( you accused me of "town reading everyone active" which was just obviously false, and you ignored me when i pointed that out) or demand i explain my reads in more and more detail. First I just posted a one liner, then I posted a one liner about every player i townread, and then finally i went into more detail on some of my town reads after a fourth person demanded it.
And now I'm being attacked for explaining? What the hell is that?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 162, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 151, Yosarian2 wrote:
Seriously, figuring out who looks townie and then lynching someone who doesn't is the single most effective way to find scum, especially early. People make the mistake of "looking for people doing something scummy", but that's backwards; scum usually look null-ish if they're at all competent. So instead you need to look for people who are doing something townie and then lynch someone who's not.
Agreed. This in no way assuages my concerns that you're scum or even responds to my comment about your post though. You side-stepped my issue, well played, but try again.
You claimed it was "scummy to make a list" with absolutely no justification for that fairly bizarre statement (especially since making a list is pretty much a universal behavior from many people irrespective of alignment). Anyway, the only real way to town-hunt is to make a list of people who look town, and then go after people not on the list.
In post 151, Yosarian2 wrote:
Excuse me? What is "incorrect" about my statements? I've been playing with ABR for many years now, I think I have some idea of what his meta is.
You said ABR was picking fights - I showed you that this was wrong.
In post 56, Albert B. Rampage wrote:How dare you
In post 58, Albert B. Rampage wrote:WE WERE A TEAM
In post 59, Albert B. Rampage wrote:So you want me to town it up for yall or am I playing my normal scummy game?
This is not "playing mildly". He's being deliberately provocative to try to get a reaction from people, which is pretty much what I'd expect.
This was also great:
In post 48, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
No, no. I never conclude anything. I only assume things.In post 43, Aneninen wrote:AlwaysInnocent, you drew a conclusion just as quickly as TexCat.
Townish, aggressive, trying to scumhunt without fear or excessive caution.
He also changed his vote 4 times by page 4, which, in context, is town-ish and implies scumhunting. He's lurker hunting, which is also pro-town at this stage of the game, and in general his play makes a lot of sense.
Just because you describe something as 'townish' it doesn't make it so, you just repeat this is townish, this is townish, this is townish. Why were those actions townish?
I think I just explained that?
He's trying to scumhunt, he doesn't care how his scumhunting makes him look, he's aggressive, he's not being cautious. Those are all town traits.
The main difference between town and scum is that town's #1 priority is to find scum, while scum's #1 priority is not being lynched. When a person starts taking risks, being aggressive, and sticking their necks out to try to find scum, apparently without caring how it makes them look, that's a town tell.
Why are you trying so hard to get me to defend AI, anyway? Why do you care so much where my town read comes from? I could understand your play if you thought AI was scum, but as it is, your whole thrust here just looks wierd.
Aggressive is a trait reserved for town now is it? That's a first.
Being aggressive is a townish trait, yes. It's not "reserved for town". Being passive is a scumish trait, although it's not reserved for scum.
If you expect me to come up with 100% reliable town or scum tells in the first 4 pages of the game, then I hate to break it to you, but that's just not how this game works.
Lurker hunting is the easiest form of scum hunting for scum to do, there is nobody to respond to their accusations.
I didn't say lurker hunting was a town tell, i said it was pro-town behavior, which it is.
In post 151, Yosarian2 wrote:This feels like a scummy vote from BBT, but obviously I may be biased here. Not getting a good vibe from his posting in general though.
You wanna elaborate on this bad vibe you're getting from my posting and why my vote is scummy? You need to stop stating things like they're fact and start explaining.
I'm going to say things however I want to, in whatever way I want to, and you are going to deal with it.
If you want to know, I think that I posted a list that had you in the "scummy" catagory, and you massivly over-reacted in a pretty irrational way, that didn't really make any sense at all. That makes you look bad.
Not only that, it makes me think that if you do flip scum, that probably most or all of your scum team is also on that scum list I posted, or you wouldn't be trying so hard to discredit me.
Also, you missed the part where I asked you to show me where Kmd was pushing ABR.
In post 69, Kmd4390 wrote:
Town it up if you are town. Be scummy if you are scum. Like if you are scum, keep buddying people like you have with Yos and BBT already
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 175, Aneninen wrote:
In post 151, Yosarian2 wrote:People make the mistake of "looking for people doing something scummy", but that's backwards; scum usually look null-ish if they're at all competent. So instead you need to look for people who are doing something townie and then lynch someone who's not.
Your logic is bad and you should feel bad. ^_^
No, it's not.
In my experence, town usually lose to semi-active scum who fly under the radar. That happens because people focus on attacking people who are loud, aggressive, and obnoxious, while ignoring people who are quiet and only just kind of contributing.
The best way to avoid that is, instead of only looking for scum tells, look for town tells, look for people who are acting like town. Make a list of them. Compare them to the list of the people playing the game. There will usually be a few people who aren't on your list of town people, and who you hadn't really even noticed were in the game and hadn't thought about until you made a list.
Those people are usually the scum.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 179, roflcopter wrote:also lol at yos trying to explain my playstyle to always innocent to no avail as he continues to run headfirst into the wall of being obvscum
sorry your coaching didn't work out yos, love ya buddy
Lol.
I was actually trying to explain to him that you act like this as town, rofl. I was defending you, and trying to difuse what is pretty obviously a town v town fight.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 194, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Yosarian, why is KMD town? She hasn't done anything.
Eh. There are things I like from his post #100, things I don't think would be to his advantage if he was scum.
Obviously these reads are all like 75% gut right now.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 196, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Surely there are players that are more town-leaning than KMD? It just seems off.
Objectivly speaking, probably. In practice, though, i highly doubt KMD is scum thus game. Of course that's based on pretty much one post and may changeI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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If it's your question about my list, I'm pretty sure I've answered it about 10 times by now?
I made a list of people who had done something at that point in the game that made me think they were town. shaddowez did not make the list.
Do you disagree with my read? Was there some specific post of shaddowez that strikes you as especially townie?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 209, acryon wrote:
But shouldn't scum look like town if they are competent? I think D1 especially, town are just as likely to look null as scum.
Looking town is a lot harder then looking null. Looking null, not doing things, is easy.
So what is the point of even saying this if it means he could be either scum or town?
Because it's information that I think will make it easier for people to read rofl, and will stop them from scum-reading him for things that are null or townish for him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 209, acryon wrote:
In post 151, Yosarian2 wrote: Not getting a good vibe from his posting in general though.
You say this, but you only really commented on his statements about you, which makes it feel OMGUSy.
If I had a logical case against BBT, clearly I would have made it. My read on him was mostly gut, up until the point where he massivly over-reacted to my list in a way that looks pretty scummy.
Before that, eh. His attacking people for confirming in the same way felt kind of dodgy. His vote and then later unvote for ABR on wasn't great; I get the vote was probably random, but then removing for reason was eeehh. His post 16 gives me a bad vibe:
In post 16, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:That is some top level psychological analysis.
You got me. Lynch me for I have sinned.
I got a worse vibe from him after he started posting content, which is unussal. His catch up post 142 was very, very wordy without really saying anything interesting, which is a bad sign.
In post 142, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Alright, I'm here and catching up. This is going to be a good game, I can feel it.
Can you tell me what the purpose of this post was Kmd? I feel like this post is made on the assumption that Lowell is town? If so, where has that read come from?
In post 32, roflcopter wrote:
hi, this is dumb. random chance says there is likely to be one scum in a group of four out of the thirteen players in this game, but your reason is bad.
vote: toffee
How dare you say my reasoning for finding scum on page 1 is both 'dumb' and 'bad'. That's the best damn page 1 reasoning you're ever likely to see.
Now, take that back.
In post 37, AlwaysInnocent wrote:So Toffee is scum?
Point of this post, AI?
This looks like a serious vote Tex, can you walk me through it? What was scummy about Kmd keeping a read to himself?
In post 44, acryon wrote:Yeah, actually ABR replaced into a game for me where I was scum and killing it, and he came in guns blazing and totally blew it.
VOTE: Albert B Rampage
This looks like another RVS vote. If it is, why are you ignoring the fact that Kmd has stated he has placed a serious vote on you?
In post 47, shaddowez wrote:VOTE: Acryon
Serious vote. Jumped on the BBT wagon when it was gaining steam, then when people stopped talking about him and started voting ABR he joins in to do the same.
I like this vote but for different reasons. As stated above.
ANd then he flipped out about my "list" in a really irrational way, spending 3 posts talking about it and demanding that I be lynched. The fact that he reacted so badly to it just makes me think that I have his entire scum team on my naughty list, and he's upset that his whole scum team is getting coal this year.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Why the hell do people keep voting for me? This is really getting stupid. I'm not sure if people are voting me because I'm actually scumhunting, or if people are voting me because God forboid a lot of my early-day 1 reads are gut (what the hell else couldthey be based on?) but nobody on this wagon has given any kind of reason for voting me. I mean, the only person who even tried to make a case was BBT, but he's probably scum.
Lowell, why is it that you said one thing about me that was 100% false, I proved it was 100% false, you didnt' respond, then you said another thing about me that was 100% wrong, I proved it was 100% wrong, and you then ingored both points and voted for me with no explanation?
I mean, if nobody else is going to try to actually play mafia this game, then I'll stop putting so much effort in, that's fine.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 225, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Roflcopter is being reckless (to the point of being annoying and foolish). Yosarian seems to play a very safe game however.
Uh. What? I'm playing in an incredibly risky fashion to the point of recklessness here to try and lynch scum.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p7500739]post 223[/url], Lowell"][quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p7500735]post 222[/url], AlwaysInnocent"][quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p7500713]post 220[/url], roflcopter"]lowell please just vote for alwaysinnocent with me. seriously, we can lynch yos tomorrow. anen is right that he's investigation bait. i'm also nostalgic and want more than one game day of yosarian2 even if he's going to play the take-my-ball-and-go-home card.[/quote]Stop being so foolish. It's going to lose us the game. Especially if you keep this up.[/quote]
Just so I'm clear, here. yos thinks you're town and it's suspicious, and rofl thinks you're scum you seem pretty sure he's town?[/quote]
Like i said, ai is obvtown here.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 226, shaddowez wrote:[
Yos- I can't say I'm a fan of lists since they provide no information, so since you gave one I'll ask about it. What makes Kop null-town but tex null-scum? They've had about the same amount of posts, and neither of them have really said anything groundbreakings.
Are you still voting Lucky because of their lurking, or because you actually think they're more scummy than your only other full scum read, BBT?
What made you change rofl from being "super town" in 151 to "leaning town" in 192?
I don't want to unvote lucky until he posts some real content. It's a mater of principle; i voted him for lurking, he came in and posted a few times but flatly refused to post content. That does not fly, towns should never let people get away with that.
Kop and tex are both basically null. I liked Kop's posts slightly more then tex, at least he seemed to be thinking about the game, but nothing major.
ROFL hasnt really changed. He's still probably town. Not quite as sure about him as some others, he can be tricksy, but he looks townish.
I don't know why people are so anti-list. Everyone should make a list, even if you don't share it. It forces you to read every single player in the game, and to try and form an opinion on them, even if it's not based on much.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 231, Kmd4390 wrote:
I'm finding it hard to believe Yos thinks not doing anything is optimal scum play,
Not quite what I said.
Optimal scum play is usually doing something, just.not a lot. Scum tend to do just enough to not be noticed, they aren't usually the loudest, most aggressive, ot most obnoxious person in the thread.
Of course, that's just a general rule of thumb, not all scum play like that. But there are other advantages as well; the more the town pressures people who are less active, the mote active everyone becomes, and that makes towns win a lot more
but I don't see the benefit of him lying about that either so... iunno... 215 is pretty bad though.
I really, really hate being voted for bad reasons when I'm town and am playing really well. I always seem to get mislynched as town for no fucking reason these days and it pisses me off.
I mean, obviously i knew that calling half the people in the game town was going to get me attacked, and defending contraversial people like AI, you, Albert, and rolf was likely to get me voted. But I'm clearly right; it really looks like all 4 of you are town. If I was scum I'd have sat back and let you 4 tear each other up.
AlwaysInnocent, why would Yos choose to buddy you specifically with a handful of older and more influential players in the game?[/quote]I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 239, Kmd4390 wrote:[
Yos, even then I'm having trouble seeing how scum can take control of the game by not being the more aggressive players.
Scum don't have to "take control of the game". If the loudest and most agressive players are town and they all fight each other, the scum can just stay out of the way and let them fight.
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Can you elaborate why on Page 10 with no flips yet and a wagon on you, you feel you are "playing well"?[/quote]
I'm pretty happy with my reads, even as early as page 4 I think I correctly picked out several town players. And I think my style has been very effective at getting people to move past the RVS and start playing.
I find it incredibly frustrating that there's a wagon on me for no real reason when i feel like my play has been so on point, and so effective, and so obviously pro-town.
And why you think rofl and myself are "controversial"?
I guess it's less true of you. But rofl was being attacked by AI, AI was being attacked by rofl, and Albert was being attacked by everyone including AI.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 243, Aneninen wrote:
In post 215, Yosarian2 wrote:I mean, the only person who even tried to make a case was BBT, but he's probably scum.
Yet you haven't built a case against BBT.[\quote]
I explained my scum read on bbt in some detail a few posts ago.
What do you think about BBT so far? Has he done anything that looks townish to you?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 252, Aneninen wrote:
In post 247, Yosarian2 wrote:What do you think about BBT so far? Has he done anything that looks townish to you?
I've played with him a lot of times. He's amongst those players I think I can read with quite a high accuracy rate. This gameplay I can see now is his town gameplay.
Interesting. Can you be a little more specific? What has he done that looks like his town play?
Are there any specific games he's been town and played like this i should be looking at?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Because this is townposting.
In post 248, Albert B. Rampage wrote:My scum pool is Lowell and Lucky.
quote="In post 250 , Albert B. Rampage"]The ghosts of christmas past told me[/quote]
Logical scum reads, combined with a flagrent refusal to explain themselves. Scumhunting + not giving a shit what anyone thinks = likely town.
I mean, to be fair, ABR is aware enough of his own meta to fake this as scum, but i don't think that is what is happening here.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I skimmed the games you linked about BTT in your post, anen. Offhand I don't really see the difference between his scum play and town play you're talking about, but I'll look again in more detail when I have more time (this is just a quick phone post).
Lucky: the whole "i posted content so now unvote me" thing is a little weak; most of the content you posted was just discussing mafia theory even though apparently you don't want to discuss mafia theory. Can you give us a few more reads? Who do you think looks townish, who looks scummy?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 306, Lucky2u wrote:oh I'm only asking you to unvote me because you said you would.
Not quite what I said.
I said I would not unvote you until you posted content. Not that you posting content would guarentee an immediate unvote. Obviously that would depend on what that content was and how it affected my read on you.
Now that I am back, explain why I am scum or unvote me.
(shrug) You have not yet convinced me you are town, and Anen's impassioned defense of BBT has made me doubt my read there at least until i have time to do some serious meta homework, so I don't see any reason to move my vote at the moment. Right now, that's all the case I need.
You want me to move my vote, convince me someone else is a better suspect.
I already told you who my scum reads are, read again if you didn't catch it. So who looks most town? For me that question is really, who appears the least scum? That would be BBT right now.
Interesting. Why BBT?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 310, Lucky2u wrote:I don't want you to move your vote, I don't really care about that. My concern is that you parked your vote on a player who was a then lurker so you wouldn't have to take a stance on anyone else.
I originally voted you for lurking. Then when you posted without posting content, even though you were clearly here and reading the game, the vote got a little stronger ("+ 10 scumpoints" was how I put it.) And then you did it a few more times, which I liked even less.
And as ABR has pointed out, I've taken a lot of stances on people, so the next line if fairly silly.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 315, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
I'm pretty sure I said why I didn't like your reads-list when I posted. You should go read my post again.
Ok, let me go back and see.
In post 145, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Ah, the old completely unnecessary, randomly inserted reads-list. A favourite for scum to look like they have 'reads' and are 'doing things'.
So no, you did not raise any specific problems with my list when I posted it. You claimed it was "unnecessary" which it clearly was not since i didn't know who to vote for until i went back and read everyone's comments in ISO and made a list of who i liked. I suppose i didn't have to share the list, but i think it's helpful to be transparent about your reads. And you claimed i was "trying to look like I was doing things" which is silly, i was certanly doing more "things" then many other people in the game at the time.
So no, you really didn't give any real reasons, other then an n apparent dislike of lists.
You're right though, lots of people make reads-lists. Sometimes though, a reads-list just isn't required, or it doesn't say a lot or there is something else wrong with it. I have caught scum by them posting awful reads-lists before. You wouldn't be the first.
Except that was an awesome list, especally for page 4. And I notice you still can't say anything specific against it.
It's not actually the 'making of the list' that's scummy. I mean, it still kind of is because nobody needs a reads-list on page 5 or whatever it was, but it's the fact that you felt the need to post it. You didn't need to post it, the only purpose of posting it is to look 'pro-town', especially as you later admit your reads are based mainly on gut.
I posted it because it's good to share your reads with the rest if the town. Reasons are less important then what the reads are.
And if you think I was trying to look pro-town by posting a bunch of town reads with no reasons, you're crazy. I expect random newbs who don't really understand the game to vote me when i do stuff like that. But your reaction was really weird.
I've cut the quotes out from ABR - go and look at what happened right before ABR started posting like that. I picked the fight with ABR, not the other way around. [\quote]
That's reasonable. Frankly, there's a reason i labled the top half of the list "people i don't want to lynch right now" and not "town reads". I would not say i had a strong read on ABR that early.
Now I do, though, and I think my early gut-read on him was right.
In post 188, Yosarian2 wrote:I think I just explained that?
He's trying to scumhunt, he doesn't care how his scumhunting makes him look, he's aggressive, he's not being cautious. Those are all town traits.
The main difference between town and scum is that town's #1 priority is to find scum, while scum's #1 priority is not being lynched. When a person starts taking risks, being aggressive, and sticking their necks out to try to find scum, apparently without caring how it makes them look, that's a town tell.
Fantastic. Now, tell me why these tells apply to AI and not me? Because I'm not seeing consistency in your reads.
Consistency is a scum tell.
Anyway, I don't suspect you for lack of scumhunting, i suspect you because you have done some weird things. It's not that you weren't scumhunting, it's that I don't really buy your scumhunting. A lot of the stuff you did early in the game feels weird, and your reaction to my lst really feels off.
And I certanly haven't been getting the vibe that "you don't care what people think" that I got from ABR.
Secondly, I am clearly doubting your AI town read, I think it is clear to see from my posting that I do not think AI is town so I'm not sure why you're feigning confusion.
Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. You think AI is scum? Can you explain why?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Bah, i keep screwing up the quote tags. Last post should have looked like this
In post 315, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
I'm pretty sure I said why I didn't like your reads-list when I posted. You should go read my post again.
Ok, let me go back and see.
In post 145, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Ah, the old completely unnecessary, randomly inserted reads-list. A favourite for scum to look like they have 'reads' and are 'doing things'.
So no, you did not raise any specific problems with my list when I posted it. You claimed it was "unnecessary" which it clearly was not since i didn't know who to vote for until i went back and read everyone's comments in ISO and made a list of who i liked. I suppose i didn't have to share the list, but i think it's helpful to be transparent about your reads. And you claimed i was "trying to look like I was doing things" which is silly, i was certanly doing more "things" then many other people in the game at the time.
So no, you really didn't give any real reasons, other then an n apparent dislike of lists.
You're right though, lots of people make reads-lists. Sometimes though, a reads-list just isn't required, or it doesn't say a lot or there is something else wrong with it. I have caught scum by them posting awful reads-lists before. You wouldn't be the first.
Except that was an awesome list, especally for page 4. And I notice you still can't say anything specific against it.
It's not actually the 'making of the list' that's scummy. I mean, it still kind of is because nobody needs a reads-list on page 5 or whatever it was, but it's the fact that you felt the need to post it. You didn't need to post it, the only purpose of posting it is to look 'pro-town', especially as you later admit your reads are based mainly on gut.
I posted it because it's good to share your reads with the rest if the town. Reasons are less important then what the reads are.
And if you think I was trying to look pro-town by posting a bunch of town reads with no reasons, you're crazy. I expect random newbs who don't really understand the game to vote me when i do stuff like that. But your reaction was really weird.
I've cut the quotes out from ABR - go and look at what happened right before ABR started posting like that. I picked the fight with ABR, not the other way around.
That's reasonable. Frankly, there's a reason i labled the top half of the list "people i don't want to lynch right now" and not "town reads". I would not say i had a strong read on ABR that early.
Now I do, though, and I think my early gut-read on him was right.
In post 188, Yosarian2 wrote:I think I just explained that?
He's trying to scumhunt, he doesn't care how his scumhunting makes him look, he's aggressive, he's not being cautious. Those are all town traits.
The main difference between town and scum is that town's #1 priority is to find scum, while scum's #1 priority is not being lynched. When a person starts taking risks, being aggressive, and sticking their necks out to try to find scum, apparently without caring how it makes them look, that's a town tell.
Fantastic. Now, tell me why these tells apply to AI and not me? Because I'm not seeing consistency in your reads.
Consistency is a scum tell.
Anyway, I don't suspect you for lack of scumhunting, i suspect you because you have done some weird things. It's not that you weren't scumhunting, it's that I don't really buy your scumhunting. A lot of the stuff you did early in the game feels weird, and your reaction to my lst really feels off.
And I certanly haven't been getting the vibe that "you don't care what people think" that I got from ABR.
Secondly, I am clearly doubting your AI town read, I think it is clear to see from my posting that I do not think AI is town so I'm not sure why you're feigning confusion.
Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. You think AI is scum? Can you explain why?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 317, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:[
In post 229, Yosarian2 wrote:
Uh. What? I'm playing in an incredibly risky fashion to the point of recklessness here to try and lynch scum.
What? How is your play in any way reckless and how are you trying to lynch scum? You're voting a lurker, a lurker who you have no case on I should add.
Did you miss the part where I townread half the people in the game on page 4? I mean, obviously not since that's the excuse you gave for voting me.
OK, so this makes no sense at all. Youexpectedto be attacked for your reads-list (cough *you're lying* cough), I attacked you, and you called me scum for it? Can you explain how that works when you was expecting to be attacked?
Of course i expected it. Some people always react badly to stuff they're not used to, especally newbies.
But that doesn't at all explain your reaction, which was much stronger then that and really made no sense at all, especally since you are not a newbie.
If you want to try to explain yoursrlf better, feel free, but your extreme reaction just feels fake and scummy.
In post 246, Yosarian2 wrote:
Scum don't have to "take control of the game". If the loudest and most agressive players are town and they all fight each other, the scum can just stay out of the way and let them fight.
This is another comment in a growing list of comments that seem to directly contradict your read on me. Let's talk about that.
Not all scum play that way, of course. Did you really think that I was saying no scum are ever active, or that all scum have the exact same playstyle?
Scum are at least somewhat more likely then town to lurk and/or try to stay out of the spotlight. That is simply true. Of course some town lurk, and of course some scum are active and aggressive.
You attempt to find "contradictions" where there clearly aren't any is not really making you look better.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 335, roflcopter wrote:i'm also waiting for yos to stop burying himself in a stupid argument about reads lists and tell me in words why ai is a townread
He's not as hard a town read as he was a few pages ago. Still leaning town on him, though.
For one thing, if he was scum, I don't really think he would turn on me like that and vote me when i was the one defending him. That does not seem like something a scum worried about self preservation would do.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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In post 341, roflcopter wrote:In post 340, Yosarian2 wrote:For one thing, if he was scum, I don't really think he would turn on me like that and vote me when i was the one defending him. That does not seem like something a scum worried about self preservation would do.
so much wifom
is there a second thing? or a third thing?
Not really WIFOM. Person A calls person B town, person B votes person A. Person B is clearly does not care about trying to stay on person As good list. Which makes me thin AI cares more about scumhunting then survival.
He's also moving his vote around a lot in a way that feels townish, like he's really scumhunting.
There are a few other iffy things he's done since then though. I agree the KMD thing felt oppertunistic, and he's not reacting well to pressure. So he is down from a strong town read to a weaker town read.
I did explain my earlier game town read on him back in post 151.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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bbt wrote:What I was trying to get at is that I think Yos' reasons for town reading ABR are BS. I think it's an early read to try and pocket ABR (and I think it's working). I don't think scum!Yos reads scum!ABR like that, I think he would try and flesh out the read a little more. I think this is scum!Yos trying to pocket town!ABR and nullify a potential threat to him.
Oh please. Have you ever played with Albert? He's not the type to trust you just because you call him town.
I get that most people can't read ABR. But he looks like town ABR this game.
Obviously my page 4 read was based on very little, my goal was just to skim everyone in the game and try to make a snap judgement on every single person. It's a good scumhunting technique.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 348, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:In post 329, Yosarian2 wrote:
In post 145, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Ah, the old completely unnecessary, randomly inserted reads-list. A favourite for scum to look like they have 'reads' and are 'doing things'.
So no, you did not raise any specific problems with my list when I posted it. You claimed it was "unnecessary" which it clearly was not since i didn't know who to vote for until i went back and read everyone's comments in ISO and made a list of who i liked. I suppose i didn't have to share the list, but i think it's helpful to be transparent about your reads. And you claimed i was "trying to look like I was doing things" which is silly, i was certanly doing more "things" then many other people in the game at the time.
I see, so what you're saying is I said your reads-list was unnecessary, random, an attempt to look like you had reads (look pro-town) and an attempt to look busy (pro-town) but none of those constitute as problems to you? OK then
None of those statements have anything to do with my list in specific or my play in general.
So either you have a problem with early game lists in general or you're full of bullshit. And you keep denying you have a problem with lists in general.
That's the whole point, there was no need for you to share that reads-list at that point in the game.
That's a totally nonesensical statement. There is never a time in a mafia game you should not be sharing your reads. I can't even imagine how you could claim otherwise.
Page 4 reads-lists aren't worth shit.
If you think that is true, then why are you so obsessed with mine? You're not making sense here at all.
No, it isn't. It's quite easy to infer people's reads from the way they talk about/to people. Reads-lists simply are not needed.
Sure, there are other ways to share your reads. How you do it is a styalistic choice. But a few sentances ago you were trying to say that somehow sharing reads at all on page 4 is scummy.
[/quote]
In post 329, Yosarian2 wrote:Consistency is a scum tell.
No, it really isn't. Reading different people differently for the same actions is scummy and shows a flaw in your thought process.
In a real mafia game, context matters. Timing matters. Personalities matter. Meta matters. Experence matters. Even just the mood the person seems to be in matters. Two posts can look similar but mean very different things. Plus, a townie will sometimes re-read the same part of the same game twice and read it differently.
The only time someone is really consistant is if they're a scum and care more about looking consistent then real scumhunting. Town people don't care if they look consistant.
Of course, in this case, you are lying anyway and inventing inconsistencies that you have to know are not really there.
In post 329, Yosarian2 wrote:Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. You think AI is scum? Can you explain why?
I could do, but I'm much more interested in getting you lynched right now.
Yeah, that's what i thought. Just more fake scumhunting coming from BBT, nothing he can really back up.
And here, he totally gives up any attempt to even pretend to scumhunt and just tries to bully people into joining my wagon. Including, oddly, the person he was pretending t scum read a minute ago but couldn't explain why.
In post 330, roflcopter wrote:ok at this point i could lynch either ai or yos today, nostalgia be damned. they're both scum.
You should absolutely join the Yos wagon.
In post 331, AlwaysInnocent wrote:How about Yosarian + KMD?
You seem to think Yos has a decent chance of being scum and if I remember correctly you spoke earlier about bigger wagon being more effective than one vote wagons? How about you join the Yos wagon
In post 329, Yosarian2 wrote:But that doesn't at all explain your reaction, which was much stronger then that and really made no sense at all, especally since you are not a newbie.
Why doesn't it explain the action? You expected to be attacked for your reads-list, and I attacked you. That seems quite a natural flow of events.
Because in your case, it was clearly fake scumhunting. You don't really believe lists are scummy, and you can't explain why mine was without vague generalities that don't make sense in this context.
In post 329, Yosarian2 wrote:Not all scum play that way, of course. Did you really think that I was saying no scum are ever active, or that all scum have the exact same playstyle?
Scum are at least somewhat more likely then town to lurk and/or try to stay out of the spotlight. That is simply true. Of course some town lurk, and of course some scum are active and aggressive.
You attempt to find "contradictions" where there clearly aren't any is not really making you look better.
Of course you have to state that, otherwise you would have no reasons for thinking I am scum (even though you're still yet to put your vote where your mouth is).
There are clearly contradictions in your posts and how they correlate to your reads. I just showed you one.
And now, you , he ignore everything i just said and just rely on empty rhetoric instead.-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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BBT is pretty clealy scum here. He's not really scumhunting. He's not really saying anything relevent, just posts wall after wall of text to try to srive a mislynch he doesn't really believe in.
[vote:bbt[/vote]
Lucky is stll probably scum as well but he'll have to wait.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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In post 351, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
If I get lots of townie points, then I will bus everyone you want.In post 347, roflcopter wrote:ai, come back to your bus vote on yos and i'll give you a townie brownie!
VOTE: Yosarian
Ok, now that was scummy.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In post 350, roflcopter wrote:shhhhh yos just go quietly to the gallows like a good scum
You have voted me and been convinced i an scum in literally every game we have ever played.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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In post 372, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Let's get a bandwagon on Lucky going.
I'm not as sure about him anymore.
Right now, leaning towards BBT or Lowell.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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So you're just not going to respond to any of my points at all, BBT? Nothing?
Can we just lynch BBT already? Sorry, Anen, but scum can do that "machine gun of questions" thing just as easily. The difference is, scum don't really care about the answers, because they're not really scumhunting. And BBT obviously doesn't care about anything I say, he's just trying to push a mislynch based on sheer volume of words, no actual logic.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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In post 397, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:No, I'm bored of going around in circles with you and having to deal with your flat out false statements/accusations.
Absolutly nothing I have said is "false". And I think you know that.
confirm vote:BBTDie scum die.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I mean, even when you were responding to me, you were constantly evasive, avoiding discussing the actual subjects you supposedly cared about, and you kept avoidning talking about the actual game and falling back on vague generalizations and empty rhetoric. If you honestly thought I was scum, then fine, but it's becoming more and more clear that you don't actually believe anything you're saying.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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In post 399, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Shadow you should join the Yos wagon.
Kop, you should bus your buddy.
And here we go again. BBT is just trying to bully people into joining a mislynch, he's not even pretending to scumhunt anymore.
It's frustating people keep calling him town just because he's posting a lot. Nothing BBT is doing seems to have a town motive at all.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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BBT's entire argument against me was that I posted a list on page 4. He claims he doesn't think lists are scummy, but claims that somehow my list was me "pretending to provide content" or something, as if I haven't been giving more content and reads then anyone else in the game.
And that's it. He's got nothing else. He just keeps repeating that, while refuisng to explain it, and is now trying to get me lynched by just spamming the hell out of the thread with no content poists.
He just needs to die. And then when he flips scum and his buddies nightkill me tonight, just remember that at least one of his scum buddies is on my page 4 list, probably both of them.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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- Location: New Jersey
In post 406, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Is it hard to leave the thread when you're scum and under pressure?
Always have that feeling that you need to defend yourself in case you get lynched while you're away?
Fortunately, I can help you. Let me relieve that pressure by tying this rope gently around your neck...
I don't care that I have 5 votes on me and you only have 1. You are going to die today. Because logic always triumphs over bullshit.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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- Posts: 16394
- Joined: March 28, 2005
- Location: New Jersey
In post 412, Kmd4390 wrote:
Yos, do you really think that BBT would be so concerned that you listed his whole team as scum on Page 4 that he'd push your lynch over it? You said yourself that town's reads change all the time. Why wouldn't he just ride it out until you change your mind on some things?
Logically that might be better, but I've seen scum flip out over that kind of thing before. Some scum do not react well to that kind of thing. It especally pisses then off if they get called out for what they think is a bad reason.
Look at his word choices. He keeps saying stuff like "page 4 reads are shit" and going way out of his way to try to discredit that list. He's not just trying to lynch me, he's trying to lynch me and to discredit that list.
He probably really believes hes going to get me lynched today. He's wrong, I'm not that easy to mislynch, but he doesn't know me that well. So if he really thought i was going to flip scum, then he wouldn't need to discredit my reads like that. But I think he knows I'm going to flip town, so he wants to discredit my reads as well.
In any case, he just does not seem to be someone who's honestly trying to find scum. He doesn't seen to care what I say or what I do and he doesn't care if the things he says are correct or not. He's not looking for scum, he's just pushing a wagon.
Yos, can you point me to why you thought ABR was being aggressive towards BBT?
If you're talking about my page 4 read, on ABR obviously it wasn't based on much, but i can explain it again if you want. Out of time right now though so I'll come back and do that in a seperate post later.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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- Posts: 16394
- Joined: March 28, 2005
- Location: New Jersey
In post 383, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
This is the second joke that you missed. Please don't insult my intelligence.bus?
BUS?
The problem is, I don't know if you would make that joke if you actually thought i was scum. You clearly care a lot about how you look, so if you actually thought I was going to flip scum, you would be worried that people think you and I are connected.
Insead, you're joking about it, which really only makes sense if you already know I'm going to flip town. Even when you're trying to lynch me. Putting the 5th vote on a bad wagon on me for no reason in fact.
Yeah. Between this and the KMD post, town read on AI is officially dead.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie