Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I confirm availability to receive a role PM-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I also totally had a panic attack of "wait, what role am I in this game?"
Glad coming to thread sorted that!-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Spoken like a true scum, trying to muddy the waters, clearly.
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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That logic would make Transcend scum - so why aren't you voting the larger wagon?In post 27, Io wrote:VOTE: Luna Fox
Clearly you're trying to defend your scum buddy by ignoring the votes placed upon him.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Unvote: Transcend
Vote: Karnos
Intentionally not answering the RQS.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I don't scumread Karnos, I townread you.In post 56, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:You're better at reading my own RQS than I am it seems :/
Do you mind elaborating a bit more? There are some other things I wanted to look into in Karnos's answers later but I thought it might be better to wait until more people answer so it doesn't bias answers if I point it out.
In post 57, Io wrote:Because I'm to lazy to mathz in order to find out how much majority is.
Io is also an acceptable lynch.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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No - what part of 'I townread you' is confusing?In post 63, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:So, Thor, the vote on Karnos was just RVS?
You are a townread.
You're voting Karnos.
Ergo, if I'm right about you, statistically by voting who you vote I'm more likely to target scum.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I haven't made a random vote at any time in this game.
Nor will I.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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In this topic people question my vote because it's possible for town to vote town.
This is shocking news to me, and not information I am able to process.
I'm going to have a good long sit, and re-analyze the way I approach not just Mafia, but life as well.
I do mildly agree that Karnos' comment was a roundabout attack on me, I double down on it when he goes to the 'well, of the *active* posters' defense.
Yeah, pretty happy with this vote.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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When he voted Karnos - because it was such a brilliant tryhard type early case, pinged as town.In post 85, Tenshii wrote:@Thor At what post did you start townreading giga and why?
I also townread Transcendence now - his Luna case is a laugh, but I townread him.
Aw cradsticks - fine, I'll try my best.
I loathe the creation of that tag becoming a mod ruleset occasionally.
Is it the auto counter? Does it not pick up on Bold tags or something? Or do you just love the highlight?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Laughter is the best medicine though.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Karnos does look a little flaily to me, but he does appear to have a valid point that you're stretching in your value calls on his stated beliefs.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I liked that post, I don't see the scum energy in it in any way at all - what are you guys seeing?In post 134, Transcend wrote:HOLY SMURF THIS POST IS 20 LEVELS OF AWFUL
This logic doesn't make any sense.In post 139, karnos wrote:The problem I have with Thor is his logic is inconsistent. He thinks his read is so good he can trust you as town after only a couple posts. Okay, maybe his read is so good, but if you accept that he is so good at reading people, then shouldn't he pick his own scum to vote, based on his amazing reads? Instead he chooses to sheep you. It's like he is saying he is so good at reading people that he is 100% convinced you are town, but at the same time he isn't confident enough in his reads to independently vote on his biggest scum read. It's a weird inconsistency to me.
Let's presume for a moment that you are absolutely correct and this is *exactly* how I see myself.
What presumes that I have a scum read at that stage of the game?
Because that's all that doesn't need to happen for this case to fall apart. Maybe I got my magical super accurate town read and haven't yet got a scum read - and, presto, my vote makes perfect sense even within the strange world of Mystic Thor the Wonderous Seer.
Do you have a rejoinder?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I did not do what you think I did - my "intentionally not answering RQS" comment was self-referential.In post 150, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:To get to the point, why was the reasoning for your vote, "Intentionally not answering the RQS," and not "I agree with her, that joke seemed forced," or something to that effect? By giving a different reason to vote, it seems as though you have something else to bring to the Karnos wagon that pertains to his RQS answers.
I was saying that I wasn't answering the RQS - I said this so that you would know I wasn't doing so on purpose, so you wouldn't need to waste time asking me if I missed the questions or something.
The same.In post 150, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:For everyone, this is more of a theory question about semi-nightless in general: Since there are more mislynches available to us than normal (we get 4 before LYLO rather than 3), does this give townies more, less, or the same amount of an incentive to be defensive in your opinion?
Town shouldn't try to get lynched, and town shouldn't go softly into that good night unless town is playing badly.
Value call is offering your thoughts on the worth of a given item/thought/occurrence.In post 155, Io wrote:
I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.In post 130, Thor665 wrote:Karnos does look a little flaily to me, but he does appear to have a valid point that you're stretching in your value calls on his stated beliefs.
Mostly because I don't know what a value call is or can really find it on google.
Replace it with 'opinion' and the meaning remains the same.
Allow me to sum it up in your words;In post 155, Io wrote:But I don't really see how his point is valid
So, basically, he *didn't* say something.In post 155, Io wrote:which wouldn't even be a lie as it's just interpretation
You then said he *did* say something.
He calls it a lie.
You call it an "interpretation".
Okay, so if he didn't say it - it's valid of him to take a stance against you - because you're apparently making up stuff about his beliefs.
Why is this confusing or surprising to you?
Didn't he do that by saying that he *never said at all* what you were "interpreting" him as saying - which means you know he didn't say it, but kind of think he...implied it or something?In post 155, Io wrote:A defense from him wouldn't have even been that hard to make as all he would have needed to do was to explain how I was interrupting his intentions wrong.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I'm currently in the middle of an assessment - hit me up for thoughts after I'm done.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Well, that's a bad lead in if you're not making up stuff.In post 160, Io wrote:But I'm still not making stuff up about him.
Sure, of course he didn't say that,
I agree with this.In post 160, Io wrote: but the wording he used made it clear that he was trying to attack you
The problem is you said this;In post 89, Io wrote:But that's not what I was saying. I was saying you were claiming to want him lynched and claiming to have never pushed for his lynched at the same time.What he said you were lying about was *not* the first part, but rather the second part.
Okay, actually in arguing this, I'm back on your side now.
You are being flighty, but you're also being correct.
@Karnos - allow me to provide the evidence Io hasn't;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8120442
This is where you were distancing from the position of attacking me.
I no longer see a lie - unless it's from you.
Want to clarify?
@Giga - lean town on Io.
He says in a filler postIn post 161, Killthestory wrote:oh my god so many long posts that are literally ALL FILLER.
why can't any of you be concise?
You didn't answer my question - is this an intentional dodge? If I don't have to keep asking it over and over it would be good to know.In post 166, Transcend wrote:Yeah still okay with roping Thor atm lol.
Here it is again, in case you just missed it;
"What is it about Post 64 that reads as scummy to you?"
Question asked here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8123030
Post 64 here, in case you need to research it;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8120352-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Yeah, sorry, I forgot I only do those as scum, mah badIn post 168, Killthestory wrote:I SAID NO MORE WALLS-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Yeah, guess I did, ya got me.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Are you being serious right now, or are we still joking?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Because if you're being serious, you're rude and bad at applying pressure.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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This isn't baby stuff - so you're advancing "walls" as a scumtell?In post 175, Killthestory wrote:Lol you think I'm applying pressure.
I'm here to lynch you, not do some baby Smurf where I pressure you to get a read on you.
My bad, I'll reassess how I read your play.
I would agree.In post 183, karnos wrote:You are pushing this inane theory that you are really good at town-reading people but really bad at scum reading them, which doesn't pass muster.
Especially since I never said anything like that.
What I *did* say was that in your theory world, maybe I didn't have a scumread yet - which is totally different.
Could you answer again now that you understand what I actually said?
Yes you did.In post 192, karnos wrote:That isn't me distancing from attacking you because I didn't attack you up to that point.
I utterly agree with Io on that point, and it's kind of comical that you're arguing against that - even in your answer you're kind of half agreeing you're attacking me, just also attacking people who also hadn't posted yet.
StreeeeeetchIn post 192, karnos wrote:Yes, I had noted your refusal to answer and it is the reason i asked the question, but that doesn't make the question an attack on you.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Well, first off - you're dodging.In post 202, karnos wrote:
You are correct, you didn't say anything like that, I was just interpreting your post and reading between the lines, and taking into account the game state.In post 195, Thor665 wrote:
I would agree.In post 183, karnos wrote:You are pushing this inane theory that you are really good at town-reading people but really bad at scum reading them, which doesn't pass muster.
Especially since I never said anything like that.
But now you seem to be pushing the idea that Io can interpret my posts, read details that were unsaid and you fully support her, while here you are arguing that your posts can only be taken literally.
It's a bit of a contradiction in your logic.
Second off - my post wasn't actually open to your interpretation - because I explicitly stated what I meant, and you then ignored that and inserted a different concept.
Third off - you're actually ignoring that I kind of started on your side in that debate until I looked it over long enough to decide I agreed with Io's stance, so clearly my initial stance is you shouldn't really try to interpret much, and I think what she chose to interpret makes sense, and, as even you have said, it was an attack on me - your only disagreement is whether it was a directed attack on me - which means she's not interpreting much.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I asked a question - you inserted an answer that contained logic I had claimed the opposite of using - I clarified that for you and asked you the question again - you then defended your bad insertion without answering the question.In post 210, karnos wrote:1- Dodging what? You asked a question, I answered. I am not going to point by point respond to every line in your post, if there is one line in particular you really want me to answer, let me know and I will.
So to ask the question again;In post 149, Thor665 wrote:Let's presume for a moment that you are absolutely correct and this is *exactly* how I see myself.
What presumes that I have a scum read at that stage of the game?
Because that's all that doesn't need to happen for this case to fall apart. Maybe I got my magical super accurate town read and haven't yet got a scum read - and, presto, my vote makes perfect sense even within the strange world of Mystic Thor the Wonderous Seer.
Do you have a rejoinder?
It was top of page 3 of the game - I had developed a town read, other people had developed scum reads; I don't see the evidence to suggest that makes me slow in developing reads, and even if I am slow in developing reads, I don't see how that makes me scummy.In post 210, karnos wrote:2- Your post was certainly open to interpretation. You said you only had a town read on giga. The question is WHY. At least 4 players had scum reads, and were voting on them outside of RVS AFAICT. You are apparently bad at hunting scum, otherwise you would at least be on par with those other 4 players. The fact you didn't have a scum read when several other players did seems to indicate that.
Since I had other posts defending you, I didn't exactly *need* to show that I had been defending you, it was part of an ongoing conversation.In post 210, karnos wrote:3- You mean your fake change of heart, mid post? If you changed your mind before hitting submit, you know you can go back and edit the start of your post. I find that posting style to be weird, like you are trying too hard to show you are working from a town thought process. And it was an attack on giga, you, and every non-active player in the game, and players in prior games who skipped out on the questionnaire. Your very selective interpretation that it was only about you is plainly wrong.
And, yes, i see you agreeing with me here about my understanding of your claimed beliefs.
That is called attacking someone without voting them - which is a very common scum tactic to avoid VCA and to stay off town wagons.In post 210, karnos wrote:Can you just explain to me what the scum motivation would be to "attack you" without using your name, without voting you, and while questioning a player other than you?
Can you explain the town strategy of attacking someone while *not* being up front about it?
I'm not the proud owner of a post at either the top of 9 nor the bottom of 8 - what changed your read on me from ranting about how I looked like I was pulling a scum maneuver to having me as a town read as I didn't have a post near there, and also don't think I've changed my style at any point this game?In post 218, Kcdaspot wrote:and the top of page 9 and THOR IS TOWN YHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS PRAISE THE aLL MIGHTY
If you opt to stay can you clarify for me whether you are intentionally dodging my question to you about how my Post 64 was scummy?In post 260, Transcend wrote:Alright so i skimmed this game a bit at work. I'll answer queries when i get home. However most likely either I'm gonna sub out our kcda (sp?) is going to. I'm not gonna tolerate playing with someone with that obnoxious posting style.
You've done it twice now - I'd love it if you'd say it was intentional so I could stop reminding you.
Or you could answer it, if you really are just missing the question.
Do you not understand the case on him, or do you understand the case and disagree with it?In post 267, Tenshii wrote:I still don't get why Karnos is scum. Please don't lynch him when we're like only 2 days into it.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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So you find my reason to vote to be so weak that I must be scum?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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What do you think of KTS's vote on me for "posting walls" is that stronger or weaker than sheeping a townread's vote?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I do scumread Karnos - I wouldn't still be sitting on him explaining how his stances don't make sense if I didn't give a hang about the slot.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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But the initial vote was *assuredly* deliberate sheeping, so if that's a scumtell to you - you better stick tight.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Okay, so me placing a vote on Page 3 off slim reasoning, and then later having better reasons for voting it = scummy due to the way I got on the wagon.
KTS voting me for 'walls' but having 'deeper reasons' that he hasn't said yet = town, because the stated reason for getting on the wagon then doesn't matter.
You logic does not fill me with joy.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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There's nothing to comment on - he's intentionally playing to occlude his stances, and isn't actually participating in any meaningful way.In post 284, Kcdaspot wrote:Yet to see Thor comment on KTL...
Because, as you admitted, you were answering it with stuff you were making up that I hadn't said.In post 285, karnos wrote:This was the response right here, you even quoted it, so I'm puzzled why you are acting like you aren't aware of it:
Weren't you the one arguing that scuma nd town reads are functionally the same thing? So I have a read - they have a read.In post 285, karnos wrote:>What presumes that I have a scum read at that stage of the game?
See above. Other players had scum reads, you aren't an inferior player so you should have one as well.
Or are you arguing they're different things when it benefits you?
You're the one stating that my belief in my reads has to be hyper to do what I did - I very clearly stated I was arguing from the perspective of the world you were claiming I was operating in.In post 285, karnos wrote:>Maybe I got my magical super accurate town read
Once your argument is using magic as an explanation, it's obviously just BS
You still haven't clarified why it's an issue beyond "I think you should have had a scumread at that point"
Am I wrong?
Agreed - but Io didn't then deny that she was attacking you.In post 285, karnos wrote:Okay, for the sake of argument assume you are correct, "attacking without voting" is something only scum do.
Why aren't you reading 75 as scummy? Io was attacking me with that post, but she didn't vote me.
That's kind of a big difference.
You and I both know you were attacking me - I might be willing to buy that you were also attacking other people in addition to me, but your defense tack didn't really read as honest. If your reply had been something like ;Yeah, I'm attacking Thor, and also everyone who hasn't posted' though I still wouldn't understand the purpose to attack everyone who hadn't posted it would have felt more honest than going 'no I wasn't'.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I can, he's basically extroverting bully and being really proud of his big brain - he's sort of like a much less impressive ABR or something and could easily be town who just is bad.In post 291, Kcdaspot wrote:@thor: huh? what town opens like that thoo? his opening posts isn't all that scummy i admit but put into context with the rest of his posting I can not see him as not scum.
Compare/contrast with Karanos and how he's fielding questions, like, literally this sequence just happened;
Thor: question for Karanos.
Karanos: Misrep answer.
Thor: That's a misrep answer, here's clarification if you're confused, answer now?
Karanos: Defends the point of the misrep as some sort of weird 'teaching me a lesson' thing.
Thor: ...ooookay, so will you answer now?
Karanos: What'chu talkin' about? 'quotes the misrep answer' I already did!
If he is town, he is literally insane - we should lynch him.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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You're not actually making much of a case there - functionally what you're saying is 'isn't it possible he's town and just presenting multiple bad arguments?' to which my reply is - yeah, that is assuredly possible.In post 300, Tenshii wrote:For the sake of understanding where I'm coming from, force yourself to temporarily read Karnos as town. 100% town. Then reread this whole thread (because argument took like 75% of the thread and I s2g I reread this thread at least like 3 times trying to see where you guys are coming from so at least read it once through for me) and try to tell me that it's impossible for him to come from town. I think you're all just stubborn and think that you're so committed and deep in the hole that if you abandoned that wagon, you guys would feel dumb. So I'll give you all the light at the end of the tunnel you're looking for...
But, it's also possible he is scum, and is presenting multiple bad arguments due to being caught out.
At that stage the only question is which theory do you believe more?
I believe the scum one more because the conversations are so wonky - reference my breakdown about him misrepping me and then citing it as a valid answer even though he admitted he misrepped me. Just roll that one around in your head.
Let's say you're Karanos and you're town.
You are asked a question.
You misunderstand what I'm asking, and answer it wrong.
I point this out and ask you to answer the question.
You agree that you misrepresented me.
I say 'golly, thanks, now will you answer the original question?'
You respond with 'I already answered it!'
How does that work for town? If you misrepresented me - then you know you didn't answer it, because you were answering off wrong info. So, yes, you *do* still need to answer it again. So how can he admit he was wrong in how he answered the question and also claim it was a valid answer? I don't see that coming from town - because it would require insanity. Ergo, i see him as scum.
Why do you see it coming from town?-
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I see you citing the defensiveness - did he lack the logic also?In post 305, Transcend wrote:Can we get momentum this way? Karnos was in one of my newbie games so i have experience with him. He was town and his play this game is nearly replicated to last time. Plus pc's vote on karnos which is presumably rvs is very deliberately an attempt to build up his roping.
I have a game with him where he was town, and he had fine logic in that one.
In post 306, Tenshii wrote:@ Thor, what posts please. Specifically what posts. I'm pretty sure I'm misreading who's "You" and "I" in your post so I want it clear.
Here's the link filled breakdown.
Thor: question for Karanos.
Karanos: Misrep answer.
Thor: That's a misrep answer, here's clarification if you're confused, answer now?
Karanos: Defends the point of the misrep as some sort of weird 'teaching me a lesson' thing.
I cited him for dodging here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8124872
He asked, dodging what? here; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8124920 (these last two weren't in my original lineup, but are here for completeness)
Thor: ...ooookay, so will you answer now?
Karanos: What'chu talkin' about? 'quotes the misrep answer' I already did!-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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In post 149, Thor665 wrote:Let's presume for a moment that you are absolutely correct and this is *exactly* how I see myself.
What presumes that I have a scum read at that stage of the game?
Yeah...except I'm not saying that, and if you can see how he logically interpreted that I was saying that - I'll give you a cookie.In post 183, karnos wrote:You are pushing this inane theory that you are really good at town-reading people but really bad at scum reading them, which doesn't pass muster.
And let's even go on further - do you think it is legit, if he agrees that he misunderstood/misrepped me in his answer, that he doesn't need to actually answer the question because he already did a misunderstanding/misrep answer?
Like, even if I was to go along on the crazy train that is his was a reasonable misrep teaching point (and I don't) do you then think it justifies as an answer to my question about his logic?-
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I don't have meta on Transcend!In post 339, Tenshii wrote:Transcend, in this game, who do you not have meta on?
Oh, look, now that you have a Misunderstanding ANSWER you don't need an actual answer to that question, amirite?-
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I did - my response is in 340, and snarkily in 341.In post 342, Tenshii wrote:Thor did you read my 338?-
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Who do you expect to do the lol hammer?In post 355, Transcend wrote:Why would you park your vote on a townread who is L-2 and has the potential to get LOLhammered?-
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In post 361, Transcend wrote:I'm not saying heWOULDget lolhammered i'm saying heCOULDget lolhammered.
::Checks thread to see if he is in Road to Rome and forgot...::
The difference being - Karnos agrees he was attacking me (sorta) he just also claims other attacks.In post 363, Tenshii wrote:Line 1- THATS THE WHOLE POINT. YOU think that it's illogical to interpret it that way. But then Karnos is trying to bring up how Io is doing the same thing to Karnos (This is shown in the quote below)
His lesson was derp terrible because he made up something while ignoring that I directly explained my answer as something else entirely.
So we're going with the answer; Thor is scummy for not having a scum read by Page 3?In post 363, Tenshii wrote:Line 2/3 - But he did answer your question. (This is shown in the quote below)
Eh...if he wants to marry to that logic I guess he can.
It seems insane as a concept though.
Okay, so let's break down his statement here - he claims many players have posted outside the RVS, so it's strange I don't have multiple reads.In post 363, Tenshii wrote:The last line - The actual answer. "So no, It doesn't make sense that at a point in the game where many players have posted several posts outside of RVS, you only have a read on one of them. And further, it doesn't logically follow that your town read is necessarily reading anyone else accurately." AKA he's saying that there's been so much information posted already, why do you only have a read on one person? Why wouldn't you have a scum read? And how do you even know that town read is scum reading anyone else accurately?
Let's look at all the players who expressed reads before I did outside RVS.
KTS in #43 *might* be serious in voting Troubador for RQS.
Troubador in #47 assuredly gives a town read that is outside RVS.
Troubador in #49 assuredly gives a scumread.
Thor in #55 gives a town read.
So, the "many" is...what, two?
The possible reads are...three?
Let's even add on a player and add on a read on the presumption you think RVS ended sooner than the rather generous end I gave it. I'm assuredly amongst the first five players to offer even a single serious read in the game. I would suggest I'm in the first two to three.
That means that if I'm scummy for only having one read at that point.
Then Karnos is also scummy - because he hasn't expressed any reads.
While we're at it, everyon other than Troubador only seems to have one read at that point - so all of them are as exactly as scummy as me if Karnos thinks I'm scummy for what he's calling out.
Who else did he call scummy for this tell?
Checking...coming up with...none....zero...zip...
Does that make sense to you?
Do you think this is honest logic on his part?
Or can you agree with me he is spewing gak - because he is absolutely spewing BS and you are lapping it up right now like it makes sense.
It does if I don't have a scum read - which I openly said at the time.In post 363, Tenshii wrote:Also even if he weren't teaching a lesson, his Line 2 makes sense to me. I don't get the logic at all on depending a townREAD's read on another person. You don't know for sure your READ is town so chooing to bandwagon that READ's read over your own personal read doesn't make sense.
I had a town read.
the town read had advanced a serious scum read.
I guess I could have just sat on an RVS and twaddled about - or I could, y'know, support a town read in RVS. I don't get the logic of doing anything other than what I did.
If you're voting Transcend for lack of logic (and I could see that)In post 373, PhantomCobalt wrote:Transcend why are you pushing me about something that won't happen?
And temporarily unvote? I think karnos is town, this unvote is permanent unless my read on him changes
VOTE: Transcend for bad logic
How can you be okay with Karnos, who is assuredly also lacking in logic? What makes the logic flaws better/worse between them?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Where did I claim I was 100%?In post 379, karnos wrote:No Thor. You are scummy because the absurd contrast of you being 100% certain someone is town, but claiming to have no idea about who might be scum at all.
If I was 50% does that change how much you're screeching about this?
You weren't presenting town or scum reads at that stage - are you scummy?In post 379, karnos wrote:Reads are relative. I'd understand if you said you had some faint scum reads and some faint town reads on page 3, and I'd be a bit surprised if you didn't have any strong reads by page 20. It would even make sense if you had no or only faint reads on page 5.
Or is it okay if one has theory super light reads that one doesn't describe them.
Almost the entire game was not posting or in RVS at that point still - I was one of the very first to advacne a read and move out of RVS.
You are scum towing a line.
If #1 is true I'd still be more likely to be voting scumIn post 379, karnos wrote:In contrast, having one 100% confirmed obv town read while not even having the faintest scum read on page 3 is way out of whack with everything that should be normal. At least, unless 1: you are scum, and you know your town read is town, or 2: you are scum, and your town read is your scum buddy. 1 makes a lot more sense, but either is possible.
2 actually makes sense with the way I play, so it's your most cogent suggestion yet - but is specifically tied with how I, and I alone play - but at least it's a theory that isn't immediately laughable.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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In the post you're quoting I claimed it as answering within your framework - so a lie is assuredly a word you could apply to that, albeit an openly stated one.In post 391, karnos wrote:Or are you now saying that you were putting out an explanation for your vote that was actually a lie?
I don't think you're actually this obtuse.
I've seen your town game - this isn't it.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I've got this one.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66795
No crazy lie logic arguments.
What have you got with a lie logic argument?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Heck, just link me to him taking a theoretical answer and taking it as gospel truth as town.
Any time.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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In post 397, Transcend wrote:to me he's reading nearly identical to the noob town he played in his first game on the site (which was with me). i'm not in the mood to delve into examples.
Has it ever happened before to you as town?In post 403, karnos wrote:First of all, I can only call out a scum for lying if I catch them lying. Doesn't mean it will happen every game.
I'll agree it doesn't happen every game - I'd love to see an example though, is this your magical first time ever?
Yeah, I only read through the multiple days and pages after I replaced - which included a lot of you.In post 403, karnos wrote:In other words, you didn't even read through the game when you replaced in. You don't know me as well as you think you do.
So, besides reading a lot of you as town, i have no comprehension of you as town.
Why, is there something in those pages I didn't read that would change my view?
Name it, and I'll check it out.
Or just keep empty discrediting me - y'know, as town does...
Name something you think I should have commented on that I haven't?In post 408, Luna Fox wrote:I think the argument between Thor and Roske has been overblown way out of proportion, i dont even see them commenting on anything else that's going on and it's starting to worry me.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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What sort of feedback would you have expected/liked for a value call of "this person isn't interacting as much as I'd like?"In post 411, Luna Fox wrote:
I'm townreadingy you, I'm also townreading Karnos.In post 410, Thor665 wrote:Name something you think I should have commented on that I haven't?
I pointed out someone who may be sitting on the sidelines watching a TvT and made an argument out of that.
But it completely went over your head.
I feel like you're so focused on your tunnel that you aren't paying attention to what other people are doing unless it's related to your debate with Karnos.
Functionally you made the same call on two slots you claim are town - but are suggesting this other slot is scum because he's also doing what you're saying two of your town reads are doing?
None of that makes sense, and it wasn't particularly interesting either.
There is zero issue with me focusing on a slot I am convinced is scum - that's actually good play.
I'm still talking to other people about other things, but if 80% of what I say is advancing a scumread...that's good.
In post 414, karnos wrote:My no & no answer is probably unclear. No this isn't the first time, and no I can't give an example.
Second time ever?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I haven't seen any contradiction.In post 423, Transcend wrote:Am i the only person who noted Rosske contradicted himself?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I currently lean town. If Karnos flips scum I would consider Io strong town. If Karnos flips town I would consider Io lean town.In post 434, Tenshii wrote:@Thor, what are your thoughts on Io? Do these change if Karnos flips town? Flips scum?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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semi v/la until late Saturday 23rd-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Town is fighting town too much.In post 482, Killthestory wrote:Town is constantly fighting town. This is getting stupid.
Townbloc: Luna, Transcend, Karnos, Kcda, Tenshii, Giga.
I shall make a townbloc of town who are not fighting town.
Not Io - that's all I've got.In post 496, Tenshii wrote:@ Thor, who's Karnos's partner?
Why, do you see any people who should be obviously ruled out or considered as more likely?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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List all the town fighting town?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I find you both beautiful - one of you should put Karnos on L-1.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I find her nullish - I don't have an issue with the highest volume poster having less content offered than the average - that is actually pretty normal in my opinion, especially since about 25% of her posts are just complaints about how other people are presenting thoughts. Same thing with Transcend - doesn't suggest alignment, suggests playstyle. Ignoring it all.In post 558, mhsmith0 wrote:@all: current thoughts on Luna? For the #1 volume poster she sure seems to be saying not very much interesting/helpful.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Extending semi-v/la through August 5th, will maintain as I have been, probably posting once a day, but might do occasional 24+ hour away spells.
That still makes me more active than some of you-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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What is the theory scum strategy in doing that - is his hope people don't notice? (too late) Don't question? (unlikely) Or accidentally derp hammer? (again, unlikely).In post 589, Tenshii wrote:
Hops on a bandwagon (Karnos) and justifies it with RVS. Eventually townreads (Karnos), his vote, but parks it anyway. Posted multiple times (aka multiple oppurtunities to unvote) without unvoting. Justifies it with not having a chance to reread through everything.In post 588, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:Tenshii, are you still scumreading Phantom? Walk me through your case if you are. I get the "well either we lose a VI or we get scum" but I'm really not seeing scum here.
Phantom, walk me through your scumread of Luna and me. Do you think we're scum together?
Town should be unvoting in this spot to decrease the chance of a townread getting lynched. I can't see any logical reason as to why town would act this way.
Iirc, any townread on him was justified with "He's acting so idiotic and/or scummy that he has to be town" which is garbage logic in and of itself. Which then leads to my logic of "Worst case scenario, lose VI. Best case scenario, flip scum." Getting rid of VI is better now than to keep VI into late game, especially when considering lylo.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I mean, I see evidence of sloppy play - can you translate it from sloppy to scummy?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Eh, it's a fine Day 1 lynch for what it is - but I think people just have to be honest about the value of it as a tell.
I think a valid argument could be made for Karnos having sloppy play as well, and at least there's a vague framework of scum motivation to attach to it.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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It might be reasonable, but it might not be - what I'm saying is that sloppy play...is NAI. I never sloppy play (or at least when I'm accussed of sloppy play, I massively disagree, and I've been accused as both alignments). But that's because my playstyle is non-sloppy - it's not like I get a scum PM and go 'awesome, time to play ridiculous!" and I don't think anyone else does either. Bad logic is a thing, just generic sloppy - that's playstyle.In post 622, Tenshii wrote:
Is what I said about him being scummy not reasonable? And do you think that what he did is towny? Assuming you're okay with his play, what actions would he have to do to convince you he's scum?In post 603, Thor665 wrote:I mean, I see evidence of sloppy play - can you translate it from sloppy to scummy?
I do not think what he did was towny.
I also don't think it was scummy.
I think it was sloppy. I said that already.
He would have to do actions that I could see scum wanting to do to advance their wincon.
I note that you didn't actually answer my question, was that intentional? If not - could you answer it now?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Welcome to half of the reads in the gameIn post 611, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
which is why it's an actually worthwhile lynch and i don't get why half of the town is reading karnos as town for no reason?In post 610, Thor665 wrote:vague framework of scum motivation to attach to it.
Parsing mutual accusations of lying is one of my absolute favorite scumhunting tools.In post 612, mhsmith0 wrote:Well I think the reason is that reading quote walls is boring, ditto parsing mutual accusations of lying. Plus there's I think a natural tendency to read "they're fighting" as "probably t/t".