Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER
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RLotus
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RLotus Mafia Scum
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yeahIn post 23, Duchess wrote:Lotus is that a random vote?-
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No and I presume yesIn post 66, Duchess wrote:Do you think Elements self-voting is alignment indicative in any way? Do you think Dunn's vote was random?
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RLotus Mafia Scum
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TownleanIn post 62, Green Crayons wrote:suss on Elements but not RTP?
Also town vibes from RTP, Duchess, and maybe Datisi-
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I don't like this post. His phrasing makes it seem like that is a read he is going to hold on to and I really don't like a scumread based primarily on some dumb WIFOM.In post 72, ItalianoVD wrote:So VP I’m not sure what you got or were trying to get out of the questions you asked me, but even if 58 is joking, I’m not taking a chance.
VOTE: VP Baltar-
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yeah you give me maybe town vibesIn post 156, Datisi wrote:
maybe?In post 138, RLotus wrote:Also town vibes from RTP, Duchess, and maybe Datisi-
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Townlean but less sure. I like the places you've been poking you feel townIn post 158, Datisi wrote:ok
what does maybe town mean (i.e. how is it different from town) and what's giving you those vibes-
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RLotus
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Yeah I think he's town tooIn post 309, Duchess wrote:I really like Andre's entrance and his way of looking at the game. The things he chooses to comment on don't feel the slightest bit agenda-driven.-
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In post 124, ItalianoVD wrote:
Well it sure felt like it. I can’t speak for what they actually and I doubt they’ll go into it, but I posted a couple of RVS style posts and neither of my partners had posted yet. I felt like he had the inside scoop. I did think it was awesome though.In post 110, VP Baltar wrote:
Unless you're saying elements had psychic powers, something clearly pinged themIn post 109, ItalianoVD wrote:
They had those reads on page 1 that game, before anything even started.In post 82, VP Baltar wrote:Turns out Italiano maybe just had a bad game rather than it saying anything about elements.
Nah, can’t say that I have. I’m not sure where to place them yet, but if I had to say, their posts and takes have seemed townie.In post 111, Green Crayons wrote:Have you played with Duchess before?
If you are looking for a scummy vote on the Duchess wagon this is it imo. His read of her kinda came from nowhere and that second makes it look like he was wanting to get in the middle of a TvT fight and stir shit up, rather than actually trying to evaluate the interaction.In post 169, ItalianoVD wrote:
That was a joke I mentioned to RTP, wasn't anything serious.In post 167, Duchess wrote:but if I recall correctly there was some discussion just before that time of Italiano possibly being an easy early push, and what I saw pinged me, so I wanted to nip it in the bud.
I gotta say I'm not at all comfortable being in the middle of this Duchess/Green Crayons thing, lol. Like yikes, I don't like what I say to be a basis to read someone else off when it wasn't my intention to do so. If this is theatre please choose something else to fight over and leave me out of it and if you're town then just drop it, it's not that serious.
@Duchess: I already said I didn't have an issue with Green's questioning. Your defense of me pings me more than anything especially this early in the game. And it all seems weird given that I was a FoS for you as posted in 90
VOTE: Duchess
Is there a reason you are so adamant about this?
And just to clarify, my Baltar vote was a reaction test vote, it wasn't really my solidified vote. That there wasn't more reaction to it, ehh I don't know how to feel about it just yet.-
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They haven't stood out as being either alignment to me yet.In post 312, Duchess wrote:Lotus, do you have a read on Elements?-
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I don't think you can really read Dunn for lurking this early, not accurately at least. I feel like from what I've seen of him that as the game goes you will be able to read his effort as he has more material.In post 291, VP Baltar wrote:Lunar, I'm not sure Datisi is scum here. You want to join me on the dunnstral wagon?
I'm fairly sure he is lurking scum. Dunn is super smart, and knows how to strategic lurk (source: the last time we were scum together). I almost pushed this earlier, but felt like it would have been unfair too early in the game, so I gave him a chance to give me a reads list/impressions of the game.
He didn't do that. He also has conveniently stayed out of really any point of action in this game. Reeks of lurking scum.
@andres - what are your thoughts on IVD?
This post does feel to come from good intentions to me though rather than scum agenda tho-
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What about Italiano changed for you?In post 318, Lunar Martian wrote:Town: Harumi, Andres, VP Baltar, Duchess
Weak Town: RTP, Datisi, RLotus
Null: Testarossa, Green Crayons, Elements, Dunnstral
On the Scum side of the spectrum: Italiano-
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Why do you think tvs is more likely than tvt? Does your read of GC go beyond the relation between him and Duchess?In post 415, ItalianoVD wrote:
I’ve reread the gameIn post 379, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:italiano who would you vote for if you had to vote somewhere?
Limpool {RLotus, Lunar, Green Crayons, Baltar}
Townleaning {RTP, Andres, Duchess??)
Everyone else is pretty null
So what I did irt to the Green/Duchess interaction is I read both sides as different alignments and Duchess was the most likely town between the two. In a t/s connection I couldn’t see Duchess as scum and Green as town. It could be a t/t connection, but after rereading the interaction multiple times, I feel like Duchess was more pure than Green was, so would town . It also isn’t that likely it’s a s/s bus connection on Day 1, so...
VOTE: Green Crayons
Although I’d be okay with anyone within my limpool.-
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I'm not satisfied with this whatsoever. It's not just that you're not calling anyone scum, but it's that you lack the scum hunting/town hunting effort that I see you have in the town games of yours that I've looked at. When you are town you poke and prod around, analyzing gameplay, coming to conclusions with reasoning. Even when you have gut reads you have some specific post to cite as to why. This isn't your town game.In post 445, ItalianoVD wrote:I have my reads the way I do because I do, just like everyone else has their reads.
Something just seems a bit off about you Baltar, I can’t pinpoint it. Interactions and posts, etc. I can say the same thing about Lotus and Lunar. Although Midwaybear has seemed pretty townie so far.
I really really don't like this post, even aside from his sudden/shallow progression from Duchess scum to GC scum. You say that you are okay with an elim on anyone from your lim pool, which ok that's not scummy in itself. But, it's as if you are already giving up on trying to solve people. There are so many alignments up in the air and you yourself don't have anything solid on anyone. This is such an awkward time to settle on shooting inside your poe.In post 415, ItalianoVD wrote:
I’ve reread the gameIn post 379, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:italiano who would you vote for if you had to vote somewhere?
Limpool {RLotus, Lunar, Green Crayons, Baltar}
Townleaning {RTP, Andres, Duchess??)
Everyone else is pretty null
So what I did irt to the Green/Duchess interaction is I read both sides as different alignments and Duchess was the most likely town between the two. In a t/s connection I couldn’t see Duchess as scum and Green as town. It could be a t/t connection, but after rereading the interaction multiple times, I feel like Duchess was more pure than Green was, so would town . It also isn’t that likely it’s a s/s bus connection on Day 1, so...
VOTE: Green Crayons
Although I’d be okay with anyone within my limpool.-
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Another thing. I find it strange how GC, Elements, and Italiano cooled off on Duchess seemingly simultaneously. I would get it if they had a reason to, like another wagon to jump to, or if Duchess had said something so obviously towny. To me, it would be quite unusual for town to be this coordinated. Typically, each town member have there own progression on there ideas and they shouldn't be lining up this easily. This seems to imply that there is someone being disingenuous among the three, going with the flow of town. I think there is scum inside of those three and I don't really think it's GC.-
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RLotus
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RTP has this utterly confident attitude like "of course I am town it would be absurd for you to question that". This is most obviously illustrated by their audacity when it comes to ignoring questions they don't feel like answering, laying these little "traps", and withholding information that they don't want to give out. This comes from a self assured town conviction, as if they don't give a shit if they do something scummy, they aren't going to be scumread because they are obviously town.
Also, they are very clearly trying to solve the game with their questioning and lines of reasoning. I'm confident that RTP is town.-
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What about their world view?In post 511, Andresvmb wrote:
Can you explain to me why you don’t think Elements is Scum here? I spent some time slowly re-reading the game, and for the life of me I can’t seem to agree with their worldview at all, and I think them putting me as Town was to appease me.In post 385, Datisi wrote:edit: ok, after writing this post but before submitting, i went to iso andres to see if he's talked about his elements vote, and he actually did, he saw their vote as the scummiest one on the duchess wagon. so that breaks my theory and makes me feel better on andres. false alarm, carry on with your day, everyone. /edit-
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He said himself that he isn't good at scum and gets caught easily, I think the defeatism makes perfect sense for him as scum here.In post 522, Andresvmb wrote:
It’s rare that I find Scum giving up D1. I’ve yet to see it on this forum. I don’t find that a “nail in the coffin” at all.In post 521, RLotus wrote:Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo-
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You said you found yourself agreeing with what RTP said about testa, but RTP said their read on her was based on meta. So what exactly do you find yourself agreeing with?In post 523, Andresvmb wrote:
I read all of their posts and thought they made sense. I mean it’s early right I don’t have that much confidence that one is right. But I wasn’t particularly pinged. If anything I’m finding pushes there a bit opportunistic, and maybe that’s informing my read too.In post 519, Dunnstral wrote:why testarossa town?-
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Nothing they've done really sticks out to me, nothing out of the ordinary. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a reason they are town, but they are kinda just null in my eyes.In post 525, Andresvmb wrote:
We’ll have to agree to disagree.In post 524, RLotus wrote:
He said himself that he isn't good at scum and gets caught easily, I think the defeatism makes perfect sense for him as scum here.In post 522, Andresvmb wrote:
It’s rare that I find Scum giving up D1. I’ve yet to see it on this forum. I don’t find that a “nail in the coffin” at all.In post 521, RLotus wrote:Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo
Talk to me about Elements. Because I’m seriously questioning anyone with a TR there. I don’t know - I’ve said this multiple times, I don’t know that I’m good enough to spot Scum D1 and be accurate. But I really want someone to tell me why I should TR there.-
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Tbf I'm pretty sure he said he changed his mind on Duchess before calling you town. Idk, you could be right. I don't see that as blatantly scummy.In post 529, Andresvmb wrote:
Really? Because I called them Scummy, put a vote down there, and haven’t been around much (though I’ve been trying to pay attention specifically to how certain slots are interacting with each other), and they called me Towny because others said so? And why would they like my take on GC/Duchess when it directly contradicts how they reacted to interactions there (by putting a vote down on Duchess). Does that make any sense to you at all?In post 528, RLotus wrote:
Nothing they've done really sticks out to me, nothing out of the ordinary. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a reason they are town, but they are kinda just null in my eyes.In post 525, Andresvmb wrote:
We’ll have to agree to disagree.In post 524, RLotus wrote:
He said himself that he isn't good at scum and gets caught easily, I think the defeatism makes perfect sense for him as scum here.In post 522, Andresvmb wrote:
It’s rare that I find Scum giving up D1. I’ve yet to see it on this forum. I don’t find that a “nail in the coffin” at all.In post 521, RLotus wrote:Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo
Talk to me about Elements. Because I’m seriously questioning anyone with a TR there. I don’t know - I’ve said this multiple times, I don’t know that I’m good enough to spot Scum D1 and be accurate. But I really want someone to tell me why I should TR there.-
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It seems like most of your scum reads are based on them having reads you disagree withIn post 531, Andresvmb wrote:Also 351 pinged me from Lunar. I don’t agree with their view on GC and I think this is easily a post Scum could make.-
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Thinking about it, this probably makes you pretty easy to pocket hahaIn post 535, Andresvmb wrote:
Yeah. It’s how I tend to go about D1’s. Anybody who seems to be pushing the game in a direction I can’t follow is usually on my shit list.In post 533, RLotus wrote:
It seems like most of your scum reads are based on them having reads you disagree withIn post 531, Andresvmb wrote:Also 351 pinged me from Lunar. I don’t agree with their view on GC and I think this is easily a post Scum could make.-
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RLotus
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Interestingly that contradicts what he said in this gameIn post 108, ItalianoVD wrote:
Uh uh. That’s not directly correlated. To me, I’m a bad scum player because I don’t like being scum and have a hard time lying and generally get caught in some way because of it.In post 81, Green Crayons wrote:so in your mind, VD, you're a bad scum player because you were meme quick-eliminated in RVS?-
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Yes I found three scum games from him and none of them really work for the scenario he is currently in. One game he got elimmed in rvs, one game he was down to final 3, and one game he was confirmed scum by the tracker. He didn't have the "bite back" that I see him have in his town games, but I wouldn't really expect him to given those scenarios. He also didn't have the defeatism that he has this game, but again I wouldn't expect him to.In post 556, Datisi wrote:In post 521, RLotus wrote:
Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo
have you checked any of his scumgames for that?-
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Such a lazy wagon, not interested personallyIn post 612, VP Baltar wrote:Since we are slowly grinding to a standstill here without much original line of thought, I propose we just run Dunn to L-1 and force a claim.-
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That's a fair interpretation. I see it as scum flailing. Admittedly, I am seeing red with Italiano, though it's not often I have this confidence on a scum read this early, so I really do think I'm right here. I'm willing to look like a fool if I'm wrong.In post 624, VP Baltar wrote:
But seriously, you don't think there is any way Italiano is town here? My gut still pings town there given he is just putting his foot in his mouth constantlyIn post 623, VP Baltar wrote:
ur mom is a lazy wagonIn post 617, RLotus wrote:
Such a lazy wagon, not interested personallyIn post 612, VP Baltar wrote:Since we are slowly grinding to a standstill here without much original line of thought, I propose we just run Dunn to L-1 and force a claim.
Another thing I'm noticing with Italiano is that he keeps saying things like "people are reading everything I say as scummy" and "people aren't giving me a chance", yet if I'm not mistaken I'm the only one that's really latching onto him. Most others show some kind of uncertainty about his alignment. It feels off to me, like his attitude isn't matching what is happening in the thread.
About Dunn, I find it hard to have a good read on him at this point. You call him scum for lurking even though he does it as town too, that's why I say it is lazy. I'd like to give him time to show his towniness personally. I know you said you did that in a previous game and got burned by him but yea.-
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Yes that's what I meantIn post 629, VP Baltar wrote:
I think he's confused. I was saying Dunn lurked as scum (to great effect actually) when we were scum together. People gave him a pass in that game, including for a lolhammer D1.In post 628, Dunnstral wrote:
What game was this that I 'burned' vp baltar?In post 626, RLotus wrote:I know you said you did that in a previous game and got burned by him but yea.
I'm going to accept it as truth that Dunn also lurks as town, but I do think he has sort of been a bit coy about actually engaging with this game.-
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NopeIn post 631, ItalianoVD wrote:
So you gonna change your name or your profile pic?In post 626, RLotus wrote:I'm willing to look like a fool if I'm wrong.-
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Unfortunately I only have one voteIn post 634, ItalianoVD wrote:What’s stopping you from eliminating me? If you’re that confident push it through.-
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Oh lol I thought you were trying to make a bet alsoIn post 645, ItalianoVD wrote:I didn’t do that, did I? Lotus said he’s willing to look like a fool and I offered that he change his name or profile pic into something foolish. If that’s what that was then my bad, wasn’t my intention.-
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RTP and Duchess townIn post 723, Battle Mage wrote:
hi mate, good to see ya! nice avi!In post 716, RLotus wrote:Hi BM
who is scum? and town?
Italiano is scum
nice avi yourself hahah-
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Yeah I mean my nulls haven’t done anything to warrant movement. Harumi and testa fell off the face of the earth, dunn and elements lurks as usual.
I will say i did waiver on my andre townlean, because reading testarossa town is absurd to me, but I liked his explanation on how he goes about day 1s, felt towny.
And yeah I’m pretty much fixated on Italiano for now-
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I don’t think he should have been able to deduce that from her like 3 postsIn post 762, Battle Mage wrote:i can confirm testarossa was town though, so that's something-
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It doesn't make a lot of sense for him to do this as town. Like, why doesn't he say yeah you're right about my meta but I'm town. He's trying to explain away why he hasn't been solvy and lacks his usual town fire, while also trying toIn post 764, Battle Mage wrote:
RLotus - can you explain Italiano posting this as scum?In post 681, Battle Mage wrote:
definitely feel the emotion here. happy to assume Italiano is locktown - I think Italiano-scum has more self-respect than to run this as a gambit.In post 454, ItalianoVD wrote:Re: 451 & 452
Well, you know, it might be better to vote me out then cause it's apparent I'm not gonna be of help to the town. I've been lazy man. All that stuff I do as town, I just didn't/don't feel like doing it this game, especially on Day 1. I don't know why, I just don't. Slots have been pinging me, but I just don't really feel like going in depth with it, hoping that gutreads would be enough. I know that's bad and not helpful, however, information can still be gleaned from my flip.
Another thing is I feel like everything I do and say is getting scumread and everything I answer is not good enough , and it feels like I'm just digging my grave deeper and deeper the more I post and interact. It's part of the game so it's cool, but it's also exhausting. If/when I do get to E1, I definitely won't hammer. I'm not gonna cutoff the discussion like that. And I'm not scum, I'm just bad townie this game.survivewith AtE (which I've noticed you tend to be susceptible to). No backbone that I normally see from him when he's town. He's just rolling over and dying.-
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Slightly for his questioning and gamesolvynessIn post 772, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:Do you townread GC btw -rllotus?-
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Most of the talk around him before you repped in has been things like, "I'm not really sure about him but I lean towards eliminating him"In post 773, Battle Mage wrote:
i mean most of the talk is about how he's town, so would you really expect a wagon to build regardless of his alignment?In post 770, RLotus wrote:The fact that the Italiano wagon hasn't built up despite the fact that it has been talked about ad nauseum might be an indicator that I'm on the right track. Alternatively, it could just be a product of the stalled gamestate.-
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Yeah I can it will be long windedIn post 771, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:
I think its a fact ur seeing red. Wanna walk through why you scumread them?In post 770, RLotus wrote:The fact that the Italiano wagon hasn't built up despite the fact that it has been talked about ad nauseum might be an indicator that I'm on the right track. Alternatively, it could just be a product of the stalled gamestate.
Being wrong is also a reason one might have a resisted wagon.-
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My point was why are scum so shy on voting him when many are making it seem like they'd be willing to push him over, if he is townIn post 777, Battle Mage wrote:
he had 3 votes on him though, which feels broadly commensurate with that level of suspicion.In post 775, RLotus wrote:
Most of the talk around him before you repped in has been things like, "I'm not really sure about him but I lean towards eliminating him"In post 773, Battle Mage wrote:
i mean most of the talk is about how he's town, so would you really expect a wagon to build regardless of his alignment?In post 770, RLotus wrote:The fact that the Italiano wagon hasn't built up despite the fact that it has been talked about ad nauseum might be an indicator that I'm on the right track. Alternatively, it could just be a product of the stalled gamestate.-
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I've really got no clue past ItalianoIn post 779, Battle Mage wrote:RLotus - a quicker ask - who is scum besides Italiano?-
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You really haven't. You've said things like my towniness will shine through but you've not pushed back on the pushes on you until nowIn post 828, ItalianoVD wrote:In post 766, RLotus wrote:
Like, why doesn't he say yeah you're right about my meta but I'm town.
My gosh, I've said I'm town so many times and in different ways and you still scumread me, so this is just nonsense.-
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Well shit you were the one throwing out a completely premature limpoolIn post 834, ItalianoVD wrote:
And you don't think that's a problem?In post 788, RLotus wrote:
I've really got no clue past ItalianoIn post 779, Battle Mage wrote:RLotus - a quicker ask - who is scum besides Italiano?-
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RLotus Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1010
- Joined: November 4, 2020
Well I based that on the way he was entertaining BM when BM was talking about me and him jumping on RTP just now. I think I recall him throwing out other names, like maybe looking for an elimIn post 837, RLotus wrote:Honestly I'm not feeling good about VP Baltar. It seems he is willing to jump onto any scumread thrown out there.-
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RLotus Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1010
- Joined: November 4, 2020
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RLotus Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1010
- Joined: November 4, 2020
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RLotus Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1010
- Joined: November 4, 2020
Having a difference in reads isn’t a good basis for reading someoneIn post 843, VP Baltar wrote:
How about just tell me why you think RTP is town when they are locktowning your only scum read?In post 841, RLotus wrote:Welp I was making a post to highlight what I mean but my power went out I will explain later-
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RLotus Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1010
- Joined: November 4, 2020
I totally disagree. At least, the way I try to read people is how they come to their reads and how they’re progressing the game. Day 1 is when town should have the most varied readsIn post 846, VP Baltar wrote:
It is a good reason to be suspicious of someone. Not saying you can't disagree, but on D1, the only info you have as a town person is your own alignment. If someone is the polar opposite of you, that should at least raise a question in your mind.In post 845, RLotus wrote:
Having a difference in reads isn’t a good basis for reading someoneIn post 843, VP Baltar wrote:
How about just tell me why you think RTP is town when they are locktowning your only scum read?In post 841, RLotus wrote:Welp I was making a post to highlight what I mean but my power went out I will explain later
I've already had this convo once with andres.-
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RLotus Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1010
- Joined: November 4, 2020
DevastatingIn post 851, VP Baltar wrote:jk, I don't feel confident enough to call the scum team, but I do think an old man just meme'd you, and that must hurt.-
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RLotus Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1010
- Joined: November 4, 2020
What I'm noticing with VPB is that he seems to be sitting by and looking for mis elims where he can get them, whilst being non committal to his reads (except Dunn), as if to avoid looking bad when they flip town. At first it appeared like he was scum hunting, but his recent interactions with BM made his intentions more apparent.
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