Mini 1400(!): Bubble Tape Mafia - It's Over!

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm officially going to sheep Thor this game.

stupid

[Jake from State Farm]

uh.. Khakis

[Jake from State Farm]

@AP: Vote d3x? I don't see anything suspicious about him. In fact it looks like he's trying to scumhunt, so town points for him.

Trying to scumhunt =/= scumhunting.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ Thor - based on my skimming, no I don't feel he is. It looks like he's trying to appear busy, but nothing of value is coming from his posts.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ Thor - based on my skimming, no I don't feel he is. It looks like he's trying to appear busy, but nothing of value is coming from his posts.

Why are you skimming as opposed to reading when making those sorts of calls?
Do you stand by your skim reads? I mean, why even tell me it's a skim read?

Cause when I'm busy and not on a PC I skim read, don't act like this is news to you all of a sudden cause in [redacted] we had a very similar conversation about me and my skimming.

All I did was warn whoever it was that you can't give town points to someone who "appears" to be scumhunting. He didn't even seem to be confident enough to say he was actually doing it. I pointed it out I was skimming because I felt its relevant to the question you asked me. I haven't say down and fully read the game yet so I couldn't say 100% if he was actually scum hunting or not.

There is so much I want to say to you but can't so I'm ignoring your reads and urge everyone else to. You can't read people for shit. That's why I called zipperhead or whatever an idiot. Can't really say much more on that.

If anyone wants to do a thorn lynch, lmk. 50% chance he's scum, 50% chance we get rid if a player detrimental to town. Win/win IMO.

The reason I say that is you refuse to consider anyone could be right, even when you are wrong you still think you are right. You want to always lead and never let other people who are actually making sense lead.

& pidgeon - seriously, get off my jock. Idk if you are Town or scum, but i've never been buddied this hard in my life.

I plan on re-reading later, it's how I play

[Jake from State Farm]

OK, something I don't get:

Sheeping: mentioned posts 29 (by zipper), 78 (AngryPidgeon), 141 (AngryPidgeon).
Sheeping being stupid: posts 52 (Jake from State Farm), 57 (MaverickMaestro).

Either sheeping is good, or it is bad. I'd assume that anyone who says something like "do what I do because I'm doing it" should not automatically be believed. Is that not what sheeping is? As soon as someone mentions sheep, does it somehow become a positive thing?

@Zipper or AP, are JFSF, MM wrong?
@JFSF, MM: are Zipper, AP wrong?

sheeping thor is ALWAYS wrong.

[Jake from State Farm]

@d3x: While my vote on kush is clearly a PL move, it's also a pressure move. Let's see what his reaction is.

Not sure what to make of this Thor/AP exchange.

Sheeping is not always bad. Depends on the situation. Cop comes to mind.

Is that anyway similar to the sheeping being done here? No

Who do you think is scummier, AP or Thor? And why?

If they are both null, why are you bringing it up?

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't think we have played together, which is why I find it odd you claim I'm town after 1 post and why you asked me about a game you never played in.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't think we have played together,

which is why

I find it odd you claim I'm town after 1 post and why you asked me about a game you never played in.

Would us having played together made me calling you town after posting one word less odd somehow?

Yes

[Jake from State Farm]

Because...? A one word post is totally meaningful meta-wise? : /

if we had meta, yes I would be less suspicious. I'd still be suspicious.

and FWIW Im still somewhat convinced I have played with you.

unless you have another account, I have never played with you.

[Jake from State Farm]

its. Never a good idea to sheep Thor

I fixed that for you, you misspelled the word never.

[Jake from State Farm]

I am surprised you think it's such a good idea zipper.

newbie 1105 - he was basically wrong day 1 on Tvellaot, calling him probably town and only hammered him out of necessity, not want.
he was convinced Finner was scum but was actually town and the only reason why you lynched the other scum was cop claim and btw, Thor thought the final scum was town also. So he was 0 for 2 in that game.

Newbie 991 - Scum won that game, Thor got modkilled for a mod error was about to be lynched, he thought you were scum and he didn't have strong scum reads on who scum actually was.

Those 2 games alone are reasons why you should NOT sheep Thor.

[Jake from State Farm]

^ those were the 2 games zipper played with thor that i could find.

[Jake from State Farm]

if we had meta, yes I would be less suspicious. I'd still be suspicious.

Can you clarify this for me? You'll understand if Im a little leery of this opinion. Although I did just reread our backandforth and I think I see where you are coming from but, eh.

Why didn't you comment on me bringing up Disney Villains until much later (too support your stance that Im buddying you?). Did my inquiry about Disney villains look like buddying?

if we had meta, you would know my play style better, i'd still be suspicious because like you said you can't determine alignment off one post.

tbh, I didn't see your comment about Disney until later when I actually started to re-read. I miss quite a bit when I skim on my phone and often times will sit down and re-read with clarity. I didn't answer it because i didn't deem it worthy of a response, especially since (unless you have an alt that I don't know of) you were not in that game. Your question isn't what I considered buddying, your question was as I said, Odd.

the buddying I was referring to would be the constant declarations that you think i am town, more so the defending of me when others say they don't think i am town.

Playing under this account I have been called town quite a few times by people and it's something I'm just not used to.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ Thor - I have played 1 game with you, it's ongoing so i can't comment on it.

[Jake from State Farm]

because i'm not an idiot. I can look through your games and see you aren't very great at leading town on scum lynches day 1. SO anyone who says "Sheep thor because he is thor" is an idiot.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake - How many people are great at that? I'd be willing to bet my success rate for Day 1 lynches is better than average. I mean, seriously, Ooooh, Thor isn't right all the time on Day 1...shock.

U mad bro?

Why does my opinion bother you so much? Telling people to rely on their own reads and not sheep is good play, yet you get so offended. As if your play THIS game has been something spectacular. It hasn't. Your votes aren't very good neither is the reasoning behind them.

[Jake from State Farm]

I offended you? Is this elementary school? Do we need to sit in a circle holding hands talking about feelings?

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. If you get offended because somebody doesn't like your playstyle go talk to a therapist.

This conversation is pointless.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, you do see what Thor is doing right?

He's finding yet another excuse not to scumhunt?

[Jake from State Farm]

I offended you? Is this elementary school? Do we need to sit in a circle holding hands talking about feelings?

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. If you get offended because somebody doesn't like your playstyle go talk to a therapist.

This conversation is pointless.

Although I will go back and read a lot of AP/Thor exchange, and look for a deeper understanding of this game in general, the word "pointless" does seem to cover the AP/Thor exchange reasonably well, to my current level of understanding... Not sure there are any nuggets to mine there... time will tell.

I was referring to the entire conversation revolving around my opinion of Thor

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah, reading Dave's posts, I could see him being scum. I really need to sit down and do my first re-read. First things first I need to remember who the fuck I'm voting for again.

Mental note, don't play 2 games at the same time

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: Thor

[Jake from State Farm]

Opinions on the counter to what?

[Jake from State Farm]

Newbie 991 - Scum won that game, Thor got modkilled for a mod error was about to be lynched, he thought you were scum and he didn't have strong scum reads on who scum actually was.

Also, could you explain this.
I went back and looked.
My second top scumspect was scum.
My third top scumspect was the other scum.
My first was town.

I'd also called four town players town accurately.

Where'd you get your info on my suspicions?

Also, though I agree my reads were off in 1015...that is also a game showing me *actively taking in other opinions and running with them because I accepted that I was wrong'
So...?

I See my problem in this one, I did not realize Sundy was anton. you were much more suspicious of anton but your suspicion on sundy wasn't as strong.

post 270 you declare Travis (null with town readings). 279 you say you are conflicted but you would settle on a lynch (it doesn't sound like you have a strong read on him), post 311 sort of looks like you don't think he is scum because you are asking someone to make a case on him. A bunch of other posts you make trying to get people to explain their votes on travis, post 345 you speak out against a travis wagon.

so in reality you really only are correct on 1 scum, you can't claim credit for being right on travis since you were essentially being lynched for defending him.

so yeah, my point is still mostly valid, but even if you were able to prove me wrong, I would not change my opinion of you because like I said it's based on your body of work.

[Jake from State Farm]

because like I said it's based on your body of work.

Like which?

not answering anymore questions or dragging out this conversation any longer.

[Jake from State Farm]

:head nod:

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake/Thor/Dave: Read on DoubleJD?

would have to re-read. Since I am not really into this game atm, it may be another day or so. At this point my vote isn't changing off Thor so the rest of day 1 I will probably be useless.

[Jake from State Farm]

Howdy, I've been paying attention to this game and will be posting some thoughts on those I have thoughts about later on tonight sometime. On phone now though. Note though, I'm hardly surprised to see AP and Thor both voting the same person. I certainly hope the back and forth epeen contest is over as it made the game so far really muddy.

this is a scum post if I ever saw one.

[Jake from State Farm]

Why?

because I say so.

[Jake from State Farm]

Why did it twinge your gut so heavily?

because it did. I don't need to explain myself to scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

JfSF: null read on Jake. Would like to know how my introduction to this game post is "a scum post if I ever saw one". On that note, if you really think that, where is your vote on me? If you don't really think that, are you waiting for someone to agree with you to start a new wagon off your scum-buddy Dave?

it's a scum post because it's something I don't expect a townie to say when replacing into the game. It's rubs me wrong and I don't feel it comes from someone who is town.

ktx - I am not voting you. I am not trying to de-rail a dave wagon nor am I trying to start a new one. Why would you assume I am doing that?


p.edit - I am already voting scum so why would I change my vote to you for making a scummy post?

[Jake from State Farm]

Thor has a history of arguing with people about stupid shit all the time. That is why I said earlier regardless of his alignment his lynch is good for town. Luckily for everyone he is actually scum in this game so when we lynch him finally everyone will be better off.

[Jake from State Farm]

Thor has a history of arguing with people about stupid shit all the time. That is why I said earlier regardless of his alignment his lynch is good for town. Luckily for everyone he is actually scum in this game so when we lynch him finally everyone will be better off.

But he has a best mafia player award?

a best player award for his playing or are you referring to his IC award? his IC award means he does a good job at teaching new players the ins and outs of mafia, it doesn't mean he is a good player.

If he won a good player award also, that's good for him.

That doesn't change my opinion of him no matter how unpopular it may be.

[Jake from State Farm]

just cause I was curious Thor has the following.

2012 -
most cunning manipulator nomination (this means he plays good as scum, which he does, which is a reason to pressure him early because if he is scum and makes it late in the game he is going to win)
Best IC nomination

2011 -

Best IC
Funniest player
Best performance in a losing cause (nominated but nobody else supported the nomination. That's a very telling sign because that means nobody else agreed)

2010 -
Best IC

2009 -
nothing.


So in reality he hasn't actually won an award for his good play. Next time I suggest you do your research like I have.

2011 -

[Jake from State Farm]

I have not done the research on AP and his previous games probably because I have never even heard of him before this game. I even checked my main account to see if we have ever played over the years and we never have. Thor on the other hand I have played with under both accounts so I have a better understanding of him.

as for why I think Thor is scum

Post 6 - is a horrible post, it looks like he is trying to hard to appear town by ending RVS, because lately the thing to do is end rvs early and get the real discussion going.
Post 30 - his vote on you was equally bad and reeks of opportunstic scum.
post 53 - while not concrete scum, his reasoning why he voted MM doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.
post 72 - because instead of asking me why I called zipper stupid, he goes off and tries to find scum intent in the post when a simple answer would have sufficed. There is still another reason why I made the post the way I did but I am not really going into it now.


I am sure there are more stuff mixed in his iso but I am on my phone and my eyes are starting to strain.

[Jake from State Farm]

a simple question to me would have sufficed*

[Jake from State Farm]

I already said sheeping you is dumb, so why would I sheep you now?

Once I do my re-read I will see if my early leaning read still stands but until I get the time to read, I'm not changing my vote.

[Jake from State Farm]

ok I have read Dave's posts but before I say anymore I have 3 questions.

1. Why did you decide to look up confirmation delays on the wiki, take me through your thought process.
2. can you link me to the page where you found it and also explain to the best of your ability how you found that page.
3. Why did you choose the phrase "I don't self-vote" over "I am not scum"

Take your time, I'll be here all day.

[Jake from State Farm]

nobody asked for your input. go away

[Jake from State Farm]

MM--He said he likes to be active but his recent activity is 1 liners and not many at that. Really weak, scared play so far. You will see if you ISO him.

I've been at work, I'm tired. Sue me.

Will be reading in just a few ticks, busy at the moment.

besides aren't you supposedly in the process of providing something useful? wouldn't that be better than answering questions not directed at you?

MM could be scum you guys

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake - I can answer those quickly:

This is my third game, my first two were newbies a few years ago. Since I'm a bit rusty, I decided to learn as much as I can from the wiki before the game. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... mmon_Tells was one page I read. An article caught my eye: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... sane_Tells. Here is a tell about confirmation. Its not considered particularly reliable, but was a better basis for voting IMO than purely random. That, along with MM's first post not actually appearing to scum hunt, was my basis for voting which you can see in my first post.

Another tell (which has been alluded to in this thread) is claiming to be town. Some people call it a scum tell. Others don't. All I can do is show you a link to my second game where an exchange with Sensfan put me off claiming to be town unless I can prove I'm town to everyone. Here it is: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p1851799. In confirmation there was a list of 13 names, 9 of which has * by them (confirmed). For accuracy sake, I included myself in the list of 4 unconfirmed (without *) since that was what my screenshot showed. But of course I wouldn't vote for myself. I chose "I don't self-vote" over "I'm not scum" since the second is claiming to be town, and the first is just common sense for anyone.

hmm...

why would you use un-reliable data and pass it off as reliable?

to me it looks like you are trying justify your bandwagon vote with reasons other than sheeping and I have actually seen scum do that before.

I will wait for your response before I decide on your alignment

[Jake from State Farm]

god, it's almost like Dave is too scummy to be scum.
my brain hurts.

p.edit - your mom gives me plenty of hugs now though.

[Jake from State Farm]

You have never heard of jonin?

P. edit - well only an idiot would use unreliable data for a legitimate vote so...

[Jake from State Farm]

The jonin question was to Cyber but that's for making my day with your response. I'm lol'ing right now.

P. edit - am I calling him an idiot? Yes.

[Jake from State Farm]

nobody asked for your input. go away

Most overtly anti town thing I've seen all game.
Does it get you off to act like an asshole?
I can't understand why you wouldnt want to see mms input on dave

I am asking Dave to answer my questions, you don't see the problem with other people answering them before Dave could? I certainly do.

[Jake from State Farm]

P. edit - am I calling him an idiot? Yes.

Are you not calling him scummy then?
I'll withdraw my point if you were just strutting.

actually this is what i am saying

god, it's almost like Dave is too scummy to be scum.

when I exclude that first post, the rest of his posts look genuine town. Even the act of looking at the wiki for advice looks genuine. My biggest hang up is the fact he didn't say he wasn't scum and the fact that he admits the info was un-reliable but he used it anyway.

In the end he just looks like bad town because all of his other posts seem genuinely town motivated.

[Jake from State Farm]

Is using unreliable info in RVS really a tell?

Never said it was a tell but it's a little scummy. If he has voted someone else besides MM it probably wouldn't have stuck out bu having seen scum recently try to justify a vote on a rvs wagon it's fresher in my mind.

[Jake from State Farm]

Scummy doesn't automatically mean its a tell

LolU

[Jake from State Farm]

never really thought about how to actually define it.

A tell is something that any reasonable townie would not do.

lying, backpedaling, lurking, those are examples of a scumtell.

[Jake from State Farm]

give me an example of what you mean by wifom concepts.

I personally don't think a reasonable townie would do that which is why I was bothered by Dave doing it, but his posts after that show genuine intent in trying to find scum. His motivation seems to be in the right place.

Since you mention town lurking,

lurking is a HUGE tell for me. If I was more into this game I would probably be analyzing the low posters and trying to figure out which one of them were more likely scummy. It's the apathy this site has towards lurking that allows scum to get away with it, but my mind is elsewhere right now so i don't have the time to do it.

If you see a player lurking you should automatically be suspicious of that slot. If you see an experienced player lurking I would lynch the bitch without hesitation.

Even if a townie is a PR, there is no excuse for lurking and I would even walk that tight rope and say it borders on not playing to your wincon because you aren't in here trying to find scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

give me an example of what you mean by wifom concepts.

No reasonable town would lurk - therefore it is a scumtell.
Many town lurk all over.
Is it still a scumtell?

yes

[Jake from State Farm]

While we are at it, what is your definition of a scum tell thorn?

[Jake from State Farm]

Thor please explain the purpose of this line of questioning. It looks like a waste of space to me. The difference between scumtell and scummy is not a worth while investigation.

You're saying you fully understood how Jake thinks when he says something that is scummy is not a scumtell?
I didn't.

Here's the real question:
@Jake why did you find the MM rvs stuff scummy? The only reason you gave was that it was fresh in your mind that a scum did it. You don't seem dumb enough to think something is scummy just because you remember a scum doing it last game.

Well I guess I am dumb enough because that is exactly why it stuck out to me.

unvote

hang tight guys, I did some re-reading and I am going to concede I may be wrong on my town read of Dave. I have to leave work right now so i can't finish typing the post I am working on, but I will get it up later tonight as well as possibly vote dave.

[Jake from State Farm]

Dave, real quick, who's your top 2 scum reads.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm in a rush cause it's relevant to the post I'm working on. You don't have 2 scum reads at this point? Hell I havent read and can name 2 people I'm suspicious of.

[Jake from State Farm]

Awful lot of words just to say you don't have any reads atm

[Jake from State Farm]

OK so going back to where I left off earlier with the question about me using something from a game recently where scum did something and how it applies here.


In the game where scum got lynched, the key that set some people off was the fact that a RVS wagon was forming and instead of using a random reason he tried to justify his vote to join the wagon. When questioned about it he eventually cracked and he was lynched. YAY scum lynch day 1 is awesome.


So this game we have 2 people starting a mini wagon (sure 2 votes can be a mini wagon) and instead of just joining the wagon for some random reason (or no reason at all) he felt the need to justify his vote with an actual reason. He admits he is joining a wagon when he says

"Better join the wagon then"

He is a newish player if you look at his topic list he has only played in 2 games and they were newbie games AND he was town in both of them.

IN MY OPINION:

N00bscum would be afraid of the backlash from wagoning someone, especially early on. Since he isn't experienced he wouldn't know that RVS wagons are common on MS. Not knowing this informagtion, they are often more likely to try and justify their vote so they can point back to it later and say "SEE, I had a good reason for it" and he can point to these votes to try and paint them as scum.

You can see he believes this based on this little number from post 313.

Also, if someone joins a wagon, surely its better that they have any reason (reliable or otherwise) rather than sheeping someone else?

But wait there is more.

His very first game on site he was told to go to the wiki and learn about RVS so unless he chose to ignore this request (unlikely since he was town and he was brand new to the site) or he forgot somehow (possible but unlikely) SO why would he try and paint an RVS vote as scummy?

@MM: I have to start somewhere. Its better than wasting time on "all your base belong to me". What are you doing that's scum hunting? Nothing. Vote stands.

Now another thing that bugs me is why did he choose to research and mention Safety's posts and mention them in the thread but not look at anyone else?

Had he done that he would have seen Leon had not had a single post on this site since Novermber 23rd (before he posts in this game)
had he done that he would have seen MM had not posted on site since November 26th (before he posts in this game)
HELL, he hadn't even posted on site since November 29th (until he votes in this game)

No posts on site in over a week to means that the player isn't very active on site so why would he not naturally assume that was the reason and instead leap to assume they didn't confirm because of some obscure tell, one that I have never heard of ever in my life

but wait there is more.

later he says he is keeping his vote on MM because

As far as I can see you are the second on the wagon, and the wiki says that scum are often second on the wagon. My vote stands.

If that was a legitimate tell, why would he not immediately call Thor out on page 1 for placing the 2nd vote on MM? or later because he is the 2nd person on his own wagon but as far as i can see he has yet to call Thor out for that one either.

Given that I ask him who his top scum reads are right now and he doesn't even mention MM who he was pretty suspicious of because of the wiki tells. Why does he not mention Thor who was also guilty of placing the 2nd vote on someone? Why does he not mention DoubleJD who he is voting for right now.

[Jake from State Farm]

his first game he used the dice roller to place his first vote.

his 2nd game his vote was because "for being a replacement, since possibly Lord Baltheir did not want to play as scum" (the funny thing is that slot was ACTUALLY scum lol)

in his 2nd game he certainly seems to know about RVS because he says this

in random voting stage its normal to choose someone to vote for. But asking questions, answering questions and stating opinions are also very helpful for the town, since the information will be available for the rest of the game.

he also says this

If you're not posting, then you need to do so, so we can have a good game and locate the scum. Not posting looks shady.

in that 2nd game there is definitely a since of confidence that I detect, I don't detect that same sort of confidence this game. Additionally he was definitely more active/agressive in that game.

sure it was a long time ago but if you read his 2nd game and compare it to this one, there is no way this is the same person with the same alignment.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah, let's lynch Dave.

OK. Suppose that was to happen. Is it normal to want a roleclaim first?

yes you will be asked to role claim at some point, usually when someone gives intent to hammer.

Since we have plenty of time left, I am fine waiting for replacements but I also will go ahead and imply that I have an intent to hammer.

I don't want to end the day yet because the new people's thoughts and reactions could be useful

[Jake from State Farm]

But if there is no counterclaim - surely my claim holds water then.

Did you really just say this?

That's an admission of guilt if I ever saw one. The odds that a cop is in this setup anyway is slim, not many normal games have them and when they do they usually have a modifier attached.

No self respecting cop would ever counter on day 1.

That being said, I have a no lynching of a claimed PRs on day 1. Surely we can give him a stay of execution for 1 day.

[Jake from State Farm]

not on this account

[Jake from State Farm]

But if this setup has max 1 cop, any other cop should claim now. Then take your pick of who to lynch day 1 / 2, and you will have a scum for sure. I think we used this technique in my 2nd Newbie game.

if you were REALLY a cop, why would you ask someone to CC you? if you are legit there would be no CC nor would there be a need to ask for one.

[Jake from State Farm]

in my 2nd newbie game it was a day 3 cop claim with 5 people left. we'd lynched mafia roleblocker and doctor was NK'd, and in that setup (F11 I think) that meant there HAD to be a cop. i started day 3 asking for the cop. he duly claimed and was believed, since in that setup there could only be 1. hence in that scenario CC was the right thing to ask for, to narrow down from 5 people to only 2, with 2 lynches.

sure its wrong in this scenario, but I'm just throwing stuff out there, I can't think of every pro and con, i'm hoping other people can help out. but if its not even a valid subject for discussion, thats OK too.

that's exactly right, it's wrong in THIS scenario for multiple reasons.

1. if you were telling the truth who would CC you? Scum? No they wouldn't
2. another cop? - highly unlikely
3. a townie? sorry this isn't epic mafia

[Jake from State Farm]

personally i like my policy so I will stick with it.


Dave, i was looking at your paraphrase of your role pm, your role PM says you are aligned with the town is that pretty close to how it is worded in your role pm, is it worded differently, or did you just add that in there?

[Jake from State Farm]

Thor

[Jake from State Farm]

@jake If you like your policy then who do you want to lynch?

Thor

yeah you can't quote, wasn't trying to get you to do that just was trying to see if you added those for emphasis or if you changed the order around

[Jake from State Farm]

lol why did I quote me saying thor?

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

vote: thor

[Jake from State Farm]

VOTE: Jake from State farm

Your stance on "Ya Dave is scum, but lets not lynch him today" whilst not actively trying to rally support for a wagon you did care about is odd.

And accusing me of buddying you after one post really didn't make sense, context and all given.

I'm not going to apologize for having a "no lynch PR on day 1" policy. If this makes you suspect me, so be it.

as for not pushing an alternative lynch, did I have time? Did anyone have time? I see no reason why that lynch couldn't have waited until all replacements were in. I even say so in post 407.

as for your accusation that I accused you of buddying after 1 post, would you like to retract that accusation before I proved you lied or are you going to stick with that?

I will give you 1 post to retract or I will prove you are lying.

It's been a long day, I will read all of these other pages sometime tomorrow.

Night

[Jake from State Farm]

I've been off the site for a few years... explain to me how that Hammer was proTown, plz.

Also, welcome replacements {-1}

Unfortunately the hammer is null, while I don't see any rational townie hammering like that, people on mafiascum don't act rationally most of the time.

I've been off the site for a few years... explain to me how that Hammer was proTown, plz.

Explain how it was pro-scum?

You are even worse of a player than I thought. I am not saying the hammer confirms qwints as scum but if you can't figure out how that hammer would have been a benefit to scum you need to seriously reconsider playing this game.

proTown

Well it wasn't, and I know I was calling for the hammer. It was a town-tell though, regardless.

Its unlikely that scum-qwints hammers a claimed town cop in his first post of the game. Its just a really bold move. And no offense to qwints, but I dont think hes bold enough to do tht as scum. Unless he had been watching the game and thinking to himself that Dave was obvscum all Day and then replaced in, sw the role PM, and said to himself "eh, I would have voted him as town anyways".

Still, I think the hammer is more likely from town than not.

p-edit: mmm. So presently Im willing to vote Jake/Thor/Kthxbye. I'd like to see Jake pressure.

I think you make a good point here, and I'm fine with pressure, not going to bother me any.

VOTE: jake

him staying off. lynch looks a lot like scum trying .to buy town pants

first, it's town points not pants. second, how is that working out for me? I'm just cashing in those town points now aren't I?

trust me, if I was scum trying to gain town points that isn't the way I would go about it.

[Jake from State Farm]

go back and iso ap and jake, especially Jake... and then tell me it doesn't. make. sense

humor me, why don't you point out the posts instead of telling people to iso me. I'd love you to explain how my posts link me to those 2.

[Jake from State Farm]

d3x is definitely on to something with his post 526. I think now is a good time for me to actually read the entire game, going to do that over the next couple of days. But for now I want to know one thing.

Kush - can you give me your read on thorn please. Do you think he is town or scum and why.

Thanks

[Jake from State Farm]

I made a case on you d1, why are you skimming? You told me once that town shouldn't skim...

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake - link the case?

don't be lazy, I'm not your bitch.

And those in glass houses really should not be throwing stones...

@Dave - It was a joke, if you'd been reading the AP/Thor stuff it would make sense. Basically I'm voting you off gut.

I'll admit I have no real case

, I could go and grab out a couple of comments you said and then say I 'feel' they're scummy - but you couldn't debate me about them in a functional way at this stage. Move on.

[Jake from State Farm]

^ that was a quote from Thor btw, so i'd love to hear why he needs me to make a case on him when he can't be bothered to make one on the people he votes for.

[Jake from State Farm]

So you're agreeing that when you said you'd made a case that you were lying?
Is that where we're at?

are you blind or something? kthx even confirmed I made a case (although he added in the words "in a way") So if I know I posted it and HE saw it and I am pretty sure other people saw it, Why can't you be bothered to go look for it?

I'm not your bitch. If you want to claim I never made a case on you without taking the time to go look for yourself, That's perfectly fine with me. Everyone else who has actually read the thread will just laugh at you and call you names (like Pinocchio)

[Jake from State Farm]

I have not done the research on AP and his previous games probably because I have never even heard of him before this game. I even checked my main account to see if we have ever played over the years and we never have. Thor on the other hand I have played with under both accounts so I have a better understanding of him.

as for why I think Thor is scum

Post 6 - is a horrible post, it looks like he is trying to hard to appear town by ending RVS, because lately the thing to do is end rvs early and get the real discussion going.
Post 30 - his vote on you was equally bad and reeks of opportunstic scum.
post 53 - while not concrete scum, his reasoning why he voted MM doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.
post 72 - because instead of asking me why I called zipper stupid, he goes off and tries to find scum intent in the post when a simple answer would have sufficed. There is still another reason why I made the post the way I did but I am not really going into it now.


I am sure there are more stuff mixed in his iso but I am on my phone and my eyes are starting to strain.

Confirm vote: Thorn

kindly piss off now and die scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, my post was in reference to Thor's question to me about kush...

oh well obviously it looked like you were talking about me, my bad

[Jake from State Farm]

you calling me out for doing sonething you are guilty of is kind of a scumtell. Hopefully others will see that and vote you.

[Jake from State Farm]

So please explain how it's pro town to not make cases but call out others for the same thing. I'd love to hear you defend yourself.

[Jake from State Farm]

So please explain how it's pro town to not make cases but call out others for the same thing. I'd love to hear you defend yourself.

Saying 'gut' is presenting a case.

I would dare say it's better and more honest then acting like a case from 400 posts ago is still the entirety of your point.

post 325 definitely seems to imply you think Gut and Case are 2 different things.

also Gut is a reason for a vote and not a case for it. A case would be the things that support your gut read (aka links to posts where he says something you feel is scummy)

I was wondering why if you felt so surely on your gut that Dave was scum, why didn't you really address him very much day 1?

After your vote on him, you only made 2 posts directly interacting with him and one of them is post 325 where you say you don't have a case against him.

[Jake from State Farm]

Mastin, can you tell me how AP is town when I have caught him in a boldface lie?

Is lying to paint someone scummy a town tell somehow?

[Jake from State Farm]

-

Everyone: What was your opinion on that slot going into night?
What was the town's overall opinion of that slot?

1. I had no read on him
2. I don't think he stood out one way or the other, the only thing I remember was Dave voting for him

[Jake from State Farm]

After your vote on him, you only made 2 posts directly interacting with him and one of them is post 325 where you say you don't have a case against him.

If I felt so sure of my gut I'm not sure why I was supposed to address him much.

But you're right, I didn't.
[/quote]

so you expect me to believe, it's pro town to camp a vote on a growing wagon, not provide any additional input, and push it along all while ignoring just about everything being said in regards to the person being run up?

See, that is something Scum would do and something town should NOT do

vote stays.

p.edit - I had no opinion of your slot, can't speak for the entire town as I don't think your slot was mention much either.

[Jake from State Farm]

^ dat messed up quote tag damn it

[Jake from State Farm]

if by timeline you mean how you keep popping in as the wagon gets larger and urge more people to vote him? Yeah I noticed and that's a scumtell too

1. you vote him and are 2nd on wagon
2. popping in shortly after he is put at L-3 to tell me to vote Dave
3. you showing up after he is at L-1 saying "yeah let's lynch dave"

All of your votes have had a stench of OMGUS (vote on AP) or opportunism (vote on Kush) with exception of your very first vote which just looked like you trying to earn some town cred. There is nothing in your iso that would suggest you have done anything that meets the definition of proper town play.

[Jake from State Farm]

ebwop - should say "all of your other votes"

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, address me.

I've answered your questions, unless I missed something

[Jake from State Farm]

if by timeline you mean how you keep popping in as the wagon gets larger and urge more people to vote him? Yeah I noticed and that's a scumtell too

1. you vote him and are 2nd on wagon
2. popping in shortly after he is put at L-3 to tell me to vote Dave
3. you showing up after he is at L-1 saying "yeah let's lynch dave"

Okay, so now that you agree I never had a chance to react to the claim - which information about him should I have addressed?

there were plenty of things to comment on, that is how discussions take place. People say things, others say other things. You could have chimed in on any of the points being made against him or any of the points he was making to defend himself. Instead you put it in cruise control.

I do find it odd you mention the fact you were not around to react to the claim, That wasn't even one of the points I was bringing up about you. Seems out of place imo

@ Mantis - I had no strong town reads day 1, The closest I had would probably be AP but I was suspicious of him because of his multiple buddying posts. Asides from that I agreed with lots of stuff he said.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake: straaaaaaawman. I never said you were scummy for your policy. I said you were scummy for circlejerking about how good your policy was without actually being proactive about trying to start another wagon. You never appealed to anyone or encouraged anyone to get on Thor/Kthx. You just kind of said 'Ya Dave is scum, I dont like lynching cliamed PRs though' and coasted around whilst arguing mafia theory about your policy. Its not scummy because of your policy but because you apparently cared more about discussing your policy than doing anything about the lynch.

No strawmanning what so ever but nice try. You voted me because

Your stance on "Ya Dave is scum, but lets not lynch him today" whilst not actively trying to rally support for a wagon you did care about is odd.

my reply is directly responding to those 2 accusations.

As for me "arguing mafia theory about my policy", you do realize someone was asking me about it right?

Kush was questioning me about it and I was answering his questions, towards the end of that discussion Qwits hammers.

so you can try and mis-rep me yet again, but the truth is out there for the entire game to see.


now you had your 1 post and you didn';t retract your statement so

here it is you liar

you said

And accusing me of buddying you after one post really didn't make sense, context and all given.

I said

the buddying I was referring to would be the constant declarations that you think i am town, more so the defending of me when others say they don't think i am town.

[Jake from State Farm]

So I just skimmed that horrifying Jake response. Hes prob-scum. lol @ 'you liar'. If Im lying, then vote me. Give me your insurance Jake. You didnt want to say 'you are mistaken' because that would look like you know Im town. So Im lying. FUCK. OK ACTUALLY LEAVING UNTIL LATER.

U mad bro?

If I could push a wagon based off you lying, I absolutely would but the funny thing is most people won't lynch a player for lying (not sure why though$

I have plenty on Thor though,and since he's scum I'll just keep my vote on him.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Thor: werent you just voting Zipper? Why is he obvtown? Not caught up, sorry if im missing context.

You are missing context - reading th question i was answering (which I quoted) would probably help with that context.

@Thor: Once again, sorry if I missed. Read on jake, bullet points as to why?

My read on Jake is scummish mixed with anti-town mixed with troll. I don't feel content with it.

@Mastin - you scum this game?

You are calling me a troll? Aww did I hurt your feewings cawing you a bad pwayer?

Boo hoo, need some tissues?

[Jake from State Farm]

Thinkin' Jake's stance d1 makes lots of sense.

Also, I keep reading d3x, kthnx, and Thor, yet...they keep on all looking like scum.

Also, kush shouldn't be lynched, pretty much ever. The only lynch which'd be worse than kush would be AP.

Basically, Thor/kthnx/d3x should be lynched. If the game's not over when all of them have been lynched, we can look elsewhere for scum, but I still think that's our team.

Why is kush obv town?

[Jake from State Farm]

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

ROFL, hi Mr. SK how you doing

[Jake from State Farm]

Than explain how you are "suprised" that your biggest scum read wasn't NKd last night.

I'm not buying you are a Vig cause I'd be the worst vig target ever for N1, especially given a certain post I made

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not buying you are a Vig cause I'd be the worst vig target ever for N1, especially given a certain post I made

Where the hell did I claim killing powers?

I can read between the lines, it ties into why you are "suprised" your biggest scumread wasn't NKd?


If I was scum, why would I be killed by scum?

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not buying that AP.

I was obv town and I didn't die so I'm auto scum.

vote: AP

Everyone sheep me. AP is scum or SK.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll make it easier. I'm claiming a town PR

Now pick me or AP


Suck it scum

[Jake from State Farm]

If AP isn't lynched in the next 24 hours I'm going to be really fucking pissed. Do it now!

[Jake from State Farm]

No way Jose

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, we are never lynching AP.
Least of all, by you softclaiming some bullshit.

If I don't see you hardclaim what role you have, I will push your lynch harder than I've ever pushed a lynch before.

Yes we are. I'm leading this shit

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm x-shot commuter. Won't be telling how many i used or if I've used one.

Fuck off mastin, I'm leading.

[Jake from State Farm]

And if you lynch me today because you don't beleive my claim, I will flip town and AP and Thor should be your next 2 lynches

We are lynching him. Go away mastin.



P.edit - too bad mastin. He's the only lynch today

[Jake from State Farm]

I swear to god I'll do sonething to piss town off if his lynch doesn't go through right now

[Jake from State Farm]

AP needs to be lynched by 7:00 pm tomorrow or else

[Jake from State Farm]

No he lost the benefit of the doubt with his BS reasoning on that 180. No rational townie would make that leap.

AP gets lynched today. Sorry mastin, your town read on AP is wrong

P.edit - i'm not answering any questions from you AP. you are confirmed scum and don't need to answer to you

[Jake from State Farm]

AP gets lynched today. Sorry mastin, your town read on AP is wrong
P.edit - i'm not answering any questions from you AP. you are confirmed scum and don't need to answer to you

No, your scumread on him is wrong. I told you, at the start of the day. AP is 100% town. Zero doubt.

And so, answer his questions--if not for him, then for me, unless you think I'm scum as well.

(Hint: I'm not.)

You are nothing to me, your opinion isn't greater than my own.

[Jake from State Farm]

His day 1 buddying and his day 2 180 is more than enough to make me think he is scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

The moment you said I'm scum cause I didn't die last night was when you became confirmed.

The 180, I'm fine with because when people make sense it's easy to assume I'm scum trying for towncred like zipper did but no, you said I'm scum cause I didn't die.



If you aren't SK, why would you asking I'm BP if you didn't try to kill me? Lol, you aren't a VT

I'm a commuter

Town gets a scum lynch by lynching AP. if mastin doesn't shut his mouth he's guilty by association

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, are you dismissing the possibility that town-AP thought you were so obv-town that scum would have to shoot you? You're convinced he's sk or scum who shot and missed and then tried to get you lynched?

The moment he made the comment about me not being dead given my role I knew he confirmed himself. I wasn't the obvious NK target last night, for him to imply I was is laughable.

[Jake from State Farm]

Maybe I commuted, maybe I didn't. The fact you think that I have must mean you tried to kill me. If you were a VT you would not be arguing that I must have used it cause you would have no clue. It's called wifom. Scum has to decide if they can kill me tonight or not.

This argument can only come from a SK.

What if I didn't commute and there is no SK? The fact you were "suprised I wasn't killed" would only come from someone with NK info.

[Jake from State Farm]

If i was the obvious nk, Your reasonings in your opening post were just pulled out your ass. Which would confirm you as scum.

I felt more people thought you were town over me. You were more of a NK target IMO.

[Jake from State Farm]

No he lost the benefit of the doubt with his BS reasoning on that 180. No rational townie would make that leap.

What about an irrational town? Cuz as annoying as his supremacy attitude is, irrational town is the vibe I'm getting from him. Would also like to know how we'll "be sorry" when we don't participate in one of the dumbest things I've seen while playing ms.

You will have to just wait and see. He's confirmed himself, read between the lines, it's there.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not going to backpedal. But you won't flip town.

[Jake from State Farm]

Also Im fucking insulted that you think I would SK slip like that. lol.

Im not THAT dumb. I posture like a boss when I want to.

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

There is no way town makes this statement imo.

here is the best way I can show you I am town without actually getting lynched.

personally i like my policy so I will stick with it.


Dave, i was looking at your paraphrase of your role pm, your role PM says you are aligned with the town is that pretty close to how it is worded in your role pm, is it worded differently, or did you just add that in there?

This is the question I was asking Dave to see how it matched up with mine.

he paraphrased him pm to say he is aligned with the town

my PM say I am blank-blank X shot Commuter.

after he doesn't get what I am trying to do I say it again here

yeah you can't quote, wasn't trying to get you to do that just was trying to see if you added those for emphasis or if you changed the order around

4 posts later Dave is hammered.

Also, why would a townie be pushing me so hard to find out if I used my shot or not? It makes no difference if it has been used, especially if he doesn't even believe my claim (which he doesn't) The only one who benefits from knowing how many shots I have and if I have any used is scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

mod - I was reading your ruleset and was wondering what happens in the even of a modkill? Does that end the day or does the day continue?

[Jake from State Farm]

So jake telling the truth. Is a tough pill to swallow. But you aren't going to vote him atm or add him to your suspects. Sounds legit. Itt: your team shot jake. Jake was ready for the incoming maf push on him and mistook my statement for that mafpush and is claiming an unkillable PR to justify his being a BP SK and is voting someone he is SURE slipped about having a 2nd shot.

Yes, his reason for listing me as town was obvscum of him. Also his opinion on me jake walls.

Mastins stance is interesting given the jake revelations.

Edit: on phone need a few to get home

boy this is a huge leap.

I did not claim an unkillable PR. I claimed an x-shot commuter, once my shots are gone I am just a VT.

so I sort of cut you off before you could post earlier, you said "more later"

what exactly was that "more" if it wasn't you trying to claim you were a vig and shot me? Surely your "more" wasn't "he was so obvious town he had to be the obvious NK" because that isn't enough to merit that kind of post and I bet if you asked every person alive who they thought was more Obv town out of the 2 of us, I gurantee more people would say you, espeically after I stayed off that lynch. Zipper summed it up best, he said it looked like I was trying to earn town

Pants

points.

So please, assume I never claimed to be a commuter, what were you going to say that was going to condemn me as scum. I'd love to hear it as I am sure everyone else would.

[Jake from State Farm]

fuck it

can everyone chime in and say who their number 1 town read going into night 1 was. Was it me, AP, Thor, or someone else.

Please answer, let's see if AP's theory is right that I was the obvious NK target.

[Jake from State Farm]

Also Im fucking insulted that you think I would SK slip like that. lol.

Im not THAT dumb. I posture like a boss when I want to.

actually yeah you kind of are...

[Jake from State Farm]

my only problem with that post d3x is why would scum Kush pm the mod and what seems to complain about his unvote or lack of unvote, which than prompts the mod to post a reminder AFTER the town cop flips? (yes I am assuming given the mod's post and the post where kush thought he unvoted)

that seems to be an elaborate attempt to gain town points if you ask me.

[Jake from State Farm]

YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU WERE SHOT AT LAST NIGHT AND YOU HAVE ALREADY PERCEIVED MY OPENING VOTE AS SOMEONE WHO IS AWARE OF THAT. THE ONLY WAY THAT MAKES SENSE IS IF YOU KNOW THERE ARE 2 SHOTS.

You being alive is a little odd. More later.

Let's see.

if I were shot last night (or someone attempted to kill me) the 2nd quote seems to suggest you know something about it. Right or wrong?

Also if you thought I was most likely to be killed, why would you say this

I am a litle concerned that I wasnt killed since I think my Kthx/Thor reads are still good

you said yourself you thought I was more likely to be killed, if you thought that than you would not worry that you were at risk at all. :plot thickens:

also here is an interesting note from his most recent post.

k, Im down to lynch any of the 3 stooges (qwints, mastin, kthxbye). Mastin, why do YOU think rondar was killed over you? Why are you asking qwints specifically?

Wait, you don't want to lynch me anymore?

the person you are claiming is bullet proof scum?

and why the change on Mastin anyway? Post 588 you declare him town and want to be "masons" with him and now he is in your top 3. (remind me how the person you think is BP scum isn't in your top 3 again?)

lol MAN I love when I make so much sense it fucking hurts.

Wagon ho, let's do this. AP is confirmed.

[Jake from State Farm]

and on that I will go to bed. If he is lynched before I wake up I will seriously be a happy person.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok why I think you are SK and not mafia? Because its pretty obvious from that "more late" post you were going to claim vig. Secondly, I was not the obvious NK target, you or Thor were the 2 more vocal. Thirdly, if you read Double's iso he pretty much made sense and somebody probably suspected he was "laying low" because he was a PR

As for my role not being on the Normal list, my role isn't on the "not normal" list either.

You also forgot this part in the rules

New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication.

Which basically means any role not on the list but isn't on the non approved list could be added. A commuter would definitely fit that. In fact a commuter is very similar to Hider so it definitely fits. I'll even go a step further and when I get to a PC.

Sorry AP, you aren't leading town today. You ARE getting lynched today. You ARE scum of some sort (most likely SK based on your setup post)

Anyone not voting AP needs to do so now

[Jake from State Farm]

Vote Count #7

kushm4sta:

3 (d3x, MaverickMaestro, qwints)

AngryPidgeon:

3 (Jake from State Farm, zipperflesh, kthxbye)

kthxbye:

2 (AngryPidgeon, mastin2)

zipperflesh:

2 (Thor665, Cybertronix)

Not Voting:

1 (kushm4sta)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Good job with the activity, gents.

Why so many votes not on AP? Seriously let's lynch scum guys

[Jake from State Farm]

mod - I was reading your ruleset and was wondering what happens in the even of a modkill? Does that end the day or does the day continue?

Dun?

[Jake from State Farm]

THE Tl:DR ON WHY JAKE HAS TO BE AN SK

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

VOTE: Jake Cuz if I were scum I would have killed you. You being alive is a little odd. More later.

ROFL, hi Mr. SK how you doing

I say its odd he is alive because he was a good NK target for scum. (I was only half serious about this point, it was mostly a reaction test. Take that or leave it. 0 fucks given about what people think about my alignment ATM)

In response, he calls me an SK. THINK ABOUT THAT.

Why does he accuse me of being an SK and not Mafia?

Lets assume Jake is a a town commuter and he assumes that I shot him last night and that I slipped about it.

Why does he assume I am an SK?

I could be mafia and the SK shot double-JD. I could also be a Vig. Why does Jake immediately assume I am an SK and not one of the other 2 (especially mafia)? Note that there would be a 2 or 3x more likelihood of me being mafia anyways in this situation anyways!

TL;DR:
1.

Jake assumes I am an SK after I 'slip' on targeting him

. He has no reason to assume that when mafia-AP is MORE likely from his perspective if he really is town. There is no reason why SK couldnt have killed DoubleJD and the mafia team (me) tried to target Jake. But he assumes the reverse FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. In fact, Jake HAS to be an SK and not just mafia here. If Jake is mafia, he has to be a BP goon. He has no reason to believe I am an SK (there was only one kill last night) unless his team shot someone BP who would then be the SK. (And that isnt me).

THEREFORE Jake HAS to be the SK.

2. Jake preemptively defends/OMGUS's from my opening post. Why is he so overly defensive for absolutely no reason? Because he KNOWS that he was shot at. Him jumping to conclusions about my post proves it.

How could he know that unless he knows who is responsible for the DoubleJD kill? He killed DoubleJD.

The mafia tried to kill Jake which brings me to point 3.

3. His claim.

X-shot commuter is a very rare PR.

In fact, it is not even in the list of mafiascum approved

normal

roles: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game
ESPECIALLY given that this is Dunham's first modded game, I doubt he would push normal boundaries. This is occam's razor. I will fucking murder anyone that calls WIFOM on this.
Also it makes perfect sense for an SK in his situation. His claim has just enough to it to be able to handwave away any doubts about him not being NK'd for the rest of the game.

I say its odd he is alive because he was a good NK target for scum. (I was only half serious about this point, it was mostly a reaction test. Take that or leave it. 0 fucks given about what people think about my alignment ATM)

So you felt the need to reaction test me twice? Pfft

See if you were half serious, than me being alive would not be THAT big of a suprise. Which means your 180 on me because I was alive becomes invalid. Maybe I jumped the gun and you really are a VT but it's pretty obvious to me you were about to claim vig. Me being a vig target makes sense.

If I jumped the gun and you are a VT than your play and your 180 on me makes no sense. A SK (or even mafia) who tried to kill me (assuming ) that's what happen would explain your reactions perfectly.

A VT would not be suprised a town read was alive and automatically assume they were scum.

Bolded for the 2nd most accurate post of the entire game[/b]

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake - why would a Vig claim need to necessitate coming from SK and not Mafia?
More importantly - if he was going for a Vig claim...why back off of it? He's still set up to make the claim, why change gears to VT if he thinks you got protected somehow?

2 very good questions.

1. I don't see him being Mafia and attacking me saying I have to be scum for reasons x. y. and z and than later claiming I was the most obvious mafia kill. The way he tried to paint me as scum early on in the day definitely was setting himself up for a vig claim in my opinion. if I jumped to the wrong conclusion, opps my bad but i don't think i did.

2. he backed off of it because I claimed a PR and if he continues with his line of questioning and gets me lynched he knows i will flip pro-town and my flip confirms him as scum and ensures he is lynched tomorrow. Even with his VT claim, if I somehow get lynched today I am still demanding with my dying breath he gets lynched tomorrow because I absolutely will flip what i said I am.


I also want to point out how AP seems to back off me and changes his vote to someone else after I post 686. he completely gives up on the idea of lynching me, despite thinking I am BP or un-killable. He knows I am telling the truth which is why he completely ignored it (he hasn't responded to it yet despite responding to posts made after that one and he can't claim he didn't see it because he posts immediately after I make that post)

[Jake from State Farm]

Thanks Dun.

[Jake from State Farm]

His 180 confirms he isn't town. That leap that I'm scum because I didn't die without considering any other possibility makes no sense. I guess he could be mafia but the way he was worded sounded like he was setting up a Vig claim. I don't buy him as vig shooting me so that left SK.

If I'm wrong, I'll deal with it but he isn't town. No way that's possible at all.

[Jake from State Farm]

Luckily you aren't leading today, I am. Now vote Ap or I'll use your own logic and consider it an admission of scum.

No matter what AP will get lynched this day phase. That's going to happen

[Jake from State Farm]

So mastin is scum also. Sweet.

[Jake from State Farm]

mastin, you realize I won't be alive come day 3 right?

[Jake from State Farm]

Fine, if you think I've scum claimed lynch me. That's more respectable than what I was going to do

[Jake from State Farm]

No his play confirms he's scum

[Jake from State Farm]

hey Thor, while I have some free time, care to explain how Zipper can be scum because of his wagon position yet you criticize Mastin for also using wagon analysis.

Also you said the most obvious NK target for you was zipper, which mean you thought he was town but the day starts and you do a 180 and say zipper is scum. (essentially what AP did)

how is that possible? The same wagon analysis was available to you after the Dave flip.

p.edit - no mastin, you aren't leading so shut the fuck up.

[Jake from State Farm]

Thor - why ask the question though? you should question suspicious behavior and wagon analysis isn't suspicious

and yes I mean at the start of the day, if you thought he was most likely to be killed at night why would you use wagon analysis to accuse he is scum. doesn't make sense

[Jake from State Farm]

no need to read, vote AP. that's all you need to know

[Jake from State Farm]

Mastin, what happened to your d3x scumread? Why is MM scum?

Jake, why would I claim VT if I you think I was setting up to crumb vig and you gave me an out to do so? Why would I shoot someone I had a townread on if I were planning on claiming vig?

Officially, what do you think I will flip? And tell me again why there is any reason to think I was SK over mafia?

I have answered all of these already, so I am not doing it again.


why did you ignore my post 686 and shortly after that, give up on lynching me?

[Jake from State Farm]

Yes it is and no it's not wrong

[Jake from State Farm]

@ mastin - you just said as scum you have reads in advanced and as town you don't. But your first post of the game you definitely have established reads in advanced

[Jake from State Farm]

Jesus qwints, are you reading my posts? I've said like 4million times that Jake is an SK that thinks I am mafia. He is hoping a maf flip from me will make it obvious he isn't mafia and he is hoping that calling me an SK preemptively will make him look like someone that doesn't know the game setup and therefore isnt an SK. Im not mafia though. My statement about killing him was a the worlds luckiest reaction test. Its like I threw a dart blindfolded and hit the bullseye 10 meters away.
.

no, I am a commuter who thinks you are most likely an SK.

riddle me this batman, why would I out myself and go through all that trouble if I was SK or mafia for that reason?

why am I getting myself modkilled in a few hours just to prove to everyone I am actually town and forcing them to lynch you if I was an Sk or mafia?

Your statement about it being the worlds luckiest reaction test is wrong howver because you already know I am town and you had a pretty good idea I was a PR

@Jake: So you think Im an SK. You have no good reason for any of your assertions. Got it.
.

are you even reading? I have outlined everything you have done that no rational townie would do. That leaves you are scum or you aren't a rational.

[Jake from State Farm]

^ smh mod

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, 3 questions for you:

1) How the hell is getting modkilled playing to your win condition?
2) How is confirming your status know more valuable than you staying alive?
3) What if you're wrong about your read on AP?

1. 1 for 1 in this situation helps town. If I have to sacrifice myself to get town to lynch scum, so be it
2. As long as I'm alive, I'm going to do nothing but demand AP is lynched. How useful will I be?
3. No possible way I can be wrong for all the reasons I've already outlined.

P.edit - if kthx flipped scum that wouldn't confirm you as town lol

[Jake from State Farm]

But nobody will lynch me. AP thinks I'm scum but won't lynch me. Why?

Cause he knows my lynch confirms him as scum. Hello people?

[Jake from State Farm]

Are you forgetting he demanded the 1 for 1 and backed off when people actually considered it.

I'm not backing down, why is he?

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, I believe you to be town.

Threatening to modkill yourself--while incredibly stupid--is the special kind of stupid that can only come from town.

But I'm telling you, lynching AP is just as stupid (if not moreso) as your threat.

So lynch kthnx.

I'm sorry, you missed my post where I said my opinion is > yours. The fact you declare AP town like that is actually a scumtell so kindly keep your mouth shut. I'll worry about you another day.

[Jake from State Farm]

Than lynch me please

[Jake from State Farm]

Also I've see MM's name at the bottom at least twice today. MM is probably lurker scum. After I die and AP flips, coin flip on mastin and MM as to who's next.

P.edit - :bites tongue:

[Jake from State Farm]

When I die and flip town, will an AP lynch happen next?

That's all I want to know

[Jake from State Farm]

Why would I not claim BP townie if I knew that? That's a more believable claim than commuter if I was faking. I could than go on and say 1 of my shots were used.

Idk if he shot me for sure, but his posts definitely give me the impression he tried to shoot me.

[Jake from State Farm]

Who's benmage?

[Jake from State Farm]

I have modded a normal game before, I'm well aware of what can and can't be included you obviously had no clue. Btw, did you know normals can have a pgo or a bomb? Those aren't on the role list either. Normals can have any freaking role you want as long as its not on the forbidden list.


A BP townie is more believeable than a commuter. Hell, even the wiki says the commuter is a common fake claim for scum.

Thanks for proving you know shit about anything.

P.edit - why would I claim either of those if I was faking. A 1 shot or 2 shop BP is totally believable and a much safer fake claim.

P.edit - 2 - not asking you mastin

[Jake from State Farm]

You realize Dunham is an alt right?

[Jake from State Farm]

He never actually /in's in the normal que (i checked) nor did he meet the 3 month criteria when his name was added (which they almost never waive)

Sure my claim is improbable, but it's also true. I could have claimed 2 shot BP and claimed 1 shot gone if I was faking.

I already said I don't know for sure if you tried to kill me but when you say

"I'm suprised you are alive, more later"

And the only thing you say later is I was your number 1 town read and you were sure I'd be killed, that isnt enough to warrant a delay in saying that. You could have said that in the same post.

The more later was a hint at a vig claim. Guranteed.

[Jake from State Farm]

im not voting yet because i haven't had time to read the last 10 or so pages closely.

Vote AP, he's scum

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, if my 'more later' wsa a hint at a vig claim, and you gave me an out for the claim, why the HELL did I snap-claim VT?

Why are you known as someone who lies as town and scum?

You aren't a smart player

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, if my 'more later' wsa a hint at a vig claim, and you gave me an out for the claim, why the HELL did I snap-claim VT?

:valid:

/leaves.

Leaving before 7? You haven't voted AP yet

[Jake from State Farm]

Mastin said it too iirc

Additionally the real reason you claimed VT is I claimed a PR. That forced you to claim vig and nobody believing you or claiming vt

That's why you claimed vt, nobody would buy you trying to kill your top town read

[Jake from State Farm]

And day 2 he did nothing but call me scum.

You expect me to beleive he sees the day start, and in 6 minutes he goes through all the possibilities of why I am alive and comes to the conclusion that me being scum is the only way? And his reasoning why I'm scum is cause I didn't want to lynch a claimed a PR and I accused him of buddying?

That's a huge leap considering there are at least 3-4 reasons why I could be alive (hint, 1 of those reasons is sonething AP said he immediately assumes if he isn't NKd)

[Jake from State Farm]

If I really felt that shooting my top townreas would be suspicious, why did I 'crumb' having shot you in the first place?

P-edit: that. Jake is smoking two sides of the same cigar.

You could easily fabricate reasons why you thought I was scum, oh wait you already did that in your opening day 2 post

[Jake from State Farm]

Did you really think anyone could successfully save Dave?

Did you miss the post where I said we should wait for replacements to arrive?

There was 2 weeks left, I needed to start a push that very second? I made a case in Thor, it was ignored.

[Jake from State Farm]

I miss Thor.

I thought you were scum because of your refusal to try and counterwagon Dave despite saying that he shouldn't be lynched.

Anytalk about you being alive came later.

P-edit: lol. Ok. You are saying that I talked about shooting you so that I could fake claim Vig as an SK. Then you said that I claimed VT because it would look sus if I shot you. Its a logical contradiction in your theory. Either you are being dumb, or you are scum caught contradicting yourself about why I am scum.

If I claimed VT, i feel you would have stuck with your claim. The moment I claimed PR, you knew you were fucked.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake: are you defending yourself from my case? Not all cases are good. But that was my reasoning. You are arguing against it as if you believe I am making a legit case on you which contradicts with your belief that I was bullshitting entirely when I said it.

I'm saying in 6 minutes I dont beleive you jumped to that bs conclusion. You said yourself when you dont die it's cause your reads were probably wrong. Why would you not consider that as why I was alive? Why would you not consider scum avoided me due to thinking I would be protected, a watcher would be on me, scum decide to RB me instead of killing me, etc...

You ignored all those options IMO

P.edit - I'm voting you and only you until one of us is dead

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not trying to Convince you, I'm trying to show people why you are near confirmed scum

[Jake from State Farm]

Confirming

vote: Angry Pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: Angry Pigeon

This will stop when AP is dead.

[Jake from State Farm]

Getting lynched is acceptable. Getting mod killed on purpose may get me site banned.


If the day didn't end, it's a risk I was willing to take, not worth it for town to lose me plus 2 more people at night.

vote: Angry Pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

The difference of it ending the day was absolutely why I changed my mind.

vote: Angry Pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

If I could get killed and you lynched in the same day, I'd 100% risk being site banned for the good of the game.

vote: Angry pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

This is actually ridiculous. Jake is so obviously scum that I cannot believe Im actually having to convince people of it rather than convince people to vote mafia over the claimed SK

So why are you not telling people to lynch me?

vote: Angry pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

So it's pro town to keep the person you think is the SK alive?


Because you think I wouldnt kill anymore? lol

If I was a caught SK, I'd still kill every night until lynched.

Luckily I'm not any type of scum. Keeping me Alive let's you kill some more and try to pin it on me.

vote: Angry pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

I always kill when I'm a killing role. SK is impossible to win so I'd just kill random people

[Jake from State Farm]

Ebwop

vote: Angry Pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

so lynch me if you are so sure, but be prepared to be lynched tomorrow after I flip town.

There is no pro town motivation for not wanting to lynch who you think is confirmed scum. Letting the person you think is SK live because you think they won't kill anymore is naive and it's anti town.

vote: Angry pigeon

AP - seems SO SURE I am SK yet he votes for someone he isn't nearly as sure is scum aka risking a potential mislynch with the other person. How the hell is this pro-town behavior? You ALWAYS vote the sure lynch as town.

More votes on AP

[Jake from State Farm]

just like you were so sure Dave was scum right?

yeah your kthx case is weak sauce, I am suspicious of kthx and I could put together a better case than yours without even trying hard.

vote kthx

psyche

Vote: angry pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

Logical fallacies ahoy. W/e. Im going to wait for Thor to make his catchup here.

so now you are buddying up to thor? good call, he is probably the easiest person to buddy. Look how easy it was for Zipper

Vote: Angry Pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

I will concede you make a valid point AP in 888, additionally not sure why he would ask the question to me again, I have already said I think AP is the SK

Vote: Angry Pigeon

[Jake from State Farm]

Im kind of ok with a Kush lynch ATM. My first response was "No, he cant be scum. Hes simply too dumb to be scum". But on further inspection, he could easily be dumb scum.

I'd bet you would be "ok" with any lynch since you don't value any of your town reads.

[Jake from State Farm]

mod, would you consider replacing MM? He's totally lurking on purpose. Yesterday I saw his name at least 4 times showing he was browsing the forum.

If the mod says no I may give AP a 1 day stay and lynch that fucker. If only we had a cop to investigate AP and confirm my suspicion...

[Jake from State Farm]

why not AP?

[Jake from State Farm]

So sent a similar thing to the mod that I'm saying here.

Had a really shitty past couple of days and took it out here. Apologies to everyone.

That being said, since we dont have any proof of a SK, me pushing a lynch on the person who I think is one is really dumb. I'll concede that and will gladly take any flack for my change in play

vote: MM

Laying low all of day 2, and really day 1 also. I know he was viewing the forums yesterday and couldn't even manage 1 post?

Pressure time (although I'm perfectly fine lynching him also)

[Jake from State Farm]

OMG, you hammered him!!!!

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: kthx

Since mod has addressed MM

[Jake from State Farm]

Where is that slacker mod with a VC?

[Jake from State Farm]

I have a strict day 2 "no lynch a claimed VT" policy sorry

unvote

Psyche

vote kthx

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't fake claim as scum, I'm not a good liar

If I did I certainly would not pick sonething dumb like commuter, I'd pick something that could possibly be CC'd

[Jake from State Farm]

I read thor's mind he said flip a coin, AP or MM

[Jake from State Farm]

so I figured it out, Kthx is the SK.

kthx would not answer the questions from mastin about rondar. He made a point to ask me if I thought AP was SK or mafia, if he was vig why would he want that clarification made.

and that means AP isn't the SK, he is probably mafia which would make sense.

Mastin is trying to clear his buddy AP while AP is trying to bus mastin.

if we let kthx live than kthx needs to shoot either mastin or AP if we lynch him and indeed flips SK than tomorrow we lynch AP.

sounds like a perfect plan.

[Jake from State Farm]

but mastin must be town because he sucks ass as scum, and this game he is looking like good town. How do you rectify this?

if this is what you consider good play from mastin, i'd hate to see his horrible play. I have seen mastin much better.

[Jake from State Farm]

mastin wrote articles about how to play properly so he definitely is self aware of his meta and is probably pretty good at convincing people he is town even when he is not (assumption based of nothing)

The only thing that bugs me about mastin is how sure he is about AP being town, but AP's play hasn't been that Obv town. makes no sense.

p.edit - tbh I don't know. The rondo kill looks more like a SK kill than it does a mafia one. If it was a mafia kill than the only 2 people worth lynching would be Zipper or MM (dead guy's fosses)

nope I'm not a BP goon.

since I know you aren't the SK anymore, I guess I could go with you are mafia and push for your lynch again. That's back on the table now we have our potential SK outed.

[Jake from State Farm]

for now on i'm just going to listen to the voices in my head and do what they tell me to do.

[Jake from State Farm]

ignorning AP cause we don't need another fight in the same damn day phase.

vote: MM

[Jake from State Farm]

The moment they lynched the cop, this game was fucked. If you flip town AP is the only lynch tomorrow.

[Jake from State Farm]

I wasn't just sitting here lurking and why would I defend you?

[Jake from State Farm]

I know deep in my heart you were null

[Jake from State Farm]

so if you are indeed town, give us your top 3 based on honest reads and not OMGUS.


GO!

[Jake from State Farm]

so the person pushing your lynch (AP) is a town read? werid

[Jake from State Farm]

The moment they lynched the cop, this game was fucked. If you flip town AP is the only lynch tomorrow.

Why is AP our only lynch tomorrow should kush flip town? (He won't but still)

Kush: Cuz you're scum. Don't worry, your scumbuddy qwints will be dead with you in short order.

actually he isn't, because if you don't shoot him tonight it will confirm you are an SK instead of a vig. AP is scum (remember you were trying to lynch him so you obviously think he is scum)

The way he reacted to Dave's claim and refused to even consider it was legit and his strong arming of a kush lyncg (assuming kush flips town) not to mention the fact that he was "suprised" i was alive. on Day 2 I have never been "suprised" someone was alive, more so I was "suprised" someone was dead.

If you don't shoot AP tonight, Zipper or MM are also acceptable shots.

[Jake from State Farm]

im fine with you shooting AP because he's an asshat

if AP turns out to be town in this game, I think I have found a new sig lol