Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[mykonian]

hello.

I'm in a strange mood so I'm not actually going to get coherent thoughts here anyway. I think I remember elyse, I don't think I was particulary impressed with RC. Aeronaut! hi. You ahve a different avvi.

I don't think I'm supposed to know anyone else? I hope I didn't insult anyone with that. Sorry in that case. I am bad with names.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is "HIiiiiii I'm looking forward to gettting to know you and playing this fun game with new people!".

this post is telling me to go to bed.

[mykonian]

I don't think I'm supposed to know anyone else? I hope I didn't insult anyone with that. Sorry in that case. I am bad with names.

YOU WERE ONE OF THREE REVIEWERS FOR A GAME I NEVER GOT PAST THE REVIEW STAGE HOW CAN YOU NOT REMEMBER YOU DON'T LOVE ME!

I've reviewed so many

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

counterclaim one shot pre-game cop. TheDudeisscum.

vote thedude

on a more serious note, I don't like eektor.

[mykonian]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

counterclaim one shot pre-game cop. TheDudeisscum.

vote thedude

on a more serious note, I don't like eektor.

So you think I'm scummy but instead of voting for me, you chose to continue with an RVS vote?

You nailed it.

[mykonian]

I'm getting tunnel vision on Metal. Why are you continuing with RVS when there are better voting options?

Because I'd like to get to know people better first.

[mykonian]

as in, I could explain why I dislike eektor's posts as of now, but it's small stuff and it might just be eektor being eektor. I'm in no rush

[mykonian]

oh, no, nothing of the sorts.

It's just that it's minor. So the discussion wouldn't be too worthwhile.

[mykonian]

I like elyse so far.

[mykonian]

@Myko, do you see anybody worth pushing yet?

not really, I have two vague townreads, three vague scumreads (eektor, taly, lemons). I think I'm voting someone town.

[mykonian]

...
I think I'm voting someone town.

That sounds suboptimal if you're town. Feasible, but suboptimal.

Oh, very much so. I do not intend to keep it that way.

I can see the others, but given his inexperience I'm not yet sold on Taly as a scumread. Would you mind explaining what you're seeing?

Mostly post 114 and 124. Esspecially the last is a bit awkward. The first is less obvious, could maybe even go either way depending on who taly is, but I think that's slightly scummy.

[mykonian]

as it's such a change of pace from his normal posting style

Please educate me. You don't me that well from 3 posts.

[mykonian]

I really don't understand how post 124 was to be seen as scum mykonian, I was openly receptive for people to ask questions to try and see a better side of me because they were obviously unsure since they didn't know that much. I want people to ask questions because it seems town-motivated to for the questioning, and questioned to realize the side of the other, and both to understand information to know what to do to press forward. Also, I agree with Aquanim in post 144 - you haven't given any reasons for any of your reads as far as I've seen and even when answered in post 149 you didn't even elaborate on top of that. Other than this, I haven't seen many posts from you indicating a lot of insight, or at the very least, town-motivated thoughts.

VOTE: mykonian

hmm. Hows that for omgus.

[mykonian]

You just normally seem so cheery and friendly, that to respond to an incredulous question like that without really divulging anything or even offering an explanation as to why you aren't divulging anything is in contrast to what I've seen of how you post from the brief time I've spent playing with you. I'm aware it's hard to tell tone in text, but it seemed as though you almost expected it to be a perfect, sufficient explanation. With that said, why did you keep your RVS vote?

heh, well then.

I'm not terribly cheery.

I also am quite aware that it's not very satisfying to have a vote on a townread. But it's not as if I'm not aware.

What you are doing then, is being my mom. "Don't you think you it's a good idea to clean your room".

but since I feel like being an adolescent, I'm answering "yes, that's an awesome idea" and continue to not do it.

[mykonian]

I really don't understand how post 124 was to be seen as scum mykonian, I was openly receptive for people to ask questions

Actually, I can easily explain what's bothering me with this post, and in a similar way, post 124.

Asking people to ask you questions, esspecially at this early point of the game is a defense mechanism. Explaining what you did and why you did things tends to put people at ease. Since scum hasn't really bothered to make any moves, they haven't been in tight spots yet (hey, we just finished the RVS), this is "easy". Which is wrong with this post and post 124.

The second thing that is very wrong with this post in particular is the emphasis on "openly". This is a given when you are town. The emphasis doesn't make half as much sense when you are town (you are open anyway), but makes more sense from a scum mindset "I can still be honest about my gameplay so far, there's nothing to find".


So the way I see it, Taly is a prime candidate for scum.

[mykonian]

there are too few taly votes

vote taly

[mykonian]

MC's vote is a bit strange. Not really seeing that.

[mykonian]

that's just RC, I think. He's disruptive anyway.

I fear I'll need a proper read this weekend, I've not found a time where I could properly focus on this game.

[mykonian]

hmm, no, don't think so taly. I don't think you get credit for putting me in the spotlight. I've made two whole posts about voting a townread, you'd really need to step up your game.

And coming clean isn't a thing in mafia. If you are scum at the start of the game, you are scum for the entirity of the game. You can't say "sorry" about a post that exposes you.

@aquanim, iso me for a case on Taly. It's one of the last posts.

[mykonian]

Actually, I could even link you to it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p6647588

[mykonian]

Ah, the blessing of internet in the train. Let see what I can put together in 50 min.

I don't think post by post analysis is very useful, nobody reads it anyway, but otoh I like posting when I read something, so bear with me.

First things first, I don't like RC. In general. A post like post 8 puts me off straight away anyway. I think the game would be better off without him, and knowing from the next pages, I'm going to keep thinking that.

My initial read of Eektor was his random vote as well. His explanation of "I got tagged, lets pass it on" is super awkward and scummy. You'd be fine without a reason, and shift of responsibility is just sucky.

page 2 is a giant waste of time. Oh, page three, I remember this one. Taly's unvote of eektor. I did not get this at all. We've really not reached escape velocity from the start of the game, given MC's random vote and subsequent inconsequental responses. Eektor had shown nothing positive yet. And somehow, this was taly's time to unvote and not make any positive move. Just to make sure you understand me, a positive move would be accusing someone, preferably without being prompted by someone else. Initiative would have been a more correct term. Taly shows none here. Which btw is going to come back. The moment Taly gets moving again is when I poke around with half posts (call it whatever you like, either laziness or "reaction tests" or w/e, I posted less than I could in the early game and that tends to annoy people). Anyway, that's the point that Taly gets moving against me, that was prompted. So there's that pattern there.

post 121 by toolenduso[/ur] is pushing taly on a good point. I can't help but like toolen for that, Lemons has voiced similar statements before and after but did less to act on it. In similar way, elyse has voice opinions I had in mind at that time. All can go on the town pile for thinking like I do though. Borders on tunneling from me, but I can afford that day one, I think. In response, 124 is horrible. That's as passive as you are going to get.

Hmm, I have lemons as a scumread at that point, lets see if I can retrace what post made me think that. (rereading, he was the first person to talk about dude and my claim being fake. That's a small blemish, really. But i'd expect scum to make such a post more easily. Something to keep in mind)

Page 8 converts my earlier promise of seeing scum in posts of taly into the real case when he finally bites and makes a vote again. As mentioned before, I don't want to call this initiative, it's very reactive to a vague post by me.

At which point RC goes off on idk what tangent, pushes practically policy lynch suddenly and idk, it's not as if we are playing with shotty here. I have no clue what goes on in RC's mind, but otoh it's probably better to keep it that way. Hell, if there was one player to policy lynch this game, I'd know who I would pick.

With that last part said VOTE: RadiantCowbells. RC makes me nervous, I don't really like the push on Odd then the switch over to Aqua. I see this as the best D1 lynch right now and the flip, either way, would provide us with the most information.

MC's vote is a bit strange. Not really seeing that.

MC's vote is a bit strange. Not really seeing that.

What's brothering you about it? I want to see if I can explain it better.

Ok, I missed this last question, my apologies.

I dislike RC too. Means that I really don't want to read him right now because I'm going to be biased anyway. Either way, this is not the way to reach a vote.

People who make you nervous aren't people who you think are scummy.
People who would "either way" provide you the most information aren't people who you think are scummy.

and these two thoughts aren't exclusive to me, there's a reason there's some hate on information lynches anyway. You should have known better.

And 2 stations still to go, post is done!

[mykonian]

oh bloody hell, I'd be very grateful if the mod could fix that link

also, tl;dr:

Toolen: town
Elyse: town
Lemons: town but something to keep an eye on.

eektor: scum
taly: d1 lynch
RC: annoying.

For the rest there is a sliding scale but I'll post about it when I figure out more.

[mykonian]

I have two questions for you:
1) Do you think Taly is willingly revealing his own reasoning for his reads and motivation for his actions?
2) Do you think Taly is trying to draw information out of other players to further his own reads?

Which reads.

Taly has voted eektor, then unvoted p much during the RVS stage. Didn't vote anyone till I started prodding, then voted me, when the case solidified and Elyse pressured, unvoted, and now he's back.

There are no "reads". There's one "read" and that happens to be on a person that's voting him.


If you read my post where I'm actually talking about what I think and thought this game, you can see that half my issue with the words is that they show how there's no action coming from taly. The other half is that I think they show how he has a scum mindset.

[mykonian]

Taly's 259 seems town motivated.

No.

And it's easy to explain too, but it heavily depends on the person you are playing with.

There are people who make lists all the time. There are people who do it much more often as scum. There aren't people who do it much more as town. The people who do it much more as scum are the people who have trouble feigning reads and putting accusations out. Making a list or a pbpe is a solid way to get enough focus to get a good sized town looking post out which circumvents such a persons usual struggles of getting a vote down. Possible other considerations are in the timing of such posts, are they early or late, do they come in a lull in the game, etc.

Or in other ways, unless said person believes lists and pbpe's are good anyway (and that's easy to catch from their other games), both of such posts should be seen with scepticism.

Issue is, I haven't bothered to find time to read taly's previous games (yet). Either way, that is not the town motivated post you could find in taly's iso.

[mykonian]

Taly doesn't have previous games. That's been said before... a fair number of times.

Are you reading the thread, mykonian?

not quite sure what answer you expect

Yes I'm reading the thread.
No, I don't read everything just as seriously (for example, I'm completely out of the loop of RC's oddmusic and aqua case, I more or less browsed those pages, because I did not like how that came to be and the kind of posting it resulted in. I don't think it's productive)
Yes I'm mostly interested in parts that I know tend to give me my reads.

So it's very possible I skipped the bit where someone tried to meta taly and failed. I also know I skipped a paragraph of taly's self meta somewhere. Read the first sentence, then moved on. It could easily have been in there. That was simply not going to help me form a read, I don't like reading self meta as I'm going to think that person is scummy because of it nearly all the time.

But sure, if it's been mentioned 5 times that taly doesn't have games, that'd be odd if I didn't catch it. Would you mind quoting those "fair number of times"?

[mykonian]

yes, 126 was the thing I skipped after the first sentence.

Obviously I did know that he was a new player. I didn't know that there were 0 previous games.

[mykonian]

either way, to get back on track then, I'd take pbpe's or lists of reads esspecially early in the game as scummy then, having no contrary evidence that a player (taly in this case) just likes to do those.

[mykonian]

School is closed due to weather, I have actually slept for a night the past few days, and I’m in a better mentality for putting my thoughts across.

RadiantCowbells

– I think this is her overall behavior and meta, but her abrasiveness and confidence in her arguments is off-putting to me. Especially with her arguments towards Aquanim and others she’s jumped on, it doesn’t have a lot of substance. I’m impressed she seems to know quite a bit about “cognitive dissonance,” pressure, and other things she said she has applied in this game. She can be a rough townie, or a competent scum. So far, I haven’t seen much I can trust and my gut tells me she can manipulate others. Even though her scumhunting may be town-motivated, I just haven’t seen something I liked yet.

Reading: Slight Lean Scum

Question:

Can you elaborate on your case on Aquanim?

And supposedly the other 3 people you've seem to think were good lynches this early in D1?

I can see where this comes from, either way. I don't think it should make a scumread, but this I can see coming from either side.

Toolenduso

– I do believe Tool has made some good points in assessing how I’ve come across to others, and his idea of putting up a scum case towards me seems a little incoherent. I wouldn’t say he has put up a strong case with me, but from what I’ve seen of Tool in his interactions to others, he seems to be a stronger player in how he words himself. I haven’t seen enough to tell alignment, but my reading on him so far would be:

Neutral

Question:

Tool, what are your opinions on the most prominent posters so far?

filler.

oddmusic

– The only thing I’ve defended with odd over was the possibility that the wagon against him wasn’t credible. He already justified he had a bad day, and only one post of frustration can come from either a town or scum. That said, it really rubbed me the wrong way when he talked about the possibility of Aquanim and I being a scum team, especially when we were the ones trying to keep a detracting wagon from forming.

Where did that come from?

I have done very little to buddy with Aquanim other than stating my opinion that I think his patience and approach to this game is a lot easier and more efficient to deal with than most other peoples’ reactions so far. (I’m not one to talk, but those are my thoughts.) I am unsure of him. I think odd is trying to find credible and justified reasons to appear safe, which I can see from both alignments with a wagon on them.

Reading: Neutral

Question:

Do you think the wagon against you is justified? If not, who do you think is worth a push for scumreading?

suppose taly is scum, this is buddying. Otherwise, can't call this as much filler as toolen, but.

lets see how to put this. I mean, the big part of this post is about defending taly, first his defensiveness over oddmusic, then defending the accusation that came (which is fair, but I don't know if it should belong in a reads post). Only the last sentence is a "read", but then that doesn't go anywhere. The question is because taly feels he should ask people questions, just like with toolen. It isn't helpful.

mykonian

– My reactions to mykonian were a little off, I’ve understood that now. I guess I have a better view on his thinking, the small opinion posts he is dropping indicate that he wants to get reactions from others. (Wanting to drive responses through votes.) Which I think is necessary for getting information, even though I feel his suspicions are misplaced I have found some posts that I think are decent from him. I wish he posted more though.

Reading: Slight Town Lean

Question:

After you have read this entire post

what are your thoughts on me?

Eh, you tell me. I guess I'm biased here.

Elyse

– I have mixed thoughts about Elyse. Her getting us out of RVS and her assessing everyone for info and greater desire to find progress in questioning others seems very town-motivated. I think she’s one of the strongest players in here. But this also makes me worry because she could be a very smart scum, and in looking at her win ratio, she seems to be very good at either alignment. I also don’t see her readings on everyone particularly, and I say this to encourage some insight form her. Anyway my gut tells me she is town, I just hope that is and that her vote on me is realized to be misplaced. (Even though I’ve given her valid reason to vote due to sketchy play, that is all I can say but I hope my vibe gets across.)

Reading: Slight Town Lean

Question:

What do you think about RadiantCowbells?

This is an odd one to make as town. Would you (as town) post about your worry that someone could be very smart scum right now? In lylo, sure. This is the first I could see as openly scummy, but then I have liked elyse's posting.

Metalcyanide

– I was skeptic due to the attention he seemed to have obtained earlier in this day, but at seeing his recent posts, I’m liking them. I appreciated him giving concise reads about everyone so far, and I took his read on me as encouragement from him to explain my reads to you guys. Which is good for keeping the town together and getting useful information instead of just wagons and reactions.

Reading: Moderate Town Lean

Question:

Since you basically just did a read, what do you think about the people who have

not

responded? Also, what do you think about my reads?

The second real read. This is fair.

Aquanim

– I think out of everyone in this game Aquanim has been the most revealing in his actions, reads, and analysis’. He is yet to jump on others with a vote(something I kind of failed to do), and openly admits that he doesn’t know enough of someone to have a read on them and I like that. RCs argument against him seems to be very fluffy and lacking real substance. I do have doubts about what are his readings on the most active people so far, but he seems genuine. This is subject to change, especially since this is early in the game but Reading:

Moderate Town Lean

Question:

Do you have any specific opinions on me, so far?

I mean, this is a continuation of the read on RC, but same as before, this is fair.

InsidiousLemons

– I don’t know much about his reads, I do think he is genuine. He’s expressed at the very least polite opinions in and outside of game speak on the thread. I think being genuine is a good town trait, it gives others deeper insight to your emotions and thought processes. Other than this, I think the thoughts he has put on about peoples posts are so far useful in contributing to a case on someone. Reading:

Moderate Town Lean

Question:

Do you think posts coming from newer players are more likely to be defensive?

Especially in games like these where there is a lot more activity going on.

filler.


I think all of the questions are forced, just there because taly feels he should be asking questions. I don't think any of them could result in an answer that could get things going or expose something. I think only 3 of the reads in this list have any basis, of which 2 are connected. I think one of the reads posts is scummy. This post could have been two lines. "I don't like the way rc makes a case on aquanim, who has been very open and honest about his reads, or when he doesn't have them, which I like too. I have been liking metal cyanide in the recent posts as well. vote: RC". And those two sentences wouldn't have any of the forced commitment to the game feeling that this list post gave.

[mykonian]

EBWOP: Do you also read InsidiousLemons' list post (in #292) as scummy

a priori

?

yes.

Also pisskops pbpa, though you could see that as a catchup post if you feel like it. I wouldn't put it as harshly as the dude did, but that did further confirm that the dude is likely town.

[mykonian]

With regard to the thing around 176 with Taly voting and then unvoting Mykonian, I'm not sure that I'd describe it as "Taly unvoting Mykonian under pressure from Elyse" any more than "Taly got what he wanted from voting Mykonian and didn't get around to unvoting for a couple of posts".

Given that he's voting me now again, not the last. He didn't feel he could stick his vote there then. Because between the unvote and the recent revote by taly, I did very little.

[mykonian]

I don't think it's especially scummy though. I imagine if you go and read a town guide for newbies, one of the things it will say is "Ask people questions and try to get them talking about their reads". I suppose it'd be a while longer ago for you than for me, but I remember doing some pretty naive things in my first (and town) game.

I fondly remember my first game, I was scum. I replaced into a slot that had made a mess of it (yes, replacing in as a newbie wasn't allowed then either, but then, the listmod didn't really check and the mod of that game didn't really care and just needed a replacement, while I disliked waiting, so there I went. It was just d1 anyway). Anyway, the whole game I was under scruteny. I remember fondly how I made "cases" by simply going through someone's posts then naming everything I could find that was minorly scummy and got free towncred of it when the suspicion had been somewhat heavy recently again. And when people didn't know where I stood, I happily made a big awesome looking post with a read on every player with a short explanation. Life was good!

Till you come to the point that you see other people use such a shield of verbosity as well, and either they were law students, or scum (what's the difference? ). It's straight up the easiest way to win as scum, explaining

everything

you do. It's also quite simply the first thing you come up with as newbie scum. Either you panic and shut down, or you plan to "look town" and make sure you are "open and honest" about everything.

So yes, I'm quite aware, ty

[mykonian]

either way, to get back on track then, I'd take pbpe's or lists of reads esspecially early in the game as scummy then, having no contrary evidence that a player (taly in this case) just likes to do those.

I think coming under pressure and giving out a reads list comes from a townie part of the brain.

BS

[mykonian]

shut up aqua.

[mykonian]

It means that your last set of posts are more there for aqua than they are there for the game. It's not particulary relevant otherwise.

[mykonian]

It means that your last set of posts are more there for aqua than they are there for the game. It's not particulary relevant otherwise.

Is that coaching?

It's feigned polite annoyance.

[mykonian]

Neat!

That's two meh players gone in one go.

[mykonian]

Preview edit- Mykonian, don't start feeling yourself. I haven't been mislynched yet.

Oh dear, but not everything I post this game is about you <3.

And then Taly insists he's being genuine. And he softclaims. Softclaiming is a pet peeve of mine and I hate it so so much. It's also a scumtell. A newbtown like Taly would be more likely to blurt out his entire role as a last minute defense. Instead, he's holding his cards close to his chest and leaving an option to claim whatever he wants, but also claiming PR to make people scared of lynching him. He clearly thought about using it as a defense rather than it being a gut reaction. He's scum.

my thoughts exactly.

[mykonian]

is there anyone fun still here?

[mykonian]

lol RC.

Shouldn't you be dancing on someone's grave right now?

[mykonian]

It's true though, you should get a claim before shooting.

technicalities.

[mykonian]

tool, you'd make my day if you were still around.

[mykonian]

that's curious eektor.

5 posts ago you really disliked taly's posting. And your aqua read was solely based on him being a buddy of odd.

you seem confused.

[mykonian]

well, as of now, it's him or you

Take your pick, I guess?

[mykonian]

does it really matter, pisskop?

The important thing to take away from all of that is that he was working up to a claim. The eventual role name isn't even a tell anymore.

[mykonian]

I also see aqua pop up in the second or third place of a couple of lists now.

Lets not go there today. It's quite impractical.

[mykonian]

I thought the funniest thing was how rc didn't even mention he had been pushing that for days. Just called it bad that there hadn't been a claim. lol.

[mykonian]

Just because I scumread someone doesn't mean I want them dayvigged out of nowhere without a claim.

You are aware I'm mostly laughing at you?

[mykonian]

I mean it's not too hard to keep things people are saying straight that compiling rests is necessary.

exactly


Which is why there's a different reason to make them day 1. Either you just like to, or it's your crutch to get yourself talking about the game. IE, it's a habit or it's a scumtell.

[mykonian]

elyse, get better. I need someone to talk to. And tool is never here at the same time.

[mykonian]

yes, those are the most dangerous.

[mykonian]

It's not the ideas that are dangerous, it's the people.

[mykonian]

you don't get it. I think you are scum, you think I'm scum, that makes whatever discussion we are going to have rather obvious and frankly boring.

Elyse makes sensible posts, tool makes posts that I agree with, but not many. They fall squarily in the part of the town that could be buddying me, and since buddying is a thing it works, which makes people you like dangerous. You aren't going to consider them fairly, like I would with you, lemons, RC, etc.

Or in other words, they are people to have conversations with about reads. Either you find things or you find out something about your conversation partner.

[mykonian]

I'm here right now, mykonian.

I'm sorry, with the previous posts my eyes had already been closing. It had been well past midnight I didn't even see this.

I also don't get why you believe Lemons is dangerous, he's on the wagon voting against me as well.

That's because you aren't reading my posts, you are just taking the game as how people are responding to you. But the game isn't about you


Also, from experience, even considering a mafia dayvig is insane. You could stretch it to an SK but in a mini that's even seriously awkward. Piss is town or we'll find quick enough that he isn't. It's a waste of time to talk about it.

[mykonian]

Neat!

That's two meh players gone in one go.

Who's the second one?

odd and piss

I mean it's not too hard to keep things people are saying straight that compiling rests is necessary.

exactly


Which is why there's a different reason to make them day 1. Either you just like to, or it's your crutch to get yourself talking about the game. IE, it's a habit or it's a scumtell.

I don't either thing is happening here. I think Taly thought she was getting lynched and got her thoughts down. If you're a new player, you're town, and you don't want to get lynched, giving your thoughts is something that you will try. So is soft-claiming a pr. I'm reading Tally as panicking town, trying to avoid being lynched.

So you have to get into bends to connect "new player" to survivalism. Is omgusing elyse and me also just taly being new and panicking and trying to stay alive? Have you seen the amount of words he spends in effect about talking about things that concern himself?

Is it perhaps that he's scum, who don't want to die, who's primary focus is not

other

people, it's themselves.

And that works regardless of wether they are new or not.

[mykonian]

hmm. Well, it's probably sensible to do this specifically.

I'm vague in my wordings, that's half laziness, that's half seeing who's thinking along similar lines. Twice now Taly has assumed something was about him when that didn't make any sense. Last example is when I comment on the daykill (that's two meh reads gone or something like that). Taly takes that as meaning him, while I was thinking about the shooter (since dayvigs are likely town) and the shot player. It's just a mindset, the expectation that I should be talking about him.

Another thing is his explanation who should be dangerous to me. His view of lemon as clearly on my side is only because lemon is voting him. It doesn't enter his thoughts that someone might be worried about people buddying. He's just looking at who votes him and who doesn't.

It's just the entire mindset. Not just defensiveness, but a selfcentered look at the game.

[mykonian]

So are you saying because Taly's point of view is very seflcentered, that makes him scum?

yes, that's a general theory thing. Town would be more preoccupied with finding out about others, scum about protecting their place in the game.

And the posts on the last couple of pages are hardly the first time you can notice this, take for example his unvote of you somewhere on page 3.

[mykonian]

oh, it's scummy, doesn't mean town don't do it

the game isn't that easy!

[mykonian]

you suck

also not interested in posting today. It's late, I'm tired, the only reason I'm even reading this thread is because I'm too tired to move to my bed.

[mykonian]

I mean, I don't mind where this is going, but we all know he's just bad town after all.

cyanide goes in the pile of people I don't think are playing well, but I don't see as actively scummy. One of the reasons we see so many awkward posts from cyanide is because he makes a lot of them.

[mykonian]

I'll be sad if this day somehow doesn't end with a taly lynch.

[mykonian]

that's the day killer.

hmm. I see a pattern in your lynch choices.

[mykonian]

your number came up <3

[mykonian]

You know my opinion of RC. I think she's always a detriment to the town. I'm not going to try to understand her. Too dangerous for me, I'm not paid well enough to go down there.

[mykonian]

am I the only one disliking eektors last couple of posts?

[mykonian]

I hate how Mykonian attempts to dodge around the question of what I'm doing.

Don't worry, I don't like playing with you either.

[mykonian]

Though I'm a little confused as to why you are expecting to be run up to L-1 and what it means that you haven't been.

because he tends to get lynched for his playstyle.

[mykonian]

I've never heard of a day SK and a mafia vig is OP in a mini.

I guess I can talk about this more.

I've made a game which had a mafia dayvig. I tried to balance that. It was a large, the scumteam had 2 players. Town lost without having a chance. It's completely ridiculous.

A day SK is not unheard of in a large, but then, usually will be allowed to kill via pm. Killing in the open is a mechanism that gets dayvigs killed for the confirmation that they are the role (which is strong). A day SK already gets a power, probably wouldn't get anything else. Or in other words, he wouldn't be nk immune, it's been common wisdom (but not used everywhere) to leave the SK something to be scared of. In this case, it makes no sense to have that kill in the open, an SK can't afford to just get shot for one kill.

Or in other words, just assume piss is town. He's going to be in 90% of the cases, easily. And even if he isn't, we'll find out soon enough.

[mykonian]

because he tends to get lynched for his playstyle.

Maybe. You could read through the games and decide for yourself.

I notice you're not addressing my scumread on you.

because I'm in the same boat, more or less?

My playstyle gets me voted. There's little to say about that.

Have you seen the number of players here being annoyed because I don't speak out about everything I think?

[mykonian]

I mean, I don't mind where this is going,

>> but we all know he's just bad town after all. <<

...

I don't know that at all. Why do you know that?

This was a serious question, Mykonian, though perhaps expressed poorly.

Why are you so sure that Metalcyanide is town, and furthermore that it's so obvious other people should be able to see it?

ok, I put it a bit strongly, but I'm seeing cyanide being voted for being cyanide. I mean, I see where people are coming from, it looks dodgy, but it doesn't do him favors regardless of his allignment. So idk, it looks like a typical day 1 mislynch, if you ask me. That kind of players get weeded out early, usually.

[mykonian]

tool, what do you of eektors play last week?

[mykonian]

basically from when he came back from V/LA, which is around piss's kill.

[mykonian]

What do you think of his play since he came back from V/LA, mykonian?

It's less in your face, but I agree, there's been entire series of posts that are posts but don't actually add anything. I don't like his reaction to the daykill. His early game was worse, first 3 pages he was a prime candidate for a taly partner (which we can talk about if taly actually flips scum). Later on that gets less obvious as well. Basically it looks like someone who settled in a little.

I do not like that slot.

[mykonian]

I'm past the point where I should post, so feel free to skip this.

but you know these school textbooks that highlight the keywords that you are supposed to learn for the test? Like, they have text, something is

bolded

, then maybe in the sideline or in the next sentence this concept is covered. So whenever I'm glossing over a post (and tbf, that's how I start reading every post. Check what vote there's in there, looking for key sentences, then reading it entirely. Just something that works for me.). Either way, this becomes very interesting when glossing over taly's posts. I'm not quite sure what she's trying to achieve with all the text effects, but it's high school powerpoint tier posting. It's all shiny and the message is hidden in there somewhere but you actually need to make an effort to find it. And that's in a system that's there to convey small bits of information quickly.

on top of that, the words that get the effects are the words a lawyer or a politician would put emphasis on. It's rhetoric... which makes the entire message unreadable anyway. So my eye gets dragged there because I expect some key information, I get the sentence after the text effect, see it was a shouting adjective and I'm basically already pissed off because he's using an eyesore because he thinks it'll influence his audiance. That's what rhetoric is after all.

So regardless of his allignment I don't get it. I don't understand what he's thinking he's achieving. Even he has to notice that amongst this entire town he's not being heard.

[mykonian]

What I took away from the back and forth between Taly and tool:

I'm waiting...

hahahaha

[mykonian]

838 and 839

...Can't tell if I'm being made fun of, or people are sarcastically pitying me.

Just think you missed the joke. Nothing too malicious.

[mykonian]

I'm not terribly interested in a cyanide lynch.

vote eektor

would have my support.

There are some other wagons I could possibly get behind, but I don't feel like talking about them because they are all worse than the activity eektor has shown. Compromising when I don't really have to yet isn't very productive.

I fear I was rather coasting towards the end of this day to reread overnight with taly's flip to get some new inspiration. Today it's not going to work, I spend half the day in the kitchen and I'm pretty braindead (but I have soup!). That Taly actually flipped rb is surprising to me, that role doesn't get given to town often.

[mykonian]

who cares

[mykonian]

can't I recruit you for eektor?

[mykonian]

Because he's been very noncommittal, hell, he doesn't even have his vote down at this point, nor did he when we were figuring out taly or metal. And that's been like that all game.

[mykonian]

I'm glad it makes sense to you

<3

[mykonian]

If you don't engage with the game you're next to be lynched.

I'm engaging plenty.

Just not with you.

Which is for a good reason seen this page. You can barely sort yourself out, how should I do it?

You two can happily go to night and I'll have a look at who scum is going to kill. Could be fun.

[mykonian]

now, to business, can we lynch eektor or are you all really hellbent on defaulting on metal now the direct competitor is gone?

[mykonian]

maybe, maybe not. Depends on if Metal turns out to be scum, I guess. But I don't think so, and in that case I don't think scum really could be bothered where they'd end up. Town could take the responsibility for the mislynch, etc.

So no, I'm actually pretty happy looking for the scum in the pool of people who did nothing with their vote.

[mykonian]

I dont.

I think its like this, since the votes on him are for cyanide tells as far as I can see.

[mykonian]

Metalcyanide didn't commit to either of the two wagons of the day, even though he was one of them: he did not vote for Taly, despite it being in his own best interest self-preservation-wise to do so.

...

As far as I'm concerned the most likely explanation for MC not voting Taly is that he is scum, knew that Taly was town, and wanted to avoid responsibility for Taly's mislynch.

Sentence one explains why cyanide would be absolved of responsibility, sentence two somehow states that he's scummy because he doesn't want the responsibility.
Sentence one describes how voting taly would make sense for scum (they tend to be big about self preservation).

So the logic you are trying to put together that something

odd

is scummy is awkward. I'm not denying that it's odd, but I think that might be because cyanide is an odd guy, because for sure your logic doesn't actually explain his actions.

[mykonian]

In fact, there isn't any good reason I can see why he didn't.

Bingo. This is the heart of your case. You don't understand his action, and after that you are bending yourself in all kinds of shapes to explain it as being scum. Just look how many words and circumstances you need to make that into a scumread. You can analyse your own logic easily enough.

And again, I'm not doubting that cyanides actions are inexplicable. This is just one example as well. Doesn't mean he's scum per sé. Just means he approaches the game differently than you and I. I'm not terribly interested in lynching someone for that, esspecially when there are better options (plural)

[mykonian]

Without explaining what makes it illogical.

I did. You didn't catch it somehow. I even put it in a very small post.

otoh, you could also argue for yourself that 1+1=3 and be utterly convinced you are right.

[mykonian]

which is what rc is doing, btw.

1+1=3.

[mykonian]

Metalcyanide didn't commit to either of the two wagons of the day, even though he was one of them: he did not vote for Taly, despite it being in his own best interest self-preservation-wise to do so.

...

As far as I'm concerned the most likely explanation for MC not voting Taly is that he is scum, knew that Taly was town, and wanted to avoid responsibility for Taly's mislynch.

Sentence one explains why cyanide would be absolved of responsibility, sentence two somehow states that he's scummy because he doesn't want the responsibility.
Sentence one describes how voting taly would make sense for scum (they tend to be big about self preservation).

So the logic you are trying to put together that something

odd

is scummy is awkward. I'm not denying that it's odd, but I think that might be because cyanide is an odd guy, because for sure your logic doesn't actually explain his actions.

Did too.

[mykonian]

Which is why I'm posting how you have already convinced yourself. That's not an explanation, that's restating the theory that post was about. It is flawed, but you can't see.

Or in other words, this whole discussion has served little use, apart from making you annoyed.

[mykonian]

dont think thats the measure before lylo.

[mykonian]

RC I'll respond to that after I get a response to this, who is taking RC's claim as legit?

*raises hand*

[mykonian]

I guess we shouldn't discount the possibility that RC felt he didn't get the attention he deserved and fakeclaimed.

But then, that's something the scum can figure out tonight

[mykonian]

yes, I would, really. If you did indeed fake it, tonight could be amazing when somehow that saves piss's ass. If you didn't, but they don't dare to pull the trigger on you, we get a night result from a cop.

I'm perfectly happy with laying the problem of figuring out what the fuck is going on her at the scum's feet. They are the ones that could mess up this situation, I don't have to

[mykonian]

mind shutting up for a couple of days, RC?

I could support IL.

[mykonian]

You're really going to regret that. I was going to give you a pass until you pulled that shit.

Stuff like this has nothing to do with this game RC.

stop stamping your feet and let the grownups play the game.

[mykonian]

do you think I'm playing to my win con or not

Not even close. You are playing for your person, little else.

[mykonian]

vote eektor

[mykonian]

Boon, IL, or The Dude.

no, yes, very much no.

[mykonian]

Why not TheDudeAbides? I don't think you've mentioned him at all

he's one of my earlier townreads. I've seen nothing that changes that opinion yet.

[mykonian]

All your doing at this point is annoying people and in the 0.0000000000001% chance you are right noone will care because you pissed us off.

just skip his posts like a sensible person.

[mykonian]

All your doing at this point is annoying people and in the 0.0000000000001% chance you are right noone will care because you pissed us off.

just skip his posts like a sensible person.

I have been at this point but i do have to at least skim to ensure there isn't something usable there. RC is still the one I want lynched today but I don't see it happening.

there are worse policy lynches on MS.

[mykonian]

you are using an automated votecounter, don't you.

[mykonian]

I'd actually have to dig for that, there were two things that nagged me about IL, amongst other stuff which seemed town. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow, 90% sure I posted about it.

[mykonian]

I'd actually have to dig for that, there were two things that nagged me about IL, amongst other stuff which seemed town. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow, 90% sure I posted about it.

Hmm, I have lemons as a scumread at that point, lets see if I can retrace what post made me think that. (rereading, he was the first person to talk about dude and my claim being fake. That's a small blemish, really. But i'd expect scum to make such a post more easily. Something to keep in mind)

EBWOP: Do you also read InsidiousLemons' list post (in #292) as scummy

a priori

?

yes.

[mykonian]

vote lemons

I guess.

[mykonian]

I find these points far less convincing than my arguments

I am not surprised.

[mykonian]

Do you want to pretend to do something useful for town, or are you just going to laze around and take potshots?

Think I've said everything I wanted to say so far. No need to clutter the thread repeating what I already said.

[mykonian]

I hate this part where I get cold feet too - but I'm not in for an eektor or Insidious lynch today, I wouldn't get the votes for Mykonian, and lynching Boonskiies would be giving up. I'm not lynching either of the claimed town PRs today. Does anyone have a case for TheDudeAbides?

I'm open to any lynch at this point. I would join a mykonian wagon if one were to form. I don't have a TheDude case though.

curious timing, dear.

[mykonian]

because that's not scummy.

[mykonian]

because that's not scummy.

Really? Not taking part in any discussion and probably not fully reading what’s going on isn’t scummy?

is this the question game?
do you enjoy rhetorical questions?

[mykonian]

I have to say I'd probably consider eektor a little more harshly if Mykonian hadn't tried to push for his lynch. Pre-flip association is terrible... but seductive.

boy, you are going to make this game hard for yourself

[mykonian]

My scumread that I pushed harder than you ever worked for metal is dead. My e-peen is doing pretty well, ty.

[mykonian]

It's a bit cheap to characterise me as someone who's more concerned with townread when you are pushing someone who's trying their damnest to get themselves lynched.

[mykonian]

Last time I explained this to you, you clenched your fists, got tears in your eyes and wanted to talk with other more fun people Remember, metal being weird, but how it wasn't scummy?

That part.

[mykonian]

I'll also note that Mykonian seems to

know

I'm town. I'm probably not the best judge of this - does anyone think that is an unreasonable position for him to hold if he's town?

I assume you to be one.

I kind of want to but I don't think there'd be six votes for Mykonian and trying to switch at this stage feels like it'd be inviting a no-lynch. I'll be sorrier if Metal's town than I would be if we lynched Mykonian and he flipped town but...

But this post gets hilarious in that context. I love hypocrites.

[mykonian]

2 and 3, I think.

[mykonian]

This is making sense to me right now. Does anybody have a good reason why we should lynch today instead?

town shots at least have a chance of hitting scum. Nightkills don't. The more town shots you get in, the likelier you are to win.

Your worst case only looks better because you look over limited time, in the end you actually get in a worse situation because scum gained a kill overall.

[mykonian]

that's one awkward quote.

Either way, I'm not entirely happy with how many people are directing pisskop and how much he talked about his shot in thread. That's his part of the game, I have no clue why so many people are trying to get scum to know more.

[mykonian]

Add metal jumping on any wagon he can to reasons he's on the scumpile. He should be pushing his strongest scumread but he's willing to lynch basically anyone except IL which is weird as hell and if he flips scum IL could be his buddy. As a VT, metal's behavior seems a little off.

I hear you.

I could hammer. Not as if it really changes anything, I guess. Metal is pretty locked in as far as I can see.

[mykonian]

oh, your tantrum was quite real, don't worry. You don't go "unless someone else wants to talk to me, I'm done for now" if you are perfectly calm still

Even in the same go as when you push me, you are already admitting you do it moreso because you are annoyed by me than because you think I'm scum.

Tantrum seems like a perfectly applicable word, actually. Ty for mentioning it.

[mykonian]

oh, totally

(to both of you)

[mykonian]

Well, if you still don't want to talk about that, I think I've adequately made my point.

Well, we went over it again, ended up on the same result. I've tried to explain the difference between scumminess and weird, you find ways to convince yourself weird is scummy. Of course it's not going anywhere, argument doesn't change with what the feelings of others are.

Only one way to find out, isn't there?

vote metal

I'm saying I hammered town. Still think he's scum?

[mykonian]

aww bummer, there go my style points.

the lynch you tried to push instead had the argument that... "IL made a listpost".

You'll appreciate it in a couple of years

[mykonian]

I'm less convinced he's gonna flip scum than I was a few days ago

heh, already backing out?

lol.

Tomorrow you are going to say you know all along, I guess?

anyway, I'm on in 2 hours anyway.

vote IL

[mykonian]

Mykonian could be walking away from this argument, in which he's pissing off one of his townreads and inciting me to come after him, and yet he's not.

I can't really see a reason why he'd be doing this if he's town unless I inflict some serious slurs on his character. If he's scum, on the other hand, I imagine he'd be quite happy trying to make me look like an angry child or what have you.

Eh, you aren't that special. Look what I said about RC this game. It's not because I think he's scum. I can deal with people I think are scum, I vote them.

[mykonian]

oh, I wouldn't want to compare you to RC, that'd be unfair. That wasn't the message there.

Opinions differ about moderately skilled. It's also where your annoyance comes from.

[mykonian]

nah, that was my bad, I promised to be there, I wasn't. What can I say, previous night had been awefully short.

[mykonian]

I think we should be voting for pisskop's second shot here, put deadline at a week from now between us.

Despite last couple of posts, still lemons is a possibility for me. Cooled down on eektor during the night. Metal is... a bit of a sad choice, I feel.

[mykonian]

it isn't, they are explanations why he was absent.

[mykonian]

I'm sorry guys, I find myself to be busy. Friday and into this weekend I should have time to dive in again, do some rereading.

[mykonian]

It was what I expected from how he approached the night. It didn't sound like he had made his call at all yet, given how that went.

[mykonian]

So fun story.

I'm a one-shot vig. Not 2 shot.

oh bummer.

You could have pulled this off, I think. Let us talk, see no decision (which we won't, since we don't get stuff working easily), say you are going to shoot at night after all, "scum can't stop you, can they?", and take the bullet as a glorified VT.

[mykonian]

I'm still where I got yesterday. It's all one big boiling pot with pretty much everybody in it and I am second guessing every read I have apart from 3ish townreads which is really awkward.

So, eh, yeah. Tomorrow it's friday, should be able to invest some time to get some line in my thoughts.

[mykonian]

the annoying thing is that towards the end of yesterday and today, eektor has been posting sensibly.

[mykonian]

We need to lynch to find scum, not to find information.

VOTE: metalcyanide

Forgot to vote. I still think he's scum from yesterday.

I want to quote elyse too.

[mykonian]

OK. The reason I was asking was because I was wondering of the scumteam might have seen that RC was going to investigate mykonian, and killed RC instead of pisskop because they didn't want the cop getting a guilty. But given the number of people who say they found it likely RC was just posturing, I don't think this amounts to much. Just wanted to ask around to see if there was anything there.


OK. The reason I was asking was because I was wondering of the scumteam might have seen that RC was going to investigate mykonian, and killed RC instead of pisskop because they didn't want the cop getting a guilty. But given the number of people who say they found it likely RC was just posturing, I don't think this amounts to much.

Just wanted to ask around to see if there was anything there.

Bolded part stands out to me.

[mykonian]

OK. The reason I was asking was because I was wondering of the scumteam might have seen that RC was going to investigate mykonian, and killed RC instead of pisskop because they didn't want the cop getting a guilty. But given the number of people who say they found it likely RC was just posturing, I don't think this amounts to much.

Just wanted to ask around to see if there was anything there.

Bolded part stands out to me.

Why does only the bolded part stick out to you?

The rest is where it belongs.

He explains his hypothesis, explains his test, shows his result, comes to a conclusion.

then adds the bolded part. The rest is a perfectly rigid way of dealing with theories, the whole package, I don't understand why a motive starting with the word "just" is placed after that. It's out of place.

[mykonian]

the annoying thing is that towards the end of yesterday and today, eektor has been posting sensibly.

Which posts in particular are you looking at and calling sensible from eektor? Especially posts from today, though I want to see both.

Spoiler: too long

UNVOTE:

I don't think me tunneling IL is helping this game. Hopefully, IL's replacement is more active.

I don't think the push on Boon is a good one. To me lynching him would be a policy lynch and I don't think his flip would give us any useful information.

I believe pisskop and Aquanim are town and I'm leaning town on Metal.

TDA is in a similar spot to Boon, in that he hasn't been that active and his flip wouldn't give much information.

I'll be looking more into Elyse, mykonian and tools. Moreso Elyse and mykonian as I feel their flip would give the most information.

Alright.

My target is Mykonian.

Keep in mind that chances of a RB on scum side are quite low.

Good luck.

Didn't notice this before. Anybody who has experience with RC, is RC the kind of player who would announce his investigation target just to mess with scum, then investigate somebody else during the night?

From my last game with RC, she likes to manipulate people's actions with her words. So, even if she said who she was going to investigate, I wouldn't be surprised if she checked someone else.

@pisskop I don't like how a lot of people are forcing you to kill whoever they decide. I think it would be best if people just give you a suggestion on who to shoot and then you decide on your own what to do.

Is it just me or is Boon just following everything that RC says and does? It makes me wonder if he is scum trying to latch onto an aggressive townie.

Why do you think RC is town?

@Boon What makes you so sure RC is town or is right in his reads?

Oh, so you don't think RC is town.

RC's playstyle is similar to what I've seen when he was town in the last game. Also, I don't know why scum would create a counterwagon on metal when Taly was up for being lynched and when Taly claimed to be a PR.

I do think RC is town, but I was asking Boons to see why he thinks RC is town and really why he was sheeping RC. Just because I think RC is town, doesn't mean I agree with her reads and will sheep her votes.

On Eek

9 is scummy
23 is town
57 is too cautious for my taste
97 is associations Metal/IL. Also Id wager town
278 is meh reads
373 RC and Eek. Would scumeek ignore RC?
539 is town
664 is something I agree with


Eek reads as townier than many But I would like an update on this:

If you flipped town, I would think one of either Elyse or mykonian is scum and I'll be leaning towards mykonian. Another one would probably be Insidious Lemons and the 3rd is a toss up. About your prior claims and cases, I don't agree with both Elyse or mykonian as being scum buddies but now I see you are switching to mykonian and tools. I'm not sure about tools, but I could probably check him for a possible 3rd mafia. Now, how much help have you been to town. I'll give you one thing, your flip can provide us a lot of information about multiple players, but if you are a town power role that got lynched in the first day without using your powers ... I think its just a waste of a town power role.

If you flip scum, your reads won't be invalid but useful to find your buddies. If you flipped scum, I think Aquanim and Boons could be your buddies.

I still think there is at least one (probably 2) on Taly's wagon. I think one of either Elyse or mykonian is scum, but I can't really decide which one is more scummy. Elyse quickly votes for metal saying its the most informative lynch. I really think we should be focusing on finding scum on Taly's wagon instead of going for the "most informative" lynch. Then mykonian also doesn't pay attention to the people on Taly's wagon and tries to find interest in getting me lynched. It took him a while to vote for me, though.

The reason why I voted for IL is he has been shady all game I think and I think his vote on Taly was pretty low key and he did mention he wasn't sure that Taly was scum, but once Taly claimed he kept his vote on Taly like the claim made him want to keep his vote on Taly.

Other thoughts, I think RC is town, as well as pisskop. I'm starting to think Aquanim is town too. I'm wondering if Boon could be scum.

[mykonian]

ok, rereading.

I think it's stupid to lynch boon.
I should have been more careful about the dude. I don't like him now I reread.
Don't want to lynch cyanide, IL still looks shifty.

Issue is that dude-IL scumteam doesn't make sense. We are likely looking at 3 since this is a mini, tool or elyse is likely sitting in my blind spot. Curious game, not enough scum.

vote the dude.

[mykonian]

other possible person sitting in a blind spot is aqua, I guess.

[mykonian]

How is metal still alive after the blatant contradictions and lies he's made

I don't get it

because it's easy enough to make a coherent story if that's your goal.

contradictions so rarely get you anywhere.

[mykonian]

Town. On it's own, I find post 282 stood out as a very town post. After that, the way the wagons form and reasons why the votes on him appear are the way mislynches form.

Like, so

vt

claiming like that is just silly, not scummy. But it's good at getting you attention and votes. Despite it just being a game, it's easy to form a mob.

[mykonian]

MC's vote is a bit strange. Not really seeing that.

This was what you said about #282 at the time.

It's not the vote, it's the paranoia that bases it. That's hard to fake as scum if you don't know people are looking out for it. Cyanide is too new to see that as a towntell.

Otoh, I did not want to lynch RC, esspecially not on gut feeling which will always be off with him.


I don't have to agree with someone to think they are town.

[mykonian]

also, dearest mod, I won't have any access over easter. Apologies!

[mykonian]

Scum:
Metal: opinion seems divided on him, and I can tell why. Not sure what to make of this one.

now this looks confused.

[mykonian]

And Mykonian wanders in to... throw crap at someone scumreading Metal! Suprise, suprise!

it's not even throwing crap in this case. It's a post with a couple of reads with short sentences accompanied.

Metal is under scum, it has the observation that bella doesn't understand how others aren't scumreading him, then she doesn't know what to make of him.

The only read of her own in there is the implied one that metal is obvious scum.

It's the one read I want to ask after, yes. The rest I get more or less even if I disagree.


I mean, I read the post after now, I am not surprised that people would be scumreading me. I'm dropping half thoughts and reads into the thread, some of my opinions run contrary to the town, I'm a stubborn guy by nature. That stuff gets gut scum reads. Which is what bella posts about, which is what a couple other people in the game have alluded to.

That happens every game. The difference per game is how people deal with it.

[mykonian]

Mykonian why have you defended me so much? You seem to be the only one.

don't like the way the wagon forms.

[mykonian]

@aqua: I suspect the second, the first I've surprisingly done recently for once.

[mykonian]

because I'm having mixed feelings about you as well. I can start with the easy ones.

[mykonian]

I think it's stupid to lynch boon.

Why? And do you think he's not worth pushing? Because I'm kind of leaning in that direction.

Boons main crime is that he's not posting.

His predecessor did.

[mykonian]

hmm, don't recall tool did.

[mykonian]

Actually, I can say that better in more words.

Aeronaut wasn't widely suspected. Boon is quickly moving to the position of default lynch. The only thing that changed to that slot is that a new player came in who doesn't post. The whole case is "he doesn't post". It's shortsighted to judge that slot on just boon, which I guess is a better word than "stupid", but then, language isn't my strongest side.

On top of that it doesn't smell like scum lurking. If that's what's going on, the dude, tool, lemons are players that come to mind as options.

[mykonian]

The most likely reason for this is that Boonskiies is Mykonian's scumbuddy, and that having come up with a reason to "eliminate" him from the pool (a reason which only applies to today's lynch, at best, in fact) Mykonian felt able to ignore him in his process-of-elimination, even though this does not actually make any sense from a town perspective.

That's wonderfully creative, aqua.

[mykonian]

I think I've posted three seperate things why I'm doubtful such a lynch will have success by now.

Now, look at it from the other side. Suppose I was his buddy, I could do three things. I could shut up about it and hope he lurks it out. I could bus my buddy. I could hardcore defend a lurker.

Which do you see happen?

I think "wonderfully creative" is as good as you are going to get, aqua.

[mykonian]

This isn't even a reason to townread Boonskiies.

it is to me

[mykonian]

@Town

: If you're not voting Mykonian with your next post I want to know why.

Curious thing, shifting the onus of proof. In real life it's obvious, here in practical nature it hides that the wagon is based on gut feeling and little else. But one votes and more follow. Case? There isn't any. It's a collection of things that don't "feel right", interactions that are strange to you. And the funniest part is that if you'll actually force people to come with reasons, everybody will have their personal ones.

I mean, for testing purposes you could give it a go and see if I actually got it right, but it's not really the point.


I think dude asked me about my interaction with RC. I've put enough words in boon and metal lately anyway. And it suits me in this light to talk about RC anyway.

Now at the start of the game I had some rememberance of RC, don't even know if I played with him or read games with him. Regardless, early on that memory got quite reinforced. RC is a detriment to his team and the game as a whole. He's not looking to work together and is quite aggressive in that. I don't believe pages filled with argumentation between two or three people get anywhere. Usually it just rehashes the same arguments anyway and people get more mad with each other, making the argument more about emotion than anything.

Then there's the issue that this annoys me. Now, just like with people arguing, that doesn't make me read the opposite party any better. I'd be inclined to call such a person scum. Don't want to though, for one, RC doesn't live long anyway because of his play, and for second, if he was scum, playing the way he did, he'd go over the top somewhere "leading the town to their doom". So I don't want to lynch him, on the other hand I know he's not helpful. Gotten that far, I stopped acknowledging him and only spoke about his person anymore, that part of the game could wait two or three days. I wasn't going to put a stamp on his allignment at that point, and reading him and arguing with him would likely make my chances worse than actually letting it go and playing with other people.

Not that it helped anything, in the end. Still think it was the proper course. I know I'm going into self meta here, but imagine I'd have taken the same vitriol and put it in actual arguments against RC, what do you think would have happened to the game?

[mykonian]

Does he seriously think Mykonian is that unaware of what he would do as town when he rolls scum?

That's one you can test on meta, 90% sure.

They don't match.

[mykonian]

In short, I think that Mykonian's read of Boonskiies is extremely suspect.

ok, rereading.

I think it's stupid to lynch boon.
I should have been more careful about the dude. I don't like him now I reread.
Don't want to lynch cyanide, IL still looks shifty.

Issue is that dude-IL scumteam doesn't make sense. We are likely looking at 3 since this is a mini, tool or elyse is likely sitting in my blind spot. Curious game, not enough scum.

vote the dude.

other possible person sitting in a blind spot is aqua, I guess.

First, he states that it is stupid to lynch Boonskiies. There is an argument to be made for this, along the lines of "we are better off lynching a slot we can know is scum rather than a coinflip". That's a reasonable point to make, though I'm not sure I agree - but it is NOT a reason to TOWNREAD Boonskiies. I do not think a reason to strongly townread Boonskiies exists in this game. It also presumably only applies to today's lynch - if Boonskiies is scum, which is quite possible, we can't just never lynch him if we want to win.

In the final part of this post Mykonian applies process-of-elimination to determine that Toolenduso, Elyse or myself must be mafia.

But he has not actually eliminated Boonskiies

. I do not think there is any possible way for Mykonian, as town, to come to the conclusion that Boonskiies is certainly town and that therefore one of Tool, Elyse or myself must be mafia.

The most likely reason for this is that Boonskiies is Mykonian's scumbuddy, and that having come up with a reason to "eliminate" him from the pool (a reason which only applies to today's lynch, at best, in fact) Mykonian felt able to ignore him in his process-of-elimination, even though this does not actually make any sense from a town perspective.

It is also possible, though less likely, that Boonskiies is town and that Mykonian was just lazy. I do find it hard to believe that Mykonian would rule out so juicy a mislynch as Boonskiies though.

I see no way that Mykonian can have come to this conclusion as town. It simply doesn't make any sense for a townie to hard townread Boonskiies here.

---//---

I also think Metalcyanide is scum but there is the outside possibility that Mykonian is white-knighting him. One way or another, given the certainty which Mykonian has displayed towards the slot despite paltry evidence, Mykonian either knows certainly Metal is town or is pushing all-in to try to avoid a Metal lynch.

I think I would prefer to lynch Mykonian today

but given the trouble we've had actually putting together the votes for a lynch consolidation on Metal may be safer.

Spoiler: Regarding Metaltown and Lemonscum

Given the way the Metalcyanide and InsidiousLemons wagons formed at the end of day 1, with a Metal wagon remaining from before Taly's flip and then an Insidious wagon forming in response - I do not think that InsidiousLemons scum and Metalcyanide town is a feasible theory. This is a votecount representative of the end of day 1:

INSIDIOUSLEMONS [5]: eektor,

pisskop

, TheDudeAbides, mykonian, Metalcyanide
METALCYANIDE [4]: Aquanim, Boonskiies, Elyse, Toolenduso
MYKONIAN [1]:

RadiantCowbells

NOT VOTING [1]: InsidiousLemons

If InsidiousLemons is mafia and Metalcyanide is town, who are the scumbuddies of InsidiousLemons who are trying to save him?

Furthermore, knowing that I am town and my historical ability to force a lynch through, I do not believe that if InsidiousLemons is mafia and Metalcyanide is town I failed to achieve a Metalcyanide lynch. I almost have a hard time believing Metal can be town at all given that.

I also don't think Mykonian's reasons for townreading Metal are sufficient to explain how strongly he has defended Metal.

Town. On it's own, I find post 282 stood out as a very town post. After that, the way the wagons form and reasons why the votes on him appear are the way mislynches form.

Like, so

vt

claiming like that is just silly, not scummy. But it's good at getting you attention and votes. Despite it just being a game, it's easy to form a mob.

Problems with this post:
- I see no way in which #282 was a town post at all. This was the post in which Metal claimed (entirely without basis) that a RadiantCowbells lynch would provide the most information, and said some meandering stuff that didn't really accomplish anything to Taly.
- Nobody is lynching Metalcyanide because he claimed VT.
- No explanation of why the Metal wagon looked like a mislynch wagon, and I also believe this simply isn't true. I pushed it against the town-Taly wagon and met significant resistance. The way the InsidiousLemons wagon assembled in response seems to be to be quite likely to be at least partially a scum response, whether it is a town wagon or a bus on inactive scum.

eh, your case currently is that I don't want to vote boon because I'm his buddy. I wish you good luck proving that one.

[mykonian]

aaand I didn't think I had quoted that whole post. Lovely.

"The most likely reason for this is that Boonskiies is Mykonian's scumbuddy, and that having come up with a reason to "eliminate" him from the pool (a reason which only applies to today's lynch, at best, in fact) Mykonian felt able to ignore him in his process-of-elimination, even though this does not actually make any sense from a town perspective."

was the key sentence I needed from it.

[mykonian]

don't think too much, it makes your head hurt.

[mykonian]

so... you don't think I'm thinking that you are scum, despite that I do.

what response is there apart from me thinking you shouldn't be thinking so much?

[mykonian]

I'm not quite sure how you took the last bit on your own, you aren't closely related to tool/elyse.

Also, easter! Won't have any internet in the coming days guys, sorry!

[mykonian]

I have just returned home, read the last page, seems there's little left to do with an extension and no counterwagon.

I suspect it's not worth the effort to quickly read everything.

[mykonian]

You don't have to wait for the deadline. Nothing else important is happening.

vote mykonian

[mykonian]

eh, we were waiting out the day, only counterwagon was formed "because we needed a counterwagon", there was nothing left to be said.

wasn't worth reenacting day 1.

[mykonian]

EBWOP: Flaming a small fraction of the town players, and then calling the town team a clusterfuck, may seem incongruous. Remember that between the vig shot and the modkill, we would have had barely enough lynches (possibly not enough) to policy lynch everyone in that pile. We're *stuck* with them, and it only takes one stupid town player at LYLO to lose the game.

You were at the center of this town. You had more than average say in who got lynched. But the posts here complain about people you dislike, and how you didn't win.

I'm very sorry aqua, but all that doesn't fit together. If you want to win and you are in the position to call the lynches,

go find the scum

. Elyse will always play as elyse, RC will play as RC, I will be myko.

You can't complain about scum's competency and how other people suck when you were basically at the center of this town.


And then, you complain about how RC can't learn from his mistakes. I see very little self criticism from you here either. Given how this town needed very little push from the scum to implode, I daresay there's not a single townie here who shouldn't be looking at what went wrong here.