Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[TheDudeAbides]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

[TheDudeAbides]

I think he is gauging for reactions, but I can see people may think this.

Anyway, I associate the word 'eek'-tor to scream, and scream to fear, and fear to mafia because mafia wants you to be afraid because they can kill you. - Conspiracy theory.

VOTE: eektor

ANYWAYS, hi everyone. Looking forward to this game, and hi odd. Seems like we are both in two games together.

specifically the first line is both overexplaining and noncommittal, both things I consider scummy.

Really? I mean what would be a terser way of putting it, and what should she be committing to?

[TheDudeAbides]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

Is this supposed to be an RVS vote?

Well we are out of RVS so I'm going to unvote

UNVOTE:

Nope. but are you telling me that you know he's town?

[TheDudeAbides]

After two people told metalcyanide to stop bringing us back to RVS, why would you slap down an RVS vote?

I think the whole "bringing us back to RVS" business is bogus. I mean the game is going to progress regardless.

[TheDudeAbides]

What's the point of unvoting? Same to you Taly and metalcyanide.

None, I could have left it there and still said sorry but it was a nothing vote so I unvoted. Hell even the sorry was just an olive branch that I think some scum are using as a weapon.

Post by Elyse » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:33 pm

@Metal
How many games have you played onsite?

2 games. I played in one full game that just completed and replaced into one that is ongoing but died quickly in.

This is town. I've pushed hard enough.
UNVOTE:

This is unbelievable.

I probably didn't need to push that Metal wagon as hard as I did.

What are you thinking of here?

[TheDudeAbides]

I was waiting for you to claim 'reaction test'

Why would he need to do that?

[TheDudeAbides]

Eelyse and metalcyanide are okay.

Vote: InsidiousLemons

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm going to keep doing that. I'm sorry.

Oh god no.

quote="In post 139, Aquanim"]Are you telling me that you think he's scum?[/quote]
He's not out of the woods.

why didn't you contribute to progressing the game at that stage?

I'd only skimmed the thread and I decided that I was going to do that before the game even started.

[TheDudeAbides]

If he was interested in or thought there could be a list of roles, there's no way that doesn't come up in the scum thread, and the fact that he asked about it, at that moment shows that he's trying to figure out what's going on.

[TheDudeAbides]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

Is this supposed to be an RVS vote?

Well we are out of RVS so I'm going to unvote

UNVOTE:

Nope. but are you telling me that you know he's town?

That's a pretty big misrep and no I don't think he's town. So why did you take your vote off him, if you know he's scum?

How did I mis-rep you? I asked you a question.
Why did you assume that my claim was bs? I mean it was, but why did you assume that.

[TheDudeAbides]

You voted me, which theoretically means that you think I'm scum, but when I vote you back your first response is that I'm "coming up with random reasons to scumread" you, not that I'm defensive scum which implies that you think I'm town, but you have me voted which means otherwise.

For page 7 of a game, I don't really think that it's out of the ordinary. There's usually a default assumption of town and even if he's scum reading you, so early in a game, it's not unlikely that he'd still default to that.

[TheDudeAbides]

The waffling point is okay still.

[TheDudeAbides]

I kind of agree with odd in 153 that this is a very fast paced game(which I don't think is bad), but I would say he was overreacting in a sense which could be scum or town reaction, I think the current wagon is very valid, but I wouldn't just base someone as scum off of them losing their head for a moment, unless it was consistent and less explained.

I really don't understand how post 124 was to be seen as scum mykonian, I was openly receptive for people to ask questions to try and see a better side of me because they were obviously unsure since they didn't know that much. I want people to ask questions because it seems town-motivated to for the questioning, and questioned to realize the side of the other, and both to understand information to know what to do to press forward. Also, I agree with Aquanim in post 144 - you haven't given any reasons for any of your reads as far as I've seen and even when answered in post 149 you didn't even elaborate on top of that. Other than this, I haven't seen many posts from you indicating a lot of insight, or at the very least, town-motivated thoughts.

VOTE: mykonian

Additionally, I'll listen to Elyse if she is going to digress on why she still wants to vote for eektor. I'd like to hear it

@Elyse ^^ Question above

So is Myk a scum read or just a not-town read?

[TheDudeAbides]

I really don't understand how post 124 was to be seen as scum mykonian, I was openly receptive for people to ask questions

Actually, I can easily explain what's bothering me with this post, and in a similar way, post 124.

Asking people to ask you questions, esspecially at this early point of the game is a defense mechanism. Explaining what you did and why you did things tends to put people at ease. Since scum hasn't really bothered to make any moves, they haven't been in tight spots yet (hey, we just finished the RVS), this is "easy". Which is wrong with this post and post 124.

The second thing that is very wrong with this post in particular is the emphasis on "openly". This is a given when you are town. The emphasis doesn't make half as much sense when you are town (you are open anyway), but makes more sense from a scum mindset "I can still be honest about my gameplay so far, there's nothing to find".


So the way I see it, Taly is a prime candidate for scum.

I think you got me backwards, I think the more people understand about what you're trying to achieve gives them more insight instead of just waiting for people to slip up, and then go on about votes with little reasoning behind it.

I'm honest about how things are going because I'm trying to get on page with others in terms of what people are thinking, and how something would affect the town. I can see where you're coming from, but I think the idea of 'I can still be honest so theres nothing to find' to be an instantly scum-motivated mindset just makes me think you're rendering the ability for people to freely communicate their analysis and opinion because you think their putting up a front, instead of actually trying to get something done.

Furthermore, I never said I was being honest because "there would be nothing to find," I'm being a upfront with people on this so they can see my thought process, and it would be easier to collaborate and get better and less contrived input.

I appreciate your explanation, but it seems to me this type of explanation seems threatening to you, do you think people who are trying to make a bold effort in finding people are the ones who are the most scummy in themselves? I think this can be seen as both scum and town depending on what you see, but I don't think that is a useful reason to pin at someone, when they've made it clear of what their intentions are.

Well, could you summarize what you were trying to achieve with this post? What I see is some soft blathering and then an attack that I don't really understand.

[TheDudeAbides]

I wouldn't even mind an Aquinas lynch right now
...

I'm going to assume you're talking about me despite your mangling of my name - is this for any actual reason besides that I disagree with you?

Don't think I haven't noticed your Oddmusic vote was an OMGUS, either.

Because you're the kind of player who makes sure town loses, regardless of faction.

Consider it a policy lynch.

Because you're the kind of player who makes sure town loses, regardless of faction.

Consider it a policy lynch.

I've never lost a town game on this site, and I've never been endgamed by scum here or elsewhere in around 8 games.

That being said, you're going to have to justify this statement. Now.

Every minute you don't have a reason, you become less believable, RadiantCowbells. The clock is ticking.

I'm not going to justify anything to you.

VOTE: Aquanim

This is probably the best D1 lynch.

I would lynch RC for this.

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm finished page 9. Will catch up. Probably tomorrow.

I don't like Eektor's responses to being questioned and I don't like that I don't understand how RC's policy vote of Aqua evolved into a scum vote of Aqua.

[TheDudeAbides]

You just jumped from

1) A lurker.

to

2) The person who the town player who has been strongest is already on.

These are rather safe picks, no?

How are you evaluating the strongest player (Eelyse)?
Do you think that she is wrong?
Why do you think that she is town?

I dislike Taly's insistence that he's being open and honest, and his unvote under pressure.
I think that IL looks better than he did.

Unvote.

[TheDudeAbides]

Taly's 259 seems town motivated.

[TheDudeAbides]

Aquanim's voting shenanigans, post 5
RC's vote on the mod, post 8
Myko's odd non-rvs, post 14
RC's vote on Taly, post 30
Votes Metal, just as naked as Taly, Post 59. -Describes logic in 31 for Taly
TheDudeAbides, post 64, making RVS.
'fake' L-1 from IL, post 69

as in, I could explain why I dislike eektor's posts as of now, but it's small stuff and it might just be eektor being eektor. I'm in no rush

Actual post is quoted.

Aero post 85, FOS: Metal.
Eek, post 93, explains well his unvote
101, IL and Elyse timing and his 'jumping off the wagon'.
121, Tool's case on Taly, featuring the unusually walled 113
126, Taly. Now that its mentioned, Taly's posts got real thick real qiuck.
136, TDA, says his own case is silly, and votes IL citing his jumpoff of Metal
143 Myko, 'I think I'm voting someone town'.
151, eek. Says they want to pursue 'a lie' about TDA's 'RVS' vote
156 Odd. Waffle

this is a very fast paced game

Vote also on Myko; for seemingly as vague reasons as Myko's claim on Taly

178 by Taly noted
180 is myko refusing to participate

. I just thought mykonian was a good candidate to push to see if he wasn't town

196, Cowbells on Aquanim. Uses his attack on her read on Odd as a basis. ???
206, IL comments on Aero randomly
212, Aero places out

Radiant, I'm sorry, it's late, I'm not thinking very critically right now. At some point soon would you mind consolidating your thoughts on Aqua into one post? This janky argument style is hard for me to keep up with right now.

What does this mean indeed.

231 Elyse on Taly.
233 Tool Reads

Is that what you wanted to know?.... I'm feeling pretty crappy at the moment.

This is lynchable

253 is metal being bothersome to me
255 Aquanim on his-Aero-case.
258 Taly-dichotomy-Myko
259 Taly readlist
260 Tool list

Just get in here when you can and give us some reads.

Can we get a read list form you? Who are your top three?

Okay.
IL, Myko, TDA are probably my top three.

So what are people's opinions on TDA?

This is fake content.

[TheDudeAbides]

I mean, just compare Taly and IL's lists.

[TheDudeAbides]

What changed?

Never contribute to malice what is better explained by stupidity.

When did you make this decision?

[TheDudeAbides]

On you? you're not even necessarily a scumread

Could you say a few words about how your read evolved?

[TheDudeAbides]

either way, to get back on track then, I'd take pbpe's or lists of reads esspecially early in the game as scummy then, having no contrary evidence that a player (taly in this case) just likes to do those.

I think coming under pressure and giving out a reads list comes from a townie part of the brain.

[TheDudeAbides]

RC is freakin' town as hell.

Why is this?

[TheDudeAbides]

either way, to get back on track then, I'd take pbpe's or lists of reads esspecially early in the game as scummy then, having no contrary evidence that a player (taly in this case) just likes to do those.

I think coming under pressure and giving out a reads list comes from a townie part of the brain.

I think it comes from a scummy part of the brain. You should explain your reads without pressure from others.

At this stage of the game, that's not really relevant.

[TheDudeAbides]

I mean it's not too hard to keep things people are saying straight that compiling rests is necessary.

[TheDudeAbides]

either way, to get back on track then, I'd take pbpe's or lists of reads esspecially early in the game as scummy then, having no contrary evidence that a player (taly in this case) just likes to do those.

I think coming under pressure and giving out a reads list comes from a townie part of the brain.

BS

I think you're wrong.

[TheDudeAbides]

Why would you defensively try to provoke a vote on you?
. That reads as daring somebody to call your bluff.

This just looks unbelievable - it's like scum caught for the wrong reasons gone berserk.

[TheDudeAbides]

Okay, Aqua. You certainly have an enigmatic playstyle.

How did I mis-rep you? I asked you a question.
Why did you assume that my claim was bs? I mean it was, but why did you assume that.

Why did you assume that my claim was bs? I mean it was, but why did you assume that.

Why did you make that claim?

Hi, TDA. Could you answer some questions people ask you? I know I'm not the only one. why did you make the claim?

Because I wanted to, and decided to before the game. I even decided I'd say it about Myk before the game, so law dee daa

[TheDudeAbides]

I should be able to mostly catch up in 13 hours.

[TheDudeAbides]

TDA stated an opinion, not asked a question.

304 was my notes sans most of my own alignment reads. A list of potentially noteable interactions and associations that will be more useful after today. I believe in pre-flip alignmnets insofar as deciding who will provide the most information, and I don't like keeping notes with reads in them. When I'm inevitably wrong its harder to trace a real connection if I'm biased recording them.

Weird, so you don't have reads in mind when you are reading? You're thinking about who to lynch based on information?
Where are your notes where you keep track of your thoughts on people's alignments?

That is pretty risky strategy for day one.

What makes you think this?

Well, Pisskop is town.

Eelyse is still town.

Neat!

That's two meh players gone in one go.

Who's the second one?

Myk looks alright on page 22.

I mean it's not too hard to keep things people are saying straight that compiling rests is necessary.

exactly


Which is why there's a different reason to make them day 1. Either you just like to, or it's your crutch to get yourself talking about the game. IE, it's a habit or it's a scumtell.

I don't either thing is happening here. I think Taly thought she was getting lynched and got her thoughts down. If you're a new player, you're town, and you don't want to get lynched, giving your thoughts is something that you will try. So is soft-claiming a pr. I'm reading Tally as panicking town, trying to avoid being lynched.

Why would you defensively try to provoke a vote on you?
. That reads as daring somebody to call your bluff.

This just looks unbelievable - it's like scum caught for the wrong reasons gone berserk.

What?

I just don't think I've ever seen scum do this.

Because I wanted to, and decided to before the game. I even decided I'd say it about Myk before the game, so law dee daa

That's not a reason, especially if you are pressuring somebody on calling such a weakass claim.
Okay. That's a poor justification to push somebody for. Its a weakass claim. You are not a new player, so I'm unsure how you thought it wouldn't be called out.

I don't think I ever said that.

Up to page 24. Hopefully, I'll have time later.

[TheDudeAbides]

Then I could have saved Odd from death..

Why would you have done this?

IF he took me up on my prompt, and shot me
1) That would give people incentive to question and get him to answer and give info.
2) That would give everyone incentive to policy lynch him(Especially if he shot me and it showed I was town right there in my death)
3) He would no longer have the ability to shoot anyone else, so he wouldn't be able to be prompted to shoot anyone else again.
4) It would have brought the idea that he was a mafia day-shooter, to be more likely.

IF he DIDN'T shoot me
1) It proves he is most likely being truthful about his responses.
2) It also proves that he IS in fact a Town PR.
3) It also keeps me alive and able to have this lovely conversation we are having together, tool. <3
4) He exposes himself with vulnerability by not shooting and responding simultaneously, which seems like a genuine town trait.

this is nuts.

So The Dude and Taly have both dared people to go after them, can't say I've seen 2 people in the same game do that before.

where did I dare someone to go after me?

@TDA, specifically: In #552, did you mean "lists" instead of "rests"?

yes

Shallow townread on Boon for acting the way I remember him acting when he replaced into a town slot in the puppy-themed newbie I modded.

Have you seen him as scum?

I literally can't bridge the gaps in reasoning that led to his recent actions, so I'm going to go with scum for now.

What has he done?

Not game related content.

That was my impression.

Also, from experience, even considering a mafia dayvig is insane. You could stretch it to an SK but in a mini that's even seriously awkward.

Mafia day-vig is probably more common than day sk?
In a mini-normal, either would use the one unique role rule to get in, I guess? I don't really care to check now.

So you have to get into bends to connect "new player" to survivalism. Is omgusing elyse and me also just taly being new and panicking and trying to stay alive? Have you seen the amount of words he spends in effect about talking about things that concern himself?

Is it perhaps that he's scum, who don't want to die, who's primary focus is not other people, it's themselves.

It's just that everything you're describing is exactly what expect to see from new-town that's trying.
- Scum are trying to lynch me.
- Maybe there's a mafia vig.
- I'm trying to be open.

I'm not thinking of it as survivalism, but more as a desire to not be kicked out of the game.

I wouldn't call myself as panicky

I wouldn't expect you to.

[TheDudeAbides]

Hey Metal, I read your ISO trying to figure out where you explained that RC was a better information lynch than everyone else. I couldn't find it. Indulge me and explain.


Also,

What makes him my hard scum read is that he pushed on such a weak read and attempted to put me L-1 so early. When I looked at the votes I thought he was going for a reaction test so I didn't call him on it but after he admitted to it not being any type of test I considered it a scum move.

What do you think was the scum motivation here?

RC makes me nervous, I don't really like the push on Odd then the switch over to Aqua. I see this as the best D1 lynch right now and the flip, either way, would provide us with the most information.

What is the more information? Even early on you were going on about this.

Taly has a lot of UtE

UtE is AtE?

Hang on a second here -- RC, you weren't being serious about that claim were you? Because I read it as just being a bit of silliness, but then metal comes in here acting like it's a real claim and you don't refute him.

I don't know people's real names so I assumed it was a real claim but I didn't know who RC checked (all under the assumption this was real). I take all claims seriously, so if RC wants to continue to screw around 1 week in to this game, I see no reason to keep him alive

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

You've looked like scum to me this whole game and that fake claim seals it for me.

So it's a policy lynch, a scum lynch and an information lynch?

The claim thing was pretty clearly a joke. The information you've never justified.

I don't have you on my radar as scum

What changed? He was in your top 4.

[TheDudeAbides]

Tonight, tonight

[TheDudeAbides]

I know how you feel.

@TDA
What is your read on Aquanim?

He seems fine to me.

[TheDudeAbides]

@TDA, specifically: In #552, did you mean "lists" instead of "rests"?

yes

Then I'm confused. Because in that post you said:

I mean it's not too hard to keep things people are saying straight that compiling rests is necessary.

But earlier in the game you said:

I think coming under pressure and giving out a reads list comes from a townie part of the brain.

Care to explain?

Just because something isn't necessary doesn't mean that it's not townie.

What's your point?

[TheDudeAbides]

[quote="In post 697
Care to explain?

Would like to see a lot of what TDA posts explained.[/quote]
What's that?

[TheDudeAbides]

I'

v

e been swamped all day at work I'll be on la

t

er. Quick skim I saw some questions I'll address them as best I can

Let's not fake soft claim.

VOTE: Metal

Answer the question on who I was going to vote for?

Where did this come from?

[TheDudeAbides]

Taly lynch is not in the cards for me.

I'm on the fence about you and willing to support a Pisskop lynch, but that's about it right now.

Rc is still scum

[TheDudeAbides]

Is it just me or is Boon just following everything that RC says and does? It makes me wonder if he is scum trying to latch onto an aggressive townie.

Why do you think RC is town?

[TheDudeAbides]

@Boon What makes you so sure RC is town or is right in his reads?

Oh, so you don't think RC is town.

[TheDudeAbides]

I'll try to finish later today.

[TheDudeAbides]

am I the only one disliking eektors last couple of posts?

No

[TheDudeAbides]

RC seems better on page 31 than he did earlier. The fear over pisskop being an SK comes across as genuine, even though I think it's nuts.

[TheDudeAbides]

Yes, as a matter of principle.

Really?
I mean some of them are bound to be right.
Where is this thought coming from?

[TheDudeAbides]

I don't think answering this question before your flip helps town, and could in fact help scum. Suffice to say, I have some ideas.

What were they?

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm sick of Taly's self-centered/woe is me/entitled approach to the game.

Let's lynch him.

Why do you think this is a scum approach to the game?

[TheDudeAbides]

@eektor, pisskop, TDA

Why aren't you voting anyone?

I haven't been caught up in a long time.
I'm hoping to rectify that within the next 5 hours.

[TheDudeAbides]

I really disliked Aqua's push on Metal, but his post on IL was very nice and well timed, so I'm fine with him.

I think that metal's desire to lynch RC, the claimed cop, is bad. To me it shows that he's not trying to sort people.

Like, I know Pisskop is scum just based on setup.

i don't get this.
Town-RB is not too strong until the end of the game.
2 shot vig is swingy more than powerful.

I've seen townies with some resemblance to you fakeclaim redchecks on townies before (offsite).

Even when they are actually cops?

I do think RC is town, but I was asking Boons to see why he thinks RC is town and really why he was sheeping RC. Just because I think RC is town, doesn't mean I agree with her reads and will sheep her votes.

ok

[TheDudeAbides]

I would not lynch pisskop or RadiantCowbells.
I'm happy with aqua and Eelyse.
I don't think Tool or Myk would be good lynches, though I don't have strong reads on either of them.

I think Metal could easily be scum, but I'll need to review that. He's been a subject of a lot of discussion. To me his failure to note that RC is a cop is bad.

I remember not feeling good about Eektor, but I also didn't feel bad about his recent posts.
I didn't remember anything about IL until his name came up recently. I'll look at him again.
I really don't remember anything about Boonskies/Aeronaut.

I'm going to refresh my memory about these last three now.

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm pretty sure that we should lynch Metal or Boonskiies.
And they are cross-voting.
So that's great.

[TheDudeAbides]

I forgot, but we shouldn't lynch Metal because of the business about him thinking that there could have been a role list for the game.

[TheDudeAbides]

Vote: Boonskiies

[TheDudeAbides]

I kind of want to lynch TheDudeAbides just for that.

I'm sorry you want to lynch someone I think is town, but I guess that's life.

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm sick of Taly's self-centered/woe is me/entitled approach to the game.

Let's lynch him.

Why do you think this is a scum approach to the game?

I don't.

As far as not voting metal for not knowing a potential role list - he's shown again and again he is unfamiliar with normal mechanics and I don't see it as more likely to come from either alignment.

That is absolutely something that is talked about in the scum qt.

[TheDudeAbides]

No biters on Boon?
I will be on again before the dead line and I'll move my vote if necessary with a preference of IL over Eektor

[TheDudeAbides]

I won't be able to get back tonight.

Vote: IL

[TheDudeAbides]

The Dude Abides.
I will read now.

[TheDudeAbides]

Didn't notice this before. Anybody who has experience with RC, is RC the kind of player who would announce his investigation target just to mess with scum, then investigate somebody else during the night?

What is the relevance of this?

[TheDudeAbides]

What are people's impression of Boons? He is in the game, after all.

I would have lynched him yesterday.

[TheDudeAbides]

Speculation on such things isnt going to yield fruit.

We need suspects. Not what-ifs.

I still like boon, hasn't said anything and he sheeped RC

Why are either of these at all reasons to like boon?

And also, IL, you've caught up? What are your thoughts? Id still like to lynch you.

WTF?! LOL, and he's voting me?

VOTE: Metal

Blatant, obvious contradicion? I must be missing something here.

Granted, I understand he probably means he still likes the idea of lynching me.

and I would still lynch him today.

[TheDudeAbides]

I still think that pisskop is town.

Mod: I am going to be V/LA until Tuesday, but I will hopefully have some time tomorrow and Monday.

[TheDudeAbides]

So, The Dude Abides, in the last 5 posts you did the following:
-Said you were here
-Asked for clarification on a question
-Said you want to lynch Boon (twice)
-Said Pisskop is town
-Went on V/LA

Thanks for all the help.

I don't understand why you are trying to undermine me when we agree on most things.

Also, I believe Tool is trying to find out who RC was going to investigate had he not been the nk

Yep, and I want to know why.

[TheDudeAbides]

Aqua, you know I'm an alt. How come you haven't mentioned it in the thread?

[TheDudeAbides]

Eelyse, could you bullet your case on metal?

[TheDudeAbides]

I never said we didn't agree on these things. I'm just kinda annoyed the conversation has come to stand still and was hoping for something new, sorry

It really makes more sense for you to try to work with me than to try to alienate me.

Aqua, you know I'm an alt. How come you haven't mentioned it in the thread?

It didn't seem relevant. I'd almost entirely forgotten finding out, for that matter. I don't know who you're an alt of.

You don't think that people would read me differently depending on what they perceive my experience to be?

[TheDudeAbides]

I never said we didn't agree on these things. I'm just kinda annoyed the conversation has come to stand still and was hoping for something new, sorry

It really makes more sense for you to try to work with me than to try to alienate me.

Aqua, you know I'm an alt. How come you haven't mentioned it in the thread?

It didn't seem relevant. I'd almost entirely forgotten finding out, for that matter. I don't know who you're an alt of.

You don't think that people would read me differently depending on what they perceive my experience to be?

If you thought being an alt was important, why didn't you mention it earlier? Who is your main?

I won't be answering who my main is.
As for the first question, I'm actually more interested in Aqua's response, which was fine, than anything.

1st part yes it does make more sense to work with you.
2nd part you using an alt makes 0 difference to me personally

1st part, well then why didn't you?
2nd part, it should.

I should have been more careful about the dude. I don't like him now I reread.

That's a shame.

Issue is that dude-IL scumteam doesn't make sense.

Well, since I'm town that is certainly true, but why do you think that it's a reasonable set of criteria to be using at all?

Where did this come from? Like, why ask this all of a sudden?

Aqua indicated awhile ago that he knew I was an alt - the post where he put something in spoilers. I planned to ask him about it at some point since then. This seemed like a good moment.

Am I the only one who finds this reaction weird? I mean, why get this mad at somebody you think is scum? For that matter, why get this mad at anyone simply for being inactive?

Myk is just lecturing his buddy.

Eelyse, could you bullet your case on metal?

Sure.

At first I townread metal for not knowing that the game wasn't open, but then he immediately believed that RC was an "adorable cop" or something ridiculous like that. I feel like scum are more likely to believe a townie's claim no matter what because they know the person is town and probably isn't lying. Him showing no skepticism whatsoever was very strange. So I think his ignorance wrt to general setup and roles is either a wash or leans scum.
Other things:
-votes RC for a "joke", but keeps vote there after realizing it was a joke
-calls tool, eektor, and myself lurkers, showing he's not actually that involved in the game
-wanted to lynch an un-CC'd cop Day 1
-willing to lynch anyone as a VT except for IL
-lots of complaining about there being no conversation, but not starting one himself
-misreps me by saying I am advocating we ignore Boon, then tries to pass it off as a reaction test

I agree that his arguments are nuts.

What you did was misrep me, get called out on it, and pretend it was a reaction test. It clearly wasn't one and anyone on a 1st grade reading level can see that.

Metal tell me about the test, what you found townie about the responses, what you were thinking when you did it.

Well I think I'm pretty much done here, if I'm lynched good game scum nice win because I don't see town figuring anything out.

eh, I think that this sort of frustration is coming from town.

As scum I would think his scum buddies would help him out.

Nah.

I don't really like aqua's push on Eeh p. 59.

Myk: this is mostly gut, I don't like a lot of his pushes.

Which ones? I mean he is voting me.

Metal: opinion seems divided on him, and I can tell why. Not sure what to make of this one.
Dude: not much content, can't get a handle on this slot.

Then why are these scum reads?

Mykonian why have you defended me so much? You seem to be the only one.

:_(

In short, I think that Mykonian's read of Boonskiies is extremely suspect.

ok, rereading.

I think it's stupid to lynch boon.
I should have been more careful about the dude. I don't like him now I reread.
Don't want to lynch cyanide, IL still looks shifty.

Issue is that dude-IL scumteam doesn't make sense. We are likely looking at 3 since this is a mini, tool or elyse is likely sitting in my blind spot. Curious game, not enough scum.

vote the dude.

other possible person sitting in a blind spot is aqua, I guess.

First, he states that it is stupid to lynch Boonskiies. There is an argument to be made for this, along the lines of "we are better off lynching a slot we can know is scum rather than a coinflip". That's a reasonable point to make, though I'm not sure I agree - but it is NOT a reason to TOWNREAD Boonskiies. I do not think a reason to strongly townread Boonskiies exists in this game. It also presumably only applies to today's lynch - if Boonskiies is scum, which is quite possible, we can't just never lynch him if we want to win.

In the final part of this post Mykonian applies process-of-elimination to determine that Toolenduso, Elyse or myself must be mafia.

But he has not actually eliminated Boonskiies

. I do not think there is any possible way for Mykonian, as town, to come to the conclusion that Boonskiies is certainly town and that therefore one of Tool, Elyse or myself must be mafia.

The most likely reason for this is that Boonskiies is Mykonian's scumbuddy, and that having come up with a reason to "eliminate" him from the pool (a reason which only applies to today's lynch, at best, in fact) Mykonian felt able to ignore him in his process-of-elimination, even though this does not actually make any sense from a town perspective.

It is also possible, though less likely, that Boonskiies is town and that Mykonian was just lazy. I do find it hard to believe that Mykonian would rule out so juicy a mislynch as Boonskiies though.

I see no way that Mykonian can have come to this conclusion as town. It simply doesn't make any sense for a townie to hard townread Boonskiies here.

---//---

I also think Metalcyanide is scum but there is the outside possibility that Mykonian is white-knighting him. One way or another, given the certainty which Mykonian has displayed towards the slot despite paltry evidence, Mykonian either knows certainly Metal is town or is pushing all-in to try to avoid a Metal lynch.

I think I would prefer to lynch Mykonian today

but given the trouble we've had actually putting together the votes for a lynch consolidation on Metal may be safer.

Spoiler: Regarding Metaltown and Lemonscum

Given the way the Metalcyanide and InsidiousLemons wagons formed at the end of day 1, with a Metal wagon remaining from before Taly's flip and then an Insidious wagon forming in response - I do not think that InsidiousLemons scum and Metalcyanide town is a feasible theory. This is a votecount representative of the end of day 1:

INSIDIOUSLEMONS [5]: eektor,

pisskop

, TheDudeAbides, mykonian, Metalcyanide
METALCYANIDE [4]: Aquanim, Boonskiies, Elyse, Toolenduso
MYKONIAN [1]:

RadiantCowbells

NOT VOTING [1]: InsidiousLemons

If InsidiousLemons is mafia and Metalcyanide is town, who are the scumbuddies of InsidiousLemons who are trying to save him?

Furthermore, knowing that I am town and my historical ability to force a lynch through, I do not believe that if InsidiousLemons is mafia and Metalcyanide is town I failed to achieve a Metalcyanide lynch. I almost have a hard time believing Metal can be town at all given that.

I also don't think Mykonian's reasons for townreading Metal are sufficient to explain how strongly he has defended Metal.

Town. On it's own, I find post 282 stood out as a very town post. After that, the way the wagons form and reasons why the votes on him appear are the way mislynches form.

Like, so

vt

claiming like that is just silly, not scummy. But it's good at getting you attention and votes. Despite it just being a game, it's easy to form a mob.

Problems with this post:
- I see no way in which #282 was a town post at all. This was the post in which Metal claimed (entirely without basis) that a RadiantCowbells lynch would provide the most information, and said some meandering stuff that didn't really accomplish anything to Taly.
- Nobody is lynching Metalcyanide because he claimed VT.
- No explanation of why the Metal wagon looked like a mislynch wagon, and I also believe this simply isn't true. I pushed it against the town-Taly wagon and met significant resistance. The way the InsidiousLemons wagon assembled in response seems to be to be quite likely to be at least partially a scum response, whether it is a town wagon or a bus on inactive scum.

I take back everything negative that I ever said about aqua.

Aquanim - yeah, scum scum. only twice, though. tool is 3 times.

Weird.
What am I missing?

[TheDudeAbides]

Vote: Myk

[TheDudeAbides]

My could you say a few words about your Boon/Aero read?
I'm also a bit curious about your RC read from day one.

[TheDudeAbides]

I meant that to be addressed to Myk.
Autocorrect dropped the k.

[TheDudeAbides]

Dude's 1554 makes me suspicious.

That's nice to know.
Why don't you read it, since I asked you something in there.

[TheDudeAbides]

I don't think that Myk thinks that I'm scum.

[TheDudeAbides]

That was your invitation to say something about it

======[]
[]======

[TheDudeAbides]

I also am wary of how quickly the wagon built on mykonian.

Quick wagons are awesome.
What you should be looking at is Myk's response to the wagon.

[TheDudeAbides]

I feel like town Myk would have explained his read on me, especially after being prompted.

[TheDudeAbides]

Aqua's pushing for a mislynch on Myko, and then he's setting it up where he can make it an 'honest' mistake, and then push a mislynch on me.

What gave you this impression?

[TheDudeAbides]

Bell,

What don't you like about Myk backing away from Eek? It seems like you should be okay with that.

What do you mean by weirdness around metal?

[TheDudeAbides]

Mod: V/LA until Monday

[TheDudeAbides]

Hey got the prod. I've been reading but having had much to say about anything.

You could talk about the things that I asked you.

Because, as I said, it feels like he's looking around, zero-ing in on someone and then moving off if he can't get much going. It's not a comment on Eek, it's a comment on the 'unstickiness' of his reads.

Why do you think that this is scummy?

My hesitance to lynch mykonian stems from my early townread on him. He and I had very similar thought processes and he would say things that were on my mind. This either comes from a town mindset or an adept scum mindset. Not to say that mykonian isn't skilled, but it's hard to fake.

which thoughts?

[TheDudeAbides]

Happy

[TheDudeAbides]

When you say wary what do you mean? Cause with the way I use it, your sentence doesn't make much sense. I mean we should no longer be concerned about Myko, but be dancing on his grave.

I also had a question for you.

[TheDudeAbides]

I think Bella and TDA would be the most likely to be scum on that wagon

Why?

Because their reasons for joining the wagon is more suspect than the other 2 (you and metal).

This doesn't cut it.

eek's sudden push of me, when his vote came after mine sets my alarm bells ringing.

Your's seems to have come after Eek's. Isn't that right?

[TheDudeAbides]

I think we should no lynch today, but that it shouldn't happen quickly. I'll need the time to re-read.

I still don't think that Metal looks like scum. See this page for example. I just don't see scum doing any of that.

Aqua - you figured out that metal voting Eelyse is probably suicide, but you still think that he's doing it as scum?

For the people voting Metal, who do you think his buddies are?

[TheDudeAbides]

. . . ^ voting metal or who think that he's scum . . .

[TheDudeAbides]

Eektor

- could you tell me what you found fake in the exchange between IL and Metal.

[TheDudeAbides]

If Aqua, Elyse and Metalcyanide are all town, then the scum team is probably Bella, Boon and one of Eektor and Tool. It's certainly 3 of the 4 and I don't think Tool and Eektor are buddies.

SO far I've reread 10 pages and I haven't managed to rule out anything particularly interesting - the people I think are town have had better interactions with others, but since I think they are town anyway, that doesn't help me all that much.

[TheDudeAbides]

...but how can I let this post live?

It's a bizarre post. I mean I don't think that town has given up on the game, so I don't think that post really jives with what is going on, and the bit about everyone voting who they want it is silly, but I don't think that the post is scummy. I'd expect scum to say something a little more thoughtful than everyone vote who they want.

About Eelyse's case on MC:

The best points:
- Wanting to lynch an un-CC'd cop day one. This is simply something that is inherently anti-town enough that it is scummy.
- Claiming that the comment about Eelyse was a reaction test. I just reread it and I have a hard time believing that MC's telling the truth.

I think that MC believing the cute cop, pushing the policy lynch on RC (pre-hard claim), calling out Eeylse as a lurker and his hypocrisy aren't scummy.

I don't really understand that point about MC's unwillingness to lynch IL. Unless it's meant as a buddy tell.

never really going back and forth with people

I think that I have gone back and forth with people.
I certainly tried to go back and forth the Myk.

Eektor

- could you tell me what you found fake in the exchange between IL and Metal.

The exchange didn't make sense, it doesn't seem natural. I don't know how to explain it more than that.

The problem is that you were town reading metal at the end of it, and
reading IL, so this isn't specific enough.

Also Eektor, see my 1684.

My read on tool is similar to my read on myko and I was right about that. I also have experience with tool and this feels like his town self.

Do you have experience with him, when he's scum?

[TheDudeAbides]

I just re-read the exchange between Elyse and Metal again. Here is the problem that I have with metal scum.

If Metal is scum, that means that he fabricated a case on Elyse, when he saw that it wasn't going well for him, since it was wrong, he stopped, backtracked and claimed to have made up the case. Then knowing that is how things would go if he pushed Elyse, he decided to vote her today.

I don't think that this makes any sense from scum when he could have simply stuck with his town read on her.

[TheDudeAbides]

Aquanim, what games are you using for meta on Eelyse and tool?

[TheDudeAbides]

Prod dodge.
Tomorrow.

[TheDudeAbides]

I think that MC believing the cute cop ... (isn't) scummy.

Why not?

Well, I don't think that there is any validity to Eelyse's argument - I doubt that there is any reason to think that scum are more likely to believe a crazy claim than a townie, and on top of that, I think that MC's explanation is reasonable - that he played on a site where sometimes standard roles have funny names or something like that.

Why do you think that it's scummy.

if that was tVs I know who I'd be lookinh at.

What does this mean?

But how does this mkae sense as town, either?

I don't think that it matters. The point is that he would not have done it as scum, and townies will do pretty much anything.

Then you say I must be scum because you are acting different than in the newbie game we were scum together and I'm still scum-reading you? Well, shouldn't you be acting different in this game if you were scum when I knew you were scum in the other game?

Could you explain this using about 3 times as many words?

Anyway, I don't think that these meta arguments hold much water. There's just not enough data.

I think Bella and TDA would be the most likely to be scum on that wagon

Why?

Because their reasons for joining the wagon is more suspect than the other 2 (you and metal).

This doesn't cut it.

Would you agree with me that there is at least one scum in the myko wagon?

This isn't a reasonable response, even if there is scum on the Myko wagon.

As to whether there is scum on it or not, I'd bet that there was scum on the wagon, but I wouldn't bet that there is more scum on the wagon minus mike than in any other randomly selected group of players.

I've re-read his interactions with Taly, which look way too...invested for him to be scum

Have you ever used this sort of reasoning before?

I am fine with lynching Boon today.

Scum team is Boon/metal and {Bella, eektor} most likely with TDA as an outside possibility.

Your going to have to stop just throwing me into lists and justify your suspicion of me.

I still think that we should no lynch today.

[TheDudeAbides]

Where do you think that Bella said that Eektor must be scum because Bella is acting differently? That makes no sense at all.

[TheDudeAbides]

Then Bella said eektor must be scum because Bella is acting different than in the newbie game where Bella and eektor were scum together and eektor is still scum reading Bella? Well shouldn't Bella be acting different in this game if Bella were scum when eektor knew Bell was scum in the other game?

This entire thing makes no sense on so many levels.

[TheDudeAbides]

Anyways, I am having serious doubts about you. All you have done today is ask questions and not contribute any reads or even thoughts about the alignment of people in the game. It is like you are sitting back waiting for a wagon to form and then you are ready to join the one you like. You are either a completely clueless town which I find hard to believe since you said you are an alt and you have a main, or you're just scum trying to bide your time to join the wagon you like.

I think that we should no lynch today.
I've certainly given thoughts and reads.
How does me being an alt have anything to do with me being clueless?

[TheDudeAbides]

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm happier town-reading tool is that he is again highlighting eektor as being scummy. While his push on eek rung alarm bells for me when I replaced in, I think he's got some good points.

Also, I've just won a scum-game with eek as my buddy in the newbie queue where my activity/posts were nothing like this, but he's still scum-reading me?

I'd be happy with a metal/eek lynch today.

(If Aqua and Elyse are scum together, they have done a brilliant job and we should probably give up )

I think Bella's reasoning is terrible, but I don't think that she means what you think she means.

[TheDudeAbides]

Plenty of experienced players are clueless, but anyway, why do you think that I am clueless?

[TheDudeAbides]

Anyway, one of the reasons I'm happier town-reading tool is that he is again highlighting eektor as being scummy. While his push on eek rung alarm bells for me when I replaced in, I think he's got some good points.

Also, I've just won a scum-game with eek as my buddy in the newbie queue where my activity/posts were nothing like this, but he's still scum-reading me?

I'd be happy with a metal/eek lynch today.

(If Aqua and Elyse are scum together, they have done a brilliant job and we should probably give up )

I think Bella's reasoning is terrible, but I don't think that she means what you think she means.

That is her main arguement for scum reading me. Look how she went from leaning town on me and then after I was pushing her, then she switched to scum reading me.

Also, that is one of her arguements for town reading tool.

I see now. I don't know what threw me off.

Anyway, I think that people need to stop using one game's worth of meta try reading people.

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm pretty sure I know who will die at night

What if you are wrong?

[TheDudeAbides]

So what are your thoughts or reads in the game? If you had to vote right now, who would be the people you would want to vote for?

I think that the most likely scum are Boon and Bella.

[TheDudeAbides]

Yes, I got that eventually. I agree that it's terrible.

[TheDudeAbides]

I'm pretty sure I know who will die at night

What if you are wrong?

If I'm wrong, that would be great because it eliminates one of the person that I'm not so sure about.

This is why we should no lynch.

[TheDudeAbides]

So what are your thoughts or reads in the game? If you had to vote right now, who would be the people you would want to vote for?

I think that the most likely scum are Boon and Bella.

What about tool? Do you see anything scummy there? Or is it just Boon and Bella that are more obvious scum?

I have some town reads: Aqua, Eelyse, Metal. That leaves Boon, Bella, you and tool. I don't think that Tool and you are scum together.
POE says that the most likely scum is Boon or Bella.

[TheDudeAbides]

So what are your thoughts or reads in the game? If you had to vote right now, who would be the people you would want to vote for?

Plenty of experienced players are clueless, but anyway, why do you think that I am clueless?

Actually I'm starting to think you are scum. But if your town, let's figure this out. Only way to win is if town comes together. I wanted a no lynch but then I realized it isn't going to work. I'm pretty sure I know who will die at night and it's most likely the only one that is engaging everyone and the person that most of us trust as townie. If he's gone, I don't think town can get together the next day. Which is frustrating me, because I think town has basically given up this game and scum is content to sit back and watch this train wreck happen. So no I don't think a no lynch is a good idea.

that doesn't answer my question.

[TheDudeAbides]

You also never answered my question about your opinion of my vote on Mykonian.

[TheDudeAbides]

Bella could you tell me what you found opportunistic about Boon's case on Tool?

[TheDudeAbides]

You also never answered my question about your opinion of my vote on Mykonian.

I didn't like it. It was a naked vote. Also a bit suspicious since he was pushing you, albeit weakly.

So you think I am scummy for something you did too?

[TheDudeAbides]

I can get behind a mykonian lynch.

VOTE: mykonian

He's at L-1 now.

[TheDudeAbides]

Sorry about my activity lately. Too many unexpected things came up in a row.

I'm surprised that no one noticed the mod making a rule stopping me from going V/LA that he enforced for me, but not Eektor. At the time I figured that was going to end up being an issue.

Thanks for the game. The no lynch on day one really hurt the town. Either slot being dead by endgame would have been better for the town than neither.

[TheDudeAbides]

Also, as far as the rule goes, on a site where weekend vlas aren't too uncommon, it doesn't seem like a good idea.