Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[Elyse]

Hai mykonian, tool, Aeronaut, and RC!!!

This is my first game in like a year I think. (Probably more like 6 months lol)

ANYWAY

VOTE: Aquanim

Three votes on page 1 is SCUMMY even if two of them were the same person in a pointless vote/unvote.

I'm surprised no one else has voted for him tbh. Catch up folks.

[Elyse]

...
Three votes on page 1 is SCUMMY
...

Why would that be?

Let me guess...you did it for reactions?

I find that these kinds of "reaction tests" during RVS on page 1 are often meaningless and an easy way for scum to gain town cred.

[Elyse]

Let me guess...you did it for reactions?

I find that these kinds of "reaction tests" during RVS on page 1 are often meaningless and an easy way for scum to gain town cred.

That doesn't sound like a positive reason to call it "SCUMMY" to me, merely that it is not a good reason to call someone town. Can you explain further why you think it is the former, as opposed to the latter?

You seem smart enough to realize that early reaction tests are meaningless, so it would make more sense for you to have ulterior motives.

However, I didn't know that then. I mostly said SCUMMY in all caps as an exaggeration since it's page 1. But yeah you do seem pretty smart and if you acknowledge that it makes sense to call someone either not town or scum based on what you did, then I think my vote is in the right place at the moment.

[Elyse]

DON'T BRING US BACK TO RVS

[Elyse]

Neato. I like you.

Hopefully you aren't scum.

[Elyse]

Why is Taly deserving of your vote?

[Elyse]

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

After two people told metalcyanide to stop bringing us back to RVS, why would you slap down an RVS vote?

I investigated Mykonian in pre-game and he is scum:

Vote: Mykyonian

Is this supposed to be an RVS vote?

Well we are out of RVS so I'm going to unvote

UNVOTE:

What's the point of unvoting? Same to you Taly and metalcyanide.

I'm liking Aquanim a fair bit more now.
UNVOTE: Aquanim
Not loving eektor, he's been posting fairly frequently but briefly and without much substance, mostly just agreeing with other people. He hasn't been doing much hunting.
Don't know how I feel about Taly. I think I like him, for the most part.
I don't like Metal, at least not much. A meaningless RVS vote and an immediate retraction with an apology is fishy, to say the least. It eliminates the possibility of a reaction test and, while it could just be chalked up to laziness, apathy is at best a null tell. Seems scummy to me.
VOTE: Metalcyanide

This is L-1.

How does a vote and retraction take away from a reaction test. If I say so I've gotten a couple good reactions. Like putting someone at L-1 when another person is counter claiming a cop role.
Hard scum read on InsidiousLemons, but not a target right now I want to hear from TheDude about the counter claim and more from mykonian

Also, is there a list of the roles in this game I can't seem to find it.

Ok I'm thinking that scum would have more insight into the game and know that this isn't open. So I'm leaning town on metal at the moment.

Quick question metal, how many games have you played onsite?

Awwww, it seems I missed casting RVS. Screw it - VOTE: Pisskop he's the only one I've played with before obviously has to be scum because of that

Why are you trying to bring us back to RVS...

Because I always miss RVS and I was still reading what was going on....sorry UNVOTE: Pisskop

I really, really hate this... You're bowing to pressure here quite quickly, and apologizing and unvoting immediately. That looks like you're trying way to hard to fit in.

FOS: Metal

So, Metal/Taly both worthy of my votes and since there's no one on Taly

VOTE: metalcyanide

Why is Taly worthy of your vote?

Good post except I already asked RC that and he gave a legit answer.

[Elyse]

@Metal
How many games have you played onsite?

[Elyse]

Ok.

You're town for now.

Who specifically is using your apology as a weapon? InsidiousLemons?

[Elyse]

Why aren't you voting for him?

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: eektor

I'll post reasoning and some updated reads later. Not much time now? (Spoiler: After some internal debating, I've come to the conclusion IL is town. And eektor is probably scum.)

@eektor
Why are you engaging with TDA and his "misrep"? Do you think he is seriously a pre-game cop?

[Elyse]

@Mod
I'm voting eektor, not oddmusic.

Although I would be fine voting oddmusic at this point. His recent posts have been pretty scummy but I don't feel the need to expound upon them even more. I don't think he and eektor are scum together, though. Eektor brought up his name out of nowhere and started a wagon on him.

@Elyse If his vote wasn't RVS, I want to know why he's lying. Also, I've never even heard of a pre-game cop and I am doubtful that is normal.

Why do you think I'm scum?

He was clearly joking when he said that. You even asked if his vote was RVS or not. If you actually believed that it was possible he investigated mykonian pregame, you would have made a bigger stink over it and made him explain himself.

Then when he (again, jokingly) replies that his vote isn't RVS, you ask him seriously why he would unvote someone he knows to be scum. But then in your next post, which contains all your reads, you don't even mention TheDudeAbides.

It just doesn't seem like a logical thought process for town. To me, it seems like scum who is hesitant and unsure of how to deal with someone claiming things that you already know the answer to.

[Elyse]

Oh and with regards to InsidiousLemons, at first I was unsure of his change in stance on metalcyanide. I didn't know if it was scum hopping off what he thought would be an easy mislynch after running into some trouble, or town who genuinely had a change of heart. His posts have made me think the latter.

[Elyse]

Taly, I explained why I'm voting eektor in post 168.

I like mykonian's point about "openly". I find saying the word "honestly" is very similar.

[Elyse]

Taly, when would you, as town, not be open and honest about your ideas and reasons?

[Elyse]

You lost me.

I'm not saying you haven't been open and honest. But is there ever a situation where you would not be open and honest as town?

[Elyse]

If there is no reason to not be honest and open, then why are you insisting you are? Do you see what mykonian is saying?

What knowledge led to your unvote?

[Elyse]

Shhhhh

[Elyse]

If there is no reason to not be honest and open, then why are you insisting you are? Do you see what mykonian is saying?

What knowledge led to your unvote?

>I voted for mykonian partially to get a reaction leading to him explaining his reads.
>I justified myself that I was being honest because that was in response to Mykonians analysis, I wanted to clear up positions with him.
>I now see what Mykonian was saying, so I unvoted.

You still didn't answer my question from before. What is the point of insisting your honesty and openness if it is a given for town players?

And if what mykonian said made you want to unvote him, why did it take pressure from me to do so? You posted three times in between his post expounding on his reads and your eventual unvote of him.

@Elyse If his vote wasn't RVS, I want to know why he's lying. Also, I've never even heard of a pre-game cop and I am doubtful that is normal.

Why do you think I'm scum?

He was clearly joking when he said that. You even asked if his vote was RVS or not. If you actually believed that it was possible he investigated mykonian pregame, you would have made a bigger stink over it and made him explain himself.

Then when he (again, jokingly) replies that his vote isn't RVS, you ask him seriously why he would unvote someone he knows to be scum. But then in your next post, which contains all your reads, you don't even mention TheDudeAbides.

It just doesn't seem like a logical thought process for town. To me, it seems like scum who is hesitant and unsure of how to deal with someone claiming things that you already know the answer to.

I'm sorry but I just don't see that as a joke. When I asked to make sure his vote was RVS, he said no. I take that as he had a reason to vote for mykonian. And I didn't put him on my reads because I'm still figuring him out.

But you knew that a pre-game cop wasn't normal...so I'm not understanding how you thought he was being serious.

Now I don't see how you can think my actions with him are scum motivated.

Not scum motivated, but what awkward scum would do.

Wouldn't scum who knew he had to be joking just let it slide rather than confront him to make sure he was actually doing an RVS instead of a real vote?

How would scum know if he was joking? They don't know town roles. Your actions don't align with a townie who genuinely believed TDA wasn't joking. If I thought someone had a potential cop guilty on someone, I would make sure he made that clear right away.

Also, so your motivation to vote me had nothing to do with my reads and vote on oddmusic and solely on my interaction with the dude?

Correct.

I don't really want to vote Aquanim today. I'm mostly confused about why RC is voting him. If it's for his actions surrounding the odd wagon, I don't think that's a good way to find scum considering odd hasn't flipped.

[Elyse]

Ok whatever. I'm having a hard time understanding your posts and this isn't really getting anywhere.

I still don't get why you waited three posts to unvote mykonian rather than just do it right away. It seemed like my pressure on you caused you to do it, and lying about it is scum motivated.

[Elyse]

I think it's because you use way too many commas and run-on sentences.
This:

Me re-iterating that I'm honest and open in defense, trying to justify that my actions were town motivation - is why I insisted on my openness to the subjects so far.

is unreadable to me.

And you are saying that mykonian's explanation was the reason you unvoted him.

What I am saying is that you are lying because you didn't unvote him immediately after that post. You posted three times in between, and only unvoted after I pressured you. I think you got nervous when I pressured you, backed off your push on myko, and retroactively justified it by saying his explanation was sufficient.

[Elyse]

I'm not trying to make you feel bad but yes you told me what I needed to know...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Taly

[Elyse]

@eektor
Ok that makes more sense. But then what did you base TDA's apparent confirmation of mykonian as scum on?

My case on Taly is this:

He placed a poor vote on mykonian and only unvoted when I put pressure on him. Then, he backtracked and said that mykonian's explanation of his read caused him to unvote. However, I pointed on that this was not true since Taly posted three times after mykonian's explanation and did not unvote. Upon pressing him further, he admitted my pressure did have an influence on his unvote.

[Elyse]

@oddmusic
I think admitting it due to pressure negates any towniness about it. But yes that did make me question myself a little bit.

@Taly
I liked RC's early posts but I don't like his push on Aquanim. Leaning town but not strongly.

I'm saying your vote was poor because you retracted it after a little bit of a pressure and a standard explanation from mykonian. Most early votes in the game are poor.

With regard to everything else, you literally said earlier in the game there is no reason to be dishonest as town, yet now you admit to dishonesty. You don't handle pressure well and I think you "coming clean" is a defense mechanism to make you look like a confused townie. However, it contradicts what you said earlier and I'm not going to give you a free pass because you seem like a nice person. I'm sorry. But nice people can be scum too.

[Elyse]

I don't like the interaction between Aqua and RC. It seems fake.

[Elyse]

I don't like the interaction between Aqua and RC. It seems fake.

Do you think you're seeing fake in the sense that RC is scum, I'm scum, or we're both scum?

I'm not sure yet. It's not something I'm interested in pursuing right now, but RC used horrible WIFOM (that someone pointed out later) to justify his actions and you agreed with him almost immediately. It's fishy.

@Elyse

: Can I get from you a one paragraph or so summary of why you think Taly is scum?

Sure.

Taly placed a vote on mykonian and said he unvoted because of mykonian's explanation of his reads. I pointed out that this was untrue because Taly posted three times after mykonian's explanation and only unvoted after pressure from me. He later admitted this to be true and apologized for being dishonest. However, earlier in the game I pressed him about honesty and asked if it was ever acceptable for town to be dishonest. He said no, but contradicted himself when he was openly dishonest for fear of looking bad. This has moved him from newbscum to newbtown in my opinion. He then talked about how he "came clean" and explained his true intentions. It just seems like he's trying to cover up his obviously scummy behavior by playing the newb card and hoping everyone will sweep it under the rug.

[Elyse]

Not much time to post tonight but I mistyped in my Taly post. I meant to say newbtown to newbscum. My bad. I'll read up and post in the morning.

[Elyse]

@Taly

You lost me.

I'm not saying you haven't been open and honest. But is there ever a situation where you would not be open and honest as town?

No, and there shouldn't be. That deconstructs the towns main goal = identifying and eliminating scum.

That's why I was unsure about mykonian because he didn't give much reasoning(at the time I made a point and pushed about it) about his reads, and his responses seemed iffy to me. Now that I know more, I don't see much of a reason to suspect scum unless he gives me reason otherwise.

UNVOTE: mykonian

Here it is.

Taly doesn't have previous games. That's been said before... a fair number of times.

Are you reading the thread, mykonian?

I think I want a serious answer to this question.

UNVOTE: eektor
VOTE: mykonian

This is a horrible vote.

With regard to the thing around 176 with Taly voting and then unvoting Mykonian, I'm not sure that I'd describe it as "Taly unvoting Mykonian under pressure from Elyse" any more than "Taly got what he wanted from voting Mykonian and didn't get around to unvoting for a couple of posts".

Why are you so bent on defending Taly?
Have

you

been reading the thread? Did you notice that Taly admitted my pressure had an influence on his unvote? And did you notice that what he "got from mykonian" must not have been enough considering he's voting him again after mykonian barely posted in between his unvote and revote? You seem to be making tons of excuses for Taly when his play has been inconsistent with what he's saying.

Also what tool said.

[Elyse]

either way, to get back on track then, I'd take pbpe's or lists of reads esspecially early in the game as scummy then, having no contrary evidence that a player (taly in this case) just likes to do those.

I think coming under pressure and giving out a reads list comes from a townie part of the brain.

I think it comes from a scummy part of the brain. You should explain your reads without pressure from others.

[Elyse]

Ok seriously what is the point of that?

Instead of actually using your vote to get Boonskiies to answer your question, it just looks like you are proving you use votes to get answers to make your mykonian vote look better. Obviously you are going to retract the vote, so it doesn't actually add pressure to Boonskiies.

I think Aquanim is scum. I'm not sure if he's Taly's buddy or if he's WKing Taly...

[Elyse]

I'm going out so I don't have time to post a full case right now. I haven't suspected you the entire game but that was a huge overreaction on your part after I simply mentioned that I think you are scum.

[Elyse]

shut up aqua.

Are you complaining about my spamming? If so I'll try to tone it down a little. Does this mean you think I'm town?

I'm going out so I don't have time to post a full case right now. I haven't suspected you the entire game but that was a huge overreaction on your part after I simply mentioned that I think you are scum.

I take people saying that they think I am scum, particularly that they think I am scum over their current vote target that they've appeared quite confident about, rather seriously.

In particular, since it's their only read I know with certainty is wrong, I very much like to see their reasons for thinking it - it makes it much easier to read them, since the only possibilities are "they believe this and are mistaken" or "they don't believe this and are scum".

I don't think you're scum over Taly. My scumread on Taly is stronger, hence why my vote is on him. In the context of my scumread on you, I'm not sure if your interactions with Taly are scum-scum or scum-town. But I'm not confident enough in my read on you to switch to you.

I don't even have a huge case or anything.

- Your defense of Taly has been nonsensical at times. Taly admits to things, like my case on him being legit and his dishonesty at a certain point, yet you still act as if Taly has been acting town. I understand defending a townread, but you are going to more lengths than usual, unless your townread on Taly is THAT strong. And if it is, then lol.
- Your interaction with RC was bizarre. This particularly is horrible from both ends:

But if I was scum, wouldn't I do precisely that in order to get you to think that?

That would be why it's not a firm town read.

I suppose I should check your scum meta to see how well you can emulate it. Sometime. I have more pleasant uses for my time at present than reading your posts.

But worse from yours because you actually use RC's own WIFOM to make him less of a townread. It makes no sense.
- Your votes on mykonian and Boonskiies to get them to answer questions are pointless. As I already explained, it seems like your Boonskiies vote was done simply to make your mykonian vote look better.
- You completely overreacted to me mentioning a scumread on you.
- You were rolefishing with Taly. What is the point of pointing out that he was potentially softclaiming a PR? What if someone (scum perhaps) missed it amidst Taly's horribly formatted walls and only saw it because you pointed it out? There is nothing protown about it because now Taly must be run up to a claim or else we have to deal with a shitty softclaim we can't hold him accountable to down the road because he could claim any PR.


Now for Taly.

Back to you, Aqua - I find it rather funny how much they're willing to say that I am scum, but they're the ones asking you why you're defending me so much.

Why hasn't anyone questioned them?

Also, with 421 and 423 - I think anything that is emotional would come from a townie in distress,

townies should not feel like they need to sacrifice themselves

because that is playing directly for a scumwin. The fact that you think that is so acute in how everything goes here makes me question your alignment thoroughly now, Elyse.

I don't know what you are trying to stay here. Stop bolding, italicizing, capitalizing, and underlining random things.

I mean, Elyses case was official

250 posts ago

, and no lynch has been made, and we are STILL on this topic as the main drive in the progression of this game. Seem a little weird? Why is she the main person who has made a major case on anyone yet? Do you have something to say,

Miss Mafia?

It's my fault that my case on you has dominated discussion? Maybe it's because it's the only legit case out there - something you even acknowledged. I don't get why you're all in a huff about your wagon when you admit that my case has merit. I mean I get that you are going to defend yourself but you're acting as if everyone is crazy for voting you because you're being honest. Hint: No one can tell if you're being honest. Saying it does not help. And people are less likely to believe you when you've admitted to lying in the past.

You seem very inclined to say all of my behavior is noobscum but you've yet to say anything about the thoughts you "seemed to have had for me" earlier in the game that indicated noobtown. I mean, I thought that's what you meant in 365 - but you tripped up, and verified what you meant in 379.

I never thought you were noobtown. Your posts obviously indicated that you're a newbie, and the various contradictions and AtEs made me decide noobscum rather than noobtown.

I like how you're quick to jump on those who misstep, and continue a case for as long as possible for your thinking of it - I'd be more cautious if I were in your position.

The point of this game is to lynch your scumreads. That's what I'm doing.

Either way, I have a good idea just hear me out:

Here we go.

> Elyse was the only person to intervene about me and Mykonian, and for quite a few pages later until someone asked, she was the only person driving the idea that I was scum on board.

Why did Mykonian no longer question or say anything to me until after

Elyse had kept insisting that I was lying and was being scummy, to get me to reveal the full truth?

I think the real problem here is that you were lying and I pressed you to get the truth. I'll let mykonian address your question about why he didn't intervene but my guess it that I was doing a good enough job of pressuring you on my own.

It's a hunch, but like I said in a VERY early post - Elyse has very good win-ratios, especially with Mafia. I give her full props for manipulating the town, but if

her and a Mykonian team is true

, (like it is beginning to appear with me) - I wouldn't mind a few votes and cases on her.

So you're scumreading me for being a good player? Come on now.

Like I've said before, this is just a hunch - but something tells me Mykonian and Elyse are a possible scum team - they've been working and defending one another and they're both most active on my wagon.

Again, I don't understand how you can possibly scumread me for voting you and pushing your lynch when you have admitted my case on you is legitimate. And where am I defending mykonian?

(I don't see Tools logic,

eektor should be lynched for his lack of help assuming he doesn't even know why he voted for me other than being a sheep on a wagon

, and assuming RC will revote for Odd again - that's all of everyone who thinks I'm really scum. Which, by he way, is not even half the people against me right now.)

If eektor should be lynched then why aren't you voting for him?

But what I said to Aqua in my first few sentences in this post stand true, I'm just bringing to light that Mykonian and Elyse are scum. I do have valid reasons, and I have justified and explained myself in practically every post in this thread.

No you haven't considering this is the first time you've brought it up.

Whether Mykonian has done almost none at all, and Elyse hasn't really said much else of what she's been saying indirectly the past 5 pages.

I don't know what this means.

And then Taly insists he's being genuine. And he softclaims. Softclaiming is a pet peeve of mine and I hate it so so much. It's also a scumtell. A newbtown like Taly would be more likely to blurt out his entire role as a last minute defense. Instead, he's holding his cards close to his chest and leaving an option to claim whatever he wants, but also claiming PR to make people scared of lynching him. He clearly thought about using it as a defense rather than it being a gut reaction. He's scum.

@pisskop
Thoughts on Taly please. It seems like you're townreading him and I honestly can't fathom how after those posts.

[Elyse]

Ok don't respond to my legitimate points that's cool too.

@pisskop
Answer my question first.

[Elyse]

No answer mine first. I asked first. What is your read on Taly and why?

[Elyse]

Ok thanks.

I am scumreading oddmusic. He's my #3 behind Taly and Aquanim. Early in the game, as RC pointed out, he was noncommittal and flaky. He prefaced his first vote on metal by saying "I hate this part of the game" or something like that which is ridiculous and scummy. He's softening the blow and hoping to not get flak from metal rather than taking a hard stance with his scumread that he was confident enough in to vote for.

And then he throws down a horrible vote on RC after RC brought various legitimate points against him.

He keeps making excuses for himself about how he can't get into the game but he doesn't comment on what's happening in the thread very much when it's easy to do so.

This post:

Additional thoughts on a couple of players.

Mykonian's posting a lot without actually giving reasons for his posts. His most recent post was the key to me wanting to check over his ISO, and his only high content post was a scumread on Taly (181).

I am a little curious why Taly just switched his vote onto RadiantCowbells, considering it was quite a few posts ago that RC was his top scumread (that would be 259).

I think I like Insidious Lemons' posts thus far. Lots of analysis, lots of questioning mostly good stuff. A scumread on me last he talked about me, but I can't say I didn't earn it.

looks like a half-assed attempt to churn out some content but if you read it, it actually means absolutely nothing.

Looking over tool's case on Taly in 412, it's pretty good, and the posts he references back up his case well. The one thing that I question in it is the argument on 369. There was a lot of post happening there before Taly made his vote. It could be over-explaining, like tool described in 411, but the style of the post does strike me as genuine stream of consciousness. Regardless, I'm going to take a look over Taly's ISO.

Ok...so now what is your read on Taly? Did you look over his ISO?

P-edit:

[Elyse]

I was hospitalized for food poisoning last night...I'll be back tomorrow.

[Elyse]

Here we go.

I'm beginning to think that holding up this case on me now is just your way of trying to get me lynched,

Correct.

and/or trying to divert attention away from other things that have happened.

Such as?

Yeah, because I said I was a noobie..... Also, I have contradicted myself, but I feel as though I haven't been the only one here. I'm not liking the attention this case is still getting. Or at the very least, how far you'd want to go to lynch me.

Too bad?
I don't get how people can townread this person.

Again, yes, and I already said you should re-evaluate it and why. If you still don't get it, then

ask.

I reevaluated.

Spoiler:

You're still scum.

Also, quite a few of us have YET to hear your reads on most anyone here.

I've expressed scumreads on you, Aquanim, odd, and eektor. I'm townreading metal, pisskop, RC, Tool, and mykonian. I'm not the kind of person who makes lists because I don't like when scum get a consensus townread because it makes NK targets easier.

A lot of your posts seem like you keep trying to prove a point that has already been proven halfway in this thread already. Can you try to just look at other people right now and see if you change your outlook on this?

You are my strongest scumread. I have looked at other people and I do have other scumreads, but I want to lynch you the most.

Is this your way of indirectly telling everyone that you're not willing to hear what I say because you think everything I do at this point indicates scum?

Yes. That's precisely why I'm responding to everything you say to me and giving you the time of day. Stop acting like I'm disregarding your posts when I've been doing the opposite of that.

Oh really? Did you ever ask the question why

mykonian

DIDN'T

intervene?

I'm sorry, but ANYONE who falls back to hide behind someone else to do pressuring for them is a very weak scum tactic in my mind. Plus, I

NEVER

legitimately spoke to you at that point, you just inserted yourself into this when I was suspicious of mykonian, then you just pushed to find reasons why:

A)

I was false

B)

I was scum

C)

I was playing shakily(which was in part true, I'll give you that)

It just doesn't look like a good set-up.

I'm not interested in addressing your ridiculous "mykonian and Elyse are scumbuddies" conspiracy. This applies here too:

I already said where you were defending Mykonian in a previous respone in this post. Now let me show you a few posts where Mykonian was defending you:

My post emphasizing this in 456 did pretty well on this subject. Why was Mykonian complaining to Aqua? It felt like Aqua genuinely believed you guys were headed for a mislynch and you not only:

A) Dismiss him(you and mykonian)
B) Insult him(mykonian)
C) Validate that you both were against me and defending each other(mostly mykonian)
D) Question him on why he was so bent on helping me(you - Elyse)

Elyse, why don't you just reflect on yourself for a moment? Have you done that much different?

Oh, so you want to know my role? I'm a Town Role-Blocker. I can keep you from NKing everyone who doesn't agree with you. Does that upset you?

Taly is a scum roleblocker.

But tell me, why did you only claim PR rather than full roleblocker? Actually, why did you claim at all?

496 is a good example of why tool is town. Very insightful.

I kind of want a further explanation as to why pisskop voted Odd like that. I know Elyse sort of prompted it, but I don't know why he went there.

I'm assuming by vote you mean kill...otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Ok what the hell? How did I "prompt" the odd kill? I didn't even give my read on odd until AFTER pisskop killed him. You are literally making things up. And if I was scum and know that odd is town, why would I post my scumread of him after he was dead? I know this WIFOM, but there's no scum motivation to incorrectly read a dead townie. I could have easily said that odd was null or even leaning town. Instead, I explained my scumread on odd because pisskop asked me to. Instead of looking for motivations behind my posts, you just assume they are scummy and look for reasons why.

Okay wow, missed some fun stuff. So here's a bunch of stuff going through my head right now.

First things first UNVOTE: RadiantCowbells.
Second, Bye Bye Odd

Assuming RC really is a day cop then we can eliminate Pisskop & RC from any lynch.

RC who is Annie? I'm assuming this is the Boon slot.
Pisskop I'm assuming you are using your second shot before the end of D1. Who are you looking at? Also, you brought up a me being a scum team with Odd whats your thought on me now?

Looking back at my scum reads 2 were wrong (RC & Odd). I have to look at Taly and The Dude closer (i'll be real pissed if I go 0-4) and I need to look at mykonian (mostly because I haven't really looked at him to closely)

I'm not sure where to turn right now. Wagon is on Taly feels safe but I thought the same about RC. More digging needs to be done, I'll be back on tomorrow (aka later today).

Wut.

I was townreading metal before because I thought he would know if the game was open if he was scum but this is just too far. It seems like he's believing RC just because pisskop turned out to be telling truth rather than truly determine if he was telling the truth or not. And how can you actually believe that claim? I don't get it.

that's curious eektor.

5 posts ago you really disliked taly's posting. And your aqua read was solely based on him being a buddy of odd.

you seem confused.

If you were actually read what I said, I was debating from newb town or newb scum. Either way I have no intention of trying to lynch a possible town power role which makes me wonder why are you still pushing for his lynch.

As for aqua, scum can buddy up a town to make them look more town when they flip town. His attitude after the flip, was I was right about odd, and then proceeds to question people's reads on odd afterwards makes me see that coming more from scum than town. Also, I don't like him pointing out Taly's soft claim.

I like this post.

That's really awful. I once got food poisoning from homemade eggnog, didn't poop for a week :\

Hope you get better!

Thanks...a word of advice - don't eat cheap sushi.

Are you voting RC for saying they were the cute-cop??

Honestly only really cared about the cop part. I've played games (on other sites) where the role titles were weird for no reason so I assumed the claim was just that. The fact RC didn't say anything to correct me bugs the hell out of me. So yes I guess I am voting him for saying he is the "cute-cop" long with my already mentioned reasons. Add in the Odd flip town thanks to the mis-shot I don't see this as a bad D1 lynch.

Ok this explains it a little bit I guess.

I was hospitalized for food poisoning last night...I'll be back tomorrow.

Omg, I hope you feel better. Food poisoning is not a fun thing.

Thanks. I'm better today. The past two days were rough though.

It was a bad joke that to me looked like a fake claim. Call me stupid but that's what I saw when reading through everything.

Ok...but now you're acknowledging that it was a joke so why are you still voting him?

elyse, get better. I need someone to talk to. And tool is never here at the same time.

I'm back!!

I'm here right now, mykonian.

@Taly -- Please reconcile these two statements:

I am a Town Role-Blocker

you can waste that second bullet of yours and when I flip town it may give people extra incentive to get you to answer questions instead of making statements.

Because the first statement says "I have the power to prevent you from killing me" and the second says "if you try to kill me tonight, you will succeed."

I think the bigger question is why Taly seems content with being a martyr as a supposed town PR.

Never mind it was apparently a test...that didn't make sense because pisskop already said he couldn't shoot someone else but ok.

Taly, you called pisskop town after he shot oddmusic. Why are you bringing up the possibility of him being a mafia dayvig now? (Ignoring the fact that a mafia dayvig in a mini is ridiculous, of course)

Even though her day-cop claim was a bit weird, I would believe her claim. (Since pisskops claim was correct, and my claim

IS

correct.) I think she was genuine there, especially after getting annoyed over Odds death.

Hm?

hmm. Well, it's probably sensible to do this specifically.

I'm vague in my wordings, that's half laziness, that's half seeing who's thinking along similar lines. Twice now Taly has assumed something was about him when that didn't make any sense. Last example is when I comment on the daykill (that's two meh reads gone or something like that). Taly takes that as meaning him, while I was thinking about the shooter (since dayvigs are likely town) and the shot player. It's just a mindset, the expectation that I should be talking about him.

Another thing is his explanation who should be dangerous to me. His view of lemon as clearly on my side is only because lemon is voting him. It doesn't enter his thoughts that someone might be worried about people buddying. He's just looking at who votes him and who doesn't.

It's just the entire mindset. Not just defensiveness, but a selfcentered look at the game.

This post eloquently explains my biggest problem with Taly. Beautiful.

Thats a list of 5 scumreads

I see only 4 in there, but the most important part is the scummies (i'm onto you) section which seems to be his top 2.

I laughed out loud

So are you saying because Taly's point of view is very seflcentered, that makes him scum?

yes, that's a general theory thing. Town would be more preoccupied with finding out about others, scum about protecting their place in the game.

And the posts on the last couple of pages are hardly the first time you can notice this, take for example his unvote of you somewhere on page 3.

No, I agree with you on the self centeredness. I mean he went from eektor needs to be lynched and then when I told him I wasn't voting for him, he dropped that and now is putting me as a very slight town read. His two top scum reads are the people who I think is pushing his lynch the hardest. I'm just not sure whether that is scummy as I did that on my first game where anyone voting for me I had a scum read because I was town (which I was).

I like this post too. eektor seems to be genuine in discerning alignments.

I can't help but think that the focus of the thread on active players today (it's mostly been on Taly, RadiantCowbells, myself, and some on Elyse and Mykonian) is a classic way for town to lose.

I think there are some people scumreading Taly simply because there is much more to be scumread about him, for the sole reason that he's posted so much more than most. Since eektor, TDA and especially boonskiies aren't saying much of anything, the actual volume of the reasons to scumread them is less. That does not, however, make them any less likely to be mafia than Taly.

Further, it encourages them to keep lurking whatever their alignment, since not only are they not being pursued for it, they are getting a demonstration in the thread of what's likely to happen to them if they DO speak up.

So basically your saying hey stop looking at the active players and look at the lurkers?

Not quite. I'm saying "look at the lurkers as well".

Good. I'm in full agreement.
We have a few lukers this game I feel, I think the biggest lukers right now are (no real order):
Elyse w/ 36 posts last post 28 hrs ago
TBA w/ 31 posts last post 12 hrs ago
Boon w/ 7 posts (I get he replaced in but still there should be more) last post 16 hrs ago
Tool w/ 21 posts last post 17 hrs ago
and Eektor w/ 27 posts but last posted 8 hours ago

How the hell am I a lurker? Have you been participating in this game?
Seriously. Not only are half of these people not lurkers, but listing their names in a post doesn't accomplish what Aquanim was advocating.

You say town like it's some separate entity apart from you

That was the dumbest thing I've read today

Interesting how you say dumb as an insult to my intelligence as opposed to insinuating that I'm flailing scum grasping at straws.

Could it be you know I'm town?

Anything is possible, however unlikely.

This is a strange interaction. It makes metal look bad.

I still want to lynch Taly but would be satisfied with metal too at this point. My early townread on him was due to ignorance but that now that is making me scumread him so there's really no point in using that at all. All that's left is that he has a bad vote on RC he has failed to justify.

I'm still scumreading Aquanim but I don't want to lynch him D1.

P-edit: Yup.

[Elyse]

I know how you feel.

@TDA
What is your read on Aquanim?

[Elyse]

A scum RBer can stop town PRs. Scum RBers are in fact more common than town RBers since most mods favor jailkeepers. I mean let's say you genuinely didn't know that...is it that hard to decipher? I feel like you're asking easy questions to make yourself look like newbtown when thinking about it for like a second will give you an answer.

I'm fine with dropping our walls because I think they speak for themselves. However, I do want you to address your claim that I provoked the kill on oddmusic and the scum motivation in posting my scumread of him after he was shot.

[Elyse]

Also

2)

If being a martyr is what helps everyone seen that I'm truly making an effort to help the town, and validate everything people have discredited from me

- then yes, I will be a martyr.

Like COME ON - DO I LOOK LIKE I AM IN ANY BETTER POSITION THAN YOU PEOPLE?

However, I'm still not sacrificing myself because I am quite certain in some of my views in this game... and plus, sacrificing myself is what scum wants. Because they know Town will those a PR with my mislynch.

Also IL, hope you get better! :O

Lol

[Elyse]

[Elyse]

@Taly

A scum RBer can stop town PRs. Scum RBers are in fact more common than town RBers since most mods favor jailkeepers. I mean let's say you genuinely didn't know that...is it that hard to decipher? I feel like you're asking easy questions to make yourself look like newbtown when thinking about it for like a second will give you an answer.

I'm fine with dropping our walls because I think they speak for themselves.

However, I do want you to address your claim that I provoked the kill on oddmusic and the scum motivation in posting my scumread of him after he was shot.

^^
Das it.

Then I'm done with you.

@RC
I think pushing pisskop as possible scum is ridiculous. I've never heard of a day SK and a mafia vig is OP in a mini. Even on the .01% chance he is scum, it will be obvious when he makes it to LyLo. Plus, why not save that for LyLo? For a day serial killer to kill a common scumread on D1 that was lynchable is not optimal play. I think pisskop is smarter than that. Oh and he limited himself to two shots so he can only kill one more person anyway. I highly doubt he's scum and I don't like your slight push on him.

Regarding mykonian, I think you bring up a valuable point. He does try to pass off your "zany" behavior as "just you" rather than look into it to determine your alignment. Whether that is scum apathy or town apathy I don't know but you recognizing that + feeling skittish you aren't being scumread makes you look town too. Though I'm a little confused as to why you are expecting to be run up to L-1 and what it means that you haven't been.

@eektor
Yes I think there would be scum on the Taly wagon if he flipped town. And if he flipped scum. Totally town driven wagons are rare and I would have to look at the wagon after to see who it is. I was debating that Aquanim could be Taly's scumbuddy but I don't think so anymore. I think it's either A) Aquanim is town and genuinely reads Taly as town - Taly latches on to anyone who reads him as town and uses that to form a townread on them too or B) Aquanim is white-knighting Taly and making himself look better after his eventual townflip. Taly seems too buddy-buddy with Aquanim for them to be scumbuddies and I would expect him to be a little more reluctant in interacting with a buddy. Wow I just said buddy a lot.

[Elyse]

@Taly

@eektor
Yes I think there would be scum on the Taly wagon if he flipped town. And if he flipped scum. Totally town driven wagons are rare and I would have to look at the wagon after to see who it is. I was debating that Aquanim could be Taly's scumbuddy but I don't think so anymore. I think it's either A) Aquanim is town and genuinely reads Taly as town - Taly latches on to anyone who reads him as town and uses that to form a townread on them too or B) Aquanim is white-knighting Taly and making himself look better after his eventual townflip. Taly seems too buddy-buddy with Aquanim for them to be scumbuddies and I would expect him to be a little more reluctant in interacting with a buddy. Wow I just said buddy a lot.

So, you're saying that the only way you see Aquanim as scum is if Taly is town?

See that's my problem, Taly. If you actually carefully read the interaction between pisskop and I, you would see I refused to explain my read on odd until he answered my question first, so I had absolutely no influence on the kill or scum motivation to post my scumread on him after he was dead.

Anyway, RC, what do you think you not being run up means? I don't understand why it makes you nervous.

And eektor, yes, I don't think Aquanim and Taly are scum together.

[Elyse]

Well if you were going to do that you should've waited until I posted. I saw your kill in my p-edit and if I was scum I could have easily changed my post and given off a null/town read.

[Elyse]

What I took away from the back and forth between Taly and tool:

[Elyse]

I'm sick of Taly's self-centered/woe is me/entitled approach to the game.

Let's lynch him.

[Elyse]

@eektor, pisskop, TDA

Why aren't you voting anyone?

[Elyse]

Welp. (No he didn't contact me lol)

I'm not going to trash Taly now but I do have some things to say post-game regarding his play.

VOTE: metalcyanide

[Elyse]

Why FoS RC and why IL over metal?

[Elyse]

Because Taly is dead and he's my next highest scumread...why not?

[Elyse]

While I'm not opposed to an IL lynch, it would literally give us no information.

[Elyse]

I do

Actually I don't but I prefer a metal lynch

[Elyse]

He just has more interactions with people to analyze after the fact.

plz don't make me do it before he flips I'm begging you.

[Elyse]

Idk how to feel. A cop/RB/2-shot anytime vig sounds OP for town. The scumteam can literally be killed by the end of N1 and there are so many things to fuck them up.

But I also believe pisskop and RC...so yeah at this point I'm going to go with scum having a ton of power to cancel out the town power. I'm not interested in pisskop or RC today but I do think having pisskop selecting from a pool would be a good idea even if I do think he is 90% town. Basically I just don't want him to shoot RC.

[Elyse]

@RC
Explain to me how wait for piss to shoot tomorrow proves his role?

He's already proven that he can shoot during the day. I think it proves his role more if he shoots someone tonight. Plus, if scum doesn't believe your claim or decides to shoot pisskop anyway, at least he gets to use his second shot (assuming he's actually 2-shot).

[Elyse]

Whatever

[Elyse]

@eektor
I'm not voting for metal because his lynch is the most informative. I'm using that as a reason to vote for him over IL. I am scumreading metal more than I am scumreading anyone else. As far as analyzing the Taly wagon for scum, it's not a full wagon and if there is scum on it I'm guessing it's IL since I am townreading mykonian and tool.

[Elyse]

Yes, I agree with you in that interaction.

There have been several times throughout the thread where mykonian has posted exactly what I am thinking and I know it's coming from a town mindset. Also, there's one specific time I remember he wanted to interact with me because it would firm up his read on me which made me feel better because there was a slight worry he was buddying me.

[Elyse]

All your doing at this point is annoying people and in the 0.0000000000001% chance you are right noone will care because you pissed us off.

just skip his posts like a sensible person.

I have been at this point but i do have to at least skim to ensure there isn't something usable there. RC is still the one I want lynched today but I don't see it happening.

You want to lynch a non counterclaimed cop?

@pisskop
RC is being ridiculous, but why did you FoS him in the first place?

[Elyse]

I'm sick of Taly's self-centered/woe is me/entitled approach to the game.

Let's lynch him.

Why do you think this is a scum approach to the game?

I don't.

As far as not voting metal for not knowing a potential role list - he's shown again and again he is unfamiliar with normal mechanics and I don't see it as more likely to come from either alignment.

[Elyse]

While I do think that TDA voting for Boon is dumb, I also did not know there were 24 hours left.

I will be around to switch to IL if necessary but I would prefer metal, especially since it doesn't look like we're getting a claim from IL.

[Elyse]

Yah same

[Elyse]

Is everyone scum in this game or something what the hell

[Elyse]

Metal voting for RC is stupid and scummy.
RC voting for pisskop is stupid and scummy.
Pisskop refusing to answer why he FoS'd RC is stupid and scummy.

[Elyse]

Pisskop will be dealt with eventually. I am still 90% sure both of you are town though ftr.

[Elyse]

let's lynch metal

[Elyse]

Add metal jumping on any wagon he can to reasons he's on the scumpile. He should be pushing his strongest scumread but he's willing to lynch basically anyone except IL which is weird as hell and if he flips scum IL could be his buddy. As a VT, metal's behavior seems a little off.

[Elyse]

So uh we need someone besides mykonian to switch to metal.

Otherwise Aqua and I (or metal lol he's not voting IL) have to switch to IL to avoid a NL.

Is anyone that is not voting for metal but will on?

[Elyse]

You will hammer yourself?

[Elyse]

How are you so sure you'll be alive?

I'm hoping you won't be.

[Elyse]

The fact that you aren't even thinking about being vigged by pisskop is making my head spin.

[Elyse]

Thought about it, I'm guessing he has a different shot in mind but it is a possibility. BTW, just because I don't mention something doesn't mean it wasn't thought of.

Sorry I don't have access to your thoughts.

[Elyse]

I'm also gonna note that Elyse said she'd hammer IL, disappeared, then showed up an hour after deadline. For what that's worth.

I was here. No one would change their vote. I went out to eat and when I got back deadline was over. I can't remain glued to the computer and enough people said they would be online.

[Elyse]

Again, apologies for not making it to deadline, but I thought it was covered and was unable to be there anyway. I kind of want to lynch IL or metal because obviously scum didn't want one of them to die.

[Elyse]

And I doubt both were run up as scum

[Elyse]

I feel like scum would have taken a side and hardbussed one of them. Two leading wagons on scum ending in apathy just doesn't seem right because it puts both in a shitty position again tomorrow.

I'll just say this: If IL and metal are both scum, the scumteam missed a big opportunity to bus one and give the other a decent amount of cred.

[Elyse]

What would that mean? (If RC is the type to mess with scum)

[Elyse]

I like his decision. Don't really see the point in discussing it since I'm pretty sure we all think he's town.

[Elyse]

Fair enough.

[Elyse]

We need to lynch to find scum, not to find information.

VOTE: metalcyanide

Forgot to vote. I still think he's scum from yesterday.

[Elyse]

We need to lynch to find scum, not to find information.

VOTE: metalcyanide

Forgot to vote. I still think he's scum from yesterday.

What makes me your best scum read?

Mostly the reasons from yesterday and today you are complaining about a lack of conversation without starting one yourself.

[Elyse]

My next best scumread is IL because of the no lynch. I am townreading mykonian, tool, and Aquanim. I was scumreading Aquanim but after rereading Day 1 during the night phase I shook that read. Eektor, Boonskiies and TDA could be scum but there's not much there that makes me think they are either alignment.

Quote where I said we need to ignore a Boon lynch because it wouldn't tell us anything.

[Elyse]

How does that imply that we should ignore Boon?

[Elyse]

You are twisting my words. I specifically said that "information" isn't a good reason to lynch someone anymore, which, if anything, SUPPORTS a Boon lynch. And what the hell am I supposed to say about someone who is literally a nonfactor in the game?

"Oh that Boon. Look at him and all of his posts."

Liiiiiiike.

Boon is very much an option today but I'm not going to pretend he's scummier than you.

[Elyse]

You are twisting my words. I specifically said that "information" isn't a good reason to lynch someone anymore, which, if anything, SUPPORTS a Boon lynch. And what the hell am I supposed to say about someone who is literally a nonfactor in the game?

"Oh that Boon. Look at him and all of his posts."

Liiiiiiike.

Boon is very much an option today but I'm not going to pretend he's scummier than you.

Right now your saying Boon is a nonfactor. This is false. He has made himself known enough to draw attention. If he is scum he has lurked perfectly because not enough of town want to go after him if he is town he has caused a distraction that the scum team loves. He is a factor.

Oh come on.

First off, you're ignoring the fact that I never argued against a Boon lynch and you were blatantly wrong. Second, Boon has BEEN a nonfactor in this game, hence why he's only in my ISO eleven times. I'm not saying he should be ignored. I literally said in that post "Boon is very much an option today." I know it's hard to fabricate reads as scum, but purposely misrepping me is not a good way to do it.

[Elyse]

Eelyse, could you bullet your case on metal?

Sure.

At first I townread metal for not knowing that the game wasn't open, but then he immediately believed that RC was an "adorable cop" or something ridiculous like that. I feel like scum are more likely to believe a townie's claim no matter what because they know the person is town and probably isn't lying. Him showing no skepticism whatsoever was very strange. So I think his ignorance wrt to general setup and roles is either a wash or leans scum.
Other things:
-votes RC for a "joke", but keeps vote there after realizing it was a joke
-calls tool, eektor, and myself lurkers, showing he's not actually that involved in the game
-wanted to lynch an un-CC'd cop Day 1
-willing to lynch anyone as a VT except for IL
-lots of complaining about there being no conversation, but not starting one himself
-misreps me by saying I am advocating we ignore Boon, then tries to pass it off as a reaction test

[Elyse]

- I had a problem with RC all game and didn't believe the cop claim so I pushed what I thought was right. Plus RC was really playing this game well, went after 3 town Odd, Taly, myself, and claimed for no reason. Yep totally trusted him

Um, you did trust him when he claimed "adorable cop" sooo

- Called several people lurkers based off post count and time away. Just because you had a few long posts doesn't mean your not lurking (imo)

That's funny since

I don't understand how a townie reading the thread would come to the conclusion that Elyse is a lurker, post count or no post count.

Just going by the post count. She defenitly has a good amount of long posts though

A)I didn't do a word count on everyone and if you look back a few posts I did make a mention of that.

Do you still want to hold onto this new stance that I was lurking early in the game?

- Was also willing to be the lynch gave IL a break because he was in the damn hospital.

We needed a lynch close to deadline and you didn't vote for your counterwagon. That's bizarre. I don't know if it's because he's your scumbuddy, you preferred a no lynch to give town no information, or you're stupid.

- I feel like I've attempted to get conversation going several times.

Really? You just said this before:

The conversation thus far has been where is Boon and we think Pisskop is town. I'm not good at leading town or getting conversations going probably why you think I'm scum, unless your scum trying to get a mislynch but ignoring that for now. My entire game relies on being able to comment on others arguments.

- Yes, I too can try reaction tests. Unfortunately no one commented besides you, but I liked your responses at least.

What you did was misrep me, get called out on it, and pretend it was a reaction test. It clearly wasn't one and anyone on a 1st grade reading level can see that.

If metal isn't lynched by the time I wake up tomorrow morning I'll be pissed.

[Elyse]

How is metal still alive after the blatant contradictions and lies he's made

I don't get it

[Elyse]

Hi Bellaphant!

It'll be nice to have a new perspective in the game. Hopefully you aren't scum.

[Elyse]

How is metal still alive after the blatant contradictions and lies he's made

I don't get it

because it's easy enough to make a coherent story if that's your goal.

contradictions so rarely get you anywhere.

What's your read on metal

[Elyse]

As for metal being town, I find that scum after talking during the night thought to push metal day 2, and might be why their is no IL interest today. Although if that is the case, IL might be town.

Ok quick question for you.

Why is it scummy for me to pursue a read from yesterday after a no lynch?

And what do you expect people to push IL on? Not being there?

The amount of resistance to the metal wagon is making me more confident he is scum. I don't think there's a counterwagon because this game is basically a clusterfuck and who else is there to vote? Boon, TDA, and Bellaphant are all possible scum but give us pretty much nothing to work with. And it sucks. I feel bad for metal, but I'm not going to let him escape the noose so I can concentrate on the three lurkers when I am confident he is scum.

[Elyse]

@Elyse

: Do you find Mykonian's reply to you in #1463 satisfactory?

I was waiting for him to reply to you.

I don't agree with him and I think having a townread on someone based on one post in this huge game is weak. Am I satisfied? I guess not.

[Elyse]

I've been trying to read along but my eyes keep glazing over. I had a terribly busy day. Will be back tomorrow.

[Elyse]

@Aqua
I'm having trouble understanding how you came to the conclusion mykonian is considering Boon as certainly town. Everyone else seems to get it so I think it's just me. Can you run me through that?

I do think you make a good point that the leading wagons being Taly vs Metal and then IL vs Metal suggest Metal scum. What would a metal scumflip do to your mykonian read?

I dislike Boon's vote on tool. You could comb through anyone's ISO, quote a few posts, bullshit a few reasons, and slap a vote on. Plus, tool is one of my strongest townreads.

Also, I disagree with Mykonian being suspicious for saying not to lynch me. If anyone is pushing my lynch it is OBVIscum driven as absolutely no association flips will be told by me dying. It is only Day 2. I am a Day 4+ lynch kind of person; mykonian has some experience with me.

So basically we should reward you for lurking by letting you live to Day 4? If you're scum that's a pretty dangerous strategy. I also don't like how you are subtly pushing your own lynch back but not completely opposing it so others don't question it.

Also, why is your read on metal dependent on tool's flip? What's the connection there?

Thank you for confirming that from your perspective you claim to have Boonskiies as a hard town read, though. That makes this a fair bit easier.

Welp I guess that doesn't matter now lol you were right.

I do think that mykonian calling Boon town is ridiculous and I understand the votes but I still want to lynch metal.

[Elyse]

Deadline is Monday? I won't be available Monday but I will be able to check in until then. I still prefer a metal lynch but if it doesn't look like it's happening I will move my vote before deadline. The last thing we need is another NL.

I do implore everyone to ISO me for my metal case and see what you think because I really think he's scum and I'm afraid that all of the opposition to his lynch means I'm right. The speed of the Myko wagon is certainly frightening but Aquanim's point regarding his Boon read is very strong. I understand the reasons to lynch him but it still makes me worry a little bit.

[Elyse]

Thanks for the extension mod that's helpful.

[Elyse]

Yes I would be willing to move my vote but I'm still not sold on mykonian as scum.

Also, metal, could you answer TDA's question to you regarding your reaction test? I don't think you addressed that.

[Elyse]

My hesitance to lynch mykonian stems from my early townread on him. He and I had very similar thought processes and he would say things that were on my mind. This either comes from a town mindset or an adept scum mindset. Not to say that mykonian isn't skilled, but it's hard to fake.

[Elyse]

Yeah I guess. Basically this:

Yes, I agree with you in that interaction.

There have been several times throughout the thread where mykonian has posted exactly what I am thinking and I know it's coming from a town mindset. Also, there's one specific time I remember he wanted to interact with me because it would firm up his read on me which made me feel better because there was a slight worry he was buddying me.

Most of it was about Taly, though most of D1 was about Taly.

@metal
You still have to explain your reaction test.

[Elyse]

@metal
You still have to explain your reaction test.

The reaction test was to see how you would respond, to see if others would respond, and just get conversation going again because we were at a stand still at the time

What were you expecting? How would I have responded if I was scum?

[Elyse]

Still wary about myko but idk if he would self-hammer as town. Nothing to do now. I do agree we should lynch Boonskiies if he flips scum.

If he flips town then we'll reevaluate but I'm going to be looking at metal for sure.

I mostly agree with Aqua except I'm town and I don't really see TDA town. Or TDA scum for that matter but I don't see why he's ruling him out.

[Elyse]

By wary I meant wary about if he's town or scum. Poor word choice.

I was talking about our thoughts re Taly

[Elyse]

METAL HAS ESCAPED BEING LYNCHED TWICE NOW.

I refuse to believe we ran up townies on every wagon. It would make most sense if metal is scum.

I could see Bella scum too because of what eektor said.

I think I would be killed if there was a no lynch tbh.

[Elyse]

Eelyse, could you bullet your case on metal?

Sure.

At first I townread metal for not knowing that the game wasn't open, but then he immediately believed that RC was an "adorable cop" or something ridiculous like that. I feel like scum are more likely to believe a townie's claim no matter what because they know the person is town and probably isn't lying. Him showing no skepticism whatsoever was very strange. So I think his ignorance wrt to general setup and roles is either a wash or leans scum.
Other things:
-votes RC for a "joke", but keeps vote there after realizing it was a joke
-calls tool, eektor, and myself lurkers, showing he's not actually that involved in the game
-wanted to lynch an un-CC'd cop Day 1
-willing to lynch anyone as a VT except for IL
-lots of complaining about there being no conversation, but not starting one himself
-misreps me by saying I am advocating we ignore Boon, then tries to pass it off as a reaction test

[Elyse]

I don't really see the point in a no lynch either but meh I don't care. I think it might actually be better if we don't no lynch because, assuming there are three scum, at least two townies have to be on the lynch wagon for it to go through as opposed to one. So one stubborn townie can't lose the game should he or she vote town.

[Elyse]

D'aw thanks. Unfortunately I'm not scum. I wish I was though lol.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Metalcyanide

Remember that time metal townread me after his "reaction test" and I continued to push him and all of a sudden I'm scum?

Yeah same.

[Elyse]

@Elyse, TheDudeAbides

: I think you're both town, and you have strongly conflicting reads on Metalcyanide. Whichever one of you is right, convince me and the other one, or we lose.

I think the obvious first place to go is for TheDudeAbides to take a look at Elyse's case, most recently posted in #1668.

I fully intend to contribute to this discussion, as should others, but you both appear to be very sure - and despite my frusturation at the thought a townie might think #1681 is a good idea, I am no longer sure.

VOTE: Metalcyanide

Remember that time metal townread me after his "reaction test" and I continued to push him and all of a sudden I'm scum?

Yeah same.

Remember that Metal was scumreading Mykonian. After a townflip there it is not unreasonable that some of his previous townreads might alter.

I've made my case abundantly clear since the end of day 1 and metal continues to scrape by. I would like to see TDA try to justify a townread on him. Your townread on TDA is interesting to me.

Metal isn't scummy for changing his read, it's because of his reasons. He could have used the same reasons yesterday but he townread me yesterday. The only town player I have pushed is Taly and if he's arguing that I'm pushing him and he's town (which he's not), then why didn't he use that as a reason yesterday? He's desperate.

[Elyse]

TDA is someone I've had trouble reading. I generally like his content, but his style of posting a bunch of times in a row to catch up and never really going back and forth with people makes it hard to read him. There is a small amount of paranoia that he and Aqua are scum together and are buddying me and feeding into my metal read but I don't think that's the case. Aqua's townread of him is just a little unnerving because I find it hard to read TDA, but maybe it's just me. And like Aqua said, with the way this town has been playing I wouldn't even be mad about it.

TDA is someone I would probably freak out about in LyLo but would be town, most likely.

I think scum is probably metal/eektor/Boon or metal/eektor/Bella. I don't see tool scum at all and Aqua is 99% town. If I had to guess and we made it to 3p LyLo, it would be some combination of {Bella, Boon, eektor, TDA} and all I'll say about that is I'll be glad to be dead lol.

[Elyse]

I'm willing to go for a Bella or Boon lynch.

@Elyse I know you see metal as scum. Do you think that whole not voting for IL, was him WK'ing a townie instead of him defending a scum buddy?

I'm really not sure. If it comes down to it, I think Bella's handling of Metal will be very telling.

[Elyse]

My read on tool is similar to my read on myko and I was right about that. I also have experience with tool and this feels like his town self.

[Elyse]

No he lost to my scum game. He feels the same here. Tool is a very cautious and methodical player.

I don't see how metal's switch onto me is town. It doesn't follow a logical town thought process. He threw his townread on me out the window and voted me for continuing my push on him.

[Elyse]

I don't even remember tool in that game tbh.

I think metal is just desperately trying to save himself and the best way to do that is discredit his attacker.

[Elyse]

Those two games you looked at are two of my fave games <3 I love being scum.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Elyse

Why

[Elyse]

Good points about Bella.

I really want Boon to explain his vote on me and why he's not supporting a no lynch if he's wary of me.

[Elyse]

I am fine with lynching Boon today.

Scum team is Boon/metal and {Bella, eektor} most likely with TDA as an outside possibility.

[Elyse]

Boon and metal and (Bella eektor) sorry.

I don't believe someone could be so disinterested in the game to throw a potentially game losing vote on a random person for no reason. He had to know in the back of his mind it wouldn't mean anything.

[Elyse]

That's a good point but Boon was also scumreading metal but never voted him despite him being the counter wagon to his super townread Myko. I think he was buddying myko and wanted him to turn around and lynch you or tool.

Or maybe I'm giving him too much credit. I would be more comfortable lynching metal though.

[Elyse]

Again I don't see him as town placing that vote on me. With metal's vote on me earlier, should the scum team be some other group of three, the game would've been over. And if even Boon was disinterested, why not vote for tool or metal or Bella or you? I was one of the few people he wasn't scumreading.

And my scumread on metal is basically just as strong. Maybe I'm dead wrong about one because they don't fit well together but then again maybe I shouldn't base my scumread on that just yet.

[Elyse]

Go ahead

[Elyse]

@TDA
Scum are more likely to believe a weird claim by town because they know the person is town and has no reason to lie.

My townreads on Aqua and tool are stronger than my townread on you so that's why you're on my list but I'm confident the scum are in the pool are {Boon, Bella, metal, eektor}

@eektor
I think TDA's activity today has been protown, especially compared to the content of Bella, Boon, AND metal. I don't understand going after him for asking questions when there are three people who are barely doing anything. (Bella is doing a little I guess) If scum are hanging back and letting a wagon develop, I would look there first.

[Elyse]

You're gonna need to explain those. So your vote on me was serious? And you did know what was going on? Huh.

[Elyse]

Preach

[Elyse]

Yeah...not really digging that lol

[Elyse]

I want to lynch metal but tool wanting another vote on there is making me uncomfortable.

[Elyse]

It just made me uncomfortable because it looks like you're trying to get two townies on a wagon. And then a potential scum team could hammer.

It's not changing my read on you but it gives me pause. You are right in that we have to lynch someone sometime though.

Reading Aqua's stuff now...

[Elyse]

VOTE: Bellaphant

I think this is the way to go.

[Elyse]

Stupid question: could boon's weak/odd case on tool, paired with tools kinda non reaction to it, mean instead of one of them being town, as I thought, they are both scum? I'm gonna have to Re-read it. If that is the case, eek maynt be scum. @aqua, the last two pairs in the post above: are they necessarily scum v town, or just not scum together?

This is subtly aligning her reads where the wind seems to be blowing

[Elyse]

Yeah, I got that. The way she hasn't really acknowledged the pressure against her is bizarre and I'd like to believe a townie would have done so.

That too.

Why do you have a bad feeling tool?

[Elyse]

Also, he's seemingly taking pressure off of Bella

, where his two scum partners are voting so that others feel more comfortable about voting Bella today, so he can go in and be the hammer. Scum 101, come on guys.

I think that's exactly what you're doing.

Boon/Bella

[Elyse]

Wooo!

Gj Aqua! It was really fun playing with you. And of course great work tool and TDA!!

Monkey you did a nice job modding. I thought the setup was a little town sided but with two PRs dying before day 2 and the other killing a townie, they weren't too troublesome.

Perfect scum win!

[Elyse]

Oh and I want to apologize to Taly. You didn't play that poorly at all but I knew that I would look terrible if I backed down so I had to stay on you. The only advice I would give is that you shouldn't base your reads on how people read/treat you. Case in point: mykonian and I treated you about the same and he was town; I was scum. Other than that, you were fine and had some nice contributions.

I thought eektor picked up tremendously at the end and Aqua was strong throughout.

Another thing that helped scum was that the two NKs were basically chosen for us already, preventing NK analysis. There were more factors obviously, but that is often underrated.

[Elyse]

I didn't like the twilight. I like it when someone is lynched and the thread closes immediately. It also made me think there was a vengeful or something.