Mini 1697 - a Re-balanced Game of Mafia - GAME OVER

[Netherspite]

VOTE: Firebringer

Because fire is dangerous.

[Netherspite]

RQS are usually scummy. However I'll wait with drawing conclusions yet.

Answers:
1. Quite a lot in person and in sc2mafia, few games at MS.
2. I'm usually highly active. If there is anyone to talk to of course.
3. I wish I was. I was lucky enough to draw scum only at Marathon games so far.

[Netherspite]

1) This is my third on this site, I have player many in person, 100+ games of ToS and played 3 on another site
2) idk pretty active
3) Yes

So you claim scum?


Also, my avi has nothing to do with Pinoccio.

[Netherspite]

You didn't answer. Do you claim scum?

[Netherspite]

3) Check your role pm, all the scum are listed in it.

Best answer! I like you.

[Netherspite]

You didn't answer. Do you claim scum?

yes

VOTE: TheDominator37

Then you have to die.

[Netherspite]

@TheDominator37

We'll start with you.

@pistachi0n

Are you claiming scum as well?

[Netherspite]

You are not allowed to discuss other games here. Prolly you'll get modkilled

[Netherspite]

You can discuss completed games, not the ongoing.

[Netherspite]

@Firebringer

He claimed scum.

[Netherspite]

Every joke has a fraction of the truth.

[Netherspite]

Not this time I guess. And you're his scumpartner? Why defending him so much?

[Netherspite]

I don't really care about your faked scum list.

[Netherspite]

@RadiantCowbells

What do you think about

TheDominator37

?

Firebringer

is awkward but I'm not sure yet about him.

[Netherspite]

Honestly I think it's TvT between

RadiantCowbells

and

Alchemist21

.
Please stop it and lets lynch scum instead.

[Netherspite]

@RadiantCowbells

You're town and I'll be against your mislynch.
Lets please focus on scumhunting.

@Alchemist21

If

Firebringer

is scum (you classified it as 'may be') why would

RadiantCowbells

vote him and push him?

[Netherspite]

@Quaroath

Why so defensive?

@RadiantCowbells

Do you really think it makes sense to lynch townie over scum just because that townie voted you and you're afraid of being mislynched later?

[Netherspite]

VOTE: Firebringer

I don't believe you forgot who are you voting.
Your excuses look like scum faked his reads and forgot to vote.

[Netherspite]

@Quaroath

RadiantCowbells

is may be playing not really good but I don't see it as scummy.

[Netherspite]

RadiantCowbells

's wagon is scumdriven.
I'd like town to be aware of that and think twice before mislynching him.

[Netherspite]

The wagon consists of:

• Firebringer
  , who is scum.
• Alchemist21
  , who is OMGUSing.
• Quaroath
  , who I get scumvibes from.
• you, who look like opportunistic scum.

How is it not scum driven?

[Netherspite]

I never said

Alchemist21

is scum, I just said that his vote is an OMGUS vote and thus does not have really strong reason under it.
Also, considering me being scumpartnered with

RadiantCowbells

is pathetic. You can only say so because you're trying to scumpaint me because I'm voting you and you as a scum do not want any limelight on you.

[Netherspite]

As pointed out, Alch voted first. So it obv isn't omgus. VOTE: netherspite

Oh well he voted first, but they had extended argument before that happened so I still would consider his vote more emotion-based than logic-based.

===

Anyway, latest argument between

RadiantCowbells

and

Firebringer

makes me no longer liking my vote on

Firebringer

. It feels TvT.

I'll move my vote to

eventi

as he looks like an opportunistic scum.

VOTE: eventi

[Netherspite]

Actually read my posts in that argument then still tell me it wasn't logic-based.

I did read your posts as well as his. It was TvT.
Vote was emotion-based.

In 116, Dominator said it had no reads. At that time the votes were all spread out, with no wagon having more than two votes. Then in 146, with RC's wagon now the big leader with 4 votes, Dominator naked voted RC. There's no sign of progression from Dominator having no read to having a scum read on RC. I think Dominator is scum trying to hide on a popular wagon.

He is as opportunistic scum as

eventi

is. They both voted popular wagon just because it is popular.

[Netherspite]

eventi

I see nothing wrong with working together and defending someone who I townread and who is at the risk of being mislynched by the opportunistic scum like you.

And yes your vote was opportunistic considering you did nothing the whole game before an easy wagon appeared and provided little to no arguments supporting your stance.

[Netherspite]

Your last post was 5PM the day before, he calls for you and you reply within 8 minutes?

Btw, it was 23:00 previous day, not the 17:00

[Netherspite]

It didn't start with me.

That's exactly why I call you opportunistic scum.
1. Wait for the easy mislynch wagon to appear.
2. Hop on it.
3. If someone questions you - just say "it wasn't me who started it!"
4. PROFIT!

Little to no argument? I guess if you don't want to read it there's nothing I can do about it.

I've read your "arguments" I just don't find them strong enough for the vote.

Spoiler: Whoa, TIMEZONES!!!

But that's not important. It's a red herring - the interesting bit was how you hadn't been posting for hours, and then come running 8 minutes after RadiantCowbells comes calling. Woof!

Yeah, timezones.
Surprisingly, not everyone lives in the NA.

Anyway, using timing as an argument in such a slow games like MS with people being busy IRL for large periods of time is just meh.

[Netherspite]

@eventi

You do not make any sense in that case.
"It didn't start with me"? Me defending

RadiantCowbells

wasn't started by you? Really? So what?

[Netherspite]

Okay Nether you are putting words into Eventi mouth.

How exactly?

[Netherspite]

@eventi

You do not make any sense in that case.
"It didn't start with me"? Me defending

RadiantCowbells

wasn't started by you? Really? So what?

I'm starting to think you're incapable of logical discussion

You're either completely insane or forgetting what you just said.
Care to explain what did you mean here:

eventi

I see nothing wrong with working together and defending someone who I townread and who is at the risk of being mislynched by the opportunistic scum like you.

It didn't start with me.

If this is not "his wagon didn't start with me" and not "defending him didn't start with me" then it should be something completely insane and weird.
I am losing the flow of your 'logical discussion'.

[Netherspite]

Actually I am starting to think we're reading two completely different games because I really can't see your points (

eventi

and

Firebringer

) and you seem to be really not having an idea of what I'm talking about.

[Netherspite]

@eventi

Well, you phrased it the way I couldn't understand correctly.

Anyway, I never said "to defend against you who are scum". I said "to defend against scum like you" where "scum like you" is a list including other players.
Also, this does not change the fact that your jump on the wagon was opportunistic.

[Netherspite]

Nether and eventi are looking like scum buddies VOTE: nether

Never heard more funny jokes.

[Netherspite]

Reading "Dostoyevsky" is easy
For a native speaker at least.

Anyway,

TheDominator37

is not making any sense since the beginning.
His last post actually makes me feel a bit better about you.
Not ready to move my vote though.
Need to re-read couple of ISOs.

[Netherspite]

I see nothing wrong in agreeing with thoughts I like.

[Netherspite]

If a Jeser was possible I'd think

TheDominator37

is one.

[Netherspite]

EBWOP: Jester.

[Netherspite]

So PMysterious you have any reads? This feels like your first post in the game. I had to actually look back and see that you were in the game.

Been very lurking this game.

So far I think Nether and Raidant are most likely scum or at least one. If only one then I have no clue on the other. Perhaps dupin.

Anyways going to V/LA till Sunday. Will try to post 1 or 2 times till then, but no promises.

OMGUS is strong in this one.

[Netherspite]

Netherspite, you don't find any problem with that vote? I know we're supposedly enemies, but you gotta see that PMysterious' vote was kinda bullshit for the same reasons you gave against my Radiant vote. If gameplay is supposedly the reason you're voting me, you gotta be livid about PMysterious.

His vote is opportunistic as well.
I don't like it.
I just don't see any point in commenting on it as I still want to see your flip more (because it'll give more information).

[Netherspite]

I think this is a legitimate town-slip from Firebringer.

I don't think he really meant that there are exactly TWO scum in the game.
He just meant that both of us could be scum in his opinion.

[Netherspite]

@All Alone

TheDominator

is obvious scum since beginning of the game.
I'm just trying to find more obscure scum because we can always lynch

TheDominator37

. I doubt town will need any more to be convinced lynching him.

[Netherspite]

So PMysterious you have any reads? This feels like your first post in the game. I had to actually look back and see that you were in the game.

Been very lurking this game.

So far I think Nether and Raidant are most likely scum or at least one. If only one then I have no clue on the other. Perhaps dupin.

Anyways going to V/LA till Sunday. Will try to post 1 or 2 times till then, but no promises.

OMGUS is strong in this one.

Where is the OMGUS in this post?

He scumreads those who were pushing him.
Ain't it the essence of the OMGUS?

[Netherspite]

It wasn't based on timezones, that was Netherspite's assertion. I said it was suspicious that after being away for 12+ hours Nether popped out of nowhere when Radiant called. Nether picked on me using my local time in my post which was a mistake, but not relevant to my argument.

Actually, timezones stuff makes the whole argument invalid: it's obvious I stopped posting at 23:00 because, well, I was going to sleep.

[Netherspite]

@eventi

I am usually reading new posts as soon as I get e-mail notifications.
I also often post responses after reading the new posts.
For example now I'm posting within 7 minutes after

TheDominator37

's vote on you because I've just got the e-mail notification about it.
There is no mystery in that. No following like puppy or w/e. Just the e-mail notifications.

[Netherspite]

Could we like not kill me
I'm town
Instead we could kill cowbell or nether

Mislynching town instead of lynching scum?
Thanks but no thanks.

[Netherspite]

Dominator basically scumreads everyone as soon as they get a vote.

He's honestly too scummy to be scum.

I don't see the point for the townie to act like him.
Neither for scum.
He looks like a troll or something.

[Netherspite]

I think I've got an idea why does

TheDominator37

act that scummy.
Since he is caught scum he is trying to stretch it beyond any recognition to hide his partners in the shadow of his scumminess + to not provide any association tells.

[Netherspite]

So rather than defend himself, he has decided to give up and just not give association tells? Yeah, I don't think so. That seems like a horribly forced conclusion.

He's new and decided that he fucked it up already too much.
I see nothing wrong with that.

[Netherspite]

So rather than defend himself, he has decided to give up and just not give association tells? Yeah, I don't think so. That seems like a horribly forced conclusion.

He's new and decided that he fucked it up already too much.
I see nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, I mean its like he is begging to be lynched. He has given no effort basically and doesn't fight back at all to the people accusing him.

Feels like bad town rather than bad mafia.

Also you expect someone who is being this scummy to be good enough to plan out the fact he won't give association tells?
Really?

It's not that hard to plan that.
More interesting fact is you defending him despite all his behavior.

[Netherspite]

Ignore the troll, we can lynch him at any time later.
Lets lynch some other scum today.

[Netherspite]

The deadline is 5 days from now.
I'd prefer to see

eventi

wagon growing.

[Netherspite]

@Alchemist21

I was what? Misrepping? You must be kidding.
Care to elaborate?

[Netherspite]

@Alchemist21

I was what? Misrepping? You must be kidding.
Care to elaborate?

You said my vote was emotional-based and OMGUS whenit was neither of those things, and you tried to water down Eventi's argument into something based on time zones when it wasn't about time zones at all.

Except I wasn't misrepping anything.

Your vote was emotional based (as well as the one on me now - you vote me because you're upset that I do not agree with the motivation you're claiming you had).
And problem with

eventi

's argument wasn't with timezones but rather him trying to paint me like doing things I didn't. Yes he used timezones stuff as a part of his invalid argument but it would be invalid even if he didn't.

[Netherspite]

@Firebringer

You do not make any sense like usually. Reading posts back to front is kinda hard considering I read them every time I get the e-mail notification. Unless you suspect me in time travelling to read new posts before the old ones of course.
You're either scumpartner of

eventi

like I guessed before or this is caused by you being new. Either way, it has negative impact on the town.

Still, I'd like to see

eventi

's flip first.
I'm 95% sure he's scum and it will help building associative links a lot.

[Netherspite]

I think it's a shame we're letting TheDominator get away with his behavior

That's why you're voting

Thesp

instead of him?

Also, what exactly happened between #290 where you call him just a clown and #316 where you seem to be first time suspecting him?

[Netherspite]

@Netherspite you have failed in your arguments so many times, you say I am associating with Eventi, fine w/e we are aligned on vote. That is about it, I guess I 'defended' but here you are defending Radiant and you claim town so way to have double standards. Although I do think you two are either partners or one of you is bad.

I never failed in my arguments in this game. If you believe the opposite then feel free to point it out.

Association tells only make sense when you have a scum flip.
I won't flip scum and you will. That's the difference. No double standards here.

[Netherspite]

You decided to comment on

Thesp

's opinion about my questions rather than answer them?
I'm taking back my estimation of your scum flip. It is 99%, not 95%.

[Netherspite]

On the contrary, Netherspite needs more votes.

If you still scumread me and townread

eventi

after his latest posts and you're town - you must quit this game really.

[Netherspite]

I'm not sure I'm ready to buy

TheDominator37

's gambit.
Scum could do that.
I can even see the scumteam of him +

Firebringer

+

eventi

doing their best to distance.
Still, I don't want to lynch him today.

eventi

is the best candidate for the lynch because of the highest chance to flip scum + highest amount of information after the flip.

[Netherspite]

The problem is that he's replying to something I didn't say. It's a straw man argument. I asked why he was defending RC and he said lol because your scum and I said it didn't start with me, meaning he wasn't just defending against my suspicion of RC.

I think he intentionally misrepresented me there, and I'm afraid it worked on you.

We already sorted that out as misunderstanding and as others understood you like I did it is clearly not intentional misrepresenting but rather your incorrect phrasing.
I don't see why you raise it now as 'intentional misrepresenting' besides attempting to scumpaint me to save your hide.

[Netherspite]

While Eventi and Alchemist could be a scum team, I think more likely its Nether/Radiant with another two players.

This train on Eventi will not give us the most information as you say Nether. The lynch give us most info is you or Radiant.

What information exactly will you get from our town flips?

[Netherspite]

While Eventi and Alchemist could be a scum team, I think more likely its Nether/Radiant with another two players.

This train on Eventi will not give us the most information as you say Nether. The lynch give us most info is you or Radiant.

What information exactly will you get from our town flips?

That some people on our train for you are scum?

Same information that we actually get from lynching Eventi if he is town.

You say Eventi is a better Day 1 Lynch. I completely disagree, I think that is 10x more likely to be a mislynch than you.

You are scum and trying to divert it to Eventi.

And those people on my wagon who is scum are?

[Netherspite]

You, Radiant, and Thesp.

I think pistachio is the misguided town.

None of them are on my wagon.
You said that when you'll see my flip the information will be that some people on my wagon are scum.
There are currently you,

eventi

and

Quaroath

on my wagon.
I asked who of them is scum?

[Netherspite]

Sorry, it's

Alchemist

, not

eventi

.

[Netherspite]

VOTE: eventi

This is L-1 (I suppose you forgot?)

All you need is RadiantCowbells or PMysterious - good luck

What happened to me?

[Netherspite]

VOTE: Netherspite since the Dominator train isn't leaving the station.

Didn't you just say that we need to lynch one of

PMysterious

and

RadiantCowbells

?
You do not make any sense.

[Netherspite]

VOTE: eventi

This is L-1 (I suppose you forgot?)

All you need is RadiantCowbells or PMysterious - good luck

Starting to wonder about your reading comprehension skills, Nether

Enlighten me if I got you wrong.

[Netherspite]

All you (Thesp) need (to lynch me) is RadiantCowbells or PMysterious - good luck

Okay, now I see what you meant.

[Netherspite]

Hello. Will catch up tomorrow. Elevator speeches on the main wagons would be helpful. Thanks.

Hi!
I am a bit paranoid about you being undetectable scum after your performance in the game I was modding I hope you got town role PM.

[Netherspite]

Eventi's town.

Let's do Firebringer?

I'd also support Dom just to get a lynch through on someone who isn't Eventi.

Why is he town?

[Netherspite]

@nether: who would be your net lynch choice after eventi?

Depends on his flip.
I'll re-read the game during the night phase if we'll lynch him and make a decision.
Right now I'm scumreading him and

Firebringer

.
You also made interesting points about

Thesp

, may be I was giving him too much towncred for sharing my opinion on most of the players.
I definitely have to re-read some of the ISOs.

[Netherspite]

Notes pp 11 - 15
All ALone still focused on Dom. Don't like duppin's 251. Dom self votes? Should be forced to use a Cleveland avatar...you're a disgrace. I'm really not liking thesp. His posts lack real original content but sound reasonable. If he's scum, he's the kind that's hard to lynch. At this point I think the cop should investigate thesp tonight. Duppin makes a more substantive post but it's mostly based on pre-flip assicatives. Good entrance by davesaz. I agree that the scum reads coming up seem too easy. Oh wow, forgot pistachio was in this game, but he's like that. eventi's 290 seems sincere for some reason. duppin, way to put pressure on the guy already under pressure. Where are these votes on nether coming from? If he's scum, he's doing a good job of towning it up. Currently preferring a dom lynch to eventi. eventi is sounding like a town who screwed up and is resigned to the mislynch, while dom sounds like panicked scum, and either one would provide info. wow, nether is leading wagon. SNAP - dom claims the idiocy was all a trap!

p-edit: nether, I meant today,

instead

of eventi.

I'd go for

Firebringer

if there will be no interest in lynching

eventi

.
I believe

eventi

will provide more information though.

[Netherspite]

@Persivul

I decided that he's just a newbtown for now. May as well change that opinion later.
However, you asked the right question.

@TheDominator37

Elaborate on the results of your gambit please.

[Netherspite]

@Persivul

Who would you lynch over

eventi

for today?
How would you interprete his (

eventi

) scum flip? His town flip?

[Netherspite]

Elaborate on the results of your gambit please.

I did

No, you said who you thought was scum as a result but nothing about why.

@TheDominator37

Yes exactly.
I'd like to see an explanation and to follow your train of thought.

@Persivul

And again, in case it was missed in my catchup, thesp was pinging me the whole time. His posts sound reasonable but tend to lack original content. This is the kind of scum that's tough to catch, so I think he'd be a

good target for the cop investigation tonight

.

If you got scum role PM you will be scum tough to catch as well
Well, I think we'll have to sort you out later.

@eventi

Could you summarize your case on me again?

[Netherspite]

Ok lynch eventi Because he is scum and if you still think I am scum you can invest me tonight

This post pings my scumdar...

[Netherspite]

@eventi

You didn't answer.

[Netherspite]

Nether you make no sense

Lolwut?

[Netherspite]

@eventi

You didn't answer.

I'm not going to. Why are you asking?

Because I believe you can't really answer.

[Netherspite]

@eventi

Could you summarize your case on me again?

@eventi

You didn't answer.

I'm not going to. Why are you asking?

Because I believe you can't really answer.

In saying "summarize your case on me

again

," you're acknowledging he's presented a case on you already, so why should he repeat it? Look it up. I did, and reference some of it in my ISO analysis of him.

He didn't really summarize it, "again" was a sarcasm.
He's voting me for a while without really having a case (there was a point or two which I refuted but not a solid case).

[Netherspite]

@Persivul

Do you have any town games where you replaced in during D1 ?
Mind linking if so?

[Netherspite]

@Persivul

Do you have any town games where you replaced in during D1 ?
Mind linking if so?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61639

Note that I replaced into a hot slot in that one.

Thanks, reading.
So far your behavior in this game matches it in the game I was modding rather than in this game where you were town.
This is premature statement and can change later. I'm still reading.

[Netherspite]

There's a day and a half left and I just replaced in. I'm taking an eventi hammer as a scum claim at this point.

With 18 hours left, this is rescinded. Looks like everyone set their vote some time ago and don't really care anymore.

We actually have < 5 hours left now, regardless of the timezone.

Thesp/Nether - congrats on getting so many people to vote for me. Thesp with your :hifives: and "not too keen on" and Nether with your head spinning illogical arguments. You've managed to get the apathy and confusion votes locked down.

And congrats to TheDominator for acting too scummy to be scum. Only scum would act too scummy to be scum.

I ask that if you plan on posting at least twice in the next 5 hours, please move your vote to TheDominator. As I was trying to show when I asked who your top two votes are, I believe you have enough votes for TheDominator today whereas my wagon is full of "I guess if it comes to it, I'll vote eventi"

Firestarter - please use lowercase when you talk about me after I'm gone. Branding, dude

And finally, I'd like to hear what you're going to learn / who you're going to look at when I flip town.

If for some strange reason you will flip town I'll consider

Alchemist

and

Firebringer

to be townier than I currently think.
As for scum I will look among

All Alone

,

Thesp

,

TheDominator37

,

RadiantCowbells

.

Persivul

is also under suspicion for me but it does not depend on your flip.

I however still think you will flip scum because your vote does not make any sense and you can't even explain it.

[Netherspite]

I'll restate the reasons I'm voting you:
1. Your opportunistic vote on

RadiantCowbells

.
2. You OMGUSing me, using shitty arguments I refuted as an excuse.
3. You insisting on your vote despite there are no reasons to keep it anymore.
4. Your reads are basically completely different from mine. I am aware this can happen between townies but combined with all the other...

See? It's not that hard at all if you actually

do

have reasons to keep your vote.

[Netherspite]

You consider my logic faulty, I consider your logic faulty... is this a reason for the scumread? I didn't state it among the reason list, did I?
My opinion is your vote was opportunistic and it does not depend on what others think about it, why should it depend? I have my own opinion.

As of dominator, why would I move my vote to someone I'm not really sure is scum? Is your belief he's scum, not mine.

[Netherspite]

3. You may have changed your behavior since I voted, but that doesn't change that you did what you did. One additional reason which I've been very clear on is your faulty logic in your arguments. That has only gotten worse.

I also moved my vote off you LONG ago, hadn't you noticed?

What did I do? Scumhunting? Defending townie from your accusations? It's called playing for my wincon. What's wrong with that?

Well, you changed your vote - another exampe of your opportunistic behavior.

Persivul

came in and kind of turned the game course like he did in the game I was modding. You used that opportunity and started 'scumreading' the player he is attacking to save your hide.
Survivalistic + opportunistic in the single vote.

[Netherspite]

And yes, I am aware that you were 'scumreading' him before but previously you thought that I'm an easier lynch and voted me.
As soon as his wagon gained some momentum you instantly switched back.

[Netherspite]

@Persivul

We can argue for years about whether it was opportunistic or not.
For me, it was. Making a case to have an excuse for your opportunistic vote does not make it any less opportunistic.
Under opportunistic I understand a vote on a player who is most likely to get lynched.

@eventi

Yeah, you hardly said anything yet you decided to opportunistically move your vote back to a wagon which is going to gain momentum.
Also, caring much about your own survival as town is stupid. You can lose even if you survive. You can win even if you don't survive. Your goal is make town catching the scum. If your flip will help that - you should be fine with your lynch.
I am always fine with my lynch if it contributes important information to the town. I was stating it since my first game here and I don't care if someone does not like it. I am still insisting that it's true.
Thus, you being survivalistic is a scumtell.

[Netherspite]

So what? Lots of people do this. You can't possibly scum read them all for it.

It adds to other reasons.
Your defense of

eventi

looks interesting though. I'm now even more sure I want to see his flip for the information purpose.

[Netherspite]

I'd prefer my own lynch over

TheDominator37

because it will provide more information to the town + our personality clash with

eventi

will stop negatively affecting town overall performance.

[Netherspite]

@Persivul

The difference is he ain't really that caught.
Yes some of the votes on his wagon are worrying me. It could be bussing.
I don't see why wouldn't you try to save him - you almost succeeded in derailing his wagon. The only active person on the wagon is me like you correctly noticed so a bit more attempts to discredit me from you and

eventi

and you're done.

[Netherspite]

UNVOTE: TheDominator

Eh not sure what to make of TheDominator and his "play". Very convenient.
But I don't see this train picking up at the moment, so I will put my vote on eventi instead.

VOTE: eventi

Nether, is this a scummy opportunistic vote?

Yes it is.

[Netherspite]

Except I'm town, and I want a flip. I will vote eventi if I have to to get one, and I suspect there's scum on his wagon counting on that and so just remaining silent.

How about the thesp vote on eventi? Opportunistic and scummy?

Regardless of his alignment I believe there is scum on his wagon. I'd bet there's exactly 1 scum.

Thesp

's vote could be opportunistic but I find that unlikely.
He was suspecting

eventi

for a while and did express it earlier. Also

eventi

wasn't the easiest wagon at the moment he voted.

[Netherspite]

I'm really stubborn btw, regardless of alignment.
I'm typical Taurus you know

[Netherspite]

I'd prefer my own lynch over

TheDominator37

because it will provide more information to the town + our personality clash with

eventi

will stop negatively affecting town overall performance.

The only way this makes sense is if you think we're TvT

or

I consider us having personality clash regardless of alignment.

[Netherspite]

IDK man, it's a tough call. I think his persistent use of logical fallacies in our arguments is scummy, but I don't know if he's doing it intentionally. Some people are just illogical.

Me being illogical and using logical fallacies is your opinion, it's subjective and can be wrong.
In my opinion it's you who is illogical.

If he's town he's had his sights on me for so long he can't see anything else going on unless it relates to me. He doesn't even think TheDominator is scummy, and that's troubling to say the least.

See how he says that if there's scum on my wagon they're bussing? It's in defense of his weird position that there's no such thing as a popular vote that's not opportunistic. He can't even consider me town for sake of argument, and that's clouding his judgement a lot.

I have to admit, I'm tunneling here. I sometimes think about it and sometimes I am even starting to have a doubt that I fell into confirmation biased loop. Still, personally I'll get the most information from your flip so even if my tunnel is wrong... It'll help us D2.

[Netherspite]

Logic is most definitely not subjective. When you argue "A therefore B" and I say "A is false" you follow with, "Yeah, but C" which doesn't support your point. That's not subjective, it's a logical fallacy.

First of all, I'd like to see an example when this happened.
Because I don't remember such things.

Also, even in your example there are subjective things like:
a) whether A was really false or not.
b) whether C was supporting the point or not.

[Netherspite]

@Persivul

I found similarities in how you entered the game in a scummy slot with the wordy posts that made the consensus shift significantly.
I do no expect you to lynch your buddies in every scumgame since that game I was modding, that would be stupid.

[Netherspite]

Your towngame was different.
I leave it for everyone to read both the games and see for themselves.
For me it is different.

[Netherspite]

Nah, I can't keep lying. I'm a goon. It was my first time, and I failed miserably. Good job, Nether. You were the only one to see through me.

Thanks for telling it before the flip.
I appreciate it.
I was actually considering switching to someone else for a moment or so.
You did well for your first time.

[Netherspite]

Speaking of the other scum...
I am actually tentative about the

Persivul

now. Yes he is behaving similarly to the other scumgame where he replaced in. However, outright defending the partner is weird scum move. Only if he thought he can turn it. Idk, need to think more.

[Netherspite]

Guys, we're in twilight now. Please keep talking. We have a 'flip'. Your opinions?

[Netherspite]

You're a lot smarter than me, I never stood a chance

Actually I had 'Village idiot' text in my signature for a while
My 'logic' works differently from others. I got mislynched two times or so for that.

[Netherspite]

Speaking of the other scum...
I am actually tentative about the

Persivul

now. Yes he is behaving similarly to the other scumgame where he replaced in. However, outright defending the partner is weird scum move. Only if he thought he can turn it. Idk, need to think more.

By all means, don't start now

Why?

[Netherspite]

@Persivul

Please do not disappear, I'm curious about your opinion on the 'flip'.

[Netherspite]

Townies - I don't think he's smart enough to act this dumb. I finally have my read.

Your words are WIFOM since the hammer

[Netherspite]

I'd prefer my own lynch over TheDominator37 because it will provide more information to the town + our personality clash with eventi will stop negatively affecting town overall performance.

What the fuck is this?

He is a clown. What information will his flip provide?

[Netherspite]

And off my mafia brothers will please do me a solid and DON'T kill Nether tonight... I don't think I can handle being in the dead thread with him alone.

Haha Yeah please don't

[Netherspite]

Well done though, and I still don't think nether's case was good.

I still think I couldn't explain why I felt he's scum good enough.
May be it's language barrier idk.
Something in his early posts pinged me hard and I coudn't get rid of a feeling that he's scum.

[Netherspite]

I was always insisting and will always insist that

town MAY desire to get lynched over someone else

and that

information on D1 > all

. You can lynch me for that if you like. It's nothing new for me to be mislynched for my opinion. But I will keep saying it, I don't care if you don't agree. I'm really tired of arguing about that. That's my playstyle, that's my logic, that's my opinion. Deal with it.

Btw,

eventi

was very good lynch because he was both scum and information-providing flip.

[Netherspite]

There's nothing wrong with voting a feeling, as long as you don't expect me to follow it.

Did I ever say I expect you to follow it? We all have the right to have our own opinion.

[Netherspite]

I believe I already answered answered to this in #612.

[Netherspite]

Sorry that should have quoted 606

Well I still caught you. May be I'm not that good in explaining things but I was right.

[Netherspite]

Nether: That's self-contradictory. Day one is the most important day to reread later on in the game and having one person not directly scumhunting during that is not the most pro-town thing I can think of.

I never said I don't want to find scum. I said we need information. And of all possible lynches on scummy players I'll choose the one that provides the most information if there is no outstanding scummy things to override that.
Dominator is both non informational and not really scummy at this point. My lynch on the other hand would provide tons of information about eventi and others.

[Netherspite]

Speaking of the flip analyzing... I tend to agree that alchemist looks bad after that flip.
Ankamius (ex quaroath) is town.
Persivul (ex pmysterious) is null with scum lean.
All alone is town.
Duppin is likely town.
Firebringer is scum lean.
Others are mystery so far.
Need to think.

[Netherspite]

firebringer

So most of your previous Mafia experience is from sc2mafia?
what's your favorite role there?

[Netherspite]

First of all, I want to publicly admit that I was dumb.
Sorry,

eventi

. Now your twilight behavior makes sense.
I still believe your tunneling me was as dumb as my tunneling on you though.

===

Given those 2 flips, I can no longer see

TheDominator37

as town.

VOTE: TheDominator37

[Netherspite]

I mostly agree with the

Persivul

's posts, however one point is invalid:

There was no cop investigation of eventi and I voted him, so this indicates I'm town.

The argument was that you voted your scumpartners only because they were investigated by the cop.

eventi

obviously can't be your partner so your point is invalid.

[Netherspite]

EBWOP: "with the

Persivul

post".

[Netherspite]

Um, we are not going to lynch TheDominator (at least not right now). That train is most likely scum driven.
I thought TheDominator was town, but I revaluated him after eventi flipped town. His reaction to eventi during the end phase of the day also felt very genuine. I actually do think he is town, but his play yesterday was very questionable.
Anyway, let us be honest guys. What train did you expect scum to push on today? TheDominator's (if he wasn't scum obviously).

I do not like this train, and if you are town you need to figure out who the scum (could be more) is between:
RC, Alchemist and Nether.

I don't think either of

RadiantCowbells

or

Alchemist

are scum.

Speaking of the train, if

TheDominator37

is town then I believe scum has equal incentive to push it as town has. Because his play yesterday was really weird and his gambit looked worse and worse the more time passed since (because he didn't change his play after the 'gambit' and because the results of his 'gambit' were weak). Considering the flips, I highly doubt he's town. So I think he can be genuinely scumread by town (and I do scumread him as town so this adds to the point for me).

[Netherspite]

Why three town can't instantly push a train on a suspicious player? This happens often.

[Netherspite]

I definitely will re-evaluate both them and you.

3 townies can easily vote on another town at the beginning of the day. I can look for examples but you can find them yourself

I'm not buddying anyone, I'm considering them town based on their behavior D1 & in twilight + on the flips.

Speaking of NK, if I were scum I wouldn't kill

Firebringer

. What's the point? He was suspected enough to mislynch him later.

[Netherspite]

Because it makes it easier for scum to push a lynch on TheDominator.

It would be pretty easy to push a lynch on him regardless of the NK because of his pretty scummy play D1.

[Netherspite]

My teammates are alc and thesp. We should lunch tgose two

If they are your teammates and they are scum then you're scum as well? Why shouldn't we lynch you first then?

[Netherspite]

@duppin

So you changed your read on the

TheDominator37

to the opposite because on his reaction to

eventi

's flip only?
Can you elaborate on that?

[Netherspite]

Nether's reaction was good, but it is very easy for scum to fake it.
I want to point out that Nether was very vocal during twilight, called people out to comment on the flip. This could've been an attempt to bring attention to himself. ("hay look at me, I believe eventi's scum claim").

Yes I'd prolly do that as scum as well.
May be in slightly different phrasing but the overall reaction I'd try to fake would be like that.
So I wouldn't call it a 'confirmed town' or smth.

[Netherspite]

What I was saying was that you made a big deal about how you always bus your scum buddies and if eventi was scum, you'd be voting for him.

No, I said that I don't go out of my way to protect my scum buddies. If they get themselves into trouble, they're on their own. In diffusion, I made a mild deflection for NM early, but once he was hot I dropped it. For Jazzmyn I made no defense, even before the investigative results.

Bla bla bla except

eventi

flipped

town

. Thus this situation has nothing to do with whether you do bus your partners or not and at which conditions you do or not.

[Netherspite]

Netherspite I asked you who TheDominator's teammates would be. You've obviously seen my question since you quoted TheDominator's answer to it, so please answer it.

I can see almost anyone here as his possible partners because if he's scum then he seems to be intentionally playing insane to avoid showing any association tells with anyone.
I however think

RadiantCowbells

,

Alchemist

,

All Alone

and

davesaz

are less likely to be scum than others.

[Netherspite]

How exactly am I dodging it?
I gave you complete and exact answer, what else you wanna hear?

[Netherspite]

Bla bla bla except eventi flipped town.

Yes, eventi flipped town - after you railroaded him. I'd think you'd refrain from condescending remarks for awhile. Just sayin'...

I was dumb and I admitted it.
My tunnel on him was partially caused by his actions some of them were dumb as well.
So it was fault of both of us.

Anyway, my remark was in this tone because it is in fact a second time I'm pointing this out and you still posted the thing you posted

after

I noted that your point is invalid.

[Netherspite]

@duppin

Wait. Why next on the list would be

Persivul

and

All Alone

? Why are you completely ignoring other players? Can't they be his partners? Why?

Anyway, my point is his play if he's scum is intentionally misdirecting and confusing to avoid the building of association tells. Thus, any attempts to find his partners are pointless in advance.
I personally do not see any association tells between him and anyone else so I genuinely do not know who can be his partner. I don't see what's wrong with that.

[Netherspite]

No I am not ignoring other players. But these are the most likely players to be aligned with him based on d1.

Why?

[Netherspite]

Why not me for example?
I refused to switch to him from

eventi

.

All the others on his wagon also refused to switch.
Why not them?

[Netherspite]

So basically you just (based on your thoughts you don't like to share) consider some players more likely to be his partners;
then you take my opinion on who is more likely to be scum;
then you take a crossing between those two sets of players and tell me that I think that these players who got into the crossing are his likely partners.
So you basically put words in my mouth using bad logic at the same time.

[Netherspite]

Please stop telling me what to do, kkthx.
I will read D1 again. However not right now.

Your decision on who is likelier to be his partners is may be based on logic (you are not sharing your thoughts so I can't validate if it is).
The problem is you're taking

your

conclusion +

my

conclusion on

different

matters; combine them and put the result in my mouth.
This is completely wrong and I do not understand how you can genuinely be doing it unintentionally.

[Netherspite]

@duppin

As I said, I will definitely reread the game during the next few days because those two flips are changing much in my 'world' as you call it.
At this point my reads are not very useful and my 'tunneling' on

TheDominator37

is not really 'tunneling' because I'm not sure he's scum yet. He is just the only option I am liking for scum right now strong enough for a vote.

I am not going to convince you or anyone I am town. I am never focusing on self defense (as either alignment).
I'm not sure I'd like to work with you because you just used kind of dirty manipulation (not sure if it was intentional) and I'll prefer to work with someone who I like for town more.

[Netherspite]

@duppin

As I said, my problem with your posts was that you combined

your

conclusion +

my

conclusion and put the result in my mouth.
You can't just do that. It's

your

conclusion and it's stupid to expect everyone to think like you.

Speaking of your questions I 'ignored'. I didn't ignore them, I provided you exact answers and explained that before I'll re-evaluate D1 I won't be able to provide any better reads other than the scumread on

TheDominator37

and weak townreads on some other players.
You are asking the same questions over and over again expecting me to miraculously re-evaluate the game without re-reading it? It won't happen.

[Netherspite]

Btw,

duppin

, you ignored my question that

Persivul

is asking again:

@duppin

So you changed your read on the

TheDominator37

to the opposite because on his reaction to

eventi

's flip only?
Can you elaborate on that?

You didn't answer to me, now you for some reason do not answer to

Persivul

...

===

And yes, you did put words in my mouth:

That means (based on your town list), his teammates would be Persivul and Pistachi0n (in your world).

And no, "don't tell me what to do" wasn't an answer to whether I have any other reads or not. It was an answer to you keeping saying that I have to re-read the game (like I don't know without you saying it).

[Netherspite]

Sure it is WIFOM and whatever, but I doubt he would be that obvious.

How probably it is that someone who spent the whole game day playing 'too scummy to be scum' would just do another 'too scummy to be scum' thing?
What? Zero? Please...

[Netherspite]

Yeah, wrong. I answered this when answering Persivul. . You not being satisfied with the answer is a different thing.

As you can see, I'm not the only one not satisfied with your answer. You didn't really answer. Now you did and I commented on it already because I do not agree. I've expected it to be not valid.

Next time read the whole thing. I asked you if this was the case. When you indirectly denied it, I asked you what you believed in then.
I never put words in your mouth, you are just being sensitive.

Nope. You first said that in my world it would be persivul and pistachion like I said it myself while I said completely different thing you can't draw this conclusion from.
And only after that you asked if it is the case as if you were asking if you understood me correctly.
Putting words in someone's mouth and asking if it is the case is still a weird thing.

[Netherspite]

Sure it is WIFOM and whatever, but I doubt he would be that obvious.

How probably it is that someone who spent the whole game day playing 'too scummy to be scum' would just do another 'too scummy to be scum' thing?
What? Zero? Please...

I am sorry, but please read the whole thing next time. I state even if he is scum, he would only do it for town credit. Your point is fairly irrelevant, because unlike you, I cover both possibilities. In either scenario, there is a 99% there is a scum on his train.

So now you changed your point from him being town to scum being on his train regardless of his alignment. Did you change the focus because you decided that you can't convince us in your first claim? This looks bad.

[Netherspite]

@duppin

Let's go through what just happened step-by-step.

1. You insisted that

TheDominator37

is town and said that the reason for this read was his interaction with

eventi

late D1.
2. I asked you to elaborate on that.
3. After refusing to do so for some time you finally said that it's when he asked out loud for the hammer appealing to the wrong deadline and it would be too obvious for the scum to do. You also noted that even if he's scum there would be scum on his wagon.
4. I said that he was acting 'too scummy to be scum' the whole day and there is no reason he would change it at this post you're referencing.
5. You repeat that even if he's scum there's scum on his wagon.

I believe I've understood everything listed above correctly.
If not please point at the wrong part.
If everything above is correct then you definitely switched focus from him being town to scum being on his train regardless of his alignment when you decided you can't prove that your first claim was the case.

Where am I wrong?

[Netherspite]

Duppin is a strong townread for me.

Why?

[Netherspite]

@duppin

So the whole point of our argument with wally posts was to say that you aren't going to explain your townread on

TheDominator37

?...
You could say it in way more short manner. This argument does not make it looking any better.

[Netherspite]

@davesaz

I was eager to believe the flip because that would be the honorary thing for me to catch scum.
Quotes around the flip was to note that flip is not confirmed by the mod.
If I would be not sure in his flip I'd make the quotes double ("). You are fine to not believe me though.

[Netherspite]

The difference is that information lynches is Nether's entire goal on day one.

Wrong.
I just said that I'll prefer a lynch on my scumread that will provide information over the one that will not.
I will also prefer a lynch on my townread that will provide information over a lynch on my townread that will not.
I never said I'd just lynch town over scum just because it'll provide information.

[Netherspite]

The bolded is very interesting when you consider that you posted your willingness to die if it would provide information, despite the fact that you know it would end in a town lynch.

Yes. I said such things before and I'll do it again.
The other option in this case was the player who I was townreading and considering uninformational lynch.

[Netherspite]

Netherspite

, why is TheDominator37 on the likelier-to-be-scum list here?

Because he jumped on his wagon without any good reason just because his "gambit" gave such results + because the wagon was big enough to get through relatively easy.
So, I think he was kinda opportunistic among with others in the list.

[Netherspite]

Looking for scum in today's dom wagon instead of yesterday's eventi wagon is the most backward thinking I've seen in a while.

Assume Dominator is town for a minute. Is this still true?

The difference is with

eventi

we don't need to assume anything, we know his flip.

[Netherspite]

I looked back through and noticed no shift in his posts. Show me what shift you think is there, because as it is now I think Dom was just making up his story about gambiting.

I've noticed only slight shift right after he revealed his "gambit".
Later he returned back to his posting style.

[Netherspite]

@duppin

I find it very interesting that you're refusing to actually consider a world where

TheDominator37

is scum as much as I am refusing to consider a world where he's town.
Besides that, I considered such a world D1 but just found it not matching the game with those two flips.

[Netherspite]

[offtopic]Oh so we're kind of colleagues with

Thesp

. I'm a developer as well.[/offtopic]

UNVOTE:

I am completely dumb this game it seems (or

RadiantCowbells

is scum who is covering his partner by saying there was a cop investigation on him while there was none).
I promised to re-evaluate the game but had lots of urgent work to do these days... Really hate to give such promises and especially to break them. Will try to find some time as soon as possible.

[Netherspite]

If

duppin

investigated

TheDominator37

then he can't be scum.

[Netherspite]

@Mod, I'll be V/LA until Tuesday (have two flights with long connection).

[Netherspite]

I'm currently slowly progressing through my game re-read.

So far I strongly disliked

Quaroath

.

However, later I noticed interesting thing:
Here is the

RadiantCowbells

's wagon at its maximal size:

RadiantCowbells (4): Alchemist21, Firebringer, eventi, TheDominator37

As we know,

eventi

and

Firebringer

are town;

TheDominator37

is likely town.

I find it very unlikely that this wagon could form that easily on townie if it was consisting of townies only.
So basically I think that either

RadiantCowbells

or

Alchemist21

should be scum.
However, their interaction early game felt strongly like TvT. Not sure what to make out of it.
Accept such large wagon consisting only of townies to be formed on townie? In this case I have to agree that this game is largely TvT and we probably should start looking for scum among the lurkers.
Will read further tomorrow.

[Netherspite]

@all

Did anyone else besides

Persivul

play with

RadiantCowbells

previously?
Does his current play match his townplay or not?
I just realized that I took

Persivul

's words for him being town in this game without doubt and I think I shouldn't have.

[Netherspite]

Here is what I currently think:

I can't wrap my head around the world where

Alchemist

is scum. I've re-read his ISO and I honestly believe he's town.
So we had a wagon of 4 townies on

RadiantCowbells

. There are two possibilities: him being scum and scum lurking most of the time.
I can believe in both options.

RadiantCowbells

has weird playstyle and I honestly don't follow some of his thought process. I can see him being scum.
On the other hand, I largely dislike

Quaroath

(and his replacer didn't improve this impression) and I can see scum hiding in the shadows for the most of the game.

I think I can compromise vote on

Persivul

's slot because I know him as a very good scum player who is able to imitate townplay well + his predecessor left very scummy impression. I can see

Persivul

+

RadiantCowbells

scumteam and I believe

Persivul

's flip will help figuring out other players including

RadiantCowbells

.

[Netherspite]

It's not about your recent posts.
Your playstyle was weird the whole game.
My town read on you was based initially on my scumread on firebringer (and he flipped town) and later on persivul words about your playstyle (and I realized that it's not a reliable information)

[Netherspite]

I'm not going to vote

All Alone

. I townread him.

davesaz

's readslist makes no sense and looks forced (like he tried to provide some content without really having any).
I don't like

Not_Mafia

's entrance.

I'm tentative between

davesaz

and

Not_Mafia

slots.

[Netherspite]

Ok so

duppin

was a real cop and

TheDominator37

is a confirmed townie now.

VOTE: davesaz

[Netherspite]

Sorry for the broken bold tags.

fixed

[Netherspite]

@Thesp

What is your case on

All Alone

? I don't see why people scumread him.

[Netherspite]

@Thesp

What is your case on

All Alone

? I don't see why people scumread him.

A lurksack (especially near the end of yesterday's flurry, when both vote leaders were town) who hasn't given off a town vibe and whose response here was scummy as all get out. Is there anything he's done that makes you think he's town? What's your stance on him?

As an aside, I still feel unhappy with how RadiantCowbells ended yesterday, but I'm not sure that's worth litigating now (especially if davesaz turns up scum).

I never actually tried hard to read him but overall I had towny feeling about him.

davesaz

on the other hand was playing kinda weak at the end of the D2 + his reads list was making no sense and was looking like a forced attempt to 'do something'.

[Netherspite]

This is an interesting reversal from "I'm never moving my vote from davesaz". Why the change of heart?

As soon as it was clear that the lynch was between Thesp/Persivul he pretty much vanished from the game, and his read on me has been going all over the place with no real reasons given.

How about I had a flight with a long stop over from the vacation to home right at this time?
Also, I remember I posted something about what I feel about the situation and who am I thinking of voting during the stopover in the airport.

[Netherspite]

I expected to make a final decision and place my vote after the flight but it didn't happen because of your derphammer.

[Netherspite]

There was nothing derpy about that hammer.

NM is a liability to town, flat out, and I have no interest in being randomly voted despite being the only person scumhunting at all.

Read the game I linked you.

Your opinion about lynching bad town is interesting but I personally do not agree with it.
Yes I was lynched by bad town as well.
No it does not mean we should just lynch all the bad townies instead of trying to catch scum.

[Netherspite]

You're headed for a possible perfect scum win if you continue this direction.
IIRC, tomorrow is LYLO if you mislynch me and the doc doesn't get lucky.
I can't determine scum from what we have because there are lazy town voting me instead of thinking.

Okay but what did not allow you to determine scum during D1 and D2 when 'lazy town' wasn't voting you?

[Netherspite]

While all of this looks pretty convincing I don't get why you choose

pistachi0n

over

Thesp

if you seem to be having more arguments against

Thesp

? Or did I get it wrong?

[Netherspite]

VOTE: Ankamius

I don't like your response to

Alchemist

's vote.

[Netherspite]

I wonder how long it'll be before the Dom replacement comes in.

@RC
@Netherspite

What do you two think of my idea in 1115?

I think that the assumption that scum didn't vote each other is very weak because I don't see why wouldn't they.
Exactly because someone would think like you and rule them out easily.
However, I didn't like

Ankamius

's answer + I was finding both him and his predecessor scummy for quite a while so I'm voting him despite I find your assumption weak.

[Netherspite]

@Alchemist21

I think you're town. I agree about

TheDominator37

.
Not so sure about

RadiantCowbells

.

[Netherspite]

@Ankamius

I've already posted why am I voting you.

@Thesp

I tend to think that the scum is among the lurkers and semi-lurkers mostly.

[Netherspite]

@pistachi0n

His slot at the moment of that VC was a lurker.

[Netherspite]

Yes I do.

[Netherspite]

@Ankamius

You said first that if

Alchemist21

flips town then I'm most likely scum.
Later you said that if he'll flip scum then I'm a doomed scum slot.
So basically you're calling me scum regardless of what he'll flip.
Why not vote me outright if you're sure in me being scum more than in him being scum?
Or are you setting up a nice mislynch chain that would lead you to the victory?

[Netherspite]

Netherspite: I was posting my thoughts as I came up with them, but I strongly suspect that you two are scumpartners because there's too many associatives between you two.

Just the way the wagons have moved today is making me suspicious. If I'm correct and the davesaz wagon was a scum-intended wagon today, then an Alchemist21+pistachi0n+Netherspite scumteam would make a lot of sense even before you include all the suspicious stuff in the VCs throughout day 1 and 2.

Association tells before the flip are usually crap as I learned on several mistakes.
The point stays, your thoughts contradicting your previous thoughts make the whole analysis weak. May be there was no evil intention behind it but still.

[Netherspite]

I think we should start consolidating for the lynch because half of the day is gone and the activity is very low.
Those who townread

Ankamius

, can you re-iterate reasons why you do so?

[Netherspite]

I'm not voting Ank.

I suggest others also refrain.

Scumbuddy or misguided town? Hmm...

[Netherspite]

I really like his analysis in #1169, moreso than Alchemist21's analysis in #1115, which is useful and feels townish as well.

Ankamius

's analysis contains contradictions to itself which does not help the analysis to be convincing.
I don't see why you like it.
Mind elaborating?

[Netherspite]

@Thesp

Well you already noticed it yourself after

Alchemist21

pointed it out.
I said it before explicitly, yes:

@Ankamius

You said first that if

Alchemist21

flips town then I'm most likely scum.
Later you said that if he'll flip scum then I'm a doomed scum slot.
So basically you're calling me scum regardless of what he'll flip.
Why not vote me outright if you're sure in me being scum more than in him being scum?
Or are you setting up a nice mislynch chain that would lead you to the victory?

[Netherspite]

I don't see the big difference you're talking about.
In any case you should vote me right now since I'm unconditionally being scumread while

Alchemist21

MAY flip town and you consider that case in your "analysis".

Your insistance on your wagon being scum driven is just a subtle OMGUS attempt and makes no sense.
"Whoever is voting me is scum because how dare they".
The game is never that simple.

[Netherspite]

Lmao

Nice subtle discredit.

Not subtle. I'm saying it open that you are scum.
I don't see how someone can still not realize that.

[Netherspite]

I posted twice now why I'm specifically wanting Alchemist's head over yours.

Yeah you said that his flip will give you huge amount of information like whether I'm confirmed scum or top scum candidate ([sarcasm]there's really so big difference between these two options that you want his head to distinguish between them[/sarcasm]).

[Netherspite]

If you will succeed with my lynch I hope town will be clever enough tomorrow to finally get what I'm trying to point out and finally lynch you.

[Netherspite]

@Town

If my lynch will succeed, go for

Ankamius

, not for

RadiantCowbells

who is most likely misguided town.

[Netherspite]

Town is often wrong as we can see on the

RadiantCowbells

's example.
If everyone who voted two townies would be scum the game would be too easy.

[Netherspite]

Town is often wrong as we can see on the

RadiantCowbells

's example.
If everyone who voted two townies would be scum the game would be too easy.

Yeah, and I guess it's just coincidence that you two were the very first two votes of the Day 2 Dominator wagon, the Day 3 davesaz wagon, and now my wagon, right?

davesaz

ain't confirmed town. Why do you include him in this list? Do you know something I don't?

[Netherspite]

Funny.
You claim that I try to mislynch you like I did to

davesaz

and

TheDominator37

.
I point it out that

davesaz

ain't conftown and thus I don't see why do you consider him a 'mislynch' unless you _know_ that he's town because you're scum.
This confirms you as scum.
Now you try to turn my own argument against me. Nice try but it's obvious for everyone that it's you who scumslipped.

[Netherspite]

Calling it a mislynch wagon implies the wagon is on a conftown.

[Netherspite]

This is ridiculous.
Ankamius scumslips and you say that it's me who scumslipped?
There is no way you can be that wrong as town.
RC is obvscum as well. I was wrong about him.
Any town not voting ankamius today and RC tomorrow is playing against wincon.

[Netherspite]

Netherspite just scumslipped by revealing that he knows that Ankamius is as much confirmed town as Dominator by creating a dichotomy wherein Dom/Ankamius were somehow separate from Davesaz.

Also you are putting words in my mouth.
I never opposed Ank and Dom to Dave. I was continuing Ank's thought and he spoke about Dom and Dave. He put them both in 'mislynchee' list whereas Dave was never conftown and thus Ank couldn't know that his wagon is a mislynch wagon unless he's scum and knows that Dave is town.

[Netherspite]

@Ankamius, RadiantCowbells

You're so obvscumteam guys it hurts.
Your attempts to turn the world upside down and use

Ankamius

's scumslip as a case against me is pathetic.

Let me explain that again so you may be will finally abandon the hope it'll work.
1.

Ankamius

_obviously_ calls himself town and attempts to put himself into the list of the 'mislynch' wagons because he is playing town here and he won't scumclaim (that'd be against his wincon). There is no reason for him to attempt to put

davesaz

in this list together with him and

TheDominator37

because he is defending himself rather than

davesaz

. The scumslippy thing here is that he chooses

TheDominator37

and

davesaz

to fill his list of 'scum-driven mislynch wagons' together with his wagon in attempt to look townier. I can understand why does he put

TheDominator37

here: he's confirmed town. But

davesaz

can be confirmed town only for the scum and thus if he uses him as a filler for his 'town list' he knows something we don't and thus he's scum.
2.

Ankamius

's scumslip becomes even worse when you look at how he responds to me pointing it out. The most obvious answer I'd expect from the town in his position is "I strongly townread

davesaz

and that's why I included him in the list".
What do we see instead? First he attempts to turn the world upside down and accuse _me_ in scumslipping(!) because I included him in that list while I never did. I find it useless to discuss whether he should be included in the list or not because in his scumslip he obviously includes himself in that list, it was the aim of his whole argument: to put himself in the list of townies to look townier. He is there regardless of anything, he'll be there no matter who else he will include in the list. Thus, I never said or implied he's town.
3. After that he is now attempts to turn it upside down in another way: that he meant that it's the wagons looking scum-driven make targets of these wagons town. However, that's stupid argument as well. First of all, if you scumread 2 players you will obviously call the wagons they have started scum-driven. However, it does not mean these 2 players are any more scummy because you called these wagons scummy. That's "A means B, B means A is worse" argument and it does not make any sense. Second, considering your wagon scum-driven is understandable, however there is no reason to build a whole list of 'scum-driven wagons' to support your argument. The only reason to include more wagons in that list is to build a 'list of townies who those evil scum guys attempted to mislynch' and subtly make yourself more townier by including yourself in that list.

Thus, both of his excuses for his scumslip are not making sense and are only making it worse.
Genuine town would respond like I wrote above. His response does not look like town at all.

[Netherspite]

It's you who is turning the arguments upside down to cover your scumslip.

Anyway, it should be obvious to everyone that we just caught 2 scum. Lets start reducing their numbers today.

[Netherspite]

@Ankamius

The tone and manner of that post would make me thinking you're town if you wouldn't keep putting words in my mouth and putting things upside down.

[Netherspite]

@All Alone

I didn't left it out, I rather dedicated a whole point 3 in the post you're partly quoted to address that.
I wonder why did you miss it. Was it intentional?

[Netherspite]

He says that his wagon looks scum driven and thus it's on town.
He's trying to turn it upside down in that passage because initially he said that it was 3 wagons on townies (him included) that me and

Alchemist21

joined. Now he's attempting to cover his scumslip by saying the reverse: that the wagons were scum-driven and that's why

davesaz

is town.
We have a classic A=>B=>A logical fallacy here: "the God exists because that's what Bible says, and the Bible says the truth because it's the word of God".

[Netherspite]

Why would you self-hammer?

[Netherspite]

@Ankamius

That would be absolutely stupid scum move.

[Netherspite]

Or:

Explain how would you claim doc and selfhammer if you were a clever scum and gain towncred for not doing that.

[Netherspite]

If you think that the best scumplay at this point is to claim doc and self hammer after the CC, and if you're so sure I'm scum...
Why didn't I do that thing then?