Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[pistachi0n]

VOTE: WoodyWoodpecker

I don't like that he says he's a bad player, I especially don't like 51 where he says he'll probably do something stupid.

[pistachi0n]

You town read Bella off 5 posts? Uh OK...

I townread you off two and you didn't call me out - what is the issue?

It sounds like he's biased because the town read is on him and he doesn't want to screw that up by calling you out.

[pistachi0n]

What do you think of nacho?????

I do not have a valid opinion on him yet - do you?

Yes

I don't like this interaction. It's early game and if you have strong impressions on Nacho you should share them. You asked that question seemingly out of the blue and are giving no justification as to why.

[pistachi0n]

My interpretation of the Ciara vote is that he wanted RVS and that's as RVS as we can get with these rules. I'm not reading too much into it.

[pistachi0n]

You town read Bella off 5 posts? Uh OK...

I townread you off two and you didn't call me out - what is the issue?

It sounds like he's biased because the town read is on him and he doesn't want to screw that up by calling you out.

No it doesn't, I already answered his question though...

Why haven't you posted anything else? Why ignore everything else going on?

What would you like me to comment on?

[pistachi0n]

What would you like me to comment on?

For starters, you could have answered my questions...

Are you talking about 59? I thought that was a rhetorical question. No, honesty is not scummy. It's scummy to call attention to yourself being a bad player early in the game because it sets up plausible deniability if you do something scummy.

[pistachi0n]

What would you like me to comment on?

For starters, you could have answered my questions...

Are you talking about 59? I thought that was a rhetorical question. No, honesty is not scummy. It's scummy to call attention to yourself being a bad player early in the game because it sets up plausible deniability if you do something scummy.

Do you think being self-deprecating like that is scummy by itself, or would you also need to see it being used as an excuse later?

It would definitely be more scummy if it were used as an excuse later. I think it's only mildly scummy by itself.

[pistachi0n]

Does everyone here have trouble reading? You quoted the questions I asked you in post 125.

Those questions. I'm sorry. You're currently the most interesting thing going on and I'm still forming my thoughts about everything else. I responded by asking you if there was anything specifically you wanted me to comment on, meaning the rest of the game.

[pistachi0n]

t would definitely be more scummy if it were used as an excuse later. I think it's only mildly scummy by itself.

So if somebody said you were a good player and you knew you weren't as good as they think you were, you wouldn't correct them? I really find that hard to believe.

Honestly, no. I'd be secretly shocked and flattered but I'd let it slide by as scum or town. But I see your point. Did someone call you a good player before you said you were bad, though?

[pistachi0n]

Does everyone here have trouble reading? You quoted the questions I asked you in post 125.

Those questions. I'm sorry. You're currently the most interesting thing going on and I'm still forming my thoughts about everything else. I responded by asking you if there was anything specifically you wanted me to comment on, meaning the rest of the game.

Usually people would ask.questions to help gather their thoughts. It looks like you completely ignored the whole thor/nacho/ciara stuff which is also very interesting. Looks like you want to divert attention away from them for some reason cause me being honest about my.play is most certainly not the most interesting thing that has happened. Hell, Karmic lying and being caught in a lie is more interesting than me saying I'm not that good of a player, yet you ignore that also...

Weird

I didn't ignore it, I said the vote on Ciara seemed like the closest you could get to RVS in a game that bans RVS. I don't think it was a good vote but I also don't think there were a lot of good reasons to vote people at that point.

[pistachi0n]

The fruit game? I remember that being a huge messy flurry where everyone was multi posting.

[pistachi0n]

Garmr appears to have not seen 105. I wonder if I commented on a scumslip?

Bella, nice way to dodge the question in your response to 106. How was Nacho's response strange, and how does it help you read him? And I noticed that you call my non-vote scummier but then emulate my behavior. Did you think it was scummy, or are you just trying to motivate me to take a more confrontational approach?

I gave an honest answer and used an example I don't see that's a scum slip. You through aren't really good at hiding the fact that your scum your like two different people.

VOTE: Dave

I cannot plausibly see how 72 was a scumslip but I just finished a game where dave was town and this was the kind of post he made.

[pistachi0n]

Can you link me that game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62630

[pistachi0n]

Thor, is Ciara's play more similar to how she is when she's scum, or could it be explained by her having more experience?

[pistachi0n]

I've heard the argument that explicitly stating why someone's scummy is bad because will tell them how to change if they are scum. I don't really agree with that, because it also is not convincing unless the scumminess is really egregious and most of the time the damage has already been done.

Is that what she's getting at? In that case, it's a playstyle thing.

[pistachi0n]

@Thor My motivation was to try to think through the wagon on Ciara and see it from both sides.

[pistachi0n]

Strongest townread--Probably KarmicGuide
Strongest scum--it's changed to Thor, at first I thought he was just trying to disguise an RVS but his case on Ciara seems like he just wants her out of the game. Maybe he thinks she'll figure him out, regardless, he's looking scummier to me than woody now.

VOTE: Thor

[pistachi0n]

@Nacho re 210: I didn't say it was a scumread. I dislike it, but most of the people I've seen doing it are town.

@Thor re 215: That's just how I play. I don't have a justification, it's just how I try to understand people.

[pistachi0n]

Don't have conversations with me asking me to consider stuff you're making up wholecloth though - it bugs me and I find it meaningless. You can keep those to yourself or others.

I will not do that with you anymore.

Want to vote Ciara now?

No.

[pistachi0n]

I'm reading her null right now. I'm not opposed to a wagon on principle.

[pistachi0n]

Thor, I'm scum reading your attempt to push a huge wagon on Ciara. And like Dave just said, we (probably) have 8 calendar days. I'm not feeling the danger of a no lynch yet. I think what you're doing is a scum driven attempt to get someone you perceive as a threat out of the game. If a no lynch seems impending after a few more calendar days, I will join a wagon that you are not on.

[pistachi0n]

Thor, you're strawmanning the agruments against you. I'm not voting for you because you're trying to start a wagon. That's inane. I'm voting for you because you're trying to start a wagon with bad reasons. The other wagons I'm fine with.

[pistachi0n]

Thor's reactions since the last time I posted seem town. I still don't like the Ciara wagon, but Karmic is a stronger town read. With no posted countdown, I can't bet on it being 2 weeks. So fine.

VOTE: Ciara

[pistachi0n]

I'm finding both cases to be relatively ok for D1 and what is bothering me the most is the vehemence against the wagons on both sides.

Why is this bothering you? In my experience, wagons in day 1 always have vehement opposition.

[pistachi0n]

Bah, my post got swallowed up. @Thor, Looking at the wagon, I don't like pistachon for the way he's hopped onto the wagon, going from not wanting to be anyway near a Ciara lynch to slipping on with the reason of not liking the other wagon - without any provocation and doing so rather quietly (and early in the wagon at 4th place). Don't like how he switches his read on you in less than a page for "looking town" and doesn't really specify or mention anything. Does this seem weird to anyone else?

eventi also seems strange to me, I'm not so sure about the rest. Need to read more.

The two wagons are between Karmic and Ciara. I had previously stated that Karmic was my only town read. I got the gut feeling that Thor's posts were genuine. So I reluctantly switched to Ciara.

I know the rules say 2 weeks, but the lack of a posted timer means it could sneak up on us.

[pistachi0n]

At the point of making the earlier post on which I voted Ciara, I was under the impression the countdown was a surprise. I looked at the rules again afterwards and yes, I felt silly.

[pistachi0n]

@Thor I feel better about my vote now than when I voted her because I'm getting the impression she's chickening. She didn't even claim.

[pistachi0n]

Yeah, she even acknowledged it in her post.

[pistachi0n]

1. Scum points to Nachomamma for advocating a mass claim on Day 1.

2. I agree that three hammer intents were odd, it seems like someone would have hammered before three intents especially because she responded to her prod and there wasn't much time left.

3. I'm a town rolecop and I rolecopped Silver Wolf and he's also a rolecop

VOTE: SilverWolf

4.

I'm a she

[pistachi0n]

*Day 2.

[pistachi0n]

How exactly were Thor's reactions in that segment different from any one of his reactions throughout the entire game?

I was rereading and noticing the exasperation. See 279. My case on him was stupid.

[pistachi0n]

I'm a town rolecop and I rolecopped Silver Wolf

Also, a follow up question for you - why target Silver Wolf?

I was unsure of how to interpret Woody's actions yesterday.

[pistachi0n]

I'm a town rolecop and I rolecopped Silver Wolf

Also, a follow up question for you - why target Silver Wolf?

I was unsure of how to interpret Woody's actions yesterday.

So basically he was like a really strong null read that you doubted an ability to read ever?

Basically, yeah.

Look, either you lynch him and he flips scum, or you lynch me and I flip town and you can confidently lynch him tomorrow. I picked a damn good person to use my power on.

[pistachi0n]

Also, I realize I've mistakenly been referring to Silverwolf as a he and I apologize.

[pistachi0n]

We could lynch outside pistach/Silverwolf and I can cop Silverwolf to see if he's not lying?

That would be a waste of a cop ability when Silver's lynch would clear me and my lynch would implicate Silver.

[pistachi0n]

Yes, Silver and I could be mafia together, but how likely do you think that is? We could also both be town rolecops, but I think that's incredibly unlikely as well. I would understand if we lynch Silver and the cop targets me just to be sure, I don't understand why anyone would think it's a good idea to lynch a third party today while we wait for the cop.

[pistachi0n]

I do have a result on someone if you really want me to say who I checked and why or give my result, I can

Show us what you got.

[pistachi0n]

That's a nasty result to out. Also, still ignoring me Silverwolf? Maybe this will make you talk. VOTE: SilverWolf I think this is the fourth vote on her, so L-3. I may be wrong, on phone now.

It makes wonder if Dave is Silver's buddy. It wouldn't benefit mafia much to out a town role to town, because that makes us less likely to mislynch them.

[pistachi0n]

I have been so wrong this game

Are you covering for something?

[pistachi0n]

Dave? Why dave?

[pistachi0n]

I know exactly who Dave jailed

Anyone planning to question this? I think I'll hold off on the result a bit.

I'm definitely questioning it.

[pistachi0n]

It's the doc+rb variety, and my target was Bella.

In that case I do want to rolecop Bella, and you next if I stick around.

[pistachi0n]

But saying "I know exactly who" is still suspiciously confident.

[pistachi0n]

@Rolecops - could you each clarify what result you get from goons and VTs? Thanks!

I don't know. All I know is that I get role abilities.

[pistachi0n]

With regards to the Pistach and SilverWolf scenario, pistach did claim under pressure, but she also claimed as soon as she arrived in thread and before there was significant pressure on the slot

I didn't know how to get Silverwolf lynched without claiming my role, I figured nobody would listen to me and I might as well do it before LYLO.

pistachion, why did you target SilverWolf?

I already said it was because I was having trouble interpreting Woody's actions. Who would you have targeted?

[pistachi0n]

Yes, I acknowledge

[pistachi0n]

Bella doesn't have powers.

[pistachi0n]

I think we should lynch who Dave jailed and if they're town, lynch Dave tomorrow.

[pistachi0n]

VT here, and jealous of all you PRs.

Pistach, whyfor?

Whoever Dave jailed was either a killer or a killee, so we have a 50% chance of getting scum.

[pistachi0n]

So, it kind of looks like we're crushing the mafia right now, but we need to play to our outs here. What do we lose to?

Are we entertaining the idea that there might be two mafia factions?

What makes you think there are?

[pistachi0n]

I PM'd the mod to ask if I can detect godfathers.

[pistachi0n]

Now that I've thought about it more, the last scum is likely someone who voted for Silver. They probably knew how the flip would turn out and wanted to be on the right side of it.

VOTE: gummybear

[pistachi0n]

I actually think Karmic is more likely to be a nightkill than scum after Day 1.

[pistachi0n]

I actually think Karmic is more likely to be a nightkill than scum after Day 1.

Why would scum nightkill Karmic over a power role?

Maybe they figured one of the PRs would be protected and didn't want to gamble on which.

[pistachi0n]

Zakk says I can detect godfathers.

[pistachi0n]

Zakk says I can detect godfathers.

What sort of result would you get on one?

I assume it would be godfather but I sent another message to be sure.

VOTE: karmic

[pistachi0n]

Yes. I mean, I assume. He hasn't replied to my question asking what a godfather would show up as.

[pistachi0n]

I'm not stupid, Thor. I was answering your question under the impression that role name implies role abilities.

-I am a rolecop.
-So far I have been given role names. But when I received SilverWolf's role as rolecop, it wasn't fucking rocket science to know what a rolecop does.
-I was told Bella has a vanilla role.
-I asked if I can detect godfathers.
-Zakk said yes.
-I assume that means I will be told "they have a godfather role" if I investigated.
-I asked Zakk to clarify
-He has not yet replied.

That is my knowledge.

[pistachi0n]

I'm not stupid, Thor. I was answering your question under the impression that role name implies role abilities.

I guess I'm the stupid one - that seems like two different things to me.

The most accurate thing would be to say I get role type. I was told SilverWolf had a rolecop role and that Bellaphant had a vanilla role. I assume if I got a godfather it would say they have a godfather role. If either of them had any modifiers I don't know about it. I'll let you know when Zakk replies.

[pistachi0n]

I still think karmic is probably town but would rather avoid a no lynch.

[pistachi0n]

You think he's scum but don't want to lynch him? Why?

[pistachi0n]

Am I confirmed in your book?

[pistachi0n]

He said it would show up as a godfather role.

[pistachi0n]

What are the arguments for no lynch?

[pistachi0n]

If we lynch Karmic, we narrow the pool that we have to investigate. Scum probably wants a no lynch so they can avoid scrutiny (if scum is not Karmic)

[pistachi0n]

Also why isn't Bella a viable target for the cop to look at?

[pistachi0n]

Again, a no lynch means no information, a lynch means we're narrowing down the pool even if Karmic is town.

[pistachi0n]

Again, a no lynch means no information, a lynch means we're narrowing down the pool even if Karmic is town.

-boinks your head with a squeeky rubber hammer-
We just discussed sigh i swear your not even paying attention to this game.

A no flip is safer because if scum is someone else and they kill tonight karmic gets confirmed town karmic is town. If he is scum it doesn't matter since he can do nothing as everyone else in the game is confirmed.


I swear the newer players don't use there brains in situations like this.

What prevents the scum from no killing just to screw with us? I recently finished a game where we were in a similar situation and the one remaining scum no killed repeatedly.

[pistachi0n]

I'm not necessarily agreeing to the plan, I just want to know from dave himself who he is jailing so I don't investigate them.

[pistachi0n]

Why aren't you agreeing to the plan?

Because I don't trust y'all.

[pistachi0n]

Fine. That's a good point, it's already twilight anyway. I'll target Eventi tonight.