Mini 1733: Jurassic Monkey - game over

3dicerolling · Post Post #10 (isolation #0) » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:06 am

Vote: Mariomaniac4

OMGUS.

3dicerolling · Post Post #15 (isolation #1) » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:00 am

1) Central Standard Time.
2) I have many games played, but it's been a long time since I've played.
3) Depends on how much homework my English teacher gives

3dicerolling · Post Post #22 (isolation #2) » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:01 pm

It seems like you are being a bit hasty Ice. Why would garmr hint at who he would kill?

3dicerolling · Post Post #33 (isolation #3) » Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:59 pm

In post 28, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:
In post 25, ICEninja wrote:

Archmage wrote:
ICEninja is acting weird. I'm not sure I like "EASY RVS GUISE --> Oh I guess you're town let's vote for someone else I guess..."

There'd be nothing wrong with this as a page 1 case if a vote followed it. Without a vote, it feels like you're giving yourself clearance to hop on an ICEwagon should it form. Slightly scummy.

Or, maybe I'm just pointing out that it's a bit weird for you to have such a strong opinion:

ICEninja wrote:Welp, that was an easy RVS.

Then go, "Aha, it was part of my plan all along," and changing your vote.

ICEninja wrote:No, I read it correctly. I was hoping you'd unvote or attack me in another way in order to attempt to cement your vote but alas you're more likely town based on that response alone.

Unvote
.

Garmr seemed excited that he knew who would be confirmed town. Maybe that excitement came from already having a solid N1 target?

Vote Garmr
.

I don't have to vote to say that. I'm not a fan of voting so early in the game, with so little to work on.

I mean, nobody has much to work on at this point. Why not put a vote out there?

3dicerolling · Post Post #46 (isolation #4) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:10 am

In post 35, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:
In post 33, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 28, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:
In post 25, ICEninja wrote:

Archmage wrote:
ICEninja is acting weird. I'm not sure I like "EASY RVS GUISE --> Oh I guess you're town let's vote for someone else I guess..."

There'd be nothing wrong with this as a page 1 case if a vote followed it. Without a vote, it feels like you're giving yourself clearance to hop on an ICEwagon should it form. Slightly scummy.

Or, maybe I'm just pointing out that it's a bit weird for you to have such a strong opinion:

ICEninja wrote:Welp, that was an easy RVS.

Then go, "Aha, it was part of my plan all along," and changing your vote.

ICEninja wrote:No, I read it correctly. I was hoping you'd unvote or attack me in another way in order to attempt to cement your vote but alas you're more likely town based on that response alone.

Unvote
.

Garmr seemed excited that he knew who would be confirmed town. Maybe that excitement came from already having a solid N1 target?

Vote Garmr
.

I don't have to vote to say that. I'm not a fan of voting so early in the game, with so little to work on.

I mean, nobody has much to work on at this point. Why not put a vote out there?

I'd rather ask "why" than "why not." I err (probably excessively) to the side of caution on lynches. At this point, I've kind of just integrated "excessive day one caution" into my playstyle.

One of the things I do remember from my town experience is that it's important to put down votes early because VCA are very useful later games. Even if the votes are just for pressure or something.

3dicerolling · Post Post #47 (isolation #5) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:14 am

In post 38, Firebringer wrote:
In post 36, ICEninja wrote:Syndesis it's a perfectly fine thing that everyone looks like scum right now. Honestly it's way worse when everyone is looking super town or hasn't yet posted content.

It is par for the course for me to have a number of votes on me this early due to my tendency to make excessively aggressive moves early on.

My wagon seems to be a good place to potentially look for scum as (at a quick recall, I'm on mobile atm and would be a pain to confirm) my wagon has the most activity so far.

I already feel like fire's initial reaction is more town than scum, though I think twice I've seen someone dislike the second vote on me without explaining why. Could one of you expand on what specifically bugged you?

I think they think it was because it seemed opportunistic?

Anyways, I don't know what to think of you, I guess you want to move us out of RVS?
Could be town, unsure.

UNVOTE: Iceninja

UNVOTE: MarioManiac4

VOTE: Firebringer

This smells fishy. I'm not sure I like the precedence of the unvote.

3dicerolling · Post Post #49 (isolation #6) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:39 am

In post 48, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:
In post 46, 3dicerolling wrote:

One of the things I do remember from my town experience is that it's important to put down votes early because VCA are very useful later games. Even if the votes are just for pressure or something.

I didn't find VCA on the acronyms page of the wiki, could you clarify?

Why is it "from your town experience," specifically? Does your scum experience say something different?

VCA is Vote Count Analysis. It's when you get a bit into the game and you back and plug in who flipped what and see who was on what wagon.

Because as town I like to have people place there votes, so later I can come back and analyze it. If scum don't vote early you can't really pin them on any wagon, hence me encouraging you to vote.

3dicerolling · Post Post #51 (isolation #7) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:58 am

In post 50, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 49, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 48, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:
In post 46, 3dicerolling wrote:

One of the things I do remember from my town experience is that it's important to put down votes early because VCA are very useful later games. Even if the votes are just for pressure or something.

I didn't find VCA on the acronyms page of the wiki, could you clarify?

Why is it "from your town experience," specifically? Does your scum experience say something different?

VCA is Vote Count Analysis. It's when you get a bit into the game and you back and plug in who flipped what and see who was on what wagon.

Because as town I like to have people place there votes, so later I can come back and analyze it. If scum don't vote early you can't really pin them on any wagon, hence me encouraging you to vote.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1317
Guess who the scum was here, 3dicerolling?

I said it's something I like to do as town, scum do fake it sometimes though.

3dicerolling · Post Post #53 (isolation #8) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:07 am

In post 52, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 51, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 50, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 49, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 48, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:
In post 46, 3dicerolling wrote:

One of the things I do remember from my town experience is that it's important to put down votes early because VCA are very useful later games. Even if the votes are just for pressure or something.

I didn't find VCA on the acronyms page of the wiki, could you clarify?

Why is it "from your town experience," specifically? Does your scum experience say something different?

VCA is Vote Count Analysis. It's when you get a bit into the game and you back and plug in who flipped what and see who was on what wagon.

Because as town I like to have people place there votes, so later I can come back and analyze it. If scum don't vote early you can't really pin them on any wagon, hence me encouraging you to vote.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1317
Guess who the scum was here, 3dicerolling?

I said it's something I like to do as town, scum do fake it sometimes though.

That wasn't the point! Luna Fox was a townie!
"the only thing i figured out from that was that diego's town."
And Diego was scum!

I can't really say much because I haven't read that game and don't know the context of it, but if you do it right, VCA's offer a decent analysis. That I'm sure of.

3dicerolling · Post Post #68 (isolation #9) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:18 am

In post 54, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:Won't votes that I'm not confident in muddy the waters for VCA? It's not going to be reflective of my true perspective if it's a vote I was arbitrarily pressured into making for VCA, is it?

Maybe not if you're are voting just because I ask you to. I guess I'd prefer you to vote when you actually have something to go off of, but I feel like scum are generally more conservative with their vote because they don't want to get caught on wagons.

In post 60, Syndesis wrote:
In post 36, ICEninja wrote: I already feel like fire's initial reaction is more town than scum, though I think twice I've seen someone dislike the second vote on me without explaining why. Could one of you expand on what specifically bugged you?

That may have been me twice. That vote is poorly supported and directly follows Fire's vote in a wagony, opportunistic manner.

In post 43, MarioManiac4 wrote:Ice is town and will not be the lynch today.

Care to explain or?

In post 47, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 38, Firebringer wrote:[in response to Ice]
Anyways, I don't know what to think of you, I guess you want to move us out of RVS?
Could be town, unsure.

UNVOTE: Iceninja

UNVOTE: MarioManiac4

VOTE: Firebringer

This smells fishy. I'm not sure I like the precedence of the unvote.

"Precedence of the unvote"? Could you clarify that?

Well, Firebringer unvoted right after Iceninja called out a town read on him, which is IMO kind of scummy.

I swear, every time Fire and Ice interact I feel like they're both scum.

In post 64, Syndesis wrote:Someone talk to me about Diego?

What do you want to talk about him?

3dicerolling · Post Post #72 (isolation #10) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:59 am

In post 58, Davsto wrote:oh i got it

Do you have something more to add than just QFT?

3dicerolling · Post Post #76 (isolation #11) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:06 am

In post 74, Syndesis wrote:
In post 69, ICEninja wrote:I'd really like Diego to come in and post some content.

Why Diego specifically?

In post 68, 3dicerolling wrote:Well, Firebringer unvoted right after Iceninja called out a town read on him, which is IMO kind of scummy.

Ah. Thanks.

In post 68, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 64, Syndesis wrote:Someone talk to me about Diego?

What do you want to talk about him?

The icky vote on Ice in 20.

I think there has to be a fine caution between caution and scummy because I know many of the players here are somewhat new or rusty. I would like to hear him elaborate more but I like where you are going with this.

3dicerolling · Post Post #78 (isolation #12) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:33 am

In post 77, Davsto wrote:
In post 75, Syndesis wrote:
In post 73, Davsto wrote:I believe he put the statement infinitely more eloquently than I could. It's easier to quote and say "this is true" than it is to basically restate the entire thing.

Hi. Got anything to add?

Not really. It's page four. I often struggle to get much early on.

You don't have any opinion on fire or ninja?

3dicerolling · Post Post #89 (isolation #13) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:16 pm

Ice - Who is your #1 scumspect right now and why?

3dicerolling · Post Post #93 (isolation #14) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:50 pm

In post 91, Firebringer wrote:Lol, so wait
You rip on Davsto for having no useful reads.
Then you say "i don't got much" then point out the obvious stuff?

You are just a riot.

If you feel so strongly about him, why aren't you voting him? You've pointed out multiple reasons you think are contradictory.

3dicerolling · Post Post #96 (isolation #15) » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:52 pm

In post 94, Firebringer wrote:Stupidity is a town trait sir.

That is false. I played enough games to tell you that town and scum can be equally stupid.

3dicerolling · Post Post #116 (isolation #16) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:46 am

In post 98, Firebringer wrote:
In post 96, 3dicerolling wrote:

That is false. I played enough games to tell you that town and scum can be equally stupid.

Mafia are more informed.
They tend to act more informed.
Thus they tend to act less stupid.

Do you disagree with any of this?

Could you show me some examples of statement two? I'm not sure I follow you.

3dicerolling · Post Post #123 (isolation #17) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:43 am

In post 121, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:@Wanderer-nl

I've played plenty of mafia before, but not on Mafiascum—Mafiascum has its own internal lingo and its own internal meta that's hard to keep track of, though I feel like I'm starting to get a handle on the meta. This is my... I think my third game on Mafiascum? I played a Newbie game, and one other. I also joined a large game, but replaced out fairly quickly as I couldn't keep up with the sheer volume of posting.

I've always been really terrible on Day 1, which is something I've been trying to nail down. Analysis on the first day, where information is scarce, is tricky for me. Most analysis on Day 1 seems to be based on meta, or reads on the particular poster from past knowledge of that poster. I don't have the later, and meta has never, ever sat well with me. I always have hated guessing things based on the metagame, because its in constant flux and has no sense of cohesiveness. It seems like any analysis at this stage is more or less guesswork. I suppose it makes sense—your guesswork makes a base for others to make guesswork off of you, and then somewhere in the process the scum is exposed.

Mostly, my expectation coming into any given game of mafia is to have fun losing.

I understand this feeling from my first few games of Mafia. Day 1 can be tricky, which is why I try my best to separate obv town from iffy players.

If you had one scumread, however small, so far who and why?
If you have one Townread, however small, who and why?

For everyone else who struggle with day 1 I encourage you to make and effort at these questions.

3dicerolling · Post Post #127 (isolation #18) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:33 am

In post 26, Garmr wrote:
In post 21, ICEninja wrote:No, I read it correctly. I was hoping you'd unvote or attack me in another way in order to attempt to cement your vote but alas you're more likely town based on that response alone.

Unvote
.

Garmr seemed excited that he knew who would be confirmed town.
Maybe that excitement came from already having a solid N1 target?

Vote Garmr
.

Ice I was excited because I got actually play instead of not being able to which was looking like the case before. I don't like the bolded comment here it seems like your hunting for a power role this early. Town roles may target the innocent child as well and i think anyone would of thought of this. I feel like this is the wrong attitude to scum hunt for town so I draw the conclusion that your scum.

Looking back, this really makes no sense at all. If Ice was grasping at straws I the beginning, this is really grasping for something. I also feel like garmr is playing rather defensive.

3dicerolling · Post Post #130 (isolation #19) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:11 am

In post 129, Garmr wrote:3dice no just no it's a start of something in RVs but even then it's better than all your points. You couldn't even tell me why its wrong

I just told you why it's wrong. It makes no sense. It had no correlation with what Ice was implying.

3dicerolling · Post Post #137 (isolation #20) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:17 am

In post 131, Garmr wrote:
In post 130, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 129, Garmr wrote:3dice no just no it's a start of something in RVs but even then it's better than all your points. You couldn't even tell me why its wrong

I just told you why it's wrong. It makes no sense. It had no correlation with what Ice was implying.

It does make sense if you look at it. Ice post showed he was saying i was excited about finding a valuable target this is wrong on so many levels. One innocent child would get all the town protections roles/watcher roles it's to risky to shoot for night 1.

If you look at the context of the post, he unvotes, then votes you. If he was implying a pr rather than mafia kill, then why would he proceed to vote you?

Two he didn't say scum he just said I was happy to have a target This means he thinks I can actually do something in the night phase thus he is role hunting this early by looking for people with excited reactions to a innocent child.

No not at all. Like I said, he voted you, so he was suggesting you were scum looking at a night target.

Three you never said why it was wrong with what ice said other than it didn't make sense this is not a suitable answer on this site you have to explain everything.

I don't really care what you think is a suitable answer. If it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense (which it doesn't).

four What startles me is how ices points are really way out there and bad yet you ignore that and try to push me for having a out there vote silent chainsaw for him (chainsawing with out voting)

What startles me is how I stated that Ice was grasping at straws (because it was early game) and you decide to put all these words in my mouth that I never said.

five I would of probably taken my vote off him if he could provide one reason that i think was legit (even through wrong) or just admitted that his vote was there until he could find someone with a better reason. Instead he tried to justify a vote with a stretch in personality saying I was nervous with out pointing out where and why I would be.

I didn't really ask this, so I'm not sure why you are suddenly bringing this up.

3dicerolling · Post Post #147 (isolation #21) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:32 pm

In post 139, Garmr wrote:Dude your taking everything ice at face value with out looking at intentions that's not a good way to scum hunt also no vote on me yet your pushing me whers the pressure

No, I'm looking at the true intentions of his post and not hard tunneling him, and I'm quite fine with where my vote is now.

3dicerolling · Post Post #149 (isolation #22) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:35 pm

In post 140, ICEninja wrote:
OK 3DICE
. I'm going to ask you one last time.
CLIP. YOUR. QUOTES. In post 127 you did NOT have to include all of that in the quotes. You make the pages unnecessarily long and harder to follow. Stop. What you did in 137 is fine but please notate somewhere either directly before or after that bolded font is your response.

The only thing I wanted clipped out of 127 was the "oops" thing. Sometimes when I try to clip quotes I screw up, so I usually tend to not, but I can start for this game.

3dicerolling · Post Post #150 (isolation #23) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:36 pm

In post 146, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:

Syndesis:
Seems to be tunnelling Diego a bit. I'd have to throw a light town-reading, nothing really suspicious that I saw.

Townslip or nah?

3dicerolling · Post Post #155 (isolation #24) » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:15 pm

@Syndesis - It's been awhile since I've played on here. Do mafia get pregame chat?

3dicerolling · Post Post #185 (isolation #25) » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:45 am

In post 181, Wanderer-nl wrote:Obvously I'm scumreading Archmage right now, and Diego isn't looking all too fresh either. Everybody else is either null or slipped my mind.

Do have a particular reason in mind for scumreading archmage? If so could you elaborate?

3dicerolling · Post Post #187 (isolation #26) » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:46 am

@scorpious - Glad you're here now. Is there any particular reason you don't have a vote out?

3dicerolling · Post Post #190 (isolation #27) » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:56 am

In post 188, Scorpious wrote:
In post 187, 3dicerolling wrote:@scorpious - Glad you're here now. Is there any particular reason you don't have a vote out?

I'd like a few of my questions answered before I feel comfortable with a vote. Since I essentially missed RVS,I'd like it to be meaningful.. just just so I have one out.

Okay that's fair. I just want to see more action and votes because some people are lackluster right now.

3dicerolling · Post Post #245 (isolation #28) » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:18 am

Be ready (This means you Iceninja, and I do need these quotes) Large post incoming.

3dicerolling · Post Post #254 (isolation #29) » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:40 am

I'm still not sure about the firebringer/garmr love fest. I feel like one of them is scum trying to hide under the town one, but I'm not sure which one entirely yet. After analyzing many responses and recent posts I'm leaning town on both Ice and Archmage. Looking back, I did find a few people who aroused suspicion in my mind.

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: Firebringer

VOTE: Pistacion

I'm going to wait until I can get a better read on Fire as some of his recent posts kind of tip me off as town, but I'm sure there is a scum between him and Garmr. I'm also leaning scum on Pistacion and Davsto because of there general uselessness and lack of content.

Now Garmr's post

Spoiler:

In post 224, Garmr wrote:I don't really like 3dice rolling at the moment. Something about him makes me feel like his scum. The fact that his parking his vote on fire yet yet hasn't really pushed fire or expanded on his fire vote is really bad. The only interaction after the fire vote was sparked when fire chastised ice for being dumb. 3dice twisted it around to make it look like fire was pushing ice. Then just stats that stupidity is a scum trait as well as town trait after. Which is kinda weird since those two post put together feels like he wants fire to push ice.

I can accept some of this logic. I was holding my vote on him because I was pretty iffy due to his reactions toward me, but like I said, his recent posts throw me off; however, this is a blatant misrep of what I said. I said stupidity is a universal trait (both town and scum) and Fire disagreed. I asked him to point out a case where it's only for town, and he did not respond.

But other than the fire thing it feels like most of his posts are throw away statements. When he does question me through this statement comes off as trying to paint me with a scummy brush

Um no, that's you. Right now.

In post 127, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 26, Garmr wrote:
In post 21, ICEninja wrote:No, I read it correctly. I was hoping you'd unvote or attack me in another way in order to attempt to cement your vote but alas you're more likely town based on that response alone.

Unvote
.

Garmr seemed excited that he knew who would be confirmed town.
Maybe that excitement came from already having a solid N1 target?

Vote Garmr
.

Ice I was excited because I got actually play instead of not being able to which was looking like the case before. I don't like the bolded comment here it seems like your hunting for a power role this early. Town roles may target the innocent child as well and i think anyone would of thought of this. I feel like this is the wrong attitude to scum hunt for town so I draw the conclusion that your scum.

Looking back, this really makes no sense at all. If Ice was grasping at straws I the beginning, this is really grasping for something. I also feel like garmr is playing rather defensive.

But when I follow it up and ask why his not voting me when pushing . He then tries to discredit my read on ice but even after all are convosation he won't even mention a town or scum read. I even tried to provoke him into slipping a vote on me expecting him to take a stance either side. But he continued to remain passive.

Just no. I didn't vote you because I was voting fire, who I wanted to pressure at the time. At that point in the game, I was asking Ice and Arch some questions, trying to provoke a town or scum response. Obviously, by the beginning of this post, you see what my opinion is. Just because I didn't say a read, does not necessarily mean I was not formulating some. And by passive do you mean voting someone that isn't you?

In post 147, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 139, Garmr wrote:Dude your taking everything ice at face value with out looking at intentions that's not a good way to scum hunt also no vote on me yet your pushing me whers the pressure

No, I'm looking at the true intentions of his post and not hard tunneling him, and I'm quite fine with where my vote is now.

Actually looking at it now he got involved with both me and ice yet didn't form a stance on either of us while being active and interacting with both of us is a big nono. Yet his quick to point out others who haven't commented on us.

Yes, I was pointing out others because I want them to get involved because its difficult to form a read when they are not giving opinions. Yes, I did have a stance, but I guess I was not extremely clear with it at the time.

In post 78, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 77, Davsto wrote:
In post 75, Syndesis wrote:
In post 73, Davsto wrote:I believe he put the statement infinitely more eloquently than I could. It's easier to quote and say "this is true" than it is to basically restate the entire thing.

Hi. Got anything to add?

Not really. It's page four. I often struggle to get much early on.

You don't have any opinion on fire or ninja?

VOTE: 3dice rolling.

If I didn't think only one of firebringer/garmr was scum, I would say this is seems a lot like chainsaw defense.

In post 230, ICEninja wrote:
@Fire, I'm not taking your word for it that Garmr is town just because you've played with town Garmr before. Unless you can show me a solid case that doesn't involve me reading full games of him (I don't do that unless absolutely necessary), possibly where he does something explicit as Garmr!town that Garmr!scum never does or vice versa, your meta read is meaningless to my read of Garmr. For all I know you two could be scum buddies.

^^^^I don't know how to say this any better. I don't really know most people's meta (most in this game are new to me), so if you reference meta I won't understand and won't be able to take you seriously.

Scorpious is a slight town read right now based off his strong comeback. I'm null for everyone else.

3dicerolling · Post Post #294 (isolation #30) » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:01 am

In post 279, Davsto wrote:VOTE: Archmage Ludicrous

For spending ages "being suspicious" of me but not actually voting me until a bandwagon has formed.

So you feel like Archmage is bandwagoning you? But you don't feel like you are bandwagoning at all?

In post 284, Davsto wrote:Someone obviously doesn't know my playstyle.

Is your playstyle posting a bunch of random stuff, that doesn't really develop into anything?

In post 285, Garmr wrote:@3dice post 254

can you format your posts better maybe not type in the posts you quote.

1.No I didn't misrep you because that's what i said. I said you said stupidity was a town and scum trait aka both so that doesn't disprove my point. Also he did answer you back then you asked for examples on how scum are more informed. Through he didn't give you examples how scum act more informed in general he did answer your original question.

2 By passive I meant taking a role in the background not really trying to convince town to follow you on your scum read. That's half the game convincing others to join your wagons. You seemed to have no interest in doing that it looks more like you were willing to be town read. I expect you to actually place a actual decent case on fire in attempt to get him lynch instead you passivly asked him a few question and went onto the next subject leaving your note with out trying to convince others to join you this scummy.

3.Because your really afraid of ending up on the wrong side of the argument that's why you did't go in. Scum want to be part of major debates to look town yet not set a stance so they can lynch both if they have to. Classic noob scum.

side note:don't remember ice being this bad of a player as town it's got to be his scum game.

Sorry about that. I can try harder on my formatting this time, but I was running low on time that day.

1. Fire responded to one of my statements, but he never answered my question. Go back and read it yourself. And no I was not particularly worried about Fire pushing Ice at the time, I was wondering why, if he felt so strongly about him, why he wasn't voting, and he elaborated on why.

2. That's the thing. I didn't have a decent case on Fire. Despite my gut scum read and pressure, there was not really much else, which is why I unvoted. I still feel uneasy about the two of you, but it's gut, so nobody really would've wanted to jump on in the first place and self proclaiming and pressure vote is dumb and defeats the purpose of it.

3. Um no, I feel like I have a pretty defined town/scum/null section now, or did you miss my recent post?

In post 286, Wanderer-nl wrote:I'm back. Thanks. It was beautiful. Still sad but was able to make peace. Hundreds of people came, we didn't fit in the room even.

On Davsto: his case and vote on ICE were bad. But I don't really see much issues with his vote on Archmage because Archmage did hold his vote for a while. Just that he voted ICE on page 1 stuff without analysis of later posts makes him look bad enough. In my experience Davsto is always hard to read and looking a little scummy. I agree he needs to start posting content, I do think that if he's scum he would maybe try harder to make reads to prevent getting lynched and I don't see him doing that.

Archmage: Not sure what to think here. To me he still doesn't feel too involved. He had a scumread on Davsto but not much other reads and he's not really contributed to other discussions in this thread except when he was specifically asked. In 204 Archmage tells us that he doesn't want to vote Davsto because he wants him to have a chance to respond, Davsto never responded to Archmage's case, and Archmage never looked to engage with Davsto other than his 204. Now a wagon on Davsto started and he's ready to vote. I also didn't like his attack at ICE in 226.
Archmage: what's your read on ICE currently?

Mario, Davsto is hard to read for me
as well but don't you at least have some sort of thoughts on what he's been doing so far this game? Right now you seem to be avoiding saying anything about him at all and that's not really helping. Also, you really think Garmr and Firerbinger are scumbuddies?

Everyone I didn't mention is either town or null. I plan to reread later to try and sort the nulls more.

I feel like your saying a lot, but I can't really tell what stance you are taking toward Mario and Archmage. In fact it kind of looks like you discredit your own reads in the statement I bolded.

In post 288, Alchemist21 wrote:@Fire, are you going to tell my why you're scumreading Mario?

Regarding Davsto, his wagon is starting to look like how wagons typically form on VI's. I think archmage is a much better wagon.

VOTE: Archmage Ludicrous

Why is Archmage a better wagon? He's still pinging newb town to me.

3dicerolling · Post Post #309 (isolation #31) » Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:24 am

In post 308, ICEninja wrote:The word you're looking for is hypocritical. Remind me to look at pistachi0n when I get home.

There's not much to look at, which is part of the reason I'm voting for him.

3dicerolling · Post Post #321 (isolation #32) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:26 am

Spoiler:

In post 298, Garmr wrote:
In post 294, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 279, Davsto wrote:VOTE: Archmage Ludicrous

For spending ages "being suspicious" of me but not actually voting me until a bandwagon has formed.

So you feel like Archmage is bandwagoning you? But you don't feel like you are bandwagoning at all?

In post 284, Davsto wrote:Someone obviously doesn't know my playstyle.

Is your playstyle posting a bunch of random stuff, that doesn't really develop into anything?

In post 285, Garmr wrote:@3dice post 254

can you format your posts better maybe not type in the posts you quote.

1.No I didn't misrep you because that's what i said. I said you said stupidity was a town and scum trait aka both so that doesn't disprove my point. Also he did answer you back then you asked for examples on how scum are more informed. Through he didn't give you examples how scum act more informed in general he did answer your original question.

2 By passive I meant taking a role in the background not really trying to convince town to follow you on your scum read. That's half the game convincing others to join your wagons. You seemed to have no interest in doing that it looks more like you were willing to be town read. I expect you to actually place a actual decent case on fire in attempt to get him lynch instead you passivly asked him a few question and went onto the next subject leaving your note with out trying to convince others to join you this scummy.

3.Because your really afraid of ending up on the wrong side of the argument that's why you did't go in. Scum want to be part of major debates to look town yet not set a stance so they can lynch both if they have to. Classic noob scum.

side note:don't remember ice being this bad of a player as town it's got to be his scum game.

Sorry about that. I can try harder on my formatting this time, but I was running low on time that day.

1. Fire responded to one of my statements, but he never answered my question. Go back and read it yourself. And no I was not particularly worried about Fire pushing Ice at the time, I was wondering why, if he felt so strongly about him, why he wasn't voting, and he elaborated on why.

2. That's the thing. I didn't have a decent case on Fire. Despite my gut scum read and pressure, there was not really much else, which is why I unvoted. I still feel uneasy about the two of you, but it's gut, so nobody really would've wanted to jump on in the first place and self proclaiming and pressure vote is dumb and defeats the purpose of it.

3. Um no, I feel like I have a pretty defined town/scum/null section now, or did you miss my recent post?

In post 286, Wanderer-nl wrote:I'm back. Thanks. It was beautiful. Still sad but was able to make peace. Hundreds of people came, we didn't fit in the room even.

On Davsto: his case and vote on ICE were bad. But I don't really see much issues with his vote on Archmage because Archmage did hold his vote for a while. Just that he voted ICE on page 1 stuff without analysis of later posts makes him look bad enough. In my experience Davsto is always hard to read and looking a little scummy. I agree he needs to start posting content, I do think that if he's scum he would maybe try harder to make reads to prevent getting lynched and I don't see him doing that.

Archmage: Not sure what to think here. To me he still doesn't feel too involved. He had a scumread on Davsto but not much other reads and he's not really contributed to other discussions in this thread except when he was specifically asked. In 204 Archmage tells us that he doesn't want to vote Davsto because he wants him to have a chance to respond, Davsto never responded to Archmage's case, and Archmage never looked to engage with Davsto other than his 204. Now a wagon on Davsto started and he's ready to vote. I also didn't like his attack at ICE in 226.
Archmage: what's your read on ICE currently?

Mario, Davsto is hard to read for me
as well but don't you at least have some sort of thoughts on what he's been doing so far this game? Right now you seem to be avoiding saying anything about him at all and that's not really helping. Also, you really think Garmr and Firerbinger are scumbuddies?

Everyone I didn't mention is either town or null. I plan to reread later to try and sort the nulls more.

I feel like your saying a lot, but I can't really tell what stance you are taking toward Mario and Archmage. In fact it kind of looks like you discredit your own reads in the statement I bolded.

In post 288, Alchemist21 wrote:@Fire, are you going to tell my why you're scumreading Mario?

Regarding Davsto, his wagon is starting to look like how wagons typically form on VI's. I think archmage is a much better wagon.

VOTE: Archmage Ludicrous

Why is Archmage a better wagon? He's still pinging newb town to me.

1. I don't know why fire wouldn't answer a question did you try to push him again for it in case he missed it instead? I feel like his town just through experiences like when we were masons together and when we clashed head first. I'm seeing fire doing similar things to you as when me and him clashed as tvt.

2.I felt like you were much more adamant about one of us being scum earlier. Anything change also what do you think scum would be doing now and how would they react.

3-which post and if its not in a short summary can you do that. Also pressure are only dumb when you tell people that's it only a pressure vote. Still if it was only gut reads switching between two gut reads would be less effort and back then you probably could of got some support on my wagon more than ds.

You have answered some of my stuff through So my scum read on you is a little weaker but this feeling in my chest makes me uneasy.

1. Yeah I was wondering that as well. I waited for a bit for the response, and then I forgot about it for a little bit. Can you link this game?

2. Well, initially I felt you were defensive in your reaction, but your tone has lightened up a bit in your recent posts. I'm still wary of you and Fire's little love circle, but the strength of it has slightly lessened due to your responses. I feel like scum in your case might have backed off sooner, but I guess it all depends on your playstyle. I feel like scum might be looking for easy bandwagons, or trying to fade out, which is basically what Pistacion is doing, so that's why I'm voting her.

3. This was from my post #254

ICE - Leaning Town
Archmage - Leaning Town
Fire - Slightly leaning Town
Scorpious - Slightly leaning Town
Garmr - Slightly leaning scum
Davsto - Leaning Scum
Pistacion - Strongly Leaning Scum

Everyone else is null for now.

3dicerolling · Post Post #322 (isolation #33) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:27 am

In post 312, Alchemist21 wrote:Pistachion just moved into my scumreads. Archmage's "readslist" was the worst part of his play, and him admitting that it was a forced post is what looks like apologetic scum to me. I find it hard to believe Town sees that and thinks it looks good.

QFT

3dicerolling · Post Post #323 (isolation #34) » Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:29 am

In post 319, Scorpious wrote:
In post 315, Firebringer wrote:I could compromise on Pistachion, they are a null read.

I would much rather lynch mage though.

If those were the two options. I would support a Mage lynch. I can't get over that forced read wall. Yes,he did admit it looked forced,but it was still posted..

I'm not sold on Pistachion

Just look at Pistacion's ISO, then you might change your mind a bit

3dicerolling · Post Post #375 (isolation #35) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:32 am

I'm still firm on my pistacion read. It irks me that she is pointing at all alone doing less, when in reality, she has not done much herself. It seems like she is trying to push suspicion on all alone while not actually trying to scum hunt.

3dicerolling · Post Post #380 (isolation #36) » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:03 am

Do you mean like the backlash you are get right now? From mm4?

3dicerolling · Post Post #458 (isolation #37) » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:54 am

I've been sick and had school stuff, so I'll try to catch up to this tonight.

3dicerolling · Post Post #497 (isolation #38) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:28 am

I haven't been able to read up, and probably won't be able to because of school work, but nothing has changed about my opinion of Davsto from my reads list. I say we lynch him

Vote: Davsto

3dicerolling · Post Post #502 (isolation #39) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:11 am

In post 499, Davsto wrote:This lynch on me is bad and you should feel bad. ICE is the only one who I can think of that has decent reasoning, the rest of you are just banding on the easiest wagon. Shame on you.

No. Your super inconsistent votes, pis poor reasoning and general lack of anything helpful is what has everyone on your wagon. Stop trying to AtE.

3dicerolling · Post Post #506 (isolation #40) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:26 am

In post 505, Davsto wrote:
In post 502, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 499, Davsto wrote:This lynch on me is bad and you should feel bad. ICE is the only one who I can think of that has decent reasoning, the rest of you are just banding on the easiest wagon. Shame on you.

No. Your super inconsistent votes, pis poor reasoning and general lack of anything helpful is what has everyone on your wagon. Stop trying to AtE.

Funny how he doesn't give reasons until pressured to do so.

I gave reasoning for your wagon a long time ago.

3dicerolling · Post Post #510 (isolation #41) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:30 am

In post 254, 3dicerolling wrote:I'm still not sure about the firebringer/garmr love fest. I feel like one of them is scum trying to hide under the town one, but I'm not sure which one entirely yet. After analyzing many responses and recent posts I'm leaning town on both Ice and Archmage. Looking back, I did find a few people who aroused suspicion in my mind.

Spoiler:
In post 6, pistachi0n wrote:VOTE: Garmr

Normal RVS.

In post 81, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 11, ICEninja wrote:1) Is anyone in a non-American time zone, or for other reasons posts in odd hours?
2) Is anyone here brand new or otherwise unfamiliar with how the game is played here at mafiascum.net?
3) What kind of level of activity should we expect from you?

1) No.
2) No.
3. Inactivity interspersed with frenetic bursts of activity.

Just answers the question.

In post 82, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 43, MarioManiac4 wrote:Ice is town and will not be the lynch today.

Are you townreading him for is questions? Why do you sound so certain? Why haven't you answered other people who asked you this?

He asks a question, which initially seems useful here, but there's not really any follow up.

In post 158, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 87, ICEninja wrote:Is your vote on Garmr legit or remnants of RVS?

Remnants of RVS.

Says it's a remnant of RVS, but does not really contend to change his vote or opinion.

In post 159, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 47, 3dicerolling wrote:I'm not sure I like the precedence of the unvote.

What do you mean by this?

In post 150, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 146, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:

Syndesis:
Seems to be tunnelling Diego a bit. I'd have to throw a light town-reading, nothing really suspicious that I saw.

Townslip or nah?

Or they literally didn't read the rules.

First part he asks me a question, which was already answered, so it seems pistacion isn't reading or just missed it. He also tries to immediately discredit a possible townread, which pings scummy to me.

In post 160, pistachi0n wrote:Scumread on Mario, he's playing lazily.

VOTE: MarioManiac

Hypocritical vote from a person with no work put into his posts. He asks a few questions, but doesn't really follow up with it in any way.

Spoiler:
In post 7, Davsto wrote:
In post 4, Garmr wrote:Lol i knew syndnious was innocent child before the game started because the mod sent me his role pm .

Nice, we've started with the mod errors early.
VOTE: MonkeyMan mutiny

Nothing particularly scummy, just RVS.

In post 12, Davsto wrote:1) See my sig. Clocks going back tonight though. GMT, woot.
2) I'm experienced enough to not be a buffoon some of the time.
3) Changeable. Like, really changeable.

Answers the question.

In post 57, Davsto wrote:
In post 56, MarioManiac4 wrote:QFT
oor
uru
t t
e h
d

wut

Randomness at its finest.

In post 73, Davsto wrote:I believe he put the statement infinitely more eloquently than I could. It's easier to quote and say "this is true" than it is to basically restate the entire thing.

This doesn't really make much sense.

In post 77, Davsto wrote:
In post 75, Syndesis wrote:
In post 73, Davsto wrote:I believe he put the statement infinitely more eloquently than I could. It's easier to quote and say "this is true" than it is to basically restate the entire thing.

Hi. Got anything to add?

Not really. It's page four. I often struggle to get much early on.

I get not having anything early, but he should have something legit at this point in the game.

In post 80, Davsto wrote:I'll have a look in the morning, see if a fresh mindset makes a difference. Don't hold your breath.

Let's see what the fresh mindset is.

In post 86, Davsto wrote:
@farside - that colour is really hard to read on the dark scheme. Is there a way you could change it? Thanks.

Asking for change in color.

In post 88, Davsto wrote:
In post 87, ICEninja wrote:
@Davsto: you've posted quite a few times, but have contributed next to nothing content wise. Gun to your head, you have to lynch someone RIGHT NOW. Who and why?

Firebringer because I don't have confident enough reads to lynch anyone, but I can't read Firebringer at all, so getting his alignment straight early on is useful.

That would literally only be if you forced me,
though. I would rather just wait until the end of the day where I have more solid reads with more to go off. I can be quite slow early game, sometimes.

Postpones his reads again. He says he would lynch firebringer, but is shows extreme resistance in the bold statement.

In post 111, Davsto wrote:
In post 108, Firebringer wrote:How exactly is playing stressful?

Like when you're speedlynched despite obviously being town and you point out obvious scum with plenty of reasons but you're still not listened to

Points out how mafia is stressful. Correct, but no particularly useful.

In post 115, Davsto wrote:Yeah, I know, I'm joking don't worry about it

Not really sure what to say about this except it's post 115 and there still isn't much content from Davsto.

In post 118, Davsto wrote:http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... to_Emotion

Informing Archmage, who didn't know the term.

In post 176, Davsto wrote:
In post 175, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:Uck. I cause more problems than good in real life, why should it be any different anywhere else?

You would think Dav would have more of an opinion if he was going to quote this.

In post 232, Davsto wrote:
In post 230, ICEninja wrote:We don't have that phrase in America, and over here being pissed means being extremely angry.

This is how I'm aware of it as a Brit
pissed = drunk
pissed off = angry
taking the piss = being unreasonable
taking the piss out of = mocking, making fun of

Not really sure why he responded to this, it seems just like mindless filler.

In post 238, Davsto wrote:Oh man, I'd love to hear an argument that I haven't heard a thousand times.

I'm often slow early game. You using that as an excuse to jump on my growing wagon does yourself no favours to the suspicions I already have, thanks.

Your wagon is barely growing, so why are you so panicked? And even if you start slow, you should still have at least 1 town and 1 scum read at 10 pages in.

In post 241, Davsto wrote:
In post 239, MarioManiac4 wrote:I cannot read Davsto and will be looking elsewhere.
Really?

In post 240, ICEninja wrote:Whoa. Whoa. He has suspicions! And a 4th excuse for no content.

So if you've had suspicions why have you not posted about them?
Because I don't have the effort right now. I have to have food in a bit; I'll come back after that and enlighten you.

Davsto has put off actually doing stuff many time and it's kind of annoying. All he has so far is pretty much filler.

UNVOTE: Firebringer

VOTE: Pistacion

I'm going to wait until I can get a better read on Fire as some of his recent posts kind of tip me off as town, but I'm sure there is a scum between him and Garmr. I'm also leaning scum on Pistacion and Davsto because of there general uselessness and lack of content.

Now Garmr's post

Spoiler:
In post 224, Garmr wrote:I don't really like 3dice rolling at the moment. Something about him makes me feel like his scum. The fact that his parking his vote on fire yet yet hasn't really pushed fire or expanded on his fire vote is really bad. The only interaction after the fire vote was sparked when fire chastised ice for being dumb. 3dice twisted it around to make it look like fire was pushing ice. Then just stats that stupidity is a scum trait as well as town trait after. Which is kinda weird since those two post put together feels like he wants fire to push ice.

I can accept some of this logic. I was holding my vote on him because I was pretty iffy due to his reactions toward me, but like I said, his recent posts throw me off; however, this is a blatant misrep of what I said. I said stupidity is a universal trait (both town and scum) and Fire disagreed. I asked him to point out a case where it's only for town, and he did not respond.

But other than the fire thing it feels like most of his posts are throw away statements. When he does question me through this statement comes off as trying to paint me with a scummy brush

Um no, that's you. Right now.

In post 127, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 26, Garmr wrote:
In post 21, ICEninja wrote:No, I read it correctly. I was hoping you'd unvote or attack me in another way in order to attempt to cement your vote but alas you're more likely town based on that response alone.

Unvote
.

Garmr seemed excited that he knew who would be confirmed town.
Maybe that excitement came from already having a solid N1 target?

Vote Garmr
.

Ice I was excited because I got actually play instead of not being able to which was looking like the case before. I don't like the bolded comment here it seems like your hunting for a power role this early. Town roles may target the innocent child as well and i think anyone would of thought of this. I feel like this is the wrong attitude to scum hunt for town so I draw the conclusion that your scum.

Looking back, this really makes no sense at all. If Ice was grasping at straws I the beginning, this is really grasping for something. I also feel like garmr is playing rather defensive.

But when I follow it up and ask why his not voting me when pushing . He then tries to discredit my read on ice but even after all are convosation he won't even mention a town or scum read. I even tried to provoke him into slipping a vote on me expecting him to take a stance either side. But he continued to remain passive.

Just no. I didn't vote you because I was voting fire, who I wanted to pressure at the time. At that point in the game, I was asking Ice and Arch some questions, trying to provoke a town or scum response. Obviously, by the beginning of this post, you see what my opinion is. Just because I didn't say a read, does not necessarily mean I was not formulating some. And by passive do you mean voting someone that isn't you?

In post 147, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 139, Garmr wrote:Dude your taking everything ice at face value with out looking at intentions that's not a good way to scum hunt also no vote on me yet your pushing me whers the pressure

No, I'm looking at the true intentions of his post and not hard tunneling him, and I'm quite fine with where my vote is now.

Actually looking at it now he got involved with both me and ice yet didn't form a stance on either of us while being active and interacting with both of us is a big nono. Yet his quick to point out others who haven't commented on us.

Yes, I was pointing out others because I want them to get involved because its difficult to form a read when they are not giving opinions. Yes, I did have a stance, but I guess I was not extremely clear with it at the time.

In post 78, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 77, Davsto wrote:
In post 75, Syndesis wrote:
In post 73, Davsto wrote:I believe he put the statement infinitely more eloquently than I could. It's easier to quote and say "this is true" than it is to basically restate the entire thing.

Hi. Got anything to add?

Not really. It's page four. I often struggle to get much early on.

You don't have any opinion on fire or ninja?

VOTE: 3dice rolling.

If I didn't think only one of firebringer/garmr was scum, I would say this is seems a lot like chainsaw defense.

In post 230, ICEninja wrote:
@Fire, I'm not taking your word for it that Garmr is town just because you've played with town Garmr before. Unless you can show me a solid case that doesn't involve me reading full games of him (I don't do that unless absolutely necessary), possibly where he does something explicit as Garmr!town that Garmr!scum never does or vice versa, your meta read is meaningless to my read of Garmr. For all I know you two could be scum buddies.

^^^^I don't know how to say this any better. I don't really know most people's meta (most in this game are new to me), so if you reference meta I won't understand and won't be able to take you seriously.

Scorpious is a slight town read right now based off his strong comeback. I'm null for everyone else.

In spoiler number 2 Davsto is my iso of you.

3dicerolling · Post Post #511 (isolation #42) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:31 am

In post 509, Firebringer wrote:Scum Davsto is dead.
We can all celebrate.

Davsto get the keg!

I really hope so. If not

@Davsto - If you flip town, who do you want us to pursue tomorrow?

3dicerolling · Post Post #550 (isolation #43) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:43 am

As long as it isn't as creepy as the halloween one.

3dicerolling · Post Post #553 (isolation #44) » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:53 am

In post 552, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 550, 3dicerolling wrote:As long as it isn't as creepy as the halloween one.

Did you ever see the Santa Boss from SAO?

Spoiler:
I'm kidding! The Christmas ava won't be SAO related at all!

No, I didn't see it, but I also stopped watching SAO after a certain point.

3dicerolling · Post Post #560 (isolation #45) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:13 pm

In post 435, pistachi0n wrote:I'm trying to get you to clarify. This is a common thing people do when they play mafia.

It was scummy of you to wait until after Davsto voted you to vote for him. You say you proved him wrong, you didn't prove anything. Your townblock stuff is also pretty scummy, it looks to me like you were trying to appear trustworthy and buddy with town players.

VOTE: Garmr

I haven't gone back and analyzed all of davsto's interactions, but this reaction did catch my eye. Garmr had just began to push davsto, and then Pistacion subtly jumps in with a vote on garmr. I smell chainsaw.

VOTE: Pistacion

3dicerolling · Post Post #561 (isolation #46) » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:17 pm

At a quick glance through I'm also pretty confident in garmr as town. I don't think Davsto would've attacked his buddy so hard.

3dicerolling · Post Post #594 (isolation #47) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:48 am

In post 565, pistachi0n wrote:I no longer think Garmr is scum after Davsto's flip.

I agree with Alchemist's assessment of All Alone.

VOTE: All Alone

Can you go into more depth of why you think All Alone is scum?

In post 581, ICEninja wrote:Excuse me, I believe credit for finding Davsto scum and pushing the lynch tips preeeeetty heavily in my favor.

Garmr's case on Mario is good. I might be convinced to vote Mario. Based on where the votes were thrown around, a Mario, Scorp, Davsto scum team makes a lot of sense.

This bugs me. It seems like Ice is grasping for a townread.

In post 582, MarioManiac4 wrote:So I hunted with my buddy after they were hammered, and me and Scorp crossbussed?
No.
It makes far more sense that scum bussed their goon, and is now having the town sheep them because, "My reads are good, I caught scum, lynch TownX."

So you are saying garmr is scum? If so, why are you not voting him?

In post 588, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 576, Garmr wrote:Also would like to add the fact like dave, mario was more concerned with me town blocking fire instead of finding other scum points to actually build a case on me.

WTF? I was scumreading you for forcing a townblock because SCUM. WANT. TO. BE. IN. A. TOWNBLOC.
THAT PART OF YOUR CASE ON DAVE IS 100% SHITTY. THE FACT YOU THINK YOU ARE PLAYING WELL BY FAKING A GUILTY ON TOWN AND LETTING THE LYNCH GO THROUGH SHOULD SHOW YOU THAT YOU NEED TO RE-EVALUATE YOUR TELLS.

This seems like town frustration to me.

Garmr's case isn't bad, but I don't see anything

too

incriminating on Mario. I'd much prefer a Pistacion lynch until someone expounds further on mario scum.

Also I have no idea on mario's meta, so that's out the window.

3dicerolling · Post Post #600 (isolation #48) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:08 am

In post 597, Alchemist21 wrote:This is Mario about the Dav wagon before the hammer:

Spoiler:
In post 459, MarioManiac4 wrote:I really don't get the Davsto wagon.
Like, at all.

In post 470, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 466, Scorpious wrote:
In post 462, ICEninja wrote:No, information is "There are people voting for Davsto. ICE made a case against him but I don't know how I feel about it".

Analysis is "I don't like this wagon", which is how I am interpreting Mario's post. Mario, please correct me if I am wrong, and that you are actually confused by the wagon as opposed to being against it.

I agree with this..

UNVOTE: mm4
VOTE: Archmage

And being wrong is scummy, exactly why?
I'm pretty sure you are looking for an excuse to join the TAL wagon.
VOTE: Scorpious

And yes, I'm saying I think Davsto is town as I can relate to his thought process, and do not understand the case on Davsto being Mafia-aligned.

This is him about the wagon after the hammer:

Spoiler:
In post 515, MarioManiac4 wrote:Wait.
you guys lynched davsto?
really?

In post 517, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 516, Firebringer wrote:
In post 515, MarioManiac4 wrote:Wait.
you guys lynched davsto?
really?

So now you are saying you had a strong town read on him?

No I'm saying there were better options for the day.
I just noticed the deadline was in 2 days which does admittedly make the lynch the best option at the end.
We should've wagoned Scorpious though.

In post 520, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 518, Garmr wrote:Last second speed wagons at the end of the day are always bad.

-Garmr, 2015, after leading the Davsto wagon

Again, I think he's showing more frustration after the hammer than before, and I think that's because he thought if he rallied hard against a Dav wagon before he'd get flak for it but if he did it after the hammer he'd get people to think he seriously wanted a different wagon.

Can you explain how this points more to mario scum?

In post 598, Wanderer-nl wrote:3dice: More players had cases on Mario, Garmr wasn't the only one. What are your thoughts on what ICE said about Mario? Or Archmage?
What worries me about Mario is that he kept up he wasn't able to read Davsto, and later changes it to a townread. Was that townread based solely on the fact that Davsto was pushed so hard?

In post 585, ICEninja wrote:Also possible, but I'm wondering if this is a scum slip. I've made some assumptions about there being only 1 scum team based on number of night kills, but I couldn't for a second guess if there was only 1 goon or multiple. I'm not going to let the wording of this cause me to lose too much sleep, but if you flip scum PR it means there is very likely another.

Dav flipped goon, right? I don't really think this is a scumslip. It could be though.. Bah now I'm getting paranoid.

I didn't like Pista's 487 but never got a chance to reply to it. The whole idea to a townbloc is that you have such a strong townread on each other that you won't vote each other. We lynch based on reads as well, so why are scumreads ok and townreads not?

Regarding Ice, I think he should elaborate more on why mario is scum. I don't think just saying garmr's case is good justifies it. As for Archmage, pointing out an irregularity in activity patterns is reasonable. I think the math comment was completely dumb though. Math has no correlation with mafia, so that was pretty out there. Both of them suggest mario/scorp scum team, but I'm not convinced on that. I lean more on scorpious scum than mario.

He might have felt that davsto was town based on his reactions or something. Regardless, I'm not sure scum would defend his buddy in that situation. I think scum would've done stealthier things, like push the person pushing there scumbuddy.

3dicerolling · Post Post #601 (isolation #49) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:10 am

In post 596, MarioManiac4 wrote:VOTE: Scorpious

Explain? post 582 pointed to you thinking garmr was scum. Now you vote scorpious.

3dicerolling · Post Post #603 (isolation #50) » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:31 am

In post 602, Alchemist21 wrote:@3dice; I think it points to Mario scum because Mario thought he'd get scumread for aggressively defending his buddy from the lynch, but if he did it after it was too late for it to change anything he'd look more genuine. Basically, I think he was putting on a few airs after Dav was hammered.

This makes more sense. Can you elaborate more on your pistacion town read? The way I see it is, Pistacion was playing pretty conservatively, not posting much content at all. When garmr starts hard pushing davsto, she slips in with a vote on garmr. The timing of it all seems too coincidental to be a town pistacion.

3dicerolling · Post Post #629 (isolation #51) » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:09 am

In post 605, ICEninja wrote:
3dice wrote:
This bugs me. It seems like Ice is grasping for a townread.

You're kidding, right? People have thrown so many town reads at me I'm astounded I lived the night. Honestly I wish people would throw FEWER townreads at me as this is the only game I'm currently playing and being night killed would suck right now.

Also, I was the one who had a legitimate case against Dav, and the first vote, whereas Garmr was just arguing with him. Why is he getting the credit?

3dice wrote:
Regarding Ice, I think he should elaborate more on why mario is scum. I don't think just saying garmr's case is good justifies it.

Why not? His case was thorough, and I really don't think there's much I could possibly add to it that I haven't already. What's the point of someone making a case at all if everyone else is required to make their own in order to find someone suspicious?

That being said with Mario's odd vote on to Scorp, I feel like a townflip of Scorp increases the chance of Marioscum (as Scorpious is by far the easiest wagon to push at the moment, if he's town) and a scum flip of Scorpious decreases the likelihood of Marioscum, as the right tactic for MarioScorp exScumvaganza would be to attack an easier town target such as pistachi0n.

@Alchemist I think you're right. Scum flip of Dav makes me pretty strongly lean town on pistachi0n.

1. Honestly, I was townreading you in the beginning based on gut, but it's not really that strong of a read. Also, if you were town being town read by most people, I don't see why you would want more credit.

I had a case on davsto as well, but the fact that garmr pushed him so hard when there were other contesting wagons is town.

2. Explain why his case was thorough. I'm sick of all this "Well player w's case is good so player x,y, and z are just going to sheep". That makes it too easy for scum to bus.

I agree that mario/scorp scum team does not make much sense.

3dicerolling · Post Post #650 (isolation #52) » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:25 am

In post 632, ICEninja wrote:
Garmr wrote:

3dice wrote:
Explain why his case was thorough.

It just...is pretty good. He presents substantial reason to tie Davsto and Mario together, and it strongly leads me to believe that one of Scorpious and Mario is scum. Having nailed one on day 1, being pretty confident between two players is pretty excellent.

Please elaborate on what reason ties davsto and mario together.

3dicerolling · Post Post #652 (isolation #53) » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:24 am

In post 651, ICEninja wrote:Why? Garmr ALREADY DID.

I don't currently care what garmr said. I want to know what specifically you like about what garmr said. I don't know why you are overreacting.

3dicerolling · Post Post #654 (isolation #54) » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:23 pm

In post 653, ICEninja wrote:I'm not overreacting, you're refusing my answer and asking stupid questions. It is irritating me. You didn't like the fact that I agreed with Garmr, but that doesn't change the fact that he made a good case and it made Mario my second biggest scum read after Scorpious.

You want to know what I like? I like the things he posted in 570. If you'd like me to make a case against Mario it would look very remarkably similar to that post, so I'm not going to bother.

I'm not refusing your answer, you aren't asking my question. All I'm asking is why you think mario is scum, and you are blatantly ignoring that and just saying "garmr's case is good". I never said I didn't like that you agreed with garmr. I never said I didn't like garmr's case. I never said garmr's case was bad. I asked what in his case has you swinging so heavily to mario, and all you have given me is vague answers.

I don't want you to make a case, I want you to tell me what you like about garmr's case. Like specific points he made or links he connected.

3dicerolling · Post Post #656 (isolation #55) » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:15 pm

Hey syndesis, what are your thoughts on alchemist?

3dicerolling · Post Post #672 (isolation #56) » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:15 pm

In post 668, ICEninja wrote:
3dice wrote:
I don't want you to make a case, I want you to tell me what you like about garmr's case. Like specific points he made or links he connected.

I already linked you the points he made that I like. None of them were bad. Why is this confusing to you? This is the most useless back and forward ever.

All you proved to me is that you can link someone else's post and call it a case. I'm beginning to get scummy vibes from you because I don't think you actually have a reason to think mm4 is scum because you are scum.

In post 666, Scorpious wrote:
In post 658, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:@Scorpius, once again, I'd really like to know why you chose to hammer fifteen minutes after intent.

IDK, seemed like the right thing to do..

VOTE: mm4

Why?

In post 671, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 665, Alchemist21 wrote:@Pistachi0n; Would you be willing to vote Mario today and go for All Alone tomorrow?

Yes, Mario is scummy.

VOTE: Mario

^Can we lynch this. Please?

3dicerolling · Post Post #698 (isolation #57) » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:09 am

In post 677, ICEninja wrote:
3dice wrote:
All you proved to me is that you can link someone else's post and call it a case. I'm beginning to get scummy vibes from you because I don't think you actually have a reason to think mm4 is scum because you are scum.

Good. Fucking. God.

Garmr posted a very thorough and convincing case that points to Marioscum after Davsto flipped scum. After I read the case I was convinced that after Scorpious, Mario has the highest chance of being scum.

This REALLY shouldn't be that difficult to wrap your head around, because it's never been scummy to agree with someone's strong case before, from what I've seen anyway.

Anyways, it should be noted that
Mario is at L-1 right now
, and we should proceed with caution. I find him scummy, but I still prefer a Scorpious lynch and I'm not yet interested in declaring intent to hammer.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I never said agreeing with someone else's case is scummy. You've said garmr's case is convincing and thorough and blah blah blah many times, but you still haven't stated any actual reasoning.

It's hard to tell whether you are scum who is bad sheeping or if you are just bad.

3dicerolling · Post Post #699 (isolation #58) » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:11 am

@wanderer - I liked all alone's vote on pistacion. A pistacion scum flip would cement a town read on them. The compromise thing is kind of throwing me off considering how early it is, but I'd say slightly leans town.

3dicerolling · Post Post #701 (isolation #59) » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:46 am

^savage

3dicerolling · Post Post #713 (isolation #60) » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:45 am

@wanderer - I would not go for Mario. Scorpions if I have to, but I'd much rather go after pistacion ATM. She's pretty much ignored everything I've thrown at her.

We still have a week though.

3dicerolling · Post Post #715 (isolation #61) » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:01 am

Mario also saved a (beloved) princess, which is a town move

3dicerolling · Post Post #719 (isolation #62) » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:02 am

^WIFOM

3dicerolling · Post Post #733 (isolation #63) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:14 am

In post 720, ICEninja wrote:3dice are you asking me to retype the things that Garmr said? You seem to find me scummy because I'd prefer to post the link instead of actually typing out the things that he said.

I'm asking you to do a post like this:

Why mm4 is scummy

1. He did X toward player Y
2. As Garmr stated he had this correlation with Player Z.

Because to me, it just looks like you are blindly sheeping.

3dicerolling · Post Post #734 (isolation #64) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:15 am

You should vote pistacion with me syndesis.

3dicerolling · Post Post #736 (isolation #65) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:20 am

In post 735, MarioManiac4 wrote:Vote Scorpious for a town win!

Why are you so sure on scorpious?

3dicerolling · Post Post #739 (isolation #66) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:41 am

-_- Did you really just hammer?

3dicerolling · Post Post #741 (isolation #67) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:34 am

In post 740, Syndesis wrote:
In post 739, 3dicerolling wrote:-_- Did you really just hammer?

The answer would appear to be yes.

If Mario flips scum, what would this say about Wanderer?

Probably town, just because I don't think scum would hammer their final scum buddy with another wagon.

3dicerolling · Post Post #747 (isolation #68) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:42 am

I get your reads all except garmr, mario. Like I know he drove your lynch, but why else do you think he's scum?

3dicerolling · Post Post #749 (isolation #69) » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:52 am

In post 748, Garmr wrote:I think our lovely lady wanderer is town I can understand a null read but not a scum read.

I think he scumreading her because she hammered him early.

3dicerolling · Post Post #769 (isolation #70) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:54 pm

In post 767, All Alone wrote:VOTE: The Archmage Ludicrous

"I intend to vote Scorpius as soon as the day kicks into gear" + "I'm still ninety percent certain Scorp is scum" doesn't read like a town thought process, why would a townie wait for everyone else to move before voting someone they were certain is scum? It reads like he wants to get town consensus before deciding whether to vote, which isn't something I'd expect a townie to let get in the way of voting someone they thought was scum. Scum on the other hand often want to make sure the wagon they're pushing is popular so that they don't stand out too much.

Everyone sheep me on this

Do you think there is any town motivation behind waiting?

In post 768, ICEninja wrote:Mario...Sigh.

Yeah, Scorpious is probscum. Syndesis is town.

Still not super sure on what beyond that, but I'm looking at a pool of 6 for the rest to find the last one. Bleh.

Your only two reads are the mod confirmed innocent child and the second best wagon from yesterday?

3dicerolling · Post Post #771 (isolation #71) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:11 pm

In post 671, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 665, Alchemist21 wrote:@Pistachi0n; Would you be willing to vote Mario today and go for All Alone tomorrow?

Yes, Mario is scummy.

VOTE: Mario

This is still a good lynch.

VOTE: Pistacion

3dicerolling · Post Post #776 (isolation #72) » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:15 pm

In post 772, Syndesis wrote:Questions, yay! Directed towards
everyone
.

-What distribution of scum do you see across Mario and Scorpious's wagons?
-Do you think scum bussed/attacked/scumread one another yesterDay?
-Is there a strong reason for the Garmr kill? (I'm about to go back and look again, but I'd like to see what others think.)

1. Well my initial thoughts are that it is 1:1, but if Scorpious did turn out to be scum, then that would mess with my theory about 1:1 because I think pistacion is scum. Honestly, I believe it depends on what Scorpious flips.

2. Since MM4 flipped town, it rules out a bus there, so the only other major bus is Scorpious, so this question also heavily relies on what Scorpious flips.

3. I was strong town reading him because of davsto push, and I think most others were as well. I guess it was considered a strong kill because he was so universally town read.

In post 773, ICEninja wrote:
3dice wrote:
Your only two reads are the mod confirmed innocent child and the second best wagon from yesterday?

Excuse me, it was the best wagon yesterday. Scum convinced people it was the second best. And obviously I have reads, but aside from those two it's pretty much a sliding scale from slightly leaning town to slightly leaning scum.

I apologize if I sound rude, but I'm doing my best to sort out this game. The way I've seen it is you placed a vote on mario yesterday and were struggling to reiterate the reason why, and now you started of today with only two strong reads has appeared scummy. I do like your list though and it does seem logical. Maybe could you explain/reference a post where you explained your tenacity for lynching scorpious?

3dicerolling · Post Post #797 (isolation #73) » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:21 am

In post 793, Scorpious wrote:ICE is scum
All Alone is scum
Mage is scum

lynch away boys..

That would make the game have 4 scum, which I highly doubt that is possible. This is also just everyone who is voting you.

Just trying to clarify this, you are claiming a full commuter, with no even or odd night restrictions?

3dicerolling · Post Post #800 (isolation #74) » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:54 am

VOTE: Scorpious

An full blown commuter in a mini game? There's no way that's a thing.

3dicerolling · Post Post #802 (isolation #75) » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:00 am

He's L-1 so we should wait for everyone to weigh in there opinion before you hammer.

3dicerolling · Post Post #810 (isolation #76) » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:49 am

Interesting idea alchemist. This also forces scum to put up a list and could be helpful down the road.

I would probably have:

Syndesis
Alchemist
Archmage
Wanderer
Iceninja

3dicerolling · Post Post #818 (isolation #77) » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:04 pm

Mafia wiki says that most commuters are either shot, or even/odd night.

3dicerolling · Post Post #840 (isolation #78) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:05 pm

In post 829, pistachi0n wrote:I don't think Alchemist was going with the flow. He was questioning and encouraging conversation.

Why is this pro-town? Can you quote some of these posts that you find encouraging?

In post 831, Scorpious wrote:RE: Wanderer

Scum reads:
ICE- just reminds me of someone I play with offsite. Tends to veil being scum with long winded posts that really don't say much other than re-iterate the same points over and over.. Somebody mentioned once IIOA or something.. I feel that is going on with ICE

Mage- Seems to me like he's so desperately trying to paint me as scum,however is doing it in a way that he can slide it off when I flip town,because he knows that I am in fact. Not mafia

All Alone- just lazy voting.. Told people to sheep Mage then flips to me with like 10 words..

And yes, All this ramped up after my claim as a NK immune townie..

So for Ice, you think his redundancy is scummy?

Why would scum not want to be on your wagon?

So you think he is waffly? Can you link some other posts that give you this idea?

I'll read your case in a bit archmage.

3dicerolling · Post Post #842 (isolation #79) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:20 pm

That actually makes a lot of sense Arch.

The day 1 davsto thing definitely is fishy. The level of interaction she has seems like she is trying to post just enough to pass by unnoticed.

Wishy washy can be town, but I would say it's more of a scum trait.

Although I was not a fan of the early hammer, I find it confusing that both scum would quick hammer. That feels kind of obvious.

I would definitely like to see Wanderer's response because if Scorpious flips scum, then she seems like a valid target for the third scum. I would also put pistacion up there due to her lack of activity during the scorpious push. I feel like she was distancing herself from the situation to see how it would go before she throws her opinion out.

3dicerolling · Post Post #846 (isolation #80) » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:43 pm

Hey Archmage, how will you read change on wanderer if Scorpious somehow flips town? Do you think she is scummy enough with the davsto thing?

3dicerolling · Post Post #893 (isolation #81) » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:12 am

In post 886, Syndesis wrote:
pistachi0n wrote:I was trying to find if there was a chance Scorp could be town. I don't know what counteracts a commuter.

Is decreasing the amount of scumminess of Scorp's claim worth outing another PR?

QFT.

3dicerolling · Post Post #895 (isolation #82) » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:17 am

I have never thought this, but nobody really listens to me about pistacion scum.

3dicerolling · Post Post #897 (isolation #83) » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:50 am

In post 254, 3dicerolling wrote:I'm still not sure about the firebringer/garmr love fest. I feel like one of them is scum trying to hide under the town one, but I'm not sure which one entirely yet. After analyzing many responses and recent posts I'm leaning town on both Ice and Archmage. Looking back, I did find a few people who aroused suspicion in my mind.

Spoiler:
In post 6, pistachi0n wrote:VOTE: Garmr

Normal RVS.

In post 81, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 11, ICEninja wrote:1) Is anyone in a non-American time zone, or for other reasons posts in odd hours?
2) Is anyone here brand new or otherwise unfamiliar with how the game is played here at mafiascum.net?
3) What kind of level of activity should we expect from you?

1) No.
2) No.
3. Inactivity interspersed with frenetic bursts of activity.

Just answers the question.

In post 82, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 43, MarioManiac4 wrote:Ice is town and will not be the lynch today.

Are you townreading him for is questions? Why do you sound so certain? Why haven't you answered other people who asked you this?

He asks a question, which initially seems useful here, but there's not really any follow up.

In post 158, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 87, ICEninja wrote:Is your vote on Garmr legit or remnants of RVS?

Remnants of RVS.

Says it's a remnant of RVS, but does not really contend to change his vote or opinion.

In post 159, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 47, 3dicerolling wrote:I'm not sure I like the precedence of the unvote.

What do you mean by this?

In post 150, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 146, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:

Syndesis:
Seems to be tunnelling Diego a bit. I'd have to throw a light town-reading, nothing really suspicious that I saw.

Townslip or nah?

Or they literally didn't read the rules.

First part he asks me a question, which was already answered, so it seems pistacion isn't reading or just missed it. He also tries to immediately discredit a possible townread, which pings scummy to me.

In post 160, pistachi0n wrote:Scumread on Mario, he's playing lazily.

VOTE: MarioManiac

Hypocritical vote from a person with no work put into his posts. He asks a few questions, but doesn't really follow up with it in any way.

Spoiler:
In post 7, Davsto wrote:
In post 4, Garmr wrote:Lol i knew syndnious was innocent child before the game started because the mod sent me his role pm .

Nice, we've started with the mod errors early.
VOTE: MonkeyMan mutiny

Nothing particularly scummy, just RVS.

In post 12, Davsto wrote:1) See my sig. Clocks going back tonight though. GMT, woot.
2) I'm experienced enough to not be a buffoon some of the time.
3) Changeable. Like, really changeable.

Answers the question.

In post 57, Davsto wrote:
In post 56, MarioManiac4 wrote:QFT
oor
uru
t t
e h
d

wut

Randomness at its finest.

In post 73, Davsto wrote:I believe he put the statement infinitely more eloquently than I could. It's easier to quote and say "this is true" than it is to basically restate the entire thing.

This doesn't really make much sense.

In post 77, Davsto wrote:
In post 75, Syndesis wrote:
In post 73, Davsto wrote:I believe he put the statement infinitely more eloquently than I could. It's easier to quote and say "this is true" than it is to basically restate the entire thing.

Hi. Got anything to add?

Not really. It's page four. I often struggle to get much early on.

I get not having anything early, but he should have something legit at this point in the game.

In post 80, Davsto wrote:I'll have a look in the morning, see if a fresh mindset makes a difference. Don't hold your breath.

Let's see what the fresh mindset is.

In post 86, Davsto wrote:
@farside - that colour is really hard to read on the dark scheme. Is there a way you could change it? Thanks.

Asking for change in color.

In post 88, Davsto wrote:
In post 87, ICEninja wrote:
@Davsto: you've posted quite a few times, but have contributed next to nothing content wise. Gun to your head, you have to lynch someone RIGHT NOW. Who and why?

Firebringer because I don't have confident enough reads to lynch anyone, but I can't read Firebringer at all, so getting his alignment straight early on is useful.

That would literally only be if you forced me,
though. I would rather just wait until the end of the day where I have more solid reads with more to go off. I can be quite slow early game, sometimes.

Postpones his reads again. He says he would lynch firebringer, but is shows extreme resistance in the bold statement.

In post 111, Davsto wrote:
In post 108, Firebringer wrote:How exactly is playing stressful?

Like when you're speedlynched despite obviously being town and you point out obvious scum with plenty of reasons but you're still not listened to

Points out how mafia is stressful. Correct, but no particularly useful.

In post 115, Davsto wrote:Yeah, I know, I'm joking don't worry about it

Not really sure what to say about this except it's post 115 and there still isn't much content from Davsto.

In post 118, Davsto wrote:http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... to_Emotion

Informing Archmage, who didn't know the term.

In post 176, Davsto wrote:
In post 175, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:Uck. I cause more problems than good in real life, why should it be any different anywhere else?

You would think Dav would have more of an opinion if he was going to quote this.

In post 232, Davsto wrote:
In post 230, ICEninja wrote:We don't have that phrase in America, and over here being pissed means being extremely angry.

This is how I'm aware of it as a Brit
pissed = drunk
pissed off = angry
taking the piss = being unreasonable
taking the piss out of = mocking, making fun of

Not really sure why he responded to this, it seems just like mindless filler.

In post 238, Davsto wrote:Oh man, I'd love to hear an argument that I haven't heard a thousand times.

I'm often slow early game. You using that as an excuse to jump on my growing wagon does yourself no favours to the suspicions I already have, thanks.

Your wagon is barely growing, so why are you so panicked? And even if you start slow, you should still have at least 1 town and 1 scum read at 10 pages in.

In post 241, Davsto wrote:
In post 239, MarioManiac4 wrote:I cannot read Davsto and will be looking elsewhere.
Really?

In post 240, ICEninja wrote:Whoa. Whoa. He has suspicions! And a 4th excuse for no content.

So if you've had suspicions why have you not posted about them?
Because I don't have the effort right now. I have to have food in a bit; I'll come back after that and enlighten you.

Davsto has put off actually doing stuff many time and it's kind of annoying. All he has so far is pretty much filler.

UNVOTE: Firebringer

VOTE: Pistacion

I'm going to wait until I can get a better read on Fire as some of his recent posts kind of tip me off as town, but I'm sure there is a scum between him and Garmr. I'm also leaning scum on Pistacion and Davsto because of there general uselessness and lack of content.

Now Garmr's post

Spoiler:
In post 224, Garmr wrote:I don't really like 3dice rolling at the moment. Something about him makes me feel like his scum. The fact that his parking his vote on fire yet yet hasn't really pushed fire or expanded on his fire vote is really bad. The only interaction after the fire vote was sparked when fire chastised ice for being dumb. 3dice twisted it around to make it look like fire was pushing ice. Then just stats that stupidity is a scum trait as well as town trait after. Which is kinda weird since those two post put together feels like he wants fire to push ice.

I can accept some of this logic. I was holding my vote on him because I was pretty iffy due to his reactions toward me, but like I said, his recent posts throw me off; however, this is a blatant misrep of what I said. I said stupidity is a universal trait (both town and scum) and Fire disagreed. I asked him to point out a case where it's only for town, and he did not respond.

But other than the fire thing it feels like most of his posts are throw away statements. When he does question me through this statement comes off as trying to paint me with a scummy brush

Um no, that's you. Right now.

In post 127, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 26, Garmr wrote:
In post 21, ICEninja wrote:No, I read it correctly. I was hoping you'd unvote or attack me in another way in order to attempt to cement your vote but alas you're more likely town based on that response alone.

Unvote
.

Garmr seemed excited that he knew who would be confirmed town.
Maybe that excitement came from already having a solid N1 target?

Vote Garmr
.

Ice I was excited because I got actually play instead of not being able to which was looking like the case before. I don't like the bolded comment here it seems like your hunting for a power role this early. Town roles may target the innocent child as well and i think anyone would of thought of this. I feel like this is the wrong attitude to scum hunt for town so I draw the conclusion that your scum.

Looking back, this really makes no sense at all. If Ice was grasping at straws I the beginning, this is really grasping for something. I also feel like garmr is playing rather defensive.

But when I follow it up and ask why his not voting me when pushing . He then tries to discredit my read on ice but even after all are convosation he won't even mention a town or scum read. I even tried to provoke him into slipping a vote on me expecting him to take a stance either side. But he continued to remain passive.

Just no. I didn't vote you because I was voting fire, who I wanted to pressure at the time. At that point in the game, I was asking Ice and Arch some questions, trying to provoke a town or scum response. Obviously, by the beginning of this post, you see what my opinion is. Just because I didn't say a read, does not necessarily mean I was not formulating some. And by passive do you mean voting someone that isn't you?

In post 147, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 139, Garmr wrote:Dude your taking everything ice at face value with out looking at intentions that's not a good way to scum hunt also no vote on me yet your pushing me whers the pressure

No, I'm looking at the true intentions of his post and not hard tunneling him, and I'm quite fine with where my vote is now.

Actually looking at it now he got involved with both me and ice yet didn't form a stance on either of us while being active and interacting with both of us is a big nono. Yet his quick to point out others who haven't commented on us.

Yes, I was pointing out others because I want them to get involved because its difficult to form a read when they are not giving opinions. Yes, I did have a stance, but I guess I was not extremely clear with it at the time.

In post 78, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 77, Davsto wrote:
In post 75, Syndesis wrote:
In post 73, Davsto wrote:I believe he put the statement infinitely more eloquently than I could. It's easier to quote and say "this is true" than it is to basically restate the entire thing.

Hi. Got anything to add?

Not really. It's page four. I often struggle to get much early on.

You don't have any opinion on fire or ninja?

VOTE: 3dice rolling.

If I didn't think only one of firebringer/garmr was scum, I would say this is seems a lot like chainsaw defense.

In post 230, ICEninja wrote:
@Fire, I'm not taking your word for it that Garmr is town just because you've played with town Garmr before. Unless you can show me a solid case that doesn't involve me reading full games of him (I don't do that unless absolutely necessary), possibly where he does something explicit as Garmr!town that Garmr!scum never does or vice versa, your meta read is meaningless to my read of Garmr. For all I know you two could be scum buddies.

^^^^I don't know how to say this any better. I don't really know most people's meta (most in this game are new to me), so if you reference meta I won't understand and won't be able to take you seriously.

Scorpious is a slight town read right now based off his strong comeback. I'm null for everyone else.

This was my original case Syndesis. I was basically attacking Pistacion lack of actual scumhunting. It seems she's just posting enough to get by. We've passes 2 game days since this post, but I'm still confident in my read. The OMGUS vote on All Alone, the fact that she just lazily throws herself on the most popular wagon,

except

the davsto wagon. She does not provide reasoning for votes and if she does it's very little. She always seems to jump on the most popular wagon after everyone else has spoken out first.

TL;DR Overly cautious play, getting on every popular wagon except davsto wagon, not responding to anything I throw at her, very little reasoning in the things she does.

3dicerolling · Post Post #899 (isolation #84) » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:17 am

In post 565, pistachi0n wrote:I no longer think Garmr is scum after Davsto's flip.

I agree with Alchemist's assessment of All Alone.

VOTE: All Alone

This is why.

3dicerolling · Post Post #907 (isolation #85) » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:06 pm

@Scorpious - Can you post a final reads list?

On the off chance he flips town, a reads list could be useful.

I'm fine with hammer.

3dicerolling · Post Post #917 (isolation #86) » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:08 am

I swear if you were lying about being full commuter....

3dicerolling · Post Post #919 (isolation #87) » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:10 pm

No, but do you like my new avi?

3dicerolling · Post Post #921 (isolation #88) » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:29 pm

I'm steadily increasing.

3dicerolling · Post Post #935 (isolation #89) » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:38 am

The next time I find time (phone posting now) I'm going to go back and look at Ice's ISO and see if I can find who he cleared.

3dicerolling · Post Post #938 (isolation #90) » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:39 am

In post 937, Alchemist21 wrote:Scum probably have strong PRs. I'm seriously questioning the balance of this game based on the Town PRs.

What PRs do you believe they have?

3dicerolling · Post Post #940 (isolation #91) » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:58 am

In post 939, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 938, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 937, Alchemist21 wrote:Scum probably have strong PRs. I'm seriously questioning the balance of this game based on the Town PRs.

What PRs do you believe they have?

I'm not sure. They likely have a day-kill ability to counter the commuter ability. There's probably some counter to the Cop as well because I don't think a full commuter would really nerf a cop enough to keep the game balanced.

I feel like the counter to the cop depends on the town's remaining abilities (if any). If there is a doctor, it's probably like a strongman. If no doctor, then it's probably like a godfather or a roleblocker. If it's godfather, then we need to tread carefully and pay attention to how the cleared players finish the game.

3dicerolling · Post Post #941 (isolation #92) » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:01 am

In post 900, ICEninja wrote:So I didn't want to say this but it seems like there isn't a huge chance I'll live the night so I'd better say it .

Pistachi0n dropped a subtle but fairly substantial town tell, but I really don't want to discuss it. I believe discussing the tell would be more beneficial to scum than town. If you trust me that I'm town (should be pretty easy to do when I'm dead) then just do your best to take my word for it.

Also, this leads me to strongly believe Ice investigated pistacion.

3dicerolling · Post Post #943 (isolation #93) » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:16 am

In post 942, Syndesis wrote:I'm terribly paranoid of a godfather, yeah. I doubt there's a protective.

The one game I've played as cop, the first person I copped was godfather, so it's frustrating trying to balance confirmed town with the chances of godfather.

@all - So after reading Ice's ISO and what Alchemist said, I agree All Alone and Pistacion are cleared via cop. That leaves

Wanderer-nl
The Archmage Ludicrous
Alchemist21

As the remaining lynch pool for me. I'm going to need to go back and look at davsto interactions and isos to determine who I think is scum.

3dicerolling · Post Post #946 (isolation #94) » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:35 am

What do you guys think about mass claim? We might be able to root out scum if we can crack the setup.

3dicerolling · Post Post #951 (isolation #95) » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:15 pm

Scorpious was commuter, so many he copped him and got no result because he commuted? That would probably raise the eyebrow of Ice and cause suspicion in his eyes.

There's no way he didn't cop pistacion. You don't just say "Before I die at night, here's something. Pistacion is town because of townslip I don't care to point out" if you aren't sure that person is town.

3dicerolling · Post Post #961 (isolation #96) » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:46 pm

This is a pretty stressful time right now because I am busy with Senior Project crap. I'll be here a little bit, but I need to be able to do another read-through and ISOs reads to determine who I think are the last 2 scum, and I just don't have the energy or time to do that currently. I should good in a few days, but for now I'm limited.

3dicerolling · Post Post #967 (isolation #97) » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:31 am

In post 964, Syndesis wrote:I think 3dice and Wanderer should claim.

I think anyone who isn't confirmed town by cop should claim, and alchemist already claimed, so that leaves Me, wanderer, and archmage. I think it might be safer to leave the scum speculating about all Alone and pistacion's roles.

@Alchemist - Did you crumb your role at all?

Should we claim in a particular order?

3dicerolling · Post Post #969 (isolation #98) » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:45 am

Okay, I'm VT. I think Wanderer should go next.

3dicerolling · Post Post #974 (isolation #99) » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:21 am

@syndesis - Can you confirm this claim? Also, if you were neighborizer, can you describe the interactions you had with wanderer in it?

@wanderer - What do you mean by "additional paranoia"?

3dicerolling · Post Post #984 (isolation #100) » Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:30 pm

I don't think the statistics matter as much as the motive behind neigborizing you, and the content of the neighborhood. I trust syndesis's opinion on the content, but as for the motive,

@wanderer - Can you re-explain your motive for neighborizing syndesis?

3dicerolling · Post Post #998 (isolation #101) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:17 pm

@syndesis - From your interactions with wanderer in the neighborhood, do you think she is scum?

I am currently working on my VCA and should be able to elaborate on who I think are the last two scum soon.

3dicerolling · Post Post #999 (isolation #102) » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:45 pm

Archmage needs to claim. I'm kind of suspicious that he has read up and not claimed.

3dicerolling · Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:58 am

I currently am not too busy during the weekend, so I should be able to take a deeper look into this then. Sorry for the wait guys.

3dicerolling · Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:55 pm

Green is town, yellow is cop confirmed town, red is mafia.

3dicerolling wrote:
In post 556, farside22 wrote:The Archmage Ludicrous (2) Wanderer-nl, alchemist,

pistachi0n
(1)
syndresis

Davesto
(7)
ICENinja, Garmr, firebringer,
archmange,
all alone
,
3dice
,
scorpious

Garmr
(2)
davesto
,
pist

Scorpious (1) Mario

Not Voting(1):

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is in November 6; 12:30pm EST

a lynch has been reached!.

My notes from this VCA:

- It's extremely difficult to believe that there are
0
scum that bussed davsto. That leaves archmage as the only possible bus candidate for that day.

- Wanderer and Alchemist are both on the same wagon on the end of the day. I'm not sure both scum would leave there votes like this. Interesting to note that they are both on archmage wagon, which means if archmage is scum, then one of them is bussing their buddy.

In post 761, farside22 wrote:

vote count:

pist
(1)
3dice

mario
(6) alchemist,
Garmr, syndesis, scorpious
,
pist
, wanderer

scorpious
(4)
Iceninja, Mario
,
all alone
, archmage

Not voting (1)

With 11 alive it will take 6 to lynch.
Deadline: Countdown clock: (expired on 2015-11-20 21:10:00)

A lynch has been reached, please hold onto your banana.

My notes from this VCA:

- From my experience, usually scum like to split up on different wagons if two townies are up for lynch. If that is the case here, this strongly points to archmage as scum.

In post 927, farside22 wrote:
Vote count:

Scorpious
(5)
Iceninja
,
all alone
,
3dice
,
pist
, alchemist

Iceninja (1) scorpious

Not voting:
Archmange,
syndesis
, wanderer

With 9 alive it will take 5 to lynch.
Deadline: Countdown clock: (expired on 2015-11-30 18:40:00)

Notes from this VCA:

- Interesting to note that archmage and wanderer are both not voting this day. Could be scum hesitating to be on the wagon of a town PR.

Next, I looked at the ISOs.

@Alchemist's - It's interesting to note that his first reads post includes davsto as a possibility of scum and archmage as a solid scumread. It was a very weak read on davsto that continues to be weak throughout the day 1 and that could be indicative. Alch also pursues a heavy scumread on archmage day 1, which offputs alch/archmage scum team, but then it seems like alch pretty much drops his arch reads, which points stronger to alch/archmage scum team. Day 2 he pushes for a mario lynch, which I was strongly dissatisfied with and day 3 he pushes for a scorpious lynch, which I believed was reasonable.

I maintained a slight townread on alchemist throughout the game, and I initially believed his claim, but I began to have doubts when I thought more about the setup. If there was really a town universal backup in this game, that would mean that the game was open to the possibility of an IC, a cop (which is already pushing it with amount of cleared players), and then the possibility of ANOTHER cop. This is what leads me to doubt alchemist's claim as town. Not having a revealed doc does offset me about the setup, but if the scum roles aren't very powerful, then we might not necessarily have a doc or one of the unclaimed players is a weaker doc.

One thought that popped up in my mind: alchemist could actually be universal backup. If the scum have one useful role, alchemist could be a scum universal backup who can get that role, but I feel like with the limited number of town PRs in the setup, this thought could be premature.

@Wanderer's - Day 1, I felt like Wanderer was kind of distanced from the game. She talked some, but I felt she was pretty aloof and not engaging. Interesting to note she vote parked archmage all day long. Her play was more engaging day 2 and 3, she engaged more with me and other players, so I began to townread her past then. It does bothers me that throughout the whole game it seems like she only votes for the most popular wagon, except the davsto wagon.

As for Wanderer's claim, I feel like 1-shot neighborizer isn't very powerful of a scum role, and it is only slightly more powerful as a town role. What really offsets me is her neighborizing target. I'm confused why she would target syndesis, the confirmed town. I mean, theoretically, she could not be influenced by her, and they could have good discussion of reads, which would be a positive, but ultimately, I feel like it would've been more useful as town to neighborize an unknown player in an attempt to get a better read on them.

@Archmage's - Day 1, I felt that archmage was really town in regards to gut, but examining how he treats the davsto wagon, I'm kind of disarrayed. He implies heavy suspicion on davsto, but waits until two votes were on him before voting. He later retracts his vote (possibly in hopes his buddy won't get lynched?) and then once davsto's wagon shows no sign of slowing down, archmage hops on. Other than this, I felt like Archmage was pretty town the rest of the game, except for one extra thing. He attracted a lot of attention as a potential day 1 wagon; however, his wagon got a lot of resistance. I'm not sure if that's scum resistance that kept him from being viewed or townieness, but I'm leaning more on townieness.

As for archmage's role, VT is a common claim for scum and town alike, but I feel like VT does fit more within the setup. It's not really alignment indicative though.

The VCA's point me to Archmage, but the ISO's point me the alchemist and wanderer, and the claims point me to alchemist and wanderer, so at this point in the game, I feel most confident alchemist is scum, followed by wanderer, then archmage.

However

, in one of my recent games that was just finished, I felt duped by the endgame because a player I wasn't expecting ended up flipping scum. I'm open to hearing thoughts from all of my scumreads because I want to find who is the other townie.

3dicerolling · Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:01 pm

Hey pistacion, what is your current stance on who could be alchemist's scum partner?

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:39 am

Are you kidding me? -_-

Wanderer just claimed scum with that hammer.

3dicerolling · Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:00 am

Phone posting here. I'll elaborate more when I get home, but there's no way Wanderer is not scum with that hammer.

I'm pretty sure scum saw my openness towards my scum reads and decides to quick hammer to stop discussion.

VOTE: wanderer-nl

3dicerolling · Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:27 am

In post 1050, pistachi0n wrote:I'm more suspicious of 3dicerolling right now. I don't like his case against Wanderer, there was plenty of discussion in anticipation of the lynch. Wnaderer made a lot more sense as scum if either of the previous two lynches had been scum.

How could you possibly see that hammer as town?

I had just gotten in that big response and soon I was going to respond to archmage and wanderer, until wanderer decided to hammer because of what I interpret as frustrated and desperate scum. There was still plenty of discussion left in that day.

Also, why do those other people being scum imply wanderer scum?

3dicerolling · Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:51 am

There's no way all alone/archmage or pistacion/archmage is a team. They would've hammered by now.

@Archmage - I would also like to see more thoughts from all alone. If there is a godfather, we could easily lose if it's all alone/pistacion. They would just have to push a mislynch

@Wanderer - The only way you could be proposing all alone as scum, is by proposing it's me and all alone, except I know I'm town, so that means you must be scum.

3dicerolling · Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:06 am

A few thoughts I've been having:

Yesterday, pistacion wanted to vote me over wanderer. If I would've been lynched yesterday, the game would've been over. It could be possible pistacion is godfather who was trying to flip the lynch around to win the game the previous day.

If Archmage is scum, he is playing it very safe. He could have easily hopped on my wagon today because it is obvious pistacion wants to lynch me.

Regarding the setup, neighborizer is not that powerful of a mafia role compared to cop, UB, IC, Commuter. There is definitely something powerful left and my money is on godfather, which doesn't necessarily make pistacion scum, but it's definitely something I'm considering.

I need to read back through both you two's ISOs to help me think this out.

3dicerolling · Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:29 am

In post 1070, pistachi0n wrote:Keep in mind, I didn't put a vote down on you yesterday. I exercised LYLO caution.

Why were you more suspecting of me than Wanderer? So much that you would rather lynch me?

3dicerolling · Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:16 pm

In post 1072, pistachi0n wrote:Because I had based earlier reads on Wanderer off of associatives that didn't go through while you flew under my radar.

what kind of associatives? Also, how have I been flying under your radar when I've been scum reading you most of the game?

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:39 am

In post 1056, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 1051, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 1050, pistachi0n wrote:I'm more suspicious of 3dicerolling right now. I don't like his case against Wanderer, there was plenty of discussion in anticipation of the lynch. Wnaderer made a lot more sense as scum if either of the previous two lynches had been scum.

How could you possibly see that hammer as town?

I had just gotten in that big response and soon I was going to respond to archmage and wanderer, until wanderer decided to hammer because of what I interpret as frustrated and desperate scum. There was still plenty of discussion left in that day.

Also, why do those other people being scum imply wanderer scum?

I never said I saw the hammer as town.

Also--when I thought Scorp was scum, Wanderer voted for Scorp really adamantly and withdrew the vote. So at the time I thought Wanderer knew Scorp would flip but wanted to be on the right side, and then backed out. Then Scorp flipped town. There were also some avoidant interactions between Wanderer and Alchemist going on that I thought were fishy, I mentioned them yesterday. But then Alch flipped town as well.

Part of my case on wanderer was the hammer, so you saying you didn't like my case insinuated that you didn't think the hammer was scummy.

How did this affect you considering wanderer's flip? Also, can you answer the second part of my question?

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:43 am

In post 1074, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:There's a distinct enough possibility of Godfather that pistach isn't conftown, I agree.

In post 1068, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 1066, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:pistach was the obvious kill for scum. pistach did not die. Something is afoot.

All Alone and I were both speculated about being confirmed town by cop result, why is that afoot?

Yeah, but All Alone was being "suspected" by Wanderer, and there was less certainty that ICE had ever investigated him. If pistach were killed, then it would be... 3dice that was scum, and nobody would know that All Alone was town. It'd be easier to convince me to lynch All Alone, there's good setup on Wanderer scumreading him, makes it look like scum might have been trying to cover their tracks, build some last-second animosity. Plus, he'd been quiet all game long.

Overall, 3dice, as scum, had a good setup for the final day if he killed pistach.

In fact, the same argument applies to me. I would have had a fairly good setup for the final day if I killed pistach rather than All Alone.

Pistach didn't die. To me, this implies that she is the scum.

Either that, or there are mindgames going on. Totally possible.

If Pistacion is scum, I don't think she would kill anyone except All Alone. If she would've killed me or you that wouldn't make much sense except throw up WIFOM I guess. If you are scum, then I guess I could also see the all alone kill because Pistacion was more dead set on me than all alone.

What do you think about pistacion preferring my lynch yesterday?

3dicerolling · Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:37 pm

Analysis of Pistacion's votes:

Spoiler:

I'm not sure whether this is scummy or townish. It's really weird because pistacion said that wanderer was cleared by syndesis. Not sure if this is playing dumb or not, so I'll notch it up as non-indicative.

Summary: I would say that pistacion looks less than pleasurable from her votes. Most of these votes just seem like blindly sheeping or bandwagoning, except for the archmage vote.

Analysis of Archmage's votes:

Spoiler:

In post 277, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:I don't like Davsto's way of returning. He creates activity in the form of a vote based on page-one things, but the very fact that he's returning at this time (when myself followed by ICE have criticized him, and ICE making a vote) shows that he's been keeping track of things. Reading, but not commenting.

I further think that refusal to acknowledge those attacks is a scum-tell in of itself. A town player wants to clear their name as quickly and as frequently as possible—I think that the town reaction would be to respond to and acknowledge criticism, and/or to double down on scum-hunting. A scum player might consider trying to lay low and let the criticism pass them by.

I feel really convinced that Davsto is scum. Convinced enough that I'm willing to vote: he's had his chance to allay my fears, and I'm not satisfied.

VOTE: Davsto

Interesting that archmage waits until 277 posts in to finally place his vote. Could be scum be conservative or like he said in the beginning, that he does not like to vote early. First vote is on davsto scum wagon just as it is beginning to gain traction. This actually looks pretty good for archmage.

In post 365, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:UNVOTE: Davsto

Considering changing my vote to Garmr.

This, however, does look as good. Could be archmage was afraid a scum buddy was being lynched early and tried to slow down the wagon?

In post 451, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:
In post 439, Syndesis wrote:Well. That happened.

I have the impression that Garmrwagon is bad but I'll examine it in detail in a bit.

Yeah, I'm pretty confident that the case on Garmr is bust. It's a meta read, which makes me feel dirty inside, but my searching his post history seemed to suggest that the only time he's talked about townblocs has been when he was town. @Garmr, correct me if I'm wrong?

In post 442, Syndesis wrote:
@
Archmage

423: Why?

In post 440, All Alone wrote:Considering the two suspects I've pushed so far (pistachi0n and Archmage) grew into major wagons shortly after I started pushing them, it'd be pretty absurd to accuse me of barely doing anything today. My postcount isn't all by itself a good reason for anyone to accuse me of that...

I'm not sure the logic of "I started big wagons, therefor I've done a lot" sits with me. It's not like you knew ahead of time those cases would become big wagons. I do agree that it's not reasonable to accuse you of being scum at this point, and definitely not on the basis of post count.

VOTE: Davsto

Returning my vote to where it was. Davsto hasn't become any more town-ish in my eyes.

If he didn't look more town-ish then why would you unvote him in the first place? This is what confuses me about archmage day 1. Almost seems like he hopped back on because he didn't want to be caught off the wagon.

In post 703, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:@Garmr Judas is superposition of scum and not scum. That's different.

My vote on Scorpius has had time to percolate, and I didn't think of anything that made it seem less reasonable. In fact, I think that Scorp's claim to "You said I was town before, but now I'm not?" (Paraphrased) as a defense has made my vote feel more reasonable. It's a defense that avoids my causes for suspicion and tries to make my initial read on him my final position. I don't like it.

VOTE: Scorpius

I honestly didn't like either mario or scorpious wagon at this point. I liked scorpious slightly more than mario, but I was still focused on pistacion at this point. I'd say this vote is fair. Not particularly scummy or townish.

In post 1026, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:Right. None of the things Alchemist has said made me less suspicious of him. His defenses overall addressed completely separate points to my attack, and he seems set on asserting that "I am the Universal Backup, and since there can't be a scum Universal Backup in this game, I must be town." It's a false dichotomy: true, if he were totally confirmed as a Universal Backup, he would probably be town. He isn't, though, there is no real reason to believe his claim, especially given that it's one we have no ability at all to confirm.

I also read through Alchemist's ISO. No time for a full analysis, but his interactions with Davsto are well in line with a scum player's interaction. He avoids direct communication with Davsto, starting with a light scumread of him that transitions to total support of Davsto as 'town.' Wagons me without much reason. I'd say that gives his Day One a light taste of scum, and there's nothing exceptionally actionable in the rest of ISO, though I could probably find something if I tunneled my head into the ground again...

Regardless, my intent to vote from earlier is now blossomed into a fully grown vote-flower.

VOTE: Alchemist

THIS IS L-1 ON ALCHEMIST.

Sidenote:
Interactions between Alch and Wanderer right now feel fishy. Not sure if I can fully describe why, and if I could, I'm not sure if it would be a good idea. I could be wrong, so I don't want to be a dick and interrupt, and if I'm right, then the evidence will be better if I give it time to marinate. Want to see the end results of their work, so I'd appreciate it if nobody rocked their boat when it came to letting them say their words about All Alone.

Archmage's last vote on alchemist. Interesting to see wanderer's hammer come soon after this. Not sure what to think of it, but meh.

Summary: Archmage's day 1 voting shenanigans were scummy, but past that the votes were fine.

In regards to voting, I'd say pistacion looks a bit worse. While I didn't like archmage's day 1 voting, I haven't liked pretty much any of pistacion's voting.

I'm going to make another run through when I can to look at ISOs based on play rather than voting.

3dicerolling · Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:40 pm

In post 1079, pistachi0n wrote:3dice--The hammer wasn't sufficient to generate a vote from me yet. And you'd been flying under my radar because there were others being actively scummy.

I did have other reasoning besides the hammer? What did you not like about it?

So you mean that you think I've been scummy all game, but others have been just a little scummier, so I've been under your radar?

3dicerolling · Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:59 pm

In post 1082, pistachi0n wrote:You didn't like the claim, and you said wanderer was basically confirmed scum with that hammer. What else was there?

Just some notes about her play and how she was distanced day 1 and only seemed to be voting the most popular wagon. Her neighborizer target being syndesis was pretty sketchy though. Now that she is flipped scum, I can see she probably neighborized her to get some town cred.

3dicerolling · Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:53 pm

@Farside - I'm semi V/LA until Saturday due to finals.

3dicerolling · Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:03 pm

How long do we have left in this day farside? No-lynching would be auto loss, so it's kind of important.

3dicerolling · Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:43 pm

In post 1089, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:Who are you addressing?

I think she is stating that both I and her are not asking you questions and so you are basically chilling out, but I have been asking you some questions, so I believe she was directing this to you.

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:17 am

Checking in to say I'm about to look through the ISOs again today.

In post 1098, pistachi0n wrote:
I'm convinced about your argument
that it wouldn't make sense for you to push on Davsto early on when there wasn't a lot of suspicion. I'm wondering if 3dice's frustration with Wanderer was frustration with being paired with a scum buddy he doesn't like. I'm going to vote 3dicerolling.

This bothers me. Archmage made one post, and you are already convinced?

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:11 am

Pistacion day 1 - She throws around some questions. Immediately discredits the possible townslip of archmage. Vote on mario with hypocritical reasoning. Interesting vote on archmage. What looks like chainsaw defense of davsto. Scum reads all-alone because she is being hypocritical about how pistacion is doing nothing, which is odd because they were both slacking day 1.

Day 1 pistacion has no interaction with davsto at all and very little interaction with wanderer.

Pistacion day 2 - Immediately sheeps alchemist on all alone, which lines up with her ideals of the previous day. Leaves a null read on scorpious. Sheeps alchemist again to vote for mario, who frankly wasn't even that scummy and was being voted for reasons similar to why pistacion was scummy.

Not very much activity, but there was some interaction with wanderer here, albeit, seeming a bit forced. Lot's of sheeping and not a lot of strong stances.

Pistacion day 3 - Opens up answering syndesis's question, stating that scum wouldn't have a particular distribution across the two wagons, which is odd because that's usually something scum focus on. Not much else happens except she immediately doubts scorpious's claim, which most players did.

Pistacion day 4 - Comes out of the gate doubting alchemist's role. Seems very odd considering alchemist has been pistacion's

strongest

townread throughout the entire game. She throws in some statements that basically leaves her at null about the claim. Looks like not wanting to take a stance.

Pistacion day 5 - Pushes my lynch this day, which if that would have happened would have ended the game. Just seems peculiar to me that she could think wanderer is scummy, yet want to pursue me more that day. Maybe scum wanting to win the game that day?

Pistacion day 6 - Very odd behavior. She doesn't seem very committed to finding out who the last scum is, but more of swaying between archmage and I.

Archmage day 1 - Very early reads list out. Intrigues me because I don't usually see scum throw out reads that quickly, even if they weren't very strong. Decent amount of interaction with wanderer and an early scumread on davsto. A little bit more interaction with players then an awkward unvote on davsto. He revotes davsto later.

There is a good bit of interaction with wanderer and archmage, which is more of a good sign I'd say.

Archmage day 2 - A lot of focus on scorpious lynch. He does not really say much about mario. At that point, I thought the scorpious lynch was better then the mario lynch. I thought the mario lynch was terrible.

Archmage day 3 - Most of the day is archmage back and forth with wanderer. He made a case for wanderer scum. Afterwards, he admits that All Alone would be dangerous as scum.

Archmage day 4 - The first part is him spending debating Ice's cop play and who he may have copped. He puts an either or on wanderer and alchemist, which I could relate to at that point in the game. The only odd thing I find about this day is that wanderer hammered soon after archmage placed his vote and response to my post, which could have been to cut off discussion; however, this could also be the case with a scum pistacion.

Archmage day 5 - He is very open about who the scum might be this day. Doesn't end up voting wanderer, but might have if she had not self hammered.

Archmage day 6 - This is where things really got interesting. I figured that if archmage was scum, he would immediately go after me this day. After all, pistacion was ready to vote me over wanderer the previous game day, so all archmage scum would have to do is go after me this day and he would have won, but instead he takes a very conservative approach to the day, which I see coming from a town archmage.

Overall - Pistacion has some good play day 1, but many of her votes are bandwagon or hypocritical for the rest of the game. She plays most of the game hanging in the shadows it seems, with only giving a few reads at a time. Archmage is a lot more open with reads. His day 1 play was okay, but his play the following days reflect town to me. I'm leaning pistacion right now, but I need to 100% sure before I vote.

@Pistacion -

1. Why have you been reserved when giving out reads this game?

2. Why do you think archmage would open this game very open about who his reads if he was scum?

3. Why did your read on alchemist change so quickly?

@Archmage -

1. Do you think passive (pistacion's play) vs active (my play) is alignment indicative? Or do you think it has more to do with the stance the player takes?

2. Why did you unvote davsto day 1?

3. Why did you not believe alchemist's claim?

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:12 am

In post 1100, pistachi0n wrote:Archmage made one post, I looked over the backlogs myself, and yep, I'm mostly convinced.

Could you elaborate more on this?

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:49 am

In post 1103, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 1101, 3dicerolling wrote:1. Why have you been reserved when giving out reads this game?

Because that's how I play. Especially day 1.

In post 1101, 3dicerolling wrote:2. Why do you think archmage would open this game very open about who his reads if he was scum

To look town.

In post 1101, 3dicerolling wrote:3. Why did your read on alchemist change so quickly?

Some grains of suspicion grew when he claimed universal backup and then it was POE.

1. Could you link me to a game or two?

2. So do you think it was more to look town or a result of him being town?

In post 1104, pistachi0n wrote:
In post 1102, 3dicerolling wrote:
In post 1100, pistachi0n wrote:Archmage made one post, I looked over the backlogs myself, and yep, I'm mostly convinced.

Could you elaborate more on this?

I forgot about how much Archmage was pushing on Davsto when there was no reason to do so. He was scumreading Davsto way before it was cool, if they were both scum it would have put unnecessary attention on his buddy.

Check out post 254 and get back to me.

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:13 am

Not hammering.

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:14 am

Until I can get to my computer, so I don't screw it up. I'm sorry archmage

VOTE: Pistacion

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:18 am

You were really town this game archmage. Sorry I couldn't be town with you

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:46 am

In post 1111, The Archmage Ludicrous wrote:Started to get suspicious when you asked pistach why it took so little to convince her. My town case was pretty good.

I gave in to laziness, though. If I thought it through just a little better... gah.

Which is interesting because that is something I would've called out as town. :/

Honestly, the blame isn't to fall entirely on you. The Mario lynch was abysmal in itself, and there was a lot of trouble with setup spec this game.

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:27 pm

I'll leave that honor to farside

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:30 pm

Wanderer was only one-shot

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:33 pm

The irritating truth of trying to find the doctor that wasn't there. :/

3dicerolling · Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:36 pm

I don't mind you releasing the scum pt, albeit, it's not much to look at.

3dicerolling · Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:43 pm

Ninja cop literally makes no sense considering there was no tracker....

3dicerolling · Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:46 pm

You did a good job of leaking your cops Ice. You were just a tad bit too sloppy near the end of day 3 with your pistacion read.

3dicerolling · Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:46 pm

You did a good job of leaking your cops Ice. You were just a tad bit too sloppy near the end of day 3 with your pistacion read.

3dicerolling · Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:14 pm

To be fair, godfather was in the setup, it just wasn't pistacion :p

3dicerolling · Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:17 pm

The godfather card is just too compelling sometimes I guess.