Mini 1777: Varied Music Mafia: Finale

[iraonavp]

VOTE: The Archmage Ludicrous (not very RVS)

Hi, I'm a miller.

[iraonavp]

ridiculous

a bit fishy

Which?

[iraonavp]

Hi, Kill!

[iraonavp]

Is there a Town benefit to claiming Miller early?

Yes, so cops don't waste time checking me. In general, if someone claims a guilty on someone later and they suddenly claim miller, you know they're probably lying because they didn't claim d1.

[iraonavp]

ridiculous

a bit fishy

Which?

Those two adjectives apply to two different things.

I think it's ridiculous to want to lynch someone for not having an avatar, and I think that the justification of "well they know the effect it can have because they've been around so long so it's clearly malicious" is a bit fishy.

You're right, I should've used "a bit fishy" and "to come even close to buying that argument" instead.

What you said still doesn't make sense anyway. How is anything heretical, but its justification just "fishy"?

You said your vote on me was 'not very RVS,' can you clarify why?

Because I think 42 is scummy posturing. The way that you make your point sounds insincere. The phrases that I quoted was a way to exemplify this. Other examples in that post could be the rhetorical question and the way that you take camn semi-seriously on something that's obviously a joke, to make her seem scummy.

[iraonavp]

Lynch Thur, he will flip scum and so will KTS.

You suck. I don't trust you at all.

[iraonavp]

I'm actually a bit suspicious of iraonavp for this bizarre justification of their vote. It *looks* like the kind of thing one would bring up while conf-biased and yet it's the reasoning he's giving for

initially

finding someone scummy.

That wasn't justification for my vote, don't get ahead of yourself.

[iraonavp]

There were 50 posts between that post and your previous, some of which contained real votes and one of which contained a miller claim. Do you not have opinions on any of it?

Not now, maybe later.

Alright, maybe a little -- The miller claim seemed strange, but nothing to do about it right now.

Scummy strange?

[iraonavp]

Who is the miller? Do we lynch them D2 if they are not vigged? (Protip: the correct answer is "yes")

No, fuck off.

To be honest though, I should've responded to my role PM telling RC to fuck off. Miller is such a shitty role since people will just claim it d1 and cause all this WIFOM. Godfathers are much better than millers if you want to make a cop's results unreliable, imo.

[iraonavp]

Thurhame is town. Snarky is scum. Camn is VI Town. Katsuki is VI Town or scum, leaning scum. Aristo is most likely town.

This game was too easy.

Then stop voting Thurhame.

[iraonavp]

Thurhame is town. Snarky is scum. Camn is VI Town. Katsuki is VI Town or scum, leaning scum. Aristo is most likely town.

This game was too easy.

Then stop voting Thurhame.

Nevermind, I missed you changing your vote when I skimmed your ISO.

[iraonavp]

Lynch Thur, he will flip scum and so will KTS.

You suck. I don't trust you at all.

I do trust you in the sense of not wanting to lynch you, but I don't trust your reads.

[iraonavp]

UNVOTE: camn

VOTE: duppin

duppin needs to talk more, so vote. This is the most I've seen of them:

I'm not sure I believe the miller claim. I think it's a pretty silly play as scum but on the other hand if you do intend to claim miller you have to do it early on so yeah.

Why shouldn't he be?

We're passed the RVS stage. What's your opinion on things such as the Kitty wagon, camn's stance on lurkers, Almost50's wagon-for-wagon's-sake, my opinion of Aristo, or iraonavp's complete abscense?

Weird response to obvious fluff. Honestly most of your posts sound like scum fishing for town credit.

VOTE: Thurthame

I'd like to do this for now.

I don't like the first couple sentences, especially. It says nothing while attempting to appear to have an opinion on something. "I don't believe it but it would be silly as scum but it makes sense if he's telling the truth" makes my head spin. Attempting to have an opinion on something while not actually committing one way or another is a scumtell in my book.

what a shitty post

erqafsd

I bow to your wisdom.

what a shitty post

Spoiler: My Quote

UNVOTE: camn

VOTE: duppin

duppin needs to talk more, so vote. This is the most I've seen of them:

I'm not sure I believe the miller claim. I think it's a pretty silly play as scum but on the other hand if you do intend to claim miller you have to do it early on so yeah.

Why shouldn't he be?

We're passed the RVS stage. What's your opinion on things such as the Kitty wagon, camn's stance on lurkers, Almost50's wagon-for-wagon's-sake, my opinion of Aristo, or iraonavp's complete abscense?

Weird response to obvious fluff. Honestly most of your posts sound like scum fishing for town credit.

VOTE: Thurthame

I'd like to do this for now.

I don't like the first couple sentences, especially. It says nothing while attempting to appear to have an opinion on something. "I don't believe it but it would be silly as scum but it makes sense if he's telling the truth" makes my head spin. Attempting to have an opinion on something while not actually committing one way or another is a scumtell in my book.

What is this even supposed to mean?

I don't know if I believe the miller claim, it's fairly simple. I think it is possible he is the miller, but it could definitely be a scum play as well. That is not the same thing as not commiting and that's a really silly statement from you. I simply shared my opinion on the miller claim, something which you (oh the irony) did not, so I'd actually like to what you think about it.

In any case I'm okay with my current vote.

@Thurhame, can you explain your read on camn?

I understand your position, it's just that I always find it suspicious when someone states a non-position (I'm not sure if I believe it = healthy suspicion, but not confidence one way or the other) and justifies it with easily extrapolated information that doesn't suggest too much one way or the other (It's what a miller would do if claiming early, but could also be a scum play) is more likely scum than those who don't.

There's nothing wrong with sharing your opinion. In fact, sharing opinions is great, and you should do it more! Which is why I voted for you, since I wanted more activity from you. Fire under the heels, and the like.

I don't think it's ironic that I haven't shared my opinion on the miller claim. My criticism of the way you phrased your opinion versus my having one or not isn't ironically related. You could make a case that it's hypocritical, but I'd maintain that it isn't.

My opinion on the miller claim, if you'd like to know, is complete apathy. A miller claim on its own means nothing. More interested in ira's complete lack of doing anything interesting, and totally unexplained vote on me.

what a shitty post

[iraonavp]

BEST SCUM PERFORMANCE

Oh, so I was wrong about you being town?

[iraonavp]

Almost50, do you have any other scumreads that didn't completely 100%/100 confirm themselves as confirmed town through a neighbor claim?

[iraonavp]

Thurhame might appear awkward because he doesn't understand or is pretending not to understand things about site meta like millers and neighbors. I think he is town though for some reason. He sounds genuinely indignant, I think.

And I could see your push for a quickhammer as a transparently scum-aligned action that everyone will just write off as town-aligned, because I don't think Thurhame has looked scum-aligned enough to warrant that really. Like, I don't look at those posts you responded to and start thinking to myself in all caps that Thurhame is scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

I don't think you have caught any scum-aligned players though.

I wonder how many times you've mislynched someone doing things like that, or used it while scum-aligned and have everyone read you as town-aligned for it.

[iraonavp]

I bet quite a few Iraon. It's easy to push a mislynch, and then use WIFOM city to defend yourself. Although I don't feel like it's the case with Katsuki since they're most likely misguided town, it could be a thing.

Why do you think they're most likely misguided town? If I were town in your position, I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference.

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Aristophanes

Do something or get lynched.

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Katsuki

[iraonavp]

You disagree with my vote?

[iraonavp]

Because he quickhammered Ircher and probably caused Killthestory to die indirectly somehow.

[iraonavp]

On a related note, I disagree with your vote, namely that it is not on Katsuki.

[iraonavp]

We did have an awful lot of time left...
But I don't think a quickhammer necessarily means scum.

Does it mean scum in this case?

Furthermore, does it even matter?

Caused KTS to die indirectly?
Either this is theory time or you're just saying whatever you can to win my vote.

I thought it was a vig shot but as I was typing this it occured to me that it was probably an SK. But still, if Katsuki never quickhammered Ircher then someone different may have been nightkilled, sorta like the Butterfly Effect.

[iraonavp]

On a related note, I disagree with your vote, namely that it is not on Katsuki.

How can you disagree with something that is nonexistent (my vote atm)?

It does exist! Just look on the vote count, it's right there next to "Not Voting".

Also, does this mean everyone should vote him in their first posts?

Mhm.

[iraonavp]

Who said anything about lynching Katsuki? I merely wish to watch as votes cascade onto his wagon.

I would encourage you to read up when you get the chance.

[iraonavp]

Maybe this is some kind of "Katsuki Challenge", where one attempts to do as many anti-town things as possible without being lynched.

We may never know if we don't vote him.

[iraonavp]

LOLOL

VOTE: THUR

Good to see you, Katsuki.

I would just like to point out, however, that you appear to be be voting for "THUR". Now, I'm not sure if this some sort of spelling error or perhaps you forgot, but today the only allowed vote is for "Katsuki"! So, it would be appreciated if you moved your vote onto "Katsuki".

[iraonavp]

While I do agree that quickhammering anti-town, it's usually (in my experience) town who does it as scum are often too scared to do it.
This is obviously WIFOM though. Nonetheless I'm not really interested in the Katsuki train. Looked over his ISO once more and while you could argue that his attitude has been rather poor, I didn't find anything particular suspicious and I don't think quickhammering is a scumtell.

I can perhaps see it being null, but never town-aligned.

I have skimmed some of Katsuki's games, and I don't think this is particularly out-of-character for him as either alignment.

I'm still not sure if this is the usual reaction train we have to someone quickhammering or it's actually a legitimate push.
In any case I don't like this post at all:

In the unlikely event Katsuki flips town I shall be very, very angry. Quickhammering on Day 1 is NEVER a town play.

It is possible Katsuki is scum, but I'm inclined to believe that's not the case and I think it is way more likely that scum are going to push the "look he quickhammered!1111" wagon really hard today.
(I also have to mention that I do not find iraonavp suspicious).

I'll return to my original vote on Thurhame. Still liked some of his later posts yesterday though.

VOTE: Thurhame

You just said that you weren't interested in the Katsuki train...

Two of the players Katsuki thought were scum-aligned flipped town-aligned, what's stopping a third?

[iraonavp]

Mental exercise:
If we had hit scum, would you be wanting a Katz Lynch now?

Definitely, it would look like a bus.

[iraonavp]

I still like VOTE: duppin

Though I could be persuaded to vote Kats.

I don't like that GuyFawkes has been so low in content, though.

So...

UNVOTE: duppin
VOTE: GuyFawkes

Several players haven't posted much, I can't possibly imagine why. I don't think that voting GuyFawkes achieves more than voting duppin.

You say you don't like that GuyFawkes hasn't posted much, does that mean you think he's scum because of this?

[iraonavp]

That's an impressive nonanswer to a question which has little relevance to the game past theory talk.

So... you think he's scum-aligned? That would be a first.

[iraonavp]

That's an impressive nonanswer to a question which has little relevance to the game past theory talk.

So... you think he's scum-aligned? That would be a first.

Merely commantary.
Do you think it's got anything to do with alignment?

No, I do not think so.

Speaking of Katsuki, where is he?

[iraonavp]

Hello again, Katsuki. I hope you enjoyed your recreational drug abuse, and I await your sober presence.

[iraonavp]

Ircher isn't scummy. He is, however, extremely unhelpful to town. I can't get a read through the obfuscating wishywashiness. I would have no objections to an Ircher wagon.

VOTE: Ircher

This is the shit you're calling town, camncamn.

Though I am tempted...

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

UNVOTE, VOTE: IRCHER

Granted I do think Ircher has a higher chance of flipping town but we'll see. I expect Thurham and Kill on a plate tomorrow, camn.

When you return, it would help for you to address why you hammered someone you weren't reading as scum-aligned. I also see potential lining up of mislynches.

I want to see more of what you're thinking, not just the resultant vote. Does Killthestory flipping town-aligned make you less sure that Thurhame is scum-aligned, since you originally thought they were scum-aligned together?

You must appreciate here how difficult it is for me to work out whether or not your motives are town-aligned or scum-aligned. If you're town-aligned, being as transparent as possible should help us to resolve this.

[iraonavp]

Why is that a scum-aligned post, duppin? Is it just because you disagree with him?

[iraonavp]

hungover as fuck and regrets were made last night WHOOPS

BUT HEY MY MOST RECENT GAME JUST FINISHED AND MY SCUMREADS WERE SPOT ON AND PUT SO MUCH PRESSURE ON THE SCUMZ THAT THEY HAD TO NK ME N1 AFTER I POWERLYNCHED A SCUM WHO SCUMCLAIMED 5 PAGES IN D1

MAYBE THIS KATSUKI PERSON ACTUALLY DOES KNOW HOW TO PLAY MAFIA

Well, clearly such luck isn't present in this game, or you're scum-aligned.

I don't care how you played in other games, you have given me no reason to trust you this game.

[iraonavp]

I think he's implying in a really awkward way that he thinks SnarkySnowman is scum-aligned. If so, that would be a first.

Are you reading anyone else as scum-aligned, Almost50? If so, you should probably vote them. What about Katsuki, I think that would be a good vote?

[iraonavp]

Then you need rope.

I don't mind.

Unfortunately, the only player in this game who should be capable of fully understanding my

argument

is currently voting me with you.

Ah, I thought you said "alignment" instead of "argument". So you're saying that since SnarkySnowman is also lurking, he should understand your point?

[iraonavp]

Show me someone who IS doing something in this game, including yourself. EVERYONE is waiting for someone else to make their move, and I can't get a single scum read thus far. Nobody stands out as scum and nobody is making an argument I could comment on. Lynch me for all I care.

Defense? I'm not going to defend myself. I AM lurking, for lack of any better options. If I do anything in this game status I'd look like I'm trying too hard. Damned if you do; damned it you don't. I'm just taking the easy route of being damned for NOT trying.

This eeally sucks.
I'd love for a bit of scumhunting from you! Giving up is antitown, especially when it is unnecessary!
I beg of you to do something!

Do you think Almost50 is likely to be scum-aligned? You've done absolutely nothing yourself, I remind you.

[iraonavp]

Show me someone who IS doing something in this game, including yourself. EVERYONE is waiting for someone else to make their move, and I can't get a single scum read thus far. Nobody stands out as scum and nobody is making an argument I could comment on. Lynch me for all I care.

Defense? I'm not going to defend myself. I AM lurking, for lack of any better options. If I do anything in this game status I'd look like I'm trying too hard. Damned if you do; damned it you don't. I'm just taking the easy route of being damned for NOT trying.

This eeally sucks.
I'd love for a bit of scumhunting from you! Giving up is antitown, especially when it is unnecessary!
I beg of you to do something!

Do you think Almost50 is likely to be scum-aligned? You've done absolutely nothing yourself, I remind you.

I realize this.

When people give up rather than scumhunt when on the block, intake it as a scumclaim.

I agree, but that's hardly what Almost50 is doing.

So at the moment, yes, I believe it possible. However I still have to reacquainted myself with things here and will have a fuller response soon. I must also read the post directly after the quoted one still, which may change things.

Okay.

[iraonavp]

It's not "meta" as in something you do inadvertently or subconsciously. It is an established way of playing. I DO get myself lynched if it's going to stop the lynch of a PR... intentionally. Of course, it is null NOW bc I did explain it to you all. Before that, only Snarky should've picked up the signal.

^^
Pretty much what I was saying.

However, I wanted to see how you reacted to a push on this point.
I think that original post is fairly towny in intent.

Which original post are you referring to here?

[iraonavp]

I think it's clear as day who I think is scum.

Is Thurhame the only person you think is scum-aligned? I think it's clear as day that this game has 3 scum-aligned players.

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[iraonavp]

The way that you join in on conversations just to make small remarks bothers me, e.g. 366, 411. I think that the tone of some of your posts is unnatural and forced, maybe. It looks to me as if you'd rather not do anything but make endearing posts about things that aren't really relevant to the game, to make yourself appear more relaxed (and, perhaps in some people's eyes, town-aligned).

[iraonavp]

The way that you join in on conversations just to make small remarks bothers me, e.g. 366, 411. I think that the tone of some of your posts is unnatural and forced, maybe. It looks to me as if you'd rather not do anything but make endearing posts about things that aren't really relevant to the game, to make yourself appear more relaxed (and, perhaps in some people's eyes, town-aligned).

I mean, you're not necessarily wrong, but I've just been off in Mafia lately.

What does this mean, are you pleading guilty to all counts of Being Scum-aligned?

I know, not a defence, but w/e.
I'm not scum. Neither are you. We should band together and snag real scumz!

Such as who?

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Aristophanes

I do believe that's a hammer.

[iraonavp]

What's with all the periods?

I assume it was a prodge.

Aristo, can you share your reads? You must have something.

I tried this before, and apparently he has absolutely nothing other than the unique ability to ask others for their reads, so he can agree with them.

[iraonavp]

I'm not sure, maybe we should leave the Serial Killer alive so he can kill you, The Archmage Ludicrous.

[iraonavp]

Let me get this straight. You believe Katsuki is scum, and you don't want to lynch him?

Yes.

Well, It's not that I don't want to lynch him.
It's that I don't want to yet.

Wait, why not? Isn't it in our best interests to lynch all scum-aligned players, including serial killers?

[iraonavp]

Lynching Katsuki the confirmed serial killer is clearly the best move here.

VOTE: Katsuki

[iraonavp]

I disagree with lynching katsuki, considering the mafia may use their kill on him and not another townie. If leashed, I don't mind letting him live for a while. Instead let's lynch aristo.

Why would the mafia kill a confirmed serial killer?

[iraonavp]

SHIT I FELL ASLEEP TOO EARLY

HAPPY APRIL FOOLS

Well shit...
I've been played! XD

Fortunate indeed that we didn't lynch Katsuki, thinking incorrectly that he was a confirmed serial killer!

Now that Katsuki has confirmed himself as town-aligned, I can return to my original vote.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[iraonavp]

Pretty sure there are maf voting for me tho

I'd be fine purging everyone on my wagon tbh

Perhaps I would say that The Archmage Ludicrous was likely to be scum-aligned, but not me nor Thurhame!

[iraonavp]

I'm just messing around, let's lynch Aristophanes though.

[iraonavp]

ok VOTE: unvote: Katsuki[/uv[

[iraonavp]

Let's try that again.

[/vote][/]]]]AstropanUNVOTE: /

Nope, doesn't seem to be working.

[iraonavp]

the SK is between Snarky & Camn. These are the two who have almost no connection with anyone else, so any flip does not reflect on either of them.

Individually, I'd say camn is town though, so that leave SS for the SK slot. The mafia duo are all about flips right now, and Thur's flip is key to vindicating/implicating a number of others. I want a Thur flip right now.

Wait, what?

That doesn't make sense on several different levels.

What is a "connection", and what are the connections that exist between all other players that allow you to rule them out?

And fundamentally it just makes absolutely zero fucking sense what you are trying to say, for a serial killer not to have connections with anyone else. Like, they will have no associatives with their partners if that's what you mean, but it's literally the same as town-aligned players. And if you rule out people just because they might look like they could be scum-aligned together and they're not then that's pointless, and in any case I doubt anyone's capacity to judge on a mass scale even if you use that logic. And we don't even have any flips it's just wtf.

This post makes no fucking sense I can't even.

[uvonte[/pharsitneoa///][
]voot]]]nearly69[/[

If only I could move my vote.

[iraonavp]

Okay, whatever.

Just try and explain what you are thinking and the assumptions you made. And then how you narrowed down the list.

[iraonavp]

We're not lynching Aristo. We're lynching Thur, and that is final. *Said in RC's special tone*

Do you actually think Aristophanes is town-aligned, because you've never expressed as such but you don't want to lynch him.

[iraonavp]

the SK is between Snarky & Camn. These are the two who have almost no connection with anyone else, so any flip does not reflect on either of them.

Individually, I'd say camn is town though, so that leave SS for the SK slot. The mafia duo are all about flips right now, and Thur's flip is key to vindicating/implicating a number of others. I want a Thur flip right now.

And I still legit don't undersrand the second paragraph.

If SnarkySnowman is the serial killer, why not lynch him?
Like, if you narrowed him down that well, surely he's better than an information lynch.

Who would it vindicate / implicate if Thurhame flipped town-aligned? What about if he flipped scum-aligned?

What does "the mafia duo are all about flips" even mean, is this just some smart-sounding obvious fact or something else?

Like this is quite possibly the most vexing thing I have encountered in general in months. I have no clue what inspired you to write this post.

Do you have a neighbourhood or scum-aligned topic where you wrote down all this, and I'm only seeing the tip of the iceberg?

[iraonavp]

Please nobody hammer or L-1 anyone until Almost50 explains stuff.

[iraonavp]

If SnarkySnowman is the serial killer, why not lynch him?
Like, if you narrowed him down that well, surely he's better than an information lynch.

Are you scum hunting or are you wagon dissolving/redirecting? You're posting loads to discredit someone's reads and question them w/o offering much. If you're willing to lynch SS, go ahead and place your vote on him. If you don't see my case on him (as you hinted by doubting me limiting it down to SS/camn in the first place) then stop trying to take votes off the Thur wagon and redirecting them "elsewhere".

You didn't make any case, you just said that SnarkySnowman was the serial killer. I don't think you should vote him because I don't have a read on him but you seemed to have a very strong read on him, that's why I asked the question.

You see, your miller claim is the only thing stopping me from leading a wagon on you at this point. It kind of gives you "some" space. However, it cannot hold forever, and -at some point- I might be tempted to overlook that as well.

Right now you're not a prime suspect on my list, so let's keep it that way and hope I'm right.

I mean, this is magnitudes higher on any Scum Manipulation scale than what I said earlier.

And it looks like you've just responded to everything else with some irrelevant Poe's Law sarcastic bullshit which quite honestly makes me think that if you are town-aligned, then yes, you are so bad at this game.

Could you just explain why you think SnarkySnowman is scum-aligned, thanks.

[iraonavp]

Well I've played with you before. Why is your playstyle so weird this game?

What makes you think it's playstyle? Serious question.

[iraonavp]

SnarkySnowman, just post more about why Aristophanes is scum-aligned and the town-aligned players on your wagon will unvote you. Then we can lynch Aristophanes.

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Zulfaristophanes

[iraonavp]

Well I've played with you before. Why is your playstyle so weird this game?

What makes you think it's playstyle? Serious question.

I'm not sure I understand. What do you mean?

Why is it playstyle as opposed to a difference in alignment?

[iraonavp]

Could you just explain why you think SnarkySnowman is scum-aligned, thanks.

[iraonavp]

there is no turning back

Why

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Aristophanes

[iraonavp]

There's 2 days left, but I see no reason to drag this out.

VOTE: Snarky

This is scum.

[iraonavp]

-_-

Lynch aristo please. Don't lynch people on policy day 1.

It's day 2, not day 1.

I vow to enact your dying wishes.

What were you?

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Zulfy

[iraonavp]

Actually, maybe I will entertain this notion for a bit. But only because Katsuki is confirmed as town-aligned.

VOTE: Thurhame

[iraonavp]

yesterday you said tomorrow

but actually I'm not all that comfortable with this don't quickhammer please

[iraonavp]

I mean, you can't really use PoE to narrow down a pool of 6 to 4. Unless you're a cop or something. In which case you may as well just claim since it's really obvious if so and because I said this.

Also, you can't have a result on me because I'm a miller. Also, if you aren't a cop, what happened to you wanting to lynch Thurhame, didn't you think that guy was suspicious?

[iraonavp]

It makes even less sense when you realize that he's essentially saying that all four of those players are more likely to be scum-aligned than Thurhame. Yesterday Thurhame was the top suspect and SnarkySnowman was the compromise.