Mini Normal 1890 - Endgame

[Lycanfire]

Hey

I'm still on my dinner break reading. Proper catch up when I get back.

UNVOTE:

[Lycanfire]

Hmm. Ok that was a disturbing read.

I found myself agreeing with people only to have them disclose different reasons several times and I felt pretty isolated.

I think Barley's original reason to push Magna to be weak, and I only agree with Magna that Matt's post 18 was awful, but I dislike that he went the meta-angle rather than scumread him over.... Well, what fucking else is Matt doing? Nothing. That's my problem with the post.

I was developing some healthy suspicion of Sheep peaking at 52 because they seemingly appeared pissed off that their preferred wagon was being derailed and they couldn't use their (sheep) gimmick to start one of their own. This was reinforced with post 65 where they subvert their own gimmick but only after morale behind Barley's lynch appears (despite no votes). Posts 48, 63 are ones I remarked had a lot of lucidity, probably because they weren't raging about not having a wagon to commit to. Considering them town right now for not doing anything stupid.

The rest of you are trying your hardest to be unsortable fucks and that is apparently all I'm good at doing in mafia. So I'm here to break your legs.

@Magna

2F's interactions have been pretty suspect. What would be your top pick for a scum partner of 2F?

@Grey

You said you had godly scumhunting. Why did you take a backseat in 61, create a lynchpool that was meaningless and tell us who you would lynch in it sans scumhunting?

@2F

In 32 you said Magna was scum or could be ignored, by post 40 you said they were either town or scum, and in either case could be ignored. By 35 I get the impression you thought they were more town than not, and you were fast to say you would simply ignore them over work with them. Why?

@Jack

You said you doubted Sheep's evolution in reads in 119, but you seemingly miss (along with Magna) that Sheep was the sole occupant of a Barley wagon, despite the morale behind it. What scum motive does Sheep have here to avert the lynch, while simultaneously attempting to keep it viable?

@Key

Why were you so focused on Sheep's main account (2 instances) but not Barley's?

@Elena

What's your read on Magna?

@Matt

Why did you chainsaw for Key but offer us nothing besides a flaccid Magna vote in return? Do you really think this was more pro-town than watching (in the worst case) the proverbial vultures pick at Key?

@BBT

I want to work with you today. What's your thought on the game state?

[Lycanfire]

i want to see more from the blank-er slots (gin, elena, boon, momo) bbt falls in there too but i don't really have a comment on boon's play atm beyond being amused that he apparently has a meta to recklessly hammer, feel free to tell me if that's bullshit if you're feeling left out

[Lycanfire]

your question was further down. keep the eyes down. no. that's too low. back up here. thanks.

[Lycanfire]

hello momo if i can read the thread while delirious and write notes on it you can do a quick skim. see you after my nap!

[Lycanfire]

I have a pretty clear tr on Magna here.

Boons LAMIST into look at me i'm so scum is really suss. The last time I believed someone's personal issues they were scum. Reaction testing with a vague pr claim, full claim and fast redaction leans town intentioned, and i don't agree that they were 'caught' doing anything. surely not being 'caught' and

actually

pushing a fakeclaim is truescum because the alternative (potential counterclaim) is disastrous for town. I simply dislike how he walked it off... Oh he's just testing things out, it's something RC does and so forth. Erase those posts and you have the behavior of someone who is using exceedingly confident language like bemoaning their own death, how they have intent to self vote, how it's been a trust tell they've followed through on to the point of being banned, other meta nuances (how they shut down wagons they dislike). If you insert his reaction to being called out on faking, it reads like a behavioral inconsistency. I'm not gutreading this as superscum, but it leans there.

UNVOTE: for now

why did you unvote here?

Hey Boon – care to comment on Momo and my thoughts on him?

Same invitiation is extended to Elena / BBT / ZZ / Lycan. I would very much like to hear your thoughts.

they had an unamusing entrance indicative of lazy scum or a townie that doesn't want to share reads yet. since they had replaced in hours previous i'm not sure it's the latter. they gave intent on boons. putting them to l-2 no-k, supposedly hammering ok. no real evolution in reads or attempt to further the game. probscum. regardless of alignment does not articulate themselves well.

[Lycanfire]

@Grey You said you had godly scumhunting.

That's a ridiculous misrep.

Not much of a misrep. Godly vs. goodness. Was that still an example of 'good scumhunting' or scumhunting at all?

If anybody has the answers on d1, it's because they're scum.

[Lycanfire]

Look guy, I wrote in my notes that you said you had godly scumhunting when you said

grey 21 is a reach.

Only in the sense that it reaches across the internet and slaps you across the forehead with its mushroom stamp of scumhunting goodness.

now stop dodging and start making sense

[Lycanfire]

There was seemingly no motive for you to make post 61, but you still made it to throw fuel on Sheep vs. Barley. Is that why you're choosing not to answer?

[Lycanfire]

feel free to bus this by the way: VOTE: Elena

[Lycanfire]

There was seemingly no motive for you to make post 61, but you still made it to throw fuel on Sheep vs. Barley. Is that why you're choosing not to answer?

Just what the fuck exactly are you expecting me to answer when you're not asking me a question?

[Lycanfire]

Key what's your read on 2F?

[Lycanfire]

Why did you take a backseat in 61, create a lynchpool that was meaningless and tell us who you would lynch in it sans scumhunting?

[Lycanfire]

So are you or are you not in the backseat of that Alfa Romeo?

[Lycanfire]

So my problem with Elena was that she made a lot of shit-stirring posts. Those aren't bad, but only if you're invested into it. It's for the same reason that I poked at Grey. If you sit back and encourage conflict, you're probably scum.

I can't be the only one confused on this interaction between barley and sheep right?

Translation: this is the only alternative discussion to the magna wagon that I want to see.

Spoiler: Post 64, Elena Fischer

Let me see if I get this right.

grey 21 is a reach.

magna 23 is poor reasoning. why is it invalid to be wary of a wagon on x player when x player tends to react poorly to wagons as town? and to 31, where does matt imply that any reaction to a key wagon from key will be nai?

tf seems like tf.

elena 17 feels off. points to magna for pointing that out.

matt 27 feels townish.

tf 37

key 38

VOTE: key

At this post you did not scumread key? What was the vote for then.

more words doesn't mean more coherent

i don't really understand key's 38 but i don't get good vibes from it either way. either it's antagonistic or it's self-conscious

The tone here feels like

UNVOTE:

no issue with key.

i said it was either antagonistic or self-conscious. one or the other. i don't personally like the antagonism but i don't think it's scummy.

sheep - on hold until magna responds to 43

a 180 flip from here I feel like you were taking me one way then zapped me another talk me through it

Consider these vs. a post as simple as this

wtf are guys srs

post only served to force conflict between two townies

So McMenno has not answered my question about his claim. Noted.

Farside, if you still wanna ally, I'm totally up for it. You could also go with Skybird, she's town.

I also dislike Almost50's unexplained townread on me (and Skybird, to an extent). If you don't/can't comment because neither of us have posted much, fine, but why is that worthy of a full townread? Townlean on Xk is also bad.

pedit: Someone explain the Almost50 townreads to me? Is it just because of the joyride?

Simultanously promoted Skybird as town (they were scum with a godly safeclaim) while doubtcasting them, had a bad interaction with Farside who was constantly getting shit for attempting to dominate the game, doubted A50, disliked a read on one of her scumpartners (xk). There was no scumhunting in this post, only shit stirring.

L-2

Hang on you just come in to say "L-2" and choose to make no comment what so ever on what's going on or even place a vote?
Yeah I don't like this

Shadepost. Back in

Spyro

I was one of the few to still scumread Leonshade after him mod-confirming having an ability based on Spyro being in the game, and it was because he wouldn't stop making shade posts. Wrote the same note for Elena here, except it isn't as fun as "My name is Leon and I live in the shade".

He has 2 comments on his iso perfect chance to make a comment on anything that's happened in the game. Nope L-2

So Boom where's your head at?

this isn't scumhunting or a proper response to boon's L-2 post. it was a pointless post, but i didn't believe he bothered to read into the game when he made it.

First of all this wagon got a lot more srs and I got what I wanted so.
UNVOTE:

trying too hard to justify their vote

I'd also love if we got more posts from blank slots before even thinking on a hammer but that's a given.

"oh gosh what would a townie say here well i guess i'll say one of the things lycan said earlier"

[Lycanfire]

Okay let's talk about this case on me shall we? Also anyone who votes me because of said case please say what you like about it just "I like this case" Doesn't really do much and makes the topic run dry.
Post 59: I said I was confused and I was. Barley's mindset changed like the flip of a switch in the matter of moments as you can see in post 64 so I was quite boggled

Do you have any strong reads on the people on your wagon?

Can you please show me how my post was used to creature conflict what has any of my posts done to creature conflict that's the part that confuses me. Yes you are bringing up meta from someone who is not me I'm not Foxbird what does Foxbird have anything to do with me or my comments I understand what Foxbird did but how does that relate to me

I'm not meta-ing anyone. I've done the

exact same thing

as scum. I so much as said in the mafia PT for Darkest Dungeon that if you want a mislynch that day, make a pointed post to encourage conflict between Varsoon/Frozen Angel/Keyser Soze/and our lovely mod Human Sequencer.

Spoiler: Darkest Dungeon scumpost

When reading the game I was wondering why people involved in the Wraith wagon legitimately didn't care that the claimed intent (joke) and conclusion (scum) could have matched opposed to "action must be scummy therefore scum". HS was a component of the wagon (p88-101), and made that shitpost about crusader claims (86). They pretty much announced they wanted crusader to claim in their first post (63). I don't really know how I care about the curio flipflop (167)-there's no good scum motive here because both scenarios I can think of look like shit. Eventually the wagon got stale around the time HS claimed to kill the wagon, then they attracted a portion of the Wraith wagon. The problem with this is that the Wraith wagon was

actually a fine place to be

if you gave a damn.

Right now I'm most interested in AA.

Really dislike the handling of the Wraith wagon-AA goes back and forth with Varsoon over half a dozen posts about whether it's okay to wagon and the resolution of the curio, then when Varsoon makes a tongue-in-cheek response that they find it "curious" they're even there (155) AA affirms their actions but relents (156). I can't actually justify 156 as an attempt to further the wagon by resolving the curio and I don't see why the "pressure" had to stop to talk about the resolution during all these posts (133-156) either. If you want a reaction, you go for broke. If you want to further your wagon and don't care about the curio (133) why not tell Varsoon that you'll resolve the curio matter to resolve the reaction problem? Instead, AA comes into the exchange with Varsoon, gains a problem they don't want, and exits with what they started, while making no effort to push forward. Both problems had a solution. Get Varsoon on board with Wraith and see how far he wants to go with the curio at the same time.

When AA accepts Wraith may have been joking (219) it's worth noting that Aragorn seems to have tagged out Arwen at this stage. For some reason I really hated the "you talk to Arwen directly something something cry to HS" bit. It felt like a set up to switch gears for someone on page four (221). Aragorn hints they want to loosen the grip on Wraith, and after Wraith quotes a bunch of jokes to Arwen Aragorn thinks they're frustrated town (229), shades HS but has their vote on Wraith in this same post. Aragorn seems to consider town!Wraith at 250. The earlier trend continues with Vifam (256), but then votes HS in 277. Nothing seems to happen wrt to HS or why HS' read suddenly became important from Aragorn's last post (263) to his post 277 with the exception of Arwen making themselves known in post 270.

I really hate how AA has attached themselves to the HS wagon. It seems like it was premeditated (219+221) but wasn't until Arwen appeared that the green light was actually given. 232 was an incredible use of rhetoric to revise Arwen vs. Varsoon into Varsoon "helping" Arwen when it was really just Varsoon's obsession with the curio jamming Arwen's programming and stopping her from doing anything worthwhile related to Wraith. Seemingly nothing was said in the hydra PT harboring suspicion of this (247). If the hydra didn't care enough to note Varsoon over it, then why was the Wraith vote important at all? If their vote was better placed (which it was established after 250,256) it shouldn't have taken so long to change.

I have a few other associative reads that I don't feel like sharing. This vote is good. VOTE: AA

It

worked

and caused Varsoon to go bananas on Arwen and Aragorn (FA/Keyser Soze) in a TvT while both had varying levels of a townread on me as a result.

It's a hard tell-something I've caught scum by page 2 with. It's hard for townies to justify that sort of behavior, unless of course they're inserting themselves into the conflict. Then they may have a leg to stand on.

My post on Boon? Yes 100% a shade post we had a wagon on someone and Boon makes 0 comment just comes in to say "L-2" that doesn't sit right with me he hasn't made any comment on it what so ever it reads to me "scum sitting back waiting for the wagon to happen" I shade my scumreads and I will keep doing it. You bring up meta on games that I was never in so I don't really see the example you're trying to put just because some players play like A doesn't mean it will happen for player B that type of thinking will get you no where Boon CLEARLY was reading the game he said L-2 right after sheeps vote on Magna so he had to have been reading the game what makes you think otherwise.

Admittedly I'm not interested in a single post of shade but more interested in trends. We had differing responses to a post and that's strange.

I didn't need to really justify the vote at all but people were talking on why I was voting Magna so I made it clelar I never did in the first place plus I got the wagon on him I wanted so no more need for my vote to be placed on him. And last but not least are you trying to say it's scummy for someone to make a statement along the lines someone else did? First of all I had no idea you even made that post

It felt prompted by my post asking you for your read. A more expected response is to go on someone better. Sure, you may not have read my other post, but was that 'someone better' really someone that hadn't posted? Do you think that unvote stood well on its own?

[Lycanfire]

@Key

How do you feel about 2F hunting for third parties?

[Lycanfire]

That's a weird question to ask since I haven't been looking for 3rd parties

@Key

How do you feel about 2F hunting for third parties?

That's a weird question to ask since I haven't been looking for 3rd parties

Yeah, I hate this.

@Key

How do you feel about 2F hunting for third parties?

2 questions for you. Why do you keep asking key questions? This is at least the second time you asked him specifically.

Second. What posts make you think I'm hunting 3rd parties

I'm scumreading you and my reads don't make sense as it is. I don't scumread Key much at all, beyond the fact that they would absolutely be your partner. Asking Key questions helps sort you both.

Second question:

Because you use specific words that don't explicitly look for scum. You're looking for "not town". This word choice isn't unusual. Typically, when someone claims someone isn't "acting town" they're making the claim to convince

others

rather than their

target

. In your posts in response to Boons, you are explicitly speaking

to

him, maybe even trying to convince him that he isn't town (which is ridiculous-unless you have a role, i.e. scum reason to infer a third party and guessed right). This is a break in continuity with how towns argue this line of reasoning-why not argue that he's flat-out scum? 3ps are by definition scum, but scum is vague and can refer to a single entity like groupscum. "Not town" seems more explicit (anything not town). Towns don't have this knowledge, and have no reason to use this line of thought beyond "this person isn't one of us, get them!" and in this case, they would be speaking to towns about the not-town behavior.


Let's look at that post

FIRST - Matt's reference to the lynch all liars was referring to my push on boon and had absolutely nothing to do with you.

side note, mod said we need to have fun so let's take a music break shall we? Here is my all time favorite song from the 70s.

Spoiler:

Second - I provided multiple reasons why you were scum, way to misrep my entire case on you.

My original reason for scum reading you had nothing at all to do with you lying... It was because

1. instead of asking matt questions which is the townie thing to do, you jumped to a conclusion that I can't see any townie jumping to.
2. You continued to push this bad reasoning on matt and even defended yourself and your reasons.
3. you abandon your scum read on matt and choose 2 other people and vote one of them, except the reason for your vote was for something non AI and as matt said basically a shitty omgus vote.

the issue of you lying came up AFTER all of these things. So at least get your facts straight if you are going to try and discredit the most towniest person in the game right now.


At this point you are confirmed scum because we have caught scum in boon and you are still arguing with the townie who basically caught him instead of voting boon. Add that to the multiple reasons I gave and the entirely accurate post that matt gave which summarized your play this game.

I think it's safe to say you can stop pretending you are town. You aren't fooling anyone anymore and if any townie thinks you are town... well I can't give my opinion about that.

The only thing easily readable and new from Boons since the last instance you called him "scum" in 480 was his "see you know my alignment/you're blacklisting town" posts in 486 492. That doesn't add up.

And Key does the same thing here speculated a jester for god knows what reason.

Bonnie could be a Jester if that role is considered as Normal.

I asked Key a seemingly innocuous question (what is your read on 2F)

when he already said he townread you

. His response? He thinks you're town. Nothing more or less than his previous comment on the matter.

More when I get back

[Lycanfire]

Not much to comment on, but I sort of like to post once a day just to keep the prods away.
No strong read on the Lycan v. Elena thing.
Boon v. Elena feels like an Elena win and does kind of negative feedback me on Lycan just due to the support he's drawing to otherwise at least somewhat structured issues but I think my real reaction is just to call Boon scum, and maybe Two Face is right in his call on the exchange.

The Boons wagon as of this post mirrors the Magna wagon 300-400 posts previous. You know- the wagon that made it's way out of RVS. How do you feel about having a stale wagon (Boons) for 100 posts, which is really just an extension of RVS (400+ stale)?

In what way do you dislike the Elena wagon? Half the voters were previously non-commital, while the other half were from 2F. Is it bad to have the Elena wagon emerge here?

You can have more of an opinion on my back and forth with Elena-no, I'm sure you do, but you're being a poor sport and holding out.

Feel like we should start with magna since boon claimed bipolar so......

The only time someone (publicly, live, in-game) claimed personal issues in my games they were scum. This is not AI.

they had an unamusing entrance indicative of lazy scum or a townie that doesn't want to share reads yet. since they had replaced in hours previous i'm not sure it's the latter. they gave intent on boons. putting them to l-2 no-k, supposedly hammering ok. no real evolution in reads or attempt to further the game. probscum. regardless of alignment does not articulate themselves well.

So do you think Momo scum fits with your Elena scum read?

Not more than most of the people in this game.

Something bothering me from the moment Elena matched Boons was that there was a dropoff in unique contributions, people saying they would catch up and so on. In this time there has only been ZZZX's arrival, Momo's re-arrival, sheep vs Grey, Momo attempting to "compromise" with 2F, and 2F affirming Boons|Magna being lynched and then that Boons is being lynched. Nothing really breaking from the status quo beyond Grey's vote-change. Anyone not of the original Elena wagon (Grey, Jack, Boons, myself) is fair game-slight bias towards people nearly flaking out of the game, but like I'm implying I don't like the altwagon being dug in concurrently with the Elena wagon/lack of consensus.

Is going for Momo here your best lynch? What is a Momo scumflip going to tell us?

so if you come out looking bad in this exchange not sheep, and your push makes me want to defend sheep over you and I don't want to defend sheep because I don't even have a town read on him.

Do you perceive Grey+Momo as a force that can derail your wagons? Why would you consider going out of the way to defend someone you don't townread otherwise?

Yet he's now trying to appeal to Boon (who he keeps calling 100% scum) to vote me since I'm "pocketing" him.

Is it a bad thing for 2F to say something sane like imply his reads are evolving, not shitpost by necessitating the lynch of two players etc. Why chastise over commend 2F for this and use it a means to continue your own reads?

Is 2F scum with Momo?

[Lycanfire]

I've got 4 scummy people ahead of Momo so why would I waste time on him or anyone else for that matter?

Well given your top two are Town (me) and Boon (who I don't think seems likely scum given how easily his slot was quick-wagonned on lurker status given the lack of pressure on other lurker slots) are at best 1/2 and probably 0/2 the fact that you acknowledge you are too lazy to look beyond your limited and myopic views isn't surprising. So given you don't bother to actually explain who your other two scum reads above Momo are in any useful fashion (and I doubt you've nailed possible Momo partners in those mystery slots) I'll just reserve this for the time Momo ever flips scum to show you how weak your game play was to this point.

That of course assumes you are Town which I'm still not 100% on.

This may be a hold-my-beer post but this can be interpreted that you think Boons is a town mislynch altwagon to yourself AND you are town AND your wagon comp isn't bad THEN scum are ignoring (2) mislynches (yourself, 1 of boons|elena). From your pov in this post shouldn't 1 of boons|elena be a town driven scum lynch?

Another question: why attempt to start a fourth wagon?

Lastly, what are:
dsob
dsob
tsob
tsoc

because i'm not going to play games only to have you spell out dankest later or something stupid.

[Lycanfire]

Wagon age doesn't prove wagon case strength.

Sure it does. It brings into question why Boons is alive if the Boons wagon is really just an extension of the Magna wagon:

Votecount 1.2

Boonskiies

:

Elena Fisher

:

Keyenpeydee

:

BlueBloodedToffee

:

Boonskiies

momo

:

-Grey-

:

Jaack

:

MagnaofIllusion

:

Elena Fisher, mattblackguy, TwoFace, BlueBloodedToffee, Cooperative Sheep

mattblackguy

:

Lycanfire

:

Cooperative Sheep

: Jaack

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

:

TwoFace

:

MagnaofIllusion, -Grey-

MagnaofIllusion is the leading wagon with five votes.
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod notes

:
momo replaces cchengshi effective immediately.

Boons wagon

Votecount 1.3

Boonskiies

:

Elena Fisher, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy, TwoFace

Elena Fisher

:

Keyenpeydee

:

BlueBloodedToffee

:

momo

:

-Grey-

:

Jaack

:

MagnaofIllusion

:

BlueBloodedToffee

, momo

mattblackguy

:

Lycanfire

:

Cooperative Sheep

: Jaack

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

:

TwoFace

:

MagnaofIllusion, -Grey-, Boonskiies

Boonskiies is the leading wagon with 4 votes (L-3).
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod notes

:
TheRealGin-N-Tonic has been prodded.
Please remember to keep the thread positive. This is a game, you're all supposed to be having fun!

Elena wagon forms

Votecount 1.4

Boonskiies

:

Elena Fisher, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy, TwoFace

Elena Fisher

: Lycanfire,

-Grey-

Keyenpeydee

:

BlueBloodedToffee

:

momo

:

MagnaofIllusion

-Grey-

:

Jaack

:

MagnaofIllusion

:

BlueBloodedToffee

, momo

mattblackguy

:

Lycanfire

:

Cooperative Sheep

: Jaack

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

:

TwoFace

:

Boonskiies

Boonskiies is the leading wagon with 4 votes (L-3).
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod notes

:
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2017-03-21 00:00:00)

Peak of Elena wagon

Votecount 1.5

Boonskiies

:

Elena Fisher, Cooperative Sheep, mattblackguy, TwoFace

Elena Fisher

: Lycanfire,

-Grey-

, Jaack,

Boonskiies

Keyenpeydee

:

BlueBloodedToffee

:

momo

:

MagnaofIllusion

-Grey-

:

Jaack

:

MagnaofIllusion

:

BlueBloodedToffee

, momo

mattblackguy

:

Lycanfire

:

Cooperative Sheep

:

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

:

TwoFace

:

Boonskiies and Elena Fisher are the leading wagons with 4 votes (L-3).
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod notes

:
Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2017-03-21 00:00:00)
mattblackguy has requested replacement.
Lycanfire is a cool dude.

[Lycanfire]

I never said anything to suggest that the Elena wagon was bad, I did say I wasn't really personally sold on it - is there a reason you think I really should be?

In 668 you seemed to imply you hated it based on associatives. Can you explain?

I don't have a strong enough read on Elena to want to attack the wagon on her like I'm attacking the wagon on Magna, because at least with Magna I've straight up started to say I think he's town. With Elena the most I have is an early gut read. I suppose I *could* leap in and start attacking the wagon just to get reactions, but I'd much rather let that one stew awhile to get reads for myself on the people attacking and defending it. Is there part of your case you'd like my thoughts on?

I care less about your opinion of my case and more about your opinions of Elena's posts.

[Lycanfire]

oh it's in another tab don't worry

[Lycanfire]

Yeah, I hate this.

You asked a question which says I did something I definitely didn't do so shocker you hate it.

I'm town, basically confirmed at this point so you best just move the magna to save face.


But first. Please explain why you indirectly falsely accused me of 3rd party hunting

You keep trying to use role knowledge to strongarm day. I hate that. This is a normal, and you can't expect me to believe a townie has the information you seem to have. If you're scum that makes for a simpler explanation.

The only thing easily readable and new from Boons since the last instance you called him "scum" in 480 was his "see you know my alignment/you're blacklisting town" posts in 486 492. That doesn't add up.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here or what exactly what issues you have. Can you explain better?

You went from calling Boons "scum" to "not town". You tried to talk down Boons by assuring him he was "not town" rather than tell others that he was "not town". Just what is that trying to prove? Lastly, those are the only real posts of note between this shift of "scum"/"not town".

Asking Key questions helps sort you both.

Why are you busy trying to sort the person who's basically being NKd night 1?

The fact that you're trying so hard to promote this to me when I have previously flat-out said this is a scumtell of yours pretty much absolves any AtE/woe me posts you've made in recent games as town.

You think I as scum can talk confidently about PRs not being in the game?

No. I've basically made it impossible for any scum to fake claim a PR this game. Why would I do that as scum?

How could I have the confidence level to do that as scum?

If I were scum there is no way I can make a bold statement like that.

Scum can spec all they want, PRs won't give a shit.

[Lycanfire]

Something bothering me from the moment Elena matched Boons was that there was a dropoff in unique contributions, people saying they would catch up and so on. In this time there has only been ZZZX's arrival, Momo's re-arrival, sheep vs Grey, Momo attempting to "compromise" with 2F, and 2F affirming Boons|Magna being lynched and then that Boons is being lynched. Nothing really breaking from the status quo beyond Grey's vote-change. Anyone not of the original Elena wagon (Grey, Jack, Boons, myself) is fair game-slight bias towards people nearly flaking out of the game, but like I'm implying I don't like the altwagon being dug in concurrently with the Elena wagon/lack of consensus.

Is going for Momo here your best lynch? What is a Momo scumflip going to tell us?

First off lynching scum is always better than mislynching Town. Always. So downplaying the validity of it as a wagon makes me wonder … why would you go out of your want to do so Day 1 with no flips?

1) I never said lynch town
2) I never suggested no lynch
3) Is Momo your best lynch?
4) (3, cont) if Momo is scum, what does that tell us?

Scum aren’t ignoring a mislynch on myself or Boon. The game-state means they don’t probably feel comfortable that apathy is going to take hold and enough people are just going to say “Fuck it, taking too long, let’s lynch one and sort it out tomorrow”. So they are just sitting back. Which is why I suspect BBT at this stage. Jaack also fits that profile. Elena maybe fills that void as well but as I said I have to look back at how her wagon came together to see what I think. Scum certainly don't have to stick their necks out when if I am correct about DSOC / ThingBig they have honorary scum doing the work for them which they then can attack down the line.

So Boons, Elena, and yourself are all town. Scum aren't pushing anyone because it's seemingly

more

inconspicuous to do it by end of day. How do you know Boons and Elena's alignments again?

[Lycanfire]

As I've already said about Elena, I town read her - not strongly but I do. I think her posts have been fine, I don't think she has egged on anything, and I think she has been reasonably insightful especially in consideration of the average in this game.
Does that answer your question?

how do you feel about post 59 post 64 post 116 post 219 post 225 231

(matt) post 246 post 247

(elena)

post 255

you post a lot about how you feel but i don't see you reference posts or give direct commentary

Sup.

Anyone got Qs for da momo

why do you want to lynch sheep?

(this is a shitpost)

get over yourself.

The fact that you're trying so hard to promote this to me when I have previously flat-out said this is a scumtell of yours pretty much absolves any AtE/woe me posts you've made in recent games as town.

1. can you link me to the post where you flat out said it was a scumtell? I did an iso search of your posts and scumtell only appeared once. That one time is the post I am responding to.

2. How can that be a scumtell of mine, when I have only been scum once and I didn't do that as scum that game?

Oh yes okay you're not that player wink

so lycan has now been caught in at least 3 lies. if you are town you need to work on that going forward. you have literally no credibility left

VOTE: TwoFace

[Lycanfire]

RC. He did this in Newbie 1717 (fakeclaim as town-AtE/lying) Newbie 1718 (scum-AtE/lying). He frequently complains he's going to get night killed regardless of align and is prone to tunneling.

[Lycanfire]

If you're RC, trying to promote this to

me

when I said it was a scumtell in Newbie 1718 after

Spyro

and

Backstabbers

(actually add backstabbers up there he fakeclaimed/AtE there too) wouldn't earn you towncred.

[Lycanfire]

As for 4 – Momo flipping scum today isn’t able to be fully parsed as there hasn’t been a wagon of any size on him. Why are you asking for analysis on a hypothetical at this stage? I will say a Momo flip as scum solidifies Boon as close to confirmed Town as you can get due to how the game has progressed.

I feel like going for Momo is lazy for the reasons you're stating here and therefore can't be your "best lynch". I know you answered 3, but you never told me the first time around what the flip would do.

Where did I say I knew Elena’s alignment? I mean I said in my response that Elena is the only wagon that I could see as being on scum and I would really need to review the wagon to see for certain.

Boons is likely Town for game-state. Which I also already told you in previous posts.

You're arguing that Boons is both town and wagoned by the town-that's too ridiculous.

[Lycanfire]

i think it's funny that instead of trying to prove he didn't actually lie his response is to just say fuck it and vote me.

i already picked apart the post where you called boons not town and you have the nerve to say i'm lying. fuck off.

[Lycanfire]

Elena doesn't feel scum.

Sheep is a null, but leaning town.

tell me why elena is town and tell me how sheep hasn't towntold a stupid amount of times

[Lycanfire]

849 lynch this

[Lycanfire]

Yes, please show me why I am wrong about not lying about you calling Boons not town.

[Lycanfire]

1) He isn't pointing out any issues;

2) I represented the truth.

3) He explicitly called Boons not town

4) He's creating a narrative where I'm not to be trusted, so he's the lynch for today for being a manipulative scumfucker.

[Lycanfire]

you have yet to provide any evidence of me using the phrase "not town" in reference to boon

You are the one to make that accusation, so the burden of proof is on you.

I don't even understand your argument, because "not town" is scum so even if I had used the phrase "not town" I would still be calling him scum.

You also asked keyen what his thoughts of me looking for 3rd parties was. Which is basically another accusation made about me.

I am waiting for evidnece form you to support that accusation as well.

Right now those are 2 bold face lies and you keep refusing to support your claims with physical evidence.

Are you Donald Trump?

if you are man enough to make an accusation, be man enough to provide the proof when asked. if you can't be man enough to admit your mistake and apologize.

Enough gaslighting in one post to terrorize a sanitarium

526 there's my proof-and you're still mad about me questioning key to sort you? lol. maybe if you get really upset he'll be next.

[Lycanfire]

[Lycanfire]

now can I have the link to me looking for third parties? I can't wait to see what you come up for that one.

sure, it's in post 526

[Lycanfire]

can't make a good post right now

hate the sheep wagon, i think it's indicative that we hit scum at some point. dislike magna's theory, how he brings up a previous game versus how i feel with how own posting based on that game.

still waiting on momo to answer my question about sheep. i want to see posts that lead to a real scumread, not just one you claim to have.

want ZZZX's pbp. want them to fix up their nullreads.

lot of feelings re: 2F, Key. i don't absolutely scumread 2F if they're not RC. key's sheepy behavior esp. jumping on my "lie" is really opportunistic. going to placeholder that for now VOTE: Key

will iron out my thoughts/answer any question/get back to magna's questions when i get back

pedit: continuing with lurking scum theory is a bad one and if i'm right it doesn't matter if twoface spams ten pages of who they want lynched because we've found scum

[Lycanfire]

Lycan

- Actually thinking about "Momo is a lazy vote" on the heels of Spyro the Dragon Mafia I'm a bit surprised at you peddling this stance. Especially having seen me move off my best scum read (SirCakez) who was getting no traction ...

So I'm going to come off as an asshole here but it's my impression that we make similar kinds of posts. In

Spyro

I made a catch up post agreeing with your wagon on Cakez being the best lynch of the day, gave a reason why, and then gave more reasons for why I thought Leon was scum, and started a vanity wagon. I don't do vanity wagons just to be against the grain. If one thing is a sure thing, but I think day benefits from being continued, to discuss things that were overlooked, I derail the primary wagon to discuss what I want to have discussed.

You hated that for some goddamn reason, and rather than work with me, or get me to elaborate why I promised a conftown Gin on Cakez scumflip, you said continued your line of reasoning that my slot was scum with Cakez due to a single associative from Cakez.


My point is that we're seeing this game completely differently and unlike in Spyro you're not treating me adversarially (where did your scumread on me go for instance?)

If the premise is “Elena is scum” I’m not sure what narrative make any sense with that. It doesn’t track for distancing purposes for scum to really make a push on a partner and then immediately dismantle it. No Town cred to be gained there. If you think Town assembled that wagon on scum then what does the following movement of wagons say to you?

The premise was that from your point of view, assuming you were not being scum-wagoned (you seem distrustworthy of that in some post somewhere but that was my impression when you called 2F probably town), one of Boons or Elena makes sense as scum. If you did think you were being scum wagoned, then there's no real scum counter going on. Boons being scum would justify the Elena wagon while Elena being scum would justify how the Magna+Boons wagon ended up being dug in. That's my take on the wagon movement.

RC. He did this in Newbie 1717 (fakeclaim as town-AtE/lying) Newbie 1718 (scum-AtE/lying). He frequently complains he's going to get night killed regardless of align and is prone to tunneling.

jesus christ, please don't compare me to that idiot. I am not an RC alt.

Going back to this for a second. If you honestly thought I was RC why didn't you vote magna or boon? RC is notorious for hard bussing for town cred.

Why would I sheep a scumread? I would grab surescum based on this tell I outlined in Newbie 1718. I don't think I would sheep town!RC either.

Guys if I can make shitposts on my way out of the door to work every day people can give me easy answers to easy questions thanks

[Lycanfire]

ot of feelings re: 2F, Key. i don't absolutely scumread 2F if they're not RC. key's sheepy behavior esp. jumping on my "lie" is really opportunistic. going to placeholder that for now VOTE: Key

OMG WHAT THE F IS THIS?!

"Jumping on your lie" is me being opportunistic when it's obviously you're lying?

Your defense of saying "Not Town" isn't believable. TF did just say "Not Town" and you said it could be from a third party when his posts are obviously saying and pointing out that he is referring to "scum" rather than third parties.

You also hadn't pointed out clearly where did you get the Not Town impression in which where you gotten the idea that he's searching/finding third parties.

Or is it just you imagining things and just overlooking at everything? If so, it doesn't sound that way. You could've just admitted it other than explaining your mistake.

Gosh.

I addressed my problem with TwoFace's post, and defined what "not town" was, my problem with it, and just because you type ""not town"" into your search bar and have it turn up 0 results doesn't take away from the fact that I analyzed how he was speaking to Boons and defined the phrase ""not town"" myself in a different post. You aren't doing fuck all for the game state.

[Lycanfire]

It felt prompted by my post asking you for your read. A more expected response is to go on someone better. Sure, you may not have read my other post, but was that 'someone better' really someone that hadn't posted? Do you think that unvote stood well on its own?

i don't think I can answer this given the way the games progressed and this is out of date if you wanna build another case or ask me new questions by all means that'll prob be better way of solving me[/quote]

i feel like you were trying to start shit in those posts and gave up your scumread on matt too easily. i'm going to be lazy because i have one minute to make this post and copypaste this

As I've already said about Elena, I town read her - not strongly but I do. I think her posts have been fine, I don't think she has egged on anything, and I think she has been reasonably insightful especially in consideration of the average in this game.
Does that answer your question?

how do you feel about post 59 post 64 post 116 post 219 post 225 231

(matt) post 246 post 247

(elena)

post 255

these are the posts of yours that i hate

[Lycanfire]

yeah neither of you are reading into that particularly well enough. if he was claiming mafia regardless of alignment he would get modkilled. grammatically he's claiming at the very least that his partners are town. still didn't like how he was trying to get magna replaced based on hurt feelings rather than demanding a mercy lynch on the slot.

[Lycanfire]

Alright then.

VOTE: Grey

Town would be at least trying to get this game moving, liking any perspectives coming into the game after all this chaos. Your post comes across is impatient that a mislynch hasn't happened and that we are taking the time to actually look into things and analyze.

Your vote is bullshit, because I've been apathetic for weeks and there's been nothing DONE YET to change that.

you seemed pretty firey with your sheep read

[Lycanfire]

Firstly who says that I don’t have a scum-read on you still?

I say it. In the post you're replying to. You scumread my slot, yet never offered shade on me until this post. I kept probing your motives, seeing where you want to take your theory, and, after explaining why it's all bad and attempting to convince you of the possibility you're wrong, you nope out and dig in. I can't say I felt particularly suspected by you at all outside of that one comment in reply to my first content post.

So the fact that you take such issue with my read on Momo hear is suspect, frankly.

Please suspect it. I have no intent to vote Momo right now. I feel like a bully saying this about someone that has said they're trying their best, but I VIread them.

1) They hold super passive, popular reads
2) Provide no real reasoning behind their reads (beyond that cryptic line about sheep)
3) Insist they're helping town
4) ... Insist they're not scummy
5) and, despite all this supposedly came from epicmafia, so this isn't their first rodeo and none of this looks good.

Yet, you jump at it and call it scum. I shrug, and consider it bad. He was flat-out called bad in the thread when he replaced in. Each time he makes a bad post, it's suddenly one more reason to lynch him, you jump on him, and pretty much exclusively (521 828 923...you admit in 825 you would search for his partners but try to wash your hands of it and dry them on twoface). I have to drag what you would think with a confirmed scum!momo in post885 and practically prove you could have been doing more. The closest you come to speculating on other peoples motives is suggesting scum!boons and to insinuate that TwoFace is shit at mafia but probably town.

And please don’t pretend your play there looked Town. You lurked like a champ when I as the back-up Mod of Darkest Dungeon knew you lurking was definitely in your scum toolbox. And you hitched yourself to Vifam who plays every game to make his scum game more effective so you had that going against you also.

... I WAS town in Spyro. I didn't lurk, people now on my blacklist derailed the game with bullshit content. I shared a substantial amount of reads in my hydra PT,

all

of which were bang on, minus going back on my RS scumread and my scumread on Lane before he ICed.

As for Darkest Dungeon, I didn't lurk there either. I admitted to strategically lurking in the mafia PT one time because Zefiend and I were trying to put a plan into action

since day 1

but two town derp hammers-day 1 and 2 meant that zefiend was removed from the game before he even had a chance to post. So, yes, I'm sorry for getting an extra prod or whatever

so my teammate could post without getting instantly lynched

. I'm sure I was a real detriment to the game-you know-the most active member of the scumteam. The one that caught up the scumteam twice. The person that had to re-brief one of their partners the last night of the game of everything that had happened since pregame and things that were public knowledge to the town. Somebody that suggested the entire scumteam replace out day 1 for the good of the game and for the respect of the mod. I'm truly a lurksac.

I don't know where "Lycan lurks as scum" came from. Firebringer said it in

Steven Universe 2

, a game that was spammed to high hell, that I wrote 10,000 words of notes on anyway, and he lied in saying it because I had a single scumgame on this site, and I was the primary driver in discussion in that game. Oh, yes, I was town in Steven Universe 2, not like anyone will remember my presence in that game considering I ragequit the hydra within three weeks.

What reasonable conclusion did you expect me to reach that game when I was correctly reading Cakez as scum and saw play from your slot that said “reasonable partner”?

You flat out treated me unfairly even though I was open to work with you. In this game you're like a knockoff version of TwoFace. You don't want to change course but you aren't flaming the playerlist for not sheeping you. I've given you plenty of opportunities to evaluate the game state & further your reads yet in the end you only start behaving as you did in that game when I prompt you by bringing up a behavioral inconsistency.

The fact that you are just saying “Well you had to think there was a scum counter-wagon going on if you are Town” is suspect Lycan

The fact that you have zero suspicion of the counterwagons is more suspect. You're throwing everything on lurker scum.

I hate Momo's wagon comp enough that I'm calling intent on Magna after he gets to L-1. Would want Aristophanes to bus!

[Lycanfire]

any specific posts of sheep's that you hate momo? i tr sheep, sell me on your read.

[Lycanfire]

i rolled scum with thinkbig on an alt and proceeded to facepalm when he PR hunted by trying to start RQS and let myself get force replaced

[Lycanfire]

the alternative was bussing him but since i was a one-shot iron traitor it would have outed what happened LOL

[Lycanfire]

i rolled scum with thinkbig on an alt and proceeded to facepalm when he PR hunted by trying to start RQS and let myself get force replaced

What game was that?

just how often do you do this? it was stack the deck

[Lycanfire]

What's your read on the 2F slot right now boons?

[Lycanfire]

grey can you stop trying to be mr steal your reply

[Lycanfire]

i'll tell you that i'm ignoring you and will get back to you on that when i'm personally satisfied

[Lycanfire]

:shrug: i have a good reason to townread tb too but shutting down my question to boons doesn't exactly further that scumcase

[Lycanfire]

if i was giving him a softball, and he tripped and killed himself over it was it really a scum soft ball?

[Lycanfire]

... Are you soft balling me and telling me to explain?

[Lycanfire]

three of those had it coming tbh

[Lycanfire]

i'm more interested in hammering magna than voting grey rn

[Lycanfire]

i'm more interested in hammering magna than voting grey rn

lynch me over MoI. Gives me an out. I forgot that TwoFace wasn't the reason I hated this game.

what's your read on magna?

[Lycanfire]

three of those had it coming tbh

exactly. It's scum enjoying the chaos that town is creating. It's why he got upset when the game was actually starting to progress and he immediately started discrediting things.

what kind of progress would scum!grey fear?

[Lycanfire]

i'm more interested in hammering magna than voting grey rn

lynch me over MoI. Gives me an out. I forgot that TwoFace wasn't the reason I hated this game.

what's your read on magna?

MoI is going to flip town

what makes you think this?

[Lycanfire]

three of those had it coming tbh

exactly. It's scum enjoying the chaos that town is creating. It's why he got upset when the game was actually starting to progress and he immediately started discrediting things.

what kind of progress would scum!grey fear?

actual analysis. Not chaos. His personality lets him fuck around as scum, because he'll do it as town also. It's how I used to get away with easy hammers as scum.

even with the replacements there's no guarantee that the game direction will change at all. i don't see why grey would behave any differently for this reason.

[Lycanfire]

i'm going to continue to be not-subtle and say that boons v grey feels ignited by how i've been engaging magna. would say magna/boons/aristophanes atm

[Lycanfire]

sure VOTE: Boons

[Lycanfire]

Do any of you ever think you're on the opposite of the autism spectrum and you're social on levels other people simply aren't?

[Lycanfire]

Do any of you ever think you're on the opposite of the autism spectrum and you're social on levels other people simply aren't?

On odd occasion, yeah.
Is this relevant?

well, yeah

[Lycanfire]

Lycan is to be sorted still.

it's the scum conundrum of how to deal with lycan. lycan is always scum, but to scum, lycan is god-emperor-it and unlynchable.

[Lycanfire]

Sheep: Has your read on Boons not evolved in the past 40 pages?

Do you think Grey is town?

Do you believe both popular wagons are on scum? How do you feel about the people that were on them (at any time?)

[Lycanfire]

We are not ending the day until two face can be replaced. Any hammer is a scum claim

disagree

the only good quickhammer is one that involves yourself, aristophanes and i on magna. if you aren't willing to do that, revise your position.

[Lycanfire]

i'm offering an impossible scenario TB, plus in this scenario the one where aristophanes actively gets magna lynched could be worth just as much or more as the replacement's thoughts

[Lycanfire]

Jesus christ thingbig i was trying to tell elena to fuck off in a way that wouldnt claim your role

[Lycanfire]

I dont think people were following that 2f claimed matt as partner w/your replacement. That is why i made that social-comment because aristo and boons absolutely did not get it.

[Lycanfire]

That's why I asked Grey if he was soft balling me to claim why I was asking boons for his read on 2f. If he reads 2f as town, you should be read as town making his vote shit.

[Lycanfire]

Scum claiming masons can be dealt with.

The way 2f claimed means scum are forced to shoot into it, so

[Lycanfire]

Anyway vote on TB after I said I played wih scumtb along with shade on elena afterwards seemed opportunistic, as if he was hoping i had a scumread on TB so I would derail his wagon. I don't really care about his fakeclaim but it did feel like he was buddying me earlier, so that's why I questioned sheep about questioning him mainly by his claim.

[Lycanfire]

Scum claiming masons can be dealt with.

The way 2f claimed means scum are forced to shoot into it, so

Can you dumb this down for me when I read this it feels like 2 dif statements like the first one is talking about the masons being town and one being scum was that the goal or?

Masons cant be scum in a normal and im not going any more into it

[Lycanfire]

VOTE: Lycan

I calmed down.

Glad you calmed down. Give us something. Why should we lynch Lycan over you?

cuz he's scum and im town. ill also go 4 alena.

this is what i've called in past games as interaction bombing

still happy to go 1:1 with boons though

need that replacement, going to get to those posts on the last page when i get to my computer

[Lycanfire]

i believe it's explicitly normal that masons have their alignment confirmed to each other and that werewolves and monks is a unique set up (werewolves can't be monks, mafia can't be masons) and not subject to normalcy rules

[Lycanfire]

unofficial votecount

Boonskiies: Lycanfire,

Cooperative Sheep, Keyenpeydee, momo, Elena Fisher

Elena Fisher:
Keyenpeydee:
BlueBloodedToffee:
momo: MagnaofIllusion,

ZZZX, Aristophanes,

-Grey-:
Aristophanes:
MagnaofIllusion: BlueBloodedToffee, TwoFace
ThinkBig:
Lycanfire:

Boonskiies

Cooperative Sheep:
ZZZX:
TwoFace:
Not Voting: BlueBloodedToffee,

ThinkBig, -Grey-

No Lynch:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2017-03-25 00:00:00)

bolds are changes since vc 1.9, aristo joke voted in between. pedit fuck off aristophanes

[Lycanfire]

okay so i managed to not drunk text my boss i'll do things tomorrow why the fuck is it 10 to 5

[Lycanfire]

feel free to talk about things that aren't masons and werewolves

[Lycanfire]

you have my permission. i'm serious.