Yellowstone

[JacksonVirgo]

FIRST!

VOTE: JACKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

VOTE: NORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[JacksonVirgo]

MINE

You betrayed poor Nero :c

Therefore you must be scum!

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm a bear... With a tire...

Scums are confirmed Noraa and Toogeloo, ezpz

[JacksonVirgo]

Bear fact #1

A group of pandas is called

Spoiler:

an embarrassment of pandas

Yes last time I bought an embarrassment of pandas I was embarrassed when my mum walked in

[JacksonVirgo]

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

[JacksonVirgo]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe you've hit a bearier when you cannot understand my bearfaced bear puns, what an embearassing revelation for you.

Go eat some Strawbearies and hope to gain some grip on your unbearable reality.

[JacksonVirgo]

No

[JacksonVirgo]

You

[JacksonVirgo]

Don't

[JacksonVirgo]

Anymore owo

[JacksonVirgo]

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

Apologies for needing to sleep Anyways, I thought you'd be appreciating a slower-paced game after the whirlwind that was Bending

Bending was intense so a good change is always good lol

[JacksonVirgo]

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Is this an alt?

Btw I am super gutted about the flavour. I thought it was going to be the town as bears with guns and the scum as the park rangers (like Yogie Bear kinda)

No I'm not an alt lol, I'm an actually new user

You have an uncanny familiarity with mafia jargon for a new user in their first game onsite. Hmmm

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

VOTE: Horselady
I'm at least moderately serious here. If you truly wanted to get out of RVS as you posit, you would do something yourself rather than making a post asking others to do it

I read their RVS post to be more of a joking stab at everyone, do you think that's it's AI?

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean meh as much as something can be on pg3. Yeah it could be just a joke at face value, but also potentially an easy way for scum to look involved in driving the game forwards while not really saying anything

I can see both ways yeah, it's definitely a joke but I'm not really convinced there's scum motivation behind it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh so it was serious

VOTE: Horse

[JacksonVirgo]

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Just because you have no reads yet doesn't mean you force the task on trying to other people, it's not a townie mindset at all. I was honestly reading it as a complete joke but obviously, I was wrong.

[JacksonVirgo]

Except you weren't trying to, you pushed the task onto other people.

[JacksonVirgo]

JacksonVirgo, how much do you actually think Horsewoman is scum, and how much is your vote for pressure's sake?

Me answering this question would immediately remove all of the pressure if my vote

is

for pressure and what's even the use of this question?

[JacksonVirgo]

If it's mostly just a pressure vote, then I believe that the following conversation will be worth more than the pressure JacksonVirgo is contributing.

Could you clarify, this makes no sense to me at all

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm going to head off to sleep now but I'm gonna say a few words before I do.

Llama's "read-fishing" strikes me as strange to ask as Town, it's like they're trying to fake content and see if my vote is real or otherwise to see if they can start pushing there as well. Either that or they trying to gauge the collective read on their buddy (and whether or not it's just for pressure) though that one is kinda weird to do objectively and I doubt they'd be that blatant as scumbuddies but it's a weird interaction nonetheless. Horse was blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from their posts by saying it's absolutely pro-town to hide behind the efforts of other players by claiming to have involved themselves with pushing the game out of RVS. Both are individually scummy but I'm trying to get a feel of whether Llama's post lead to them being possibly aligned or otherwise.

@Horse and @Llama

, do you have scum/town games under your belt and if so can you link a few?

[JacksonVirgo]

Fine, I'll go through both possibilities before you answer then. I would have rather had it the other way round so I could have a better understanding of your perspective first, but *shrug*

In 68, Horsewoman says she doesn't have any reads yet. This means she probably won't have much to offer when pressured. So why does JV choose to pressure there right afterwards? It's a lead doomed to dry up, since Horsewoman has already said she's come up short of any reads. A pressure vote there makes little sense as a result, and I'm not sure why JV chose to push there right after seeing evidence that it wouldn't lead to much.

So I thought JV might actually think Horsewoman is scum. But based on what's been posted so far I'm not seeing it. My gut reaction to Horsewoman's posts has been town, and the evidence against her in 71 is fairly baseline - it's a lot about what town SHOULD be doing, but not really evidence that Horsewoman IS SCUM.

So tl;dr I don't think JV's vote makes much sense from any town perspective and is kind of doing the exact thing Horsewoman is being accused of: creating 'content' that won't actually go anywhere.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

The vote isn't for pressure, I think their inconsistencies are scummy and how they are pushing the work to other players is definitely not a pro-town mindset. Them claiming it is in a backwards way to discredit my case is another tell that I'm heading in the right direction. And I'm not calling them out for making content that goes nowhere, I am calling them out for asking others to do the work for them and attempting to take credit for it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

This is the post of my main read, they're not even trying to post on interactions or anything. The game right now is on page 3, nobody would really have any solid reads at all but it doesn't mean we all just give up and let other's do everything. I first read this as a joke post as I've said, which is why I brushed off Marks read but then when they made that second post I quoted said that it was at least semi-serious and that's plain anti-town behaviour and I'm not going to let that slip regardless if they're Town acting anti-town.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

And then when I called it out for being anti-town behaviour they flipped the wording to make them look like they're actively trying to push the game out of RVS and solve and in extension discredit my case, they're blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from RVS. This is just straight scummy behaviour, what Town would twist the wording in this situation for their own self-gain.

[JacksonVirgo]

My mistake, it was page 3. It's page 4 now

[JacksonVirgo]

Llama, you can't actually expect any case to be any more than baseline when we've barely exited RVS.

[JacksonVirgo]

Llama, you can't actually expect any case to be any more than baseline when we've barely exited RVS.

Also why do you just instinctively think I was voting for pressure?

[JacksonVirgo]

--snip--

Your other posts are ++TR but asking for meta on pg4 strikes me as a bit forced - particularly as this is nothing something I recall you doing in our 2 previous games together where you were town

I don't recall doing so in those games no, but I didn't feel a need to either. Depends on the game

[JacksonVirgo]

--snip--

Two questions, 1) do you think HW gave up and let others do everything?

2) In your experience, do all town members behave and act upon posts the same?

1) I don't fully understand your question but I'll answer it as I've read it. I don't think they've "given up", I think that they aren't putting in the effort to begin with.

2) Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia. I feel a policy-elimination is needed for players like that regardless, even though it never happens in practice. However, my entire case on Horse isn't exactly them acting anti-town in the normal sense. As I've stated, they've been acting for their own personal gain which is more likely from a scum mindset than a simple Town acting anti-town. Whether that be from personal bias against those types of players or whatnot it's one of my two top scum-reads, the other being LlamaBeanie.

[JacksonVirgo]

Stealing this, won't return soz

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't like Marky's vote on Horsewoman. Feels like an overreaction honestly.
Jacko's reminds me of Shelly's mini we played in recently so I'll locktown Jacko for it for now.

I took Horsewoman's post as a joke as well but honestly even if it isn't, its nothing big, yeah? Like half the time im town, I just sheep people who actually don't suck's reads lol.

Moving on to read page 4~

What about Mark's vote seems like an overreaction? Also what about my plays compared to shelly's mini makes me lock-town? I don't want to get pocketed here by noraabear. OH MY GOD NORAA IS A BEAR

[JacksonVirgo]

Jacko doesn't always make sense is what I've found. I think he kinda has "wrong place, wrong time" ~vibes~

Yeahh, I still try though :c

[JacksonVirgo]

*finger cracking*

Lets freaking do this.

Spoiler: 2

Get used to these, amma do my thang here.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Is this an alt?

Btw I am super gutted about the flavour. I thought it was going to be the town as bears with guns and the scum as the park rangers (like Yogie Bear kinda)

Unlucky there booboo! No pinching of the a pic-a-nic baskets for yoou! (☆Θ艸Θ)

MINE

You betrayed poor Nero :c

Therefore you must be scum!

I approve of this logic (•́⌄•́๑)૭✧

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

You just did.

Spoiler: 3

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

THEN PUT SOME LIFE INTO IT! ARE YOU A MAD DOCTOR OR NOT!?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe you've hit a bearier when you
cannot understand my bearfaced bear puns, what an embearassing revelation for you.

Go eat some Strawbearies and hope to gain some grip on your unbearable reality.

Get in the bin.

I can't even bear this game anymore, it's too dead :c

Apologies for needing to sleep Anyways, I thought you'd be appreciating a slower-paced game after the whirlwind that was Bending

Sleep is for scum. VOTE: Markiplier

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

Ooof. (ʘᗩʘ')

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

⌈O ▂▂ O⌉

Spoiler: 4

JacksonVirgo, how much do you actually think Horsewoman is scum, and how much is your vote for pressure's sake?

Me answering this question would immediately remove all of the pressure if my vote

is

for pressure and what's even the use of this question?

Agreed.

Fine, I'll go through both possibilities before you answer then. I would have rather had it the other way round so I could have a better understanding of your perspective first, but *shrug*

In 68, Horsewoman says she doesn't have any reads yet. This means she probably won't have much to offer when pressured. So why does JV choose to pressure there right afterwards? It's a lead doomed to dry up, since Horsewoman has already said she's come up short of any reads. A pressure vote there makes little sense as a result, and I'm not sure why JV chose to push there right after seeing evidence that it wouldn't lead to much.

So I thought JV might actually think Horsewoman is scum. But based on what's been posted so far I'm not seeing it. My gut reaction to Horsewoman's posts has been town, and the evidence against her in 71 is fairly baseline - it's a lot about what town SHOULD be doing, but not really evidence that Horsewoman IS SCUM.

So tl;dr I don't think JV's vote makes much sense from any town perspective and is kind of doing the exact thing Horsewoman is being accused of: creating 'content' that won't actually go anywhere.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

This is interesting, as we're now in a loop. For D1 page whatever we're on this sounds far too certain. and more votes that are "doomed to dry up"

I'm going to head off to sleep now but I'm gonna say a few words before I do.

Llama's "read-fishing" strikes me as strange to ask as Town, it's like they're trying to fake content and see if my vote is real or otherwise to see if they can start pushing there as well. Either that or they trying to gauge the collective read on their buddy (and whether or not it's just for pressure) though that one is kinda weird to do objectively and I doubt they'd be that blatant as scumbuddies but it's a weird interaction nonetheless. Horse was blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from their posts by saying it's absolutely pro-town to hide behind the efforts of other players by claiming to have involved themselves with pushing the game out of RVS. Both are individually scummy but I'm trying to get a feel of whether Llama's post lead to them being possibly aligned or otherwise.

@Horse and @Llama

, do you have scum/town games under your belt and if so can you link a few?

Your other posts are ++TR but asking for meta on pg4 strikes me as a bit forced - particularly as this is nothing something I recall you doing in our 2 previous games together where you were town

Meta is trash!

VOTE: Llamamamamamamamamamamamamamamamaamamama

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Why don't you explain now? And why aren't you voting them if you think they're 99% scum?

[JacksonVirgo]

Not sure what I think of llama honestly. I feel like llama reads somewhat genuine and im willing to town bin for now.

That's a terrible reason to town-bin someone, you can't townbin and say you're not sure what you think of them. Those are contradicting statements

[JacksonVirgo]

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

They're a player that is anti-town to it's core. They hammer any E-1 regardless of alignment and never takes games seriously, at least as far as I know.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: flea

I'll be MIA for about 24 hours as I'm traveling.

Is this an RVS vote or a serious one?

[JacksonVirgo]

Bear fact #2

Spoiler:

they taste delicious in gummi form

"You had me in the first half"

[JacksonVirgo]

Your pushes don't make any sense to me. Thats what's similar. Its also like page 5 so you actually need to chill a bit more if ur town.

I mean it's often I can't fully explain my reads yeah, but I am going to try regardless of what page it is so you can't actually expect the deathtunneling expert Jacko to chill out lmfao.

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean ... ok?
What I meant is that im unsure of the conclusion that I came to but llama is basically a null town lean.

Oh so you have no other null-town or higher reads than Llama/Horse and myself? That's awkward wording Noraapoo

[JacksonVirgo]

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

They're a player that is anti-town to it's core. They hammer any E-1 regardless of alignment and never takes games seriously, at least as far as I know.

He's grown as a player if you ask me. His recent games for example shelly's mini, I found it quite enjoyable to have him there

Didn't I yeet myself out of the game early on? I don't really remember Not_Mafia doing much and I recall replacing out.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don’t usually skim when I’m catching up, I usually grab my ISO to my last post and go from there. One question was aimed directly at me and the other isn’t a unique question to a blind vote

[JacksonVirgo]

@Mark

, what's your read on Noraa at the moment?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm taking it as RVS and someone who is prodging without reading.

I was as well but I wanted the clarificiation

[JacksonVirgo]

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

Nah I liked his reply and now TR him. If he starts being scummy again tho, my walls of evidence will come strolling in in some tall high heels like clickety clack clack.

Show us what lists you thought they were shading and why you think they’re not anymore. I’m not allowing easy retractions this game

[JacksonVirgo]

Lemme try that again lol

*AHEM*

Alright after all that and a reread on Mark, im feeling better about mark even though it may not seem like it due to my last few posts. Overall, im liking the answers he's giving and yeah!

UNVOTE:

Give some examples on why you switched your read

[JacksonVirgo]

cko is special cuz their town meta matches up with votes not always making sense.

And yet I’ve been right in majority of my games

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa is 99% sure Flea is scum but vote:Mark

Yeah I remember calling that out earlier but without the voting mark bit

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa is 99% sure Flea is scum but vote:Mark

you've literally shaded almost everyone in this plist by now

and its literally page 7 :/

Why are you so obsessed with page numbers

[JacksonVirgo]

Lol jacko why are you only talking to me itt?
maybe uh .... spread ur attention evenly rather than hyperfocus on me.

There are certain things that sometimes are just gut and not explainable. In time, they will become words.

I’m commenting on posts I feel the need to comment on, I’m not replying to other posts since I’m on mobile and I can’t wait to finish catching up since I hate it lol

[JacksonVirgo]

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

[JacksonVirgo]

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

Yah i dont think I'm actually God of mafia and found 3 wolves in day 1. But those slots need to get sorted.

Horsewoman is obvscum! I'd yeet her first.

I wouldn't say you were a God of Mafia if they actually were as obviously many have come to the same conclusion, although considering we both independently landed on the same scum-reads, I don't think they're as accurate as we see from face-value and I would bet some mo=ney that at least one of the three is scum-pushed in some form. If I had to say right off my head I would say that Llama and Horse are probably not scum together but I would think at least one would be from what we have right now. Noraa being scum doesn't really affect Llama/Horse being Mafia I don't think, I'll have a look back on interactions after flips happen if they seem necessary.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think your read on Nora is off though

Can you explain how it's off and who's exact read on Noraa is off?

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't agree with HW's but it looks like it comes from town.

holy fuck what is your joindate is that real?

Kinda hard to fake it if it was lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

[JacksonVirgo]

That being said I do think Horse is scummy, I am not saying they aren't, I just think that specific piece of logic is wrong.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: jackson

Fancy explaining your train of thought?

mark's vote was a "poke" vote,, that's fine, the way jackson jumped on it, took it seriously felt bad, imo, excited, imo
jackson's weird, apparently, can't make up my mind

reading still

You've got a seriously warped vision of the current game-state.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think your read on Nora is off though

Why?

Its to my understanding that Nora is a cutesy overly excited kind of player... Like a puppy but in this game it doesn't seem over the top, and it feels like there's a level of focus and seriousness there. It's almost like she needs to actually some thinking in the game, and not make plays to redirect town votes, and plays, and cause havic.

There is something happening to cause this subtle shift in play at a subconscious level and it's that thing at that level that gives me my read on her

Oh that's interesting

[JacksonVirgo]

I MEAN IF YOU WOULD JUST LET ME POST IT, IT DOESN'T EVEN CONCERN YOU

Please calm down I'm trying to solve

[JacksonVirgo]

jackson,, disagree with everything, or at least understand little, but enthusiasm is town

kbai

p-edit: excuse me, what!!

What do you mean? Are you saying that I am disagreeing with everything but understanding little? I'm not really fully understanding your posts oof :c

[JacksonVirgo]

I agree with that, but while avoiding her she undermines her ability as a player

What's this a reply to?

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh I think I understand, you say I disagree with everything you say but maybe undertstand very little of what you're saying? That's probably it yeah,

[JacksonVirgo]

No? Damn I have no idea then duder sorry

[JacksonVirgo]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

[JacksonVirgo]

Mark is pretty similar to their recent town-games with me and they've been solving/mind-melding with me so I am confident enough to TR them as I have been, although I haven't seen any of their scum-games so I could be falling into a trap.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think I just caught Noraa out in a lie. Context pending

[JacksonVirgo]

cko is special cuz their town meta matches up with votes not always making sense.

And yet I’ve been right in majority of my games

I agree with this to a certain extent. you have pretty good reads in Cakes large normal

This specific post, it's probably not AI but I feel it has to be at least somewhat. I just checked SirCakez Large Normal, and what she said is incorrect and I don't recall any other game with Noraa specifically in it that I had what they would call "pretty good reads" as I've replaced out of them in nearly all cases and the one I didn't I had wrong reads as it was early D1.

In the Large Normal they were referring to, I replaced out early D1. My reads were not anywhere near "pretty good" as the only scum I had "read" was Glitch, and I had them as a town-read. Noraa is either thinking of another game, which I want them to clarify immediately, or they're trying to pocket me.

Again, this isn't AI in itself if Noraa can back up her mistake otherwise I think it's a slip.

[JacksonVirgo]

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
JacksonVirgo
Guillotina
Marky Mark
Horsewoman
Flea the Magician

NULL

AGamblingPig
Nono
Momrangal

SCUM

Toogeloo
Noraa
LlamaMama
no elim

I don't remember much about Toogelo and no elim can you explain why you think they're scum? Also are you assuming 4 scum or just that they are your scum reads regardless of amount of scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

I think Guillotine is Town this game but they're a lot less jokish than I remember early game in the Cakez game.

[JacksonVirgo]

Jacko, you really think I take a game where you have trash reads and just be like EY THEY ARE GOOD. I don't understand why you find this strange. Honestly, lets say I was scum. Wouldn't I just be 10x more careful making sure that everything matches up perfectly? Like ... bruh.
You repped out day 1, yes. but all of ur TRs were correct. If I remember correctly, ur only wrong read was the SR on Nero.

I don't like WIFOM defences like the one you just made and that was far from "pretty good reads", but alright it's not like I can make much else on that.

[JacksonVirgo]

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

[JacksonVirgo]

Welcome to the Marky Mark entourage guys :3

We must protecc

[JacksonVirgo]

I am also quite frankly loving that Noraa went to the effort of making a wall out of my ISO. The Marky Mark entourage has another member methinks - perhaps we should start calling you lot the Funky Bunch?

For real though, 0-contex quoting my votes doesn't really help me understand why you think they are shading rather than SRing. I more than happy to chat through individual posts with you, if you want to actually articulate what it is about them that makes them shade, rather than scumhunting

Oh wait, that was what the quotes were for I kinda just ignored it thinking it was Noraa lmfaoooo.

Also yes Funky Bunch is a great name

[JacksonVirgo]

Arguing over semantics is a classic scum play

This isn't shade, this is calling out a scum-tell.

You have an uncanny familiarity with mafia jargon for a new user in their first game onsite. Hmmm

This is a little shade I must agree although this type of shade doesn't come from scum more than town.

Trying to look like you are getting the game to progress while expecting others to do it for you however...

This is exactly the read on them at the time, and my read on them currently this isn't shade.

Your other posts are ++TR but asking for meta on pg4 strikes me as a bit forced - particularly as this is nothing something I recall you doing in our 2 previous games together where you were town

This is an actual based read and not shade at all, sure it's not anything that holds any weight but isn't shade it shows they're trying to solve everyone.

I am also enjoying how JV follows up on my vote but your are SRing me and TRing him. Go figure lol.

This is just calling out inconsistancies in an argument

This serious or no? If serious then why? If no, then why are you still trying to push RVS when the game is starting to emerge from that?

This isn't shade, it's calling someone out for prolonging RVS

TL;DR - JV has either
a.) skimmed and not seen me already posting those points
b.) Is operating perfectly in synch with me or
c.) is trying to pocket me

Imagine a scenario where I am making very similar posts to your own, would you just think we're mindmelding or if you're trying to solve would you maybe think I am pocketing you? It isn't shade, and is actually again telling that they're trying to solve everybody not just those that are scummy.

Feels like between this and the meta tell on Flea, Noraa has been avoiding answering questions so far. Why the cold shoulder Noraa?

This is calling you out for not answering stuff, not shade in and of itself.

I mean yeah, but the logic of trying to take credit for progressing the game through making a dubious post that others then picked apart is stretching it a bit lol

Not shade, the main reason I am SRing horse unless you want to say I'm shading them too?

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

Explain how this is shade?

[JacksonVirgo]

you guys may not like my game but you'll just have to grin and bear it.

owo

[JacksonVirgo]

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

What community are you from? I tend to FPS a lot in my home site but not much here as I use this sight to focus on my scum-hunting or deception skills.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm from the Town of Salem Forums, this is a giant ass change of pace and I like games here much more.

[JacksonVirgo]

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

Noraa town reads Flea now.

Oh?

[JacksonVirgo]

I've lowkey forgotten about this game as I've been working on developing a [REDACTED] tool to help in hosting games.

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Just because they're new to the site doesn't mean we don't try our hardest to solve the game.

[JacksonVirgo]

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Is your reads that weak that you can be swayed just because the majority disagree with your read? Or is it that you don't want to look too out there as you have an image to uphold? Yes that was shade so instead of doing whatever you're doing explain why you town-read them and why any of the cases we have on them are incorrect or unbased.

[JacksonVirgo]

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

Why did you answer a question that wasn't even a question?

[JacksonVirgo]

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like why bother stating the obvious assumption being drawn here when we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey?

I don't really get the use of unvoting a replacement, if you're thinking the slot is scum like you do, why do you think a vote there is useless when it is far from it.

Also mindmeld about the last bit.

[JacksonVirgo]

Because I wanted to.

My reads dropped a little for Gill but not by too much.

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

[JacksonVirgo]

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

This pings me as somewhat LAMIST

[JacksonVirgo]

Mark somehow you double posted twice lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Please use fae/faer or they/them pronouns for me please

Who was this aimed at? Sorry if it was me :C

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm a little sad i missed the shit post portion of the game.

Don't worry, there's shitpost all over me

[JacksonVirgo]

I claim everyone

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

Shading is not AI on its own, also I don't really care if you like the word or if you intend it or not it's still shade.

[JacksonVirgo]

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

I see what you're seeing now but I'm not too sure if that's them slipping partners.

[JacksonVirgo]

I accidentally deleted this post -Isis

Paraphrase:

/in, if I'm allowed. I'm new to the site.

Hi, I'm new! And very cool and good at everything

31. Greetings! New user here to play mafia (whenever a game fills lol) but these funny forum games are always ok.

That is accurate lol. I just stated i was new & would like to join that game.

From assorted places

[JacksonVirgo]

Eeeeh shading comes from either scum or toxic town people. It was not a shade, it was part of the progression in the conversation. If you just picked up that post without the rest of the context it would look like shading, just like Noraa who posted a whole wall of Marky quotes without context and called him out on doung shading, i think you also called out Noraa on that no? (Real question)

I think you've got a different definition of shading than I do which is fine although Mark himself has shaded a small bit earlier in the game does that mean they're toxic town or scum? fyi I just read the context of that post and you essentially pulled that out on the spot, I don't personally see the reasonings of why that wouldn't be shade from your definition. Also difference here between Noraa calling out shade and myself is that I actually asked you to back up your read with quotes, which you refused to do at first.

[JacksonVirgo]

I could also be reading the game wrong as it's 1am, if you disagree further feel free to quote and point out why I am wrong.

[JacksonVirgo]

@guil How do you know Jackson and nora have only played two games together? I cant find that quote.

Where did they say this?

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually your definitions of shading would help me a lot.

My definition of shading is the act of discrediting someone in bad faith while putting themselves in a position of no compromise towards the discrediting.

Trivializing, devaluation, gaslighting, half tones of suspicion are various examples of shading to me.

This is similar to my own definition, discrediting someone or someones cases to put themselves in a better position than the attackee although shading on it's own is not AI and it sometimes comes naturally as a form of "attacking" scum. The context matters

[JacksonVirgo]

so its weird to see several players fixating on that once piece of evidence rather than the slot more broadly.

agree. everyone is tunneling in one this one thing so much that I think she's probs just town for all the attention.

This is generally a bad way to read someone as Town as it's not reliable, at least in my experience.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm caught up, I skimmed alot tho. Will iso as needed.

If you skimmed a lot.

How did you come up with a full read list?

I don't want to jump to conclusions but it could be them pushing a scum agenda, I would have to check their reads compared to llama's. Actually tbh I don't even remember seeing a read list from Vax

[JacksonVirgo]

They didn't provide a read list at all.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Momrangal

why not

VOTE: DGB

explain your vote pls.

I still think Guillo is the scummiest tho jus saying.

Why are people using votes like this. Saying that Gill is scummier defeats the original purpose of voting DGB.

[JacksonVirgo]

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

When you really wanna punch someone in the face cuz their obnoxious as hell, it generally is a town tell I won't lie.
I probs should be reassessing my read on guillo cuz he's so damn annoying :/

Although I hate the way you worded this, I like this read but I'm not sure if it comes from scum wanting to get out of a pickle or Town actively reading them.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why are people using votes like this. Saying that Gill is scummier defeats the original purpose of voting DGB.

I just want an answer from DGB.

It looks like either you are wasting your vote or you're preparing yourself for a quick retraction

[JacksonVirgo]

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Is your reads that weak that you can be swayed just because the majority disagree with your read? Or is it that you don't want to look too out there as you have an image to uphold? Yes that was shade so instead of doing whatever you're doing explain why you town-read them and why any of the cases we have on them are incorrect or unbased.

Multiple times I have been the one townie that didn't realize someone was scum on day 1 when apparently it was blatantly obvious.
I can link plenty of games that fit this description and they are the reason that consensus can definitely shift my reads.

Half the cases tunneled on her saying she's new are my problem. Other cases that assess her as a whole I believe are alright but shitty tunnels over one post she made are crap.

Self-meta isn't my strawberry pie

[JacksonVirgo]

Why are people using votes like this. Saying that Gill is scummier defeats the original purpose of voting DGB.

I just want an answer from DGB.

It looks like either you are wasting your vote or you're preparing yourself for a quick retraction

Not really but if it makes you feel better or something, VOTE: Guillo
DGB, I still want the answer.

The point is to say that I want an answer and DGB is a very possible vote candidate. I could swap DGB in for Guillo if DGB ever starts obvscumming.
My preference atm is Guillo but DGB can easily change that.

Did you not literally just say they're probably Town?

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa also I am aware that you've been getting heat in a bunch of [redacted]. I mean no harm I am trying to solve don't think I hate you or anything lol

[JacksonVirgo]

Noraa got way more agressive ever since i posted that she could be w/w with marky.

Putting this down for ISO purposes

You suggested I was scum with horsewoman. Did you forget this fast or were your reads fake from the beginning?

No they suggested you and mark as well in 509

[JacksonVirgo]

Not stopping till I get all claims!

I claim town potato.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JacksonVirgo]

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
JacksonVirgo
Guillotina
Marky Mark
Horsewoman
Flea the Magician

NULL

AGamblingPig
Nono
Momrangal

SCUM

Toogeloo
Noraa
LlamaMama
no elim

Lol this looks like the activity list with nora's name moved to scum.

good observation.
+scum points for DGB.

Noraa can you explain why reads lined up with the activity list is scummy. Not wrong, scummy.

[JacksonVirgo]

Eeeeh shading comes from either scum or toxic town people.

you just called about every single person here one of those then cuz im about 99% sure everyone's shaded in some way or another by now.

this is entirely inaccurate btw.

I respect your opinion but i disagree.

For what it's worth I agree with Noraa here

[JacksonVirgo]

I can do a lot of things. Sleep is not one of them.

Although I am gonna try now, night

[JacksonVirgo]

You just quoted it... POST 442

That's Horsewoman and noraa, not myself.

[JacksonVirgo]

Hmmm. ok it does not say played 2 games together, but its still says guil knows jackson virgo has played 2 games so far. Where is this from?

Eh, I thought this was something but it's probably nothing.

@jacksonvirgo, im assuming you have played more than 2 completed games?

Regardless of them not actually saying that about me specifically, I've completed many more than 2 games. Check my signature for a link to my FM history (in a nifty spreadsheet :O )

[JacksonVirgo]

Slaps face.

I was missreading the 2 games comment. It wasn't about jackson, it as about horsewoman

I am lowkey glad you found this yourself and not somebody else that called you out

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh hey mark

[JacksonVirgo]

I've just woken up about 20 minutes ago, I'm off to work so I can't really post too much right now but await my world ending responses owo

[JacksonVirgo]

TSTBC = scum

Too stupid to be cool = scum

I translated

[JacksonVirgo]

I read up to page 20 while waiting to be replaced and here's what I wrote so far. I'll finish explaining and reading tomorrow.

{mark, jv}
{guillotina}
{DGB, nono, horse}
{agp, toog, flea}
{llama}
{noraa, marangal}

Mark and JV are being their usual obvtown selves.

Guillotina has a lot of towny conviction and initiative, and he looks like he's really trying to sort horse. I'd be impressed if he's scum.

DGB is a lean town mostly because I've agreed with most of its takes and it has a towny tone. It does seem to have reads decently close to consensus (with the exception of horse) and is generally very comfortable in this game, so could see it being scum who is happy with how things are going.

The way horse got frustrated with guillo's push on her read quite towny to me, and she seemed happy to provide reads when asked about it to get away from the stupid "hi I'm new" conversation, whereas scum wouldn't be as eager to provide reads.

Take the noraa read with a grain of salt because I can't really read her, but her posts have felt a bit LAMIST-y and she doesn't have the laid-back approach or flashes of insight I expect from town!her. Also unfortunately, it doesn't feel like she's enjoying this game as much as she usually does and I know she likes town more than scum.

Howdy infinity, bending gang back at it again.

Could you explain the read on Mark and myself, last time you pocketed me hard as scum and I’m super wary of it.

[JacksonVirgo]

I find it hard to post in a car so I’ll post soon, I’ve read that there was a premature masonry claim though

[JacksonVirgo]

She's pretty much scumreading a bunch of inactives and townreading the players who are doing anything (this was already pointed out by vaxkiller). And posts like 481 are in my opinion, really terrible.

481 - link your goddamn posts.

[JacksonVirgo]

I dont love DGB either. Look at this reads list.

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
JacksonVirgo
Guillotina
Marky Mark
Horsewoman
Flea the Magician

NULL

AGamblingPig
Nono
Momrangal

SCUM

Toogeloo
Noraa
LlamaMama
no elim

She's pretty much scumreading a bunch of inactives and townreading the players who are doing anything (this was already pointed out by vaxkiller). And posts like 481 are in my opinion, really terrible.

So you're saying Mark/DGB are in your scum pool?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm a mason hahahaha

Question, why would you out being a mason so quickly when it's much more beneficial to keep that claim back until a more strategical moment or at E-1 not when you're only just getting heat.

[JacksonVirgo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: momrangal

You vote an actual masonry claim?

[JacksonVirgo]

How would it affect your noraa read if I told you that she definitely focuses/plays serious as scum?

That reminds me,
@guillo: How would it affect your read on mark if I told you he got limmed d1 in his only scum game on site?

I would tell you what I've told everyone here already. I don't believe in meta.

I believe and judge based on actions in this game.

Also, I townread Momrangal and she claimed Mason. I'm not voting there.

Momrangal if she claimed mason I 99.99999999% believe it based on my past meta with her.

I’d stake my life that she’s a mason and we should elim horsewoman

Can you find what games they were mason for me

[JacksonVirgo]

If we have a vigilante, I recommend shooting in the low-posters to clear the null-tier. The scummy players and the townie players sort themselves out more or less where I've seen null tier stay null and loses us the game.

[JacksonVirgo]

Could you explain the read on Mark and myself, last time you pocketed me hard as scum and I’m super wary of it.

It might be easier to try to exit my scumrange in other ways. My read on you two is gut + I mindmelded with a few of your posts + towny initiative

Exit your scumrange?

[JacksonVirgo]

I find it hard to post in a car so I’ll post soon, I’ve read that there was a premature masonry claim though

Correct mom claimed mason. G pointed it out and I know her and that it’s probably not fake.

Mason partner likely is going to hide it or not claim as horse should 100% be the wagon to avoid outing them if scum haven’t already figured out who is their natural ranger as a mason partner.

Why are you pointing out how to catch a possible another Mason.

[JacksonVirgo]

Could you explain the read on Mark and myself, last time you pocketed me hard as scum and I’m super wary of it.

It might be easier to try to exit my scumrange in other ways. My read on you two is gut + I mindmelded with a few of your posts + towny initiative

Exit your scumrange?

Yeah like, do things I couldn't do as scum

I don't really know your scum-range so I can't really do this, all I know is that generalized tone, progression and self-imaging is something you can moderately control.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: infinity

Care to explain this vote?

[JacksonVirgo]

You seriously expect me to sheep your reads when 1) they counter my own and 2) you give absolutely no reasonings at all.

[JacksonVirgo]

I do town-read infinity as they remind me of bending, I'm sure if they wanted to pocket me again I would see it effectively knowing that scum!them is capable of it.

[JacksonVirgo]

And I sure as hell don't town-read you

[JacksonVirgo]

Also I was talking to EVERYONE, not just you.

Your wording says otherwise but sure

pedit: What do you mean you don't see the pocketing

[JacksonVirgo]

How can I not be able to understand, I am well aware of opposing perspectives and I often try and see situations from all sorts of perspectives to remove as much personal bias as I personally can.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll have a re-read on Horse when I can but I generally tend to disagree with any case regarding "a lot of people are pushing this so it's scum pushed" unless there's a lot of other reasonings to not think they're scummy. Generally if a Mafia boi is acting scummy, their buddies will tend to bus just as much as they are to try and eliminate scummy town, at least from my experience.

[JacksonVirgo]

You said:

"What do you mean you don't see the pocketing"

I mean I can't explain something I cant see.

Ah I see, the pocketing I'm referring to was from another game.

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you town read nora?

I think Horsewoman/Noraa are very likely to have at least one scum between them, so in other words no I don't town-read Noraa.

[JacksonVirgo]

I did not see the connection between the 2, but I'll look now.

I'm speaking just purely from the interaction they both had, it did not scream TvT at all.

[JacksonVirgo]

I find it hard to post in a car so I’ll post soon, I’ve read that there was a premature masonry claim though

Correct mom claimed mason. G pointed it out and I know her and that it’s probably not fake.

Mason partner likely is going to hide it or not claim as horse should 100% be the wagon to avoid outing them if scum haven’t already figured out who is their natural ranger as a mason partner.

Why are you pointing out how to catch a possible another Mason.

...

Got some real osmium here.

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

What does having real osmium mean? It's an element from what I googled lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Google it’s properties and what it’s special for.

Are you saying I'm dense?

[JacksonVirgo]

I literally still have no idea what you mean lmfao, it's 1:20am give me some slack for my lack of working braincells.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: nora

Why do you vote Nora over horsewoman here?

I'm going to hold back my own response to this until after they respond

[JacksonVirgo]

Google it’s properties and what it’s special for.

Are you saying I'm dense?

Not that you are dense but you’re being dense but close enough.

And yes I was trying to call it out in a subtle manner.

I'm not being dense by calling you out for literally outting a way to find a second mason. It was not necessary and actually somewhat irrelevant the point you were trying to make.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll have a re-read on Horse when I can but I generally tend to disagree with any case regarding "a lot of people are pushing this so it's scum pushed" unless there's a lot of other reasonings to not think they're scummy. Generally if a Mafia boi is acting scummy, their buddies will tend to bus just as much as they are to try and eliminate scummy town, at least from my experience.

This is false.

Scum bus when they get something out of it or it is inevitable. They don’t bus because someone is acting scummy town generally do that on their own. I have had really good scum games before. This may be how you play scum but a good scum doesn’t do that.

Good scum =/= scum in general. There's a fine line, and I've seen scum bus so often from very little it isn't funny. Most of my scum games were from my home-site and my buddies literally threw everyone under the bus nearly every game I was in and when I was town this was no different, on this site I do not remember specifics though but overall this type of read doesn't really throw my reads away.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: nora

Why do you vote Nora over horsewoman here?

I think horsewoman is town. I think everyone keeps going back to that wagon and conf biasing it to confirm it.

@math

Nora and Jackson Virgo's chummyness concerns me. Jackson Virgo and nora talk at LENGTH, but he doesn't town read them? I actually think they both are scum.

Noraa's my friend outside of games owo

[JacksonVirgo]

Please stop trying to force your site’s meta here.

The VCA is very clear on this. Horse is scum or there is a deep wolf because of how many votes people have gotten prior.
Horse despite being popular again as an elim with a new set of people on her the old ones don’t want to pop back on.

Horse is almost certainly scum because of what I did before combined with how protown scum could look by elimming Horse if she was town. Scum not taking that means Horse is likely scum.

I'm not forcing any meta here, I am simply saying I don't PERSONALLY see that read as effective and thus won't be using it unless you prove me wrong.

[JacksonVirgo]

I still am holding onto my Horse/Vax/Noraa scum-read. I'm not fully sure if I've actually explicitly said that was my scum solve aorn assuming three mafia.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think I have 3 for 3 but I am fairly confident that at least one of the three are scum. Likely two, with Noraa/Horse not being partners if they aren't all three.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am about Horse > Vax > Noraa

[JacksonVirgo]

I still am holding onto my Horse/Vax/Noraa scum-read. I'm not fully sure if I've actually explicitly said that was my scum solve aorn assuming three mafia.

ewww

It kinda feels like he’s either really dense town or one of my scumreads is wrong before and he’s trying to do anything possible to avoid voting horse.

Don’t know which.

Either way he’s making me question my reads hard.

1) I tend to be dense as a player yeah, but generally because I tend to be right when I stick to my guns. For example, recent mini normal where I deathtunneled scum and didn't let anyone stop me until I got burned out and they turned out to be scum.

2) Is that aimed at me I am not sure because aren't I voting horse? Also I'm a they if that is aimed at me.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm a mason hahahaha

Question, why would you out being a mason so quickly when it's much more beneficial to keep that claim back until a more strategical moment or at E-1 not when you're only just getting heat.

It was late, baby was fussy, I was heading to bed and I didnt trust town to not quick lynch, I mean....
And as far as Nora goes, she was never a comfort wagon. She was never a joke wagon, she was never a vanity wagon. She was the first serious push in the game and there was as a consensus of her being likely scum yet it stalled out early and weird as hell CW wagons took place, both of which moved much faster than hers

Yeah alright that's fair enough but I'll get to the Noraa read tomorrow

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't *usually* like self-meta but in this case it's better than making you fall down a rabbit hole like a lot of people eventually do. I am sure Mark and Infinity can back me up as well, also you can easily go check the game. I mean any recent town-game you can choose of mine, but Bending has players that are playing here so it'd be easier to communicate what I'm meaning.

I'm gonna try and sleep probably.

[JacksonVirgo]

Assuming Horse town then I know I am town and am reasonably certain Mom is so the scum team would have to be all JV G and Toog and I don’t see that as a viable team especially since I townread G.

This is also taking the assumption that all scum are on Horse if they're Town which is a stretch.

[JacksonVirgo]

Assuming Horse town then I know I am town and am reasonably certain Mom is so the scum team would have to be all JV G and Toog and I don’t see that as a viable team especially since I townread G.

This is also taking the assumption that all scum are on Horse if they're Town which is a stretch.

I agree. My point is it’s a stretch. Vax posited that scum were on Horse.

I disagreed with that suggestion and was explaining so to Vax.

Oh my bad

[JacksonVirgo]

Assuming Horse town then I know I am town and am reasonably certain Mom is so the scum team would have to be all JV G and Toog and I don’t see that as a viable team especially since I townread G.

This is also taking the assumption that all scum are on Horse if they're Town which is a stretch.

Not really, in one of my games as scum at MU we all voted to yeet the same player on D1 exactly for that, because nobody would believe that all scum would be on that wagon.

It paid off, we won that game because wagonomic experts concluded we couldn't possibly be so dumb to do that.

That's a hilarious story, but it's not that common

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait

[JacksonVirgo]

-snipe-

[JacksonVirgo]

All I wanted was to steal a pagetop before sleeping owo

[JacksonVirgo]

It seems a lot has happened since I was gone

[JacksonVirgo]

Let’s just say that the game looked to be miseliming a mason claim I believe. So I did what I had to do to stop it.

The mason claim was never going to be limmed (hammering would be a scumclaim) so this worry isn't real but the ego feels towny.

You didn't believe it was a real claim and you were voting her. Of course the worry could be real.

Hammering with 4 days left in the day phase is kinda a scumclaim imo

Nobody actually ever follows up with these types of reads.

[JacksonVirgo]

Nobody actually ever follows up with these types of reads.

I mean not really this was an exaggeration but it's not as much of a scum-claim than it is just anti-town and scummy.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: noraa I don’t think you approach reads like this as town. Math does unfortunately.

Can you explain this Noraa read for me? I understand at it's core but I am not sure I am following exactly

[JacksonVirgo]

She's pretty much scumreading a bunch of inactives and townreading the players who are doing anything (this was already pointed out by vaxkiller). And posts like 481 are in my opinion, really terrible.

481 - link your goddamn posts.

PFFFFT jacko's face atm be like : -_______________________________________________________________-********

How did you take a photo of me!?

[JacksonVirgo]

If we have a vigilante, I recommend shooting in the low-posters to clear the null-tier. The scummy players and the townie players sort themselves out more or less where I've seen null tier stay null and loses us the game.

Vig should shoot either Toog, Infinity, or DGB.

Not infinity. And that's too narrow a pool for a hypothetical vig to shoot in.

[JacksonVirgo]

If we have a vigilante, I recommend shooting in the low-posters to clear the null-tier. The scummy players and the townie players sort themselves out more or less where I've seen null tier stay null and loses us the game.

Vig should shoot either Toog, Infinity, or DGB.

I just fully clicked with what you said here and I am going to say this as blunt as I possibly can. Vigilante's shooting within scummy players effectively wastes town utility considering they're essentially a secondary elimination. Scummy and Townie players are much more likely to sort themselves given Town's default utility with day eliminations, null players however getting sorted through the night is a much more effective use of a vigilante.

[JacksonVirgo]

I take it back. I think the team is Infinity/DGB/Guillo

I pick you as scum over G every time

I town read you both but that’s a really bad take. (Except if horse is town you’re probably scum)

If horse

is

town who would be your PoE for scum that's as skilled as Noraa. And who would be your PoE overall.

[JacksonVirgo]

That’s NAI Nora.

Good players town and scum poke everywhere. You’d scumread me every game for that. This is just a unique situation where scum is likely present in Horsewoman.

I believe it is AI for newbies. Newbtown is much more likely to tunnel whereas newbscum is more likely to poke around and try to find a soft spot.

Horse isn't new to FM, so if you think this is a defence against scum!horse it's not.

[JacksonVirgo]

Unless of course I misread the context and it wasn't aimed at Horse

[JacksonVirgo]

No one

No

[JacksonVirgo]

remembered wrong. that's right. Who TRs infinity?

No one. Exactly. Infinity why are you using what I said earlier in the game against me?
Nearly all the plist SRed horse which made me doubt myself and here ur trying to discredit my reads by using that against me?

I town-read infinity, you're discrediting them.

[JacksonVirgo]

*Yeets nora a sandwich to munch while reading this.*

Spoiler: OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Alright let's drop the act for this one, it's clear to me that anything less blunt and to the point commentary is going to be considered by our sharpened steel friend here.

My name is not Joseph! How dare you!

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

Guillotina!!!! Ooooweeee

Yaaaah! I'm here to lighten your days yo!

Make your days grand while killing scum!

Which given these have a nice and chill vibe to them amuses me greatly.

Hi I'm new go easy

VOTE: DGB sure

New to the forum right?

MINE

Yah, new to the forum.

VOTE: No Elim. But not like the user no elim, like a vote to not elim

VOTE: No elim

Ok

{. Are you new to the forum or pretending to be new to the forum?

very sad! low energy! lame!

This denotes excitement, wants to get the game going. Horsewoman, it's a 10-day Day phase game.

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

You were bored and you are probably used to fast games.

To some extent, sure. It wasn't entirely serious in tone because I rarely am.

Yah, you've been fucking around.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

Not necessarily

Now this is his 4th post, and the game has moved on to page 3, almost page 4.

This is fairly

sharp

shift in tone and seems to be setting up for a SR imo.

Alright, someone do the protown thing and create something dumb and artificial to get us out of RVS

I did want to drive the game forward but I didn't (and don't) have any reads this early so I hoped someone else would do it for me

This is the post of my main read, they're not even trying to post on interactions or anything. The game right now is on page 3, nobody would really have any solid reads at all but it doesn't mean we all just give up and let other's do everything. I first read this as a joke post as I've said, which is why I brushed off Marks read but then when they made that second post I quoted said that it was at least semi-serious and that's plain anti-town behaviour and I'm not going to let that slip regardless if they're Town acting anti-town.

Trying to get the game to progress out of RVS/apathy stage is absolutely a pro-town mindset

And then when I called it out for being anti-town behaviour they flipped the wording to make them look like they're actively trying to push the game out of RVS and solve and in extension discredit my case, they're blatantly trying to sap the town-cred from RVS. This is just straight scummy behaviour, what Town would twist the wording in this situation for their own self-gain.

Two questions, 1) do you think HW gave up and let others do everything?

2) In your experience, do all town members behave and act upon posts the same?

Testing the waters maybe? I'm probably stretching here but this is what it feels like to me at the moment.

Of course not, some prime examples of anti-town behaviour include

Not_Mafia, Not_Mafia and Not_Mafia.

Is this an reference I'm supposed to understand? I'm also new here so I didn't get it.

Me too! Hey look you made a fluff post with no point to it, what's the world coming to, hm?

Nice try at discrediting my way of game solving.

First, if the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere is because the content of it didn't. Thank you.
Two, my deep dive allowed me deduce that you attempted to noobtell and miserably failed.
Three, makes me wonder why you tried to noobtell? Either alignment do this, but why did you?

If the deep dive goes absolutely nowhere, then you're not doing it right, quite frankly. Your deep dive was a setup for something that hasn't quite panned out and is now making you look bad.

If you want to call people out for no-contenting, then at least provide some yourself. You can always provide content from nothing.

Ok well im now 99% sure I have soul read on Flea and I think they're scum. Maybe will explain why later. A bit cautious treading in this territory cuz last I SRed Flea, they were town. Gimme some time to think.

Have you explained why already?

You could just read yourself and see.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Now I like this one. "Hah you thought this point but not this point! Therefore you are scum, my dear!"

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

This ones also interesting. The context has been left out, potentially leaving it to be twisted for later deeds. It's a strictly out of game comment aimed at Nora when it comes to my personality beyond the game. You then take this moment to prod me on HW.

barely caring about other people's SRs on you(which is a newbscum tell that says they know the people SRing are right so they are avoiding)

Thinking about it, this feels like an inaccuracy - in my (limited) experience, newbscum tend to panic when people vote them rather than playing it cool like a more seasoned player. Not sure if you are stretching the truth to fit the facts here or have just had a different experience of playing with new players (entirely possible).

Btw - pagetop without even realising until I'd posted #oblivious #ImJustThatGood

This is inaccurate. NoobsScum will ignore and evade town that scum read them by instinct.

A noob town will panic because in their own perspective, they should be obvious town cause they are being honest, so when they get votes they panic because they dont understand it.

Not always. If we were children, maybe.

Also I'll have you know I'm just as fluffy in real life. My queer butt just wants to love, be loved and hug friendos!

And also I will protect those I consider within the boundaries of my inner circle with my life. A truly scary sight to witness a fight or flight instinct be controlled and wielded in such a manner with reckless disregard for all but whom I stand to protect.

But thankfully the world isn't that full of meanies so I don't have to do that ʕ灬￫ᴥ￩灬ʔ

AtE?

Flea, what do you think about Horsewoman so far?

Not at all, just reflecting on my mannerisms ^_^ I am the universal parent friendo

Horsey is sus, but nothing significant as of yet.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

This is setting up for later, it's almost like gut instinct isn't allowed and I'm not allowed have my read without justification.

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Why mention me specifically? This is part of a setup imo.

If there is nothing significant, why you sus her? Explain please.

Gut reads and overall tone. Nothing significant and nothing worth building a case on.

#212 is interesting though, what are you trying to achieve with this reads list?

Notes for my future self and my teammates, should I die, they can look into my ISO.

I love this.
It's stupidly NAI worded xD

Weird.

Show us where you thought Mark was shading people.

Nah I liked his reply and now TR him. If he starts being scummy again tho, my walls of evidence will come strolling in in some tall high heels like clickety clack clack.

Maybe i was wrong townreading you. This is not how town proceeds.

VOTE: Noraa

Evidence of shading or i'll park this vote.

OBEY ME OR I'M GOING TO JUST be kinda lazy... hm.

Town: JacksonViggo, Mark

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama, Noraa

This is about where I’m at as well although I don’t think all three of those are scum together, I think at least one is though if that makes sense.

Yah i dont think I'm actually God of mafia and found 3 wolves in day 1. But those slots need to get sorted.

Horsewoman is obvscum! I'd yeet her first.

Potential associative? This is an extreme shift though, that pressure vote just *poof* gone faster than a fart in the wind. The vote on Noraa is now serving no purpose.

OK fine I can't help myself OK? This is why I said its half and half

VOTE: horsewoman

Why?

Because she's obvscum, obviously. pfft. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was dumb. I wasnt trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also wasnt discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

Curious again, i never said you did discredit me for any of those things, but if it is in your mind, it's because it's true.

Curious how you fought the noobtell accusation but not the "attempt at discrediting me" one.

VOTE: Horsewoman

Yes, i was attempting to discredit your deep dive because it was

smart

. I

WAS

trying to discresit you as a person or your slot. I also

WAS

discrediting the deep dive because I thought you were onto me - the idea is

NOT

laughable.

In a couple of hours I will read the game properly and come to conclusions

This is what you are psychologically telling me.

I like these two posts...

Literally Guillotina putting words in mouth and trying to force something that I don't think is there.

This is an impressive Deathtunnel, shame about the execution though.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

LOOOK AT MEEEEE! I'M MR GUUUILLLLOTIIIIIINA!!!!
Attempt at putting pressure back on Noraa, which I sadly know won't work.
"You're obvscum! And I'mma vote yoooou! except you're not so amma vote Noraa instead because she won't OBEY." (✿˘艸˘✿)

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

And yet there's an actual post where I literally just OMGUS'd and I got the best interaction in this game yet from it

Did Noraa froze?

Horsewoman, Llama slot and Noraa is where I'll vote today.

JK, Mark. Whom you'd most likely vote to yeet here?

See this is where I think these constant read lists are a little butt bitey. It's entirely NAI but I find it amusing that these lists are being stuck to like rigidly. There's 3 options and 3 options only. There's no information on town leans and no effort to solve outside these lists IMO.

Helpful PC User EBWOP for him

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

That basis for lock-scumming Horse is kinda weak. Just because you SR them doesn't mean town!them would SR you back.

A town wouldn't be afraid to OMGUS me if my pushes on them seemed so aggressive. I was expecting her to woman up and say fuck you! And vote me, cause that's what I'd do. As town i wouldn't just ignore you and let you paint me as scum, if you are framing me, you are going down with me.

They aren't you, not everyone is the same.

Townie response.

Flea, are you town? Your ISO is more fluff than game solving as of now.

Two in one.
As I've said earlier, I'm fluffy af as a person.o(〃＾▽＾〃)o
My game policy is "I'm here for good time not for long time!"
You cut past the fluff I post, and you'll find content. You have to be willing to work for it, which to me at this point it's clear you're not and I get a frustrated vibe from you towards me because of all this. Partly why I've dropped most of the persona from this ISO so you can read it and not get pissed off I have quite a developed reads list at this point and have fewer nulls than you

Look inside and be afraid, of this impressive mess I've made. If you take a look now you will fiiiiiiiiind! I have done away with lies, done away with paradise, see whats going on inside my miiieeeeennnnnnnd mwahahaha

Has No Elim posted at all?

Just as a friendly pointer, there's the ISO sections which let you look at players in ISOlation, and there's the Activity overview on the bottom that lets you see how active players are and how long since they last posted

As a less friendly note... this be fluff

Ur town play is trash then if that's how you think. OMGUSing is something nearly every newbie does but thinking it is optimal play is pretty bad.

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

The irony.

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

Also, next time I would appreciate if you did take quotes out of context, that's a very scummy thing to do. Do not worry though, I will look into the original posts for context.

Oh, my god. You suck.
A term created by wolves to discredit town pushes... but you want people to OMGUS you...
It's not a bad thing to do, honestly. and for some play styles, it's optimal. I use it occasionally because it gives me information I can work with ¡¡¡( •̀ ᴗ •́ )و!!!
But then I'm a weird player

By the way, you don't get town points for OMGUSing me after I said why I think town would or should.

OMGUS is a term created by wolves to discredit town hunches on votes against them.

you just called urself scum lol.

Nice try! I did,'t create the term dummy. It's been on existence since way before you started playing this.

See this is why I love Nora, Nora picks up on this shiz but doesn't call it out like I do.
Gulliotina coming in with the strawman defence.

Ok so

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Flea
Nono
DGB
no elim

Scum

Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig
Toogeloo

And now we have a full reads list. All nulls included.

I'll keep my vote on Noraa, but i'm willing to come to a consensus with the people I town read to vote for someone else, as long as that someone else is in my scum list.

I like this.

"You can work with me but I'll only work with you if its in my interests!"

Now Noraa, see this? This is shading!


Flea, would you rather if i negotiated for a yeet in my town read list? How about in my null list? And why?

Double contexter, I actually quite like the response to my shade and it's AI IMO.

To answer the question, town reads not at all, null reads, yes. Absolutely yes. Your nulls should be a main focus IMO. Those are slots you need to sort. Given I've been specifically placed in your null list that means I've done something worthy of your attention, meaning I should be sorted by now. You've at best been idlying playing with your scum reads at this point and I get a lazy cat vibe from you overall.

I can't not say I won't read fae not aligned with anti-town.

Faer fluffy.

I agree.

You went up to null, because you are either a smartass town or God Level WIFOM Mafia.

This is not a valid read to increase the read on someone.
You don't improve a read based on WIFOM drops or someone being a smartass. WIFOM is the weapon of the foul and low.

Town

Mark
JK
Momrangal

Null

Nono
DGB
no elim
Toogeloo

Scum

Flea
Noraa
Horsewoman
LlamaMama
AGamblingPig

Now we have some meat. Me and Toogs have swapped places. All I did was yeet some shade, and now I'm scum. Toogs was a smartass/WIFOM-bomber and moved up.
This progression is WEEEEERRRRIIIIIIDD!

These posts are going to be your downfall... Your progression on me feels a lil weird.ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

I’m aware i can be wrong and I’m willing to be proven wrong.

Do that instead of posting fluff after fluff. Help me townread you if you are town. If you are wolf, keep doing what you are doing, i love it!

Which is manifested here. Now my posts are fluff after fluff after fluff. That lazy cat vibe is back again. I know there's content in my posts, and so do others. You just have to effort it to find it.

It's then the "Help me help you!" line... of laziness. This is more refusal to do anything and condemning me because of how I play the game. It's another case of "OBEY ME OR ELSE (i'm just going to be lazy and just like.. fluff push you I guess?)".

Town: JacksonViggo, Nora

Null: Flea

Scum: Horsewoman, LlamaMama

For now

Confused why you would pick out Flea specifically as being null (as opposed to the other 9 players implicitly null by not being in your list)?

At the time i had no impressions about others. Only those names.

Flea gave me mixed feelings then, so null.

I still find it odd I was mentioned and looking at it, it looks like a setup for later to me.

Scum reads have to come from somewhere, and I'm not fond of people picking on low hanging fruit

Who is the LHF here?

+1

I've not quoted the follow up posts but its great to have guillotine on the same wavelength (

unless its a pocket

ofc )

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Horsewoman

Cheeky naked vote on consensus SR. Have some scumpoints.

Pig and Nono's 0-context votes seem sus to me, especially when we are getting beyond RVS

Both of these two were V/LA at the time of his push

Yeah, nah. Try harder please. Both dropped a no-context vote

prior

to going V/LA, when the game was getting well beyond RVS. This is a behaviour that is scummy, so I called it out. Would it have been better to ignore it?

Btw lol, I'm loving JV and Guillotine taking Noraa to task on their push on me, before I've replied. Welcome to the

Marky Mark entourage guy

s :3

First bold, if it is a pocket, it’s a town pocket so do not worry. Unless you are wolf, then you should worry as town do pocket wolves too.

Second bold, i know what you are implying here and I love it because that thought process could only come from town.

IIoA-ish. Also I'm glad you know what you meant with the second bold, because I don't.

Horsewoman raised several red flags before i said “definitely scum”.

Do you suggest i pace myself down though?

I'm not seeing them though, and not as being called out from you... You've been on HW since the start of the day with saying she's scummy.

@mark I understand. Still believe HW is scum and until she towns up, she is not getting out of my list.

PFFT. You keep repeating that yet ur vote's on me. LOL.

You got a point. I did say my vote would go to HW if you answered my questions about Mark's shading posts.

I'm a man of my word.

VOTE: Horsewoman

You are still in my scum list though.

I freaking love Nora, she is my kinda chaos - and this to me is one of the definitions of OMGUS, called out for something and bites back.

I said that i would be judging the game based on this game's actions. So any kind of meta is irrelevant to me including people's self meta.

This is worth noting because....

Flea - I wish you'd stop using so many spoiler tags. It makes it easy to miss the content of your posts, which are pretty good.

Early posting looks like honest scum hunting.

Town for now.

Toog - I'm fine with any votes for horse.

But the early serious vote smells of bussing.

Then again maybe I'm just paranoid.

First bold, what early posts from Flea looked like scum hunting? Maybe you are seeing something I'm not.

Second bold, do you really believe there is utility for scum to bus a teammate on D1, when it's really easy to try to do anything else but that? Have you played as scum before?

I think a lot of people are seeing things you're not and there's ALWAYS utility to bus. For someone who has just thrown meta out of the window, why are you interested if someones played a game as an alignment before? That is a form of meta.

Well for one, i purposely change my meta in every game, that way noone can reference meta about me and have to solve me base on the game im playing. Two, I was extremely arrogant and irresponsible in SirCakez game, i FPS, but I'm not ready to do that again in a community where I'm new at, so, you get standard focused Guillo in this one.

"I AM UNREEEEEEAAAAAADABLEEEE!!! BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH*coughcoughsplutter*
Sadly as someone who uses a persona to play this game and avoid meta, patterns will always emerge no matter how you try and play. Oh, and self-meta is here

Sorry nornor, that means your soul reads on me aren't on me but on the person and will probably always be wrong <3

Btw, my vote is gonna go here for a bit.
VOTE: Guillotina

You're voting away from your 99% soul-read on scum!flea again? Can you explain why you're doing that and why you're voting them when I think they're fairly townie + you give no reasonings here.

Noraa town reads Flea now.

IIoA. Not only that, it's putting words in her mouth. This looks like framing to me.

I do not TR horse any more cuz this many SRs on her is making me nervous of my ability to find scum but I will argue that the case on her isnt as good as maybe everyone thinks.

Help me see it. Do me a point by point of why I might be wrong about HW.

MEEEEOOOOOOWWWW!!!

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

So is this, honestly. Yes it's NAI and doing nothing in and of itself, however, it's still doing something. I'm not going to explain it to you though, you're a lazy butt.

Just because you cannot see something, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Noraa is either scum playing dumb or a Naive Town.

Non-commital and sitting on a fence. This right here, is a fluff post. I'll do a comparison after this.

I mean I'm pretty sure horse is new *to this site* but not new to mafia in general. isn't that misleading imo but I can see where the confusion comes from and why someone might misinterpret it as her trying to pull a newb card.

She specifically said " hi, I'm new! Go easy on me"

I made an entire wall about how that was more likely to come from scum

I mean if she's new to this site, she's not familiar with site meta and stuff like that. I find it not crazy to ask for people to go easy on her.

Yeah I just wanted you all not to call me names and stuff, I dont know anyone here is the thing.

Also sorry for not posting anything substantive in aaages, couple of bad mental health days. Sadly the streak will continue as I will be unable to post anything substantive for some hours now.

I'm gonna look like an asshole, but this sounds a lot like AtE. I hope you do get better but I still suspect this slot.

Yes, yes you do. If someone says their mental health is crap you don't throw it at them as AtE to get out of something. Anyone using that as an excuse honestly deserves to be in the bin.

I myself have several conditions that affect my ability to play as much as I would like and people have simply said "No worries, catch up when you can. If you're able are you able to answer these questions for me?"

We're good folk here <3

Evening all, today has just been very mental with work, so apologies for not being on. This will be a flying catchup post until I get a chance to sit down properly (hopefully tomorrow)

UNVOTE: - I'll give Llama's replacement a chance to catch up and psot their thoughts of the game state. The slot is scummy an I don't want to let it slip off the hook, but my vote there serves no purpose atm.

On a similar note - I can see that Pig's vote is on No Elim, who is also being replaced.
- @Pig: Who would be your next choice to vote aside from no elim's slot?

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Mafia

I just don't get this post - like

why bother

stating the obvious assumption being drawn here

when we can all see

what Momrangal was trying to convey?

Also, this did feel like shading. I don't believe you are an idiot if you are playing this game so I don't believe your question was a real one. Then you state that we can all see what Momrangal was trying to convey. Who is all? Did you ask each and every one of us to come to that conclusion?

For someone doing absolutely bare minimum themselves, this is a big ask.

I don't have much of a read on that slot, so vote and see.

Nah, I'm not voting outside my scum list, but!

We can scrutinize!

@Momrangal

You scumread Horsewoman and I agree.

Who else do you scum read? Who do you town read?
And more importantly, why?

GIT IN MAH POKIT!

I also wanna point out, theres been no reads lists recently.

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

Now this is revealing.

Care to share games where she's done this. It would be great if you can share a game where she was town and another one where she was mafia and she did this. Because then I could treat it as a behavior pattern rather than an AI.

Dude this is my second game of MS mafia and the first is ongoing.

I'm talking about the alleged "Outside of MS games". Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Damn I wish I could stretch this well...

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

Bro you talking like i was trying to hide my mafia experience (which was 72 hour day phases and really casual) but I immediately said I had experience when asked even though i easily could have pretended to be totally new as the forum i played on is now down and I didnt even use this username so nobody was catching me

Wrong, you can't say that you could have easily pretended to be totally new, when it only took two posts to catch you. Let's put it this way, you might be a seasoned player but you are a terrible liar, the problem here is, why you tried to lie to us?

this is beautiful, I think amma cry :')

You still think it's not crazy to ask to be treated like a noob when you have mafia experience?

This is my first game since 2018 and I played only a handful of games then. The site meta has changed drastically in those two years leaving me very unfamiliar with people, and the prevalent playstyles. Yet, it would be extremely odd if I asked to be taken easy on but if no one knew about that, no one would think twice about it and they would even have the urge (whether they know it or not) to take it easy on the perceived newbie.

There is only one alignment who would really want to be treated in that manner

This is a train of thought that I have seen many times that basically goes 'only mafia would care about being lynched/treated badly'. Completely wrong! Being mislynched sucks on an emotional level and it also hurts town on a game level! Town have a huge interest in not being lynched.

See this is what I'm talking about? You want us to town read you but you take posts out of context and AtE to try to get us to not push you, which makes me want to push you more. She is talking about, why would any of us would take it easy on you because you are new? Why would we believe that you are new? Why do we care that you are new or experienced? There are games for newbies here. You could have signed to one of those but you chose to sign up for a no-newbies game, which is fine! But don't expect preferential treatment.

Being myslynched sucks, but that is what towns are destined to be, some of us will have to die, so others can get info out of our deaths and solve the game. Don't take it personally, it is part of the game, don't act like it is not.

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

I will lose my mind, make it real this tiiiiime, to leave it all behind. I won't cry wolf.
Show me a sign, planets will align,
I'm gunna blow my mind. I won't, cry wolf.

Ok. Horsewoman is definitely scum. She votes Toogeloo for a naked vote instead of me for tunneling her?

She is afraid to cast that vote on me because she knows im town and im right.



Luckily for HW, Noraa will get my vote if she does not tell me what “shading” Mark did. Ts ts ts.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

i didn't vote for you because hardcore, ridiculous irrational tunneling usually comes from town, which is what you're doing.

Stop this! We are past that unless you want me to keep tunneling you. I asked you for reads on people, can you please provide them?

Would you kindly, obey? obey. OBEY. OBEY.

Saying "go easy on me" is expecting preferential treatment! Think about that hard.

If you stop engaging with my posts I will never townread you, i think it is in your best interest to convince me that you are town. I'm willing to move past your failed noob gimmick attempt and start over! There are many ways to find out if you are scum or not.

Look, town can lie too, there are many players here that yeet all liars no matter the reasons, I disagree. Town can lie for good reasons, for dumb reasons or just because the slot is a compulsive liar that randed town (not saying that any of these are you), I wanted to see why you tried to lie about that and see if such lie can come from a town slot.
I'm not convinced you are town. tbf.

I'm looking forward to your engagement! Bring me a pelt.

This is going beyond attacking the slot at this point.
Also, MEOW!

Oh I do have a question though, what is 'shading'? Seen people use that term like 10 times this game, no idea what it means. Is it just being sketchy/shady?

Shading is like putting someone on a bad light in bad faith. It's the act of de-valuating, gaslighting and trivializing other people.

You should read this: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/10-psychol ... -mafia/739

Disagree.
Shading is the act of throwing shade and suspicion on a slot and mocking some of the content.
Gaslighting is an abuse tactic.
Devaluing evidence and reads is standard play.
Trivialising people also shouldn't be done as it can drive people down and out. Trivialise the reads and motivations, not the people.

I think Toogeloo is scummy, I just don't know if it's scummy town or just scum. I'm looking closely there but you are right, it's hard to look when the slot is not creating content.

Marky Mark, i generally town lean, but his tone sometimes is... I don't know how to explain it other than, he is either town, or a townie scum. You know like there are scummy towns? Well there are also townie scums. My gut and my brain is fighting over on whether Mark is town or a townie scum.

Noraa, I tend to agree on that one, problem is that everything else from her is bad. Specially her sudden townread on Marky after accusing him of shading and scum reading him for it.

Flea, yah fae have this gimmicky careless approach right? Wonder if that is genuine or it is staged.

Both. Literally both. This ISO is dropping the persona aspect of me and yeah I'm still acting like an idiot

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

But you boosted your Toogs read based on a smartass comment I just want to be loved damnnit!

The thing is, DGBs post says a lot. that you're unable to put the work in and see says a lot.

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

HOW DAAAAARE YOU ASK ME, MR MITTENS, TO DO SOME WORK!

Now I'm gonna let go of your "noob" BS and work with you, help me townread you.

This pings me as somewhat LAMIST

That's because im open towning.

Debatable.

Like ultimately, when I push people I want them to respond and argue with me so that I can refine my read based on their responses

This is good to know because im the same. After all, people can fake an alignment but behavioral traits come out at a subconscious level, those cant be faked.

Good argument in favour of Meta really

"Hi! I'm new to this game! Plz go ez on me"

well this actually sounds dull upon reread.
lemme try saying that again with some more sarcasm.

"Hi! I'm new to this game as in I've never played a game with this mod, this setup, and this plist all in one! Plz go ez on me"

Yeah I get why its weird. I have seen horsewoman call herself new all over the site tho(outside of the mafia forum) so ......

@JacksonVirgo

Hey look the kitty brought us a dead spider

Noraa seems to know a great deal about you despite you've only played two games here. Are you sure you two are not wolf partners?

Can you back this up with quotes.

No, follow the conversation. The game is only 19 pages long. Or ISO me.

I'm not going to allow you to just shade someone for something you can't even be bothered to prove. Own your words

I dont like that word, i never intent to shade when im town. I scum hunt

Scum claim! xD

Spoiler: Conclusion!

Guillotina is scum without a doubt for me. the sheer number of contradictions, laziness and demanding behaviors lead me to lockscum this slot. There's been many posts since where he's incriminated himself by being lazy, demanding others do things while he does nothing, and requesting meta information while being anti-meta.

My intention with this ISO was to investigate and confirm a scumread, and honestly nothing can save this slot from my PoV at this time.

Spoiler: Bonus post! Fluff posting comparisons!

It may be genuine, it may be staged, either way it's easy to overlook the garnishes and read the player. So right now on page 19... I find nothing worrisome at all.

This tells me absolutely nothing.

Try reading o(≧∇≦o)

VOTE: Flea The Magician

You try contributing with quality content instead of fluff and smartass comments. How about that?

OK so, DGB has said here it has no problem reading me despite my fluffiness, and in 19 pages it's found nothing wrong with my posts.

You've obviously not read the post.

Now we come to where you've accused me of only posting fluff...

Half way through an ISO, have been distracted with a stardew game with my goblin and gremlin. Will finish later.

More fluff.

This isn't fluff. Fluff doesn't achieve anything, this says I'm doing something and have been distracted by my kids needing me. Yeah we played Stardew, I take mental health seriously.

Has No Elim posted at all?

This is both fluff and laziness, you're aware of the tools available to see if no elim had posted and you didn't use them, instead opting to ask someone else to do your work for you and looking like you're doing something.

I'm quoting this so I can come back to it once I've finished catching up, as holy fuck this is big.

[JacksonVirgo]

oh like tstbs except you've replaced the s's with ws for some reason

Some people like the werewolf theme a lot more, I tend to use both interchangeably as I play a lot of ONUW etc irl

[JacksonVirgo]

DGB kinda feels like it’s caught for the wrong reasons. The tone is really off in 1176

I can see that but nothing too serious imo

[JacksonVirgo]

1267 literally broke the sites formatting

[JacksonVirgo]

I can’t read the green. Can you tldr what your opinion was on Flavor Leaf?

Just change the forum theme temporarily? My forum skin is black.

I don't know what to say about Flea, they could just be too scummy to be scum, or they just are. The list had a very ill intended approach to discredit me and put me on a bad light. I'm not moving them out of my scum list for the time being. They get the Axe for now.

It’s a problem with my eyeballs

We need to converge G.

Oh are you colour blind?

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, Math, guillotine, Nora's aren't getting lynched today

I wouldn't think twice on a horse, infinity, toogers or mark but everyone other than 4 mentioned are fair game

Always stuck in second place. Sad

I am a sad little Mathy.

>:)

You're the first one to come last owo

[JacksonVirgo]

In extension though, are those your general order of reads or?

[JacksonVirgo]

MIN E

Brutal, I think Nero is dead now

[JacksonVirgo]

He's being very blatant about sheeping me, which I have noticed. I certainly don't think he would tie himself to me so clearly if we were both scum. Maybe he is and he's trying to pocket me or something. But I'm not sure.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but this is only my 4th game, what is sheeping?

Sheeping = blatantly following another person and/or recycling their arguments

Or it can be worded like. Someone is a Shephard, you follow their ass because they give you the food before they shave your wool for profit.

[JacksonVirgo]

Will Nero get a page top?


Find out next time in Yellowstone!

Nah fam, this is not pagetop season it's BEAR SEASON

[JacksonVirgo]

My god. so many posts. I'll catch up tomorrow. too lazy.

Lmfaooo nice

[JacksonVirgo]

Let's townread each other for the right reasons, i understand my sit in your town list is not guaranteed as neither is yours in mine.

What does this mean?

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait for it

[JacksonVirgo]

Will Nero get a page top?


Find out next time in Yellowstone!

Nah fam, this is not pagetop season it's BEAR SEASON

[JacksonVirgo]

Aww now I feel bad :c

[JacksonVirgo]

Nobody actually ever follows up with these types of reads.

I mean not really this was an exaggeration but it's not as much of a scum-claim than it is just anti-town and scummy.

I see what you're saying, but there's only certain players who could get away with it. If I lolhammered mara, people would be super suspicious since I don't do early hammers. Some players (not_mafia, dunn) do it as town sometimes so they can get away with it but most don't do it as town and don't risk doing it as scum as a result. That's why I think there was no real risk of a hammer.

It all depends on the situation of the game, not everything is black and white of what consequences a person would have over another in a given situation. Otherwise, it would be a puzzle game instead of a social deduction game. Though I agree there wasn't a real risk of a hammer.

VOTE: noraa I don’t think you approach reads like this as town. Math does unfortunately.

Can you explain this Noraa read for me? I understand at it's core but I am not sure I am following exactly

The logic of "you were trying to lim the mason claim" when I thought it was a joke is really shallow and I think noraa can have a lot more depth as town. Then I remembered haunted village where I feel like she didn't really get a good footing in the game and all her SRs were people that were pushing her. I thought she was scum there and she was town. The way she's played so far doesn't feel like she's trying to get townread, and when she says stuff like "idgaf you're still scum" it feels towny to me. So noraa is a lean town for me atm.

Oh so you're disagreeing with that initial read now?

If we have a vigilante, I recommend shooting in the low-posters to clear the null-tier. The scummy players and the townie players sort themselves out more or less where I've seen null tier stay null and loses us the game.

Vig should shoot either Toog, Infinity, or DGB.

I just fully clicked with what you said here and I am going to say this as blunt as I possibly can. Vigilante's shooting within scummy players effectively wastes town utility considering they're essentially a secondary elimination. Scummy and Townie players are much more likely to sort themselves given Town's default utility with day eliminations, null players however getting sorted through the night is a much more effective use of a vigilante.

I don't agree, I think the vig should shoot scummy players so it saves town an elim. Then we can re-evaluate null or towny players during the day phase.

I know it's hard to get a general wrap around my logic, someone introduced me to it not that long ago and since I clicked with it I really like that concept. Generally, null-reads are harder to solve than scum-reads. Why yeet two scum-reads via a lynch when you're just going to leave null-reads into F4 or F3 where scum can easily get an elimination on them if they're not the scum.

I town-read infinity

Why do you TR me again?

It's not a super duper TR like in the last micro game where you were wolf (prior to f3), I think your tone and content is townie and you haven't been super pockety like I recall you being in that micro compared to bending. You're a light town-read, more than a lean but less than full TR. I can of course make a town!case for you if you get pushed to the brink, which shouldn't happen today.

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante. I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

[JacksonVirgo]

post 1491[/url], JacksonVirgo"]Oh fuck that looks bad for me lmfaoo, I'm a N1 vigilante. I am not sure where the hell the mofia kill went. I would have assumed the scum was within Momrangal, Toogeloo, DGB so I shot within the trio. If it helps I also softed vigilante with my vig talks yesterday.

So you still reckon Mom may be scum despite the mason claim?

Hoooly fuck I legitimately forgot about that and I am so glad I did not shoot them

[JacksonVirgo]

RE: Missing nightkill

We need a massclaim.

I don't think that's necessarily needed?

[JacksonVirgo]

I've gotta get ready for work be back soon

[JacksonVirgo]

Yah im looking forward to see who agrees to a mass claim and put a red flag over their goddamn head.

I think we should mass-claim

In all seriousness though, if you think you have a reason to think

you

are the reason the NK got popped except via a protective which is the more likely case, maybe claim then but otherwise I don't think a mass-claim is good nor would outting a protective and their target (which would be almost confirmed town) after protecting a kill.

[JacksonVirgo]

@Math what do you mean targeted claims?

[JacksonVirgo]

@Math what do you mean targeted claims?

As in a certain player(s) claims but not everyone.

I've already said that I think if you have reason to think you know where the NK went, claim if it's not a protective role etc. I don't think anyone else should claim outside of that as chances are it's just a protective that saved the kill off of a top town-read.

[JacksonVirgo]

can someone fill me in on the important stuff that happened in the last like 20 pages or something?

a) Math pushed Horse hard, flipped VT
b) Toogolo got shot by yours truly, mafia kill went poof bye bye.
c) DGB says they may or may not know something about the missing mofia kill, and suggested a mass-claim.
d) Others says mass-claim is not smart, maybe the mason decides what happens as they're close to conftown.
e) Noraa came in asking what's happened
f) Jacko came in with a list of what's happened.
g) Jacko prepares to press the submit button
h) Jacko presses the-

[JacksonVirgo]

can someone fill me in on the important stuff that happened in the last like 20 pages or something?

a) Math pushed Horse hard, flipped VT
b) Toogolo got shot by yours truly, mafia kill went poof bye bye.
c) DGB says they may or may not know something about the missing mofia kill, and suggested a mass-claim.
d) Others says mass-claim is not smart, maybe the mason decides what happens as they're close to conftown.
e) Noraa came in asking what's happened
f) Jacko came in with a list of what's happened.
g) Jacko prepares to press the submit button
h) Jacko presses the-

who claimed vig? the masons are confirmed now and who are they?
Why tf would DGB suggest mass claim. that's stupid.
Ok fun good summary.

I’m the vigilante, and the masons aren’t confirmed but that claim would be wack for mafia

[JacksonVirgo]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

Can you back this up with further explanation?

[JacksonVirgo]

Wow okay ignore that

[JacksonVirgo]

And lol at wanting masons to out. How did I miss this?

....uh. come again? Jacko phrased it like they were outed so I was like "ok so who?"

I didn’t mean it to come out that way oof

[JacksonVirgo]

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Oh I was softing but not that

Go for it.

Push me.

C’mon I dare you. Lol

*push*

[JacksonVirgo]

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Usually reads on PR softs are unreliable

[JacksonVirgo]

Also my TR on Math has disappeared. the main reason for my TR was bc I thought he was softing vig and that it would be provable. But now that Jacko claimed vig, that no longer applies.

Oh I was softing but not that

Go for it.

Push me.

C’mon I dare you. Lol

TR disappear doesn't equal SR....
why are you so damn defensive?!!?!??!

Lol yes it does and that’s not defensive.

I am literally telling you to bring it.

Actually no it doesn’t.

TR disappearing can mean null or scum read doesn’t inherently mean that they’re Insta-SRing you

[JacksonVirgo]

I want a claim from Mark.

Then thoughts on who he thinks should go next and why. I'll either agree, or pick the next target myself

We shouldn’t be mass-claiming as it doesn’t benefit Town

[JacksonVirgo]

Was town before, but stopped being towny towards the end of the day which worries me.

What was not Townie by the end of the day?

His aggression and sorting from earlier in the day turned into a very forgettable presence

. It felt like he was

saying stuff just to say it

. The progression on horse, from thinking she said some towny stuff to going back to scumreading her didn’t feel

particularly genuine

. The response to flea’s case felt...

not as flippant as I expected

. The case was bad enough imo that I think most would be really frustrated by it as town and

guillo instead seemed to give more validity to the case than it had

.

Ok! I'm at home, let's do this!

1) I was the second highest poster on D1 (i think) where I scumhunted and push the slots that seemed the most suspicious to me. I was very far from being a forgettable presence!
2) I never say stuff just to say it as either alignment, I was split between my logical side scum reading Horsewoman and my heart side townreading her and that manifested in my hesitation to cast a final vote on her in various occasions. I ended up casting it on her because in my opinion she failed to town up, I don't know the reasons she had, she did say she was going through a mental breakdown (paraphrase) but I thought it was AtE. If I would have yeeted Tangeloo instead of Horsewoman if such wagon was possible but we all know that would have been a misyeet as well.
3) Flea's long wall post was ill intended and it was obvious that they were trying to provoke me, I tried to keep it respectful but I'm no goddamn saint, it pissed me off and I acted reacted accordingly. You say it was not as flippant as you expected and I say,

what do you know about me to have expectations about my behavior as a person?

And since when being allegedly disrespectful to someone is alignment indicative?
4) We all (except mafia) are trying scum hunt to solve the game to win. To me, everyone has validity, their opinions matter whether they are wrong or right, bad or good, because those inputs will help us solve the game. So I don't like it when you say that I seemed to give more validity to Flea's case than it had, it was valid for me and I had to address it. How is that bad eh?

1. Post count means nothing, at all. And just because you have a high post count doesn’t mean your posts hold any weight in people’s heads, thus can be forgettable.

2. That was a very complicated way to say you were fence sitting on them and chose they were more likely scum than town.

3. No comments

4. The first sentence screams LAMIST but is probably NAI.