Mini 1438: Gonzo Mafia (Scum Win)

[buldermar]

MAJIFFY Y U IGNORE ME?!

[buldermar]

I think it's better if I delay answering that question just a bit.

[buldermar]

MAJIFFY Y U IGNORE ME?!

Because you're shitting a biology class all over my poor game.

Glucocorticoids can easily cross the blood-brain barrier and access the brain where they bind to receptors in brain areas containing glucocorticoid receptors such as the hippocampus, amygdala and frontal lobes; all brain structures known to be implicated in learning and memory. Importantly, glucocorticoids bind with high affinity to at least two receptor subtypes with differential effects on cognitive function: Type I, and Type II. However, type I receptors bind glucocorticoids with an affinity about 6-10 times higher than that of Type II receptors. This is important because endogenous cortisol (or corticosterone) levels to some extent depend on the circadian rhythm. Specifically, during the circadian trough (the PM phase in humans and the AM phase in rats), more than 90% of Type I receptors, but only 10% of Type II receptors, are occupied. However, during the circadian peak of glucocorticoid secretion (the AM phase in humans and the PM phase in rats), type I receptors are saturated, and there is occupation of approximately 67-74% of Type II receptors.

[buldermar]

You learn that stuff in psychology too.

I'm mostly autodidact. I do some brain research alongside my study.

[buldermar]

LA LA LA LA IM NOT LISTENING IM NOT LISTENING

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO

IS ASK ME

WHY

I

DO NOT WANT YOU

TO LEAVE

YET

[buldermar]

moooooooolliiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Do you also like wine?

I think I would have investigated Fate as well if I were a night 1 PR.

I love red wine

rememory is horrifyingly irritating can you plz hold me

eta: LOL

Idk I'm afraid Majiffy will ban me if he gets too jealous...

[buldermar]

majiffy knows perfectly well that he has no reason to feel insecure even if he did threaten to break your penis in half like pencil

I had such an awesome joke lined up and you didn't ask me the simple question "why?"

I

AM

DISAPPOINTED

.

[buldermar]

That was actually to Majiffy.

[buldermar]

@Buldermar: Why did you say you would lynch Wisdom over Fate on page 61, post 1502. Can you give an explanation? Thank you.

I'll have a look.

[buldermar]

Everyone is afraid to vote Wisdom because he's posting a lot even though he's dropping horribly obvious scumtells all over the place, meanwhile voting Fate who no one really has a case on, or mislynch bait SE-Asians. Rem, you in particular are writing Wisdom off as town completely because he is active. Scum can post as much as town can. It's not impossibly difficult.

I don't know what to think of him. He's also making some town posts and claimed a day-1 PR if I'm not mistaking?

I thought it was Remembrance, Mollie, Nacho who did Day 1 PR.

Actually yeah scratch lynching mollie today my bad.

Oh... I'm probably voting Wisdom if it comes town to either Fate or Wisdom.

I don't recall exactly why I thought Wisdom looked scummy at this time, but I do recall that I at one point in time thought he looked scummy for claiming that he actually had a slight scum read on Asians while voting people who voted Asians for their day 1 stunt.

[buldermar]

wait nevermind,

mollie viewed fate as scum

.

Where did she say that?


Mollie posted one minute after her. TBH, it doesn't matter, I can't pursue this today. I'm just airing my thoughts. That's the reason I didn't want to talk about it, there's no benefit to it, at this time anyway.

what the fucking hell

I said in my first post that I fate came up as guilty and you bitched at me cos I didn't follow a "plan" that I did not fully agree to.

honestly, you look like panicked scum right now

He looked town to me for pointing up that you made a mistake in outing your result prematurely.

[buldermar]

jesu christ tomorrow you guys need to lynch the fuck out of rememory

No we don't.

[buldermar]

borky's replace out is fishy as fuck

Why?

Fate (L-2): pirate mollie, Human Destroyer, mantisdreamz, buldermar

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, Remembrance, Rubicon, I Am Innocent, SE-Asians, Fate, kuror0

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is Thursday, May 2nd at 2:30 PM EST

[buldermar]

fuck you guys, i protected mollie
but why would you lynch rach???

Because we like to piss you off.

[buldermar]

To be clear, I'm not pointing at Nacho, and I don't think his push on Wisdom was scummy (in case you thought I was attacking him because). I just think he should be investigated.

Fate (L-2): pirate mollie, Human Destroyer, mantisdreamz, buldermar

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, Remembrance, Rubicon, I Am Innocent, SE-Asians, Fate, kuror0

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is Thursday, May 2nd at 2:30 PM EST

what the fuck is this

Didn't see that the first time around, but that does look weird.

Why should he be investigated if a) you're not pointing at him and b) you don't think his push on Wisdom was scummy?

[buldermar]

Sorry!

[buldermar]

I was done reading and so I left

[buldermar]

It is the first time I see a night phase extension due to a replacement, which makes me suspicious of that slot.

Could you elaborate on this?

[buldermar]

Why would it be alignment indicative? I just don't follow your line of thought at all.

[buldermar]

That is, why would Majiffy think the night should be extended for scum-bork but not for town-bork?

[buldermar]

Maybe it is because his play style. Sorry, personally I don't like meta things even though I still use it as references, so I like to keep it myself.

It would have to be his play style seing that he was town, right? That's self-evident at this point.

[buldermar]

It would have to be his play style seing that he was town, right? That's self-evident at this point.

Yes, indeed, because I never play with scum-Wisdom, even though I already read all of his game (Because Wisdom one of the interesting player I have played with). No way everyone agree with that also. I ever protected Wisdom because of his meta, but no one believe. By the way Bulder, who do you think the other mafias?

I don't see a reason to look into that before Fate is lynched.

[buldermar]

Scum-bork would have actions and discussion to do during night phase that's why the extention to let the replacement use the night phase time makes sense to me. While town bork wouldn't. (We know he wasn't a N1 PR so town-bork would be just waiting for D2 to start and there would have no real impact on the game whether the replacement arrives at day or night.)

I guess I can't rule it out entirely, but I really, really doubt Majiffy would indirectly give us information about the alignment of bork in this manner.

[buldermar]

And it's fairly normal to extent nights when people needs to be replaced.

[buldermar]

If you think I'm trying to blow things out of proportion feel free to hold it against me, still I found it odd and makes me suspect the slot until I can find proofs that show me otherwise.

That's fair, and I don't hold it against you, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this one.

Fate (L-2): pirate mollie, Human Destroyer, mantisdreamz, buldermar

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, Remembrance, Rubicon, I Am Innocent, SE-Asians, Fate, kuror0

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is Thursday, May 2nd at 2:30 PM EST

[buldermar]

oh god I couldn't resist

Anyone want to pre-order my new book

A thousand ways to annoy and troll Majiffy

? Coming this summer at a shop near you if you're near the shop.

Wut.. I would never ever advocate trolling our beloved mod!

[buldermar]

^ This is a pro-scum post.

^ This is a Sherlock Holmes post.

[buldermar]

^ This is a pro-scum post.

^ This is a Sherlock Holmes post.

^ This is a buldermar post.

^ This is spam.

[buldermar]

^ This is a pro-scum post.

^ This is a Sherlock Holmes post.

^ This is a buldermar post.

^ This is spam.

^ This is Jack's Unending Surprise.

AND THIS IS THE LAST TIME THESE POSTS CAN BE QUOTED.

/WIN

[buldermar]

^ This is a pro-scum post.

^ This is a Sherlock Holmes post.

^ This is a buldermar post.

^ This is spam.

^ This is Jack's Unending Surprise.

AND THIS IS THE LAST TIME THESE POSTS CAN BE QUOTED.

/WIN

AND THIS IS THE LAST TIME THESE POSTS CAN BE QUOTED.

/WIN

[buldermar]

FUCK YOU I DEMAND A REMATCH

You're losing the rematch as well, during which I was talking to people and watching SC2 matches! NO EXCUSES!

[buldermar]

I'm guessing that has something to do with a chess match.

Indeed xD

[buldermar]

@Nacho: Thoughts on the current situation? I'm not Buldermar, I'm like, 1/200th of a Buldermar, but I can toss ideas back and forth.

We have a confirmed scum in our hands, HD is scum as fuck again, we probably should follow my plan from now on.
Rubicon pinged but bork seemed town as hell but I don't know if I'm counting him out early.

I agree with this except I'm not entirely convinced that HD is scum.

[buldermar]

@Buldermar: Do you think guilt by association is a real thing?

I don't understand this question.

[buldermar]

FUCK YOU I DEMAND A REMATCH

You're losing the rematch as well, during which I was talking to people and watching SC2 matches! NO EXCUSES!

no I AM NOT

Really? Is that something you want to make a sig bet on?

[buldermar]

It's a dumb question, nevermind.

Please give me a chance to understand it...

[buldermar]

buldermar won by checkmate

[buldermar]

To Bulder: Not to Nacho, the Nacho question is practically obligatory.

I really want to avoid answering that question, Bulder I got paranoid all of a sudden and it doesn't speak well of my mindset.

Now I really want to understand.

[buldermar]

People in this game are like electrons to me. They're both scum and town simultaneously. I listen to them as if they were town. And I listen to them as if they were scum. I reacted to his post, deciding that if he, Wisdom, wasn't scum, then he might have something, and I should unvote because he told me so. And then I, voted him-Wisdom- because I misunderstood information relating to the scum chat.

Quantum people.

[buldermar]

They are in a superposition until investigated, at which point they become either town or scum.

[buldermar]

And Bacde leaned town on Nacho even though, he really shouldn't have. I think Bacde was awkward with Nacho because they were both scum and Bacde didn't know how to interact with him. Nacho's tendency to interact with everyone, kind of bit him in the ass.

Do you have an example of Bacde being awkward with Nacho?

[buldermar]

Bork was rather adamant about not voting Wisdom when Fate jumped on, he jumped off, he didn't want the whole scum team on the Wisdom wagon at the same time, he jumped off it and tried very hard to stay off it, rather wanting to lynch Fate instead.

How do you know that he didn't merely jump off because he thought that Fate was scum and Wisdom was town? How do you know that it's because "he didn't want the whole scum team on Wisdom wagon"?

[buldermar]

Further my chats with Nacho and Nacho's early chats with Bulder (for example when Bulder showed Nacho that post by Bacde, Nacho couldn't figure out what was scummy with the post, showing his difficulty having a town perspective.

You may be right that Nacho is scum, but I think this is grasping for something that simply isn't there. In my experience, Nacho doesn't have a problem with making the hypothesis that he's town and playing accordingly. Anyway, do you recall exactly what post this is? I'd like to reread it.

[buldermar]

I'm probably dumb and wrong and paranoid here(This is what I was talking about, when I asked you about guilt by association Bulder). But I needed to say it anyway. I should be sitting on this instead of saying anything, but I don't see the benefit in it. I've been given advice that I have a horrible sense of timing and it tends to get me grilled, but I think this is something that town should discuss.

I'm still not convinced that I understand the supposed association. Feeling guilty about something is associated with being guilty, or?

I think it doesn't hurt bringing all of this up, but I think I have one major issue with a lot of it. It seems as if you've made the hypothesis that the scum team must consist of x+y+z and then reread parts of the thread with the sole goal of showing how this hypothesis could be true. That's confirmation biased and does not contribute to any accurate analysis...

[buldermar]

Nacho I'm you think SE-Asians didn't slip?

If I was scum I'd be bussing this shit out of that

Use the link, it's thanks to Mantis for pointing it out to me.

I think I understand, but not all awkward conversations are scum-scum interactions, even if most scum-scum interactions tend to be awkward. Maybe I'm biased because I really think Nacho is town for suggesting the initial plan. I just don't see the motivation for that as scum and it looked quite sincere to me.

[buldermar]

It's my opinion.

And is it your opinion purely because you had already made your hypothesis before reading the post, or is it your opinion for some other reason as well?

[buldermar]

LOL

Vote: SE-Asians

HD I love you sometimes

This one.

So you're scumreading me, then?

Read the links for the whole situation.

Your hypothesis seems to rely on Nacho intentionally acting slow to apprehend, is that correct? I don't think he does that as either alignment.

[buldermar]

I town read him today too, but he was acting strange to me. So I noted it. But that's just my opinion.

I understand that, and I want to try to see things from your perspective, as I'm quite convinced that you're town. I also do weight in your opinion in my own assessment, if that makes sense?

[buldermar]

-what do you mean I am impossible to deal with? (this is a big one, he loves me goddammit!)

This is how I feel whenever you are town and I am town and you get me mislynched because you're convinced that I must be scum.

[buldermar]

I REALLY REALLY REALLY. Think Rubicon is scum though.

I'm agreeing with this whenever I look at just Rubicon's posts, but then when I recall that she replaced bork I'm like no that slot just can't be scum -_-

[buldermar]

It's my opinion.

And is it your opinion purely because you had already made your hypothesis before reading the post, or is it your opinion for some other reason as well?

We start with hypotheses, then we conduct experiments to see if they're correct. I'm giving an explanation for their behaviors. I predict it is right (Because it's my opinion), but experiments can prove me wrong.

The correct process would be a) hypothesis, b) collecting and analyzing data

in an unbiased manner

. Obviously it can't "really" be unbiased, but I think a lot of people selectively interpret everything according to their own hypothesis, thus reassuring themself in their hypothesis. I just wanted to mention it as something to be wary of, I'm not even sure that it holds true for you. I just kind of got the impression from your post - perhaps mostly because it would be a bit extreme if you actually did correctly point out the scum team already.

[buldermar]

It relies more on him having difficulty apprehending because that is not the focus of his reading. I.E., he's looking for things not related to hunting scum, so much as he is looking for suspicion and thinking about what position to take.

Edit: Yes, I understand perfectly.

That makes sense. But why would he not when answering a question read back and make sure that he's understanding correctly? You said yourself that in your experience scum takes a bit longer when responding to questions for this reason, right? It seems like such an easy "slip" to avoid.

[buldermar]

-what do you mean I am impossible to deal with? (this is a big one, he loves me goddammit!)

This is how I feel whenever you are town and I am town and you get me mislynched because you're convinced that I must be scum.

I only got you mislynched that one time and that was after you tried to get me mislynched! I didn't get you lynched in KISS I voted metal!

Nonetheless everything I said in my sentence holds true!

[buldermar]

@Rubicon:
1. Are you scum?

I don't get why people ask this question. It is probably the most useless question to ask in this game. You're better off asking what his favorite colour is.

[buldermar]

Nacho I'm you think SE-Asians didn't slip?

If I was scum I'd be bussing this shit out of that

Use the link, it's thanks to Mantis for pointing it out to me.

I think I understand, but not all awkward conversations are scum-scum interactions, even if most scum-scum interactions tend to be awkward. Maybe I'm biased because I really think Nacho is town for suggesting the initial plan. I just don't see the motivation for that as scum and it looked quite sincere to me.

maybe he made the plan because that's what would be expected of him, as town. also it's easy for scum to talk about game dynamics, since it's a pretty neutral topic.

I doubt anyone would expect of him to come up with a game-breaking plan, but it being a neutral topic is a good point, I suppose.

[buldermar]

nacho is so god damn town

you dumb clownfucks

I hope everyone here is experienced enough to just disregard everything Fate has to say at this point.

[buldermar]

I trust this.

This is dumb.

[buldermar]

Good job with that quote tag.

You know that you messed up when the mod is trashtalking you.

[buldermar]

@Rubicon:
1. Are you scum?
2.What do you think of your predecessor's play? Don't Iso him, just give your general opinion.
3. You said you hoped someone investigated Nacho, "because Nacho" can you elaborate on what you meant by this? How do you know Nacho?

1. I'm town.
2. It looked fine to me. But to be honest, I know why you're asking this, so you shouldn't read much into my answer.
3. I simply think it's a good strategy to townfirm players who people can't accurately read. Maybe you guys disagree, but whatever, that's just theory.

I've read enough of all you guys' games to not have much confidence in your ability to read nacho

. If he's town, then in my opinion it's better to

know

he's town. There is nothing more to my comment than this.

Anyway, I feel a bit bad that I've made people suspect this slot, but I'm not too worried about it. I think it's just that I haven't contributed anything yet. As soon as I have the time, I'll put on my analyzer hat and finish reading ISOs, and once I actually post content I think it'll be obvious that I'm town (it usually is). Contrary to what you said, I'm not "stalling on contributing", it's just I've had to catch up on 200+ pages of mafia games in the last week and that means prioritizing.

so which of my games did you read where you drew the conclusion that I can't read nacho? do tell.

mollie my love, do you read me well?

[buldermar]

j/k j/k...

[buldermar]

buldey considering you are doing fuck all in this day round I defo think you need to be viewed

will someone plz take care of this but rubi first

I'm not going to do jack shit all day because I'm not going to spend time reading people that potentially will get nk'ed. I gain more information from spending the same amount of time tomorrow. The only thing we have left to do is figure out what plan to use today.

[buldermar]

hey mollie guess what
buldermar is probably scum this game

I'm always scum - especially when I play with mollie.

[buldermar]

Isn't that right, mollie? hur hur hur

[buldermar]

I can't help but to still think that Nacho should be town, but at the same time I'd think town-Nacho would know for sure that I'm town. I don't recall him ever pushing me as a non-town aligned role, though.

[buldermar]

cops claim for today and then i think i'm ready to end this

I'm guessing we're going with your strategy.

In that case, everyone should mention that they have seen this.

[buldermar]

UH

^^ fail

[buldermar]

And before you say anything, shut the fuck up, Buldermar.

Too late

[buldermar]

Rubicon, Human Destroyer, kuror0, buldermar...

Rubicon, HD, buldermar...

What?

[buldermar]

I
As for investigating me, that would kill 2 birds with 1 stone N2 as it would allow 2 investigations to be gone if there is no N2 doc and juror is legit by targeting me for the kill.

What? Please explain me this, because I quite don't understand.

[buldermar]

I am not going to do anything today.

You just want to be more like me, don't you?

[buldermar]

No. I'm not voting confirmed scum today because I think he is town.

Alright enough trolling for one day.

[buldermar]

She really is.

I totally agree.

Fate (L-2): pirate mollie, Human Destroyer, mantisdreamz, buldermar

Not Voting: Nachomamma8, Remembrance, Rubicon, I Am Innocent, SE-Asians, Fate, kuror0

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is Thursday, May 2nd at 2:30 PM EST

[buldermar]

Who hasn't claimed yet if they are a N2 cop or not?

I havn't directly, but I'm not a N2 cop.

[buldermar]

Investigate me, please. Will make my life easier.

This is inherently anti-town if you're town.

[buldermar]

How so? (genuinely curious)

We want to potentially find scum. You're confirmed town to yourself, so it would be a waste to use an investigation on you.

[buldermar]

GODDAMNIT BULDERMAR.

[buldermar]

How so? (genuinely curious)

We want to potentially find scum. You're confirmed town to yourself, so it would be a waste to use an investigation on you.

...Nobody cares that I'm confirmed town to myself. It's what's confirmed to everybody else that matters.

I'm one of the most likely lynches tomorrow, so, townfirming me avoids that and gives the town an extra kill to use on someone who actually is scum. QED.

It's Q.E.D., and you didn't demonstrate shit.

[buldermar]

it is a waste to investigate me since fate is confirmed scum and his flip will pretty much support my claim

I agree with this.

[buldermar]

Meh, I investigated Nacho last night.

Right now Rubi and Mantis are my top suspects. But need to re-read to have the Nacho flip into account.

You what?

[buldermar]

Sorry Kuror0, that was immature of me.

On to the game.

I don't think it was at all, I don't get the Nacho investigation from his perspective. When did he ever raise concern regarding Nacho?

[buldermar]

Don't know what he was getting at with post #2688. Anyone have any ideas?

I don't know.

[buldermar]

I protected IaI. I didn't like the thought of protecting kuro and I couldn't recall who the 3rd claimed cop was.

[buldermar]

Nacho's.

[buldermar]

I actually read your post as "which plan were we doing". I think we're still doing the same plan, though, so it shouldn't matter.

[buldermar]

My suggestion for today:

First - Everyone gives their top 2 suspects (want this on record before I disclose my result)
Second - I disclose my result
Third - We talk about the plan going forward

Since I have inside information, I will give my top 2 suspects list last.

Rubicon and kuro.

[buldermar]

I protected IaI. I didn't like the thought of protecting kuro and I couldn't recall who the 3rd claimed cop was.

why didn't you protect me? fate's flip cleared me

You don't have any night ability and thus it would make no sense for scum to target you.

[buldermar]

VOTE: buldemar

your protect makes even less sense than kuror viewing nacho. how the fuck is IaI your strongest town read

He's not my strongest town read. What the fuck does that even matter? I'm not supposed to protect my strongest town read, I'm supposed to protect the person I think is most likely to be a target by scum.

You're just voting me because you're moody and annoyed with me and it's silly.

[buldermar]

I protected IaI. I didn't like the thought of protecting kuro and I couldn't recall who the 3rd claimed cop was.

why didn't you protect me? fate's flip cleared me

You don't have any night ability and thus it would make no sense for scum to target you.

scum would be targeting cleared players

VOTE: buldemar

your protect makes even less sense than kuror viewing nacho. how the fuck is IaI your strongest town read

He's not my strongest town read. What the fuck does that even matter? I'm not supposed to protect my strongest town read, I'm supposed to protect the person I think is most likely to be a target by scum.

You're just voting me because you're moody and annoyed with me and it's silly

.

I am voting you cos what you did does not make sense. if you cannot remember who the outed n2 prs were you should have protected one of the cleared players, which you chose not to do.

anyways your last statement takes things to a personal level that you are using to discredit me.

mod, plz replace me

Why would scum be targeting cleared players that already used their abilities? I disagree with that premise.

I did remember two of the three outed PR's and I chose IaI to protect because his most recent posts were pro-town and he seemed genuinely interested in planning ahead. I think protecting a cleared player with no night ability would be silly. You're free to disagree, but I don't automatically become scum because of that.

My last statement is how I perceive things. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. I can only discredit you to the extent that you don't provide an alternative interpretation. I don't think it's fair to say that I'm taking things to a personal level, and I'm not going to apologize for saying that you're voting me because you're moody and annoyed with me, because I sincerely think that's exactly the reason.

Anyway, the mollie slot is probably town for replacing out.

[buldermar]

Well played.

[buldermar]

VOTE: Rubicon

[buldermar]

Bulde has been quite jumpy today or is it just me?

This looks scummy. I want to see an example of why you'd think I'm jumpy.

[buldermar]

mollie, what do you think of Rubicon?

Rubicon (L-3): Remembrance, buldermar
Buldermar (L-3): pirate mollie, Rubicon

mantisdreamz, I Am Innocent, SE-Asians, Human Destroyer, kuror0

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline is Sunday, May 12th 2013, at 12:00 AM EST.

[buldermar]

There is also a 100% definitive way to prove whether you're scum or not. We lynch you.

[buldermar]

I miss Nachopappa

[buldermar]

kuro are you deliberately ignoring me?

[buldermar]

@Bulde your vote on Rubi, the fight whit mollie and your reaction to my investigation. Maybe it is just me but it looked you were more relaxed past days.

I think I've been fairly explicit about the fact that I wasn't going to do shit on day 2 after mollie got a guilty on Fate. I can find examples of that if need be.

How does the conbination of questioning your investigation (which others seems to do as well), fighting with mollie (which really is more related to meta between us than anything else) and voting Rubi (whom I consider to currently be the most scummy person) tantamount to being jumpy? The only thing I think you can accurately accuse me of is being more active than I was on the day prior to this, which is a completely different matter.

[buldermar]

Bulde was quite town to me but today's interactions make me have my doubts.

What specific interactions? I'd appreciate if you could provide me an example or two of something in my interactions that came across as scummy, and why.

[buldermar]

ewbop: Huh...?

What does ewbop mean?

[buldermar]

There is also a 100% definitive way to prove whether you're scum or not. We lynch you.

Yup, that would prove I'm town, and make your reaction to my wagon analysis post look even more incriminating than it already does.

(I'm still kind of hoping IAI took me up on the whole "investigate me" thing, though, so we can skip to the point.)

What makes you think that me voting you is even remotedly related to your wagon analysis, other than the fact that I voted you subsequent to it?

Also, nice try with the "hey look guys I must be town because I still hope I was investigated" comment.

[buldermar]

There is also a 100% definitive way to prove whether you're scum or not. We lynch you.

Yup, that would prove I'm town, and make your reaction to my wagon analysis post look even more incriminating than it already does.

(I'm still kind of hoping IAI took me up on the whole "investigate me" thing, though, so we can skip to the point.)

What makes you think that me voting you is even remotedly related to your wagon analysis, other than the fact that I voted you subsequent to it?

Yes - that, plus the deliciously revealing silence of you not explaining your vote, followed by you not responding to it at all, makes the picture pretty clear. I like to play the reaction test game, and you reacted beautifully (and still are).

Remaining scum after buldermar is in {HD, mantis, Pirate}, in descending order of suspiciousness. (Barring any game-changing result from IAI, of course.)

The most entertaining aspect of this conversation is the fact that I'm the one reaction testing you by voting you without providing an explanation - not the other way around, as you seem to insinuate. Instead of asking me why I voted you, you OMGUS'ed me and blamed me for not explaining my vote. What's the town motivation for that?

What is it that I'm not responding to? Make sure to answer this one.

[buldermar]

noooooooooooooooope

You weren't "reaction testing" me by trying to see how I'd respond to you (1) voting me immediately after I laid out a case for you and your partners being scum, (2) not giving any reason, and (3) ignoring my analysis.

Try again.

I was reaction testing you, whether you like it or not. Not by voting you, but by not explaining the vote. You're pretty dumb to think that I'd be making such a silly slip if I was scum in the first place.

What analysis am I ignoring?

Also, you

still

havn't asked me about my vote; you're so full of shit.

[buldermar]

noooooooooooooooope

This is obvious from the context of our conversation.

Try again.

Really? I don't see it. Do explain.

[buldermar]

VOTE: buldermar
Obvious reaction is obvious.

This is where you made your first mistake in asserting that my vote on you was related to your bandwagon analysis or whatever you called it.

[buldermar]

RachMarie

(L-0) -

Wisdom

, buldermar, Remembrance, mantisdreamz, pirate mollie,

Fate

, kuror0

Very likely that one or more scum is on this list between Wisdom and Fate.

Fate

(L-0) - pirate mollie, Human Destroyer, mantisdreamz, buldermar,

Nachomamma8

, I Am Innocent

Very likely that one or more scum is on this list before Nacho.

These players match both criteria:

buldermar
mantisdreamz
pirate mollie

Buldermar and mollie are very unlikely to both be scum.

Remembrance is on the first list, HD on the second. Remembrance is probably town, though.

kuror0 and SE-Asians are definitely town.

I suppose this is what you're talking about. I guess statistically it's very likely that one or more scum was on the list between Wisdom and Fate just because it contains almost all players.

It's pretty silly to think that the two wagons are somehow related and that players matching both criteria stand out because Wisdom was town whereas Fate was scum. This is also evident by the fact that you have mollie on that list: a player who is virtually confirmed town due to her guilty on Fate (in addition to her desire of replacing out, in my opinion). Can you explain this logic?

[buldermar]

but I don't understand why he mentioned Bulder in it. Help me out here. It's town Nacho. There's some reason he got killed over two cops, other than the wifom fear factor.

The only thing I can think of would be setting me up for a lynch because he thought I may be scum before the day ended. If that is the case, scum-kuror would make sense.

[buldermar]

Also mollie: you're still voting me.

[buldermar]

I got a town result last night. I will say who once SE Asians checks in with a Top 2. I am now starting to wonder if Kuror is scum and chose the last scum as part of his list. This would ensure 1) that I did not investigate scum N2 2) they had free reign to kill anyone not named me or Kuror as the N2 docs would likely be protecting us (sorry pirate, this was the right move)

I suggested mollie divide the pool between us.

Nacho suggested randomly dividing the list (looking back at that post, Nacho suggested I take ALL THREE of the players Kuror originally wanted)

Nacho also suggested a draft as a 3rd option

Kuror rejected all three of these. Then the target he picks dies over either cop. Mollie/Buldie, remember what I did on Posh N2/D3....as the "cop", I also "targeted" the NK. Keeps the pool of confirmed town smaller....which would be needed as I would be confirming a town D3.

I'll have more to say why I have these suspicions after I release my investigation result.

Needless to say, my Top 2 are Kuror and Remembrance

I'll have to think some more about this, but I do have one immediate question: how come Remembrance over mantis? Am I missing something?

[buldermar]

Unless you think the scum team is HD & myself, he is a legit cop.

Why did you out that he's a cop? Or am I being stupid and missing something obvious now?

[buldermar]

We need him to be protected, or at least seem possibly protected, hence why I think we are best off keeping Rubicon and Mantis from claiming today (unless they are a N3 cop, then they claim and we split the investigation targets again, this time with Mollie dividing the list).

Thoughts on the plan?

I think it's a decent plan, but I'm not fully convinced about your mantis read.

[buldermar]

Unless you think the scum team is HD & myself, he is a legit cop.

Why did you out that he's a cop? Or am I being stupid and missing something obvious now?

I claimed N3 cop...

Oh, okay. Sorry.

[buldermar]

I'm thinking about IaI's plan. I don't like it because it is protecting my scum read. And also protects Mantis from having to do much today. But it has good points too. I need to think it over and decide if the benefits outweigh the cost.

Who is your scum read again? I feel like I've been brainwashed, but I've had so much on my mind lately that I've really forgotten about a lot of events in this game. Sorry again.

[buldermar]

Nvm that's evident from your vote, I suppose.

I have similar worries to yours, Rem.

[buldermar]

You are theorizing a lot about the NK choice and accusing me based on that theory. I can't really know why they choose Nacho over all the other possible targets. If you gonna accuse me of being scum use facts and not theory because it is impossible for me to defend against suppositions.

There are seldom facts to use in this game; theorization will often have to do.

[buldermar]

Do I really need to read all of this conversation between IaI and kuro?

[buldermar]

mollie you can control my vote since you're essentially confirmed town. I'll take control of it again once I'm motivated, though.

[buldermar]

Hey guys this is just your friendly neighborhood mod checking in. I'm really bored. Are you? Do I have prods due? I have no idea, because I don't really give a fuck about things like activity and accurate vote counts.

Have fun posting!

Get Nacho back in this game. You have the power, so use it for something!

[buldermar]

So are we lynching Rubi or kuro?

[buldermar]

tbh I think I want to lynch mantis

Why?

[buldermar]

What does everyone think about the 2 remaining players claiming their power role (but not the night) based on the logic above?

I guess has the potential to be useful, but they wont both claim cop every time a) at least one of them is scum or b) at least one of them is doc.

[buldermar]

Whoops forgot about Wisdom. So forget the part I said about confirming all the living docs, that was wrong.

Yeah in that case the remaining players shouldn't out imo.

[buldermar]

I also still think that if Mantis and/or SE Asians are a cop, they should claim at this point. Then we have guaranteed scum in the living claimed cops, as 7 total would be had.

I've lost track. Do you have a spreadsheet or something with the claims/outs for the various nights? If you do I promise I'll spend some time looking into it.

[buldermar]

From what I remember:

Day 1: Nacho(doc), Rem(Doc), Mollie(cop).
Day 2: Rach(cop), buldermar(doc), Kuror(cop), IaI (cop)
Day 3: Wisdom (doc), HD(cop)
Day 4: Rubi (cop)
Day 5: Se-Asians(?)

Mantis(?)

night 5

I'll give you all 3 guesses as to why this is the most anti-town post mantis could've made at this point in the game.

I'm guessing because Rubi now probably dies no matter what?

But it could be a gambit by Mantis - that would be brilliant.

[buldermar]

UNVOTE:

I think it would be smarter to lynch Rubi tomorrow and lynch whoever we were going to lynch tomorrow today instead, if that's possible.

[buldermar]

IAI, forgive me if you have already commented on it, but what do you think of mantis voting kuror when taking into consideration your own pool to lynch from in order of preference being kuror then mantis?

[buldermar]

- I mentioned gambits because they're a real possibility and mollie / others were saying she was townfirmed, which she isn't (yet).

I've never seen mollie make this kind of gambit and I'm inclined to not consider it a possibility, which in turn nearly confirms her as being town to me.

- b

[buldermar]

Still want to lynch Rubicon. If you disagree (as many have already said), I'd appreciate it if you could walk me through the reasoning where it is good to let this slot live for two more days on the chance they are town. That's more than what most scum get. A lot more.

Are we not debating letting her live

one

more day? Am I being stupid again?

- b

[buldermar]

I've had a busy day, I'll attend to this thread tomorrow or later tonight if I can't fall asleep.

[buldermar]

Buldermar, what is your take on the situation? Not this whole situation, I mean the whole game. Who do you think is scum? Why?

Current opinion on the situation:
I don't think Mantis is scum. I recently iso'd Mantis. And Mollie has a serious point, I don't know Mantis's meta but she has not displayed an initiative in the game. But she has given her stances, her opinions have always seemed right (even when they were wrong), and she often voices my fears. I'm worried as shit that IaI is directing us too.

I don't see what's scummy about Mantis, but I don't feel like I can rule it out entirely. I think you, HD, IAI and mollie are all town. Don't like kuror and Rubi.

Of the four town reads, I'm mostly sure about mollie - I just refuse to believe she'd buss Fate like this. The alignments of HD and IAI are tied, right?

[buldermar]

so who are your scum reads?

IAI -for first one.
tell me what you think of his latest post?

after that, if HD and him aren't playing a gambit....dunno.
i don't think you as scum would deliver fate on a platter for us. I def. think SE Asians is town, and i was paranoid of Remembrance for a bit, but i really think he's town. Stuff like - questioning SE, stuff like going after Bacde right *right* at the beginning.

I went to look at Bulder's ISO ---it's soo long though. if Rubicon or Kuror are not scum, i'd be starting to look at him.

maybe i'll take a closer look at his ISO. i did for a bit, a point towards him, was when he was talking to Nacho about Bacde. However, the reason why i have him as a slight niggle...because what i saw was a lot of question asking, but not really many declarations.

this is scummy mantis to the core lol. rubicon is her partner cos she earlier said that he looked like an easy mislynch and here she is saying "oh if rubicon or kuror are not scum I'd look at buldey". lol

can we lynch her or rubicon plz

I'd prefer rubi over mantis.

[buldermar]

i'll out the role if the rest of town thinks that fine to do right now.

I don't really see how you outing your role could potentially benefit town, and I can see how it could potentially hurt town... Am I missing something here?

[buldermar]

also mollie, if i were scum why would i be playing the way i have? voting remembrance, then removing my vote.. changing mind on him.. reads being all over the place. scum are way more careful, and you know this.

Why would you not do it and then point out how you'd never do it as scum if you're scum? I don't like this self-meta argument at all.

[buldermar]

alright, it did occur that scum wouldn't out themselves

night 5 doc

Why???? What the fuck is the point of you outing your role?

[buldermar]

VOTE: Buldermar

I will not hesitate. The above looks like scum posting. There was little critical thinking, and a lot of trying to look town in the above, it almost looked like a play-by-play:

of things town say^tm

. I got fooled. I'll wait for the flip, or I'll get flipped, but then flip Buldermar after.

Further, this is basically how Buldermar has gone today: "Lynch Kuror0," "Lynch Rubicon," "don't lynch Rubicon""Lynch Mantis or Rubicon" He doesn't seem to care who gets lynched. Which is a scum tell. There's not giving a shit, and then there is his posting. I am an idiot, and probably got fooled.

This is probably the worst vote In the history of Mafia.

Nah I think you're generally accurate with your analysis with the exception that you think it's scum motivated. I don't feel like my mind has really been with this game actually more or less since day 1. I could say that I don't have time, but really I just don't feel motivated.

I think both town and scum has to look town. That being said, I don't think I tried to look town in the above - can you point out what about it is bothering you?

I still think Kuror0 is a good lynch. I think that we should delay Rubicon lynch at least one day because that way, should she be telling the truth, scum will be more or less forced to kill her. I believe I already asked what I'm missing regarding this, but I don't recall getting an answer. I don't think I've been advocating a Mantis lynch at all, so I don't get where you got that part from. I don't see what's so scummy about Mantis, but I also admit not to reading her well.

I think you're right that there is not giving a shit in my posting, and to the extent that I'm not being explicit about it I suppose you could say that I'm "trying to look town".

[buldermar]

i'll out the role if the rest of town thinks that fine to do right now.

I don't really see how you outing your role could potentially benefit town, and I can see how it could potentially hurt town... Am I missing something here?

Yes, actually you are. I have a plan.

By the way, IaI's alignment is only relevant to mine if I'm scum (for obvious reasons); since I'm town he could just be fakeclaiming the innocent.

It's also relevant to yours if he's town (as that would prove you town).

[buldermar]

Buldermar, what is your take on the situation? Not this whole situation, I mean the whole game. Who do you think is scum? Why?

Current opinion on the situation:
I don't think Mantis is scum. I recently iso'd Mantis. And Mollie has a serious point, I don't know Mantis's meta but she has not displayed an initiative in the game. But she has given her stances, her opinions have always seemed right (even when they were wrong), and she often voices my fears. I'm worried as shit that IaI is directing us too.

I don't see what's scummy about Mantis, but I don't feel like I can rule it out entirely. I think you, HD, IAI and mollie are all town. Don't like kuror and Rubi.

Of the four town reads, I'm mostly sure about mollie - I just refuse to believe she'd buss Fate like this. T

he alignments of HD and IAI are tied, right?

I missed this post.

No they aren't, given who the scum team killed and his pool, he would have had to give a result. They're separate.

They're tied in that HD gets confirmed town if IAI flips town, and that IAI gets confirmed scum if HD flips scum, am I right?

[buldermar]

How many hours from now is deadline?

[buldermar]

1. Yes.
2. Yes.

That's why it's impossible for them to be a scum team this game. Because HD would not have pointed out Mantis's mistake if he was. Because if he lives, the gambit instantly fails. HD recognizes it too.

The reason I still want to lynch Rubicon is because this buys the scum team a lot of time and gives them a lot less pressure. Wisdom was the ideal player in that he pressured and questioned everyone. And it was ridiculously helpful, especially after he died. Since we can go back and get a bunch of information on it. But we're running out of time. We now have all the players outed. 6 docs and 6 cops. An stupidly convenient number where we can't determine which side has a fake claim in it.

i'll out the role if the rest of town thinks that fine to do right now.

I don't really see how you outing your role could potentially benefit town, and I can see how it could potentially hurt town... Am I missing something here?

also mollie, if i were scum why would i be playing the way i have? voting remembrance, then removing my vote.. changing mind on him.. reads being all over the place. scum are way more careful, and you know this.

Why would you not do it and then point out how you'd never do it as scum if you're scum? I don't like this self-meta argument at all.

alright, it did occur that scum wouldn't out themselves

night 5 doc

Why???? What the fuck is the point of you outing your role?

The posts right above my accusation looked like someone

who cared, a lot.

a bunch of question marks, and such. This would be okay coming from newbie town, or someone who has demonstrated anxiety, but from you it just looks forced. You've always been asking questions and contributing, but you've never really ever acted like that before now. It's exaggerated. I've seen this sort of stuff from scum (though usually closer to lylo), where they start to overcompensate.

I think we have 7 or so hours.

You asked me what my take on the game was - I figured you wanted to get me more involved, which is understandable. I feel it

was

kind of forced in that sense.

[buldermar]

buldey why did you refer to rubicon as a female? it says male under the avatar and that is what you usually go with so that is weird.

I don't know? Why is this important?

[buldermar]

I think mantis's is the only lynch we are going to be able to push through. it is very weird that buldey hasn't put a vote down yet. he kept saying he was going to give me his vote but he never actually did.

that was me

tell me who to vote and stop complaining.

[buldermar]

The only agenda I have is for you to not make up your own story. Anyone else could have, who actually agreed that Rubicon should die, you didn't. It's a contradiction. No one was going to hammer without a claim, and that just shows you're trying to look town, by saying it that way at all. Do you honestly think if you didn't say anything someone would quick hammer and out themselves as scum? No. They would go by standard procedure.

Is this post for me?

[buldermar]

Alright.

[buldermar]

I don't recall if I had a reason to out or if I was just stupid.

[buldermar]

I am seriously wondering about SE. I have completed games with all 3 right now and I still don't know. they look scummy to me. dunno about kuror like even when he posts he somehow manages to slip off of my radar and tbh that is usually a scumtell.

SE is town. I believe I've explained why, although it's some time ago.

[buldermar]

Fuck it then.

VOTE: Mantisdreams

I am so fucking sorry if you're town.

If you can, please give your final reads in twilight.

i am.

i think its IAI and buldey .... not kuror OR rubicon.


remembrance - you referred to bulldey's post (page 124 or so) - you were right to call them out. i noted one comment buldey made - "he has trouble reading me" .. that's kind of nonsense, the one game we played on here, i think he was pretty certain i was town. on other forums, i don't recall him wondering over my alignment.

mollie - i wish you wouldn't get so paranoid of me. my scum game is super obvious !!

Is your alias the same on TR? I've completely forgotten that we've played on TR together before.

[buldermar]

I scrolled down on page 125 and thought I was ISO'ing Majiffy, lol..

[buldermar]

Changed my mind, I am not going to wait for SE Asians.

I investigated Human Destroyer last night. He came back as town.

That means between Rach, myself, HD, and Mollie, I am very certain that is 4 cops. We have between 4 & 6 cops. With Rubicon, Mantis, and SE Asians all still unknown, it makes Kuror0 seem a little more suspicious. Factor in the investigation target coincidentally ended up getting NK'd, and he insisted on his target list, I am believing less and less that he is legit.

Unless you think the scum team is HD & myself, he is a legit cop. We need him to be protected, or at least seem possibly protected, hence why I think we are best off keeping Rubicon and Mantis from claiming today (unless they are a N3 cop, then they claim and we split the investigation targets again, this time with Mollie dividing the list).

Thoughts on the plan?

PS - Those who had HD in their top 2, would you please replace him with someone else?

vote kuror0

Fact #1: HD was a N3 cop
Fact #2: Mantis was a doctor
Fact #3: Scum did not know as of this post what night Mantis was a doctor (1/3 chance it was N3 for all they knew)
Fact #4: If SE Asians and Rubicon are both town, they would not know which is the doc, so if it was Rubicon, there could have been 2 docs that had a chance of being a N3 doc to protect HD

Now to see who pushed Rubicon (forcing a claim) and who was against the strategy of keeping future docs hidden so HD had a better chance of not being the N3 kill.

I think it's a decent plan, but I'm not fully convinced about your mantis read.

I'm thinking about IaI's plan. I don't like it because it is protecting my scum read. And also protects Mantis from having to do much today. But it has good points too. I need to think it over and decide if the benefits outweigh the cost.

Nvm that's evident from your vote, I suppose.

I have similar worries to yours, Rem.

Changed my mind, I am not going to wait for SE Asians.

I investigated Human Destroyer last night. He came back as town.

That means between Rach, myself, HD, and Mollie, I am very certain that is 4 cops. We have between 4 & 6 cops. With Rubicon, Mantis, and SE Asians all still unknown, it makes Kuror0 seem a little more suspicious. Factor in the investigation target coincidentally ended up getting NK'd, and he insisted on his target list, I am believing less and less that he is legit.

Unless you think the scum team is HD & myself, he is a legit cop. We need him to be protected, or at least seem possibly protected, hence why I think we are best off keeping Rubicon and Mantis from claiming today (unless they are a N3 cop, then they claim and we split the investigation targets again, this time with Mollie dividing the list).

Thoughts on the plan?

PS - Those who had HD in their top 2, would you please replace him with someone else?

vote kuror0

okay you are making sense here

IaI, I will probably not entirely trust you until I see your town game.

I am good with rubicon, that was the plan at the start of the day and he has not done anything to make me change my mind.

VOTE: rubicon

Requesting prod of Mantisdreams

Thank you.

@IaI, if you're going to entertain the possibility of being a scum team with HD, then you might as well go full tilt with all the other ideas as well. You're the only player so far who has been insecure about their claim. It not only forwards your plan (which is fine), but it is also a defense of your innocence since such a team would be somewhat unlikely.

After thinking about it, I don't agree with your plan. Even at an instinctual level I feel that there is scum being protected if such a plan were to be accepted. this does not mean you're scum with these people (Mantis/Rubicon), but you are probably protecting scum. I don't think such a plan is advantageous to town.

@Everyone, what do you think of IaI's plan? A few have already answered, but some haven't, I'd like to hear their opinion about it. Is there some way that this would be an advantageous to town, even if the plan protected scum this game day? A flaw I recognized when thinking about it, is that if one of them is scum, they not only don't have to be pressured today, but can claim another day and this will assure their survival for that day as well. You might be buying scum not just today, but also tomorrow, which is a huge price to pay.

I'm conflicted though. Because I keep thinking of the benefits associated with getting another confirmed town or catching scum through investigation. Ugh. I don't know.
Rubicon or Mantis is scum:
1. They live today
2. Can claim tomorrow.
Scum might get two days to live.

Rubicon or Mantis is scum:

We let them live:
The wifom works,
HD clears someone of suspicion (or we get unlucky and he investigates someone who gets nked)

Best case scenario: have 3 very likely town (neither Bulder or Mollie gets nked), or a scum gets investigated. Am I missing anything?

VOTE: Rubicon

This was the 4th vote. Remembrance and Buldermar already had 2 votes on Rubicon, but never did remove their votes despite both considering the plan at points. I am pretty sure one of them are scum.

This post is terrible. I was both suggesting and advocating postponing lynching Rubicon to get in a potential night investigation. Why did you leave out all of these posts? Why did you leave out the fact that I offered mollie my vote?

From what I remember:

Day 1: Nacho(doc), Rem(Doc), Mollie(cop).
Day 2: Rach(cop), buldermar(doc), Kuror(cop), IaI (cop)
Day 3: Wisdom (doc), HD(cop)
Day 4: Rubi (cop)
Day 5: Se-Asians(?)

Mantis(?)

night 5

I'll give you all 3 guesses as to why this is the most anti-town post mantis could've made at this point in the game.

I'm guessing because Rubi now probably dies no matter what?

But it could be a gambit by Mantis - that would be brilliant.

UNVOTE:

I think it would be smarter to lynch Rubi tomorrow and lynch whoever we were going to lynch tomorrow today instead, if that's possible.

Still want to lynch Rubicon. If you disagree (as many have already said), I'd appreciate it if you could walk me through the reasoning where it is good to let this slot live for two more days on the chance they are town. That's more than what most scum get. A lot more.

Are we not debating letting her live

one

more day? Am I being stupid again?

- b

mollie you can control my vote since you're essentially confirmed town. I'll take control of it again once I'm motivated, though.

I think mantis's is the only lynch we are going to be able to push through. it is very weird that buldey hasn't put a vote down yet. he kept saying he was going to give me his vote but he never actually did.

that was me

tell me who to vote and stop complaining.

I'm quite sure you're town, and I know you're not stupid, so quit acting that way.

[buldermar]

@ IAI I like your analysis, it coincides with mine. My plan for today ATM is to vote Kuror0 and investigate Remembrance tonight.

VOTE: Kuror0

(Obligatory Amish tell) I disagree with a lot of my predecessor's reads and opinions. I can't explain or defend any of them.

I've read most of the thread, and ALL of the last fifteen pages. I'm doing ISO's and looking things over to see what connections I can come up with. Any and all questions or accusations welcome.

I don't see how Rem is scum.

kuror0 (L-3): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (L-3): kuror0
jon_h61 (L-3): Remembrance
buldermar (L-3): pirate mollie

Not Voting: buldermar, SE-Asians, jon_h61

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is on Thursday, March 30th, at 10:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

I'm banking on Jon = Scum because Rubicon lied about his reasons for replacing out. If he lives tomorrow, we'll know the answer to this question regardless.

I initially thought he was the cop tonight because I'm stupid, which is why I wanted to postpone lynching him for a night. Still, I think we should postpone lynching him another night for the same reason I thought it was a good idea yesterday. I was wondering why my idea was being ignored yesterday; I'm guessing it was because of my misunderstanding.

[buldermar]

I still want rope for kuror0, and I know I have to make a case for him. Being Friday, and having to pack for this unexpected trip to the lake is gonna slow me done, sorry.

I have stuck myself in confirmation bias before, and will try not to this game, but Kuror0 is definitely my main scum suspect.

You have already stuck yourself in confirmation bias by deciding whom to lynch prior to finding reasons to lynching that person.

[buldermar]

If I'm gonna die, how does this association work? If I was scum, wouldn't that kinda clear you? Who should I investigate, since you don't want me to investigate you?

There is no association.

[buldermar]

I'd like mollie's input on this present conversation. I'm pretty sure she's Town, and I'd consider her a Mafia veteran.

I'll take anyone else's opinion into consideration, if they want to give it.

Remembrance, the thing is, I was reading the thread most of the night. IAI's opening posts were really close to what I was leaning toward anyway. Mostly on Kuror0, I was gonna ISO him first, but I'll do you first. I don't know anyone but mollie, and her just briefly. I have no biases or vendettas, so I'll be as objective as possible. It'll have to wait a while, this running in and out and posting has gotten me messed up once before.

I hope there's an unclaimed doc that'll protect me, so that I either catch scum or confirm Town and live to tell about it. And waste scum's NK!

You asserting that you, as a player with no prior experience with other participants of this game, will be able to read players more objectively, i.e., more accurately (because objectivity tantamounts to higher accuracy), looks rather terrible. Why are you trying to lend credence to your own read in this manner?

And how can you have made analysis that coincide with that of IAI when you have only read the last 15 pages and havn't ISO'ed the person you're voting? I also would have thought you'd have noticed at least something you think is worth pointing out after having read 15 pages. It does seem as if you don't really have any analysis at all and that you're avoiding having to account for that by sheeping IAI's vote and asserting that your supposed analysis coincides with IAI's. It's not necessarily a scum-tell, but I don't like it.

There is yet another thing that bothers me about it. While I've been lazy lately in this game, I

have

read more or less every post made. Yet, I have to read IaI's analysis carefully to really understand what he's saying and which assumptions he's making. You somehow managed to understand his analysis well enough to assert that it coincides with yours based on the 15 latest pages? I'm not sure I buy that.

[buldermar]

rememory if you are scum I am going to lord it over nacho forever are you willing to deal with the karma of that

You can lord it over me forever as well as I'm also confident that he's town.

[buldermar]

You can lord it over me if we lose though. Because of how terrible I was this game. *sigh*

Shut up and help us win instead.

I'm suggesting we lynch the Rubi-slot tomorrow if that slot is alive, so who are we lynching today? Kuro is my immediate suggestion, but I want to make sure that IaI couldn't be making a gambit first.

[buldermar]

also I take heed of manits's reads

like I kinda want buldey gone

I'm seriously going to rage if we're going through this again.

[buldermar]

VOTE: jon

mollie, what do you think about lynching the Rubi-slot tomorrow instead?

[buldermar]

2. Remembrance
5. jon_h61 [Replaced Rubicon (Replaced borkjerfkin)]
6. pirate mollie
7. I Am Innocent
9. SE-Asians (Lincolm + SorasAdvent + thenewearth Hydra)
13. kuror0

mollie and Asians are virtually confirmed town to me with Rem up there too, which means two of Rubi-slot, IAI and Kuro are scum.

If I can verify that IAI didn't make a gambit, the scum team will be Rubi-slot + Kuro

Either way, lynching Rubi today over either of Kuro and IAI is terrible, so todays lynch options are IAI and Kuro.

[buldermar]

Reading IAI in ISO, the whole idea of getting top 2 suspects from every player could be a deliberate way to "figure out" who to pretend to have a result on if he was making a gambit.

[buldermar]

Rubicon, claim time

Yes, I got the prod. Will post more tonight - I'm going out for the next few hours.

I'm a night 4 cop.

Could you explain to me again why you asked Rubi to claim?

[buldermar]

Now to see who pushed Rubicon (forcing a claim)

Also you're going to have to explain this to me. Am I wrong in my understanding that you were the one asking Rubicon to claim?

[buldermar]

And I had read a lot of the first hundred pages.

You have not previously pointed this out.

[buldermar]

Good god, Buldermar.

U HAZ PROBLEM?

[buldermar]

That reading was a straight through, not going off on tangents reading, though.

I missed that - sorry.

[buldermar]

I'm kinda lost on what's going on here. I need a lot more work done to catch up. Gonna have to ISO p_m too.

scum-mollie wouldn't bus fate in this manner, so she has to be town.

[buldermar]

OK After reading HD's ISO, IAI is my main scum read, and SE Asians a close second. Why did SE get so much defense early?

IIRC he dropped a "town-tell" that I pointed out back when Wisdom was still around, and I thought it to be impossible for him to have dropped it deliberately. I don't remember the exact posts, I just remember having made a mental note that he's town.

[buldermar]

I'm still waiting for IAI to respond.

[buldermar]

Ok, this is getting silly. Please prod Remembrance, kuror0, pirate mollie and I Am Innocent.

[buldermar]

I am actually entertaining the thought that p-m may have pulled the gambit when she revealed her guilty earlier. I realize p-m's play style is unique, but I'm really starting to wonder about her this game. I'm starting to lean scum on her.

I have played a fair bit with her, and I'm telling you there is no way she is doing this as a gambit.

[buldermar]

Deadline is on Thursday, March 30th, at 10:00 PM EST.

Cool we have almost a year.

- b

[buldermar]

mollie, why do you want to lynch jon now as opposed to tomorrow? I don't see any drawbacks in postponing lynching him a day (assuming that we were otherwise going to lynch him today) - do you?

[buldermar]

mollie, why do you want to lynch jon now as opposed to tomorrow? I don't see any drawbacks in postponing lynching him a day (assuming that we were otherwise going to lynch him today) - do you?

I see it as a waste, because I don't see scum letting me investigate tonight. Why waste a lynch on me as I'm most likely going to be NKd. I don't think they want the chance that I might find a guilty.
I'm still willing to lend Buldemar my vote.

Well I'll gladly accept this offer.

[buldermar]

Rubicon, claim time

Yes, I got the prod. Will post more tonight - I'm going out for the next few hours.

I'm a night 4 cop.

Could you explain to me again why you asked Rubi to claim?

He was at L-1, I did not want an accidental or purposeful hammer*** on a possible N3 doctor.

***And please people, don't act like this doesn't happen, I could go through a number of games where both town and scum hammer without a claim.

I call bullshit on this one.

Point to a single post prior to this in which you point out that you asked him to claim because he was on L-1 and because he could be accidentally hammered?

[buldermar]

Now to see who pushed Rubicon (forcing a claim)

Also you're going to have to explain this to me. Am I wrong in my understanding that you were the one asking Rubicon to claim?

Claims don't happen at L-5, L-4, L-3, or L-2. They happen at L-1. So if those first 4 votes don't happen, no claim happens. Comprendo?

I don't buy it. You were supposedly "looking into who pushed Rubi to claim", yet you were the one asking him to claim. I think you simply forgot that you were the one asking him to claim and claimed to have looked into it to find scum as a way to potentiate a mislynch.

[buldermar]

C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER.

Forgive IAI - he doesn't understand that I'm the only one allowed to make an entire page full of only my posts.

[buldermar]

mollie, why do you want to lynch jon now as opposed to tomorrow? I don't see any drawbacks in postponing lynching him a day (assuming that we were otherwise going to lynch him today) - do you?

I see what you are saying. I have you and rememory as for sure town otherwise I am wandering in the dark. what is your read on IaI and also can tell me what that big combo posting said it was tl;dr for me

I didn't carefully read it either. I saw it was full of self-meta and got demotivated.

I think I may have caught IAI in a scumslip, but we'll see. I'll summarize:

IAI said in a post that he was looking into who "pushed Rubi to claim".
I checked his ISO. Coincidentally,

he

was the one asking Rubi to claim when Rubi was on L-1.
I confronted him with this, and he stated that he, by looking into who pushed Rubi to claim, meant to look into who pushed Rubi to L-1 because being on L-1 automatically justifies asking the person on L-1 to claim, perhaps accidental hammers do happen (this was his excuse, which I'm not convinced I buy).
Right now I'm awaiting that he identify a single post in which he pointed out that he was only asking Rubi to claim because Rubi was on L-1, because I don't trust that he didn't simply forget he was the one pushing Rubi to claim (which would be a scumslip).

I think very likely the two scum will be in Rubi-slot, kuro and IAI. I think we shouldn't lynch Rubi-slot today for reasons already explained, so that makes it an option between IAI and kuro. I still have to look more into kuro as well.

[buldermar]

I'd like to hear what he has to say about it.

Could you specify this?

[buldermar]

Oh, ok. So there is nothing you want my opinion on? I may have misunderstood you then.

[buldermar]

mollie, why do you want to lynch jon now as opposed to tomorrow? I don't see any drawbacks in postponing lynching him a day (assuming that we were otherwise going to lynch him today) - do you?

I see what you are saying. I have you and rememory as for sure town otherwise I am wandering in the dark. what is your read on IaI and also can tell me what that big combo posting said it was tl;dr for me

I didn't carefully read it either. I saw it was full of self-meta and got demotivated.

I think I may have caught IAI in a scumslip, but we'll see. I'll summarize:

IAI said in a post that he was looking into who "pushed Rubi to claim".
I checked his ISO. Coincidentally,

he

was the one asking Rubi to claim when Rubi was on L-1.
I confronted him with this, and he stated that he, by looking into who pushed Rubi to claim, meant to look into who pushed Rubi to L-1 because being on L-1 automatically justifies asking the person on L-1 to claim, perhaps accidental hammers do happen (this was his excuse, which I'm not convinced I buy).
Right now I'm awaiting that he identify a single post in which he pointed out that he was only asking Rubi to claim because Rubi was on L-1, because I don't trust that he didn't simply forget he was the one pushing Rubi to claim (which would be a scumslip).

I think very likely the two scum will be in Rubi-slot, kuro and IAI. I think we shouldn't lynch Rubi-slot today for reasons already explained, so that makes it an option between IAI and kuro. I still have to look more into kuro as well.

okay. I was leaning towards IaI too.

I'm confident that we'll win by lynching through these three people so it really doesn't matter to me who goes first. Still, we should delay Rubi-slot a day for reasons already explained.

[buldermar]

Done.

This will be their last prod. If I have to prod them again for any reason, they will be force-replaced.

Majiffy showing his quadruble m: major-mad-mod-muscles.

[buldermar]

Bulder, here is the post with my plan. You and Remembrance had votes on Rubicon. I suggested "we are best off keeping Rubicon and Mantis from claiming today"

At this point, there were two votes on Rubicon, you and Remembrance. If I am being lynched today because I didn't specify "Please remove votes on these players" well then I guess I am getting lynched for what I didn't think needed to be spelled out.

This is not what I'm pointing out. I'm pointing out that you said you were going to look into "who pushed Rubi to claim" when, in fact, you were the one asking Rubi to claim.

You claim that you wanted to avoid Rubi claiming.

I ask for you to prove this claim by means of quoting a post in which you either a) ask people to unvote or b) mentioned that you only asked Rubi to claim because Rubi was on L-1.

You did neither - ergo, you're full of shit.

[buldermar]

At this point I knew my plan was not being heeded, so for fear of a quickhammer on someone who many people suspected, I asked for a claim of someone who could be a N3 doc.

Prove that the supposed "fear of a quickhammer" can't just be fabricated? From what I see, it looks like a complete bullshit made up on-the-fly kind of excuse for asking Rubi to claim for no good reason.

[buldermar]

Asking for a claim is DIFFERENT than who pushed for a claim. Pushing Rubicon toward a claim were all those against my plan, as well as all those who had votes on him. If you can't see that difference, then let's chat more on this postgame. Don't know how else I can spell that out for you now.

YOU were the only one who explicitly asked Rubi to claim. Nobody else. Nobody mentioned intention of hammering. Literally every player in this game is experienced, which doesn't really support your claim that you did it in fear of a quickhammer. Also, if you indeed did it for a quickhammer, I'd expect that you'd mention it when doing it, which (to my understanding) you did not.

I do see the difference between voting (i.e. pushing), and asking, but I don't see why Rubi was in a position where he needed to claim at the time, nor do I trust that you actually meant "who voted for Rubi" when you initially said you were going to look into who "pushed for a claim". I think that when you said you were looking into "who pushed for a claim", you actually meant "who asked Rubi to claim", but since you were the one doing so, you have made up this distinction between pushing and asking ad hoc.

[buldermar]

Before anyone hammers, ask yourself this:

I asked for top 2's, and other than SE Asians (who provided the list AFTER my HD investigation result was announced), I was on 0 TOP TWO LISTS. So why the gambit like people are suggesting. Why come up with plans that draw attention to me, why try to protect HD and even more, Mantis, an unknown many suspected. What scum motivation was there? Why not lay low, because that is how scum IAI would have played it at 7-2 with nobody suspecting him. Even if Rubicon was my partner, then that means only HD was the last living cop....and based on his top 2 was not going to investigate me. Why not lay low....I obv didn't need town cred (like Kuror suggests) because nobody suspected me!!!

This is the type of backwards self-meta that's utterly useless.

For all I know, you could do the gambit so that you can point out how unlikely it would be for you to do it as scum. IIRC, mollie even pointed out previously that you have done similar stuff in the past. That itself can potentially constitute scum-motivation.

Don't tell me "how scum IAI would have played it" - I trust that you're smart enough to understand why.

[buldermar]

Kuror continues to say he is lazy, insisted on his investigation list, didn't change it when 3 other plans were brought forward, then a town read who already used his power rendering him vanilla the rest of the game, who he says he investigated over his scum read, conveniently was the kill. Then his only scum read today is me, someone he did not suspect until D3 AFTER I STARTED ATTACKING HIM.

To me the two options for todays lynch are you and kuro, so I'm the wrong person you're trying to convince here.

[buldermar]

And you are picking me as the lynch before him. Shame on all of you. Whatever, at this point I am done playing with most of you. Many of you need a lot of work on your game. And Mollie, get over the last game already. Posh is over. I know I fooled you bad, but don't let the paranoia get to you. Read the section above and ask if you really think I'd play that way as scum?

I havn't picked you before him as a lynch - you seem a bit quick to jump to conclusions? I've explicitly said that I don't actually care who gets lynched first as long as we lynch Rubi tomorrow instead of today.

Am I included in the group of people you are done playing with who needs to work on their game? This is an important question for a reason I will not disclose yet.

[buldermar]

Good luck, hope I am right about Kuror, cause if I am not, he is going to be the easy mislynch D5. And don't automatically believe jon D5 either, in LyLo fake scum can go for broke in that situation.

You must really think I'm retarded.

[buldermar]

^ L-2

My feet are getting cold.

UNVOTE: Remembrance

L-3.

If you survive to day 2, what will you do?

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
Wisdom (L-4): Fate, Nachomamma8, pirate mollie
Fate (L-2): Remembrance, SE-Asians, Wisdom, borkjerfkin, buldermar
Human Destroyer (L-6): mantisdreamz

Not Voting: RachMarie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

Also, don't forget this post. This unvote derailed the Fate wagon D1, and once my flip is revealed, the only living people not on Fate are kuror and pirate mollie. so unless you feel both of these are scum, that would mean at least one scum was on the Fate wagon. Why not the person who got cold feet...

If you actually are town and can explain how Rem without a doubt is scum because of that, I'll try to stay open-minded and read it carefully, because he's as firmly placed in my town-pile as they get.

kuror0 (L-3): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (L-1): kuror0, Remembrance, pirate mollie

Not Voting: buldermar, SE-Asians, jon_h61

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is on Thursday, May 30th, at 10:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

Also like the "If you survive to day 2, what will you do?"

....like, give me some justification for letting you live partner....

I don't recall ever having seen scum communicate within the thread in this manner. Have you?

[buldermar]

Damnit Buldermar.

Y u too slow mod?

[buldermar]

y u poast so much

I don't know, but if you figure it out tell me!

[buldermar]

are you voting IaI buldey?

No, but I may be soon.

[buldermar]

I don't know if I can consider IAI+Kuro a possibly scum team, which is kind of important if we're going with the hypothesis that the three scums are in kuro, IAI and rubi-slot.

[buldermar]

I don't know if I can consider IAI+Kuro a possibly scum team, which is kind of important if we're going with the hypothesis that the three scums are in kuro, IAI and rubi-slot.

you think we started off with 4 scum?

and did rememory just agree with you?

I don't understand these questions.

[buldermar]

ATM I'm ready to vote IAI. Who should I investigate? Buldemar gets two votes, since he's my biggest Town read. Buldemar, you better not be scum!

I'll just think about this one, but I don't think it's all that important since you're very likely to get nk'ed.

[buldermar]

I don't know, but if it were me, I'd probably say investigate kuror0.

Investigate the one of IAI/Kuro that we are not lynching in my opinion.

kuror0 (L-2): I Am Innocent, SE-Asians
I Am Innocent (L-1): kuror0, Remembrance, pirate mollie

Not Voting: buldermar, jon_h61

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is on Thursday, May 30th, at 10:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

Before anyone hammers, ask yourself this:

I asked for top 2's, and other than SE Asians (who provided the list AFTER my HD investigation result was announced), I was on 0 TOP TWO LISTS. So why the gambit like people are suggesting. Why come up with plans that draw attention to me, why try to protect HD and even more, Mantis, an unknown many suspected. What scum motivation was there? Why not lay low, because that is how scum IAI would have played it at 7-2 with nobody suspecting him. Even if Rubicon was my partner, then that means only HD was the last living cop....and based on his top 2 was not going to investigate me. Why not lay low....I obv didn't need town cred (like Kuror suggests) because nobody suspected me!!!

This is the type of backwards self-meta that's utterly useless.

For all I know, you could do the gambit so that you can point out how unlikely it would be for you to do it as scum. IIRC, mollie even pointed out previously that you have done similar stuff in the past. That itself can potentially constitute scum-motivation.

Don't tell me "how scum IAI would have played it" - I trust that you're smart enough to understand why.

Forget scum IAI then. Insert scum Anybody in there. Does it make sense as good scum play?

If you can use it as an argument for being town, sure?

[buldermar]

And you are picking me as the lynch before him. Shame on all of you. Whatever, at this point I am done playing with most of you. Many of you need a lot of work on your game. And Mollie, get over the last game already. Posh is over. I know I fooled you bad, but don't let the paranoia get to you. Read the section above and ask if you really think I'd play that way as scum?

I havn't picked you before him as a lynch - you seem a bit quick to jump to conclusions? I've explicitly said that I don't actually care who gets lynched first as long as we lynch Rubi tomorrow instead of today.

Am I included in the group of people you are done playing with who needs to work on their game? This is an important question for a reason I will not disclose yet.

1) Do you think one, and only one of kuror and IAI are scum? If so, this statement is really bad "I've explicitly said that I don't actually care who gets lynched first as long as we lynch Rubi tomorrow instead of today."

2) If you are town, you are included in the group of people I do not care to play with in future games, yes.

I think most likely not both of you are scum.

[buldermar]

are you voting IaI buldey?

Are you scum mollie? Because if so, well played. You seem to be skating by, and your "why am I still alive" comments feel a bit fake. Like you really thought you would die before a N3 cop with no docs???

She doesn't do the type of gambit required for her to be scum this game.

[buldermar]

Buldemar, any feedback on this?

I took note of it, but I think some of it isn't necessarily scummy. For instance, both scum and town wants to look town, so him analyzing things in a way that makes him look town is only natural.

[buldermar]

I'll hammer later tonight if nothing new is going on.

[buldermar]

I don't know if I can consider IAI+Kuro a possibly scum team, which is kind of important if we're going with

the hypothesis that the three scums are in kuro, IAI and rubi-slot

.

you think we started off with 4 scum?

and did rememory just agree with you?

I don't understand these questions.

there are only 2 scum left

Yes?