Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

[Bert]

Vote: Generic

[Bert]

If its gonna be me who is lynched through this nacho, can you promise me something? When I flip town revisit lynching mara.

Cos her whole arguement falls on its arse when I flip town.

But put the vote down, mara and nacho are screwed when I flip town, you guys need to just not let them weasel out of it with excuses.

Your defences need to improve nacho, not your attacks. Cos I'm welcoming the lynch, it's your scumminess that will need covering after my reveal.

But you and mara are scum, so you had better hope you can work that magic of convincing the town it was all my fault (cos I doubt you will ever hold you hand up and admit a mistake, even if it wasnt deliberate and tactical) as I am still waiting in votes for me here.

OK I just read through the Generic-Mara tit for tat. Anywho, it's stuff like this that makes me want to keep my vote on Generic. You're not putting up enough of a fight after people are going after you, and so....

I called Tammy suspicious for attempting to shut down the fight between you and Marangal because this fight of yours have made the game infinitely more interesting.

Yes, Tammy is sooooo suspicious for wanting a fight that has become unproductive to end. It's just so horrible of me to want them to interact with and talk about other people that isn't just rooted in their bickerfests so that town can get a better read on them and then maybe be able to see if there's something in that fight that's worthwhile.

Why didn't you ask me why I wanted the fight to end?

Why did you just tell me what you think I should be thinking instead of seeing where I'm coming from?

Why are you so overdefensive here, Tammy? And the bolded pings my scumdar. Not a very satisfactory response to Nacho's prodding you about "shutting down the fight."

Your reaction actually bothers me.

Still catching up, lovelies. Please stay tuned and remember that I am very ADD-like in posting and jump around a lot. But I'm gonna get into this <3

[Bert]

At the very least, prove your worth. You say you need "4 more votes" but don't you really only need 3?
Either way, AtE is spewing from your posts, at least in my eyes. And, tbh, i'm not sure why people even use it. i mean, isn't it something people only do when grasping at straws. You make it seem like your lynch is inevitable when it is fact not. We still have nearly 2 weeks to sort this out, yet you have already resigned yourself to this fate. It's sad that a newbie like me has to tell you to stop the damn defeatist attitude. I see you have 2 options here.

1. Vote yourself.

2. Cut the crap and actually start scum hunting.

*shakes head at the "vote yourself" option*

I've made my cases,

if you really aren't going to lynch me I will read the cases made by others. But my vote on mara won't be moving unless its to nacho on current game shape.

Defeatist attitude is I have put in my work for this game, have fought and defended on 4 fronts now (peacebringer, shadoweh, mara and nacho) and as mara will testify my post attitude is rarely dictated by alignment but almost always dictated by my mood. I'm borderline autistic, have an autistic son I have to look after and several other current issues bubbling away from MS which aren't important to the game nor are they anyone's business but mine.
I'm edgy, and in one game already I allowed that to turn into nastiness. So I promised myself it wouldn't happen here so I have kept everything game relevant until now.

@ Mod. going V/LA for at least a few days.

The rest get to enjoy the game now without my input which I'm sure has been ruining things by the tone I'm receiving back.

Why do we need to tell you you won't be lynched for you to go read the cases made by others???

But yes I am very edgy too so I can relate (in some fashion) to that. But please do not go away just because you feel everyone's against you or you're against pros.

Heck, I feel that way when I see Tammy posting. I don't think I could lead a successful case against her, ever, even if I really really wanted her dead.

Tammy, my entire arguement about Mara being scum has NOTHING to do with external to me factors. You clearly haven't read my case.
.

I have read your case. I've read both of them more than once, but as that's a large part of it or at least the impression I'm getting,

I'm having trouble gauging either of you.

Why are you having trouble gauging either one of them?? I don't understand

or just click these links. My username is Currently PurplePaws

Spoiler:

Lorwyn Mafia (My first mafia game ever) we were both town
911 mafia (Gen was mod-killed D1 though >.>)
Generic's Jester game
Game we were both town in, I was Friendly Neighbor one-shot.
I was scum this game, and fairly powerful.
Gen was poisoner, I was Town JoAT
TAM's Deathy that we all hate... we were both cops
Gen Scum, Mara-town
we were both town here
I'm scum, generic's town

Who was this to? The links don't let you in unless you log-in and are registered...

[Bert]

Generic isn't town Desp and I havn't been wrong on a scum-gen Read in the 10+ games I have had with him.

Your confidence is noted.

Unvote

Trolling is a pretty good motive imo. I agree Empire hasn't busted out his meta-reel, but why does it matter this early? Empire isn't here, sitting on thumbs waiting for him would be scummier. I should probably read Red Wedding better, I only read you on the day you got lynched.

I also don't think voting someone and encouraging bandwagoning is the best way to suck up to someone.

I want you to answer me on something. Who has been sucking up to who in this game? (be as detailed as possible)

I'm caught up now but I'm getting used to people's names, and there are a few people I don't even remember after reading the game. =]

There's that nagging feeling in the back of my mind to look at Peacebringer (sp) closely. More of a gut instinct to check him/her out closely.

[Bert]

EBWOP: I also don't like Gaiden. I just looked back and he/she has a completed game as scum where he was given a newb pass. Anyways...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29901

Curious to see what you all think of him, given his lack of sample size, etc., etc.

But #188 advising a self-vote is so freakin suspicious. Later y'all lovelies!

[Bert]

And it was a stupid push. Extended bickerfests that end up not being productive are bad for town. They give scum a place to hide, make people take sides for non alignment based reasons, and can cause apathy in town. All bad for town. Trying to paint me as suspicious for wanting it to come to an end because it was becoming unproductive struck me as really off. It still does.

*shrug* Kay then. They make people take sides for non alignment based reasons?? How so...

I don't know why anyone would ever want me dead. I'm a fucking sweetheart.

Innocent blah-blah - not buying it. Don't you talk to me like that. Tell that "I'M A SWEETIE PIE" to the people in 501 Stacking the Deck. Puh-leez. I don't trust you with a ten-foot pole.

I don't have the benefit of knowing their alignments. Both of them seem like they believe what they're saying, which makes it difficult to tell if one of them is bsing.

Then which one is more likely (right now, in your current frame of mind) to be BSing? Surely you can answer that?

[Bert]

I don't like Shadoweh so far

what do you all think of him/her?

[Bert]

Scum generally like when town are demoralized because it makes them play worse, so I find peptalks a decent towntell.
Timing I don't have a grip on yet, but I'll try and find a better chunk of time tomorrow.

For some reason I think that town talk about their reading success rate on a given player more often than scum, but maybe that's crazy.

I sound like scum so far don't I >_>

I guess my town not fully engaged game is kinda similar to my scumgame.
Anyhow I'll make myself useful soon

I actually thought you were a newb after reading your post, and then I realized you aren't.

Why are you admitting to us that your town game when you're not IN IT can be similar to your scumgame. You're telling us this why? Why should we spare you

[Bert]

This game started off weird for me tbh. I don't care about voting for the sake of voting, I'd rather pursue the right targets. If I put a vote down seriously you'll know I think that person is scum.

And you believe your votes are always for the pursuit of the "right targets"?

Also, can people please stop using hypocrisy as a scumtell? It's not even remotely close to being one given that people are far less likely to be objective/impartial about their own actions than they are about other people's.

Also also, Desperado's town bloc looks solid except I'd swap Generic for Shadoweh.

Also also also, I was gonna neatly lay out why you guys should move over to Gaiden but Desperado beat me to it.

P-edit: Alright, well, I have him scheduled for a meta dive when I get more time because I personally found him suspicious in how he's constructed his posts against Marangal/Nacho in that way where he doesn't seem at all curious about their alignments but just wants to make them look as bad as possible to get them strung up. But I have a feeling this might be more of a playstyle or a site meta language barrier issue given that he plays mostly off-site in places like MTGS so I want to look into his games here to compare how he plays as both alignments.

Huh? Have you done this meta-dive yet that you just pretty much promised us?

"YALL SHOULD MOVE TO GAIDEN, HE'S ON MY SCUMLIST, but you know maybe you shouldn't because I need to compare how he/she is as both alignments"

Please do better than this....

[Bert]

@Bert:

You have a lot of suspects, but is there anyone you are reading as town? If so, who?

Give me 1 more day to get a feel/rhythm for everyone. I have gone over the game a few times, but not enough yet. It's like walking into a dead conversation, and you know, you feeling like they have already been through a war and you're walking in all innocent.

That's how I feel.

Tammy and Mara are town town town. Everyone else I'm on the fence about...give me one more day.

[Bert]

EBWOP: I'm not a fan of how Generic claimed - timing, etc., screamed scum scum scum - but that last post #282...meh the "discussing my personal life, lost all enjoyment part" is...meh. Not sure.

The Mara-Generic thing as I've been reconsidering this morning, it just looks like a ton of meta-noise. And the fact is I have not accessed whatever databank they are drawing from. I'm actually agreeable with Tammy now that the two playing against each other kinda distracts from the game.

It is best summed up like this:

Mara: "IM SOOOO SURE YOURE SCUM, YOURE SCUM"

Generic: "Im the victim, get offa me"

[Bert]

Unvote

No.

What are your town/scum reads?

[Bert]

Tammy, whenever you get a chance, would like to hear your thoughts on Bert specifically.

Woah, woah. Why are you asking Tammy about me? Why don't you make some of your own comments first.

Could you elaborate on why the claim was scummy?

He was at lynch -3. Not lynch -2. Not lynch -1. Lynch -3. And he was not obligated to claim under the circumstances.

[Bert]

EBWOP: Generic, since you're here and back, I hope you put together your best possible outlined case against Nacho, as you voted for him an hour ago but quickly rescinded your vote.

[Bert]

Nacho, love, please come reach out to Pappa.

I don't feel the love yet.

Vote: Nachomamma

[Bert]

Mara do you think Nacho is town here

[Bert]

Yes

Nacho is definitely town.

UNVOTE:

K

[Bert]

Tammy, whenever you get a chance, would like to hear your thoughts on Bert specifically.

Don't know how to read Bert. He kinda seems similar to 501 in tone, but since he replaced out early I didn't get a chance to see what his town game really looks like. I believe he plays a lot with nacho, so he'd be a better person to ask.

I did like the paranoia he threw at me immediately upon entering. However, I did let soo slip by me in mafia.raptured partially for this because I wrote it off as town for a little while, but Bert's felt more natural. I don't know what I did to erase that paranoia though.

What do you mean you don't know how to read me? Do you have ANY sort of read or not...

What I did was I decided to look at 501 again and then look at your play here. I also don't like the "I let X get by with this, therefore this qualifies me to make this paranoia overall a null tell for Y. Or MAYBE not, I'll look back later to give myself options to lynch Bert or not Lynch and just NOT give ANY read on Bert now" Why are you even talking about this then?

And yes, I hydra with Nacho and have played quite a few of my completed games with him.

@Bert: Why did you vote Nacho and unvote Nacho without him having posted?

Initially I was going to vote Nacho and make him reach out to me, but I decided to ask Mara who usually has solid reads as town (and who has extensive experience with Nacho like I do). People don't usually listen to Mara when she has solid reads as town, but I will because I believe in her. I typically am not good at reading Nacho.

[Bert]

EBWOP: My GUT from this game alone, and from looking back at 501, is that you are TOWN for now. Especially after you went "On Night 1 I can dispel your paranoia when I die" and stuff like that

IT read genuine to me. However, if Nacho is town here, hopefully he can catch you if you're scum and I'm wrong (before it's too late)

GUT from lots of games with Mara is that Mara is town here.

[Bert]

Tammy I get other people feeling weird to you but me? Of the MS people, you probably know my play literally better than anyone else on the site. So I want to know what exactly is off with you here. I'm not interested in dealing with Yoloville type paranoia from you especially on Day 1.

Empire I'm just having a really weird day today, please just cut me a little slack.

A polite way of telling someone to get off your case...

I saw this in 501 too. "GUYS I GOT A JOB SORRY IVE BEEN SO BUSY, IM GONNA READ UP NOW" and give you lots of lovely words

Save it. Wish you the best with your job and hope your relocating is going well, but srsly, in the context of the game that's a suspicious response to Empire reaching out and asking you a simple question. Why not just answer it

[Bert]

EBWOP: What I'm trying to say is I've seen enough of scum using "SORRY, please get off me, lay off, etc., etc., IM OVERGAMED or I'm SOOOO stressed out, etc." to evade questions

Even Mala in my last game did that..."LAY OFF (to put it mildly) Im already going through enough with my current games and B and C and etc. etc."

You're on a short leash.

[Bert]

Kay then.

My initial gut reads are still you and Mara are town and everyone else I am still working on parsing out what my feelings are. I'm gonna argue with people and annoy people and feel people out that way, help me get engaged

Have you been a meta-girl thus far in this game

[Bert]

Tammy, whenever you get a chance, would like to hear your thoughts on Bert specifically.

Woah, woah. Why are you asking Tammy about me? Why don't you make some of your own comments first.

Could you elaborate on why the claim was scummy?

He was at lynch -3. Not lynch -2. Not lynch -1. Lynch -3. And he was not obligated to claim under the circumstances.

I get that it's unorthodox, but why is it scummy? What is the scum motivation behind it?

Scum motivation - trying to sound GENUINE. "Hi, I'm just a Vanilla. I give up, and it's only lynch -3, but you know guys I totally feel like today I am the lynch. please spare me. here's my claim."

For a vastly experienced player, heck, one that has a vast experience in mafia (whether it be on here or outside the site), this kind of thing just rings up all kinds of bells.

And then there's the self-vote. "I VOTE MYSELF" and then a few minutes after a little mercy/room given, he quickly rescinds the self-vote and quickly goes back to voting Nachomamma.

I find myself wondering if it's an act

[Bert]

Not voting you because Im not sure about you

Also, I've seen outbursts like yours come from scum too

So I am biding my time, no hurry, looking from all angles

[Bert]

I am not sure about you because of your self-defeatist tone about how you shouldn't be lynched and that the cases on you are BS.

I apologize for being ornery. I never brought up or referenced your home life, so I don't even know how that topic sprang up out of nowhere. Let's move on, seriously.

If you're not enjoying this game at all, you're free to replace out whenever you think it wise

[Bert]

^Wow, talk about being wildly confident (too confident almost) that Generic is town and was obviously just a VT from the beginning...
*shrug*

[Bert]

The first thing I see is that Bert doesn't like me either. Psychic puppy. post #275 is the same kind of iioa noise as earlier on this page. 'timing etc scream scum' but 'personal life not sure'. You even come to the realization the argument is a waste of time, so why do you keep coming back to it if it's just letting you repeat the same thing over and over? If you don't want to vote Generic and don't want the pile-on to continue

YOU SHOULDN'T BE ENCOURAGING IT BY DREDGING IT UP AGAIN.

I didn't like the paranoia about Empire asking Tammy about Bert either actually.

It's not the first time this game Empire has done this, so caring when it's about you is overdefensive. You have a town read on Tammy, what were you afraid she was going to say?
Pfft I guess you were since you freaked out at her not calling you town. Suddenly you're not sure how you feel about Tammy after all! (

maybe she can't read you bcause you're scum

)

1) I wanted Empire to give original opinions. What would be ACCEPTABLE and less pingy to my scumdar is: "I believe Bert is so-and-so (opinion). What do you think, Tammy?" I wanted Empire to bring something to the table that hasn't been brought up before.

2) Whether you like it or not, the tit for tat between Mara and Generic has comprised the bulk of the arguments this game. We can't pretend it never happened. We can look back, disregarding the personal issue stuff, and judge for ourselves who is town and who isn't in that exchange. The exchange we will move forward from, but it will not be forgotten.

3) Haha "maybe she can't read you because you're scum" HAHAHAHAHA what kind of logic is that...I'm not unreadable

Cut: Wow, it is almost like I have been saying from the star of this fight that Generic is town. Maybe Shadoweh is smart. a little TOO SMART. I would have guessed he was VT before he claimed. Go back and read his attitude, then tell me I'm wrong instead of trying to throw more ~*~wild paranoia~*~ my way.

You are a feisty one. We can look back at this later

Best of all despite you firing off questions and harrassing Tammy, you don't appear to have any suspects. Did you forget about Peacebringer? You thought Gaiden looked scummy, why are you suspicious of Empire for agreeing with a case on him? The only person you're consistently suspicious of is Empire actually, which is coincidentally someone you haven't voted.

Did you miss me telling you guys several times, quite clearly, that I am taking my time and getting a feel for the game? The reason I don't replace into a game that is decently underway (20+ full pages) is that I don't get quite the same experience without having interacted with the game from the get-go. I have tried twice to replace into 20+ page games and flaked both times. (Open 505 is a great example of when I couldn't catch up because too much had been going on that I couldn't relate to, due to not having gone through the experience and interacted for those first 25 pages). 10 pages is alright, and just right for me to replace into. Once I play with you all for a few days at minimum, I can form more solid reads.

Please be patient. (hahaha, did I just say "patient")

[Bert]

EBWOP: Oh, and I'm working on deciphering what Nacho just said and answering his question, but yes I just read Nacho's posts and Nacho is TOWN TOWN TOWN. All town vibes from those posts from the past 24 hours. Don't ever touch him

[Bert]

Nacho, love, please come reach out to Pappa.

I don't feel the love yet.

Vote: Nachomamma

What do you think of Desperado?

Yeah, I've been having a very hard time reading people this game. Thor's debates in my last newbie game were better than this.

If you can't read people, sheep me until you can.

1) Don't know this player (Desperado) well. Null, but I like how he made a town block on page 7 or so. Posts don't have me leaning one way or another just yet. Llamarble is leaning town but seems like easy lynchbait. Shadoweh now leaning town too for going after me like that...like his feisty attitude in that post. I'm gonna have to use PoE in this game to find scum me thinks, at least until I get more acquainted. Sigh.

2) Wow, Garantula, Nacho just gave some great advice with regard to sheeping.

[Bert]

1) I wanted Empire to give original opinions. What would be ACCEPTABLE and less pingy to my scumdar is: "I believe Bert is so-and-so (opinion). What do you think, Tammy?" I wanted Empire to bring something to the table that hasn't been brought up before.

Forgot to respond to this. The reason I didn't out my opinion along with the question is because I did not want to influence Tammy's answer to the question. Like I said, the question was more about trying to solidify my read on her than it was about you. If you want original opinions from me, can you wait until tonight? Sometimes, it just takes me a while to get into a game especially when my last completed game was something like 3 months ago.

I like this response. And I understand how hard getting into a game can be.

2) Wow, Garantula, Nacho just gave some great advice with regard to sheeping.

How do you figure?

Because I sheep my strongest townread if I can't get any solid reads on anyone. Nacho as town has solid reads; I believe Nacho is town here; ergo...

Generic, what do you think of Desperado?

Why is your vote parked on someone who acts like I have in some of our past games

[Bert]

Generic is town here.

Nacho is town.

Gaiden is scum

Those are my guranteed reads of awesome

VOTE: gaiden

Who are you and why do you make such suspicious claims of town/scum. A is scum. B is town. Are you reading me a shopping list?

Who is your main if you don't mind sharing

And also are you trying to let us not have access to your meta by hiding behind some alt?

I haven't played any games with you. My main account has. This is this accounts first game

Who

who are you

[Bert]

Understood, dah'lin.

[Bert]

Gosh Tammy, you're being so paranoid about what others think of you, or rather what others "should" think of you

Also I think both of you Empire and Tammy are severely underestimating your own scum games

Stop selling yourselves short, geez louise

unvote,

crawling in a corner... someone let me know when the metanonsense stops and give me a kick

please stop hiding, that is really scummy, your last two posts

Would you like to be voted?

[Bert]

unvote,

crawling in a corner... someone let me know when the metanonsense stops and give me a kick

Oh shush

OK, Bert's first scumread for the game. Wow Bert why are you so slow. OK I did not like Peacebringer but I couldn't point my finger on why.

Anywho...

we look to be getting a good dual run up now with generic and gaiden...
welcome bert...

You keep giving us recaps and not really adding anything new.

I believe he is being overly defensive and reactive for the circumstances.

I agree. Don't really think he needs to claim though.

Then you agree with what other people are saying.

also super defensive over a post that is fishing... yup, comfortable wtih the generic vote.

Your vote has been parked on Generic pretty much for the entire duration of the game. I asked Nacho this, and now I'm asking you - where's the oomph or gumption behind your votes or play in this game so far... You're just taking a seat in the corner and watching all this meta stuff play out, and then you complain about "OH MY GOD IM GONNA COME BACK WHEN THIS IS ALL OVER"

Meta's part of the game. Deal with it.

I've been searching this game for scumreads over the past day or so, and I'm leaning scum on you. Gut doesn't like you; your posts don't really convince my brain otherwise. I've been searching for some semblance of content or scumhunting in your play. I don't see it. I also upon several re-reads/skims didn't remember a thing about you other than not liking you. That is a problem. Let's get you talking.

VOTE: Peacebringer

[Bert]

You were pretty much a universal townread in 501 for most players for most of the game.

Heck, you just said the current Paragon had you as town throughout most of the game. That should say something about your scumgame.

Anyhow, do you think Empire is town or not

Y/N

because all of this seems wishy-washy with how you are still feeling each other out

or is this still all a work in progress?



Bert is amused but confuzzled

[Bert]

Bert, I come from another place and another style of play. I left mafiascum in 2006. I do not play mafiascum style. What you saw with generic is my style of play. I will pick up on reactions and can lock in. I watch and observe a lot. It is what I do. I locked in on generic in reading the game from day 1 and he stood out to me. Nothing else has as of yet. I could never do some of the stuff others do as my brain does not work that way. Where I play, day one is largely schtick, gets a couple of runups. Make a decision on who to lynch and move on with ore information. My reaction for generic was really overly strong one for me as well on a day one. But if you run me up for playing differently, so be it. It is what it is. I am going to try real hard to ride through rough spots and my reactions. Sometimes though I just post what I think (See my title, that hasn't changed any, I am who I am.)

But... wait a minute there...



you have tunneled generic the whole game. You have failed to mention nearly everyone else outside of the context of Generic

Who are your scumreads? (and townreads, if any, if you are willing to DIVULGE any at this time). If you aren't willing to be open about it, why conceal

[Bert]

Holy...

Wow Empire, that's the most eye-friendly wall Ive ever laid eyes on

And your thought process is so easy to follow and clear. Holy townness...

[Bert]

Tammy, Empire, I know you're busy fighting but you both have a town read on Bert, could you please acknowledge my case and/or deny it, I don't think what he's posted is 'solid' and PB is an easy target from the way people have been beating on his style. I also note he's taken back any bad thoughts about Empire because Empire writes like a king.

I'd rather try to lynch a weirdo over wallposts anyday.

Nacho already gave his opinion, but I think when people hang out too much they can get caught up in meta tells instead of plain mafia reading.

Hello

I liked Empire's post because I really like his thoughts and it reads as GENUINE AS HECK, like CAN'T BE FAKED

Also, "you would rather be trying to lynch a weirdo over wallposts?" Where does that come from, and how is this a townie mindset AT ALL? Mind explaining that to me...

If you lynch weirdos over wallposts anyday, I have a serious problem with the way you play the game.

Meta tells ARE PART of mafia reading. Your points here are sketchy at best. Nacho assuaged me about you, but heck no I do not like this post at all.

[Bert]

Nacho, bert, I really don't like these PB votes.

Why don't you like how I am bringing some attention to him/her? He has been getting away scratch-free for the majority of the game, and might as well get a better read on this guy

PB is an easy target from the way people have been beating on his style.

Also @Shadoweh: how is PB an easy target? He/she is a player who obviously has experience with mafia and has his own way of playing the game. calling him/her is not advantageous in what way, exactly? I don't recall people other than me "beating up on his style." That seems a tad far-fetched, dontcha think?

[Bert]

EBWOP: *calling out him/her

Either way, I'm gonna put my vote where my mouth is

VOTE: Shadoweh

Let's go, let's start arguing, Ms. Bert detractor

[Bert]

Oh, the Ms. Bert Detractor is directed at Shadoweh.

Do you feel you have been an easy target this game? If so, who do you think is using you as an easy target - apart from myself? Mind giving me your perspective on that...

[Bert]

The Purple Shoe person seems to be avoiding people who are reaching out to him/her. That's definitely leaning gut scum.

That sequence with Nacho asking him/her about not having played with him/her except on a main...

that Purple person seemed dodgy and uncomfortable with the question. and the response was.... well less than I expected. It's like he/she is avoiding interactions or something. I mean what is up with that

Gaiden on the other hand is as sure of a bet for a good D1 lynch that has a great non-zero chance of turning up scum.... escpecially after the case there is after reading the cases on him/her, but I have yet to recall hearing Nacho comment enough on the matter. I am also wondering why Nacho's vote is not there. Nacho maybe when you come back you can remind me what you think of Gaiden at THIS point in time. Not before today, not in the past, not conjecture. Opinion, today, now. I mean is Gaiden avoiding this game or what, it does not make sense

Gonna mow the lawn now brb

ALL OF YE LURKERS HAFTA GET BACK HERE NOW

Afraid of the pros here to read you??? HAVE SOME GUTS

[Bert]

I FINALLY READ THE GAME KNOWING WHO EVERYONE IS

EVEN RVS MADE SENSE I AM SO PROUD, NACHO YOU SHOULD GIVE ME A PAT

/PAT here I will do it myself

......

I must admit, PB

your passiveness and wait-and-see approach are throwing me off

Empire, as promised, I have a few not-solid but developing reads:

Without a Doubt Town: <Generic> How outright dangerously personal he went after the pressure applied - suggests town, after lots of back-and-forth and prodding of Generic over the past few days. Generic, you have to understand that you've had a few successful scum games here. People ARE going to go after you, to make sure you aren't getting away as scum. Especially in this game, with rather strong players who are looking pretty town so far. You know that you have gotten away as scum, so what is throwing me off is that you are cracking under the pressure. But I believe you are town and I believe that the reactions they got from prodding you are genuine, emotional, EMOTIONAL, and town.

Pretty Town: <Nacho, Tammy, Mara> All first and foremost GUT

Nacho, I feel you are reaching out to me. I feel you are doing townie things, and this is the 2nd game in a row where there is no doubt in my mind you are town (last one was 514 Masons and Monks). Usually, there is a lot of hesitation for me when I'm with you, but my gut is swinging TRUST NACHO, so I am going that route. Mara, the way you are going after your mentor just screams town. And how you are reaching, reaching, reaching.... Tammy I am trusting you and I hope I do not regret it. You're probably the least confident of my "pretty town" reads, but I am counting on Nacho and Empire (if they are indeed town) to warn us if you start having and weird reactions/reads spewed forth to us.

Leaning Town: <Empire, PeaceBringer> Empire is very articulate and detailed, and I must say in the back of my mind, farther to the back, my brain tells me to watch out in case Empire is deceiving us and quite devious as a player.

PB - I voted you to see how you would react, and so far the response I am satisfied with. But I want to see what you can do on D2. So far on D1 you're just there, sorta, and if you can pick up your game like you say you can once you develop more reads as this game goes on, I can see you becoming a strong townread and a big threat.

Null/confused about my read: <Garantula, Shadoweh> TheGarantula, I have a little experience with you, but that was in my early times here in MS when I was very very lost (and I still am lost). I am worried you are getting the solid noobtown pass from others, as evidenced by some posts lately. I don't know whether you are town yet, but I hope you catch up and give us something to work with too. So far, I feel OK about you. Not great, not bad, just OK. I don't want it to be that way. This may not be a game with Thor and lots of interesting debates or whatever you're missing, but you're being just a tad passive. Not enough weight in your posts. That's the feeling I get. So yes very null but IDK yet.

Shadoweh, I am reaching out to you. I am watching you very carefully with your responses. I love circle-jerking, I do it all the time, I may not get very good reads, but I am very much a gut/feeling player, which gets me in a lotta trouble sometimes. Your paranoia about me is very "meh" *shrug* Your air of superiority sorta is getting on my nerves, but I think this is one of those "ask me later, to be continued" reads as I interact with you more. I would like to pressure you more and get you to talk about everyone. But the fact that you are reaching out to others about me is sorta town.

Null-scum <Purple Shoe (sp?)>

Purple: That response to Nacho reaching out to you "no, I HAVENT PLAYED WITH YOU NACHO, why do you ask?" is SOOOOO timid. And then the next response of yours "I don't care if you weren't. This is this account. I answered as this account." WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE? Until you answer, I am very confused.

Leaning Scum: <SXTLHGaiden, Llamarble>

Gaiden: I am not sure it's just apathy or what, but you are avoiding interacting with the game. You're making me paranoid with your lurker-scum antics. Cut it out if you're town. I'm willing to vote you if the deadilne comes to that. Your sole posts, as pointed out, have been scummy and you haven't contributed at all. That worries me. I don't have time to look back or quote, as I am about to head out, but PLEASE if you are town keep this in mind and try to give us something to work with... you're goign to end up being lynchbait later on, if not now, if you are town and don't step it up. You're not getting a newb pass this game like you got in your past newbie, and yes I have heard of you and this play so far is just not gonna fly, okay

Llamarble: I have thought about you a lot, and then someone (Tammy or Empire?) mentioned you being a rather experienced player. Why are you coasting today, and that vote on Desperado is just SHEEP central. Why haven't you formed your own reads. You're here, you should be able to catch up in the game's early stages. Nacho, why does this person's vote on Desperado lead you to think Llamarble is not worth touching? Is this guy usually really useful in all town alignments?

Sorry if it looks like I threw up on the page - I don't usually post walls (damn Nacho, this is your fault) - and I didn't really have time to go back and quote stuff.

[Bert]

EBWOP: I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that one of <Tammy, Empire> may be scum. Am I just paranoid or what. Dangit.

[Bert]

I'm curious, how have you heard of me?

Mini 1481 which is now COMPLETED

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30346

*points to sig*

Do you remember Gaiden?

Oh fuck, Gaiden. Well the issue here, Sakura, is that nobody suspected Gaiden, while everyone jumps on Aqua. Thats my problem

I suspected Gaiden from the dead qt...

I just looked at Gaiden in 1404 after you all mentioned newb passes. Oh god, the graveyard QT...

I will now dissociate myself from Newbie 1404. I fucking led 2 mislynch wagons and contributed to another one.

In hindsight, it should have tipped me off that Gaiden wasnt doing anything in mylo...

But Saki was too scummy :/

Anyway I've never completed a game with TNE before, so hownis he scum this time and what is town TNE? His wiki says he doesnt have meta.

[Bert]

EBWOP: Read the "GAIDEN WASN'T DOING ANYTHING IN MYLO" comments

That should say something about your play in this game.

You are doing just that... nothing.

[Bert]

And you expect that to work for you again this game... why?

Why are you employing that same tactic in this game

"watch how things play out" is freakin scummy. You're not from a past era like Mr. PB here. What's your excuse

[Bert]

Also, Mr. Gaiden, reads or opinions on ANYONE please.

Bueller?? Bueller?

[Bert]

Learn how to read her reactions to getting pushed as scum versus her reactions to getting pushed as town.
Find random points to properly push her as scum, and if her reaction isn't as poignant to you as it is to me, then declare her scum based on meta. You only need to read her correctly once, and then you can link to that correct game as added push to get her lynched easily in future games. As a bonus, push her whenever your townread gets stale and she'll give you that poignant reaction again as scum.

empire meta diving will have to wait tomorrow; on limited time today so no legwork for me.

Love,

So half of me wants Tammy and Empire to both die and expects one of them to flip scum,

because I think all of Empire's "TAMMY YOU SHOULD READ ME AS TOWN" plus Tammy's "EMPIRE YOU SHOULD READ ME AS TOWN, DISTANCE DISTANCE DISTANCE" is like playing mind games with my head

and they are so eloquent and detailed and rhetorical yada-yada-yada. I want them both outta here, they are making me really paranoid. They can talk us new-ish players outta anything, and it's like going against freakin pros.

The other half of me tells me I will learn a lot from this game by watching all these solid players here scumhunt, and to calm down and realize that not all games will have Tammy and Empire as both scum or one of them as scum. Nacho and Mara I'm hoping you catch them. I look forward to your meta-diving.

At some point, one of them is going to be alive past their expiration date and I won't know whatta do. They'll bring forth the "OH IM TIRED OF THIS TRASH, DONT YOU CALL ME OUT AS SCUM FOR BEING ALIVE ON DAY 5, SEE X and Y GAME"

What should we do when that time comes? Keep pushing random things and calling them out based on "meta" or other reasons? This is my first game with both of them, so I can't say I've figured either of them out before. You're going to be dead sooner or later (really soon ) as well as evidenced by our non-hydra games in the past, so I shall ask you early before it's too late



BOOM that's my random Bert post for the night.

BOOM

[Bert]

Wow. You can't possibly be bad enough to misunderstand I was speaking from the perspective of looking for mislynches there and not declaring my hate of weirdos and fear of anyone who posts more then a paragraph. I bet you're still not voting me you sniping little chicken hound.

Also here's a thought about UNFAKEABLEWALLPOSTS.EXE Empire's analysis is based on examining how people acted in other games, I'm not sure if he's ever honestly tried to but if there was anything that could be faked it would be a wall that tells you a bunch of townies are acting like their town selves and a bunch of people he doesn't have meta on and that people hate are acting scummy. I honestly believe you just saw a huge wall post and went "WOW LOOK AT ALL THOSE WORDS! IT MUST LOOK LIKE TOWN!" because no one ever reads them.

I actually read every word of the walls in this game. Several times, believe it or not. And I digested it all. If you look at #476 before this, I am starting to doubt Tammy/Empire because paranoia is setting in. QUIZ ME ON IT.

I've spent a lot of time in this game, because I really like a few of the players in this game and I'm actually very engaged/interested.

Go ahead, test me.

You should be clear about what you're talking about then, rather than throwing around words like "you sniping little chicken hound"

How is that going to help your case any? Name-calling is pretty useless here in the way you used it.

And I'm winning, and you might be too, you know why? Because I'm getting some really passive-aggressive reactions out of you. That's what I want. I treasure these aggressive retorts with SWEETness.

"how can I possibly be bad enough to misunderstand something?" - that's a TERRIBLE response. You explain it, rather than lash out. That speaks volumes about how you choose to respond to accusations, whether they are baseless or not. In fact, the only thing that I like about your post is that you look like you are actually putting some weight in your posts and speaking back, and we are seeing just how true/fake your emotions are. And add to that, the fact that you're resorting to "name-calling (chicken hound)" and "how bad can you possibly be" in your defense. That doesn't speak well of you and your prospects on D1.

[Bert]

EBWOP: Your response is so aggressive, are you feeling helpless or something

because you're sounding vulnerable

HUH?

[Bert]

Oh, and I found a GIF for you



If you're scum, WE GONNA GET YOU

BE AFRAID, SCUMBAG

[Bert]

You're also not the first person to mention it, the mafia tides are high in possibility of a lynch in his direction.

No, the mafia tides are not high in possibility of a lynch in his direction. Where exactly are the votes on PB? Oh right, they're mostly non-existent.

Also concentrating on Purple Shoe avoiding meta questions instead of how they're avoiding the game as a whole is bad. People make alts to escape meta, don't they? It's not surprising they'd avoid answering. Bad lynch reason that tries to make everything a person's done sound super paranoid bad, like everything else you've said this game. And holy shit your reasoning for being willing to vote Gaiden.

Nacho has asked you this, and you have NOT answered. What do you think of his/her (Purple's) lying in response to Nacho's question about having played with him? And you realize there are strong players, and also players that know who Purple is but aren't telling me. That player is lurking and is coasting and we are actively LETTING that happen and permitting it.

Cut: Choke harder smartass, MY VOTE IS THE HAMMER THAT WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS. If you really thought I was saying I would never lynch someone wallposting in the same paragraph where I explain how a wallpost could be faked by scum you must be something awful.

Flail harder. That's all noise. Is that the best you can do?

Rhetorical questions deserve rhetorical answers. I'm ignoring you because I think he's scum. My gut will not rest until it has satisfaction.

This is obviously not addressed to me, and is in response to Nacho's question regarding his read on me and why you're ignoring it. See, you're not being clear with your posts. Not crystal clear at all. And you wonder why you are misunderstood sometimes. *shrug* Well if you're waiting for satisfaction, I'm not going to hold up a mirror for you to see how unlikely that looks for you at this time, considering the way you are responding to me. Am I your outlet so you don't have to focus on other scumreads at this time? How's your plea for my lynch going? Oh wait, it's going nowhere. And I am totally mind-blown that your case on me isn't inspiring any votes or gathering any steam.

1) Your case is mostly hurling smart remarks that revolve around "you're bad/terrible" and "scum go after such "easy" targets." Tell me that's not true? Go ahead. I can go "yeah, well my gut won't rest until it has its satisfaction, so I'm gonna TOTALLY DISREGARD what everyone's telling me about another player." Like outlandish stubbornness is helpful at this point. I hope this makes you feel angry because then we get more reactions out of you. FOR THE WIN.

Totally MIND BLOWN and thrilled that you are taking the bait and really going after me. Love it, love it, love it. Keep it up! I am MIND BLOWN.

Supporting a lynch on someone because they have a case on them is probably the laziest reasoning I've ever seen. I can't state enough how much I hate this Close Enough reasoning. I'm reading your expounding on this in 434 and it still comes down to Lurking + Other People.

Lazy? That's subjective. More realistic. Hey, I'm always an easy lynch target. Does that make your reasoning lazy too? Watch you ignore this question and then call out Tammy again for not answering ONE of your questions.

Ha. I laugh with you and raise an eyebrow. <333 With love.

I am crying after responding to your post.



PSYCHE! I love talking at ya', trooper. GET ON YOUR KNEES and respond.

[Bert]

remains to be seen, just gauging the exchange. I recognize the fishing, am aware he knows he fishes. I don' t know yet if he is trying to be true to self for others or being genuine.

Haha. You are so unsure that you are totally not one way or the other. :/ That gives me a strange feeling.

You must be joking. You have defenders to your left and right, maybe you're an easy target sometimes but today is not that day.

^ Says the one who is having a dandy time attacking me left and right. How is that not an easy target?

Easy Target means EASY to ATTACK and ACCUSE AS SCUMMY. Have you considered that people may be defending me because I am such an easy target and they don't want to see me mislynched?

Easy Target doesn't mean having no defenders.

My case is that all your suspicions are either without attaching your own reasoning towards scumminess or that you write what a person is like and add "AND THAT';S SCUMMY" beside it. Kind of like what you're doing in response to me, except you're just quoting things I'm saying and adding LOL to the end of them. Also,

Nacho is not everyone.

He may be Super High School Level Innocent Child this game but that doesn't mean he's right.

Umm. Empire and Tammy have town-reads on me (thus far). Nacho's not the only one. You didn't mention the others who are reading me as town either. What gives?

Kind of like what you're doing in response to me, except you're just quoting things I'm saying and adding LOL to the end of them.

I am doing more than laughing at your posts. Way to misrep. Are you kidding me

[Bert]

And focusing on multiple people decreases the chance you'll actually get through on the lynch you want.

I don't like this excuse for not giving out reads of displaying a broader focus (i.e. more than one scumread). Just because you think I'm scum doesn't mean you're exempt from listing ANY other scumreads. This just makes it easier for you to switch from one to another in subsequent days/periods of time.

One suspect of convictions and a truckload of town reads is good enough for me on Day 1.

What if you die tonight? You want to leave as much info as possible for people to look back on. We listen to the dead.

I also don't see a truckload of townreads from you anywhere. Mind showing exactly where you have referenced/described/pointed out your "so-called truckload?"

[Bert]

lol, pot calling kettle black or something else here?

Sorry, I don't quite follow what you mean by "pot calling kettle black"

Mind explaining that to me? <3

[Bert]

you rip someone for a lack of scum and town reads, pretty much all you done is fish... pot meet kettle

Hey, hey, I gave a list of comprehensive reads about EVERYONE. I told you all what I was feeling. --> http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5243255

Has Shadoweh done the same? No.

Therefore, fishing is NOT all I have done.

[Bert]

And since you're too lazy to look at who I've been treating as town, Tammy Nacho Empire Marangel Generic PB is a pretty damn good roll call.

Thank you.

You rest squarely in the center of Not Town Mountain.

This is not acceptable at all. No one else as scumreads, just a ton of townreads and nothing else. OK, if you think I'm scum, who am I scum with? Names please.

[Bert]

What question have I not answered?

You're not required to conjure up a team out of thin air. Frankly, most of us have provided ample posts for you to develop at least two weak scum reads at the very least?

Alas, I see your motives are very narrow - to get me lynched. I feel special.

I don't need you to please me. Thanks but no thanks. You're telling me that no one else you have any semblance of a scumread on?

[Bert]

Bert, I'll use plain language even you can understand: You are asking me to tell you who your scumbuddies are without answering the question yourself first.

Marangal, serious question, why are you including PB in that list.

Your whiteknighting of PB is again noted

And I'm not scum; I have no scumbuddies.

You say I'm scum, and yet you can't/won't name another person who is scummy and/or may be scum with me, your main and only scumread

Vote: Shadoweh

[Bert]

EBWOP: And you evade answering who you think might be scum with your only scumread by deflecting the question and ASKING me to answer for you???

That is not acceptable. This should not feel like pulling teeth.

[Bert]

As far as my actual reads:

empire, bert, nacho, mara, generic, garantula and maybe llamarble and shadoweh are town.

gaiden is mhrmhmrh and lynchable. his replace out is null.

besides that are the peacebringer, purple shoe.

I would most like to lynch peace bringer if i were to change my vote at this time or purple shoe just because i cant' remember a damn thing he did and he's not in my town list.

I agree with you that that's too many townreads.

There is something wrong, and I hope you find what you're missing. That's why I feel like at least one of the rather strong players with competent scum games may be universally misread this game. And the paranoia over not having enough people in the pool being genuinely, genuinely scummy to the generic scumhunter like myself. Which is why I'm so paranoid.

[Bert]

I wasn't

Ohey

why are you avoiding interacting with the game, and why are you only responding when called upon by Nacho

anyone can answer for you since you probably won't friggin answer *shrug*

[Bert]

vote generic

, either scum or a policy lynch one or other.

I hate your policy lynch idea. Seriously???????? NOOOOOOOOOOOO

Gaiden replacing out after a vote from PB feels like giving up.

Happy to save waiting on a replacement who then has to catch up also.

vote gaiden

You don't read his replace-out as null? Don't you think giving up can go either way....so it would be null

[Bert]

No idea Mr Bert. Just sort of let this game flow by what with all the arguing etc

Vote: The Purple Shoe

[Bert]

Llamarble's #508 is a good start.

Llamarble is leaning town but seems like easy lynchbait.

Nacho can tell you what happens to scum who try and lynch me <3

Desperado has been very cool, calm and collected. Even when pressured or pressed for expanding on his points he has obliged... [] he seems to be town in his mindset.

Good observation; questionable deduction.

Tammy and Generic and Empire have all townsploded at different points, so that's helpful.

It's definitely not sheeping if I don't even know another vote has been placed.

I AM CURRENT. Well, on events more than who is scum, but that's step 1.

Town:
Llamarble
Generic
Tammy
Nacho
Empire
Bert
Garantula

Mara
PB
Gaiden

Purpleshoething
Shadoweh
Desperado

I am not impressed with Llamarble's post, but Nacho is apparently.

It's just a grocery list that's quite vague, to be honest.

[Bert]

I'm sad that Generic broke his promise to not mention his baggage again.

Also, Bert is looking pretty good.
Purple Shoe is annoying. I wish that was an alignment tell.
Peacebringer is seeming scummy to me.
Ms Marangal seems town. I get the feeling that the argument earlier was town vs town, but we might find out for sure if this mod kill actually happens.
Nacho is still town.
Shadoweh is null.

I'm going to ISO llamarble, Desperado and Tammy.

Until then: VOTE: PeaceBringer

1) Why is Shadoweh null and not leaning either way?

2) What's your read on Purple Shoe; as you remarked yourself, annoying does not equal scummy. Do you think what Purple is doing is just an act to avoid having to express him/herself and give away too much

3) it's not "we might find out," it's "we will find out if he is modkilled"

4) Why is Nacho town to you

[Bert]

Is basic noob an alignment?

I think PB is implying that you're basic noob and pretty transparent, but I beg to differ

Plus, I don't think you're a newb. Maybe aspects of your playstyle seem to be from a newer-ish player? But I don't think you're a newbie, by any stretch of the imagination.

Do you feel you're a basic noob, and if so why

Are you still having trouble getting into this game for your reasons?

[Bert]

Why do you beg to differ? Are you saying you think that I'm scummy or just hard to read?

I don't want them to give you the newb pass, because I don't think it's reliable as you aren't a true newb in that sense of the word, although that's arguable. You have a few games of experience, and that's what counts in my book when evaluating you. I think you are town so far, because you seem to be genuinely trying to figure people out. But some more ISO's and comments would help, of course.

@Bert:
6. I'm finding it a bit easier now that the epic Generic vs Ms Marangal meta fight is over. However, Empire and Tammy have been doing it as well and it's making me cry. It's hard to read through all these tears.

Just ignore the walls then.

I replaced out of 501 because at the time, I didn't know that there was skimming/ignoring of walls that was allowed, and no matter what I couldn't catch up and adequately get into the game. Tammy and Tierce were really boring that game (sorry Tammy, no offense). And not just them, either. Even Nacho was walling it up, but at least his were easier to read and follow, and not as tedious.

@Bert:
2. If purpleshoe is an alt of a prominent player then it's likely that he knows how uncooperative play looks. I can't form any read yet that doesn't fall to WIFOM logic.

Yeah, I agree, and it's making him/her hard for some of us to read and get a handle on. But he/she isn't doing quite enough things to warrant a lynch (yet), that's what gets me. I don't want to see a player like that continue to stay alive late in the game by coasting like this. Not helpful, not cooperative, it's all just a really bad picture I'm seeing right now

[Bert]

No idea Mr Bert. Just sort of let this game flow by what with all the arguing etc

hey mutley next time you make an alt make sure you don't leave your email address in your profile

thanks in advance

MUTTERS

what the...

YOU

you avoiding meaniehead!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!

[Bert]

I would bet the game on one of the three neighbors being scum

[Bert]

I meant that figuratively, not literally

There's no betting going on lol

[Bert]

2 neighborhoods and huge to

How bizarre...

[Bert]

Checking in before an errand...



Will comment on the neighbors, etc., etc., tonight

[Bert]

then maybe next time he'll provide content on his alt instead of posting useless one-liners

^I like this guy

[Bert]

Yeah, it does look that way

Mutters is overreacting and it has sounded fake

[Bert]

ert you are fake no taco for you

[Bert]

Catching up here <3 Will wall it up for my Nacho love this afternoon after some Kentucky Fried Chicken

Your blacklisted for being he biggest dick I've ever played with and i havent blacklisted anyone yet that's how bad you are and I let a lot slide. When I flip town you will see it is solely cos you are a dick and nothing else. I refuse to fall to your desires of how you want me to play because you are just a dick. Thanks

[Bert]

Nacho are you sure about the shoe?

pretty sure at this point. there is a tiny chance that he's playing this game specifically to make me scumread him, but mutley's not that much of an ass so that's a tinfoil worry.

What do you think of his/her blacklisting comment and all AtE spill?

[Bert]

Unvote

[Bert]

It's beyond hypocritical to join the wagon of someone who has abandoned on topic posting and spilling emotional arguements all over the place in my podition, it's a piss take.

hypocrisy isn't a scumtell

[Bert]

Generic do you think Shoe is scum or not

[Bert]

This feels like that Mara wagon in 514 all over again

Doesn't feel right

how sure are you Nacho, sure enough to risk a D1 lynch?

[Bert]

Does no one have anything to say about the very obvious breadcrumb? I can't be the only one who found it weird.

Kuribo looked bad. Empire looked bad. I think there's a scumbag in there.

[Bert]

My gut is Empire is scum, but don't expect me to ever make a case about it.

[Bert]

Also Desperado is still the closest thing I've found to a slam dunk in this game, and we should lynch scum today so that we can figure out which global townread is wrong (Empire? Mara?).

How is Desp close to a slam dunk?

Last time I heard someone say this, it was scum bussing. Lol

[Bert]

What do you think of Desperado?

Nacho, sweetie pie, let's lynch Desperado together?

Vote: Desperado

[Bert]

I don't feel good about lynching Shoe.

It doesn't feel right.

[Bert]

Anti-town doesn't equal scum

once you get him to give reads and such and start participating, then I think that's a better time to take a chance and lynch him/her. Would give more info, plus he'll have shown his hand

P-edit: will do tonight when Im not phone-access only.

[Bert]

would you like Llamarble dead today?

I'll try to help you, love, while you are alive and well

our time is always limited, as you know

[Bert]

There is most likely at the very least one scum in each neighborhood

[Bert]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Scroll down:

If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum.

If you are one of four Neighbors, chances are very good that at least one of the other Neighbors is scum.

If there are multiple Neighborhoods in the same game, chances are very good that at least one of them has a scum Neighbor.

If you are one of more than four Neighbors, it is nearly certain that at least one representative of every anti-Town faction is in the Neighborhood.

[Bert]

@Shadoweh:

1) I don't read wiki's religiously

2) I just got out of a game where there were two neighborhoods and that's what Yates quoted while we were discussing the multiple neighborhoods and what to do FYI

3) I wasn't quoting at you. Why are you so over-defensive? It doesn't feel genuine

P-edit: Llamarble all of your last post just parrots what other people have said. You scum, bro?

Vote: Llamarble

You brought nothing new in that last post, you copied what people said, and you flat-out used time constraints as an excuse for not being useful?

Ughhhhh

[Bert]

Shadoweh might be scum. I'll agree that she and Desperado are probably the best options for today. There isn't much time left for me to become properly useful is there .
Townreads need rethinking because there are just too many of them.

1) Shadoweh might be scum? You're the first to say that, but without any weight behind the statement

2) You have ample time to become useful; what kind of excuse is that

3) townreads need rethinking? Updated scumreads please

[Bert]

Lol. I quoted a post without even choosing to, that's new.

On my phone and having trouble editing anything so in just typing what comes out of my head

That was me wondering in my head if he's scum, didn't realize I asked him that lol

[Bert]

Shadoweh and Llamarble are warming up as scumreads

Empire/Tammy can be investigated and we can figure them out if one is the scumbag (I bet one is - the way they kept accusing each other of not reading each other as town was so wordy, repetitive and manafactured sounding, such that it leads me to believe one is scum.) one of those gut feelings heebie jeebies. I think it's Empire.

PB is who I'm most confused about, that playstyle could get by as either alignment easily, question is how to tell

Nacho is my strongest townread. I like Generic and Mara a lot and wouldn't ever touch them.

Garan leaning town,

Kuribo/Gaiden balance each other out, jury's still out but leaning town

Shoe is probably town - blatant willing lynchbait and playing mind games with us

Desp confuses the hell outta me, don't know how to read him, seems like an enigma

I'm on my phone, so if I forgot you, it means I don't remember you which is very very bad

God I'm tired

[Bert]

@Shadoweh:
3) I wasn't quoting at you. Why are you so over-defensive? It doesn't feel genuine

It's almost like I'm frustrated that the only reason some people have given that I'm scum is 'there must be one in the neighbourhoods'.
Also I don't like you. We established that part already. Now stop jumping around like a lunatic and get back on the wagon.

1) If you think "there must be scum in the neighborhoods" is the main part or why youre being considered as scum, you are sadly mistaken.

2) We can stay civil. You don't have to like me, but that doesn't mean you complain about not liking me so frequently

3) you mentioned not wanting personal fights, so please don't read (2) and then hurl another insult again

[Bert]

Vote: Desperado

#WeTrustInNacho

[Bert]

I'm still waiting for the clique to decide who will be lynched. That's how this day is going to end almost certainly.

Why the casual wait-and-see approach? You aren't taken the initiative. It's your vote too, ya know!

I won't be around for the next two days but I really don't want to lynch outside the neighbours, not even to try and get a generic lynch

/ phonepost

You still think Generic scum after all of the things that have happened? What gives

2) Erm, by suggesting that the suspect pool should be {Shadoweh/Llamarble/Tammy/myself} you're basically saying that the entire scum team are Neighbors (assuming the standard 10:3)...that's pretty much impossible (also, Tammy and myself are both town, take that to the bank).

Well, I said one of you/Tammy is probably town. And no, I'm not taking Tammy-town to the bank until she's actually dead. If it's 10:3, probably 1 scum in Shadoweh/Llamarble (probably Shadoweh), then 1 in Tammy/Empire, and then 1 in my confused reads category (Desperado/PB). Still don't know which yet, but that's where I'm leaning at the moment.

[Bert]

Oh P.S. I read where PeaceBringer said he won a scummy back in his/her prime for Most Prolific or something. So he/she shouldn't be overlooked or underestimated. Just sayin'

[Bert]

I'll gladly go back to Shadoweh Bert, and I don't like how both Marble and Shadoweh are both on Desp

Yeah, I don't like that either. It's your call (and Nacho's).

[Bert]

vote peacebringer

I feel that I'm wise to assume that some of PB's statements that were kinda scummy were lost in the noise to some here. Would you mind bringing the statements back?

You've pointed him/her out, but I feel we need a recap so more people may be convinced. Is that too much to ask?

There are a handful of people I'm willing to lynch today: <Shadoweh, Llamarble, Desperado, PeaceBringer>

[Bert]

SXTLHGaiden- want to hear more from
Llamarble- no idea
TheGarantula- seems basic noob
PeaceBringer- Good Guy, Town
Empire- too much meta for me, but seems townish to me
Nachomamma8- pushing and prodding- townish
Tammy- gives me the heebies
Bert- a fisherman-town
Ms Marangal- town
Generic-probably is as claimed at this point- modkill
Desperado- eye brow raising, not quite alarming
The Purple Shoe- heebie jeebies, lurking, not engaging
Shadoweh- seems to be working for town

Any concrete scumreads yet, other than "heebie jeebies?"

I think the margin of error we may have with you is the "this is now how I play card." Also, the occasional air of superiority comes off as scummy.

But disregarding that, I don't feel like you're really scumhunting, and the stance of just sitting back and watching doesn't really cut it for me so far. There's no forceful reads, and at some point we can't allow you to just sit back and claim to "analyze" and be...hate to say it, but...lazy (and out of the spotlight).

vote generic

, either scum or a policy lynch one or other.

vote purple shoe

vote Gart...

uncalled for... seriously low

These are your last two votes. Are you still going to stick with Garantula as a vote? This vote appears to be for his/her being insulting to another player. That doesn't equal scum. You sheeped people on Purple Shoe but didn't make further additional comments to explain properly. And your vote on generic was 50% a policy-lynch thing when AtE was being spilled everywhere. It just doesn't feel right.

The speed of the game has changed, and that should accommodate your style better, correct?

[Bert]

Vote: llamarble

#lynchfortoday

#motherofawesome

[Bert]

Hey nacho Im not listening to my initial gut like I should recently - you call the shots!


Who

Who should we pick <3

[Bert]

Strange how your indecision and vote hoping all over the place is largely left alone bert. You care to explain the chaos?

Brain and gut telling me different things. I'm jumpy like this, Nacho can attest to that. That's also why I get lynched a lot.

But throughout this ordeal, the people i'm willing to lynch are, in no particular order:

Shadoweh, Llamarble

I will settle for:

Desperado or even Peacebringer (PB is a distant 4th)

That's my stance and my gut read.

Gut tells me what logic doesn't, and it's a battle in my head. It's something I can't explain.

I feel the most comfortable acting this way around people who I know well (Mara, Nacho in this game).

Otherwise I'd be very cautious so as not to get all the town really unsettled

[Bert]

EBWOP: I'm also very nervous about hitting scum D1 because I don't know which strong player (who is town) is going to die tonight, as his/her days are numbered and I want to have a good scumlynch to show for it.

P-edit: Hi Mara I love you you are town in this game don't ever change <3

love, Bert

[Bert]

He doesn't work awesomely well as a buddy for Shadoweh either, so I just plain don't have enough scumreads to try and associate people.

And Bert still looked town too,

leaving me not sure what's going on here.

you're lazy or scum

[Bert]

vote Shadoweh with me, please. I think your last couple posts started to look townish, I looked at them weirdly at first though re-thinking, it makes sense.. I think and I probably won't vote you now

Nacho is weirding me out with his reluctance to vote Shadoweh, and then he says he'll back you up on Llamarble perhaps

That kind of uncertainty is kinda making my townread on him weaker recently. he needs to commit harder

UNVOTE:
VOTE: The Purple Shoe

1. Hates bald eagles
2. Early town read on generic.
3. ACTIVE LURKING OMG WHY ISN'T HE DEAD YET SERIOUSLY YOU ALL SUCK FOR NOT LYNCHING THIS SOONER

Is this a random vote or are you being serious

There's (1) lynching for being useless as either alignment and (2) lynching because you genuinely think this is an informational lynch regardless of the flip or (3) he's totes scum. Which is it to you

bert and nacho are not my favorites

also, so many meta arguments sucl ass

did you finish reading everything

does "not favorite" = "scumread"? No need to be cryptic here

Pedit: I think I prefer Shadow over marble

this isn't happening probably

although shadoweh and desperado do work better as a team.

Nacho you better get back here and explain why shadoweh and desperado work well as a team

and why is Shadoweh not happening, exactly. Gut? or what? you're not being very transparent here. I'm disappointed

[Bert]

Oh shoot, 36 hours remaining

I've become a bit detached from this game at times, but my strongest gut scumread has been Shadoweh

Vote: Shadoweh

[Bert]

I just want this day to end so we can see a flip soon and get to night

[Bert]

Generic when you get out of your Mara tunnel who will u be most suspicious of

[Bert]

Nacho your vibe is very odd right now

It seems like you're trying to make it seem like you're doing stuff

But you're really just directing us casually to several options

I have no idea why you're town reading Shadoweh or scumreading shoe still

Maybe you can explain that more instead of just brushing it off with "Shadoweh is town so idk why u all are voting her"

Which is a shame because you started out this game really strong but you're cooling off

[Bert]

his conflict with kuribo was good and cool and stuff but if he's only gonna come in the game when people piss him off then i don't even want him

Spare me the "useless as either alignment, therefore should be lynched" BS

[Bert]

The way shoe went all "black list u kuribo and shit" is just really low

Don't see him doing that as town

[Bert]

No, Mara and Nacho are using the "I'm busy and overgamed" schtick and its lazy and convenient

If u wanna look at my past games on nachopappa,

You will see that I am very often doubting my Nacho reads mid-game

I expect a lot out of him. The people just brushing him off as town are worrying me

Nacho and Mara could be scum together tbh as I wouldn't be surprised

And this strong player group all going one after the other "I got too many townreads" is just sketchy at best

C'mon gimme a break!

[Bert]

I know, fine, yea, I understand, silly!!!!

You're not welcome, Love!!

[Bert]

FUCK I JUST GOT SOUP ON MY SCREEN THANKS BERT
;[

I owe you, love

Let me make this all better for u

Vote: Purple Shoe

All better???

[Bert]

<3333

Vote: Desperado

/pat

[Bert]

I'll be here near deadline

So consider my vote a mobile one

[Bert]

Nacho I feel better about Lynching shoe

[Bert]

Okay I like that response, Nacho. That's very townie

Okay Nacho

Let's lynch Desp. I believe in Nacho!

[Bert]

Desp hasn't done anything particularly townie all game tbh so not opposed at all

At all aw naw

[Bert]

Also, in case you're wondering, the vote feels about as icky as I expected.

Honestly,

I'd rather see Llamarble or Shadoweh gone

Or qwints/peacebringer

It doesn't feel good to me either

But what other choice do we have

[Bert]

That makes me feel better, boss

I don't know this player's town or scum game

So I will trust you no matter how icky heebie jeebie it feels or how many goosebumps I get

#trust4eva

[Bert]

nacho - did you answer my question about your updated read on 'marble?

probably not. marble's getting a d1 pass from me at the moment because he's extremely worth keeping around if he's town.

Stupid passes

You don't have a townread on him

[Bert]

Good point

I want you to be alive tomorrow so u can catch empire or Tammy

[Bert]

Lets keep throwing Nacho's past failures in his face to reassure him <3

[Bert]

Nacho I will be crying in happiness if Desp flips scum

If he flips town, you will bask in the martyrdom of forgiveness <3

[Bert]

I will cry a river, build a bridge over it, and bury the scum beneath the sea of happy cries

<333

[Bert]

Desperado gives some reads and some reasons, but the scumhunting energy level isn't as high as, say, Bert. He hasn't really thrown down to try and force anything, and his votes work as places scum would vote.

Nacho, Llamarble makes me feel odd because people who don't know me don't 'normally' use me as an example of someone with high scumhunting energies and as an example of someone towntelling

I'm not much of a scumhunter, and not conventional in my spamminess

Just very peculiar that he lists me, ya know?

You will take care of him if you start scumreading him, I know you will <333

[Bert]

FINE

VOTE: desperado

You're right empire that does feel kinda icky.

If it feels icky, then why are you sheeping

start a new wagon?

[Bert]

CLAIM

[Bert]

GOddammit

VOTE: Shoe

I think I like this better than desperado ATM

What vote other than generic feels good??????

[Bert]

Good morning town.

Nice to see you alive, Nachomamma. <3

[Bert]

Vote: qwints

Nacho, I know you don't recommend reading through a game during the night, but I did.

[Bert]

Wow, so Death is an SK.

I was just reading the game during the night, and I was like dang PeaceBringer keeps gut scumvibing me more than any other player. that's why I voted qwints

[Bert]

EBWOP: Shadoweh still gives me bad feelings too, but Nacho wants her alive for whatever reason. :/

Mara is very mixed, but I my townread downgraded to null.

[Bert]

lol at desp. Thanks for clearing me, I can coast even more now!!!

On serious note. Mara you scum?

Coasting, really?

Do you like competing with me and trying to be the easiest lynchbait or...

[Bert]

Shadoweh still gives me bad feelings too, but Nacho wants her alive for whatever reason. :/

not anymore.

Vote: Shadoweh

Love, what changed your mind??

Your stance was stubbornly steering us away from voting Shadoweh yesterday.

What gives???

[Bert]

Bert, qwints seems an awful lot like he did in Scumhunter, doesn't he?

Yes, but he also has a competent scumgame apparently. I haven't seen him/her as scum.

Vote: Shadoweh

<333

[Bert]

Mara, Desp was an SK

[Bert]

I was just taking their word for it that Desp was an SK - that's what the consensus is.

Mara, why do you want me to ISO yoru interactions with qwints? Mind sharing what you talked about with Shadoweh that convinced you she/he is town?

[Bert]

So inte...

anything you want to comment on?

or...

[Bert]

This is a weird sequence. Bert, who's they and what do you think?

No idea. Yielding to their expertise (Tammy, Nacho)

I think alot of the stuff garantula did is surfacely townish with a little bit of insight to what he thinks, but I don't think it's enough.

Yeah. Garantula's play should have no impact on how we view his/her replacement.

Mara, I don't think there's an SK but I need to think about it because Desperado technically could still be one considering he's aligned with himself.

Do you *think* he's aligned with himself or not?

[Bert]

FakeGod's standard colors are red for Mafia, blue for town. He changed the colors for Assassins and Guards, so I'm guessing he wouldn't make an SK dark red. I'm leaning towards Desp being group-scum at the moment.

Oh...

Who replaced him?

qwints...

Not to mention that she was an early voter on Desperado but didn't actually push that a whole lot.

Hmm...still such a quick turnaround on Shadoweh, that it worries me to hear you say this

[Bert]

You still haven't given a detailed enough, acceptable explanation to what changed your mind about Shadoweh over one night phase

[Bert]

Putting my vote back on qwints too

Vote: qwints

[Bert]

Lynch -2 now

Nacho are you faking falling behind in this game

Really???

[Bert]

Desperado, Shoeuntil blacklist tell, generic early on

Llamarble but not worth d1 lynch to you cuz of usefulness

Not Shadoweh or Mara or me

U didn't say much about Tammy or empire

Idk why but u never really scumread gaiden

[Bert]

I snooze in 50% of my games

Other 50% I stay interested and this is one of the interesting ones

[Bert]

Kay.

Makes me feel better. I remember that statement about the read eroding but at that time I thought you may be distancing from Shadow

And you also said someone and Desperado works better as a team than A and B, I forget.

[Bert]

Why not Nacho?

And yes I am still scum-reading Generic and I'm getting tired of waiting for him to do pro-town things

shadoweh looks pretty damn town and I have no idea why you are scumreading her.

Nacho, cut the crap. I just got onto a computer because this doesn't feel right. This is 1060 past 943, and why did you lie to Mara about your read.

Because you didn't want a flashwagon on Shadoweh? Really?

[Bert]

although shadoweh and desperado do work better as a team.

OK, found this.

There is no way in fuck am I lynching, or even voting Peacebringer

VOTE: Shadoweh <--- would love for this to get backed up

i'll back up a llamarble vote maybe but not this, sorry.

You said you would back up a llamarble vote "maybe," even though that would be a flash wagon too. And you just said you didn't want to wagon Shadoweh because it would be a flash wagon and not enough support? But then you say you would be willing to vote llamarble which is essentially the same thing...

Vote: Nachomamma8

[Bert]

I already told you, I get paranoid about Nacho in virtually all of my games with him. Pushing him helps to sort him out. What part of this do you not get

And it IS possible he pushed Desp and got lucky. I wouldn't put that past Nacho, I have seen his plan as scum to just stir up WHATEVER IT TAKES to mislynch someone and keep right on going

[Bert]

You spent all game kissing his ring bert, what's with the flip of opinion?

I can ask the same question about you and Mara. Suddenly you are expressing a tinge of willingness to work with her for the first time this game, when you have been stubborn stubborn STUBBORN all game. Why now?

What is your read on Mara right now, be real

[Bert]

Wow, you mean I was right about nacho in the early part of the game?

Is he the sort of guy to sell out a team mate to get ahead? Or are you suggesting he pushed on desp and got lucky finding an SK?

Thought I answered these, but sorry I did not meet your expectations in answering.

1) You might be, I don't know yet about Nacho - confused about my read right now - I am in a pickle

2) Yes he is, I don't put ANYTHING past him

3) It is NOT unlikely by any stretch, so that it gets him some towncred, especially with other stronger players in the game who have experience with him

[Bert]

Town cop. Her hints and sudden change of opinion on me is bullshit otherwise. She is either guaranteed scum or she copped me.

You don't think Nacho and others talking to her about you have played a role in changing her mind?

Wish you hadn't said the "cop" part aloud. That's pure speculation IMO.

[Bert]

I've never seen Nacho lie about his past reads, and then backtrack and concoct something like this.

It doesn't make sense, unless he was super afraid of drawing a D1 NK and wanted to hide his true read...which is not likely with Tammy, Empire, Llamrarble being in the game to say the least

doesn't pass the 'feel' test

Yes, Mara is being super-stubborn so I'm still looking at her play closely as this day wears on. My townread eroded during my N1 re-read as I said when D2 first began.

[Bert]

Oh look, shoe's still not doing anything useful. What a surprise.

Top secret technical analysis (TM) reveals:

Town:
Empire and Nacho

Prob Town:
Inte and Desparado

Prob scum: Generic, PurpleShoe

Fundamental Analysis begins now.

New reveals please?

[Bert]

Is getting stuff out of you always like pulling teeth?

Who are your scumreads??

[Bert]

Bert, qwints seems an awful lot like he did in Scumhunter, doesn't he?

He does. But, he can be productive as both town in scum. I researched his past games as he has been a member for an awfully long time.

Our two games with him are aberrations in that he is being a lurksack that does nothing.

In the past, I looked - he has shown to be helpful, useful, and writing lots (contributing lots) as both town AND scum (in certain games).

Why he is doing this again, when he was in Legends of the Hidden Temple making cases instead of lurky-lurk here shouldn't be alignment indicative.

The point is he has been here an ample amount of time, had lots of days (no excuses like in Scumhunter's Speed) to catch up to speed. And he/she hasn't. That's a HUGE red flag.

[Bert]

Hey Tammy, who is in which neighborhood again? I have to look back. I am free for the rest of the week so I will be looking through this thread intermittently.

I'm not trusting anyone 100% at this point. I'll join a bandwagon for either neighborhood if it feels right.

[Bert]

EBWOP: I've been getting by without knowing who is in which neighborhood because it's too complicated

[Bert]

Bert, there are specific things that are going on. Something that makes our neighborhood special compared to Tammy and co. (least I think so) Relationship wise. I surfaced the difference without explicitly delving into it

I think Nacho is kinda aware of what is going on, but I want you to look at the choice words I use when defending Qwints, look at the strength of my defense, compared to the D1 defense of my sisters and ask yourself how one could get that strength of a read

I overlooked this post because

(1) Nacho may be aware, but I don't get what's going on and what the implications are, and why WE should believe you or that this exonerates ANY of your neighborhood. Is there some secret alliance in there? Because if you're crumbing, I'm not good at catching those...

(2) seriously, explain the strength of your defense

Good luck getting any of those reads to go through. All of your scum reads are in the other neighborhood and they're all insisting they're all town for mysterious reasons and we're just supposed to trust them.

I don't know where you're getting this idea, but I won't be fed that BS about them being all town unless I UNDERSTAND REMOTELY what's going on

Also, my GUT (for inexplicable reasons) does not like projectmatt's catchup post above. Will you all please look at it

[Bert]

this is definitely the worst softclaim ever

YOUR AVATAR IS BACK!!! YEEHAW YEE DOGGIE MAH MAN IS BACK <33333333333

LOVEEEEEEEEEEE YOOUR CLASSIC AVIEEEE

OK NOW TELL ME

what's the softclaim here or is it secret

Bert just drank a Coke after class and is scouring the thread for any indication as to WHY I should TRUST anyone in that neighborhood, whoever may be in that neighborhood

Love, BERT

P-edit: DONT YOU CAPS LOCK ME

COP? JUST COME OUT AND FRIGGIN SAY IT <3

[Bert]

EBWOP: Generic already kinda asked Mara about that already, and Mara didn't confirm/deny it...

WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL

[Bert]

ANYONE CAN READ BETWEEN THE LIINES. I. DON'T. TRUST. YOUR. NEIGHBORHODD.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

<33333333

Tammy you have received MUCH FONDNESS from BERT

<33333333333

[Bert]

I would like to hear any rationale for anything that is bothering for you in that post if you can work out anything than gut.

I already told you it gives me bad gut vibes and I'm trying to figure out why, hence why I used the word "inexplicable." And I'm asking stronger and much more experienced scumhunters to help give feedback and assuage me if possible.

[Bert]

VOTE: SHADOWEH

HALLELUJAH FREAKIN BABY

LET'S GO <3 WAGON THIS SCUM TO PLANET OF MUCHO SHADOWS

[Bert]

I have a hard time seeing both Qwints and Shadoweh as town, along with Empire

Also, Shadoweh's at L-2 right now and I'm about to head out for the night, so if we could please not run her up before this gets sorted out (well, I'd prefer her not getting run up period), that would be pretty phenomenal.

Your defending is noted.

Seriously. Also, the person you're defending BETTER be a town role. The hard defend is REALLY REALLY pinging my scumdars, I hope you know that.

[Bert]

Take your 'tude about your neighborhood away then and stop talking down to us like you know something we don't if you're just going to be all secretive as to why you're hard-defending Shadoweh like that

You wonder why someone can't relate, and then you don't bother explaining, then you go all "like I give a rat's ass"

Why do Nacho and Generic have to be playing very strong games if they're scum? They have competent scum games, so what

they get caught like all good scumplayers do...

So do you, so you might be scum

[Bert]

inte
projectmatt
nacho

Are you townreading nacho, Tammy?

I want the truth.

[Bert]

It's a bunch of other stuff that I really don't want to get into at this time (though I will say that it has nothing to do with my role or hers). After Marangal says what she has to say, then I'll speak.

I already feel fucking awful for blowing up but I just wasn't in the mood to deal with this shit after the Xenologue game.

You're blowing up and directing stuff at others. I don't care about your Xenologue game because I don't even know what that is. I care about this game. And seriously, I don't appreciate you coming in here and flinging shit at us and directing that kind of stuff towards us

"it has nothing to do with my role or hers" - way to be subtle.

I'll wait for Mara, but this is making me very uncomfortable

if you're protecting a survivor or some kind of anti-town role, I am gonna scream

[Bert]

I want you to look at the choice words I use when defending Qwints, look at the strength of my defense, compared to the D1 defense of my sisters and ask yourself how one could get that strength of a read

ROLE INFORMATION

THANK YOU AT LEAST ONE FUCKING PLAYER IN THIS GAME ACTUALLY CAN READ BETWEEN THE FUCKING LINES

Your air of superiority is bothering me

Bottom line is I am gonna defend Tammy because I actually see where she is coming from, unlike you.

Your repeated f-bombs are just ticking me off so I'm going to leave this thread for a while. You're acting like JasonWazza seriously. And really demeaning what others have to offer

Sorry guys, Empire's repeated f-bombs came out of nowhere and that attitude just isn't what I expected from him. I'm gonna leave the thread for a while and come back after I forget all of this.

This changes my read of you because of all this overreacting of you. At least we're getting some emotion...lol

[Bert]

Sorry, Empire and all. I was being impatient, my bad. It happens, just ask Nacho who has seen me go from heaven to hell and go after him like my life depended on it.

Just confused as to what's going on lol

[Bert]

kiinnndaaa don't want to believe that Nacho is scum but, if the entire neigborhoods are clean then they might have a chance of being scum

though, I think I want shoe before I want Nacho

also

Shadow is already slated to die at the end of the day (sorry empire, I couldn't shake it)

Huh? Shadow is slated to die, what makes you think that

Why don't you want to believe Nacho is scum??? Did your townread (strong one) from D1 go out the window because of your neighborhood being "clear"?

now, i trust mara when she says "I have role related information that qwints is town". you should too.
she wouldn't say it unless she knew 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt.

so she has to be scum before qwints is scum.

?? don't understand this

[Bert]

Tammy, do you think it's Nacho?

Tammy please answer this.

And yeah, Nacho's making me feel weird this game. What's new...

I don't know what to make of my feelings

[Bert]

no because shadoweh will flip scum
it's as easy as inte or matt, and empire should be able to read matt but i sort of lean inte right now

more conviction please, love <3

[Bert]

I never was in a legitimate 'clique' per se.

I would not like to be associated with them anymore. Nacho or Mara may be scum, and both can go sit in the scumchair until we figure them out

and why Mara when she just claimed poisoner

is poisoner an anti-town role or...

And actually I'm glad shadoweh is dying! <3

[Bert]

One thing that doesn't stack up.

Why change your read on me?

At this stage after all that was said day 1 and your lover trying to get me removed by the mod, you accept nacho as the likely scum rather than me if your hood is clean?
You gave me shit for calling him scum, auto cleared him and formed a little clique with him and bert...

vote mara

I actually agree with this...

It does not add up, Mara <3

Vote: Mara

[Bert]

Then let's go Nacho.

Honestly

All I know is Generic is strong town to me and I want Nacho dead at this point

Vote: Nacho

[Bert]

Im just called a Servant.

I'm Town.

Just a VT

[Bert]

Geez I should go to sleep soon I just did that without much forethought lol I'm okay with a massclaim btw

[Bert]

I have no name. Im just called a servant...

[Bert]

Tammy decide the order please

[Bert]

Tammy, my gut feels like Nacho is scum

[Bert]

@Generic: my gut is strongly feeling Nacho as scum in this game now

Hey Nacho

Scumbag

Hey

How about talking to Tammy and addressing her since she's voting you instead of ignoring

[Bert]

EBWOP:

did you notice that nacho is still ignoring that i'm voting for him and that if you all are clear, he's probably scum? what do you think of that?

[Bert]

Sounds like you made the same assumption I did tammy... I don't think they made the decision as a group to kill shadoweh, by his/her reaction I get the impression they have also just found out about it like us.

The poisoning thing initially struck me as scum; I think it's the connotation of that word. Vigilante sounds so much more 'gentle'...lol

My temptation to vote Nacho is actually growing mildly but I still feel like something really isn't right and the amount of people in this game I can trust as town in a dependable way our starting to dwindle.

Why is it starting to dwindle? Who do you trust less than you did upon your entrance to this game?

I want a claim from Inte or Tammy, right now.

Is there a reason you are overlooking where Tammy said she would not like to claim until others go? She has made that quite clear

Then I'll drop it for you.

Pretty sure you drew scum, but

at least act like you're trying to help us out, because you responses to Tammy are pretty poor

lack of time is not an adequate excuse right now

and you're looking worse and worse as the day has progressed

start doing pro-town things please

Glad I have Tammy (and Generic) on my side to help bring you down, because I know I can't do this alone

[Bert]

EBWOP: Oh, and Nacho, start directly to us and being more spontaneous

I am feeling you as scum for sure, let's make others get a feel for you too

also, still don't really like projectmatt (gut-wise), his last post #1497 - is vague about his reads ("temptation to vote Nacho is growing mildly but blah-blah" and doesn't do anything for me, sorry.

that long reads list didn't feel genuine, it is what it is

[Bert]

God Nacho my gut just hates everything you're posting

why did you have to draw scum, why

And yeah, I think Shadoweh will flip scum because of his tone today. FWIW

[Bert]

@Shadoweh: are you meaning to imply that Mara is scum, ma'am?

Sorry about the gender thing. Just try to work with us if you're town. It feels like you're not considering others's input and weighing in much in a constructive way.

[Bert]

YES more votes for Nacho

I can't see him as town, I just can't

having been in a hydra with him and watching him play as scum in the hydra, or being town against him (scum), or town with town

this is the worst gut-wise I've felt about his prospects of flipping scum in a long, long time

his play screams scum, really

[Bert]

Mara, my answer is it is possible. It's a theme game. Are you one-shot poisoner? Sorry if you already answered this - on phone

3 kills per night is too much, but one-shot would make sense.

[Bert]

purple shoe or inte being poisoned would take out another suspicious-ish person without forfeiting a day phase

purple shoe is like not even present and giving anything for us to look at today, so he/she needs to go IMO

inte needs to catch up soon, but purple shoe would be my poison choice

I trust my gut 100% in this instance with Nacho, his play is just feeling gut-wise off off off

so he's my lynch choice #1 priority withotu a doubt, that will not change today

I really don't think Mara will consider poisoning Nacho, so that's that, hence why I'm advocating a Nacho lynch without a doubt

I'm starting to think qwints might be town, actually, he's helping with the Nacho vote and he's being rather quiet (that's what I expected from 213 scumhunter's speed). I had too high expectations from him after he got nominated for being best replacement in a scum game, but I'm down to Planet Earth now

[Bert]

How

Do

You

Know?

[Bert]

Because

of

his

interaction

with Desp

bussing

<3

[Bert]

I sheep stronger players that I think are town

My townreads on the former eroded,

You two I feel are town

That's what I do,

You've said that you're concerned about me for days now

Buddying is not a scum tell for me, otherwise I would be dead in all of my games

[Bert]

Of everyone not named Shadoweh, My gut is giving me bad signals about Matt too in addition to Nacho

I will support a Matt or Nacho lynch. And I will support Tammy and Generic if so they choose someone else.

Love, Bert