Mini 1626: Duck Tales Mafia (Game Over)

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Kitty, this is what happened:

I was voting Pasche.
I switched my vote to Pine, not tolerating the fact he was continuing doing nothing, yet trying to PL me. I clearly stated I still think Pasche is scum.
TW, who was already voting me and pushing me, used this as an extra reason to do so, claiming that now that the Pasche "wagon" was gaining steam (only mastin was on it), I was trying to break it down.
I said so. He changed his vote to Pasche, claiming that he thought he was already doing so.
I tried to understand why he couldn't agree with my need to explore my Pine read. After all, he had stated that he also is curious about Pine, was "dying" to vote him, and "hoped he towned it up soon". Also why he couldn't understand that I had no desire to cease pushing Pasche like he was claiming.
He ignored both these topics, continued to push me, arguing that I am Pasche's scumbuddy because Pasche is obvious scum, and because there is no need to try and read Pine.
The certainty of Pasche being scum annoyed me, because even I wasn't that sure, so I asked him where the certainty comes from. No answer.
I then went back and checked, and found that when I had asked him what his read on Pasche is after the latest happenings, he had said "dunno". After that, Pasche had only posted twice. I looked at those two posts and couldn't find anything too incriminating in them, in fact they were posts that I could see coming from town. So I asked again, what in those two posts brought his read from "dunno" to "certainly scum".
No answer, and his excuse was "so what, my read changed.". Yet he did not explain what changed it.


He is not scum because he refused to explain. He is not scum because his playstyle is what it is. He's scum because of his motivation. Because this whole Pasche push was an excuse to continue pushing me. To add an extra reason for why I should be lynched. He didn't actually scumread Pasche.

Then just read his push on me from that point onwards. See how he ignores the facts and changes the point to continue making sense. See his ridiculous ignoring of me. Think of a townie that is hard-tunneling on a suspect, try to put TW in that role and you will see it doesn't make sense.


Read the game from our exchange till now, keeping in mind all of the above. And then tell me he is town again.

And this isn't just for Kitty. It's for everyone.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

do i look like i care where your vote stays?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

those are just some weak-ass reasons you came up with now and definitely don't explain why you were that certain about pasche-scum

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Sigh, kitty. You don't want to take me seriously. You're just shrugging everything I say off. I can't do anything more than this, live with your wrong town-tunnel.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

seriously, i can see exactly the way you think. You have decided I am a tunneling townie who is wrong and don't want to give the possibility I am right any thought.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

and this is what house is hoping for. That people will stay on the surface, will think "okay two idiotic loud townies that tunnel on each other", and will not actually read the game in detail to see that he is scum. And I know I am to blame for this because I keep replying to every one of his posts, but still.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You have decided I am a tunneling townie who is wrong

Mostly, I've decided that you're a bit of a hypocrite.

Expain.

Your

. Pasch. Read.

you know what, no. vote me if you think im a hypocrite.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

So after me trying my best to explain to you this is not what happened, you insist that all this because of TW not explaining his pasch read.

I don't think you're town anymore, Kitty. I've started thinking you want to protect TW.

I can buy you town-tunneling on TW, I've seen people doing it. But insisting on such a ridiculous thing and misrepping the situation after I went out of my way to explain it to you? It looks more like you want to prove House's point right.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

To explain that further, the thought process I thought you were having (and what most people probably have right now) is that this was TvT and I am wrong about House. No townie will ever think about

me

being scum here, because that's simply ridiculous. Yet you apparently are, and the only motivation I can see for that is to make people think that maybe House is right, thus reducing the probabilities of his lynch.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

In order to think I am a hypocrite, you also need to think that I am scumreading people because they are not explaining his reads. In order to think that, you need to completely trash the long explanation where I explained that's not why I'm scumreading him. In order to trash that, you need to either hate me and have decided that you'll make my live as hard as you can, or have scum motivation.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

the thing is, i wasnt screaming at him to give reads because i wanted to know his reads. it was because I knew it was impossible to have the definite scumread he had from two posts, and i knew he wouldnt be able to explain it.

but of course you wont care about that difference

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

im actually making everything needlessly easy, you are his partner, this cant be explained in any other way. you are trying your best to get attention off him and dont consider for one second he might be scum. It doesn't make any sense otherwise. No townie would read all this and focus on my Pasche read of all things.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Seriously, SH, had you just given you read when TW asked, I'm pretty sure he would have done the same and we could have avoided the last 10 pages of craziness.

yeah because this is what caused this

totally

its not like i explained in detail that thats not what happened

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I am ceasing my exchange with Kitty because I don't want to do the same mistake I did with House.

To everyone: Kitty's current motivation is to provide you with a "Wisdom was in the wrong, House might just be town, probably they were both town". She does not care to read House, despite my futile attempts to explain to her that she is looking at this wrong and my lengthy explanation of how exactly things happened. She tries to call me a hypocrite to make me look bad and take attention off House. My Pasche read is the last thing a townie should be caring for at this moment, with House practically claimed scum. Yet what she focuses on is that, and tries to insist that my not explaining my Pasche read is what caused my lengthy exchange with House, when things quite clearly did not happen that way (and if youre in doubt, go reread).

She is House's buddy.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

dw, we will do just that via lynching tw since its only one head playing

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

i know, but unfortunately for you, thats the one thats getting lynched

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

nice one

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

pine leave your hatred for me aside, and look at my points from an objective point of view, thanks.

unless you're the third scum, in which case i dont care

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

shiny you seem to be arguing kitty is scum because she's not acting in a way you'd expect town to act. Did you have a moan at me for doing just that earlier?

circumstances, dude. It's her whole approach on this thing. She didn't for one second consider I could be right. She shrugged everything I said off. She found an answer to make House look better to all of my points. And then she focused on something stupid, that should be the last of her concerns. Yet at the same time, that something stupid boosts House's point and makes him look better.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

dear pine, ill survive the day because im obvtown. and it will stay that way. so if you are town, deal with it, realise it, and go read my points again. if not, you'll die shortly after the other two.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

oh except i am, and the people that matter know it.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

yeah.

so how this game will go now is that the scum will use the fact certain townies have disliked my playstyle and try to reduce my cred. Kitty is doing that by the textbook definition.

Pine could be the third scum also doing that, but my gut tells me he's just typical stupid town who can't understand my ways. We'll see.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

pine if you want my reads you can ask me, you know

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I see no blackmail, anywhere.

yes, wisdom posts alot and is aggressive, sometimes needlessly, but it doesn't mean it's spam or bullying. There is content in each post

~L

By the way, if you want to see blackmail, look at post 794. "Get on my side or die" is the definition of bullying and coercing people into your way.

Town

Does

Not

Do

That

well, you should understand that when you oppose me when ive caught two scum, my immediate thought is that you might be the third scum. you can always prove me wrong by stopping acting on your dislike of my playstyle and actually looking at the game.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

No. I've seen your ways. You react to anyone disagreeing with you by calling them scum, ignore the people that are actually lurking, and bully others into my way or the highway

Fuck off

nope.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Pasche is collectively scum. At least between the two of us, though read explanation isn't a thing that we don't do unless neccessary.

In anycase, I'm here if you want to talk

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You are town, though and Wisdom is being yelled at. Pasche is possibly scum, and house is somewhere down there as well as far as I'm concerned.

Mastins town, farside could be scum, DOMO's probably town through meta, Pine is leaning scum and everyone else is various shades of null.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

yeah.

so how this game will go now is that the scum will use the fact certain townies have disliked my playstyle and try to reduce my cred. Kitty is doing that by the textbook definition.

Pine could be the third scum also doing that, but my gut tells me he's just typical stupid town who can't understand my ways. We'll see.

R~

ill just quote this again and go away from this game for now

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Females are superior beings

but sure

VOTE: Pasche

the read is scum, reasons why aren't entirely neccessary, though what it basically boils down to is fluff, which is what you think wisdom is doing though look through his Iso again. He's spouting out information, over doing analysis and refraining from doing things that will put heat towards his direction, really.

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Neither of us are really apt to explain our reads, so

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

He's being idoticly tunnely.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

*Idiotically

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Kitty what are your thoughts on wreck?

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Anyway, can we stop making wisdom the center of attention even when he's

not

posting?

newbie of the year, here IMO

[Shiny Hydreigon]

He's being idoticly tunnely.

This wasn't me btw, but lold at the reactions

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Big reason for wreck read is the fact that, house has seen town-wisdom play like this in Chairman, and denied his reachout which is actually fairly telling. Especially since the biggest reason for his push on us is the fact that wisdom isn't playing to town-meta (which, yes does exist but is harder to spot then most think)

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I am taking his word on this, but he said somewhere down there he reminded him that he does play like this as town

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

oi house, remember how i kept saying id shoot you in the chairman thingy? dont always take me too seriously. mastin and domo have obvtowned, do you know who caused this?

R~

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

and since mara brought up this, i might as well explain my whole early play in this game.

Like I said in my first posts, this whole playerlist is hard for me because I don't know the majority of the players, and the few I do know (Aronis, House, Bulbazak, mastin) had difficulties at reading.

So I decided to make a few big waves, focused on the people I know, so I can judge both their reactions as well as the reactions of the rest of the playerlist. My pushes on Bulba and mastin were exactly this, I never confidently believed either was scum, I just wanted to see them flail, and I knew that it would work because in all my prior games with Bulba and mastin, I have deathtunneled on both of them. So they were guaranteed to believe I was deathtunneling on them again and act accordingly.

The Pasche read was also like that. I wasn't confident that Pasche was scum, but his tone was annoying me and I could see it being fake. Especially that post where he emphasized "town" in a way that would make him look town. So again I faked being completely confident in that read to see what would happen. Then I moved to Pine because he annoyed me more, and you know the rest.

The TW read is my first serious scumread. All before that, despite how confident I might have made you believe I was, were just to make things happen.

And he still is my only serious scumread. I realize I was probably unreasonable regarding Kitty, and she might have been ignoring my points regarding House out of sheer dislike of the way I was acting, like Pine is doing.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

so im guessing pine and aronis didnt read my explanation

color me surprised

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Hahahaha.


. . .


Wait a minute. That was a serious question?

yes it was. What is with you acting like it's your first time with me? I understand it from people who don't know me like Pine or Kitty, but it doesn't make sense from you. You've seen me catching scum in three games so far yet you treat me like I'm laughable like a clueless newbie who plays their first game with me would do.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Hey Aronis. I know you will probably say "fuck meta" or something, but I invite you to recall/reread this game and consider the following:

TW = Broseidon
Pine = Aegor
Kitty = Impact
you = you

and tell me if you see the similarity.

Everyone else is also welcome to read that game, especially people who don't know me.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

The only stark difference between that game and this game is that there I had three people (Jason, Rach, Xayzeck) who knew me and could trust me, whereas here I have nothing but people who don't know me or don't like me and I can not play the way I play and get results.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Shiny' playstyle reads more like notscience playstyle.

ns has posted like once in the whole game
its wisdom

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

wake's large? yeah i reference that later too, keep it in mind when you read my exchange with house

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

wat

anyway keep reading

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

thats beside the point, do you see the similarity?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Like, what happened that game was that I had caught BROseidon but I was unable to prove he was scum, and he used the fact you and Aegor were disliking my playstyle to make himself look better and me worse. He was practically confscum to me, but he didn't care as long as he could misrep me and get everyone to think that he is town and I'm scum. He succeeded in the end and I got lynched instead of him, but thankfully Jason continued pushing him on D2 so we won.

It's the exact same situation here, but the difference is there is no Jason, no Xayzeck, no Rach to sheep me. Everyone in this playerlist, even including my hydra buddies, are more likely to think I am wrong than understand I am right.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

have you played with bulba before?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

And I reached the end of page 28 where I imagine 2 siblings arguing.
No I'm not you are.
No I'm not you are.

ive said it a lot, but that was house's goal. To write him off as town along with me.

So, since you brought up wake large. Do you not think his push is similar to the one he made on Oka?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

romi just feels lynchbait to me. he hasnt done anything particularly scummy yet he's constantly targetted.

pasche did you read my post where I explained my early play?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

836, that is.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

its not unheard of for newbies to omgus though

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

anyway hes likely getting replaced, so that will prolly solve the problem

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

dont talk about ongoing

i dont really think not voting is indicative. you probably think "why would town not vote" but then why would scum not vote? It's not like they will look bad for making a vote on D1 so dont tell me "hes afraid to commit"

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You don't vote those you believe are scum?

I

do. He is not me.

What I am saying is not voting is not alignment indicative.

place your vote on him.

Talk to mara about that. I find it ridiculous to lynch anyone other than house today so I am not going to vote anyone else.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

dude you ate'd enough, give it a rest

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

its ok im the bad guy everyone thinks youre town now, you can stahp

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Curious: ms m are you scum reading me due to our last game together or another reason?

last game. You burned me there pretty hard, though I'm willing to give some leeway.

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

place our vote where?

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Kitty, with what we kinda sorta talked about last night, do you still think Wreck is town? I also do not think you should move pine to town just because of that one move he's done.

Mastin: whenever you get here, what's your read on wreck?

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I can because I scumhunt through interactions. People think they are noise. They are not for me. House gave up at some point and started dodging the points and twisting the facts. But that's only visible to me because I am the only one who kept up with that in real time. Everyone else of you is reading the whole of it (and most are just skimming through it), and you don't pay attention to such details.

It was the same with BROseidon, and it was the same in one million other games.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You scumhunt through interactions, but sorting through wagons and counter wagons is wasting my time?

I don't know about wasting your time, but so far it continues to be you pretending doing things when you still haven't done anything.

But yes, I do think it will be a waste of time, as any conclusion you come to from wagon sorting without having flips will be forced. Prove me wrong.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Kitty, with what we kinda sorta talked about last night, do you still think Wreck is town? I also do not think you should move pine to town just because of that one move he's done.

Pine is town.
TW... I'm going over with a magnifying glass.

Anything outside the reasons you've already given?

I've got reason to town-pasche now but it's experimental. I need TW's flip to help solidify, would you help?

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I realize that. Pasche isn't in danger of a lynch, yet and it isn't like my vote automatically decides who gets lynched.

wagon control is also a thing

me

I'll be here for the majority of tonight, and I would like to have people on board so we can experience a glorious quicklynch on them

[Shiny Hydreigon]

there's no way in hell we're lynching kitty

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Not without a lot of explanation. Especially since one of the few ways in which I can imagine TW being scum is if he's scum with pasch.

this is incredibly unlikely considering their interactions with each other. Smart scum-association is one thing, what they're doing is tvs or tvt.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Wisdom's pretty convinced, Mastin and I don't think there is anything that's going to convince him otherwise. What he's experienced, in a real-time reaction thing with him isn't something I can completely understand myself, though I do understand how it works and the difficulty of the explination behind that. I'm more than inclined to take his read on this, especially since house himself hasn't pinged any of my radars thus far

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Wisdom isn't here, put that in words that I understand?

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I've already told him Kitty is off the table, though I am more willing to push pine

[Shiny Hydreigon]

if it's tvs, the scum is engineering the interaction between the two of them, and house feels like he's more in control of how the conversation is percieved.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

also (no offence) from what I know of pashe, he isn't capable of doing that kind of high-end manipulation.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

why do you always ignore me mastin?

[Shiny Hydreigon]

The self-voting thing bothered me, and yes I can agree with that sentiment but I'm not a fan of how he executed it.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

IMO, the AtE

feels

like AtE. Not genuine emotion, but an attempt to make an appeal towards it and that always had more scum-motivation to me, than town-motivation.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

IDK if I'd be up for a bulb lynch. it doesn't seem like he has much time, though what time he does have, he does try have interactions. Aside the fact, I've never seen scum-bulb play the brush off the way he did with wisdom before. Am up for a pine lynch, though. above comment on pasche and why he would be town between him and tw

[Shiny Hydreigon]

VOTE: wreck

[Shiny Hydreigon]

fine. I will accept I might be wrong, if only because the rest of my scumreads match yours and the way they are treating both my 1v1 with House and House himself are not what I'd expect from scumbuddies.

I could see both Bulba and Romi being wrong, but then I don't know who else would fit the third scum slot. It is probably one of them.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pasche

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

reads;

mastin2 - obvtown, due to the way he reacted to my fake deathtunnel on him plus the way he's trying to help me get out of my current tunnel (which i wish every town did)
Aronis - weird as hell, though prolly town for it. I don't understand why he keeps pushing his sh/kitty shit, my best bet is he doesn't even believe in it, he's just lost and he's trolling.
Bulbazak - hell if i know. I can't read him for shit, but there have been some things that could have come from town-him. Could be scum too.
Pine - scum, quite clearly. His agenda of PLing me is completely fake, he doesn't care about understanding me, he completely ignored my explanations of my early actions, he quite obviously does not care about figuring out my alignment. Then he has done completely nothing all game, yet dares to call people who are doing things counterproductive. He keeps going about "wagon sorting", yet that never came, nor will it ever come.
Paschendale - I'm reserved here because while he looks like obvscum based on his tone and the way he does things, I'm afraid of it being some stupid town playstyle. More than likely not, though, and I'm just overthinking. I also thought that Pasche must be town if House is scum(and vice versa), since the exchange on both parts didn't look like bussing at all to me.
farside22 - town, most likely. I like the way she has tried to analyse things, don't see any sign of scum motivation. At the same time, I haven't seen anything glaringly obvtown, probably because I do not have much experience with her. Definitely someone I wouldn't lynch right now, anyway.
Total Wreck - yeah. Fuck townies who play like House is and make me endlessly tunnel, if that happens to be the case.
Doubleslap - prolly town? They do their own thing, try to weigh in, but at the same time feel a little distant from the gamestate. They don't comment on things happening. I don't know if that means anything, as it's not easy for everyone to keep up. But my general feeling is town here.
DOMO - obvtown, starting with my exchange with him
Romitelli - hm. newbie. I am prone to writing off newbscum as town, so I probably should not insist that he is town. I just don't agree with the reasons people have said he is scum for, so far. I hope he gets replaced so we can get a better read on this slot.
DrTJeckleburg - He hasn't done much, but I got a town vibe quite easily from his few posts. I certainly want to see more from the slot.
KittyCupCake - Town. I was blinded by my anger when I called her scum, she's town. She might have been a little weird at times, but I attribute that to being new on the site.

So, imo, it's Pasche/Pine/x, with x being in {Bulba, Romi}, and outside chance on {farside, DrT, Doubleslap, Aronis}. That's IF I was wrong about House.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

tl;dr of the above: House is paranoid of Kitty defending him.

I did notice it, House, except I called it "defending her scumpartner and trying to make me look bad along with you". With you being town however, I don't see scum motivation in that. Your point about creating a chaotic environment is bad, because if that was the case, then she would support

my

points instead, help me lynch you, then turn against me when you flipped town. Because I cause a much more chaotic environment than you do.

So no. She is town, and her defending on you can be explained by the fact I am terrible in getting support. She disliked me, and that made her like you and defend you.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Also, I'm not interested in a Pine lynch before D3 at the earliest.

He does his best work on wagon & vote count analyses, which we won't have much to work with until then.

If he's not contributing Pine-quality analyses by D3, I'm down for feeding him rope.

uh huh. He's

known

for such a thing? That explains why he keeps spamming about it. It's a "keep me alive because I can do that" thing. Titus does the same.

That makes me much more confident he is scum.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Still. Think from a scum-Kitty perspective. Would she risk the danger of disagreeing with me and drawing my anger, all when I was making it obvious that I was thinking she is town, and thus destroy my read on her? Just after she has seen what happens when I scumread someone?

I don't think so. There's not much to win, there's a ton to lose.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Pasche, on the other hand? Despite him being relevant to the topic of our exchange, he managed to stay as far away from it as he could. See 725. He dismisses our exchange as useless, yet refrains to call any of us town. Yet by his recent posts, we are both in his top 3 scumreads, apparently.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Not really much to lose. All she'd have to do is let me get lynched, and she'd look righteous while you'd have town blood on your hands. Or NK me, and she could preach all about how she told you so.

Agreed. So why work against that by actively trying to undermine my points against you and therefore make your lynch less likely to happen?

I understand why you're getting paranoid, but she's town.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I've been there since game start for reasons he admits can come from town.

which makes his distance from 1v1 even more damning. If he thought you are scum, he would be supporting me, not asking us to shut up because "we are blabbermouths".

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

For the very thing you're giving her. Town cred.

lol no. For that she would have to look into the future and predict I'd stop scumreading you. Which even I wouldn't predict, much less someone who doesn't know me.

Unless what you're trying to say is, she tried to buddy me by helping me out of my tunnel? In which case, no, because calling me a hypocrite and focusing on me explaining my Pasche read is not a great way to buddy.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Besides, if I forget the fact I know I am town and why I am doing the things I am doing, and delete my knowledge of having the real-time reactions from you which was what was driving me, and therefore look at the whole thing from an objective point of view, I would probably think like Kitty. She saw a very annoying person and a less annoying person that she was townreading already. Ofc she will defend the latter and focus on the former. When I asked Mara why Kitty would defend you like that if she is town and not even consider you might be scum, she simply told me, because you're annoying. And she's right.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

After building town cred and cashing in on my death when you had worked so hard to sell TW!scum, she'd come out smelling like a rose and people would start questioning your alignment.

But that's what I'm telling you. If she wanted you to actually get lynched, she wouldn't try and show how I am wrong. She could state something generic like "from this 1v1, I like House more", but she would not actively fight against my push on you, because that would lessen the possibility of you getting lynched.

And there's no way she would NK you either. You said what the reasons are yourself.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

no clue but i just explained in length why kitty is town, so if you actually think she is scum, you are wrong and you need to reconsider

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

domo pls tell me you're trolling

anyway marquis is a head of doubleslap, and that post was not intended to vote bulbazak at all

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

marquis why is pine in "dont lynch"?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

@Double: Neither posting "kill" instead of "vote" or gambiting a dayvig earns you any special town points.

he never argued so? maybe you wanted to direct that to domo.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

you def are slow, domo, he was trolling and is still trolling

Marquis, what has Pine "given" to this game so far exactly?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

he doesnt believe your gambit was real. he was trolling.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Post 1002 is a good example of how it's still going on

Post 1002 was my reads, so I take it you disagree with them. If that's the case, discuss what you disagree on with me instead of trying to misrep them.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Yeh pasche is so obvious that I'm not even bothering responding.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You think just because you drown everyone else out that we won't see it? None of us are as stupid as you seem to think we are.

Like, in no time and space would this ever come from town

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I don't agree. This post from Bulba felt townier.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Aronis I've had enough of this. I've forgiven everything you've posted because I know you're not good at this game, but this is starting to annoy me. All of your scumreads are obvtown, especially me. They don't make any sense, and you are not making any attempt to fix them. I have ignored you as a troll but it doesn't look like you're stopping this anytime soon so I'm trying to think you're just terrible scum who doesn't know what to do. You at least had actual reasons and actual arguments when you suspected me in other games, here you don't make any kind of sense.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

so I'm

trying

to think

starting*

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Why am I scum again?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Yeah. And now that we established you're still trolling, I repeat. Start doing this seriously because you're only being a fucking distraction right now.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Mastin what are your thoughts on Aronis?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Why is that? Do you see some sort of town motivation?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I've done some rereading and I'm actually pretty sure Bulba is town. The things I actually found scummy at first now look like town to me. His recent posts have also given me nothing but townvibes. And what's more, I find myself agreeing, even if not fully, with his points against mastin. I wonder if mastin has everyone fooled she's town.

I then found that mastin soft defended Aronis early on, in 297, instead of letting farside question him. I believe Bulba caught this as well. Given mastin's nature of defending her scumbuddies, I'm paranoid of a mastin/Aronis team right now.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Pasche: I'm willing to forget everything you've done and start anew. Can you tell me what your scumreads are right now and exactly why? I want to see your full thought process behind each read.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I agree, I'm not saying we should lynch mastin today, but it's something I want voiced because I'm afraid that if mastin is scum she will just kill bulba and whoever else suspects her and she will then easily coast in a town that considers her obvtown.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

well I tried

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Aronis was mocking my criticism of his scumreads, kitty

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

his convo with total wreck was really scummy, and his approach and mindset make me think scum at this point.

Why? Where exactly do you see scum motivation?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Re: your domo case: Why do you associate rapid changes in reads with scum? If anything, scum are more likely to have sticky reads, while town change their reads dynamically as things happen. Also, people usually don't explain every single read change inthread. If you feel some of domo's reads were unwarranted, why not question him about them?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

A Shiny, Kitty, or TW wagon? Excellent ideas.

Then explain these three scumreads in detail so you can get support. Just saying so won't make them happen, will it?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Mastin posts don't ease my paranoia at all :/

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Dude, I've explained my reads in detail. Where have you done anything that even remotely resembles explaining?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Aronis, my questions

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

But you think I exhibited scum motivation somewhere, otherwise why did you think I'm scum?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You're doing the same thing I told domo earlier. You expect certain things from town. Different people play town differently, so that is unreasonable to expect.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Basically, you're calling people whose playstyles you dislike scum. That's not how it goes. Look for motivation.

R~

Pedit: I am not asking for one post. I am asking what you have seen from me in general that makes you believe I have a scum agenda I'm forwarding.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

What if he wasn't sure and pushed them for reactions? Why are you just assuming that the lack of reasoning posted equals no reasoning existing?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Your motivations don't seem well, because you are overly confident in your reads and that allows you to shut off any chances of you being wrong and thus ignoring any other ideas, so you can easily get a mislynch. Town should strive to be open minded, you are not.

Confidence is not a scumtell though. What prevents you from thinking I am town who thinks he is right about his reads? Especially when you've played with me before and know I am like this?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Still, they are two things you know go together with town-me, so?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

"blah blah blah" is necessary for figuring out people.

Two slots have posted too little, we do need to hear from them.

And if you want a lynch why aren't you on Pasche?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

And then theres us

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I liked it more when people didn't know who R is :/

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Now it's known I'm in the hydra, at first I was a secret head

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Bulba, I find myself agreeing with everything you post about mastin (like, I even thought there is something off with her "rage misspelling" but didn't actually look for what it was exactly), but seriously, you're completely wrong on TW. That post you quoted from him is very town, not only because all that "scum plz dont read it" wording is not something scum would do, but because paranoia about people townreading you is largely a town thing. And Kitty's way of defending him WAS alarming at first glance and completely guarantees such paranoia.

Get on Pasche. We're not lynching TW, and as much as I'd like to clear my paranoia about Mastin asap, we're not lynching Mastin today.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

oh I missed 1003
VOTE: tw
yeah this a good d1 lynch

I don't like this at all. Weren't you scumreading Bulbazak? Why do you sheep him like this?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

The Total Wreck wagon is a total wreck. He's as town as town can be.

Not really sure what to think of the Pasche wagon, he just feels like such an easy target.

You didn't answer my last question.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

d1 end is 9 days? jfc I thought it was 2 days. Well there's no need for me to panic vote pasch. Quite what we're gonna do for another 9 days is a mystery.

UNVOTE:

i dont get this behavior. So do you want a lynch quickly like you were claiming or not? How did the fact we have more time change that?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

This is definitely a typical day 1 push on me. I rub people the wrong way, their guts tell them that I'm scum, the people I accuse decide that I absolutely must be scum and will stop at nothing to see me die... and I almost always flip town.

Then start doing things. I am asking you to explain your scumreads and you are refusing to do it.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

So I'll ask again, if you want a flip like you're saying why are you not helping get one by staying on Pasche?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

That's interesting. Why do you think Pasche isn't scum?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I feel like pasche is a jester or something, it's like he wants to be lynched. He isnt even trying and I can't see town OR scum playing so bad.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

He actually did mention mastin was also defending him in the same post you quoted.

I can see both being town and defending him though, why not?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I thought you were saying you can't see both kitty and mastin being town defending him, but then i got it

Anyway, he did mention mastin was also defending him, but he found that one natural.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

If anything, it feels you're wking him rather than bussing. It's like you're calling him a mislynch but you're not strongly taking that stance either

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You don't care if we lynch town? Like, you feel he's lynchbait yet are okay with it? How does that work?

R~

Pedit: what more does he need to do to scum it up? He's already being as scummy as one can get.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

This is actually a really, really, REALLY good post by Pasch.

You have to be kidding. There's absolutely nothing good in that post. He demands explanations for scumreads when he never in the whole game has given any for his own scumreads. It's a terrible post.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Bulb is scum

No he isn't. You are though, most likely.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I have no clue what's happening. Pasche is making no attempt to post seriously and stop the wagon on him. Mastin defends and tries to lynch him at the same time. Domo defends him as if he knows he's town and makes no attempts to get a read on him.

The easiest answer is that pasche is town who decided to be useless for some reason and mastin/domo are scum, or at least one of them. But I really don't get this play from Pasche. I've seen him playing better than this.

UNVOTE:

Pasche. Here. I'm unvoting you. Can you please start playing properly?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

And "scummy as one can get" is a matter of opinion, and it seems our opinions differ.

I respect that, but you're making it clear what your opinion is. You have nowhere fought against the Pasche wagon, and you're not explaining why he is not scum either.
Yet at the same time, you say you don't care if we lynch him either.
The only thing I can understand from this is that you don't have any kind of read on Pasche. In which case, why are you not trying to get one?

Your Wreck vote is bad.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Also my crazy theory is mastin/romi scum.

Entirely possible, but I don't really get the romi scumread. You seem to understand that scummy behavior can be caused by weird playstyles given your 1232, so shouldn't that apply even more to Romi since he is a newbie?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

but you're making it clear what your opinion is.

but you're

not

making it clear*

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

That doesn't make sense. Either you think Pasche is town posting and doesn't need your attention, in which case explain the townread, or you don't, in which case you should be trying to get a read.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

no. Leave the hats where they are and talk to me about Pasche.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

As for wreck saying he's bussing his buddy mastin... well aside from the fact that it's specifically against the rules to claim scum with someone else, even as a joke, as stated in OP, which I've read now, I've only ever ONCE seen someone say something along those lines, and guess what, it was scum bussing a buddy.

This reasoning is ridiculous. Lots of people say things like that. Here is me-town doing it.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

This is literally the worst I've ever played as town on d1

Inability just sounds like a nice excuse for scummy behavior. What did you do better the previous times you were town? Why are you not doing it here?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

The fact you realize you are useless yet do nothing about it, maybe? Why do you play if you're going to be lazy?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

fine

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

pasche plz

you cant seriously believe what you've been doing is the best you can do as town

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I have contributed more than anyone. I have exchanged with people and made them show their motivations. I constantly try to find motives behind things. I try to make lazy and apathetic people start talking.

Like you say, no matter how much you repeat that I make "noise", it won't make it true.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

And what is your substance? I am asking you for a simple thing. Tell us what your scumreads are and what exactly led you to them. Where you found scum motivation. You are refusing to do it and keep whining about how your wagon is a compromise wagon and how you have done things when in reality you have done nothing.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

he changed it to mastin

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

is that pie + gif? if so, thats awesome

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

no, and explain why you're sheeping bulba while supposedly scumreading him

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

are you kidding me?

VOTE: bulbazak

idk guys bulba just ~feels~ like a scum lynch ya feel? like there are so many wagons I'm having "wait I am having town!doubts / got a minor townvibe from a post of theirs" that a bulba lynch when I've not had any townvibes at all from him just feels... right, now? like while i dont have an explicit scumread on him right now there are so many people who feel relatively town in comparison. does anyone get that

let's lynch pasch or bulb this fine and fair d1
read on kfc has receded as of now

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

VOTE: doubleslap

note that this is also a viable mastin partner - see how she has been calling him town for little to no reason early on

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

VOTE: mastin

whatever ill end up there anyway

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

thats quite obviously not scumposting

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

marquis get on mastin, we're not lynching tw

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

i dont know the other head so im just gonna call you both marquis

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

LEAVE ME ALONE MASTIN, I'M WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES

heh

I'm reading along, mostly but life takes prescendence

[Shiny Hydreigon]

oh, fuck this

VOTE: Bulb

Mastin's like, crazy obv town

[Shiny Hydreigon]

or, actually, can we lynch pine? he's the only real one we agree on

[Shiny Hydreigon]

UNVOTE:

I'm most definitely not leaving our vote on town bulba

GIF is town

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

We'll never agree on any lynch at this point and we'll end up deadline lynching. gj scum

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I'd much rather lynch TW, Shiny, or Kitty, though.

Meanwhile pasche keeps playing the same song over and over

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

As off as they are, I'm actually liking the more recent Mastin posts. TW is still scum.

No he isn't. And I don't understand what you liked from mastin either.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Mastin's like, crazy obv town

yeah fucking no

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I'd much rather lynch TW, Shiny, or Kitty, though.

Meanwhile pasche keeps playing the same song over and over

R~

Man whoever's read that is it sucks.
Even worse than notsci's reads.

what do you mean here? That Pasche's reads suck?

ns never posted any reads, what are you talking about?

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

L is Mara

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

GIF, you're a terrible person

VOTE: Pine

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Personally I feel like gif's entrance is town as fuck, so mastin not liking him smacks of fear.

It's fucking mastin. I'm sure there are people she's scared of, but GIF isn't going to be one of them IMO.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Pine/Farside/(Aronis/notmafia)

here is our starting point

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Mastin, Wisdom and I talked and I understand where his read on bulb is coming from, and I understand bulbs intent a little better. I think we're better off letting him into our town-block though

[Shiny Hydreigon]

At last a good post from pasche. Keep it up.

R~

(Everything before that was ~L btw)

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Personally I haven't liked the way she sheeps whoever I suspect too easily. I feel like she's buddying me and relying on my bad pushes to mislynch town. I found her rage when I feigned tunneling on her in early game very town, but then I thought that maybe she's faking it because she knows I will find it town. I have liked all of Bulba's points regarding her. I haven't liked her Bulba push at all.

but... Mara tells me I'm wrong, so shrug

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

nah usually my tunnels arent feigned but the ones on bulba, mastin and pasche in the beginning were

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Also, screw it, farside goes to the town pile. Don't care if I'm wrong, she's so town that even if she's scum she's town.

Is this meta-related? Because I haven't seen anything from farside that screams town. Sure, she looks town, but nothing that couldn't easily be done by scum. If town is really buried in noise and scum are coasting, she is the first who comes to mind as possible coasting scum.

[Shiny Hydreigon]

^
R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Also, screw it, farside goes to the town pile. Don't care if I'm wrong, she's so town that even if she's scum she's town.

Mastin, please don't do this

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

I don't like anything in farside's wall. Her arguments are too shallow and could be easily be explained by town motivation too. Considering the fact she is claiming to consider the effect of different playstyles, I call bullshit.

Note that this is coming from me, who has agreed with almost everything Bulba has said about mastin. Because the things Bulba has pointed out are actually things that make mastin look scummy. Farside's things? Nothing. She sits there and argues over why mastin moves her reads around or why she doesn't post what she would like her to.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

scum reads dont have to be explained, nor understood. She scumreads bulba, and thats it.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

farside is scum just so you guys know

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

scum reads dont have to be explained, nor understood. She scumreads bulba, and thats it.

R~

*smacks wisdom*
Go ask Mara if it makes sense to have a case and reasons on one player but not the other.

uhm... what? gut reads are a thing.

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

What are you planning on gaining with appealing to me like, this though?

~L

[Shiny Hydreigon]

pine/farside/x

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

That wasn't the point, Pasche. I guess you're not even reading now. I wasn't talking about me explaining my reads. I was explaining how farside is full of shit. But sure, look the other way.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You need to Shut. The. Fuck. Up. All you are doing is helping scum win.

No all I'm doing is catching scum but I'll be ignored as usual

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Oh I'm not explaining my scum reads just to be an ass to shiny.

You've explained them already. According to you, mastin is scum because he's not doing all the town things you'd like her to, Not_Mafia is scum because romitelli played like all newbs do, and aronis is scum for being Aronis. We get it, there's no reason for further explanation.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Yeah House because the topic here is whether I explain my scumreads or not

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

scum reads dont have to be explained, nor understood. She scumreads bulba, and thats it.

R~

Hey people that fail at reading

This was about mastin not explaining her bulba scumread like farside is claiming, it had nothing to do with me or my scumreads. But keep failing at reading by all means.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Well yeah that's what you're betting on. That people will prioritize disliking me rather than figuring out who is scum. And it's a safe bet, unfortunately.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Not_Mafia slot has had "mislynch fodder" written all over it since the beginning. Dunno about Mara, but you're not getting my vote on that wagon.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

You've nowhere tried to figure out scum. Your scumreads are too shallow and weak. There is no scumhunting motivation.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

The slot isn't mislynch fodder because of N_M. It's because of Romitelli. He did absolutely nothing scummy yet people constantly seeked reasons to scumread him.

N_M being good as town has no relevance here. He has done nothing so far, which can be attributed to apathy.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

He will never listen because lurking and posting vague reads are a town quality in his book.

Yet you're ignoring Pine completely.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Except Mastin-town is more than capable of explaining her reads.

So fucking what? Mastin not playing to your idea of an ideal townie somehow makes her scum? Wash she even asked to explain the read? Why is it a big deal she didn't?

I respect your own points for mastin-scum but farside's ones are a bunch of bullshit.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

He will never listen because lurking and posting vague reads are a town quality in his book.

Yet you're ignoring Pine completely.

R~

Looks at scum list
Looks at wisdom
Looks at maybe scum on pine
Looks at wisdom again

Smacks wisdom

Exactly, maybe scum, and you haven't ever cared about lynching him. As opposed to Not_Mafia slot.

R~

[Shiny Hydreigon]

Selective apathy is a thing so that doesn't help much unfortunately.

You have Romi as null. Look at the people who scumread romi and their reasons. Tell me he isn't mislynch fodder.

R~