Mini 1633 ~ Non-normal Mafias Mafia OVER!!!

[House]

VOTE: Titus

Policy Vote.

[House]

House replaces Fuduzn!

Oh dear god

I saw your name and knew I had to jump in here.

<3

[House]

(essensaly her not voting me and saying she wont implies to me shes town reading me, but not doing much to dismantle the wagon

I'm not voting you and have no desire to do so.

Am I WK'ing you?

[House]

(essensaly her not voting me and saying she wont implies to me shes town reading me, but not doing much to dismantle the wagon

I'm not voting you and have no desire to do so.

Am I WK'ing you?

depends on the reason

why

your not

titus is using a lame-ass excuse of saying im a jester (the sc2 variation where a guilty voter dies if lynched)

you just replaced in so either:

A) your scum and you knwo im town so it easier to WK me/not vote me
B) your town and you read me as town
C) *insert reason here*

"I'll take Option C" - Travis/The Run Down

I'm town and I have no read on you yet.

[House]

I suppose I should have said "intentional self voting is never okay"

How does one unintentionally self-vote?

[House]

Pasch is saying Zombeh was a noon and therefore not scum. So when it comes to Zombeh, Pasch takes into account the specific player ("Zombeh is a noob so self-voting isn't scummy for him") but when it comes to ika, he doesn't ("ika's self-vote is scummy regardless of ika's meta"). Pasch also maintains that he wasn't defending Zombeh, just attacking the players for voting him. That's scummy because Pasch is refusing to tie himself to a position - instead

he's focused on attacking or commenting on others reason ing.

Town are looking for the scum so they take positions on alignments; scum are looking for ways to look engaged without having to look for scum. Pasch is doing the latter (lots of commentary on what others say but very little attempt to tie that commentary to alignment).

How is that alignment indicative? I tend to do it as well, as town. Find bad reasons, and you find scum.

[House]

I suppose I should have said "intentional self voting is never okay"

How does one unintentionally self-vote?

Doing so by not understanding what you're doing or its implications.

Self-voting outside of self-hammering is a null tell. I've seen it happen from frustrated town and scum both. As scum, it's AtE. As town, it's surrender/fukitol.

Instantly writing off self-votes as scummy is scummy.

Self-hammering is an exception because it has an immediate benefit for scum in shutting down communication.

[House]

I suppose I should have said "intentional self voting is never okay"

You can be damn sure I'm looking for scum. I've found two good candidates so far. I found two instances of players pushing lynches for shallow or faked reasons and getting in the way of genuine scumhunting. Tell me, are you just chainsawing me in order to defend Ika? Cuz that's what it looks like you're doing. You're intentionally misrepping my actions in order to diffuse my case on Ika.

And that's precisely what I'd do as scum if I were the kind of player to defend my buddies (I'm more of a busser).

Attacking the arguments but not the player leaves your hands clean of a dirty townread when they flip scum.

[House]

@House, and if ika's tiwn causing drama for drama's sake?

Speed scroll his posts.

Give him the Amish treatment. They shun troublemakers in their society, refusing to talk to or even look at them.

[House]

@House, and if ika's tiwn causing drama for drama's sake?

Speed scroll his posts.

Give him the Amish treatment. They shun troublemakers in their society, refusing to talk to or even look at them.

Basically, don't sacrifice town's win con for a spite lynch.

[House]

@House, and if ika's tiwn causing drama for drama's sake?

Speed scroll his posts.

Give him the Amish treatment. They shun troublemakers in their society, refusing to talk to or even look at them.

Basically, don't sacrifice town's win con for a spite lynch.

That's why I am not voting ika.

Why did you say town's wincon though?

Because I'm totally scum! zOMG, the great Titus has hunted me!

Your sister can read me better than you can. It's okay, no need to be bitter.

[House]

ITT: Titus frustrated at not being able to scumread me because I'm obvtown.

[House]

House, there's a difference between "scumhunting" and "attacking bad reasoning." Town do the former, which sometimes entails the latter. Scum only do the latter, which makes them look engaged when they're not actually scumhunting. Pasch attacked bad reasoning - the question is whether he was scumhunting or just trying to look engaged. I think he wasn't scumhunting because Pasch insists he wasn't defending Zombeh or attacking the players voting for Zombeh. What was Pasch trying to accomplish then? Pasch says he was just attacking bad cases, i.e. he wasn't scumhunting, he was just attacking bad reasoning. He didn't develop any reads. He didn't stop anyone from voting Zombeh (at least that wasn't his intention, according to his claim that he wasn't defending Zombeh).

That there's a lot of words to basically echo 904.

[House]

Self-voting outside of self-hammering is a null tell. I've seen it happen from frustrated town and scum both. As scum, it's AtE. As town, it's surrender/fukitol.

Instantly writing off self-votes as scummy is scummy.

Self-hammering is an exception because it has an immediate benefit for scum in shutting down communication.

I've actually only ever seen town self-hammer. But I've seen scum self-vote for sympathy pretty often. Either way, the self-vote is only a small part of my case on Ika. It's interesting that FourTrouble is ignoring the entire rest of my case.

Why would you choose to argue about whether self-hammering is scummy or not, when it's too late to form a read post-hammer?

Give him the Amish treatment. They shun troublemakers in their society, refusing to talk to or even look at them.

And if that's his intention? Because that's a scum tactic I've seen before. Why do you automatically dismiss this possibility?

A shunned player becomes a non-entity. Titus wasn't asking about scum causing drama. She specifically said

town

.

If Tom is reading Dick as scum and Dick is being a drama whore, why would Tom ignore him when he could find proof of Dick's scumminess in the drama to convince Harry? That doesn't mean Sally has to pore over Dick's posts if she thinks Dick is just dick town.

-----

Not liking how Pasch is promoting giving drama whores an audience. That said, I don't think it's alignment indicative as much as it is a difference of opinion.

[House]

VOTE: Titus

Policy Vote.

Dear lord, more policy lynching? Holy shit.

My vote actually had nothing to do with the game itself. It's tradition.

Also welcome to our shitty game, House.

Thanks! )

Midget, the suspicion on Pasch has nothing to do with Om. Take a look at his votes. He defends Zombeh for self-voting, then jumps on ika when he self-votes. He hasn't done anything significant this game other than attack the reasoning others use - so his play is reactive (just sitting on the outside), inconsistent, and opportunistic (voting ika).

I don't know, I've been pretty opportunistic this game too.
I don't understand why we don't just lynch the both of them and be done with it sometimes, its like an old married couple in here.

Is that old married couple scum?

I suppose I should have said "intentional self voting is never okay"

How does one unintentionally self-vote?

Re-read game, vote player, then realize you voted the slot you replaced into. AKA Amished.

Does that make the slot scum? I've read about the Amished tell, and tbh I'm not a fan. But I guess Pasch views such a vote as acceptable, since he makes the distinction.

@eyestott: stop 5-posting please.

Is this a better way to respond? A lot of people hate so many quotes because it makes responding more difficult for those who aren't comfortable with BB Code.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

>votes major wagon
>0 justification

You're a part of the problem, become a part of the solution or eat some rope.

I can sheep this.

VOTE: Flubbs

[House]

4: The easiest to deal with on mobile is the post tag, since it links the post without taking a lot of screen space. Second easiest is to address the player as I did. I got lazy.

When you're addressing several different points in the same post, a post tag isn't enough.

[House]

House, why aren't you on Pasch? Flubs is a shitty lynch for Today - we'll learn a lot about his alignment based on Pasch's flip.

Pasch is the easy wagon. He's often mislynched as town because he plays a scummy town game.

I'm not townreading him because of that, but I'm not interested in a D1 lynch on him based on what's out there so far.

[House]

@MathBlade:

1) What is your current read of eyestott?
2) Assume eyestott was my alt (It's not, but just for this question)... does that affect your read of him? If so, how?

[House]

Shit, wrong Math...

ignore my last post.

[House]

P.edit: wrong game. Do we have similar play styles or something?

Right game. Wrong Math.

I can't comment on our playstyles unless I know your former account, which I don't.

[House]

So, you're asking mathdino, the guy who is being replaced?

I said WRONG MATH.

[House]

I'm confused. Who was the question directed at?

MathBlade, who I had confused with Dino.

[House]

What do you think of my case? In fact, what do you think of me?

You don't want me to ISO you, because from a cursory glance I'd votepark you on 18 alone.

[House]

You know what would be hilarious?

I think it would be hilarious if eyestott was the arsonist and there was no fireman in this setup at all.

[House]

Oh what the hey, why not...

VOTE: eyestott

If I were making the posts you've been making, I'd be totes scum.

[House]

Oh what the hey, why not...

VOTE: eyestott

If I were making the posts you've been making, I'd be totes scum.

Eh, ok.
I mean, I can be like "Nooo don't vote me I'm town" but that won't accomplish anything.

I would have unvoted you if you had. I'm funny like that.

Missed your shot now, though.

Interesting that you don't ask me why your posts would be so scummy if I were the one making them. It's telling how you simply accepted my logic without question.

[House]

Oh what the hey, why not...

VOTE: eyestott

If I were making the posts you've been making, I'd be totes scum.

I need more from you about Pasch. You're avoiding voting him even though you think he's scummy. Please elaborate more.

I said all I have to say about him for the time being.

[House]

Four (and apparently Titus), look at the following posts and actually read them this time. If you're still confused, then I'll have to conclude that you're just lying or are illiterate. Hint: It's spelled out clearly in the second of these posts.

782
835
896
936

Titus vs Eye looks town vs town to me. It's more emotional and looks more like a simple argument than anyone really being duplicitous.

But seriously, this wagon on me is so full of willful ignorance and OMGUS that just makes me sad.

Post tags are your friend.

[House]

Titus I don't like your townread on me.

I don't like this. Weird for town to say this.

No it's not. Poor justification is poor justification regardless of whether a person is being read as scum or town.

[House]

You know what would be hilarious?

I think it would be hilarious if eyestott was the arsonist and there was no fireman in this setup at all.

I reckon eye is SK.

Why the hell would I claim a role like this? In fact, why would I have a role like this?

I don't think you are town.
You claimed extinguisher
It is unlikely you are arson as thia would be a risky tactic.
If you were an SK then you would know it was unlikely there would be an arson, and so it would be a decent gambit.

That really depends on the kill flavor.

If the mod uses kill flavor, his gambit would be utter shit.

[House]

House's reasons:
1: Post 18 alone is worthy of a votepark. :1
Why? What is scummy about preferring not to vote non scum reads? When was not participating in RVS a scumtell?

Not voting isn't indicative. Feeling the need to proactively defend your decision not to vote, however... well that says to me that you're scum wanting to avoid suspicion.

3: I accepted your logic without question. :3
Firstly, when you voted me, it was 2:49 am. I was tired, and not in my right mind.
Second, why would I question it? I mean, I havent played much with you either. I dont know how similar our play is.

Projecting one's own logic on another is flawed reasoning. Why

wouldn't

you question it?

[House]

I mean, why should your style affect my alignment?

And you should have said as much in response to my vote.

[House]

I mean, why should your style affect my alignment?

And you should have said as much in response to my vote.

Well, I have now, when I'm more aware.

Would have meant more if you had done it before I called you out on it.

[House]

@Paschendale: Who is the scum on your wagon?

[House]

I mean, why should your style affect my alignment?

And you should have said as much in response to my vote.

Well, I have now, when I'm more aware.

Would have meant more if you had done it before I called you out on it.

Yeah, well, too bad.

So... when are you going to set up that hydra?

[House]

You mean our hydra?

Uh huh.

[House]

I don't like either of these wagons on D1, on reflection.

I don't want either one of them lynched D1. Pasch because he's an easy mislynch. eyestott because I want to see the kill flavors.

UNVOTE:

I'll look for somwhere else to vote in a bit.

[House]

I just sent you a message.
What spurred you to make 1036?
Did your opinion change in some way?

Not at all. "I'm down with that" = "Fine by me".

[House]

if kill flavour matters, 2 gun kills is an auto ghostlin lynch.

So you're assuming there will be no arsonist?

[House]

Right. Gunsmith claim.

[House]

Nope.
Gun Sensus.

Census.

And it's pretty much the same thing.

[House]

Pasch and I are in thread Masons.

Eye, why are you acting entitled? 1026 is telling MTD "what he needs to do". It's not as if you're going to self vote if he does it. It reads of discrediting a case. If only he had done that, his scumread might be valid. Yet, you have been acting desperate not to be suspected all game.

Please can you explain what inthread masons are?

It means Titus is trying to align with Pasch by appearing to protect him.

VOTE: Titus

[House]

I totally agree.

[House]

Vote stays.

Thats very uncooperative MTD. You should know better.

Is his vote usually sticky?

[House]

I will change vote if needed but rn no wagon has more than 4 votes.

So, youll onmly be one of the last 2 votes on a wagon? Why? Thats just opportunistic.

P.edit: I dont know, but I'm just trolling him at the moment, as we're talking in voice chat.

You already mentioned that once.

[House]

VOTE: eyestott

My... neighbor... and I agree on this read.

[House]

Uhm, you claiming neighbor now?

No, I'm telling you that my scum buddy and I agreed to sell eyestott as a mislynch today.

/sarcasm

[House]

OMG GUYS SCUM CLAIM
I can't really do anything to help clear up an unexplained vote. Are your reasons for scumreading me a secret?
Besides, I already know i'm being scumread by people.

So we need to explain what you already know?

That makes complete sense.

[House]

i fckin told you all she was scum i s2g
i wanna see pasch push the fucking shit lynch choice case on me now

Awesome you bussed titus gg

How does one bus a cult leader on D1?

[House]

No RVS from me.
Not voting till I scumread.

This is the beginning of my scum read of him. Not the fact he didn't RVS, but the fact he felt it was necessary to point it out.

He addressed that, but I still don't like it.

I'm thinking of revealing a small piece of information I have about the setup.
I'm not too sure whether it would benefit town or scum more, though.

Since when is information bad for town? I'm not buying the thought process behind this post.

I mean, I know of a specific (likely) antitown role that is almost definitely in the game.

Not necessarily a mafia.
I'm an extinguisher.
Now, the arson could be town too, but I'm not so sure.
He could be a 3P.

When has arsonist ever been town?

I think he's the arsonist with conflicting emotions, wanting to play a town game but restricted by his win con.

You didn't use that logic last game.
Metal, care to comment on my reveal, and the implications?

Holy shit om you are in this game too???

You gonna answer my question, kind sir?

Feels like he's concerned about whether town has an interest in outing the arsonist. Self-preservation?

Oh crap, yeah.
like with me, don't say anything that you think will be antitown to reveal.

If he is town, how could he possibly reveal anything more than he has that would make it anti-town?

The fact he's not

preventing

fires, perhaps? (Unless he decides not to utilize his night actions, of course)

We need to stop fuelling the discussion of the lurker lynch. Either we do it, or we shut up about it and focus on real hunting.
I will not comment on this anymore unless specifically asked to.

Seems kinda tryhard.

Thinking about it I don't know how to start the game up again because it's basically rvs, lurker bitching, then brakes.

All those in favor of a second rvs by page 19 say I.

How would it work?
This is not an invitation to vwte me.

(Corrected for clarity)

Why would he be concerned if people put a vote on him during a 2nd RVS? He seems paranoid af... but not of scum.

This is just purely for symmetry. UNVOTE: . Now its a 5 way tie!
VOTE: FuD.

Where's the town motivation for that post? Scum/3P don't really care who's lynched, as long as it isn't them. I get the feeling from eyestott's general behavior that he has that same mindset.

Why do you think Om is not active? He is to me.

The Om focus is to generate conflict and force people to take sides and make reads easier. I could have focused on anyone but getting details from Pasch helps me read both.

Why do you not want to discuss Om? What is your read on him?

Sorry, the other active players.
I never said I didnt want to discuss Om.

I'm not sure on my Om read anymore.
Ill have another look at the case on him, then ill make a decision.

you are making me so much happier with random's vote
at the height of the argument you change your views without reason
now that the tables are beginning to turn so do you

I will explain this.
First though, can you tell me your scum reads, your town reads, and your null reads?
Reasoning is not needed.

Why would he not want reasoning for another player's reads? Those that don't want to post reasons aren't going to anyway.

VOTE: ika
Either a self vote from mafia to try and look town, or a self vote telling us that even if we mislynch him, his role is not powerful enough to be extremely detrimental.

Seriously? This isn't town-think.

Spoiler: something unrelated that isnt necessarily informative

The three people voting me are all people who either replaced in, or werent here for the majority of the game. I'm not sure if theres a correlation, though.

Tries to disclaim his analysis while undermining his own wagon, in case someone calls shenanigans.

You know what would be hilarious?

I think it would be hilarious if eyestott was the arsonist and there was no fireman in this setup at all.

I reckon eye is SK.

Why the hell would I claim a role like this? In fact, why would I have a role like this?

Because you're the arsonist.


----

I believe eyestott is 3P, not groupscum.

[House]

I definitely see the paranoia from Eye. A lot of what he says involves asking for reassurance or agreement from everyone else. At least with regard to his role. On that subject, I think it's very interesting that no one was burned (unless FourTrouble was and the mod isn't differentiating kill types - otherwise I assume he was the regular night kill). Eye should be rather eager to reveal who he prevented from being burned or prevented from burning others, whichever his power does. If Eye were a 3P killer, I don't think he'd be shy about using his power, and no one counteclaimed him as an "extinguisher" or anything like that, so I don't think that he's an arsonist. If he's a 3P, then there probably is no arsonist and he'd be a regular SK. But again, only the one kill last night. It's a bit perplexing.

But I generally agree about the seeming not to be on anyone's side and trying to look like he is. He doesn't seem to have an overall goal (scumhunting, coordinating with allies, etc), and seems to just be trying to float along. It's definitely food for thought.

I seriously doubt that Om or Midget put much thought into their votes, though. I'm really not liking how eagerly they hurled themselves onto this wagon, without reasons, and when asked Om refused to give any. I distrust any wagon she's in favor of at this point.

He probably didn't get counterclaimed because there is no such role as "extinguisher".

[House]

But there is firefighter, which is what that role is normally called.

Precisely. But he didn't know that, because he isn't one.

[House]

you wanna say im not helping then dont fucking attack my lynch choice
which, by the way, was on scum

3P scum. Not group scum.

Just... y'know... sayin'.

[House]

house are you betting on group scum being in this game?
because with a cult leader among us initially in a game this size i think its not that likely
the third party theory seems way more likely at this point and only a grpscum flip would change my mind

Which still doesn't give you any of that towncred you were wanting to buy.

[House]

I hate when people ask for quotes to back up an accusation. It's a soft OMGUS, because it forces the accuser to do a lot of work putting together a comprehensive case rather than dealing with the accusation itself, with the side benefit of being able to say "look, they can't prove it" if the accuser doesn't want to spend an hour or so searching archives and editing text blocks.

This is not a court of law, where you're innocent until comprehensively proven guilty. This is mob justice, where the onus of proof is on the accused

Vote ika

Oh, is that how it works?

You're scum.

Now prove otherwise.