Genesis Mafia - Game Over!

[Jazzmyn]

Vote Vi

For old times' sake.

[Jazzmyn]

What does "pocket status" mean?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Yeah RC is scum. Ive never seen him like this.

Could you please elaborate a bit? (I don't recall ever playing a game with RedCoyote, even though the user name sounds vaguely (very vaguely) familiar to me.)

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I do not believe RC is worth 4 votes right now. Well, I don't believe he deserves more right now. I don't think he's as scummy as the vote count indicates.

Why are you worried about it, though? I mean, 4 votes at this point on Day 1 shouldn't even be 'breaking a sweat' territory for town, although it certainly might be for scum. So why is it that you seem so concerned about it?

These games start out slow like a graduation dance at Plum's high school.

okay you're seriously getting frigging creepy

Indeed. Seriously creepy, and sadly nothing new for him.

I view creepy as a completely subjective projection that is a reflection of the insecurities of the person calling things creepy. Like you think in a predatory way which makes you project that onto other people. In reality, you're the one that has hidden agendas in your interactions and not me lol. I don't even think that way, I'm entertaining myself and getting into the groove for this game by speaking my mind. I'm posting for the sake of getting more comfortable posting.

It's such a white knight social justice warrior type of move to be calling things creepy like that as well. Like if I said to your mom some kinky stuff that would seem over the top for you but she's into way, way weirder, more extreme stuff than either of us initially predicted.

But I digress. I really have nothing to talk about because Vi's vote is superfluous and the vote on me is probably deserved given I can't find my flow yet. Still liking my vote where it is given the circumstances.

No, you are genuinely creepy, as you have been for years. I'm amazed that this site puts up with you. I almost didn't sign up for this game because you had, but then decided that I would sign up anyway on the basis that I could probably just ignore you if you confirmed into the game. Unfortunately, it hasn't turned out that way.

In terms of the tame things you say and write to amuse yourself, what is creepy? I just don't understand that and have seen a lot of people write that in games. "Oh no, you can't say that, it's so creepy". What does that even mean?

Are you implying I'm trying to pick up married women on mafiascum? Trying to be provocative? Making veiled threats? Does anyone feel physically unsafe?

A joke is a joke, there's nothing off the table in comedy. The same thing that makes one person cringe is the thing that makes another person laugh. Think of it. Tattoos people get with typos, jokes about taboo topics like sex and religion, people slipping and falling...the same thing that someone finds embarassing is what another finds funny. I didn't say you have to find my jokes funny, I'm really just putting an extraverted energy out in the thread to counter my natural tendency to lurk and spectate. Actively creating jokes as things cross my mind, that aren't really that extravagant to me, is conducive to posting more game related content. You write random things to unblock and gain more momentum and investment in the game, that's all there is to it.

You can't just cut the creative process by denouncing someone as having bad intentions or being a source of fear or unease, especially on behalf of somebody else. Like I said, the fact that you feel that way and have the need to express yourself on it only sheds light on the way that your brain works and how you see the world. I'm going to take a note not to censor myself here hoping that more misguided accusations come flying my way.

No, that is all BS, you are just (and still) creepy, and you do nothing to move the game forward. I get that you think you're all 'edgy' and 'cool' and whatever, but you're not. At all. Not in the slightest.

Here's an idea: how about attempting to contribute meaningfully to a game for once? I realize that this will be a new experience for you, but you might consider trying it just for once.

All the reasoning for voting so far has been terrible. Plum is overexplaining. RC is devisting from meta. These reasons suck. Rather than making up my own faulty reason to vote someone, I'm choosing to wait. You're voting me because I'm waiting for something I find scummy before I attack. Then you're just disagreeing to make it look like you're building more reasons to vote for me, which doesn't really make any sense unless you think that "the longer he waits to tell us about what he finds scummy so far, the likelier he is to be scum!". If that's your argument against me then good luck to you.

Personally, I am willing to vote you just to see you gone because of your extreme creepiness, coupled with your consistent lack of contribution to a game.

You're trying to make me your enemy but I won't play the game as your enemy because I don't know your alignment. I don't even have a good guess yet. In the meantime, me just talking makes me look more and more townie to the players who understand the limitations of my acting and playstyle. I'm coming out the winner in our conversation that you have failed to escalate into a conflict.

No, while you appear to be quite enamoured of yourself, I doubt that anyone else is; you are just (and still) creepy.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

About the "creepy" discussion, in retrospect I probably should have just left it alone, but it bugged me enough to have to take a step back from the game. I'm over it now, I will refrain from saying anything more about it, and I apologize for contributing to the distraction.

As for the game itself, I will do a fresh read from the start and post up my thoughts in a bit.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

As I was looking at Kinetic's posts, I initially thought that his posts saying that he didn't know what to do because he had not been around for a long time might have been legit but then I looked him up on the site and found that he had, in fact, been in another game quite recently (that started a few weeks before this one), and in that game it seems that he played much differently than he has done in this game. In that game, he was active, involved, confident, aggressive, and even bigging up his reputation as an old-timer, while in this game, he seems to be trying to portray himself as weak, shy, and uncertain.

That doesn't make sense to me.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I have gone through the thread and everyone's ISOs, so my reads are developing. At this point, several are in the neutral category, of course, but a few are scum-leaning and a couple are town-leaning.

On the scum side, I have Kinetic. On the town side, I have Lady.

On the leaning scum quadrant, I have Salamence. His push on RedCoyote seemed weak and somewhat contrived to me. He eventually fessed up to being mistaken when he repeatedly called RedCoyote a liar, but still kept his vote on RedCoyote anyway. His appeals to emotion made me cringe, too. I thought his posts 133 and 163 were weaksauce. Then, in post 185, he said he didn't like Juls, vezo, and RedCoyote following Vi, but then in 246, he followed himself.

I have Albert, vezo and Plum also as leaning scum. These are more gut-based, or based on less than solid reads, but there they are.

I have everyone else as essentially neutral at this point, but I didn't like RedCoyote's appeals to emotion any more than I liked Salamence's, and Vi makes me suspicious for reasons that I cannot articulate.

I see that Kinetic is currently at L-2 and is being replaced in any event, so I suppose it would be cruel to vote him at this time.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

That's a lot of Town-leaning reads you've got there.

You're joking, right?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

It's more aligned with sarcasm.

I'll say it more plainly. That's not a very difficult post for scum to make.

It wasn't an easy one for town to make, given that it took me several hours of combined reading and thinking to make it.

If we are to gauge posts on the basis of "not very difficult for scum to make", that would include every post in the thread so far, including all of your own.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Scum can take several hours to read and think about a post, and ultimately come up with one that says "basically everyone is scummy". 273 is the second post where you have said essentially that.

With all due respect, that is nonsense.

I took the time required to read the thread and everyone's ISOs, and to think about them and the interactions to date because that is the best way I know to try to find scum. I am suspicious of you, and most others, because the only player's alignment of which I am certain is my own.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

>Come to conclusion that everyone is scummy
>Put in several hours of :effort: to read the game
>Come to conclusion that everyone is scummy

I'm sorry, but now you do not even appear to be making sense. At first, you said that my reads post above was "not difficult for scum to make"; then I told you that it was difficult for town to make since it involved several hours of reading the thread and everyone's ISOs and thinking about the interactions, etc., and I noted that if we are to gauge posts on the basis of them being "not difficult for scum to make" nearly every post in the thread, yours included, would fall into that category; then you went into strawman territory, saying, "Scum can take several hours to read and think about a post, and ultimately come up with one that says "basically everyone is scummy"" - what on earth does scum reading and thinking about a single post have to do with anything here? - and you ignored my point that your "it's not difficult for scum to make" line applies to essentially every post in the thread to date; and your last post (quoted above) is yet another strawman.

This strikes me as weird behaviour on your part.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Why should I or anyone else vote for someone other than you?

Several reasons, the first of which is that I'm town. The second of which is that I'm pretty good at sussing out scum eventually. The third of which is that there are other players in the game, yourself included, who appear (to me) to be leaning scum.

If I ask the same question of you, that is, "Why should I or anyone else vote for someone other than you?" I wonder if your answer be any different than mine?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

EBWOP because I missed a word (now bolded below).

Several reasons, the first of which is that I'm town. The second of which is that I'm pretty good at sussing out scum eventually. The third of which is that there are other players in the game, yourself included, who appear (to me) to be leaning scum.

If I ask the same question of you, that is, "Why should I or anyone else vote for someone other than you?" I wonder if your answer

would

be any different than mine?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

It would be.

Would you care to share with the class, or are you content with silly non-responsive posts?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

This conversation ceased being productive several posts ago.

If so, that is entirely down to you.

Vote: Vi

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

vote jazz

Lol. I didn't think scum can be so obvious.

Your post makes no sense to me. What is it that you are trying to say?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

omg I missed Vi so much

This is vomit inducing. Vi might be town and she might be scum - more likely scum at this point since she has confirmed that she is content with posting silly non-responsive crap over actual content and she has shied away from answering legitimate questions - but why are you engaging in butt kissing instead of scum hunting?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@Master Zik and Quaroath: You have only 5 and 10 posts respectively, and the content of them isn't exactly giving me warm fuzzies.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Until you decided the make 10 of the last 25 posts, we were tied at 8. Wah.

Lil kettle action there.

I feel like I need to make a corny joke now.

Apologies, but I don't understand your quoted post above. Please elucidate.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I agree with lynching Jazz.

*sniffle*
Of course you do, because you're either scum or grotesquely lazy town. Either way, you are not helpful to town.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

If you end up seeing yourself as the only one helpful to the Town - and you are the only one who *does* see yourself as helpful to Town - well.

Where on earth did you get that from?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

You didn't answer the question, Plum. Please do so.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I don't think it matters.

I think it matters that you are making up stuff and avoiding a legitimate question.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I don't think it matters.

I think it matters that you are making up stuff and avoiding a legitimate question.

Regards,
Jazz

Okay.

So how about addressing the fact that you were making up stuff and avoiding a legitimate question?

[Jazzmyn]

Frankly this personal harassment doesn't bother me, that said, it encourages a toxic and vicious atmosphere on the site and that crosses my boundaries.

Typical abuser, abuses to his heart's content, posts about it ad nauseam, loves that he gets away with it for years, and then is the first to whine when he is eventually called out on it.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

That said, it's not game related so let's move on. Yes, Albert is scummy, and there is a good chance that he is scum in this game, but let's get back to the game, shall we?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

*sniffle* at Albert repeatedly crying to the mods, trying to have other players reprimanded for having the sheer audacity to confront him or question his constant BS, which he has spouted for years on end. How utterly ridiculous.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Also, Albert, you're trying way too hard. I would move my vote from Vi to you if I didn't like it where it is at present.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

What I've learned here:

When somebody makes a joke at the expense of another person who brushes it off as a joke and doesn't feel offended, get up in arms!!! The patriarchy in motion!! Getting away with abusing women!!!

When somebody actually gets personally insulted repeatedly and lets his bullies know that they are contributing to a toxic atmosphere, "justice is finally served! don't cry to the mods! nobody has your back!"

Behavior like that is what makes online communities breed a culture of harassment where it becomes acceptable as long as "a couple people agree", starting from this thread, beginning with Vi's comment. That's how these things start. I'm getting a good night's sleep now because it's 3AM and I've had enough of your harassment for one night. I hope the mod rightfully force replaces you because this game really didn't need you to bring this back up again after I thought we closed the topic earlier.

In other words, *sniffle*

It's all fine and dandy when you constantly harrass and try to intimidate others but when anyone dares to speak up to you, you go crying to the mods claiming intimidation when it doesn't actually exist.

Got it.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Why are you voting for Vi?

Initially, I was suspicious of Vi but I couldn't really articulate my reasons for it (as I mentioned at the time); it was an overall thing, for soft sorts of reasons, the kind that give you that niggling feeling but you have to let it percolate for a while to see which way it goes. It included the 'fluffiness' of many of her posts, her trying to shut others down from making their own inquiries of players aside from those that she personally wanted to focus on, the way she seemed to expect others to just follow her lead and leave their own reads at the door, that kind of thing. Then last night, all she did was fill her posts with strawmen, toss out one liners, and try to disparage others instead of trying to shed light. This appeared to me to be her way of trying to throw mud at the wall illegitimately while simultaneously avoiding answering questions herself. This, collectively, strikes me as scummy behaviour.

Is there ever a game with GreyIce/LLD where there isnt some kind of fight invloving them?

I am not sure whether this means that you think I am GreyIce, but in another game someone mentioned that a player called GreyIce has a similar avatar to mine; for the record, I have had this avatar for a long time (since before GreyIce joined the site, in fact) but I do not know who that person is.

ah, the feeling when you want to lead someone to things that are so much more productive

and then the other party n e v e r responds

If this is intended to refer to me, I went to b e d. This site is blocked at my office, so I can only read and post from home, which means during available evenings and weekends. I rarely leave questions unanswered, although you may have to wait a few hours sometimes to allow for things like sleep, work, food, etc.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

...damn it, Vi.
325 - 355 is all non-game related and will be treated as such by me. Frankly, this is very disappointing as I don't see how

ABR/LLD/Jazz

will be able to read each other objectively going forward.

Why have you omitted Vi from the bolded part even though you have previously identified Vi as the instigator?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@370 Expect personal questions to be ignored.

That's fair enough, but I expect relevant game related content and you haven't provided any yet. Can the rest of us expect some any time soon?

GreyICE is my fiancee. Dont worry no one thinks you're him.

Oh, okay, thanks.

Someone's jealous...

*rolls eyes* Someone's fluffing again.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

There's a fine line between being overly fluffy and having fun in a game.

I disagree. I do not think that is a fine line at all. Fun is great, of course, and that is why I am here (and why I assume everyone else is here) - because it's fun! But one can make jovial and fun posts at the same time as making substantive posts, rather than posting little more than fluff to try to skate through a game. These are different things, in my view. It is way too easy for scum to post mostly fluff in an effort to appear (artificially) active in a game, when their only real motive is to avoid being prodded or being called out as lurkers, etc.

How would you like it if players attacked you for being too robotic?

I have been attacked for all sorts of reasons and non-reasons during my tenure here, so I think that being attacked for being "too robotic" would be a bit of a hoot, actually, since that would be a first.

Believe me[...]

No can do. I don't "believe" anyone who tries to tell me that I should just "believe" them without them posting anything of substance in respect of the matters that they want me buy into; I prefer to come to my own conclusions, thanks just the same, and I think that you are still continuing to be rather fluffy.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Oh, because I don't think she realized it until after the fact. Plus she's a site moderator, so, rightly or wrongly, that carries a certain gravitas and impartiality.

Had I thought she was deliberately fanning the flames, however, I'd say as much.

That strikes me as worthy of a spot in the top ten of worst possible rationales ever expressed in a game of mafia. You seem to be saying, on one hand, that because Vi is/was a mod on a quiet little site in a corner of the vast internet, you are willing to follow her willy nilly, and yet you imply, on the other hand, that she is so stupid that she didn't 'realize until after the fact' that she instigated the very thing that she clearly intended to instigate (and did in fact instigate from the outset), which she has not resiled from (nor should she) and which resulted in a derail of a game thread on the very same quiet little site in a corner of the vast internet.

Seriously?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Plus she's a site moderator, so, rightly or wrongly, that carries a certain gravitas and impartiality.

No, it doesn't.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I then implore you to explain to me how it is the case for Vi and not the case for Kinetic/zakk. Hell, zakk's first two opening posts are pure fluff, and yet you clearly pass over the opportunity to call him out on it in favor of Vi.

This is nonsense. In my reads post at 265, I have Kinetic as scum, and I was prepared to vote for him except that it would have put him at L-1 and he was in the process of being replaced. Zakk hadn't even replaced in at the time that I posted 265, which included the part about leaning scum on Vi. He just replaced in yesterday. Lady asked me why I was voting for Vi and I set that out in my post 377; it has nothing to do with Kinetic/zakk, who I have already put in the scum pile.

This is completely unfair. I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but "top ten worst"? You aren't being fair at all.

It really is top ten material, in my view.

Once again, my contention is that because Vi is a sitewide moderator that has to deal with scummers reporting posts and making decisions about banning/suspending players on a regular basis, she is necessarily more adept at compartmentalizing drama and seperating it from her Mafia player persona. Vi is the closest thing you have to an impartial player when it comes to an issue like this. Full stop.

You began this by saying that you (concern trolling?) "don't see how ABR/LLD/Jazz will be able to read each other objectively going forward" and you left Vi out of that even though she was the instigator. When asked to explain that, you said it's because she is/was a site mod, which is patently ridiculous, since it was she who instigated it in the first place. By your logic, she should have known that it was a 'hot-button' issue for the site, and yet, there it is.

This is a very bad post, Jazz. I'm disappointed in the direction you are going. I'd like to have a reasonable discussion with you. You don't need to succumb to cheap talking points unless you are scum.

They are not 'cheap talking points' at all. They are a reasonable response to the words you wrote, based upon the available evidence. That you appear to be stumbling over yourself to try to explain away your words is illuminating.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Also, as before, Jazzmyn is a super-easy target [...]

You keep saying this, but I do not understand it. What do you mean?
Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Unvote: Vi.

I am going to have to do another read.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I do not have time just now to post anything substantive but I do not want to get prodded - it sounds rather...unpleasant. I am just heading out for dinner but I will be back later tonight with my comments after my latest fresh read.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I am very strongly reading Kinetic/zakk as scum so I cannot go along with his suggestion. It doesn't look like there is any strong appetite for a Kinetic/zakk wagon at present, and the deadline is drawing near, so I will go ahead and

Vote: vezo

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

My first choice would be Zakk, over either or Vi or vezo, but there doesn't appear to be any appetite for that at present and there is a deadline looming so I am going to have to be content with either a vezo lynch or a Vi lynch over a no-lynch. Why do you prefer a Vi lynch over a vezo lynch?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

My first choice would be Zakk, over either

or

Vi or vezo, but there doesn't appear to be any appetite for that at present and there is a deadline looming so I am going to have to be content with either a vezo lynch or a Vi lynch over a no-lynch. Why do you prefer a Vi lynch over a vezo lynch?

Regards,
Jazz

Typo corrected by way of strikeout.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Also, I think that puts vezo at L-1.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

So I'm about 5 pages behind still. Will try to finish reading and post tonight but I honestly thought RC/Vi. So I might need to reread the whole thing again.

If you "honestly thought RC/Vi", why were you voting Plum?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'm going to have to re-read Day 1 to see if that changes my reads any in light of the information that we now have from the two flips.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Having reread the thread in its entirety, Juls appears to me to me to be very strongly scum. Kinetic/zakk also appears to me to be very strongly scum.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Having reread the thread in its entirety, Juls appears to me to me to be very strongly scum. Kinetic/zakk also appears to me to be very strongly scum.

Regards,
Jazz

Make that Juls/singersigner.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Could you please explain why zakk and why not Albert B. Rampage?

Albert is scummy too, but zakk is stuck with Kinetic both fibbing and fluffing up a storm, and I have never known Kinetic to do that as town.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Oh, I almost forgot.

Vote: zakk

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

So literally nothing zakk has done changes your read on that slot?

Ah, the "Rule of So" rears its ugly head. When you find yourself starting a sentence with the word, "So" and then you go on to insinuate that someone has said something that they did not say, that should be your first clue that you are (deliberately) engaging in logical fallacies and misrepresenting the other person. Why are you misrepresenting what I wrote, Vi, and what do you hope to gain from such misrepresentations? It's a scummy thing to do, you know.

The thing about Kinetic that makes it difficult for me to let go of it is that Kinetic not only lied but also did a complete 180 of town-Kinetic. It wasn't just a 'lurker' thing which would be null, but a completely against-the-grain-of-town-Kinetic. Did you read the posts in this game to which I was referring and the posts in his previous game to which I was referring?

If not, see my post 256
And see Kinetic's posts in the current game here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ort=Gohere
And then see Kinetic's posts in his previous game to which I was referring here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61784 and here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=61975

If you can then come back and honestly say that this is something that should just be dropped as not probative of alignment, I will at least give your position a fair listen and serious open minded consideration, but I think that you should at least read it before you dismiss it out of hand with nothing but hand-waving misrepresentation such as you have done in the portions of your post that I have quoted in this post (above and below). It is not at all that I think he's the be-all and end-all necessarily for today, but it appears so blatant (to me) that I don't think it should be dismissed with a hand-wave and swept under the carpet, so to speak.

You're going to hold onto that and not read anything else?

And you continue to misrepresent me in your second sentence as well. I said no such thing, and it appears that you are deliberately twisting what I wrote in order to misrepresent it. I re-read the entire thread (more than once, actually) and I quite clearly said that I had done so. At no point and in no universe is it true that I did "not read anything else" and your insinuation otherwise appears to be malicious.

So your list o' reads that you're willing to do something about now consists of

two

people who aren't able to defend themselves while you leave off the people who are both here and (according to both you and me) still scummy.

The Rule of So again, I see, and you continue to twist my words and misrepresent what I wrote in this next sentence as well. Why do you continue to do this?

I did not say anything remotely close to what you pretend that I said. There are not only two players that I am "willing to do something about", they are not "people who aren't able to defend themselves" - the slot is the slot is the slot as you well know - and I haven't "left off" other people who I think are scummy; it was not a reads list or a "list o' reads"; it was a simple post setting out my top two based upon a thorough re-read.

I re-read the entire thread, and also did a whole bunch of meta-searching and meta-reading on various players, by the way, and I offered up my two strongest scum reads in that post. I have other scum/scum-leaning reads, of course, as I'm sure everyone else in the game does as well, outside of the scum themselves. You are still among them, as is Albert (as both of you were yesterday as well, as you may recall). I did not feel the need to put all of that - or an entire reads list - into my previous post. Why do you pretend that I should have, or that it was anything of the sort?

All of my reads are subject to change upon re-reads, in the light of new evidence (flips), or in light of other new evidence that comes about by way of posts as the day progresses. Some have, so far, shifted one way or the other, but your repeated misrepresentations above appear to me to be quite deliberate, and that strikes me as scummy behaviour on your part.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

ABR's play is easy like Sunday morning.

*vote the person who says easily punishable things
*vote Vi when convenient (for reasons that are best explained with the level of reasoning I'd expect from a seven-year-old)
*has spent the Day lurking instead of pushing his wagon
*only stops lurking to post about how he's being

oppressed

by the SJWs

I concur with all of that, but would subsitute the word "Vi" in asterisk #2 with "anyone who he thinks he can get away with trying to bully and badmouth for reasons best explained with the level of reasoning one would expect from a 5 year old".

Your turn. Why is ABR Town? (it's like I have to ask this question a dozen times and maybe once I'll get an answer)

I haven't seen one yet. Perhaps third (13th?) time will be the charm.

ABR. LLD perhaps. SKrew. These are actually the people who have avoided taking any stand on Plum at all.

Are you sure those are the only ones? I will have to check my notes.

Like, Plum basically checked out of this game 2/3 of the way through Day 1. I interpret that as meaning she's out of options except lurking.

She is overdue for prodding, it appears, as are Sala and Sleepy.

@mod: please prod Plum, Sala and Sleepy. Or, better yet, please prod Plum and Sala, and replace Sleepy.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

In the interest of full disclosure, Vi, about how my reads work upon re-reading the thread and further evidence and such, I

had

adjusted my read on you from scummy to leaning town prior to your post 623 in which you went full-misrep and fallacy-ridden again. But then you went full-misrep again; you should never go full-misrep.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Jazzmyn - I did not see 256 previously. Now that you've linked the games in question, I understand and acknowledge where you're coming from, and will not defend Kinetic's play. However, you have made at most a rather obscure reference to anything zakk has ever posted (in post 539), and I am concerned that you are not considering any of zakk's posts at all. It is my opinion that zakk's play on its own is strongly Townish. This is to such a degree that even after seeing what you have linked, I believe his slot is Town.

I maintain my disappointment and suspicion about how your top two suspects are literally unable to respond to anything you bring against them, especially since you say that you have many other people you think are scummy yet are not engaging them. To be honest, I think that your vote on zakk is futile at best, and would invite you to either join the Plum wagon or place it on someone who is more likely to gain traction Today.

I would be content with moving on to someone else Today if there is no appetite or traction on a zakk wagon (which is not clear yet since Day 2 so far has been pretty slow and there has not been much input from many of the players yet and now there are two more replacements incoming who have not yet posted), but I just do not want the egregious nature of Kinetic's posts (a lie compounded with nothing but fluff and a 180 degree turn from town-Kinetic) to be forgotten, that's all. I say that because I have seen it happen many times before that a scum replaces out and the replacement skates because everyone eventually forgets about or disregards the priors. I totally understand and agree with the 'benefit of the doubt' thing when it's simply lurking or otherwise null behaviour, but when it's out and out scummy behaviour such as lying and doing a 180, I think that it is important that this be recalled. I mean, I don't see any town motivation for Kinetic to have lied and to have behaved in a manner that is so opposite his town-self. And I am fairly sure that I have won as scum myself at some point for the very reason that even egregious scummy behaviour can and is so often forgotten (or forgiven) via replacement.

And for the nth time now, I have read

all

of the posts in the thread multiple times, including zakk's posts, so why you continue to suggest otherwise is beyond me. I would concur that his posts are not particularly scummy

per se

but they don't exactly infuse me with warm fuzzies about him being town either. Without reference to his predecessor at all, I would put him as null at best.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Jazzmyn, could you please respond w.r.t. zakk's play?

Yes, see my post above; cross posting with you it appears.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Ignoring the zakk read if you like, would this work?

I'm not actually totally on board with SKrew being scum, but having had the experience of idiot scumpartners trying to turbobus me Day 1 on multiple occasions, I'm not ready to write it off.

I do not agree with all of your reads, if that is what those are (is that what it is?) but I can work with this as a hypothetical for the sake of discussion, if that is what you're after.

Leaving aside you and zakk, for obvious reasons (as discussed above), Sleepy is too deliberately non-participatory for me to get a read on him; it's scummy behaviour because he has added nothing of value to the game at all but it does appear to be a pattern for him as town (as per my meta reading on the weekend), so I would like to see the game mod forcibly replace him (and perhaps even for the site to restrict him in some way from signing up for games only to do absolutely nothing). Salamance looks a bit sketchy to me (I wasn't sold on him as town on Day 1 and I'm less sold today on Day 2; it appears that he has been able to post something like 200 posts in a few other games over the last couple of days but has not posted anything of substance whatsoever here during that same period) so I can't put him down as 'leaning town'. I cannot put Juls/singersigner leaning scum at most at present (as mentioned in previous posts above) but I look forward to seeing what singersigner has to contribute, as she may be able to assuage my misgivings in that regard.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Oh, and I should add that wrt Plum, I'm feeling a little bit wishy washy on her, which might be because she apologized to me upthread for her previous unfounded quasi-attack on me, and I might be a

teeny

bit of a sucker for that.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I cannot put Juls/singersigner

above

leaning scum at most at present (as mentioned in previous posts above) but I look forward to seeing what singersigner has to contribute, as she may be able to assuage my misgivings in that regard.

EBWOP - missed a word, which totally messed up the sentence. Sorry about that.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Okay fine. But only because you said please.

Why do you think ABR is scummy, I get the exact opposite.

... Your turn. Why is ABR Town? (it's like I have to ask this question a dozen times and maybe once I'll get an answer)

Zakk, it appears that you (and others) have dodged this question. Please answer it.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

This is ABR's towngame, pure and true. He's been so apathetic about scumgames lately that he doesn't get emotionally invested enough in games as scum to let the crazy come on out.

I do not agree with this, based upon the evidence you have provided. See below.

Spoiler: Exhibit A

Subject: 8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

It's our scumread on Nacho that is strong.

Titus believes that he's aiming to be the most credible person rather than finding scum. The theory spec, the sudden unnatural confidence in Kagami scum, how he's not harassing anyone like his town self. I was also recently scum with Nacho. He always seems reasonable, and here, I think that I found the chink in the armor.

Why is pirate mollie vexing us? It's a good question and a worthy one to ask if we're meant to move past this distracting bump that her replacement has been.

I'll tell you.

You know what I find creepy?

Men and women who desire women to stay at a high school mental age. This isn't even possible without mental illness or an extremely isolated upbringing; mainly due to maturity, life experience, and the development of the pre-frontal cortex that ends around the mid twenties. You know the women that fake high pitch excited voices or shy little squeaks, all the time, for every conversation? It's inauthentic like commercial orange juice. Watch a documentary on that, that shit ain't good for you.

Anyway, some people get off to the eternal youth thing. Personally, I find it disgusting. It reminds me of how painfully tight binding is applied to the feet of young Chinese girls to prevent them from growing bigger, all in a vain and selfish bid to display status and beauty, or plainly, to satisfy twisted erotic fantasies, stemming from the darkest recesses of the human mind, no fucks given about the suffering and deformation it causes to these girls.

When pirate mollie types that way, that's literally what I think of. The try-hard, yes daddy I will be your perfect little princess forever, fake persona that those women put on. She's doing the online version of that. That's why I think she needs help.

Spoiler: Exhibit B

Subject: Pathfinder Mafia - GAME OVER

I have been waiting to /replace into this game for awhile now - this playerlist is seriously awesome.

Unvote

May not get to reading tonight as I'll be out for a few hours.

What happened to your avatar?

I'm going to start reading new posts starting about 2 pages ago to get a handle on what's going on.

Spoiler: Exhibit C

Subject: —Mini 1635— Curse of the Werewolves: Game Over

Gentlemen, let's be reasonable. Voting for me for being complimentary and expressing my approval of you is like feeding your dog when he's begging for food while you're eating. You're not reinforcing the behavior you want to elicit here.

Spoiler: Dee

Subject: New York 182 - Game Over

vote: gork

Spoiler: Vi

Subject: Paradise Lost - [Game Over]

Equinox what kind of sexual partner do you like?

While I didn't look at his alignment in that last link, I don't really think I need to.

I have looked at all of the games you cited. I do not think that they support the conclusion that you appear to draw from them. I have placed them in chronological order and will provide my take on them. Everyone else, of course, is invited to do the same and draw their own conclusions.

1. What you labelled as Exhibit C was the first in time. It ran from ~December 28, 2014 until ~Februarly 11, 2015. In #1, Albert played very much the same way as he played in the current game: personal attacks, no real scumhunting, just pronouncements from on high, off topic stuff, and petty sniping at others. He was scum in that game. (And when he was targeted by a Town PR at night and got caught as scum, he threw an arrogant, egotistical hissy fit, outed his scum partners because, he claimed, he was 'frustrated', publicly forfeited the game without consulting his scum partners, and then cried like a little girl for five pages in the post-game blaming his partners and the game moderators. He even went all tinfoil hat, claiming that the site's game mods were out to get him and were deliberately giving him bad partners and placing him in unwinnable situations.)

2. What you labelled as Exhibit D was second in time. Albert's only involvement in the game was on March 14, 2015 (shortly after his meltdown in #1 above), when he made a single post and then flaked. He was scum in that game.

3. What you labelled as Exhibit B was third in time. Albert's only involvement in the game was when he replaced into the game at about page 80 on ~March 17, 2015 (again shortly after his meltdown in #1 above), following which he made 3 meaningless posts and then flaked by March 19, 2015. He was scum in that game.

4. What you labelled as Exhibit A was fourth in time. It ran from ~March 21 to May 10. In #4, Albert played very differently than he played in the current game. He did actual scumhunting instead of the psuedo-scumhunting he does as scum, he was productive, he was useful, he actually analyzed stuff and made meaningful posts beyond one liners and edicts from on high. His arrogance, dickishness, and oversized ego still shine through, as always, but I think there is a real (albeit subtle) difference that comes through when he is town as opposed to when he is scum. In #4, he was Town.

5. What you labelled as Exhibit Vi was fifth in time. It ran from April 14 to May 17. In #5, Albert played very much like he played in the current game: personal attacks, no real scumhunting, just pronouncements from on high, deliberately off topic stuff, and petty sniping at others. He was scum in that game.

So, I don't think that your Exhibits serve at all to indicate Albert-Town in the current game.

If anything, I think they serve to indicate Albert in his scum-game, not his Town game. Especially if you look at them in chronological order. It looks like he had a major meltdown in February in that scum game you cited (#1 above), then deliberately flaked out of two scum games in March as a result of that. Then, it appears that he got over his freakout when he drew a town role in #4 and was certainly comfortable enough by April to go back to his normal (for him) scum meta in #5 above.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Oh, and I should have said this sooner, but hello to singersigner, Nacho, and Ranmaru.
*waves*

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Lady, what is your take? You haven't really said much recently, and I would like to hear your thoughts and reads on the foregoing.

Same question to Vi.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I should point out the only reason I said anything about nacho, is because hes OP and we already have Vi in this game so fuck.

What does "OP" mean in this post?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

tldr tbh lol

That reads as "posting solely for purposes of trying to fly under the radar"

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

No your posts are really just super long and I don't really feel the inclination to read them, and at the same time I'm trying to shame you into posting shorter things. lol

If you were Town, you would read them.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@Plum, I'm not going to click through your spoilers, was there someone in there relevant?

Similarly, if you were town, you would read posts instead of just seagulling.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

seagulling

I

like

this term.

Personally, I find you two incredibly creepy.

Firstly, please do not edit my posts when you quote them without noting that the editing was done by you. Secondly, goodness gracious, that is not even remotely the usage of the term that I wrote, not by any stretch of the imagination. I would never in a thousand years write something vulgar like that. My reference was to seagull posts as the term is used on forums. Geez, Louise!

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

ETA to my last post: If you are not familiar with this term, it refers to someone who someone who flies in, makes a lot of noise, and craps over everything. You know, like a seagull.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

What are you smoking?

You posted this on page 30. Literally on page 29 of all pages, Nacho and I take up a good portion of the page talking about shit.

You aren't reading this game, are you?

I think I was only up to page 27 or 28 at that point; either that or I missed a page. Sorry about that.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

ETA to my last post: If you are not familiar with this term, it refers to someone who someone who flies in, makes a lot of noise, and craps over everything. You know, like a seagull.

ETA2 due to typos and such: That should have read, "If you are not familiar with this term, it refers to someone who flies in, makes a lot of noise, craps over everything, and then leaves. You know, like a seagull."

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I think I was only up to page 27 or 28 at that point; either that or I missed a page. Sorry about that.

That said, I would still like your views, LadyL, on the Albert-alignment question

viz

the links that Nacho posted (particularly my response to those links in my post 722. I know that you have repeatedly said that you think he's town, but I have not seen any rationale provided for that, despite several requests by Vi (maybe others as well, but I'm not sure).

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Hmm. Lots to read and lots to think about, which is doubleplusgood.

My immediate reaction is that I am not enamoured of the quick dismissiveness that I read in Lady's post above. I am going to have to read all of the lenthy posts again (more closely) to see how that percolates.

Nacho, I don't understand why you say that you haven't posted in this thread due to a computer issue but that computer issue has apparently has not prevented you from posting in

other

threads. Please explain.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Right, because I'm never going to give anyone that information.

I work based on intent and expectation. If I told people what kinds of expectations I want to see from players to make me believe they are town (in the general sense or in a specific sense for an individual player) I would find myself being fooled much more often.

Ergo, both in the long run of future games, and in the short term of this game, explaining my town reads will only serve to put me at a disadvantage in my town games.

I was not asking what kinds of expectations you look for to get town reads (but thanks for the links which I will take a look at some time if/when they become relevant). I was asking you whether you agreed with Nacho about his characterization of the links to Albert's games that he posted, because his characterization is essentially the opposite to mine. I would still like you to respond to that.

Zakk:

I was going to (temporarily at least) drop my vote on zakk since it isn't doing much good there, but then he deliberately and repeatedly misrepresented me again so I'm not feeling particularly inclined to back off of him. I am referring to zakk's posts in which he responded to my post (733) about Qua engaging in seagull behaviour, and zakk pretended in his post (755) that this was somehow "disgusting" (by reference to urban-dictionary of all things - how moronic can one be?) and even though that was stupid, it was not necessarily scummy at first, but it became scummy when he continued to pretend that what I wrote was "disgusting" even though I specifically addressed this and specifically set out what it is to which I was referring - that is, how the term is used in forums, which is someone behaving like a seagull (i.e., swoop in, make noise, crap on everything, and leave), not the bizarre and twisted nonsense that zakk sought to attribute to me. Even after I set that out in my posts 773, 778 and 782, zakk did not acknowledge those posts at all but instead simply ignored them and the actual meaning of the term and then subsequently pretended again (in his post 796) that it was his bizarro-world definition to which I referred, when it was no such thing. That is just ridiculous, and quite scummy.

Vi:

I also have to say that I find Vi's dripping condescension to the new replacement players very off-putting. She did the same thing to me when I was relatively new and she was scum, and I am having a difficult time seeing her play in this game much different than her scum play then.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Hey there Jazz!! Please don't go anywhere! I'd like to bounce reads with you. I'd also like to see some more of Plum and Quaroth today.

I'm currently replying to Nacho and Vi. Just wanted to post this real quick.

I will be happy to talk to you and I will be around for probably another hour or so anyway. I am reading back (again) because I am getting some bad vibes from some of the posts made recently, things that make me raise my eyebrows at least. I think I will go have a cigarette just now and pour an adult beverage, but I will be back in five-ten.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

many people had called for SK's replacement by that point and so Zik being yet another person pushing for the replace-out isn't that revolutionary to me.

They had? Who are these "many people" to whom you refer? I don't recall anyone calling for Sleepy to be force-replaced prior to Master Zik doing so (and I agree with the call for Sleepy to be force-replaced) but this post looks wonky.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

The Vi post I quoted is the main one I was referring to.

Link, please. I have no idea which "Vi post" it is to which you are presently referring.

It appears (to me) that you have not actually answered my question.

So, again,

who are these "many people" to whom you refer? I don't recall anyone calling for Sleepy to be force-replaced prior to Master Zik doing so (and I agree with the call for Sleepy to be force-replaced) but this post looks wonky.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'm actively trying not to be condescending. However, there are only so many ways one can go about saying "everything you're doing is wrong; please change".

I'm not seeing it. It seems to me that there are scads of ways of delivering such a message without being condescending, rude and obnoxious, as you have been in this game. Your posts seem designed specifically to demoralize rather than to stimulate or illuminate.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Are you familiar with Vi's play in general?

I think so. How about you?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Hey Jazz, hope you didn't miss my post by the way! I'm still here if you'd like to talk.

I'm still here. (Becoming slightly inebriated at this point, but still here.)

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

[quote="In post 928, zakk"]
[...]

This is a pitiful post. Zakk, you should not blame anyone else for your lack of knowledge, you should not rely upon "urban dictionary" for anything and, above all, you should not ascribe to me anything that could even remotely be construed as vulgar or disgusting, such as that which

you

posted, as I would never in a thousand years say or post such a thing with such a meaning. You continuing down this line while you have deliberately ignored the

actual

meaning of the term which I set out repeatedly earlier is pretty egregious.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Are you familiar with Vi's play in general?

I think so. How about you?

Regards,
Jazz

I'd consider myself pretty familiar, yeah.
Why do you think that Vi's condescending tone is more likely to be coming from scum than town?

It appears that you agree that Vi is, indeed, being rude and condescending (I don't know whether you would also adopt "obnoxious" so I've left that out) to the recent replacements. Why do you think that her condescension is more likely to be coming from town-Vi than scum-Vi?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'd consider myself pretty familiar, yeah.
Why do you think that Vi's condescending tone is more likely to be coming from scum than town?

Okay, let's back up a second. Can you point me to a game where Vi has been as rude and condescending when she's been town? If so, that might help.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

There are a lot of long-winded responses that are making it harder to keep up let alone catch up.

I'm working on this more tomorrow.

I'm just gunna

vote: Salamance

for posterity, even though I know the likelihood of getting a crash wagon on him is slim this close to deadline. When I'm done catching up I'll make my vote more useful (unless you guys pretty please wanna see what this Salamance wagon's all about...it's pretty cool).

Because I agree with you about Salamence, I really do. But Zik wagon seems like the stuff of dreams.

Lol. Loving this.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Cliff notes

:

• emotional outburst that is un-needed (al, zaak)
  
• stern meta on kinetic, doesn't try to read zaak, too stubborn. Doesn't talk about his content or vi read.
  
• Doesn't push Zaak hard, even while voting vi in mid-game. Then complains that she can't do anything due to deadline.
  
• town-lean on vi, still snipes at her later every chance she gets.
  
• focuses on the wrong things (ie nacho's post about meta, not his content, zakk's predecessor meta, not his content, etc)
  
• Jazz doesn't seem to be reading. Comes up with weak reads/sub-par results.
  
• Interaction with Zaak comes off as forced. Uses silly seagull argument to stick her vote on Zaak.

We need to get decisions soon. Deadline will be soon, and Zik can wait until later.

@

Vi

: Move to Jazzmin. You realized her suspicious play twice this game, you have no good reason to be town-reading her right now from your interaction with her. Notice how she didn't either, and she has taken advantage of that.
@

Nacho

: Move here with me. If you want to see me do amazing things for this game, start here. Zik can wait.
@

LLD

: Move here with me. You realized her not really paying attention, and you can see her sniping at Vi while holding a town-lean. Does that not at least make you wonder about her? Think about it.
@

Plum

: Move here with me.
@

Zik

: Move to Jazzmyn. I don't know why you town-read her, but she's scum.
@

Zaak

: Plum isn't scum. Vi probably isn't scum. Vote Jazzmyn.
@

Quaroth, Singer, Salamence

: Vote Jazzmyn. Also give opinions on recent events.

Vote: Jazzmyn

Oops, quoted the wrong post previously (I was doing the multi-quote thing earlier while catching up but got sidetracked, and then came upon the latest post and laughed my butt off).

Loving this.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

This is no laughing matter.

Yes, it is and, as noted, I quite like it.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I am around for the next couple of hours this evening if anyone wants to talk live-ish. Just let me grab a beverage and then hit me.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Sure. I'd like to know your reads.

Sometimes I think I've got someone sorted and then I re-read and get a slightly different take. It drives me a bit crazy.

I have only skimmed through the last five pages, and I will read them in depth a little later, so I don't know whether those will change my reads yet. Other than that, I don't think my reads have changed much since my post 646, except that Salamence is pinging harder as time goes on.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I also want to mention that Jazz mentioned a game Kinetic was in that started a few weeks before this one. Most of the games he has played in the last month are done. I went as far as april of 2013 to check. Nothing he is in is current, so she can out the meta now. I'd like to see it.

I posted the links a week ago; see my post 634.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

People Jazzmyn has voted this game:

Vi (for

"how dare you question me"

"You're scummy."

)
vezokpiraka (for deadline)
zakk (for being Kinetic

and scummy

(although I'm fine with backing off of this one for now.)

Fixed that for you.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Also, LLD. I think Jazz, as scum, would be comfortable where she's at now, as her vote for Zakk is pretty weak as hell. At the same time Zakk is letting her vote him and she's not doing much else about it. If you want to think of her actions compared to the wagons, I would think they would be both scum being off of wagons to keep themselves alive. Why? Because Jazz is weak with making up reads, you noticed how much heat she got for that early game. Now we'll see if she'll release any reads at all today, instead of active lurking. Of course, we won't know if they are buddies until one flips scum, therefore I'd want to lynch Jazz and if she flipped scum, it'd be easier to find her partner.

It appears that you either aren't reading the game or you are just selectively reading it, because none of what you wrote above makes any sense. First, I am town. Second, I have not "made up" any reads at all - they are all honest, every single one of them. Some of them could be

wrong,

of course, but they are honest. Third, the only flak I took on Day 1 was from scummy folks who thought that I'd be easy lynchbait to keep around for later. Fourth, I have not lurked or active lurked at all. Fifth, I have been very forthcoming with my reads. You seem to just be making stuff up.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Ok, prove me wrong. Forthcome with your reads please.

Do I have to hold your hand, or could you just read the thread instead? See my post 1180 and my within-referenced post 646. Having now read the last five pages more closely (as I mentioned in 1180 that I would do), I would adjust those reads to include you as climbing up the scum-o-meter for your multiple misrepresentations and falsehoods.

Also, if you are going to back away from Zakk, why are you still voting him?

I will move my vote when I decide where it might be better placed. What does it matter to you?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

*waves* to Kagami and Cabd. Thanks for replacing in.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Also, I will not be joining the Master Zik wagon in the absence of any compelling reason to do so, and no compelling reason to do so has been presented to date, in my view.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

And what is a "compelling reason" for you?

A scum case that hangs together. I haven't seen one made on Master Zik yet. Have you?

Who are you willing to lynch, Jazzmyn?

Plum or Vi, Sal maybe, singersigner maybe (because that could be quite information-rich, given Juls' parting post before singersigner replaced Juls). I would probably not object to Nacho either, but that is tied to my scum read on Vi.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Okay, let's back up a second. Can you point me to a game where Vi has been as rude and condescending when she's been town? If so, that might help.

Regards,
Jazz

Subject: NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

Subject: Micro 59 - At one fell swoop (Game Over)

I have now read all of Vi's posts in those two games you linked to (in which she was town), and they do not appear to me to be even remotely comparable to her play in this game and not even remotely comparable to the vitriol she has dished out in this game. Why would you choose those games to try to demonstrate "town-Vi" as similar to this game in terms of her level of rudeness and condescension?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

And what is a "compelling reason" for you?

A scum case that hangs together. I haven't seen one made on Master Zik yet. Have you?

@Lady
Well, have you?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

...

TWITCH.

TWITCH TWITCH TWITCH TWITCH.

I think that you are right to be twitching here.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Okay, let's back up a second. Can you point me to a game where Vi has been as rude and condescending when she's been town? If so, that might help.

Regards,
Jazz

Subject: NY 160B - Welcome to Castle Zar - TIME FOR FIREWORKS!

Subject: Micro 59 - At one fell swoop (Game Over)

I have now read all of Vi's posts in those two games you linked to (in which she was town), and they do not appear to me to be even remotely comparable to her play in this game and not even remotely comparable to the vitriol she has dished out in this game. Why would you choose those games to try to demonstrate "town-Vi" as similar to this game in terms of her level of rudeness and condescension?

Regards,
Jazz

ETA: They are absolutley milquetoast by comparison, in my view. Which lends support to my view that this is her scum-game, not her town-game.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

And what is a "compelling reason" for you?

A scum case that hangs together. I haven't seen one made on Master Zik yet. Have you?

@Lady
Well, have you?

Regards,
Jazz

If you're looking for me to make you a case with nice bullet points and quoted posts and measured and cut reasons for why someone is scum, A la, X reasons that Y formula, you will be waiting a long time. I don''t put much faith in them besides as methods scum sometimes use to sell things to townies.

Why are you suggesting that I am looking for "[you] to make a case with nice bullet points and quoted posts and measured and cut reasons ala X reasons that Y formula" when I have asked for no such thing? As noted above, I am not willing to lynch Master Zik in the absence of a scum case that hangs together in support of lynching him. As asked above - and not yet answered - have you seen one yet? It appears from your response that you have not.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

And what is a "compelling reason" for you?

A scum case that hangs together. I haven't seen one made on Master Zik yet. Have you?

@Lady
Well, have you?

Regards,
Jazz

I will ask this once again, since it's a simple question that you haven't answered, Lady.

Have you?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

...

. . .

. . .

. . .

And what is a "compelling reason" for you?

A scum case that hangs together. I haven't seen one made on Master Zik yet. Have you?

@Lady
Well, have you?

Regards,
Jazz

I will ask this once again, since it's a simple question that you haven't answered, Lady.

Have you?

Regards,
Jazz

Yup, it's called his reactions to pressure, and my earlier comments on his weird desire to demotivate SleepyKrew into a replacement and the intent behind his posting there.

In other words,

THINGS I HAVE SAID BEFORE TRY READING THE MOTHER FUCKING GAME BEFORE YOU BOTHER ME WITH THIS SHIT AGAIN.

I have read the entire game, and you appear to be dissembling here. Please point out your case against Master Zik if you want others to follow your vote.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

ETA: They are absolutley milquetoast by comparison, in my view. Which lends support to my view that this is her scum-game, not her town-game.

Okay. Do you have links to support that the condescending tone = Vi!scum?

You haven't answered my question.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I swear to god if I have to tell Jazzmyn to read the game one more time I'm going to blow up.

And I really don't want to do that, I'm trying not to play angry. :/ I'm making a conscious effort of it.

I.
AM.
NOT.
DOING.
THE.
WORK.
FOR.
YOU.
YOU.
LAZY.
FUCK.

I told you, that I commented on a post regarding Master Zik's attempt to demoralize SleepyKrew, and I disliked his recent reactions to pressure from people.

If you can't look at those and comment on them, then holy fuck.

I am asking for a scum case on the person that you wish to lynch, and you are not providing it. And now you appear to be freaking out for no reason.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

ETA: They are absolutley milquetoast by comparison, in my view. Which lends support to my view that this is her scum-game, not her town-game.

Okay. Do you have links to support that the condescending tone = Vi!scum?

You haven't answered my question.

Regards,
Jazz

I've answered plenty of your questions. You haven't answered any of mine.

What questions are those?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

You haven't answered questions of mine period. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask you to take a break and answer one of mine, especially considering I live the mobile life and you don't.

I don't recall you asking me a question, and if you did, I missed it, but I would be pleased to respond if you could point it out.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'm still waiting on the scum-case on Master Zik, which does not appear to be forthcoming.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

And what is a "compelling reason" for you?

A scum case that hangs together. I haven't seen one made on Master Zik yet. Have you?

Who are you willing to lynch, Jazzmyn?

Plum or Vi, Sal maybe, singersigner maybe (because that could be quite information-rich, given Juls' parting post before singersigner replaced Juls). I would probably not object to Nacho either, but that is tied to my scum read on Vi.

Regards,
Jazz

I notice that neither of you responded to my quoted post above.

Just saying.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Also don't think random suspicion on Jazz is good; the way she's approaching the game is still town.

NO SHIT.

OF COURSE SHE'S MOTHER FUCKING TOWN, NO SCUM PLAYER APPROACHES THE GAME THIS GOD-DAMNED STUBBORNLY.

Nacho, I need you to restrain me from doing something I will regret. Please god.

Nacho, I need you to restrain me from doing something I will regret. Please god.

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

I am SEETHING, Nacho.

SEEEEETHINGGGGGG.

Why are you "seeeeeeethingggggggg"?

I don't know why you think that behaving like a dickwad is a good playstyle.

Just saying.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'm done with you.

I'm not in the mood for your idiocy. I've no idea what the fuck you're looking for. If you want to be spoonfed, the answer is fucking no. If you want my reasons for suspicion, I've given them multiple times. If you want quoted posts, the answer is no.

Fuck off, before I fucking lose what little patience I have left with you.

*sniffle*

Now you sound like Albert, but worse.

If you have a scum-case to make against a player, then please make it. That would be

very

helpful to town. If you have no case to make, then just say so.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'm done with you.

I'm not in the mood for your idiocy. I've no idea what the fuck you're looking for. If you want to be spoonfed, the answer is fucking no. If you want my reasons for suspicion, I've given them multiple times. If you want quoted posts, the answer is no.

Fuck off, before I fucking lose what little patience I have left with you.

You are an egregiously rude person. I get that you are young and not very bright, but geez, if you are town, you need to smarten up.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Ugh, actually my last post was rude, too (although not nearly as egregiously rude as Lady has been all game towards many players) but I still should not have said that out loud, so I will withdraw it.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Why are you trying to bait me into fighting with you? I'm attempting to actively ignore you, and have said I'm done with you, and you're now just going LOOKING for trouble.

I am not "baiting" you at all; I asked you to provide a case for voting Master Zik and you went batcrap crazy instead of providing a case against the person who you want others to vote. And you keep acting as though anyone who DARES to disagree with you is somehow in TROUBLE - that's just stupid.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

And what is a "compelling reason" for you?

A scum case that hangs together. I haven't seen one made on Master Zik yet. Have you?

@Lady
Well, have you?

Regards,
Jazz

I will ask this once again, since it's a simple question that you haven't answered, Lady.

Have you?

Regards,
Jazz

Yup, it's called his reactions to pressure, and my earlier comments on his weird desire to demotivate SleepyKrew into a replacement and the intent behind his posting there.

In other words,

THINGS I HAVE SAID BEFORE TRY READING THE MOTHER FUCKING GAME BEFORE YOU BOTHER ME WITH THIS SHIT AGAIN.

Well, I didn't read Zik's posts about asking for Sleepy to be replaced as an attempt to demotivate, though. It is possible, of course, that he wanted Sleepy to be replaced because he was a useless scum partner, but it is just as likely that he wanted Sleepy to replaced because he was useless as town. I also wanted Sleepy to be replaced because he was simply not playing the game, and I'm town.

It seems to me that the posts most likely and most designed to demotivate others have come from you and Vi more than anyone else. By this, I mean, you both repeatedly swear and yell at others and call others stupid and inept and such (in varying words), but you both do it over and over and over and over again. This is a

non-exhaustive

list (because I've been de-motivated enough by your behaviour and Vi's behaviour not to make a complete list): 771, 842, 844, 869, 877, 880, 1242, 1245, 1246, 1248, 1260, 1265, 1295, 1402, 1405.

So, if you really think that someone should be lynched for "demotivating" others, you really should be looking at yourself and Vi.

Plus, your "reactions to pressure" bit doesn't seem to hold either. You voted Zik in your post 600 when he called for Sleepy to be replaced, but then two posts later (your 636) you said that you were a lot less suspicious of Zik specifically for his reactions to your pressure, and you went back to voting Plum. Later, when Nacho called Zik scum, you disagreed with Nacho (your post 868). It was only in your post 1173 that you said you were "unconvinced on your town read on Zik" but despite being asked repeatedly, you wouldn't provide any details of how/why he was suddenly scummy, and hearkening back to your post 600 doesn't cut it because of your posts 636 and 868.

That said, I can see why a scum-Zik might have called for Sleepy's replacement if Sleepy was a scum-partner to Zik and was doing nothing useful, but as town I also wanted to see Sleepy replaced, and so did several others, and I don't think that everyone calling for his replacement could all be scum. Vi (belatedly) came around to also asking for Sleepy to be replaced as well, so if you're thinking that was a scum move by Zik, then you'll have to consider that slow and belated call by Vi as well. (It actually looks more like she only asked for it when she was close to being lynched and wanted to extend the Day to avoid her own lynch).

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Also,

Unvote

.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

In addition to repeatedly trying to demotivate others, Vi has also deliberately misrepresented others so often and so egregiously that I really cannot see her as being town.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I had to take a break from this game yesterday because I was having difficulty with the level of frustration that it was causing me, and I had to seriously consider whether to replace out or stick it out. I don't want to replace out because half of the players already have and every time another one does, it gets more confusing and more difficult for the remaining players. Plus, it is really not in my nature to be a quitter.

So, essentially, I figured instead, I will do a hard reset or "clear and add zero", come back, and say, let's do this, folks! We really need to get back on track.

I am currently doing another re-read. It's not complete yet but I'm calling these anyway:

Town: Jazz, Vi, Lady, zakk (yes, zakk)
Scum: Plum, Salamence

I will finish re-reading later. I'm taking it more slowly this time and noticing more things!

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Vote: Plum/Ran

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Seeing the most recent posts, though, I have to say that I actually feel like voting Cabd. His 1579 is just BS.
But one at a time.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

EBWOP:

Seeing the most recent posts, though, I have to say that I actually feel like voting Cabd. His 1579

(and his 1578 for that matter)

is

are

just BS.

But one at a time.

Regards,
Jazz

I spent years in the aviation industry, btw.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

...

Do you agree with your predecessor's parting salvo when s/he flaked, saying that s/he "knows" Albert and Salamence are town?

Because I'm not seeing it.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@Mod

(and Players)

I will be V/LA until Sunday night.

I'm heading out to the cottage, where internet access is spotty to non-existent. I will get on if I can, but no guarantees.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Jazzmyn

we need your help. Could you research into the scum metas of Lady Lambdadelta and Ranmaru? We need to know what they are capable of. I have this paranoid feeling -- they were also pushing the vezokpiraka wagon hard. Lady Lambdadelta in particular.

Will do. I am back from the cottage but it is my RL birthday so dinner and drinks and cake and stuff for the next several hours. I will do my best to get caught up and go meta-diving later tonight/tomorrow at the latest.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Happy birthday!

Thanks! It was a lot of fun.

I am just about done my meta-diving. It will take a bit for me to grab links to make a complete post, so although I'm fine with a Cabd lynch, please don't end the day before I get the chance to post.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Okay, so Lady's scum games that I found were these:
Bloodbath in Camden
-In this game, her play was very much like the current game. It was a scum victory. Lady's ISO is here.


Epic Time Mafia
-In this game, her play was similar but she was a whole lot lurkier and got lynched on D2. It was a scum loss. Lady's ISO is here.
Added note: Salamence was also scum in this game and his play was very similar to his play in the current game (up until he flaked).


Mafia Through a Puppy's Eyes
-In this game, her play was similar, but not as abrasive, and she was a bit lurky. It was a scum victory. Lady's ISO is here.


Playground Mafia
-In this game, her play was similar, even more abrasive, she lurked a bit, was killed on N3. It was a scum victory. Lady's ISO is here.

She is a pretty hard busser as scum, as well.

Now, the problem is that even though I enjoyed reading those games in order to research, it wasn't actually very fruitful for its intended purpose, in that I also looked at some of Lady's town games, and her playstyle is generally similar there, too. The ones I looked at were [oops, redacted name as the game is not over yet] (less rude, less insulting in that game); Matriarchy (lurky, otherwise similar to the current game); Paranoia (lurky, less abrasive, little effort); Flavourless Mafia (much less abrasive, a bit lurky, little effort); Powerful Wizards (less abrasive, only one day's worth of posts, though) and Mafia Pinnipedum; (rude, obnoxious, etc.)

In other words, there is not a whole lot to garner from all of that at this point, but I am glad to have gone looking nonetheless because maybe it will be helpful to others who know her from other games.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

And to complete the second request (re: meta-diving Ranmaru's scum games), it appears that he has posted in a lot of threads, but most of them are discussion threads rather than game threads. I could only find one completed scum game but it was a Newbie game from 2011, so meh. Essentially, he played a decent newb-scum game, then lurked up a storm for the last couple of weeks of the game to stay under the radar. The game was Newbie 1151.

He started another game as scum in 2011 but only made about 14 posts before replacing out, but for the sake of completeness, it was SMBM II: Defence of Yoshi's Island.

So not much enlightenment to be had there, I'm afraid.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Looking back at Cabd's posts, I think it's a pretty safe bet that there are more scum among his top two "tiers":

Sneaking a post in from work; will explain these later but here's my initial thoughts:

Tier "I'm more likely to eat a dick while falling off the Empire State Building while singing "Singing in the Rain" than these things have the probability to be scum"

Vi
Lady Lambdadelta

Tier "Probably not Scum but weaker than the above couple"

zakk
Ranmaru
Nachomamma8

For what it's worth, those really are my reads and this game is being snowed really hard FMPOV.

Hahahahaha.


Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

3. jazzmyn looks scummier, due to avoiding the wagon + metaing Lambda instead

4. the singer kill throws more suspicion on Lambda as well

3. I wasn't "avoiding" the wagon; someone previously asked me to meta Lady and Ranmaru and I said I would so I wanted to get those posts in before the day ended. Cabd was at L-1 and I didn't want to hammer him before I got finished.

4. Yep.

And if you want to talk about those

actually

"avoiding" the Cabd wagon, take a look at this:

Votecount 2.18

BBmolla
Cabd - 5 (BBmolla, Master Zik, Nachomamma, Vi, singersigner)
Jazzmyn
Kagami - 2 (Cabd, zakk)
Lady Lambdadelta
Master Zik - 2 (LLD, Ranmaru)
Nachomamma8
Ranmaru
singersigner
Vi
zakk

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is (expired on 2015-07-30 17:00:00)

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Hi Ranmaru,

After re-reading the game with a scum flip in the bag, I think that you and Lady are most likely scum. There is one fib that I have told during the game, though. I never actually had a town read on Lady; I just made that up.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

What was your reasoning for voting me?

I didn't vote for you. That was Sala/BBMolla.

What did you conclude from seeing my scum meta?

Nothing, because you appear to have only one completed scum game (a Newbie game at that) and you flaked on the only other scum game you had after only 14 posts.

Why did you make the Lady read up?

Because I wanted to see if she would bite on the "Jazz is useless town [undercurrent] so let's keep her alive for an easy lynch later [/undercurrent]" meme that Vi was pitching.

It seems she did.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Vote: Plum/Ran

Then what is this supposed to mean?

That is me mixing up who replaced who, apparently. (With 8 players having replaced out, I will forgive myself for that lapse.)

But this is strange:

Her introduction post is a bit of a disconnect from her vote on Plum/Me yesterday.

I mean, shouldn't

you

, of all people, be cognizant of who you replaced?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I have a restriction, new on Day 3, that says I can't vote first or last on a wagon (unless and until it's 3 person lylo) so I can't start a wagon at the moment. Otherwise, I'd be voting for Lady or Ranmaru at present.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Which brings me to: Cabd staying on your wagon was a curious thing. Thats making me rethink a lot of my suspicions, including you.

I agree with this.

-VI looks very scummy (right after it's started, jumps off Plum and puts Zik at L-2)
...
- Lambda looks bad for a lot of reasons (not only not being on the wagon, but defending Cabd, and also fighting with singer right before singer ended up dead, though admittedly that's WIFOM) Lambda's hammer now looks really bad, considering a scum pairing of her/Cabd
- Nacho doesn't really look good or bad from things imo

Also agreed with these bits.

- singersigner we know is town (we should all read her posts closely to find out why she was killed, really wasn't expecting that kill, was expecting Zik or Ranmaru)

I was expecting the NK to be either Singer or me.

- Ranmaru is still on Zik (dumb, but is it scum, probably not)

More likely is, in my view.

- I still want Kagami dead, but I was also willing to lynch just about anyone and was going to switch when Lambda stole the hammer from me)
- Jazz looks quite a bit worse (not on the wagon)

Already addressed above.

- Kagami wasn't voting anybody according to the vote count (has made 52 posts over 12 days... without a vote)

True.

Also, Quaroath (cabd)'s early "frustration/meh" vote on Jazzmyn reminds me of scumbuddy behavior/distancing/etc.

Nope. That was scum-Qua trying to push a mislynch on me when he thought he had an opening and then backing off almost immediately when he got called out on it by Master Zik. I am town. You should perhaps go and look at the rest of Qua/Cabd's (confirmed scum) posts as well for further insight on that.

(side note: Zik's post after it looks even townier now in hindsight)

How do you reconcile your putative "scum" read of me with this? Do you think that Master Zik is somehow "covering" for a hypothetical scum-me?

Those NOT down for the Master Zik lynch are far likelier town. (I'm in there, I'm town. Boom)

I am also in there, and also town. Boom.

Those PUSHING for a Master Zik lynch, or the ones who were giving lip service to the Cabd lynch, without actually being on it, are where scum is to be found (e.g. VI, Jazzmyn)

I never pushed for a Master Zik lynch; in fact, I said I would not vote to lynch him, same as you. I also did not avoid the Cabd lynch, as already set out above, nor did I vote on it, same as you.

– I highly doubt Zik is scum, but I could have easily been like "yup, Zik's scum because *sheepy reasons* sooo vote: zik" with little to no consequences – but I didn't)

I am not sure what your point is with this particular part of your post. Can you please elucidate?

TL;DR: we should lynch within [Vampirate, Kagami, Lambda, Jazzmyn] today.

I'd say within Lady, Ranmaru, Vampirate, and possibly Kagami at this point.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I mean, shouldn't

you

, of all people, be cognizant of who you replaced?

Regards,
Jazz

Ranmaru?

Reaching so hard, she's like Michael Jordan in Space Jam.

Nope. I am not "reaching" at all. I am just reading and analyzing as always.

I have a restriction, new on Day 3, that says I can't vote first or last on a wagon (unless and until it's 3 person lylo) so I can't start a wagon at the moment. Otherwise, I'd be voting for Lady or Ranmaru at present.

Regards,
Jazz

Thank you for this defensive post attempting to absolve yourself of something.

There is nothing the least bit "defensive" about my post, I have no reason whatsoever to need to be "absolved" of anything, and I have done no such thing. That said, I am grateful for you stepping up and demonstrating that I am right about you being scum. It is much appreciated.

It doesn't appear that you're more concerned with how people perceive you than finding scum at all, not even a little!

You are quite correct that I am not more concerned with how I am perceived than I am about finding scum. My entire purpose in this game is to find scum, and I think I have. The hilarious thing, though, is that I think you messed up what you meant to write there - I think you intended to insult me and falsely call me scum rather than town - because you found yourself quite rattled to realize that I'm not as "useless" as you thought I would be.

And if you have an issue with my role being given a restriction today, take it up with the game moderator.

Can we please lynch this?

And the scummy derision comes out again, how typical. I am not a "this" nor an inanimate object. Kindly refrain from referring to me as such.

As noted above, I cannot be the first (or last) vote on a wagon at this point in time, so would someone else please vote Lady so that I can?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

^this does look like bussing.

As mentioned previously, that was scum-Qua trying to press a mislynch on me when he (mistakenly) thought he had an opening and he backed off almost immediately when he got called out on it. Please re-read Qua/Cabd's (confirmed scum) posts for further insight into this.

I guess it does seem to be the case that salamance was posting elsewhere while flaking from this game, but it sounds like he was turned off by the posting habits in this game, which is believable.

Sala was most definitely posting elsewhere at great length while deliberately lurking in this game; there is no question about that. Could you please specify where you got the impression that his extreme lurkitude was due to "it sounds like he was turned off by the posting habits in this game" (because I don't recall him indicating such).

im replacing zik slot for convenience. because vi outed me. ut said its ok.

VOTE: LLD

Muchas gracias.

Vote: Lady

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Continuing to re-read in light of the flips, it strikes me that Singer was likely correct when she said that Vi should have been mod-killed for her egregious actions in the thread.

Does anyone have any idea why that didn't happen?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

You don't modkill unless the slot's integrity is compromised.

Really? I have modkilled (elsewhere) for much less than "the slot's integrity is compromised" and I am pretty sure that I have seen modkills here for much less than "the slot's integrity is compromised" as well. Could you please elucidate?

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Vote: Plum/Ran

Then what is this supposed to mean?

That is me mixing up who replaced who, apparently. (With 8 players having replaced out, I will forgive myself for that lapse.)

But this is strange:

Her introduction post is a bit of a disconnect from her vote on Plum/Me yesterday.

I mean, shouldn't

you

, of all people, be cognizant of who you replaced?

Regards,
Jazz

I mean, shouldn't

you

, of all people, be cognizant of who you replaced?

Regards,
Jazz

Ranmaru?

@Ranmaru:

You haven't answered, and this is the third time I am asking.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

It would be a terrible mod error to modkill a player when the problem can be resolved by a force replace.

Okay, I will leave this for now because it may be a distraction, and just a "different site/different view" sort of thing.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

@Ranmaru:

You haven't answered, and this is the third time I am asking.

Regards,
Jazz

This is #4 now.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Ranmaru,

Why do you continue to ignore my question? I cannot help but think that it is because you realize that any "genuine" response to it would out you as scum.

See post 2019 (first request)

See post 2034 (second request)

See post 2061 (third request)

See post 2066 (fourth request)

This is my fifth request.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Bah!

Go, town!

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

SINGER WAS FREAKING RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jazzmyn

was freaking right as well. Plenty of credit.

Yeah, perhaps, but I was so turned off by the game and the extreme hostility and gratuitous swearing and constant crap (mostly from Lady but also from you, Vi) that I didn't say a whole lot more that I probably

should

have, because it took everything I had not to just replace out after most of the original players had already replaced out and you and Lady were still going on and on and on and on with your drama and BS (and never stopped). So, no credit to me there. I essentially just didn't want to continue the game after a certain point but stuck with it only because I didn't want to screw over the town or cause more angst for the game mod.

But this was the

least

enjoyable game that I have ever played, frankly, mostly because of Lady and you.

Also, you abusing your mod powers to out Master Zik as a Sonic alt was absolutely inexcusable. I am shocked that you got only a one month suspension from moderating. In my view, you should have been banned permanently from moderating, but at least your subsequent behaviour proved the point that I made to Red Coyote on Day 1.

Anyway, onward and upward. Congrats to scum on the win.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Metal Sonic...
You not only thought I was scum against all logic ...

That wasn't against logic at all. You acted scummily, you posted scummily, you behaved scummily. It was more than reasonable and logical to view you as scum.

vezokpiraka and Jazzmyn both undermined their credibility by going after me with the dumbest of attacks.

This is not true. You acted scummily, you posted scummily, you behaved scummily. Nobody's credibility was undermined by viewing you as scum in the circumstances, except your own.

Really the only people who did decently in the Town were RedCoyote and singersigner, and that's largely because I can't think of a flaw.

I can't agree with that. I think they both just as many mistakes as others, but perhaps singersigner slightly less so than Red.

In other words, the entire Town lost, lost hard, it wasn't close, and very few people can say they're not ready for a fair heaping of blame for it. Let it be done.

This, I agree with. It was an awful game all around. We all messed up.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

(Pissing off Town players is a bad move regardless of alignment.)

This is true, which is precisely why you should strive not to continue to do so in future.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

...Yeah. It's useless to explain it to you.

This is uncalled for. Look, Vi, you were scummy in this game, you acted scummy in this game, you were called out as scummy in this game. You really have no cause to criticize others for calling you out as scummy in this game, so stop it already. Master Zik was NOT scummy in this game.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

O, didn't realize that. I basically skipped any post that included the word "regards" in it.

Lol. Well, that may have been your downfall, I guess. I can't help it, it's just my nature to be try to maintain being polite and friendly at heart. I love the game but, regardless of alignment, it is important to me to try my best to remain civil and friendly, even when others are not, and I do not anticipate that changing.

Regards,

Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Plum, I'm sorry for upsetting you. Same to you Jazzmyn.Same to you Jazzmyn.

You did not upset me even remotely in the slightest at any time at all during the game whatsoever. So, no apologies are necessary at all. I have no idea why you think you should apologize. As I said earlier, congrats to scum on the win.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

In this game, Vi has quite definitively shown herself to be a "VI" on so many levels. She played horribly, which is not a big deal on its own, of course, but she also abused her mod abilities in the process (which IS a big deal) and in the aftermath of the game, she continues to make ridiculous excuses for her horrible play, and continues to breach the site rules in her post-game posts.

Unreal.

Vi, you should be very ashamed of yourself, and the site should turn your temporary mod-ban into a permanent mod-ban if it wishes to maintain its credibility.

Regards,
Jazz