For old times' sake.
Genesis Mafia - Game Over!
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 79, Salamence20 wrote:Yeah RC is scum. Ive never seen him like this.
Could you please elaborate a bit? (I don't recall ever playing a game with RedCoyote, even though the user name sounds vaguely (very vaguely) familiar to me.)
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In post 128, Kinetic wrote:I do not believe RC is worth 4 votes right now. Well, I don't believe he deserves more right now. I don't think he's as scummy as the vote count indicates.
Why are you worried about it, though? I mean, 4 votes at this point on Day 1 shouldn't even be 'breaking a sweat' territory for town, although it certainly might be for scum. So why is it that you seem so concerned about it?
In post 141, Vi wrote:
okay you're seriously getting frigging creepyIn post 134, Albert B. Rampage wrote:These games start out slow like a graduation dance at Plum's high school.
Indeed. Seriously creepy, and sadly nothing new for him.
In post 144, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I view creepy as a completely subjective projection that is a reflection of the insecurities of the person calling things creepy. Like you think in a predatory way which makes you project that onto other people. In reality, you're the one that has hidden agendas in your interactions and not me lol. I don't even think that way, I'm entertaining myself and getting into the groove for this game by speaking my mind. I'm posting for the sake of getting more comfortable posting.
It's such a white knight social justice warrior type of move to be calling things creepy like that as well. Like if I said to your mom some kinky stuff that would seem over the top for you but she's into way, way weirder, more extreme stuff than either of us initially predicted.
But I digress. I really have nothing to talk about because Vi's vote is superfluous and the vote on me is probably deserved given I can't find my flow yet. Still liking my vote where it is given the circumstances.
No, you are genuinely creepy, as you have been for years. I'm amazed that this site puts up with you. I almost didn't sign up for this game because you had, but then decided that I would sign up anyway on the basis that I could probably just ignore you if you confirmed into the game. Unfortunately, it hasn't turned out that way.
In post 145, Albert B. Rampage wrote:In terms of the tame things you say and write to amuse yourself, what is creepy? I just don't understand that and have seen a lot of people write that in games. "Oh no, you can't say that, it's so creepy". What does that even mean?
Are you implying I'm trying to pick up married women on mafiascum? Trying to be provocative? Making veiled threats? Does anyone feel physically unsafe?
A joke is a joke, there's nothing off the table in comedy. The same thing that makes one person cringe is the thing that makes another person laugh. Think of it. Tattoos people get with typos, jokes about taboo topics like sex and religion, people slipping and falling...the same thing that someone finds embarassing is what another finds funny. I didn't say you have to find my jokes funny, I'm really just putting an extraverted energy out in the thread to counter my natural tendency to lurk and spectate. Actively creating jokes as things cross my mind, that aren't really that extravagant to me, is conducive to posting more game related content. You write random things to unblock and gain more momentum and investment in the game, that's all there is to it.
You can't just cut the creative process by denouncing someone as having bad intentions or being a source of fear or unease, especially on behalf of somebody else. Like I said, the fact that you feel that way and have the need to express yourself on it only sheds light on the way that your brain works and how you see the world. I'm going to take a note not to censor myself here hoping that more misguided accusations come flying my way.
No, that is all BS, you are just (and still) creepy, and you do nothing to move the game forward. I get that you think you're all 'edgy' and 'cool' and whatever, but you're not. At all. Not in the slightest.
Here's an idea: how about attempting to contribute meaningfully to a game for once? I realize that this will be a new experience for you, but you might consider trying it just for once.
In post 150, Albert B. Rampage wrote:All the reasoning for voting so far has been terrible. Plum is overexplaining. RC is devisting from meta. These reasons suck. Rather than making up my own faulty reason to vote someone, I'm choosing to wait. You're voting me because I'm waiting for something I find scummy before I attack. Then you're just disagreeing to make it look like you're building more reasons to vote for me, which doesn't really make any sense unless you think that "the longer he waits to tell us about what he finds scummy so far, the likelier he is to be scum!". If that's your argument against me then good luck to you.
Personally, I am willing to vote you just to see you gone because of your extreme creepiness, coupled with your consistent lack of contribution to a game.
In post 158, Albert B. Rampage wrote:You're trying to make me your enemy but I won't play the game as your enemy because I don't know your alignment. I don't even have a good guess yet. In the meantime, me just talking makes me look more and more townie to the players who understand the limitations of my acting and playstyle. I'm coming out the winner in our conversation that you have failed to escalate into a conflict.
No, while you appear to be quite enamoured of yourself, I doubt that anyone else is; you are just (and still) creepy.
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Jazz-
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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About the "creepy" discussion, in retrospect I probably should have just left it alone, but it bugged me enough to have to take a step back from the game. I'm over it now, I will refrain from saying anything more about it, and I apologize for contributing to the distraction.
As for the game itself, I will do a fresh read from the start and post up my thoughts in a bit.
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Jazz-
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As I was looking at Kinetic's posts, I initially thought that his posts saying that he didn't know what to do because he had not been around for a long time might have been legit but then I looked him up on the site and found that he had, in fact, been in another game quite recently (that started a few weeks before this one), and in that game it seems that he played much differently than he has done in this game. In that game, he was active, involved, confident, aggressive, and even bigging up his reputation as an old-timer, while in this game, he seems to be trying to portray himself as weak, shy, and uncertain.
That doesn't make sense to me.
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I have gone through the thread and everyone's ISOs, so my reads are developing. At this point, several are in the neutral category, of course, but a few are scum-leaning and a couple are town-leaning.
On the scum side, I have Kinetic. On the town side, I have Lady.
On the leaning scum quadrant, I have Salamence. His push on RedCoyote seemed weak and somewhat contrived to me. He eventually fessed up to being mistaken when he repeatedly called RedCoyote a liar, but still kept his vote on RedCoyote anyway. His appeals to emotion made me cringe, too. I thought his posts 133 and 163 were weaksauce. Then, in post 185, he said he didn't like Juls, vezo, and RedCoyote following Vi, but then in 246, he followed himself.
I have Albert, vezo and Plum also as leaning scum. These are more gut-based, or based on less than solid reads, but there they are.
I have everyone else as essentially neutral at this point, but I didn't like RedCoyote's appeals to emotion any more than I liked Salamence's, and Vi makes me suspicious for reasons that I cannot articulate.
I see that Kinetic is currently at L-2 and is being replaced in any event, so I suppose it would be cruel to vote him at this time.
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Jazz-
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In post 268, Vi wrote:That's a lot of Town-leaning reads you've got there.
You're joking, right?
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Jazz-
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In post 270, Vi wrote:It's more aligned with sarcasm.
I'll say it more plainly. That's not a very difficult post for scum to make.
It wasn't an easy one for town to make, given that it took me several hours of combined reading and thinking to make it.
If we are to gauge posts on the basis of "not very difficult for scum to make", that would include every post in the thread so far, including all of your own.
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Jazz-
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In post 274, Vi wrote:Scum can take several hours to read and think about a post, and ultimately come up with one that says "basically everyone is scummy". 273 is the second post where you have said essentially that.
With all due respect, that is nonsense.
I took the time required to read the thread and everyone's ISOs, and to think about them and the interactions to date because that is the best way I know to try to find scum. I am suspicious of you, and most others, because the only player's alignment of which I am certain is my own.
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In post 277, Vi wrote:>Come to conclusion that everyone is scummy
>Put in several hours of :effort: to read the game
>Come to conclusion that everyone is scummy
I'm sorry, but now you do not even appear to be making sense. At first, you said that my reads post above was "not difficult for scum to make"; then I told you that it was difficult for town to make since it involved several hours of reading the thread and everyone's ISOs and thinking about the interactions, etc., and I noted that if we are to gauge posts on the basis of them being "not difficult for scum to make" nearly every post in the thread, yours included, would fall into that category; then you went into strawman territory, saying, "Scum can take several hours to read and think about a post, and ultimately come up with one that says "basically everyone is scummy"" - what on earth does scum reading and thinking about a single post have to do with anything here? - and you ignored my point that your "it's not difficult for scum to make" line applies to essentially every post in the thread to date; and your last post (quoted above) is yet another strawman.
This strikes me as weird behaviour on your part.
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Jazz-
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In post 278, Vi wrote:Why should I or anyone else vote for someone other than you?
Several reasons, the first of which is that I'm town. The second of which is that I'm pretty good at sussing out scum eventually. The third of which is that there are other players in the game, yourself included, who appear (to me) to be leaning scum.
If I ask the same question of you, that is, "Why should I or anyone else vote for someone other than you?" I wonder if your answer be any different than mine?
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EBWOP because I missed a word (now bolded below).
Several reasons, the first of which is that I'm town. The second of which is that I'm pretty good at sussing out scum eventually. The third of which is that there are other players in the game, yourself included, who appear (to me) to be leaning scum.
If I ask the same question of you, that is, "Why should I or anyone else vote for someone other than you?" I wonder if your answerwouldbe any different than mine?
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In post 284, Vi wrote:It would be.
Would you care to share with the class, or are you content with silly non-responsive posts?
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In post 287, Vi wrote:This conversation ceased being productive several posts ago.
If so, that is entirely down to you.
Vote: Vi
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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Your post makes no sense to me. What is it that you are trying to say?
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In post 282, RedCoyote wrote:omg I missed Vi so much
This is vomit inducing. Vi might be town and she might be scum - more likely scum at this point since she has confirmed that she is content with posting silly non-responsive crap over actual content and she has shied away from answering legitimate questions - but why are you engaging in butt kissing instead of scum hunting?
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In post 297, Quaroath wrote:Until you decided the make 10 of the last 25 posts, we were tied at 8. Wah.
Lil kettle action there.
I feel like I need to make a corny joke now.
Apologies, but I don't understand your quoted post above. Please elucidate.
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Jazz-
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In post 295, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I agree with lynching Jazz.
*sniffle*
Of course you do, because you're either scum or grotesquely lazy town. Either way, you are not helpful to town.
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In post 309, Plum wrote:If you end up seeing yourself as the only one helpful to the Town - and you are the only one who *does* see yourself as helpful to Town - well.
Where on earth did you get that from?
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Jazz-
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 316, Plum wrote:I don't think it matters.
I think it matters that you are making up stuff and avoiding a legitimate question.
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In post 318, Jazzmyn wrote:In post 316, Plum wrote:I don't think it matters.
I think it matters that you are making up stuff and avoiding a legitimate question.
Regards,
Jazz
In post 319, Plum wrote:Okay.
So how about addressing the fact that you were making up stuff and avoiding a legitimate question?-
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In post 327, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Frankly this personal harassment doesn't bother me, that said, it encourages a toxic and vicious atmosphere on the site and that crosses my boundaries.
Typical abuser, abuses to his heart's content, posts about it ad nauseam, loves that he gets away with it for years, and then is the first to whine when he is eventually called out on it.
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Jazz-
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In post 352, Albert B. Rampage wrote:What I've learned here:
When somebody makes a joke at the expense of another person who brushes it off as a joke and doesn't feel offended, get up in arms!!! The patriarchy in motion!! Getting away with abusing women!!!
When somebody actually gets personally insulted repeatedly and lets his bullies know that they are contributing to a toxic atmosphere, "justice is finally served! don't cry to the mods! nobody has your back!"
Behavior like that is what makes online communities breed a culture of harassment where it becomes acceptable as long as "a couple people agree", starting from this thread, beginning with Vi's comment. That's how these things start. I'm getting a good night's sleep now because it's 3AM and I've had enough of your harassment for one night. I hope the mod rightfully force replaces you because this game really didn't need you to bring this back up again after I thought we closed the topic earlier.
In other words, *sniffle*
It's all fine and dandy when you constantly harrass and try to intimidate others but when anyone dares to speak up to you, you go crying to the mods claiming intimidation when it doesn't actually exist.
Got it.
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In post 355, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Why are you voting for Vi?
Initially, I was suspicious of Vi but I couldn't really articulate my reasons for it (as I mentioned at the time); it was an overall thing, for soft sorts of reasons, the kind that give you that niggling feeling but you have to let it percolate for a while to see which way it goes. It included the 'fluffiness' of many of her posts, her trying to shut others down from making their own inquiries of players aside from those that she personally wanted to focus on, the way she seemed to expect others to just follow her lead and leave their own reads at the door, that kind of thing. Then last night, all she did was fill her posts with strawmen, toss out one liners, and try to disparage others instead of trying to shed light. This appeared to me to be her way of trying to throw mud at the wall illegitimately while simultaneously avoiding answering questions herself. This, collectively, strikes me as scummy behaviour.
In post 372, Salamence20 wrote:Is there ever a game with GreyIce/LLD where there isnt some kind of fight invloving them?
I am not sure whether this means that you think I am GreyIce, but in another game someone mentioned that a player called GreyIce has a similar avatar to mine; for the record, I have had this avatar for a long time (since before GreyIce joined the site, in fact) but I do not know who that person is.
In post 363, Vi wrote:ah, the feeling when you want to lead someone to things that are so much more productive
and then the other party n e v e r responds
If this is intended to refer to me, I went to b e d. This site is blocked at my office, so I can only read and post from home, which means during available evenings and weekends. I rarely leave questions unanswered, although you may have to wait a few hours sometimes to allow for things like sleep, work, food, etc.
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In post 387, RedCoyote wrote:
...damn it, Vi.
325 - 355 is all non-game related and will be treated as such by me. Frankly, this is very disappointing as I don't see howABR/LLD/Jazzwill be able to read each other objectively going forward.
Why have you omitted Vi from the bolded part even though you have previously identified Vi as the instigator?
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In post 373, Albert B. Rampage wrote:@370 Expect personal questions to be ignored.
That's fair enough, but I expect relevant game related content and you haven't provided any yet. Can the rest of us expect some any time soon?
In post 378, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:GreyICE is my fiancee. Dont worry no one thinks you're him.
Oh, okay, thanks.
In post 379, RedCoyote wrote:Someone's jealous...
*rolls eyes* Someone's fluffing again.
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Jazz-
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In post 387, RedCoyote wrote:There's a fine line between being overly fluffy and having fun in a game.
I disagree. I do not think that is a fine line at all. Fun is great, of course, and that is why I am here (and why I assume everyone else is here) - because it's fun! But one can make jovial and fun posts at the same time as making substantive posts, rather than posting little more than fluff to try to skate through a game. These are different things, in my view. It is way too easy for scum to post mostly fluff in an effort to appear (artificially) active in a game, when their only real motive is to avoid being prodded or being called out as lurkers, etc.
In post 387, RedCoyote wrote:How would you like it if players attacked you for being too robotic?
I have been attacked for all sorts of reasons and non-reasons during my tenure here, so I think that being attacked for being "too robotic" would be a bit of a hoot, actually, since that would be a first.
In post 387, RedCoyote wrote:Believe me[...]
No can do. I don't "believe" anyone who tries to tell me that I should just "believe" them without them posting anything of substance in respect of the matters that they want me buy into; I prefer to come to my own conclusions, thanks just the same, and I think that you are still continuing to be rather fluffy.
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Jazz-
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In post 392, RedCoyote wrote:Oh, because I don't think she realized it until after the fact. Plus she's a site moderator, so, rightly or wrongly, that carries a certain gravitas and impartiality.
Had I thought she was deliberately fanning the flames, however, I'd say as much.
That strikes me as worthy of a spot in the top ten of worst possible rationales ever expressed in a game of mafia. You seem to be saying, on one hand, that because Vi is/was a mod on a quiet little site in a corner of the vast internet, you are willing to follow her willy nilly, and yet you imply, on the other hand, that she is so stupid that she didn't 'realize until after the fact' that she instigated the very thing that she clearly intended to instigate (and did in fact instigate from the outset), which she has not resiled from (nor should she) and which resulted in a derail of a game thread on the very same quiet little site in a corner of the vast internet.
Seriously?
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In post 392, RedCoyote wrote:Plus she's a site moderator, so, rightly or wrongly, that carries a certain gravitas and impartiality.
No, it doesn't.
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In post 408, RedCoyote wrote:I then implore you to explain to me how it is the case for Vi and not the case for Kinetic/zakk. Hell, zakk's first two opening posts are pure fluff, and yet you clearly pass over the opportunity to call him out on it in favor of Vi.
This is nonsense. In my reads post at 265, I have Kinetic as scum, and I was prepared to vote for him except that it would have put him at L-1 and he was in the process of being replaced. Zakk hadn't even replaced in at the time that I posted 265, which included the part about leaning scum on Vi. He just replaced in yesterday. Lady asked me why I was voting for Vi and I set that out in my post 377; it has nothing to do with Kinetic/zakk, who I have already put in the scum pile.
In post 408, RedCoyote wrote:This is completely unfair. I'm fine with you disagreeing with me, but "top ten worst"? You aren't being fair at all.
It really is top ten material, in my view.
In post 408, RedCoyote wrote:Once again, my contention is that because Vi is a sitewide moderator that has to deal with scummers reporting posts and making decisions about banning/suspending players on a regular basis, she is necessarily more adept at compartmentalizing drama and seperating it from her Mafia player persona. Vi is the closest thing you have to an impartial player when it comes to an issue like this. Full stop.
You began this by saying that you (concern trolling?) "don't see how ABR/LLD/Jazz will be able to read each other objectively going forward" and you left Vi out of that even though she was the instigator. When asked to explain that, you said it's because she is/was a site mod, which is patently ridiculous, since it was she who instigated it in the first place. By your logic, she should have known that it was a 'hot-button' issue for the site, and yet, there it is.
In post 408, RedCoyote wrote:This is a very bad post, Jazz. I'm disappointed in the direction you are going. I'd like to have a reasonable discussion with you. You don't need to succumb to cheap talking points unless you are scum.
They are not 'cheap talking points' at all. They are a reasonable response to the words you wrote, based upon the available evidence. That you appear to be stumbling over yourself to try to explain away your words is illuminating.
Regards,
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In post 420, Vi wrote:Also, as before, Jazzmyn is a super-easy target [...]
You keep saying this, but I do not understand it. What do you mean?
Regards,
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My first choice would be Zakk, over either or Vi or vezo, but there doesn't appear to be any appetite for that at present and there is a deadline looming so I am going to have to be content with either a vezo lynch or a Vi lynch over a no-lynch. Why do you prefer a Vi lynch over a vezo lynch?
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Jazz-
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In post 542, Jazzmyn wrote:My first choice would be Zakk, over eitherorVi or vezo, but there doesn't appear to be any appetite for that at present and there is a deadline looming so I am going to have to be content with either a vezo lynch or a Vi lynch over a no-lynch. Why do you prefer a Vi lynch over a vezo lynch?
Regards,
Jazz
Typo corrected by way of strikeout.
Regards,
Jazz-
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In post 561, Juls wrote:So I'm about 5 pages behind still. Will try to finish reading and post tonight but I honestly thought RC/Vi. So I might need to reread the whole thing again.
If you "honestly thought RC/Vi", why were you voting Plum?
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In post 613, Jazzmyn wrote:Having reread the thread in its entirety, Juls appears to me to me to be very strongly scum. Kinetic/zakk also appears to me to be very strongly scum.
Regards,
Jazz
Make that Juls/singersigner.
Regards,
Jazz-
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 615, Vi wrote:Could you please explain why zakk and why not Albert B. Rampage?
Albert is scummy too, but zakk is stuck with Kinetic both fibbing and fluffing up a storm, and I have never known Kinetic to do that as town.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 623, Vi wrote:So literally nothing zakk has done changes your read on that slot?
Ah, the "Rule of So" rears its ugly head. When you find yourself starting a sentence with the word, "So" and then you go on to insinuate that someone has said something that they did not say, that should be your first clue that you are (deliberately) engaging in logical fallacies and misrepresenting the other person. Why are you misrepresenting what I wrote, Vi, and what do you hope to gain from such misrepresentations? It's a scummy thing to do, you know.
The thing about Kinetic that makes it difficult for me to let go of it is that Kinetic not only lied but also did a complete 180 of town-Kinetic. It wasn't just a 'lurker' thing which would be null, but a completely against-the-grain-of-town-Kinetic. Did you read the posts in this game to which I was referring and the posts in his previous game to which I was referring?
If not, see my post 256
And see Kinetic's posts in the current game here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ort=Gohere
And then see Kinetic's posts in his previous game to which I was referring here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61784 and here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=61975
If you can then come back and honestly say that this is something that should just be dropped as not probative of alignment, I will at least give your position a fair listen and serious open minded consideration, but I think that you should at least read it before you dismiss it out of hand with nothing but hand-waving misrepresentation such as you have done in the portions of your post that I have quoted in this post (above and below). It is not at all that I think he's the be-all and end-all necessarily for today, but it appears so blatant (to me) that I don't think it should be dismissed with a hand-wave and swept under the carpet, so to speak.
In post 623, Vi wrote: You're going to hold onto that and not read anything else?
And you continue to misrepresent me in your second sentence as well. I said no such thing, and it appears that you are deliberately twisting what I wrote in order to misrepresent it. I re-read the entire thread (more than once, actually) and I quite clearly said that I had done so. At no point and in no universe is it true that I did "not read anything else" and your insinuation otherwise appears to be malicious.
In post 623, Vi wrote:So your list o' reads that you're willing to do something about now consists oftwopeople who aren't able to defend themselves while you leave off the people who are both here and (according to both you and me) still scummy.
The Rule of So again, I see, and you continue to twist my words and misrepresent what I wrote in this next sentence as well. Why do you continue to do this?
I did not say anything remotely close to what you pretend that I said. There are not only two players that I am "willing to do something about", they are not "people who aren't able to defend themselves" - the slot is the slot is the slot as you well know - and I haven't "left off" other people who I think are scummy; it was not a reads list or a "list o' reads"; it was a simple post setting out my top two based upon a thorough re-read.
I re-read the entire thread, and also did a whole bunch of meta-searching and meta-reading on various players, by the way, and I offered up my two strongest scum reads in that post. I have other scum/scum-leaning reads, of course, as I'm sure everyone else in the game does as well, outside of the scum themselves. You are still among them, as is Albert (as both of you were yesterday as well, as you may recall). I did not feel the need to put all of that - or an entire reads list - into my previous post. Why do you pretend that I should have, or that it was anything of the sort?
All of my reads are subject to change upon re-reads, in the light of new evidence (flips), or in light of other new evidence that comes about by way of posts as the day progresses. Some have, so far, shifted one way or the other, but your repeated misrepresentations above appear to me to be quite deliberate, and that strikes me as scummy behaviour on your part.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 635, Vi wrote:ABR's play is easy like Sunday morning.
*vote the person who says easily punishable things
*vote Vi when convenient (for reasons that are best explained with the level of reasoning I'd expect from a seven-year-old)
*has spent the Day lurking instead of pushing his wagon
*only stops lurking to post about how he's beingoppressedby the SJWs
I concur with all of that, but would subsitute the word "Vi" in asterisk #2 with "anyone who he thinks he can get away with trying to bully and badmouth for reasons best explained with the level of reasoning one would expect from a 5 year old".
In post 635, Vi wrote:Your turn. Why is ABR Town? (it's like I have to ask this question a dozen times and maybe once I'll get an answer)
I haven't seen one yet. Perhaps third (13th?) time will be the charm.
In post 635, Vi wrote:ABR. LLD perhaps. SKrew. These are actually the people who have avoided taking any stand on Plum at all.
Are you sure those are the only ones? I will have to check my notes.
In post 635, Vi wrote:Like, Plum basically checked out of this game 2/3 of the way through Day 1. I interpret that as meaning she's out of options except lurking.
She is overdue for prodding, it appears, as are Sala and Sleepy.
@mod: please prod Plum, Sala and Sleepy. Or, better yet, please prod Plum and Sala, and replace Sleepy.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In the interest of full disclosure, Vi, about how my reads work upon re-reading the thread and further evidence and such, Ihadadjusted my read on you from scummy to leaning town prior to your post 623 in which you went full-misrep and fallacy-ridden again. But then you went full-misrep again; you should never go full-misrep.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 638, Vi wrote:Jazzmyn - I did not see 256 previously. Now that you've linked the games in question, I understand and acknowledge where you're coming from, and will not defend Kinetic's play. However, you have made at most a rather obscure reference to anything zakk has ever posted (in post 539), and I am concerned that you are not considering any of zakk's posts at all. It is my opinion that zakk's play on its own is strongly Townish. This is to such a degree that even after seeing what you have linked, I believe his slot is Town.
I maintain my disappointment and suspicion about how your top two suspects are literally unable to respond to anything you bring against them, especially since you say that you have many other people you think are scummy yet are not engaging them. To be honest, I think that your vote on zakk is futile at best, and would invite you to either join the Plum wagon or place it on someone who is more likely to gain traction Today.
I would be content with moving on to someone else Today if there is no appetite or traction on a zakk wagon (which is not clear yet since Day 2 so far has been pretty slow and there has not been much input from many of the players yet and now there are two more replacements incoming who have not yet posted), but I just do not want the egregious nature of Kinetic's posts (a lie compounded with nothing but fluff and a 180 degree turn from town-Kinetic) to be forgotten, that's all. I say that because I have seen it happen many times before that a scum replaces out and the replacement skates because everyone eventually forgets about or disregards the priors. I totally understand and agree with the 'benefit of the doubt' thing when it's simply lurking or otherwise null behaviour, but when it's out and out scummy behaviour such as lying and doing a 180, I think that it is important that this be recalled. I mean, I don't see any town motivation for Kinetic to have lied and to have behaved in a manner that is so opposite his town-self. And I am fairly sure that I have won as scum myself at some point for the very reason that even egregious scummy behaviour can and is so often forgotten (or forgiven) via replacement.
And for the nth time now, I have readallof the posts in the thread multiple times, including zakk's posts, so why you continue to suggest otherwise is beyond me. I would concur that his posts are not particularly scummyper sebut they don't exactly infuse me with warm fuzzies about him being town either. Without reference to his predecessor at all, I would put him as null at best.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 641, Vi wrote:Jazzmyn, could you please respond w.r.t. zakk's play?
Yes, see my post above; cross posting with you it appears.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 645, Vi wrote:Ignoring the zakk read if you like, would this work?
I'm not actually totally on board with SKrew being scum, but having had the experience of idiot scumpartners trying to turbobus me Day 1 on multiple occasions, I'm not ready to write it off.
I do not agree with all of your reads, if that is what those are (is that what it is?) but I can work with this as a hypothetical for the sake of discussion, if that is what you're after.
Leaving aside you and zakk, for obvious reasons (as discussed above), Sleepy is too deliberately non-participatory for me to get a read on him; it's scummy behaviour because he has added nothing of value to the game at all but it does appear to be a pattern for him as town (as per my meta reading on the weekend), so I would like to see the game mod forcibly replace him (and perhaps even for the site to restrict him in some way from signing up for games only to do absolutely nothing). Salamance looks a bit sketchy to me (I wasn't sold on him as town on Day 1 and I'm less sold today on Day 2; it appears that he has been able to post something like 200 posts in a few other games over the last couple of days but has not posted anything of substance whatsoever here during that same period) so I can't put him down as 'leaning town'. I cannot put Juls/singersigner leaning scum at most at present (as mentioned in previous posts above) but I look forward to seeing what singersigner has to contribute, as she may be able to assuage my misgivings in that regard.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 646, Jazzmyn wrote:I cannot put Juls/singersigneraboveleaning scum at most at present (as mentioned in previous posts above) but I look forward to seeing what singersigner has to contribute, as she may be able to assuage my misgivings in that regard.
EBWOP - missed a word, which totally messed up the sentence. Sorry about that.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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In post 635, Vi wrote:
... Your turn. Why is ABR Town? (it's like I have to ask this question a dozen times and maybe once I'll get an answer)In post 631, zakk wrote:Okay fine. But only because you said please.
Why do you think ABR is scummy, I get the exact opposite.
Zakk, it appears that you (and others) have dodged this question. Please answer it.
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In post 665, Nachomamma8 wrote:This is ABR's towngame, pure and true. He's been so apathetic about scumgames lately that he doesn't get emotionally invested enough in games as scum to let the crazy come on out.
I do not agree with this, based upon the evidence you have provided. See below.
In post 674, Nachomamma8 wrote:Spoiler: Exhibit A
Spoiler: Exhibit B
Spoiler: Exhibit C
Spoiler: Dee
Spoiler: Vi
While I didn't look at his alignment in that last link, I don't really think I need to.
I have looked at all of the games you cited. I do not think that they support the conclusion that you appear to draw from them. I have placed them in chronological order and will provide my take on them. Everyone else, of course, is invited to do the same and draw their own conclusions.
1. What you labelled as Exhibit C was the first in time. It ran from ~December 28, 2014 until ~Februarly 11, 2015. In #1, Albert played very much the same way as he played in the current game: personal attacks, no real scumhunting, just pronouncements from on high, off topic stuff, and petty sniping at others. He was scum in that game. (And when he was targeted by a Town PR at night and got caught as scum, he threw an arrogant, egotistical hissy fit, outed his scum partners because, he claimed, he was 'frustrated', publicly forfeited the game without consulting his scum partners, and then cried like a little girl for five pages in the post-game blaming his partners and the game moderators. He even went all tinfoil hat, claiming that the site's game mods were out to get him and were deliberately giving him bad partners and placing him in unwinnable situations.)
2. What you labelled as Exhibit D was second in time. Albert's only involvement in the game was on March 14, 2015 (shortly after his meltdown in #1 above), when he made a single post and then flaked. He was scum in that game.
3. What you labelled as Exhibit B was third in time. Albert's only involvement in the game was when he replaced into the game at about page 80 on ~March 17, 2015 (again shortly after his meltdown in #1 above), following which he made 3 meaningless posts and then flaked by March 19, 2015. He was scum in that game.
4. What you labelled as Exhibit A was fourth in time. It ran from ~March 21 to May 10. In #4, Albert played very differently than he played in the current game. He did actual scumhunting instead of the psuedo-scumhunting he does as scum, he was productive, he was useful, he actually analyzed stuff and made meaningful posts beyond one liners and edicts from on high. His arrogance, dickishness, and oversized ego still shine through, as always, but I think there is a real (albeit subtle) difference that comes through when he is town as opposed to when he is scum. In #4, he was Town.
5. What you labelled as Exhibit Vi was fifth in time. It ran from April 14 to May 17. In #5, Albert played very much like he played in the current game: personal attacks, no real scumhunting, just pronouncements from on high, deliberately off topic stuff, and petty sniping at others. He was scum in that game.
So, I don't think that your Exhibits serve at all to indicate Albert-Town in the current game.
If anything, I think they serve to indicate Albert in his scum-game, not his Town game. Especially if you look at them in chronological order. It looks like he had a major meltdown in February in that scum game you cited (#1 above), then deliberately flaked out of two scum games in March as a result of that. Then, it appears that he got over his freakout when he drew a town role in #4 and was certainly comfortable enough by April to go back to his normal (for him) scum meta in #5 above.
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Jazzmyn Mafia Scum
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