Mini 1821 Badass Women U-Pick Mafia - game over
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pieguyn
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pieguyn Survivor
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pieguyn Survivor
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you have got to be kidding me.In post 13, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:First off, I'm not interested in ordinary people. But, if any of you are aliens, time-travelers, or espers, please come see me. That is all!
HOW???-
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I am sitting here staring in sheer disbelief that the person I'm supposed to be observing somehow actually showed up here.In post 17, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Are you an alien, esper or time traveller?
Hmm, you DO remind me of Nagato~-
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pieguyn Survivor
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pieguyn
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I agree on Yume, not on kraska. what about 51 are you reading as town?In post 53, Luna Fox wrote:I think yume and karaska are probs town, Yume for the soft and Kraska because #51-
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pieguyn Survivor
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here's a question: if you thought me/LLD's exchange on page 1 was based around our flavor (it was), why do you even think it's alignment relevant?In post 68, kraska77 wrote:Okay then >.>-
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pieguyn Survivor
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why did you have to go and ruin our fun?In post 76, Yume wrote:Spo pie is Yuki and LLD is Haruhi.-
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the claim itself wasn't, her raising a bunch of hell because "if Cerberus did it in a previous game why can't I" and relating what me/LLD did to what she did was.In post 85, kraska77 wrote:Yeah that's not what I misunderstood
In that case, @pie why do you think Yume doing what she did was "incredibly dumb"-
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1. I have seen a game where Yume has done basically this exact thing as town, though I can't link it for alt-related reasons.In post 88, kraska77 wrote:Eh you're kinda exaggerating with the "raising hell" part
She got a little defensive
I don't see why you were quick to label her as town for a little defensiveness
her reaction can be easily faked
2. the reaction read to me as coming from a POV of "claiming ascetic first post is the correct theory play and if you have an issue with it take it up with everyone else who did it ever", not "I think I should be allowed to get away with this because someone else did it". that isn't "a little defensive", that's her making what she thought was a correct play and flipping out because she didn't understand why she was called out for doing it; it would not have been necessary for her to focus on it as much as she did as scum.
I don't have the slightest clue why you're attempting to nitpick over this, and I would like to know what your "better reasons" for town reading Yume are (if it's just due to her claim, then lol).-
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I think apart from kraska, people mostly took issue with you claiming ascetic, not you flavor roleplaying. you were correct to claim it in your first post, but you should stop making a big deal over it, just ignore it and move on.In post 87, Yume wrote:You flavor roleplayed, I flavor roleplayed. So explain to me how what I did and what you did isn't the same thing.-
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my issue with kraska's posting is that it's just all off. her reaction to me was to pick apart my Yume town read in really fine detail, despite the fact that she has the same town read on her, then when it comes to LLD's push she made no effort to understand it whatsoever and basically just handwaved it with those "I WILL END YOU" posts. the town read on LLD is shallow and reads more like appeasement.
her reaction to Yume was overblown and something I expect when you have to deal with someone for an extended period of time and don't know what else you can say besides "shut up and stop posting", not as a kneejerk reaction to being voted.
Luna/beegirl, why are you town reading her?-
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if you're expecting more than what's already happened, you'll be disappointed. all it was was just us messing around with our flavor.In post 144, pirate mollie wrote:I don't have much. I am watching to see how pie/lld play out and the weird dialogue around that. I am taking note of yume claiming ascetic. mostly I feel like pple are jumping at shadows.
can you explain your Luna read in more depth?-
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actually, now that I look at it again, mollie is someone else who I dislike kraska's reaction to. if you think someone is pushing you in a disingenuous way, you would usually have more conviction than just a "heh, might as well" vote.
I don't town read her for asking mollie for content, given it was mostly prompted by mollie pushing her.-
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my issue about your reaction to LLD has nothing to do with whether you were "fazed" or not. there are several reasons behind it:In post 173, kraska77 wrote:@pie
it's just a matter of differing styles then.
i dont really get fazed by pushes from others, so no it's not appeasement when i ignore people pushing me.
1. when LLD pushed you - and I don't mean after she had been pushing you for a while, you did this after she so much as RVS voted you - you made those two posts that were essentially joking around about "WHO ARE YOU, I WILL EAT YOU". I don't understand what the point of this is; it reads as if you thought you would be expected to react but weren't sure how, and thought kinda-not-seriously yelling about it in that way would be an approach no one would take issue with. if you didn't care, why not just ignore it? if you were just hoping to have a bit of fun, that would be OK if it was only the first post, but doesn't seem plausible for the second post; at that point her push on you was distinctly serious.
2. it's in complete contrast to the approach you took, and continue to take, with me. here you are trying to walk me through why I'm on the wrong track with my scum read on you. why doesn't LLD get the same treatment? I would expect you'd at the very least *ask* her why she's scum reading you; one would generally be interested in working with a town read in order to try and clear things up for them. again, it reads like you weren't sure how you could go about interacting with her in a way that would look good.
my issue isn't the fact you were annoyed at Yume; that is fine, and probably reasonable. my issue is the fact that after her one post where she voted you, you immediately went all-out into "just shut up for the rest of the game" mode. this is a type of annoyance that usually only comes around when someone has spent a large duration of the game being dumb, not something you say when one person makes a dumb vote on you without doing anything else.In post 173, kraska77 wrote:yume's vote annoyed me a little tho because her reason for scumreading me was so dumb.
why do you not consider "make a hard push on someone" to be something that would give off a good impression? if anything, I would think doing so would be an excellent way to appear town early and get people to think that you have a scum read that you genuinely believe in (as you seem to be thinking here).In post 173, kraska77 wrote:the way i approach games is try to get a feel of players and then as soon as someone pinges me scum, i start focusing on them. lld has done things i deem dumb for scum to do, especially at the beginning of the game when scum try to establish a more solid impression. she is town for me now so i dont care why she's pushing me. rather than engage in pointless exchange with those pushing me, im more interested in pushing those i find scummy.
again, my issue here is more that your reactions to me and LLD were in direct contrast to each other; you picked my posts apart in very fine detail, but seemed to completely not give a fuck about everything LLD was posting. you seem to be interested in walking me through why my read on you is wrong, but aren't doing the same with other people's reads who you are town reading. your focus here is really off and inconsistent, as if you're manufacturing it.In post 173, kraska77 wrote:youre right tho about yume, i guess that looks a bit hypocritical on my part. but i can explain that too. the initial defensiveness yume showed, on it's own, i thought could be fakeable. but then the longer the yume episode went on, the more posts and reactions i found towny from her so i ended up reading her as town. it was gradual-
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pieguyn Survivor
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Aris' response to me is troubling, as "has trouble fabricating viable reads" is one of his primary scum traits. I am interested in seeing what he comes up with after the game has progressed more.
TTH, what is your opinion of kraska?-
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pieguyn Survivor
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you absolutely do not get to pull this over me. my post isn't even that long, and I feel I've clarified what my issue with you is in a fairly concise manner (the key point being that it's more about your approach being inconsistent than how you approached anyone individually, and the fact that your reaction to LLD generally looks really really bad).In post 232, kraska77 wrote:Pie im sorry but that's too many words I can't be bothered to read
I feel like I explained everything so dunno where u getting all these words from
p-edit: I don't agree, though I probably won't argue it. what do you think of what I pointed out re: her reaction to LLD?-
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is there a reason you specifically asked him for a read on me?In post 228, pirate mollie wrote:beeboy read on pie?
do you have reads on either of us?-
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hoi, mollie.
In post 243, pieguyn wrote:
is there a reason you specifically asked him for a read on me?In post 228, pirate mollie wrote:beeboy read on pie?
do you have reads on either of us?-
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I am well aware that those two posts are clearly shitposting. what I take issue with is _why_.In post 253, kraska77 wrote:Those two posts were clearly shitposting. Motivation behind them is shitposting
When i get extra disengaged, i do spoopy red letters in archaic third person too :3
You're not factoring complexity of other people's personalities into your analyses, you're just using yourself as a benchmark to compare me against and that's a fucking linear way of thinking. And you're getting more and more ridiculously detailed about outlining thought processes i never even had. The problem with this is i can't even argue with it or defend myself against because your premises are false
the way I see this, there are two options:
1. you saw LLD vote you in RVS and made 24, which by itself is probably fine (disregarding the fact that I think the post itself was overdone). then you saw LLD confirm her push on you was serious and made 112 anyway, despite the fact that even outside of LLD's push on you, there were serious things going on by that point.
2. you saw LLD vote you in RVS, weren't sure if it was serious, how you should respond to it, whether it'd come across as overdefensive if you asked her for reasoning, but didn't want to outright ignore it, and so decided making 24 would be a good-enough way to appear like you were naturally RVS posting in a way that no one would take issue with. you saw LLD continuing to push you, figured that you did OK enough by reacting to her last post in the way that you did, and continued using the same approach with 112.
I absolutely am factoring motivation into this, and if your best response is "I like to shitpost" then meh. that is really shit for an excuse, and if this is what you're going to say then this will likely be something that factors into my read on you for the rest of the game, honestly - it doesn't mean jack shit if you like to shitpost as town, what matters is that the way you went about it here looked really, really strained and not natural in a way I would usually expect someone to shitpost.
if you don't like it, then argue the point or start doing town things
/shrug-
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is this a kind of thing you usually hunt for, btw?In post 273, TellTaleHeart wrote:
You only used it twice in your two-page ISO in Summer Waltz. You've already used it twice just on this page here.In post 270, Luna Fox wrote:I was actually curious and performed a search of me with tbh but got nothing XD guess search terms were to small
I'm pretty thoroughly creeped out-
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we're lynching kraska today. her last post is such a typical "I need to make it look like this person is 'tunneling' so no one listens to her", and the angle on Skybird is similarly horrible.
how the fuck do people read this as town?-
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Skybird's point on you has nothing to do with you town reading inactive players; her point on you was that you looked like you were attempting to pull up you posting a lot as a reason to cast doubt on mollie's read on you.
it isn't a particularly compelling angle as far as reads on you go, but you pulling up your town reads on LLD/Mala as if they are somehow relevant reads like obfuscation.-
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you pulling up you posting a lot as a reason to cast doubt on mollie's read on you is something you might do regardless of whether or not you use activity as a base for reading other people. the two things are not related.In post 309, kraska77 wrote:Pie
Can u like
Listen to me for 2 minutes
I cannot possibly think quantity of my posts make me townier, when 2 people I have as town have barely posted
Like
Can you see what I'm saying-
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pieguyn Survivor
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Luna, please don't do this. it absolutely is not difficult to use general knowledge of how people play as scum, if you've seen games they were in. I have literally *done this* before as scum. I have seen people like Mala do this as scum (and no surprise she got town read for it and I had to explain why it wasn't a town tell).In post 336, Luna Fox wrote:If you've gone through the trouble of reading summer waltz to figure me out, that gives me a very good feeling that you're town tho.
it isn't a town tell and you shouldn't get caught up in it.-
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why don't you want to vote kraska?In post 338, beegirl wrote:This is just a pile of NAI stuff and Skybird should get more votes pls.
she's being blatantly disingenuous towards me and it's not even difficult to see this is what she's doing. have you read my recent posts about her?-
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being genuine about town reads is a really, really, *really* easy thing to do as scum, and you should really know this. and it isn't like she went out of her way to meta you or anything like that, she just made one observation based off of a game where she had seen you before.In post 342, Luna Fox wrote:She did get an accurate description of my playstyle out of it tho. Doesn't look faked tbh.
so how is it difficult to fake?
do I really have to go and link games where I've seen people take this approach before?-
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I don't think I've ever loved you as much as I do right now.
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what are you trying to say here? that you've seen scum fake it in a more convincing way than kraska, or that the way kraska did it looked more convincing?In post 346, beegirl wrote:I can second that I have seen scum fake this before and it was a lot more convincing...-
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Luna, I'm more than open to the idea of kraska being town if there's a *compelling* reason for it. the thing is, no one has given one, and instead of actually responding to my posts and trying to get me to see why I'm wrong about her, she's just sitting there and claiming "onoez pie is tunneling me!!11!". I have explained this, *in depth*, at least 3 times, and she sits there, doesn't even try to address it, and says I'm "reading too much into nothing".In post 349, Luna Fox wrote:You know what, since apparently all my reads are wrong and all your reads are right you might as well tell me what reads i should have and i shouldn't even bother playing the game! It is hard to explain for me why i get this feeling she's being genuine, and i know, that can easily be faked yada yada yada, but why cant you be the one that's wrong?
P-Edit: Aaand now im even less inclined to vote there with all these votes.
it isn't a town approach. it's a textbook scum approach when you want to make people ignore someone's read on you without actually having to address it (hey Mala, seem familiar)?
if she starts acting town, or if someone can actually give a good argument for her being town, then yes I would reconsider the read. but I'm not going to town read her for something you've *admitted* is easily faked.-
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kraska is more likely to flip scum and her push on Skybird was really bad (independently of that, Skybird is null).In post 359, beegirl wrote:Pie do you have a compelling reason to make me not vote Skybird?
I also think a kraska-scum flip would be really interesting, for a few reasons which I might get into later.-
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can you walk me through your scum read on Skybird again?In post 364, beegirl wrote:Replace Kraska with Skybird and Skybird with Kraska and that is where I am at right now.
I've seen your posts etc., I just want to make sure I'm not missing any of it for completeness's sake.-
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I'm responding to beegirl, but one thing first: I'm taking any hammer as a scum claim given Foxbird's vote was all the way back from fucking _RVS_.
also, if Skybird flips town and kraska is scum, I would be very concerned with Luna.-
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my major issue is, I *really* don't think Skybird's read is as horrible as a lot of people are claiming it is. the major point she was making was that kraska's posts along the lines of e.g. 149 read like she was trying to use her posting a lot as a reason to throw doubt on mollie's read on her. I think it's not a compelling point, yes, but it isn't "horrible" in terms of her thought process. I can easily read this post and see someone thinking that the mention of her activity was off and out of nowhere and hoping to attribute a reason to it, since it kind of is, and "I've posted a lot" is, in fact, an excuse scum like to pull up in order to cast doubt on reads on them.In post 370, beegirl wrote:It was really just her horrible reason for scum reading her counter wagon and not actually voting it that makes me think she is scum. Like Kraska has plenty of content to create a non terrible read.
do I think it's what kraska was doing in that post? not really. but I don't think it's unreasonable at all for someone to interpret it that way and I don't know why so many people think it's so horrible.
I don't take issue with her building up to it with the way that she did, and I don't really take issue with the fact that she didn't vote it immediately, either. I could just as easily see it coming from town who has trouble getting up to speed in games early, or town who is just strict with their votes/wants to probe around a bit first before making an explicit vote.
can you walk me through where I'm going wrong here?-
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pieguyn Survivor
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you and Luna are the people I imagined I'd be able to work with the easiest.In post 388, beegirl wrote:Pie why reach out to me in particular out of the people voting Skybird here?-
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I did try to reach out to both of you, just her response was to basically dismiss me entirely, and I don't see it being productive to focus on that right now. I'm not really in sorting mode when it comes to this, I'm in "dismantle the fuck out of this wagon everything else be damned" mode.In post 391, beegirl wrote:I feel as though your read on Luna is in more of a grey zone which is why I am surprised you are engaging me and not her.-
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I think kraska is scum and I take issue with the way both kraska and Luna are approaching the Skybird read.In post 393, TellTaleHeart wrote:Why?
I don't really want to get into a debate with Luna right at this second, though; I would prefer to wait and see what happens for a bit and then engage her over it if it's still relevant.-
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you did see my 357, correct?
I have no intention of dropping a read because "it could be wrong" and no other reason, and I don't have any idea why you think I would.-
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it's not that you'd be wrong and that's it. there are a few specific things beyond "wrong" about the way you're approaching this that make me squint that I'd take a closer look at if kraska ends up being scum.In post 403, Luna Fox wrote:You being concerned with me if im wrong is what i dont like.
I mostly intend to just give you room for a while and talk about it later if I still don't have any reason to think you're town. it is there, but it's not enough to where I feel it's a good idea to make a point of it if I'm wrong about it.-
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please don't.In post 455, Luna Fox wrote:Well i'm moving Nahdia to strong townread.
In no way was that fakeable.
I... really should probably replace out too... i feel terribad about it-
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the reasoning in 297 wasn't great, but I don't think the way she went about it was malicious. I completely disagree, for one, that her use of "ATE" is indicative of anything; it isn't scummy, yes, but some people just have a tendency to think it is for some reason.In post 472, beegirl wrote:No matter what you tell me I won't be able to get over how terrible 297 was.
Nothing Skybird has posted so far would suggest she thinks the bolded part of your post.
I think if you're interpreting her kraska read differently, you're probably misreading her posts? 296 seems to pretty clearly imply that's what she was going for there, and actually, now that I look at it again, she's correct in 348 about kraska's "you're reading something into nothing" approach which comes from the same mindset of casting doubt on people's scum reads on you.
I think the thing about her being slow/hesitant to vote is a play style thing, and I'm really hoping you can come around on this. I think kraska's 299 is a much more reasonable place than any to go from thinking she *could be* scum to being very sure she *is* scum, since as I've brought up before, it was a really bad post that read more like obfuscation than anything (a point Skybird makes in the post where she voted).
I think you're on the wrong track with this, too. scum usually will not lie about things that are easily fact-checkable like how they play from game to game, since it's a really stupid thing to lie about; all someone has to do is point out that this isn't how they play or meta them and find a game where they played differently and it's obvious they're full of shit. I'm pretty sure I have never seen scum take the approach of "make up facts about my play and rely on the fact that no one can tell whether I'd play like this as town or not", since not only is it a really unorthodox approach, it isn't one that is likely to work at all, precisely *because* no one will have any faith whatsoever in cold meta from that long ago.In post 472, beegirl wrote:Ok so I don't know when self meta has ever been reliable but let's say for a minute it is. I went to check Skybirds games and the last time she rolled town in a game that wasn't a large theme was approximately 9 months ago. She could effectively just say whatever she wants as scum right now about how she would plan on playing as town.-
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that's a part of it, but really, the more I hear people explain their scum reads on Skybird, the more thoroughly unconvinced I am by any of it.In post 476, beegirl wrote:Although I guess we still have 0 progression because the idea was you wanted me to vote Kraska lol.
*if* we were to pick someone outside of {kraska, Skybird}, who would you want to vote? do you have a read on Aris?-
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most of my issues with you are somewhat minor, but they're still noticeable. first off, I thought you poking Luna over her use of "tbh" earlier was unusual; it's a kind of angle that I expect scum to be significantly more likely to push than town, since it usually doesn't mean anything, but it's generally a good-sounding angle that people can look at and think "oh, that's a good catch!". you did it again to me in this post; I'm curious to know what your point here actually (lelel) was.In post 518, TellTaleHeart wrote:"Actually"? I "actually" may or may not be satisfied pending further Skybird responses.
And I'm "actually" pretty annoyed at the nonspecific shade being thrown at me.
I thought your questioning of Skybird earlier was eh and after thinking about it some more it read like scum attempting to soft push a wagon from the sidelines without firmly committing to it. actually, now that I look at it from the top, you've hardly been definitively stating reads in general; outside of Foxbird, it's all been very soft. I don't remember you being this soft with your pushes in FG's game, or any of the other games where I've seen you as town.
while it isn't entirely unreasonable, the angle you were pushing in 511 about "these people aren't town for claiming confirmable roles" makes me wary since it's the kind of approach I would take, and have taken before, as scum if I was worried about people writing them off for it and wanted to preempt this from happening.
I don't really like that your reaction to me pointing this out was to start claiming I was "throwing shade" and to ask UTL why she was reading me as town, either. it wasn't like UTL was the first who town read me; if you were curious about town reads on me, why wait until now to probe around about it?-
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I'm also not OK with you turning the onus back around onto me to provide a "good" reason for town reading Skybird; she doesn't look blindingly town, but I think some things she did have looked kinda town and none of the reasoning for scum reading her has been good or compelling. I liked her 509, for instance, because even though she wasn't specific about it, she zeroed in on one of the things that pinged me about Luna's approach to me.In post 561, TellTaleHeart wrote:You can loudly sigh and mock me when you give a good reason for town reading Skybird's posts.
kraska's posts, on the other hand, are horrible, and the only reason given for town reading her has been "her posts are ~genuine~".
/shrug-
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I don't have any issue with mollie's posts, btw; I see the point about her activity but the way she's going about it doesn't strike me as malicious. I'd like if UTL could point me to something specific about it that she's taking issue with.
"scum find it more difficult to make genuine posts" is one of the greatest misconceptions I've seen in the current site meta, unless you can point out specific things about it that look "genuine" or town.-
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pieguyn Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10493
- Joined: August 23, 2013
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