Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[theomoaner]

Its pretty normal for me to be voted in RVs. Guess what?

I'm hunting scum. RVs are not my style this time.

How are you managing to hunt scum in post 3 with only two playes posted?

VOTE: PMyst

[theomoaner]

...

How are you managing to hunt scum in post 3 with only two playes posted?

Now

this

is juicy stuff for page two.

Let's go over the facts, theomoaner.

Could it perhaps be *GASP*

AN RVS VOTE?!?!?!

@EPM - Jun is an actual newb so his (her?) question about the setup is honest imo, In fact I've only played two newbie games and I do have some questions about this setup too.

Why are you making excuses for Jun?

[theomoaner]

*deletes*

^^Ninja'd

@Mollie - Can we have some logic to go with that question? It might help the rest of understand your "conclusions"

[theomoaner]

And here was me thinking my vote was based on (to paraphrase the wiki on RVS)

humerously

flawed logic. Apparently I was wrong...

That makes me scum then doesn't it? So why are you not voting for me?

[theomoaner]

Let me get this right Eleison. Your plan was to drop a vote on Pmyst, see how people reacted, and then completely ignore the results of your plan, as evidenced by your complete lack of any comment about me and/or Smashbard? In fact you then go on to question Shinori. Not much of a plan then.

Incidentally, My opinion of meta-gaming is that all it does is gets noobs lynched. I certainly learned from my first game so I played my second differently, does that mean I had a different role?. And what about people who are experimenting with different styles of play, so pish to your "analyzing meta".

Also your entire post #79 was a waffle on theory and game mechanics, something you were just complaining about.

[theomoaner]

oh I just realized theomoaner is scummy. ...

Did you just "realize" this or were you told to vote this way by your scumbbudies in your QT?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: EvilPacMan18

It's not like you just noticed my post that yo "just realised" is quite scummy as it features quite prominently in your post 59

This is now a serious vote. You can analyze it anyway you like.

[theomoaner]

I am, of course, aware that you are not voting for me at this point.

[theomoaner]

...engaging in rather 'meh' scumhunting.

Lolz, definitely scum found. Tunneling EPM then jumping to the first available "acceptable because hikari gave us permission to find it acceptable" wagon. Guaranteed scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jun

[theomoaner]

I do know OMGUS is scummy.

Oh, really. Did you miss the part where he jumped wagon from a non-starter to "wagon of the day" on an obvious pretext. Which is Scummiest, OMGUS (in your opinion that is) or wishy-washy opportunistic wagon jumping?

If it was about not vote then there are others not voting yet. That doesn't fit then.
How about 'meh' scumhunting? Really? No honestly? Go on ISO Jun and show me one post that is anything more than 'meh' scumhunting, not to mention some others around here.

I nearly always laugh when someone mentions OMGUS because more often than not the vote is deserved.

Wagon the Scum, people.

Good advice, try and stick to it.

[theomoaner]

...

I thought it was anti town of you not to vote to help people get out of RVS. And while I don't know if you are new or not new, Thor's argument that newbie scum is "willing to bend to demands to be aggressive earlier" stuck with me. My intent was to pressure you to vote and to see if you would feel pressured to vote someone and bend to my demands in order to avert suspicion...

Doesn't wash my friend. The join date is clearly shown for each player (I believe Hiraki made a point of this not long ago) so "don't know if you are new or not" is a blatant lie. If you were trying to "bend a new player to your will" then NJAC would have been a better option, as in he is a non-voting new(ish) player.
Try again.

[theomoaner]

^I'm suspicious of fence sitting.

[theomoaner]

^I'm suspicious of fence sitting.

Sorry, I used the wrong word. After 24 hours and 30 posts the best you have is "keeping an eye on..." is a little light. You either have an opinion on the activity or not, your post was just filler fluff.

@theomoaner:

Jun's temporary pressure vote on evilpacman isn't a scumtell. He did the same thing in my last game.

It's not the vote, It's the backpedaling from the vote, which to non-team scum, like yourself, is full of holes.

[theomoaner]

Oops, (alcohol + football = bad posts) ^ should read "...which to non-team scum

un

like yourself...

[theomoaner]

Oh well, he didn't jump wagon, and made up blatant lies to attempt to justify it, must just be me then.

Why have you taken it upon yourself to defend him?

P-edit

I wasn't talking about

votes

I was talking about

opinions

. I have expressed many (either right or wrong, but still expressed) you haven't other than... well what exactly?

[theomoaner]

And... why was it

SO

imprtant for EPM to vote as opposed to say PMyst?

[theomoaner]

@Telo: As you are a "reasonably" new player, by fence sitting I am referring to the fact that in one post you name four people as "might be because they are doing something I don't like" scum. You really at this point (and again this is my opinion) need to be sitting on one target and trying to pressure them instead of just... doing nothing after a days abscence. Read the game, opine on the posts since your last one.

[theomoaner]

...I hope it wasn't sarcasm.

Irrelevant because Thurhame couldn't handle playing as scum, but, It was.

Pirate: Your not a new player here->

hi guys!
new to the board not new to mafia.
...

But you are here->

I am new, telo is new (saw her in intros) and jun kind of reads as fairly new...

Even to the point of considering yourself low hanging fruit. You couldn't possibly be trying to hide something behind a facade of assumed newbyness could you. Especially when you consider the disscusion of theory, such as here-> post 214

@PMyst: Please either post something worthwhile or ask for a replacement.

@theomoaner: How many and what games have you played on this site before? I want links to all.

You're bossy aren't you?

"In post 208, Eleison"

So you took a vote off your top scum candidate to place it on a person lower down your list? --- Of course I'm only bringing this up to make it look like I'm try cover-up my "active ignorance" of posts that hiraki found scummy (for whatever reason), and is trying to add to his so-called "case" against me.
For case substitute tunnel-vision.

[theomoaner]

Why do you think scum has daychat?

I assume you are referring to this

Did you just "realize" this or were you told to vote this way by your scumbbudies in your QT?

Because of this

All role pm's are out. This means day one starts right now. Everybody knows the roles (since they are normal) so there's no need to confirm to me that you understand them.

As with all myko games, if you had nighttalk you'll get a couple of days to get to know each other.

@MOD: Apologies but I may be unable to post until Monday A.M. (GMT), so please consider me V/LA until then. I will try to post later today or Saturday evening, but it is unlikely.

[theomoaner]

Got a little internet time. So what happened

Jun posted this...

"In post 300, Jun"

These reads are rubbish Jun.

You have cleared NJAC and Thurhame on the basis of meta from 1 game played with them, how can you do this without having seen them play scum? How do you know there is a difference between their scum play and their town play?

And more than this how can you possibly have Thurhame as town from 11 posts, none of which contain anything resembling scum hunting (but I suppose you count jumping on my "wagon" as scumhunting)? Pretty much the same can be said for Mcstab. Pirate is scummier than a pond full of algae and you have her as town too?
PMyst = scum for lurking, if you place so much on meta from newb 1296, then take a glance at his meta, most games start with a strong desire to lynch him because he is a lurker extraordinaire. (he tries to play in too many and ends up "playing" in none because he can't keep up). This is just a lazy pretense at scumhunting.

And Pirate contradicted herself .... again.

...
themoaner - didn't like how he tried to reframe my low hanging fruit thing I had going on with smash.

I am not trying to paint myself as a newb

if anything my confidence is probably off putting to some people.

I am a newb

to the site not new to mafia, but I still consider myself low hanging fruit since this is my first game on here and there is no meta. hiraki also made a good case for him making a RVP into a scumtell. I could get on board with his lynch...

No, not the bold bits, the bits starting at "...made a good case for him making..."

And yet you then go on to make this observation about RVS votes.

okay you made a joke but your vote was sincere but you couldn't be bothered to distinguish between the 2 on a site

where most people's first post and first vote is typically treated as a joke/getting to know you vote?

cos that sounds squiffy. and you haven't stated as to why you found mcstab scummy in the first place nor why you still wanted his lynch in almost 150 posts later.

So, you accept the case that an RVS vote is often a joke... unless a good fake case can be made from it?

[theomoaner]

I am not understanding the contradiction here. where did I talk about fake cases.

You didn't. You think hikari's "case" based on my RVS vote is a good one, "...on a site where most people's first post and first vote is typically treated as a joke/getting to know you vote..". You have to admit it is a little bit contradictory isn't it?

Anyway, on with the show. The more I look at you Mollie the more scummy behavior I see.

....
let's cut through the chaff.

as far I know I am the only one who brought up the low hanging fruit argument and that was not to defend myself but to say that I think it is scummy to do that and that it is also just good scum strategy to go after the people you think are the easiest to lynch and on d1 newer people tend to attract more attention. I have had to pull people off the newbs and more often than not the ones who lean the hardest and make them meltdown and out their role are usally scum so yes, I see it a scum special hunting tactic. my method of scum hunting is to point out scummy behaviour.

So what exactly was this all about.

eta: I think newbs in this setting

should

be gone after but not for reasons like your gut is telling you that someone is bad or you don't like a playstyle. go after someone you find objectively scummy.

Not to mention this

Who do you think is scum Mollie?

maenara and strangely telo come to mind. I don't like the way that eleison keeps shutting down the convo but I think it is an inexperienced player who will play more like an indie than to know how to cooperate with town.

thurhame stands out by his

not standing out

.

you thinking triangulation was not a good idea clanged.

are you still on with the PM lynch. to be honest I would like to hear as to why they have a bad rep.

You name what amounts to a list of the newest players in the game here in your scummiest target list. Yet here we have a completely different list, and interestingly, two of the players on your original list haven't posted since. So just why are Telo and Thurhame not not scum anymore?

[theomoaner]

EBWOP
^...here we have a completely different list in post 325

[theomoaner]

And to everyone getting mad at me for saying NJAC and Thurhame are town after only playing 1 game with them: They are being consistent with their town style play which I have seen so they can be town for now. I'd rather get rid of the people I think are scummy or am unsure about before voting for them. Does that make sense?

You have avoided my question to you, so I'll repeat it. How do you know they are not being consistent with their scum style of play?

[theomoaner]

...I think going after newbs is a scumtell but I do not think that everyone who does it is scummy, town does it a lot.
...

A scumtell that town does a lot?!?!?!?!?

WTF.

UNVOTE: Jun Can wait until tomorrow.
VOTE: Pirate Mollie

[theomoaner]

Since nobody else feels it's important, I'd like to point out that Pirate Mollie is at L-2.

Why is this important Smashbard?

For all of those needing to re-read before committing to anything, I'll sum up my case against Mollie in as few sentences as possible, just so you know what you are looking for.

Lots of self contradictions, such as this...

newb mistakes
...

...I am not trying to paint myself as a newb if anything my confidence is probably off putting to some people...

Why does a town player need to change their position/views or anything to the point where they have to contradict themselves?
The total kicker comes here though. I'll re emphasize it just to make it clear.

You name what amounts to a list of the newest players in the game here in your scummiest target list. Yet here we have a completely different list, and interestingly, two of the players on your original list haven't posted since. So just why are Telo and Thurhame not not scum anymore?

in post #241 I am clearly stating my approach to the game which is that I am starting from whom I think is town and work from there.

the people that I mentioned are not in my town pile so yes I want some engagment with them so I can get a read.

also I think it is just good town play to look at the people who are not as active and are not asking to be subbed out cos you will often find scum there.

not sure what problem you are with this except that you seem to think that if I say newbs are low hanging fruit and then I soft fos a newb is a contradiction, when it isn't since I am not directly going after them, I am SOFT FOSSING THEM.

when I read posts I look for the motivation behind the posts (scum or town) and to see if it is consistent with the flow of the game.

(emphasis added)

I was mostly interested in why two players, who had not posted since Mollie had them as scum targets, were no longer scum targets. They haven't done anything to clear themselves after all, because they haven't posted (in case you missed that bit). This is either lazy scum hunting or fake scum hunting. Go on read it.

"...the people that I mentioned are not in my town pile so yes I want some engagment with them so I can get a read."

They haven't posted so why did she not still want to "engage" them? If that is the case then why have they gone from her "soft fossing" (whatever that is) or scum list?

Next is this...

"I think going after newbs is a scumtell but I do not think that everyone who does it is scummy, town does it a lot."

This is nonsense with added vitamins. What it says to me is... "I'm not scum for going after newbs but anyone else who does is scum". It's just a massive self contradictory cop out, and is either only there because
1. Mollie is scum and is trying to backtrack on a fake scum hunt list. We obviously nedd to lynch
2. Mollie has been using "I'm a newb, stop picking on me" as smashbard pointed out, and the serious question then becomes why?

Sorry, that ended up being longer than I thought it would.

[theomoaner]

^Oooops!, just reading back through that and realised I used cut and paste instead of copy and paste. Please look at the original post 336 to see how it should have read

[theomoaner]

@Jun: I think everyone on the site is always down for a PMyst lynch. This time I think he might have site flaked though.

[theomoaner]

They haven't posted so why did she not still want to "engage" them? If that is the case then why have they gone from her "soft fossing" (whatever that is) or scum list?

But this part confuses me. You either are mischaracterizing the post you are quoting or you made a typo somewhere. Because here you are asking why Pirate Mollie would not want to engage Telo & Thurhame, when Pirate Mollie explicitly says that she would like to engage Telo & Thurhame to get a read. So I'm going to need some clarification here as to the kind of point you are trying to make.

I am refering to the fact that Telo and Thurhame no longer appeared on Mollie's scum read list in #325 but as they have not posted, what exactly have they done to be removed? If her reason for them being there in #232 was because she "wanted to engage with them", then she hasn't done so by post #325 because they haven't been posting. Logically they should still be on her list, or she should have a good reason for not being interested in them at that point, and she should be able to articulate that reason.

Hope this clarifies what I meant.

[theomoaner]

Argghhh! Multi-post failure day.

Do I really have to explain? I mean, I think it would be obvious. If you put someone close to a lynch it's only pro-town to let people know...

That is what this is for - post 367

[theomoaner]

- The most town-leaning point for me is that Mollie and I have had some overlap in other scum suspicions...

This is really poor reasoning, agreeing with someone is the worst possible reason for clearing them. Scum will target anyone who they can get a wagon going on, and for that they are going to look for "reasonable" overlaps and common targets.

She is too sure there are 3 scum when she has the experience to not assume as such; She knows how many scum there are ie 3 at least in the main pack.

Yes, I was going to be looking at this one too, but with reference to this.

Once I'm done with theo, your buddy, you're next. Then Pirate and then Russian Roulette.

Everyone loves games, so let's play that one after the hard work is done.

Same thing.

[theomoaner]

holy cow, the moaner, your whole case in post #379 falls apart when you take what you cherry picked and apply it context with what I said. "new to the site not new to mafia". this isn't the first time you have done this it is why I find you scummy. mischarecterisation and misdirection is the #1 tool of scum.

Really? I suppose I may have a different interpretation of what you meant than what you intended, explaining yourself better than the "I am not painting myself as a newb .... I am a newb" post would help.

I explicitly said that I was scumhunting from who I thought was in my town pile out, telo and thurhame were on the periphereal. your weird fixation and persistent reframing of this looks scummy.

Wrong. I'm specificaly referring to your two posts #232 which is a direct answer to a question from Slandaar. No explicit "these are the scum who are in my town pool".

Who do you think is scum Mollie?

maenara and strangely telo come to mind. I don't like the way that eleison keeps shutting down the convo but I think it is an inexperienced player who will play more like an indie than to know how to cooperate with town.

thurhame stands out by his

not standing out

.

you thinking triangulation was not a good idea clanged.

are you still on with the PM lynch. to be honest I would like to hear as to why they have a bad rep.

And post 325, which also makes no such explicit claim, unless I missed it of course. You have now gone from contradiction to blatant lying.

@ smash

Because you cannot say going after newbs is a scumtell is town does it a lot

. A scumtell by definition, tells you this is something scum will do, and you use it as a tool to out scum when they do it.

you most certainly can cos town will drop a lot of objective scum tells too. I have met very few players who play a super clean game. scum will go after low hanging fruit but so will xenophobic town. the 2 are scummy but the motivations behind the 2 will be different. scum tend to do it more often the reason they do it is consistent with their win condition (try to get town to lynch town) so that is why it is objectively scummy.

Oh dear. Yes town can drop scumtells, how else could mislynches happen? but a scumtell is specifically something that scum are

much

more likely to do than town, not something that scum and town do in roughly equal measures. Otherwise what use is it for finding scum?

more moaner stuff:

This is really poor reasoning, agreeing with someone is the worst possible reason for clearing them. Scum will target anyone who they can get a wagon going on, and for that they are going to look for "reasonable" overlaps and common targets.

no it isn't...

Yes it is, this is one reason why buddying is generally frowned on, an it can also be classed as sheeping, which shows a lack of attempting to scum hunt.

[theomoaner]

The emphasis was on

MUCH

(that's why it was in larger letters), as in town don't do it a lot. Again otherwise how is it a scum tell?

but that was a minor point in my last post. The main one being, why have you lied? I'm sure you have some theory as to why lying isn't scummy, or maybe you didn't lie? Care to tell us?

[theomoaner]

That's not to say I'm going to put my vote on any of them in an attempt to "pressure" them into posting more.

Never works.

@MOD: Can we have prods on Maenara, Shinori, PMysterious and McStab please.

Sometimes works.

[theomoaner]

I had Thurhame pegged as scum when he was in that slot, but he may have just been a bad player (or too busy like he said, stranger things have happened).

[theomoaner]

@Maenara: We waited 2.5 days for those comments? Please do better.

Numberguy could easily be scum.

Hrm

what part of sticking to the plan doesn't fit well with you?

Was that meant to be a reaction fishing post? or are you just trying to frame Salandaar when you flip scum?

Guys, Thurhame is town. Believe me. We have bigger fish to fry at the moment. Like mollie and PMysterious.

Why are we to believe you? Also, it would be nice if you were to present some sort of case on these "bigger fish" that we need to "fry".


Why are we still on day 1? We have a confirmed liar in the town (Mollie was logged on earlier but declined to comment on my accusation of blatant lying) and we have not lynched. I know it's good and town-like to be cautious but you can take it too far.

P-edit: @Lottery-Number-Dude: I can live with that. I still think your slot is scummy though.

[theomoaner]

Blah, Blah, Blah

Have you got a VI post restriction? It's the only reason I can think of for what amounts to possibly the worst ever misapplication of OMGUS. I mean we are not even voting for each other for a start.

wrt the bold: I answered you in post #393. who is blatantly lying now.

Oh you did, my mistake, no wait a minute.

Oh dear. Yes town can drop scumtells, how else could mislynches happen?

but a scumtell is specifically something that scum are much more likely to do than town, not something that scum and town do in roughly equal measures

. Otherwise what use is it for finding scum?

that is what I said.

you most certainly can cos town will drop a lot of objective scum tells too. I have met very few players who play a super clean game. scum will go after low hanging fruit but so will xenophobic town. the 2 are scummy but the motivations behind the 2 will be different.

scum tend to do it more often

the reason they do it is consistent with their win condition (try to get town to lynch town) so that is why it is objectively scummy.

hth

I explicitly said that I was scumhunting from who I thought was in my town pile out, telo and thurhame were on the periphereal. your weird fixation and persistent reframing of this looks scummy.

Wrong. I'm specificaly referring to your two posts #232 which is a direct answer to a question from Slandaar. No explicit "these are the scum who are in my town pool".

You didn't did you? This was my accusation of blatant lying in post #392, which you declined to comment on.

[theomoaner]

And post 325, which also makes no such explicit claim, unless I missed it of course. You have now gone from contradiction to blatant lying.

Doh!, This is where I accuse you of blantant lying which you delined to comment on Mollie.

[theomoaner]

OMGUS

@Hikari: You lost any right to tell me what I should or shouldn't call you when you decided to call everyone "twats".

@Mollie: It would be helpful if you could quote where you

"clearly stated that is what I was working from"

.

[theomoaner]

Likewise.

What "attacks" are these? So far all you have done is try to leverage a case out of one post and..... Well nothing really.
If you feel like I'm ignoring you it's because I am.

Dividizzle: An NJAC lynch is pointless because there is not enough from him to try to make a reasonable case out of.

[theomoaner]

^He was looking like one off the few in this game who was actually trying to scum hunt, which gave me a townish vibe but he's kind of faded. From what I've seen so far I'd put him as town, but I'd like to see more from him.

[theomoaner]

! I finds a scum!

10 points for you.

I think that counts as a reasonable case, especially as the lottery-dude slot already looked scummy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: 10506670

Smashie, this was a weird thing to say...

The problem I'm running into with with is that we'll never get guys like Hiraki, Theo, Mollie, Slandaar and Numbers (the guy with numbers for a name) to come together to agree on anything...

As we were all voting for Mollie (except Mollie of course).

[theomoaner]

To do a scumslip, one must be scum.

QFT

IMHO Jun is not voting for losobbto because he is newby-scum and hasn't learnt that sometimes you need to bus your own team to gain town cred. If number-dude flips scum then It's almost a certainty that Jun will flip scum too.

@Telo: Why is PMyst's lurking worse than, say, NJAC's

Sorry about the absence, really need to reread the thread and some ISO's. I agree with the last post of dividizzle. Don't see the need to quicklynch Mollie. Of course

I'll read her ISO and come with a read on her,

but it's pro-town to think things and use our votes wisely, so if someone else is going to jump on that wagon, they better think it twice and reread before voting, even more considering some players have not posted enough (I'm one of them I know) or are going to be replaced.

This was also a promise that never materialised, so why PMyst over NJAC?

@PMyst: Please stop prod dodging. You do realise that you have a lower post count than Thurhame who replaced out over a week ago, don't you. If you are not that committed to this game then

PLEASE

give your slot up to someone who is interested. Thank you.

[theomoaner]

@Mollie: I missed this bit on my initial read through, it explains much

okay. I have been nightkilled in another game cos the SK is retarded but it has moved me into hyperdrive about this game.

I am about to do a 180 on some of my reads maybe that will liven things up.

Apologies for calling you a liar.

I still think you are team scum though.

Move along, nothing to see here.

[theomoaner]

@Telo: There is an inherent problem with the whole "lynch the lurker" argument, and that is that it is as easy for town to lurk as it is for scum. Simply lynching people for not posting is an easy way for scum to coast to a victory, it gives them easy targets with no danger of exposing themselves in trying to manufacture evidence. Mods tend to have a mechanism to remove excessively lurky players from the game, often 3 prods and your out.

I too would not have a problem with a lynch on PMyst, he's just a terribad player, but I would only realistically enter into a policy lynch if we were approaching the deadline with no consensus on a probable scum lynch, and as day 1 prob-scum lynches go, numberguy is a good one, especially when you include Thurhame's play.

Now are you going to answer my question, Why PMyst and not NJAC?

[theomoaner]

I have a very simple solution to that problem. If you're town - don't lurk.

Good luck with getting that into effect, you could start a campaign.

It sounds like what you're saying is that people who don't post will be safe from votes. I think that's part of the problem.

It is.

That makes three of us maybe more yet he only has one vote. I don't get it.

Other people are scummy, PMyst is just lurking, I'd rather lynch scum, and deal with PMyst if and when we don't have better targets. Actually I'd rather PMyst and the other lurkers be force replaced so we don't have to waste a lynches on them but that's up to Mykonian.

I already did.

You didn't, I asked the question in #480, you haven't addressed it yet.

[theomoaner]

OK see you in three days then. Or you could try reading my post properly and try to understand what I am saying. Lurking is a shit way of playing this game, but some people do it and voting for them just makes the game easier for the scum to win. Sure we COULD just vote out PMyst, NJAC, Eleison, Dividizzle, EPM and Maenara, easily, but if they are all town? then we have reduced the game to a scum win, because with NK's that's 12 townies dead, IE all of us. So

PLEASE

stop getting hung up on lurkers and start scum hunting. I bet team scum are roflyssting at this crap.

[theomoaner]

And

please

answer my question in #480.

[theomoaner]

Game seems to have stalled, not much to comment on over the last RL day so hopefully someone will find something to comment on here.

Who I wouldn't have a problem with lynching today.

Numerical-guy

. Obvious scumslip that didn't look accidental to me, his defense from it doesn't make much sense because I don't see how Slandaar was implying what he claimed. When he was Thurhame his play was non-committal no scum hunting jumping on wagons with no logic behind. followed by replacing out at the slightest pressure.

Mollie

. Stream-of-consciousness waffle or lots of tells, you decide.

Jun

. Has done little but try to clear losobbto (when he was Thurhame) and NJAC on the basis of their newbie game.

I think we are definitely going to find scum in these three. The rest of my scumlist can wait for game tomorrow.

p-edit, wow while I was typing this everyone showed up and posted.

[theomoaner]

@Mollie (and anyone else who thinks Numberguy didn't scumslip): What did you think of Thurhame's play (without referring to newb 1269)?

[theomoaner]

The thing that is really baking my noodle here is that in the games I have played on this site I have hardly seen mention of the term scumslip, yet in Number-dude's two games on this site there is much disscusion of the term. I'm trying to decide whether this is why he doesn't understand the term, or whether it was clear from the references in the newbie game's as to it's meaning.
I think in one of his newbie games (1244) the meaning of "scumslip" is made

very

apparent, so I don't see how he would really have a different meaning from everyone else.

Oh no, I just did meta

[theomoaner]

@Mollie: to quote or link would be a serious TL;DR, just view his topics and search for scumtell and scumslip.
[opinion] Both are used sufficently for any reasonably intelligent person to realise that there is a difference, and what that difference is [/opinion]

I don't get what you mean by Thurhame being a "safe" player.

[theomoaner]

Do I actually have to read through these newbie games...

Some people, they want the moon on a stick....

From Newb 1244, I think the context here is easily understood to mean only scum can scumslip.

Hey y'all. I'm Gliffie, arriving a bit late to the party. It'll be fun playing with you all

Johnny are you trying to say you would play the same as town as you do as scum? Or is this a possible scumslip here?

phdjnkrnfkernk. I absolutely

hate

it when people say shit like "possible scumslip?". The whole logic is pants on head retarded. Scum are the most cautious players in the game (along with the doc), so why on earth would they slip up? Yeah, it might happen, especially here in newbie games (just look at <numbers>), but more often than not it's just some scrub-a-bub townie, and I know that feel. To be honest, I feel like scum are more likely to do the whole "ooh, scumslip??" charade. At least that's how it is in my experience.

And then there is this passage from 1244 which talks about scum tells, again I think from the context its obvious that Thor665 is talking about town who are behaving as scum and so exhibiting tells instead of slips.

Thor, you did lead a few mislynches. (all of them if memory serves.)

I also lead the only correct lynch we had and jailed scum 3 out of 4 times.
So...yeah, good case.

A specific example would be how long you waited to claim. It's

good because it would draw out any scum claims

, and you're teaching the newer players patience and to think for themselves.

But then again, there's obviously a clear scum advantage there

.

So it could be done for either a pro town or pro scum gain - you need to look at it in context at that point and figure out what I was doing it for.
At the core - this is a null tell until you do that.

Another example is

when

you claimed. You kept calling yourself confirmed town and was flaunting it. On the one hand, your Thor. I don't expect anything less. On the other hand, scum would be pretty happy if they were considered confirmed town.

I was confirmed town...so...
And flaunting is a character trait. It clearly isn't a scumtell.

ANOTHER example (that doesn't have to deal with the claim), would be that half the time it seems like you're purposely trying to trip people up by constantly asking loaded questions. Again, I see the IC potential (and the Thor asshole personality), but it could also be used as a way to pin someone as scum.

It could also be taken as scumhunting and trying to force people to think.
Again, it's, at best, a null tell until you look at it in perspective. Was I using it to make people think and to get reads, or was I using it to trip people up and lynch them?

And finally, you pushed the Wray wagon. While you may have actually thought she was scum, I find it hard to believe just because of how incredibly TOWNIE she was. (PEDIT: Damn it Johnny!)

Wray was not incredibly townie in my opinion - and neither was she in the opinion of 2 other town (and, for a while, yourself)
For this to be a scumtell you have to be able to show some sort of evidence that I *did* believe she was incredibly townie....and didn't care.
That would make it very scummy.
Otherwise it's called a difference of opinion (take, for example, me calling Johnny and 2139-048 obv. town - I did so early and did so correctly, and I questioned people who voted them but never used it as a case against anyone...because I understood that just because I saw them as town didn't mean everyone did. Instead I spent time trying to understand *why* people saw them as scum. aka 'scumhunting')

I don't have the time right now to go through 1253 to find the posts, but you should get the idea from these that I think from this game alone Numbers ~should~ understand what everyone else on site means by scumslip.

I'd be happy to return my vote to Mollie as I to think she and Number-guy are both team scum, her comments on thurhame read to me as an attempt at covering for her partner, Thurhame's vote on mollie contained no logic and looked like scum distancing.

I think EPM has flaked, he's posting elsewhere but not here. I don't like the way he tried to stall the Numerical-guy wagon.
I'd happily lynch Telo too, I'm not with the "have a hissy fit if people disagree with me" thing she is doing right now.

[theomoaner]

...

I am new to this site and my hanging back is more of me trying to get used to how you all do things on here and I figured the best way to do that is to watch and observe and not interfere with the process. <------ good town play for someone who is new but it is probably going to take a good town player to figure that out...

You're hanging back and observing?
So why are you trying to introduce concepts to the game, and pressure people into adopting them, to the point of suggesting that only scum wouldn't.

triangulation is when 2 players who have town reads on each other start a dialogue comapring their scum/town piles and bring in another player and form a consensus and then vote as block. they do this in order to control the lynch since town usually moves in herds. it is a very effective strategy since town's main way of eliminating scum is through a lynch.

I have only a played few untimed games so not sure if it would work in this format but I would to try it.

I want to triangulate with slandaar cos he is my strongest town right now, he is cutting through the chaff and I don't think scum would go out of their way to help a newb get out of their very wrong reasoning especially a newb that no one seems to like, lol. if he were scum, I would think that he would just let me get lynched instead of encouraging me to think in a different way.

I want to see if he will work with me and then see if we could bring hikari in since he has a town read on him and I like some of hikari's responses.

triangulation is a good strategy and I have noticed that town wins more games when they do this than not.

[theomoaner]

Yes of course that is all I do Mollie (that was sarcasm in case you couldn't tell).

Do you ever do anything other than contradict yourself and then backpedal like mad?

Like Slandaar says, you have managed to have an opinion about most other things that have happened so far in this game (and meta be damned I'm playing this game, not all those others), so why are you so keen to "hang back and observe" in the case of Numbers?

And do I think that scum would draw attention to themselves? Yes I do, I've seen it many times.

[theomoaner]

Mollie, any sentence that begins "I'm new to this site..." would, IMHO, refer to how you intend to play on the site, not to one specific case which would possibly have started "In the case of Numberguy...". Perhaps you can now understand why I would

possibly

have taken that out of the context you intended.

If quote mining (what ever that is) is such a huge scumtell for you then perhaps you should really be voting for me?

Another interesting thing for me, and I'm not going to use quotes here, is how you asked me to link to the bits of Numberguys newb games where scumslips and scumtells are discussed. I've done this (partially), you haven't commented on them after making an issue of it. Why?

Of course I would now be quoting your earlier statement that thurhame was neutral (not scum, not town, totally neutral) for his posts and how that has suddenly mutated into too many neutral posts pointing to scum, but that would make me scum wouldn't it, because I'd be quoting you out of context, or maybe quote mining or some such.

You are scum Mollie.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pirate Mollie And there my vote stays until one of us is dead.

[theomoaner]

I highly doubt that theo. Mollies fighting against Numbers lynch has really made me rethink Mollies alignment. But if numbers flips town against all odds I would almost guarantee Mollie is town.

I agree Smashie, There is no way a scum Mollie would try to stall a lynch on a town Numbers, It's MS 101 stuff, but I'm seriously doubting we'll get a lynch on either of them with the number of flakers, lurkers and nonsense posters we have in this town.

I've also said that my vote stays there until one of us dies, and as a non-liar my vote stays there making one less for a potential Numbers lynch.

[theomoaner]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

After an attack (or percieved attack) on her, Mollie always asks someone else for their opinion on the attacker(s), if, and only if, the attacker has no votes on them, then as soon as (or shortly after) a vote goes on she joins the wagon. If they already have votes on she'll just vote.

Mollie has never launched a wagon in this game, which is possibly why there's no vote on me or Eleison yet.

The sequence is especially clear here, because of the lack of a vote.

In #153 Smashbard list why he has a vote on Mollie. Then...

lol. so what do you think of smash's scum list hiraki?

Then...

hiraki resorts to emotional manipulation. would like feedback if this is typical of him regardless of alignment.
smash is doing exactly what I expect scum to do: go after low hanging fruit. I would consider this a scum newb mistake for someone who has played a 5 to 10 timed games format. not sure how it matches up within an untimed game tbh.

also where are mcstab and pm.

pacman is engaged, not sure on him yet.

smash is whom I am going for I think.

First she implies that the person who's opinion she has just asked for is scum, and then says "Smash is who I am going for I think"

Not quite given up by #189 but still no one has voted on Smash

I still think smash's list is shit. he might have one but not all 3 and certainly not me.

thanks.

She then fails to mention Smash again until her list in #241, where he is town, (after which she votes NJAC on a "reaction" to a nothing attack on her, but he does have two votes.)

A similar sequence can be seen from #275 onwards with regards to a Shinori vote.

Could be nothing or it could be an attempt at avoiding a commonly accepted scumtell of being first on a wagon.

Btw mollie, just for the sake of accuracy Numbers reached L-3 at maximum, so you would never have been able to hammer.

[theomoaner]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

So am I. Namely, this game isn't going anywhere.

Yes, that as well

There's been a lot of activity already, there honestly has. It hasn't been a full Day 1 yet, but it's gotten a bit of the way. But we're stalling, because this is turning into a quagmire. So we need a target we can all agree on. Not necessarily the most scummy to any given person, but someone we can all agree that we need to remove.

That person is, of course, Shinori.

I don't want to lynch him the most. There are others who I find legitimately scummy. He's not so much one of them. But he is terrible. He has done nothing to move the game forward, what-so-ever, he has tunnelled almost solely on two players, and worst of all? He's said that he doesn't care if we lynch him.

This post just stinks of near deadline panic.
If you find others legitimately scummy, then it would be more use to explain who and your view on why.
We really need to be hitting scum here, rather than voting for those we just don't like. I don't like policy lynches, they rarely hit scum in my experience. I think its also a little early to be thinking of a policy lynch. We still have three or four days to present evidence and try to reach a consensus (although I won't be changing my vote).

I'm gonna hammer the first person to reach L-1 so that I can give myself time to catch up over the night.

You have just gone from the edge of my scum pile to the top.

If I were to vote on the just not liking them principle, I'd vote Telo over Shinori any day. She's contributed little to town, has lots of ever-so-slightly scummy IIoA posts, and followed up with a good dose of histrionics when she has been quizzed over her one big idea (could that be called Telodrama?). I think, at this point, Telo is probably town, but there is enough scumminess there to justify a "long-odds" vote.

Shinori is a player who I believe doesn't know himself why he plays. (I can't discuss why I have this opinion, it relates to an ongoing game.)

[theomoaner]

^ That meant to be addresses to me scumollie?

[theomoaner]

^ *addressed

[theomoaner]

Ok, as you can't be bothered to decoded whether #575 was for me, I'll assume it was, and I'll even answer it.

I have an opinion about everybody.

That good enough for you? I mean it's not like you ever asked me for my opinion on Smash at any time in the game. You're just accusing me of deflecting, why exactly is that?
While we are on the subject of deflecting, not answering questions and the like are you going to answer these one's that I actually asked you, and not just invented as a way of trying to make you look bad.

If quote mining (what ever that is) is such a huge scumtell for you then perhaps you should really be voting for me?

Another interesting thing for me, and I'm not going to use quotes here, is how you asked me to link to the bits of Numberguys newb games where scumslips and scumtells are discussed. I've done this (partially), you haven't commented on them after making an issue of it. Why?

I'll assume #578 is about me too and address that, so that I'm not deflecting.

Hey nice accusation and AtE there scumollie. What is this super-fuck-off-big scumtell "quotemining" all about? I've never heard of it. Can you give me an example of me doing it? Maybe not because, after all, I've hidden it so well that it's in plain sight.

Talk about flailing scum.

[theomoaner]

Smash is null with a lean to town for me. He is one of the few active players posting real content that comes across as genuine scum hunting, and he's sticking with his reads in a realistic way. I don't always agree with his conclusions though, and he occasionally looks a little vote jumpy. I hope I'm right and he isn't scum, if he is I think he would be difficult to catch out.

What else have I noticed? It's hard to come up with anything from most of the players as they haven't really been posting enough, and interacting enough to get much from. but I'm sure that EPM is scum, and I have my suspicions about Dividizzle. A few thing I'm keeping hold of until I've looked at them properly and had chance to test them.
There is too much "well I could vote for.... to move the game along, but I don't think they are scummy" going on in this game. It's clouding the view of who is scummy because it's anti-town behaviour or just settling for policy lynches, and will just lead to a scum victory.

At this point my only reason for not voting for Mollie is that I actually want to

-play-

this game and she's one of the few who are willing to play. I'd rather keep her around and match wits with her than keep someone who's not doing anything but if the town goes her way I'm willing to vote for her.

This is bad Telo, this is a bad reason for not voting for someone if you think they are scum, and if you don't think Mollie is scum then you shouldn't even be suggesting voting for her. Just one question, Do you think team scum would hesitate to lead a lynch/NK you if they thought you were a threat?

I called you a fence sitter earlier, this is the sort of post that totally evinces that view. You are also, with posts like this demonstrating a lack of commitment to playing to your win condition, this is a big no-no, and in many ways is as bad as the lurking you so abhor.

[theomoaner]

Smashie's #614: Gay sea otter gag, classic.

@Telo: Is it my Welsh accent that makes me difficult for you to understand?

[theomoaner]

Mollie, ssssh! your meant to be dead.

@Telo: I was trying to make the point that Mafia will not keep you in the game for any reason, especially not because you are fun to play against, And that if you truly

think

thought Mollie was scum, (as indicated by being willing to vote her), then you should be voting to remove a threat to town which is your win condition, unless you are scum.

[theomoaner]

^

You're

meant to be dead.

[theomoaner]

VOTE: Telo

[theomoaner]

^ This

This is bad Telo, this is a bad reason for not voting for someone if you think they are scum, and if you don't think Mollie is scum then you shouldn't even be suggesting voting for her.

At no point did I ever say that Mollie was scum and at no point did I ever suggest that anyone should vote for her.
...
Hmmm, I wanted to be the hammer vote but this post convinced me to

unvote
Vote: Mollie

Doesn't think Mollie is scum but wants to place the hammer vote?

Telo also, when quizzed on voting for Mollie, by yourself in 614 referenced #461

I've expressed an interest in working with Mollie several times but other than to identify me as an easy target she's ignored me all game.

I hope she hasn't given up because her level of participation provides plenty of game fodder. I'm willing to vote for her for several reasons:
1. If I vote for her she's at L-1. That's sufficient pressure if she wants to live she'll reengage.
2. If she has given up, we gain what information we can from her flip.
3. I don't see my vote on mysterious doing any good.
I will change my vote as soon as I get to a computer and can format.

BUT... when Mollie asked her who her top scum was in 466 5 posts later,

who is standing out to you right now?

I'm still liking Mysterious. He says he'll give out reads after page six and still nothing. I placed my vote on him and all I got was "I'm still here" in response.

That's not good enough for me. I'd much rather leave my vote on him than move it to you but I don't think my lone vote is enough pressure.
For now I'm going to stick with my reads as well. My vote will remain on Mysterious and I'll keep watching your wagon for developments.

It's all a little fence-sitty, wish-washy, and more than a tad scummy. Perhaps this is why we saw

ZERO

contribution to scumhunting from her on day 1.

[theomoaner]

^That was an answer to smashbards #639, the maenara posts got in the way.

[theomoaner]

I genuinely believed Mollie to be scum, and as such your willingness to vote on her came across as team scum scum unwilling to bus a team mate. That on top of the other reasons I have for finding you scummy, leads me to vote for you.

I never had reservations about Mollie voting for herself, it just added to the overall effect of her being team mafia as self voting is widely regarded as a scum tell. Your view that I had this opinion comes from your continuing failure to understand a word I say. In fact your entire FoS comes from such a (feigned?) misunderstanding of what I was trying to say.

[theomoaner]

Oh no, you found me out, I must be scum because only scum would make a typo right? (Sarcasm btw)

Was meant to read
...as such your "willingness" to vote on her came across as team scum unwilling to bus a team mate...

[theomoaner]

*sigh* how obtuse.

Anyway, Shinori.

Elieson
Mcstab player slot (Forgot who subbed in)
And pirate Mollie.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Pirate Mollie.

Die.

...

Also I didn't know I was hammering MAH B.

You might wanna go back and look at shit also, after I voted someone else did and they had the intent to hammer.

I recommend looking for the players who DEFENDED mollie. I'm willing to bet they were scum trying to gain town cred.

If you didn't know you were hammering why add

Die.

after your vote?

[theomoaner]

Hate to be a pain but..

@MOD: Does Pirate Mollie get a vote from beyond the grave?

[theomoaner]

I'm not big on the whole swearing thing but... for fucks sake.

[theomoaner]

Guys, by getting into an argument with Telo you're just feeding her excuses to post null content, that's partly what I was experimenting with earlier D2.

I'll be coming back to Telo when she has had another 20 pages or so of doing nothing, at which point it's obvious she is prob-scum trying to skate through the game, or when I see some reasonable content that's worth commenting on, for example her analysis of the information we received from Mollie's lynch, it was, after all, the reason Telo was willing to vote for Mollie.

Let's be real though, this isn't the best player list.

This means we shouldn't bother right? Perhaps it means we should try harder? Good content won't magically appear, it needs to be added by the players, such as yourself.
If you're not going to put any effort in guys (I'm talking to the lower post count people here) then please let me know now so I can stop wasting effort on a lost cause and go and join, and concentrate on, a game that has players who want to participate. I can easily see this game becoming a series of useless policy lynches.

Shinori, not sure I believe you, but it's feasible, so I'll hold of voting for now.

[theomoaner]

Get off your high horse and answer the perfectly legitimate questions that have been posed.

Forget it, I asked a question D1, Here is the answer I got...

Now are you going to answer my question, Why PMyst and not NJAC?

I already did.

[theomoaner]

@Mykonian:

Pirate Mollie has still been lynched^ unless I missed something

Why are we supposed to be lynching Shinori again, I'm not really getting the case against him beyond policy lynch, and if we are doing that I'd suggest Jun as a better candidate.

P-Edit, Ninja'd, Preferably someone other than Eleison for the summary.

[theomoaner]

Because he's lurking scum?

[theomoaner]

[offtopic]
@Telo (if you are still reading this that is). If you found Smashbard's sentence about you, that contained swear words, offensive enough for you to rage-flake this game then please make sure you consider carefully whether you should continue playing on this site. I can assure you that that would be considered a pleasant greeting for some of the players here, abuse can be, and often is, far, far worse than this (I could link some for you if you like). I'm not saying its right but it's true, It's a competitive game, tempers are going to flare.
[/offtopic]

Same goes for anyone why hadn't actually voted for him yet. Primarily, Jun and Theo. I'd really like a concise explanation as to why you are voting for others over obvscum.

Because scum distancing is evident

I'd still like an explanation of what the case is, but seeing as how you ask. I'm not going to join a wagon that is based on...
1. Your cross site bitch-slapping contest with Shinori.
2. Lots of sheeping by people who haven't caught up with the game.
3. Shinori being a scapegoat for the inactives.

And.

4. I don't see Shinori as obvscum.
5. I don't see his policy-lynch is any more valid than a number of others.

How exactly is distancing evident from not voting on a weak case? My understanding of distancing is that it is usually done by bussing, pointing out flaws in, or otherwise attacking your own team. The only way that you could consider me to be distancing is if you think (or know) that Shinori is town and that I am distancing myself from a mislynch.

I'm not liking the way you are trying to push this lynch and try to chain further lynches to it.
Mmmmmm, Slandaar pointed at you at one point, and you were the only one to try to analyse the NK, which you missed his suspicion of you out of. Interesting.

@Maenara: I'm only bitching because there's nothing else to post about.

And...
As Telo has apparently left us...
UNVOTE: Telo

[theomoaner]

Do you guys always /ignore me or something...?

I'm not ignoring you, you've just not said anything worth commenting on yet.

Everybody whos not in favor of a Shinori lynch needs to give a convincing case as to who is better. Telo, I'm only so hard on you because you have the most potentiol to be a protown player and it frustrates me to see you waste it by doing nothing.

The case against Shinori is non-existent, that is, I guess, why no-one has provided a summary for me. So I don't know why you are asking for a convincing case, It doesn't look like one is needed to get a lynch in this town.

Anyway.
If it's a policy lynch Dividizzle, NJAC and Maenara are as, if not more, anti-town/useless as Shinori. EPM would have been on that list if he hadn't replaced out too. Jun doesn't seem to know what is going on half the time, and as an added bonus if Jun flips scum (I suspect he might) than Hiraki becomes prob-scum too.

If its a probscum lynch.
Jun, looks possible. Early voting looked opportunistic, with poor reasoning for jumps between wagons.
The Telo Slot, zero contribution day 1, bad defensiveness based on semantics, possible attempt at buying town cred by stance on Mollie vote and claim she was bullied into it.
Eleison, Don't like the way he's pushing the Shinori lynch on "don't like him" reasoning.
Numbers, scumslip(?) Thurhames play, no scumhunting, opportunistic voting, possible newbscum flake.

[theomoaner]

Maybe someone else can point out to me where this scumhunting from Shinori is?

If it is hidden among his constant self-defense posts, like the other generico logic posts he claims to be making, then I'm not impressed.

How about his using meta as a "firm" basis for half of his arguments? Or mcstab subbing as his other?

His hammer on Mollie did happen, and whether that in itself is scummy or not, a quick iso shows OMGUS from him directed at Mollie for voting him, and Shinori jumping down her throat for posting her top 3 was bigger than expected.

If he was alone in all this I'd be voting for him. IMHO he's done nothing in this game so far because he's been tunneling you, and to a (slightly) lesser extent the same can be said of you against him.

Your first two sentences apply equally to Telo, the next to Jun and Thurhame/Numbers. That is all that these three have done, Shinori has at least been attempting to make a case against you and/or the Mcstab/Buldermar slot.

I think you are so far into a tunnel now that even if Shinori came up with Smashey's gay sea otter case that revealed all team scum you would still want him lynched.

This is one reason why I asked that someone other than you presented a summary of the Shinori case.

[theomoaner]

Bouncing back to Theo, no one bothered to stand up and explain a case that I summarized in my first day2 post.

Yeah, but that's why I wanted someone else to summarise, because I wanted to see if it was a sheep wagon or if anyone else had any different reasons, but apparently they don't. If your reasons were unique to Shinori (they are not, thus it's a weak case) then I would be on that wagon. I think in this game everyone (including myself) is guilty to a greater or lesser extent, of one or all, of iffy logic, tunneling and anti-town behaviour. Trying for a lynch for these reasons, in a game that is going like this one, just ends up looking like a personal vendetta.

Smashie, go on, I'll bite. You either have a clue or not, you posted twice but the game didn't change, well not that I noticed.

[theomoaner]

...just ends up looking like a personal vendetta, or a scum attempt to push a lynch on a townie.

*finish your sentences Theo*

P-Edit, I am

[theomoaner]

An SK is a bit of a stretch with only one night kill, a one shot vig is a more likely prospect for a third party, unless you hypothesise a doc/roleblocker who got lucky night 1.

Interestinggly that's three people who have now suggested a three man scum team, though one of them has flipped town.

I'll buy the mason claim for now, though I can see a situation in which two of team scum might try to make a safeclaim for themselves.

Sorry guys, really busy right now, will try to post properly tonight.

[theomoaner]

I'm here, just reading. Unlike you apparently, My post count for day two is almost as high as NJAC's and Dividizzle's for the entire game. Non-existent?

try reading the bit where I said I was busy today (and for the next few days), We haven't all got two days off.

[theomoaner]

I understood, just tired and cranky. Not being defensive, it just p'd me off to have my level of activity questioned in this game.

[theomoaner]

The other interesting thing about Smash's list is what I have just been looking at.

Hiraki has spent most of the game raging away at everyone, for imagined or actual stupidity, but he has mentioned Jun outside of the context of defending him from what others have been saying

ONCE

Wasn't this guy supposed to show up and contribute more by page 6? I want to hear what he will say.

I am regretting a tad bit, after seeing shit like this rather than something actually important, that I gave you a town read.

I also found this interesting.

If Jun is playing this game like a noob and just being an idiot, he can take the win.

This is why I said earlier that I think if Jun flips scum Hiraki is scum too.

I've extended this to the third of my scum list, Telo and, outside the context of defence

ZERO

mentions

However Maenara get the full ethug treatment in #89.

Buldermar has yet to be mentioned in any context.

Make of this what you will. I've not got the time or the patience right now to analyse Jun's interactions with Hiraki (I think there are only two or three, all positive) or Telo and Maenara, etc...

VOTE: Jun

I did, after all, say that I would return to Jun Day 2
I'd also happily vote Hiraki or Telo, but at this point not Maenara.

#828 Jun thinks Telo is town, because she shared some of his reads. Telo presented

ONE

scum list. Jun was on it. The other two were Pirate Mollie, who Telo Thought was town and PMysterious. So only one read the same and that qualifies her as town?

Jun, You said earlier that you could "buy me as scum", I would like your case against me please.

Time for bed.

P-edit: NJAC, the "masons" are confirmed as communicating outside this thread, not confirmed town (it's most probable they are but...). Don't follow them blindly.

[theomoaner]

Missed this out that I thought was important too.

In post #89 where Hiraki has his little shout at Maenara there is one bit that is a massive standout.

Meanwhile, Eleison, whose only noteable post so far has been blatant breadcrumbing/softclaiming, criticizes the play of everyone else, and then continues to ... ... Do absolutely nothing? Not try to lead by example at all?

I take it back. It was probably an over-reaction on my part.

The usual reaction of town to someone attempting to out a PR on on page 2 of a game would be to jump down their throat (?) but here we have someone, noted for their use of any excuse to rage at another player

praising

another player for highlighting breadcrumbing/softclaiming.

[theomoaner]

I think Shinori is at least top 3. This in conjunction with him displaying extreme anti-town behavior and a flip providing a decent amount of information (e.g. we can eliminate a decent amount of scum-team permutations) makes him the optimal person to lynch in my opinion.

Which scum-team permutations could we eliminate from a Shinori lynch?

While I do see your argument for a Hiraki-Telo-Jun connection given that Hiraki has 'defended' Telo and Jun by calling them inexperienced, Hiraki has done something similar for (thurhame/(now 10506670)). Hirkai also criticized Jun in 168. So, I think that there is some good evidence about connections between players here, but I'm reluctant to draw conclusions until we flip one of the group. I could certainly be persuaded to switch my vote to 10506670 or Telo since I think both of them have been scummy.

Thanks that saved me a job, I was going to continue with this analysis today, it was too much for last night. It was a tough task with all the one liners and side comments that had to picked through.
I disagree with Shinori not being abused with the "Can you say less than nothing" remark (#213). I suppose it depends what you mean by abuse.

Anyway I thought I would finish what I started and look for reference the other way round as it were.

Jun -> Telo, Apart from the one already mentioned there are two other references
#300. Telo in his unsure pile.
#717. "I think Telo is the most pro town person here, and am disappointed that he is replacing out."

What?!?!?!

Jun -> Hiraki

Just did an ISO of this game. I'll reread it non-iso'ed later. For now this will have to do.

My reads (in no particular order):

Town:

Hiraki

– very aggressive, similar to Majiffy (scum) in my Newbie Game who everyone thought was town. His actions seem pro town for now, so I am fine tentatively putting him as town because I think Majiffy’s play was the exception, not the rule, as players such as Thor665 even thought Majiffy was town.
....

Telo

– Like dividizzle, this fellow posts too infrequently for me to get a proper read. Could be lurking scum, could simply be busy. Let’s not forget that this slot posts that he will be able to post after this weekend.

Hikari is

tentative

town and yet from the next mention no action has been taken to solidify that read?

I don't know why you're analyzing the numbers wagon from Day 1 instead of the pirate mollie wagon, but yes, I would agree with "Buldermar, Hiraki, Enigma, Maenara, Dividizzle and Theomoaner are more than likely scummy in your eyes."

Except for whatever reason Buldermar, Hiraki, and Dividizzle got put in my leaning town pile a while ago and I have yet to see anything from them that jumps out at me to change my leaning town read.

My reads aren't solely based on train analysis but more of a larger picture - I guess I picked out people I thought were scummy and realized oh hey this person is also sheeping onto lynches and this doesn't sit right with me.
....

hiraki and dividizzle I think don't post enough for me to develop a read without going back to do an iso which I'll get around to eventually. The thing about them that sticks out the most to me is that nothing about them sticks out to me besides hiraki's obvious attitude problems.

Telo I believe is town for having similar reads to me and not sheeping onto what i thought to be an ill founded train on Shinori. Theomoaner I would buy as scum.

Now this is interesting. Here he says he has put Hiraki in his town pile but two paragraphs later (I edited one out) he doesn't have enough on Hiraki to get a read.

Telo, perhaps unsurprisingly, never mentioned Hiraki

[theomoaner]

Which scum-team permutations could we eliminate from a Shinori lynch?

Also what other information would you hope to gain?

[theomoaner]

I think you're looking for connections that aren't there and you're trying to scrape together weak evidence to get me mislynched. Just my $0.02.

Thank you for your 1.04 rupees. If it's a weak case explain why, don't just say it's a weak case, and stop dodging my question. If you "could buy me as scum", what is your case against me?

[theomoaner]

@Smash, do you really think Telo flaked for being verbally abused?

Do you think that being told to "fucking contribute more than shit" is as abusive as being called a "twat" by Hiraki, which passed by without comment?

Telo's flake looked more like "pressure is starting to build, I'm out of here, what excuse can I use?" to me.
Same as Thurhame.

[theomoaner]

I could maybe accept Maenara as a Vig, SK or other anti-town third party, early game she called on a hypo-vig a couple of times (e.g. #180) and later posited a hypo-SK. Could be breadcrumbing, but it's tenuous at best.
I can't see her as scum at the moment because I can't see her fitting in with the rest of my scum-reads.

[theomoaner]

I realise it may not have been clear buldermar, but these questions were directed at you.

Which scum-team permutations could we eliminate from a Shinori lynch?

Also what other information would you hope to gain?

[theomoaner]

@NJAC: do you think Jun is playing consistently with his town role in you mutual newbie game?

[theomoaner]

I could maybe accept Maenara as a Vig, SK or other anti-town third party.

Would you mind clarifying this phrase? I feel that something is wrong with it. I'd like no one else to comment on this point until theo rephrases.

Not sure what you're getting at here. It was just a thought that occured to me reading back over Maenara that she was referencing third party roles, vig in #180 and #199, and then SK later on in the game. Maybe she is trying to breadcrumb a vig role, or maybe she is trying to breadcrumb an anti-town role like SK or something like Lyncher (and no I don't see any evidence of Maenara being a lyncher), for whatever reason. I don't see it a serious possibility but I do tend to post most of my thoughts on a game, even if they are far fetched.

I can't see [Maenara] as scum at the moment because I can't see her fitting in with the rest of my scum-reads.

So, per 849, your current scum read is Jun, Hiraki and Telo. But in 865, you pointed out a post(89) where Hiraki praised Maenara for calling out a breadcrumb rather than attacking her. Why did you point that out if you didn't think it established a connection between Hiraki and Maenara?

It seems you read that differently than how it read in my head, I meant it in the sense that Hiraki maybe missed the breadcrumbing and was happy to have it pointed out to him. Earlier in the same post he was being

very

abusive to Maenara.

[theomoaner]

Because I think that one has the potential to end the day too early. By all means, I want the pressure to stay on him, too, but he's already been in the spotlight, and there's no way he's gonna succeed in slipping by after this. The same can't be said for Dividizzle.

Why are you so concerned about the day ending early?

[theomoaner]

And I'm having difficulty reconciling this

Because short day = bad for town.

with this

What we need, right now, if this game is to get anywhere, is a lynch. Not just any lynch, of course, but not because anyone is particularly indispensable -

They were both posted the same distance from the deadline. I understood the reasons for calling for a lynch early on day 1 but it is so dissonant from the short=bad view expressed in #942, because even if the discussion is going round in circles it would surely still be bad for town for that to end early instead of using the time available to try to reach more than a policy/compromise lynch, and to gain analysable posts from people.

This then reads as "I want more time to try and push a case on Dividizzle", considering that she has Jun on her scum list and that is a likely alternative wagon, as qwints says, why try to start a new one. At this time I could easily see Maenara as scum with Jun.

I'm not going to switch my vote just yet, we first need clarification of whether Telo's vote stands and I wouldn't want to hammer without allowing Maenara the right to respond.

[theomoaner]

In fact If Telo's vote stands Maenara has been hammered. by Shinori.

[theomoaner]

Oh, wrong again, just went back to check and Shinori was already voting for Maenara. Didn't read that properly, sorry.

^P-edit, Ninja'd

[theomoaner]

I don't think this is something Maenara has been thinking about, but the time not used on day 2 is much more detrimental to town than the time not used on day 1. This is because information (and thus usefulness of posts) accumulates during the game, so we're simply missing out on more by lynching early on day 2 than lynching early on day 1.

I disagree, I think we needed the time more on day 1 than today, because as I said I very much feel that we ended up with what was for many a compromise lynch over a policy lynch and Maenara was looking to hurry that process. Today we have two or three viable wagons, and I feel are we are close to a point of reaching a consensus, and then Maenara is telling us to slow down and introducing a new case for consideration. It looks very much to me like an attempt to muddy the waters, and to break up town reaching a consensus by throwing a new target in at the last minute. If Maenara had been making a case on Dividizzle at any time prior to #919 I might have less of a problem but It's a scum read and case which has appeared out of nowhere.

Also, I don't feel that there is that much more information to be derived from today, without a lynch to resolve some of the various proposed scum teams, and allow us to analyse peoples actions.

If Telo's vote stands I'm going to swear, lots, but that's Mykonian's decision, not mine.

[theomoaner]

Thank you TBM, that's saved me posting a wall of invective.

I don't know why I fall for these things but go on, Maenara, why do you think Buldermar is an SK?
I can't get why you would list Telo (now TBM) as town when earlier she was completely null because you were "expecting absolutely zilch from her" (#880).
Why has NJAC gone from the top of of your scum list to being town?

[theomoaner]

^ What if Maenara flips scum?

[theomoaner]

I'm not sufficiently convinced of the case to hammer, so I'm not going to.

[theomoaner]

Can we please stop using the newb defence in this game.

And I don't know what a normal setup here is like. I've only played one newbie game on this site (the one with NJAC), but I have had experience on another site playing in C9++ or JK++ setups with no role lists provided...

I'm focusing on lynching who I think is scummiest rather than trying to focus on who generates the most information. I'm surprised that you and Hiraki are defending her so much, and that she jumped on the Jun wagon. I also don't like who else was on the wagon. I'll re-read when I get a chance to try and figure this out.

Why were you surprised that Maenara jumped to the Jun wagon?
Can you also please clarify which wagon you are referring to here?

[theomoaner]

We started early then.

I'm in the midst of reconsidering a few things.

The Shinori lynch was stoopid.

Maenara should win a scummie for her WIFOM in first few posts of the day.

[theomoaner]

We'd be at MYLO, we get one more chance if we mislynch today. It's still a bad idea to get there though.

[theomoaner]

Seriously, though, it's freakin' obvious. Don't all it WIFOM just beccause there are multiple possible reasons;

No, I'm calling it WIFOM because you are trying to second guess the reason for the NK with your own, very obvious, biases and logic. Analysis of NK's is virtually always WIFOM

... It's the same kind of kill two nights in a row,

In what way?

and I really doubt the mafia would voluntarily abstain from murdering someone twice.

Why would you even think this?

Now, I have one challenge for y'all: Find out who the hell I'd be with. It wouldn't be Eleison/Smash, because we're already assuming that they're town. NJAC? Naw, campaigning too much for his death earlier on. Jun and Dividizzle? Going too much after them unprovoked. Buldermar? Yeah, that's totally why I'm trying to make people suspicious of his otherwise strongly-pro-town looks. Hiraki? ...that one it could be, I suppose, but I suspect he wouldn't be as happy to bus me were that the case, though who knows. Numbers? Meeh, he hasn't really done much, so who knows? Same with TheButtonmen, who replaced Telo, with whom Qwints insisted I was buddying, so I suppose you'd think that. Theomoaner? Oh, hells no.

This is pure, unadulterated BS. It amounts to "if I were scum I would never bus my teammates or attempt to distance from them, honest guv."

Okay, but still. This requires a scum-team of me and three of {Hiraki, Numbers, TheButtonmen, Theomoaner}. Do you really see that happening?

The possibility had crossed my mind.

... Buldermar, Theomoaner would be my next scum team pick...

Jun, this is the third time I am going ask you to present a case against me if you are so convinced that I am scum, stop ignoring this request, or just admit that you don't have an actual case that would stand up to any scrutiny.

Weak defensive post, do something. Commit.

Defense against what?

I'm Sheeping Maenara and Jun

Stop trying to ascribe motives to the NK, unless you are going to use this to reach a conclusion as to who was responsible, using it to continue an existing case does not count. My opinion is that qwints was the best town player so scum wanted him out of the way. No set-ups, No framing.

VOTE: Enigma

[theomoaner]

^I first read this as "sorry for being mafia"

[theomoaner]

And it looks like your Thurhame read was on target...

You replaced Thurhame and you are only now reaching the conclusion that Jun's read on Thurhame was right?

I don't like Jun's post in #1152 about being cleared by a scum flip of enigma. It seems odd to feel the need to point that out about yourself.

It's safe to say that it doesn't clear Jun, the only thing that clear's him is his own flip or clearance by a confirmed PR. That is what is so weird about #1152.

I'm not so sure that Jun is scum now though, his refusal to vote on Shinori's first wagon when it got close to a lynch buys some town credence, but post's like #1152 then go on to discredit him again. I'm in two minds about Jun right now, mainly because we've near enough run out of mislynch space, and we need to get it right this time.

[theomoaner]

Maenara, I would like you to at least acknowledge these questions, and if possible answer them please.

... It's the same kind of kill two nights in a row,

In what way?

and I really doubt the mafia would voluntarily abstain from murdering someone twice.

Why would you even think this?

I'm not ignoring your Dividizzle case. I'm just trying to sort out my suspicions before moving on to yours. There are probably four scum to find, I have my own ideas about who they are and I need to work through them before moving on.

[theomoaner]

^^ I think PMyst left because he'd signed up to every game on site and couldn't keep up with them all.

[theomoaner]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Maenara

She's either a SK or Scum.

For the first one: Someone apologizing, the death-text being "X was killed". There's no difference between them, and there often is, when it's mafia vs. SK.

It's a completely flavourless game, so why try and force a difference between SK and scum kills from NK scenes? Also why the fascination with the concept of there being an SK in this game?
I can only think of two reasons.
One. Maenara knows there is an SK, and there is only one reason for her to know this.
Two. Maenara is mafia and is aware that scum NK(s) failed due to a roleblocker or doc, thus meaning there is an SK in the game

As for the issue of mafia not abstaining from kills, well, that's just common sense isn't it? My point was, it's probably the same faction which has managed to kill twice in a row, and my money is on both being done by the mafia.

Again, there is an underlying assumption that there is more than one faction in the game with no evidence to the contrary, as yet.

[theomoaner]

Clearly you didn't get it.

Clearly.

[theomoaner]

@Theo: I agree with your comments about night actions. Do you think Mae is scummier than CE?

Yes I do.

Speaking of Maenara and Enigma, I found this strange.

I don't care much about the slip, but I want him dead regardless.

Maenaras case on Enigma is that he is lurkerscum, a case that has not been improved upon other to add that he has been bussing her other scumread Dividizzle, but without having any evidence to back this up. She even makes the point that she doesn't even care about the one potentially scummy thing he has done, which means that she is pushing for

another

policy lynch on a lurker.

She actually made a semi-convincing case on dividizzle but nobody bought it, so instead of trying to improve it she went back to policy lynch on a lurker.

[theomoaner]

Qwint's doesn't come out looking rosey with his swap onto it once it starts gaining momentum but never commenting on it (see his other posts that day / post his vote for Shin).

I'm not getting the relevence of this.

The hell I did. I'm still on Dividizzle, and for good reason...

Really? No Really? but you've not been pushing him, asking questions of him, trying to get him talking, or anything. You've basically been being pissy with others for not joining you on your grand crusade against all things dividizzle, not trying to build on your case in any way.

If you don't want CE lynched how do you propose he dies? At the hands of an SK maybe? It's not like he's going to be NK'd is he, he is on their team according to you.

[theomoaner]

Jun, please start thinking before you post.

Like that is going to happen.

Jun in post Zero there is a link to the relevent set of site rules as to what constitues a normal game. Just in case you missed it it's here again, just for you.
normal

If this isn't IIoA I don't know what is.

[theomoaner]

Thanks for reposting that wall Maenara. It enhanced the readability of the game no end.

Smashbard. WTF is this all about? Then you follow it up with #1230, so, you rant about people not sticking to solid reads and then go on to say your happy with any one of seven lynches.

If I was the kind of person who does such things there would be a "WTF is this shit?" meme picture here.

And Maenara, this was a serious question.

If you don't want CE lynched how do you propose he dies? At the hands of an SK maybe? It's not like he's going to be NK'd is he, he is on their team according to you.

I'd like an answer please.

[theomoaner]

I'm sticking with this lynch until somebody has concrete proof that scum lies elsewhere. If you want to lynch someone else you'll have to do it without me or give me some indisputable proof to think otherwise.

You are now entering the territory of serious heavy duty rolefishing. If

anyone

claims without pressure now

we lose

. It would provide safe claims, easy counterclaims, provide targets to remove any chance of us surviving MYLO (if we reach that stage) and I doubt it would provide us with any meaningful information.
Power roles are only as much use as the people who have them, I'm not going to go any further with that thought as it may end up getting personal.

... I wish Elieson was here.

Like Elieson's scum catching record is amazing, he was on the Pirate Mollie mislynch wagon, and was a major motivator on the beginning of the Shinori mislynch just because you trust him as town doesn't mean he is a godlike scum catcher who will lead us to victory.
On day 1 I thought you were one of the better players in the town, likely to come up with many interesting points and observations, now though... I dunno, its like you've given up because we have a couple of mislynches.

[theomoaner]

I'd be inclined to agree if we didn't have several likely scum targets or not be at the position of putting ourselves at MYLO if their claim is true. I'd much rather take a chance on Jun, Maenara or possibly CE, though I believe that CE is just a bad player rather than scum.

[theomoaner]

Assuming Maenara is not third-party then I have her probable scum-team as TBM and Numbers, the problem is I can't find any sort of link between Maenara and Jun, and Jun is almost certainly scum, though if Maenara is third party... Of course the truth is, as I have said before, I wouldn't rule anyone alive out.

The problem for me with testing the mason claim is this, while I could see Eleison as being scum, I just can't see Smashie as scum. Ok, he lost the plot a little of late, but overall I think he has been solid town. This puts me in an awkward position really, because I accept the logic of what you say, but I don't have any good reason to dispute the claim, on the strength of Smashies towniness.
Also, if we are accepting a three or four man scum team then there are other "non-mason claimed" scum that I feel it may be better to go after first.

Maybe if we get to MYLO and we're going to loose anyway then taking out one of them would be an option, until then I won't be joining a mason wagon.

We've got a week left until deadline, I suggest those of us that are left who actually still give a damn (not sure who that is, other than myself) use the time to investigate, before we start clutching at straws and pursuing avenues of desperation.

[theomoaner]

I think lynching one of them pays the risk...

In what way?

What info are you going to gain if the lynchee proves to be town, other than not to lynch the other one at MYLO? And is that info worth another mislynch?

[theomoaner]

Ah, I stand corrected then by the immense weight of your.... what's the word.... logic? no not quite... erm.... argument, no not that didn't see one of them.

Maenara, all you said there was "lets lynch a mason because they're not me.

...
You know what? I'll go along with Buldermar's lynch-a-mason suggestion. Things in this game just don't add up the way they oughta, and neither Smashbard or Eleison

feel

town - Smash did early on, but it has deteriorated today. Jun has gone too muddled for me to know if he's scum, and CE's antics have messed up any chance of getting him dead too. Nobody seems to be willing to go along with Dividizzle, and so it's pretty much the only option left.

Please note that I'm not sheeping Buldermar on this on, and that I take full responsibility for the suggestion, as well as whatever fallout may occur, should it go through and end in a town-flip.

So your going to lynch a claimed mason because jun, CE and Dividizzle are not targets, Mmmm, last time I looked there were (excluding them, the masons and yourself) six other players in the game, any opinion about them, or is that it, Dividizzle, Jun, CE or anyone you can get lynched without all the complicated effort of trying to build a case on them?

It would also be nice if you were to answer my question from #1221.

[theomoaner]

Get off your high horse before you fall off. I forgot to answer because of a certain lil' incident with a certain lil' video.

If I get on a horse of any size any time soon you'll be the first to know

Me wanting him dead means I - based on what information I have at the moment - reckon he'd be a fine lynch on another day.

And yeah, I do have opinions on the rest of y'all. TBM asks questions that need to be asked, so he lives. Hiraki is too apathetic to say much of anything, so he's too shaky to lynch at the moment. Numbers is a null-read 'cause he ain't saying much of anything. Got a sorta townie read on NJAC after my skirmish with him. Buldermar is Credit To Team, and needs to stay alive if only because he's one o' the few people I can see making sense around here. And you? Eh, you dig and you contribute. If you're town, we need to keep you around, and if you're scum, it'll be more clear when more things have happened.

There.

Thank you, so,
Please quote and explain the relevance of the six questions that TBM has asked so far.
Numbers hasn't done enough to be anything other than a null read, how does that tie in with your "cases" on CE and Jun, both of whom are scum for lurking.

Nice bit of fence sitting on a Theo read there too.

@Theo: what is it so bad to lynch one of them?

It doesn't get us anywhere ultimately, let me explain.
1. Masons are town, we have another myslynch, and loose someone else to the NK, we're at MYLO
2. Masons are scum, we lynch one of them today, lose a town to the NK , quick lynch the other day 4 without gaining any other information, lose anther town to the NK, who would almost certainly be a PR based on a standard role distribution. then you are at day 5, heading into MYLO still needing to find 1 or 2 scum (and maybe a third party) having lost a PR and probably another of our better players. If they have a rolecop (not too unreasonable an assumption) they are virtually guaranteed to have found, and executed, a PR by day 5.

I think it's much better to at least try to find scum based on evidence today, even by random vote (assuming 4 scum and masons claim is correct.) we have a 2/3rds chance of not myslynching. If we lynch a mason I'd put the odds of hitting scum at about 12-88 against, because there is little evidence that the masons are scum.

I'll have a set of reads up soon.

[theomoaner]

Reading back I don't think I explained that as well as I could of, I hope you got the idea though.

[theomoaner]

^Just saying it how I see it. I'd rather the serious scum hunting to find the remaining scum not be left in the hands of, shall we say, the less capable/interested players in a couple of days time.

Anyway those reads.

Scum.
Maenara - poor case building, opportunistic voting, overly defensive.
TBM - based on Telos non-existent play and his continuation of it
Numbers - Thurhames play, post are mostly just defensive, and genral lurking

Null
Jun - I've been working on the idea that Jun was scum but I'm reaching the conclusion that he is just not very good at this game, at this level.
CE - Lurker but I don't see anything scummy going on at this point, it would be nice if he joined in the game properly.
Hiraki - Where have you gone Hiraki?

Town
Smash - Consistently town play, until his crisis of confidence, but he seems to be coming back from it.
Elieson - By assosiation with Smash, otherwise he'd be null.

The probable fourth scum is amongst those not in this list, I have an idea but I'll keep it to myself for now, I want to see a bit more first.

[theomoaner]

What do you mean?

I mean you have gone from, for example, the attempt to analyse the game that was post 41 to dropping in pointless one liners like 1101 and 1107

[theomoaner]

^ Good to know

[theomoaner]

@All those with a CE suspicion: Who do you think he is scum with and why?

[theomoaner]

Jun please reread the question and try to answer it properly.

In fact I'll rephrase the question, just to be safe.

All those with a CE suspicion: Who are CEs scum-buddies and why?

[theomoaner]

I've rethought one of my read's. Numbers is probably town, but if we're going to waste our lynch on stupidity today then lets lynch him for having a lower post count than someone who was NK'd 26 days ago. If that is not lurking I don't know what is.

[theomoaner]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CE

Your last constructive comment, that was actual non-shite and related to something to do with the game was 1 week and 1 day ago.

[theomoaner]

And that is an excuse for not trying make something happen, by... I dunno.... Participating?

[theomoaner]

Maenara: I've been trying to think of a reasonable response to your wall of vent, and all I can come up with which addresses it, and is also truthful is this.

Perhaps if people are ignoring your points, it's because your points are not worth commenting on?

[theomoaner]

Anyway

UNVOTE:

Rash reaction vote to more bullshit from CE. It's not where I really want my vote to be. Though it may end up there again before long.


P-edit: Perhaps that's the case for some, but I can only look at my reasons. I think I already address my point of view on your case on Dividizzle earlier, and made my view on voting for a mason quite clear. any other points you have made haven't been of sufficient value to be commented on. I'm not ignoring you, I can assure you that I have read and reread your posts more than any-ones in the last couple of (RL) days.

[theomoaner]

Theo: If Enigma flips scum I'd suggest a scumteam with NJAC, Numbers And Maenara. With the slight possibility of Buldermar is Maenara isnt just hardcore bussing

This is interesting. Could you please explain what you mean by Maenara hardcore bussing?

@Maenara: My view on Dividizzle is that his reads and thoughts follow through a train that is internally consistent and remain within a set pattern. For example he states early on that he thinks me and NJAC may be scum and his other posts are centred around this idea, until he develops a new set of prime targets. He is looking a little scummy, because of commitment-o-phobia, which is why I found your case semi-convincing as this is an angle that you highlighted, but he

could

just be cautious town. I also don't like the way he doesn't ask many questions of his targets. As I also said earlier, I will be taking a closer look at him, but I have what I believe is a full scum team, so I guess it depends on how other flips go as to whether I get to look at him or not before we run out of lynches.

[theomoaner]

^ *hums theme to mission impossible*

[theomoaner]

And @Theo: a bit outdated but I didn't fully understand your post 1314. While I'm not refusing your points about the masons, because as I said buldermar already explained why falseclaiming masons as scums is suboptimal, I'd like you to clarify your odds.

I mean with two confirmed masons, it's 10 players left, 4 scums (I'm still wondering where you all get this but let's suppose it's likely) and 6 townies. That gives us a 4/10 (or 2/5) chance of not mislynching, right? Even if an hypothetical investigative role confirms two more townies, we would be in a 50/50 scenario (1/2 chance of mislynching) I guess...

You're right, probabilities were never my strong point.

Realised I didn't. VOTE: Maenara

[theomoaner]

I fixed your post for you.

Oh look, not a single one of my scum reads on CE's wagon, and two (including CE) on the counterwagon.

Now it's more accurate. Strange how you neglect the fact the the counterwagon is also on one of your scum reads.

[theomoaner]

I'm trying hard to come up with a game related post here but there is nothing mush happening so...

@Smash: If you were right all the time there would be little point in playing.

@CE: Stop posting, you don't want to play, fine. Just stop trolling everyone else.

Honestly, this game at the moment is like taking my youngest to school, and watching how the under 10's interact with each other.

[theomoaner]

^ *much*

[theomoaner]

This game has just reached a level of retarded beneath what I though was possible.

Numbers, your entire analysis is based on an opinion that scum are unlikely to replace, many better players than those in this game believe the opposite to be true. My experience of replacing in to games also suggests the opposite to be true. If you are seriously going to propose a lynch based on that opinion then you are clearly scum.

[theomoaner]

CE: congratulations on being able to solve a puzzle, the solution to which, has been in the public domain for over 30 years. You must be very proud of yourself.

Numbers is the lynch for tomorrow. Trying to push logic which allows for a number of lynches to chained together without any further explanation needed is virtually always scum logic. Not that I think we are going to get far enough for it to be needed.

[theomoaner]

Oh, you WERE proud of yourself!

[theomoaner]

^ I agree, though I think CE is probably town, I just can't be arsed with any more of his bullshit.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CE

[theomoaner]

Holy [line deleted for the sake of public decency]

Thanks for modding Myko, I'm probably a minority but I enjoyed that one, especially trying to figure out what was going on at the end.

GG scum. Not using the dayvig was masterful, it gave the claim an air of conf-town as it would be unlikely that scum would

NOT

use it. And for me that cleared NJAC as he didn't take the quicklynch.

Smash, stop getting yourself twisted over it, it's (ultimately) a team game, we lost a a town not as Smash and some other people. I was as responsible if not more so for pushing two of those lynches, and (though it shames me to admit it) I knowingly hammered a townie, because I just couldn't face the prospect of another day of pictures from CE, my only comfort is that I would have still mislynched anyway.

The two roleblockers had the whole counterclaim problem (one RB pushed to claim, other CCs, they lynch one then the other is NKed).

Yes I was semi-unpleasant to Myko about this in a PM, but then I got NK'd so it didn't matter.

Also, it occurs to me that I have a hat to eat.

Looking forward to the vid.

Buldermar you didn't play badly so stop that now.

For the sake of completeness as it looks like Myko's not going to, I blocked 1. EPM, 2. Hiraki (why didn't I stay with this thought ) 3. Buldermar

[theomoaner]

Like I said I think it was hard to regard the dayvig role as scum as it went unused to the end, it made it look like it was in the hands of a townie. I don't think you could class this as a silly mistake because of the way the role was used.

[theomoaner]

Now that was mad as a badger. Nice one.