NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[BulbaFenix]

Hey everybody! Quick breakdown of what's happening:

Fenix is going to be doing a lot of the driving in this hydra, as he has more time to devote than I do. I should be in during a 3 hr. window Mon.-Fri., by which point you'll probably have had enough of my walls of posts. I do talk with Fenix on a regular basis (we know each other irl.), so I will be aware of what is happening at all times.

Be warned, I think Metal Sonic has a hard on for me.

I'm going to be going back and actually catching up on the thread (via 3DS if necessary). When I've caught up, Fenix and I will convene about our reads, and I will then post my standard catch-up reads. Until then, Fenix will be keeping track of current events and interacting with everyone. See you soon.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Hello everyone, Fenix here. Gonna do a quick catch up of what's live right now. Got a BIG news report that just dropped into my lap, so I gotta report and discuss on it. So, brb

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Going to need to get with the Bulba head tonight to discuss our reads. Not sure on a few things on my end. ISO'd a few people. After we discuss our notes, we'll move from there.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Ok! Haihai everyone! Fenix here. Bulba will be coming tomorrow and posting his catch up and reads list for everyone to view. For now though

Unvote
Vote StevieT92

[BulbaFenix]

Oh, now I might understand wtf you meant.

I gave the reason for my read, not the reason as of why I posted it. Nobody questioned WHY I really saw him as town and why it kept building up.

you're not getting it.

You say you don't give reads-I prove you wrong by quoting your "more or less " town read on kingcrabd
Then you say the reason why you did post that read is because kingcrabd was "extremely towny" at that time.

That does not make sense because you posted "more or less". If you thought he was "extremely towny", you wouldn't have posted "more or less" towny. You telling him it was built up does not make sense either, because I'm talking about 1 post. Sure, it's possible your town read on him improved later, but you never mentioned that again.

I'm not saying people can't be wrong. But you're trying to defend yourself using a false argument.

You're piling up the contradictions and you keep defending them too.

Read my post again pls, not gonna repeat.
You say it's not possible that I got a stronger town read of him later, yet you say it is??

I'm not defending myself on a wrong argument, I told you I'm guilty as charged for forgetting that one read.

What I'm defending is that my read became different later, if you're gonna keep on your vote for that. Be an idiot, and be my guest being an idiot.

Whether or not your read became different later on is irrelevant, because we're talking about the time of the post.

Now hold on. Someone changing their mind or getting a different vibe from a player is quite common. I noticed what Shadi has done and he's not getting off the hook that easy.

Call me an idiot all you want, you're just not getting my point. I'm tired of trying to explain and no-one is backing me up. No point in continuing a lost cause, I suppose

But, neither are you. For me, you sitting here trying to make a case from the timing of his posts is a terrible argument to try and make a stand on. Complaining about no one backing you up on it doesn't help your case against Shadi either.

Shadi

, your case is a very piss poor one too. Firstly, how does you not giving reads and forming them through other reads help any case you're trying to make right now? I'm willing to accept the fact that you are human and therefor are susceptible to error as far as your posting issue goes. But, from a player stand point, you trying to use other reads to form your own reads REEKS of something scum would do.

As of now, besides Crab, who do YOU

Shadi

have where in your reads? And don't give me this "I don't have reads" bullcrap either.

@MetalSonic

Why the vote on Orc?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

@Mod

Sorry. Posted from my OTHER profile by mistake.

@Shadi

Dramonic
ProHawk
Serene
The Goat (or this slot since it will soon be replaced)
Ankamis
Domo

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

On a scale of Stevie to Nero, what end is the towncred I get for voting Stevie at?

None .

What do you think of Shadi?

I like that you responded to that post with a tangent that leads directly to one of the big questions currently on the table.

Leaning town.

Could be some residual guilt involved. I replaced out of a game over an issue with the mod. Was so pissed I didn't post an update on my reads, and left him to the tender mercies of kuribo who eventually replaced into my slot.

But, despite his stance in that game, which does ring all sorts of objective-scum bells, I got a sense of town motivation out of it all eventually.

This game has more noise and he's being attacked from more directions, which makes it a little harder to tease out the motivation from his posts, so my town read is tentative.


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=28496

For me, it's his (Shadi) want to form his reads with other reads. Not in a "buddying" sort of manner, but in a sheep like manner.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

You're reading Shadi as town because of a sheeplike manner wrt forming reads?

You're reading Shadi as town because of a sheeplike manner wrt forming reads?

Specify query.

[BulbaFenix]

For me, it's his (Shadi) want to form his reads with other reads. Not in a "buddying" sort of manner, but in a sheep like manner.

I was trying to quote this, and reflect it back to see if i understood it.

Are you reading Shadi as town?

No. I am seeing him null/scum right now.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

@Mod

Sorry. Posted from my OTHER profile by mistake.

@Shadi

Dramonic
ProHawk
Serene
The Goat (or this slot since it will soon be replaced)
Ankamis
Domo

-Fenix

What is this?

^^ This is a response to this vv

Oh, now I might understand wtf you meant.

I gave the reason for my read, not the reason as of why I posted it. Nobody questioned WHY I really saw him as town and why it kept building up.

you're not getting it.

You say you don't give reads-I prove you wrong by quoting your "more or less " town read on kingcrabd
Then you say the reason why you did post that read is because kingcrabd was "extremely towny" at that time.

That does not make sense because you posted "more or less". If you thought he was "extremely towny", you wouldn't have posted "more or less" towny. You telling him it was built up does not make sense either, because I'm talking about 1 post. Sure, it's possible your town read on him improved later, but you never mentioned that again.

I'm not saying people can't be wrong. But you're trying to defend yourself using a false argument.

You're piling up the contradictions and you keep defending them too.

Read my post again pls, not gonna repeat.
You say it's not possible that I got a stronger town read of him later, yet you say it is??

I'm not defending myself on a wrong argument, I told you I'm guilty as charged for forgetting that one read.

What I'm defending is that my read became different later, if you're gonna keep on your vote for that. Be an idiot, and be my guest being an idiot.

Whether or not your read became different later on is irrelevant, because we're talking about the time of the post.
Call me an idiot all you want, you're just not getting my point.

I'm tired of trying to explain and no-one is backing me up. No point in continuing a lost cause, I suppose

It is not, and yes you're an being an idiot.
And maybe noone's backing you up as it's not that strong, and/or have stronger reads. Also a human act you don't seem to accept.

Dear Orci: Your read on Shadi is wrong

Sincerely, Cabd

No but seriously, this is his town meta, my goodness. It’s blindingly obvious. Go metadive him.

My goodness, why don't you actually SHOW us the game you're referencing instead of wasting your time making a pretty box?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28000 (my first game on site btw) I don't really see why Cabd thinks I'm that strong of a town, but then again he read my ass pretty fucking well in this game and with that I don't mean alignment as Cab was scum but my thoughts and future actions. He hasn't yet seen me as a confirmed scum to say what my town meta is and not, although I guess it's a similar feeling I have with him now but this time I'm reading town.

Oh, now I might understand wtf you meant.

I gave the reason for my read, not the reason as of why I posted it. Nobody questioned WHY I really saw him as town and why it kept building up.

you're not getting it.

You say you don't give reads-I prove you wrong by quoting your "more or less " town read on kingcrabd
Then you say the reason why you did post that read is because kingcrabd was "extremely towny" at that time.

That does not make sense because you posted "more or less". If you thought he was "extremely towny", you wouldn't have posted "more or less" towny. You telling him it was built up does not make sense either, because I'm talking about 1 post. Sure, it's possible your town read on him improved later, but you never mentioned that again.

I'm not saying people can't be wrong. But you're trying to defend yourself using a false argument.

You're piling up the contradictions and you keep defending them too.

Read my post again pls, not gonna repeat.
You say it's not possible that I got a stronger town read of him later, yet you say it is??

I'm not defending myself on a wrong argument, I told you I'm guilty as charged for forgetting that one read.

What I'm defending is that my read became different later, if you're gonna keep on your vote for that. Be an idiot, and be my guest being an idiot.

Whether or not your read became different later on is irrelevant, because we're talking about the time of the post.

Now hold on. Someone changing their mind or getting a different vibe from a player is quite common. I noticed what Shadi has done and he's not getting off the hook that easy.

Call me an idiot all you want, you're just not getting my point. I'm tired of trying to explain and no-one is backing me up. No point in continuing a lost cause, I suppose

But, neither are you. For me, you sitting here trying to make a case from the timing of his posts is a terrible argument to try and make a stand on. Complaining about no one backing you up on it doesn't help your case against Shadi either.

Shadi

, your case is a very piss poor one too. Firstly, how does you not giving reads and forming them through other reads help any case you're trying to make right now? I'm willing to accept the fact that you are human and therefor are susceptible to error as far as your posting issue goes. But, from a player stand point, you trying to use other reads to form your own reads REEKS of something scum would do.

As of now, besides Crab, who do YOU

Shadi

have where in your reads? And don't give me this "I don't have reads" bullcrap either.

@MetalSonic

Why the vote on Orc?

-Fenix

As I said earlier pls give me names then I will give a few reads. I don't really understand why reading other people's reads and form your own out of actions and possible groups is scum, I can see why scum would do it but I really don't see why it's a stupid villager move. Isn't that how most wagons and such start?

He said give him names and he will give a few reads. I'm now waiting to hear his response.

[BulbaFenix]

Caught up and have snuck onto a computer. Disappointed with Fenix, as he was supposed to help me by getting me live reads while I read through the game. Anyway, here is the official reads list and catchup post:

Town

Rift Adrift

: 1 of 2 strong town reads from when I was initially skimming the thread before we replaced in. They are actively scumhunting, and all of their posts read genuine.

Calcifer

: 2nd of the strong town reads from initial skim. Same as Calcifer, only not as strong.

King Crabd

: All of their posts read as genuine. There is no attempt at fakery here.

Ankamius

: There is some genuine thought here. I was a little nervous about his mention of LYLO in #328, but I get the sense that he's the type of player to consider that as town.

DOMO

: Not as much of a gut read as the others. They appeal to the logic part of me, and they are actively scumhunting. Everything they do comes from town motivation. Therefore, they're town.

Metal Sonic

: Trust me, he's town. I wish he'd post more, though, without me having to tunnel him to death...

Baby Spice

: What little she's posted has consisted of actual scumhunting. I'd like to see more, but I'm willing to call her town for now.

BROseidon

: Everybody who thinks he's scum needs to have their heads examined. Calling out a stupid anti-town plan is not scummy. Self-voting is not scummy (contrary to popular opinion). Heck, in Voided's Nightless Mountainous game, there were 4 self votes (including myself). Guess what? They were all town. He's doing some genuine scumhunting here. He's town. Deal with it.

Null/Town

Zdenek

: I almost want to call him town. However, he's done a few things that I've never seen from him before when he was town in Voided's game. I want to observe him a little bit more first before I put him fully in the town pile.

TheIrishPope

: Fenix convinced me to put him more in the null section. Personally, I like him for town. I'm not sure I see the scum motivation in his posts. Regardless, he makes me laugh, so I'm not keen about lynching him anytime soon.

Null

Orcinus_theoriginal

: Not sure how to take this one. On the one hand, I like him for town, due to him actively scumhunting. On the other hand, I'm not agreeing with a lot of his reads, and he's been too eager lately to jump on some really fishy wagons. I think I'll need more time to sort this one out.

Serene

: Personally, I'd love to list this slot as town, not only because I liked the Newbie rage quit from their predecessor, but also because I like the idea of all the hydras being town together. However, I really do not like #646. Normally when I've seen town super secret hydras, they are not worried about being lynched should the heads become known, rather, they're worried about being NK'd. The fact that Serene said lynched suggests that they're not worried about the NK. I also do not like their push of Calcifer. The only reason they are null is because I see reasons why they could be town, and I originally wanted to put them as null/town. However, Fenix wanted to put them as scum. We compromised, hence the null.

The Goat

: Nothing much has been posted from this slot. The closest we get to anything alignment indicative is #461, which feels slightly town to me. Interested in what we get from his replacement.

TSO

: Honestly, I keep flip flopping on him. He'll post something I'll believe is scummy, such as some of his initial cases, or his attack of Metal Sonic, or his recent push for town cred. But then he'll post a bunch of things that are strongly town. I'll probably watch him and see what I think about him tomorrow.

Nero

: Eddie likes him for town. I have a bit of a scum lean on him. However, I'm not sure if this is due to actual scumminess or a difference in playstyle. He posts similarly to TIP, but he's not doing so to be funny. He doesn't explain any of his reads, he attacks players without basis, and I'm sure I've seen him arbitrarily sheeping at points (I need to check this one out later.). At best his play is anti-town. I'm just not sure if it's actually scummy.

?Null/Scum?

Shadi1337

: To be honest, I'm beginning to like him more, so he may move up before long. I just didn't like his flail earlier, as I didn't think that it felt like town flail. Fenix and I struggled real hard on his placement. Actually, screw it, he's plain null. Fenix, we can talk about it later.

Actual Null/Scum

StubbsKVM

: Fenix and I went back and forth on this one. Admittedly, it's a gut read. I don't think that a lot of his posts feel genuine. Definitely going to watch this slot as the day progresses.

Brian Hollywood

: Fenix fought for his placement closer to the scum pile. Brian hasn't posted anything game related. All of his posts have avoided what was actually happening at the time. I also don't buy his reaction to Zdenek's fake day kill, as that gambit is common enough that Brian's reaction could be faked (I've actually seen it at least twice before, and I'm relatively new to the site.).

Scum

TMTOLBTWNTOF

: I actually agree with our predecessor on this slot, although I get the feeling that Fenix is not convinced. TMT is active lurking. What he posts appears to be content at first glance, but it is actually saying nothing of importance.

Doc Holliday

: I don't like his blatant opportunism. I also feel that he and TIP are not on the same team, due to his #75 and TIP's response. If Doc is actually town, I'm actually going to take a second look at TIP.

StevieT92

: His reasons for voting and suspecting slots near the beginning of the day were bad, and I also didn't like how he said that no one should be townreading anybody so early in the game. It felt like he was trying to keep town from finding each other for as long as possible, and instead wanted them to focus on who he deigned as scum. His posts since then have not improved.

Dramonic

: His posts have contained absolutely no content. #734 feels more like knowledge than actual setup spec. He feels sure in his answer, where anybody speculating would use language that indicated that they were unsure or guessing.

ProHawk

: Post #10 was really bad, as has been repeatedly explained. However, I can understand why people are hesitant to use that as their only reasoning. His later posts, though, do not feel like town. They have a slimy quality to them, and it feels as if he's trying to manipulate people when he addresses them so that they say something that he can attack as scummy. He's scum and needs to be lynched as soon as possible. I'll be addressing some of his posts soon.

Going to address a few more recent posts before I go. Any questions?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Dear Crabd, Would I be able to catch you as scum by looking at your scum game? Or would it look eerily like your town game? Hmmmm....

It's interesting that you're insinuating that Crabd is scum via meta when you haven't even looked up his meta.

On my phone, but want to reiterate what someone said about the BRO wagon disintegrating due to his absence. Outta Sight Outta Mind.

Your subtlety here is almost admirable. You really want that BRO mislynch, don't you. I also like how you make sure that you mention it was someone else's idea, since you could just point to that later should BRO flip town.

^ I can see this slot as scum

Indeed. They are bussing right now. Fenix even makes sure everyone knows his vote is temporary.

Actually, I told Fenix to put the vote on Stevie. Fenix and I have already discussed his penchant for being overly dramatic when placing his vote. The vote is real and is staying where it's at.

Bro's even joining other games, so town read cancelled.

That is a horrible reason to read a slot as scum.

Bulba replaced Mac right?

This head reads Mac as scum because he complained in one game about being scum alot and then replaced out.

Are you seriously using the Gambler's Fallacy on our predecessor to suggest that we are scum?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba, Prohawk and I have extensive offsite meta together. However, It's been town/town meta offsite exclusively. He also followed (and did not play in) a game where I was scum. As for the other head, he's been scum with prohawk, so there's that.

What's your other head saying about Prohawk right now, King?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

How cute. Bulba starts calling us scum after the site deleted our post where i referred to him as scum.

That's cute. Because, if you actually read that huge post where Bulba came in and posted, you are null. Bulba head wanted you as null/town, I'm the one who has the feeling that you are scummy.

Bulba is almost confirmed scum in the eyes of head #2


Go read Macs posts in that Goonies scum QT and tell me what sticks out


go ahead. i'll wait here.

. Still pushing that Gambler's Fallacy, eh? Cute.

Post #10 was really bad, as has been repeatedly explained. However, I can understand why people are hesitant to use that as their only reasoning.

Well screw you bud.

SO wait... bad like scum bad?

Bad like idiotic bad?

Bad like you are scum and can't ignore my post so must comment and take the side of the majority?

or

Bad like baaaad man. That idea rocks?

They have a slimy quality to them, and it feels as if he's trying to manipulate people when he addresses them so that they say something that he can attack as scummy. He's scum and needs to be lynched as soon as possible. I'll be addressing some of his posts soon.

Humm... I think I have been accused of this before... yeah!

Anyway...

It's interesting that you're insinuating that Crabd is scum via meta when you haven't even looked up his meta.

Your assumption here makes

you

look the fool. It's bad and you should feel bad.

Your subtlety here is almost admirable. You really want that BRO mislynch, don't you. I also like how you make sure that you mention it was someone else's idea, since you could just point to that later should BRO flip town.

I wasn't being subtle, but ok... I don't often take credit for others ideas ; do you?

Also, this sounds eerily like you know what BRO would flip... why is that? Your rationale of why he is town consists of: He is doing genuine scum-hunting and the things he has done aren't scummy (In your opinion). Because scum would never genuinely hunt-scum. Amirite? Scum could never not do something scummy.

I'm getting off the phone with Bulba now... He's at the library... Here's your headstart to run....

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

What 'fishy wagons'

The ones on TIP and Calcifer and your jump on Shadi.

Lold @ ur read on me Bulba sounds confused.

It is.

He's being anti-town but so anti-town that he could just be town.

I dislike the "too scummy to be scum" fallacy. Just so ya know.

How cute. Bulba starts calling us scum after the site deleted our post where i referred to him as scum.

My 3DS was unable to connect to the site during the weekend, and obviously a lot of things that I cannot see or respond to were lost. It's hard to react to something that does not exist.

Bulba is almost confirmed scum in the eyes of head #2


Go read Macs posts in that Goonies scum QT and tell me what sticks out


go ahead. i'll wait here.

Please read Mac's handful of quotes in this game and give me your thoughts. Better yet, give me your thoughts on our posts so far this game.

go ahead. I'll wait here.

And the whole thing about "why are they worried about getting lynched" is taking a throwaway joke a little too seriously. I've been asked to tell you that scum would be too afraid to NK that which is unknown to them.

You're seriously suggesting that scum would want to take the risk of leaving an unknown factor in play? Are you high?

I'm not dead-weight, I just don't put any faith in Day 1.

That's too bad. There tends to be a lot of good stuff d1.

dire. i made a 2000 word post summarising my reads, pity the server got rid of them.

You can always make yourself useful and retype it. I'll wait.

Post #10 was really bad, as has been repeatedly explained. However, I can understand why people are hesitant to use that as their only reasoning.

Well screw you bud.

SO wait... bad like scum bad?

Bad like idiotic bad?

Bad like you are scum and can't ignore my post so must comment and take the side of the majority?

or

Bad like baaaad man. That idea rocks?

My meaning was obvious given the context. However, since you lack the basic reading comprehension necessary, I'll reiterate: Incredibly scummy bad and must be lynched ASAP. Do you really want to get into a game of semantics with the writer?

They have a slimy quality to them, and it feels as if he's trying to manipulate people when he addresses them so that they say something that he can attack as scummy. He's scum and needs to be lynched as soon as possible. I'll be addressing some of his posts soon.

Humm... I think I have been accused of this before... yeah!

Using someone else's meta against me does not impress me in the slightest. Do you actually want to discuss my point, or are you simply wasting my time?

It's interesting that you're insinuating that Crabd is scum via meta when you haven't even looked up his meta.

Your assumption here makes

you

look the fool. It's bad and you should feel bad.

What was your point then? Saying I'm stupid does absolutely nothing if you don't explain your original premise. Or was the point here simply to discredit me?

Your subtlety here is almost admirable. You really want that BRO mislynch, don't you. I also like how you make sure that you mention it was someone else's idea, since you could just point to that later should BRO flip town.

I wasn't being subtle

You weren't. Ok, I now know what your shouting voice looks like.

but ok... I don't often take credit for others ideas ; do you?

Saying that it was somebody else's idea gave you an out. It's not exactly like "BROseidon needs more attention paid to him" is such an original idea anyway...

Also, this sounds eerily like you know what BRO would flip... why is that?

Yes, because "should" indicates my obvious knowledge of his alignment.

Because scum would never genuinely hunt-scum. Amirite? Scum could never not do something scummy.

That's misrepresenting my position. There's a difference between how town scum hunts and how scum "scum hunts", mainly the fact that scum is pretending to do so while town is genuine in their pursuits. As such, there should be ways to tell the 2 apart. I get the distinct impression that BRO is genuine in his attempts to find scum, and it shows in how he pursues suspects and types his posts.

Also, the only way scum would ever genuinely scum hunt would be if this was multi-ball and they were searching for another scum team. Are you suggesting that this is the case?

I also find it interesting that you start posting up a storm right after I call you scum. Speaking of which, Dramonic is getting the attention he deserves.

Unvote

Vote Dramonic

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

This is a confusing post.

What about it do you find confusing?

That's cute. Because, if you actually read that huge post where Bulba came in and posted, you are null. Bulba head wanted you as null/town, I'm the one who has the feeling that you are scummy.

Your heads are so indistinguishable that I couldn't care less which one said what.

That's probably the funniest thing I've heard all day. Were you actually trying to dispute something or simply posting gibberish?

. Still pushing that Gambler's Fallacy, eh? Cute.

It's not a Gambler's Fallacy.

Mac said he was tired of rolling scum IN A GAME WHERE HE REPLACED OUT AS SCUM.

Therefore, his replacing out of THIS game while he continues to join OTHER games is absolutely significant.

Really? Because I find it to be null. How are you coming with that post analysis I asked of you?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

This should be good. Do tell?

[BulbaFenix]

Zdenek, are you actually going to start suspecting people for actual scumtells, or are you going to continue to chase red herrings?

-Bulba (as was the last one)

[BulbaFenix]

And for the record I can't really find where you asked me to do anything but maybe it's because I'm not reading the massive blocks of meandering feces that are your insanely long wall posts

You REALLY don't know Bulba very well then, do you? You should start reading and start answering his questions... Last thing you want to do is get into a war with him. It won't end well for you. Besides, it's not that hard to read walls.

What about it do you find confusing?

The fact that you(?) voted dramonic at the end of all that disputation with ProHawke. Trajectory fail.

Simple. The reason why we voted Dramonic over ProHawk is because Dramonic is a viable wagon and ProHawk is not.

I know what you mean, my heads that actually read the game haven't posted in the QT since before the crash

Bull. Skype, AIM, and a QT can be ran off from the mafia scum site.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

You REALLY don't know Bulba very well then, do you? You should start reading and start answering his questions... Last thing you want to do is get into a war with him. It won't end well for you.

Don't.


EVER.

Threaten.

Me.


I don't take it well.

I'm not threatening you. I'm promising you that you're in for a fun time soon. That's all.

serene can you fucking vote stevie now so i dont need to attempt to communicate with you anymore.

You should talk to him, Nero.

Simple. The reason why we voted Dramonic over ProHawk is because Dramonic is a viable wagon and ProHawk is not.

Why dramonic over Stevie?

I'm going to leave this one to Bulba's head.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Really? Because I find it to be null. How are you coming with that post analysis I asked of you?

why are you assuming that I'm either of the heads that read the game prior to replacing in?

I'm sorry. I just assumed that you were playing the game.

or assuming that I feel the need to do anything asked of me by scum?

Yes, because actually providing actual analysis or a case on the person you're accusing to be scum is so hard. It must be a trap.

And for the record I can't really find where you asked me to do anything but maybe it's because I'm not reading the massive blocks of meandering feces that are your insanely long wall posts

So you're dodging my questions, avoiding giving actual analysis, and trying to discredit my points. Remind me why you're not scum again?

Simple. The reason why we voted Dramonic over ProHawk is because Dramonic is a viable wagon and ProHawk is not.

Why dramonic over Stevie?

Because Dramonic is a stronger scum read than Stevie.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

So you're dodging my questions, avoiding giving actual analysis, and trying to discredit my points. Remind me why you're not scum again?

Because, and I can't stress this enough


I HAVENT READ THE FUCKING GAME YOU SCUM FUCK

Bulba is almost confirmed scum in the eyes of head #2


Go read Macs posts in that Goonies scum QT and tell me what sticks out


go ahead. i'll wait here.

Please read Mac's handful of quotes in this game and give me your thoughts. Better yet, give me your thoughts on our posts so far this game.

go ahead. I'll wait here.

What's your excuse now?

[BulbaFenix]

All I'm asking for you to do is actually be pro-town and provide some actual analysis. If you can't do that, you may as well claim scum and put yourself out of your misery.

-Bulba (as were the previous 2 posts)

P-Edit: I've made BBMolla cry like a little girl. Do you really think I'm going to run from you, because you post in all caps?

[BulbaFenix]

All I'm asking for you to do is actually be pro-town and provide some actual analysis. If you can't do that, you may as well claim scum and put yourself out of your misery.

-Bulba (as were the previous 2 posts)

P-Edit: I've made BBMolla cry like a little girl. Do you really think I'm going to run from you, because you post in all caps?

my analysis is that shadi is town, mac is scum ergo you are scum, and also FUCK YOU


i don't cry, fucker, you want to bring it then bring it

First, if this is Kuribo, I've seen you as town, and I know that as town, there would be nothing that'd be stopping you from catching up with the game. Heck, you've even bragged that you once hammered so you could catch up overnight. I don't see what's keeping you from catching up in this game. We replaced in after you, and I was able to catch up in 3 days, on a 3DS no less!

Second, if this is Kuribo, the fact that you have stayed in the background and have not been hardpushing your scum reads speaks volumes to me. In fact, the only reason you are posting like you usually do now is because I've pushed the right buttons to get you to stop lurking so that you may actually contribute. I'm not asking for a miracle here, simply for you to scumhunt and provide some analysis. If you can't do that, then you are completely useless and anti-town at best, scummy at worse.

-Bulba (Sorry this took so long. Fenix wouldn't stop chatting my ear off...)

[BulbaFenix]

And now I've lost all my motivation to try catching up today.

better watch it bulba will call you scum

Hello strawman. My issue is not with you not catching up, rather it is with you refusing to provide actual analysis and contribute to discussion.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Except that I DID.

I've explained my slot's scumread on Calcifer
I've explained my own scum read on you
I've explained that I see shadi as town

So Calcifer is scum, because he went along with ProHawk's idea (which I will agree was bad), and I'm scum, because Mac replaced out? Am I understanding your cases correctly?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

now who's not fucking reading?

Head #1 felt strongly enough about it to put down a vote but admitted that it was gut and that wasn't much to go on

Head #3 agreed that Nacho may be scum

Head #2 is me and I trust the other two's reads above even my own

and for the record I have no clue what idea of ProHawk's your referring to

Calcifer actually went along with the bone-headed idea of supplying 4 players for some insane lynch pool.

TheIrishPope
BROseidon
Nero
Zdenek

VOTE: TheIrishPope.

Then voted a townie.

I want to hang this scummy thing in the temple of all that is sacred.

Want to run the not reading thing by me again?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

You still haven't addressed the case on our slot.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

All I've heard from your hydra is that we are scum due to Mac replacing out, which as I've explained, is a null tell and is not indicative of alignment. If you have something better, then by all means, let's hear it so that we can actually discuss something.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Remember--- I called you scum, and YOU threatened me.

Don't you ever in your fucking LIFE call my bluff Bulba.

First, if you want to be technical, it was actually Fenix who threatened you, which I felt wasn't necessary. However, I would look at it less like being threatened, and more like being warned, since he knew what was coming and only wanted to give you a heads up. He knows that being dismissed and having my posts discredited without them actually being addressed is a major scumtell of mine, and that I'm willing to call anybody out on it and reveal such blatant scumposting for what it is.

Second, I'm not afraid of going toe to toe with you or anybody else, especially if I can get some valuable information from it and bring certain truths to light, such as the fact that you don't have anything substantial case-wise.

The replace out IS indicative of alignment to me. And honestly, that's all I really give a damn about. I read you as scum--- ONE head of a slot, even. One of the others said they trusted me and the third didn't comment.

So that IS the entirety of your case, and YOU are the only one pushing it, which means that I addressed my original question to the right source. It is not too much to ask a player to provide analysis on the slot that they are accusing of being scum. Your refusal to do so speaks volumes about your actual case and your slot in general. It would have taken maybe 10 min. to do an ISO of both Mac and our hydra and give your thoughts on what was actually posted. Instead, you have sought to sling insults and discredit us without even addressing our concerns, which is way scummier than simply replacing out. In this regard, your excuse about not reading is crap. Simply put, if you are going to accuse someone of being scum, you better be prepared to back it up. If not, admit it is a gut read and move on so that the rest of us can continue scumhunting in peace.

-Bulba

P-edit: Rift, what did you think about Mac's TMT case? I thought it was actually pretty good, and I'm actually sorry that he wasn't able to keep on pushing it. Also, you had him as a town read earlier in the game. I can understand the read changing due to him not posting, but why was your slot convinced Mac was town near the beginning of the day?

[BulbaFenix]

@Rift: Talk to me about Orcinus.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Thoughts on the Dramonic wagon? You seemed to question it.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

The whole case on Dramonic is that he's active lurking and not saying anything of substance. As far as ProHawk goes, I don't think we'll be able to get him lynched today, therefore we're focusing on our other scumspects. I think we'll be able to make a better push on ProHawk's slot on d2.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

if i were scum, why would I even bother saying I hadn't read the thread? my other heads would just carry on

and for the record, if I was, i'd be powerfucking shadi right now because he'd be SO FUCKING EASY to mislynch

Can I get an explanation for this quote?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Mac IS bulba, you illiterate boob

Bulba is Bulbazak.

Because as part of a closed scum hydra, id have no need to pretend i havent read the game. i could just as easily sheep my heads. or not post at all, letting the others do the work. it wouldnt matter what my reads were since no one was asking for them when the other heads were posting. id just keep my mouth shut.

shadi is pretty blatantly an easy mislynch. i read goonies mafia and if i were scum here, id drive him into the ground. and this town would be all about lynching him.

Well... Seeing as how you mention it now, what are your reads exactly?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba can join the town pile for now for 832. His reads seem genuine, like they come from reading the thread instead of just sheeping consensus.

Don't be too complacent about bulba. My first game with him. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=27049 Night kill cardflips weren't revealed, so town didn't know when we'd hit our last possible day to pull out a win.

He won at endgame as SK. He was thought to be town by most players, including the mafia.

Don't be too complacent about bulba.

I don't mind caution, as long as it doesn't turn into a Burden of Proficiency case.

its a gut read based mostly on Macs replace out. i never pretended it was more than that, but the fact that bulba acts like i put together some huge case that he deftly refuted is flat out wrong. its a gut feeling and i never said otherwise.

All I've ever asked for is that you ISO both Mac and ourselves and give some analysis. You have refused to do so and are trying to dodge the issue by misrepping the entirety of our position. I don't think asking for actual analysis is too much, unless it interferes with you wanting to stay on the sidelines and only throw out crap reads.

I actually find the extreme pushes for individual reads RIGHT NOW NO EXCUSES to be kinda opportunistic. I'm mostly concerned about bulbafenrix doing this yesterday.

If you think that asking for actual gameplay analysis is scummy, this might not be your game. May I suggest Snakes and Ladders?

More importantly, why the fuck has everyone jumped on me? <_<

Probably because you're active lurking and only appear when someone is voting or suspecting you.

-Bulba

Crap.

[BulbaFenix]

*sigh* This is just not my day... Disregard that first quote.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Unvote

Vote StevieT92

I would still like that analysis.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

>:C

I don't want scum to be able to fakeclaim mason uncontested in the probable event that this isn't a scumgambit. Is nobody on the same wavelength as me here?

I think I get what you are getting at here. Personally, I feel that it might be a mafia/townie mason (because I am paranoid about that sort of deal) pairing. And you're right, it shouldn't go untested. But, we shouldn't tunnel vision it either.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

This is a normal game.

Bulba explained that part and has poked me again to remind me of that. From my past experience on other sites, it was normal for that sort of thing to occur every now and again.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba, please explain Stevie

StevieT92

: His reasons for voting and suspecting slots near the beginning of the day were bad, and I also didn't like how he said that no one should be townreading anybody so early in the game. It felt like he was trying to keep town from finding each other for as long as possible, and instead wanted them to focus on who he deigned as scum. His posts since then have not improved.

I'd also like to add his backpedaling when confronted on his townreading comment, as well as him taking potshots at players without taking stances or providing analysis.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Orcinus, I would appreciate some reasoning with your votes. Doing otherwise makes it difficult to discern your intentions.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

i am voting people who i think are scum

There still has to be reasoning why you think so.

I'm getting off the phone with Bulba now... He's at the library... Here's your headstart to run....

-Fenix

What are you like his little wench? This isn't the only time you have cried "Just wait till daddy gets home!!!"

It's true that Fenix is not as independent as I'd like and acts more like a subordinate than an equal in the hydra. It's something that we're working on. However, I do not like that your first action when confronting us is to attack the weak link.

Confrontation is no issue here, and your other head's idea of debate is to try and crush it with a boot and hope its squashed, which is nothing more than bully-tactics.

If asking questions, looking for motivation behind posts, and seeking to foster discussion is your idea of bully-tactics, then I'm going to squash as hard as I can.

My point was... I have meta with Crabd, plenty of it in fact, and you accuse me of not looking up meta?

If you used said meta to expand upon your point, I'd understand, but you did not. Instead you implied that Crabd was scum via meta, without looking up or using said meta. This is evident with how you phrase that opening question, where you used "if", which means that you hadn't done so yet. You then end with "Hmmm...", which makes the whole thing an implication of scumminess, rather than an actual question designed to uncover motivation.

I also was certainly not misrepresenting your case. I was however pointing out the fact that good scum will indeed genuinely scum-hunt like town. They can either forget that they are scum and proceed, or they can pretend that the game is multi-ball and attempt to find scum in that direction. Both scenarios, while not easily accomplished, are viable strategies that good scum are indeed capable of doing.

However, there should still be evidence that it is town scumhunting, rather than scum scumhunting. Do you see any evidence of this in BRO's posts?

You really

want that BRO mislynch

, don't you. I also like how you make sure that you mention it was someone else's idea, since you could just point to that later

should BRO flip town

.

Maybe you shouldn't include such dissonance in succeeding sentences if you don't want to be misunderstood... tho it's probably just my shoddy reading comprehension right Bulba?

I have different reads on both you (scum) and BRO (town), and I find the way you're pushing BRO to be very scummy, i.e. you're pushing for a BRO mislynch. However, even though I think that, I still don't know what BRO will flip, therefore I use the subjective "should" rather than the definite "when".

I also find it interesting that you start posting up a storm right after I call you scum. Speaking of which, Dramonic is getting the attention he deserves.

I would love to hear what your ideal "townie" would do right after a Bulba-Bully comes out with his accusatory-guns-of-flame.

Answering the questions and contributing to discussion would probably help, although town should also probably be more involved with the game instead of active lurking.

Simple. The reason why we voted Dramonic over ProHawk is because Dramonic is a viable wagon and ProHawk is not.

What is this? We have over a week before the deadline and you are worried about putting a vote on me because I am not a viable wagon? What does that even mean? If no one were to ever vote me, then I would never be a viable wagon... so your logic here has to be some sort of fallacy.

We had just replaced into the game and spent about half a week catching up, which means that we have not been a part of the actual flow of the game. Given this, it should be apparent that there are some scumspects we'll be able to get lynched d1, while there will be others we can't. You happen to be one of the lynches that I realized that we would not be able to get, therefore it is counterproductive to push your wagon today. I'd rather spend the rest of the day phase pushing the wagon of a more universal scumread than one that hardly anyone shares. Doing otherwise is anti-town and also foolish.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

It's true that Fenix is not as independent as I'd like and acts more like a subordinate than an equal in the hydra. It's something that we're working on. However, I do not like that your first action when confronting us is to attack the

weak link.

I would not want to hydra with you

Ever

Eh. I might get yelled at for it later. As I said, I'm trying to get him to play a more proactive role. Regardless, ProHawk's intent was to identify and attack weakness (The "just wait until daddy gets home" comment), which is more in line with scum intent. Do you agree or disagree with this?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

dramonic is my mason.

why should I vote a mason?

I'm confused on the wording of your question stubbs... Could you clarify a little better?

so why are you only now questioning me on my unvote

It wasn't a question. You didn't do it naturally, you did it to either spite me or get a reaction. Either way it was your way of making a post like Holliday's directly to me. It doesn't count when the cat's already out of the bag.

But really, you have already shown you aren't tentative with voting so you should throw down.

Why would he unvote just to get a reaction from you or to spite you?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

hehehheh
HhehAHHE
A

AHEHAHAEHAHAHH
A
A


WWHAT

WHATS THIS

BULBA IS REALLY TRYIGN TO PUSH US ON THAT HORSESHIT "THEYRE AFRAID TO BE LYNCHED" LINE?

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOURE UP AGAINST

I CAN

TATSE YOUR FEAR BULBA

I CAN TASTE YOUR FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN

Paranoia is setting in I can see.

Caught up and have snuck onto a computer. Disappointed with Fenix, as he was supposed to help me by getting me live reads while I read through the game. Anyway, here is the official reads list and catchup post:

Town

Rift Adrift

: 1 of 2 strong town reads from when I was initially skimming the thread before we replaced in. They are actively scumhunting, and all of their posts read genuine.

Calcifer

: 2nd of the strong town reads from initial skim. Same as Calcifer, only not as strong.

King Crabd

: All of their posts read as genuine. There is no attempt at fakery here.

Ankamius

: There is some genuine thought here. I was a little nervous about his mention of LYLO in #328, but I get the sense that he's the type of player to consider that as town.

DOMO

: Not as much of a gut read as the others. They appeal to the logic part of me, and they are actively scumhunting. Everything they do comes from town motivation. Therefore, they're town.

Metal Sonic

: Trust me, he's town. I wish he'd post more, though, without me having to tunnel him to death...

Baby Spice

: What little she's posted has consisted of actual scumhunting. I'd like to see more, but I'm willing to call her town for now.

BROseidon

: Everybody who thinks he's scum needs to have their heads examined. Calling out a stupid anti-town plan is not scummy. Self-voting is not scummy (contrary to popular opinion). Heck, in Voided's Nightless Mountainous game, there were 4 self votes (including myself). Guess what? They were all town. He's doing some genuine scumhunting here. He's town. Deal with it.

Null/Town

Zdenek

: I almost want to call him town. However, he's done a few things that I've never seen from him before when he was town in Voided's game. I want to observe him a little bit more first before I put him fully in the town pile.

TheIrishPope

: Fenix convinced me to put him more in the null section. Personally, I like him for town. I'm not sure I see the scum motivation in his posts. Regardless, he makes me laugh, so I'm not keen about lynching him anytime soon.

Null

Orcinus_theoriginal

: Not sure how to take this one. On the one hand, I like him for town, due to him actively scumhunting. On the other hand, I'm not agreeing with a lot of his reads, and he's been too eager lately to jump on some really fishy wagons. I think I'll need more time to sort this one out.

Serene

: Personally, I'd love to list this slot as town, not only because I liked the Newbie rage quit from their predecessor, but also because I like the idea of all the hydras being town together. However, I really do not like #646. Normally when I've seen town super secret hydras, they are not worried about being lynched should the heads become known, rather, they're worried about being NK'd. The fact that Serene said lynched suggests that they're not worried about the NK. I also do not like their push of Calcifer. The only reason they are null is because I see reasons why they could be town, and I originally wanted to put them as null/town. However, Fenix wanted to put them as scum. We compromised, hence the null.

The Goat

: Nothing much has been posted from this slot. The closest we get to anything alignment indicative is #461, which feels slightly town to me. Interested in what we get from his replacement.

TSO

: Honestly, I keep flip flopping on him. He'll post something I'll believe is scummy, such as some of his initial cases, or his attack of Metal Sonic, or his recent push for town cred. But then he'll post a bunch of things that are strongly town. I'll probably watch him and see what I think about him tomorrow.

Nero

: Eddie likes him for town. I have a bit of a scum lean on him. However, I'm not sure if this is due to actual scumminess or a difference in playstyle. He posts similarly to TIP, but he's not doing so to be funny. He doesn't explain any of his reads, he attacks players without basis, and I'm sure I've seen him arbitrarily sheeping at points (I need to check this one out later.). At best his play is anti-town. I'm just not sure if it's actually scummy.

?Null/Scum?

Shadi1337

: To be honest, I'm beginning to like him more, so he may move up before long. I just didn't like his flail earlier, as I didn't think that it felt like town flail. Fenix and I struggled real hard on his placement. Actually, screw it, he's plain null. Fenix, we can talk about it later.

Actual Null/Scum

StubbsKVM

: Fenix and I went back and forth on this one. Admittedly, it's a gut read. I don't think that a lot of his posts feel genuine. Definitely going to watch this slot as the day progresses.

Brian Hollywood

: Fenix fought for his placement closer to the scum pile. Brian hasn't posted anything game related. All of his posts have avoided what was actually happening at the time. I also don't buy his reaction to Zdenek's fake day kill, as that gambit is common enough that Brian's reaction could be faked (I've actually seen it at least twice before, and I'm relatively new to the site.).

Scum

TMTOLBTWNTOF

: I actually agree with our predecessor on this slot, although I get the feeling that Fenix is not convinced. TMT is active lurking. What he posts appears to be content at first glance, but it is actually saying nothing of importance.

Doc Holliday

: I don't like his blatant opportunism. I also feel that he and TIP are not on the same team, due to his #75 and TIP's response. If Doc is actually town, I'm actually going to take a second look at TIP.

StevieT92

: His reasons for voting and suspecting slots near the beginning of the day were bad, and I also didn't like how he said that no one should be townreading anybody so early in the game. It felt like he was trying to keep town from finding each other for as long as possible, and instead wanted them to focus on who he deigned as scum. His posts since then have not improved.

Dramonic

: His posts have contained absolutely no content. #734 feels more like knowledge than actual setup spec. He feels sure in his answer, where anybody speculating would use language that indicated that they were unsure or guessing.

ProHawk

: Post #10 was really bad, as has been repeatedly explained. However, I can understand why people are hesitant to use that as their only reasoning. His later posts, though, do not feel like town. They have a slimy quality to them, and it feels as if he's trying to manipulate people when he addresses them so that they say something that he can attack as scummy. He's scum and needs to be lynched as soon as possible. I'll be addressing some of his posts soon.

Going to address a few more recent posts before I go. Any questions?

-Bulba

Some quality scum tryharding up in this thread.


BOKO WO MITE

BOKO WO MITE

I LISTED READ ON EEEREYBODY IN DA CLUB.


PICK THESE APART AND YOU SEE THESE READS FOR THE SHALLOW SACKS OF CONTENT THEY REALLY ARE.

"dramonic has posted almost no content" = "THE GRASS IS FUCKING GREEN AND GUESS WHAT THE SKY IS BLUE"

and theres so much dissonance and excuses to be on the fence on about a 100 people its not even funny

this shit

needs

to BURN

VOTE: BULBAFENIX

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at dramonic's posts to see that, before the claim of the mason pairing, there is NOTHING that he is contributing as far as the hunt for scum goes. In my opinion, that is a common scummy way of playing. Lay low, dodge prods, throw in votes/minimal content here and there. Are you going to contribute to the hunt of scum or are you going to keep this up?

We are not lynching Bulba scum at the moment. We await are death at the hand's of him and his partners, and hope we pass into the other realm with warm wishes and the promise of Bulba's head at a future date.

For now, we will let Bulba lead us to his own partners

Unvote:
Vote: Stevie

As one who wants to stay in the good graces with a black mask is wont to do.

Grasping at straws here... But I have to ask about the final quote here because it makes no sense at all. What exactly are you trying to say?

IM TIRED OF THIS HIPPIE BULLSHIT

YOU LEAVE A TOWN TO ITS OWN ACCORD AND THEY GO AND DRIVE THEMSELVES OFF AF UCKING CLIFF

I SWEAR TO GOD WE CAN SHOUT THAT BULBA IS SCUM EVEN AS A CORPSE AND PEOPLE WOULD JUST SHRUG IT OFF AND KEEP ON KEEPING ON RIGHT INTO THEIR OWN HELL

BULBA

IS

A
SLIPPERY

SCUMFUCK

WHO WILL KILL US

AND WILL DO IT WITH A SMILE

Caps fluff post... *yawn* Are you even trying to play at this point?

[BulbaFenix]

Forgot to sign that last post

- Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Paranoia is setting in I can see.

BUT I THOUGHT I WAS SCUM?

ONLY FUCKING TOWN ARE PARANOID

YOU DISSONANT PIECE OF MAFIA

I think you're paranoid that we are seeing your slot as scummy.

Remember, we use the term "gently reminded of your humanity." Rehabilitation has certain negative implications that do not apply here.

You are a kind soul deep down,

please, remember yourself.

And remember you can only kill one scum at a time.

Tell me, what makes us so scummy to you??

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Tell me, what makes us so scummy to you??

Your opportunism in attacking what you viewed as a vulnerable head (an accusation you later went on to attack someone else with after doing this yourself)
Your constant "POST READS NOW READS NOW READS NOW THOSE AREN'T READS READS NOW" while ignoring other players who have done jack and or shit
Your endless "ohhh you just wait till bulba sees this" fuck you and your bulba
Accusing people of posting fluff while again ignoring people who do the same
Your attempt to use the meta of a player who ISN'T EVEN IN THE FUCKING GAME to justify your anything ("I've seen kuribo as town and" no fuck you)

and thats just off the top of my head really



when you get to hell, tell them you're not quite fucking sure if kuribo sent you

I'm accusing you of the fluff part because you're adding nothing to context or actively scum hunting, which town does. Bulba is not accusing you of that. Are we REALLY ignoring players who haven't done jack/shit? I don't think so. I know how my partner plays and have danced against him when we sat on opposite ends of the table twice. When he has his sites set on someone, he's like a bloodhound with a scent that won't quit till it finds what its looking for. I've privately talked to Bulba about the meta thing and honestly, that's all speculation from his end. The "weak head" part we discussed earlier today in private. That has been sorted out.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Except you DO give nero a free pass for doing jack shit:

Nero: Eddie likes him for town. I have a bit of a scum lean on him. However, I'm not sure if this is due to actual scumminess or a difference in playstyle. He posts similarly to TIP, but he's not doing so to be funny. He doesn't explain any of his reads, he attacks players without basis, and I'm sure I've seen him arbitrarily sheeping at points (I need to check this one out later.). At best his play is anti-town. I'm just not sure if it's actually scummy.

You call that a "free pass"?

What has Nero or TOTPBWhatever contributed?

Dram has contributed many dramlike things.

To accuse otherwise, to paint otherwise

You are a scum artist.

He was asking for Nero or TMT... Not sure why you would even mention dram in there.

Why would he unvote just to get a reaction from you or to spite you?

No clue, should ask him. It just seems like it fits his personality.

Oh, while I am here, I can't seem to find your user on MS, could you link me some games I can look at?

You'll have to wait on Bulba to get back to you on that one. I'm not as up to snuff as he is on MS.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I need your meta Fenix... is this your first game?

First hydra game. Most of my other games are off site. How many you want and which style do you want?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

You call that a "free pass"?

The part where you called him town, then explained why he's scummy, then said you weren't sure it was scummy?


Yep, looks like a free pass to me.

I read it one way, my partner reads it another and we met in the middle for a null read. It's called compromise! No one gets a free pass, I promise you that.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I would like a town game and a scum game please.

http://midnighttcg.com/showthread.php?8012-Clue-Mafia < Clue Mafia from MTCG
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26550 < Newbie 1349 Bad Apples game

Happy reading.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

So my question. Are you all still voting on that townread on page 2 comment? Or is there something else I'm not seeing?

That's part of what made me initially suspect him as scum, as well as his 3 scum reads in #44, which read as fake and sloppily thrown together. However, it was his lack of scumhunting and his posts only designed to stir the pot that cemented my scumread.

BULBA IS REALLY TRYIGN TO PUSH US ON THAT HORSESHIT "THEYRE AFRAID TO BE LYNCHED" LINE?

I'm not trying to push it, since I only mentioned it once, and in a catchup post at that.

Caught up and have snuck onto a computer. Disappointed with Fenix, as he was supposed to help me by getting me live reads while I read through the game. Anyway, here is the official reads list and catchup post:

Town

Rift Adrift

: 1 of 2 strong town reads from when I was initially skimming the thread before we replaced in. They are actively scumhunting, and all of their posts read genuine.

Calcifer

: 2nd of the strong town reads from initial skim. Same as Calcifer, only not as strong.

King Crabd

: All of their posts read as genuine. There is no attempt at fakery here.

Ankamius

: There is some genuine thought here. I was a little nervous about his mention of LYLO in #328, but I get the sense that he's the type of player to consider that as town.

DOMO

: Not as much of a gut read as the others. They appeal to the logic part of me, and they are actively scumhunting. Everything they do comes from town motivation. Therefore, they're town.

Metal Sonic

: Trust me, he's town. I wish he'd post more, though, without me having to tunnel him to death...

Baby Spice

: What little she's posted has consisted of actual scumhunting. I'd like to see more, but I'm willing to call her town for now.

BROseidon

: Everybody who thinks he's scum needs to have their heads examined. Calling out a stupid anti-town plan is not scummy. Self-voting is not scummy (contrary to popular opinion). Heck, in Voided's Nightless Mountainous game, there were 4 self votes (including myself). Guess what? They were all town. He's doing some genuine scumhunting here. He's town. Deal with it.

Null/Town

Zdenek

: I almost want to call him town. However, he's done a few things that I've never seen from him before when he was town in Voided's game. I want to observe him a little bit more first before I put him fully in the town pile.

TheIrishPope

: Fenix convinced me to put him more in the null section. Personally, I like him for town. I'm not sure I see the scum motivation in his posts. Regardless, he makes me laugh, so I'm not keen about lynching him anytime soon.

Null

Orcinus_theoriginal

: Not sure how to take this one. On the one hand, I like him for town, due to him actively scumhunting. On the other hand, I'm not agreeing with a lot of his reads, and he's been too eager lately to jump on some really fishy wagons. I think I'll need more time to sort this one out.

Serene

: Personally, I'd love to list this slot as town, not only because I liked the Newbie rage quit from their predecessor, but also because I like the idea of all the hydras being town together. However, I really do not like #646. Normally when I've seen town super secret hydras, they are not worried about being lynched should the heads become known, rather, they're worried about being NK'd. The fact that Serene said lynched suggests that they're not worried about the NK. I also do not like their push of Calcifer. The only reason they are null is because I see reasons why they could be town, and I originally wanted to put them as null/town. However, Fenix wanted to put them as scum. We compromised, hence the null.

The Goat

: Nothing much has been posted from this slot. The closest we get to anything alignment indicative is #461, which feels slightly town to me. Interested in what we get from his replacement.

TSO

: Honestly, I keep flip flopping on him. He'll post something I'll believe is scummy, such as some of his initial cases, or his attack of Metal Sonic, or his recent push for town cred. But then he'll post a bunch of things that are strongly town. I'll probably watch him and see what I think about him tomorrow.

Nero

: Eddie likes him for town. I have a bit of a scum lean on him. However, I'm not sure if this is due to actual scumminess or a difference in playstyle. He posts similarly to TIP, but he's not doing so to be funny. He doesn't explain any of his reads, he attacks players without basis, and I'm sure I've seen him arbitrarily sheeping at points (I need to check this one out later.). At best his play is anti-town. I'm just not sure if it's actually scummy.

?Null/Scum?

Shadi1337

: To be honest, I'm beginning to like him more, so he may move up before long. I just didn't like his flail earlier, as I didn't think that it felt like town flail. Fenix and I struggled real hard on his placement. Actually, screw it, he's plain null. Fenix, we can talk about it later.

Actual Null/Scum

StubbsKVM

: Fenix and I went back and forth on this one. Admittedly, it's a gut read. I don't think that a lot of his posts feel genuine. Definitely going to watch this slot as the day progresses.

Brian Hollywood

: Fenix fought for his placement closer to the scum pile. Brian hasn't posted anything game related. All of his posts have avoided what was actually happening at the time. I also don't buy his reaction to Zdenek's fake day kill, as that gambit is common enough that Brian's reaction could be faked (I've actually seen it at least twice before, and I'm relatively new to the site.).

Scum

TMTOLBTWNTOF

: I actually agree with our predecessor on this slot, although I get the feeling that Fenix is not convinced. TMT is active lurking. What he posts appears to be content at first glance, but it is actually saying nothing of importance.

Doc Holliday

: I don't like his blatant opportunism. I also feel that he and TIP are not on the same team, due to his #75 and TIP's response. If Doc is actually town, I'm actually going to take a second look at TIP.

StevieT92

: His reasons for voting and suspecting slots near the beginning of the day were bad, and I also didn't like how he said that no one should be townreading anybody so early in the game. It felt like he was trying to keep town from finding each other for as long as possible, and instead wanted them to focus on who he deigned as scum. His posts since then have not improved.

Dramonic

: His posts have contained absolutely no content. #734 feels more like knowledge than actual setup spec. He feels sure in his answer, where anybody speculating would use language that indicated that they were unsure or guessing.

ProHawk

: Post #10 was really bad, as has been repeatedly explained. However, I can understand why people are hesitant to use that as their only reasoning. His later posts, though, do not feel like town. They have a slimy quality to them, and it feels as if he's trying to manipulate people when he addresses them so that they say something that he can attack as scummy. He's scum and needs to be lynched as soon as possible. I'll be addressing some of his posts soon.

Going to address a few more recent posts before I go. Any questions?

-Bulba

Some quality scum tryharding up in this thread.


BOKO WO MITE

BOKO WO MITE

I LISTED READ ON EEEREYBODY IN DA CLUB.


PICK THESE APART AND YOU SEE THESE READS FOR THE SHALLOW SACKS OF CONTENT THEY REALLY ARE.

"dramonic has posted almost no content" = "THE GRASS IS FUCKING GREEN AND GUESS WHAT THE SKY IS BLUE"

and theres so much dissonance and excuses to be on the fence on about a 100 people its not even funny

this shit

needs

to BURN

VOTE: BULBAFENIX

That's my catchup reads post, which I do in every game I replace in. I wasn't trying to push anything in particular, simply stating on what my thoughts are on the game and the various slots after replacing in and reading through the entirety of the thread.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at dramonic's posts to see that, before the claim of the mason pairing, there is NOTHING that he is contributing as far as the hunt for scum goes.

What has Nero or TOTPBWhatever contributed?

Absolutely nothing, which is why I personally have varying degrees of scumreads on them.

Tell me, what makes us so scummy to you??

Your opportunism in attacking what you viewed as a vulnerable head (an accusation you later went on to attack someone else with after doing this yourself)

I didn't set out to attack any one head on purpose. He was simply the one that responded. My questions were to your hydra in general, as I actually could care less who's in it.

Your constant "POST READS NOW READS NOW READS NOW THOSE AREN'T READS READS NOW"

Once again, that's a complete misrepresentation of my posts. All I've asked for you to do is ISO the players that have made up my slot and to give analysis, which you have refused to do. I dislike how you continue to dodge this issue and misrep me in an attempt to show them as scummy.

while ignoring other players who have done jack and or shit

Who have I ignored?

Your endless "ohhh you just wait till bulba sees this" fuck you and your bulba

Hydra dissonence is not scummy. As far as that issue is concerned, we have discussed it at length, and it has been taken care of.

Accusing people of posting fluff while again ignoring people who do the same

Who have I ignored?

Your attempt to use the meta of a player who ISN'T EVEN IN THE FUCKING GAME to justify your anything ("I've seen kuribo as town and" no fuck you)

Rift said, "Hey, it's Kuribo!", and given the posting style, I believed it. If I was wrong, then it was an honest mistake and all points dependent on that should be disregarded. However, that mistake would still not be alignment indicative.

Now does anybody else have any other questions, or am I going to be forced to read peoples' minds?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Who have I ignored?

metal sonic--- by his own admission--- has posted absolutely shit


and you call him town while directly addressing him like, what? twice?

I've played with Metal Sonic before. This is his town game, although I did say in my catchup post that I wanted to see him post more. He's a decent scumhunter when he puts his mind to it.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Have you played with Baby Spice and found that that's town game?

The only game I've played with BS is currently ongoing. Therefore, I have no idea what BS-town looks like.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Okay, because I didn't really get why there's so many players voting or suspecting Stevie, I ISOed him to see if I missed anything.

Scum suspect #2 is BROseidan for making a town read on page 2.

can you tell me how this is scummy and how this doesn't work in reverse?

Because in the beginning of the game a good town is supposed to be suspicious of everyone. It should take more than 2 pages of fluff/RVS for you to determine that someone is a townie.

Scumhunting, on the other hand, is always encouraged.

skimmed stuff because im lazy and talking to a friend in the library

i never said don't townread, i said you shouldn't have a townread by page two. do you get the difference and why i think that might be.

unvote, vote:nero

for the 2 back to back votes with no analysis or reason for the switch.

I think I get what he's trying to say, he just put it out there in a bad way. I suppose he means it's impossible to be certain about someone being town on page 2?

good work comrades, pile the votes on stevie. if required, i will hardclaim my role to get him lynched.

Just re-posting this quote to remind you all of what a scum Nero is. I think BROseidon is probably the best, most agreed-upon lynch target today. Will ISO him for my next post. I'm not going to move my vote off of him, but I will definitely hammer him.

I've seen one post where he said he still had to ISO BRO, but he never actually did it. I'm not sure I get that last line. "I will definitely hammer him." How can you hammer someone if you're already voting for him? Don't get it.

So my expected internet problems have finally manifested themselves. I am too busy to read 17 pages right now but I will try to get to Starbucks later tonight. Expect a post tomorrow at the latest.

Regards,
Stevie

This is his last post. Still nothing on BRO.


So my question. Are you all still voting on that townread on page 2 comment? Or is there something else I'm not seeing?

Why isn't anyone answering?

So my question. Are you all still voting on that townread on page 2 comment? Or is there something else I'm not seeing?

That's part of what made me initially suspect him as scum, as well as his 3 scum reads in #44, which read as fake and sloppily thrown together. However, it was his lack of scumhunting and his posts only designed to stir the pot that cemented my scumread.

-Bulba

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Bulbafenix, why does that make him your biggest scumread?

We never said that Stevie was our biggest scumread. ProHawk is. However, we realize that it will be impossible to get a ProHawk lynch today. Therefore, we are voting for Stevie, the scumread with the biggest wagon, while we engage with everyone else, especially ProHawk.

but also because I like the idea of all the hydras being town together.

This is weird and I have no idea why you said this.

I have strong townreads on you and Rift. DOMO is major scumhunting, which makes him a townread. We're town. If Serene is town, that would make every hydra in this game town, and that possibility intrigues and excites me, if only for the reason that it would allow for the possibility of a hydra town bloc. And I find that idea to be awesome.

Normally when I've seen town super secret hydras, they are not worried about being lynched should the heads become known, rather, they're worried about being NK'd. The fact that Serene said lynched suggests that they're not worried about the NK.

But they're worried about scum lynching them, meaning do you think they are worried about being bussed?

It takes 13 to lynch, and we have 6 scum at most, and there are no plurality lynches. With that in mind, why would they be afraid of being lynched by scum, since scum do not have the power to enforce it? Unless they thought that maybe town would want to policy lynch them if we found out who made up the hydra?

Honestly, I keep flip flopping on him. He'll post something I'll believe is scummy, such as some of his initial cases, or his attack of Metal Sonic, or his recent push for town cred. But then he'll post a bunch of things that are strongly town. I'll probably watch him and see what I think about him tomorrow.

Better yet, you can show us the scummy things and show us the townie things. Maybe it will help you decide for yourselves, but at the least it'll show us where you're coming from.

I'll do some in-depth analysis tomorrow. I had a busy day today and simply don't feel like doing it right now. I would like to point out, though, that the whole point of the catchup post was to give my general thoughts on the game and its players, and as such, is not as in depth.

I almost want to call him town. However, he's done a few things that I've never seen from him before when he was town in Voided's game. I want to observe him a little bit more first before I put him fully in the town pile.

His play here looks nothing like it did in Voided. Why are you reading him as town?

To be honest, I didn't pay that much attention to him in Voided, as I had an incredibly strong townread on his slot due to BT. The highlights of his play in my mind are: "I haven't read your stuff. You post walls. You are scum." I do remember that he did do some genuine scumhunting in that game, which he is doing here as well. The differences that I saw were what kept me from putting him fully in the town pile, but I'm thinking that they're more due to the different circumstances between the games, rather than based on alignment.

I don't like his blatant opportunism. I also feel that he and TIP are not on the same team, due to his #75 and TIP's response. If Doc is actually town, I'm actually going to take a second look at TIP.

I don't like this at all. Why does #75 & response make one of them scum?

Doc made a post that was blatantly opportunistic, given the attention on TIP at the time, that tried to paint TIP as scum due to his play in another game. That by itself is scummy. Then TIP makes a post that says, "Don't listen to Doc." Which I also found scummy. I really don't see them as partners. Therefore, that leaves 2 possibilities: 1.) Doc is scum and was being opportunistic and trying to incriminate TIP via a previous game. TIP is town that thinks that the rest of the town might fall for it and is trying to prevent it. 2.) Doc is town who is trying to use TIP's meta to show TIP as scummy. TIP, as scum, panics and says, "Don't listen to Doc."

VOTE: BulbaFenix
Scuuuum

Are you planning on posting original content anytime soon?

The whole case on Dramonic is that he's active lurking and not saying anything of substance. As far as ProHawk goes, I don't think we'll be able to get him lynched today, therefore we're focusing on our other scumspects. I think we'll be able to make a better push on ProHawk's slot on d2.

-Bulba

on page 40 and this reads as scum to me.

What about it do you find scummy?

Bulba, please explain Stevie

StevieT92

: His reasons for voting and suspecting slots near the beginning of the day were bad, and I also didn't like how he said that no one should be townreading anybody so early in the game. It felt like he was trying to keep town from finding each other for as long as possible, and instead wanted them to focus on who he deigned as scum. His posts since then have not improved.

I'd also like to add his backpedaling when confronted on his townreading comment, as well as him taking potshots at players without taking stances or providing analysis.

-Bulba

lol @ backpedaling.

lol @ how having a different idea about scumhunting theory makes you scum somehow

lol @ my wagon

You haven't actually addressed my actual points. Also, how can you have a different idea about scumhunting theory if you're not actually scumhunting?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

and because "i'm not kuribo" is a part of his shitcase on bulba

and because bulba is town

why is bulba town and why does his shitcase matter when he's not really pushing it anymore?[/quote]

I know he's got a lot to catch up on and will do so in time. I do expect a phone call and a catch up post from him today at SOME point.

I'm not sure I like the Calc wagon, not really receiving those overly scum vibes from him/her.

Nor am I. He/She is active hunting and asking questions (if everyone checks out the hydra's ISO). So, I want to know why the people that are voting him are voting him...

No.

i know our reads clash a lot in hydra

but this is getting ridiculous

talk to me about why you think bulba is scum

and nacho isn't

In brief, I initially read Mac as town and wound up changing my mind in part due to Mac and in part due to Syr's thoughts. Bulba's early posts pinged hard. Their push on serene looked even worse than yours did.

Much like my read on you, my read on Calcifer (which is mostly based on Nacho) is a shaky slight town.

Exactly what, might I ask, within Mac's post changed your mind?

P-Edit: What had you scumreading mac, Orc?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Nero can you please fake claim a guilty on TMTURIYTURIOF? We all know he's the Godfather. No one in this rat-infested temple can find their ballwzzz to take the most simple and obvious decision.

i'll do it after we lynch calcifer

bulb: calcifer is scum because nacho meta. mac is scum because he seemed very disinterested and quiet and useless which i typically associate with his scumplay. why do you even care why i was scumreading mac

Because asking questions is the only way to get answers about things. Also, Nacho meta? I'm not as well versed as my partner is where Nacho is concerned. Mind tl;dring me on that?

P-Edit:

I know he's got a lot to catch up on and will do so in time. I do expect a phone call and a catch up post from him today at SOME point.

jesus christ

fery we gotta learn from these people

they

call

each other

Does no one use the telephone anymore ????? Besides, that's about the ONLY way we can talk to one another on a consistent basis about everything and we have known each other irl for a few years now.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Because asking questions is the only way to get answers about things. Also, Nacho meta? I'm not as well versed as my partner is where Nacho is concerned. Mind tl;dring me on that?

Nacho was obvtown by the second page whenever he enters the game as town

last time i had doubts about nacho I was correct

He is not giving me the town play i know and love

I've been stepping back and waiting for it to happen but it never did

Yes I fucking know that asking questions=getting answers. WHY do you want an answer? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Nope. Just asking you to specify. That's all.

[BulbaFenix]

Hey PROHAWK, what did you find within those games that I submitted to you?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Hey PROHAWK, what did you find within those games that I submitted to you?

-Fenix

Maybe you missed this?

So ultimately... meta-searching on Fenix left BulbaFenix leaning more town although

what I was looking for was fairly inconclusive.

Town-Fenix is quite a bit less winded than scum-Fenix from what I read. What concerned me was his lack of response to my attack below.

What are you like his little wench? This isn't the only time you have cried "Just wait till daddy gets home!!!"

My first inclination was scum trying to avoid a fight, however reading from Fenix's game showed he is fairly non-confrontational in general... so it might not actually be what I had originally thought.

I did miss that. Thank you, ProHawk

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I have strong townreads on you and Rift. DOMO is major scumhunting, which makes him a townread. We're town. If Serene is town, that would make every hydra in this game town, and that possibility intrigues and excites me, if only for the reason that it would allow for the possibility of a hydra town bloc. And I find that idea to be awesome.

You missed a hydra.

King Crabd is a strong townread as well.

However, we realize that it will be impossible to get a ProHawk lynch today.

No lynch is impossible if you sell it hard enough, and I'm certainly listening.

We replaced into the middle of the day, and reading through the thread, I judged that the atmosphere was not right to secure a ProHawk lynch. Currently, I like what I'm getting from him, and I want to interact some more.

It takes 13 to lynch, and we have 6 scum at most, and there are no plurality lynches. With that in mind, why would they be afraid of being lynched by scum, since scum do not have the power to enforce it? Unless they thought that maybe town would want to policy lynch them if we found out who made up the hydra?

I thought the assertion was stupid but I didn't think it was serious is what I was getting at. I don't quite understand how you come to the conclusion that
"being afraid of being lynched by scum is a scumclaim", though.

I never said it was a scumclaim. I just thought it was an odd bit of phrasing, and it kept us from putting him in our town pile.

Not sure what to think of Calcifer's more recent posts. Can someone tell me if this is typical for town Mastin?

Reserving judgement on Cephrir until I see him post more. I did like some of his points in his catchup posts.

Mason claims?

...I'll believe it for now. I assume that there are only 2 masons?

UNVOTE:

Will reread to decide whether to jump onto Shadi, Doc, or Stevie.

5 days later...

Prod received.

I don't want to catch up on the 20 or so pages I'm behind. Someone pls summarize.

Or, we could just vote this and save the trouble.

Prohawk I don't know what you are trying to accomplish with that post that's missing a Calcifer vote.

BRO is a waaay better lynch.

Based on this post? I disagree.

Got my interest in Mafia back. Will post that TSO analysis sometime tomorrow.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Based on this post? I disagree.

Lets see... you have BRO who unvoted, didn't re-vote despite having other scum-leads, said he was going to read the thread to get a better idea of who to go for... starts fishing around to see exactly how many masons there are which he subsequently gets heat for, then splits to return five days past the point of where he said he was going to re-evaluate the thread with no re-evaluating done... and no, he at least wasn't too busy to be active on-site, so what exactly isn't scummy about that?

I'm thinking it's the way the analysis post is worded... But, don't take my word for it. I know he'll respond more in-depth later.

YES YES

You're scummy as town, we get it


The horse is dead, kindly stop beating him Shadi

Yeah Shadi... Leave the horse beating to Serene

StevieT92 (4)- Nero, The Goat, BulbaFenix, StubbsKVM
Calcifer (4)- orcinus_theoriginal, Serene, Zdenek, Metal Sonic
BROseidon (3)- ProHawk, Brian Hollywood, DOMO
Shadi1337 (3)- T S O, Cephrir, KingCrabd
BulbaFenix (2)- dramonic, Calcifer

Ok then let's analyse the VC.

Stevie wagon makes some sense. He's not my preferred lynch, but I can see why he's getting votes. Those on his wagon don't lose or gain town points for voting for him.

Calcifer wagon makes no sense to me. It seems like it's purely based on nacho meta. It's day one of a big game, nacho is less dominant head of hydra, a meta lynch is weak imo. Those on his wagon lose town points. Except serene, obviously. Serene is just awful. Orc isn't awful, so I'm starting to get concerned about him, but I'm more concerned about the others on this wagon, zdenek in particular.

BRO wagon is good, those on it get +town points from me.

Shadi wagon is iffy, I'm gonna ISO TSO and kingcrab shortly. As for cephrir, well he has BRO as a scumread if I recall correctly, yet he's voting for shadi. Forgive me if I've missed something, but from what I read of shadi's ISO earlier, he's either town working his ass off to find scum, or scum working his ass off to look like town. I don't see a great deal of scumminess in shadi's posts. Meanwhile, BRO is legit scummy, at best he's liability town, at worst he's scum blatantly rolefishing and getting away with it. Cephrir's lack of BRO vote is strange since he's scumreading him. It reeks of distancing without having the testicles to bus him.

Bulba wagon is fine, I've said already I think calcifer is town, and dram is obviously town, so this wagon is clean imo.

Ok so having seen the VC, I like cephrir and zdenek even less than I did before, and metal sonic and orc need to be looked at. kingcrab and TSO are people I need to ISO.

What is your analysis on the players who aren't voting, Domo?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Nero, town role cop isn't usually a one shot thing. Unless the mod is pulling some new things out of the hat this game. Anyway

Unvote
Vote Nero

- Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Can someone tell me if this is typical for town Mastin?

I'd also like to hear from the Koopa so I can get a better handle on that slot.

Vote StevieT92

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Well it's poor, imo, to not even consider the NKs when making such an early vote.

Nonsense? Why is it nonsense? You are indeed in my scum pool, and you are indeed voting without an explanation. And I am indeed thinking it's sketchy. So it's far from nonsene.

This FOS at zdenek is equally directed at bulba, by the way. I don't want anyone to think I'm singling zdenek out for something bulba has done too.

And don't worry, he'll respond in due time. If I recall correctly during our conversation, we both agree that Stevie is still a person of interest on our scum list. After having interaction with ProHawk, we both came together and agreed that we were getting a town vibe from him.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Any reasons for voting Stevie? Any info of any kind?

See d1. Also if Stevie flips scum, I'm coming after you so hard. That statement can essentially be translated to: "My scumbuddy's under fire so early, and I don't know why!"

Looks like we're multiball, if either were vigged then we have a bad vig imo.

Actually, I assumed that TIP was a vig. kill, as it doesn't serve mafia or SK to kill him (chaos), and I can see a vig. being unsure about his alignment.

Also, if we discover this is multiball, DOMO needs to be speed lynched, because this would essentially be him showing an overeagerness to gain towncred by hunting the other team.

I see zdenek and bulba have both voted and neither look like they have considered how the night kills might effect their reads. There's some basic town motivation lacking right there. Neither explain their stevie vote, or comment on the mislynch which they were both part of. Dodgy as fuck.

The kills didn't tell me anything. TIP looked like an obv. vig. kill, and ProHawk was clearly starting to hit his stride at the end of d1, so it may just be a case of scum wanting avoid dealing with a sharp scumhunter. Besides, initial reactions to NKs are classic WIFOM, and scum tend to react to them a lot as a way to look town.

This FOS at zdenek is equally directed at bulba, by the way. I don't want anyone to think I'm singling zdenek out for something bulba has done too.

So you realize you are selective scumhunting, and then go "Oh, and I'm also FoSing Bulba." so that you don't get called out for selective scumhunting?

Anyway, I finished those ISOs, and hawk had a boner for BRO and kingcrabd. TIP was throwing a lot of suspicion around and seemed like obvtown to me so that kill makes a lot of sense. But the hawk kill is interesting. If BRO had a hand in it, then I would naturally question why I didn't get killed instead. Maybe prohawk was closer than me. BRO scumflip + hawk NK looks bad for kingcrabd imo, and probably good for cephrir, since doc was my other main scumread from d1.

So much WIFOM...

Unvote

Vote DOMO

[BulbaFenix]

-Bulba (in case you didn't know)

[BulbaFenix]

I'm selective scumhunting? You and zdenek are the only two people, at that point, who had thrown a reasonless vote down. How exactly is that selective scumhunting? Who's my vote on bulba? Yeah, neither you nor zdenek. Thus, I'm not exactly pursuing this one line of investigation.

I wouldn't exactly call our vote reasonless. Our hydra has thought Stevie was scum since d1, and we've explained why.

As for the selective scumhunting, you were solely pursuing Zdenek, until you realized that you had only been pursuing him, when you threw out "And FoS on Bulba too, in case anyone thinks I'm only singling out one person.". This reads more like scum protecting his butt, rather than town pushing his scumspects.

And if we're multiball, I get speedlynched? That sounds like someone lining up a mislynch after it becomes obvious.

The problem was that we have no clue that it's multiball, since SK or a vig. are viable options as well, in fact, in many ways they make more sense. However, you were quick to jump on the "We're in multiball" train, which tells me that you're likely scum on one of the teams who is eager to make his scumhunting the other team look as towny as possible.

-Bulba

P-edit: Look, fake paranoia and deflection!

[BulbaFenix]

Blast it, Bulba, sniped me

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Vote Count 1-10

(as of Post 1288)

BulbaFenix (5)

- Calcifer, Rift Adrift, Serene, dramonic, TheIrishPope

StevieT92 (4)

- Nero, The Goat, Zdenek, BulbaFenix

BROseidon (3)

- ProHawk, Brian Hollywood, DOMO

Shadi1337 (1)

- T S O

Zdenek (1)

- StevieT92

Nero (1)

- Doc Holliday

The Goat (1)

- TMTOLBTWNTOF

StubbsKVM (1)

- Baby Spice

Not Voting (7)

- BROseidon, Ankamius, orcinus_theoriginal, StubbsKVM, Shadi1337, KingCrabd, Metal Sonic

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch

Deadline:

Wednesday, July 8, 2013 at 3pm Central Time.

Replacing:

No one

Prods:

Doc Holliday (ongoing)

V/LAs:

None

Vote Count 1-11

(as of Post 1328)

BulbaFenix (5)

- Calcifer, Rift Adrift, Serene, dramonic, TheIrishPope

StevieT92 (5)

- Nero, The Goat, Zdenek, BulbaFenix, StubbsKVM

BROseidon (3)

- ProHawk, Brian Hollywood, DOMO

Shadi1337 (1)

- T S O

Zdenek (1)

- StevieT92

Nero (1)

- Doc Holliday

The Goat (1)

- TMTOLBTWNTOF

StubbsKVM (1)

- Baby Spice

Not Voting (6)

- BROseidon, Ankamius, orcinus_theoriginal, Shadi1337, KingCrabd, Metal Sonic

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch

Deadline:

Wednesday, July 8, 2013 at 3pm Central Time.

Replacing:

Doc Holliday

Prods:

T S O
The Goat

V/LAs:

None

I'm selective scumhunting? You and zdenek are the only two people, at that point, who had thrown a reasonless vote down. How exactly is that selective scumhunting? Who's my vote on bulba? Yeah, neither you nor zdenek. Thus, I'm not exactly pursuing this one line of investigation.

And if we're multiball, I get speedlynched? That sounds like someone lining up a mislynch after it becomes obvious.

vote - bulbafenix

I'm happy with you, BRO or zdenek. I hope the dayvig wasn't a gambit, though I totally expect it to be.

Reasons for both those votes would be abundantly clear to anyone who was paying attention.

Thanks for reminding me to look at the Bulba wagon from yesterday. They still don't look bad to me at all.

Quoted the votes from day 1 where we had a wagon. TIP flipped town and the only one who stayed on the wagon was calcifer.

[BulbaFenix]

Actually BulbaFenix's 2187 is so opportunistic, that there is little chance that I'd vote for DOMO today after that.

What about it was opportunistic?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Actually BulbaFenix's 2187 is so opportunistic, that there is little chance that I'd vote for DOMO today after that.

What about it was opportunistic?

-Bulba

DOMO: Not as much of a gut read as the others. They appeal to the logic part of me, and they are actively scumhunting. Everything they do comes from town motivation. Therefore, they're town.

I have strong townreads on you and Rift. DOMO is major scumhunting, which makes him a townread.

Then in that post you cast suspicion on him for questionable reasons.

That's because they posted a series of legitimately scummy posts.

There are a lot of players in this game who need to die.

Yes, they're called scum. Let's not get too crazy in the PL department.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

"Been trying to get reads to settle in my head the past couple of days."

For the past two days I've been lurking hard and have no reads whatsoever, sorry. I've even been scum-QT-prod. My head is dizzy and overly medicated and I have spells of amnesia and uncontrollable epileptic fits.

"I looked around a bit and didn't find a whole lot; not really that difficult with all the nonsense in the thread."

It's not my fault, it's your fault.

"The game's still moving pretty damn fast"

Being scum makes me lazy, don't expect reads anytime until the Apocalypse.

"but a lot of it is just talk that isn't really alignment-indicative either way"

Buddhascum says: "There is no good nor evil, only reincarnation into slime molds."

"I'll probably look into ProHawk sometime tomorrow to see if anyone's interactions with him stand out."

And by "probably" I mean "never" and I hope you'll soon forget that I made this promise. See you in LYLO, suckers!

Putting words in someone's mouth... Ok. I'll remember this.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

"Been trying to get reads to settle in my head the past couple of days."

For the past two days I've been lurking hard and have no reads whatsoever, sorry. I've even been scum-QT-prod. My head is dizzy and overly medicated and I have spells of amnesia and uncontrollable epileptic fits.

"I looked around a bit and didn't find a whole lot; not really that difficult with all the nonsense in the thread."

It's not my fault, it's your fault.

"The game's still moving pretty damn fast"

Being scum makes me lazy, don't expect reads anytime until the Apocalypse.

"but a lot of it is just talk that isn't really alignment-indicative either way"

Buddhascum says: "There is no good nor evil, only reincarnation into slime molds."

"I'll probably look into ProHawk sometime tomorrow to see if anyone's interactions with him stand out."

And by "probably" I mean "never" and I hope you'll soon forget that I made this promise. See you in LYLO, suckers!

Putting words in someone's mouth... Ok. I'll remember this.

-Fenix

You disbelieve the mason claim?

Personally, I do not. Bulba and I have been going back and forth on this in our conversations.

No he's just trying to throw fucking dirt on us for sinister long term.

Typical scum response.

#3 back, why the fuck can't we lynch Fenix again? I know there are so many easy mislynches to roll through, but we GOT our trim the fat lynch out of the way with Nero.

Today its real scum like Cacifer or Fenix. My vote's for Fenix

I'd love to see your attempt at a case instead of just sitting here making noise.

Let's not forget how blatantly scummy Ankamius has been both days.

Are we reading the same game here?

Whenever a game moves really fast, I get lost really easily. It takes me a few in-game days to be calibrated in a large game.

I'd say that too if I were scum. It would help me evade scrutiny.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Personally, I do not. Bulba and I have been going back and forth on this in our conversations.

Looks like fake hydra-dissonance.

This is laughable.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Calcifier seems off compared to last round, or at least not the "usual" Calcifier

Are you soft pushing a Calcifer lynch now?

Why do people still see Serene as strong town after what happened last round? He intentionally fucked someone he "knew" was town over when another lynch was still possible (granted, under much pressure but possible) I guess a wagon after Nero's would have been more suspicious as it seems like vote-sniping but the result should have been better on a possible mafia, right?

Translation: "Hey, we had a mislynch d1. Let's get another one by lynching the wagon's perpetrator!" Just going to state for the record: Serene is likely town for the mason claim. He is a troll, yes, but he's still likely town. I still don't disagree with the Nero lynch, since that was a policy lynch that we desperately needed to bring order to the game.

I used to support the Stevie wagon but I'm really not sure anymore, now it just seems like we're hunting his ass because of very early r1 derps that didn't last forever iirc. I guess he wouldn't be the worst to lynch, though.

Translation: "I don't want you to lynch my scum buddy, but if I have to, I'll totally bus him."

lol tip and prohawk dying

funny

good thing only VTs died

What is this?

Personally, I do not. Bulba and I have been going back and forth on this in our conversations.

Looks like fake hydra-dissonance.

What makes it fake? Fenix doesn't think that Serene's mason claim is legitimate and thinks that he's scum. I've had to remind him countless times that scum masons do not exist in normal games, but he's adamant on pursuing Serene. Personally, I think discussion can't hurt, so I've given him the okay to push Serene a little bit, but that we are not going to vote for them. I figure he can do his thing, and I can do mine, and in the end we'll discuss our results and find scum.

-Bulba

P-edit:

Unvote

Vote StevieT92

Yeah, not going to take your hint and look at Zdenek for scum. Nice try though.

[BulbaFenix]

Zdenek, it should be apparent that Fenix does not trust Serene given everything he's said since the claim. A simple ISO can prove that.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

You're welcome to tell me about your conversations about Serene too.
To Bulba.

We both thought that Serene might be scum yesterday until they claimed. Fenix still thinks they're scum, while I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and look elsewhere for now. I've kept Fenix off of them for the most part since their claim. He pushed me hard on it. When d2 was about to start, he wanted to tango with Serene so bad. I finally consented, but said that we were not going to vote them.

Brian, I get the feeling you're from a place that no lynches a lot.

Otherwise your latest posts are kind of silly

especially given that Zdenek is hardly the only one who's done what you're complaining about, he just happened to pick a topic you didn't like I guess?

I take it Brian is a town read?

I'd also like to hear at least a vague hydra summary from BulbaFenix. I thought it was possible that could be fake-hydra-dissonance just purely because it's a really easy thing to be dissonant about.

Not much to tell really. We've been pretty open about our thought process and what we've discussed. Anything we haven't said really isn't anybody's business at this point. Suffice it to say, we have gone back over our reads and refined them given the events in d1. If you want anything more specific, you're going to have to ask.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Brian, I get the feeling you're from a place that no lynches a lot.

Otherwise your latest posts are kind of silly

especially given that Zdenek is hardly the only one who's done what you're complaining about, he just happened to pick a topic you didn't like I guess?

I take it Brian is a town read?

Not particularly.

Then why do you call his posts silly? Silly implies that you think he's town, and he's responding irrationally. If you are unsure of him being town, you'd see his posts as suspicious or even scummy. But you didn't, which leaves me a little confused.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

My point being that you were addressing it from a Brian-town standpoint, rather than a standpoint where you didn't know his alignment.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I disagree.

Of course you do. I don't expect anybody to agree that what they're doing is scummy (Okay, I may know a few people...), but the fact of the matter is that you're being very wishy washy about how you feel about Brian's alignment. Brian's chosen a stance and is refusing to budge. However, when you comment on it, you refuse to make any sort of stance on his actions whatsoever. In fact, when I push you on the subject, you've refused to take a stance on his very alignment. I mean, you should have some sort of opinion, even if it's just "Brian is null because of X.", and then we can talk about X, but you've given us nothing. So, what is your stance on Brian?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I have a null read on him, obviously.

You're really grasping at straws here. This entire argument is based on one adjective I picked, and now I'm being 'wishy-washy' just because I didn't tell you something I felt was obvious.

Actually, I'm not grasping at straws, because sometimes word choice is very important and can betray our motivation. You calling what Brian did "silly" betrayed that you thought that he was town aligned instead of scum aligned. I looked back at what Brian was doing, and I saw that he was defending his choices, particularly his choice not to move his vote. Any other player when not knowing his alignment might question him about his choices and come to some sort of conclusion about them, even if that conclusion is that his choice is not alignment indicative. However, you simply dismissed what he did as "silly". There was no seeking out his motivation for making the choices you were commenting on, only you saying it was "silly", which betrayed you thinking or knowing he was town (Hence why I asked you if you had a town read on him.). I'm definitely going to be keeping a close eye on you two from now on.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Ok reads regarding ProHawk's death:

Doc Holliday (Cephrir) is town
Broseidon is scum
Calcifer is probably town
Dramonic is slightly scummy

Explain these.

-Bulba

Argh...

[BulbaFenix]

Doc Holliday blatantly showed he didn't really read very well; shows more town than scum.

Then again, Doc did get replaced. What about Cephrir makes you think scum, or was it all about how Doc did not have that much time to devote to this game?

Calcifer went along with the plan at first (notably after two people condemned it), then hopped right off. Looks really awkward from a scum standpoint and I don't see one being so obvious about it.

Why do you think Calcifer was obvious about it? I don't think so. Wouldn't scum want to hop off of a bad idea, especially after town voiced disapproval for it?

Dramonic's vote on Calcifer feels off. Minor point.

Then why bring it up, especially since Dramonic had claimed mason, which should have influenced your reads?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Then why bring it up, especially since Dramonic had claimed mason, which should have influenced your reads?

Isn't this hydra suggesting serene is scum? Shouldn't that effect your read on dramonic?

There's a difference between a HYDRA (both heads) agreeing with that mason claim and both heads having a difference in opinion on it. Bulba has told me time, after time, after time that there are no scum masons. I'm saying straight up that the claim itself is total and utter bullshit. Dramonic is COASTING by with no one batting an eye at him because of their "claim". Which, for ME (NOT BULBA), is a scum tell and something that is so easy to do. And if you ISO THIS HYDRA, you will see I've not ONE TIME (the Fenix head) believed this mason claim and have questioned it's legitimacy.

It does look like BulbaFenix is faking reads.

Vote Bulba

Provide evidence to this claim.

You disbelieve the mason claim?

Personally, I do not. Bulba and I have been going back and forth on this in our conversations.
...
-Fenix

Fenix doesn't think that Serene's mason claim is legitimate and thinks that he's scum.

Bingo!

Vote: BulbaFenix

So, taking the wording of a question and trying to twist someone's meaning based on a question that was worded ever so easily to take and twist to your liking... That's dirty.

what is going on

super fast wagon is suspect

Or it means that BFenix is just a goon, and Ank is the Godfather.

It also means we're getting our shit together.

When we flip town, just how much of your "shit" is going to be together?

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p5109586]

Simple. My vote is on him and its not being removed.

This is horrible. You're voting for a town player and have no intent to make yourself useful?

Is he town? Because I have not seen a shred of evidence that proves he is. Unless you would care to make yourself useful and give me a good reason he's town cause unless I missed it I have not seen anything official thus makes him town.

He was confirmed as innocent child a while ago.

Usually, a mod will announce that sort of thing. So, you need to explain this quote, Calc.

Calcifer is truly UNLYNCHABLE. It's as if the town is totally impervious to his massive aura of scumminess. We are helpless against such extreme phenomena of online hypnotism. His method is based on flood-posting when under scrutiny, and multiplying the random "anyone-but-me" votes.

Ankamius' scum game is so lame people are giving him a pass for it, go figure. People are like, "aw, look at this innocent scummy little puppy, we know he's scum but he's so cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuute. How can we vote this likkle puppie?" Serene is also helpless against the power of kawai scum. We all know it's scum, but we let them kill us at night until they grow to raging pitbulls at LYLO.

VOTE: BulbaFenix

You're one to talk about flood posting...

WHY BULBA IS SCUM

The quick LOOKATMEIMPOSTINCONTENT edition

The kills didn't tell me anything. TIP looked like an obv. vig. kill, and ProHawk was clearly starting to hit his stride at the end of d1, so it may just be a case of scum wanting avoid dealing with a sharp scumhunter. Besides, initial reactions to NKs are classic WIFOM, and scum tend to react to them a lot as a way to look town.

"Prohawk was clearly trying to hit his stride" arrogant phrasing like this is always scum minded. Prohawk was hitting what stride where? How could I, an innocent townie, know he was hitting his stride unless he was starting to latch on to our buddies?

In an attempt to seem cool and have a grasp on the NK situation Bulba's really just claiming scum here.

We both thought that Serene might be scum yesterday until they claimed. Fenix still thinks they're scum, while I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and look elsewhere for now. I've kept Fenix off of them for the most part since their claim. He pushed me hard on it. When d2 was about to start, he wanted to tango with Serene so bad. I finally consented, but said that we were not going to vote them.

Here's some nice backpedaling. When called out on their scummy tone when interacting with us (I think someone asked "do you not believe their claim?") they go into "Well uhhhh one head thinks they are scum still but the other head got me ot backoff so forgive me if I slip and try to throw mud on them from time to time."

Its also very possible they think we are ballsy scum masons on the opposing team, because multiball scum are always very paranoid.

Then why bring it up, especially since Dramonic had claimed mason, which should have influenced your reads?

This is why Ank needs to be powerlynched after Bulba flips scum. "Why the hell are you making useless posts and being obvious scum, you baddie scumbuddy?"

1.) After interaction with ProHawk, we both started to get townie vibes from him due to his willingness to do research on (specifically) my town and scum game. Scum wouldn't put the time into doing that. Changing our read on him from day one, going into day 2.
2.) Innocent townie my ass. You're putting words in this slot's mouth and I won't stand for it.
3.) Ballsy scum masons? That's a laugh. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII (making sure I separate this from Bulba's opinion) think you're scum. No mason to it. Just plain, dirty, out and drug through the muck scum.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

How did Zdenek twist your words?

Asked: DO YOU DISBELIEVE THE CLAIM
Answer: (YOU) No I do not
Answer from Bulba: No but Fenix does.

He is not twisting your words, you flat out said you did not disbelieve.

I do not believe the claim AT ALL. From DAY 1 when it was revealed by you when Dramonic was getting a wagon started, I've not believed it. Not once.

It is the opinion of the Serene ones that your apparent dissonance is for a twofold reason: you wish to instill a sense of townie paranoia without going at us too hard, and further you fear confirming too many townsmen via POE later down the line.

No. I just don't believe you one fucking bit. You spearheaded a campaign against Nero which turned up Nero flipping town. You're "mason" is coasting by and doing jack dick, only voting when it's relevant for a wagon and then disappearing again.

Ok fenix, but you're failing to show how such a fakeclaim can be a viable stratgey. It's all very well coasting by on day two, but how are they going to explain how they're still around in endgame? That's assuming they don't get picked off by another scum team, and if we are multiball, scum will know due to team size. So, for these two to fakeclaim masons successfully, they need to know there's no other scum team, they need to gamble there's no actual masons to counterclaim (it only takes one), and they need a bloody good reason for not getting killed if they're still around when numbers matter, a reason that I'm struggling to come up with.

So please, educate me, because way I see it, fakeclaiming mason with a buddy on day one is absolutely retarded, more so if multiball. It only takes on to die and the jig is up.

They're masons. Stop hiding behind hydra disagreements in order to muddy the waters.

You're post reads as very WIFOM. But, I will show the facts of why I think they are scum.

At post 1106, Dramonic had the highest vote count. At post 1120, Serene just waltz's in and goes, he's my mason... And the wagon stops! This is a normal game. As my partner has pointed out to me as well as someone else in this thread, there are no such things as bastardized roles like Mafia-Townie masons. Now, this is before both the day and night kills happened. Dramonic is coasting and coasting HARD with little to no question after the claim because we're all attacking other people. It makes it very easy to just lie low in the chaos of it all and post here and there. Serene is creating a shit ton of noise and a lot of it is pointless. He spearheaded the Nero lynch, that flipped town.

There are too many if's in play to not question or start hacking away at that claim so we can get a better read on it, then just taking it at face value. We DON'T know if it's multiball. We DON'T know if there's a vig in play. We DON'T know if there are even multiple teams for that matter. Too many factors to be taken into account.

In English and in this instance, the contradiction is clear. So Broseidon and Orc are dumb or scum (scum especially if BulbaFenix does flip town).

That said, it is possible that it was just a mistake, which is why I asked them about their hydra discussions. Apparently Fenix was adamant about tangoing with Serene today, but he's not done that at all, so I don't believe their explanation either.

There are also other reasons why they are scummy.

So they are a fantastic lynch.

I'd like for you to point out these "other" reasons. Just for clarification sake. Because it seems you have a shit reason for now.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Serene you're wrong. Double negative != positive in all languages or even English dialects.

It wasn't a double negative. It was flat out a yes or no question to which he responded no.

I. do. not. believe. the. claim. at. all.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

You say now you don't believe it AFTER YOU GOT CAUGHT SAYING YOU BELIEVED IT.

I've not believed it from the start. Day 1. Numero uno. How fucking dense can you be NOT to see that? You've given me no reasons to believe you.

And what scum motivation would I have for lynching Nero? And admitting we read him as town? Because he was such a great scum hunter that we needed him lynched? No. He directly and admittedly played against his win condition and had to die. I will not mourn him. Remember, he called us town: he didn't have to die to protect me, he died to protect the town from himself.

repeat after me:

"If Nero flips town I promise to completely ignore the user Serene and his/her for the rest of the duration of this game."

So, you wanna run that last post by you again?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Desperate no, but he's doing it now. I am aware that this occurrd only after it was pointed out that he wasn't doing so, but he's going at it with a genuine vigor.

Doing it now is literally irrelevant, since his other head said in the thread that he wanted to.

Bulba knows me very well.

And honestly I kinda want fenix to rage at me since I can get a better read on people when they're emotional


Pedit: he said ignore us, he also said we were town. He was no threat to my slot.

Lol. Me? Rage at YOU?? Nero was right, you are a stupid fuck.

Ank might be scum I haven't taken a close enough look but the case on his post is batshit retarded

The case is correct and I'm sad you cannot grasp the inescapable logic that has led to the right conclusion.

Further, you are voting Zdenek, so your hours of berating Serene for voting a townie ought to be over.

Please. Just stop... My sides. MY SIDES...

I'm more interested in bulba's "hitting his stride" slip. That seems to be going ignored while people focus on the language issue, which I'm happy to accept is worthless.

I'm a bad scumhunter? Yeah because I missed orc in my last game, misread him as strong town, and I've been doing it again this game. I'm starting to think orc is teamed with BRO and bulba, and they realise that if bulba dies today, the "hitting his stride" comment will get more love, hawk's comments will be further analysed, and BRO will get lynched to fuck. That's would explain why orc is so keen to protect them.

If BRO and bulba flip same scum team, lynch orc fast please guys, don't let him worm his way out. He is more than capable of towning it to high hell when scum.

How is it a slip??

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Nice OMGUS. How exactly am I scum there ank? Because I realise why they're masons?

Why didn't you give any consideration to serene when pointing the finger at dramonic? Why soft push a claimed mason when his apparent mason buddy is rolefishing to high hell? Why am I scum for finding that dodgy as hell?

What does the lack of "ank" in prohawk's ISO have to do with anything? I happen to think serene found a slip with bulba's "hitting his stride" comment. How would bulba know hawk was hitting his stride? It does indeed suggest bulba knows that hawk was sniffing out his buddies. Thus, the lack of "ank" in hawk's ISO suggests that we shouldn't swing for you if bulba flips scum, because hawk wasn't exactly onto you ank. It's entirely relevant if you actually read my three quickposts together in context.

Bulba was poking the hell out of Hawk to get him to interact. I left Bulba to sort out ProHawk. You're line of logic is very bad here.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Then why bring it up, especially since Dramonic had claimed mason, which should have influenced your reads?

Isn't this hydra suggesting serene is scum? Shouldn't that effect your read on dramonic?

Dramonic is in the same boat as Serene right now: Untouchable because of mason claim. However, I was not referring to our Dramonic read in this post, I was inquiring about Ank's.

Bulba has a point though. Ank is saying dramonic is "slightly scummy", yet he hardly mentions serene in his entire ISO. Serene is way scummier than dramonic, if you're going to point the finger at one of the masons, it's gonna be serene. Very strange to call dramonic scummy without giving any consideration whatsoever to serene.

vote ankamius

This reeks of opportunism.

Interesting. When I first read that I thought it made sense, like "personally I do not believe the claim". But yeah on 2nd read that's bad.

vote bulbafenix

either or really

Oh, I get it now. I was thinking this too. You can see how that could have been meant the other way, but that is kind of bad.

Can we get a VC in here?

Translation: "Hey, I know what Fenix was really trying to say, but there's this delicious wagon forming that I just can't ignore. Opportunism away!"

bulba's "slip" alone is not enough to warrant lynch, it's easy for him to say he also misread that statement.

Translation: "I know what's really going on, but I need to make something up quick to justify this wagon that I hopped onto."

But today he's come in with an immediate reasonless vote for stevie

Yes, a reasonless vote that I spent most of d1 explaining. The NKs did nothing to throw those reasons into question, hence I voted. Nice misrep, btw.

then said I must be speedlynched if it's it's multiball for being the first to speculate on it, despite the fact it's the assumption most people seem to be working on, serene included.

I really don't see that many people working under the assumption that it's multiball. In fact, more people seem to be considering vig. over multiball, or at least a single scum team over multiball. The fact is, everybody is showing their uncertainty about the setup while hunting. You, however, entered into the thread today with a determination that you KNEW it was multiball. You seemed to want to get in on the spec action early and drum up some town cred for scumhunting, which is more in line with scum motivation, rather than town motivation.

And he wasn't looking good yesterday.

Appeal to Majority never works as an argument.

The kills didn't tell me anything. TIP looked like an obv. vig. kill, and ProHawk was clearly starting to hit his stride at the end of d1, so it may just be a case of scum wanting avoid dealing with a sharp scumhunter. Besides, initial reactions to NKs are classic WIFOM, and scum tend to react to them a lot as a way to look town.

"Prohawk was clearly trying to hit his stride" arrogant phrasing like this is always scum minded. Prohawk was hitting what stride where? How could I, an innocent townie, know he was hitting his stride unless he was starting to latch on to our buddies?

We had ProHawk as a scumread upon replacing in d1 due to the frequency and content of his posts. After engaging with him for awhile, ProHawk started to actually display enough town intent that I was able to get a town read off of him. By the end of the day, he was starting to post a lot more regularly and was actually meaningfully contributing to the scumhunting effort.

We both thought that Serene might be scum yesterday until they claimed. Fenix still thinks they're scum, while I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and look elsewhere for now. I've kept Fenix off of them for the most part since their claim. He pushed me hard on it. When d2 was about to start, he wanted to tango with Serene so bad. I finally consented, but said that we were not going to vote them.

Here's some nice backpedaling. When called out on their scummy tone when interacting with us (I think someone asked "do you not believe their claim?") they go into "Well uhhhh one head thinks they are scum still but the other head got me ot backoff so forgive me if I slip and try to throw mud on them from time to time."

Hydra dissonence is not backpedaling nor is it scummy. Reach harder please.

So Broseidon and Orc are dumb or scum (scum especially if BulbaFenix does flip town).

This needs to be explained.

Bro wins the argument, the argument about that being a slip is now over.

There is a semi-valid point about BulbaFenix not going after Serene today except then they started doing it.

Yeah so basically apologies for my momentary lapse, BulbaFenix are still probably town.

Translation: "Oh, crap. This mislynch wagon is not as solid as I once thought. I need to distance myself from this wagon as much as possible."

Bulbafenix you seem to be distanced from me

And not talking to me despite my efforts against your lynch

I find that interesting

I've just been able to get back and catch up. If you really want to know, I think you are town, because I don't think scum would try to derail a wagon such as ours. You put yourself on the line, which is more in line with town trying to stop what they thought was a bad lynch. Normally I don't interact with someone unless I have a question or I'm responding to them. It's just not part of my nature. If you have a question, though, feel free to ask. In the meantime, I asked a question about Mastin's townplay awhile back that no one has responded to, so if you have an answer regarding that, I'd be more than happy to hear it.

Can someone tell me if this is typical for town Mastin?

Unvote

Vote DOMO

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I was more interested in whether the AtE we saw d1 in regard to Serene was more in line with town Mastin or scum Mastin.

-Bulba

I need to stop doing this...

[BulbaFenix]

I was more interested in whether the AtE we saw d1 in regard to Serene was more in line with town Mastin or scum Mastin.

-Bulba

I need to stop doing this...

Only took me once, I don't know what your problem is

So calcifer is the hardest to lynch scum read that you have

Shouldn't we sort of not let that kind of scum reach endgame

I'll let you use your phenomenal powers of persuasion and non-garbage play and outstandingly accurate reads to summon a Calcifer wagon. Show me how it's done, teach.

Or you could stop d-riding and if you REALLY think Calc is scum maybe...

So a richly detailed meta analysis, using the most up-to-date numerical methods and a well-thought-out design has demonstrated that the combined Mastin/Nacho hydra Calcifer is town.

Facts are facts, I must tip my hat and bow to science.

UNLYNCHABLE, yes, and for cause! Calcifer is our official unlynchable townie. He's an invaluable asset to the town.

OH... My... God...

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Ugh. Let's go over this one more time.

Rift Adrift asks Fenix if he disbelieves the mason claim. Fenix says that he doesn't, but let's ignore that part of the story for now and focus on the rest, he continues

Bulba and I have been going back and forth on this in our conversations.

What this indicated is that they have been actively discussing whether the masons are scum or not. As far as I can Bulba thinks that they are town, but he is willing to entertain the idea that they are scum. So this leads me to believe that Fenix has presented in their qt an argument that is fairly convincing to Bulba.

Bulba continues:

What makes it fake? Fenix doesn't think that Serene's mason claim is legitimate and thinks that he's scum. I've had to remind him countless times that scum masons do not exist in normal games, but he's adamant on pursuing Serene. Personally, I think discussion can't hurt, so I've given him the okay to push Serene a little bit, but that we are not going to vote for them. I figure he can do his thing, and I can do mine, and in the end we'll discuss our results and find scum.

More evidence that Fenix pushed a Serene case in the qt.

We both thought that Serene might be scum yesterday until they claimed. Fenix still thinks they're scum, while I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and look elsewhere for now. I've kept Fenix off of them for the most part since their claim. He pushed me hard on it. When d2 was about to start, he wanted to tango with Serene so bad. I finally consented, but said that we were not going to vote them.

and more, which is close to a repeat of the last bit.

This part was said when I requested details of their conversation. Notice that it indicated that Bulba consented to let Fenix tango with Serene at the start of day 2. Before we look at the content of those posts, what I would like to point out is the complete absence of any real details about their conversations. At the very least, I'd expect them to have revealed some of the reasons that Fenix thought made Serene scum, especially since he wanted to tango with her. This makes me believe that these conversations never happened. Now looking at Fenix's posts from the start of day 2, there are two interactions with Serene prior to this one is the accusation of them putting words in Ank's mouth, and some rolly-eyes at another comment about Ank. These are both comments that to me look like pot shots to discredit the slot, and what they don't look like are comments made by someone who has spent the night convincing his hydra-partner that Serene is scum and that he should go after them.

1.) Rift Adrift asks me a question in a way where you're going to try and take the wording of my answer and ride it into the ground. How many times does someone have to point out, I thought their claim was bullshit from the start? Point. Blank. PERIOD!

2.) Bulba is taking the mason claim at face value and wanting to look elsewhere. I, however, like him, will not let something go once I have a sniff/read/feeling on it. I want him to focus on our other reads while I get the chance to focus on what my gut is telling ME.

3.) I kept going "Bulba, I've got this feeling, let me RUN with it," because of my feeling/read. He focuses one direction for scum, I go another. What's the problem here?

4.) We had Serene at a null in our original reads (Bulba wanted him as null/town, I wanted him as scum. Compromise for a null read). You can go back to day 1 and see that. I was seeing Serene as scum at the start. This was even BEFORE the claim even came in.

5.) Those conversations did happen, via skype and telephone. I just kept on him, let me go... Let me go... LET ME GO... My gut is SCREAMING for *list of reasons*... All he had to do was say, "ok, go!" Once those words were said, I'm always one to tango with someone. I tangoed with Bulba as scum, and I've tangoed with him as town. He KNOWS my dance skills (and is a great partner I might add). I was entertaining company yesterday, so my song to hit the dance floor was delayed. We know each other VERY well and know how the other likes to play and discuss this game nightly.

Translation: "I know what's really going on, but I need to make something up quick to justify this wagon that I hopped onto."

This misrep alone should be enough defence.

I didn't just hop onto this wagon. I started it. I didn't like your stevie vote, same with zdenek, I see two people enter the 2nd day with no regard for what happened overnight. So I attack you both. You respond with an attack on me, saying I need to be quicklynched if it turns out to be multiball. I see this as an attempt by someone who knows it's multiball to get a mislynch when confirmed. And here you're saying I'm trying to find reasons to justify hopping on a wagon that I started with what I see as good reason.

This...

You, however, entered into the thread today with a determination that you KNEW it was multiball. You seemed to want to get in on the spec action early and drum up some town cred for scumhunting, which is more in line with scum motivation, rather than town motivation.

Let me ask you a question... if it's multiball, wouldn't it be better for the scum if town didn't consider it? If I'm scum and I know it's multiball, I want to be able to hide behind my legit scumhunting for longer without town knwoing that scum are legit scumhunting. So if anything, it's a town tell. There's little scum motivation for wanting town to be aware that scum are actually scumhunting, is there? Town cred is lost, not gained.
I do not know if it's multiball, I suspect it is. There's reasons for that which I'll get moaned at if say it... let's just say multiball is fresh in my memory. The night kills did not make sense to me from a vig point of view. Maybe I'm wrong. But they seem like shit vig targets to me. Two scum kills made more sense. Thus, I speculated. I speculate a lot. Well done for spotting a rev tell.

I'm pretty sure I'm defending against scum here.

Ok. So, i'll entertain you with a question as well. Let's entertain a fact here.

Why come in and throw down a, "well we're in multiball because if it were a vig, then his targeting was bad"? IF there's a vig in play, how do we know his targeting was horrible or what their thought was behind their target? Think about it for a second. No one in their right mind is going to throw away the theory of multiball with 2 kills coming in. Hell, I saw both kills and told Bulba as soon as the thread opened up we MIGHT be in multiball. He threw down that it might also be a vig. We went, eh, let's just hunt. You came in determined that it was already multiball.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Translation: "I know what's really going on, but I need to make something up quick to justify this wagon that I hopped onto."

This misrep alone should be enough defence.

And yet you fail to bring in the context for this "misrep". Don't worry. I'll do it for you.

Interesting. When I first read that I thought it made sense, like "personally I do not believe the claim". But yeah on 2nd read that's bad.

vote bulbafenix

either or really

bulba's "slip" alone is not enough to warrant lynch, it's easy for him to say he also misread that statement.

I didn't just hop onto this wagon. I started it.

Actually, this current version of the wagon was started by Zdenek voting for the "slip". You had hopped off earlier. You only hopped back on the wagon because of said "slip", which you admitted you read differently (read: correctly) (And I quote: "When I first read that I thought it made sense, like 'personally I do not believe the claim'."). So first statement proven incorrect.

And my translation of your reasoning is spot on with this in mind. You knew that your reason for hopping on our wagon (the "slip") was opportunistic, so you had to bring other reasons into play, none of which you mentioned upon your revote, and all of which had been addressed. Essentially, you made up reasons to stay on the wagon when you realized your current BS reason couldn't sustain it.

I didn't like your stevie vote, same with zdenek, I see two people enter the 2nd day with no regard for what happened overnight. So I attack you both.

I see you've dropped the "Bulb's Stevie vote was baseless" line of attack. Just going to point out how dumb this argument is. He's essentially saying that we are scum for refusing to partake in a bunch of WIFOM speculation concerning the NKs, and instead decided to scumhunt. Who would want to push that? Oh, wait. Scum.

You respond with an attack on me, saying I need to be quicklynched if it turns out to be multiball.

This is a misrepresentation of my initial post on you, since it makes an assumption that you were attacked BECAUSE of you calling us out on our Stevie vote (i.e. OMGUS). You also make it look like our only reason for calling you scum is your multiball comment. However, that was only a small part of our reason for voting you, and a not very important one at that, since that would only come into play if it was discovered that this was in fact multiball (Essentially a "in that event we'll come back to this" statement). In fact, my main point of contention was the fact that you FoS us only after you realized you had been tunneling Zdenek so long for something that both of us had done, essentially making sure that you weren't called out for being selective. Again, this is something scum is more likely to do than town.

Let me ask you a question... if it's multiball, wouldn't it be better for the scum if town didn't consider it? If I'm scum and I know it's multiball, I want to be able to hide behind my legit scumhunting for longer without town knwoing that scum are legit scumhunting. So if anything, it's a town tell. There's little scum motivation for wanting town to be aware that scum are actually scumhunting, is there? Town cred is lost, not gained.
I do not know if it's multiball, I suspect it is. There's reasons for that which I'll get moaned at if say it... let's just say multiball is fresh in my memory. The night kills did not make sense to me from a vig point of view. Maybe I'm wrong. But they seem like shit vig targets to me. Two scum kills made more sense. Thus, I speculated. I speculate a lot. Well done for spotting a rev tell.

First of all, this entire paragraph is a bunch of WIFOM, so it's essentially useless as an argument. But what the heck, I'll humor you.

if it's multiball, wouldn't it be better for the scum if town didn't consider it?

Maybe. Maybe not. But without a scum flip, town speculation on the matter would be futile. It's better to assume 1 scum team until proven otherwise, especially since there are several other ways to explain 2 kills n1.

If I'm scum and I know it's multiball, I want to be able to hide behind my legit scumhunting for longer without town knwoing that scum are legit scumhunting.

Or you can use the 2 kills to say that we're in multiball so it looks like you're town who's legit scumhunting. Especially if you use the argument that scum wouldn't want town to know. Again, WIFOM.

So if anything, it's a town tell.

No. You are not getting town cred for this.

There's little scum motivation for wanting town to be aware that scum are actually scumhunting, is there?

There is if you are trying to convince town that you are town who is scumhunting in an effort to gain town points.

Town cred is lost, not gained.

Depends how you play. Like say, for instance, if you used WIFOM to explain how there is no scum motivation for doing what you're doing.

I do not know if it's multiball, I suspect it is.

Context says this is wrong. True you said, "Looks like we're in multiball.". But you did so at the very beginning of the day, and it was the very first thing you said. Given that context, you might as well have been saying (And yes I know the following is hyperbole, before you try to call me out for misrepping you), "Hey everbody, it looks like we're in multiball! Time to hunker down and find both scum teams! Isn't it great that I, as town, spotted this? I wonder why scum made those kills... Let's spec! WIFOM...WIFOM...WIFOM..." As you can see, by saying what you said when you said it, you were clearly implying that we

were

in multiball, not that we

might

be in multiball, a distinction which I clearly caught and pointed out.

The night kills did not make sense to me from a vig point of view. Maybe I'm wrong. But they seem like shit vig targets to me.

Why don't any of them make sense as vig. targets? I thought that TIP would have been an obvious vig. target, given his controversial play in the game. He makes for a horrible lynch, but is perfect for a vig., because the vig. is able to help the town by either getting rid of scum that town could allow to coast or getting rid of a potentially unhelpful townie. Essentially, it's the vig's responsibility to take care of those reads that town would be unable to deal with given their limited lynches.

Two scum kills made more sense.

Again, how? Because essentially, you're dipping into WIFOM territory here. In fact, that's all the NKs are at this point: WIFOM. This is the main reason I didn't want to address them. We have very limited information right now, so all we'd be doing would be opening ourselves up to endless WIFOM, instead of actually scumhunting. This does not benefit town at all. The only ones it benefits are scum.

Thus, I speculated. I speculate a lot.

Again, WIFOM is not scumhunting and is not beneficial to town.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Ugggghhhhh I can't right now for nacho

For mastin, he reacts a LOT stronger to people voting him than he has

As part of a hydra? I react way less strongly to votes as part of a hydra. It's a division of labor sort of thing. I think mastin sees himself as the minority partner in the Calcifer enterprise. I'm focusing mostly on reading Nacho.

Nacho reaches out as town and takes a lot of control
a

Actually, that reasoning would make sense. Even with Mastin complaining earlier about carrying more of the hydra load than originally intended if I remember correctly.

Wouldn't this mean that Calcifer is likely town, since Mastin assumed Nacho would be driving?

You knew that your reason for hopping on our wagon (the "slip") was opportunistic, so you had to bring other reasons into play, none of which you mentioned upon your revote

Lots of votes can be perceived as opportunistic. Seeing as I was first to vote for you today, I don't see this as one of them.

Here's the opportunistic part:

Interesting. When I first read that I thought it made sense, like "personally I do not believe the claim". But yeah on 2nd read that's bad.

vote bulbafenix

either or really

bulba's "slip" alone is not enough to warrant lynch, it's easy for him to say he also misread that statement.

Essentially, you jumped on the wagon for a contrived reason, which you admitted you knew what was actually said, then you said, "Well this contrived reason that I jumped on the wagon for is not going to sustain my position. Here are other reasons to justify my position on this wagon.".

Essentially, you made up reasons to stay on the wagon when you realized your current BS reason couldn't sustain it.

This is an outright lie.

No it's not. See above quote.

I see you've dropped the "Bulb's Stevie vote was baseless" line of attack.

I haven't. My initital reaction to your vote was that I didn't like it, it pinged pretty hard, along with zdenek. It's certainly a contributary factor. I still assert that town would be more likely than scum to reassess their reads based on night actions. You did not.

My read on Stevie was not influenced whatsoever by who died during the night.

He's essentially saying that we are scum for refusing to partake in a bunch of WIFOM speculation concerning the NKs, and instead decided to scumhunt.

No, my attack began as a result of you refusing to acknowledge the night actions. It's not the only reason I voted for you. So you're not scum just because you didn't take into account night actions, you're scum for other reasons I've pointed out, cheifly because you're lining up my mislynch when multiball becomes obvious.

Why would I acknowledge the night actions? They're essentially WIFOM. They serve no purpose but to confuse the town and distract from actual scumhunting. You know who does like to comment about night actions a lot? Scum.

Also, I noticed that you said "

when

multiball becomes obvious" not "

if

multiball becomes obvious". Again, you're working under the knowledge that multiball exists without confirmation from a flip. There is no way that town should be working under that assumption with as little knowledge as we have.

Or you can use the 2 kills to say that we're in multiball so it looks like you're town who's legit scumhunting.

This argument is heavily flawed. I've already explained why. Why would scum get towncred for scumhunting when town are aware of the possibility of multiball? Town cred only exists for scumhunting when town do not consider multiball. If I'm scum, I'm using the multiball comments to look like town speculating, not to give my scumhunting credit, because it discredits my scumhunting. Hence, the scum motivation is thin.

Using WIFOM again to try to discredit my argument. Unlike last time, however, I'm not going to dive into this one and further allow you to muddy the waters.

There is if you are trying to convince town that you are town who is scumhunting in an effort to gain town points.

But if town know scum are scumhtuning, why am I going to get town cred for scumhunting if I'm scum? Like I say, a heavily flawed argument.

Same thing here.

As you can see, by saying what you said when you said it, you were clearly implying that we were in multiball, not that we might be in multiball, a distinction which I clearly caught and pointed out.

You have interpreted my comments in a way which gives you ground for attack. This is misrepping, and it's doesn't look like a town misrep to me.

No, that is not a misrep, especially since I've explained clearly what you did and the scum motivation behind it. I looked at what you said given the context, and that was the most obvious interpretation. Words are important. Context is important. And given both, it becomes obvious from the way you entered the thread today that you were intent on announcing that we're in multiball, knowledge that town should not have had at this point. Yes, town might speculate saying "we might be in multiball" or "if we're in multiball", but you chose to enter the thread and say "Look, we're in multiball!". I do not see any town motivation whatsoever coming from that, only scum.

Basically, your case seems to be my speculation and WIFOM. These are very null tells for me. Do some rev meta and find me a game where I don't speculate and talk WIFOM.

Sorry. This is not going to work, especially since if you know your own meta, it is no longer reliable. Simply put, you could be scum using your town meta to make yourself appear town.

On another note, when did Calcifer and our hydra become town reads for Serene?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

It would take an idiot vig to shoot Orc right now.

And you should be

second in line

if the vig thirsts for town blood.

I would put you front and center so the town can have some concise hunting instead of bad noise.

BFenix is scum too, the excuses to content ratio is sky-high.

Is this REALLY the best you can offer as far as wanting us lynched? *yawn* A content jab, coming from YOU of all people, is laughable.

I just iso'd Stubbs. Solid scum.

highlights?

It's just the way he's pissing around saying nothing and pretending he's following things when he's not. Dumb comments, dumb questions without follow-up, pointless jokes (unlike Serene's jokes that always tie into the plot), rarity of firm stances, nebulous content etc.

Serene is a terrible scum hunter.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I'm really cranky for non-mafia reasons.

Stubbs
Ankamius
BFenix

WHO SHALL TASTE DELICIOUS ROPE?

We should set Brian Hollywood on fire with a nice vigorous wagon.

BUT not until we get a claim from BFenix. Let's get BFenix to CLAIM TIME.

CAN WE DO THAT, CHILDREN?

BFenix is scum too, the excuses to content ratio is sky-high.

Weren't we town just a second ago?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Yes those are all quotes where we say you're scum. Where did we call you "town?"

So you think that the BulbaF thing isn't going anywhere but the Stevie thing is?

This may be a

whiteknight-BFenix

, bus-Stevie combo.

The only way that Zdenek could be white knighting us is if we are town.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

The only way that Zdenek could be white knighting us is if we are town.

Not Zdenek, but Stubbs.

You being town is a long shot independent of that.

You need to show this.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

You need to show this.

No I don't.

Cat is out of the bag.

This explains a lot actually...

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

You need to show this.

No I don't.

Actually, you do.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

You need to show this.

No I don't.

Actually, you do.

-Fenix

You totally misunderstood everything I said and I don't feel like explain it to scum. Don't waste my time with boring, senseless chores.

I didn't misunderstand a thing. I'm simply telling you to clarify instead of dodging the clarification.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I didn't misunderstand a thing. I'm simply telling you to clarify instead of dodging the clarification.

Oh you're so scum. Get lost.

So you have no ground to stand on, wish to deflect away any argument on any of the reads you have, and will keep tunneling? Got it.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Reads:

Town

Rift Adrift
Orcinus_theoriginal
BROseidon
King Crabd
Ankamius
Metal Sonic

Null/Town

Dramonic (on Fenix's insistence)
Serene (on Fenix's insistence)
Calcifer
The Goat
Zdenek (Fenix started to growl at me for this one, but I still hold that he's probably town.)

Null

StubbsKVM (We're on opposite sides of this read. So null for now.)
Brian Hollywood
Thirdkoopa
Shadi1337 (I wanted to put him as null/scum, but Fenix insisted on making him null.)

Null/Scum

Baby Spice

Scum

TMTOLBTWNTOF
Cephrir
StevieT92
DOMO

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

You should be explaining why you felt hawk was hitting his stride. Did you explain that? Pull it up for me if you did, I can't remember and I'm lazy.

We had ProHawk as a scumread upon replacing in d1 due to the frequency and content of his posts. After engaging with him for awhile, ProHawk started to actually display enough town intent that I was able to get a town read off of him. By the end of the day, he was starting to post a lot more regularly and was actually meaningfully contributing to the scumhunting effort.

Not going to explain why the WIFOM remark is bad.

-Bulba

P-edit: I've gotten a bit of a town read from The Goat's posts, but it's not strong enough for me to put him in the town pile. I'm conflicted about Brian Hollywood, especially given the way some of my scum reads have reacted to him. I'm not ready to make a guess on his alignment until after I see a flip on some of them. As for Thirdkoopa, I'm waiting to see how he reacts now that he's just replaced in. I wasn't sure what to make of his predecessor.

Serene, since neither Eddie nor I were in Gay Mafia, using an argument based off of a game outside of our experiences is not a way to convince us of anything.

[BulbaFenix]

and for the record, the reason i never bothered reading the first 30 pages is because i'm like never home anymore and i trust DGB's scumdar well enough to keep tabs for me

Having seen DGB's scumdar in action, you should probably stay in for the evening.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

and for the record, the reason i never bothered reading the first 30 pages is because i'm like never home anymore and i trust DGB's scumdar well enough to keep tabs for me

Having seen DGB's scumdar in action, you should probably stay in for the evening.

-Bulba

There's some irony here.

I don't think I've played a game yet where I was town and solely responsible for all of the mislynches.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

and for the record, the reason i never bothered reading the first 30 pages is because i'm like never home anymore and i trust DGB's scumdar well enough to keep tabs for me

Having seen DGB's scumdar in action, you should probably stay in for the evening.

-Bulba

There's some irony here.

I don't think I've played a game yet where I was town and solely responsible for all of the mislynches.

-Bulba

I was referring to this game, and in fact your consolidated read on the serene slot. But, I take it you were referring to other games.

I was referring to Voided's Nightless Mountainous game, where DGB was responsible for every mislynch town suffered, including my own. This is why I'm not putting much stock in her scumdar. It also explains Serene's actions.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

If anything suggesting dram be vigged is a towntell. You should really quit badgering orci, he's pretty clearly town.

Because the way we're headed right now it looks like we're going to continue following Serene this whole game, and it'd be nice to have actual confirmation of their alignment.

Please note that this post does not actually condone vigging dram.

Buddying up to Orc and distancing from the vig. call all at the same time. Nice.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Sorry about the absence. Fenix informed me Sunday that he'd be V/LA and that I was in charge of driving the hydra this week. I've been busy lately both in real life and in moderating my first game on-site. I'll try to catch up as quickly as possible, which shouldn't be too bad since a lot of it is Serene filler.

it looks like we're going to continue following Serene this whole game

No one is "following us." Otherwise we'd be on Day 54725279 already.

yeah this game would have 20 pages and we'd be in 3-man lylo by now

So you do know that you are not the greatest scumhunter in the world, because otherwise town would never reach 3-man Lylo if you were right every time, even in the worst case scenario.

I'm starting to wonder if I was wrong about you, I feel like you're trying really hard to find a reason to suspect me

Not trying hard to suspect you. I already suspect you, and have ever since your opportunistic approval of our wagon and subsequent backpedal.

Can we wagon BRO now or do i need to post more ISO of him?

You mean that ISO analysis that you promised and then failed to deliver for the longest time?

especially if serene are pulling their shit together.

I can't see how someone who is showing he approaches the game logically can consider it to be a viable fakeclaim.

I think the claim is real, especially given the reveal that DGB is part of the hydra. Fenix is the one who thinks that it's fake, and he approaches the game differently than I do.

Bulba seems keen to cast doubt on a what I see as a confirmed townie who is scumreading him. I can only think of scum motivation for that.

Fenix comes from a different site meta, and I think we're seeing that, as I've been unable to convince him otherwise. I'd prefer to ignore Serene, but if Fenix really wants to poke the bear, who am I to stop him, especially if I can use the time to find scum elsewhere.

this is the real reason we didn't reveal our heads--- not because of fear of lynch (because lol i get mislynched like literally once every five years and DGB rarely gets mislynched) but because all of us get killed off very quickly by scum


we didn't want them to say "SHIT! DGB, KURIBO AND XXX? KILL THAT SHIT NOW"

Given that DGB is in your hydra and the amount of noise you're creating, I doubt you'll be NK'd anytime soon.

Page 60. I've been super busy. Trying to FINALLY finish Day 1.

Anyone have an actual reason for voting me asides from lurking?

Yes.

I didn't really get the argument against Ank until we got to his reads changing, at which point I understood it but didn't think it was very good.

The idea that mentioning one of the masons but not the other could be a scumtell is ridiculous. There's no scum motivation, and in fact no reason anyone would do it at all.

Nice filler post.

Page 60. I've been super busy. Trying to FINALLY finish Day 1.

Anyone have an actual reason for voting me asides from lurking?

zdenek tracked you to the kill on Irish Pope

zdenek why would you bus me like that that's a poor bus

*twitch*

Page 60. I've been super busy. Trying to FINALLY finish Day 1.

Anyone have an actual reason for voting me asides from lurking?

zdenek tracked you to the kill on Irish Pope

zdenek why would you bus me like that that's a poor bus

Page 65 now. I'm gonna try to get to that bandwagon soon, FINALLY.

How did you miss the masons, when you already read the pages? Not to mention you asked about them when you were on Page 40; I'm pretty sure the masons were on page 30ish.

How could you miss the most suspicious part of that post?

@Host

I am reading this daily just not sure what to post..

Content preferably, especially related to finding scum. At least try to pretend you're town at the very least.

To be honest it just seems like most of the posts here are bickering that is the main reason.

Then just ignore Serene. Besides, there's a lot of interesting stuff in here, especially now that we don't have to listen to Nero and Serene insult each other (which is also not on d2, i.e. today).

Yes I'd have to post if it's related to me isn't that a bit obvious?

But first you have to say his name 3 times.

I thank you for your town read and protection. Also how come you wanna admit being Kuribo now?

Buddying up now, are we?

On to page 118.

-Bulba

P-edit: Wait... Someone hammered?!

[BulbaFenix]

Koopa, state if you killed anybody during the previous night phase during your last post. We need as much information as we can get. Policy lynching Crabd tomorrow.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Thanks that's all I needed. Do you have any other strong or semi-strong reads?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Okay. Koopa is confirmed town. Back to catching up.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Page 119-125:

I think we're mutliball, but be careful saying that word because bulba has a hard on for me for suggesting it.

I love the attempt to discredit me. Recent events have made me think that I may be right.

ok

unvote

, I'm just being paranoid.

This feels fake.

The pressure comes off BulbaFenix and they vanish. I'm shocked.

The pressure comes off BulbaFenix and they vanish. I'm shocked.

VOTE: BulbaFenix

Activity levels and replacing out are not scumtells. No wonder you 2 are bad at finding scum with thought processes such as these. I mean, sheesh, Zdenek called me scum in a previous game, because he didn't like to read walls! These are not scumtells! Basing your reads on stupid crap such as this is going to do the town more harm than good, and we will end up losing the game, because you 2 can't learn to figure out what is and is not scummy!

Hey, Serene. Legit question. Which between BulbaFenix and Thirdkoopa do you want to lynch more? They're both scum, and quite blatantly obviously so, but we only have the power to lynch one of them. Will happily switch to BulbaFenix if that's your preference.

What was your case against us again? Because I don't believe you've ever legitimately made one. Also, attempt to buddy up to Serene noted.

BFenix is scum voting a townie, should switch vote.

You seem to have gotten your reads mixed up again.

I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down, Bulba. I gathered that, despite my defense, you suspect me over that. But since then you've been fitting the evidence to your read instead of vice versa and criticizing me for completely innocuous things. I'm not sure how you managed to interpret me saying, albeit indirectly, that I wasn't on board with the Ank wagon as a filler post. That is literally a concrete opinion.

Page 60. I've been super busy. Trying to FINALLY finish Day 1.

Anyone have an actual reason for voting me asides from lurking?

Yes.

I didn't really get the argument against Ank until we got to his reads changing, at which point I understood it but didn't think it was very good.

The idea that mentioning one of the masons but not the other could be a scumtell is ridiculous. There's no scum motivation, and in fact no reason anyone would do it at all.

You put little effort into answering Koopa's question concerning your case on him (a "yes" is not sufficient). You then comment on the recent events surrounding Ank, saying that you understand the argument but don't agree with it, and you disagree with the "not including both masons" scumtell. In essence, you are putting forth like you are contributing, but in actuality, you aren't saying much.

Also lol at fenix's "PL crabd" thing. You're a decent enough player that I would have expected you to recgonize the play.

I was quite behind at the time. I didn't know the status of the Koopa wagon, nor who was on it. The only reason I knew about the hammer was because posts about it ninja'd my post. If I was caught up, I probably would have noticed it.

On to page 126. Going to catch up on this game tonight.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I smell a rat. If they have daytime talk, they could've hatched a plan to save koopa. If one flips scum, the other is an easy lynch. He couldn't wait to claim, he kept hinting he was PR before.

So you criticize and call people scum for questioning a PR claim (mason), but then you proceed to...question a PR claim? This is the most ridiculous attempt to try to mislynch a town PR that I've ever seen. You're going, "Ooooh, scum could have day talk, and they came up with a 2-shot vig that hasn't shot. When some mystery person flips scum, we should lynch the confirmed town, because he was breadcrumbing his role." Seriously, that is ludicrous. There were at least a couple times catching up that I noticed almost blatant breadcrumbing from BEFORE Koopa was ever ran up. Not to mention that if this was a scum gambit, Koopa could have gotten away with claiming one of the night kills (I'm thinking TIP.), instead of admitting that he hasn't shot yet. Essentially, this is pure desperation on your part.

I was going to switch my vote, but this needs to be lynched ASAP.

Pedit: DOMO is clearly referring to Koopa and Crabd, and I find his hypothesis somewhat silly.

It's like you're going out of your way to be as non-committal as possible.

@ Thirdkoopa

Do everyone a favor and shoot BFenix tonight.

Really, this is flattering and all, but I'm starting to consider taking out a restraining order.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba, where were those breadcrumbs you mentioned?

I don't get the Stevie hate.

Look at the thread.
Look at the things Stevie has chosen to comment on.

^ This

not to add more WIFOM but stevie's either incredibly anti-town town or scum. after a mislynch yesterday though I'm not sure whether vigging him (If we have one) or VCA would be better. Hmm, choices.

He essentially soft claimed vig here.

Page 119-125:

I think we're mutliball, but be careful saying that word because bulba has a hard on for me for suggesting it.

I love the attempt to discredit me. Recent events have made me think that I may be right.

*attempts to discredit DOMO right back*

How is that discrediting DOMO? I've said multiple times that I think he is scum and why I think so.

Also, why would you defend someone else, especially on something that has nothing to do with you or anybody else, but are questions aimed specifically at that person. That is incredibly scummy, especially since what you did was not so much defending, but rather attacking, on a case that had nothing to do with you.

Disappearing under pressure is scummy if you were posting elsewhere (I don't know whether this is the case).

I explained that I have hardly been posting anywhere on site, mainly focusing on my first modded game. But you already know that your accusation is false, which makes this the equivalent of throwing dirt.

Hey, Serene. Legit question. Which between BulbaFenix and Thirdkoopa do you want to lynch more? They're both scum, and quite blatantly obviously so, but we only have the power to lynch one of them. Will happily switch to BulbaFenix if that's your preference.

What was your case against us again? Because I don't believe you've ever legitimately made one. Also, attempt to buddy up to Serene noted.

How dare you agree with or suggest sheeping the essentially confirmed town, Calcifer!

Stop cutting me off and answering other people's questions! I wanted Calcifer to restate his case, and you essentially patted him on the head and said, "It's okay. Cephy's here...".

"Yes" indicated that I had already given my reasons. I don't disagree with your summary of my post, but I do disagree with your assertion that I wasn't really contributing. I don't see how this post is unlike any other in that regard, and I'm literally giving my opinion on recent events.

What exactly did you contribute? That you understood the reasoning but didn't agree with it? All while not moving the conversation forward or contributing in the scumhunting effort whatsoever? That's not content. That's the illusion of content.

Your opinions lately feel really manufactured. I regret defending you.

Translation: "You should feel bad that I'm not on your side."

That's not town thought at all.

If you think my paranoid comment is fake, then I assume you feel the previous comment is fake too? You're suggesting that I'm faking retarded town thought process to gain town cred?

No, I think you're faking paranoia in an effort to look town.

And how am I trying to get a town PR mislynched? I notice you didn't quote my unvote of the very same town PR in the very same post. That wouldn't suuport your bullshit case though, would it? Check some rev meta, see my first game where rapid canyon scum pulls out a cop guilty on some guy I can't remember the name of. I smelled a rat then. rapid won lylo becuase I hammered majiffy. My paranoia of these kind of gambits is natural.

First, self-meta makes said meta invalid. Second, you are trying to soft push Koopa as likely scum by shedding doubt on his claim. You want others to do the work for you, and it's the same sort of thing you were criticizing just pages earlier. Not only do I think this is ill timed, but I also think that is hypocritic, since you were calling others scum for something similar only pages earlier. I just find the whole thing highly suspect.

Even if I was defending you though, I don't see what would be wrong with that.

Translation: "If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying I am, how would that be scummy?"

I'm not buddying you, you'll know when I'm buddying you because I'll call you town and agree with your points.

Translation: "I couldn't possibly be buddying you, because if I was, I'd be blatantly obvious. WIFOM. WIFOM. WIFOM."

The more Bulba and DOMO go at it, the more I think Bulbafenix is town and DOMO scum.

Go buddy someone else.

Our lynch for today is the horribad posting of BulbaFenix.
VOTE: BulbaFenix.

Case. Now.

The more Bulba and DOMO go at it, the more I think Bulbafenix is town and DOMO scum.

Well vote for me then. I won't argue with a DOMO vs bulba race. If I die, ceph shoots bulba, problem solved. No town roleblocker will stop ceph shooting bulba. I'm confident enough bulba will flip scum. I don't care which way round we die, so long as he flips scum. If he gets lynched and flips town, well ceph should probably shoot me.

I like a BRO vs bulba race more though. That's scum vs scum imo. I'm happy on either of these.

How could you get Ceph confused with Koopa?

In 3088 bulba goes straight for the PL. Not "oh shit day is ending here are my reads" but "omg lynch Crabd tomorrow on policy" Priorities, eh?

I happen to agree with BBMolla: Quickhammer without a claim or final thoughts is an automatic policy lynch. No exceptions.

Side note to Kuribo: You lied to me in Jungle Republic. I thought you had really caught up with the game.

Unvote

Vote Cephrir

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

So, help me fix that list guys.

Cephrir is scum. DOMO should at least be moved to null.

[BulbaFenix]

-Bulba (I need to stop forgetting that.)

[BulbaFenix]

Page 119-125:

I think we're mutliball, but be careful saying that word because bulba has a hard on for me for suggesting it.

I love the attempt to discredit me. Recent events have made me think that I may be right.

*attempts to discredit DOMO right back*

How is that discrediting DOMO? I've said multiple times that I think he is scum and why I think so.

Also, why would you defend someone else, especially on something that has nothing to do with you or anybody else, but are questions aimed specifically at that person. That is incredibly scummy, especially since what you did was not so much defending, but rather attacking, on a case that had nothing to do with you.

Hoo boy, I so do not want to start this wallfight, but evidently you aren't giving me a choice. If you can't see how that post is an attempt to discredit him, I can't help you. I got attacked for answering questions addressed to others in Amnesiac Mafia as well and I have yet to grasp why people see this as a problem. I saw you making a shitty case and I thought it was scummy, so I pointed out the flaws in your arguments. I will continue to debate shitty arguments regardless of who they are directed at.

First, his post was a backhanded attempt to discredit my case against him, which I find scummy. My post, however, did nothing to discredit him, unless you are now claiming that saying somebody is scum is discrediting them. Second, you were not "pointing out flaws" in my argument. You were full on attacking me. At no point did you go, "I think you're wrong because...". Instead you overtly attacked me. So yes, what you did was incredibly scummy, because answering questions or addressing points made to someone else takes the pressure off of that person.

Disappearing under pressure is scummy if you were posting elsewhere (I don't know whether this is the case).

I explained that I have hardly been posting anywhere on site, mainly focusing on my first modded game. But you already know that your accusation is false, which makes this the equivalent of throwing dirt.

I literally said I didn't know whether it was the case. If you said that already, I missed it. But you already knew that I didn't know my accusation was false since I said I wasn't sure, which makes this the equivalent of throwing dirt.

Don't give me that "I didn't know my accusation was false" bull crap. You are one of 5 people in this game that would know for sure whether I was active elsewhere or not. Even if you didn't know, you could always click on my name, go to my profile, and then check my activity. This "I couldn't possibly know" defense is bull crap, scummy, and is a lie.

Stop cutting me off and answering other people's questions! I wanted Calcifer to restate his case, and you essentially patted him on the head and said, "It's okay. Cephy's here...".

And I didn't like the way you did it, firstly. Secondly, I *didn't* answer the question and there is nothing preventing Calcifer from restating the case just because I commented on your question.

As soon as you address the question posed to somebody else, you eliminate the pressure that was on that person. Calcifer didn't have to answer anymore, because you eliminated the need to. And all so you could make a snide comment and deride my statement, all in an effort to discredit me.

I expressed that I was not scumreading Ank. By extension, I guess posting townreads is a waste of time as well? You could have picked most posts in this thread and found about as much content as that post, hell *I've* made a lot of posts with less content, so your singling that one out reads as looking for a reason to attack me.

First, that is

reductio ad absurdum

, as you are misrepresenting my argument and stretching it to an absurd level with that townread comment. Second, in that post you gave a throwaway answer ("yes"), followed by a comment on current events which did nothing to advance the argument. You did not contribute to the exchange. You merely acknowledged it. If you were town, you would tried to be more proactive, whether it was asking some questions of either party, or simply adding something new to the conversation. You did none of that. You were trying to appear helpful and look like you were contributing, when you actually were not. There is no town motivation to do that, but there is a lot of scum motivation.

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, particularly words that aren't there. I didn't say anything about how you should feel about it, I was just explicitly stating for the benefit of not you that I am officially no longer on your side.

You were implying that I should feel bad about it in some way. And why should it matter if you're on my side or not? Why should I care?

Even if I was defending you though, I don't see what would be wrong with that.

Translation: "If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying I am, how would that be scummy?"

Yes, good job, you rearranged my words and put "Translation" in front of them. Did you have a point, or are you hoping someone else finds a reason this is bad for you?

Didn't I mention? You're scum, and blatantly obvious, toying scum at that.

What? Buddying someone requires agreeing with them or thinking they're town by definition. It is not possible to buddy someone without doing one or both of those things. That's all there is to it.

For buddying, all you have to be is on different teams or alignments. And buddying is not about agreeing with a person, it's about saying, "I'm on your side.". Otherwise, buddying scum would always be spotted for how obvious they were being.

The more Bulba and DOMO go at it, the more I think Bulbafenix is town and DOMO scum.

Go buddy someone else.

Are you trying to make everyone want to lynch you? It's working.

I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be a popularity contest? I thought we were supposed to be finding scum, lynching scum, and contributing to a town win. If I am able to catch some scum and help town win, who cares how much I'm liked? Why should it matter? The only ones who would be worried about such things are scum, because they want to survive until endgame. Your whole outlook on this game comes from a scum mindset rather than a town mindset.

By the way, good job voting me before I vote you so it looks like my vote is the OMGUS one when it's really not.

VOTE: BulbaFenix

This feels like you are overjustifying your reason for voting me (i.e. OMGUS).

So, help me fix that list guys.

Cephrir is scum. DOMO should at least be moved to null.

Bulba, there are a ton of people who played a themed game with the Rev head of DOMO that just ended. Whatever our alignments in that game (and there's at least one player from every team playing this one), we all saw Rev's town game up close. We think we are seeing it again.

I can kinda see where lacking that recent mutual experience that several players have, some of our reads have looked inexplicable. And maybe that's part of why you've been seriously out of step with a bunch of players who are town-reading each other this game.

Fine. I'll concede the DOMO point for now. What about Cephrir?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Fine. I'll concede the DOMO point for now. What about Cephrir?

-Bulba

Maybe instead of exchanging walls with him wherein the two of you try to convince the other that they are scum, you could write it in list format and try to convince other players.

I'll type up a case tomorrow after I've calmed down a bit.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Well yeah, if someone is scum we shouldn't listen to their opinions.

That is, of course, assuming that town know who scum are, which my experience shows is not always the case. Until then, we need adequate discussion to gain the information needed to identify scum. Any form of squelching such discussion is scummy.

There is no difference in my view between pointing out flaws in your argument and attacking you, except that I was also saying your argument was scummy.

*Looks at original attack post*

You said my argument was scummy? Where? All I see is you trying to discredit all my arguments so that others don't have to address them. You set out to deliberately castrate me in this game, and that is an incredibly scummy move.

I wasn't cognizant whether you had posted elsewhere and didn't care nearly enough to check. I didn't say I couldn't possibly know, I could easily have checked, but I didn't.

So when I point out that activity is a null tell, your response is to say, "Well it is if you're active elsewhere on the site.", thus implying that I'm scum (or else you'd never have mentioned it), yet you never actually put forth the effort to check my activity level, even though you are softly implying that I'm scummy because of it? How is that not scummy again?

First of all, false. Calcifer is not released from the obligation of having to answer a question just because I thought the question was scummy. I didn't even answer it, but you have of course ignored that fact. That's stupid. I thought we just established that you think discrediting someone and calling them scum are different things, but I guess that's only the case when you want it to be.

As soon as you wrote that deriding comment, you discredited my entire position, which meant that Calcifer was no longer obligated to address it because you said that my point was not a valid one. That's why I find discrediting other's points scummy, because it is meant to eliminate the need to address those points, thus squelching discussion. You see, discrediting someone IS scummy, but calling someone scum IS NOT discrediting. However, you can't seem to understand this simple dichotomy, probably because you are scum and it would undermine everything you're trying to accomplish.

I expressed that I was not scumreading Ank. By extension, I guess posting townreads is a waste of time as well? You could have picked most posts in this thread and found about as much content as that post, hell *I've* made a lot of posts with less content, so your singling that one out reads as looking for a reason to attack me.

First, that is

reductio ad absurdum

, as you are misrepresenting my argument and stretching it to an absurd level with that townread comment.

It's not. If there is no point in posting that I don't think X is scummy, then there is no point in posting that I think X is town. The problem is not how I've interpreted your argument (and by the way you have ZERO right to complain about words being put in your mouth after your snotty "translations"), but your argument sucking.

You took a point about fake content, twisted it, and took it to an absurd level by saying that we should not give townreads. This, of course, had nothing to do with my point at all. However, you needed to do so in order to discredit my actual point, and in so doing, not actually address it.

I added to a different conversation.

What sort of conversation is that? Because it sure wasn't the town one.

I'm not going to continue this line of argument because what you just said does literally nothing to discredit what I said in 3280

Why would I want to discredit what you said? I want to address what you said and show why it's scummy. Discrediting you would be a scum move and would do nothing to further discussion. But then again, you've shown that you are thinking with a scum mindset again, as that is what scum want to do.

and is in fact irrelevant to my point that you basically picked a random post of which to make this criticism.

It wasn't random at all. I saw you make a completely useless post, and pointed it out as such, knowing that others would be able to see what was wrong with it. When asked about it, I expanded on the point, and explained exactly why the post was filler. You see, that post did absolutely nothing conversation-wise. The first part did absolutely nothing, as it was more curt than a "Look in my ISO", thus unnecessary. The rest of the post looked at the slapfight between Kuribo and Ank. You said that you could see the point, which essentially was giving you room to jump on the wagon later if it really took off, but that you didn't think it was valid. This is essentially the equivalent of checking in a Poker game. It does absolutely nothing. You then restated something that others in that discussion had already said, that only having one mason in a reads list was not a scumtell. That's it. No original opinion whatsoever. Your post served no purpose whatsoever, other than to look like town who was contributing to the conversation.

Is this a joke? I said I was stating it for the benefit of "not you". I don't give a damn what you think at this point. You can feel bad if you want, I don't give a fuck.

When you say "I regret defending you", there is an implication in there that I should feel bad or sorry that you are no longer defending me, as if I should be wanting you to like me. Again, why should I care? You are trying to make it out like I lost something important or valuable, but once again, you overlook the fact that only scum care what other people think, since they are approaching the game from a survivalistic point of view. Once again, you are showing that you are approaching the game with a scum mindset, not a town one.

Even if I was defending you though, I don't see what would be wrong with that.

Translation: "If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying I am, how would that be scummy?"

Yes, good job, you rearranged my words and put "Translation" in front of them. Did you have a point, or are you hoping someone else finds a reason this is bad for you?

Didn't I mention? You're scum, and blatantly obvious, toying scum at that.

So you're admitting that you had no argument here whatsoever?

Whenever I do a translation, my point is to show what is actually being said, thus showing the scumminess inherently hidden in the statement, rather than spend a paragraph expounding on why what was said was scummy. You see when you were speaking to DOMO in that sentence, you were doing so in hypotheticals. I simply took that inherent hypothetical, and made it more apparent. By speaking in hypotheticals, you essentially admitted that you were doing something scummy, while simultaneously saying you weren't ("If I was doing scummy action A, which I'm not saying I'm doing it mind you, but if I was, why is it scummy?"). Essentially, you are being blatantly obvious with the fact that you're scum and are toying with the town, daring them to come after you.

I disagree, nor do I believe buddying is inherently scummy.

Newsflash: Buddying IS scummy. So is chainsaw defending. So is white knighting. Now you can say "I'm not buddying. You're just misinterpretting my actions." as a defense, but you can't say "I'm buddying, but I'm not scum." as the definitions are already in place, and one implies the other. So, yes, buddying is scummy, and, yes, you are doing it.

Yes, wanting to lynch someone is the same as disliking them.

No, wanting to lynch someone is the same as thinking they're scum. There are a bunch of players that I don't like for one reason or the other, whether it was due to playstyle, personality, or some other difference, but that didn't always mean that I thought they were scum or wanted to lynch them. In this game, our hydra is having a bit of a clash with Serene. Now I may disagree with a lot of what Serene says, but given the events of this game, there is no way that I'll ever lynch them (Fenix, you might want to listen to the next part.). Part of being successful at this game is taking our own biases into account and making sure that they aren't getting in the way of finding scum. We should think a player is scummy because what they said or did was scummy and was coming from a scum mindset, not because we don't like what they said or how they're playing the game.

Best example I can give is from Voided's Nightless Mountainous game. In it, I got chewed out by the Tammy head of Titan. And man, was I mad. But even though I didn't like what she said, and told her as such, her approach to the situation read as not only genuine, but extremely town, and Titan was a major townread of mine for the rest of the game.

Essentially, popularity or being liked has nothing to do with the lynches. We are here to find and lynch scum, so when we think we've found scum due to their actions, we lynch them. At no point should whether we like them or not enter the picture, and at no point should town worry if they're liked or not, since town wants to find and lynch scum. Scum want to be liked so that they don't get lynched. Town could care less as long as they find scum. The fact that you are focusing on whether somebody is liked or not as a basis for a lynch once again tells me that you are tackling this game from a scum mindset and not a town one.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Cephrir case:

1.) He's playing it extremely safe when it comes to taking stances. Save for a few reads on the fringes, he's refusing to take a stance on the actions or alignment of the players in this game. Seriously, is what Ank or Brian doing town, scummy, null? Give us something! Not just, "silly" or "it could be viewed as such" or "I see your point". All of this is extremely weak, as if he doesn't want to offend anybody. And if you disagree, why mention that you see that point anyway? Because by disagreeing, you obviously don't! All he's doing by saying stuff like that is keeping his options open for later on.

2.) When he does follow through on the line of thought that he left open, he still doesn't push it hard. Look at his stance on our wagon. He says, "Well, it can obviously be X, but that is a good point. Bulba should be lynched.", while not voting or pushing our wagon at all. Later, when Orcinus and BRO start taking apart the logic that was driving the wagon, Cephrir immediately backpedals and said "I had a momentary lapse. Bulba is town.", again siding with whoever was in charge of the momentum. Again, I want to remind you he did all this WHILE NEVER VOTING, in other words, he still avoided taking a definite stance, even when he was backing the wagon. If you want another post where he refused to take a stance and distanced himself from what he said, look here.

3.) He is not actually contributing, but rather pretending to in order to appear town. Again, his refusing to take stances are examples of this. And even better example is his post #2898, which I have explained in detail why it is bad.

4.) He's buddying up to other players, particularly DOMO.

5.) He's attempting to discredit cases, rather than disprove them. As I've said before, doing so is a major scumtell for me, as the whole purpose of discrediting a case is so you don't have to actually address. This squelches discussion, which is a scumtell.

6.) Going to condense this into one point instead of multiple: He is tackling this game from a scum mindset, rather than a town one.

7.) He's actually being incredibly overt with the fact that he's scum and is toying with the town, daring us to come after him. This can be seen in his hypothetical to DOMO ("If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying that I am, how would that be scummy?"). He's not content with just playing mindgames with town. He wants to openly mock us. And for that, I don't want to just lynch him. I want to crucify him, then set the corpse on fire, all while we dance around the flames, and Kuribo reads him his last rites. After that, I want to mount his head on a pike as a warning to all future arrogant scum.

[BulbaFenix]

EBWODP:

6.) Going to condense this into one point instead of multiple: He is tackling this game from a scum mindset, rather than a town one. This can be seen in the fact that he is viewing the game more as a popularity contest, rather than a search for scum, which is survivalistic. It is more important for him that people like him. As such, he doesn't want to lynch scum, only those he does not like, and thinks others should do the same (i.e. not scumhunting, but perpetual mislynching). He thinks that having people on your side is more important than finding scum, and uses that as a way to induce guilt ("I'm not going to defend you. How do you feel about that?"). All of these things are things that scum care about, rather than town. He's scum, and he's reflecting his motivations onto others when he addresses them, and it betrays his actual motivations in return.

Sorry about the early post. Pushed the wrong button while I was on Skype. Anyways, Cephrir needs to wear rope.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

congrats, you're the king of twisting words, i can't argue with someone who's going to ignore my rebuttals and carry on as though they were never made except when he wants to cherry pick one word choice to make me look bad

ugh, i'll probably fucking try to respond anyway, i'm just mad and feeling demotivated

i can't deal with this shit today, see you when that changes

you have a real knack for sounding like you're winning an argument when you're actually just hoping no one notices how blatantly full of shit you are

i need to shut up now

RUN COWARD!

[BulbaFenix]

Rift, you never gave your thoughts on Cephrir. I cornered him, showed why what he was doing was scummy, and now he's running scared. I want that scummy piece of filth deaded by a rope.

[BulbaFenix]

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Vote: BulbaFenix

I'd rather him than Ank today. Probably won't bother shooting Ank so he can get a result.

We've got five days to get this cracking.

i can't deal with this shit today, see you when that changes

It's okay it happens to the best of us. Take a break. I had to sit down for a bit when I started freaking out over that "Hammer" on me.

Hello Third. Talk to me for a bit (Fenix head). Why are you voting for us?

VOTE: Bulbafenix

We're in agreement on this.

Townbloc needs to finalize the lists of players to vig and to investigate.

So, why the vote on us? It seems like you keep going back and forth. Like I told Koopa, talk to me.

I also want to propose a few questions for the group as a whole.

Who would be a doc/save for you?
Who would you shoot if you had a one shot vig?
Who would you scan with a one shot cop scan?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

TBH your reaction to the fakehammer is pretty troubling. I can see relative newbs standing around asking wtf, but an experienced town player knowing the hammer had fallen would have some priorities.

My priority was catching up with the game.

VOTE: BulbaFenix.

Our lynch for today is the horribad posting of BulbaFenix.
VOTE: BulbaFenix.

Case. Now.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Yeah. Still ain't buying the Bulba wagon.

Goat, what are your thoughts on it?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Rift, you never gave your thoughts on Cephrir. I cornered him, showed why what he was doing was scummy, and now he's running scared. I want that scummy piece of filth deaded by a rope.

Your post 3321 reads like a smear job. In every instance you've put Cephrir's posts in the most negative possible light, and have really stretched to get the light there. I have played with scum players who are that calculating and who make every single post push one of their agendas, but they are rare, and most of them do this inside of a town suit or they die. Cephrir's posts just don't read that way. The only way to see so many of the posts in that light is to start with the assumption that he's scum and then look for scum motivation until you can find one.

If you were that tinfoil, I think you'd be tinfoiling about a bunch more players. Because it's almost always possible to build a scum case if you start with the assumption that a player is scum.

So I give you a summary of why I think a player is scum, and transparently so at that, and your reaction is to discount it because "Bulba's being mean"? I mean, seriously, that's been your stance on us and why we're scum this entire game. "Bulba's applying pressure on people he thinks has displayed scummy intention. He's being mean to scum. He must be scum and stopped." I'm not even sure you've been reading what I've even said, based on your reaction. You're just ignoring it, saying I'm being mean, and then voting me. Sheesh. No wonder we can't get anywhere. As much as I hate to agree with Serene, they're absolutely right! Nobody in this entire town wants to actually find and lynch scum! If anybody tries, the wagon they push either disintegrates, or they are called scum themselves for actually pushing on scummy players. It's sickening. You've turned this into a popularity contest instead of an actual scumhunt, and as such, you're playing right into scums' hands. If this town does not get their heads out of their collective butts, then we will lose, and deservedly so, I think.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a VCA to do. I think Cephrir's going to try to lurk out the rest of the day and hope our lynch goes through. Contrary to your opinion, I think he is that calculating as scum, and he is playing a high level of mind game. His one weakness is that he folds under pressure, which is why he ran away after I countered his weak arguments.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Your reaction to the fake-hammer is a bigger deal to me in terms of your alignment.

Why? I found out about it when Koopa's reaction and claim ninja'd my catch-up post. I then went back to see who hammered. Upon finding out that it was Crabd, I said that he should be policy lynched the next day for quickhammering. I spent the rest of the time trying to get as much information out of Koopa as possible, such as if he had made any kills the previous night (I thought that TIP was a vig. kill.) and if he had any other strong or semi-strong scum or town reads. Everybody's been focusing on the PL statement only, which I stand behind 100% in the event of a quickhammer.

[BulbaFenix]

-Bulba (I need to stop forgetting that...)

[BulbaFenix]

BulbaFenix (6)

- StevieT92,

Zdenek

,

Calcifer

,

DOMO

, Baby Spice,

Serene

BulbaFenix (9)

-

DOMO

, Marquis, Cephrir, KingCrabd,

Serene

, Thirdkoopa, RiftAdrift,

Calcifer

,

Zdenek

Okay, given a typical ratio of 1:3, we're looking at 6 scum this game, which may or may not include a SK. That means that we should expect at least half on our wagon.

With the earlier wagon, we should be looking for about 3 scum, with 1 scum off the wagon verbally supporting it (that'd be Cephrir). There may be the slight chance of 4 scum on the wagon, but I'd say that's unlikely, and if it is the case, there are no more than that. For the first wagon, I'd break it into possible scum as follows:

Scum on wagon: StevieT92, Calcifer, DOMO
Scum verbally supporting wagon: Cephrir
Outside chance of being scum in 4 scum eventuality: Zdenek

Let's examine the second wagon. Same probabilities, although this one doesn't have anybody soft supporting it. It is far more likely that this wagon contains a fourth scum member on board, but we'll still treat it as unlikely. It breaks down as follows:

Scum on wagon: Cephrir, Marquis, Calcifer
Outside chance of being scum in 4 scum eventuality: DOMO

Now to analyze both wagons together:

People on both wagons: Zdenek, Calcifer, DOMO, Serene
Wagon 1 Scum Pool: StevieT92, Calcifer, DOMO, Cephrir, Zdenek
Wagon 2 Scum Pool: Cephrir, Marquis, Calcifer, DOMO
Shared Scum Pool: Calcifer, DOMO, Cephrir
Repeaters (from highest to lowest): Calcifer(4), DOMO(4), Cephrir(3), Zdenek(2)

Just based on simple VCA, it is highly likely that Calcifer and DOMO are scum. If you add context to the VCA, Cephrir is added to that list. Zdenek also has an outside chance of being scum, based on VCA theory alone.

Now to examine the reasons for being on the wagon:

DOMO

- They've been pushing our slot since the beginning of the day, no surprise there. I think they're scum, but multiple people have said that they're playing to their town meta, so they get a pass for now.

Marquis

- No clue. He's mainly trying to sheep popular opinion. I almost wonder if he's trying to appear VI on purpose or shoot for the "too scummy to be scum" fallacy. To be honest, the only reason why I thought MS was town was because his play looked similar to what I had seen before, and I thought that he was probably a vig. Marquis's play is making me think that I may have been wrong and that he's just scum.

Cephrir

- OMGUS. I've already explained in detail why he's scum.

KingCrabd

- They're looking to pressure me to see what happens. They didn't like my reaction to the fakehammer, which is too bad for them. We're not exactly likely to get NK'd given the obsession of several players to lynch us, and even if we did bite it, it shouldn't be that difficult to figure out what our reads were. Besides, it was more important to get information from the PR that we thought was being lynched, rather than put out another reads list.

Serene

- Serene being Serene. I'm chalking this one up to DGB's bad scumdar. She pushed for my mislynch in Voided's game. She's doing the same thing here. This hydra needs to get its head in the game and actually analyze players rather than just call the scum for contrived reasons. I think they will get better when Kuribo comes into his own, but until then, they're getting in the way.

Thirdkoopa

- Not sure really. I'd like him to explain why he thinks we're scum. My best guess is a compromise lynch.

RiftAdrift

- Ffery has been paranoid about me ever since Donner Party. No clue about Syryana. They have since unvoted and opened up a dialogue.

Calcifer

- We have asked them for a case repeatedly, and they continue to ignore us. I'm not so sure about this hydra anymore, not because Nacho hasn't townread me, but because I would have expected a precise case from him that I could dissect. However, they have not provided such a case. Add in Mastin's AtE to Serene d1, and their attempts at buddying up to them, and I'm starting to think that I was wrong and Calcifer is scum. I'm also starting to think that Cephrir may have been chainsaw defending them when he went out of his way to discredit me on my Calcifer buddy point.

Zdenek

- HIs recent vote is confusing to me, as I thought he had moved away from a Bulba-scum read. Regardless, his reads are based on horribad tells. My experience with him indicates that he likely doesn't know what a scumtell is, but he was town in my last game with him (where he called me scum because I post walls), so he's likely town here as well. I'd like to see a more concise case from him.

Current Reads

Town

Thirdkoopa
Rift Adrift
Orcinus_theoriginal
BROseidon
KingCrabd
Serene
Dramonic
Baby Spice
The Goat

Null/Town

Zdenek

Null

StubbsKVM
Brian Hollywood
Ankamius

Null/Scum

DOMO

Scum

Shadi 1337
TMTOLBTWNTOF
Marquis
Calcifer
StevieT92
Cephrir

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I'd like to see a more concise case from him.

The case is that I think you fabricated hydra-dissonance between your heads regarding your read of Serene, and all of your attempts to explain it seem like lies.

You can't fabricate me wanting to see Serene strung up a fucking tree. I've already told Bulba head that IF I find out Serene is scum after this is all said and done, I will hold it over him and NEVER let him forget.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

@Serene: I'm normally not one to focus on VCA. This is the third time I've done an analysis on my wagon in a game. The first time was in Amurika Mafia, where I used my wagon early in the game to scumhunt, reasoning that 2 of the 3 scum were on the wagon. In actuality, all 3 of them were, but I didn't realize that. The other time that I used VCA was when I was about to die in Voided's game. That served the same purpose as the VCA here did, which was to point town in the right direction when I die. Of course, nobody payed attention to it whatsoever, and town managed to mislynch 2 more times.

If I were to look at any other VCA, I wouldn't pay much attention to Nero's lynch wagon, because that was more of a policy lynch, and everybody wanted him dead. By itself, that wagon wouldn't tell us much. The Koopa wagon would be enlightening, though. I think comparing all 3 major wagons together would probably give us something. I might work on that should we survive today. In general, though, I don't really rely on VCA to find scum. I think it can be a useful tool to identify potential scum, yes, but it's not enough to base a case on.

I'd like to see a more concise case from him.

The case is that I think you fabricated hydra-dissonance between your heads regarding your read of Serene, and all of your attempts to explain it seem like lies.

Then there's nothing much I can do to stop you from pursuing such a horribad case. Hydra dissonence is not scummy, and the Serene argument is one that we've been having in the hydra for awhile.

btw how the fuck is Brian Hollywood null?

I didn't see anything in his posts that made me lean one way or another. Plus he's getting replaced. I figure that his replacement can shed a lot of light on his alignment.

The attempt to discredit individually every player on the wagon?

I was just looking at every player's reason for being on our wagon. So far I really don't see a good case from anybody. Crabd might come the closest, but that's it. All I see are illusionary cases, and nobody seems to want to expound on it further when asked.

Attempting to buddy me after saying he wanted to argue with me?

I was actually going to ignore you. Fenix wanted to tangle, but then he went V/LA this week and left me in charge. Right around the time Cephrir went full on scum in sight of everybody, I put him back on a leash. We're not going to get anywhere if we are not united, and it's starting to turn into a bit of a distraction.

It's pretty obvious Bulba has lost all attempt to make his read on me look consistent.

It's like you forgot there were 2 of us in here. I put you in the town pile after your mason claim. I was just set to ignore you. Fenix wanted to tangle.

When did I stop being null due to a hydra disagreement?

When we reanalyzed our reads at the beginning of d2. I was the head responsible for moving you fully into the town pile. Fenix gave me no end of grief for it.

Now tell me why orci isn't in the "verbally pushing my wagon" list?

Because he isn't pushing our wagon. I don't think we ever stopped being a town read for him, iirc.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Then there's nothing much I can do to stop you from pursuing such a horribad case. Hydra dissonence is not scummy, and the Serene argument is one that we've been having in the hydra for awhile.

My issue isn't hydra dissonanc

e, and every time you mis-rep my case, it makes me want you dead that much more.

The case is that

I think you fabricated hydra-dissonance

between your heads regarding your read of Serene, and all of your attempts to explain it seem like lies.

Want to run that by me again?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Then there's nothing much I can do to stop you from pursuing such a horribad case. Hydra dissonence is not scummy, and the Serene argument is one that we've been having in the hydra for awhile.

My issue isn't hydra dissonanc

e, and every time you mis-rep my case, it makes me want you dead that much more.

The case is that

I think you fabricated hydra-dissonance

between your heads regarding your read of Serene, and all of your attempts to explain it seem like lies.

Want to run that by me again?

-Bulba

FABRICATED

And we've said before that there is nothing fake about our disagreement over Serene. The hydra dissonance is quite real. You choosing not to believe it doesn't make it any less real. Therefore, your real issue is with hydra dissonance. I have not misrepped you in the slightest.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Then where was Fenix when you let him off the leash at the start of the day?

I poked a bit with Serene, BUT, I can't argue with Serene (not sure which head.... Since there's 3) for very long without wanting to set fire to my internet box

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

So you won't push on a strong scum read because you find it infuriating?

With Serene, yes. I REFUSE to go full retard over the internet. Anyone else though, I'm willing to banter and fight with because I can pick apart any legit argument thrown my way and THAT'S my issue with Serene... No actual, factual, analysis or banter... Just fucking derp perp merp herp and kdfhasdlkfjhsakljdfhsladkjfhdsljkfhsdkljfnsdkljfhsdkljfaljdhf baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Granting, it's ME having that feeling. BUT, I take my partner at his word on how HE is reading the slot.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

BulbaFenix is pretty clearly flailing right now, and I don't know what possessed DGB to think he's town, but I assure you I read that slot as scum. I've wavered on it myself, but this is the conclusion I'm at. If I have to convince DGB of that, then fine. If I have to tear into them, then fine. But it's one of my strongest reads at the moment.

Who are your scumreads? Give us a list from weakest to strongest with reasons.

I'm starting to think that BFenix's self-wagon analysis was just a ploy. I asked

him

to to a real WA and he's not interested.

-DGB

If we live, I'll use the night phase to go over the major wagons. If we die, then you have my analysis to find scum. If you ignore that, then I'll sit in the dead QT and laugh at the town while they destroy themselves.

Syr and I have spent a ridiculous amount of time discussing BulbaFenix. We both think he's scum and we don't want his wagon to fade.

Then you must have some good reasons. I'd like a condensed case please.

I will deal with this before I go to sleep this evening

I wait with bated breath.

I do not think that anybody would genuinely talk down to their partner in-thread like that.

This is our first time in a hydra, and as a result, the hydra is teething. Apparently, I don't play well with others. We're working on it.

Syr has played with town-Bulbazak. He's seeing some major differences in this game.

Syr has been in 2 completed games where I was town. In Voided, DGB was starting to wear me down when Syr replaced in. By the middle of d3, I had accepted that I was going to die, and I decided that I would take DGB, who I thought was scum, down with me and began trolling the crap out of them. In Jungle Republic, I was beginning to suffer from burnout and was apathetic for the entire game. Several people who had played with me before in that game noted that I was not playing to my usual standards. If Syr is using that as a basis for my play here, he has a bad sample to work with.

-Bulba

P-edit: Koopa, you have my answer about the analysis. As for Ank, I'd advise that you don't shoot him during the night. If he is not NK'd, get a result from him. Town shouldn't lynch him tomorrow, either, but you should vig. him on n3 to save town the lynch. If Ank dies during n2 and flips cop, though, you have confirmed town in Baby Spice.

[BulbaFenix]

How is hydra dissonance even a town read? Why would they feel the need to fabricate it? Has anyone even townread them because of hydra dissonance?

It makes it appear as though they are having conversations about their reads on people, so that we will think they are legitimate.

So that you will think we are legitimate? What? Are you saying that you don't think we're a hydra?

Bump Zdenek out of Null/Town. There's no way he's this obtuse.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

So that you will think we are legitimate? What? Are you saying that you don't think we're a hydra?

The reads you fool.

So, the fact that we have a varying opinions on a few of our reads and we decided to instead of making 2 totally separate lists, we decide to combine reads and even make a note of BOTH OUR thoughts on the reads that are DIFFERENT on the list... Makes it "fake hydra dissonance" and the reads themselves "fake"?

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

So that you will think we are legitimate? What? Are you saying that you don't think we're a hydra?

The reads you fool.

So, the fact that we have a varying opinions on a few of our reads and we decided to instead of making 2 totally separate lists, we decide to combine reads and even make a note of BOTH OUR thoughts on the reads that are DIFFERENT on the list... Makes it "fake hydra dissonance" and the reads themselves "fake"?

-Fenix

Nope. It's exactly the one read that I think you have pretended to disagree on.

When Bulba head comes back, he can give you the whole she-bang scoop on how much I've poked the hell and bugged him about Serene being scum (I told him, if Serene turns out to be scum, I WILL hold it over him for the rest of his mafia scum life). I STILL don't trust Serene either. As for this...

This needs answering:

Why didn't you even present the case that you used to convince Bulba to let you off the leash in the thread at the start of the day?

I pestered him with the same things over and over and over again. The anti-town behavior, the claim of townie mason/neighbors that I thought was fake from Serene to protect his mafia partner Dramonic, Dramonic being lurky and not doing a damn thing from the start. Add to the fact that since everyone seemed to just prattle along after the claim with oh! His claim is legit!! Moving on now. No reason to keep looking this way, bugged the hell out of me... Taking something like that at face value is something I refuse to do with all that other evidence resting in the back of my mind. Cop/Doc claim is the ONLY thing I could consider to take at face value and even then, I would be watching the cop/doc as the game went forward IF they lived longer than the usual time between their claim time and their death time (usually, a cop will last a night or 2 before they die from the mafia lynching them). The claim has gotten Serene/Dramonic a free pass from Bulba, but not ME. I understand that this is a normal game set up and there wouldn't be "bastard" roles (mafia/townie mason, insane cop, etc.). BUT, from my experience in other games not on this site, that sort of set up can happen and is considered normal TO ME.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

We answered your question a long time ago. You just haven't been listening. That horse you're riding is not only dead, but it is a pile of bones laying in the desert, and you're the crazy hobo hopping around, talking to yourself, and thinking that sand dune in the distance is a windmill/giant.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

You realize that doesn't answer my question right?

We answered your question a long time ago. You just haven't been listening. That horse you're riding is not only dead, but it is a pile of bones laying in the desert, and you're the crazy hobo hopping around, talking to yourself, and thinking that sand dune in the distance is a windmill/giant.

-Bulba

No... No... The horse he's been riding is one of those quarter insert horses. He keeps thinking that the thing is running on one quarter. But, in reality, it's his own delusion because he's locked in the padded room of the local Looney Bin, rocking himself back and forth in a straight jacket singing "Wanted Dead or Alive" by Bon Jovi.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I've also revisited the Donner party thread, thinking about our interactions, particularly the subtle AtE on the final day. In that game you were never under pressure. In this one, you've been under pressure since you first posted because of your predecessor, and while that's an unfortunate situation no matter what your alignments, I've seen people turn scummier-looking town slots around quite easily, and have done so myself. I think town-bulbafenix would manage it.

It depends on the people in the town. Those in this town are more than happy to go after illusionary tells, and refuse to listen when told they are wrong and why they are wrong. As for me, a simple meta search would show you that I tend to be wagoned a lot, and while I can shift the momentum when necessary, it requires a level headed town as well. If you'll notice, the wagon on us didn't really start soaring until we replaced in and actually started pressuring people. I think the main complaint is "Bulba's being means to people.", when in reality I'm trying to pressure them to get information. This town does not want to scum hunt, and when somebody actually tries to nail scum's feet to the floor, the wagon on that suspect either disappears, or they attack the person because he was pressuring the person he thought was scummy. So don't pull that, "You could have gotten the wagon off of you." crap, because it is a two way streak that requires a town willing to find scum.

ftr Syr and I find the intra-hydra interactions pretty odd, too, unless Fenix is really uncomfortable/inexperienced as scum.

Fenix is scary as scum and can argue me into a standstill. We just have different philosophies, site meta, and playstyles. I don't think it's strange at all to see a clash.

What scum games do you feel are more typical of your play?

This is a loaded question, and as such, I will not be answering it. You seem to have already reached the conclusion that we are scum and are twisting data to fit that conclusion. If you want actual meta, just ask me, or even search for it yourself. I have 6 town games and 2 scum games on site. Most of Fenix's experience is off site.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Not until L-1.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

no, lynch in a few hours please

If you think we are scum, why does it matter when we get lynched?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I never claim before L-1.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

ok. how about games more representative of town-you than the games syr played with you?

Going to give you a few based on certain reasons:

Amurika Mafia - Part of me wants to say that this isn't representative and that I've grown, but it keeps coming up, so the game is still an integral part of my meta.

True Love - Was Lovers with Bo. Might give you an idea what I'd look like in a hydra.

Newbie 1349 - I'm town. Fenix is scum.

Also, I'm not sure how much you've read Voided yourself Ffery. And I'm not sure what Syry took away, since he was scum. There are some representative plays in there that might help, and while it wouldn't work well with only Jungle Republic to compare it to, hopefully with these other games, you can get a better feel for my town play.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I thought they were already voting us?

@Mod: Can we have a vote count?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I am fully capable of providing a reads list and have an opinion on ever player in the game right now, even if it's null. I was leaning town on Ank until the claim, which made me less sure. Brian is null for me off the top of my head. I may respond to particular points in the way you describe but that doesn't mean I don't have opinions. I'm not the type of player to shout all my reads to the heavenes constantly so that no one forgets any of them- I make it clear when I have a strong read one way or the other, though, and will step up to defend those reads. The only really strong reads I've had thus far are orci (town), Zdenek (town), you (scum), thirdkoopa (scum, pre-hammer fiasco). I'm close to adding RA and Crabd to the town list and had Letters/Bro/Shadi as stronger scum reads than I currently do at points in the past. If you think it's scummy that I haven't been offending anyone or taking a lot of strong stances, you have not done even a half second of meta on me.

If you are so capable about providing reads, or even talking about your reads, why aren't you doing so? Why aren't you using language that echoes what you think of those players? If you're town, you'd want to share such things with the town, but you have not, and have been very wishy washy with said reads. And no, I'm not going to meta you, because I don't have the time and don't feel like it.

I wrote ONE POST where I was starting to rethink my stance on you. I did not say "Bulba should be lynched" at that time, that's just not true. In my very next post, if I recall correctly, it had been pointed out that something was wrong with the argument I was buying into. Therefore, I returned to my original position.

That's called backpedaling. My entire problem was that you kept your options open to jump on my wagon, because "I believe that it means X (the actual meaning), but others think otherwise, so it must be scummy.". You then immediately backpedaled when BRO and Orcinus deflated the wagon using logic. If that was logical town thought, you would at least have voted, like DOMO did, but you did not, which is scum motivated. And you trying to claim that you're town who just "started to rethink his stance" on me is pathetic, because that obviously meant that you didn't have a strong stance to begin with.

The post you linked to does not demonstrate me distancing myself from what I said. Openly suggesting vigging the masons was such a ridiculous idea that I thought it was a towntell that someone would suggest it. While we're at it, all I do in that post is say I got a towntell off orci, and you immediately accused me of buddying him.

You weren't buddying Orc? You told Serene to "stop badgering orc, he's clearly town.". That's clearly you trying to get on Orc's good side, i.e. buddying. And just from that, there was no indication of you supporting vigging Dramonic. But you ended the post with "Please note that this post does not actually condone vigging dram.". This looks like you got nervous and didn't want to be associated with the idea, i.e. distancing.

It's obvious that you don't understand how buddying works.

Pretty sure I do, since I just described it. Nice attempt to discredit, btw.

You claim to have explained it detail why it's bad but all you've said about that post is "look Ceph's not contributing he's not contributing look how unhelpful this post is". That is literally the opposite of a detailed explanation, and when I've asked for one (e.g. how this post is any worse in that regard than any arbitrary post) you have had no argument. You have yet to present an argument for how I'm not contributing to this game other than "You're not contributing to this game". It's complete bullshit.

So I never explained what was wrong with that post? Then what did I do here:

It wasn't random at all. I saw you make a completely useless post, and pointed it out as such, knowing that others would be able to see what was wrong with it. When asked about it, I expanded on the point, and explained exactly why the post was filler. You see, that post did absolutely nothing conversation-wise. The first part did absolutely nothing, as it was more curt than a "Look in my ISO", thus unnecessary. The rest of the post looked at the slapfight between Kuribo and Ank. You said that you could see the point, which essentially was giving you room to jump on the wagon later if it really took off, but that you didn't think it was valid. This is essentially the equivalent of checking in a Poker game. It does absolutely nothing. You then restated something that others in that discussion had already said, that only having one mason in a reads list was not a scumtell. That's it. No original opinion whatsoever. Your post served no purpose whatsoever, other than to look like town who was contributing to the conversation.

Misrep me and lie again. I dare you.

4.) He's buddying up to other players, particularly DOMO.

If arguing with your case is buddying DOMO then sure, I'm buddying him all day and all night.

Again, you needlessly defended him and answered a question directed at him in order to get on his good side. Even DOMO recognized it.

In what universe is arguing that your case isn't any good because look at all these ways your argument is bad not disproving it? What's even the distinction here? How can I prove anything in a mafia game without a flip? This point might as well be a bunch of random letters, it's a completely meaningless accusation.

You were not arguing against the merits of my case. How is this:

How dare you agree with or suggest sheeping the essentially confirmed town, Calcifer!

arguing the merits of the case? This is discrediting what I said! Pure and simple. That quote was in response to me asking Calcifer for their case on me, and noting that they were buddying Serene really badly (something they've been trying to do since Mastin's AtE d1). That was not deserving of a response from you at all. You jumped in there, discredited everything I said, which essentially was saying "Don't worry Calcifer. I've saved you from the big bad Bulba...". In fact, that entire post was you ruining whatever reactions I would have gotten and discrediting me in such a way as to make you look better. It's a scum move.

6.) Going to condense this into one point instead of multiple: He is tackling this game from a scum mindset, rather than a town one.

I can't argue with blanket statements, I guess people will have to read the walls and decide for themselves on that one......

You're obviously not paying attention too much. I accidentally submitted the case before I was done with #6. Here is the complete point:

6.) Going to condense this into one point instead of multiple: He is tackling this game from a scum mindset, rather than a town one. This can be seen in the fact that he is viewing the game more as a popularity contest, rather than a search for scum, which is survivalistic. It is more important for him that people like him. As such, he doesn't want to lynch scum, only those he does not like, and thinks others should do the same (i.e. not scumhunting, but perpetual mislynching). He thinks that having people on your side is more important than finding scum, and uses that as a way to induce guilt ("I'm not going to defend you. How do you feel about that?"). All of these things are things that scum care about, rather than town. He's scum, and he's reflecting his motivations onto others when he addresses them, and it betrays his actual motivations in return.

7.) He's actually being incredibly overt with the fact that he's scum and is toying with the town, daring us to come after him. This can be seen in his hypothetical to DOMO ("If I was buddying you, and I'm not saying that I am, how would that be scummy?"). He's not content with just playing mindgames with town. He wants to openly mock us. And for that, I don't want to just lynch him. I want to crucify him, then set the corpse on fire, all while we dance around the flames, and Kuribo reads him his last rites. After that, I want to mount his head on a pike as a warning to all future arrogant scum.

This point is worse than point 5, if that's even possible. Why in the sweet merciful fuck would I do this? Like anyone who actually reads this paragraph will recognize that it's preposterous, I don't even know why you bothered to write it or thought this would be convincing.

You would do this, because you think you can get away with this. This is actually the most important point of my case. One on which I will expound on at a later time.

Rift, now that you've seen Cephrir's response, thoughts?

Also, I believe Rift's vote still puts us at L-2.

@Mod: Can we have a vote count please?

Anybody who votes before we get a vote count is admitting they're scum and should be lynched tomorrow.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

You might need this.



-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Now I believe you were going to talk to us about Cephrir.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I can't take this anymore.

Thanks for the gif... I've been doing this with Serene's line of "logic" a LOT.

[BulbaFenix]

I can't take this anymore.

Thanks for the gif... I've been doing this with Serene's line of "logic" a LOT.

-Fenix... Derp...

[BulbaFenix]

Anybody who votes before we get a vote count is admitting they're scum and should be lynched tomorrow.

-Bulba

Vote Bulba

I agree with Orc on the scum theatre comment.
In fact it reminds me of, well, me in a lovers multiball game bussing my partner.
Worked for a while too.

That should be L-1.


Bloody phone, had to do the factory settings thing.

If Ank is not the cop, there's a noose next to ours with your name on it.

I'm a VT. My partner is a TV.



He's dyslexic.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Unfortunately he doesn't get HBO either.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Pretty sure that was hammer.

Bulba, if you're on, and you're town, anything else to say?

Also metal sonic needs to discuss his claim before night hits, preferrably.

I'm going to laugh at everyone who listens to Serene in the dead QT after you see our flip. Follow Bulba's arguments.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbafenix

I'm still not sure actually. But I don't really buy the case on Cephrir and there's 8 out of 10 people on your wagon that I'm townreading. No reason for stalling this any longer.

That's a horrible reason, and he's dodging responsibility. Stubbs is scum.

I'm going to laugh at everyone who listens to Serene

Don't worry, scum, no one listens to us anyway.

They just followed you on a mislynch for the second day in a row.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Also, Crabd, I'm pretty sure Calcifer is scum.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

It must suck for Metal Sonic that his replacement outed him as scum...

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

bulba, is there is anyone else in my town/lean-town list you think is scum and didn't say earlier?

Domo

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

Possibly Zdenek and DOMO. But I wouldn't worry about them until later and you have some scum flips. Stevie, TMT, and Shadi also need death. If Ank ends up not being the cop, Baby Spice should die for that L-1 vote (I said to hold off for a reason.). Stubbs should at least be looked into for that hammer. It was atrocious. I know that's more than 6 people, but I'm sure you'll be able to narrow it down from there. You have my final posts and analysis, including the case on Cephrir. String him up for us. If you don't, and decide to ignore us, then you guys really do deserve to lose.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Use our reads list, but move Zdenek and Stubbs down to null/scum and Baby Spice down to null.

[BulbaFenix]

Nobody can be

that

obtuse.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Which post was that?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

You put your fingers in your ears and went "La la la. I'm not listnening. La la la." Everything you pointed to as evidence either didn't exist or was sufficiently explained. And if you're town, you're a horrible scumhunter. Right up there with Serene.

[BulbaFenix]

I have my moments.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

With fire!



-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

But tomorrow, since town derped it up today.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Aims at Shadi...

[BulbaFenix]

Oh right... Official and stuff.

Vengekill: Shadi1337

Bye scum.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

You put your fingers in your ears and went "La la la. I'm not listnening. La la la."

Everything you pointed to as evidence either didn't exist or was sufficiently explained

. And if you're town, you're a horrible scumhunter. Right up there with Serene.

I can't believe you're actually criticizing someone for ignoring sufficient explanations

Now I know you're just fucking with me

The sufficient explanation part is making me laugh.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Spoiler: Not Dead Yet

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Serene you were all over the thread after Nero was hammered. Why so quiet?

He KNOW'S he's in trouble once we flip.

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

I'm not so sure about this hydra anymore, not because Nacho hasn't townread me, but because I would have expected a precise case from him that I could dissect. However, they have not provided such a case.

(guess who wasn't reading you as scum anymore)
<----- this guy
90% of the votes for BulbaFenix have been from Mastin. Mastin has provided his case, I haven't provided a case because I was still sorting you out.

Mastin didn't provide a case. I should know. I kept asking.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Baby Spice can't be scum if Ank is town. He claimed 2-shot cop with an innocent result on her.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Serene you were all over the thread after Nero was hammered. Why so quiet?

He KNOW'S he's in trouble once we flip.

-Fenix

First off, if you're town, your wagon wasn't just pushed by me. Zdenek had his own case for example.

Second off, I'm still waiting for metal to address his predecessor's claim

Sometimes I get my reads wrong, we all do. If I was wrong about you, fuck it ill apologize in the Dead QT

I now feel your post hammer stuff has been townish. DGB disagrees. But it's too little too late. You disappeared at key times, you did scummy things, and no I'm not the only person to think so.

Blame me if you flip town if you must. It's really on you though.

Shadi still town, goat still scum.

This is crap. First, I've been around quite a bit (If you meant the Fenix head, you need to specify. But he was V/LA the previous week.), so that "You disappeared at key times" reason is false. Second, we've also done nothing scummy, and I even asked for people's cases. The reasons for the wagon were based on alignment neutral tells (Mac replacing out, hydra dissonance), illusionary tells (the so-called "slip"), and the fact that everybody dislikes the way I scumhunt (i.e. "he's being mean to scum"). The best reason for someone being on the wagon was probably Crabd's, which was related to the fakehammer, but that was only because he focused on the policy lynch comment and ignored all the other parts where I pushed Koopa to get his thoughts out and give information to the town. So this "it's all on you" comment is crap. I'm not to blame for this mislynch, it's all on you. And I want to state this: This is the second time I (Bulbazak) have ever been mislynched, and both times it was pushed by DGB (Zdenek doesn't have the clout to push these wagons. Serene did.). Goat called it right on you being completely wrong this game, and I even stated before that DGB's scumdar is broken. This is on you, and if you and the town don't get it together, you will be responsible for every mislynch this town suffers.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

IF you're town, then that's 1/4 of my reads that was wrong. TIP I correctly called town, same with ProHawk. Nero, EVERYONE fucking knew he was town, and I don't give a damn who says otherwise. They just don't have balls enough to admitting lynching a town read. I've been scum reading your slot since like forever, and when DGB started seeing you as town I TALKED HER DOWN FROM IT. She may have been the face of your wagon in your eyes, but I was the one that showed her your scumminess. And you can claim you did nothing scummy all you want, but how the fuck did you get lynched? They can't all be scum! You fail to see your behavior for what it was, at least I know what I am. You should fucking know by now bulba that I don't play around when I smell scum, and if I'm wrong about you, fine, so fucking be it. But you damn well ain't blameless.

Mafia is going to keep you around because your play is easy to manipulate and predictable. Also, where the HELL is Preg? I want that dead QT already...

is bulba town

i'm almost scared to read the thread

We are LYNCHED my good man... Just waitin on Preg to come in and drop the beat

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

IF you're town, then that's 1/4 of my reads that was wrong. TIP I correctly called town, same with ProHawk. Nero, EVERYONE fucking knew he was town, and I don't give a damn who says otherwise. They just don't have balls enough to admitting lynching a town read. I've been scum reading your slot since like forever, and when DGB started seeing you as town I TALKED HER DOWN FROM IT. She may have been the face of your wagon in your eyes, but I was the one that showed her your scumminess. And you can claim you did nothing scummy all you want, but how the fuck did you get lynched? They can't all be scum! You fail to see your behavior for what it was, at least I know what I am. You should fucking know by now bulba that I don't play around when I smell scum, and if I'm wrong about you, fine, so fucking be it. But you damn well ain't blameless.

Your reasons for saying we were scum was: 1.) Mac's replacing out 2.) I dared to call you out d1 3.) Hydra dissonance regarding our read on you 4.) The "slip"

That's 2 non-alignment tells, an illusionary tell, and OMGUS. If you had a better case, I never heard it. And I had to pull teeth just to try to get you to do some analysis on d1, and you still never did that, because you claimed mason. You've done no analysis whatsoever. ZERO. Don't you dare try to say that it is due to MY scumminess that this lynch went through! DON'T YOU DARE! You've been zeroed in on this slot hardcore because we dared to ask you to be pro-town, provide analysis and actual reasoning for your reads. So don't you dare pull that crap on me!

and the fact that everybody dislikes the way I scumhunt (i.e. "he's being mean to scum").

Bulba

This is a prime example of why I thought you were scum

You've been told multiple times that no one ever accused you of this

And you JUST KEEP SAYING IT like that never happened

I was going to list in spoilers everytime somebody said we were scum for how we were pursuing people, but after going halfway through Rift's ISO, I realized that if I did so, I probably would not be able to get this post out in time. Simply reading the thread would tell you that you're wrong. Especially when you said that popularity factored into being lynched. Stop lying. Stop twisting. You've been caught, and if you continue to do so, I welcome someone tomorrow to post everytime there was an objection to my methods, just so that you can be exposed for the lying scumball you are.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Especially when you said that popularity factored into being lynched.

there you go ignoring my entire rebuttal again

as I have literally said four times

I NEVER FUCKING SAID THAT

The more Bulba and DOMO go at it, the more I think Bulbafenix is town and DOMO scum.

Go buddy someone else.

Are you trying to make everyone want to lynch you? It's working.

I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be a popularity contest? I thought we were supposed to be finding scum, lynching scum, and contributing to a town win. If I am able to catch some scum and help town win, who cares how much I'm liked? Why should it matter? The only ones who would be worried about such things are scum, because they want to survive until endgame. Your whole outlook on this game comes from a scum mindset rather than a town mindset.

Yes, wanting to lynch someone is the same as disliking them.

Brilliant deduction, Sherlock.

Want to run that by me again?

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

I never claim until L-1, regardless of my role. If the wagon would have died down before that point, scum would have been really paranoid about my role. I won't lie about my role when town, but that doesn't mean that I won't use that unknown to my advantage.

-Bulba

On a side note, I made scum think I was a JK in my first Newbie game without claiming. I had hoped to draw the NK, and it ended up winning us the game. So again, I'll use the uncertainty to my advantage.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Nothing's in my best interest when you're playing.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Wheeeeeeeeee!!!!!

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

If BRO gets lynched, there's something seriously wrong with this town. The sad part is that there are people who are pushing for his lynch.
BRO, Orcinus, Rift, Crabd. There's your core town that can break this game wide open if they are smart about it.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Judging by the DGB head of Serene, they're probably town, but one you want to ignore. I don't trust DOMO either.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

"Are you trying to get lynched" does not equal "lynching is a popularity contest". And if you can't tell the last quote is sarcastic from "Brilliant deduction, Sherlock" then you may be beyond help.

You were inferring that lynches were based on how well people liked you with "Are you trying to get lynched?" which you backed up with "Yes, wanting to lynch someone is the same as disliking them.". You may say that it is sarcastic, but it is what you implied and argued for. Trying to say otherwise is ludicrous.

Why not DOMO
I just realized I've never seen rev's scum game but he seems real town to me

I think the way they've reacted today was scummy. Everybody seems to disagree with me because of meta, but I still think there's something off there. I will say that he is willing to back up what he says, unlike Cephrir, and Cephrir buddying with him makes me think they're not on the same team (DOMO's reaction was genuine.). If you find out that it is not multiball (i.e. 2 scum teams), than he's probably in the clear, but I don't trust him as much as I used to.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Interesting that you cut my argument in half to discredit the whole thing.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Bulba

Give me some DOMO posts you found funny

Looks like we're multiball, if either were vigged then we have a bad vig imo.

I see zdenek and bulba have both voted and neither look like they have considered how the night kills might effect their reads. There's some basic town motivation lacking right there. Neither explain their stevie vote, or comment on the mislynch which they were both part of. Dodgy as fuck.

Both those who were NK'ed were on the mislynch. So were the masons. The remaining pool deserve the most scrutiny as we begin today.

That's- Rift Adrift, Zdenek, KingCrabd, Shadi1337, Baby Spice, Cephrir, BROseidon, BulbaFenix, StevieT92

My scum pool right now is zdenek, bulba, BRO and cephrir. I doubt very much all four are scum on the same team, it would be crazy for all to join the mislynch and then kill a townie who was on the wagon, but they could be split into different teams.

I intend to catch up fully in the next 24 hours.

I found the whole "Looks like we're in multiball" reaction to the NK to be very suspect. It looked like scum trying to appear town by reacting to the NK (i.e. fake), and there was no reason to suspect multiball, since we didn't know that the vig hadn't killed during the night, and TIP looked like a vig kill. It looked as if he was stating that it was multiball to appear town for considering it. His suspicion on Zdenek and ourselves for not voicing our thoughts on the NK, which is a bunch of WIFOM, is suspect as well, since there was no need to openly say anything or any evidence to reconsider the read on Stevie.

bulba's "slip" alone is not enough to warrant lynch, it's easy for him to say he also misread that statement. But today he's come in with an immediate reasonless vote for stevie, then said I must be speedlynched if it's it's multiball for being the first to speculate on it, despite the fact it's the assumption most people seem to be working on, serene included. Then he's saying serene is scum, without explaining to us how fakeclaiming mason on day one with a buddy is viable. And he wasn't looking good yesterday.

So this bulba wagon does not have me concerned. He's picking up fast votes because he's scum.

What I disliked here is that they said they understood what happened, but then they went ahead with the "slip" reasoning anyway. At least they voted, unlike Cephrir, who did the same thing, but without the vote.

Translation: "I know what's really going on, but I need to make something up quick to justify this wagon that I hopped onto."

This misrep alone should be enough defence.

I didn't just hop onto this wagon. I started it. I didn't like your stevie vote, same with zdenek, I see two people enter the 2nd day with no regard for what happened overnight. So I attack you both. You respond with an attack on me, saying I need to be quicklynched if it turns out to be multiball. I see this as an attempt by someone who knows it's multiball to get a mislynch when confirmed. And here you're saying I'm trying to find reasons to justify hopping on a wagon that I started with what I see as good reason.

This...

You, however, entered into the thread today with a determination that you KNEW it was multiball. You seemed to want to get in on the spec action early and drum up some town cred for scumhunting, which is more in line with scum motivation, rather than town motivation.

Let me ask you a question... if it's multiball, wouldn't it be better for the scum if town didn't consider it? If I'm scum and I know it's multiball, I want to be able to hide behind my legit scumhunting for longer without town knwoing that scum are legit scumhunting. So if anything, it's a town tell. There's little scum motivation for wanting town to be aware that scum are actually scumhunting, is there? Town cred is lost, not gained.
I do not know if it's multiball, I suspect it is. There's reasons for that which I'll get moaned at if say it... let's just say multiball is fresh in my memory. The night kills did not make sense to me from a vig point of view. Maybe I'm wrong. But they seem like shit vig targets to me. Two scum kills made more sense. Thus, I speculated. I speculate a lot. Well done for spotting a rev tell.

I'm pretty sure I'm defending against scum here.

The WIFOM at the end is horrible. I broke it apart in a later post to show how horrible it was. Again, if you know what your meta is, then it is no longer reliable.

Actually that line of thought is retarded. Why the fuck would koopa want the SK to know he's scum?

ok

unvote

, I'm just being paranoid.

This feels like fake paranoia. If I'm paranoid, it shows in my actions. Saying "I'm paranoid." is not the same as actual paranoia.

Wow, stuff happened.

I smell a rat. If they have daytime talk, they could've hatched a plan to save koopa. If one flips scum, the other is an easy lynch. He couldn't wait to claim, he kept hinting he was PR before.

unvote

Time will tell.

Ank's flipflopping here confuses me. But I don't intend to default onto him.

vote bulba

The suspicion of Koopa's vig claim is bad, not only because of the genuine emotion elicited from the fakehammer, but also because he earlier criticized those who doubted the mason claim. Yet, he's doing the same thing here.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

We're trying to get as much done as possible before the day ends. Tell us who you tracked and who you're planning on tracking.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Firstly: lean town
Secondly: I do not want to spend all my time trying to defuse wagons you have driven on town players
Thirdly: forcing town players to needlessly claim

IS A SCUM TACTIC

A FUCKINN

SCUM

TACTIC

Keep an eye on him, Orc. I agree with you

-Fenix

[BulbaFenix]

bulba's "slip" alone is not enough to warrant lynch, it's easy for him to say he also misread that statement. But today he's come in with an immediate reasonless vote for stevie, then said I must be speedlynched if it's it's multiball for being the first to speculate on it, despite the fact it's the assumption most people seem to be working on, serene included. Then he's saying serene is scum, without explaining to us how fakeclaiming mason on day one with a buddy is viable. And he wasn't looking good yesterday.

So this bulba wagon does not have me concerned. He's picking up fast votes because he's scum.

What I disliked here is that they said they understood what happened, but then they went ahead with the "slip" reasoning anyway. At least they voted, unlike Cephrir, who did the same thing, but without the vote.

Yeah, sorry, I looked at this post for a while and I still don't see whatever you're finding suspect. Might just be me being dumb but you'll have to spell this one out more clearly

Sorry about that. I was using our ISO and F3 to try to find points as quickly as possible. Here is the actual post I was referring to:

Interesting. When I first read that I thought it made sense, like "personally I do not believe the claim". But yeah on 2nd read that's bad.

vote bulbafenix

either or really

Again note how he stated his belief in the actual series of events, but he quickly backs the wagon and believes the "slip". It just didn't feel natural to me. Cephrir was scummy for similar reasons, but he refused to vote and later backpedaled, which is worse.

-Bulba

[BulbaFenix]

Goat is town. Trust me on this.

Also...

@MS: We likely don't have much time. Stop lurking and avoiding the thread. We need to know who you tracked.

[BulbaFenix]

Thoughts?

[BulbaFenix]

That was to Cabd, btw, not MS.

-Bulba