NY 179: Cute and Fluffy Mafia (Town Win)

[Kthxbye]

p.edit quick note: I've read exactly this page up to this point, so if some of the questions are answered elsewhere, might want to re-post them as I'm not entirely sure I'll even go back and read everything. On one hand, it's a large and I'm here cuz d3x is here and we're both a little fruity which makes things fun. On the other, it's only 22 pages in which is short enough. Meh, we'll see. I don't take much stock in anything on D1's as they suck anyway. Intro into game commence.

If pen is Hammered before Kthx posts anything of significance, I'll be very put off.

Hmm...this is the first post of this game I read and since it's pretty much my goal to get a read on d3x in any game I play with him, I get town vibes from this as I'm not sure he posts this as scum, but....

Quick questions:
You're on the wagon yet 'worried' that 2 more votes will come before I post something of significance. Why not just unvote with a proxy on killa to ensure this doesn't happen?
Also, since you're on the wagon (and first on the wagon at that), you must feel that killa has the best chance at flipping anti-town today. Are you really overly concerned about the hammer before content from me? Do you feel the same way as below?

If pen is Hammered before Kthx posts anything of significance, I'll be very put off.

It'll make that player slot guaranteed scum.

No, not guaranteed, and this post rubs me the wrong way from the start.

If killa is scum (which you'd be leaning that way if you're town since you're "wagoning" and pushing killa closer to lynch), how would that make the hammerer "guaranteed scum"? Do you really think killa has a good chance at flipping scum or not? Why are you on the wagon? What are your thoughts on the TDA wagon that you could have also voted for if you're just "wagoning"?

I didn't like what I saw from Killapenwin early on- so

vote killapenwin

What specifically didn't you like?

@Killa:

What are your thoughts on each of those on your wagon. You're voting Garmr. What makes him the scummiest on your wagon? Who else are you scum reading? Who are you town reading? <---what's your reads list?

Next move: Reading up on d3x, killa, and TDA

[Kthxbye]

Oh right, I didn't realise there was actually a player called 'I am innocent'. I have just read the player list and thought you were contradicting yourself before, you can disregard what I said earlier.

vote: d3x

Only people wanting to associate with gangsters put 'z' at the end of words, are you scum?

I am not actually a fan of RVS, I feel it just gives scum the opportunity to vote without reasoning, which I do not think is good for town.

If the 2nd post is true, why did you post the 1st (actively participate in RVS)?

[Kthxbye]

I had planned on Bus'ing him much later, but he just wouldn't leave well enough alone. He forced my hand.

That just doesn't track, man. I highly doubt the Neighborhood had pregame, but the Scum didn't. I also can't even remember a game where Scum didn't have pregame.

I'm racking my brain to try and remember any time d3x has posted like this as scum as it's ballsy scum play and from what I know about d3x scum, he's the opposite of ballsy as scum. Barring playing against his meta, I'm leaning town d3x from these. If I'd started in this game with him, it'd be more likely he play against his meta, but since I'm coming in 22 pages in, iv'e got good feelings about him. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm going the ISO route, but there is a neighborhood and you're in it. It was outed by Garmr. Are those correct statements?

Now, do you think that everyone in the 'hood' is town at this point?

[Kthxbye]

we lynchin or wat

Can you wait till some questions are answered? Also, there's over a week left, what is the gain for town to lynch now vs waiting?

That asked, ABR's most recent closed town game has similar D1 posting, and iirc, ABR was like this last time I played with him in House. Willing to put him leaning town at this time.

[Kthxbye]

re TDA: quick scan, not seeing why he's got 4 votes.

And that's about all the catch-up I really care to do on D1.

[Kthxbye]

More of an in depth skim than full read. I was confused for a minute why you were calling "pen" scum while voting killa, but then realized they were one in the same later.

I'll read up real quick in detail.

-I see in p250, you saw what I saw from a quick killa ISO.
-p344 is where I got the hood with at least you, dude, and garmr in it. Later (p490) I see it's Nero, dude, and you with Garmr faking a dayvig to out it. You think Dude is town for it but now I'm interested in your thoughts on Nero. This matters since if we can read it as a town block, that's to our advantage. From your ISO revolving around this, I'm getting strong town vibes from you unless BOTH of you and Dude were scum, which I agree with your reasoning why he's not and the fact that you pointed it out makes me get warm fuzzies from you as well. Make sense?

There, that's a full ISO read.

I have 2 of the hood as town for the way it came out and what was posted surrounding it. Now, how about your Nero read (along with the above quesitons)?

I'm finding kth to be town so far. I like what I've seen so much.

What if I told you that this is completely opposite of my town meta in Large games?

[Kthxbye]

Not much of an ISO to go off of and Dude (a town read) wanted you dead when he thought he was dayvig'ed. Since you're apparently more actively reading this thread than I thought you would be based off your ISO, what are your current thoughts about your neighborhood?

[Kthxbye]

Did I get them all?

Yar

Can you wait till some questions are answered?

ABR is scum in this game. He is rushing way too much. It's artificial.

Have you viewed his meta?

[Kthxbye]

re ABR's meta: Can you find me a scum game of his where he does this D1?

[Kthxbye]

tda is still the best lynch

Why?

Also these:

Drake Crusader, evilpacman18, firebound12

How much are you following the game? Cuz it looks like you're just copy and pasting without any though behind what you're trying to say. Did you look at any of the "wasted votes" to see why they are voting and/or not voting yet or are you just pushing a lynch and trying to point the finger at those not voting the lynch you're pushing? (PS: I already know the answer, but you should respond anyway).

@MOD: VC needs corrected with me as not voting instead of Dark Crusader.
Also, killa is going to hit 48 hours shortly, can we get on that PROD soon after? Thanks!

[Kthxbye]

Hey killa, could you answer this instead of saying you're unwilling to play the game?

Oh right, I didn't realise there was actually a player called 'I am innocent'. I have just read the player list and thought you were contradicting yourself before, you can disregard what I said earlier.

vote: d3x

Only people wanting to associate with gangsters put 'z' at the end of words, are you scum?

I am not actually a fan of RVS, I feel it just gives scum the opportunity to vote without reasoning, which I do not think is good for town.

If the 2nd post is true, why did you post the 1st (actively participate in RVS)?

Also, if what you're saying is true, then self voting is actually playing against your wincon.

Basically, I don't see how an actual town tracker comes back with a self vote and an unwillingness to actually play. VT, sure, I'd get it, but you threw in a claim along with a shit ton of AtE.

Also, let's talk about unwillingness to explain reads. You just threw 4 people into a scum column without any reasoning.

All that said, I don't wanna go and throw away a possible tracker so I'm torn. You're re-entry is scummy as fuck.

[Kthxbye]

killa, you completely ignored me a second time.

[Kthxbye]

I'm gonna hammer if ignored again.

[Kthxbye]

@kthbye 599

@killa: 542

[Kthxbye]

dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1): Kid A
firebound12 (1): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

, Ika
TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget, YuniChikako

Not Voting -

Kthxbye

,

evilpacman18

, StrangerCoug

Alright, the above is where we sit (obviously, if you're town, insert your own name in green for your own VCA purposes). Looking at the votes on killa, the ones that are on with legit(ish) reasons come from d3x, Garmr (sorta OMGUS, but I see town motivation), dragonspawn, and killa.

-NakedJogger remains on killa while at the same time pushing that the wagon leader (d3x) is scum. This does not make sense to me.
-ABR just wanted to lynch yesterday. I've been like that as town in larges before and it matches his meta imo.
-Peacebringer's only explanation was he didn't like what he saw...
-DGB claimed wagoning. The kicker here is that she then posts 539 which pings me as outside knowledge of killa's flip. THEN in 558, she calls ABR scum for wanting to rush killa's lynch yet doesn't unvote the lynch ABR is pushing.
-randommidget has a high amount of votes and literally no content. Also complains about the game not going anywhere (to look town?) while doing absolutely nothing to try and make the game go anywhere (a scum advantage).
-ika asks to be filled in and makes a snarky comment before rushing to hammer.

Now, out of all those with suspicious reasons to be/stay on the killa wagon or with no reason at all, I see scum motivation in all of them. The ones that ping me the most though are:
NakedJogger, DGB, ika and randommidget

I doubt all 4 are scum (too convenient?) but I do think there is AT LEAST 1 if not more.

VOTE: NakedJogger

For the above and the push on d3x who I am strongly town reading as his push on killa (although wrong in the end) is straight up his town meta.

I would be okay to switch to DGB though. Both of their play yesterday in conjunction with them being on the killa wagon is just scummy as hell. Both call other players who are on the wagon scum (attempting to set up a D2 lynch imo) while not having a problem remaining on the wagon with the person they are calling scum with a seemingly high confidence rate than the person they remain voting for.

The only reason I go with NJ right now is because I don't like randommidget on it and to an extent, TDA on it (killa's only real counter wagon yesterday).

As this is a large, I'm pretty much ignoring those not voting or off the wagon yesterday as there are so many damn'ed people.

[Kthxbye]

*The only reason I go with NJ right now is because I don't like randommidget or to an extent, TDA (killa's only real counter wagon yesterday) on DGB's wagon.

[Kthxbye]

ABR u scum?

[Kthxbye]

Also agree with DS about IKA. He's so policy lynch material.

I am always up to lynch this type a player that lives to indiscriminately hammer any player at L-1. It is poison to the game. He could be town, but he might as well be scum as far as the town's chances go.

Can you produce meta to support this claim? To eliminate confusion before it starts, I'm talking about "always up to lynch this type of player".

[Kthxbye]

they can be pretty effective at helping scum pick an optimal night kill if they are analyzed right

What is the purpose and/or benefit to town from this post?

[Kthxbye]

@d3x: Since I'm fairly confident you're town this game, I'm going to try something new and not second guess myself. We prolly won't make it far in the game anyway. So, let's figure this shit out and hit some scum today shall we? I'm interested in your thoughts on my list:

-NakedJogger remains on killa while at the same time pushing that the wagon leader (d3x) is scum. This does not make sense to me.
-ABR just wanted to lynch yesterday. I've been like that as town in larges before and it matches his meta imo.
-Peacebringer's only explanation was he didn't like what he saw...
-DGB claimed wagoning. The kicker here is that she then posts 539 which pings me as outside knowledge of killa's flip. THEN in 558, she calls ABR scum for wanting to rush killa's lynch yet doesn't unvote the lynch ABR is pushing.
-randommidget has a high amount of votes and literally no content. Also complains about the game not going anywhere (to look town?) while doing absolutely nothing to try and make the game go anywhere (a scum advantage).
-ika asks to be filled in and makes a snarky comment before rushing to hammer.

Out of this list, who's your scum picks (if any), or do you think I'm off my rocker?

[Kthxbye]

Oh, and fruity pebbles are my favorite breakfast cereal.

[Kthxbye]

With this player list, I feel like this game should be moving along at...well...any sort of pace would be interesting. I have the next 3 days off and am not going to treat this large like I did my last.

[Kthxbye]

Can you produce meta to support this claim? To eliminate confusion before it starts, I'm talking about "always up to lynch this type of player".

You would have to stroll down Memory Lane until you found an abomination that "played" under the alias of

zwet

chensomethingorother. Lurked, did absolutely nothing but swing hammers.

I'll wait. FTR though, I asked YOU to do it...

[Kthxbye]

@ika: Do you have the history with DGB that she describes?

@DGB: I've been playing awhile, so as long as ika can confirm you 2 have history, then it's something I can buy. I know ALL about history on this site (coughAAcough)

@NJ: So here's the thing. In order to answer that question, we'd have to delve into what it is that scum play like which I've found is pretty different for everyone when it comes to their opinions. Let's just say, in MY point of view, I search for players who get on mis-lynches for no, vague, or regurgitated reasoning.

As for you, well, I'm not understanding your logic for being on the wagon yesterday when your number 1 scumspect was freaking leading it. You threw some percentages at me but in order for us to go "yeah, let's lynch d3x", you're telling us that there is no way that both d3x and killa are town. Unless there is some other way you can know this, you simply just don't know this. If you're scum, you'd know the opposite is true and I don't think you'd be pushing for the 'either or' thing this hard this early. The only other option is you bussing your d3x-partner as you're both scum. I don't think the latter is possible since d3x's town meta is exactly how he's playing now. When I have more time, I'll pull some up (or if d3x wants to be a dear and provide his own meta...).

Let's just say, his meta isn't that he mislynches town D1, it's that he finds something scummy from someone and tunnels the shit out of it till the person is dead. He simply isn't this aggressive as scum and seeing as I replaced into this game, he has/had very little reason to try and switch his meta just for me.

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out if you're just playing "VI"-like (as d3x says) or if you're scum. I don't like your 'there's 100% chance that one of d3x/killa is scum', but I'm not sure that it makes YOU scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: randommidget

I still don't like those on DGB's wagon and ^this shit needs some pressure and has some spainin to do.
Can I get a nice 1/2 or 3/4 wagon on this player please? I'm not saying we rush lynch him, I'm just saying we lynch him right away.

[Kthxbye]

I'm sad that you'd choose the other of my highest ScumReads, Kthx

I don't think you are...especially since you see exactly what I'm seeing right now with RM.

[Kthxbye]

@ika: Do you have the history with DGB that she describes?

Not with him!!!! With zwetchenwasser that did the same thing that I just noticed ika is doing.

OIC. hmmm. I'll take a look at your history at some point. For now though, you're on the back burner. Vote RM.

[Kthxbye]

People are voting me without posting reasons

Who is doing this?

[Kthxbye]

So... you'd consider ika a compromise Lynch to AA?

No, I want to lynch dgb

Alternate account is just pinging me.
I would consider ika a compromise lynch if we can't decide.
People are voting me without posting reasons

@RM: Okay, confirm if I've got his right. You want to lynch DGB because

I am scumreading DGB because they were spewing out reads without showing any scumreading and scumreading like a third of the player list.

You think Alternate Account is scum because

Alternate account is just pinging me.

And you'd be okay with an ika lynch for compromise if you can't get DGB or Alternate Account lynched?

[Kthxbye]

@Flubber: What is your read of RM?

[Kthxbye]

Do you get it now or do you not want to get it?

There were no downsides. If pen would've flipped scum.. fucking great, whether d3x was bussing or I was wrong about him all along. It's a win.
But pen flipped town and everyone who is still townreading d3x needs to get his head examined. Veteran players don't usually deathtunnel townies, especially claimed PR ones, unless they suck balls at this game, in which case they're a menace even as town. That's the fucking elephant in the room right now.

@NJ: I get it what you're saying. I even explained it as much. You think, 100% (70+30) that one of d3x or killa was/is scum both yesterday and today. What I was trying to get through to you is there is no way for you to know that. Pardon me if I don't take your word for it that d3x must be scum and I instead take my loooooooong history with him into account to get a read on him. I'm telling you now that there is very VERY little chance that d3x is scum. I've already explained why, now go back and read it.

@DGB: If RM flips scum, you're off the hook.

Ika is 100% town if RM flips scum. If RM is scum and was buddies with ika, he'd know that Alternate Account was replaced BY ika. As it stands, he's just trying to lynch people with larger wagons (DGB) or others with votes/wagons (ika). Scum don't often fully read games (I know I don't) and all they care about is lynching not scum. This is what I see RM doing. Wagon up bitches.

By the by, if you wanna see what a scum answer to a town question looks like, it looks like this:

I feel like this is a trick question. I'll take the money.

[Kthxbye]

I know Kthx, meta. Can you guess the sole function of meta? Fuck it I'll tell you. It's to initiate discussion. That's it. Never was more to it. Never.

This is just a silly thing to say.
It's like saying that on days my wife doesn't work, she makes dinner and on days she does work, she picks up fast food. If meta didn't matter, I'd wonder every day whether I'm going to eat healthy food or fast food and should never take years worth of history into account to try and figure it out.

Another example would be if my wife always nibbles my ear while watching tv before we get it on that night and when she doesnt do that, I'm not getting any. If I don't take here meta into account, I'd always be wondering why she's all up in my ear.

Meta matters because unless someone dilibertly tries (and often slips up and fails) to consciously play against thier meta, they play similar ways when in similar roles.

[Kthxbye]

And with that, I'll join that wagon.

vote PeaceBringer

So you haven't posted in a week and your "catchup" is letting mod know that he missed a vote and bandwagoning said vote. Yea, I'm pretty comfortable with my scumread on your slot.

I approve ^this message.

[Kthxbye]

are you never home or something? why do you need to post from work and on cell? only time I do that is when I want to. Its a forum game, you're not in immediate danger, so why do you feel the need to post from mediums you don't enjoy posting from?

[Kthxbye]

also IAI, have you read the WHY of the RM wagon?

[Kthxbye]

@Flubber: What is your read of RM?

Null. Will compromise a lynch on him if need be.

Dgb wagon isn't on null though. It's on scum. Just sayin'

Well, if this is the case, I'm not sure I understand why you're ok with compromising on the guy voting DGB with the reasoning of

I am scumreading DGB because they were spewing out reads without showing any scumreading and scumreading like a third of the player list.

Mayhaps you could explain that?

[Kthxbye]

Do you really think I would be this scummy as scum? I would be a lot more focused.

Do I think you are scum because everything (^case in point) you post is scummy.....uh....yeah....that's kinda how you find scum.

Let me pose a question back to you. Do you really think we should believe you would be this scummy as town?

I think you are onto something here, especially qith nero's defence since.
Nero is joining my scumreads and pssibly peacebringer.

No way. Totes didn't see that coming....

/end sarcasm

[Kthxbye]

Oh you did it Garmr, you went full. GJ. I thought you didn't have it in you but you did.

Also:

How to be a scumbag in mafia 101 with Garmr and Flubber.

two stop trying to make it personal I can already tell you have thin skin and you'll easily get insulted.

Tells you to stop making it personal

Makes a personal remark about you

@nj wagon: Why is nj scum over a douche?

Rules say don't call people names

Calls you names

What does this have to do with finding scum? Are you saying they are scumbags as in they are scum or are you saying they are just tools for their comments?

[Kthxbye]

Nothing. What does you asking what something that doesn't have anything to do with scumhunting has to do with scumhunting have to do with scumhunting?

Well, you see, it's me asking a question to see if you had a town reason to go down this road or if you were just clogging the thread with nonsense (a scum-tell). You responded with the scum-tell.

It's called hunting for scum.

What are your thoughts on RM?

[Kthxbye]

I'm losing interest in this game

is it because you don't like playing as mafia?

Hey Kid, I like your post but it could be better. It could include a vote on RM.

[Kthxbye]

I am textbook town, my every move is pro town in a deep and disciplined fashion so it makes sense for him to call me VI to discredit my obvtown drive to get him lynched.

Delusional - a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

I will tell you right now and in a hurry, you are definetely not "textbook town". You're tunneling d3x in the same way you are calling him scum for doing on D1. I have told you why he's town, and despite my very long history with him (going on 20 years d3x?), you tell me meta is null and should be ignored so that you can follow your rabbit hole. Look around. Nobody is listening to you because the so-called scum tells you say d3x is exhibiting, just aren't there.

The question is, are you scum though?

You are pushing so hard against a textbook scum players wagon, that's it's scummy on your part. If RM flips scum, you're heads on the chopping block if I have anything to say about it.

[Kthxbye]

so many stupid fucking walls......

tell me when they are gone i cant stand to read them cus it make my eyes gloss

You'd better do better than this or replace the fuck out. You replaced into this game. This game is on the mafia scum site. Every game I've played in has fucking walls. You have been on this site long enough to know this. Do better or replace out or you're basically scum-claiming in my eyes.

[Kthxbye]

also wow this is a not the kthnx I'm used to (through i have limited experience) and I like it.

I only get all crazy with AtE and shit when I'm suspected as scum while town....which happens a LOT. When I don't have to defend myself, I can see things more clearly even if I get paranoid at times...

im on cross replace so theres no replacing out for me.

you can just vote me out instead. i will work at my own damn pace and that means when everyone is done walling each other i can get into the game

Where are you at this time with reads then? Are you reading nothing, or just not reading walls?

[Kthxbye]

well seeing how i am just recently getting over my cold and just skimped the pages due to how many people think wall posting is a great idea...

like none

And how long do you plan on attempting this coasting along/no content but a hammer bullshit exactly?

[Kthxbye]

Kthx what's your read on ika right now?

Annoyed? Guess that's not really a read.

Could be scum going for the 'lazy-town rebel' attitude. The thing is, could be town just being the lazy-town rebel. So...null leaning scum. Don't think I'd cry if I had to switch over for compromise.

[Kthxbye]

Prod received and I'll catch-up when I get a chance. It's been a pretty shitty week.

[Kthxbye]

Spoiler: Stuff that isn't the RM case

@KidA: Why aren't you pushing (as in trying to case and persuade others to lynch) DGB? I see a reason you are voting her here and there, but no real push.

@NJ:

I don't like your 'there's 100% chance that one of d3x/killa is scum', but I'm not sure that it makes YOU scum.

I never said that

@NJ: I get it what you're saying. I even explained it as much. You think, 100% (70+30) that one of d3x or killa was/is scum both yesterday and today.

Nope

You're tunneling d3x in the same way you are calling him scum for doing on D1.

He was tunneling a obvVI. I'm tunneling a veteran player who was deathtunneling an obvVI who claimed and happened to be a PR, while calling me VI. There's nothing wrong with the tunneling I'm doing.

I have told you why he's town, and despite my very long history with him (going on 20 years d3x?), you tell me meta is null and should be ignored so that you can follow your rabbit hole.

You told me tunneling players to death was according to his town meta, nothing else. What else makes you think this is his town meta, because I have heard a statement that is in direct opposition to yours here:

I'd consider joining you on the d3x wagon, this is not the same d3x I played with last game.

Of course yours has more weight since you claim to know his forum mafia meta for 20 years even though forum mafia was invented not longer than 15 years ago but anyway..
You also said he wouldn't change his meta since he didn't know you were going to replace in. That's a pretty weak argument because all mafia games have loads of replacements and you might not have been the only one to judge his play by that "tell".

If RM flips scum, you're heads on the chopping block if I have anything to say about it.

Why? Do you actually believe Garmr's nonsense about me blocking the push on RM? The way he's accusing me of things that he does I'd say he did. Or you did. Anyone else but me because I was tunneling d3x and the continuation of that shouldn't have come as a surprise to no one. And yet your acting this way. Are you scum?

- Um...yes you did? "I took the random chance of 30% or so for pen to flip scum, hoping that if he flips town we'd go for d3x." This literally implies that you thought 1 of the 2 were/are scum and the ratio you gave was 30 for pen and thus 70 for d3x.
- yup^
- So pen was obv VI or was he 30% scum? Also, tunneling is tunneling. You call him scum for tunneling yet you tunnel him. It's the same. The only difference is he has a history of it as town and I don't know you from anything.
- Right....I give you specific examples of why his play is his town play and you wanna take a general comment from IaI as more concrete? This is the problem with tunneling.
- d3x and I know each other irl (thus 20+ years)....I know his brain and how he thinks. We've had many a discussion about how to play town and scum in this game. I replaced into this game AFTER it started thus he had no reason to try and hide his meta or switch up his scum game. My town read on him is higher than anyone else in this game. I don't understand what you aren't understanding.
- You're ignoring blaring scum RM to chase a non-lynch. You have given zero reason why RM ISN'T scum, so yeah, you are indeed blocking an RM lynch. Now how would scum protect a buddy without being overly obvious about it? Hard push someone else to the ground while ignoring the obvious case as to why RM is scum.

@TDA:

I'm not interested in lynching Random Midget.

...and why the hell not? Do you think RM is town? If so, why?

@IaI:

Food for thought everyone, a player votes 4 times D1, 3 different players.

Someone is then lynched, and their role is revealed.

A kill at night happens, another role is revealed.

Lots more information to use, yet this player goes thru all of D2 up to this point, 26 posts in all D2, still without a vote.

What is your take on that peeps?

Who's this in reference to? I'd like to dig deeper into said person. p.edit: Will look harder into PB. You on the other hand have to explain to me why RM isn't someone you're looking at for scum.

@FN:

Hey peace let's talk about why your vote isn't on dgb

Let's instead talk about why your vote isn't on RM.

midget- Someone give me a reason why this guy isn't Scum.

FFS this.

@NJ...again:

This shit's stalled out so freaking hard and this benefits no one but Scum.

The deadline is now 6 days away and we're actually

further

from consolidating the Lynch.

@Peace- Do you actually want a Wagon to pop up on IAI? Do you think it has better wheels than the other 3? What would you say is the most compelling evidence that might sway 8 others to join you and help keep your Vote from being wasted?

Because without someone pushing, I don't believe it will happen. This game isn't playing like we have 17 players still alive. We're heading into the end of D2 and we're at 40 pages. We've had 5 replacements and 12 prods handed out {not including those who had to be replaced}. There are arguably 6 prod dodges on this page alone. The overwhelming majority of players in this game are satisfied with one liners and seemingly reasonless Vote hopping. We have 3 Wagons that are 'competing' solely by the virtue that the they each exist.

These things concern me greatly and lead me to believe that in the absence of someone actively calling out the bullshit and trying to shame the game along, the game won't move along. A FlashWagon when we're 24hrs from deadline won't give us as much useful information for D3 as

actually

competing Wagons a week out.

Oh, and we both just lost to a chronic Lurker. And that blows. So a lack of content on this scale is making me rather irritable.

^These are town-d3x postings. Period. I shall not change my read on him this game even on the super slim chance he's scum. If he's scum, he's completely fooled someone who can read him better than anyone else on the site.

@TTH: I'm not really feeling it. I read your reasons and I think I like your thought process on it enough to put you in my town pile for now. What are your thoughts on RM though?

@everyone:

Why RM is scum.

-RM was on the pen wagon yesterday with no reason what-so-ever. His vote comes just 10 post after he comments that AA (now ika) should be the lynch for D1. RM flipping scum clears ika for this alone.

-RM complains about game going nowhere yet does absolutely nothing to further it along (unless you count being scum and lurking moving it along)

-

Big post over the weekend whwn I can use a laptop.

This never happened.

-

Eeps prodge will post content

and here's the "content"

So I'm scummy for prodging when I was about to post and for voting dgb?

also, what happened to the AA (ika) scum read?

Alternate account is also probably scum.

Alternate account is just pinging me.
I would consider ika a compromise lynch if we can't decide.
People are voting me without posting reasons

Oh, there it is...

So... you'd consider ika a compromise Lynch to AA?

No, I want to lynch dgb

Oh, nvm....

-

I feel like this is a trick question. I'll take the money.

Like I said before, this is a scum answer to a question they don't want to or don't know how to answer without revealing their true colors and getting caught. Like it was said after this post, the truth shouldn't be hard for town to answer with...

-

Do you really think I would be this scummy as scum? I would be a lot more focused.

^here you have the 'ol "I'm too scummy to be scum" argument which is scum-RM trying to get out of jail free. He's either implying that he's playing super scummy as town on purpose or trying to use something I've seen town use to get their scum reads lynched over someone else's.

-

Prodge will pst later

2 days later....

I still think dgb is scum

Final thoughts: There is absolutely nothing that says RM is town and posting from a town mindset and everything that says RM is scum and avoiding posting to hope the heat dies off.

Either vote RM or explain why all the above isn't obv scum and how it can be seen as town.

[Kthxbye]

The unjustified resistance (Also people ignoring it) for a RM wagon shows that the slot is probably scum.

I think I see what you're saying, but I'd say it's more the lack of scum jumping on what could be low hanging fruit if RM was town is more what the case is. I think there are plenty of town just having their own agenda avoiding the obv scum.

[Kthxbye]

I joinwd killapewnin's wagon becauae he was going to be lynched.
Also plenty ofnother people are lurking, so why am I the one you are tunneling?

-Pray tell why you wanted to be on the wagon that was going to be the lynch for the day?
-Your lurking is just ONE point I have on you. It's also in conjunction with being a leading wagon and not the lurking itself.
-What are your reads from town to scum?

[Kthxbye]

@TTH: If u look back through those linked town games, I think you'll find (as I did) that while he posts shorter post regularly, they at least have content...at least much more so than his play in this game. That said, I'd want to look at his scum game to compare that to this.

[Kthxbye]

Im on phone and doing history checks suck on the phone. I did however see multiple town games of his where he was MUCH more active and open with his reads so yeah...this is different that what he has played as town as much as it is similar. Got tired of hunting for his scum game on phone so it'll have to wait and my push shall cntinue

[Kthxbye]

NJ: Please explain your thought process in which

The case is too weak and everyone is acting like it's huge and it's scummy. That's what I'm saying.

led you to and corresponds with

VOTE: RM

It's been built up to be a decent lynch.

Also, does this mean that RM now has the random 30% chance of flipping scum or did you change your mind due to the "too weak" case?

Do you still feel like anyone currently voting RM is 'up for lynch'?

[Kthxbye]

Not until you apologize for that last sentence

Not gonna happen. I'm not clear on your mindset and thus you should be happy to explain it if you're town.

@Kthx Why do you assume scum wouldn't give legitish reasons to lynch a townie?

I assume nothing. I do know however that scum have to fake every reason given to jump on a towns wagon so they often have less thought out/legitish reasons for their votes. It's how I hunt for scum...see RM.

Do you think bias is a scumtell?

It's certainly not a scum-tell, BUT it can be faked pretty easily. Town often show confirmation bias, hell, I'm prolly doing the same about RM...difference is, I'm prolly right about RM and you're prolly wrong about d3x.

[Kthxbye]

ABR and ika. You BOTH have been around long enough to know how to play this game. Start doing it or I'm sure I won't have much trouble getting you policy lynched or force replaced for playing against your wincon no matter what alignment you are.

"Play to win the game." It's a rule. Abide by it.

You are trolling (especially ABR) and if you're town, you're going to end up hurting us by doing so. If you're scum though, by all means continue and be lynched for it.

[Kthxbye]

No, it's stupid and trolly.....as I already pointed out in 1075

[Kthxbye]

Prod dodge till tonight

[Kthxbye]

Apparently I have a few minutes right now....

No, it's stupid and trolly.....as I already pointed out in 1075

cool story bro. good thing IDGAF

what you going to to pussyfoot a vote on me or just continue to potshot me like you are now

I'm voting scum atm. Keep it up and tomorrow I'll work on getting you PL'ed.

@TTH: I've skimmed through his town games and though he does often post short posts, those were at least coherent with pretty clear intent behind them. Here is different. Yeah, you can say that since he liked his 1 scum game that he'd be more active here as scum, it's just theory. (p.edit: as you admit yourself in p1086...)

Scum on my wagon are pribably in NJ/dragonspawn/dgb.
If I get lynched please look at Nero, AA and dgb.
Iai, peacebringer, telltale, Ika and d3x are fairly confident town.
There is definitely scum pushing either mine or dgbs wagon. Whichever of us gets lynched examine the wagon tomorrow.

-For the final time, AA isn't even playing this game. I can't tell if you are trying to play dumb or you're really actually not paying attention to this game what-so-ever.
-Why aren't you looking into the players you want us to look at yourself? Why are the listed town reads town reads for you?
-

SCUM SLIP ALERT:

Last line of this post insinuates that DGB is positively town. Since the first sentence directly states for us to "look at" DGB if he get's lynched, it doesn't make sense for him to say that scum is pushing her wagon.

[Kthxbye]

He says that I am scum on his wagon.

Then the slips that he knows I'm town.

Did I get this right?

This is how I read it. I'm tried to see how it could be another way or somehow from a town mindset (as I've been known to call scumslip a little too easily), but I honestly don't see how it's not a slip unless he's literally not reading any posts in this game at all (including his own).

Now back to catch-up:

Spoiler: @NJ

I am, if you apologize. You should be eager to know what my mindset was if you are town so you will, if you are town.

Let's go this route, what exactly is it you are wanting me to apologize for?

RM is a lurker/nrp. Do you want me to believe you've applied your scumhunting formula in this game and haven't found a worthier candidate?

No...especially considering recent events of what I found in his p1099 (which I'm honestly surprised nobody commented on in 3 pages...for shame y'all, for shaaaame)

I wasn't talking about confirmation bias. I was talking about you accusing me of being scummy for having a post that doesn't have anything to do with scumhunting while fucking Garmr unloaded a bunch of them, one of which was the direct cause for mine.

Well, in that case, I guess it's not a scum tell since I apparently did it. I'm kinda concentrated on trying to figure you out though and not really paying much attention to some other players. Plus, Garmr has been voting scum for awhile now so...

@DGB:

Then you're probably town.

You quoted the same thing I found as a scumslip. How did you come to the conclusion that he's town for it where I see (and now you are posting that you see) it's clearly not a town-tell?

I will literally vote any lurker in any game at any time. I have it up to HERE with the lurkers.

Yet you unvoted a....semi-lurker...

@NC:

I think lurking is well within his scummeta.

Do you have anything to back this up? Is it only in his scum-meta or is it in his town-meta as well?
@DGB again:

I think lurking is well within his scummeta.

YES

Same question to you as to NC.

@ABR:

Vote Nero Cain. He doesn't know how to play and all he does is shift blame to others. He doesn't even know how to scumhunt. Just lynch Nero Cain right away.

You realize nobody is going to even remotely listen to you since you're doing nothing but trolling right? Why are you playing like this...still? I think it was you that I looked at meta for and saw you did this at the start of games, but don't you usually get invested by this point?

RM, Ika are my preferred lynches but will join the DGB wagon.

So by coincidence, your top scum reads are the main wagons?

This is interesting.

aaaaaaaaaaaand, I pretty much glossed over the rest due to deadline looming and finding a scumslip from the person I've been trying to tell everyone is scum from the start of the day so....yeah, RM is today's lynch unless someone can defend his comment and explain to me why he's town for it...

[Kthxbye]

I'm very VERY confused why those posting right now haven't said shit about my 1160

There is literally a scum slip staring you in the face and you don't say shit about it? Really? If this is how this game is going to go, we're fucked and we all might as well just /ragequit and give the scum the victory instead of wasting our fucking time.

AS I'VE ASKED BEFORE, IF YOU DON'T THINK RM SCUM SLIPPED AS I POINTED OUT, EXPLAIN HOW IT'S NOT A FUCKING SCUMSLIP OR FUCKING VOTE HIM. NOW.

[Kthxbye]

AS I'VE ASKED BEFORE, IF YOU DON'T THINK RM SCUM SLIPPED AS I POINTED OUT, EXPLAIN HOW IT'S NOT A FUCKING SCUMSLIP OR FUCKING VOTE HIM. NOW.

I'm pretty meh on it. I get where you are coming from but its not I haven't seen a "scum slip" from town. At this point in time we are basically going to kill one of RM/ika today and then I'll vig RM tonight. Help me kill ika.

Hows-about we lynch scum RM and then you can vig whoever the fuck you'd like?

I don't like ika, but I also don't like ABR, KidA, SC or Flubber for the similar reasons. Lurkers hide scum and those are all at the bottom of the content pile. The difference is, none of those are even close to exhibiting purely scum behavior nor have they basically claimed scum with:

Scum on my wagon are pribably in NJ/dragonspawn/dgb.
If I get lynched please look at Nero, AA and dgb.
Iai, peacebringer, telltale, Ika and d3x are fairly confident town.
There is definitely scum pushing either mine or dgbs wagon. Whichever of us gets lynched examine the wagon tomorrow.

I call him out on his slip and he follows up with

Ok, dgb is looking more town. Their feustration looks fenuine.

(these are back to back posts from him mind you).
This is just scum scum scum and he's getting away with it. I've never seen someone so scummy be so hard to fucking lynch.

[Kthxbye]

Wow, time out. When the hell did you claim to be a Vig? How the hell did I miss this?

Because THIS:

evilpacman18, vanilla townie, died Night 1

This is a vig kill.

The scum kill failed.

This popped into my head soon as I started thinking about this vig thing.

Nero, are you claiming to have shot evil last night?

[Kthxbye]

vote:RM

if I can't get an ika wagon tomorrow HERE WILL BE BLOOD!

thought you were gonna vig him...

tell ya what, if ika is still around tomorrow, I help you lynch the shit outa him just for his trolling. If he's scum on top of it, even better.

RMs scum flip will put me in a good mood

[Kthxbye]

L-1

[Kthxbye]

No claim yet from RM?

I am a humble vanilla townie.

[Kthxbye]

This could be worth something if there was any indication of RM giving a fuck.

I freaking hate doubting myself, but this has me reviewing....

UNVOTE:

Till I can look at some things closer.

[Kthxbye]

@MOD: Updated VC pretty pls?

[Kthxbye]

cannot concieve that I could do anything townie.

Do you feel you've done anything townie? If so, quote it. Please tell me why I should consider literally anything you've posted this game as coming from town. Look at your ISO and pretend you are looking at ika or NJ or something and tell me if you think they should be viewed as town or scum.

Do you have a town game in your history that is so similar to your play in this game that it would make me reconsider you're alignment? If so, link it.

[Kthxbye]

Not lynching d3x, Nero, Garmr or any other flash wagon that's not 1 of 3 'players' (and I use that term loosely at this point).

I will say I'm sorta torn at this juncture. On one hand, everything about RM screams scum except for his zero desire to live what-so-ever. On the other, ika and ABR are equal pieces of shit this game and I know BOTH of them are capable of playing better than trolls which makes me wonder why they are trolling. Do one or both of them have something to hide? Are they letting town go at each others throats while they troll to avoid prods while waiting for town to thin itself out? I'm guessing those are nearly just as likely cases as RM being really bad scum and getting caught early and the only reason I'm not pushing one of them over RM is because RM posted more than troll shit and looks scummier for it.....

All that said, I still have to go with my gut on RM. I asked a question over 24 hours ago and he's already checked out to the point of not responding which makes my gut say he's scum not wanting to say anything else and accidentally out any information to hurt his scum buddies.

VOTE: RM

[Kthxbye]

Running Talley (unofficial):

randomidget (6): dragonspawn, d3x,Peacebringer, Garmr, StrangerCoug, Kthxbye
Ika (5): TheDudeAbides, Nero Cain, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TTH

[Kthxbye]

what's this internet crush you have on kthnxbye?

We made love one time and I'm that good.

[Kthxbye]

Well this has taken an interesting turn.
@d3x what was the question I missed?
If you have any questions for me please post them amd I will answer them before deadline.

....are you fucking serious?

[Kthxbye]

who is around right now?

[Kthxbye]

Ok, here's the deal. I'm wanting to switch to ika now.

I really don't like his AtE temper tantrum from out of nowhere. It doesn't fit with how he's played since replacing in. The more I look over it, the more fake it becomes. I also think an ika lynch at this point is actually more informative than an RM lynch even if RM is scum as well.

I think it's a good possibility both are scum and would explain why we are split on the wagons up to the last minute. Maybe RM is a scum PR and ika isn't or something, I dunno, cross that bridge later. What I do know is that ika's outburst is fake, his self vote is fake, and his trolling is not what I expect out of a player I know knows how to play.

Right now, unofficially I have:
Ika (6): TheDudeAbides, Nero Cain, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart, IAI,
randomidget (8): dragonspawn, d3x, Garmr, Peacebringer, StrangerCoug, Kthxbye, NJ, NC

If I switch along with NC switching back, we'd have:
Ika (8): TheDudeAbides, Nero Cain, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart, IAI, kthxbye, NC
randomidget (6): dragonspawn, d3x, Garmr, Peacebringer, StrangerCoug, NJ

[Kthxbye]

Good, so we have d3x and Dragon who are both already on RM and could switch to ensure a NoLynch doesn't happen.

I don't see anyone on that's on ika to switch over so I think ika it is.

[Kthxbye]

I'm on my mutha fuckin lunch break doing this shit..../sigh

VOTE: ika

[Kthxbye]

helloooooooooooo?

[Kthxbye]

@Kthx- IAI just said he'd Hammer midget to avoid a No Lynch. Why are you switching?

"just said" as in 2 hours ago? When I just (as in a lot less than 2 hours ago) asked who was here, he is not. And read my thoughts on ika. What's not to understand?

[Kthxbye]

Information-wise RM is the better lynch.

depends on how you look at it and what you think the flips are going to be.

There isn't a single person on the ika wagon (at the time I posted the unofficial) that is online right now to switch over.

[Kthxbye]

Ika (9): TheDudeAbides, Nero Cain, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart, IAI, kthxbye, dragon, NC

There. No Lynch avoided. Going to eat now.

[Kthxbye]

Someone said it in reverse already, but if ika flips town, you all owe me a fucking RM quickwagon tomorrow.

[Kthxbye]

And just because he isn't here now, doesn't mean he wouldn't be here at the deadline, but w/e.

VoteCount 2.12

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2015-02-03 10:00:00).

Too close for me to feel comfy with.

[Kthxbye]

Hey look! IAI's here...

Meh, w/e. Although RM posts contradictory shit, doesn't answer questions, isn't reading the thread and doing other scummy shit, ika is just as bad with his AtE and tantrum out of nowhere.

[Kthxbye]

I think I will have a nice healthy fruit salad for lunch. Who wants to be healthy with me?

[Kthxbye]

What's the case on Ika?

I really don't like his AtE temper tantrum from out of nowhere. It doesn't fit with how he's played since replacing in. The more I look over it, the more fake it becomes.

[Kthxbye]

Ika (8): TheDudeAbides, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart, IAI, kthxbye, dragon, NC

TDA is right.

So now that enough people are on to lynch either.....what's it gonna be folks?

[Kthxbye]

Stfu AtE. Something alignment indicative please or I won't hammer

You, yourself, have already said you'd be willing to lynch ika. Look back and see what your own reasoning is. Are you willing to No Lynch or something?

[Kthxbye]

Sorry, you didn't say ika specifically. You said:

Today I'm willing to lynch anyone on the RM wagon + dragonspawn, DGB and any lurker/no-reason-provider

[Kthxbye]

I told you. It's fake. But hey, if you'd rather lynch RM, I'm still on board with that as well. I, unlike you, saw the fake in ika's tantrum and there's no reason to fake anything as town. tick fucking tock though

[Kthxbye]

~20 minutes

p.edit: If ika flips town, he was the counter wagon to confirmed scum and we have everyone pushing ika really hard all day long to look at. Same thing if we lynch RM and he flipped town but in reverse.

[Kthxbye]

If RM flips scum though, it's more of a 'well, duh' scenario. If ika flips scum, we have all those people pushing ika over following me to RM who look town as fuck. Ika's flips yield more info. Why does it sound like you have an agenda with getting RM lynched that's more than just lynching scum?

[Kthxbye]

If RM flips town it's you d3x or Garmr tomorrow lol. How many townies do you think you can mislynch until you get served, scum?

he says as he joins every wagon said players are on....

[Kthxbye]

Ika (9): TheDudeAbides, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart, IAI, kthxbye, dragon, NC, NJ

[Kthxbye]

D1's Lynch:
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

firebound12 (1): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

,

Ika

TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget, YuniChikako

Not Voting -

Kthxbye

,

evilpacman18

, StrangerCoug
--------------------------------------
Day2's Lynch:
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

Ika

(LYNCH): TheDudeAbides, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart,

Ika

, I Am Innocent,

Kthxbye

, dragonspawn, Nero Cain
Nero Cain (2): Albert B. Rampage, Flubbernugget
randomidget (5): d3x, Garmr, Peacebringer, StrangerCoug, NakedJogger
--------------------------------------
VOTE: RM

I still think there is a good chance that RM is scum and as ika pretty much ensured his lynch with his self-vote, I think RM is a scum PR. We already have 2 town PR's down and ika flipped a goon. I think scum are protecting their PR's.

I also wanna know if those who pushed ika over RM are more likely to be town for it. RM flips scum, Ika's wagon needs to be looked at for multiple scum. RM flips town, those pushing Ika over RM look town as fuck. Good info and the loss of wasted space or a probable scum PR. Wins all around from where I sit.

Another thing to look at is the KidA death. Unless we have a vig in the mix, it's really odd that he was not on either lynch wagon and stuck to his DGB vote for 2 days straight. I don't see the scum motivation to off him since he wasn't the towniest looking player in this game by far. DGB needs a closer look I think.

I also wouldn't cry over an ABR lynch today. I don't know how I feel about the possibility that both ika and ABR were scum trying to pull some gambit of being trolls though....

d3x: Thoughts on RM now after ika flip? Why SC?
TDA: Why dragon? You think there was a bus going on at the end of the day?
TTH: Why d3x?
Nero: Why ABR vs looking at people on the main wagons? Why not Flubbernugget?

[Kthxbye]

Why would I bus a buddy when

I could have easily gotten an RM mislynch?

Can anyone guess why I quoted this (hint, it's bolded).

[Kthxbye]

d3x is town. He'd never NEVER fight the ika wagon as ika's scum buddy. He would have bussed that shit to kingdom come. Move your votes somewhere else. That's all I'm going to post for now.

Not feeling this game atm. Got some other stuff going on and feel like if I posted anything more, I'd just be a dick.

[Kthxbye]

So...I saw neighborhood cop claim with an investigation. I know DGB was pushing pretty damn hard to get that claim and I wanna know why. Like NJ, you tell us you have a guilty on ABR but you ALSO said you were a vig yesterday, so you'll pardon me if I don't immediately believe you. Something is fishy about this whole full claim without the full claim. If you're a neighborhood cop, you have innocents for as well I assume? Why did you not include those in your claim the first time?

All that said, I'm up for lynching ABR without any sort of claim so.....

VOTE: ABR

Albert B. Rampage (6): Dripping Goofball, Nero Cain, TheDudeAbides, I Am Innocent, NakedJogger, kthxbye
Garmr (1): d3x
Nero Cain (6): Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Flubbernugget, StrangerCoug, randomidget,
StrangerCoug (1): TellTaleHeart

[Kthxbye]

It's obvious nero fake claiming who ever is voting abr now is pretty much guaranteed scum

Yes to the first half of this sentence, no to the second.

^

Holy shit, TTH and I see eye to eye on something...

[Kthxbye]

....and there's another....

BRB, need to reevaluate my read on the situation....

[Kthxbye]

D1's Lynch:
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

firebound12 (1): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

,

Ika

TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget, YuniChikako

Not Voting -

Kthxbye

,

evilpacman18

, StrangerCoug
--------------------------------------
Day2's Lynch:
Dripping Goofball (1):

Kid A

Ika

(LYNCH): TheDudeAbides, randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TellTaleHeart,

Ika

, I Am Innocent,

Kthxbye

, dragonspawn, Nero Cain
Nero Cain (2): Albert B. Rampage, Flubbernugget
randomidget (5): d3x, Garmr, Peacebringer, StrangerCoug, NakedJogger
--------------------------------------

You're not conftown, no matter what d3x says, so stop coloring yourself green when you do this? And PRs should be blue, kthxbbye

Make your own strawberry shortcake VCA if you don't like it.

[Kthxbye]

..like not alignment indicative, mhhkey.

Fair enough, but seeing as I know for sure, you'll pardon my assumption that everyone else should. If it makes you feel better, I think you're pretty town after reading up yesterday, if that wasn't clear today.

[Kthxbye]

...yeah...Nero as scum doesn't make much sense. This whole, "derp, I'm playing super VI so I'm obv town" crap from RM is fake as hell.

VOTE: RM

I don't see my vote moving.

[Kthxbye]

I dunno garmr. The gambit doesn't make sense for Nero as scum unless he really thought most of us wouldn't think he's scum. It'd be a huge risk/gambit and one that would have been taken right after losing a teammate. It also doesn't make sense considering ABR was VT. The hammer from RT and his play throughout the game is more indicative of scum imo.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kthxbye]

For real should we lynch RM first? I don't even know.

You know my opinion. I still have a loss at the hands of a semi-active lurk-shit-sack fresh enough in my mind to not let RM live another day.

I don't see Nero pulling that as scum.

I have my town reads.

[Kthxbye]

cut the intelligence bashing. we're looking for scum, not trolling the internet looking to fight. this is a game and as such everyone has anopinion. just cuz it differs from yours doesnt make it or the person stupid.

RM still hasn't done anything to take away my scum read of his play. he does NOT get a free pass just because ika flipped scum and that he could be a scum PR is a valid concern and a likely reason ika self voted and went all conf scum in his posting.

[Kthxbye]

kthx. Tell me one thing that SC has done this game?

TBH, I'm not really looking into anyone else at this point. I have my town reads, my null reads, and RM as scum.

SC has pretty much skated off my radar as have multiple people. I do remember leaning weakly town on SC at one point but don't recall why right now. If RM wasnt around right now, I'd be looking at flubber as he's next scummiest on my null list.

[Kthxbye]

Nero Cain an SC are both scum reads but I don't think they're scum together

^posts like these are the why.

flubber, explain to me what good this post is in finding scum. you say 2 people are scum reads yet post zero reasons and avoid trying to convince anyone to agree.

[Kthxbye]

maybe, but who's remaining? I doubt scum is only 3 man and theres no reason to think it's multiball at this point. If not RM, then who?

[Kthxbye]

Im also not a fan of IaI or PB and both are on the SC wagon weakly...more reason to lean town on SC.

You're also not 100% in my book. Maybe I'm wrong and you are just really ballsy scum this game.

nobody on SC is a town read of mine right now so....yeah.

[Kthxbye]

give me a case stronger than mine on RM and we'll talk

[Kthxbye]

[Kthxbye]

Ironically someone recently said that I had one of the best playstyle on mafiascum.

I'm gonna remember this forever

[Kthxbye]

especially after he flips scum

[Kthxbye]

give me a case stronger than mine on RM and we'll talk

you have no case on RM, you have a supposition of there being 2 scum run up and one more powerful than another. It is a sketchy premise imo...

You have got to be joking....

Try to use an ISO before you talk out your ass

[Kthxbye]

your conclusion of RM power role is not founded on much and is a weak premise

This part is my mind trying to figure out why goon ika was lynched over RM. It's not my case. In order for RM to be town, multiple things have to be true.

1. He's literally not paying attention or reading any post in this game. Seriously.
2. He's so damned VI, that he should probably play about 100 more noobie games and then quit playing MS altogether.
3. He has to have zero desire to win this game as town.
4. He has to not understand that town has to find scum and lynch them while at the same time try and explain why they themselves aren't scum.

If all 4 of these things are true, then I will be able to see RM as town. Otherwise, I think he's a bad player that got a scum role and since his bad play is not getting him lynched, he's being coached to keep it up and look VI as possible. Guess which I think is more likely.

[Kthxbye]

Nero, what's your read on DGB

[Kthxbye]

gun to my head? town

Okay....

So.....

Why haven't you been suspicious of DGB if you thought she was dropping some sort of hint to you that she had a result on ABR yet turned out to flip town? I'm not asking why you went along with it, I'm more interested in why, today, you haven't been more curious about her really at all. As it reads now, you're pretty much just saying, 'meh, thought you had a result and needed a scapegoat...ah well'. There's no hint that you think she might be scum using you as a scapegoat to get ABR and now you lynched.

[Kthxbye]

there's like no reason I should have not believed DGB.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Why was there no reason not to believe DGB? Do YOU know she's town somehow? That's the thing I'm having a hard time with the more I think on it. Why were/are you so trusting of DGB that you felt you had no reason to not believe she had some sort of result? On top of that, why are you not questioning that after ABR flipped town?

[Kthxbye]

but I wouldn't consider dex competent.

This made me laugh.

[Kthxbye]

And lastly for the quadra-post, still waiting on reasons/a case why anyone else is scummier (by play) than RM.

I'm just not buying the VI crap. He's lurking and keeping up with posts that make zero sense. As town, I'd think (and he has shown in previous games I have skimmed through) that he has the ability and would have the desire to actually know what's going on and help hunt for scum. As it stands now, he's playing up the VI card ultra hard and I think he's being coached by scumbuddies to do so.

p.edit: Thanks. Thirty fucking four..../sigh

[Kthxbye]

Why should I have not believed that her? Why should I suspect DGB when you don't even suspect her?

Paranoia.

Oh, but I do suspect her....just not as much as certain others atm. I trust nobody in this game. d3x is dropping his town tells all over the place and I have no real reason other than POE to think he scum and yet the only reason I'm not calling him possible scum every other page is because I'm keeping my paranoia in check with him. I got a solid read on him and I'm sticking with it. It's new.

Hell, it makes no sense for scum-you to fake claim like that yet, here I am, being paranoid you're pulling a fast one.

Basically, I prolly shouldn't play this game cuz I assume everyone is a liar-face and scum.

[Kthxbye]

Ok, here's the deal on Nero and DS. They are both scum or they are masons. Pretty fucking simple. With Nero faking a Cop result yesterday, it kinda fits if he's got Mason to lean back on today. If ABR flipped scum, well, he'd have been targeted last night and we'd have a confirmed town today. If ABR flipped town (which he did), Nero would have the Mason claim today with his other Mason being killed last night or alive to confirm the claim. Nero/DS mason's makes sense with the fake cop result of yesterday.

Here's where I sit with this. I think there are scummier players in this game than someone claiming Mason. The fact that Nero's wagon hasn't disappeared by this post is ridiculous. Niether Nero nor DS are going to be lynched today and if they are both scum fake claiming Mason's, it will become apparent as no scum team in the world (yeah, even RM's team) would let claimed Mason's anywhere near end game.

Let me put this in bullet points so it can be understood by even the weakest of minds.

Nero/DS are scum...it will be apparent and an easy 2 scum kills:
-They won't be NK'ed. This will be telling due to no scum team will leave them alive for long.
-They just sealed their fate together and if they are alive anywhere close to end game, they will be lynched quickly and we will have an easy win.
-This is prolly the worst play I've ever seen from anyone getting a scum PR.

Nero/DS are town Masons:
-Scum will NK them and there is literally no reason for us to discuss this any further as it will work itself out with scum doing the lifting.
-They are likely the next 2 NK's or at minimum one of them will be in the next 3 NK's. Once one dies, the other is confirmed which is a good thing for a day.
-Again, IT WILL WORK ITSELF OUT and become apparent without us trying to figure it out with guessing today.

Here's the last and most important point. Even if you believe they are scum faking this Mason gambit, if there is even a 1% chance they are telling the truth, lynching either one of them TODAY is just plain fucking stupid and you are stupid. If they are telling the truth and enough of you choose to lynch one today, YOU ARE DOING THE SCUM'S FUCKING JOB FOR THEM!
-Let's pretend for illustration enough town morons exist to lynch Nero today after this post. He flips mason. Guess who dies tonight. The would-be confirmed town partner. We just let scum kill a mason partnership with a single NK.
-Let's pretend for illustration that we don't lynch Nero today and neither Nero nor DS die tonight or the next night. We just caught 2 scum easy and have had 2 days to find other scum in the process as there is no way scum Nero/DS would pull this gambit as the last 2 scum in a 3-man scum team (ridiculous in and of itself from a pure setup speculation position).

tldr: Nero/DS may or may not be Masons but this will work itself out for us and lynching either today is stupid. Vote RM.

[Kthxbye]

Well then.....I feel stupid.

I see that it's Garmr and you claiming to be masons and Nero, TDA, and D3x are the neighborhood. I must re-read.

Well, I guess that says nothing for the Nero wagon except that 2 scum or 2 town are on it. I guess replace Nero with Garmr in the parts of my last post that makes sense and ignore all the claim to fall back on stuff.

I'm not too sure that there is an all town neighborhood AND a mason pair in one game. I must think. Will post on this later, but wow....I still feel stupid.

Doesn't negate RM being scum though.

[Kthxbye]

Sry thought I posted more recently. D3x is quite clearly SC's buddy. Hw knows if he votes Nero he will look terrible so he votes the already declared compromise lynch, whilst leaving himself open to a bus if the SC wagon happens.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: strangercoug
I think d3x is scummier, but this will be an easier lynch.

Might be the scummiest post I've seen all game and yet people are STILL unwilling to see it. Can't wait till y'all finally catch on, lynch (or at this rate lose to) him and see his scum role so I can laugh and say "I fucking told you so".

[Kthxbye]

Sry thought I posted more recently. D3x is quite clearly SC's buddy. Hw knows if he votes Nero he will look terrible so he votes the already declared compromise lynch, whilst leaving himself open to a bus if the SC wagon happens.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: strangercoug

I think d3x is scummier, but this will be an easier lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: d3x
D3x scum SC prob scum

Nero, we can lynch SC when d3x flips scum. D3x wagon will be easier.

...I don't even think I have to explain this one to anyone using half a brain.

[Kthxbye]

This big push of d3x right AFTER he says he'll pretty much be V/LA is suspect as hell.

I've went through IAI's case on d3x and this is the point in time where I'd be doubting my town read on him in most games. If I had started in this game, then sure, maybe he'd be using my meta knowledge of him against me to trick me, but I didn't start in this game, I replaced in thus he had no reason to start this game out full of his town meta other than the obvious conclusion that he's town.

I don't think a scum-Nero acts as he did yesterday. I've gone back and forth on this and I've come to the conclusion it'd be just too risky to try right after scum got lynched the day before AND the TTH NK fits with scum wanting to lynch Nero.

Nero Cain (3): StrangerCoug, Flubbernugget, NakedJogger

If there's scum still on Nero, I'd go with SC/Flubber. With RM being scum (wake up people), I'm not sure it's SC what with SC going after RM and all. I'm not scum-reading NJ anymore at this time, though today has me doubting myself on that read.

Lastly, TDA needs a harder look. After he escaped D1, he's pretty much skated under the radar. Pen was the reason TDA wasn't lynched and this has been overlooked I think. Once we get an RM scum flip, this is going to be addressed.

That's all the time I have for now. If I missed a question directed at me, let me know.

[Kthxbye]

I think it is time you start listing this dropping of d3x's town tells that are all over the place.

First: I've already talked about his push/tunnel of pen. Right or wrong about pen, his entire D1 play is his town play.

Second: If d3x were scum, you'd not have a case on him like you do as he is ultra careful about where he votes so as to NOT leave a trail. You found a trail that on the surface, looks convincing, yet a scum-d3x would have never let that happen.

Third (and maybe most importantly): I'm not dead yet. Whether I town read or scum read a scum-d3x when I'm town, I'm dead by now because I know him too well. This is also important for another reason that I'm not going to discuss at this time.

Fourth: scum-d3x isn't going to so openly push AGAINST the scum-ika wagon at the end of the day like he did. He would have bussed the ever loving shit outa ika. This is on par with the 3rd reason in importance of why d3x is conf-town for me and you all should listen.

[Kthxbye]

D3x had 3 votes before he claimed v/la, and the 5th vote was from nearly confirmed town garmr. So what is suspicious....PB who claimed to want to vote d3x just a few pages before the wagon took off.

No, that is a big reach on ur part.

You forgot about the NJ intent/willingness to hammer. He might as well be L-1. You also forget that RM is fucking obv scum.

[Kthxbye]

If you all are unwilling to lynch RM today for some retarded reason, I'm more than okay with lynching SC over d3x.

I can see RM and SC being scum together especially as of late. SC's use of HoS on RM reads scummy to me because it pretty much reads as: 'I'm ready to bus my partner but not willing to give up on the nero lynch just yet'. This is a good enough reason for me to compromise on SC. If SC flips scum, maybe you'll all finally listen to me about RM with the HoS post in mind.

An SC scum flip will also pretty much confirm a town-Nero and, in my eyes, damn TDA as the scum in the neighborhood as I believe Garmr and DS are masons and I don't see a full town neighborhood with a pair of masons in the same game.

[Kthxbye]

your tunnel is getting old, you should be at China by now

Maybe someday others will listen.

VOTE: SC

[Kthxbye]

No, DGB had it right the first time.

[Kthxbye]

Day 4 ends in 1 day, 8 hours, 30 minutes.

...and we have 3ish wagons. Time to consolidate to at least 2.

Thoughts that are important for this to happen from my POV:
I think d3x is town.
I think Garmr and DS are actually masons.
I think there has to be at least 1 scum in the neighborhood and it's either Nero or TDA. I'm currently leaning TDA, but I'm not 100% town reading Nero. Today though, I think there are better lynches.
I think RM is scum and I think SC could be a partner.
I think Flubber and PB are sketchy at best
I'd think IAI pretty darn town if d3x wasn't the focus of his investigation. The investigation itself is pretty town.
I was town reading NJ for play in the previous days but today I'm not so confident. Similar thoughts on DGB.

[Kthxbye]

So RM is paying enough attention to flip his vote to whatever wagon gains momentum but unwilling to actually produce content.

No. I will not let this stand. RM or bust.

VOTE: RM

I can not see how any of you and I mean ANY OF YOU can think RM is anything but fucking scum and this is starting to piss me the fuck off that he's not being lynched for it. Not moving my vote the rest of the day. Whether or not RM is bussing SC or not, I'm not moving my vote.

[Kthxbye]

I don't even care after RMs continued play. 2375 is the straw that is the scum claim that broke the camel's back

[Kthxbye]

but atleast RM is participating. Meanwhile scum Flubber is doing jack all.

This is not exactly true but I agree with the sentiment behind it in regards to Flubber.

For those of you too lazy to do it and/or are RM's scum buddies:

Spoiler: RM's ISO from just today

VOTE: nero
Sorry abr. Whether or not Nero is scum he is fucking ip this game and needs to go.

I miscounted and the lack of warning meant I thought it was L-2. I was expecting someone to post warning.

WHAT ABOUT RM YOU FUCKS?! How could town hammer like that?

I do it all the time

I can confirm this. I remember in our first game together one player did this twice then was NK'ed by scum.
Do you really think I would continue to play in a way that is gettong me scumread if I was scum? The main reason I'm being scumread is for my playstyle.
Ironically someone recently said that I had one of the best playstyle on mafiascum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: naked jogger
100% gut, I am having a hard time trying to put a csse togrther but I think they are scum.

Sry thought I posted more recently. D3x is quite clearly SC's buddy. Hw knows if he votes Nero he will look terrible so he votes the already declared compromise lynch, whilst leaving himself open to a bus if the SC wagon happens.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: strangercoug
I think d3x is scummier, but this will be an easier lynch.

You need to say a bit more than this is scummy, kthx. That's just lazy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: d3x
D3x scum SC prob scum

Nero, we can lynch SC when d3x flips scum. D3x wagon will be easier.

Nero, you say you want us to believe you are town. Easiest way is for d3x to flip scum.

And if he doesn't? We'll be in the same spot we are in today. Like SC, Flubber and kthx are all scum and that already makes 4. A 5th IS possible but possible is the keyword for me. I'm going to feel pretty bad if he flips scum, I mean I'd lynch him over 100% town me but I mean....I just really want a dead SC and that'll happen regardless of dx's flip.

SC isnt happening today Nero.

Jesus christ
UNVOTE:
VOTE: stranger coug

RM goes from, 'Nero may or may not be scum but he needs to go' to basically saying, 'I'll lynch whoever Nero wants to lynch today'

Come on people. It's not rocket science. There is not a single post in his ISO that even hints at any sort of town motivation. Unless someone can show me town motivation from him, I expect his lynch today because the only explanation for having zero town motivation in posting is because there is none which means it's scum posting. Even VI's have SOME hint of town motivation in some of their posts.

[Kthxbye]

Kthx, there were 5 players on Nero. Now there are two. Multiple people have changed reads on him. Kthx d3x and SC scum.

"if you think I'm scum for my shit scum play, you're scum"

Get the fuck outa here.

[Kthxbye]

Spoiler: Every single fucking reference from RM about SC

Nero, Kthx, Dragon, know what's funny, you don't even look at why SC or I am voting PeaceBringer.

Do you know he has 4 votes D1, 3 of which are for the two dead townies?

He defended Nero by attacking me for asking for general reads on all the players. Most likely protecting a scummate, and the scum in the Neighborhood.

Then he posts today, ONE POST AFTER GETTING A VOTE, and doesn't vote himself. Lurking, and still hasn't voted (aka taking stances).

But you three come after me because I'm posting FROM WORK (look at the time and where I live), ON MY CELL, WHICH I HATE DOING, a correction to the mod and getting my vote out there (yeah, I update my vote analysis on my work computer since I have excel on that).

So go screw yourselves.

95% likelihood of at least one scum in {Nero, Peacebringer}

The fact that the majority of the players continuing ignoring/defending these players makes me only feel better about these 2 scumreads I have.

I think you are onto something here, especially qith nero's defence since.
Nero is joining my scumreads and pssibly peacebringer.

Sry thought I posted more recently. D3x is quite clearly SC's buddy. Hw knows if he votes Nero he will look terrible so he votes the already declared compromise lynch, whilst leaving himself open to a bus if the SC wagon happens.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: strangercoug
I think d3x is scummier, but this will be an easier lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: d3x
D3x scum SC prob scum

Nero, we can lynch SC when d3x flips scum. D3x wagon will be easier.

Nero, you say you want us to believe you are town. Easiest way is for d3x to flip scum.

And if he doesn't? We'll be in the same spot we are in today. Like SC, Flubber and kthx are all scum and that already makes 4. A 5th IS possible but possible is the keyword for me. I'm going to feel pretty bad if he flips scum, I mean I'd lynch him over 100% town me but I mean....I just really want a dead SC and that'll happen regardless of dx's flip.

SC isnt happening today Nero.

Kthx, there were 5 players on Nero. Now there are two. Multiple people have changed reads on him. Kthx d3x and SC scum.

Find me where his SC scum read with reasoning is located. It's like Where's Waldo without the fucking Waldo.

Get the fuck outa here.

[Kthxbye]

Garmr, give it up. I asked this question ages ago and got shit for a response to it.

[Kthxbye]

Is bust in this instance, equal to a no lynch?

some are hoping for a switch under pressure for their fav suspect.

IAI, unless you think I'm scum, pretty sure you can figure out the answer of what I'll do from my p2365.

None of you fucks have argued any of my points against RM. NONE OF YOU FUCKS! All anyone ever fucking says is shit like

I'm not seeing rm flip scum. If you guys really want to lynch him. I'm not jumping on that.

So yeah, part of me wants "bust in this instance" to fucking equal a no lynch. My desire to win games on the other hand means we need flips to figure things out.

Still waiting on more than a 'RM is just VI' argument. If ANY of the people I know here who have been around more than a minute tried to pull any of this shit, they'd be lynched. Why is RM special?

[Kthxbye]

I'm around and will hammer if something comes up with DS.

[Kthxbye]

If SC flips town, Nero needs to be lynched tomorrow followed closely by RM.

If SC flips scum, Nero's all but confirmed. The only way scum-Nero bus's a scum-SC is if scum-Nero is a scum PR. If scum-Nero was a PR, then I really don't see how he'd gambit getting town-ABR mislynched.

[Kthxbye]

Nice scumclaim dragonspawn.

Only way that's a scum-claim is if you think DS and Garmr are BOTH scum and like I pointed out before, this will probably be revealed for us as scum won't let mason's live too long.

[Kthxbye]

I know exactly what you're saying. What I'm saying is we don't have a flip yet and there's still a chance that SC flips scum. I'm also saying in order for DS to be scum, Garmr must also be scum and they tied themselves to each other on D4 in a large game which is ridiculous to do if they are scum. I'm also saying that if they are scum together, it will be apparent shortly without us worrying about it and if they are town masons, it will be apparent shortly without us worrying about it.

If you wanna say it was a poor hammer, THAT I can agree with. That said, SC could have claimed looooong ago.

[Kthxbye]

Well, I guess that says nothing for the Nero wagon except that 2 scum or 2 town are on it.

Can yu explain this for me?

It's self explanatory. DS and Garmr are either scum gambitting a mason claim or they are town masons. Either way they are the same alignment. Need a picture? cuz I'm fairly certain that didn't need explained.

[Kthxbye]

Garmr could still be idiot town

which would make ds town unless you think they are just pulling a mason gambit because they have really solid town reads on eachother. Is that what youre hinting at?

[Kthxbye]

But guys guys. Flubber is doing NOTHING this game

This seriously makes me laugh so fucking hard. I'm not saying it's wrong or doesn't warrant a lynch, I just think it's funny that you expect anyone in this game to care about this point other than me when everyone has ignored this very same point and much more in my case on RM.

still waiting for kthx return and tunnel some more...

Not sure if I'm going to. What's going through my head at this moment is if RM is scum like everything he's posted leads me (and should have led everyone else looooong ago) to believe, why the hell am I still alive?

Part of me thinks it may be because I'm wrong and RM is just really really stupid VI dumbfuck town and scum is banking on me continuing to tunnel as you suggest to get either RM mis-lynched or get me mis-lynched for tunneling. If this is the case, your comment points to you being said scum.

The other part of me thinks RM is indeed scum but seeing as nobody has fucking listened, they've got time to deal with me later.

Then there is still the whole is there scum in the neighborhood (I still lean yes) and why one of the claimed mason's didn't die last night?

I'm going to review some shit but for now,

VOTE: Flubber

[Kthxbye]

Actually Flubber has a history of randomly leaving games for a bit. Him doing it isn't necessarily scum.

Gee wiz, thank you so much for you're insite.

[Kthxbye]

This game is moving along nicely....

/end sarcasm

[Kthxbye]

Better question that I want everyone to answer is: Were scum bussing Flubber, off the wagon, or both?

[Kthxbye]

@ mod what would a masons flip say?

What exactly is the purpose of this question?

@NJ: What is the purpose of your crazy today?

[Kthxbye]

So you killed peace thinking he was a mason

It sure looks like that.

I keep going back to why I'm alive if RM is scum though. Unless scum-RM isn't very smart or is banking on me not going back to thinking he's scum, if RM is scum, I should be dead.

On the other hand, it sure as hell looks like RM killed PB thinking he was a mason and was trying to find out why the flip said vanilla instead of mason.

...I just don't know. I can't believe a scum-RM would leave me alive this long though.

[Kthxbye]

Wouldn't rm be part of a scum team maybe he has little say of who to kill and that would be a valid explanation.

Are you saying:

'If RM is part of the scum team, maybe he has little to say of who to kill'
or
'If RM is part of the scum team, he'd have a say of who to kill'

First meaning he could be scum and just didn't have a say in who to kill because nobody took his opinion seriously and the second meaning he's prolly not scum since he'd have a say in who to kill and kthx is still alive?

If the first, then the only way that works is if we have 2 or more scum left. If only 1 scum left, then I should be dead if RM is scum.
If the second....yeah, that's what I'm saying.

....but fuck, he's so scummy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If not RM, then who?

d3x brought up a good point on NJ. I thought NJ town early with play, but recently, it's been way less town.
Garmr and DS are off the hook as they are claimed masons and the only way either is scum is if they are both scum meaning a 5 man scum team. This certainly isn't out of the realm of possibilities and if they ARE scum and we wait too late to see either flip, then we lose to a really good gambit.

I still don't think d3x is scum AND I do think there is a good possibility there is scum in the neighborhood especially if only 1 scum left and the masons are true. That narrows it down to Nero or TDA. Of the 2, I'm leaning TDA since looking back, we had a town mislynch which was the counter wagon to TDA. Only problem with that is...

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Peacebringer

, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

,

Ika

There's only 1 flipped scum on the wagon (though ika cut quickly in front of flubber who was also scum).

If TDA is scum and killa was a counter wagon, why isn't there more scum on the wagon....unless again, there are 2 scum left in which case it could be TDA and one other out of d3x, NJ, DGB, RM. I guess it's possible for 2 of the 3 neighbors to be scum, but that would mean d3x is scum and I like my read on him. Then again, I could be wrong.

UGH!

My brain hurts. I just spewed thoughts all over this post. Sorry if they don't make sense, but I'm lost. It'd be pretty pimp to hit scum, have it be the last scum, and win the game today with a landslide town win though....

Okay, I'm going to go before I hurt myself. All that and I haven't really looked into Nero too much and I didn't even get around to talking about DGB whom has been under my radar for most the game.

[Kthxbye]

I'm racking my brain to try and remember any time d3x has posted like this as scum as it's ballsy scum play and from what I know about d3x scum, he's the opposite of ballsy as scum.

Which games are you using for your d3x scum meta?

Pick any of them. They are on his wiki. I think http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28174 is a good example of his scum play.

More than using games though, I'm also using our many discussions about scum play and how he plays scum. He's methodical and calculated and it's obvious he isn't that way this game.

tldr; His town game is more honest and has mistakes since, as town, he is as lost as the rest of us.

[Kthxbye]

dodging prods till Wednesday. Work is busy

[Kthxbye]

phone posting on break:

nj: why aren't you asking ME this question? If you are asking this for reason I think you are, wouldnt asking the source be easier?

[Kthxbye]

why would your death confirm ktnx????

I don't think it would. d3x has the same info you do.

[Kthxbye]

SC not doubting the four scum thing is pretty much just WIFOM. SC could have not doubted it in order to make us think that way on purpose, or SC could have not doubted it because it's true. SC not doubting it doesn't make me lean either way as SC could have made a mistake or made an educated play to make us think there are only 4.

I'm pretty much at the point that I think any one of you all could be scum. I see scum and town motivation from pretty much everyone.

The only person I can't see any town motivation from is RM. The ONLY reason I keep doubting my read on him is because I'm alive. This could be because there is more than one scum left, it could be that RM was taking a risk in thinking I'd doubt myself on him, or it could be because RM is just that bad.

All I know is if RM isn't scum, I don't wanna be around come end game if we haven't lynched him and if he is scum, well, we should lynch the shit outa him.

The fact that I think DS and Garmr are actually masons and voting RM right now gives me good feelings as well.

VOTE: RM

I think this is the best play today.

As for d3x confirming me town, well, there are alive players who have the same info. That doesn't make d3x confirmed town, but it SHOULD make you think along those lines. Not only have I explained that his scum meta doesn't exist in this game, but for what purpose would scum-d3x (whether or not there are more than 1 scum left) confirm me as town? Unless d3x and I are both scum, which I know isn't the case, scum wouldn't want to confirm anyone as town. The only way this is remotely possible is if d3x is scum, there are 2 scum left, and he felt this was his best play at getting me lynched tomorrow. Even then it's a stretch seeing as if he's scum and was lynched today, he'd flip scum and his 'kthx is conf town after my flip' would be null and void. I dunno, I just don't see this play from a scum-d3x.

pool for today for me is:
RM
DGB
NJ
Nero
TDA
pretty much in that order.

[Kthxbye]

You should know better Garmr.

[Kthxbye]

I never thoight kthx was conftown. I think he is probably town due to the amount of content he is generating. Interesting how he votes me immediately after the masons do. Also neither ds or garmr provided reasoning.

I think it's interesting that you can post almost immediately after getting votes on you but have to be prodded to post without voted on you. I also find it interesting that its happened more than once this game.

[Kthxbye]

pray tell now exactly whats fishy?

[Kthxbye]

If its that I town read you enough to waste resources on you at one point, yeah, I'm kicking myself for that one.

[Kthxbye]

I'll go ahead and claim it it's going to help us figure this out sooner.

I'll take d3x and Garmr's opinion on that COA

[Kthxbye]

Here's the deal. I can see how each and every one of you might be scum. I do have a hierarchy of those least likely to most likely to be the remaining 1-2 scum. Anything more than 1-2 scum remaining means we lost and this game is bullshit so I'm not even considering it.

d3x: I know this guy and his meta. If he's scum, this is the worst game I've ever seen him play and I've seen him play a lot of games. I replaced in so him trying to flip his meta in such a way as to confuse/fool me holds no merit. He could be scum, but if he is, this is his worst display at it. Most of the reasons you all are giving that he's likely scum are things he'd never let happen if he were scum. VCA being a major part of this.

Garmr/DS: I am leaning on the side of actual masons vs some scum gambit they came up with at the start of the game. The evidence is there that they are connected from the start, so they are either both scum or masons. At this point, there is zero reason to consider lynching either one.

Nero: The scum team that has flipped so far has been bad. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Nero faked a claim as scum to get town lynched. That said, I don't think he's on the top of my list of scum because he didn't push DGB as scum after claiming to have read her as soft claiming a guilty on ABR. Also, if he actually thought DGB was softclaiming and he is scum, I'd think they'd have killed her just in case? I dunno, just not feeling Nero as scum right now, but it's possible.

RM: Scummy as fuck. That said, he's in this slot because I'm alive and if he were scum, he'd want me dead especially after we have flipped 3 scum. If he's last or last of 2, I shouldn't be playing this day. This makes me think the remaining scum aren't him and are hoping I continue to push. Unless we are policy lynching him today...

UNVOTE:

NJ: I got super town vibes from NJ early on, but play following the decision that he was town has been far from stellar. In fact, part of me thinks that because we have lynched 3 scum already, if NJ is scum, his lack of 'towniness' in the days following could be from a lack of care to continue on seeing as a probable majority of his teammates is dead and it's just him or him and one other. d3x's find of NJ's voting patterns also looks incriminating.

TDA: The counter wagon to our D1 town lynch. He hasn't even been really pressured since D1. If there is scum in the hood, this is the guy. If he's town, I can't help but wonder why scum haven't gotten rid of him and instead have picked people like IAI.

DGB: She has pretty much flown under my radar all game and that makes me weary. Her p2667 pings my scumdar way to much to ignore. "Look at the wagons... there is no way either of us are scum". This comment looks to me like scum being careful all game about what wagons they are on and not on in order to say something like this later in the game. Also, if RM is indeed town, she's lumping herself in with a town AND if there are 2 scum left and she is lynched, RM would be the next to go instead of her partner. If DGB flips scum and the game's not over, RM is pretty much confirmed town in my eyes from this post alone.

VOTE: DGB

Would compromise on TDA, NJ, or RM today.

[Kthxbye]

Wanna know what I find scummy about your questions?
-First, after a prod we get a "today" for the answer but after you show up 2nd on my scum list, you post damn near immediately.
-(Silimar to the first point) It appears like you are actively monitoring the thread yet don't feel the need to move anything along even when prod'ed
-You try and use VCA (yeah, that's how your first question reads) as a way to try and 'prove' your towniness which is actually just plain scummy. You are basically just saying, 'my scum buddies are late on the wagon and didn't push killa so I must be town'. Pfft, gtfo

For answers to your questions:
1. Ika and Flubber both desired to hammer. Both were scum. There's also this thing called bussing for town cred. Firebound did it twice which might say something about scum wanted to play this game out.
2. I'm worried about why a lot of the players are still alive. Myself, Nero, Garmr/DS.

If there's scum in the hood, it's you or Nero. What do you say about that? I'm town and I have a very solid town read on d3x. He's not an option to answer the question.

[Kthxbye]

If there's scum in the hood, I think it's d3x.

I think you're wrong.

I also think you could be scum and know you're wrong.

What do you think of DGB?

[Kthxbye]

Pretty sure Flubber came at you with more than RVS. Also pretty sure AA did as well. Yup, pretty sure.

[Kthxbye]

Is all 3 of the flipped scum voting for you enough to say bussing?

Also, if you think scum's RVS is meaningless and isn't to be taken into account, you're wrong. ALL of flipped scums behavior is relevant.

Do you have anything besides defending you'd like to post? Like a reads list with reasons perhaps?

[Kthxbye]

Hey RM, you have anything constructive to say about anything? A reads list maybe?

[Kthxbye]

Wait kthx was the fruit vendor who gave me fruit?

[Kthxbye]

Yes, I'm a fruit vendor (thanks Garmr).
N1: d3x
N2: NJ
N3: Garmr
N4: PB

4-shot and out of shots.

My PR is one of the very reasons I'm so weary of there being an all town neighborhood. It's also what doesn't allow me to 100% back the mason's claim. Mason's plus fruit vendor is pretty OP as far as pretty much confirming town members without flips.

I was also going through my reads yet again and I think NJ should be moved up above RM for the same reasons I think RM could actually be town. I was pretty obvious about giving fruit to dex D2, and decently obvious to NJ D3. I stopped with that as I figured that was enough to be able to point back to if people I fruited started getting targeted. If NJ is/was scum and got the hints that I fruited him (which I think he did on D3), why wouldn't scum-NJ take me out N3-5? Today's doubt of my alignment doesn't allow me to place NJ at 100% town for me because me not being NK'ed and instead the plan could be to get me lynched instead, but he didn't know I was x-shot and continuing to allow me to fruit people would be risky for scum I think.

Same thing can be added to d3x which is part of my solid town read on him as well.

I'd say the same for Garmr, but he obviously just now got that I was the one who fruited him.

[Kthxbye]

I crumbed in my first post D1 and after d3x and NJ got fruit. Thought that'd be enough.

[Kthxbye]

NJ: Are you playing a different game and getting shit confused or was I right about you not NK'ing me cuz you're going for some plan of getting me lynched?

Go ahead and explain your thought process of how you think I'm scum 4-shot fruit vendor with goon, goon, watcher, plus maybe one other. Let me get some popcorn as this with be entertaining.

[Kthxbye]

The perk of fuit vendor is to confirm yourself as town once there's only one scum left, So you're telling me you've used up 3 fruits for nothing and gave the last fruit to the guy who died.

I hope you realize how stupid this actually sounds.

You think I'm a scum aligned fruit vendor because a town aligned fruit vendor would behave in only a certain way.

As a side note, you just scum-slipped you know what scum-aligned PR's can and can't do. Only one way to know that...

VOTE: NJ

NJ is prolly the last scum seeing as he just slipped 'because a scum-aligned PR's can't do x-PR and kill the same night.' I've been around long enough to know this is 100% not a true statement in MS games and it's a MOD decision for each game. My guess is this game, scum can't use their PR and kill in the same night and NJ knows this because he's likely the last scum.

Lynch NJ and we win this with consecutive scum lynches. Almost a perfect game.

[Kthxbye]

We aren't flipping any of me, dx, kthx or the scum masons today.

So NJ, RM and DGB are the acceptable lynches for the day.

Then why are you voting me instead of one of them coughNJcough?

[Kthxbye]

Why are you worried that my vote is sitting on you?

Where did I express worry? I'm asking you why your posts and your vote aren't matching up.

That said, I already pointed out NJ's scum slip and it's pretty damned obvious we're getting another scum flip with his lynch. Why are you leaning to lynch DBG instead?

[Kthxbye]

@DGB: Why are you ignoring everything that isn't 'lynch d3x'?

[Kthxbye]

kthx, why didn't you save (at least one of) your shots for later in the game?

I didn't know that was a thing. I was using them for reaction testing the day after. Didn't think to save one for proof come endgame, which in hindsight, would have been smart.

Thing is, this shit wouldn't be alignment indicative anyway since if I was a scum fruit vendor , I would have/should have done the exact same thing, yes? Also, if I was a scum vendor, wouldn't it be likely that 1 of the other 3 to 4 people on the scum team would have mentioned something since it's apparently "the way" to play a fruit vendor? I dunno, I don't understand why d3x and NJ are on the complete opposite sides of my alignment. I DO have my suspicions though...*coughNJisscumcough*.... Hell, even Garmr unvoted when he realized I was the one who fruited him.

@DGB: you can keep posting that same old shit but it doesn't actually mean anything. You're clearing people cuz why? Scum wouldn't have 3 people voting 1 person? WTH logic is that to clear people? NJ just scum claimed so obviously your logic is faulty anyway.

[Kthxbye]

Do you know what the word "Generally" actually means? It means most but not all the time. You only ignore it because you're scum who probably has a PR that you can't use in conjunction with a kill. That inside knowledge would make you gloss over the word "Generally" while trying to flail your way outa being caught.

NJ, (and everyone NOT voting NJ right now), look at the timeline.

p2712: You slipped scum knowledge
p2714: I caught you
p2723: You try and get outa your hole by finding something on Google

You got caught and only THEN did you "get your info" from Google.

If you HAD Googled that before p2712, you would have included it in p2712. It being your 'proof' and all that I'm scum, why wouldn't you have included it?

Hate to break it to you, but since I'm town, you have and will never have any actual proof I'm scum. It's impossible. It's like trying to 'prove' a mason is scum after his partner flips town.

I respect your attempt to continue on in the game after your scum-buddies have died though. Question is, are you the last or do you have another buddy out there?

[Kthxbye]

d3x (2): randomidget, Dripping Goofball
Kthxbye (2): Nero Cain, NakedJogger, TheDudeAbides
NakedJogger (4): d3x, Kthxbye, Garmr, dragonspawn

This is current after TDA's tarded vote and RM unvoting and re-voting d3x

[Kthxbye]

I'll be around and even self vote to avoid a no lynch and show you just how scum NJ is for tomorrow.

[Kthxbye]

I'll be around and even self vote to avoid a no lynch and show you just how scum NJ is for tomorrow.

How will self voting help if you have only two votes at the moment?

In the event people got stupid and flashed me to L-1. I give no fucks. I'm basically VT now and apparently played my PR all wrong. It's my bad and b/c of my play, I prolly shouldn't be around come end game anyway. I don't want my poor play of, what I considered at the time, a pretty worthless role to even come into question if this game get's to end game.

I'll vote NJ, TDA, RM, DGB, Nero, or myself today. Masons and d3x are off the table.

[Kthxbye]

Day 6 ends in (expired on 2015-03-10 12:00:00)

[Kthxbye]

Unofficial VC

d3x (3): randomidget, Dripping Goofball, TheDudeAbides
Kthxbye (2): Nero Cain, NakedJogger
NakedJogger (4): d3x, Kthxbye, Garmr, dragonspawn

[Kthxbye]

Due to the only players around to prevent a NL are all voting the same person, it looks like it's going to be me or d3x getting lynched today.....just as I image scum want it. Since there can't be 5 scum left, there are some other town failing hard right now.

[Kthxbye]

Where is Nero? This is exactly why I asked him why his vote was on me instead of those he claims are worthy of lynch...

[Kthxbye]

Neg, I care because I don't see a NL being advantageous to town today. Like I said above, there aren't 5 scum left so the 5 (now 4) people who aren't around come deadline have to include town and thus, are failing.

There is always the thought though that you COULD be scum sitting on me. I just don't think that's the most likely scenario seeing as NJ scum slipped already.

So, which is it? me, d3x, or NJ? Is there a reason to wait to move your vote till the last minute?

[Kthxbye]

I learned that if d3x was scum and I fruited him and he understood the following day, he'd have killed me N2. No question about it. I know his scum play and that would have been it.

I thought the same of NJ but this push and scum slip flipped that read around.

I fruited Garmr for the same reason. If Garmr was scum with DS, they as a scum team don't want a fruit vendor being alive. The fact that he claims to not even remember or care (which I'm leaning on believing) means we prolly have actual masons as I'd feel that scum would have reviewed posts to find out who fruited them and off them.

I used my fruit in this way and not apparently in the 'normal' way because I didn't even think about it. If that means there is doubt surrounding me, then by all means, lynch me and get me outa the way for end game or let scum NK me along with the masons.

[Kthxbye]

asking you why you're wanting to wait is fear mongering? Pardon me if I don't trust people in a game of MS

[Kthxbye]

5 scum left, as in remaining, as in still alive.

NJ dropping knowledge of what scum can/can't do with regards to PRs and NKs.

Due to our history is why d3x would have killed me as a PR or trying to hunt other town PRs.

Side note: there is a major flaw in assuming I should have samsaved a fruit for end game. Let's say I had one left and could "prove" I used it instead of making a NK (which is still tarded as unless the MOD answers your question, there's no reason to assume scum couldn't do both), what's to stop scum from just not making a NK to frame me and get me mislynched? NJs argument ONLY makes sense is he is scum and knows the MOD decided to rule it as either/or and not both.

[Kthxbye]

Kthx - 4-shot fruit vendor

Garmr - claimed Masons
DS - claimed Masons

Nero - Hood member
TDA - Hood member

NJ
DGB

With 7 alive, it's at worse 5v2 and at best 6v1.

re: Mason claim

Let's go with the worst case scenario. If we don't lynch Garmr or DS and they are scum pulling a gambit, tomorrow would be 3v2 which is still winable. If Garmr and DS are town Mason's, we don't lynch either today, and we don't hit scum today, tomorrow would still be a 3v2. If we hit scum today it confirms Garmr and DS as mason's. That's a risk I'll take 100% of the time since not lynching Garmr or DS today isn't an auto loss in the worst case scenario. They are off the table for lynch candidates today. Shit shouldn't even be brought up again today unless it's to distract from finding scum from the remaining 4 candidates. If they are scum, it will be fairly obvious.
----------------------------------------

re: NJ

I said NJ dropped knowledge only scum would have. I made it pretty obvious that I saw it as a scum slip.
Now, the NK. Why did scum not target me to try and frame NJ if he's town or why didn't NJ target me to get one less person to push his lynch today? Is NJ so maniacal as scum that he targeted RM last night to make my thoughts go where they are now? I don't think so. I think I'm alive and NJ is alive because scum thought we'd both go after each other after what went down yesterday. My gut is pretty sold on this. Prolly cuz NJ hasn't posted yet and I was able to take an objective look at things. I may be over thinking this but, well, that's what this game is all about I guess.
----------------------------------------

re: DGB

If there are 2 scum left, the mason's are mason's, and I'm right about why NJ and I are alive, this almost HAS to be one of the remaining scum. If there is only 1 scum left, and the previous is still true, DGB is less likely (imo) but still a likely candidate.
----------------------------------------

re: the Hood

Why was the hood left alone by scum? That is what I'm asking myself. The answers are both WIFOM. If there are 2 scum left, scum is almost confirmed to be in the hood I think. If there is only 1 scum left, then it can go either way. Scum could be hiding in the remaining hood or scum could be leaving the hood alone so that we lynch it.
----------------------------------------

My lynch candidates today are:
DGB
Nero
TDA

In no particular order at this time.

[Kthxbye]

Actually now i think about it why are people calling naked jogger town.

See my thoughts re: NJ in p2800. Specifically, "I think I'm alive and NJ is alive because scum thought we'd both go after each other after what went down yesterday."

Your thoughts? It's WIFOM, but its the WIFOM that makes more sense than scum-NJ leaving me alive today unless scum-NJ thought he would have enough pull to get me lynched.

[Kthxbye]

I'm going with Garmr and DS are town for these.

killapenwin

(LYNCH):

d3x

, NakedJogger,

Garmr

,

dragonspawn

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Peacebringer

, Dripping Goofball,

randomidget

,

Killapenwin

,

Ika

Ika

(LYNCH): TheDudeAbides,

randomidget

, Dripping Goofball,

TellTaleHeart

,

Ika

,

I Am Innocent

,

Kthxbye

,

dragonspawn

, Nero Cain

Albert B. Rampage

(LYNCH): Dripping Goofball, Nero Cain, TheDudeAbides,

I Am Innocent

, NakedJogger,

Kthxbye

,

Peacebringer

,

randomidget

StrangerCoug

(LYNCH): Nero Cain, TheDudeAbides,

Peacebringer

,

randomidget

,

I Am Innocent

, Dripping Goofball,

dragonspawn

Flubbernugget

(LYNCH): Nero Cain,

Peacebringer

,

Kthxbye

, TheDudeAbides,

Garmr

,

d3x

d3x

(LYNCH):

randomidget

, Dripping Goofball, TheDudeAbides, NakedJogger, Nero Cain


Yeah, I think there HAS to be scum in the hood. DGB, Nero, or TDA are the only options for any bussing that went on aside from Ika bussing himself. If DGB isn't scum, then one of (or both of, but that would be fucked up imo) Nero/TDA are scum.

[Kthxbye]

That or I'm wrong and Garmr/DS are scum playing a gambit which would also make sense as it's either/or on the scum lynches.

Fuck. This is hard.

Which one of you fucking groups has/is scum? huh? WHICH FUCKING ONE OF YOU?!

[Kthxbye]

I'm leaning taking d3x's advice and sweeping the hood.

VOTE: TDA

[Kthxbye]

This is with Garmr/DS being scum and the neighborhood being both town:

killapenwin

(LYNCH):

d3x

, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Peacebringer

, Dripping Goofball,

randomidget

,

Killapenwin

,

Ika

Ika

(LYNCH):

TheDudeAbides

,

randomidget

, Dripping Goofball,

TellTaleHeart

,

Ika

,

I Am Innocent

,

Kthxbye

, dragonspawn,

Nero Cain

Albert B. Rampage

(LYNCH): Dripping Goofball,

Nero Cain

,

TheDudeAbides

,

I Am Innocent

, NakedJogger,

Kthxbye

,

Peacebringer

,

randomidget

StrangerCoug

(LYNCH):

Nero Cain

,

TheDudeAbides

,

Peacebringer

,

randomidget

,

I Am Innocent

, Dripping Goofball, dragonspawn

Flubbernugget

(LYNCH):

Nero Cain

,

Peacebringer

,

Kthxbye

,

TheDudeAbides

, Garmr,

d3x

d3x

(LYNCH):

randomidget

, Dripping Goofball,

TheDudeAbides

, NakedJogger,

Nero Cain

If Garmr/DS are scum, the d3x and ABR lynches make no sense as there is no way there are 3 scum left and those wagons were all town.

[Kthxbye]

MOD: V/LA through 19 March

[Kthxbye]

So....my busy week is over and...apparently I didn't miss much here.

TDA omgus votes me. expected.
NJ and DGB vote each other. expected.

So, after thinking about this a bit, here are my pretty much final thoughts for this day barring some crazy claim:
-Garmr and DS are almost 100% town masons looking through TTH's ISO. TTH goes after DS hard and then all a sudden drops it the next day? With her filpping town even night rolecop, it just fits. Garmr/DS are off the table for me. If I'm somehow wrong, reading into things that aren't there, and misreading TTH....well....then a Garmr/DS scum-team pulling a gambit get the win from me.
-Logic straight up says if there is 1 scum left, one of Nero/TDA are scum in a 3 person neighborhood with town flipped d3x. I just don't buy into an all town hood. I think 1 has dooped the other.
-Logic also says that if there is 2 scum left, one of (prolly not both?) Nero/TDA are scum in a 3 person neighborhood with a town flipped d3x.
-Logic finally says that if there are 2 scum left and only 1 is in the hood (likely imo), the other would likely be outside the hood and thus one of DGB or NJ.

Final verdict for the day? Scum is logically hiding in the hood. Lynching either Nero or TDA is the smart and logical play which explains d3x's final words.

I like my vote.

[Kthxbye]

What, and there's not a good reason the neighborhood was left alone?

hint: the reason is scum is hiding in it.

[Kthxbye]

So you're going to lynch Nero tomorrow. LOL die now.

Yeah...I'm pretty sure the game ends with your death. If it's not over, your partner is more than likely in DGB or NJ.

You having zero question about Nero's alignment is not a town mindset. so...YOU die now

[Kthxbye]

*crickets*

[Kthxbye]

I still think there's scum in the hood and I still lean TDA. That "case" in p2904 was super flail.

I don't see neighbor's acting like mason's like this ever. It's a neighborhood in a large with a Mason's claim and this should breed paranoia. It breed enough to lynch d3x, who flipped town. Now there is no paranio between Nero/TDA? It set's off the scumdar. The scumdar should be listened to.

[Kthxbye]

I tend to think we have two scum with the difficulty we have of pulling a coalition together.

I tend to agree.